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Shapiroworld by Strictly Business · Strictly Business

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You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
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It's Monday, so it's time for Shapiro World with David Shapiro from Sasson
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Securities in Johannesburg.
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Now, David, I watched Match of the Day last night on BBC One, which is my habit,
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you know, Saturday night, Sunday night.
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If I haven't watched the games during the day, all of them,
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they give a nice little sort of compendium of matches on Match of the Day.
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It's very good.
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You're asleep, hours before it airs, of course.
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So it goes out at 11.30 on Central European time.
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So by the time it's finished, it's about quarter to one.
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And I switched on my phone stupidly and had a look at the markets.
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And lo and behold, gold was $5,060 an ounce.
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Now, in the old days, when there weren't 24-hour markets and continuation graphs,
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you used to get...
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Open, high, low, close.
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In other words, the COMEX exchange would open at two o'clock in the afternoon, our
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time or whatever it was,
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and close at eight o'clock.
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And then it would stay closed until the next day, the futures market that is.
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There'd be markets elsewhere, but essentially it was COMEX that was the
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major trading force for gold,
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platform for gold.
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And so the graphs would be very different to what they are today.
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So, for example, if you got what you had last night, in other words, a gap.
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between the close in New York of 4,970 to the opening today,
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which was something like 5,100 at 2 o'clock, you'd get a gap on the chart.
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And some of the most powerful charting formations are analysing gaps and
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analysing reversals and things
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like that.
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You don't get them anymore, but I'd love to be able to see.
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This is my long-winded way of saying, I'd love to be able to find a site that still
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has...
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the open close of COMEX and puts in all those gaps,
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because I'm sure that that gap last night was one of the gaps that says this is
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almost the end of the market.
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Famous last words, of course.
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You can't call it, Hayley.
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That's the danger.
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I looked at Mohamed El-Erian, and he's calling it up to 6,000,
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and there are various other analysts, economists still continuing to believe
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this can go higher.
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I can't see it.
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I'm like you, don't call the end of this market because you have no idea what's
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behind it, who's buying it.
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And if you look at silver, I don't know where silver is at the moment.
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It's $109.51 per ounce.
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I know.
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109, David.
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It was 30 at the beginning of last year or something.
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So when you start to deal with markets like this, this is, I don't want to call
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it pandemonium, pandemonium, but I mean...
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This is difficult.
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This just is, I don't say panic buying.
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I mean, this is frenzied buying for whatever reason.
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And I think it's more speculative than the need to hedge assets.
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This is, oh, this is going up.
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Let's have it.
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So, you know, I find the best thing to do is just to take a step backwards,
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take a few deep breaths and just focus on where you are, you know,
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which is the other side of the market, which is the equity markets.
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but this is You know, I think when markets collapse,
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like we saw on Liberation Day or during COVID or other things, yeah, give it a
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month and it starts to reverse.
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And I can't see this not reversing.
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It feeds on itself, and that's the problem.
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These markets, when you buy speculative markets, you've got to feed this beast all
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the time.
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And, you know, the fatter it gets, the more it wants.
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And there's always a danger of a complete meltdown.
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Yes, central banks are buying,
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but they're also going to find limits to what they can accumulate because you get
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nothing out of a piece of
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gold.
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It's nothing more than a metal that you can keep shining.
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That's what everybody says.
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When you've got that piece of metal that's gone up from, let me just have a look now.
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I'm looking at the very lows.
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It was going sideways, building a beautiful base, and then it started
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to show some form and i got it here around may 2019 when it was
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1300 an ounce and it started going it was just a steady rise and then
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another sideways movement bit of a dip and then a steady rise and then it really took
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off david i'm trying to get my cursor
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on this graph now uh 2055 was where it was in February
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2024. So that was only...
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Two years ago, 2055, it's now 5069.
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So it's more than doubled in less than two years.
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It's astonishing.
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And what I want to get to now, not these numbers, because these details need not
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detain us.
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What started it, it must have been central banks.
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This was proper buying.
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This wasn't a few funds, a couple of ETFs.
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This was central banks getting in there, and people got wind of this and started
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buying and buying.
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What we're probably seeing now is the rats and mice.
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I mean, retail investors who see it on CNN, who see it on any of their news
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programs in the normal bulletin,
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and I've just seen it on German TV, funnily enough, talking about it, and they
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say, right, I need some as well.
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That's the feeling I get.
