Latest / WoT Spoilers / To Keep the Bargain - Knife of Dreams chapter 32 - EP505

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To Keep the Bargain - Knife of Dreams chapter 32 - EP505 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. So you
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: want to start bullshitting about the book, I do, I
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: do want to talk about these books.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. I am so disturbed. There's a reason we're
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: taking September off. I'm barely gonna make it through August.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: The wedding is one hundred percent on my mind. It
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: is consuming everything I'm thinking about, except when I send
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you a little one off. So when I listen to the.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Audiobooks, yeah, those are those are cool. You're you're definitely
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: a little more all over the place than usual. What
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: means just a scoach, Just a scoach. But today we
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: are here to do chapter thirty two. We're getting towards
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: the end of the book. We're getting to another payoff
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: chapter that, like we have been anticipating for so not
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: specifically this confrontation, but just the way that Elaine is
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: finally having things happen rather than just politicking.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, because this is the payoff of essentially the
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Black Ajaw storyline, the one that began way back in
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: the White Tower when they were sent out by Suan
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: to pursue the thirteen Black Sisters. It's not a total
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: accumulation of it, but it's not sort of the end
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: until the last battle where they're just part of the
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: last battle, right, But this is the end of the hunting.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Them right, right, It is.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: The end of that. It's the end of and this
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: one and the next chapter is the.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Beginning of the end of her succession plot.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Session because there is a two chapter arc, so we
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: have a secession plot and sort of like the end
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: of the van Deen Adalias plot line.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Well, that was technically last chapter.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I know we already that was technically last chapter, right,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: but like we're sort of yeah, basically, Jordan's like checking
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: boxes off one after the other, being like we are
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: getting ready, we are rearing up for that last battle.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And I had these dangling plot lines, you know, these
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: threads in the pattern that I just either need to
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: cut short or you know, ignore from here on.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Basically, I mean, he took a few chapters to wrap
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: up Fayel and Maldon and now we're done with that.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: So now we're shifting focus to Elaine. We're taking a
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: couple of chapters, several a few chapters, yeah, a few chapters,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: three chapters to wrap up Elaine's whole Black Alga succession,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: twist of plots and it's it's a good chapter. I
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: really enjoy a great chapter. This is a very fun
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: action chapter. We get to be in Brigida's head, which is,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: you know, not the most common POV, and she's she's
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: fun to be with.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: And there's there's a couple there's one line in here
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: where she I love Brigita thinking about her past because
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: it's just it's great, Lord drop right.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's in a good chapter.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: It's it's our Jay just doing his thing and we
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: love it.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And in POV writing, like we're seeing the event that
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: we saw in the last chapter from Brigidi's POV instead
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: of Elaine's, but we know what's going on inside because
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: we just saw that happen. But yeah, I really enjoy this.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: I love Burgita. I think she's very smart. I love
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: what she does. I love her strategy, even though it
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: is bloody as hell.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of those ridiculous like general decisions where
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you're like, wait, that was the strategically sound thing, was
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: to just meet Grinder all those people? Yeah what but
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: like it's hard to you know, see the alternative.
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: And with the resources she had on hand.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's an intense chapter, but it's a
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: good chapter.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's a very good chapter, as I mean, those are
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: reason people read Knife of Dreams and go oh yeah Jordan,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: but was back right, And it's chapters like this.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely all right, ready for me to read us in.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: I am always ready for you to read us in.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, chapter thirty two. To keep the bargain and our
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: symbol is the sea folk seagulls. Brigita was leaning against
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the stone wall of the Three Stone House, thinking sadly
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: of guide all when the bundle of emotions and physical
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: sensations in the back of her head. Her awareness of
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Elaine suddenly spasmed. That was the only word for it.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Whatever it was lasted just a moment, but afterward the
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: bond was full of limpness. Elaine was conscious but unsteady.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: She was unafraid. However, still, Brigida threw back her cloak
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: and moved to the corner to peer up full Moon Street.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Elaine could be too brave for her own good. The
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: hardest thing about being Elaine's worder was keeping her from
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: endangering herself beyond need. Nobody was indestructible. But the bloody
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: woman thought she bloody well was her sigil should have
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: been an iron lion rather than a golden lily. That
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: light shone in the window, spilling a pale pool into
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: the narrow street, and there was not a sound except
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: for a cat yowling somewhere in the night. So yeah,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: scene set tension.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Escalating, cat channeling.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: There is a lot of mentions of this cat dog
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: dynamic in the background. I guess that's yeah, yeah.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: There's something going on here. I don't know, it's it's
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: one of those things get mentioned early on and it
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: feels like he forgets about it for like five books,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, yeah, I should put that back in.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: There's lots of channeling happening tonight.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, and it's like, why do those dogs have
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: a barking session? Right? Oh, it's just channeling or something, right.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: I like that idea. So yeah, obviously what's going on
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: is what we saw in the last chapter. Elaine and
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: company are getting zapped with the tarn, real that they're
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: getting shocked, right pretty much, everybody is still confident because
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: they're alive, And then we get this conversation about carry Anne.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, that she feels confident, more confident than
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: she did when going in, because there's a bunch of
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: she just recognized.
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she just saw them come in and was like,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: oh good, So I do have the situation under control.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. And so question, are her Carrie Anne's worders
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: dark friends because she's got two, right, Veneer and Cirel. Yeah,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: because she that's they're they're both like talking about how
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: she feels going in and talking to each other, so
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: they must be her two orders. The one ward says
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: she feels confident, I say we wait, and the other
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: one says more so than she did going in, and
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: the first one gives them a sharp glance, like, don't
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: give that shit away.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: It does make me think that they're both dark friends.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And yeah, sharp glance is what makes me think they're
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: dark friends. Is that, like I agree, don't give it
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: away that like there might be allies coming to help her,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: because then we might be seen as dark friends.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's also there's another name in here, Tavon,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: which I don't see anywhere else on the page.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: He oh, I guess yeah. He. All three of them
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: are orders to carry in. So she has three orders.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so I guess probably all three of them
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: are dark friends.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe, you know, it's it's not clear, and Encyclopedia Watt
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: says it's unclear right whether they are or not, So
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: for me make your own conclusions. We see both with
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: the dark friends with the black Aujas. Sometimes they are
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: dark friends and hiding that from their orders. Sometimes they
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: try and find another dark friend they can bond as
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: a order, right, so, and especially someone with three right, like,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you could see that being a mix that maybe two
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: of them are dark friends hiding it from the third
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: or something like that.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and one isn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no no
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: consistent pattern there. And once she dies, they're all going
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: to react the same exactly.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: So exactly so, but that glance makes me think at
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: least those two are dark friends.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed, agreed, And because.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: They're giving away the whole like reinforcements are coming thing.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah and then yeah, as they wait and Brigita wonders
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: what to do, the orders start screaming in rage as
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: their eyes to die progressively die.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Right. Brigita again, as we saw, you know.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Turns to head back to the palace immediately because she
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: knows what the fuck that means.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So order of death Carrie and dies first, then van Deen,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: then the third one.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: And then yeah. The Guibon and Burgita like know what
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: that means and respond accordingly, or no, you're it's not Gaybon,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you'reth the leader of the Yeah we get Yeah, the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: leader of the Queen's Guard and Brigita are like, uh, that's.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Bad, right, but but you know it's what they do.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Instead of running in revenge, they run the fuck away
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: and get it exactly, which I think is like, That's
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: why one of the reasons I love Burgida so much
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: is she immediately like, oh, okay, I can't handle this
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: time to go get help, Like Elaine's not dead and
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: if I run in there, there's nothing I can do.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: We can get help. She's in their possession.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, game over, I'll actually take it back. E Eth
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: does not vibe with that. Only Burgida is smart enough
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to know that Erath is actually as silly as a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: warder and is actually about to head in. I misrepresented her.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: She is silly as the orders. Well, the wards are
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: dealing with death rage, so it's not silly. But yeah,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: only Burgida has the presence of mind. To exit the
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: scene to get help rather than to make it worse.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: And so she makes sure that they grab Hark, which
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I know. So Hark goes to slip away, and I
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: was wondering if that was part of him having been
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: caught and compelled as per your hypothesis last time, if
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: like he had orders to, you know, go and report
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to them at some later location so that way they
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: could continue to use him for whatever purposes in the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: aftermath of getting away with Elaine.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I just think it's him seeing disaster trying to use
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: it that Yeah.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, survival instinct from a person with a
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: well hed survival instinct. Yeah, could just be that.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I always say I love that Brigida has a horse
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: named Arrow because I had a dog named Arrow. So
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: that's my wheel of time reference.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: There.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Also very appropriate for Brigida to have a horse name obviously, Yes, yeah,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I had to put that together. But yes, that's very
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: cute that you, you and Brigida share approach and for
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: that name.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, of course she has arrows because she's a
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: bowman and all that kind of stuff. Right there is
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: that like my arrow who guides me forward, And there's
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: lots of good metaphors. It's an arrow horse, yes, totally, totally.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: And so as she's galloping through the streets at a
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: break neck pace, the sky is turning gray. So keeping
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: track of our timeline from middle of the night through
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: the mid morning when this battle glades. Okay, right, the
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: sky is turning gray as she is heading back to
