Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Kieran Bywater - From Professional Footballer to Financial Planner, Why he chose Financial Planning as a career.

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Kieran Bywater - From Professional Footballer to Financial Planner, Why he chose Financial Planning as a career. · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Kieran Bywater, who is an ex-professional football player, turned financial planner.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: He spent the bulk of his career at West Ham United, and we won't hold that against him.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: And he spent a bit of time also over in the USA playing football.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like many professional football players and professional sportsmen, his career didn't quite go the way that he hoped it would, and he found that he no longer had a contract with a professional club.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: At a crossroad, he had to make a decision as to what he was going to do with the rest of his life.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: And he chose financial planning.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: He went down the route of the St.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place Academy, passed its qualifications within nine months, and is now a partner at St.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to give back to the game that he loved by helping professional football players make the right financial decisions about their future, something that he feels is massively lacking in the game.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Hi Kieran, thanks for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: As per my introduction, ex-footballer turned financial planner.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um today, really, it's really about finding out about your journey from professional football into financial planning, and perhaps sort of telling us a little bit about the career of a footballer and where financial planning might well be missing, and just really your experience so far around financial planning and why really you think that's the career for you.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: As mentioned previously, the Financial Planner Live podcast is all about raising the profile of financial planning to get more people into the industry.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is a really big thing for financial planners.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: They love it when they come from rugby or football or golf because of the networking and all that kind of stuff and also the team mentality.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: But hopefully, you're going to give us a bit more insight into why that is and the realities, and it might hopefully inspire some ex-professional sportsmen, footballers, whatever, to take up a career in financial planning.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks very much for joining us today.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: How are you, mate?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really good, thanks.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, it's good to be here.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's been a bit of a strange year as for everyone at the minute, but um, yeah, it's been I'm I'm great, thanks.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Wicked, brilliant, fantastic.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so when you say like been a bit of a strange year, weird year so far, how have you dealt with the whole COVID situation and lockdown?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because you are very early on in your career, and something like this coming along must have knocked you for six, or were you?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's one of those one of those things totally take took everyone by surprise, you know.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was starting out at the beginning of this year, really, in my new career after qualifying last year.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I just took the approach as you know, you can take it one way or another, really.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can either just you know let it impact you, or you can look at solutions and look at how you're gonna move forward from that point, you know.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I chose the latter really, so I think I've tried to use social media as a strong platform for you know pushing my brand and what I'm trying to do within the space that I'm in, and it's paid off and obviously a slow burner at times on social media at the start, but the more um more recognition you get, the more testimonials and things like that, it's been it's been a good source of business, really.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's one of those things where you know you bring up the sporting background and overcoming challenges, but I that's all was my mindset.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was a it was a challenge, you know, and that's one of the reasons why I went into this industry and retrained last year is because I wanted to take the direction and you know the different challenges that come with that and you know growing your own business, really.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, fantastic.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely echo you with the social media side of it.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've massively like my social media game as well.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think kind of we had really no choice, did we?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: It was an opportunity to do that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if if if you, but I've just found it so powerful.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, I always like from a from running Recruit UK, I've always been quite heavily into to the marketing side of it, but I've never really focused on my own personal brand.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in the last three months, I've been like putting videos out all the time.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've built the Financial Panel Life podcast.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was always thinking to myself, well, how can I get out to as many people as possible?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And how can I get as many people knowing who I am without going without coming across as a bit of a dick or a bit of a salesperson?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was kind of like, yeah.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fine line, yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's a fine line, and I think I'm still treading it.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but someone said to me actually, like a personal brander said to me, Sam, you've got to be marmite.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: People have either got to like you or dislike you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can't go out there hoping that everybody's gonna like you because it's completely unrealistic, and then you're never really.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: You feel more watered down at that point, yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're just not being yourself.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, and I think when it comes to social media, it's authenticity, isn't it?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's about being your true, your true self.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And some people like you and some people don't, and that's cool, man, you know.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, hopefully the people that like you buy from you.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's all it comes down to, yeah.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So um, Kieran, um, yeah, let's talk a little bit about your career prior to being a financial planner.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I put out on social media that I was really keen to talk to ex-sporting professionals um because a lot of companies within financial planning seem to want ex-sporting professionals to join them.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I looked at your profile, you were tagged away in the comments, and your background is professional football.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um can you tell us a little bit about your your your your career as a professional footballer?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you know, it was a short-lasted one.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm only 24 years old now.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I left school at 16, if you like, take on the scholarship with a professional contract on top of that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I was loving life, really enjoyed it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was a very sort of dedicated player, mindset was all there, you know, diet, you name it, the model pro, if you like, was sort of my mentality and how I got to that point, really.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I continue to do that.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, it gets it got to a point of negotiating new contracts, etc.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was up on the verge of getting a new deal, all great, you know, families excited by it, and it's that next step onto sort of you know your second or third professional contract.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And quite a few things went on at the time at the club that I was at, and I ended up getting the the offer retracted as such, so I didn't get my my contract renewed at you know, as I was approaching 20 years old, so I was my contract ran out in the July-August time, and I was I was 20 in that September, and it was a bit of a rabbit in the headlights, if you like.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was a bit of a shock to me.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't been out of the team and you know, everything was going great in my eyes, you know.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was building my career and you know, it was my identity as a footballer that I've been known as from you know eight, nine years of age, where you've gone through the ranks and all of a sudden overnight you've got to you've got to show yourself again.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up going on I did have quite a few clubs, you know, interestingly at the time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Went on a few trials at you know, some of the bigger Premier League clubs were there under 23s, and you know, it was a difficult period for myself.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd had quite a few things off the field um as I was growing up as a teenager that I dealt with my problems through football.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was my my getaway really, it was my driving force for for being successful, if you like.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when football became the issue where it never had been in my life, I I really struggled it almost up, you know, opened up those old wounds.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it was uh it was a very difficult time.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was it was a it was a very difficult time, you know.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Emotionally, I struggled.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it is it's self-pity you get in as such as well.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when I was on the trial games, I'm like, you know, I was captain of a team at this level, you know, six six weeks ago, you know, now I'm having to prove myself to again and again and again.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it just wore me down really mentally and struggled off the pitch and had to move back up from London to my family home when you've been living away for a long period of time.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's difficult.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I hadn't had many school friends around the area where my parents was because I was away most of my childhood playing playing down in London.