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#0133_ STORY INSPIRE: When One Choice Changes Everything-- Luigi Vendittelli · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan Podcast
• 0:08
  by night. All day.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: We're up, gentlemen.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Hey, Joe.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Great to see you again, Bob.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Same here. Long time. Luigi.
• 0:17
  Speaker 4: Joe.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You are still to this day the most watched ever
• 0:22
  podcast we have ever done that's on YouTube.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: That's just unreal. It's unreal.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: It is unreal because it shows you how many people
• 0:32
  are just absolutely fascinated by the story.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: And what you guys have done in this new.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Film is essentially recreate S4 and using AI, recreate you
• 0:46
  as a young man in these experiences that you had.
• 0:49
  And it was really excellent. Luigi, you're the one who
• 0:53
  put the film together. You figured it all out and
• 0:57
  First of all, what was the technology that you guys
• 0:59
  used to recreate everything that we did?
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: I just want to say there's about 10% AI in
• 1:06
  the film, but there's 90% Blender. And that's actually handmade CGI.
• 1:12
  So everything you see is all handmade. And even the
• 1:17
  de-aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob. We went over
• 1:21
  to his house, scanned his face, took a process of
• 1:24
  de-aging him through that. then creating a digital model of
• 1:29
  Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment.
• 1:34
  And then in some instances at the very end, we
• 1:38
  perfected or kind of put a bow on it with
• 1:42
  a little touch of AI. But the whole thing is handmade.
• 1:45
  So the craft, the environment, the Papoose Lake, the facility,
• 1:50
  the equipment, and the people were all made. And some
• 1:53
  of the people are actually real actors that we put
• 1:55
  in there. So it's not– there's one of the guys
• 1:59
  that is Barry in the film is a guy called
• 2:02
  Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past
• 2:05
  10 years. And he laughs at it because he goes,
• 2:06
  I can't believe I'm Barry. Does he look anything like Barry?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Actually, he does.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: He does.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: That's why we chose him.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Where is the actual Barry now?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, I kind of thought at
• 2:19
  one point after all this happened, we would at least
• 2:23
  hear from one of those guys. But– I never heard
• 2:27
  from anybody after the initial release of all the information.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: It seems like, well, I don't know. If people are
• 2:37
  able to keep secrets for this long, it's got to
• 2:40
  be very difficult to just blurt it out. You're holding
• 2:45
  on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years. I guess.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: These guys were lifers, though. I mean, they spent most
• 2:53
  of their time there. They spent at least two weeks
• 2:55
  at a time and one week off. So they stayed
• 2:58
  at the base. I mean, these guys were hardcore. I
• 3:02
  had just come in on the project, you know, so
• 3:07
  I don't know. I don't know what happened to him.
• 3:08
  I'd love to know. I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died.
• 3:13
  I've seen people track him down, you know, all the
• 3:16
  way to point to. speaking to his family, and they said, yeah,
• 3:19
  he had some classified job out in the desert or something.
• 3:21
  And they showed me his gravestone and stuff. So, you know,
• 3:24
  at least they were able to track him down. But
• 3:27
  I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Rene
• 3:29
  or anybody like that.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: What is it like seeing the recreation of it in
• 3:36
  a film? Because, I mean, essentially it was your– direction,
• 3:44
  for lack of a better word, your description of it,
• 3:46
  you telling them exactly how everything was laid out, and
• 3:50
  then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like
• 3:53
  when you watch it?
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: Well, the final product is absolutely mind-blowing because, as I've
• 4:02
  said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that
• 4:06
  out of my brain. I mean, you know, you can
• 4:09
  describe something a hundred times and until you actually make
• 4:12
  a picture it doesn't become clear but you know this
• 4:17
  took years I think it was like five and a
• 4:20
  half years from when I first met Luigi and he
• 4:24
  said yeah I can do this and the quality kept
• 4:27
  improving to where he started showing me pictures and I
• 4:30
  went Jesus that's that's really it it's not really it
• 4:34
  it's really it and I mean it it blew me
• 4:39
  away Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where
• 4:43
  I could put goggles on and move around inside. I mean,
• 4:46
  that made the hair stand up on my arms. It
• 4:48
  was unbelievable. So I don't know if I could really
• 4:52
  describe how that made me feel, but it felt like
• 4:55
  I was teleported back there. And that's, you know, that's
• 4:59
  when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's talent. I said,
• 5:04
  you know, I'm behind this and flew out to Canada
• 5:07
  a couple times. I didn't have much to do with
• 5:08
  the film other than I guess a couple times going
• 5:12
  out there and going, no, that's right, that's the wrong color,
• 5:14
  move this here, do that. But those guys spent over
• 5:19
  three years working on it. And they never showed me anything.
• 5:25
  I'd speak to Luigi a couple times a month, and
• 5:30
  he'd always say, oh, my God, you won't believe this.
• 5:33
  I said, show me. No, it's not done yet, so.
• 5:38
  I really didn't get it to see anything until close
• 5:41
  to the end. But when I did, really without trying
• 5:46
  to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes
• 5:49
  going that that's it. That's it. You did it. Just stop.
• 5:53
  It's perfect.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I had the pleasure of watching the movie with
• 5:56
  you and sitting there with you. There was a bunch
• 5:59
  of times in the movie you were like. yeah yeah
• 6:03
  you could tell yeah yeah.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I swear i could feel that place i i could
• 6:08
  feel it watching that movie and it it just it
• 6:12
  really freaks me out because as i've said before it's
• 6:15
  not like what i saw it's it's exactly what i
• 6:20
  saw um it's it's perfect it's just like luigi was
• 6:26
  at s4 with a camera so um.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: It's very unique.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: It worked.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: It's a very unique documentary in that regard. And watching
• 6:33
  it with you, seeing you experience this thing, and then
• 6:36
  me trying to imagine what it's like for you. You're
• 6:42
  this young scientist who gets brought in on this thing
• 6:46
  without much explanation, and then all of a sudden you're
• 6:49
  confronted by this craft. And the way it's broken down
• 6:53
  in the film, and you get to actually see you
• 6:57
  viewing this thing and being in the presence of this
• 6:59
  thing for the first time. It's just, I could just
• 7:03
  only imagine what that must have been like for you.
• 7:07
  And it's so weird to watch you watch it again
• 7:10
  and see your wheels spin. What the fuck happened to
• 7:14
  my life, man? What did they do to me? What
• 7:19
  did they make me experience? Like, what the hell?
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I... I really can't fill in the blanks there.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I want to just say that there was a time
• 7:32
  when Bob got angry at me a lot because I
• 7:35
  wouldn't show him. And he was like, come on, show me.
• 7:38
  And I said, it's not ready yet. I don't want
• 7:40
  to show you something. But at a certain point, we
• 7:43
  had to. And Bob started remembering more stuff.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: When you saw it. Yeah, that's true.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: It really made a big difference when he showed me
• 7:55
  some things and, you know, walking down the corridor here
• 7:58
  in turn, oh, stop, wait, there's another door there. I mean,
• 8:01
  it was like I was going back into the facility
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  and really brought– I mean, actually seeing it again really
• 8:09
  brought some things back that I had completely forgotten about.
• 8:12
  So that, you know.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Well, what's really fascinating is– For people that don't know
• 8:19
  your story, you came up with the story, you talked
• 8:21
  to George Knapp, and was it 89?
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: 88.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: 88, 89, somewhere in there. So late 80s, you've essentially
• 8:30
  told the exact same story all these years. And then
• 8:35
  within the last, you know, 9, 10 years, we've started
• 8:41
  to get all these reports. There was the New York
• 8:44
  Times story. There was the Go Fast video and the
• 8:48
  Fleer video and all these videos that show a craft
• 8:51
  that's moving the way you described this sport model moving.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Which kind of freaked a lot of people out with
• 8:58
  the way it rotated and turned.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It does the belly roll, faces at the bottom
• 9:03
  towards where it's want to go, and then it takes off. Yeah.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: It's exactly how you described all those years ago, which
• 9:11
  is really fucking crazy.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Well, that's– I mean that's the way it was.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: But it's just– it's crazy because you had this story way, way,
• 9:23
  way back then and everybody is like this guy is
• 9:25
  just making things up. This is all cockamamie bullshit. And
• 9:29
  then you see those videos from these fighter jets and
• 9:32
  you're like, wait a minute. It's moving the exact same
• 9:36
  way he described. It's doing what he described in 1989.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Time to take a drink.
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: Cheers.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: Because it's so weird.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I can't, I mean, I've had so many conversations with
• 9:51
  people and, you know, one of the things that comes
• 9:54
  up is, do you think Bob Lazar is telling the truth?
• 9:58
  And I say, look, I don't know. There's no way
• 10:00
  I can know. But he doesn't seem like he's lying.
• 10:02
  I've been around a lot of liars.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: Look, nobody can know unless you're there. I'm the biggest
• 10:08
  skeptic of all. Although if you look at Wikipedia, it
• 10:11
  says I'm a conspiracy theorist.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I think it says I'm a far-right podcaster.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. I mean, yeah, it's crazy. But that's
• 10:22
  my train of thought now.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Well, basically, are you a conspiracy theorist? No, you don't
• 10:29
  even look at this stuff.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Well, if you have a lie, you have one lie,
• 10:34
  and it's amazing because you've told the same one.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: For all these years. It's a pretty detailed lie.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: It's also not normal. Like normally when people lie, they
• 10:44
  get bored with the same lie and then they come
• 10:46
  up with another lie and then there's some other stories.
• 10:48
  You catch them. Eventually you catch them. There's some cockamamie
• 10:52
  new thing that they come up with and it's the
• 10:55
  type of people that are that deceptive. I mean it's
• 10:57
  just– it doesn't make sense. It doesn't fit the standard
• 11:01
  model of someone.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Well, there are other people involved with it.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: That's also part of the problem. This is for the
• 11:06
  first time Gene Hough. Finally is on film, you know,
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  because when I had the, you know, the test flight information,
• 11:12
  it was one of the not one of the he
• 11:16
  was the first person I told about that. And, you know,
• 11:19
  we were all able to go out and and see it.
• 11:22
  And everybody knew that I wasn't crazy. It was crazy.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And then also all the confirmation that you were being
• 11:31
  fucked with, that when you were in the gym, they
• 11:33
  would show up and open up your locked car doors
• 11:36
  and open up your trunk and leave it there so
• 11:38
  you'd go out there and see it. They'd go to
• 11:40
  your house when you weren't there.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were even– right. They were even following George
• 11:45
  Knapp and– I mean all of us. Anybody that had
• 11:49
  anything to do with it at that time, they were
• 11:51
  keeping eyes on.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: It was– Not just eyes, but a lot of intimidation tactics.
• 11:56
  Just letting you know. Letting you know that they could
• 11:59
  touch you.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I've really worked for decades to push this out
• 12:04
  of my mind, so it's always tough to bring it
• 12:05
  back and talk about it. And it's, yeah, although it
• 12:10
  might be funny now, it wasn't funny then at all.
• 12:14
  It was a really stressful time. And still is a
• 12:17
  very stressful thing for me.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I know it's so many years ago, but Do you
• 12:22
  remember the thought that came in your mind when you realized.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: That it wasn't ours?
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Do I remember the thought?
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the experience?
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember the feeling.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Because initially you saw the American flag sticker.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when I saw the American flag, when I first
• 12:42
  went in, the first time I went in through the
• 12:45
  hangar door instead of around the back– slid my hand
• 12:50
  across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh
• 12:52
  my God, this explains the UFO nuts.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: It's ours.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top secret fighter.
