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Help for Angry Moms · The Connected Mom

• 0:00
  Hey friends. Welcome to the Connected Mom podcast where we have real conversations helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I have with me today my incredible co host, Sarah. Hey, Sarah. How are you?
• 0:27
  Hey, Becky. Super good. It's great to be here and I cannot wait for today's topic. We are going to learn so much together, so let's tell them what we're going to talk about.
• 0:35
  I know. So we've been waiting for a while to do this type of topic and I am so excited about it. So we're going to be talking a little bit about triggers and anger in parenthood. Those times where you're in a battle with your child and you find yourself getting angry and maybe saying things that you didn't intend to say or you're just frustrated and at a loss to know what to do. I realized, um, in looking back on the episodes we've done, Sarah, we've really never done one on Discipline, and I'm sure that's a hot topic and so today kind of goes into that a little bit. But I am super excited about our guest. So I met Amber Leah. Um, this fall, actually. We were both at a conference together and we were the two that would end up being at the Starbucks at 06:00 a.m. In the morning. So I instantly fell in love with Amber and knew we had to have her on here because she was my Starbucks buddy. But in addition to that, Amber is, uh, uh, just a best selling author. She's been interviewed on Focus on the Family, a whole bunch of other media outlets. She is kind of a big deal, guys. So you want to lean in and listen to her today. She's a coach, I believe you are coaching, right, Amber? Yeah. And she, uh, just brings an incredible message. And what we're going to talk to her about today is her book Triggers exchanging parents angry reactions for gentle biblical responses. And I know some of you out there listening have been praying like, lord, show me what to do next with my child because we're going head to head and that's not the way I want a parent. So if that's you lean in and listen today, grab a piece of paper because Amber is just going to bring it. So welcome, Amber.
• 2:46
  Thank you, Becky. Thank you, Sarah. I've only had one cup of coffee today, so I'm feeling a little bit behind. Feel m like I need another Starbucks run. If only I could run into you there again. This time that would be icing on the cake. But yes, I'm very delighted to be here. I've been looking forward to this for a while and this topic is near and dear to my heart and continues to be as I'm still on this parenting journey. So thank you both for having me.
• 3:12
  Hey, before we get into the topic, tell us a little bit about your family, because you are in the thick of raising kids right now.
• 3:21
  Yes, I have four amazing boys, and there are boys who will sit and color and be quiet. I've never seen them with my own eyes under my own roof.
• 3:33
  Yes.
• 3:34
  Um, I've heard that boys can be like that, but mine are not. I have four loud, wild, and crazy boys, and we call our home a testosterone for good reason. So that's what I'm living in. I do have a black Labrador named Rosie. She is the only other girl in the house, and so she and I are buds. But, um, my kids were actually fifth generation Californians, and my husband was a native Californian also. And we just about eight months ago moved our family across the country to Tennessee in the Chattanooga area. And we love it. We've been in the entertainment industry, my husband and I, for many years, and so that was kind of our Hollywood roots for a long time. But God showed us we don't need to be in California to do what we do, and we felt called to go somewhere else. We kind of don't know what we're doing here in Tennessee, but we're loving it and we're excited to see what God's going to do. Um, and then I'm a health coach too. I've been on a health journey, um, the last four or five years now. That's been a huge blessing and ministry in my life. And I was a home school mom for four years until we moved to Tennessee. So lots of change, lots of good stuff, and really just trying to help reach women and families that are navigating some of the things that I've navigated, um, especially when it comes to parenting. There's a lot of challenges there, but a lot of good things too. And so hopefully we'll get into a little bit of that.
• 5:04
  Yeah. So, Amber, I'm just so excited to have you here. I just love it. Okay. The title of your book, Triggers. A lot of the moms that are listening are like, what is she talking about? What exactly is a trigger? So talk to us about that first.