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Mind you, I've had it before.
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You know what I think one of the catalysts was?
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I think Trump had a lot to do with it initially.
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But as you say, if you look through 21, 22, 23, there was a little bit of a
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sideways.
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From 24, it started this.
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And that was with Trump.
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And I also think that...
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What surprised me, I always thought that when
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Russia invaded Ukraine, you know, that was the start, and that people,
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that certain central banks started to say, okay, America can grab our assets if they
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don't like us,
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therefore let's sell our dollars or American assets and buy something else.
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But that's not borne out by the chart because...
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As you correctly say, it's gone sideways.
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Let me get a 10-year chart on that because it's gone sideways for a significant...
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You're right, in 19 it's picked up and then 1, 2, 3, 4 years almost sideways and
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then 24,
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25 just took off from 2000 all the way up to where we are today.
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Yes.
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And yeah, Trump had a lot to do with it, Trump's politics.
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A fear of, you know, of him confiscating assets, there's no doubt about it.
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Also, this need to diversify.
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But when we look at it and the diversification, it's not that big.
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I mean, the gold markets are not that huge.
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They're tiny, David.
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If you ever look at the total market capitalization of gold mining shares
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worldwide, it's nothing.
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I mean, Musk could buy it.
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If he had a bit of leverage, he could buy the lot.
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It's very, very small in the big scheme of things, the bonds and the AI shares and
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the other tech shares, etc.
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But still, it captures people's imaginations.
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Here we are talking about it.
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And you're not a big investor in gold, are you?
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No, because there's no need to invest in gold.
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I still don't believe in gold, in holding an asset that does nothing.
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Unless even a fear asset, what are you going to do with it?
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You know, what is America going to do with 8,000 tons of gold?
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You know, what's the end game?
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Yes, we're just going to stay there forever, and one day someone's going to
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come and say,
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what was this that was stored down in this vault, this yellow thing?
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You know, what is it?
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And if there is panic and you've got to sell it, who are you going to sell it to?
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Who are these central banks going to sell?
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They've got to wait for an orderly market.
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a good you know and and quietly sell off their gold holding somebody else who wants
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to hold this yellow metal.
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There's no industrial use at all.
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So it's like, what's the end game for gold?
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What's the end game for holding gold?
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You always say this, sir.
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You always say this.
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You say, who's going to buy it?
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Who's going to buy NVIDIA at $205 or $250, wherever it's going to go?
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I mean, it's the same sort of argument.
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People love gold.
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People love it.
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but But people have, I mean, the dollar is stuff to me.
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The debasement of the dollar via Trump has only just started.
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Six months ago, I spoke to a very clever strategist, currency strategist in London.
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He said, Lindsay,
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the down cycle in the dollar has started and it can go on for 20 years.
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I mean, currencies don't, you know, have a one or two year cycle.
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This thing can run and run and run.
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It's a behemoth.
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And he thinks that it's going to nowhere.
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And it will go to nowhere if the central banks continue to diversify from the
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dollar into other things.
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And one of the other things that they've started with, David,
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they've started with gold because gold is relatively illiquid compared to bonds and
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the US dollar.
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So they say, right, we've got a gold position now.
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Let's whack the dollar.
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Let's whack the bonds.
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This is my fantasy world I live in.
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Where is Bitcoin?
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Bitcoin fell overnight to about 86,000.
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Okay.
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And at the moment it's recovered a little bit, but it looks horrible to me.
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It looks as though it's going to 50 or something.
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Wasn't this the savior?
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Wasn't this, what do you call it, digital gold?
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And the same thing's happened.
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People have dumped it or they got bored with it.
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You don't hear them.
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They don't even make the headlines anymore.
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I know Bloomberg have got the crypto market.
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They have a program, but it's a boring program because all they do is talk about
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the same nonsense and nothing really happens.
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And the price goes down.
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And then people say, well, Why are we holding it?
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This has taken over.
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There's massive speculation.
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Look, we had the first set of results that came out today was some Pan-African.
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And you can see the impact it's had on this little miner.
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It's a small mining company.
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Hasn't got a huge market cap in Rand terms.
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I don't know.
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I'll get it for you in a second.
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But, I mean, this is not Anglo gold or gold fields or anything.
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but They made a lot of money and they were able to pay down their debt and they were
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able to pay the first interim dividend now and they're going to have
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money in which they can replace equipment and even expand if they can find any kind
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of areas in which
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there's gold.