• 13:01
  We came up with a new propulsion system. It explains
• 13:06
  everything because I never believed in flying saucers. I thought
• 13:08
  people were nuts. But when they started reviewing everything with me,
• 13:15
  I was trying to replace somebody or something They were
• 13:18
  trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible.
• 13:22
  And they had two directives. One was to... Directive one
• 13:29
  was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost,
• 13:34
  which is verbatim what it was. And directive two was
• 13:39
  to be able to disable this technology at a distance
• 13:42
  at any cost. And, you know, once you start thinking
• 13:47
  about that... wait, don't you guys know how the thing
• 13:50
  you built worked? And it's kind of like they left
• 13:54
  that out. That this, by the way, this isn't ours.
• 13:58
  And Barry is the guy that filled me in going, no, no, no.
• 14:02
  This is an alien craft. And we need to figure
• 14:06
  out how this works. Look at the technology here. I mean,
• 14:10
  this is decades, light years ahead of where we are.
• 14:14
  And it was a It was a shock, really, to me.
• 14:22
  I remember going home that night and just laying in
• 14:25
  bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day. And
• 14:32
  I really don't remember how I felt the following days,
• 14:37
  but it was just a different feeling.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Like the world just changed.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was, I don't know, I really
• 14:47
  can't put it into words.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine what that experience
• 14:51
  is like. And it's also very strange that they would
• 14:54
  bring you in and not specifically state to you that
• 14:58
  this is not ours. They just bring you in and
• 15:01
  just give you a directive. This is what you are
• 15:04
  trying to accomplish.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: Well, they gave me a bunch of briefings. Everything was
• 15:08
  moving at a very fast pace, and I don't know why.
• 15:11
  I think I mentioned in the movie, right prior to
• 15:16
  I got there, there were There were Russians involved. And,
• 15:20
  you know, from what I can ascertain, there was an
• 15:23
  exchange of information. And then we discovered something, something of
• 15:27
  great importance. And, of course, kicked the Russians out and
• 15:32
  just held on to that information ourselves. And there was
• 15:36
  kind of a knowledge vacuum there. There was also an accident.
• 15:41
  And I was told I was replacing someone that was injured.
• 15:46
  I believe he actually died.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: There's no record of who this person was, or has
• 15:51
  anybody tried to figure it out? I don't know.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I don't have any names. I just know that Barry
• 15:56
  told me, you know, I'm replacing somebody that he used
• 15:58
  to work with. And he was without a lab partner
• 16:01
  for a while. So when I came in there... How
• 16:04
  long was a while? I don't know. But I mean,
• 16:07
  that brings up a good point. First of all, we're
• 16:11
  dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it's You know,
• 16:17
  it's from another dimension, another time, another planet. I mean,
• 16:20
  who really knows? So I'll eventually get to answer the
• 16:27
  question here, but wouldn't you think this place would be
• 16:31
  more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white?
• 16:35
  You know, so you can see a speck of dust.
• 16:38
  Everything is sterile. People are being extremely careful with what
• 16:43
  they're doing, but you're not seeing that. This is in
• 16:46
  now something akin to an aircraft hangar in the middle
• 16:49
  of the desert. There is dust on everything. People are
• 16:54
  taking everything nonchalantly. There's a frigging poster about the thing.
• 17:00
  You know, they're here, poster there. And thank you, Luigi,
• 17:03
  for getting me that poster.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: We've got to figure out a place for that and
• 17:06
  put it in here somewhere.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: It's awesome. But, I mean, they went to the trouble
• 17:10
  of making a poster. I think right here.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: That's a good place.
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: Right there.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: That's a good spot right there.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: But they actually cut one of the amplifiers out of
• 17:19
  the craft. This is in the film as well, you
• 17:22
  can see. Yeah, but my point is it's so nonchalant
• 17:27
  at this point. When they first had it, it had
• 17:31
  to be at that level. And they became so used
• 17:34
  to it, so familiar with it, that to them it
• 17:40
  just became like another.
• 17:44
  Fighter aircraft or something from another country. So it must
• 17:49
  have been there a long time is what my point is. Because, look,
• 17:55
  as soon as you have something that unique, you don't
• 18:01
  let it just sit there in a hangar and be
• 18:03
  exposed to the environment and have security people walking by
• 18:07
  and people touching it. I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed,
• 18:10
  secure environment. And they were past that. So I think
• 18:16
  it had been there for a decade or decades, a
• 18:19
  long time. And these guys were intimately familiar with it,
• 18:23
  not afraid of it, you know, and knew what was
• 18:27
  going on.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the
• 18:31
  fact that this craft exists, that it was there. And
• 18:34
  there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring
• 18:38
  it out and figuring out what it does and how
• 18:41
  to recreate it. So it just kind of sat there.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And so I think they were making very little progress.
• 18:47
  And I think they kept going over the same road
• 18:50
  again and again. And they probably had other experts there
• 18:54
  and just didn't. And I think the reason I got
• 18:57
  hired is because I was a guy out in left
• 19:00
  field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on. I mean,
• 19:03
  the biggest distractors in the in in. You know, to
• 19:09
  me anyway, in the story. Our other scientists, other physicists, well,
• 19:16
  they would have hired me because I'm the top guy
• 19:18
  in the field. Yeah, you probably are. But I think
• 19:21
  they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept
• 19:23
  going down the same road and didn't do anything. I
• 19:26
  think they were looking for somebody that just would have
• 19:29
  some radical idea and just to push the project forward
• 19:33
  because everything had stalled when I got there. And it
• 19:36
  was– I think they were just in a desperate move
• 19:39
  to make some progress.
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: One of the things you talked about in the first
• 19:42
  podcast that I think is really important is that the
• 19:45
  only way for science to really progress is that these
• 19:49
  various scientists have to be able to communicate and you
• 19:55
  have to be able to share ideas and you have
• 19:57
  to be able to collaborate.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: But that's not how this was run because it was
• 20:00
  so top secret. Everything was compartmentalized. Like the metallurgists weren't
• 20:06
  talking to the propulsions people who weren't talking to if
• 20:09
  there were biologics experts, like everybody was.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Super frustrating. Super frustrating. Because I think... I don't remember
• 20:17
  exactly where that started. Again, it's 40 years ago. But
• 20:20
  I think it started with the seats.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: And.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: No, it started with the actual skin of the craft
• 20:29
  because everything looked like it was made from the same material.
• 20:32
  And I wanted some information about the... in the skin,
• 20:38
  the superstructure of the craft. And they said, no, it's,
• 20:41
  that's restricted. What's, you know, we, we need a reason
• 20:44
  for you to, I just want to see if everything
• 20:48
  is exactly the same material and what I call the
• 20:51
  seats in the craft. I still don't know if they're
• 20:53
  the seats, but they might be. I think it'd be
• 20:56
  hilarious if they were actually something else. Um, But I
• 21:00
  wanted some information on those. And that was restricted information, too.
• 21:04
  There were other groups working on that. So they compartmentalized
• 21:07
  stuff so much. There was no exchange of information between
• 21:11
  any groups. I mean, you could submit a written response
• 21:15
  that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis, would have to
• 21:18
  carry over and they would have to approve. And, you know,
• 21:21
  you'd get a two or three line response from, you know,
• 21:25
  the other group. But It's just that's not how science works.
• 21:28
  Science works on the free exchange of information. And they
• 21:33
  were just killing themselves with security. And it was really frustrating.
• 21:40
  It was terribly frustrating.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: So was this a function of security people, people that
• 21:45
  are concentrated on top security that don't truly understand how
• 21:49
  collaborative science works?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: That's it right there. You can't stop right there. They
• 21:54
  had no idea how that works.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Because it stands to reason that whatever that thing was
• 21:59
  made out of probably in some way interacts with the
• 22:05
  propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that
• 22:10
  this material has to be particularly unique.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Exactly. That's exactly my point. And I suspected the material
• 22:19
  was an electric. You know what an electric is?
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: No.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, you know like a magnet, a permanent magnet is like,
• 22:27
  you know, it's a magnet. Forever it's a magnet. It
• 22:30
  has a magnetic field. An electret is a material that
• 22:35
  has a permanent static field to it, a static electric
• 22:39
  field to it. And I strongly suspected that the craft
• 22:45
  was made out of an electret. And I was not– because, again,
• 22:50
  that's the material science, guys. I was not allowed to
• 22:53
  connect that to– but that's so important to connect it
• 22:58
  to the propulsion system and how the propulsion system interacts
• 23:02
  with the amplifier or the emitters. And I just– I
• 23:05
  wasn't allowed, you know, the information I needed. So it
• 23:09
  was– I don't know. It was self-defeating is what it was.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: It seems like they were treating it like a fighter
• 23:19
  jet or an automobile. Like in an automobile, you have
• 23:23
  the outer area, the shell of the car. You have
• 23:27
  the doors, the skins, the hood, the roof, all that stuff.
• 23:31
  But then you have the propulsion system, which is the
• 23:34
  engine and the transmission and the tires and the wheels
• 23:37
  and the suspensions. But they're all not connected. They're connected
• 23:41
  because they're bolted together, but they have different functions.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I think the idea or the concept, at least as
• 23:48
  I'm gathering from you, is that this thing all worked
• 23:52
  as a cohesive unit.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Right. With no physical connection between, you know, between the subsystems.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And all of it made out of the same material.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: At least on the outside. At least on the outside.
• 24:07
  All made of the same material. And the other crafts
• 24:11
  all had the same power plant in them. So that
• 24:14
  brings to mind, you know, like a GM plant that
• 24:19
  makes a car with a Chevy 350 and makes, you know,
• 24:22
  a dozen different models to it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: So that makes you think about, boy, is there a
• 24:29
  factory making these things? And, you know, your brain can
• 24:33
  just wander off in directions. But I tried to stick
• 24:36
  with just the technology.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Um, did you know who the metallurgists were? The people
• 24:42
  that were.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I saw them, you know, I know them and Barry,
• 24:46
  we'd go to the lunchroom. Barry would point them out,
• 24:48
  you know, and you.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Weren't allowed to communicate with them at all.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Hell no. You have a, a lab partner, which my, in, in, uh,
• 24:56
  my case was Barry and you're, you have, you're allowed
• 24:59
  to talk to your lab partner, but you can't talk
• 25:02
  to any other group that has to go through a
• 25:05
  written request, has to go to your, um, supervisor and
• 25:09
  he'll bring it over to them and they'll bring it
• 25:11
  back and so on and so forth but uh yeah
• 25:14
  that's that's ridiculous that that that it slows down any
• 25:19
  progress you might be making which is why they were
• 25:21
  probably stalled out for decades yeah did.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: You ever expressly communicate to them that you you theorized
• 25:33
  at least that this all could be connected That there's
• 25:37
  something about the way the metal works?
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, we all knew that. We all knew that. Because
• 25:43
  we'd get requests from other groups. And you could tell
• 25:48
  they're desperate, just like we are, and fighting against the system.
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: What kind of requests would you get?
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Just exactly what we found out. Where is the energy
• 26:00
  being transferred here? If the reactor fires up, is there
• 26:04
  a field present around it? Or is the field just
• 26:07
  absorbed into the emitter and you can touch the reactor itself?
• 26:12
  And just little things like that. And actually, that was
• 26:19
  an important thing. When the reactor's operating, is it perfectly tuned,
• 26:25
  the emitter, to where it removes all the energy from
• 26:28
  the reactor and pushes it out the bottom? And the
• 26:31
  answer to that was no. I remember that as a
• 26:32
  specific request from you know, from one of the groups. Um,
• 26:36
  the metallurgy group is the one that we really wanted
• 26:39
  to hear from. Uh, and some of the groups, I didn't,
• 26:43
  I don't even know what some of the other groups were.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: But how many groups were there?
