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STSE #59: Dog Relationships · Sometimes There's Side Eye

0:12
Welcome to Sometimes Their Side Eye, a podcast about two friends
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having real and unfiltered conversations about dogs and
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people. Listen as we talk about our
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lives with dogs, training, behavior, share some laughs and
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a whole lot of banter. I'm Heather.
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And I'm Christy. What are we talking about this
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week, Christy? We.
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Are talking about dog relationships and and how they
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vary between dogs and it. Just so happens we just had a
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big old play group at my house so this is going to be fresh on
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our brains. Yeah, I think this came up
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originally in my brain to do this episode when I was dog
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sitting Tater and Tran with Jackson.
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And I watched how all three of them interacted with each other
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individually and together. And I thought, man, they all
1:08
have very different relationships with each other
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and it's the same dogs. But Trin and Tater have a very
1:15
different relationship than Trin and Jackson, and Jackson and
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Tater have a very different relationship than Trin and
1:23
Jackson. And Trin is different when she
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is there with Jackson on her own where when Tater is not in the
1:30
dynamic. Yeah, that's very true.
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Yeah, and then we had a little play group at my house two
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weekends ago. And who did we have?
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We had Tater, Trin, Tiago, our friends Stafford, Frankie and
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Jackson. And our friends knew her to her
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puppy who is about 8 months old. And we?
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And she's a healer. Healer Pit mix is what he's said
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to me. I have my reservations and
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really hope she does a DNA test. So we're watching all of them
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interact and I feel like, oh, I'm going to shoot myself in the
2:16
foot here. I feel like Christy and I are
2:18
really good at putting together play groups and understanding
2:23
what we expect to happen and then managing them if things go
2:29
off the rails. Because Ducks, Yeah.
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So how we? Have a bit of experience in that
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of of organizing play groups, of watching for signs that things
2:39
are going to help. Yeah.
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And, and generally, if one of us feels that things are going off
2:45
the rails, the other one's feeling it too.
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And we're sort of going in slow motion, like, no, oh.
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So this one we set up and I put all of my dogs away and Jackson
3:01
arrived with Bruce to my house. Frankie was already here and so
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we had the three of them and Frankie is like a super duper
3:12
player, but like she's never. She is such a soft sweetheart.
3:17
Like she's a hard player, but she's a sweetheart.
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And I've seen her because she's around the same age as Trend.
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She'll be two in November. I have seen her mature a lot and
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come so far in understanding that overwhelming a new dog
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maybe not the way to go. And so I felt good about her
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already being here. So we sort of let Bruce and
3:42
Jackson in, and Frankie's already in the yard.
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She's very comfortable here. We're dragging leashes and off
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we go. And Bruce and Jackson know each
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other. Yes, they've played together a
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couple times before. At your house, right at her.
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House, yes, OK. So Frankie did a great job of
4:02
sort of giving Bruce space and like letting him kind of
4:05
acclimate. He's smelling the yard.
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Whatever. Do you feel like Bruce and
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Jackson interacted in the same way at my yard as they would as
4:14
they have in your yard? Yes, there was more intensity,
4:20
but it was it was their play, just.
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Plus, yes, do you think like I would say that that could be
4:30
because it is their third time meeting, right?
4:33
Yeah, right. And Bruce is growing up some
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more, he's getting bigger, yeah. So there could be other, there
4:38
could be factors in that. Yeah.
4:40
And I think there was a lot of energy in the group as well.
4:44
Yeah. And I think they brought that,
4:45
yeah. Yeah.
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So then who did we add next? Tiago.
4:50
No, Trin, we added Trin. OK, so we added Trin because
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Trin and Frankie's are besties. Frankie's, Frankie's the girl,
5:00
Trent and Frankie are besties and we assumed that the girls
5:06
would sort of go off and do their thing and the boys would
5:10
sort of be doing their thing. I kind of assumed that Jackson
5:16
would be with the girls because he loves Trent.
5:19
Interesting. So I thought he would be
5:22
dividing time between the girls and and Bruce, and then I
5:27
thought Bruce would just be up in everything.
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Sort of all up in it because he has a lot of energy.