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You know, they might be able to.
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The danger is that they, you know, overspend or they don't, because they've
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got so much money,
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they tend to be a bit reckless.
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So I don't know where it goes.
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and I wonder what's happening in a lot of...
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Mining companies, I'm talking gold mining companies and even platinum mining, what
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are they saying?
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They say, at these levels, what are we going to do?
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First, we're going to return it to our shareholders.
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I know we will pay down our debt.
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We'll modernize.
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We will do expansion.
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We'll put some aside.
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But at the end, they can't really go out and buy other platinum mines or do
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anything.
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That takes a long time.
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And they're dead scared to do it, not knowing where the platinum price is going
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to be.
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As we saw last time, that platinum reached 2,300, came all the way back to 900.
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So there's a lot of risk around metal prices at these levels.
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I'm talking for the miners themselves who have to make longer-term decisions.
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I can ask you the same question that you say, who's going to buy the gold?
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What is gold for?
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It doesn't do anything.
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It's just a yellow thing sitting under Fort Knox.
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Which is a fairly simple analysis, I must say, David,
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but it shows your disdain for gold as an investment vehicle.
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And also shows that you haven't got any and you've got some sort of jealousy.
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What's the word?
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Not fear of missing out.
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Yeah, you are.
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No, not fear of missing out because you've missed out.
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Yeah, but anyway, what does Bitcoin do?
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I still don't understand it.
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I still don't understand mining a Bitcoin and I still don't understand what it's
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for.
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What is it for?
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People say, I said to people, why did you buy Bitcoin?
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Can you tell me?
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Please explain to me, because I'm an idiot.
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And they say, I bought it because it's going up.
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That's the stock answer.
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It's a trading vehicle.
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It is, because it's still valued in dollars.
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And that's the point.
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It's supposed to replace the dollar or replace currencies, fiat currencies.
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But I can't see that, you know, it's...
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For me, it holds no appeal at all because you only buy it because it's going to go
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up.
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And I fear that's what we're seeing in some of these other precious metals at the
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moment.
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Everybody wants to get in.
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And you can see it.
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You mentioned the gap, the frenzy that's taking place.
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And I don't know whether that's the top of the market or how long this can go on.
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But I'm sitting this out.
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I'm looking at gold shares going up here dramatically.
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But there's going to be, you know, there will be fallout with that as well,
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somewhere down the line.
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But listen, for traders, they can continue.
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You know, they can watch the momentum.
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They can keep going.
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But I mean, to make a long-term decision after the runs that we had is very, very
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difficult.
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It's interesting to see the CRB index at all-time record highs, David.
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It's broken out of its range, which we've spoken about and almost predicted.
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I was just looking at a few of the indicators of the headlines.
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On the CRB page, it says here, stocks in Ghana hit all-time high.
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Zinc hits 35-month high.
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Stocks in Lithuania hit all-time high.
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CRB index, all-time high.
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Baltic Dry Index, year-to-date, up 126%.
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Shows the flow of trade worldwide and how much people are willing to pay to stick
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something on a boat.
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Nuclear Energy Index, up 112%.
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Solar, up 65%.
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Bye.
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percent, wind up 53 and a half percent.
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Things are booming.
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The world is booming, it seems.
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Lithuania, Ghana, nuclear energy, everything's soaring.
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Doesn't it make you nervous?
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Yes.
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Well, it hasn't come through yet.
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I'm waiting for it to happen here.
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It should happen.
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And I think it's going to take a bit of time for it to filter through this
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economy.
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And how much is going to filter through as well is difficult to say.
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If the government plays it right, our government in South Africa,
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they will reduce debt as long as they're not encouraged to start handing out more
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in social grants.
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Because once it slows down and that you can never withdraw it, you can't reduce
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it.
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So they've got to be very careful how they use that money.
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And for me, it's an ideal time to put this into the economy, to fix up the
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infrastructure.
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because As we discuss often, this place is literally, you know, when I say literally
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falling apart, it is falling apart.
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from roads to dams to whatever.
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And so we'll see how they use it.
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And yeah, for Ghana and places like that where they do have mines,
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are they going to pass it on to their people and develop Africa?
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I don't know.
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It's happened before during the super cycle when the Chinese were buying every
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kind of metal as well.
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Nothing's really happened since then.
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If you look at Africa today, we've benefited.
