Latest / True Comfort / Did My Dad Die Without Jesus? - With Professor R. L. Solberg

Transcript

Did My Dad Die Without Jesus? - With Professor R. L. Solberg · True Comfort

• Teasi Cannon (00:01) I'm TC and I want to welcome you to true comfort where it's our desire to live out 2nd Corinthians chapter 1 verses 3 & 4 which assure us that we have a God who comforts us in all our afflictions and Encourage us to take the comfort that we've received and share it with others who need it And I also want to welcome my guests guest professor RL Solberg or known as Rob to me Rob Thank you so much for being here R. L. Solberg (00:29) Thanks for having me on, I'm excited. Teasi Cannon (00:31) Yeah, so I'm gonna read a little bit of your official bio here, just so I don't mess it up. So Professor Solberg is an author, apologist, and Christian thinker based in Nashville, Tennessee. He runs an apologetics and teaching ministry called the Biblical Roots Ministry, whose mission is to help the local church grow believers who are grounded in scripture, standing firm against false teachings and flourishing in Christ. I love that. ⁓ I also want to mention that I met you when you were teaching at Williamson College. I think my oldest daughter introduced us. ⁓ so, yeah, are you still teaching there? Yeah, I'm still on the faculty there. ⁓ Okay. Yeah, that's wonderful. But I just remember immediately when I met you just how, just what a great guy you are, just how relatable and... R. L. Solberg (01:09) Yeah, yeah she did. Yeah, I'm still on the faculty there, yep. It's adjunct, of course, but yeah. Teasi Cannon (01:25) ⁓ approachable and I think that is just so needed and welcome. ⁓ I also can't, I have to mention your latest book. ⁓ So the law, the Christ, the promise. I really, I'm gonna put links in the show notes on how to find you and your books, but this book, I think in my review, even to you personally and then on Amazon, I called it the cheesecake of apologetics books. R. L. Solberg (01:51) I know, my wife was cracking up when I told her that. Teasi Cannon (01:55) which if you don't like cheesecake, please disregard that because I don't want it to dissuade you from reading it. when I was reading it, I just kept on just grinning because it was such a pleasant and deep read. Like I just kept feeling just this, you know, sense of almost being there in the first century church listening to just sitting at the feet of. Paul and listening and learning and you do such a great job of weaving in the Context and the cultural context the biblical context and the apologetics Which so I highly recommend this book. I'm I was excited to hear that you are working on another one. Is that true? R. L. Solberg (02:38) Yes, we're actually finishing up a series of Hebrews on my YouTube channel and I'm starting in the next book I'm going to tackle apologetically is Ephesians. So, and thank you for your kind words and your encouragement. That really means a lot. Teasi Cannon (02:48) Okay, wonderful. I can't wait. Yeah, no, I'm I truly enjoy it and look forward to your your next book. But because you did such an excellent job helping readers like demonstrating modeling, sound biblical interpretive skills throughout this Bible study, I thought I would ask If you ended up running into somebody on an elevator and they said, yeah, I just bought a Bible. I've never read one before in my life. I'm gonna start reading it. And you had one minute on that elevator to tell this person while you're reading it, keep these things in mind. Basically what I'm asking you for is how to read the Bible in one minute. R. L. Solberg (03:32) Yeah, that's a brilliant question because it is very difficult, especially for me personally. I just tend to run down rabbit trails. So if I had a minute to share, ⁓ hermeneutically, I guess there would be two or three things come to mind right off the bat. Number one is that I would point out that Jesus is the point of the whole thing. So, you know, in a very loose way, you could say, write the name Jesus at the top of every page of your Bible because he's going to be in there somewhere. Teasi Cannon (03:42) I there would be. Hmm. R. L. Solberg (04:01) Number two, I would point out the fact that there's multiple genres. And so. As you go through the Bible when you're reading Psalms, it's poetic versus some of it is narrative history. Some of it is the biography Jesus in the Gospel. So just being aware, hey, when you start a new book, think about the genre that you're reading because that'll help you understand how literally do I take this? Are we having poetic flourishes? Are we talking about real world things because the Bible contains all of the above. Teasi Cannon (04:15) It's okay you can finish ⁓ R. L. Solberg (04:34) is it was written by different people for different purposes. that would be the third thing I would say. I don't know if my minutes run out yet. the third thing I would say is context, context, Teasi Cannon (04:42) here ⁓ R. L. Solberg (04:46) context. Because you need to first understand what the original author was writing to the original intended audience before you apply it to your own self and your own life. So that's kind what I would say. And it's hard to do that when it's just the Bible. A lot of folks will Teasi Cannon (04:46) Mm-hmm Yes. R. L. Solberg (05:03) I would recommend starting with the study Bible because they give you some of that, you know, at the beginnings of the chapters. But those are probably my three things. Teasi Cannon (05:06) Right. I love that. Yeah, I think I would say similar things. the thing that you started with was so... like life changing for me, which you would think it would be a no brainer, but when you said it's about Jesus. Honestly, think when I, many of the years that I was in love with Jesus, I mean, really passionately pursuing him, but my Bible reading time was me looking for me in it. You know, what is something about my life, something about my day, you know? And it's not that we can't apply it to our own lives, it's just that it's not R. L. Solberg (05:43) Right. Teasi Cannon (05:47) about me. I, so I mean, a lot of our pain, a lot of the situations we go through in life, I have noticed, or I'll just speak for myself, that a lot of the most gut wrenching seasons of my own life are linked somehow to faulty interpretive skills, you know, which have set up an expectation of the Christian life that wasn't actually biblical or... even worse, an expectation of God and how he's supposed to behave in my life that was faulty. And so, you know, the heartbreak is sort of exacerbated by approaching the Bible in a way that it's not meant to be approached. So I, yeah. R. L. Solberg (06:16) Yeah. account. Yeah, that's a really brilliant thing to say because there's a, like you said, the Bible's not about us. It wasn't written to us, but it is for us. So there are messages to understand and things we learn about God and Christ and ourselves. But approaching it with that right frame of mind is so important because you get off into these, you all these, I guess, prosperity gospel and those sorts of things, you know, your best life now and, you know, Teasi Cannon (06:41) right. and those sorts of things. You you have the best life now and, you know. R. L. Solberg (07:02) wealth and health and all these things. And the Bible speaks a lot about not only suffering and the fact that it's part of life, but how it has meaning, you know, and suffering with Christ and for Christ and those sorts of things. If we start to have this pie in the sky understanding of God and all things will work together for my good or other things that the Bible says, but we're kind of applying them out of context, that becomes, like you said, it sets up these false expectations. So, yeah, that's a great point. Teasi Cannon (07:03) Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ that becomes, like you said, it sets up these false expectations. So yeah, that's a great point. You know, it is God's revelation of himself and his relationship with us. And it can get complex at a seminary level, but it doesn't have to be intimidating. There are simple things that we can just, I mean, even I taught, I don't want to go on too much of a tangent, but I taught seventh grade language arts for years and I didn't know the word hermeneutics, but that's what I was actually teaching. Teaching how to interpret poetry, how to read a R. L. Solberg (07:41) Yeah, hey man. Teasi Cannon (07:57) nonfiction. You you put on, you use these different frameworks and it's no different with the Bible. I don't know why I would have thought those same skills don't apply when reading literature that God inspired, but you know it's not a magic eight ball or some you know, mystical menu book. It's a wonderful resource of... ⁓ R. L. Solberg (08:17) Yeah, beautiful literature too. Teasi Cannon (08:19) Beautiful literature. before we get into like the heart of the conversation, I did want to also just ask, I've been asking all of my guests just to share a little bit about what got you started studying ⁓ theology and apologetics and specifically your focus, which I appreciate because it's not always the focus, which you seem to kind of help listeners in your audience ⁓ understand the relevance and the significance and the beauty of the Old Testament and how it relates to the to our lives today, but what got you started on all of that? R. L. Solberg (08:53) Okay, that's, I'll try to give you the truncated version because you know, it's like I started out as a child. No. So what happened was I was raised sort of lukewarm Lutheran, I would call it. We went to church and, it wasn't a big part of our family life. And, but I went to a ⁓ Christian church camp and at 14, I accepted Christ. I realized I really did believe in him for myself. And, but then I had this really weird experience where ⁓ Teasi Cannon (08:55) Okay. Yeah. R. L. Solberg (09:22) After we all went forward, those of us who went forward to the altar call, they took us off to a cabin and said, hey, congratulations, welcome to the family, all that good stuff. And they started handing out this paperwork that said, hey, here's a list of all the secular music you might like. so mind you, this was, let's see, I was 14, so this would have been 1983. And they said, so Van Halen, Kiss. Teasi Cannon (09:27) They took us off to a cabin and said, hey, congratulations, welcome to the family, all that good stuff. And they started handing out this paperwork. OK. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (09:50) rush all these bands that I was liking and I was just getting into music at the time, you know, this is before I launched into my professional music career. ⁓ And so they said, if you like these secular bands, now that you're saved, you should instead listen to these other Christian bands. And so I had never heard of any of these bands on the Christian side. And I thought, ⁓ man, this is the 80s. So Christian music was nowhere near like it is today. But Teasi Cannon (10:06) So I had never heard of any these bands on the Christian side and I thought, oh man, this was the 80s so Christian music was nowhere near like it is today. Right, R. L. Solberg (10:18) So I think the Rez band was one of them. I can't remember all the names of the band. So I went out to my local record store, literally LP's records, and bought a couple. OK, fine. And I listened to them and I just went, no, that's not going to work for me. None of these guys are as good as Eddie Van Halen or whoever Teasi Cannon (10:18) no. So I think the Rez band was one of them. I can't remember all the names of the band. So I went out to my local record store, literally El P's records and bought a couple. Okay, fine. And I listened to it and I just went, no, that's not gonna work for me. None of these guys are as good as any band handle. R. L. Solberg (10:34) else I was liking at the time. So I ended up in my knuckleheaded 14-year-old mind deciding, if that was a criteria for following Christ, then maybe I'll put it on hold for a while. stating it very plainly. didn't think through it logically, but this was just what I ended up doing. So I ended up kind of walking away from my faith after that because I saw that sort of false standard. And I say false because I wish they would have told me how to read my Bible and given me the 60 second overview at that point. So I ended up walking away and living what I would call a practical atheist life, meaning I never abandoned faith in God and never rejected him. But I just had this Teasi Cannon (10:55) because I saw that sort of standard. And I say false because I wish they would have told me how to read my Bible and given me the 60 second overview at that point. So I ended up walking away and living what I would call a practical atheist life. Meaning I never abandoned faith in God and never rejected him, but I just had this... R. L. Solberg (11:17) You do your thing, I'll do my thing. I think you're kind of cool, but let's just, you know, go our own ways kind of thing. So I didn't think about God. didn't read my Bible. I didn't pray. I didn't go to church for many years from my late teens, my teens into my early twenties. And so when I finally came back, I met my wife. I was married fairly young at 22. And a few years later, our first child came in, in that process of getting married and thinking through marriage vows and why are we saying all these things? And then later, you know, a couple of years later, Teasi Cannon (11:17) You do your thing, I'll do my thing. I think you're kind of cool, but let's just go our own ways kind of thing. So I didn't think about God, I didn't read my Bible, I didn't pray, I didn't go to church for many years from my late teens, my teens into my early 20s. And so when I finally came back and met my wife, I was married fairly young at 22 and... few years later, our first child came in, in that process of getting married and thinking through marriage vows and why are we saying all these things? And then later, you know, a couple years later, daughter, first daughter arrived and like, what do I teach? How do I teach this beautiful young girl about right and wrong in life, you know, how to thrive? And so then the faith starts coming back and you start saying, well, I better revisit that. And so as I started leaning into it, I found I had all kinds of doubts, all kinds of... R. L. Solberg (11:47) daughter, first daughter arrives and like, what do I teach? How do I teach this beautiful young girl about right and wrong and life and you know how to thrive and, and so then the faith starts coming back and you start saying, well, I better revisit that. And so as I started leaning into it, I found I had all kinds of doubts, all kinds of what, Teasi Cannon (12:06) What does this mean and what does that mean? Like super questioning. so I didn't know it at the time that this apologetic. R. L. Solberg (12:06) what does this mean? And what does that mean? Like super questioning what was going on? And so I didn't know it at the time, but this apologetic ⁓ move, not a movement, but you know, sense inside of me, because I've always been sort of a contrarian as a thinker anyway, I think God planted all this, he knew all this was going to happen. But as I waded back into my faith, I did so with all kinds of questions. And so I started really getting into philosophy and apologetics and early church fathers and all these sort of nerdy things. And so for 20 something years, I pursued that as a hobby. And it was just my own, it was me kicking at Teasi Cannon (12:24) As I waded back into my faith, I did so with all kinds of questions. And so I started really getting into philosophy and apologetics and early church fathers and all these sort of nerdy things. And so for 20 something years, I pursued that as a hobby. And it was just my own. It was me kicking at the load, making sure I'm not believing a lie. So if I had a question about the Bible, I would go find an author that wrote about it. Just it was all internal. But R. L. Solberg (12:43) the load bearing walls of my faith, making sure I'm not believing a lie. So if I had a question about the Bible, I would go find an author that wrote about it. Just it was all internal. But as I was getting into my late forties and now I never went to college, I went right out of high school. I was going to be a rock star, right? That whole thing didn't work out, but I did make my living as a musician for a long time. But so as I was starting have, I don't know, you call it a reverse. Teasi Cannon (12:55) As I was getting into my late 40s, and I never went to college, I went right out of high school, I was going to be a rock star, right? That whole thing didn't work out. I did make my living as a musician for a long time. So as I starting to have, I don't know, you call it a reverse R. L. Solberg (13:11) life crisis or something, I started getting into the academic side of it. I saw my oldest daughter at the time, young, yeah, first daughter at the time, going to college. And I thought, that looks Teasi Cannon (13:11) midlife crisis or something, I started getting into the academic side of it. I saw my oldest daughter at the time, yeah, first daughter at the time, go into college and I thought, that looks... R. L. Solberg (13:21) really fun. I would love to have a reading assignments and do quizzes. And, you know, I don't know why I'm nerd like that. But are you okay? Yeah, yeah. So you there's something really fun about it. And then I thought something in me was like, Well, you know, Rob, you've been only pursuing the little bits that interest you. Teasi Cannon (13:21) I'm with you. I'm one of those. Yeah, I'm one of those. R. L. Solberg (13:38) what if you got a formal education and looked at all the parts of theology and apologetics? So that's why I ended up going back to college in my late 40s, ⁓ ended up getting my master's degree. I'm now almost to my PhD, working on the dissertation right now. in that process, apologetics went from a personal inward pursuit to confirm my faith or confirm the truth claims of Christianity to then being sort of outward focused. Teasi Cannon (13:43) theology and apologetics. So that's why I ended up going back to college in my late 40s, ended up getting my master's degree. I'm now almost to my PhD working on the dissertation right now. So in that process though, apologetics went from a personal inward pursuit to... Confirm my faith or confirm the truth claims of Christianity to then be sort of outward R. L. Solberg (14:07) But when I finally sort of I think of it as when I got my assignment from God, he Teasi Cannon (14:07) it but when I finally sort of I think it would add when I got my assignment from God R. L. Solberg (14:14) he sent me out to this remote outpost of apologetics called Hebrew roots. And I had never heard of it. I just saw a friend of mine. So we moved from Minneapolis down to Nashville in 2004. And an old friend of mine from up in Minneapolis started posting on Facebook all this stuff about you Christians, you shouldn't be celebrating Christmas. It's a pagan holiday. And I was like, wait a second, I went to church with that guy. What's he talking about? And so I waited in, know, and so I got, I got, I guess I would call it I walked through the back of the wardrobe into this other world of Hebrew root. Teasi Cannon (14:27) Yeah ⁓ R. L. Solberg (14:49) like, what's going on around here? I don't get any of it. But something in my spirit, again, my apologetic contrarian mind or whatever, said, Teasi Cannon (14:57) And so I would look into every claim that he made, would start studying and then turn into each one became a blog article for me. And then by then I was actually going to Williamson College and I remember Ed Smith, the president there, he pulled me aside and said, you what's all this work you're doing? He was seeing some of it. And at the time I said, well, actually, Ed, R. L. Solberg (14:57) well, that can't be right. You know, and so I would look into everything, every claim that he'd made, I would start studying and then turned into each one became a blog article for me. And then by then, I was actually going to Williamson College. And I remember ⁓ Ed Smith, the president there, he pulled me aside and said, you know, what's all this work you're doing? He was seeing some of it. And at the time, I said, well, actually, Ed, I've Teasi Cannon (15:19) I've written an entire book based, starting with my blog articles, but fleshed it out into a full book, which has now become R. L. Solberg (15:19) written an entire book based, starting with my blog articles, but fleshed it out into a full book, which has now become Torahism. And anyway, what happened in the Hebrew roots world, for those of you who aren't familiar in a nutshell, it simply means anyone of a belief system that tries to teach that new covenant Christians are required to keep the old covenant law, including, and most of the time it's all they're talking about, including the... Teasi Cannon (15:44) including the R. L. Solberg (15:45) the biblical food laws, the feasts, the Sabbath and circumcision. It's kind of only really four that they talk about. So because that was my assigned area of apologetics, I necessarily drove into the Old Testament very deeply and I found myself falling in love. my gosh, this is amazing. ⁓ Which I really, to your point earlier, I hadn't had a lot of exposure to the Old Testament. Teasi Cannon (15:46) biblical food laws, the feasts, the Sabbath, and circumcision. It's kind of only really the form that they talk about. So because that was my assigned area of apologetics, I necessarily dove into the Old Testament very deeply, and I found myself falling in love. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Which I really, to your point earlier, I hadn't had a lot of exposure to the Old Testament. So in the last, I guess, what would that be? R. L. Solberg (16:12) So in the last, I guess, what would that be, six or seven years, I've sort of had a crash course and just fallen in love with it. And a lot of my studies and even my dissertation are largely based on Old Testament work ⁓ and understanding what is all this stuff before Christ and how does it help us learn who Christ is? And I just find it so beautiful. And so that's kind how I ended up right where I am. And so it's one of those things where like the first three... Teasi Cannon (16:14) or seven years I've sort of had a crash course and just fallen in love with it and a lot of my studies and even my dissertations are largely based on Old Testament work and understanding what is all this stuff before Christ and how does it help us learn who Christ is. Right. And I just find it so beautiful. So that's kind how I ended up right where I am. And so it's one of those things where like the first three years or so maybe a little longer that I was writing blog articles and doing all this stuff my life was like R. L. Solberg (16:37) years or so maybe a little longer that I was writing blog articles and doing all this stuff. My wife was like, Okay, that's nice. I don't get what you're doing at all. But you know, he's passionate. So it's funny that she started calling it my doodles. She's like, go you go do your doodles, you know, as you know, just like as a joke between us. And then later on, I said, Will you please always call it doodles? So I remember not to take myself super seriously. You know, Teasi Cannon (16:44) Right. yeah. I love that. Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (17:02) So, but this became my passion and my assignment and all of that together. So that's why I find myself like in the book that you just talked about when Teasi Cannon (17:09) When we're reading Galatians, the New Testament book, how amazing to see all the Old Testament connections. Right. R. L. Solberg (17:10) we're reading Galatians, a New Testament book, how amazing to see all the Old Testament connections in there. Teasi Cannon (17:15) One thing you said, though, early on in what you were sharing that I loved the way you framed this is that you were kicking the load bearing walls of your faith. I've never heard that expression, but I love that. R. L. Solberg (17:26) Yeah, that's what it reminded me of. I'm like, are you sure we want to build on this? Teasi Cannon (17:29) Yeah, but I think what's sad, what I see in our culture these days, and you see it too, I'm sure, is that Well, you and I would both say from our own studies that the load bearing walls can stand. Like the load bearing walls won't be knocked down. But what we see is people knocking out a pocket door or something and thinking that the whole house needs to be demolished. And that is very sad to me. ⁓ We do have a robust faith and that actually brings me to the main heart of the conversation and what my goal is and what my prayer is. R. L. Solberg (17:42) Amen. Amen. Yes, that's a great analogy. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (18:03) is for this podcast is that I want to specifically I'm inviting apologists, which are just people like what you described. We've mentioned this in prior episodes, people who have intentionally gone to seek out the answers for why we believe what we believe. there are apologists for all belief systems. But when we're talking about Christian apologetics, we're talking about an intentional search to test those load-bearing walls. Why do we believe this? How substantive is this faith. And so I'm inviting apologists to come on, but to open their hearts to us to specifically share what a gift of love apologetics can be from God when we are ⁓ experiencing heartbreak or confusion. And this can be an episode in our life, something that happened once, or it can be an ongoing struggle. And these apologists have agreed to open that up to share that with us, but also then to share with us the comfort ⁓ they receive from God's Word. bolstered by evidence that they've studied. ⁓ And that way when listeners walk away, my prayer is that we will all see that we're not alone, that the real Christian life includes suffering, that we will know God's promises aren't empty. And then we can add some tools to our own tool belt to just build our confidence for our own lives and when we want to share our comfort with others. so Rob, thank you so much for being willing to be one of my guests. to open up your heart in this way for us and I'm gonna quit talking now and just sort of let you start where you want to start and we'll just continue our conversation kind of as it you know as we go along so thank you. R. L. Solberg (19:41) you my gosh. Yeah, I love that you're doing this I think this is so amazing because especially for people like me and I'm just being vulnerable here I can get into the academic intellectual side of it and forget there's a purpose. It's not ⁓ It's not necessarily about building these wonderful airtight arguments for God, but it's about what does that mean then? You know, Teasi Cannon (19:55) Especially for people like me, and I'm just being vulnerable here, I can get into the academic, intellectual side of it and forget there's a purpose. ⁓ It's not necessarily about building these wonderful airtight arguments for that, but it's about what does that mean And there's times like funerals, or when someone they love is fighting cancer, ⁓ or apologetics becomes a tool of compassion and a tool of love to... R. L. Solberg (20:11) there's times like funerals, or when someone they love is fighting cancer or those sorts of things where apologetics becomes a tool of compassion and a tool of love to point out who God Teasi Cannon (20:24) God really is in all of this stuff and great He is in the midst of, like you said, suffering. mean, suffering is one of those things where we don't like that. Who wants to suffer, right? We want our best life now, as the book says, right? And so I laugh because I'm if you think we can have anything like a best life now, on this side of heaven, I think you're mistaken. R. L. Solberg (20:24) really is in all of this stuff and how great he is in the midst of, like you said, suffering. mean, suffering is one of those things where we don't like that. Who wants to suffer? Right. We want our best life now, as the book says. Right. And so I laugh because I'm thinking, if you think we can have anything like a best life now on this side of heaven, I think you're mistaken. But Teasi Cannon (20:47) you know, on personal note, my... R. L. Solberg (20:46) you know, on a personal note, my, I had a number of Teasi Cannon (20:50) had a number of stories I could share, I think the biggest one I wanted to talk about today, because maybe some people would relate to this, is the issue I had with my father, my dad. And so my birth father, we'll call him Dorian, left when I was five years old. And my mom remarried my stepfather, which is where I got those names, and he raised me and he was a wonderful man, a coffee man. But my birth father... R. L. Solberg (20:51) stories I could share. I think the biggest one I wanted to talk about today, because maybe some people would relate to this, is the issue I had with my father, my dad. ⁓ And so my birth father, we'll call him Dorian, left when I was five years old. And my mom remarried my stepfather, which is where I got the name Solberg. And he raised me he was wonderful man, godly man. But my birth father, ⁓ by the way, I was named after him. So for the first Teasi Cannon (21:19) Wow. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (21:21) 10 years of my life. My name was Dorian Robert Boyle the second. and so I was called Robbie and then when it was time to change my name, I got adopted by my stepdad that my parents said you can choose your own middle name and here I am 10 years old right late 70s like Luke Duke and Luke Skywalker. I'm gonna go with Luke. You know, my mom's like well, that's a biblical name. So we'll go with that. But anyway, what happened is he walked out of my life. He left when I was five. And so there's ⁓ you know, even though I had a ⁓ male role model, there were issues with fatherhood and being abandoned and all those sorts of things that kind of crop and creep up. And so over time, he would eventually come into town, you know, every year or something in his fancy little sports car. And he was more like a fun uncle than an actual dad. Now, fast forward later in my life, when we had our first child, I was 26 years old. I had his contact information. He was out in California and I reached out to him. And so we sort of rekindled this relationship, but as adults now. And so there was this different ⁓ dynamic going on. And he knew at that point I was getting back into my faith. And so talking to him, I, Hey dad, know, you were raised, I know that from, you know, growing up and my grandpa, his father, you were raised Roman Catholic, Irish Catholic, right? ⁓ You know, kind of talking about what he believes now. And it turns out he went through this whole. ⁓ rejection of the church as a teen. left. He saw God as this cold, hard father, which by the way, his father was also kind of cold. so he walked away from the faith and he got into this whole beatnik generation with Aldous Huxley and, you know, all these sorts of things. So ⁓ when we got to talking about it, we would just kind of talk past one another, right? So we would, you know, Teasi Cannon (22:59) And so he walked away from the faith and he got into this whole beatnik generation with Elvis Huxley and all these sorts of things. So when we got to talking about it, we would just kind of talk past one another, right? So we would, you know, we wanted to stay in relationship with one another. So we just did Del on the topic. R. L. Solberg (23:14) We wanted to stay in relationship with one another, so we just didn't delve on the topic. Later in his life, he got sick. He was, boy, I'll spare you all the details. He was a very interesting guy, brilliant, creative, a little bit delusional, maybe. You know, he's like a roaming nomad. He would go everywhere. So later on in his life, he finds himself in a studio apartment in Tucson, Arizona in his late 70s, all by himself. ⁓ I had come to learn over time that I have Teasi Cannon (23:19) Later in his life, he got sick. He was, boy, I'll spare you all the details. He was a very interesting guy, brilliant, creative, a little bit delusional maybe. He's like roaming nomad. was everywhere. So later on in his life, he finds himself in a studio apartment in Tucson, Arizona in his late 70s all by himself. I had come to learn over time that I have, he'd been married and divorced couple of times. Wow. dash siblings from. R. L. Solberg (23:44) He'd been married and divorced four times. I've got eight half siblings from three other marriages in the summer fling. So I've got all these siblings out there, which is kind of Old Testament, now that I think about it. ⁓ And so at one point I said, so there's this book by Greg Boyd called Letters from a Skeptic. And Greg Boyd at the time said, well, you know what? I want to write to my dad who's not a believer, and I'm a pastor. let's share letters. They did like a letter swaps, right? And I thought for some reason, I thought, I want to try that with my dad. So rather than letters, though, we bought him a little laptop and got him on Facebook. And so we were doing it on Facebook Messenger. ⁓ And so I just said, Hey, dad, would you what would you think of us talking about our faith? You know, at the time, now this is at this point, I'm in my late 40s. I'm going to college trying to get my, you know, master's degree in theological studies. And I said, ⁓ Can we talk about Teasi Cannon (24:17) So rather than letters, though, we bought him a little laptop and got him on Facebook. And so we were doing it on Facebook Messenger. And so I just said, hey, Dad, what would you think of us talking about our faith? At this point, I'm in my late 40s. I'm going to college, trying to my master's degree in theological studies. And I said, can we talk about? R. L. Solberg (24:42) just faith stuff, I have some questions for you. like, Yeah, sure, let's go for it. And we both have this weird thing, you know, we're, we're kind of non confrontational. So when person in person or on the phone, we would just sort of give these friendly civil replies. But in writing, were both just like, boom, you know, ⁓ brilliant writer. So we ended up on this journey. And he revealed that he considered himself a quiet atheist. And I'm here, I am a theology student, you know, and ⁓ Teasi Cannon (24:42) Right. ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (25:10) But then I found out he had been reading my blog. He Teasi Cannon (25:13) He really liked how I used scripture to support my arguments. He said it's like a lawyer in court, no other case. He said, I've never seen anyone cite scripture like that. I bet you have or you didn't notice it, or maybe your particular Catholic church. R. L. Solberg (25:13) really liked how I used scripture to support my arguments. He said it's like a lawyer in court building a case. He's like, I've never seen anyone cite scripture like that. And I'm like, I bet you have, and you didn't notice it, or maybe your particular Catholic church. I don't know. Anyway, so we got into it. Teasi Cannon (25:35) So we got into R. L. Solberg (25:36) And so what happened was this was my apologetic field and this was my father who denied Jesus. He was one of those guys who said Jesus was a great teacher. He had some good stuff to say, but he was in his mind. I think he might have been a little off his rocker too because some of the stuff he said was weird, know. Teasi Cannon (25:36) it. What happened was, this was my apologetic field and this was my father who denied Jesus. He was one of those guys. Jesus was a great teacher, had some good stuff to say, but he was in his mind. I think he might have been a little off his rocker too because some of the stuff he said was weird. R. L. Solberg (25:53) What stuff was weird? And so we kind of got into it, which was wonderful. But what I found was there was a very, very strong line of philosophy that he had inherited from, again, the beatnik kind of love generation and Aldous Huxley, and who's the guy that wrote the book about ⁓ going on the road? I can't remember right now. There's that famous book about these guys took this road journey, right? And, and it just influenced this whole generation. So between that and his Catholicism, I would ask him when it got time, ask Dad, okay, just tell me, what do think about God? Who do you think God is? His answer would be He would immediately go to on senior Moynihan and what he said one time when he was in school in the seventh grade or whatever and I'd say, okay, that's fine. But I'm talking about God himself, you know, or when I would talk about the Holy Spirit or Jesus or something, he would say, I'll tell you what, though, those nuns, man, they would, you know, they would chase after me. And I'm like, Dad, I'm not talking about the nuns. Teasi Cannon (26:55) Right, he kept it at a distance. wouldn't didn't want to talk about his maker his his creator R. L. Solberg (26:59) Right. Yeah. And he had conflated so much in his, you know, and I actually went at one point, I said, Dad, you're not in eighth grade anymore. So now you're a grown up. Now you've you're near almost 80 years old. We needed to separate those things, you know, so he couldn't do it. So what I ended up doing, which is kind of interesting, by the way, this is a book I'm working on right now, because we ended up having this huge long conversation that I about halfway through went, oh, this Teasi Cannon (27:15) ⁓ R. L. Solberg (27:26) is amazing and I started saving it into a face or a word document. So we've got like a 40,000 word conversation. But at one point, because he was so ⁓ convinced of the of the Teasi Cannon (27:32) Wow. R. L. Solberg (27:41) connection between all these things, like I couldn't I couldn't break break it down to actually get him to talk about just concepts, like you said, like your creator. So I said, Dad, OK, imagine this. And I set the scene for a little short story because he's a very creative guy. He writes all the time poetry, song lyrics, movie scripts. So I said, Dad, imagine me and you were on a mountain and ⁓ we're sitting there, no one else in the world or at least no one within thousands of miles of us. It's night. We're looking up at the stars. We're just sitting there hanging out together. How do you explain the existence of the stars? There's no Catholic church, there's nothing right. And so this began this really long sort of back and forth ⁓ story where he would, he responded to me not indirectly, not directly, but in an as in by extending my little short story. And so I responded by extending it further and like each suggesting where the plot might go and he brings in another person and this this whole very interesting thing where underneath it all, it's all allegorical. It's us talking at this sort of once removed level about reality about what matters and he was very much into Teasi Cannon (28:40) It's us talking at this sort of once removed level about reality, about what matters. And he was very much into R. L. Solberg (28:47) being kind to people and not, you know, all this sort of stuff, which lots of Christian things in there. And I would say, on what basis, you know, on what basis do you think it's important to be kind to a person? Teasi Cannon (28:47) being kind to people and not, you know, all this sort of stuff, which lots of Christian things in there. And I would say on what basis, know, it's important to be kind to a person. R. L. Solberg (28:59) Well, because they're another person. Okay, well, why does that matter? You know, you dig down, you dig down. There's this, there's this technique ⁓ that I've applied from the corporate software design world over into apologetics. It's called, it's, it actually comes from the Teasi Cannon (29:00) Well, because they're another person. Okay, well, why does that matter? You know, you dig down, you dig down. There's this technique that I've applied from the corporate software design world over into apologetics. called, it actually comes from the, R. L. Solberg (29:17) some man, auto maker, maybe Toyota. And Teasi Cannon (29:17) some automaker, maybe Toyota. ⁓ and you ask the five whys. You ask the question why five times to get down to the root of the problem. And I found that works really well when people have sort of misunderstandings about what the Bible says about God or even about the nature of life. You say, well, murder's wrong. You shouldn't murder anyone. Why? Well, because that's me. I mean, it's me that takes someone's life. Okay, why is that wrong? It takes someone's life. R. L. Solberg (29:22) you ask the five whys, you ask the question why five times to get down to the root of the problem. And I found that works really well when people have sort of misunderstandings about what the Bible says about God or even about the nature of life. You say, well, murder is wrong. You shouldn't murder anyone. Why? Well, because that's mean. I mean, it's mean to take someone's life. OK, why is that wrong? That takes someone's life. does their life have value, that sort of thing. So you bring it down and at the bottom that I've found every single time I found without God, there is no ultimate why. Without the sanctity of human life, we're made in the image of God. A Christian can say this is why murder is wrong. This is it's wrong to abuse somebody to lie to manipulate all these things that God doesn't like, because we're made in the image of God. And God is our is our unchanging source of moral purity. Teasi Cannon (29:46) Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (30:12) And so we've got that as a basis. My dad didn't have one. And so he would, you know, dodge back and forth. And so what happened was for the first time in my life, I realized the stakes are really high because my dad was not doing well. He's in his late seventies. Actually, he just turned 80 while we were talking about this stuff. Our conversation was the last two years of his life. And so I started saying, okay, this isn't like just chatting with my old buddy from Teasi Cannon (30:24) The stakes are really high because my dad was not doing well. was his late 70s. Actually, he just turned 80 while we were talking about this stuff. Our conversation was the last two years of his life. And so I started saying, OK, this isn't just chatting with my old buddy from Minnesota. My dad's about to die, and where he goes depends on, for a while there, I thought, depends on my ability to argue him into the faith. But then later on, I came to realize it really wasn't about me. R. L. Solberg (30:39) Minnesota. This is my dad's about to die and where he goes depends on for a while there I thought depends on my ability to argue him into the faith. But then later on I came to realize it really wasn't about me. I was playing a role that God had for me. But ⁓ and so when you when the stakes get that high you start going man I don't do I really believe in hell. You even ask yourself that. Would I really believe that there's actually eternal consequences of rejecting Jesus. Teasi Cannon (30:55) Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (31:09) Abstractly, I knew that. But now I was living it out in real life to say, what about my father? So I end up getting a call. ⁓ Let's see, we were about a year and a half into it, maybe, maybe a little more. And I get a call. He was down in Tucson. I'm here in Nashville. I get a call from the VA. Hey, your dad is not doing well. We just brought him in. had some sort of episode. His neighbor found him passed out. ⁓ And he's in the ICU. You might want to come down and say goodbye. I was apparently I was listed because I said, Well, who's his? ⁓ Whatever you call it, who's the person making the medical decisions because he was in a medically induced coma at that time. And they in the lady at the VA says, Well, apparently you are because your name's on this paper. And I'm like, I am I don't how am I the one to make decisions for him. So anyway, so I flew down there, walked into his, his ICU room. He's, you know, Teasi Cannon (31:43) whatever you call it. Who's the person making the medical decisions? Because he was in a medically induced coma at that time. Wow. And the lady at the VA