• 5:25
  M sure. So there's a number of different kinds of triggers, and my good friend Wendy Speak, another sweet author friend, she and I have written several books together, and when we were in our parenting journey early on, we both had very similar struggles with anger, frustration, and yelling in our home. And Wendy had come from a home that didn't have a lot of that growing up, and so it caught her off guard when she started being frustrated. I came from a home where there was a lot of chaos and anger and yelling, and I swore I would never do that. And so then that was surprising to me that here I was, breaking my own promises to myself. And so triggers are those things that set you off. They're the things that cause you to move toward, um, anger, frustration, yelling. They can be internal and external sometimes. It's just that we have a young one who keeps us up at night and we're exhausted, and so we have a short fuse. It could be things that are more, um, internal, like, uh, even our own marriage issues can be a trigger where then we have short capacity for our kids. It could be a messy house. It could be, um, battles with our own anxiety. There could be lots of different triggers. But most often it's those behavioral things that set us off, like our kids talking back to us or sibling rivalry. So Wendy and I have collabored for years, helping, uh, moms who struggle in this area based from what God did in, uh, us to transform us and have written books on the topic. And it's just been really neat to see God use our story and our vulnerability and transparency to hopefully help a whole generation of angry moms that we think, uh, is that there's really an epidemic of angry moms in our culture. And so we're hoping to give them some freedom from that guilt and also some practical tools to help them move toward more gentle biblical responses.
• 7:24
  Awesome. So, anger, you've identified that as a huge trigger. What really got you guys to write a book about that? I mean, I think a lot of us would be like, I don't want to talk about that.
• 7:37
  So what was the background?
• 7:39
  What really led you and Wendy to write it?
• 7:42
  Yeah, you're right, Sarah. Nobody wants to talk about or admit this. And so when I was, uh, a mom, I absolutely felt like I was going to be the best mom ever. I had been a teacher for many, many years. I never really lost my cool. I loved kids. I'd been a nanny before that. And so when I was going to have my own kids, I was going to be the best mom ever until I actually had the children. And then I realized, wow, I was wrong. Yes. And when Oliver, my oldest, was born, my boys are Front range now, from kindergarten to high school. So I've got kindergarten, elementary, middle school, and high school. But when Oliver was born, he was so beautiful. But he cried all the time because he had colic and he had reflux and I was exhausted. And then I had his little brother not soon after. And he was a handful. And I loved him, too. But I just remember feeling so defeated and discouraged that I felt like I didn't know what to do. For once in my life, I didn't feel capable. I didn't feel like I had a handle on things. And that was a trigger for me. And so I started asking the Lord because I just remember my husband leaving for work one day, and he was in his nice suit and tie, and he was leaving to go have adult time. And he shut the door, and there I was in my pajamas for, like, day three in a row. And I'm thinking, uh, I look at the house and it's messy, and I like things to be tidy. And I've got two little boys. And then I'd had a happy surprise third baby, uh, not long after my second was born. So I've got these three little boys, four and under, and I'm just thinking, man, this is not what I pictured life to be. And so I just remember saying to the Lord, I need help and I've got to change. I don't like operating from a place of chaos all the time in the aftermath of my triggers. And so I took this coveted time during nap time, and I started to just ask the Lord, give me just one verse at a time that I can meditate on to help me, because am I allowed to ever be angry, Lord? Am I ever allowed to be frustrated? Is there ever an opportunity for me to feel that way and not feel guilty about it? And what do I do about all of this? And he very lovingly transformed me over the course of a year and then continued to transform me even now. But I didn't want to talk about that. I think Satan likes to keep us in isolation, um, because then, um, we can't get the help that we need. And so that was me. I didn't want to tell anybody I had any struggles, and I didn't want anybody to know. Um, but I did have to get to a place where I had to confess it and tell my husband and tell a friend, look, this is an area I'm struggling with. I need you to pray for me. And with the power of that confession and the power of prayer from trusted friends and then digging into God's word, that's what really led me to change. So fast forward many years later, I started a mom blog and was writing, and I'd met my friend Wendy Speak. And I heard from, um, some of these other ladies that there was a need for moms who struggle with anger to do, like, a Facebook group and help support them. And I thought, I'm not doing that because I have already been down that road. I don't want to revisit it again. I don't want to air my dirty laundry. And then the opportunity kept coming up in front of me. You should start this group. You should start this group. So I just finally said, okay, Lord, I'll start this group, kind of reluctantly. And in the first week, 1000 women joined.
• 11:04
  Wow.