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You haven't really seen the benefits of it.
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Africa still remains Africa.
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Yes, it is.
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And Mr.
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Trump has made that very clear, hasn't he?
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He was certain of his nasty comments.
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I'm saying it out of regret.
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You know what I mean?
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I'm not saying it out of it's not an attack.
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I'm saying it's regretful that you get these bonanzas and it's not managed.
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Everybody wants to lay their hands on it.
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and super taxes and so on.
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But we'll see.
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I don't know how this is.
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Remember, we don't mine much gold here anymore.
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So I don't think it's going to move.
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No, but it's everything else.
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It's the white metals and the bulk commodities that are doing so well.
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I'm not going to bore you with putting up, you know, iron ore and coal and all that
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sort of thing.
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But all doing very well indeed.
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David, we've got the Fed this week.
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What are the Fed going to say?
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What are they going to say?
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We mentioned it with Viv, and Viv came up with some very clever analysis of that.
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But let's you and I get down to basics and say, what's the consensus here?
17:19
What's the last few months of Powell's reign going to yield when it comes to U.S.
17:24
interest rates?
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It's interesting how the conversation has shifted towards this Rick Reinders, or
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Reiders, who's from BlackRock.
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BlackRock, yes.
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Yeah, I think he's...
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Apparently the favourite to take over.
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He's a very sensible man and will not be bullied.
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I think with a high reputation.
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I think around that, things have settled down.
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But that doesn't mean the pressure is off Powell.
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There's a case still against him.
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And I don't think anything is going to be done until this is all sorted out.
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And I think the market's positioned for that.
18:00
In fact, to be fair, the market's positioned for nothing, for no rate cuts
18:06
this whole year.
18:08
And it hasn't really changed perspective.
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There's one interesting story.
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I mean, and I try to do quite a bit of work on it.
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I try to go back to Davos and say, what came out of these meetings?
18:20
You know, because Trump took over.
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He drowned out any kind of dialogue.
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You know, he was the prime attraction.
18:29
He had a full go at Europe.
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and out of that, I said, well...
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You know, what do we learn from this?
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I know that he had a go at Europe in a big way.
18:44
As you mentioned, Christine Lagarde last week, you know, she walked out of the
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meeting.
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But at the end, America is too powerful to ignore.
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And what I found interesting, even though gold is going up, platinum and all of
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this, the equity market's steady.
19:01
So you've got this, I'm trying to work it and I've said it to you before, I think.
19:04
You know, there's this two-lane highway.
19:06
In fact, there's a third lane, which is now Japan, but, you know, which is causing
19:11
issues.
19:11
But the AI lane, you know, that equity lane,
19:18
the development of data centers and all the issues around that still remains very
19:25
strong and intact.
19:27
And that's not being impacted by what's happening, you know, in the currency
19:32
markets or in the bond markets at all.
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That's a different market.
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That's the second layer.
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And that's the one that's causing the headlines and causing gold to go up.
19:42
And the third, of course, we've got Japan, which is, I don't know how that's going to
19:48
play out as well.
19:50
But if the yen continues to fall and rates there go up,
19:53
there will be an impact because you'll unwind that carry trade, which is still
19:59
quite large.
20:01
And the story was that the US was actually buying the yen in order to stabilize it
20:07
because of the damage it
20:09
can do.
20:11
So you've got kind of almost three lanes, but I'm focused on the left lane,
20:14
which is the AR lane.
20:15
Do you think that at some stage, the left lane, there's going to be an accident in
20:21
the left lane and you're going to have to go
20:23
to the middle lane or the right lane?
20:25
Or there's going to be congestion on the left lane?
20:28
Yeah, it's just the other lanes take over you because you don't think so.
20:33
You don't think there's any chance that you're not narrow-minded and myopic
20:40
portfolio sense
20:42
because I don't know what your portfolios are and I know you wouldn't do that.
20:43
But do you think that one day you're going to be disappointed and you're going to
20:50
look over there and look at the commodities
20:52
and look at, I don't know, what else it's going to be that...
20:55
overtakes AI in terms of returns and say, you know what, I'm not diversified enough.
21:01
Will you ever say that?
21:02
I'm quite diversified even if I am in the left lane.
21:07
But I'm hoping that we don't.
21:12
That this market responds to the results in moderation, that there's no run.
21:18
Run, I mean, you know, it surges.