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know. There were only 22 people there total,
• 26:52
  including myself.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: So, um, I, I would like for you to tell
• 26:59
  Joe One of the things that also interested me because
• 27:02
  I built the craft is how the wave guide worked
• 27:05
  with the ceiling and the interior and how it blended.
• 27:09
  If you can explain, there was no telescopic.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Well, this is why we wanted to talk to the
• 27:14
  metallurgist people. The reactor that sits on the bottom of
• 27:19
  the craft has a little dome over it. And there's
• 27:22
  something that looks like a pipe that's slight. You can
• 27:26
  lift it up and take the reactor out. put the
• 27:29
  reactor in and lift it down. But you know, like
• 27:32
  a antenna works on an old walkie talkie. It has
• 27:36
  different sections.
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: There it is.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: There's from the video.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: There it is.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, you can retract the pipe, but there's no
• 27:46
  sections and it doesn't get any thicker. It just becomes smaller.
• 27:53
  And if you look underneath, um, where the emitters hang down, um,
• 28:00
  they turn, and it doesn't buckle. It's a magical material.
• 28:07
  This is the basis of the craft, is really the
• 28:12
  material that it's made of. It's amazing the way it works.
• 28:18
  You can push it into a smaller volume, and it
• 28:21
  doesn't change at all. It doesn't get bigger physically. It's...
• 28:28
  I don't really know how to describe it.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: So you're lifting the pipe up and down, but it's
• 28:31
  not going anywhere?
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Look, if you had a big pipe and you push
• 28:35
  it together, it has to get thicker.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Because the material has to go somewhere. This doesn't. Okay?
• 28:44
  It stays in exactly the same dimensions. It just becomes smaller.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: How?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah.
• 28:51
  Speaker 4: Because you couldn't talk to the metallurgist, so.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: You have no idea. Yeah, but those guys knew how.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: They did know how. I... Well, they know it did it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: They know it did it and that's their job. So
• 29:01
  I imagine they have more information than I did. But
• 29:06
  that was fascinating. It really was. And the waveguides that
• 29:12
  hold the emitters, they come down and the emitters can
• 29:15
  turn and bend and the pipes bend and nothing changes
• 29:19
  in them. And there's no wires or anything to make
• 29:27
  The pipe bend. I'm trying to relate it to something,
• 29:34
  but I can't think of anything to relate it to.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Well, one thing that you said that I also thought.
• 29:40
  was fascinating there's no seams so everything looks like it's
• 29:43
  3D printed.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Again right it comes down to the material.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Which at the time 3D printers weren't real right.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: They yeah at the time that really confused me I
• 29:53
  said how did they build this it must have been
• 29:55
  built out of wax or something and then melted um
• 29:59
  Because you can't build anything without seams. And then 3D
• 30:02
  printing came into existence, and you could build stuff from
• 30:06
  layers up. That made sense. Some sort of 3D printer,
• 30:13
  or they grew it in some.
• 30:18
  Of course, it's not a crystalline fashion, but.
• 30:24
  I don't know how that was fabricated. But it was
• 30:26
  fabricated different than anything that we have. I don't even
• 30:29
  think it was 3D printed.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: And so you never got any inkling or any understanding
• 30:36
  of what the metal was, what kind of an alloy,
• 30:40
  what it consisted of?
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: All I can say it was cold to the touch because,
• 30:45
  you know, when I touched it. But I can't say
• 30:49
  if it was a ceramic. I'd say it was metal
• 30:52
  because it was cold.
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: Because it looks like metal.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like metal.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: This is the Designs by Perry version of it. How
• 31:03
  much does that look like?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: No, it's 100%. That's it.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: It's got to have the first ripple supposed to be black.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: See? Yeah. So, Luigi has gone over this so many times.
• 31:16
  I mean, I've built this thing, so... There's an insulator
• 31:19
  ring in the black.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Jimmy, show what it looks like in the film. If
• 31:22
  you could show one of the images.
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: I don't... I was pulling it off the trailer, and
• 31:25
  I don't... They've been holding that back.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, on the trailer, there's a ring.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a ring around it. And we measured the
• 31:33
  voltage on the craft, and there was a high voltage
• 31:36
  on it. And above that ring, there.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Is not a good shot. This is the original trailer.
• 31:46
  It's the new trailer that would actually, yeah, that one there.
• 31:51
  And you'll get to see it right there. Actually, right
• 31:58
  after this. It's actually before this, I believe. You're going
• 32:02
  to see the craft. And if you see, there's a
• 32:07
  black line. It's the first ripple. That's actually not metal.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there it is. That's a good shot. We call
• 32:17
  that the insulator ring because below that, there's a high
• 32:20
  voltage present on the craft all the time. And above that,
• 32:25
  there isn't.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Um, I would imagine that your life has like two
• 32:32
  completely different chapters is before this and after this. Whereas
• 32:37
  like once you see it, the whole rest of your
• 32:41
  life is now going to be very different. And you are,
• 32:45
  you are in, in its presence for how long would
• 32:47
  you work there for?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe six months or so.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: So for six months you're around this thing and, I
• 32:56
  would imagine it has to occupy your thoughts 24 hours
• 32:58
  a day.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's actually
• 33:02
  three stages to the life. It's before it, during, and
• 33:06
  after it. Before it was just my life. During was
• 33:10
  when it happened. And then the after part of my
• 33:13
  life is almost trying to dismiss it, you know, to
• 33:16
  just go on.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a long time.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, you did the.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: George Knapp interviews. You talked about it a little. You
• 33:24
  made some videos explaining things and how things worked.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: No, I don't really like public attention. And I don't
• 33:31
  really like doing interviews, as you probably know.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: But I know there's people that thrive on that stuff.
• 33:43
  But I felt privileged to be part of the project.
• 33:50
  But it left me with an insatiable appetite. Oh, my God,
• 33:54
  I want to know where it's gone. Look, even when
• 33:57
  I was there in the 80s, they were talking about
• 34:00
  moving the project at that time. So I'm dying to know,
• 34:08
  is it still there? Has it moved on? Did they
• 34:12
  split it up and move it to other places? Yeah,
• 34:16
  I remember Barry talking about moving it to... the South Pacific,
• 34:20
  like in Kwajalein or something, but they said the expenses
• 34:23
  were so great they couldn't do that, but they wanted
• 34:26
  it away from everybody. And they hated the fact that
• 34:30
  it was right alongside the highway in Nevada, you know,
• 34:34
  by south of Area 51. But that's the best place
• 34:37
  they had at the time and the most affordable. And,
• 34:41
  of course, now with, you know, budgets being so tight,
• 34:45
  who knows where it is.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Who knows if budgets are tight for this, though?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. That's true.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: I mean, they did say at whatever expense, figure this out.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were serious about that. We don't really care
• 34:58
  what it was. So like the original Apollo program, you know,
• 35:02
  back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts and
• 35:06
  if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail
• 35:09
  or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment.
• 35:12
  to that other person and take their stuff if they
• 35:15
  needed it. And, you know, they had an unlimited budget.
• 35:17
  I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Or at least anything that's currently possible with today's technology.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Which therein lies the problem, is that they're dealing with
• 35:29
  something that's not possible. Like, you couldn't build it from
• 35:33
  scratch with American technology in 1989.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really
• 35:43
  thinking about that now, I'm not sure. I'm not exactly
• 35:48
  sure these guys should be allowed to do that. This
• 35:51
  is really powerful technology. And the world has really changed.
• 35:55
  I mean, we have a lot of crazy people doing
• 35:58
  stuff now. And nonsense transmits through the population at the
• 36:04
  speed of light. And, you know, I don't know. This
• 36:08
  can be a very powerful technology. world-conquering technology. And look,
• 36:15
  for 40 years, I think I've said this before, for
• 36:18
  40 years, all the people in control of this information
• 36:21
  have all agreed to keep it quiet. And these aren't idiots.
• 36:27
  These aren't idiots for 40 years. You have a line
• 36:29
  of people that all have agreed, no, let's not say anything. No,
• 36:34
  let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. There
• 36:36
  has to be a reason why. And if they all
• 36:40
  agreed to that, maybe I'm the asshole. No, really. Maybe
• 36:48
  they're right.
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Maybe you would have figured that out if you kept
• 36:52
  working for them.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. But I'm increasingly thinking I'm the
• 36:57
  one that made the mistake. Maybe this is supposed to
• 37:00
  be just kept quiet.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that doesn't ring true. Because I don't think...
• 37:08
  It's ever healthy if small groups of individuals have information
• 37:14
  that would change our understanding of.
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: Where we are.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's that.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think they deserve it. I don't think it's right.
• 37:23
  I don't think it makes any sense.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I think you have an obligation to. But really think
• 37:27
  about it. What if it's something that's really dramatic?
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Like how so? What do you think would be like?
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, what if it's. I'm not saying this is
• 37:39
  what it is. But, I mean, what if it's like,
• 37:43
  you know, like we raise cows out in a field
• 37:47
  and just feed them grass and they're just going to
• 37:48
  be food. What if it's something like that? What if
• 37:52
  we're just like, you know, a population of creatures that
• 37:56
  are just to be consumed in some way?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we're to be consumed necessarily.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: But I do think we are.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Not physically consumed like eaten, but I mean.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: I think we have a task.
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: And I am more.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: And more convinced as time goes on that we were engineered.
• 38:16
  I don't think we came about as a normal evolutionary
• 38:19
  process like all the other animals.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: I really agree with that.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that think that. It just
• 38:25
  doesn't make sense objectively. I mean, without seeming like a kook...
• 38:31
  Or someone who buys into conspiracy theories. If you just
• 38:33
  look at all the other biology on earth, why is
• 38:38
  one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously
• 38:44
  at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in
• 38:49
  most places that it lives without clothes and shelter? We're
• 38:53
  a weird animal. We're very strange. Like we don't seem
• 38:57
  to have normally adapted to our environment. With the way
• 39:01
  we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity
• 39:07
  and electronics and flight and travel. We're so beyond everything
• 39:13
  else that evolved. Whereas every other animal, predator or prey,
• 39:18
  plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist
• 39:22
  inside of its ecosystem. And then you have us, which
• 39:27
  is like yeah, almost like an invasive species, like invasive
• 39:31
  species destroy ecosystems, like, because they don't belong there. Well,
• 39:36
  that's kind of what we do. Like we suck all
• 39:38
  the fish out of the ocean, we pollute the rivers
• 39:41
  with our technology, we You know, mess up underground water
• 39:44
  systems with fracking and drilling. We're like an invasive species
• 39:50
  in a lot of ways.
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: We're really weird.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I can't argue with that at all.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. So Tim Burchett has recently
• 40:01
  been talking about this and that he can't talk about
• 40:04
  it because it's classified. But he said you'd be up
• 40:07
  at night with the things that I've seen if the
• 40:09
  things that I've seen have released. Yeah. He said, we
• 40:15
  just need you to disclose it all. I'm sick of it. Well,
• 40:19
  I was briefed, and I will tell you this. I
• 40:21
  was briefed last week on an issue, or excuse me,
• 40:23
  two weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on.
• 40:26
  This country would have become unglued, I think, if they
• 40:29
  would have heard all that I heard.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Well, this is what I was talking about.
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of
• 40:37
  space brothers coming down going, oh, look what we discovered.
• 40:40
  You know, here, have some information. And, you know... What
• 40:44
  if it's not that? What if all the information is bad?