• 11:05
  And that was just word of mouth. And that's when I realized, oh, Amber, you're not the only one who struggles with this. Wouldn't you know it? And so I mean, it grew steadily. 10,000 17,000, it just grew to this enormous group. And so for about two years in there, I just was ministering to people. And eventually it got so big and overwhelming a bit that I just needed help. And so my sweet friend Wendy decided to join me in that group and we collabored together and a little ways into that journey, um, I said, Wendy, I think we should do a series on triggers, like specific ones. And so we started into that and about two weeks into that, um, the response was so overwhelming. And then the Lord was just waking me up at night and just said, amber, you got to put this in a book. You need to put this in a book. It needs to be out there. And Wendy and I had no, um, availability, really, practically speaking, to write a book right then. But we both said yes to the Lord and we wrote that book pretty quickly. And it became a number one bestseller the day it released. It was never even in a brick and mortar store. It was self published. It sold hundreds of thousands of copies. And that's kind of how our ministry started. And God has done amazing things with that. Um, and again, just the need is so high and it remains high and so we're excited to be able to help people. So that's how it all came to me.
• 12:23
  It's so crazy. And I have to say, I love what you said earlier. All of us thought we were going to be better parents before we had kids, right? We all thought we knew about parenting. And then you have kids and you realize, okay, I really don't know what I'm doing. And that does keep us on our knees. So I'm thankful for that in your book. I love how practical it is, Amber. So let's talk about some of these situations and what parents can do when they feel like they're just going to lose it. One of the things that you often see in homes is back talk, whether it's girls or boys. Really? I've seen both. What do you do with that kid that's back talking you and is flat out disrespectful and you feel your blood pressure rising and you're ready to throw the book at them or whatever? What do you do?
• 13:23
  Okay, so first of all, a little bit piece of it is mindset going into the back talk. So for example, um, a lot of times when I'm triggered by someone talking back to me, it's because I have this mindset of how dare they talk back to me?
• 13:37
  I'm their mom authority.
• 13:40
  I'm the mom. Yes. That power struggle. Like you don't get to talk back to me. And so it's really easy to say something nasty back when someone says something nasty to me. M, and that's my flesh. So I have to shift that and realize that whenever a child is sinning. If they're sinning, sometimes they're just immature. Sometimes they're not always sinning. It's not always rebellion, but whatever is triggering us, um, it's not a personal offense against me. It's a personal offense against God. And so when I remove myself from feeling like a victim in my parenting, I find a lot of freedom and authority to just love them well and point them in the right direction. Because every trigger is an opportunity and it's a signal. So when my child starts talking back, that's an opportunity for me to be refined in being patient and kind in the midst of my discipline and my response, my own gentle biblical response instead of an angry reaction. That's my personal development, spiritual growth opportunity. And it's an opportunity for me to coach my child, who obviously hasn't arrived yet, to spiritual maturity either. And I get to have empathy for them like, oh, look at that. My son, who is still not spiritually mature, still needs some coaching and training and loving consequences, perhaps because they haven't figured out yet the way that we talk to each other. And so now I have an opportunity to parent them instead of immediately getting my backup and being defensive and being angry and feeling like a victim and creating a cycle of anger and yelling and frustration with one another. I get to see, oh, there's a signal. There's some work for me to do. It's an opportunity for me to identify an area of growth both for me and for my child. And so now we can get all the nastiness out of the way and the anger and the frustration. We can just take a deep breath. Wendy and I like to call it a holy pause. Just breathe. Get our thoughts back, uh, into a biblical place and then say to I often say to my voice, hey buddy, could you try that again? Because we've already had the pre work of the conversation, of how we talk and how we can communicate. I'm going to listen to you. If you don't like something I'm doing, you don't need to get angry and talk back. Here's what you can say, hey mom, can we talk about that for a second? Because maybe you have some other information I wasn't aware of or maybe there's some other factor, but if you talk to me with respect, I'll be open to listening to you. M. So sometimes they forget that and all I have to say back to them is, could we try that again? And they know what that means. They take a breath, okay, mom, here's the situation. Or here's why, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I give them an opportunity. And then they know, though, that at the end of the day, what I say goes. But if we teach them how to talk to us in a respectful manner and we give them a chance, right? Because when you're in a coaching situation. You don't expect your player or your musician to perform at the championship level on day one. You give them opportunities to grow. You see what their weaknesses are, what their strengths are, and then you feed into those and you work with them very proactively and intentionally. And then there's a consequence or a reward when it's game time, right? So after I've done that, work with them of what's acceptable and a way to talk to me and what's not. And you can do that at any age. You can practice that outside of conflict at any age. And then, now we know it's game time. Now we know that we can just say to them, why don't you try that again? Let's try that again. Did you mean to say that differently?