21:21
Because I think we need to digest a lot in the theme,
21:26
the AI theme and so on.
21:28
And I'd like results to catch up with some of the prices.
21:32
And that gives us more opportunity down the line.
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So I don't want this to keep running away from us.
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And I think the numbers are going to be good.
21:42
You won't be disappointed.
21:43
Sometimes they put the bar a little too high.
21:46
But what I really yearn for, Lindsay,
21:51
is going back to growth,
21:55
to a steady economy where economies are growing,
21:59
where there's respect between all the nations.
22:03
Not the turmoil that we're facing at the moment.
22:07
Because those are the best markets to have where international trade might not
22:14
globalization might be over and there might be a new order coming.
22:18
But as long as it's stable, as long as America gets back to trying to grow on a
22:25
certain trajectory.
22:27
The new order is due to one person, David.
22:27
Sorry to interrupt.
22:28
He'll be gone in three years' time if he manages to survive three years because
22:33
he's not looking very healthy.
22:35
He can't walk straight.
22:37
You see him trying to get onto Marine One or along to these steps to get up on Air
22:42
Force One.
22:42
He's weaving all over the place.
22:44
He's a mess, the boy.
22:46
But anyway, the new world order is going to be,
22:52
it hasn't changed yet.
22:53
He's making noises about it and being dictatorial and the great powers are back
22:58
again.
22:58
But there's no real great powers.
23:00
China's a pretender.
23:02
The Russia is finished, and we'll talk about that in a moment.
23:05
The U.S.
23:05
is only doing this because of one person, and people are scared of him, so they let
23:10
him do it.
23:10
But it's not going to happen.
23:11
I'm sorry.
23:12
No, I'm with you.
23:14
I don't think so.
23:14
I think he fears losing the midterms in case they impeach him.
23:19
He doesn't want to face that.
23:22
But I don't see anybody emerging in the U.S.
23:28
he had a full go at Gary Newsom you know from from California.
23:34
He had a go at Powell.
23:35
He had a go at Macron.
23:39
Macron. All of them.
23:42
At Biden, he's the most awful man around, whatever he is.
23:46
I don't know the exact quote.
23:47
But he wasn't exactly complimentary about the old man.
23:50
I mean, he has a form of pride.
23:52
Still going on that he lost, that he won the 20, even in his speech to Davos.
23:57
Even at Davos and even at the UN.
24:00
He was going on about how.
24:01
How he was, you know, the 2020 was stolen from him.
24:04
How he won it.
24:05
I mean, anyway, I think people just, oh, God, okay.
24:09
Three more years, we'll tolerate it.
24:11
Let's go back to safe assets.
24:13
And gold is traditionally a safe asset.
24:18
When I first started in the business, you would buy gold if inflation was going up,
24:24
if the dollar was going down, and if there was international tensions.
24:26
Is there any chance that some of the central banks are still loading up or have
24:29
been loading up?
24:31
Because they fear...
24:33
The bellicose, boorish nature of Trump, the warlike nature.
24:37
I mean,
24:38
he said he sent a flotilla to the Persian Gulf in order to monitor Iran.
24:45
And they are going there, these huge vessels, a couple of them on their way to
24:51
that part of the world.
24:53
There's that.
24:55
There's also Russia.
24:57
Now, Russia has been in a war now.
24:59
How many years will it be next month, David?
25:01
22.
25:03
So five years.
25:05
Four years.
25:07
Four years.
25:09
Yeah.
25:11
It'll be a long time.
25:13
That was the First World War, yeah.
25:15
That was four years.
25:17
Yeah, 1914 to 1918.
25:19
And this thing will go on, yeah.
25:21
But they're losing a lot of troops.
25:23
According to Trump, it's about 30,000 a month.
25:25
I'm not sure about that.
25:27
But anyway, the troops are one thing, horrible, young people being decimated.
25:29
But it's the money.
25:31
The Russian economy, despite the fact that a lot of the commodities that it digs out
25:33
the ground
25:35
from its aging and decrepit mines, are going up.
25:37
It's out of money, David.
25:39
If that economy collapses, Putin will run for the hills.
25:41
He'll be living in Shanghai or Dubai or somewhere like that.
25:42
Someone will give him shelter, Doha maybe, because that's the place to go.
25:46
I mean, Hamas was there.
25:47
So why not Putin?
25:49
And then there'll be a power struggle.