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a it was a really difficult period for me, but um that's sort of how my journey ended playing at um the club I was at over in England, and then um I was playing sort of the lower leagues and I just sort of had a bit of a breakdown, if you like, on on the pitch, I just completely broke down, um, you know, just had enough and I ended up a few weeks later deciding to go to America and uh just it was almost it wasn't quite running away, if you like, but it was um just what I needed.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I needed a complete fresh start and you know I just didn't see me being in the lower leagues in England and scrapping there and potentially having a part-time job or just ending up in the leagues and you're not you know, that dream of being a footballer, that's not what it looked like for me.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I wasn't gonna play in the the top couple of leagues, it just wasn't gonna be for me.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I quite I realised that quite quickly um through the style of player I was and the opportunities I was getting.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so I just went out to America, I was had an eye on business and started studying business over there.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then yeah, there was another bit of a whirlwind over there as well, which is why I ended up back here 18 months ago.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you want me to go into a bit more detail about that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's that's that's cool.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Then let me just sort of sort of ask you some questions all around that, then if that's if that's all right with you.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you in the UK then you you know you were you were a you were a youth player then when you first got into West Ham, is that right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you I signed on, you know, the the youth age at 16 and then my professional contract on from there.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I was you know a young professional for a few years there.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: So when you join as a youth at 16, and you mentioned now you sign up and you go onto a contract, are you then you're contracted to only play for West Ham?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they what do they do?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do they pay you a salary at that age?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so at that at that age it's you know, you you step onto your scholarship, so you can't sign professional terms until you're 17 in the earliest instance.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the time you do scholarships and then you go professional at 18 and such, and that's sort of what happened with me.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, you're excited by the four four-year period that I had sort of lined up.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and you know, when you're leaving school, it's great, it's all what you dreamt of.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I was was always positive for me because I was never one that was waiting for contracts or things to get renewed when I was a youth player because it was just already there, wasn't even thought about because I was just moving in the right direction, really.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So when it did I did get the news and you know, contract wasn't there anymore, it was just a bit of a you know surprise.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was no no feedback with it at all, really.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like you're not in the manager's plans, that's it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would have been there for 10 years and I had you know, I had no support from them at all at the time when I left, you know, and I ended up uh coming up to Manchester at the time and I trained at Man United for a month with the old reserve manager there.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they probably they put me in touch with more clubs of to give me opportunities when they didn't offer me a contract than my than my original employees did, you know, and I've been there for 10 years, so it's uh one of those where you you you learn quite early, and that's probably different things like that of you know are gonna help me with the future of my own business, I think.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were when you were younger then, a lot younger, and you were playing football.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: I played a lot of football when I was younger.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sit here and tell you I could have played for England.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think my dad said that once.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: It was the most embarrassing thing I ever heard.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: But um, when did you actually when did you actually know that you were good enough to have a career in to actually have a career in it?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: What age were you and how did it come about?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really interested in that.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you it's a good question, really, because you don't really think about it at the time, you know, you just enjoy and play.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'd probably say when I was about 13, it became a bit more serious for me.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was thinking, you know, the the stuff I was getting who I was speaking to, how the club was acting with me.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I lost a close friend when I was a young teenager as well, my probably my best friend, which was a real driving force for me at that time, where you know, as you're getting older, people are we I just sacrificed everything, you know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was literally it, no, no going out, no anything.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was just football, football, football, focused on that because it's what I I loved and what I was good at.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's when it became a bit more serious from that age, and you know, it's quite difficult for people to understand, you know, it's where you know, CP young players get opportunities now.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: When I see, I think, you know, people just see, oh, they've been training for a year or two now.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's been they've been sacrificing from them and their families from the age of eight, nine, ten, and you know, they're getting some reward at the end of it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: I know there's hundreds of players that aren't, or you know, there's certain types of rewards, and then there's obviously you're gonna have some have careers in the games, but not to the extent of the the Premier League players and the top championship players.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, it that reward is just I uh you know, people can disagree, but I think it's there through like a 10-year period.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's like anyone in business, you know, people see oh it's done really well, it's an overnight success.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, it's it's not, it's been a long time and there's a lot of difficult bits on the road.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean I started seeing that as I was a teenager and really became a bit more serious about yeah, I can have a career here, and then I had no other vision of anything else, you know.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was it, that was me.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have a career in the game.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And were you surrounded by people?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously acknowledging your fact that your friend died as well there, which then obviously had an impact on your life.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it sounds like to me, like assumptions that you threw yourself into the sport as a kind of almost a bit of a coping mechanism there for you as well, gave you some focus, as you mentioned.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously sad to hear that.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty well.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think obviously it affects you quite a lot of that age, and um you know it does how old were you?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: 13 then were you?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: 13, yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like on the week of my birthday.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was 13, so that takes quite a lot of impact.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, a lot of people don't understand it at the time or don't see these emotional problems when you're growing up, but I didn't really have any because I was just so focused on football and my outward, you know, how I played and was through, you know, that was probably my emotional release, if you like.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: When I look back at it, I didn't think at the time, I just I did things for him, you know.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: If I celebrated when I scored and things like that, but it was just purely, you know, this is it, this is what I'm doing.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't this it's a dog eat dog environment, it causes you anyway, football.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when I had that, it was just yeah, it was just fully focused on that.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: It helps you achieve that that vision and that that focus.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: So when you say because yeah, and you actually raise a good, really good point there.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, some of these guys are getting into football at such a young age, they're getting picked up by scouts at such a young age.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the expectation that is then upon their shoulders to perform.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I always remember playing football and having the mums and the dads on the side of the you know, the pitch, some of the things they would say or speak, or how they how they would sort of berate their child or whatever, or another kid.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: And these are like children, aren't they?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, playing playing football.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Did you find that the pressure upon you at that young age to perform to this professional level was really was it, you know, some people I could imagine will crumble under that pressure.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't a massive fan of it.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was the guy who would turn around and say, up yours to the person who said I wasn't very good at that, you know.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, dare you speak to me like that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: But some people just block it out and ignore it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that pressure can sometimes destroy some younger players or you know, very early on?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mentioned you don't have much of a childhood because you're just flat out playing football.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like my childhood was like that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: But actually, really, you know, some people must be quite a struggle.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it is, you know, it's a sacrifice that you know it seems like you have to make at the time.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I never felt any pressure when I was when I was playing growing up through the ranks, you know.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was just I love playing football and I was dedicated to that.