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: the palace.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: And basically people seeing her galloping at full speed are like, okay,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: putting my helmet on there, Like, wait, she went out
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: with the queen this morning and she's coming galloping back
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: at a pace break neck speed. Okay, putting on a pain.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going to be rushed today.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Guys, get your coffee and chug that and put on
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: your armor. Yes, we are going to fight.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: And she's yelling for people to like summon the wind
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Finders and the kinswomen and so on and so forth.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: As she goes and to summon Dialon and to some Guybond.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: She arrives in the map room to discover that Dialon
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and Guybon are already there because by sheer coincidence, Ara
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: Milla is launching her most intense attack yet on the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: walls and they're in the process of responding to that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: When Burgida comes in with a bigger crisis for them
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: to handle.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: Which causes this moment where they need to split their troops, right,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And there's a bit of an argument about that, right,
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: because they need to keep enough troops on the walls
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: to keep Aramella from breaking in, but Burgina needs enough
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: troops to go rescue a lane, or at least enough
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: people to throw into a meat grinder that the wind
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: finders will rescue a lane.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Same same tato, potato.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: There was a big debate about it, and I wasn't
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: entirely sure how many she ended up pulling off and
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: how many got left on. I never figured out what
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: the final numbers were. I got bounced around too many times.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Because I think it happens twice. I think they make
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: one split and then as they're going out to deploy,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: they have to split again. And so yeah, I also
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: have never really kept track of the exact numbers, because yeah,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: Burgida sends after they split up from here, Yeah, there's
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: another instance, and it's it's yeah, I this is not
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: the kind of detail I care about, So I don't know.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, stay tuned, I'll try and see if
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I can gather.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Until we go through, all right.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: But I love her advantage of being able. She's like
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: she knows exactly where Elaine is and how far away
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: she is because of the bond.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: And how fast she's traveling and how fast.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: He's traveling, and can at any moment basically say, Okay,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: we're gonna just gateway in front of them, yeah, which
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I think is just it's it's such a cool order. Yeah,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: she's gpstrictor and like BA combined with gateways means she
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: they can really never get away from her. Like I
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: know she's in this big hurry, but I'm kind of like,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: maybe stop Aramilla first and then go rescue Elane.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: But also, you have no idea they might hop through
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: a gateway of their own any time. They might like
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: start applying compulsion to her, Like every minute she's in
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: dark friend hands is dangerous. True, It's it's a really
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: fast moving situation with no good options. M and I
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: do wonder why and not why. I wonder how information
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: got to Aramilla that she should do this big push now,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: because clearly this is triggered by the fact that Elaine
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: did this raid on the house on full ministry. There's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: no way this is an actual coincidence.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Right, hold on, I have to look at Bara Milla
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: for a second, because I see you remember her meeting.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: A Miller A r Y m I l la. It's
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: literally right in front of around the page Ariy Miller
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: A Milla, Okay. And also there's this line here about
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: unless there's dark friends have somehow smuggled an army inside Camelin,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: will be fine, and then like two pages later that's
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: exactly what the information that comes up is, is like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: there's basically an army that's been smuggled inside Camelin and
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: we have to deal with it, oh right. And also
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: all of the neutral houses are moving on the same day,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: and again it's like there's no way that that's all
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: just a coincidence that like this raid happens and then
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: all the different armies start moving.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I I mean, I think it's we're talking to Veer
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: and Light right. Unfortunately, because I don't see Ara Milla
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: meeting with anybody. I just I think that basically this
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: is a high tension moment, and.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: So why the hell did Eline have to choose this
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: to day to go on a fucking raid of the
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: Black Aja and get herself all fucked up. That's terrible timing.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Because this was the day. This was the day that
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Following Handlin worked. It didn't work before this.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Why did it get allowed to work on this? It
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: just all feels so like, like why is it all
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: happening on the same day?
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Because Robert Jordan wanted an exciting, action packed chapter and
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: he successfully created one.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I can't argue with that logic.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: This is entirely I'm giving him writing license on this
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: one that he's just like, you know what, I'm gonna
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: wrap this shit up in one big bow. And it's
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: all these threads are coming together. This is the last battle, right,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Like Elaine needs to be there to run the last battle.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: She needs to be queen. The Pattern is doing its
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: thing and saying, hmm, we'll wrap this shit up because
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: the last battle needs to happen now. And there's a
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: little bit of Jordan wrapping it up because he needs
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: to write the last battle, and a little bit of
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: the Pattern wrapping it up because the last battle needs
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to happen and she needs to be there. Like you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: we're meta gaming here or meta writing here, but like, yeah,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: I'm okay with it. It doesn't bother me. You can
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: let it bother you too, But I don't.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Well, mostly I was just like, is there something there
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: that I was missing? Or is this literally just his
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: artistic license? Like did I miss a communicate?
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: I don't think so, as far as I know, it's
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: just I mean, maybe Aramilla knew about the other people moving.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Those two I can see being related. Those are big
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: armies moving. There could be pigeons flying between them. There
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: could be scouts right, like one army moving could have
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: triggered Armila's attack. Well, so maybe the neutral parties decided
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: to move. Although are they moving to support Elane or
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Armilla or like that? I also wasn't clear on is
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: what is their whole Who are they moving to support?
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Because eventually they come to a lane. But that's because
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Elaine has beaten Aramilla.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's not Yeah, it's not made. They suspect that. They
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: put forward a few hypotheses, but as far as I know,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: we never get confirmation of which of those is correct.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Do I think a bunch of them die in fighting too?
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: Not here?
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: No?
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, they don't make it in time for this conflict, gotcha? Yeah,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: So Brigita thinks about how her and Dylan just don't
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: get along.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: It reminds me of men and Faieel.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's totally that dynamic of like they're both good people,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: we both like them, but man, they strike each other
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: the wrong way, just a little bit too similar but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: also just the wrong kind of different.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And like, there are totally people like that in real life.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: And I kind of like that he puts these in
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: here that it's like, we like all these people, but
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: sometimes they don't like each other and they don't have to.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: And there doesn't have to be a good reason for it.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Sometimes people just don't like each other and that is
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: all the reason you get or need. And yeah, it's
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: not because one's evil or one's smart, or it's just
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: people don't universally like each other. It's just not a
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: realistic expectation. And then yeah, we get this very cool
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: paragraph from Brigida about her memories because she tells guy Bond,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, Bailfire is you know, super dangerous, blah blah blah,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and she reflects on how she is repeating things that
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Elaine told her, that she told Elaine and she can't
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: remember the information initially, which like, weirdly actually happened to
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: me when I was a kid, I had a friend
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: to teach me how to make daisy chains and I
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: was like, that's really cool, thanks for teaching. And she's like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you're the one who taught me how to do this.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So like I one thousand percent to not remember that,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and like we were like seven six, you know, at
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the time, but like she swore up and down that
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I had taught her how to do it, and I
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: was like, you literally just taught me how to do this.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: This is such a weird conversation.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: So that's happened to me. And my theory is that
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: you have something in short term memory, you teach it
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: to somebody. They have it in short term memory, and
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: they practice it enough that it goes into their long
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: term memory, but it never sticks in your long term memory.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: And then and so you forget that you even knew
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: how to do it, right because you never practiced it
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: as much. Even though you did it first and you
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: taught them how to do it, it never stuck.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: You didn't develop the skill. You just had. You had
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: the knowledge, but you didn't have the.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Skill, right. Yeah. It's kind of like how like a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: lot of interactions that are really meaningful to one person,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Like the person at the other end of that interaction,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: like did not like it was not a profound meeting
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: in a coffee shop that one time. It was just
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: one of a million interactions that day. But for the
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: other person, it's like, that's the conversation that like changed
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: their perspective on going to college or whatever. Like, right,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: kind of just we assign different levels of storage to
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: the same thing, different.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Levels of importance, right, I mean, and parents do it
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of kids, Right. That's that's why parents and
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: kids can have a very different recollection of how their
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: childhood went. The parents were like, everything was fine, you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: were doing great. I thought you were happy. I thought,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you know. Then children are like I was suffering. I
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: was miserable. I never you know, how did you not see?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And it's like, oh, well, the interactions that I thought
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: were minor inconveniences you saw as huge tragedies. And the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: things I saw is great. You saw as you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: kind of crappy, right, and vice versa. And it doesn't
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: take many of those and all of a sudden, like
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: that trip that the parents spent a ton of money
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: on an effort on and said, didn't you really enjoy
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that trip to the you know, Grand Canyon and the kids. Like,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I don't remember that at all, but I do remember
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: you yelling at me in the airport because we were late.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: For our flight, right right, Yeah, and that's.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: The trauma I experienced. Meanwhile, you're like, I gave my
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: kid this great experience, but all you gave your gave
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: your kid was was trauma. Isn't it fun being? Yeah? Okay,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: By the way, have I mentioned that I'm thinking about
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: having kids once I'm married pretty soon? Soir repye. I
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: won't mess my kids up the way my parents did.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: I'll find a new way to do it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, that's the best you can hope for.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: It really is full cycles and create something different Like this.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I learned this in therapy. Have that one for free,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: thank you?