25:50
And that's dangerous as well, especially with more nuclear weapons than any other
25:55
country in the world.
25:57
Are they worried?
25:59
It's not just a diversification of their their financial assets, these central
26:02
banks.
26:02
It's also a fear that they know something could happen.
26:07
Do you think that?
26:08
You're bringing up a point, Ja.
26:09
I think you're bringing up a very valid point, which not many of us have thought
26:16
about, you know, what happens.
26:18
At the meantime, he's pretty steady, and Trump had a full go at Europe for buying
26:21
his oil.
26:23
This is Putin, you know, which enables him to stay in power.
26:25
But I think what you say is dead right.
26:28
I think that Russia is a lot weaker than we think it is,
26:32
or that it's made out to be for those very reasons.
26:36
And I haven't thought about it.
26:39
There's been no activity.
26:40
There's been, you know, no one knows what is happening there.
26:46
You don't know from state television or from anything.
26:49
But there's always a possibility.
26:51
The same with Iran.
26:53
You know, we're not quite sure what's happening there.
26:56
So it's not a great place to be.
27:00
And that's why I'm saying I'd love to go back where we go into a very steady type.
27:06
scenario, you know, where we can go back to looking at the world as in, you know,
27:13
everybody getting on well,
27:15
trading with each other at the moment.
27:17
But what you're right, you know, what you rightfully point out is that things can go
27:20
belly up, you know, can go wrong.
27:22
Yes, they can.
27:24
And with Trump, you never know when they will.
27:26
We keep on bringing up Trump, but he is the one that really stirs the pot every
27:30
single day.
27:31
OK, David, we need to talk about something else now.
27:34
I just want to have a look at some of the shares on the JSE.
27:36
91 going through the roof, 10% up, both 91 Limited and PLC.
27:42
What's that about?
27:43
Just because the market's going up or what?
27:45
Yeah, I don't think there's anything peculiar about that at all.
27:49
It's been, you know, our market has been dictated by gold shares.
27:54
It's, I mean, they're the big gainers.
27:57
If we take that out, it's a little bit of a late.
28:03
A flurry of buying, although if I look at financials and industrials, they haven't
28:09
really done anything today.
28:11
They're flat.
28:13
They were slightly negative.
28:15
Consumer, again, once more, the consumer discretionary still under a bit of
28:18
pressure.
28:18
I looked at cash bills numbers that came out today as well.
28:21
It doesn't point to anything.
28:22
It doesn't point to any turnaround in demand for window frames and wooden
28:29
doors or cement and so on.
28:32
If we look at the market today, it is entirely gold shares.
28:37
And, you know, I'm looking here at where the gain is or where the big,
28:43
Sabania, where Sabania, let me just sort this out to give you the latest.
28:50
Yes, please.
28:51
Because it has been moving.
28:53
But, I mean, if I look at the top gainers here, you know, on the market.
28:57
I've got the two 91s, Karoo and African Rainbow Minels.
29:00
I haven't got a gold share.
29:01
91, yeah.
29:03
Yeah, I haven't got a gold share.
29:03
Notification of transactions by a relevant director, someone buying there.
29:08
But that's up 9.12%.
29:11
Exactly.
29:12
It's a big mover.
29:13
Nice.
29:14
I don't know what that means.
29:16
Hendrick de Toy must be having a lovely evening tonight.
29:21
What else have we got?
29:21
Goldfield's up 5%.
29:23
Northern's up 5%.
29:24
Volterra, nearly 5%.
29:26
So yeah, it's predictable stuff.
29:28
It's all gold shares, other than 91,
29:30
which seems to be a bit peculiar because there's no real news around that.
29:36
The thing is that the diversifiers have held back a little.
29:39
The big diversified miners are not keeping up with gold and platinum shares, but they
29:46
just continue to go up 4%
29:48
or 5% a day at the moment, which is always a dangerous thing.
29:52
It's creating wealth, David.
29:53
It's creating wealth in South Africa.
29:56
Hopefully, you know, the PIC has got lots of gold shares and that sort of thing.
29:59
Hopefully, people are doing well out of it.
30:02
Long may it continue.
30:03
The South African Tenure Bond Yield is another one to look at 8.12%, quite
30:08
extraordinary.
30:08
Well, Eglip Gold, you know, is no longer operational in South Africa.
30:12
It's up to 891 billion at the moment as well.
30:15
Goldfields has got very little operations here.