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He's an 8 month old puppy. Yeah, he's.
5:34
Exploring the world. He's learning, yeah.
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And it didn't really go that way.
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No no, the boys were super amped and like vocal and crazy.
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Jackson's like obsessed with Bruce, yes, in a way I have not
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seen him be obsessed with other dogs.
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And their play was interesting in there was a lot of
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maneuvering each other, controlling each other's
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movements in a fun way. Like they both seem to be
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enjoying their thumbs, Chris. Kept coming back for more.
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Yeah, we were very worried because it was.
6:14
Loud. We were worried because, yes,
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Jackson is very loud and he was getting more and more loud.
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And if you have ever experienced dog fights in person there,
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there's a moment that, like, really gets your heart like it's
6:33
about to happen. And he makes those noises, and
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we're pretty benign. And I don't even know if he
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knows he's making them. He just screams.
6:43
Yeah. It's.
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It's my least favorite thing about him to be honest.
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Well, and it was interesting because, OK, so we had four
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adults there. Three of us have experienced
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pretty, pretty serious dogfights and two of us, myself and
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Christina, have had dogfights amongst our our personal dogs,
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right. So we got a bit of PTSD
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situation there. And then Bruce's owner had an
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extremely reactive dog and she so all of us are like triggered
7:15
by these noises. That they're like.
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Making and we're all sort of like trying not to overreact
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because you don't you don't want to intervene if there's no
7:25
reason to intervene. But we also like are triggered
7:29
and not wanting it to tip. Right.
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Yeah, so that was very interesting.
7:34
In the beginning it calmed down, then things came down a notch,
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but the but it was a bit of frenzied play, shall you say?
7:43
In the beginning, that's a good way to put it.
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Yeah, so then Jackson was just obsessed with Bruce and the
7:49
girls were. The girls weren't even really
7:50
playing together. They were just sort of like, I
7:53
mean, it didn't go the way I expected it to go.
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No, it was just a Bruce and Jackson play date.
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Yeah, pretty. Much.
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And Jackson loves Trin, and so I was surprised he was not after
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he had some time with Bruce, that he wasn't like, OK, let's
8:13
let me go see my best. Yeah, yeah, because Trent spends
8:16
a lot of time with you guys. So for them to just sort of
8:19
ignore each other, it was very interesting.
8:22
It like hurt my feelings a little bit.
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Let me know you go say hi to your friend.
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The bitches got no play. They were just like, oh, on
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their own they were fine. They were meandering about doing
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whatever they do. And then we brought Thiago out
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and OK, so I said from the get, I was like Thiago is totally
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going to haul monitor at this situation.
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He is going to go right in between Bruce and Jackson and he
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is going to dictate you're doing too much.
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He is totally going to do. He's not wrong.
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Jackson was doing too much. And he did exactly what I
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expected him to do. Yeah.
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And then he did the thing that I see him do when he has
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determined that dogs are being too much.
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But he did not do it to Jackson. He did it to Bruce.
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If you think about it, he was not doing the over the back
9:22
thing to Jackson, did he? I think he did once or twice.
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But I remember him doing it to. Bruce.
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Bruce. Yeah, 'cause then I asked you
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about it. Yeah.
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Yeah, OK. So Tiago does OK terms, right?
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So people would watch this, Some people watch this of a certain
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school of thought. I'd be like, he's being
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dominant. He will come in, he will
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separate the dogs and then he puts his chin over the shoulder
9:51
of a dog that he wants to like tamp down, so to speak.
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And what I see it as more of almost like a Herdie kind of
10:01
move, which Rottweilers do herd in their background.
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So because sometimes he will also like nip at a dog's
10:09
shoulder blades kind of, which is like a very Herdie type of
10:12
behavior. And so that's what he was doing
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to Bruce, which I find very interesting.
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He knows Jackson, and I think if Jackson was the only boy there,
10:20
he would have done it to Jackson because we've seen him do it to
10:23
Jackson in the past, right? But he chose to do it to the
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youngest male dog that was there who was also being vocal.
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And he does. That, yeah.
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And he does not do that move at all to either of his housemates,
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which is very interesting. Yeah, that is interesting.