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of therapy, brigito, Yeah, she is losing her memories.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: It is a tragedy that we are seeing happening in
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: real time a little bit through a conversation with Lane,
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: but here we see it in her own mind.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: She did not think she had lost any recently, but
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: how would she know if she had? Heartbreaking?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, you want to talk about like in Alzheimer's analogy,
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: she just happens to have lifetimes to forget instead of
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: one lifetime. Right, Yeah, you know, because I think she's
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: slowly leaking back into the world of dreams. Right, she's
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: who she is, that legend, that soul is back in
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the world of dreams.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Right. It's too much for one person to hold, Like
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: all that extra has to go back to from whence
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: it came isostatic rebound across the veil.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Rand can't even deal with one lifetime. Matt just has.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: He's got a bunch of spotty lifetimes, but not like
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: full lifetimes. He's got individual memories.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Parent just has two lives, just two entire lives. He's
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: living in parallel.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: And in a lot of ways he has sort of
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: ancestral memories he can ask the wolves about.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I was thinking, interesting, how much Jordan is saying. He
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: throws gives us Matt this character who has other people's
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: memories in them but has no voices in his head
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: and it should and ran and who has another man's
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: memories in his head and a voice. And he gives
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: us this very clear paradigm of yes, you can have
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: you can have other men's memories and not be insane.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: And Rand has a voice in his head, so he's
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: clearly insane, and people like, no, RAN's not insane. He
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: just has He just has another man's memories. And it's like,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: so does Matt. So does Matt no voices, right, he
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: doesn't hear the old generals. He just incorporated the memories
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: into them. And I think that that's what what's amazing about,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: like the moment on Dragon Mount is how much Jordan
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: gave us a model for what Rand could become. This
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: you know, Matt integrated his memories and became the battle general,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: became this great hero unintentionally, and if Ran could have
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: done the same thing earlier, he could have been this
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: great channel or great you know, all these things. But
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: the madness almost prevented that from happening, despite the fact
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: that it was only the taint that allowed it to
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: happen in the first place. So, you know, real time
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: circle about it, Yeah, right, right, right right.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: I think it's also cool in here that we learned
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: that Brigida and getel Caine were pretty instrumental to helping
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the White the founding of the Like, yeah, you would
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: need some heroes to create an institution that does what
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the White Tower does over all that time.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: I would love the story of the founding of the
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: White Tower. Jordan hints at it a few times, but
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: we never get it right. We know it was these
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: these isid I who survived the breaking, who you know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: journeyed for a long time and then came back together
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: and created the White Tower. But there was no oath Rod,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: there was no odd Jaws.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Right, I just were very different than than they were.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And then they're literally like projects.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: They were like temporary associations. They ranged in number of
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: how many there were.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: They they're like committees.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, very very different. So there's so many good
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: stories there.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: It was just a more flexible, larger institution than and
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: it currently is. You know, now it's this high bound
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: you know traditional thing.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean it was it was embryonic back when
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: she was involved, which also makes me think, like, so
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: souls retain their ability to channel across lifetimes, right.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, there's but there's also a genetic component, and so
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: there it seems to be you need both. You need
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: a body that can channel and a soul that retains it.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems like Burgita's not a channeler, right,
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: and yet she was involved. Her and Guidle were involved
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Integraley and helping the White Tower come into existence. That
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: implies so much about how much the Tower needed non
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: channelers at its early days in order to get established,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: even though they're all high and mighty now, like, they
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: used to need real people, not just warters.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Well, in what quest did they go on? What did
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: they find? What did they what area? You know, what
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: was on the island before the tower?
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Right? Who was attacking them?
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: While the Tower still didn't have walls, where did they
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: get their foo from? Before they established all of their
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: tribute relationships with the different kingdoms? How did they find
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the island in the first place?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: How did they bring people in safely across the dangerous
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: like Wilderlins. I guess so many stories where Brigida and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: gottl could have been their over generations over the different
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: centuries that the Tower was existing. They could have been
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: reborn repeatedly to help with that. It certainly implies it
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: here that it was more than one lifetime For me.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I always thought it was just the one lifetime during
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the founding of the White Tower. I think it's just
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the like because the tower was founded what twenty eight hundred,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: twenty five hundred years ago, because it was after the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Breaking but before the Troloic wars.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was pretty quick because there were still some
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: ISAIDI who remembered the pre breaking world when it got founded.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I guess maybe it was just the one lifetime.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But still you could make so many books about it.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: You could make so many books about it'd be so cool.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Good because I assume those are the same, is said
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I who created the eye of the world and.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: The well those all to make it pure.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Oh that's true. Well, no, because there was m okay, yeah,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you're right.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's explicitly part of how that pool of siding
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: came into existence was human sacrifice.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't sure if there were some other ones
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: who were like masterminding it and stuff and who.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Like, oh well, I mean yeah, sure, for sure, we
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: have no idea how many people knew what the plan
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: was and helped it happen. In less dramatic wise, that's
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: super super.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: True, assuming you need a big organization to create you know.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So you know, here's here's my headcanon philosophy. What if
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: one of the original missions of the White Tower was
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: around creating the Eye of the World, and then that
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: group of people that survived stayed together and formed a
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: group of Channelers who went on to found the White Tower.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, we certainly saw what looked like a proto
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: White Tower, not proto White Tower, but like a pre
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: breaking White Tower organization arguing about what to do with
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: the sword and the banners visions. So certainly some of
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: people who were part of the institution would try to
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: retain the institution and like reinoculate a new institution with
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: their old structure, Like that makes sense.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And thinking that you need a large group of people
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: to do everything they did to create calendar, the Eye
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: of the World, all that kind of stuff, like you're
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: going to need a large group that's going to continue
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: to why would the organization break up? And then where
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: would they come from?
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: So, what what if the creation of the Eye of
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the World, the greatest world need the world ever had
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: was the creation of the White Tower. In fact, I
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: have nothing to do with the Pool of s Idin.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: It was just like.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Institutional catalyst, Yeah, exactly exactly.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It just needed the institution of the White Tower and
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: the creation of the Eye of the World triggered.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: That I hate the idea that our ultimate destiny is
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to manifest a bureaucracy. I don't like.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Dark friends.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now that's Adam's level of absurdity.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, can you can you imagine writing a
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: whole series about a savior who sacrifices to create like
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: a terrible bureaucracy that just rules everybody's lives.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: This is literally Douglas Adams. No, no, that's terrible, don't
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: do it.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: And like it's like I have brought freedom to all
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: of you, freedom to fill out form FB seven five.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: God, it's like Terry Gilliam, I hate this all right,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: bringing you back to the books. Guyband says, well, at
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: least we're gonna have isody of our own to fight back,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: to take the Lady Elaine back and forget us.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, no, no, they're dead.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: We don't have those, guybus like, so that's yeah, that's
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: gonna make the day interesting and just soldiers on because
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: he's a solid guy who definitely deserves to be Elaine's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: next order income.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: A couple of the wise ones. These are the ones, sorry.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: The c folk right, yes, no, the kids women.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: The Kins women. Sorry with too many groups of women.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: These are two Kins women. Julie Anna helps take out the.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Golm Oh she does. She helps with Matt doing his
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: his Oh very cool.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Let me double check that that makes.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Sense because a lot of what these women are doing
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: is using gateways to get around. So it makes sense that, yes,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: with him weaponizing a gateway to get rid of that fucker.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, m hmm. Yeah, so she's one of the ones
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: he recruits to help him take out take out the goal.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: They're the ones are just groups of the kin who
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: are just you know, generic can people know nothing unique
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: about them. They're in scenes, but they don't do anything
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: other than be with the.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Kin, right. They're like in pairs so that they can
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: make gateways that are big enough to pass through. We've
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: been using them for books, will continue using them as
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: just generalized messengers. But that is cool that this one
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: is part of killing the golomb or eliminating the Golomb.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I should say, we don't know if he dies. So yeah,
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: they're here too report on the neutral armies moving. That's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: been their job is to keep an eye on them,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: and so now they are reporting that, Hey, keeping an
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: eye on them was a good idea. They're moving. Brigida says,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: thank you very much, go, you know, clean up, because
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: you are you are not here for battle that you're
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: just here to bring information, so you know, thank you dismissed.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: I one hundred percent think that they basically were waiting
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: for Aramela to move. They saw her move and they're like, well,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: somebody's going to win this battle. We're gonna sit there,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: wait until we see an opportunity and then influence it.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe take over the stiege works, maybe not. Either way,
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: we're going to move in and steal a base. They're
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: basically going for stealing a base at this point now.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The only I guess it would be interesting if
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: we had some evidence that Arammella had contact with the