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I was one of those that thrived under the pressure.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I I liked that, you know, I I did at the time when I was a young player, and when I was got on to being a professional, it was something that I really enjoyed, you know, like fully focused, you know, I can do this, this is what I want to be doing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, but when I look back at it, probably yeah, there's there's some young lads you know that are thrusted in that that that do struggle with it and find it pressured, you know, being in that environment and they're not quite the personalities.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's where you know the transition into different workspaces can needs to be looked at earlier as well with players, you know, sort of that age from you know 16 onwards.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's that you have to be tunnel visioned, you know.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still tunnel visioned with what I do now, that's what I want to do and what I want to achieve.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's almost, you know, if there is players that aren't gonna have futures, then you need to start picking up on what their attributes are because that's what it seems like, you know, if you fail as a footballer and that's your identity growing up, and that's that was what I struggled with the most when I left well when I called it a day sort of at 22 um when I was playing.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was just 22, 23.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was just I had that was my identity, you know.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: People would be asking about you, you know.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: You go to family dues or you go to see old friends.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: They wouldn't ask how you were first, it would be how's the football?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how's that how's the game last week?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it wouldn't be with other family members where they go, Oh, how was your job this week?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, doing whatever you do, they wouldn't go that way.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: But how are you?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: How's everyone?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it would be because it does become a job at some point, you know, when you left school, etc.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was a job.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: You can say what you like about it's your passion, but it still is what you do.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: You don't you just want to talk to people when you're when you're done, you don't want to hear, you know, how was work every time, you know.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: As a young person, that's quite difficult.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, have you found the same happens because as as a business owner, people people are like with me, house business, you know, they always say house business, and it's just like can we talk about something else?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: But um, do you find have you found that since you've become a financial planner running your own business?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think uh I think people just go, yeah, they go, how's business doing?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: How's that?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like now they do ask me more how I am, etc., than they did when I was playing.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: That contrast is still is still there, you know, because people get excited about football, you know, that's that's that's the difference, and they just want to hear about it because they're not involved in it, not many people are um in playing, etc.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's uh it's it's for me now it's quite nice not to have that, you know.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that uh I quite like.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were playing football then, also and I I've recently spoke to a basketball, um, a professional basketball player who um he was like the number one basketball player in the UK and went to America.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now we were talking about the state of the UK when it comes to professional sports, especially football, because I mean, again, some guys can be picked up at the age of eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, whatever.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's uh Raroney was like 16, wasn't he, when he was playing?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in like first team.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: He was young, that young team.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And like in the UK, there isn't any kind of um education that goes along that runs alongside like professional sport that I'm aware of.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: It certainly isn't in football.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like when he went when he went to the States, like he had to he got a scholarship, so his parents like couldn't afford the scholarship.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: He got out to America and they paid for like five years for like 30 grand a year to do the scholarship, yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what yeah, and then played college basketball, did all of that, and then got to the stage where he was hopefully going to get like picked for the NBA and he wasn't tall enough.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: But he had this, you know, this he had this education piece to fall back on, although he's kind of came back to the UK, did some basketball and stuff.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: He still had this education piece.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think yeah, that's uh yeah, that's something.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I went to the States to do the same thing, you see.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I decided to call it there at West Ham.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I went I was 20, 21, I went over to America to study business and play.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it wasn't about as much about the football because I was just I was almost done with it at this point.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh yeah, sorry.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I went out to America when I was about 20 and um had an eye on business and I had to get away.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't see the low elite here, and having that education was something that I always look at, and my parents sort of said, Oh, right, if you're gonna do something, do that.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I got paid everything paid for.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we won the national championship, etc.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I started enjoying my football again.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I started really, you know, just enjoying playing, and I thought, oh, you know what, I'll probably owe it to myself to just have one more stab at it if you like.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I spoke to my coach at the time and talked about going to one of the biggest universities to help me get in the draft, pretty much.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I spoke to quite some of the top universities out there, and I was moving to uh a place called Clemson University in South Carolina.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, anyway, long story short, um, there's a lot of regulations and rules out there about your time as a professional and stuff like that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd been banned for six months when I first went out there, which for me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was fine because I was studying, I needed to get back into things like that and just enjoy myself out there.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to move, and the documentary that I was on in No Hunger in Paradise came out over here on BT Sport and was quite a big hit at the time with uh Mike Calvin.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um a few months later I was going to transfer to this university and um great business school, which was great for me for if I finished playing in a year, which was it then, and then also they can help you get in the draft, great facilities, you know, just enjoy playing for whether it was a last year, then then fantastic, and just that's that's it, your last year.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that I was just it was so appealing to me, you know, had ever ticked every box, new challenge, etc.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um anyway, I've gone to probably about a week or two before I was gonna fly down to South Carolina.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: They come up on the website that I've been banned from competing out there in the university system.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously I was a bit confused by it all.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Long story short, there'd been a complaint from an opposition manager about my me playing out there, the one that we beat in the national final, made an official complaint, and they said a few words in a matchup from two or three years ago when they're filling out a form.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So um ended up getting sports lawyers involved.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I got voted against three to two on the final panel.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that pretty much meant I couldn't compete, so therefore I couldn't get my scholarship for the universities.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I was literally in between the two where I was at, sort of they were more concerned about their national title not being you know removed from them for fielding an eligible player, and where I was going had their hands tied because I wasn't their player or their their their student.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to come back to England a year and a half before I finished my degree.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was 23 at that point, so about 18 months ago, landed at my parents' house.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, 23, career done now playing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was just after obviously all the two setbacks with it and no degree and no qualifications, I had, you know, just my GCSEs at the time.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a real hard time for me, you know, it was a struggle where I just yeah, I couldn't deal with it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had a bit of a really hard time with it, and I just had to, you know, suck it up and I had to look at things from you know, step back and sort of reevaluate.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um my my parents helped me out a lot and they just said, well, you know, it's time to to really if you want to be successful and achieve again, you've got to find something that you're passionate about and you know, you've got to push yourself again.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, I couldn't I never had the makeup to at this point to go, right, I'm gonna work the nine till five.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: For me personally, I couldn't have you know someone sort of over me all the time telling me what to do.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had to take the reins of my my own life and the direction because it had been controlled by people for so long.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and it sort of taught me that I wanted to do something where I can help people as well, you know, not be in a position that I got into at that point, you know, I'd whittled down my savings from when I was playing.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and yeah, I just had to look at new career paths really.