says, well, apparently you are because your name's on this paper. And I'm like, I am. How am I the one to make decisions for him? So anyway, so I flew down there, walked into his ICU. He's got the stuff in his mouth, the tubes and that kind of stuff. He's passed out. R. L. Solberg (32:05) He's got the stuff in his mouth, the tubes and all that kind of stuff. He's passed out. He's, and I started talking to him and they said, yeah, he's having all these issues. He's going through alcohol withdrawal for one. And because of his age and his weakness, that's dangerous for him. So we had to put him in a medically induced coma so that he doesn't, his body doesn't just shut down, all his organs shut down. All the things, he had some cancer, he had COPD, all the things. And in one sense, you're like, well, he's. Teasi Cannon (32:16) He's going through alcohol withdrawal for one and because of his age and his weakness, that's dangerous for him. So we had to put him in a medically induced coma so that his body doesn't just shut down, all his organs shut down. He had some cancer, had COPD, all the things. In one sense you're like, he's 80, almost 81, so not like a big surprise, but he never took care of himself. So anyway, I go down there and again, we have this long conversation going on, right? And so I'm going down there wondering. R. L. Solberg (32:34) 80, almost 81. So not like a big surprise, but he never took care of himself. So anyway, I go down there. And again, we have this long conversation going on, right. And so I'm going down there wondering, will this be a wake up call for my dad? Will he first of all, will he survive? But if he does, will this be a wake up call for him? And so while I'm there, they kind of bring him out. And he's kind of all blurry eyed. And I remember he had the tubes in so he couldn't talk. So he gestured for a whiteboard that they had given him for he could write stuff, you know. Teasi Cannon (32:45) will this be a wake-up call for my dad? First of all, will he survive? But if he does, will this be a wake-up call for him? And so while I'm there, they kind of bring him out, and he's kind of all blurry-eyed. And I remember he had the tubes in so he couldn't talk. So he gestured for a whiteboard that they had given him so he could write stuff. R. L. Solberg (33:03) And so I had not seen him at this point in Teasi Cannon (33:04) And so I had not seen him at this point in. R. L. Solberg (33:07) 10 years, 15 years, ⁓ face to face. So we've been talking a lot on Facebook Messenger. So here he's awake, he's grabbing the whiteboard, he gets a pen and he starts writing, you know, the dry erase pen really shaky and stuff. I thought, man, he just woke up from this episode in his apartment. And now all of a sudden I'm here, which is very weird. Like that's big thing. Teasi Cannon (33:08) 10 years, 15 years, face to face. We've been talking a lot on Facebook Messenger. So here he's awake, he's grabbing the whiteboard, gets a pen and he starts writing, you know, the dry erase pen, really shaky and stuff. I thought, man. Right, ⁓ R. L. Solberg (33:32) And I'm wondering if he's going to say, you know, of course, in my mind, I'm like, I hope he writes, I heart Jesus or something. Cause you're hoping or I believe or something like that. Or even he might, I'm thinking maybe he's going to write, ⁓ thank you so much for coming. I love you son. You know, like I really appreciate you being here. And he just wrote one word on the whiteboard and he showed it to me and it said brandy. Teasi Cannon (33:55) wondering if that's what you were gonna say. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (33:56) And I would, and I'm like, Brandy. And I was thinking the first thing I thought in my mind was, I don't think we know anyone named Brandy. And the nurse says he's asking for his alcohol, you know, cause that way apparently this is a drink of choice. He wanted me to go back to his apartment and get, which I eventually later did. I didn't get the booze, but I go there and he's got this huge jug of Brandy that's half gone. And so I thought, Oh man, this he's not at all, you know, where I was hoping he would be by now. And that's kind of heartbreaking because Teasi Cannon (34:23) Right. Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (34:26) Now he's even closer to death's door. So can we talk? He can't really talk. I held his hand. I prayed for him out loud, hoping something would get through. And then eventually, and by the way, at that visit, I met about five of my eight half siblings. I'm like, oh, that's wild. You look kind of familiar, but you're also a stranger. But it was kind of cool to meet them and hear their stories about it. But I ended up having to go back home. And he had started getting better. Teasi Cannon (34:53) home and he had started getting better and they asked us, let me know, they said well it's not, you know, we'll do what we can. And he ended up actually getting all the way better and getting sent back home for five months. And then I get another call on a Monday, your father's passed away. Okay, so I'm... R. L. Solberg (34:55) I said, just let me know. They said, well, it's not, you know, we'll do what we can. And he ended up actually getting all the way better and getting sent back home for five months. And then I get another call on a Monday, your father's passed away. ⁓ man. Okay. So I'm wondering what to do. You know, again, they're like, you're the one that has to make all the funeral arrangements. like, me? didn't? Why? Teasi Cannon (35:17) wondering what to do. know, again, they're like, you're one that has to make all the funeral arrangements. So we ended up going back out to Tucson, this time dedicating it to me and my wife. I'm like, okay, Lord, this is it. My dad's a prolific writer. We got him a laptop. I know he's always writing stuff by hand. R. L. Solberg (35:25) So we end up going back out to Tucson. This time Deb came with me, my wife. And I'm like, OK, Lord, this is it. My dad's a prolific writer. We got him a laptop. I know he's always writing stuff by hand. When I get to his apartment, Lord, please let me find some evidence of faith in I want to I couldn't wait to look through his files on his laptop, all the other stuff that he was like because he processes like I do by writing. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (35:39) When I get to his apartment, Lord, please let me find some evidence of faith. I couldn't wait to look through his files on his laptop, all the other stuff that he was, because he had processes like I do by writing. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (35:53) And so we fly out there, we get there, ⁓ Teasi Cannon (35:53) And so we fly out there, we get there. R. L. Solberg (35:57) go up to the front desk. They didn't even realize it. So I got a call on Monday that he had died. He had actually died Saturday. I didn't realize that. they didn't, you know, the person that calls to report these things apparently didn't come across their desk until two days later. So I had no sense of what his last minutes were like. ⁓ And so that's what I wanted to find out. So we go down there, go to the office of the apartment complex and say, Hey, we need to get into such and such apartment. Teasi Cannon (35:57) go up to the front desk, they didn't even realize it. So I got a call on Monday that he had died. He had actually died Saturday. I didn't realize that. didn't, you know, the person that calls to report these things apparently did come across their desk for two days later. I had no sense of what his last minutes were like. And so that's what I wanted to find out. So we go down there, go to the office of the apartment complex and say, Hey, I need to get into such and such apartment. R. L. Solberg (36:23) here, you know, they go, here's the key and let him know that he had passed and all that. Teasi Cannon (36:23) You know, they go, here's the key. And let them know that he had passed. R. L. Solberg (36:27) Okay, thanks for letting us know. Go down there to get and this is no offense to anyone that might live in Tucson, but this is like the armpit of Tucson where he lived. Okay, this was very low rent area, a little bit like you felt a little bit in danger. So go into going up to his apartment, I put the key in the door. As soon as I touch the key to the door, the door swings open. Like, oh, man, I look inside and I see the Teasi Cannon (36:29) Go down there to get, this is, no offense to anyone that might live in Tucson, but this is like the armpit of Tucson. Very low red area, a little bit, you felt a little bit in danger. So go into, going up to the apartment, I put the key in the door. As soon as I touch the key to the door, the door swings open. Like, ⁓ man. wow. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (36:52) frame of the door smashed in. So someone had kicked in the front door and then shut it but never locked it, right? Or if they did, the lock wasn't working anymore. So I'm like, oh man, I opened it up. This is the nastiest studio apartment you've ever seen. It smelled like an ashtray, just dirty, grimy. And I look around and everything of value is gone. TV's been taken off the wall, his laptop's nowhere to be found. Teasi Cannon (37:08) ⁓ R. L. Solberg (37:20) all kinds of stuff, which I imagine none of those were very valuable in the first place, but they were the things someone might steal, right? So anyway, so we go through it, and I'm scouring through grabbing all these files, paper files, and nothing of his final days was there. I had no, nothing Teasi Cannon (37:21) Right Yeah. Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (37:35) would give me any insight into what happened to my dad. What did he believe in his last day? And that was like, that was so crushing. I would have been better with a solid answer than I than with not knowing anything. What So, you know, you, had to talk with God or he had to talk with me is a better way to put it, but I just had to bring it to him because it's like, Lord, what's going on? I felt like I was being, I felt like I was being obedient and I shared what I could share as much as he was willing to listen, maybe even more than he was willing to listen. Cause I was his son. So he probably gave me a little more leeway to talk about things. And now you're not going to show me anything. And so that was really, that became a bitter pill for me. Teasi Cannon (37:54) Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (38:19) personally to say, do I, how do I deal with this? is my, you know, he left me, but it's a weird thing. Or maybe it's a God thing. But when you're a son and it's your father, there's always a bond. There's always something there. This is part of my identity. think this. A lot of my identity comes from the man who gave it to me. Right. So what do I do with that now? And it took me a while to work through it, but I ended up using apologetics, so to speak, on myself. Teasi Cannon (38:24) Right. Right. ⁓ What do I do with that now? And it took me a while to work through it, but I ended up using apologetics, so to speak, on myself R. L. Solberg (38:48) to say, well, hold on, let's look at this. You know, once the emotions fade, we ended up having him cremated because he had no family anywhere that would claim a body or bury it anywhere, no plot. So we ended up having this sort of really kind of a sad ⁓ Teasi Cannon (38:48) to say, well, hold on, let's look at this. You know, once the emotions fade, we ended up having him pre-mated because he had no family anywhere that would claim a body or bury it anywhere, no plot. So we ended up having this sort of really kind of a sad... R. L. Solberg (39:06) funeral service, if we want to call it that. Deb and I, literally just the two of us, and an urn full of his ashes out in the desert in Arizona. We just drove till we found a place that was beautiful. Teasi Cannon (39:06) Wow. Well, before you go on, I just want to say that I am thinking of several people that I know. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (39:17) bowed our heads and said a prayer and scattered his ashes to the wind. And I'm like, that's the end. That's the end. my gosh. So how do I deal with that? Yeah. Teasi Cannon (39:33) who have walked a parent or someone they love home and at the end had that uncertainty. And I've watched my friends cry not knowing whether their dad, where's their dad? ⁓ And so I think what you're talking about is just so significant. We know as Christians that there are gonna be some people who don't believe in Jesus, but when it comes close to you and it's a relative, I have relatives that I- love that we've had those biblical conversations and yet I don't know whether their heart is softening or not but I also I don't I mean this is kind of sidebar but it's interesting because my story is really so I have a similar story I was raised by a man who adopted me as his own and I also had a biological father that I, you know, and I have several half siblings that I didn't know and all of these, I'm listening to your story and it's just absolutely hitting my heart. The reason I'm saying that is that I'm feeling that with you. And I'm thinking, you know, yes, even though I wasn't raised by this man, you weren't raised by him at the end of his life, his life mattered a lot to you because he is part of your DNA. And as a son, as a daughter, even I felt the significant weight of that too, even though there wasn't this, you know, my dad who raised me is who I consider my father. R. L. Solberg (40:29) Okay. Yes. ⁓ Teasi Cannon (40:55) This is still a soul that matters a lot and you are here after all those times the laptops gone Which would have maybe been where you could have seen his last, you know writings or whatever and you have no you have no objectively verifiable evidence of Where your dad is where his eternity will be spent and I think a lot of people understand R. L. Solberg (41:07) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (41:20) the feeling of that, the angst of that. So I'm looking forward to hearing how God comforted you. so yeah, I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna stop talking, let you finish. But I just wanted to say, this is huge. I'm thinking of a lot of people R. L. Solberg (41:30) You So when we were ⁓ praying, right before we kind of spread Teasi Cannon (41:35) when we were praying right before we kind of... R. L. Solberg (41:41) his ashes, you know, I was planning in my mind as we were driving, was thinking, what are all the things I want to say? And at the end, I couldn't say any of them. I could just say, you know, accept my Father's spirit if it's not too late, according to your will, you know, scattering the ashes. And so in the weeks and maybe even year after that, there was that struggle. There was that, okay, God is sovereign and I'm not. I know that part. I know that intellectually, but I needed to understand it in my heart, that I don't get to call the shots, that if I want to rail to heavens and say that's not fair, it doesn't amount to much because I'm not the arbiter of fairness, right? And so this is what it really came down to for me. And this is where I got to say the Psalms are Teasi Cannon (42:10) I know that intellectually, but I needed to understand it in my heart. That I don't get called a Shaz. That if I want to rail to heavens and say that's not fair, it doesn't amount to much, because I'm not the arbiter of fairness, right? And so this is where it really came down to for me. And this is where I have to say the Psalms are so important in this part of my journey. R. L. Solberg (42:30) so important in this part of my journey. So when you can read the Psalms, and these are 3,000 year old poems, and you're like, oh my gosh, that's me. I'm in that same spot. God understands is the thing that kept coming through to me. God understands. But more than that, God is just. So whatever happened to my father's soul, am I willing to set down my own personal Teasi Cannon (42:35) When you can read this poem, and these are 3,000 year old poems, and you're like, oh my gosh, that's me, you know? I'm in that same spot. God understands this is thing that kept coming through to me. God understands. But more than that, God is just. So, whatever happened to my father's soul, am I willing to set down my own personal, R. L. Solberg (43:00) whatever you'd call that, desires, will, and just bend my knee to God and say, God, I believe that you're sovereign and that if he rejected you, if he continued to reject you till the last days of his life, because he would tell me, by the way, he was Catholic and there's something called, I think it's called unction or last unction. I don't know. I'm a Protestant, but Teasi Cannon (43:00) whatever you call that, desire, will, and just bend my knee to God and say, God, I believe that you're sovereign, and that if he rejected you, if he continued to reject you till the last days of his life, because he would tell me, by the way, he was Catholic, and there's something called, I it's called unction, or last unction, I don't know, I'm a Protestant. R. L. Solberg (43:21) there's the thing you can do where you say the prayer on your deathbed and suddenly you're saved. He would always tell me that's a big cop-up. Teasi Cannon (43:21) There's the thing you can do where you say the prayer on your deathbed and suddenly you're saved. You always tell me that's a big cop-up. R. L. Solberg (43:29) That's just like getting your ticket punched at the end and you didn't even, you know, that's not, I would say, dad, it's only a cop out if it's not true. If you really do come to faith and that's not a cop out, then that's admitting what you've come to understand is true. know, so that was in my mind. And I thought, if Teasi Cannon (43:29) That's just like getting your ticket punched at the end and it didn't even open up. I would say that's only a cop-up if it's not true. If you really do come to faith and that's not a cop-up, then that's admitting what you've come to understand is true. So that was in my mind. And I thought, if... R. L. Solberg (43:50) in the last moments between him and God and he did the same thing and he said, no, I'm on my deathbed. I'm not going to cop out and you know, take the easier route and admit faith in you. Even in my mind, I thought maybe his brain would say that, but his heart would think differently. I don't know. You kind of try to justify those things. But at the end of the day, what I came down to is I have to, I have to trust God's justice. That if my father rejected Christ willingly and knowingly and consistently throughout his life, like C.S. Lewis says, he talks about there being two kinds of people in the world. One, two people that will say to God, Teasi Cannon (44:04) Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (44:27) your will be done. And then there are other people to whom God will say, your will be done. So if his will was not to spend eternity with God, then God would have honored that. And as heartbreaking as that is for me, I have to know that that's the loving God of the universe making the right decision for this particular soul, as much as I might disagree. So ⁓ it's easy to describe sort of in a two-minute description, but they Teasi Cannon (44:45) making the right decision for this particular soul. Right. Because I agree. that's a, it's easy to describe sort of in a two minute. No, R. L. Solberg (44:56) You know, you get it. The emotions are tough. Teasi Cannon (44:56) You get it. Emotions are tough. Yeah, so you said, so you're thinking, okay, I mean, yes, we're just saying this, but it isn't this simple thing when you have to come to terms with. he or she might not be saved. We want to believe that there's this last that God offers everyone a final chance and we don't know we can't know what goes on between God and a soul in their last moments but we do know like you said that God is just and you also just mentioned that you know that he's loving and I was thinking how I we know he is merciful and I can't remember the exact scripture but but it says that God does not want anyone to perish. He is not a god that is, I mean if there's any scales leaning in a certain direction, he wants to give us every opportunity. He does it our favor if anything. Right and so like that's part of the comfort but you know we don't have that guarantee and so I'm wondering R. L. Solberg (45:49) Right, yeah, they're in our favor if anything. Teasi Cannon (46:01) when you say that you believe that God is loving, what do you think of? Like what convinces you of that in that moment for someone that might be saying, okay, I get the justice, I can understand God's justice, but in that kind of moment, how could it be loving for him, for my dad, my sister, to spend eternity? But it may not be that that act is where your substantiation of God's love comes from, but for you personally, R. L. Solberg (46:19) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (46:30) What do you lean into when you need to be reminded of God's love? R. L. Solberg (46:36) There were two areas that I leaned into. One was personal experience. ⁓ Like the psalmist does, he goes back and says he remembers the things God did, right? Lord, you brought us out of Egypt with your mighty arm and you saved us. there's all this remembering of God's salvation. And so I remember those things in my own life, being knuckleheaded and things that could have gone horribly wrong. And I feel like God intervened. ⁓ And so I had a... ⁓ Teasi Cannon (46:41) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (47:05) historical, experiential understanding that God is not vindictive and he's not, as my dad would say, you know, the cosmic policeman trying to tell people what to do in the bedroom. That was a big thing of his, right? I didn't see God like that at all. And that's because of my studying of the word. I understood those were the that was the case. so experientially was one way. But scripturally, Teasi Cannon (47:28) Yeah ⁓ R. L. Solberg (47:29) as a Old Testament nerd, you know, you read through it's not just like God made a covenant with Israel and then they messed up and then went their