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Black Audja, because then it would be the Black Aujas
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: sent up the flag for Aarmela to attack when they
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: captured a lane, right, and that tread then triggered everything
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: else that happens.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, could be could be not sure if that happened,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: but that's how it might have worked.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: That's not how it might have worked. And Aramella just
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: you know, she's influenceable enough that maybe they had a
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: contact that told her when to go.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Or you know, she's not hard to lead.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: No, we don't. We spend a fair amount of time
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: seeing all the corruption around her, but we don't. She
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: could be influenced by one hundred different people. Like there,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: we're not in her head enough to know what happened
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: that caused her to attack in this moment.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Which is a little annoying, but also like whatever, it's fine.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: So then, yeah, the women get sent off, and then
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the sea folk come in and start being ce folk
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: all over the place.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess basically what I wanted to say is
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: they're not even willing to heal because they see that
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: as taking part in the fighting.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Which is yeah, I think that's a pretty rude line
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: to draw. Personally, I get it, like geopolitically I get it,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: but also like it's healing.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Come on, right, these people maybe say, like, I'll heal
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: these warriors if they don't go back into battle, right,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: but like people are dying help them.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Like they're out of the battle regardless, but
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: I will allow them to go back to their lives.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: It feels like a line you could draw. But no,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: we're just gonna be MANI pants.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the connection that I did find with Aramella,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: it's not with the dark friends, but it is with
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: the mercenaries who are rebelling from inside. They are paid
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: off by Aramella to do that, right, So she is
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: attacking the mercenaries. Attacking from the inside. Did trigger her attack?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Right? And wasn't Melar in contact with the mercenaries?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: Possibly didn't he.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Go to So let's look at the ones who'd betrayed.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I'm tracing down this connection because I think it exists.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I think we can figure it out. Who are the
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: mercenaries Baca Vaughan, but Cordawin and Gon are the other
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: two that betray them. Let's see, those.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Are the ones that didn't betray them. They're they're fighting
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: the betrayers.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: No, the only one who doesn't betray them is Bacuvan.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Oh really? Oh wow? I thought it was all three
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of them. Nope, Nope, shows what my reading comprehension is. Oh,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: him and a dozen of his men. Not yes, okay, okay,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: that's where I was getting confused. It is him and
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: multiple people, but it's not the other captains. It's his
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: personal people.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, yeah. So the only thing I'll say is
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: these guys did come into the palace to meet with
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Elane and demand more money.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we saw them with him than with back of him,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: like all three of them.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Right, So you know, it's tough for me to connect
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: them with Handlin exactly, but they certainly Hanlin had the
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: opportunity to connect with them, and there could certainly be
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: some dark friend rey going on, but they could just
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: be betrayed Ara Milla. Yeah, and it could just be
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: a coincidence that the dark friends and Handling gets tracked
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: down the same day that Aaron Miller is. It's one coincidence,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: It's not everything else can be tracked down to araon
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Milla bribing these guards.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: And attacking right, Yeah, I agree.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So well, I don't I'm not too worried about the
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: single coincidence here.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I do wish I could connect them.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate the effort, but yeah, it's it seems
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: like we're just gonna have to let it be a coincidence.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: M hm.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: So yeah. Basically, Brigida says, I need you to make
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: me a gateway. Shanela says, I want that to be
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: a formal exception to the bargain, and Brigidia very casually
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: side steps that. Yeah, you know, notice like Shanella like
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: goes for the kiss on the lips with the fingers
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to lips thing to like seal the bargain, that that's
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: all she has to do, and Brigina just turns away
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: and says, you only have to do what you want.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: Yep, there's no bargain. You do what you want.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Is this is not a bargain. This is a you
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: choosing to take actions of your own free will.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Because you want your previous bargain to be you know, enforced,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: and if the person you made it with is dead
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: or kidnapped, there's no one to have that bargain with.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: And that's where the title of the chapter comes from.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: In order to keep the bargain, you have to violate
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: terms and conditions of said bargain.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Right right, And of course the icon s folk, because
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: the sea folk violating the.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Bargain exactly to keep the bargain that makes the sea
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: folk very very happy. You're gonna have to do something that,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: as sea folk, is going to make you pretty pissed.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: And then we have this moment where Brigitta is whispering
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: instructions to Guibond, and I think in that moment, she's
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: basically saying, she's telling him the plan right of you
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: guys are going to have to march into this. It's
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: going to have to look bloody. It's going to have
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: to look hopeless because I need the wind Finders to participate.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Don't be clever, don't don't play smart games. I need
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: you to just run straight into the dragon's maw, Like
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: that's what I need from you desperately because I'm playing
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: nine games with these bitches. Yeah, I agree. She's telling him, like,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you're clever, you could do something clever, but don't I
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: need you to do the not clever thing.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: And also just like an apology of like, I'm sorry,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of men are going to die too.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: But she says that loudly. Yes, yes, she doesn't have
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: to whisper that to him. She's like, we're going to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: lose a lot of people. Hopefully it's worth it. But yeah,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I agree. But now she's saying is to say, I
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: need this to look as awful as possible. Don't try
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: to limit casualties. Please.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: It's been raining lately, it's not that long since the
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Bowl of the Winds was used.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Still I think just the seasonal I mean, we're just
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: we're into the seasons again. We're having seasons again, but
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: it's still over correcting a little bit, right, and so.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: We're getting just crazy amounts of rain for spring in
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: quotes because these like it's making up.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a winter spring hybrid.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because we kind of missed winter entirely.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: Winter has been playing catch up.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so like winter happened really quick in Winter's heart
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: and now it's the spring officially again, but like.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the celestial year is spring, but yeah, the
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: weather is still very much like winter.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: And then there's a lot of mud because everything was
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: frozen dead and now it's innated with water. Yeah, where
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: he to kind of in her own head justifies it
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: being like these men said they were gonna die for
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: a lane, so they're dying for a lane.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Which I mean, she's not wrong, it's just because this
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: is a particularly brutal battle doesn't change the like ultimate
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: math of like these men did sign up to take
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: on a lethal job. In any given day they go
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: into battle, they could die like that. That is true,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It's just extra. It's a really brutal battle and a
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: lot of casualties.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: It's it's and your strategy depends on there being casualties.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And like, I'm not a military historian, but I know
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that this is not an unheard of strategy. And I
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: mean not the Windfinder's part, but the you know, just
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: war of attrition. I have more bodies to throw at
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: this than you is, like, that's that's the thing people do,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: and it's fucking awful. But it also does occasionally, you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: achieve its military objective, at which point people get praised
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: as being you know, brilliant generals or whatever, and there
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: And I do I do think some of the frustration
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: with Elaine comes from the idea that like, all these
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: people really didn't have to die if she'd been more careful,
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: and that she doesn't really seem to give them the
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: thought that they deserve because suddenly she's queen and victorious
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't seem to be the mourning for the
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: dead that I think many people want to see.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she thinks about it, like briefly as Brigitta helps
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: her out of the wagon, but that's it. She should
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: have built a war monument or something to all the
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: people she get killed with her recklessness.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Right, and it's like, my babies will be fine. So she,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: like the last line here, right in this whole chapter,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: the bond never carried a hint of fear because she
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: just is like, well, my babies will be fine, and
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: it's too young for me to be hurt in them.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: And it's like so she's just not afraid, and it's like, okay,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: but like, shouldn't you be afraid for the other people
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: who are dying? Shouldn't you be afraid for the like
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Brigida and the wind Finders.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: And just because these men said that they were willing
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: to die for you, doesn't mean that they should die.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: It would be cool if you could send them home
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: to their families instead, Like that would be optimal.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Like you should be a little less cavalier with your
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: cavalry maybe, but.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It is, I mean, in a lot of ways you are.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: So here's how I think about it, Jordan writing, people
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: charging an entrenched encampment with machine guns and enough people
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: basically have to die until you can call an air support,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: and how realistic that is to actual war, and that
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: it might actually be the strategy of like a general
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: might be like, I'm gonna have to throw enough soldiers
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: at this that enough die that I can justify calling
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: in an air strike to the higher ups. Yeah, I
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: wonder if that's a thing.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's gnarly. It's very gnarly. I don't like war.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's bad. And yeah, Fouji and chat Men
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: may have made one of the worst mistakes of the
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: books by talking about the having those babies born healthy
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: and strong, like giving that prophecy may have been her
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: largest mistake.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, she does talk about how she really hates
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: giving out information about the prophecies because sometimes telling people
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: about the prophecies causes them, right, Like trying to avoid
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: death causes it, right Like that's the monkey's paw of it. Yeah,
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: this is nothing you can do avoid it because anythink
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you do to avoid it will pull you right back
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: into doing the actions that force you into it. It's
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: that weird time travel paradox of like what if you
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: couldn't What if no matter what you did, and when
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: you travel back in time, you couldn't change anything because