• 17:24
  Yeah. So before we get to, um, internal triggers, sarah, let me just follow up with a question with Amber here, okay? That's for back talk. And now I'm thinking about the moms who have called me in the last few weeks and they're dealing with sibling rivalry with like, littles so they're like, well, we've talked so much in our home about kindness and how important that is. And then older brother is maybe picking on younger brother or older brother is saying unkind things to little sister. How do we parent that? Because I think that would be a trigger for some moms. You feel sorry for the one that's being picked on, so you're ready to let the older one have it. You could say some unkind things in that moment. So talk to us about sibling rivalry.
• 18:22
  Yes. So gentle biblical parenting is very proactive. It is not hands off, uh, parenting. And so what that means is we take the time in our home and it doesn't have to be this serious family meeting. It can be walking along the road, right as they come in and out of our door as we're sitting over meals. We can also make it intentional and they don't even know it. Right? Like, we're going to go get some frozen yogurt and over that frozen yogurt we're going to talk about something or say, hey, you know, guys, I've noticed that and you can do this at, again, young age or as teenagers. Um, I'm noticing that when we talk to each other, we're not always as kind as we could be. M. And so I would love for us to make that something that we work on together. Let's work on being kind. And depending on the age and stage of your kids, our boys know that one of our family values, which is one of the things that we talk about at times like these, is that we outdo, uh, one another in showing honor because that's what scripture tells us to do. To outdo one another in brotherly love and in showing honor. And so I'd ask him, what do you think that means? What do you think it means in our conversations when your brother does something that you don't like or your sister does something that bothers you or annoys you, what would be a way to outdo them in showing honor and brotherly love?
• 19:43
  I love that.
• 19:43
  And we talk about that. What does that look like? And then we even practice it. Okay. I noticed that one of the times that we have a lot of sibling rivalry in our house is when you think it's your turn to be on the computer. But this kid thinks it's his turn to be on the computer. So maybe it's just me as the mom needing to get practical and get a little more organized and communicate a better system. But when that sibling rivalry pops up, we can role play that. Okay, Quinn, it's your turn on the computer. Oakley, you want to be on the computer and you guys start arguing. Um, okay. And then take a breath until how could you have said that differently to each other? Let's figure this out. What plan are we going to put in place when someone's in the place that you think you're supposed to be and how can you actually outdo them and showing honor? We actually will role play that together. We will do the proactive practice beforehand instead of always just punishing in the aftermath of chaos and disciplining. And it not getting anywhere. Why are we not being more proactive to take a minute and look at what are the common conflicts our kids are having and how can we engage them in finding a different path forward in our words and our actions and in why we're doing that? Because of our faith and our commitment to the Lord and wanting to live it out. We shouldn't save these lessons for adulthood. They've been given to us for us to play them out now.
• 21:04
  That's true. Good.
• 21:06
  Yeah.
• 21:06
  Thank you. Okay, so your book, by the way, I'm going to order it right after we're done because this is so where my dad is so excited as a fellow boy mom, I'm like, how did she read my mind? This is awesome. But some of the triggers, too, um, were reminded are internal. And I was thinking, like, well, probably the reason so many of us aren't quite the mom we thought we'd be is it does bring up stuff maybe from our past right. Or generational habits that we saw exhibited in our parents as much as they were trying. Right. So can you talk about internal triggers and maybe how that affects how we're parenting?
• 21:48
  Absolutely. Yes. Man, it's so hard because so many of our patterns are long standing. Right. And when you're talking about generational things, like, for me doing and saying the things I swore I'd never do and never say, it was, like, gut wrenching for me to be so disappointed in myself. And so one thing I will say is that, um, satan will always try to condemn us, but God will only lovingly convict you. And there's a difference between that condemnation and that conviction. And the loving conviction will catapult us in the right direction toward growth. So Psalm 51 talks. It says, Create in me a clean heart, O Lord, renew a right spirit within me. And so I love that prayer. I think it's a really solid one for us as moms that are in the trenches. It's like, okay, Lord, I didn't handle that the way I wanted to. Create in me a clean heart, renew a right spirit within me. And then we have to really believe that when he says that he'll do that, that he will, that the Lord will follow through and be open to that. But also, when something's been, uh, a battle for a long time, an internal struggle, an internal pattern or behavior or even some kind of a stronghold in our family generationally, it's so important to cling to the truth that there is no generational sin that is a match for the God of all generations. And we have got to stop thinking that we can't have victory in these areas. We do need to put a better plan in place. We say, figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean.