own way. They persistently and consistently did obscene things before God. They're kings, the kings of the nation. would worship other gods. They would sacrifice their children. They did all these horrible things and yet God gives them chance after chance after chance, right? And then they just blew Teasi Cannon (47:58) Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (47:59) it. They broke it. The kingdom broke into two. The northern... Tribes of Israel were carried off by Assyria the southern tribes defeated by Babylon all the stuff. You're like, okay That's it. God's had it and then God says but I'm promising you a new covenant You broke my old covenant you were he says you were unfair. I was the faithful husband. It says in Jeremiah 31 So they were the unfaithful bride. They broke it. It's over. It's done. You read Jeremiah He's talking in very harsh terms about how that covenant was broken and it's done and his response is I'm gonna give you a new covenant. It's not gonna be like Teasi Cannon (48:30) Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (48:34) And so that to me is this deep understanding of who God is. There was justice in what he did. Israel deserved it, but he's given them a new covenant. He's given his people a new covenant. So when I take that sort of biblical understanding of who God is and apply it to my father, okay, my dad was very much Israel. I think we're all Israel in our rebellion at some level, right? But my dad was, you know, right up there with the worst things Israel did. But it tells me that he was given. Teasi Cannon (48:59) Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (49:04) every possible chance. And if he chose not to take it, it wasn't because God's not loving. Right. And in a sense, you could say it's because he was honoring the agency of my father as someone that chose Teasi Cannon (49:20) Right. R. L. Solberg (49:20) to reject him. And he wasn't going to force my dad into his presence for eternity, which would be pure torture if my dad never accepted him. Like, I don't want to be, you know. ⁓ So what you realize, think, you look, especially in the Old Testament, to me it's ⁓ more prominent, is this global, universal, living God of the universe, creator of heaven and earth, who's behind not just all the things we see, but all of reality. And so when little Rob Solberg from Nashville comes up and says, that's not fair, when you start seeing it in that context of who God is and who we are, you realize that Teasi Cannon (49:44) Right. R. L. Solberg (50:00) It makes it easier to understand and accept it because I also don't see God as saying tough, you know, tough luck, Rob. That's just how it goes. God is when I'm on the floor weeping, he's got his arm around me and he's like, Teasi Cannon (50:06) Right. Yeah. R. L. Solberg (50:13) I didn't want this either. You know, he's Teasi Cannon (50:14) I so much of what you've said, just have to pipe in here because I'm just like, yes, I love, love that you, when I asked you, where do you go to substantiate your belief that God is loving? That yes, we all have our experiences. Well, I hope we do. I have mine too. And I think there's so much, that's why the whole modeling of memorial stones is so important. Just remembering God's goodness, but. R. L. Solberg (50:38) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (50:41) Oftentimes people look at God in the Old Testament and walk away with this totally misunderstanding, a big misunderstanding of him and even classify the Old Testament God as this cruel God and Jesus as this, thank you Jesus for coming to protect us from this horrible ogre of a dad. But you just, and what I love about the Old Testament as well is if you're willing to take the time to read it in its context and you're really willing to take the time to what's going on there. What you just described is what you see is this faithful husband who is consistently there for this unfaithful bride and not only unfaithful but grotesquely unfaithful. And I think, you know, I love that you were, I would encourage people to, if you have a misunderstanding of the Old Testament, to give it a chance because it does lead to such a robust understanding of God's character. R. L. Solberg (51:21) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (51:38) the last thing I want to say is that I see in your dad's life, like again, we don't know for sure where he is, what was the last second of his life like, but processing that through the lens of potentially he's not going to be with the Lord for eternity, but even sending you into his life. at the end, toward the end, was such an act of love from God for your dad to send a son who didn't need to be in relationship with him after years of him not really being a part of your life. But God sent you as you, and you poured in, you kept engaging. And so anyway, I just want to say that was beautiful. And I think you can look at your dad's life and know that minimally he had opportunity. And of course, Romans tells us that everyone has opportunity. R. L. Solberg (52:10) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (52:27) Opportunity because nature itself is proclaiming the majesty of God and no one will have an excuse like we have been given enough light To respond to all of us ⁓ But what I'd love to ask you then is so you have all this biblical truth I'm sure you're like all the rest of us where there are times when you stop and say Am I just a fool for believing all of this? I is this just a fool's errand as I'm am I just trying to make myself feel better? ⁓ R. L. Solberg (52:28) Right. Right. Teasi Cannon (52:56) So when you have those moments, maybe you don't, but I would think you might because you said you're a skeptic by nature. I'm sure you have these moments. When you are ⁓ in those places, is there a specific line of... R. L. Solberg (52:59) No, I do. Yep. Teasi Cannon (53:13) apologetics, meaning more the evidence for like the reliability of the scripture or one of those lines of evidence that you tend to go to most directly for yourself, just to substantiate that your faith. R. L. Solberg (53:25) Yeah. Great question. Yeah. So yes, there is. And I'll preface that by saying ⁓ what my dad would say. He said to me one time and it blew my mind. And this is sort of an illustration of the differences in worldviews. He said to me, son, you are a really good writer and you have your intelligence and you're very creative with the videos you put out and know. You have all this talent. said, imagine how much time you'd have available if you just didn't spend it on God. And I went, ⁓ it was like my whole world kind of tilted. And I said, what? And I realized in this conversation with him that he had the view of Christianity that like, think it's, it Richard Dawkins who call it, who talks about the flying spaghetti monster, right? It's this mythical thing. And in my dad's mind, all these articles, this degree I'm getting, all these videos, the books. Teasi Cannon (53:56) Wow. Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (54:19) are all about the flying spaghetti monster to my dad. ⁓ And so what I tried to explain to him, which goes to the question you just asked, is, dad, this is not a crutch to get me through the night. This is, which is another thing he'd like to say. I said, if anything, my Christian faith keeps me up at night because I want to serve God. I love him. I know I've got a purpose in his kingdom and that, you know, sorts of things. So we get into this, but he said, how do you know? Teasi Cannon (54:25) ⁓ R. L. Solberg (54:47) I know it's fun to believe or however you put it, kind of more dismissive, I think, than he intended, but how could you believe Teasi Cannon (54:49) Right. R. L. Solberg (54:55) in that? And what I explained to him is kind of the answer to your question is there's two things I fall back on. Because I said, Dad, I have all kinds of doubts. Why do you think I keep, using my earlier phrase, kicking on the load bearing walls? Because I'm building a new wing, but I better go downstairs and make sure everything's still good. So the load bearing walls of my faith, as I understand it, grounding it in Teasi Cannon (54:55) And what I explained to him is kind of the answer to your question. There's two things I fall back on. Because I said, Dad, I have all kinds of doubts. Why do you think I keep, to use my earlier phrase, kicking on the load-bearing walls? I'm building a new wing, but I better go downstairs and make sure everything's still good. So the load-bearing walls of my faith, as I understand it, grounding it in reality. Not a religious worldview, but the actual reality, the state of reality of everything. R. L. Solberg (55:16) reality, not not a religious worldview, but the actual reality, their state of reality of everything. I always do I always go back to two things if I'm stripping it all down. Number one, does God exist? And I and I am very convinced that God exists because the universe exists. So we can, you know, we all know this kind of arguments about why is there something rather than nothing? I love that philosophical question. So I'm able to get ⁓ a great deal of comfort in knowing Teasi Cannon (55:24) I always go back to two things if I'm stripping it all down. Number one, does God exist? And I'm very convinced that God exists because the universe exists. We all know this kind of argument about why is there something rather than nothing about that philosophical question. So I'm able to a great deal of comfort in knowing. R. L. Solberg (55:45) And now I can add to it my own experience, that God exists. Okay, so God does exist. Great. Okay, so we can at least have a deistic worldview, right? We understand there's supernatural. The second part of the two load-bearing walls is, was Jesus who he said he was? If God exists and Jesus was who he said he was, then we have the whole Bible as truth. So with Jesus, I just, there's, it's, Teasi Cannon (55:57) the two load bearing wall is, was Jesus who he said he was? If God exists and Jesus was who he said he was, then we have the whole Bible. Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (56:11) the to me the evidence because I've spent a lot of time going through it the evidence for the existence of not just the existence of Jesus, but the fact that even you know, unbelievers will believe that there's a guy named Jesus in the first century, but the fact that he was resurrected his resurrection not only validates everything he taught, not only brings in the entire Old Testament, but it actually puts like a like you dropping a pin on a map. gives us a specific time. Teasi Cannon (56:19) Right. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (56:39) in history on the timeline of history and it gives us a specific geographic location where an event happened. So it's not this abstract thing. It's an event in human history. And so I find a lot of comfort in those things. God exists and Jesus was resurrected. Those two things I can very confidently, even in my biggest doubts, I say, okay, all right, fine, that part's true. So that's what I kind of go back to. Those are my sort of load bearing walls. And so then when I move it forward and say, okay, well, God exists, but what kind of God is he? Teasi Cannon (56:50) I find a lot of comfort in those things. God exists and Jesus was resurrected. Those two things I can very comfortably, even in my biggest doubts, say, okay, all right, fine, that part's true. So that's what I kind of go back to. Those are my sort of load-bearing walls. And so then when I move it forward and say, okay, well, God exists, but what kind of God is he? Well, now I've... R. L. Solberg (57:08) Well, now I've accepted all of the Bible to tell me who God is because I believe in that. You know, and I'm not going to go into all the arguments now. I'm sure you've been through all those. But so both of those to me are very grounded in reality, evidentiary ⁓ explanations for the groundwork of the Christian faith. And from there, then you go into scripture and that starts guiding you and teaching you and the Holy Spirit's leading you and all those sorts of things. So that's kind of what I would go to. Teasi Cannon (57:10) accepted all of the Bible to tell me who died. Because I believe in that. I'm not going go into all the arguments, I'm sure you've been through all those. But some of those, to me, are very grounded in reality, evidentiary explanations for the groundwork of the Christian faith. And from there, then you go into Scripture, and that means that I even teach you and the Holy Spirit to meet in you and all those sorts of things. So that's kind what I would go to. Yeah, I'm right there with you. Those are the same. I have my evidences for the existence of God. and I have my evidence for who is God. And Jesus, it's the resurrection, know, Jesus. And it also then I think about, well, Jesus taught from the Old Testament and he said, you know, it is written and it helps me. It just goes from there, you know, where you can, but I think what's important for people to know, listeners to know is that this is a normal part of the Christian life, is suffering and doubt. R. L. Solberg (57:54) Yeah. Teasi Cannon (58:03) and God loved us enough to give us evidence. He is not expecting blind faith from us, especially when we're vulnerable to deception and despair, which is when our hearts are broken. And we have such a good God who loves us that much and invites us into a fellowship of suffering, not a punishment of suffering, which is what some false views would consider it when things are going wrong in our lives, some false R. L. Solberg (58:14) Ryan. Teasi Cannon (58:33) Gospels would say, you're not doing something right. You're sinning. You're not praying enough. All these things. But that's not what the Bible teaches. And so I, ⁓ you and I are totally, you know, on that same page there together in what... R. L. Solberg (58:36) Right. Yeah. Teasi Cannon (58:48) And then again comes back to how you can walk away from the uncertainty of knowing what happened with your father, but with certainty on who your heavenly father is and what his will would be and how he would still remain just and good in the midst of it. So I know those things might not feel. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (59:04) Amen. Teasi Cannon (59:11) exhaustive to people in like, you covered every base for me or, know, that makes it so much better. No, I'm not. Neither one of us are saying that it's still painful, but it is sufficient as a rope to cling to in the midst of walking through a situation like that. What God has given you is is is sufficient. R. L. Solberg (59:19) Right. Yeah, absolutely. Teasi Cannon (59:31) But so I know we've been chatting for a while and I don't wanna keep you too much longer, but as before we wrap up, is there any like thinking of anyone walking through a similar situation that you just described? Having a loved one who died, we don't know the state of their eternal existence or just anything that's on your heart as a final word of encouragement to hurting people. What would you like to say? R. L. Solberg (59:55) Yeah, I mean, for me, the big thing was the Psalms. And so they are such a source of ancient connection to the heart of God, because it's from a world that's different than ours, a culture that's ancient. All these things are different, yet the emotions you see being wrestled with are so real and they're the same things I'm feeling today in 2025. It's the same thing that they felt. And you see the beautiful Teasi Cannon (59:58) Mm-hmm. All these things are different, yet the emotions you see being wrestled with are so real. And there's the same things I'm feeling today in 2025. It's the same thing that they felt. And you see the beautiful picture. It's interesting because when you're first a Christian or when you're younger, most people would see it sort of as almost like a coloring book, right? You got your eight colors of your crayons and all that. And then as you get older, you start realizing it's this vibrant. R. L. Solberg (1:00:25) picture, it's interesting because when you're first a Christian or when you're younger, most people would see it sort of as a almost like a coloring book, right? You got your eight colors of your crayons and all that. And then as you get older, you start realizing it's this vibrant oil painting of millions of shades of colors and all these different nuances and aspects of real life. It becomes for me, it's become less abstract and mythical. Teasi Cannon (1:00:40) oil paint, millions of shades of colors and all these different nuances and aspects of real life. Right. It becomes for me, it's become less abstract and mythical and more concrete and real. Like this is a picture of real. This is a picture of the human heart. Yeah. And so when you can read through those songs, Psalm 16 is one of there's a I mean, there's lots of good but. R. L. Solberg (1:00:54) and more concrete and real. Like this is a picture of real. This is a picture of the human heart. And so when you can read through those Psalms, ⁓ Psalm 16 is one I love. ⁓ There's a I mean, there's lots of good ones. But if you read things like be still and know that I'm God, it's such a simple line. And you think, well, that's silly. But then if you try to actually be still and know that he's got no in your soul that he's got. Teasi Cannon (1:01:11) If you read things like, still and know that I'm God. It's such a simple line and you think, well, that's silly. But then if you try to actually be still and know that he's God, know in your soul that he's God. Not that there is a creator of the universe, know, first mover and all this stuff. No, I know in my soul that God. So when I was reading the Psalms, I felt like it was coming and meeting me in my heart where... R. L. Solberg (1:01:24) not admit that there is a creator of the universe, know, first mover and all this stuff. No, I know in my soul that there's a God. So when I was reading the Psalms, I felt like it was coming and meeting me in my heart where it's hard to describe it as a musician. This is what I would say when I compose things. Sometimes when I'm writing, I'm looking for a particular chord and I will mess around with the on the keyboard to find it needs more tension. needs more. Teasi Cannon (1:01:37) It's hard to describe, but as a musician, this is what I would say. When I compose things, sometimes when I'm writing, I'm looking for a particular chord. And I will mess around on the keyboard to find, no, that needs more tension, that needs more, you find, and there's a certain chord, when you find the right chord, it just resonates with you. you're oh, that's exactly what I R. L. Solberg (1:01:53) you find and there's a certain chord when you find the right chord, it just resonates with you. You're like, oh, that's exactly what I want to express here. I feel like the Psalms has so many of those chords that express and resonate with my soul about what God's doing in the disappointing times and the suffering times and all that. So I just get so much comfort from the Psalms. But of course, it needs to come from a place of, how do I want to say it? Giving the text the authority. Teasi Cannon (1:02:00) I feel like the Psalms has so many of those chords that express and resonate with my soul about what God's doing in the disappointing times, in the suffering times and all that. So I just get so much comfort from the Psalms. But of course it needs to come from a place of, I don't know, I'm say... Right ⁓ R. L. Solberg (1:02:23) rightfully deserves in your life. You know, it's not just some ancient piece of poetry. This is the Word of God. And so I'm going to bend my knee and understand it's telling me, it's reading me, it's teaching me about what God has to say when we're going through suffering, you know, and if nothing else, look at Jesus. What does that tell you? He didn't need to show up and humble himself even to the point of death on the cross, but he entered into our human dusty, bloody world and experienced it Teasi Cannon (1:02:51) Yeah. R. L. Solberg (1:02:51) right with us. Teasi Cannon (1:02:51) Right. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ R. L. Solberg (1:02:53) So there's so much comfort in scripture for that for me to put the real, to put skin on sort of your faith, to understand it as a real thing, because it can become difficult. And there's that time, I think, I'm sure it happens to everybody, where your faith switches from the thing I was told, the thing I've always believed, the way I just normally thought into, I'm accepting this as my own. This is real. Oh my goodness. You know, it's a whole other level. And so I think when you, when you reach the word of God will never return void, right? So if you lean into that text, I think that's where you're going to find you're going to meet God, the Holy Spirit can minister to you. That's what I would recommend. Teasi Cannon (1:03:31) I love that and I think that also just is why before we read scripture it's important to pray you know ask the Holy Spirit to apply it to our hearts and I think that's where that resonance you know comes in and I also find comfort in the Psalms because it shows that God can handle our mood swings at least minimally. love reading when David is like railing against God and then at the end, nevertheless, better is one day in your courts, you know, it's just this wonderful welcome into God's throne of grace. And I, I'm so thank you, Rob, so much for sharing your heart with us. Yeah. And, and for listeners, I will be including again in the show notes, I want, I want to direct people to your ministry. You have great interviews on in your podcast. R. L. Solberg (1:03:57) Never, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Teasi Cannon (1:04:19) and wonderful encouragement that goes into depth, especially in the beauty of the Old Testament. Also, I want to say if you're listening and you are encouraged or you know someone who needs this encouragement, I would love for you to share it with other hurting people and consider subscribing so that you don't miss a single moment of true comfort. Thank you all.