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: time just so corrected and forced you back onto the path,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: right Like, that's kind of the pattern doing its thing. Yeah,
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: because for me, the idea was always like, if you
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: do anything that changes history, you kind of instantly cause
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: a paradox that closes that loop and shuts it down.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: And so the only possible path forward are ones where
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: you don't create paradoxes, which are ones where you don't
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: change anything.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Right, And maybe that's why time travel hasn't been invented.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of reasons. But yeah, and that
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: gets me on my other favorite rant. But we live
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: in a seven dimensional world, not a three dimensional or
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: four dimensional one, right, because up, down, left, right, forward, back,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: and time forward those are seven dimensions, not three. Anyway,
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: moving on time's the only one that doesn't have the
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: symmetrical all the other directions have to seems suspicious, yeah, right.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Brigida thinks about how women are weak and should use
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: ranged weapons instead of swords.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that, like, because
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: it is pretty accurate, right, like physical strength when you
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: were going up in a wrestling or sword on sword,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: there is an average strength difference between men and women.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just it's one of those it's a weight
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: class thing, and there's lots of women and men who
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: don't fit into the women and men weight classes. So
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: it's like the simple truth is, unless you're Gwendolin Christie,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you're probably gonna need to be better. But you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: if you're Briann of Ptarth like this, you are inherently
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: stronger than almost every source person that you're dealing with. Like,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: so it's just one of those it's very nineties and
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: it's very I mean, that's two thousands at this point
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: because everyone still thinks that will Obviously, women are weaker
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and less strong and less capable, and that's the why
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: we have the Women's Olympics, so that way the girlies
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: can have a chance to win some medals when like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: in fact, like it's the the way around. We have
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: it so that the boys fefees don't get hurt. But
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: you know, so it's I think it's Burgita's bow bias
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: coming in. Really, I think this is mostly Brigda's bow
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: bias more than anything else. She just thinks that swords
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: are inferior, truly.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Sure, right, right, right, right, Okay, Well I come from
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: a swimming world, right, but I will say in swimming
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: there is a significant difference, Like the top female swimmers
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: cannot compete with top male swimmers in terms of like
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: because it's just raw time, right, Like there's minutes, no,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: not minutes, but there's a significant difference in those top
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: top ranges.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's too much sport detail for me.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: That's something I grew up, you know. It's just it's
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: crazy to me because you know, as a high schooler,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I was an Olympic level. If I'd been a female swimmer,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I could have gone to the Olympics and.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Like one, right, like you were doing those times.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: I was doing those those levels of the times. Never
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: that is yeah, yeah, you know, and and like and
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I was at best, you know, pretty good in my
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: state as a male sommer, you know, and like it's
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: just it. You can't there were exceptions, but the idea
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: of having the male swimmers and the female swimmers compete,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: it wouldn't It just wouldn't have worked, right.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: But there's other ways to weight class people than just
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: by their genitals, right, And that's that's what I wish
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: we saw more of, as people being just like actually
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: weight classed. And like maybe there's gender dynamics and patterns
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: that you see in that, but like maybe there's not
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: because on a per sport basis like, eh, you know, well.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: That's what I mean, and I'm trying not to if
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: we want to get in the hold trans Ofbate Like
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: we don't know, Okay, it's just like I've lost the
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: plot of where we were in this chapter entirely.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, where oh are? Okay? I think okay,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I think we're going to come back to the book
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: at Reeen Harford running fully running to Brigida with a
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: wounded guardsman into to bring the news that there is
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: now a rebellion inside low Camlin of cell swords to
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: add to this stew So there's an attack coming from
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: the outside and Elaine is being kidnapped and now there
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: is an attack coming from the inside. This is the
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: final piece of shit hitting the.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Fan right right right. And we know that the attack
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: on the inside where the mercenaries bribed bear Air Miller
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: to do that attack. So that is a coordinated things. Yes,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: And as we know, it's three of the four mercenaries
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: are attacking the farm matting Gate. One is still defending.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: We have cordowin Goma Sin and there's one more. But
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: there's one more back. OHA's the good one. Give me
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: a second.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yes, there's three or four companies, and then we
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: get three names and we know one of them is okay.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: So the last one is Rice Balaman. Oh yeah, b
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: A L A M A N. So he was in
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Knife of Dreams, chapter seventeen, Knife of Dreams when Aaron
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: Miller bribed the okay and yeah, yeah so and Elaine
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: signs his death warrant later, gotcha.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so only back event of all the mercenary captains
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: stays loyal. He does get killed, I believe in this altercation,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: but he gets killed on the right side, so, you know,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: good for him.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: And so.
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: Does he not get killed?
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't think so, I thought he Blaine. He he
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: requests a reward from Laine for doing for never mind,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: and she didn't. She's like, nope, nope, you don't get
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: a reward, you just for doing your job. He's like,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: what the fuck I say to your Kingdome, I'm with
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: the Actually yeah yeah, I saw her logic, But like, I.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Mean a small bonus for like acts of heroism. Sure yeah, yeah, tipping,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah, sure, tipping for excellent service.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah right right right right?
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, so he doesn't die. Cool, So yeah,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: This is where they split the army yet again. Dilond
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: leave me all of the horse and a thousand halbred men.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: You take the rest and all of the crossbow and
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: archers and everyone you can find who can hold a sword,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: and go take that gate or hold it. And she
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: then Diland then takes all the kids because their bannerman
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: will fight better with the kids present, you know, Conil, Caitlyn, Bramlet,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: and Paravl.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I didn't understand why Caitlin doesn't go. Is
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: it just because she's a woman and the other ones
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: are boys?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: No, she does go, Okay, she does go. She is
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: in that list. And Kitlyn says I want to stay
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: and help with or Catalan says I want to stay
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: and help rescue a lane, and Daland says you're going
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: to go wherever I say you need to go.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Got you okay? Okay, I got that backwards. I thought
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: she was arguing to stay or whatever. I got that backwards.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So they take off and Brigida is left to
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: try to, you know, basically play chicken with the sea
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: folk until they decide to rescue a lane. Then Guy
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Bond does his part, you know, the legion b advance
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: to quote bornhald in book two.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: And Briita. You know, Janelle's like, you didn't need a
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: gateway this big, And Brigda's like, come with me, and
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: She's like what. And I love this little bit where
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: she says she relies on human nature because they're bonded together.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: She expects the rest of them to follow the leader
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: through the gateway.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I know, this woman is probably the one leading the circle,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: so if I pull her through, the rest will not
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: be able to resist the human urge to follow the leader.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Follow the leader.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Also interesting that you know going through a gateway, the
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: link goes through the gateway. Yeah right, and doesn't really
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: because they say it attenuate attenuates with distance.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I guess it would get really weak until
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: all of them came through.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Well that's the question. Or would the link just go
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: through the gateway.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Until the gateway winks out and then yeah? Yeah, but yeah,
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: Brigitta is just like people like to follow the leader.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: These are very hierarchical people. If I grab the leader
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: and joink her through, the rest will be inclined to
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: not question the urge to follow. And yeah, they come through,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and she's able to spot the wagon and go, ah,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: there she.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Is and sees that Aramella's camp is empty, right like,
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: so all it's a full assault. All twenty thousand of
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: Aramla soldiers are probably at the gate which again, big assault, right,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: twenty thousand soldiers. That's a lot of soldiers.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: And ten thousand mercenaries on the inside, all rising up
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: at once. That's it's a lot of people.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of people fighting in a baut like
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Camelan is no stranger to death in battle.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Now the streets are running red with blood like a
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Roman city during a civil war, right like, that's.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Where we're at and okay, so and with all those
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: soldiers coming through, it's interesting, she says, you didn't need
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: a gateway this big, but it's still like it takes
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: a long time for the soldiers to make it through,
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: so that she kind of did. I don't know, that
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: wasn't really clear to me because like the windfinders can't
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: get back through because all the soldiers streaming through the gateway.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's she didn't technically need it, but it was
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: handy and given how rapidly the situation was evolving, Yeah,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I did think she needed it.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: So they're basically waiting just outside the city. They're waiting.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: They jumped ahead of the caravan. This entire time, the
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: caravan of Black Sisters has been trying to escape the
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: city high you know, inner Camelin and then lower Camelin.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And just as they leave Lower Camelin, Brigita jumped them
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: outside the city, but on a ridge closer. There's a
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: ridge between them and Ara Milla's camp, right, yeah, air milis.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: So they're between air Miller's camp and the city. Yeah,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: which is kind of an ideal place to attack an
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: army from behind.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very vulnerable spot between that ridge and
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: the city walls. That's a very vulnerable spot you want
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: to not linger in. And Burgida's got the high ground
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: looking down on it, and it's just a small contingent
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: of you know, however, many hundred soldiers and seven eyes
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to die. It's not like a big army thing that
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: she's facing down in this moment.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Except for the seven is sid eye.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Except for the seven I sidye, one of whom is
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: wielding a bailfire rod.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah right right. And these are dark friend you know,
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: ice are black job, These aren't is dread lords. Basically,
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: these are dread lords.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, Chanella's like, what did you want
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: me to see? What do you want me to see?