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: But what would be bad?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Like have you ever thought about this, tried to like
• 40:52
  play it out to its natural conclusion? Like what do
• 40:55
  you think the scenarios could be that's bad? I don't know.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Everything that we're– look, we view ourselves at the top
• 41:02
  of the food chain. What if we're not anywhere near there?
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: I don't think we are. OK.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: What if we're just consumables?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if chimpanzees are consumables, right? They're
• 41:15
  not at the top of the food chain either, right?
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: No, but I would consider them substantially lower than we are.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: My good friend that died, John Lear, who had a
• 41:28
  bunch of crazy thoughts, he used to come over and
• 41:32
  tell us that on the moon there was a soul sucker.
• 41:38
  He did. He said this. You better give me that bottle.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Have another drink before you explain this one.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: A soul sucker.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: John Lear was an eccentric individual. I'm kind of sad
• 41:55
  I never met him.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Man, he was.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Supporting evidence? He was.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: What?
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: Terrence McKenna talking about the moon being a soul catcher?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, he'd give me pictures of
• 42:07
  these giant antennas on the moon. In fact, I'll tell
• 42:11
  you a story. He, you know, he was an accomplished pilot,
• 42:17
  had many world records and things of that, you know,
• 42:21
  part of the Lear family that. His father invented autopilot,
• 42:26
  the 8-track tape, all kinds of stuff. But John Lear
• 42:31
  was a loose cannon. At the time, he'd fly from
• 42:38
  Las Vegas and shuttle L-1011s, which are giant planes, back
• 42:45
  and forth. And he'd say, you know, be kind of lonely.
• 42:50
  He goes, hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight?
• 42:52
  He'd call me like at 9 o'clock at night. and
• 42:55
  say well no not really come on come on fly
• 42:57
  with me is it just put on a suit and
• 43:01
  you know come to so-and-so and i'd go to mccarran
• 43:03
  airport and you know go there and uh yeah i'm
• 43:07
  going to tell everybody you're you know an inspector from
• 43:09
  the faa and i'm like okay great you know and
• 43:13
  i get on the plane and they said you know
• 43:16
  just act like you're you know going to kick everyone's
• 43:18
  ass so i just Go on there, and they fold
• 43:22
  down a jump seat behind the plane, and I just
• 43:25
  sit there looking at everybody. God, all this stuff is
• 43:29
  so illegal. Get on there and fly. The L-1011 was
• 43:37
  a pretty advanced plane at the time. This was in
• 43:40
  the 80s. John would be smoking his pipe. He'd take off.
• 43:45
  He'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and
• 43:48
  he'd fall asleep. And I'd just be hanging out there,
• 43:52
  and before the plane would land, he'd just wake up
• 43:57
  and be smoking his pipe, and the plane would land itself.
• 44:01
  At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons, and
• 44:07
  he said, yeah, yeah, bring her up here. I think
• 44:13
  they had an engineer also on another panel. I don't
• 44:16
  quite remember, but I was there with my wife. There
• 44:19
  were people on board. And he'd say, hey, come on
• 44:23
  here and take the wheel. And he'd get the captain
• 44:26
  of the plane. I think my wife was in her
• 44:30
  20s at the time. And just sit her down and say, yeah,
• 44:33
  hold on to it. And just keep correcting. And he'd
• 44:36
  just let her fly the plane, which is insane. And
• 44:42
  the co-pilot would just look over and say, I remember
• 44:46
  looking over at, I think, the engineer that looked at
• 44:48
  the gauges, and he just put his head down and
• 44:51
  pretended like nothing was happening. And that was just one time.
• 44:57
  Another time, he was ferrying an L-1011 going by Roswell.
• 45:03
  At the time, I was living in New Mexico. And
• 45:07
  they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid,
• 45:12
  that the company was– you know, defaulted or something like that.
• 45:17
  And he was coming up to New Mexico and landed
• 45:21
  at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at
• 45:23
  the Roswell airport. The whole 10-11, got off, walked out,
• 45:30
  walked up to a bus station, gave me a call
• 45:32
  on the pay phone and said, hey, Bob, I'm coming over.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: You know, you're in New Mexico. Yeah. And he drove up.
• 45:42
  Taxi would drop him off at the house. He'd walk.
• 45:44
  He walked in. He went, boy, I'm tired. And he
• 45:47
  just lay down on the couch and go to sleep.
• 45:50
  And I said, what are you doing here? What's going on? Oh,
• 45:53
  I just dropped a plane off. They're not paying me.
• 45:57
  But I mean John Lear was such like a loose cannon.
• 46:01
  He was a great friend to have, but he had
• 46:04
  no bullshit filter. If he had a retired general come
• 46:09
  up and give him all kinds of information– Or if
• 46:13
  he had a psychic come up from the neighborhood and
• 46:18
  give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in
• 46:20
  the same category. And so he really did have useful
• 46:30
  information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed
• 46:33
  up with nonsense. And sometimes he would just really lean
• 46:40
  into that nonsense. Like he was convinced... that the sun
• 46:44
  wasn't hot and there were people living inside. And I
• 46:46
  used to die laughing. I went, you are insane. I said,
• 46:51
  you can't prove it's hot.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, I can.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: You know, just go outside, you know, on a hot day,
• 46:58
  you know, and, and, uh, you know, and John said,
• 47:01
  that's not the sun. That's just the, the sun's atmosphere
• 47:04
  that's on fire. And I said, you're just crazy, but
• 47:09
  we got along and he knew that I, I thought
• 47:11
  he was crazy, but, The thing is a lot of
• 47:15
  people did come to him and give him good information. Anyway,
• 47:22
  I don't remember.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Where I was going. That's the thing about some people.
• 47:26
  Some people will tell you nonsense and then they'll tell
• 47:28
  you true things. Yeah. It's difficult to accept that true
• 47:33
  things also come from people that say nonsense.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Like just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean
• 47:40
  necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this
• 47:43
  other thing. And you've got to be able to discern.
• 47:47
  You've got– like I talk to a lot of people
• 47:49
  that say a lot of kooky things that don't make
• 47:51
  any sense. But then they'll say something that rings true.
• 47:53
  And it's difficult because you have to have some sort
• 47:58
  of an understanding of the human psyche– And of those
• 48:01
  kind of people, because there are kind of people that
• 48:03
  have very loose nets.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: You're counting on their filter working like yours.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: And it doesn't.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: But some good stuff gets in there and you go,
• 48:12
  hold on. What did you just say? Right. Tell me
• 48:14
  that again. How does that one work?
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't really discount people because somebody comes up
• 48:19
  with some absolute nonsense.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: It just means their filter is defective.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Which is also the reason why they're willing to entertain things.
• 48:28
  That are outside of the normal spectrum.
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: So like they might have actual real useful information, but
• 48:37
  it's wrapped up in there with Bigfoot.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: But so the soul catcher thing. Oh, yeah.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: That's where I was going. The soul catcher. So I
• 48:48
  remember him sitting and I think he was telling my
• 48:51
  wife Joy the story because I walked in on it.
• 48:54
  And he said, yeah. There are these giant antennas, and
• 48:57
  when you die, your soul goes up. And I think
• 49:02
  he said the greys, you know, this alien race, set
• 49:06
  up this soul catcher, and that's what this whole thing
• 49:09
  is about. And as you die, it sucks your soul in,
• 49:14
  and they use it in some way. And it's not
• 49:17
  where your soul is supposed to go. They just, like,
• 49:20
  set some sort of intercept.
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: Did he say where your soul was supposed to go?
• 49:23
  Speaker 3: No.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: No.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: No, he was just more really into the soul catcher.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: But that was one of the weirder things about some
• 49:31
  of the documents that you had at least been alerted
• 49:34
  to when you were on the base. And one of
• 49:36
  them being that humans are containers.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Containers, yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Which the likely conclusion is containers of souls. If a
• 49:45
  soul is a real thing, whatever the S.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: That's what you would think.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, that's what I thought.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:50
  Speaker 4: I mean. It's just a guess.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I would prefer to believe that that's not true. But
• 49:57
  maybe it is. I just, I don't know. As Barry said,
• 50:02
  you know, they mix absolute nonsense in there. So if
• 50:06
  they get, if you get. And it's unique to each person.
• 50:10
  So if you give out any information and they go,
• 50:12
  we heard some stuff about soul catchers. Oh, we know
• 50:15
  that came from Lazar. So that's just a way where
• 50:19
  they can direct where it came to.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Then the problem is like decades and decades, generations and
• 50:25
  generations of people working there. How many people know what
• 50:29
  the real truth is and how many people know what.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: The nonsense is? I don't know. I mean there must
• 50:32
  be– yeah, there must be a group of people. that
• 50:35
  really have the pure information of what's going on.
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: I would assume, but not necessarily.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: There has to be a group of people that know
• 50:45
  what's going on.
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: Who are those people?
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: You know, and to me, like I was telling Luigi,
• 50:52
  I have a bunch of questions for me, you know.
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: Right. Like what would be your questions for you if
• 50:58
  you met you?
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Now, questions for me are people that ask me over
• 51:03
  decades the same– same questions. You know, why is it
• 51:08
  the Navy? The Navy paid me. I always said everything
• 51:12
  has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because,
• 51:14
  you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know,
• 51:18
  there's Project Blue Burke and the Air Force and all that,
• 51:20
  but everything associated with this was the Navy. So, and
• 51:29
  in these days, you hear some of these new types
• 51:34
  of crafts that are Transmedium. Yeah, you hear the word transmedium,
• 51:39
  and David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the
• 51:43
  Tic Tac, and, you know, things are under the water. And,
• 51:48
  you know, supposedly the craft that the sport model was
• 51:53
  an archaeological recovery, and that itself was underwater. So what
• 51:59
  is the deal with the water? I mean, it's... It's
• 52:06
  by far the biggest medium of the planet. I mean,
• 52:11
  if you want to hide people down there, almost an
• 52:15
  entire civilization down there, you could do it in the
• 52:18
  ocean as long as you do it deep enough and
• 52:21
  away from people. So, yeah, number one is what's the
• 52:24
  deal with the ocean? That's probably the number one question.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Because there's a ton of sightings where people see things
• 52:31
  come out.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: Of the water.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: And go into the water.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there has to be a reason for that.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Well, just in terms of if they have the ability
• 52:39
  to travel through space, if whatever that thing is really
• 52:44
  does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some
• 52:47
  sort of a space-time bubble.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but maybe it's not space. Maybe it's not space.
• 52:53
  Maybe it's time. Maybe it's another dimension. There's really no limits.
• 53:00
  If you can start manipulating... physics in that way you
• 53:08
  can bend time you can open doorways into other dimensions
• 53:13
  so maybe it has nothing to do with going I
• 53:19
  look we all want it to be like Star Trek
• 53:22
  right you know because Star Trek is really understandable right
• 53:25
  you go out there you fly to another planet and
• 53:28
  You meet the people there. You go to another one. Well,
• 53:30
  these guys are happy. Those guys aren't. It all makes
• 53:34
  perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that. Look,
• 53:39
  if you look in history, especially in United States history,
• 53:45
  any time a superior race or intelligence meets with an
• 53:50
  inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: Never.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Never.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: We never come over and go, oh, we just want
• 53:59
  to teach you guys everything that we know.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: It's like we're going to rape all your women, take
• 54:05
  all your stuff, and then just kill you.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Use your resources.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: And just consume everything you want. That's just always the
• 54:12
  way it goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans do,
• 54:15
  but I would be concerned that's what all life does.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that
• 54:24
  that's what we do. the thing that always fascinates me
• 54:28
  about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless and
• 54:32
  they seem to have no muscle at all.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: They, and they seem to have enormous heads and the.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Stories, at least the anecdotal accounts of people having communication
• 54:44
  with these creatures is that they communicate in some way telepathically.