30:18
It's 812, you know, so it gives you an idea.
30:21
If we go to Impala, that's done well, $333 billion.
30:25
That's come from, if you go back a few years, it was nowhere near those kind of
30:30
levels.
30:30
I'm looking at Pan-Africa, which is $73 billion,
30:33
which is pretty good because this was nowhere near that kind of level.
30:40
You can know with gold price where it is now and the kind of movements we've seen.
30:44
So they are dominating the market cap.
30:49
You know, they're beginning to...
30:50
to become very influential in where the JC goes.
30:55
Right.
30:56
I've got a wealth of information here.
30:58
Yes, you have.
30:59
I'm sure you have, which we can talk about.
31:01
Lots of buttons to press.
31:04
The simple fact is the market is going up and commodities are flying.
31:08
I know it's not your area, so I'm not going to go on about it.
31:11
I'll leave that for Skullclaw on Wednesday.
31:14
He loves it.
31:15
He's so excited.
31:17
Does he?
31:17
Yes, him, yeah.
31:18
David?
31:19
We were bemoaning the fact that there weren't many goals in the Premiership
31:25
recently, and then we got a bumper day yesterday.
31:27
A five-goal thriller at Highbury, or rather the Emirates, and unfortunately it
31:32
went against you.
31:34
But a good game of football, a good proper, you know, old English-style
31:38
rough-and-tumble, I thought.
31:40
Yeah, I'm a bit worried about Arsenal.
31:42
And I say it in the sense that as three games,
31:49
two they've drawn and one they've lost.
31:52
That's out of nine points, they've picked up two.
31:54
0-0 at Nottingham Forest, 0-0 at home to Liverpool and losing at home to Manchester
31:59
United.
31:59
And losing at home to Man United.
32:01
So they're great in the cup games.
32:03
They did well in the...
32:05
And there they play this kind of second team.
32:08
And I just got a bit worried that there was a good article in The Guardian which
32:15
said, you know,
32:17
these chaps were like cyborgs.
32:18
What do you call them?
32:19
Cyborgs, almost like monsters or robots.
32:23
And it says all of a sudden they've got a bit of emotion now and they started to
32:30
panic and showing vulnerability.
32:32
And that's my worry is that they, you know, the side that went out yesterday and
32:37
was played the last three weeks.
32:39
Not the same side that started the season.
32:40
So there's concerns, and I think, I don't know whether Arteta's the right man.
32:44
I don't know whether he's got the experience to know how to win the league.
32:49
He should have now.
32:50
How long has he been there?
32:52
Six years, I think?
32:53
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
32:54
I don't know.
32:56
If you look at the quality of his people, I mean, but that goal that Zubabendi gave,
33:02
jeez,
33:04
I mean, that's primary school stuff.
33:07
He was very slack there and that emboldened Manchester United.
33:11
Manchester United's other two goals was quite sensational.
33:15
The first one from Dorgue, goodness me.
33:19
And then what's the other?
33:20
Here's the other one, Kunja, who they bought from Wolves for a lot of money.
33:25
They're suddenly coming good under Carrick. It's good for them.
33:30
I'm not, you know, I'm not, I just, they played well.
33:35
They deserved it.
33:36
um arcel you know once the thing is like that that own goal i'm not own goal sorry
33:43
the zuba
33:45
mindy you know just back pass and that it just destroys like having somebody sent
33:50
off it just takes you backwards you know and
33:52
and i think from that point i just said no this is not going to work this
33:54
is not it's not going to happen and anyway i i as an arcel fan and and i'm not going
34:01
into, I'm not being silly about it, I'm just worried that they haven't got the
34:07
mentality.
34:09
They've got to find that mentality.
34:11
We'll see.
34:13
There's still four points clear.
34:15
Don't worry.
34:17
Don't worry, David.
34:19
I know.
34:21
They'll get it.
34:23
Piers Morgan, also an avid Arsenal fan, said on X, he said that was more painful
34:25
than a hip operation.
34:27
He hates losing.
34:29
Ipswich lost as well, so it wasn't a very good weekend for us.
34:31
But it's going to be a good weekend in the Champions League.
34:33
Looking forward to that.
34:35
And also looking forward to speaking with you.
34:37
and Viv Govender later in the week.
34:39
David, thank you very much for your time.
34:41
David Shapiro is from Sasson Securities.
34:43
And that was Shapiro World.
34:45
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