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: She keeps asking like why are you dragging me around?
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: What do you want me to see? And Burgida eventually
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: is like world War one. I would like you to
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: observe World War one and then bring magic into the equation.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, enjoy the horrors of World War One and try
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: and stand there and do nothing.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, your bargain is low unless you bring an end
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: to this completely horrifying carnage. So what do you say?
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: And it's I like the way they say the air
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: smells sharp, which is I think ozone, right, because they
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: don't say I was like in fantasy, they never say
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: ozone because we just describe the smell as ozone. But
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: that's not a very fantasy friendly world.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: It's always sharp, it hurts, It makes you feel like
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: your nose is going to bleed, Like that is a
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: very good way of describing ozone.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: But yeah, and there's this moment where everybody asks to
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: sacrifice for a lane and join the carnage, and it's
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: just it's very noble and stupid. I do not.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Understand that kind of courage. I just know I'm not cut.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think I could do it. No, I like
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: my body too much.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm way too risk averse to be. Like
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: permission to join the running into machine gun fire for
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: the honor of the band. Nope, nope, I absolutely not
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Like permission to never have enlisted in the army. That's
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: more like my vibe.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean, it's just yeah, I wonder, you know,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: when we never had to do that, and I just
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: I wonder being born into a different age where like
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I had to enlist, What would I have how would
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: I have reacted to that? Right?
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Well, in an ideal world, being involved in that sort
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: of thing could just be, like, you know, cleaning up
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: after disasters and building bridges doesn't have to be deployment
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to a combat zone. In an ideal world, could could
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: just be you help build city parks.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Could be fine.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: But we don't live in that world, so no, we don't.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm glad I didn't that. I'm very glad
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: that the draft was done by the time I was born.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Brandon was very anxious until he got out of
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: draftable age. Like it, you know that moment when you
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: cross that threshold and are not draftable anymore unless they
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: change the rules broadly. It's like.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: It's kind of a crazy thing that you have. Like
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: when you turn eighteen, they send you this paperwork that like,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: if you don't fill this out and tell us that
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: you are you know, okay with being drafted, we will
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: like come arrest you. Like it's it's it's kind of crazy.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: If you want student loans, you have to go on
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: our list. Like you can't get your student loans without
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: like signing up for this. Like it's so it's so weird.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Predatory on the poor again because we guess what rich
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: people can do not sign up because they don't need
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: student loans?
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Ye right, why do they always send the poor?
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: So yeah, this beginning part dive on basically approaches at
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: a walk. They do that first half just I mean,
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: is this slow walk with us? I think it has
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: to be orders, right, because the second they starts blowing
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: shit up, I would want to run.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's when he says, you know, like trot charge,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Like he escalates the speed even though it's too soon,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: because the best way to not get hit is to
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: be moving. But yeah, he gets everyone to move forward.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: Rather than away, which is impressive.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: Men are still coming out of the gateway, galloping or
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: running to catch up. Fireballs fell among the ranks too,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: now adding their own eruptions of dirt, arms, legs. A
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: horse's head spun lazily into the air lazily, which is
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: just you know, the kind of explosion where it's just like, oh,
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: that's just gonna drift. That's so high and so much
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: energy that it just sort of, yeah, lifts up at
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: the top of the arc for a long time before
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: falling back down.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: It's like when you watch a volcanic eruption and the
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: rocks look like they're moving really slow and in slow motion,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: and why is the air so thick that the rocks
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: are moving so so No, it's just the sheer distance
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: that they're traveling.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: There's just yeah, the speed and the distance they're then
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: the size of the rocks, right like.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like the parallax is tricking you. That's a very
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: different size and distance of rock than you think you're
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: looking at, right, And so.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's all these references. You know, there's bailfire. A
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: bunch of them get bail fired out of existence.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Right yeah, and the bailfire rod is very like erratic,
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: like it's really hard to control and see it step
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: up into the sky and down into the ground and like.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: It's got recoil.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, yeah, she's trying to use a shotgun, but
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: like as a handgun, and like it's it's going badly
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: for her shoulders.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: Short bursts, control bursts, right, Like don't try and hold
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: the trigger down, you'll lose control.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Right, she's not bracing correctly for the weapon at all.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, she's really not. But yeah, I mean,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: and this is the same bailfire rod we saw inten Chico.
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, And I guess the same woman wielding it,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's the same routine.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: She's the only one stupid enough, slash brave enough to
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: wield it. Yeah. There were a good many dead, though
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: not so many as that seem there should be. Brigida
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: had seen the same in battles during the Trollock Wars,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: where the power had been used for every man who
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: lay still, two or three were staggering to their feet
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: or trying to stem a flow of blood. Right, This
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: idea that like casualties, you know, people get injured, but
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: those injuries don't necessarily kill them, and your casualties can
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: be you know, a certain percent, and then of those casualties,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: maybe a third of our deaths, and with the one
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: power healing, a lot of those casualties can become not casualties, right.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I highlighted that paragraph too, because it's one of
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the things that like always bothers me in movies that
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: make conflict too simple. Is like, oh, so everyone accepts
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: the good guys died instantly upon receiving their wounds, but
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: then this other guy who's an important part of the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: plot is alive for hours in a pile of bodies
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and manages to like drag himself out and get stitched
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: up later. But none of the other bad guys had
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: wounds like that. And it bothers me because it's like
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: that this feels much more realistic that, like, there's lots
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: of people out of the fight, but not all of
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: them are dead.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of people get hurt and can
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: still fight, right, Like what if you you know, you
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: get like a slight a couple of bad cuts, and
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: you just wrap them in something tight that staunches the bleeding,
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: you can keep fighting, right, Like I've had to keep
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: fucking cooking when I've cut myself badly, right, Like it's
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: you know, you kind of you cut yourself. You go, oh,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: that's a bad cut. Okay, wrap it up, throw a
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: bandage on top, and you stand back up and you
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: keep fighting. And adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: It is, It really is.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: When like it's like, okay, you have to kill, you know,
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: fight or die, right, and you're like, well, I'm bleeding,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: but if I can keep going, I'm going to.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And also, like the aftermath of battle, once the
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: battle's over, you have a lot of wounded to like
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: deal with. Otherwise you have people dying of sepsis out
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: on the field over the next several days, right, Like
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: you have to go out there and pick through them
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: and figure out who's dead and who can be saved,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: who can be triaged like and deal with that both
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: enemy and friendly guy alike. And most most stories do
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: not cover that part of battle. No, that's that doesn't
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: happen unless it's plot relevant.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: And we do have a little bit of that wheel
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: of time, but they kind of shortcut it with Isidi healing,
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: where it's like they just walk round among the field
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: and they're like, okay, you're healed. Okay, you're healed. Okay,
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: you're healed.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: At least they respect the fact that people need. Yeah,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: but yes, they also use magic handwaving quite literally to
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: skip all the gnarly parts.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, because it is it's this, it's this binary thing.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: You're alive, you're dead. If you're alive, they can heal
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: you back to full health. If you're or missing a limb.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: If you're dead, you're dead, and there's nothing they can do. Right.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah, they Brigida, you know, they're like, ah, this
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: is horrible. I want to get away from here. And
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Brigida says, well, then make it stop, like right, yeah,
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: and I just I love that, Like, then.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: Stop it, right, that's all you have to do. You
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: have the power. There's your eight people linked, you know,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: it's seven verses eight. But she's like this that we
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: have one.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: It's a circle versus individuals, like right.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: And that that gives them the ability to just bring
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: a very very one big stick and you can, you know,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: take that big stick and crush each each person individually
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: with seven times their power.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, And you know Brigida's knowing in her
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: heart I will find a lane inevitably, but in order
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: for a lane's you know, large, your political ambitions, in
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: order for the sea folk bargain, in order for the
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: victory of the light in broad we got to do
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: it this way. And that's what she's doing.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Aren't these the sea folk that use the Bowl of
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: the Winds as well?
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: I believe it's some of them, but not all of them,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: But they were picked for their strength in.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: The one power, I believe, so, yes, And.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: So that's it's probably not just a circle, but a
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: circle of very strong channelers.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And as soon as they choose to
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: join the battle, it's over.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: It's over. It's almost instantly. Yeah. So we get the
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: one strike of lightning where she basically the one with
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: the bailfire rod is killed with lightning because that, yeah,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: it's about time, right, like yes, someone is like okay, yeah,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: that's that's too dangerous, Like you are too too dangerous.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: You're done, Like you're done, And then they just shield
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: and tie up with alive.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Because he knows Elaine's gonna want prisoners to question.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: M And then Guybond kind of does that thing where
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: they're like yelling and dying and charging, and then the
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: dying stops and they all kind of stumble to a
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: halt and go, oh, we won.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah this last paragraph, Guybond raised his hand, slowing the
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: charge to a walk. It was remarkable how short a
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: time it had all taken. He was less than halfway
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: to the wagon. Men mounted and a foot were still
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: pouring out of the gateway, swinging into the dune. Saddle
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: brigade galloped toward a lane. Bloody woman, She thought the
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: Bond had never once carried any hint of fear. But
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: I just love that that Guybond. He doesn't even make
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: it to the wagon. The charge was the important part,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: and he just waits until the battle's over and then
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: he can pull up and be like, all right done charging. Yeah,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: did my job. That's all I had to do. Yep,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: he didn't have to fight at all. All he had
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: to do was run into a hail of fire and
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: bail fire and just hope for the best. That's all
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: he had to do. He's a good good.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: That's all material. Does Guyvon end up with somebody's order?