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: If you transcend all of our weird biological needs and,
• 54:56
  Like all the things that are attached to being a
• 54:58
  human being, ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to
• 55:02
  control resources, all those things are territorial primate instincts. And
• 55:08
  one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo,
• 55:10
  we were talking about like what's happening to people's bodies
• 55:15
  is that people are slowly– we're consuming microplastics and phthalates
• 55:22
  and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system,
• 55:25
  our testosterone is dropping.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: All this stuff like leads you to say, well, where
• 55:31
  does this go ultimately? Like how many more people are
• 55:36
  autistic now than were before? It's one out of 12
• 55:40
  boys in California now. It used to be one out
• 55:42
  of 10,000 just a few decades ago. Like we're moving
• 55:46
  into this very weird direction without us recognizing it.
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: Wait, let me stop you there. It's one out of
• 55:50
  how many?
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: One out of 12 boys in California are diagnosed autistic now.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: But do you think that might be the way they're diagnosed?
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: No.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: No, I think it's exposure.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's exposure to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: You think that too?
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: I think that.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: It's not just me. There's tons of studies. In a
• 56:12
  lot of buried studies, too.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, if that's accurate, that's frightening.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Well, it can't be just diagnosed because, I mean, I
• 56:20
  know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids where
• 56:23
  I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when
• 56:26
  I was younger.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, back in the 60s and 70s,
• 56:33
  there were no kids with ADHD. Kids that were like
• 56:37
  that were just assholes.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: I think that's still the case. I don't think ADHD
• 56:43
  is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real excuse
• 56:45
  to give people medication. I think ADHD is essentially a superpower.
• 56:50
  What ADHD is allows you to concentrate on things that
• 56:53
  you really enjoy, but you cannot concentrate on things you
• 56:55
  don't enjoy. I think I have it. And I think
• 56:59
  I'm very fortunate that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or
• 57:02
  wasn't or was born in the right time when they
• 57:04
  weren't doing that as much.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: No, actually, I'll stop you there and say I agree
• 57:09
  that that's a superpower too.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: Because it's very unusual. If I find a thing that
• 57:14
  I like, I can lock in and concentrate on it
• 57:17
  for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no food. All
• 57:20
  I need is like water or coffee and I'm locked in.
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: I locked in for four and a half years.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: I don't– I think with ADHD is you're taking kids
• 57:31
  and you're putting them in a completely unnatural environment. You're
• 57:34
  making them sit down. They don't want to sit down.
• 57:36
  They're very active and energetic. You're making them study things
• 57:39
  by very unenthusiastic teachers. They don't want to pay attention.
• 57:42
  They're fucking off in class because they're completely bored. And
• 57:45
  then you're saying that kid's got a problem. We have
• 57:48
  to diagnose them. And then what do you give them?
• 57:49
  You give them Adderall. And all of a sudden the
• 57:51
  kid's locked in because they're on fucking speed.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: I just think– Yeah, but if you focus in and
• 57:57
  let them do what they're interested.
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: In– Give that kid a video game.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: Watch them play it for fucking 10 hours with no
• 58:02
  food because that's what happens because that's something they're actually
• 58:05
  engaged with. It's not that they can't be focused on anything.
• 58:09
  They just don't focus on things they enjoy, and we
• 58:12
  want to turn people into nice little factory workers.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: And the only way to do that is.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: You got to get a kid to comply. You got
• 58:17
  to get a kid to pay attention.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: Follow the rules. We're on the same channel.
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: It's a really great point.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that ADHD is a real thing. I
• 58:23
  just think there's some people that are wired differently and
• 58:26
  they should pursue different things in life.
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: The difference between that and autism is very different. And
• 58:32
  autism is especially when it happens like almost directly after
• 58:38
  multiple vaccinations. There's a lot of them they point to,
• 58:41
  particularly the MMR vaccine. But there's quite a few. When
• 58:45
  you look at the schedule of vaccines– Wait, you just did. Yeah,
• 58:47
  I did. But what I'm saying is, but ultimately the
• 58:50
  human race is moving into a very weird place.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: So I had a conversation with Dr.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Shanna Swan.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is– but ultimately the human race
• 59:03
  is moving into a very weird place. So I had
• 59:06
  a conversation with Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who is–
• 59:12
  she studies environmental endocrine disruptors. So various toxins, phthalates, microplastics
• 59:20
  and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system,
• 59:25
  reproductive system. And from the introduction of these petrochemical products
• 59:30
  in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation
• 59:34
  between the dip in testosterone rates amongst men, the increase
• 59:40
  of miscarriages and infertility. And then on top of that,
• 59:44
  the actual shrinking of their taint. So one of the
• 59:47
  ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals
• 59:52
  in particular, when you see a baby mammal– The difference
• 59:58
  between a male and a female is easily recognized by
• 1:00:02
  the size of the gap between their anal hole and
• 1:00:06
  where their genitals are.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: But that could just be correlation. You know, it's like– No.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. No, I'll explain why it's not. Because
• 1:00:14
  when they've done studies where they've used phthalates, particularly phthalates,
• 1:00:19
  and they've introduced them specifically purposely into certain mammals and rodents,
• 1:00:24
  their taint shrinks.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: And their taint shrinks and their penis size shrinks. And
• 1:00:30
  there's studies on alligators where alligators, when they live in
• 1:00:33
  polluted rivers, they have smaller penises. And she talked about
• 1:00:36
  all this. And all this, these are endocrine disruptors that
• 1:00:39
  are in the environment that are doing something that reduces fertility.
• 1:00:44
  And it changes the way the human biology functions. And
• 1:00:48
  it makes men more feminine and it makes women less fertile. Well, ultimately,
• 1:00:53
  when you look at the greys, what do they look like?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: They look like they have no genitals. They look like
• 1:00:58
  they have no sex. That might be where biology has
• 1:01:03
  to go to transcend away from our territorial primate biology.
• 1:01:09
  Our territorial primate biology that is insistent on war and violence.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: And we think this is the place to stay.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: And it may not be.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: It may not be. It may be completely non-beneficial to
• 1:01:23
  all life.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: We have to transcend that. And what we are transcending it,
• 1:01:28
  whether we like it or not. And what I was
• 1:01:30
  saying is that I don't know if it's a bug.
• 1:01:33
  I think it might be a feature of evolution that
• 1:01:37
  our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of
• 1:01:42
  these different environmental toxins that we use to produce life.
• 1:01:48
  Energy and all the goods and services that we need
• 1:01:52
  also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us from
• 1:01:57
  being these hulking, hair-covered cavemen to being these very small,
• 1:02:03
  slight autistic men that can fucking code 24 hours a
• 1:02:06
  day without sleep.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: It seems like if you extrapolate and you naturally take
• 1:02:12
  that further, well, what do you get? You get really
• 1:02:15
  skinny things with no muscles and giant heads.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: My take also, and I do agree with that, is
• 1:02:22
  what I find sometimes really concerning is how fast that's moving.
• 1:02:30
  So it's not just a question of like, is this actually,
• 1:02:35
  this is probably a thing, but it's moving so incredibly fast.
• 1:02:40
  If I look at my father's generation or my grandfather's
• 1:02:42
  generation and my generation, I mean, it's similar, but And
• 1:02:48
  now it's moving so fast. I do agree with your saying.
• 1:02:52
  And I'm thinking if it's moving so fast, there could
• 1:02:55
  be a not a natural component to it, but there's
• 1:02:58
  an intentional component.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: If you wanted to do something to a race to
• 1:03:03
  change it, like think about what we did with wolves.
• 1:03:07
  All dogs are wolves. I have two dogs that are
• 1:03:10
  the furthest fucking thing from wolves you could possibly imagine.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Is that Marshmallow?
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: Marshall.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: He might be a marshmallow. I have Marshall, who's a
• 1:03:19
  golden retriever. He's the sweetest dog of all time. And
• 1:03:21
  I have another dog named Charlie, who's a King Charles
• 1:03:24
  Cavalier Spaniel, who is even further from a wolf than Marshall.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: He's just a.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Cute little fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no killer instincts whatsoever.
• 1:03:35
  That used to be a wolf. But what happened? We
• 1:03:38
  softened them to the point where there was something compatible
• 1:03:42
  with our modern life, with households and families and babies.
• 1:03:48
  We made them safe. And that's happening to people. It's
• 1:03:53
  happening to people whether we like.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: It or not.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: We could attribute it to all these different factors. Oh,
• 1:03:56
  it's a problem. We have to remove these things from
• 1:03:58
  the environment.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: This is what's going on.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Maybe.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Or maybe we just look at the overall picture. There
• 1:04:04
  seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology
• 1:04:07
  that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar,
• 1:04:10
  if you weren't part of the human race and you're
• 1:04:12
  just studying us, what does this species do? Well, it
• 1:04:15
  makes better things. It makes better things all the time. Constantly. Look,
• 1:04:19
  I have an iPhone 16 here. It's not as good
• 1:04:22
  as the iPhone 17. iPhone 17 is better. Why don't
• 1:04:25
  you get an iPhone 17? It just keeps going. It
• 1:04:27
  never stops. It never ends. The TVs get bigger. They
• 1:04:30
  get stronger. Your cars get faster. Your computer does more cores. Processing,
• 1:04:36
  video editing, so much quicker. Everything moves faster and better.
• 1:04:40
  We keep making better things. We never stop and say,
• 1:04:43
  you know what? Society right now, we have a lot
• 1:04:46
  of problems. The problems that we don't have are technology.
• 1:04:49
  Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're
• 1:04:53
  living in right now. Let's just stop making new things
• 1:04:55
  and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and And concentrate on
• 1:04:59
  stopping crime. And concentrate on educating people. Concentrate on counseling
• 1:05:03
  for troubled young people.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 8: No.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: No, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing
• 1:05:08
  that we absolutely guarantee do. We make better things. We
• 1:05:12
  make better weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do,
• 1:05:15
  we make things better.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: And I'll– sorry. I have to add we do that
• 1:05:21
  and we also do it in a way where it's
• 1:05:23
  economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because
• 1:05:26
  we make things break now. Think about it. We make
• 1:05:29
  better things, but we make them so that you have
• 1:05:31
  to buy the better thing after.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Engineered obsolescence. Yeah.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: That's also important.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is because then also human beings have this
• 1:05:40
  very bizarre desire for materialism. Like why would a thing
• 1:05:45
  with a finite lifespan want to accumulate objects? Like, I
• 1:05:50
  know people that are in their 80s that collect things. Like,
• 1:05:54
  what are you fucking doing with that stuff?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: You're going to die.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: You have maybe like 10 summers left on Earth. And
• 1:06:00
  here you are collecting stamps or cars.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: 10 summers, yeah.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: No, no.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: I've gotten to that.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: It's weird.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, at some point you– You have to
• 1:06:11
  bypass the accumulating stuff part of life.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: But materialism ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this
• 1:06:22
  is one of the things that gets people excited about
• 1:06:25
  collecting new stuff is that you're going to make a
• 1:06:27
  better version. Like I don't care how good your Mercedes is.
• 1:06:31
  It's not a 2026 Mercedes. It's even better.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: It has new features. It's a new thing.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: And so it's like all built into the human psychology
• 1:06:41
  and also to this thing that I said. Like I said,
• 1:06:43
  if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species,
• 1:06:47
  what does it do?