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Do you think that's because he has a balance, not balanced a
10:52
understood relationship with his housemates?
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Yeah, I do. But I also, I mean, I do
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remember him and it was 100% play.
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He wasn't trying to amp Lucy down, but one of our play dates
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he he put his arm over top of her.
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Yes. And Heather was a little like,
11:15
hey, like, that's probably too much.
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And she loved it. She did not care at all.
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And then he put her whole head in his mouth and it wasn't an
11:26
amping down. But what's interesting is this
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time it was. Yes, when we.
11:32
Did it to the boys. It was definitely like a hey,
11:35
let's bring it down a notch. Yeah.
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Like you would almost like you would come and put your hand as
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an adult on the shoulder of a child.
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Yes. And be like, hey, it's time to
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bring it down a notch. Yeah, totally.
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That's totally what it looks like.
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That's so funny. But I do think it's like I'm
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just sitting here kind of thinking through how it went and
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I'm like, yeah, he doesn't do that shit to his housemates.
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But then I think too, when you have an understanding with
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somebody you really know well, you can be less and them
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understand. So like he doesn't have to be
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extra for them because he can just give a trend and be like a
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look at trend. Like bitch.
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And she's like, OK. Yeah, it's like when your
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friend, like, tries to steal a fry off your plate and you're so
12:25
hungry and you, like, give a dirty look and you've been
12:28
friends for 15 years, and it's like, oh, that fry is not up for
12:31
grabs. OK, I found it.
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You don't have to smack their hand.
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All you have to do is use your eyes.
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Yeah, or you think someone else is being ridiculous and you have
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a whole conversation with your eyes to your friend.
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Yeah, totally, totally. OK, so that was that and then we
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let we did decide to let tater out this time.
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Why did we decide it was OK this time to bring tater out when we.
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Well, he's been out with all of those dogs other than Bruce.
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True, Bruce was the only wild card this time.
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Yeah, and Bruce and Jackson were so infatuated with each other.
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And I also found it really interesting that Bulldog did not
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hump either of those boys and he humps everybody.
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Oh that is interesting, I hadn't thought about that.
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Well, I have a theory on Bruce which would be his height.
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OK height for Bruce but I don't think he humps.
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Jackson he does. Not at my house.
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Oh, right. Because remember you were
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telling me when Tater and Trin were at your house, they Trin
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was like trying to get away from Tater humping her and.
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But he wasn't humping Jackson, right?
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Yeah. And so that that changed the
13:50
dynamic when Tater is over, because if Trin and Jackson get
13:55
going, Tater comes and humps Trin and then Trin shuts down.
14:00
Yeah, she's like, I don't want that.
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Yeah, so then Jackson's like, well, if you're not going to
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play it like I'll play with the Bulldog and the Bulldog will
14:08
play with him. He's all for it.
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Yeah. You know what's really
14:12
interesting about that? The whole humping thing, that
14:17
when the three of our dogs play together, Tater will hump Trin.
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And she does. She literally, it's like it's
14:25
not happening. She just keeps playing with
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Thiago. Yeah, she isn't that.
14:32
She don't have no part of it at my house.
14:35
That is wild. Yeah.
14:38
I wonder why that is. What?
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Why in a different environment would humping make her shut
14:46
down? Not that hump, OK, we're not
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saying humping is OK or like the Bulldogs ridiculous OK.
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But like, why in one environment would that make her shut down
14:57
and in another environment she just ignores it like it's not
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happening and keeps on playing? Yeah, I don't know, Does she?
15:03
Play do tater or sorry. Do Jackson and Trin just play
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bitey face like in one position or are they more like?
15:13
That one. That could be it, because Tiago
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and Trin will play Bitey face in a stationary position like quite
15:20
a bit, and so she can just be like bitey face with him and
15:24
tater's like attached to her rear and she's like, whatever,
15:27
I'm still playing. No, they like to run around.
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A lot, yeah, Yeah. Although if it's just the two of
15:36
them, they will play bitey face on the.
15:38
Couch. Yeah, that's.
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True no matter where I sit. 'Cause there's nowhere to run.
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I've seen those pictures. Yeah, no matter.