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: I don't remember. Yeah.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Elaene thinks about taking him as a warder repeatedly and
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: it's I think very implied that like as soon as
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: she's had her babies and is like on to like
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: more administrative things, she's gonna be like you warder because
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: she loses Burgida by the end, right, She's agreed, right,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: she's gonna lose rand functionally, she has lost Burgita, like
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: she's gonna need a new one. And she thinks about
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: taking him as a warder a couple of times throughout
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: the actual Cannon books. So he's he's in his interview process.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: M h.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: And that's where I also would love to see Llewellyn
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: more as Agwayne's order right, like actual warders rather than lovers.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't even know that Elaine's gonna
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: sleep with Guibon. She might just like having a pretty
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: strong man around like that would be a fairy, Like no,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: just look pretty, be deadly, like that's all we need.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I really like Gaybon. I love knowing that
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: he's a real person from the fandom. That's fun. I
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: told you this a while back. His wife, this fan's
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: wife like won a contest and like submitted her husband.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, this is okay guy.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I like seeing him on page now that I know
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: that lore. It's very fun.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: It is. It's especially in the last three books. It's
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: crazy how many people I've met who those characters, like
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: new characters in the last three books are based on right, Like, yeah,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: it's a little weird. It's a little weird, but that's
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: what the fan that gets great about the fandom.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and keep her hatch at the Dusty Wheel is
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: both a real person and a thing that happens in
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: the books. Yeah, kind of strange, but I love it.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: And then there's just a handful of other people who,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: you know, I know that character is kind of modeled
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: after them, you know, I don't. I'm not going to
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: say their names because I will get them wrong, but
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: I was.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I was recently told that my name has been used
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: as inspiration for a character in a book. Now, oh excellent, Yeah,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: is that okay? I'm like, yeah, that's that's very okay,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: it's very fine if if if you do that, that's cool.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: It should spread to all the fantasy, the era, the
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: just the this why is this name a radio associated
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: with libraries in every book I read?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: I don't understand that would be so.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: Great the library librarian radio running the like Book of Knowledge,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: and whatever reality whatever equivalent there.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Is, you know, news genre thing in the in the
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: culture of melee influence things for generations.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: A brown a you know, definitely a radius that eye
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: is running the towers secret history for sure. Yeah, it
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: just didn't appear, so.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: It's very secret.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Keep it secret and keep it safe.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: Well, that was that's fun. I love just these these conclusions,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: these battles that, you know, maybe not the most theory
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 2: heavy episode, but just fun action battle. I'm just trying
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: to break down exactly what's happening, why the characters are
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: doing what they're doing, who's reacting to to what stimulus
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: that sort of thing I think is fun with these chapters.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is it's satisfying. It's fireworks, it's big bad
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: of boom. You know, it's we don't always have to
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: be deep in the theory and deep in the lore.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we can just admire armies clashing.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: I'm rewatching Lord of the Rings really for the first time. Right,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: I've had it playing in the background a bunch of times, right,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: but I've never I haven't sat down and watched it
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: since it came out.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: And you're doing the extended versions, of course, I'm.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: Doing the extended versions. It's the only version it's good.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: In fairness, though I did see that. You know, I've
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: only probably really watched the original versions in theater, and
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: i'm you know, like so because that's the extended versions
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: weren't out. So yeah, I really really really enjoyed the
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: first movie.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's such a such a masterpiece, all three
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: of them.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: The second movie, I'll admit, we started doing some chores
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: and I got distracted and we didn't fit. It became
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: background noise again, which I hate doing. But the wedding
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: calls and I can't actually sit for like multiple hours
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: that often until I have chores to do and people
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: to call. And I'm so excited. I'm less than thirty
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: days out from the wedding. I've officially changed my name
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: to get Ready, so that because I've changed my name,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: and then she can take my new name in order
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: for us to both change our name. So I've officially
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: done that.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: It's so cool. Things are happening. We're on the final downslope.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: Things are happening, Like the shopping lists are done, the
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: plans are made the way, like, yeah, it's really Yeah,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be a tough couple of weeks for me, guys,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I've got one. What do we have one
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: or two more recordings? I think just just.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: One more if we stay with keeping September completely free.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I think, if anything, I might be willing to record
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: after the wedding. Sure in September, but I think I
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: am already saying, oh my god, I need time.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we just leave September open. You're gonna yeah, like,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you can waffle all you want, but I'm just gonna
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: leave September blocked out. And if you really want to
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: record something, we can like do some fun bonus content
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: for the Patreon like with the Together Last Minute, Like
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: the regular podcast is going on break for September. It's
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: just what it is. But if you really need some
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: recording to blow off some steam and like get back
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: into you rhythms, we can make some bonus content and
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: the Patreons would love that. I wanted to tell y'all
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: about a fun thing I did over the weekend. I
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: went out camping at a mixed ages autism camp on
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: the coast that my family's been part of for a while,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: and they do a talent show, and I decided to
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: bring a Radiopedia to the talent show, oh, to a
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: geology lecture as like as a Radiopedia, because my mom
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: was there, and my mom's who made me the Radiopedia outfit,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: so I wanted her to see it in action, right,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: So I just basically, did you know what I do
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: at all the cons right, find some excuse to rant
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: about geology at some point?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: What's so? Tell me the Radiopedia costume verbally?
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: So, all right, starting at my feet, there's these cool
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: little like lower leg bracer things that have like a
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: pink diamond that's all shiny and iridescent. And then I'm
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: wearing brown pants with a oat colored shirt. And then
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: this like lace up skirt like overgarment kind of thing,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: and it's like you know, a lace up bodice. It's
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: made out of leather, and like there's a long skirt
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: in the back and that's also a light brown as
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: more of a cream, and then that's yellow. And then
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: I've got like a ren fair belt on that holds
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: on like my stickers and stuff that I can hand out.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: I handed out stickers for our podcast and for hot
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: nuances nice at this and then also this beautiful velvet
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: with cutout patterns in it. Brown shawl with fringe. It's
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: like a scarf with fringe at both ends that my
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: mom scrouched from, like you know, she just found it
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: a second hand store. But it's perfect as a brown
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: aja shawl. And then of course the show ring on
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: my hand and the pre show ring on a necklace
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: around my neck and whatever nerdy rock earrings I happened
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: to have at the time, since my brother's dog ate
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: one of my brown Aujia earrings and so I only
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: have one now. Yeah, so that's that's a radiopedia.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you didn't make them out of dog treats, right,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: I know they're the right color, but like you really
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: shouldn't make them out of dog treats if you're gonna
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: give you around dogs.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, for sure that was a mistake on
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: the jeweler's part making them out of dog treats. But yeah,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: that's the Aridapda outfit.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: Actually would be a good way to get the the
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: whole dogs loveman and cats love. I said, I is
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: just like, have theaman carry on dog treats at all times.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: That's really what's going on, is that? Yeah, just the
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: I said I are just feeding the cat's treats all
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: the time and they just you know, you don't see
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: it on screen. Yeah, or my other theory that cats
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: can channel, they just choose not to. That's why they
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: like they like I said, eye, because they can see
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: that they have the oro channeling. The cats also can channel,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: and so they have that familiarity with them, and they
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: can sense the male channelers even though female chandlers can't
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: do that. So you know, the theory doesn't work like
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: they can do their cats they have their own rules. Yeah,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: there's like you know how shot shot Haran can like smell, right,
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: you know the two types. Yeah, they all have that.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: That's why doing that, like pt their nose open and
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: then they're smelling. That's they're smelling the power. That's what
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: that is. Shut her as a cat. Yeah, I mean
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: yeah basically man.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it was it was fun to bring
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: my little like, hey, anyone here know about Wheel of Time? Okay,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: so there's a fandom associated with the Wheel of Time,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: and this is an alter ego from that fandom. I'm
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: not from the books, I'm from the fandom of the
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: fen and then and then yeah, nice, you know five
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: minute lecture about geology the way that I do. And yeah,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: it was it was very very fun. No one else
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: thought to do info dumping as their special talent, so
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping to have inspired some copycats next year. Apparently
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: that was the first time anyone had ever info dumped
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: as a talent, and I was just like, now that's
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: a talent with a capital T.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 3: In my way, I.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: Might not see patterns around anybody or be able to
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: talk to wolves, but I can info.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: Dump, yeah, basically, and like it's an autism camp, so like,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: you know, come on, I know I'm not the only
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: one who can do this. So that that was that
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: was very a fun way to bring two of my
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: worlds together.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: I definitely info dumped on somebody about making yogurt the
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: other day. Nice well, because I have this this wonderful
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: Indian lady from Canada who works in the factory where
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: I work. You know, I think she really she cooks
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: for her family every night, and so we started talking