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, what it absolutely tells me, your your experience of working in football, that it's very unpredictable.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, being a footballer, you know, we sit back and we think, look at how they're out there having a kick about and and you know, and earning all their money and all of that.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And what people don't really see is that struggle and that, you know, moving around contracts.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, contracts are a difficult thing, aren't they?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're you're signing with somebody for what, a year or whatever, or two years, yeah, two years, depending upon how long that contract is.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: So not only that, but you've got the added pressure of everyone around you and other players coming along, and you know, that in its own right is a can be a motivator, but it's also an external pressure at such a young age, at such a high performance high standard to have to deal with.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, it's a tough, you know, being a professional sports person is a is tough.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know what the numbers are, but not everybody makes it, even if you get into your West Ham and sign for West Ham or I think, yeah, your spot, and I think um on that documentary, Michael Calvin, the author, mentioned it actually.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think to sign a professional contract at a Premier League club, so something I did is like a 0.01% chance of doing, you know, and I was part of that percent, that 0.01, and I've not got a career in the game like two or three years later, and that's just what it is.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I speak to friends every day, and they're you know, they're in between contracts now, some of them, and some clients are all concerned about what's what's next, and they have that constantly.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And where people say, Oh, what's tougher, you know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I studied in the States at university, and I look at different people's mentalities when I've come into the workplace, and sports tough, sports really tough, you know.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: I see that some of them go through mentally, and they see you know, some of them will be rewarded with good contracts, etc.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, but it is tough, you know, to to make a career in it, and it that's sort of that's why I think you know, we spoke about before where so many athletes that can step into new careers, I'm sure and be successful.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So okay, great.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you got into football, boy, you know, boyhood dream, put all your focus into it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to the percentage of people that actually get to play for a decent team.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: You were that person, you've got the contract.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's achievements in its own right.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't go the way it was hoping to go.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: You went through lots of difficulties, lots of stresses, and lots of strains.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: You probably learned a huge amount about the industry as you went through it, you know.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, agents, for example, probably, you know, difficult to deal with different types of agents, negotiating contracts, people having the best interest at heart.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: You went through your own mental health uh problems by the sounds of it, whilst whilst you whilst you were playing football.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um you then, as you've come out of that and you've decided to hang up your boots, pardon the pun.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's true.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I just didn't want to play it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you literally hung up your boots at the age of 23, did you?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: 23, yeah.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I hadn't so when I came back from the States and played there, you know, I had a few opportunities to look, oh, do you really want to keep playing?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, I don't I don't want to do it at a lower level, like non-league, how some of them do it and try and work their ways back up.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: It just wasn't for me personally, you know, and people can look at that as was one way or the other, but I just felt like I had more to offer as a person um and as an individual.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I did since then I've not touched the ball since I called it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even like five aside or anything, you know, I've not played at all.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And no, I could people say, Oh, you could have, you know, played on Saturday on earned a bit of money each week.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just said, Well, for me, it was I wanted to be the like a professional player, you know, I wanted to train every day and get better and improve and play in front of people, etc.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: For so for me, that that's not I wanted to do, you know, it gone that that boyhood sort of just fun of it has gone has gone, and I wanted to focus on something else, you know.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to find something, like I said, when people ask me now, do I miss football?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, I miss the process and everything of getting better to achieve what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, some people find it hard to understand that, but I've taken that mentality now into what I do, you know.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, let's talk about that then, because you obviously got a football career there, you've learned a lot about football and you've learned a lot about the structure.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: You've been a player yourself, you understand uh the network itself as uh the football community, how it all works.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So huge amount of um experience that is definitely 100% transferable, let alone all the skills that go with being a footballer, which we're gonna which we're gonna touch on because I want to learn more about that and really are they transferable?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, as a recruitment company, it's always been like, Do you do any sports, put it on your TV because it looks good?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, in what way does it really look good?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd love to understand that professional element and see where where that sits.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, your background, your experience of always fab.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you chose then, um, well, you decided to hang up your boots, and at that point you were thinking, right, I want to do something myself, I want to do something for me.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to play football anymore, I want to get into a brand new profession.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what was your next step?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: How did it all happen?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't really a step, you know.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's quite that's that's where it's at.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um the reality was, you know, I went back to my parents.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: I had well, my closest friend that I went to school with, he's a pilot out in Berlin, so I wasn't around.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: All my other friends were playing for different clubs around the country because they're all players still, and then my other close friend from school, he was traveling as you do in your early 20s, you know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it was very I was isolated, you know, that's what it was at.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was literally down to you now.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we can you can speak to people, look at opportunities, but you've got to see what you wanted to do.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, bottom line of it, whilst I was sort of looking at what I wanted to do, I just went and knocked a friend's engineering company just in local to me, and I said, Well, I'm looking at different options, I need just a job to get me out, just for my mental health more than anything.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just about getting a bit of money each month, it was purely just give me something to get me out, like to and he just looked at me like the director, he'd obviously known me from when I was a kid growing up playing, and he was just like, sure, like, because I you're not skilled, you're gonna you're gonna just you're gonna do something that's that's that's crap pretty much, you know.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like November October, November time, and I just literally went lifting metal for him for like it's from you know eight, nine in the morning till five, six at night, you know, and minus temperatures at times, and it was it was brutal, you know.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: From three years before I was playing, I played Old Trafford, and then you've gone to that, it's just a huge reality check of you know, you can have all that, but this is where you're at now, this is where you need to get yourself out of.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was speaking to a number of people at the time through a few connections, etc.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I managed to I spoke to someone at St James's place so that I knew sort of from previous experience, and they were like, right, well, you've got the option of London or Manchester, come up and have a chat.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just thinking, this is for me, and I've not worn a suit apart from an awards night before, and things like that.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, You've got to come in a suit, etc.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: And as you can see, I'm not in a suit.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I've not quite uh report to that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, anyway, so long story short, they spoke to me about sort of the opportunities and the resilience needed and just how you were.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was reading through it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'd spoke to a few family friends that had been working at the bank and stuff.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: My uncle had worked at a bank for years, and you know, just like it's a good opportunity, you know, for to retrain, they'll put you through it, but there was no guarantees, you know.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Had to get a business plan together, had to go through the interview process, and I was still working, so I was literally getting the train up to Manchester working like all the time.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was flexible because of where I'd gone to get the get the job for a couple of months.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just stop you there.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: So you were still working whilst you were going through the St.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place Academy?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, so just the interview process at the start.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I was working, and obviously you have to get your R01 at the time before you get on to like the interview process.