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Where I sit on that couch, they find me.
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So we had a 566 dog situation and saw different dynamics
16:01
between each dog, each little group, the overall group that
16:06
are completely different than how those dogs interact with
16:11
other dogs and each other in other environments.
16:14
Yeah. I find that fascinating.
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It is, and what's funny is we commented that Tiago and and
16:23
Jackson are periphery. Friends 100%.
16:29
That they're friends because their group of friends is
16:32
friends. Yes, they, they, what do we say?
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They're like adjacent acquaintances.
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Yes, yes. Isn't totally.
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Yeah. Like, they get along fine.
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I could dog sit Thiago over here.
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There would be no problems. They like each other fine, but
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they're not. They're never gonna be like,
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hey, you know who I'd like a play date with?
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That guy. Like, they're never gonna go
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and, like, hang out together one-on-one and, like, like, go
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to the movies. Like, it's just not going to
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happen. They have to have another friend
17:03
binding them together. Yeah.
17:06
And. What I think is interesting is a
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Tiago is literally one of Lucy's very favorite dogs in the whole
17:13
world. And I can't really express,
17:16
like, how special their relationship was, but they would
17:20
trot off together, and then they'd, like, go and find
17:23
smells, and they would come back to get the other dog to share a
17:28
smell, like, hey, come over here and smell this cool thing with
17:32
me. Yeah.
17:33
And you just don't see that in a lot of dog relationships.
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In fact, I don't think I've ever really seen that before.
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Do you think we romanticize it? No, I think that's, I think
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that's literally what happens later happened with those two.
17:50
Like they 'cause I didn't see her do it with any other dogs
17:53
either. Like it was only Tiago that
17:56
they'd pal around and she loved Tater, but she would never be
18:00
like, hey Tater, come smell this smell with me.
18:03
She was like Tater. I'm gonna get my best tater
18:05
would put her his freaking nose in it, and then if she came over
18:08
to check it out, he'd be like. No tater would be like, did you?
18:14
Did you want me to help you now? Is that what we're doing?
18:17
I mean, one or the other, you never know what you're going to
18:19
get with the bulldog, you know. And it's interesting too.
18:23
Like I was just kind of sitting here thinking about us saying
18:26
like Jackson and Thiago are periphery friends and I'm like,
18:29
is that the boy dog thing? No.
18:32
Is that a. So then I'm like, OK, is it a
18:37
size thing? No.
18:39
Is that a breed, predominant breed because Jackson
18:44
predominantly shepherd and I'm like, well, I can't say that
18:49
Tiago has ever had a boy shepherd friend because I don't
18:53
really have friends who have boy shepherds.
18:55
So I can't say that, but I'm going to say.
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Friends with boy shepherds. I have friends who have boy
19:01
shepherds, but none that have been like, hey, does Tiago want
19:05
to have a play date? How's that?
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Yeah. So I can't really say there's
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any, it's just their two personalities are just not
19:15
besties. Yeah, and what's funny is I I
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see a lot of Lucy in Jackson from time to time, like little
19:24
things that he does. I'm like, oh, that that's like
19:27
what Lucy did and it and it's so nice to see those things.
19:30
But I also often think, I don't think Lucy and you would be
19:35
friends. Yeah, I.
19:36
Think she would put you in your place and like be like hey, you
19:41
need to calm down. I don't like them screaming.
19:44
I don't think Trenton and Lucy would have worked, Yeah.
19:48
Not well, not well, Not more so than Jackson.
19:51
But you're right, probably. Yeah, like.
19:54
They wouldn't have been besties for sure.
19:58
I mean the bulldog and Lucy got along fine and he is noisy and
20:03
crazy so. Yeah, but Trent's, it's
20:05
different energy for sure. It is different.
20:09
Yeah, it's, it's just, I don't know, it, it's something to sit
20:12
back and think about. And, and when I, you know, I
20:16
always kind of think, oh, when we want to talk about something,
20:20
I relate it to how could this be helpful to people?
20:22
Or like, why do we want to talk about this and just go on a
20:27
little journey about a certain subject and have people listen
20:31
to us talk about it. And in this case, I think it's,
20:34
it comes back to the dogs or individuals thing.