• 23:28
  I love that. Say that again, Amber.
• 23:30
  Yeah, uh, repeat.
• 23:32
  Figure out what you mean to say. Figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean. Wendy and I talk about that a lot. In fact, our second book, um, Parenting Scripts, is all about that. It's all about specific things you can say that are wounds to breathe life instead of words that wound. And so we have to really remember that God can give us a better plan. He will give you wisdom, generously when you ask for it without finding fault. The Lord will allow you to have a new spirit within you and trust his power and have faith that he's going to do a new thing. But don't get overwhelmed. I tell people, just take one trigger at a time. Take one area of refinement that you'd like the Lord to work on at a time and sit with that one for as long as it takes. I would ask the Lord, I had trouble just like immediately speaking when I was frustrated or angry. And Proverbs 20 911 says, a fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back. So that was my one verse. It was on my lock screen, on my phone. It was over the, um, kitchen sink where I was washing dishes. It was on a three x five card stuck to my steering wheel as long as it took for me to start to learn. Okay, Amber, just breathe. Take 4 seconds to breathe in, 4 seconds to hold it. 4 seconds to breathe out, 4 seconds to hold it. Do a box breath and don't just immediately give full vent to your spirit. So whatever the things are, just put a better plan in place. It doesn't have to be complicated. Take one thing at a time and trust that God is who he says he is, that he's going to help you and give you everything you need for life.
• 25:07
  And Godliness one of the triggers you talk about, that's an internal trigger. Trigger, um, actually two. And they're kind of related. So I kind of want to hit both together over scheduling and exhaustion. Just this week, I heard from somebody who is absolutely exhausted. They can barely parent through the day. Um, and they have an infant. So there's that. But then there's the whole issue of over scheduling. We're American, so we like to take the world by storm. And, uh, how does all that play out in family life? And how do we parent with a gentle spirit when we are exhausted and when we are stressed out because we have too much to do?
• 26:05
  Well, I think as moms especially, we get really good at compartmentalizing until we're not good at compartmentalizing anymore. So we just go from one thing to the next to the next to the next, and then it all becomes too much and then we explore. Right? So we're just exhausted and over scheduled, as you said. So one thing I've learned is that I can be exhausted and still be a good mom. I can do the good.
• 26:31
  What does that look like?
• 26:34
  Okay, well, it looks like just saying, lord, I'm so tired. But then relying on his strength. Like, I always have in the forefront of my mind when I'm weak. Okay, this is when I'm strong.
• 26:48
  HM.
• 26:48
  Because I have to rely on God's strength right now, I cannot do it. So if you're feeling overwhelmed and like, it's all too much, it's probably because it is. And m. So just go to that place where you say, okay, Lord, I'm exhausted. This has been like, two months of this baby not sleeping or this toddler facing this issue, and I'm just weary. I may not be like, sleepy tired, but I might actually just be weary from all of the things. And so just really getting to a place where, you know, I know it's exhausting. There may not be any foreseeable change to alleviate that right now, but we can still do the good parenting. We really still can rely on the Lord's strength in any season, in every situation and circumstance. Don't feel like everything has to change for God to change you and to help you. That said, get lean in your schedule. Like, if your schedule is too full, um, you might need to say no to some things. You might need to outsource and get some help. Um, don't feel like you have to be super parent and do everything yourself.