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I was studying for that in the evening.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I was literally working, you know, uh in the day, just slogging for a couple of months and studying at night and repeating, you know.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was just studying until like 12-1 in the morning, and I had no understanding of any of it, you know.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'd not picked a book up properly since I was 15, you know, and that's just where it was, you know.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to do it, so that's what I had my mind on it now.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I wanted to do.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: I made the decision and I'm gonna do it.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, I managed to get through the interview process, and they they really liked me at the academy, and and they they took me on, and so I'd be starting in a new year, so I obviously just sat that job in.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so you okay, but so you did the academy at the start of last year, yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: So during that interview process, so just just so our listeners understand how that academy worked then, you had to to go through the St.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place Academy, you'd had to have done your R01 off your own back.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you do the R01 after you've uh you know, you've finished the interview process, you and then you do all the others, you know, you do the RO2, three, four, five, etc., over like a six, nine month period.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for me it was it was difficult, you know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I found it hard, you know.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had to where other people have done exams before from professional backgrounds, I was every page I turned was a new, completely new to me.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was it was really difficult, and you know, I failed a few exams.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's no doubt about it, I I did, you know, and I just knew I had to put more hours and more time working at it.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they questioned I was like, Are you gonna be okay for it?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Listen, I want to do it, I will do it, if you can give me the time.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they did, they gave me that time because they they believed in me here, which was great to hear again, have people believe in you.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, I just was sometimes I was you know there six, seven in the morning before we started our day of you know practical learning, and because I was behind on the exam, and but like I said, you know, it is just purely I had my mind to it, that's what I wanted to do, and I I really didn't care whether I was the first to pass it or the last.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was just this is what I'm gonna do, you know.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna get through it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you might be in, I'm again making assumptions here, but are you in are you a naturally academic person or not?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um me, yeah.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was never I never struggled at school.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to school obviously like two, three days a week when I was from 13 to 16.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I got A's and B's in all my GCSEs, etc.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was never I never struggled academically um at at all, really, but you know, it was some the different level of academics from what I'd parked, you know, five, six, seven years before, whatever it was.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it was uh it was totally new to me.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, you know, I managed to get through it and and learning all the time still as you do, you know.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: So when you went through those qualifications then, the ROs, um through the academy, what sort of support were you well, you know?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you've done the academy through St.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: So anybody's listening, you know, Kieran's part of St went through the St.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place Academy, is now working for a partner practice of St.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's it.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So just give our listeners an overview of if someone's listening to this now, perhaps they're coming from a sporting background, perhaps they're you know thinking about their first step into financial advice or transferring from another career.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: What was it you know, what is that academy actually like and what should they expect?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's it's a lot of classroom-based stuff.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're with about 15 other people that have been, you know, accepted on through and they've wheeled it down through X amount.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you have sort of a manager at the time that helps you through with exams, any extra support you need, you know, they support you through all the exams.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have, you know, all you go through pretty much page to page in the classroom, learning all the different details about you know whether it's tax or investments, etc.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and then pretty much you learn the practical side of the job, you know, the client facing stuff at the back end of the course, and you know, you do role plays, etc.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you they try and prepare you the best they can.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, as we all know, it's it's a lot different when you when you step out into the field as such, but um it it helps prepare you that in different ways, and and for me it was it was getting the exams, and I yeah, I would have it been a different outcome, I think, if I hadn't had that support in the academy for what I was going through with the exams last year.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's what helped me personally.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I started my years ago the F FPC won.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I used to be a trainer for um Aviva, so I used to train out bonds, investment products, and yeah, all that type of stuff with a joint venture with the RBS.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like really, really difficult, like learning learning about all different taxes and legislation, and I'm not even doing it from an advice perspective to give advice, it's just trying to train people.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, it was like it was intense at the time.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: I had like tapes, so I'd like listened to tapes on the way to work and um trying to trying to soak it in.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't, I'm not a naturally academic person, you know.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: I I found it really, really, really hard.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if I was to myself, I always think like, and I always quite admire those people that do the, you know, they you know they're studying their qualifications whilst like perhaps doing the administration route, power planning route, and then becoming a financial advisor.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Or you've got this other route, which is like the academy, and I think I would need the academy, I would need to be surrounded by tutors, I would need to have people that can talk me through it, and and I can do a bit of my study and a bit of role playing.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'd have to be fully immersed in it to really get it, because otherwise I would find it hard to pick my book up and start doing it.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's exactly what I was like, and I spoke to you before just earlier in the pod, and I was just like, well, yeah, I'm I've I'm fully focused on one of those that's tunnel visioned, and you know, people talk about plan B's, etc.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just think you know, full it's just cliche, but fall forwards is why I think you know, you always learn from it, and rather than essentially having the plan B, I think just if you fail, if you're not failing, that you just I just don't think you're really pushing yourself enough.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I saw going through that last year.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: That right, this is for me because it's challenging me and it's pushing me.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said to you before, when I was looking at what I wanted to do, I wanted a challenge, I wanted to try and achieve again, and that's that's what uh just you know, people can search for different things of what satisfies them or their drive behind what they're doing, but for me it was purely I had learned quite quickly at a young age that I needed to be driven and find that replacement of I'm never gonna love something as much as I did football.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't think it's gonna be possible, but I needed something to replace that process and really give me other aspects of my life that I enjoy, you know.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, what was it then about financial planning that then made you think, right, okay, well, this is the career for me?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um helping the helping the players.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Helping the players, okay.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think I don't want to see lads being uh when they're transitioning or when things get really difficult like it did with me.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had financial pressures because I had been um I'd whittle down my savings when I was in America pretty much over that three years, and I don't want lads, whether they're 25, 28, 35, to not have anything to show for it or not at least have a platform to step in to give them that freedom of go, right?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to re-identify myself, I've got to change, have all these changes emotionally, I've got to look at re-qualifying or retraining, and that's difficult, you know, that's really difficult when she's been in that bubble of of sport, and you know, you've been lights and for different things, and people will forget about you.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanna that's where I knew for for me that that's my real driving force behind it to actually put others in a good position, you know, and for one day for them to turn around to me and say to say thanks, you know, that's my real driving force.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, I'm growing my business in different directions, but that's my my core, really.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, brilliant.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, you looked at financial planning, you understand you've got to get your head around what financial planning is.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you then you could see that connection between what you were doing as this new career and how that could transfer across into the prof into the professional football arena.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because you, based on your own personal experience of what you've been through, that lack of kind of perhaps mentorship around your future planning, uh, there was a there was a gap there.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: So when you left the game and you thought, I don't really want to go back to the game in the capacity of being a player, how else can I go back to the game or back to the back to the um the sport, if you like, um, and add value?