20:37
And just because, OK, I don't think every dog is social like
20:41
that's not a thing, right? And I certainly don't think that
20:46
I I think that a lot of dogs change as they age, right?
20:50
Tater is much more sensitive, like as he's gotten older,
20:53
whatever. But I would say that if your dog
21:00
does not mesh with a certain dog, I would pay attention to
21:06
that other dog's energy, who they are and how they interact.
21:11
And then maybe if you're going to try it again, try it with a
21:15
dog who has a different energy and a different way of
21:19
interacting. But also don't assume that how
21:23
your dog is with one one dog is how they're going to be with
21:27
another dog. Absolutely, yeah.
21:30
I would 100% agree with that. I also I remember when I was
21:36
really doing a lot of fostering people would tell me oh we don't
21:40
really need to do a meet and greet with your foster because
21:43
my dog loves all dogs and I now own the dog who loves all dogs.
21:50
But I also think there would be better fits.
21:54
Fits are probably better than others.
21:57
And you could do. It with any dog but.
22:02
But are we asking something fair?
22:04
Yeah, and that's a, that's a big commitment.
22:07
Like he doesn't get to say if if this other dog moves in.
22:11
Yeah, yeah. So say you bring in a dog for
22:16
like a foster to adopt and your dog and that dog just don't
22:19
vibe. While I think that feedback is
22:22
incredibly important and obviously aggression is
22:25
aggression. Like we don't want unsafe,
22:27
right, of course, but but sometimes it's just a matter of
22:32
getting that right mixed together.
22:34
And and that dog might be not be right for you and your dog, but
22:38
there's another dog that it they could be like perfectly
22:42
harmonious with, you know, so the feedback is important, but
22:46
maybe feedback more like instead of they didn't get along, maybe
22:51
more like, well, their energy didn't match.
22:55
Or my dog likes to really run and sort of play that way.
23:02
And this dog seemed to want to play in place or my dog really
23:06
likes rough and rowdy. And this dog was more like a
23:09
herding type behavior, you know, more information than just they
23:12
didn't get along. Yeah, and what is funny is I
23:17
would say Lucy's favorite play style was the rough and rowdy,
23:22
like slam bodies into each other, like be insane.
23:26
But she really didn't play that way with Thiago.
23:29
Yeah, I mean, I think they had rowdy times, but that's not that
23:33
was not their. Primary.
23:34
Play style. Like they had more of like a
23:37
push pull like chase each other have fun, play with toys me and
23:42
Lucy was the master of implementing toys to get dogs to
23:46
play with her like she wanted other dogs to pull her around
23:50
she would lay on her bed and then make other dogs pull her
23:53
around the. House.
23:54
Yeah, and Tiago's the one who, when there's a puppy here and
23:59
they're shy, he'll pick up a toy and throw it to them.
24:03
Yeah. And so just because maybe even
24:07
that primary, their preferred play method is not being met in
24:12
that other dog, it doesn't mean that that's not a perfect match
24:15
either. Because obviously they had rough
24:18
and rowdy play sessions, but that wasn't who they were
24:22
together. And yet I would say he was
24:25
probably her favorite dog, you know?
24:28
Yeah. So that's something to keep in
24:30
mind for sure. Gosh, I just love, I love the, I
24:35
just love watching the play and watching the interactions and
24:39
watching the little things and the nuances and, and the oh
24:44
gosh, I love it all. It's so, so cool to me.
24:47
It is one other thing I would say is if your dog is that solid
24:53
dog that people are like, hey, I really want a safe dog, to bring
24:57
my dog and do safe interactions, that's great.
25:01
That's such a service. I can't even tell you how
25:05
wonderful that is to know there's safe dogs out there.
25:09
But if your dog isn't enjoying it, it's OK to say no on their
25:14
behalf. Absolutely.
25:16
Absolutely. Of people who, who are like, I
25:20
don't think my dog enjoys this, but they are never going to act
25:24
out or be mean to a puppy or whatever.