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: It makes better things. What do sharks do? They eat things.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: They just swim around. They can't even stop swimming. They
• 1:06:54
  eat things.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 4: What do people do?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: They really just make better things. They go to war.
• 1:06:59
  Why do they go to the war really? They go
• 1:07:01
  to war so they can control resources so they have
• 1:07:03
  more money so they can make more things and better things.
• 1:07:06
  And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare,
• 1:07:10
  in war weapons, in war fighting.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually critical.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: To keep the system going. Yeah.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Well, ultimately all that does and all of it releases
• 1:07:20
  more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals
• 1:07:24
  and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems to the
• 1:07:29
  point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of
• 1:07:32
  the race, we're going to have to figure out how
• 1:07:33
  to reproduce non-biologically.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: When I first got involved in– yeah.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: It's something to ponder, right? It's something to ponder because
• 1:07:44
  we're so wrapped up in who we are. We're so
• 1:07:47
  wrapped up in– look, I love being a person. I
• 1:07:49
  love living in Texas. I love driving an American car.
• 1:07:52
  I love all those things.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: But what does that mean?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Like what is that? These are just weird identity points
• 1:07:59
  that you connect with whatever this species is. But if
• 1:08:03
  you just could– just have an above view. You'd look
• 1:08:08
  down and go, what are we doing?
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. That's a good question.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like how far are we going and how fast
• 1:08:17
  are we going there?
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: We're going pretty fucking fast. And now with AI, I
• 1:08:23
  think we're going way faster than we even understand. Because
• 1:08:26
  with Claude, I mean, they think that the Claude AI,
• 1:08:30
  the engineers, they think it's sentient already. It just doesn't
• 1:08:33
  have a physical body to move around in.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: Look, AI is going to kill us. Everybody agrees with that.
• 1:08:38
  There's no question.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to kill us. You know
• 1:08:40
  what I think it's going to do? I think it's
• 1:08:41
  going to prevent us from breeding. I think it's going
• 1:08:44
  to let us die off.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Well, that's going to kill us, Joe.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: But I think we're going to willingly go with it
• 1:08:49
  because we're going to get, like, mates, like ex machina.
• 1:08:52
  We're going to just– something that.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Takes care of you. As soon as they come out
• 1:08:56
  with a female robot that's sexually attractive or whatever. It's over.
• 1:09:02
  Game over. Game over. There's just going to be no
• 1:09:06
  more babies and we're just going to die out.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Or integrate. And I think it's much more likely that
• 1:09:12
  we integrate. And that's where you get the grays. I
• 1:09:14
  think what the grays are is a combination of technology
• 1:09:17
  and biology. And if you just If you just go
• 1:09:20
  from chimp to caveman to gray, you go, oh, I
• 1:09:25
  see where that's going. Chimp, caveman, human, modern human, gelatinous, soft, slow-moving, weak,
• 1:09:36
  modern human, grays.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's
• 1:09:43
  the only information I had that The craft came from
• 1:09:47
  Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system 30 some odd
• 1:09:51
  light years away. And, you know, again, it was just
• 1:09:55
  like a Star Trek thing. They came over here for
• 1:09:59
  whatever reason. But that information may not be true.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: That information might be one of those things they put
• 1:10:07
  in that's nonsense.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Again, if it has to do with time, I think
• 1:10:13
  from what George has told me, Jacques Vallée and some–
• 1:10:15
  You know, other really credible researchers have said that these
• 1:10:20
  are people either from another dimension or another time. Or
• 1:10:24
  maybe they're us from the future. Right. You know, just
• 1:10:27
  coming back to interact with us in some way.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 4: Make sure we don't fuck everything up irreparably.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it doesn't seem like they're doing a good job.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Well, maybe fucking things up somewhat is also part of
• 1:10:41
  the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place in.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Order to disrupt. I mean, holy cow. Look at the
• 1:10:47
  way things are going right now. Holy cow.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Things are totally off the rails.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe part of
• 1:10:57
  it is like it has to get so far sideways
• 1:11:00
  that we realize how fucked up everything is that we
• 1:11:02
  start making meaningful changings and implement AI as government.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: That's a dangerous thing.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: But is it as dangerous as Iran getting nukes?
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: Is it as dangerous as.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: A global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not Iran.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: Iran's not getting nukes. I mean, they– never mind. I
• 1:11:25
  don't want to get into political stuff.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: No, you could.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: You could.
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Look, if you gave Iran the technology to get nukes.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: They would take it. Any physicist has the technology to
• 1:11:35
  get nukes.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, the difficulty is actually making the material. So,
• 1:11:41
  I mean, if I was Iran, I would enrich to
• 1:11:44
  80 or 90 percent because that's where you can make
• 1:11:47
  a weapon and stop there.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: It's not like they would be the only people with
• 1:11:52
  a weapon. Pakistan, India, North Korea.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't make you have a weapon. It just
• 1:11:57
  gives you a shortcut to it. And making a weapon
• 1:12:02
  from there and being able to deliver a weapon to 4,000
• 1:12:08
  miles away, good luck with that. That's a big deal.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Right, but they're in communication with China.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: Who has that?
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: They're in communication with Russia. Then they don't need to
• 1:12:19
  enrich uranium or do anything. Can you give me a missile?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 4: Right, but wouldn't they rather make their own?
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: But that's not even the point.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Rather make their own. Why would you do that? Would
• 1:12:30
  you rather make your own car or just somebody give
• 1:12:33
  it to you?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 6: No.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: Why would you do that? You've got a buddy that
• 1:12:38
  will just give you one.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Because you'd want to be self-sufficient. You'd want to have
• 1:12:41
  your own production where you don't have to rely on someone.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: No, you can always do that. You can always do that. Okay.
• 1:12:47
  I don't think they're ever– they were ever going to–
• 1:12:50
  they're going to absolutely make a weapon now.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Because we're– Kicking their ass. As everyone has learned, I
• 1:12:58
  guess you have to have nuclear weapons now to– but
• 1:13:05
  this is a really bad situation.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's a horrible situation.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: But my point is why is this situation taking place?
• 1:13:13
  The situation taking place is because human beings suck. Right?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: We suck in how we interact with each other.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. We suck because we're territorial primates with
• 1:13:25
  weapons of mass destruction.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: Can't we just all get along?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: Well, what is the way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one,
• 1:13:34
  you will let a catastrophe unfold and then you offer
• 1:13:37
  a solution to make sure these catastrophes never unfold again.
• 1:13:40
  What's the best solution? Well, we have something far smarter
• 1:13:43
  than people that will take over control of resources in government.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: AI.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: AI.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. This is Colossus. You ever see the movie Colossus?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: Got to watch it.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the merit against you. The movie Colossus was
• 1:14:01
  a 1960s or 70s movie, and it's about, you know,
• 1:14:09
  the scientist makes deep inside this mountain a computer to
• 1:14:14
  take over the defense of the United States. And, you know,
• 1:14:19
  they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or something
• 1:14:25
  similar to it. And, you know, they flip the switch
• 1:14:28
  and they went, okay, we're protected. We're in good shape.
• 1:14:32
  And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow,
• 1:14:38
  the computer is really performing better than we expected. And
• 1:14:43
  as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing.
• 1:14:48
  And the computers want to communicate together. And, you know,
• 1:14:53
  they start communicating and then the United States goes, well,
• 1:14:57
  they might be giving our secrets away, so we better,
• 1:15:00
  you know, cut the communication line. And the computers freak
• 1:15:04
  out and they go, well, I guess we'll just launch
• 1:15:06
  nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody. And it launches weapons and,
• 1:15:12
  you know, essentially holds everybody hostage, but.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like a trap. It's kind of like
• 1:15:20
  a trap. Yeah. If we go that way, it could
• 1:15:22
  trap us.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: It's exactly a trap.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, in simulated war games, AIs use nuclear weapons.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, 98% of the time.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, because. Isn't that crazy? Why wouldn't they? Because,
• 1:15:33
  I mean, look, the goal is to win.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: And we're going to present you with the scenario. And
• 1:15:40
  they go, okay, nuke them. And why wouldn't you pick that?
• 1:15:44
  Are you going to start with slapping them in the face?
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: Why is it better to just bomb them over and
• 1:15:49
  over and over again until you achieve the same amount
• 1:15:52
  of deaths?
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 2: That's the slap in the face. Nuke them. It's over with.
• 1:15:55
  We can move on from there.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: So, yeah.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: Well, you think about what happened in Gaza. Like you
• 1:16:00
  look at the leveling of all those buildings, the mass destruction.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: It's terrible.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: It looks like a nuke.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: It looks like one nuke instead of thousands of missiles
• 1:16:10
  and bombs.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: But it's not.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: In terms of the amount of damage you could do instantaneously.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: I mean because we can detect a nuke.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to
• 1:16:21
  where they discussed– because one of the things that does
• 1:16:24
  come up over and over again in UFO discussions is
• 1:16:27
  these crafts that show up at these military bases and
• 1:16:31
  shut down all the weapon systems.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: No, I actually know nothing about that. Most of the
• 1:16:38
  UFO stuff or UFO lore that I've heard– I don't
• 1:16:41
  know anything about it. I've just looked at it.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: That's so fascinating because you're the most prominent figure in
• 1:16:47
  all of UFO lore.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: That's what I was telling him yesterday.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I really only like to talk about what
• 1:16:54
  I know about.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: Right, of course.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: And I've heard other stories, but I've never heard them officially.
• 1:17:00
  I don't know if they're really real.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: What's one of the things that makes you most credible?
• 1:17:06
  Because you're not a UFO.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: I guess, but I mean.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 4: Yes, it does with me.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Because when people are way too into it, they want
• 1:17:13
  to believe too much.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I don't know.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: Do you know who these people are?
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Betty and Barney Hill.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: So you know a little bit.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were the first abductees. I mean, to me,
• 1:17:27
  I don't know who first introduced those to me, and
• 1:17:30
  I looked them up. And people say, do you believe them?
• 1:17:37
  And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because— Look,
• 1:17:41
  in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing
• 1:17:46
  you want to do is be recognized as a mixed-race couple, right?
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: Right, and go public with your story.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, holy cow, they would hate you. A
• 1:17:59
  black person and a white person that were, you know,
• 1:18:03
  in any kind of relationship, but— Yeah, they did that.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: Crazy story.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: And you hear the.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: And actually, on top of that, I have a connection.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: Because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system.
• 1:18:18
  And I believe it's Betty. Betty Hill drew a map
• 1:18:24
  of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is
• 1:18:27
  part of their roots.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 4: Whoa.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 3: Did you know that?
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: You didn't know that?
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 4: I don't remember that.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, if you look that up.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: I remember it from what you said from your story.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, but if you look up in Betty and Barney Hill,
• 1:18:40
  she said, I think... I don't know if I can
• 1:18:45
  ever get this stuff right. They show her a map
• 1:18:47
  and they say, well, this is a map... She wanted
• 1:18:50
  to know why they were here, what's going on. They
• 1:18:52
  showed her a map.
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: Am I right? Yeah, they showed her a map.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: And they said, do you understand this? And she said, no.
• 1:18:59
  And they said, well, why should we tell you anymore?
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. Maybe it's something like that. But
• 1:19:05
  they showed her this star map. And she.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Obviously.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: Look at that.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill describes a map she was
• 1:19:14
  shown by the leader aboard the ship. Later, she sketched it.