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah by putting yourself in the shoes of the individual who's then going through the process, whether or not they're starting out at 16 years old, perhaps got absolutely no idea about the realities of what is going to lie ahead of them.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe they've got mum and dad in the corner who might not even have a clue either.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Got an agent who just doesn't really give a crap, just probably looking to a lot of things.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: That last yeah, that they wants that one transfer.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you're just yeah, you're becoming that kind of real trusted um confident of of the individual, putting them at the heart of everything that you're doing and making sure that you're saying, Look, you know, you're gonna be a footballer, this is what your dream is, this is what you're gonna do.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: You've got a two-year contract, but what's gonna happen if that doesn't get and that's that's what it is as well.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just at the different ages, you know, there's different things to be planning for.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: The lads that are earning the very good money now, you know, that come across it's it's gonna end, you know, it's not like some professions where you're earning that amount for 30 years, let's say that's literally five, six years, let's make it last and give you what you want.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's just there, it's literally listening to them and understanding what they want to do and helping them with it.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going, right, let's not get this car, it's not that.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's purely what can we do to do this in the best way possible.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the type of advice that needs to be to be had with a lot of the players.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's look at that then.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, why you know why do you think a foot a professional footballer should have a relationship with a financial planner?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: Purely to look at different ways of growing for themselves, you know, investing in themselves, where you've been eight, nine, ten years of age and you've done so well to get to that point.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: You've invested in yourself, you've invested time, you've sacrificed, you've dieted, you've done everything right.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why not do everything right with your finances to plan every aspect of it, your retirement, because you've got two retirements, let's say, in your mid-30s, and then when you get later on in life, and let's try and spread that out rather than just live it now.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's obviously things you've got to enjoy now, and I understand that, but players need to have the right advice in their ear so that they don't come to the end of it and struggle mentally and struggle financially, and it impacts the other things in their life when football's gone.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want it to impact your your family life or your next career because you've got to work alongside studying or something like that, you know.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do the things to put yourself in the best position, whether that's at 25 that it comes to an end, 30, 35, whether it's injury or you know, you know, new contracts, but you can't control that.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's control your finances and put you in the best shape possible, really.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just why I think players need the advice.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: I would I probably understand this is actually pretty much exactly why they need to do it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Did you find that when you were playing football that you weren't, you know, you had an agent, I suspect.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: Did they introduce you to any financial planners?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Was there anything like that that was introduced?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, do you did they even talk did they even talk to you about your future planning or anything like that?
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, nothing, which is quite funny because um, I mean, I can't name clients' names, obviously, but so are my clients now that are playing, haven't had any financial advice, they've been pro for five, six years now, and they're with top agencies in the UK that of course it has what their services are wealth management financial services, but because they're not the biggest players, uh, you know, the Premier League players, or doesn't seem like they're as interested to give them that service, you know.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some of these lads are still earning very good money and they're playing championship league one and they're not getting advice to make that money last and start planning ahead.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I think there's there's a real gap in it where you know there are some agencies that do a very good job and full service on their players, but there's a lot of others that you know it's no surprise when I speak to lads that directly that they've not had any, and it's it's surprising that they haven't been spoken to about that.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side, it it doesn't surprise me.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, why do you think they haven't been spoken to about financial planning?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Why why do you think that is?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's a lack of confidence in financial planners, lack of com financial planners, not enough people looking at that niche or not enough experienced people?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the I think it's more to do with the the capabilities of some of the agents and the people around them to, you know, it's a very people around football is very take, take, take, you know, people want a piece of the pile whether it's, you know, it can be family members, it can be whoever, it can be girlfriends, etc.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, it's down to duty of care, you know, it's it's purely that, these young people and planning needs to be thought about first.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's it's you could talk about it all day, really, whereas, you know, I just feel like the players need to not only just take a bit of responsibility with them themselves, but to really make sure that they're looking at all that everything in their life's getting taken care of.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: So at the end of the day, they can focus on just playing football and that's all they they want to do.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: But then it's about having that trusted relationship with a financial advisor.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it another person that's just trying to get a piece of the pie, if you like, where there's you know, if you've been there and I'm building it myself, it's it's a different story because I understand it, I've been in your position.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's look at what we can do to help you, you know.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the planning is, it's purely to do with you and nobody else, you know.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: So trust is a big issue then, perhaps, especially if you start earning that big money that you're just a bit more dubious about who is putting their hands out asking for your business.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so trust is an issue.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's good because, like, again, it's that transferable skill set then from working, sorry, from being a professional sports person to coming out of it and moving into something like financial planning, where you know there's a gap within that sport around it, whether that be via the you know, the the the agent or the lack of knowledge from the uh being handed down from the football club or the actual players' um accountability for their own responsibility to look after their own finances, and perhaps lack of education around financial planning as a as a whole in general, because we know that that's an issue across the UK, regardless of what sport or anything you can play.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, we live in this instant gratification culture as well.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: We want things now, we want all the nice car and all of that.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I suspect when you're a 16-year-old, even more so now, you know, young lad or girl getting into professional football, you're thinking, well, where's all the birds and where's all the cars and where's all the and and all of that kind of thing?
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_02: You don't really give a crap about when you're gonna retire because it doesn't matter because when I retire, I'm gonna be a millionaire.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or yeah, yeah, that's literally what it is, but not spending it and getting taxed in certain ways, you know.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's just and you're not doing the right things for yourself and you're not making your money work for you.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what it is.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's right, you've earned this, you've worked hard to get to this point.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're you work on yourself day in, day out to get better.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why not work on your finances to help them get better?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a you know, I just think you've got to be I think it's great.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know why you couldn't understand that if you sat down and spoke about it, you know.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's yeah, I think it's I think it's great.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: Anything where you can go back into any industry that and that's about understanding your niche, you know, and and you and being moving from football and moving into financial planning, you've got to kind of in any business, especially where you're trying to build client relationships, regardless of what type of business it is, you've got to really go after a specific niche of and when you go into that niche, you do have to have an understanding of what they're thinking and what they're going through.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think your background of of of football going back into football is just going to be so beneficial.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we spoke about on the phone a couple of days ago.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's like 27,000 financial advisors out there at the moment, right?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: Looking at five to ten in the next five to ten year years, probably about 10,000 of them leaving.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now, nothing to do with age here, but eight percent of financial advisors are below the age of 30.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Majority of footballers are probably below the age of 30, right?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: So let's take you look at the amount of financial advisors that will be around.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say 17,000.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you're gonna have more add more get added to the industry every single year.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_02: What's the goddamn niche that is for you to actually get into get stuck into and start to work?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I think establish yourself as that expert.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think you're you're spawn, you know.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm 24 myself now, and there's you're not gonna find many advisors that are younger than myself and that have been in the industry, so that's why I feel like I have a real strength.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's about still building it in the right way and having the right opportunities to speak to some of the people, but I yeah, that's what I see for myself.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got another six years until I'm hitting 30 to even be part of that, so it's something that I can really utilize over the coming years and you know, to grow with those lads as well.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's when I sit down and speak to some of my clients now.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, I'm not go, I'm not exiting the business in a couple of years, I'm not going anywhere, I'm purely here for a long time.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm planning my life the same and going through the different steps, and I think that's that's huge for for our generation to have someone to move through it rather than just someone that's you know on the other side of it.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: If we look at professional sports as well and the training and discipline around um being a professional footballer, yeah, what part of that is transferable across to becoming a financial planner, do you think?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'd say the I'd say the resilience, that's massive.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think resilience in sport, you know, you look at it and you can have a bad game, but you've got to get up again on Monday and go again at it.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same with this.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can have a bad meeting, or someone says somebody you thought it was gonna go ahead with business doesn't, and you get a slap in the face.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I've learned straight away, you know, especially with the coronavirus at the start, you know, people pulled out some investments that I had lined up for me, and that was just like a reality check of right, that's what it's gonna be like, you know, this you're gonna get disappointments, but you're gonna have if you can keep going, whether it's good or bad, of the same mentality and the same vision, then that's definitely something that can transfer in.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And probably yeah, I'd say that's the biggest strength that you have as a exports person, and that that'd be the one that just stands out to me ahead of anything else, you know.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And is that something that you've noticed working in financial planning that resilience is a big part of the role, that you do need to have that pick yourself up mentality?