25:27
So I let the, you know, people come over and with my dog for
25:31
these interactions. It's OK to, if your dog's not
25:34
feeling it, it's OK to be like, oh, you know what, We're not
25:37
doing that anymore. You know, as my dog ages, I'm
25:41
limiting that. And that's where I am with
25:43
Thiago. I mean, I do limit, you know,
25:46
his interactions because of his, his age and keeping his
25:50
orthopedic health in mind, shall we say, because he can't keep up
25:54
like he used to, even though he does it anyway.
25:57
And I totally agree with you, no matter the age of the dog, you
26:01
know, if you do not and if you go into it and you realize 3
26:07
minutes in or 10 minutes in. Oh, I'm not sure that my dog is
26:13
enjoying this. Trust your gut and say, you know
26:17
what? I don't think they're into it
26:18
today. We're I'm, we're just going to
26:20
go home. That's OK.
26:23
Yeah, absolutely easy way to advocate for your dog.
26:28
I agree. So the moral of the story, I
26:32
suppose, is that dogs, like people, have different
26:38
relationships within their dog community and and that's OK.
26:44
And that should be celebrated. Yeah.
26:47
And there's nothing wrong with a dog who has select friends or
26:52
lots of friends. There's there's social, there's
26:55
social butterflies and there's introverts.
26:58
There are everything in between, just like in the human world.
27:02
And I think it's great when you can just find dog friends that
27:07
mesh with your dog. Right.
27:10
And, and how whatever however your dog feel is feeling that
27:14
day or in that Little Mix, if you're trying something new,
27:19
just you can honor whatever you feel like is right for your dog
27:22
because you know them best and, and that's totally fine.
27:27
Yeah. So go have fun reading dog
27:30
behavior, yeah? Oh I was just going to say dog
27:35
friendships also don't always have to be play.
27:38
Oh, that's so true. So I know that Jackson and my
27:44
best friend Michelle's dog are not good off leash playing
27:48
together. Macy doesn't enjoy him and
27:50
that's OK. He's a lot.
27:51
I get at Macy that makes sense, but they are getting very used
27:57
to going on walks together and she doesn't react to him at all
28:04
on walks anymore. They're able to walk side by
28:06
side and that's also how we built that relationship with my
28:09
brother's. Dog.
28:11
Is those walks and and being able to build it from there and
28:15
now they can be off leash and and play some.
28:18
But just because your dog isn't a dog that enjoys off leash time
28:24
doesn't mean they can't have dog friends.
28:26
Yeah, because I think that those like those walks for example,
28:30
that you, your brother and you have done with OSA and Jackson,
28:34
they have allowed OSA to learn about Jackson and his behavior
28:41
and see more predictability in that.
28:43
And so that is key for a dog like her, right?
28:48
So that her trusting in the predictability of Jackson's
28:53
stable behavior is why you, I mean, also the work, but is why
29:00
you are where you are now, right?
29:04
If Jackson was, and I'm not saying unpredictable dogs are
29:08
bad necessarily, but like Jackson is who he is and he's
29:11
pretty tried and true. And so she has found comfort and
29:16
trust in him responding the same way in those scenarios.
29:21
And you all are good at making sure that they're set up for
29:25
success each time. So I totally agree with you.
29:28
You can have, maybe your dog doesn't like to play with
29:31
another dog, but they like to hike side by side.
29:34
Maybe they like to, like you said, go on walks together.
29:38
Maybe they like to go sit beyond opposite sides of the table at
29:42
patios together. Who knows.
29:44
Not every dog that comes along wants to play with the other
29:47
dog, certainly. But there are a lot of
29:49
situations where they can coexist peacefully and in a
29:52
positive way. And not just coexist, but really
29:56
enjoy that time too, because I would say now OSA gets, she does
30:01
these playbows when she realizes Jackson's there and she whines
30:05
and she cries and she gets all spinny and, and she's so excited
30:10
to see both of us now. And so she genuinely enjoys that
30:15
time together in a very Safeway so.
30:22
Yeah, I love that. So go watch your dogs play or go
30:26
enjoy some dog behavior. Yes, have fun with your dogs.
30:31
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30:39
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Their Side Eye. Thanks for listening everybody.
30:46
Talk to you next time. Bye bye.