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: about cooking, right and just what we do, and and
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: of course I was like, oh yeah, and I started
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: making my own yogurt and her face always goes wide.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: She's like, basically, you know, She's like, I didn't know
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: white people could make their own yogurt. It's basically but
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: her face says.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean you know whitem people right right,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: right right exactly, Well, okay, fair enough, and so yeah,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: it was just it's fun.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: Then she's like, well, how do you make it? And
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: I ampo dumped and I was like and I was like,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: and I use this milk and she's like, oh, I
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: always get thin, watery yogurt when I use that milk.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: I was like, that's why I use a filter. And
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: I do you know a cheese cloth and she was like, oh,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: cheese cloth. I have never thought of that. What I
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: do is I use better milk and she should try
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: better milk. And I'm like, yeah, that's fair. So yeah,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: it's just we like having a little conversations about that food.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I bring her some food every once in
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: a while. So and please cut all that out so
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I don't get fired.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: Now, Well, just we'll stick with with my tails of
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: the weekend, which included also spraining my ankle very first
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: night drunkenly striding about the woods. You shouldn't do that,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you will roll your ankle and then roll
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: your ankle again on perfectly flat ground an hour later,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: because you've already rolled it once.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure we hear that in the fantasy books
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: of like don't run the horses in the dark, Like
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: that's all a whole thing where they constantly have to
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: stop running in the dark because they're afraid the horse
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: is going to step in a hole and roll an
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: ankle and die. And I'm pretty sure you've read these books.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty sure. So I've been walking off a rolled
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: ankle that bruised me pretty bad. It's been better than
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: it looks, because it looks pretty bad.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Pro tip guys, if you're if you're really drunk
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: and you know there's a bunch of tripping hazards, you
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: should maybe not go striding arm in arm with someone
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: quickly down the paths. Maybe maybe don't quite do that.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Can I just say my favorite thing about not drinking
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: anymore is how less frequently I hurt myself. Is real,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: it's real, It's very real. Like I mean I just remember,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: like I remember, you know, being on my bike and
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: falling into like kind of off the side of the
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: sidewalk into a slope and just taking all the skin
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: off my nose, and I remember recovering from that, the
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: number of times I've like, yeah, stubbed a toe or
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: twisted an ankle, or we'll get up the next day
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: hurt and not knowing why, you know, like those those
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: sorts of things. Right, I'm just like, oh man, I'm
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: glad I don't experience that anymore. I miss feeling normal
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: with that in quotes, but I don't miss the anxiety afterwards.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: I don't miss the hangovers. I don't miss the injuries.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that not being injured is
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: a normal way to be. That's that's a positive, that's
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: a normal, right. Not being injured as a good normal.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: Right, Right, So you know I'm struggling with I because
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: I do miss having being able to have a couple
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: of drinks, but my body has rejected it. So and
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: and now come to terms with like involuntarily becoming a
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: non drinker. In this society that's heavily centered around alcohol,
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: it's a weird place to be.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: The NA market continues to expand, it does, it does.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: There's always that, And then there is the California sober
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: that some people tend to enjoy well that's why I mean,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: and I'm trying not to if we want to get
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: in the whole trans debate, like we don't know, Okay,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: it's just like people, I don't whatever you identify at swim,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: swim with that group. I don't think for I think
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: there needs to be two different groups. But like if
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: you identify as one group with some swim, thanks, I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: think it should.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: Weight classes, like however you define that, but just the
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: concept of like people should go against people who are
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: roughly in their own bell curve and then you can
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: see who's best in that belt, right, because that's what's interesting.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: Like right, Yeah, swimming is hard because weight classes, Yeah,
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't wait, is such not a relevant
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: term for how fast you swim?
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: Sure, but like I don't know, lung capacity, limb length,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: whatever you gotta do.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: It's that's why it's so hard to define. It's so
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: hard to defind these categories.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: Purely by age. I don't know. I am very mad
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: on the concept of competition, so I'm really not the
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: person to be like having strong opinions.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: And it is interesting because if you if you look
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: at a swimming you know, women tend to get bigger
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: faster as they go through puberty, right, and meant they
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: still tend to have like does this this age where
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: women have hit puberty and men have it, right, And
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: in that age group the women are kick the boys
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: butts all over the cave place, and then very shortly
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: afterwards there's this just rapid curve where the boys get
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: a lot faster.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's just, you know, gender is this spectrum.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: I just wish that our competitions could be more interested
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: in like creating good competitions than in like creating unnecessary division.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: Like I just it was just I think it's more
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: about simplicity. It was just very easy to say, you know,
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: there's this obvious divibe where and let's be honest, transgender
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: people are a tiny minority, right so now not probably
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: a smaller minority than we know because of you know
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: all that.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: But even at thetime the biggest number of.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: The population right right, right, So it's it's been much
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: easier to just sort of use that as a as
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: a yard stick. And I think it's it's people getting
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: upset that the yardstick maybe doesn't apply in all situations
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: and that you just okay, we'll put that person in
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: that category. It's fine. I know they don't fully fit
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: the category. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, yeah, exactly.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: Exactly, Like, yeah, having a system that needs occasional adjustments
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: is way less frustrated. It's fine gate keepers who just
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: like stuck up their own butts about how shit can, right,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: it's like stop being stop giving autistic binary thinking such
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: a bad name, right.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and it's just like it's just nobody's nobody's
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: losing to non binary people in mass across. Nobody's changing
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: gender to win as fall.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: Nobody's doing that.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: Nobody's doing So that's that's really I guess that's what
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: it comes down to, is like if they want to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: be in a different gender, put them in that gender.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: And if they're kicking butt because they you know, had
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: some testosterone, and like I do see there's like maybe
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: some rules about like you have to be on a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: certain testosterone regiment for a certain amount of time. I
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think policing people's hormones is funny.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: It's not. Yeah, I don't, Yeah, it isn't. Yeah, I
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know your own levels.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: They have different chromosomes. It's just like it's not till
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: you get to this level of gate keeping that people
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: even start to know this much about biology and how
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: variable it is, and it's like this, no, shush.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's the other thing is it's like you just
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: have to let people swim swim, and I come back
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: to them someone of your category they want, because like
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: otherwise you have to like you have people who are
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: born literally non binary.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: Like in a way that's like intersex.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: It's a thing, intersex, thank you, that's the term I'm
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: looking for. Intersect you have people more intersects where they
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: might have these And that's the whole thing about the
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: chromosomes versus the phenotype versus the genotype, which we all
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: learned about my school biology, and.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: Even an argument for people with pcos being considered under
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: the intersex umbrella because we have such intensely different hormonal
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: profiles than normal women. Like it's like, no, I have
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a hormone profile that's pretty non binary actually, like that's
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: what the medicine says. Like, so yeah, it's just like
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: it's like when you do unit conversions and you add
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: more and more decimal points, it's like you think you're
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: being more but you're actually just making shit up that
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: is super irrelevant to the actual applied question of how
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: many apples do I have left? Like that's all we
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: fucking want. I don't need like eight decimal points. Just
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: give me a fucking round in tencher. How many apples
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: are we working with?
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: My favorite is when I put a ruler up to
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: somebody and someone starts giving me like these decimal points.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, well, the ruler only has one decimal point,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: so I don't know where you're coming up with those
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: numbers because the measurement device isn't that precise.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: It truly isn't it truly is.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: Uncertainty intervals is something that I struggled with in college
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: around engineering because I was like, well, an answer is
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: an answer, and they're like, well no, but what if
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: your ruler has tick marks there it is far apart
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: and You're like, it's somewhere between those two. You have
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: an uncertainty in that measurement, and then you do math
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 2: and how that uncertainty carries forward in the math and
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: creates an uncertainty in the results, And what if you
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: have multiple measurements, how do those uncertainties carry forward and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: combine and this is where you have, you know, in
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: any scientific paper confidence levels yep.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: And those those bar graphs that have the ranges around
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: them is like, yeah, yeah, the Losco bars And it's like,
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, we and a lot of science is just
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: trying to make those narrower on measurements we've already made.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: We're just roughing it in and then trying to refine
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: it a little bit. And yeah, it's you start getting
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: too lost in the weeds with doing that at like
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: human interaction scale events. It's you've lost the fucking plot,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: my friend, right right.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: Right, I've lost the plot of where we were in
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: this chapter entirely.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, where are Okay? I think okay, I
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: think we're going to come back to the book at
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: Reeen Harford. Thank you for listening to the Wheel of
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: Time Spoilers podcast. Rate us in the Apple Podcast app,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: or support us on Patreon.