• 27:53
  Yeah, there's so much I want to comment on in that. Just what. You just said, because it's so good. Amber and recently, my husband and I, um, were taking care of five of our grandsons. Um, two of them are two and a half year old twins, um, so the kids could get away. And I know that I do really well if I can sleep. And I know that two and a half year old twins don't always sleep, especially with mom and dad out of town. But as I went into that, I just kept saying, lord, these are moments that I don't want to lose these moments because they're so precious. So fill me with your strength. And then sometimes I think, okay, people during World War II had horrific circumstances. They were hiding in parts of Europe. And it's like, okay, Lord, you strengthened them. Strengthen me now for this now. Not to say we can't make adaptations like you suggested. Sometimes we need to look at our schedules, because sometimes when you look at it, it's like, okay, wow. I didn't realize everything I had scheduled. I need to make some adjustments. Outsourcing. I love that. My one daughter has four kids, and during COVID she had to home school for a little while. So she said, well, mom, my plan is we're just going to outsource. So she's like, you're in charge of all the writing and the reading. I'll do this. Dave's going to do the math. Smart girl. That's kind of funny. But I think sometimes, as moms, our temptation is to try to do it all. Certainly that was my temptation when we had our kids all home. I wanted to be that superwoman. I wanted to be the perfect mom. I never wanted to get angry. So when my fuse got short, I knew it was a signal, like what you're saying, like, okay, Lord, I need to analyze. What do I need to say no to right now? What do I need to adjust? How do I need to help the kids sleep better so that I can sleep better and just kind of asking some of those questions. Amber uh, we could have you on for, like, another 2 hours. We definitely have to have you back because I know that moms are thinking, wait, this was too short. I want to ask about this, or I want to ask about that. But I think this was so good. One of the statements you make and I love this so much, sarah um, we'll put this in the show notes. Figure out what you mean to say before you say something mean. And I think that idea of pre thinking, okay, this child's going to come home from school. I know they're stressed out because they had a lot of tests. They're not going to want to sit down and do homework. I need to think of a plan, pre thinking it. And then really, I would add to that. Have the pre conversation. If, you know, you're headed into dinner at somebody's house, by all means, have the pre conversation. Okay, here's what's going to go down. Here's the way we need to behave at dinner. And then offer a reward. Nothing wrong with the reward. If you guys make it through dinner, we can get ice cream after, or we can do this, that, or the other thing, but those conversations are huge. And then pulling your child aside that's been mouthy or defiant and going for a quiet walk and saying, hey, I've noticed that we're going head to head. What do you think we need to do about that? And really inviting their opinion, because a lot of times they have a lot more wisdom about what's really going on than we might give them credit for. And then another thing that you said, Amber, is just about using Scripture. Mamas, I can't stress this enough. You cannot renew your mind without the word of God. So if you need the reminders, and we all do, write them on index cards, write them on post it notes, put them on your mirror, put them on your computer, remind yourself, this is who I want to be in Jesus Christ. And ask the Holy Spirit to fill you. Hey, Amber, as we close, would you just pray for our mamas? Because I know some of them after hearing this, are like, oh, man, I got a lot of work to do. M. So would you just pray for them, be honored?
• 32:48
  Yes, please. Let's do. Heavenly Father, um, I thank you so much for this time with Sarah and Becky. And Lord, just every listener that is hearing these words and feeling maybe some loving conviction from You, Lord, just encourage our hearts to know that you do not condemn us, that we can meet you right at the foot of the cross and leave all our triggers there with You, Lord, that you love us unconditionally. You are a good father to us as moms, and that we don't need to carry the weight of parenting on our own shoulders. That you have given us so much wisdom, Lord, and that you will help us, lord, would you just, um, give us opportunities that we rise to the occasion when we're triggered to really examine our own hearts, to be open to being refined, Lord, that we don't have to be perfect, but we can be perfected by your Holy Spirit in our lives. And so, Lord, help us to be willing. Help us to, um, apologize when we need to. Help us to be humble as parents. Help us to be filled with Your wisdom as we seek, Lord. Because these children are precious gifts, Lord, their lives matter. And every moment, every interaction we have with them is something that can, um, be a blessing for eternal purposes, both for us and for them. And so, Lord, would you turn us into the parents that you want us to be? Help us, Lord, to cling to the truth of what is right and good. And, Lord, I just pray encouragement in every heart. In Jesus's name, precious name, we pray. Amen.
• 34:23
  Amen. Hey, Amber, thank you so much for joining us. This was incredible. And, hey, friends, I want to invite you to join us next week for another episode of the Connected Mom podcast. And, hey, if you're enjoying this podcast, would you be so kind as to share it with some of your friends, maybe listen to an episode together and then talk about it? Because as we process together as moms, we realize that we're not isolated in our battles. And so join us next week again, as we'll have another conversation about helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. Until next time, this is us saying goodbye. Goodbye, ladies.