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, would you say that's something you've noticed straight away and is that why you've picked that out?
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say I've experienced it myself already.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, you know, where I've thought some meetings have gone wrong, they've pulled out, or you know, something that we didn't expect has happened and you're taken aback by it, and that's great.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it's you know, there are gonna be some days where you've just started out and you're not gonna be as busy as you would have liked, you know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: You have it, and that's that's the reality of it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: But only you can get it out, and I think that's where lads that have played or girls that have played sport can really go, actually, I'm fully responsible for this now.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you play, you I don't know, you've got an excuse, haven't you?
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my time stream was tight or pitch wasn't great, which didn't have a good game as a team, he scored an own goal, there's always a reason.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's it's down to you now.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can really take that.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think and there's a lot of people that I've I've played with have a great mentality, and if they can learn the skills and the communication, you're always communicating communicating in sport because you're part of a team.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think communication skills is a huge part of the role as well.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to talk to people, relate to different people, I think that's that's another transferable skill as well.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, when you're in the dressing room, I remember when we played, you know, there's lads from different types of backgrounds.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's communication, you know, being able being relatable with different types of people is is is really really key.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've people used to joke with me, like oh the posh, they think I'd be posh because I'm from outside of London, for example, you know, some of the lads because that's what it was.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, there's there's all that kind of things, and just yeah, I just I just really think that players have got a look outside of the box when they're looking for the next steps, and that financial planning is something where you know you can build your business, you can be very successful with it, you can help people, and it's just it fits, it can help replace that love that you had for football in a in a different, you know, different way.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you find as well?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was chatting to my personal trainer this morning, um, we're all about we're really all about at the moment um small manageable changes.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: So each day making a small change.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: So whether or not you're trying to get the best body you possibly can, I think again it goes back to that kind of instant gratification that you think you're gonna be absolutely spanking because somebody on on Instagram is kind of like on Instagram's been doing it for 15 minutes, like and you're like, right, I'm gonna go to the gym and I'm gonna do the 90-day challenge and I'm gonna change my body.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's like we're kind of like over time, I'm 38 now.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've tried all that, you know.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, bang it hard, go down, bang it hard, go down.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's only right in the last sort of year and a half where I've had a kid and everything that I've really kind of focused on each day creating these small good habits that are sort of small changes, or like let's say for example, instead of hitting the gym really hard, I'll do like 25 minutes of just just just exercising every day.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when I built that habit, then I built it up to an hour, then I then I did weights and then I did weights and running, and all of a sudden you're like just naturally getting better and better and better.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what I always had from sport as well.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've played a lot of sport.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_02: I always had that that that you just keep on it, don't you?
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: You keep going, you keep training, you keep working hard, and you know you're just going to continue to get better.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um one of the misconceptions of financial planning is like, well, I get the qualifications and I'm a financial planner, which is rather this is literally the you could I I find that quite uh quite hilarious, you know.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: When I was going for the academy and I I felt exams and I I knew for a fact people would have looked at it in whatever way they wanted to look at it, or you might not be capable enough to be an advisor, etc.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you leave the academy, and at the end of the day, you've all got the same qualifications, then it's about how you communicate, how you have all the other skills, your likability, trustworthiness, and that is it.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: You you've got to learn.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: One thing that I probably say the biggest thing I've learned about stepping into this role is when you're a footballer, you think, Oh, I'm gonna be the best, I'm better than him, you're gonna be better.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where I stepped into this role, and you know, the director I'm working with, and then I'm part of a a meeting pod meeting group, so we get in some of the other practices around Manchester and share ideas, etc.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: And they're better than me at the job.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's no doubt about it.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: They've got 15 years experience in finance or 20 years experience in finance.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: They've sat down in thousands of meetings.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Who what have I got to say to some of them?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to be a sponge and you've got to learn, and I think that's having that openness, even with clients, if there's something that props up and you're not quite sure, it's just being, you know, I'm not quite sure on that.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a few people and the experts to talk about.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I can leave that with me and I can get back to you, or little things like that.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's what I've learned from the other advisors as well.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then you just grow and build your knowledge, and one thing is you've just got to try and get better every day, like you said, there it's with sport, it's just constant.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I enjoy that, I enjoy going right okay.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know that, so I'm gonna speak to the director who's done it for eight years, had the whole practice for years, and learning from him because then you've got your own identity, but you're adding bits of knowledge, etc., which is only gonna be better for you and the client, which is yeah, to think that you're better than you are, or think you you're a finished article is just wrong, you know.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_02: Every day's a school day, isn't it?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, massively.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think always one of the biggest bits of advice that every financial planner gives me, anybody really, in throughout my career of setting up a recruitment company, especially for me as well, the way I learn is the way is to observe other people.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I like to observe other people, I like to listen to other people, I like to see how they do things and I'll look at what they're doing and I'll change it to adapt it to my style.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think again this conception and it's sometimes it can be a bit of a barrier, I think, financial planning the qualifications.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they're required and they're needed to be able to give financial advice.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it's a definite requirement.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, yeah.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_02: Big argument to push it towards charters.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do think there are so many people that are very, very good at the relationship side that get put off by the qualifications.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: If they just stick at it, which is why academy is coming up now are good, it it helps you get that qualification because the next part of it is completely different to what you learn from the football.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: The other part of it is the realities of life and being a footballer, being somebody who's worked in sport, being in that entertainment industry, the doors to to building relationships are already open for you.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that you've got to have that mentality of going, Well, where is it?
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: How do I do it?
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: How do I open these doors?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: And how do I build those relationships and add value?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: And those are skills that you have, but you also pick up from your peers, don't you?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um put it into place.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that technical knowledge as well.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you've got to improve that all the time.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of the industry.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to answer questions and understand everything because it'd just be totally wrong if you didn't concentrate on that side of things as well.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you said, it's just learning the whole becoming more rounded.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say something here about um financial planning and again the stereotype stereotypical financial planner being quite older, not being as um connected to the youth of today, yeah, and how they communicate and the marketing required to get hold of these types of people.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, um how have you in how have you as a younger man embraced things like Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn?