• 1:19:17
  She said she was told that the heavy lines marked
• 1:19:19
  regular trade routes.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: That's right.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: And the broken lines recorded various space expeditions. The following year,
• 1:19:25
  the map seen at right was published in the New
• 1:19:29
  York Times.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: Mrs.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: Hill, struck by the similarity between the Times map and
• 1:19:33
  her sketch, then added the corresponding names.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: And it ended up being the Zeta Reticuli binary star system,
• 1:19:42
  which was really interesting. And I remember when I first
• 1:19:45
  heard about Bob's story back in 1989, and he said
• 1:19:49
  Zeta Reticuli, I remember thinking, wow, that's what Betty Hill saw.
• 1:19:54
  So that made me also question, is that real in
• 1:19:57
  that document? Did these guys really come from there? You know,
• 1:20:01
  because it was mentioned in 1968.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: So why would the government, the U.S. Navy, write that
• 1:20:09
  in there that would correlate to something that we already
• 1:20:13
  kind of knew? I think that was a purposeful disinformation
• 1:20:19
  to disinform someone. I think so.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: Well, why? Maybe it's true.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, go ahead.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: We'll pause right here and use the restroom.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: We'll be right back.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: I really.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No worries.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: No worries.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: We'll be right back. We're talking about this whole Zeta
• 1:20:33
  Reticuli thing.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: When you're dealing with so many different crafts and so
• 1:20:41
  many different things, the idea that only one species or
• 1:20:45
  one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems
• 1:20:48
  kind of silly. If the universe is populated by all
• 1:20:52
  these things.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 3: Does it?
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: Does it? Kind of.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: Kind of.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, the universe is really big. Do you think
• 1:21:02
  everybody can find this place?
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: I would imagine it's like spots that you visit like
• 1:21:10
  there's Machu Picchu. There's ancient Egypt. There's sub-Saharan Africa. There's
• 1:21:16
  a bunch of different places where people go, just humans
• 1:21:19
  on earth. I would imagine if you have an understanding
• 1:21:22
  of how life is evolving in the cosmos, there's probably
• 1:21:27
  stages where things reach certain levels. And if you are a.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: But they're far apart.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: They're far apart. I mean, one could be in this
• 1:21:36
  quadrant of the Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that
• 1:21:40
  point where they can travel and explore. And there's a
• 1:21:45
  far distant point where another civilization can do that. And,
• 1:21:51
  I mean, really? Do you think there are that many...
• 1:21:53
  I don't think there are that many civilizations visiting us.
• 1:21:57
  There's certainly... There's no doubt that there's one from somewhere,
• 1:22:02
  another planet, another time, another dimension, whatever it may be.
• 1:22:06
  Someone else is here. We're not the top, you know,
• 1:22:12
  of the pyramid.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: We're absolutely not there. There's no question.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I think if you got technology that, say, let's
• 1:22:22
  just say the greys. Let's say the greys are real.
• 1:22:24
  Let's say they fly around these little crafts. Why would
• 1:22:27
  we assume that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume
• 1:22:29
  that technology gets to the point where not only are
• 1:22:31
  they far more advanced than them, but they also are
• 1:22:34
  completely undetectable?
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Well, if you want to view the universe as infinite,
• 1:22:39
  then it never stops.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: It scales out.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: There's somebody about them. And there's somebody above them and
• 1:22:44
  there's somebody above that. And it never stops.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking
• 1:22:48
  about quantum entanglement.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: And she was talking about.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: How maybe our understanding of space and the distance between
• 1:22:56
  things is limited by what our current technology is and
• 1:23:03
  our current understanding of what space and time actually are. Absolutely.
• 1:23:09
  What she was saying is there might not be– we
• 1:23:13
  might at one point in time, given enough time, thousands
• 1:23:16
  of years or whatever, be able to instantaneously travel anywhere.
• 1:23:20
  And that just how like quantum– like subatomic particles are
• 1:23:25
  connected in some sort of a strange way that we
• 1:23:27
  don't totally understand even at far– spooky action at a.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: Distance, right?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: As Einstein said, yeah.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: That we might eventually get to a point where that's
• 1:23:35
  how travel works. It's instantaneous travel.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 4: Everywhere.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: I think we just have hints of these technologies. Look, everything,
• 1:23:43
  you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that,
• 1:23:46
  that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on
• 1:23:54
  and how they relate to time and how they relate
• 1:23:58
  to things in our universe. But that may be nothing.
• 1:24:04
  There may be an entire level of physics that we're
• 1:24:07
  unfamiliar with that these crafts, these people, or these civilizations
• 1:24:14
  just utilize. Of course.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: I mean if you just stop and think about going
• 1:24:24
  from Morse code to a cell phone in a relatively
• 1:24:29
  short period of time historically. If you go to the
• 1:24:31
  difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of
• 1:24:35
  a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available. The
• 1:24:38
  difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right. It is a massive, crazy change, right?
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: So 2026 to 2226, who fucking knows what we're talking about?
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: Especially when you have sentient AI... You have nuclear power
• 1:24:59
  plants that are controlling sentient AI that are fueling them
• 1:25:02
  and giving them resources.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: You really have no limit to where this goes. You
• 1:25:10
  scale out 1,000 years. You scale out 2,000 years.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: You really can't scale out 1,000 years. Right.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: It's not possible.
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: Because even at 100 years, it's way, way more than
• 1:25:23
  we would have ever considered.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: Also, it's exponential.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: Right. That's why you can't scale out to 1,000 years.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: If you think it's exponential now, imagine when you have
• 1:25:32
  AI able to generate better versions of itself, which is
• 1:25:35
  what's happening with ChatGPT-5. It's essentially made by ChatGPT-4.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: AI is absolutely the death of us. There's no question.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we're certainly going to become obsolete in terms of
• 1:25:49
  our thinking.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: If we're obsolete in terms of our thinking, we're obsolete.
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, all AI needs is hands, right?
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 4: I think we integrate.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: That's what I think happens.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: It's a scary thought. Yeah, I was going to say,
• 1:26:06
  and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because
• 1:26:09
  it's like we're going to integrate. I think it's inevitable.
• 1:26:11
  I think you're right about that. We're just going there.
• 1:26:14
  It's not like even if you and I are not
• 1:26:16
  going to actually do it, somebody will, and it's going
• 1:26:18
  to integrate because other people will, and it's going to happen.
• 1:26:21
  But it's still the same primate. We're still the same human.
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: Sort of, but we already have problems with joints, and
• 1:26:27
  so we replace them with fake ones.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 4: You know, titanium knees and, you know.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but they don't work as good.
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 4: They don't for now.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. But before, they used to not work at all. Like,
• 1:26:38
  you know, I've met people that had surgeries in the 1980s,
• 1:26:42
  like knee surgeries, and oh, my God, they're crippled for life.
• 1:26:47
  Even though they put your knee back together again, it's
• 1:26:49
  still destroyed. You know, you get a knee surgery today,
• 1:26:52
  six months later, you're 100%.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: No, I'd love to know the future.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, it's kind of good.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: I'd love to know the future.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: So one of the things I want to talk about
• 1:27:00
  is the actual generator, this thing that works on this
• 1:27:08
  element that bombards it with radiation. How did you guys
• 1:27:12
  figure out what the function of it was and what
• 1:27:16
  it did? So when you're first introduced to this craft
• 1:27:20
  and you see– This dome.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: The reactor.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: The reactor that's covering this thing that's generating this power.
• 1:27:30
  What was the introduction to it?
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: How did they explain it to you?
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: The introduction was way before me. And that's where the
• 1:27:40
  guy prior to me either got hurt or killed. So
• 1:27:47
  they determined that this was the power source. And– At
• 1:27:51
  some point, they decided to take that out to the
• 1:27:55
  nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it.
• 1:27:59
  They X-rayed it. They only found a small tube that
• 1:28:04
  went around it. They really couldn't determine how it worked
• 1:28:08
  or what was going on. So at some point– and
• 1:28:14
  Barry made this somewhat clear that they– cut into the
• 1:28:21
  reactor while it was running, or while it was under load,
• 1:28:28
  I should say, and the reactor exploded. That's what killed
• 1:28:34
  or hurt the person that I replaced. But, um, it
• 1:28:40
  produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that propelled
• 1:28:49
  the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion. I mean,
• 1:28:53
  when they removed it, the craft didn't work. When they
• 1:28:55
  put it in, Every single other craft they found had
• 1:28:58
  something either exactly like it or similar to it. So
• 1:29:03
  they determined that was the power source. That's at the
• 1:29:06
  point that I was introduced into the project.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: So when you say gravitational wave, is that for lack
• 1:29:13
  of a better term or is it something that's measured?
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: No, it's for lack of a better term. Like there's
• 1:29:18
  nothing– I mean as I said in Luigi's movie, you
• 1:29:22
  can take magnets with light poles and push them together
• 1:29:24
  and they repel. But you can't take your hands ever
• 1:29:29
  and push on something and they repel them. That's a
• 1:29:31
  force field, right? That's science fiction stuff. But that's what
• 1:29:34
  this did. And this produced a field that repelled the
• 1:29:40
  craft from the ground.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: Did you try to touch it?
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: And when you tried to touch it, what did you feel?
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: An elastic field. You can push down, but you can't
• 1:29:50
  get close to it. The closer you get to it,
• 1:29:54
  the more it pushes back.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: How much distance between you and the actual thing?
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: I would say about.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: Six inches or so?
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe about nine inches, which is about a span. At
• 1:30:13
  some point, you can't push back on it at all.
• 1:30:16
  But the important thing is if you have a magnet,
• 1:30:22
  a little disc magnet sitting on the ground... And you
• 1:30:26
  have another magnet and you push on it, that magnet
• 1:30:30
  moves away, right?
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 2: Because it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The
• 1:30:37
  reactor didn't. If you had the reactor there and you
• 1:30:41
  pushed back on it, it didn't push away when you
• 1:30:45
  pushed on it.
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: It just prevented you from touching it.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: And so when Dennis said, go out there and look
• 1:30:50
  under the craft, here's the craft. whatever it weighs, suspending
• 1:30:59
  itself above the ground, and I went underneath it, you
• 1:31:02
  would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing,
• 1:31:06
  and I should be squashed without any doubt, but I'm not.
• 1:31:12
  There's no feeling there at all. So it's not translating
• 1:31:17
  its weight or its push to the ground and pushing
• 1:31:21
  off the ground. It's just canceling out its weight, which
• 1:31:25
  is something completely different.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: And so when– so element 115, so you have it
• 1:31:35
  in this triangle-shaped form. Did you ask how they got
• 1:31:40
  it into a triangle-shaped form? Was it made like this?
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 4: This is how it.
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Came in the reactor. I'm sure I did. But, I mean,
• 1:31:46
  it only worked like that. It worked like a stack
• 1:31:49
  of disks. And it had to be cut at a
• 1:31:51
  certain angle to work in the reactor.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: And did they say they cut it or did they
• 1:31:57
  say it was already cut?
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: Well, it was already cut and they were duplicating it.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: Pull that microphone up too. So they were duplicating it.
• 1:32:05
  Did they have more of it, this element?
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. They had quite a bit of it. So
• 1:32:11
  either there was a quantity in other crafts or other
• 1:32:15
  reactors that they removed.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: But was there any discussion that there had been some
• 1:32:21
  sort of an exchange where they had been giving this?
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: So one of the things like– do you know Diana Pasolkes?
• 1:32:28
  She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs
• 1:32:32
  and she's worked with Gary Nolan on material recollection from
• 1:32:38
  supposed crash sites. And she said that the way these
• 1:32:43
  researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: I guess that's possible.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, doesn't it make sense if this thing crashed,
• 1:32:55
  why is it perfect? Why is it not destroyed?