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: How are you using that to talk to your audience?
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Are you are you using it or are you not using it?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Are you being put off using it?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are they saying you shouldn't use it?
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: What's your view on social media to win clients?
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I think social media is the way forward for it, you know, with financial planning.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see many pages on on Instagram of it for myself.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was having a discussion last year when I was on the academy.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was had a mind to have a social media plan for when I left the the academy, and it was at St.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: James's place at that time, it was a big no-go, you know, a lot of the social media, LinkedIn only, but obviously the pandemic hits, and everyone's trying to be experts on it now.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: But have you slightly missed the boat?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, you've got to understand everything about it, the audience that you're connecting with, and that's where I saw it.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: I sat down and said I was 23 when I was going through last year, and I was just thinking, right, so let me write down my network here and who I could potentially speak to and how I could grow it.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And thinking, what's the point of me using LinkedIn here?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: I know that they already follow me on Instagram where I'm friends with them and can connect to it, etc.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so Instagram was the one that I jumped on straight away.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I got the you know, the accreditation that St.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place at the Times have social media, and then it kicked in this year where it was like, Oh, you can have Instagram, etc.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, great, because I've just just started mine anyway.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just one of those where it's right or wrong, people made a point, but it's just about connecting with the yours preferred network and having content out there yourself.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the things I do is through lockdown, because I only had a month before lockdown in the in the job, so it's been all from a distance.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got client testimonials via video, send in, post that where so people that are going onto my page will now see the types of people I'm working with as similar to them, and that's the sort of way that I've been trying to grow things really.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: And also, I suppose from a growth perspective, we talk a little bit about your um your future within financial planning.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: You mentioned earlier 24 years old.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in the next 10 years, you could amass some fantastic assets under management, have a wonderful business there.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you might then start to think about growing your business and hiring maybe some people yourself and having your own partner practice if you stayed at SJP or if or if you left, come and come and see me.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you left and said, Yeah, you come over, you know, you you you go and set up your own business.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: But what's going to be really useful again for you is if you're building that relationship with the audience, um, especially Instagram, because they're all going to be on Instagram, they're footballers for crying out loud, they're going to be on Instagram and TikTok or whatever.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, building those relationships and as their careers start to see maybe come to an end, so there's kind of a two-pronged attack for you, isn't there?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's the fact that you can look after them in respect of their financial planning, but you can also display and show them the power of what you're doing as a job choice, and that they then look at you and think, do you know what?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, if I when I quit football or when I stop football or if my football comes to an end, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go see Mr.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Bywater and join his join his firm of footballing financial planners.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a real area you should certainly consider, I think.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think when we spoke on the phone about it, it's something that I think can definitely benefit.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are you know, there are, I know for a fact there are practices that do a lot of work with players that have built it over the year, but I know some of those practices they aren't players themselves, they have maybe one player in it.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's solely, you know, different, you know, you've got different groups of people, younger generation, you've got the clients that you've got to establish, different routes that you've got to establish, and then you're helping people get a new career, it's another thing that would be fantastic.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's uh later down the line for myself, and I'm at the front end of it right now, but it's definitely something that I'll be thinking about, you know, as to to help people transition, and then you're just a completely different group of people that's you know ready for the niche that you've already got.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I think that's great.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as well as you know, if you were to have someone join your team who joined your business who played for Man United, then bang, you got a connection to Man United.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: If you've got someone come from Arsenal Arsenal, then you got a connection to Arsenal.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a great way to build that team and then sort of get into those different networks with different clubs.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think um there was a hockey um there's a there was a took foot, there was a hockey team that I was speaking to, um sorry, a hockey, a financial planning firm that have hockey players and they do exactly that.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: So they bring on a new hockey guy and then because they're kind of semi-pro, so they play hockey and financial advice, and they're just sort of it's a really good, it's really cool model.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, yeah, that's really cool.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I'd share that one with you.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it can work now, that's great.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll tell you, I'll write that down now.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, write it down.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all right, brilliant.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, great stuff.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_02: So um, listen, I I I think you know, we've got a good insight into your background, your career, the fact that you moved in financial planning, the sort of transferable skills, you know, it's definitely an industry that's beneficial for somebody coming from a professional background.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can move in it, you understand and you can empathize with the career of a footballer, you can definitely see the pitfalls, the things that are missing, and you can see the lack of trust perhaps.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've got that background, you've got that experience, and as a financial planner, then you can add value.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: And as you rightfully said, you wanted to leave the footballing career, but you wanted to continue to help.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, what you did, you step back into football, you got yourself qualified, and you become a financial planner, a confidence of these guys that are in the game that need somebody there, looking out for them as a financial coach, helping plan their life-centered financial planning, somebody you understand.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what you're doing.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what lots of people from the professional game can do.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of different professional sports can do exactly that.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: And the skill set required to be an advisor, you're still hungry, you're still feisty, you're still not sitting behind a desk with a suit on going, Oh, I'm I'm counting money.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's not the same.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a boring job, is it?
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a nerdy job, it's like you it and and it it's a relationship game.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: So you can be in your polo shirt going out and visiting financial, you know, visiting footballers, you know, it's it's just not stuffy.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what um that transferable skill set and everything like that, I think it's a good industry for guys like yourself to get into.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: So well done, mate.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think cracking, I reckon um you're gonna be an absolute winner.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you said you'd never play football, you said you'd never play football again, but I was thinking about, right?
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's recruiting here, like this club that play on the Sundays.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, um, I was thinking about doing a like a five-aside game, right?
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: SJP versus IF, you know, independent financial advisors.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: So you have all the SJP footballers against the independent world footballers, and I do the financial plan.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_01: I do know there are I do know a couple of other footballers at SJP, so I think we've got quite a good team.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be the youngest, but probably the most unfit now, but at this point.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, but who gets me on their side?
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: Who gets me on there?
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can ref you can wrap that one.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my mum, my mum was the first female referee in the Woodspring lead.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_02: So she loves her.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: She she was a we get her along, she's gears.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she you can be the liner then.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're asking yourself back.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be the water boy.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm definitely not playing by the sounds of it.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: All right, great stuff.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um listen, thank you so much for your time stake here, and I really appreciate that.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, thanks for sharing your journey and uh have an amazing rest of the week, mate.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh cheers, Sam.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: Really enjoyed it.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: Take care, nice one.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: Cheers, you too,