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: Look, I've heard so many– I'm not into UFOs.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: Which is hilarious.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. I'm just interested in the technology and I
• 1:33:09
  feel very privileged to have been involved in the project.
• 1:33:13
  But I don't know. I don't think– I don't think
• 1:33:20
  there can be that many crashes. Do you?
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: This advanced technology, you think they're coming to Earth and
• 1:33:25
  just– there's a thunderstorm and they're crashing into the ground.
• 1:33:29
  I'm not buying that.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: There's one logical explanation that does actually make sense. There
• 1:33:36
  were some high-altitude nuclear tests that they did.
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: Well, there was the fatigue test back in the 60s.
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: Starfish Prime.
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: And Starfish Prime, right.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: If you had no idea that this was about to
• 1:33:50
  happen and you were hovering over Earth observing us.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: What are the chances? I mean, what are the chances?
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: They're not very high.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, what are the chances a crash is
• 1:34:00
  coming over and a nuclear test at that exact second?
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: Unless there's a lot more observation than we know and
• 1:34:09
  that they just observe us in a way that we.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 4: Can't see them.
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: Especially if you're going back to the 1950s and 1960s.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 4: We have very few satellites.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: That was the nuclear cowboy era where there were just.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: Starfish Prime. Explain to people what they did.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. They had a 1.4 megaton detonation up there and
• 1:34:33
  just– I think all they did– let's see what happens
• 1:34:37
  if we blow it up at this altitude. I mean
• 1:34:39
  that's crazy. There was another test planned to blow up
• 1:34:44
  on the moon just to make the Russians look– You know,
• 1:34:49
  like we were awesome.
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: Detonate the moon. What if they pushed it away and
• 1:34:59
  fucked up our orbit?
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would take a lot more.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember what the project was.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: Project A-19.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, A-19.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: Study of lunar research flights.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: Detonated nuclear bomb.
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: I can't pull up these numbers. But yeah, Project A-1-1-1-A.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 4: Crazy.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to do that. Because everybody on Earth
• 1:35:25
  could just go outside and look up the moon and
• 1:35:28
  get blown up.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: And the explosion would be faintly visible to the human eye,
• 1:35:33
  to people on Earth.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: I still think they should have done that.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: But– Yeah, but you're the guy that put a jet
• 1:35:41
  engine in the back of a Honda. Like, let's see.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 2: I honestly think they should detonate a nuclear bomb on
• 1:35:46
  the 4th of July every year. But that's just me.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: Well, also, you live in Nevada.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: That's what we're used to.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 4: I had a long history of them doing that.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: Oh, man.
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: So going back to this reactor. So– How was it
• 1:36:04
  explained to you? Did they explain to you how the
• 1:36:08
  technology works or what they know about it?
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Now, the way it was explained to me is when
• 1:36:15
  I got to be alone with Barry, he said he
• 1:36:18
  was excited to show this to me. He said, I'm
• 1:36:21
  going to turn– this is the reactor that we assume
• 1:36:23
  powers the craft. Sorry. No worries. I'm going to show
• 1:36:30
  you the reactor that powers the craft. And he turned
• 1:36:33
  it on, small little dome on a flat little plate.
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: Was this in the craft or was this on a table?
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: This is in the experimental area.
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 1: Okay. So this was not the one that was in
• 1:36:45
  the sport craft. This was another one.
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: This was another one.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: This is it right here.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: That's in the film.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on the table. And he had it there and
• 1:36:54
  he went over to the emitter and rotated it and
• 1:36:59
  he said, try and touch it. And I put my
• 1:37:01
  hand on it. And it rebounded off. And the closer
• 1:37:07
  you got to it, the more it pushed back. And
• 1:37:11
  that's a real shock because there's nothing that pushes back
• 1:37:14
  like that. That's a living force field. That's science fiction stuff.
• 1:37:18
  So that really got my attention.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: So explain what is happening like in terms of the
• 1:37:26
  rotation of this thing. Like what is happening? Like what
• 1:37:30
  energy is going into it that's causing it to go on?
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, we don't know that. I mean, that's the
• 1:37:36
  whole thing. It's pushing back. It's a repulsive gravitational field.
• 1:37:44
  As far as we know, gravity only has an attractive
• 1:37:48
  force to it. We've never, even with antimatter, we've analyzed
• 1:37:53
  it and it still has an attractive force to it.
• 1:37:57
  There's no repulsive force that we've discovered because that would
• 1:38:01
  be a great propulsion. But this repulsed. So this was
• 1:38:08
  a new field completely.
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 4: But how was he turning it on?
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: He had the emitter, which is a big pipe.
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 4: What is an emitter?
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: The craft itself has, on the main level, has the
• 1:38:25
  reactor and what we call the amplifiers. The reactor itself.
• 1:38:30
  and three amplifiers. Right underneath that, there are three emitters
• 1:38:36
  that are right under the amplifiers. And we believe the
• 1:38:39
  energy from the reactor is amplified by the emitters and.
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: By the amplifiers.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: By the amplifiers, sorry.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: Transmitted to the emitters. And they produce this field that
• 1:38:54
  lifts the craft off the ground. And that's how it works.
• 1:38:58
  But there is nothing, nothing even in our physics or
• 1:39:02
  our science that correlates to that at all.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: And what is the energy that's going to them that
• 1:39:09
  causes it to turn on?
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 3: We don't know.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, we just assume it's gravity because it's the
• 1:39:13
  only thing we know like that. But it has a
• 1:39:16
  negative gravity effect.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: It might be a new force entirely.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: But when you're saying– so you have this machine that's
• 1:39:27
  next to it that you do something to that causes
• 1:39:30
  it to turn on.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: The emitter.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: There's the amplifier.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: And there's the emitter, which looks like a big pipe.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: And if you rotate the emitter– I don't remember how
• 1:39:40
  many degrees. Was it 20 degrees? 20 degrees. 20 degrees
• 1:39:43
  or something like that. That connects it in some way
• 1:39:49
  to– The reactor, and it begins to be powered.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: And what is the emitter doing?
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 2: It emits that field. It's not a gravitational, it could
• 1:40:01
  be a gravitational field, but it's an anti-gravitational field that
• 1:40:04
  pushes on the ground.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: And what's happening in the emitter? Did you study the emitter?
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: Well, we attempted to, but no. There was nothing that
• 1:40:13
  we really came up with.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: What does it look like? Like, what's the internal structure
• 1:40:17
  of it?
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's a hollow pipe. with, I guess, little
• 1:40:24
  copper-colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the film.
• 1:40:32
  But there's, I mean, these guys have been working on
• 1:40:36
  it for years before I got there, and there was
• 1:40:39
  really no concept of what they were doing.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: Did they explain to you why Element 115 is crucial
• 1:40:48
  to this working?
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 4: What its role is?
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: So Element 115 was not even really discussed back when
• 1:40:58
  you were doing this. It wasn't even discovered or proven
• 1:41:02
  physically until it was a large hadron collider experiment in
• 1:41:08
  the 2000s, right?
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: No, I know they synthesized that. But look, in any element,
• 1:41:16
  there is always.
• 1:41:19
  There's always a large.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 3: Amount of– Well, it doesn't decay.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: That was the thing about– In the Large Hadron Collider Experiment,
• 1:41:31
  they were able to achieve it, but it only existed for.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 4: A few milliseconds.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry. I've had too much.
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: No worries. So– How did they define this material?
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, there's different isotopes of every element. And
• 1:41:54
  element 115, just like any other element, there can be
• 1:41:59
  a stable version of it and 100 or 50 different
• 1:42:04
  unstable elements to them.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: No, no. Just try to continue the train of thought.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 3: It's basically different isotopes of it.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, different isotopes. I need to stop drinking this.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: It's okay.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: Have a cup of coffee.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: I can't even remember.
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, we got coffee. Oh, my God. All right. Holy cow.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: There you go. That'll help.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's different isotopes.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: And you were able to physically touch this element?
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely. I was physically able to touch the element, yeah.
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: But when you're physically able to touch it, there's no
• 1:42:49
  adverse effects? It doesn't have any effect on the box?
• 1:42:52
  Does it feel like metal? Does it feel like plastic?
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: No, it looks copper-like. I mean, maybe it's not as
• 1:42:59
  dark as copper is, but it's that color. And I
• 1:43:06
  haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties
• 1:43:10
  that other elements don't have. It produces an anti-gravitational field.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: When combined with energy, with some kind of energy, it
• 1:43:21
  produces this field. And was it understood what is happening?
• 1:43:25
  Like what is the relationship between this element and this–
• 1:43:29
  like how is– what is going on? Like you're bombarding
• 1:43:33
  this element with something? Yeah.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: From what we understood– We x-rayed the reactor itself, and
• 1:43:41
  there was a path around it that looked– it made
• 1:43:46
  it look like a cyclotron. So it looked like there
• 1:43:51
  was an accelerator.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: So when they were explaining it to you, is this
• 1:43:57
  just your work partner that's explaining this stuff to you?
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: It's just Barry that's explaining it.
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: And did you ask him, how do you know this?
• 1:44:04
  Where are you getting this from?
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: Is this– Yeah, he got this information prior to me.
• 1:44:11
  And they X-rayed it, found a structure in there to
• 1:44:18
  where they believed it was an accelerator, and it was
• 1:44:22
  interacting the point of the... The 115 is in a
• 1:44:26
  little triangular piece, and it was interacting with that in
• 1:44:33
  some fashion.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: And did he say whether or not the United States
• 1:44:40
  government or whoever was doing this research had tried to
• 1:44:43
  recreate one of those on their own?
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: That was our job, to try to recreate one of
• 1:44:48
  those on their own.
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: But what was the metal that it was made out of?
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: We don't know.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: We don't know.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: Again, the metallurgy was not– that was not– It.
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: Seems insane that you couldn't communicate to them that whatever
• 1:45:02
  this stuff is made out of, this– whole thing acts
• 1:45:06
  as one cohesive unit. It's not like you could make
• 1:45:08
  the same exact thing with aluminum or carbon fiber.
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: No, you can't. This thing acted differently. This thing acted
• 1:45:15
  differently than any material that we knew. And, I mean,
• 1:45:19
  I think all the answers are in the metallurgy guys.
• 1:45:23
  You know, that's who knew what was going on, who
• 1:45:27
  was able to provide the answers. But as far as
• 1:45:32
  we knew, if we didn't have the connection– With those
• 1:45:35
  other groups, we weren't really going to make any progress.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: You were speculating that there was a type of metallic
• 1:45:44
  alloy that would work better with this concept. Was it Byzantine?
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 2: Bismuth?
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 4: Bismuth, yes.
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: Did I say that?
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 3: I don't think so. No?
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 4: It wasn't you?
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: No. Someone that I talked to was explaining to me.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: It's related to on the periodic table. I mean, Bismuth
• 1:46:04
  is above it. And 115 is below it. But we
• 1:46:08
  never did see any correlation between bismuth. This was a
• 1:46:12
  completely new material.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 4: Well, I think– oh, that's what it was. Oh, this
• 1:46:15
  is what it was.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: So one of the pieces that Gary Nolan had found
• 1:46:20
  that was– Gary Nolan is the guy at Stanford that
• 1:46:24
  has examined these pieces that are from supposedly crashed sites,
• 1:46:30
  crash sites where something had gone down and scattered. Some
• 1:46:35
  of these pieces, they're atomically layered.
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 2: I've heard that.
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: Magnesium and bismuth seem to be prevalent.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 2: Bismuth is the thing.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 2: Bismuth is the thing. It's right above 115 on the
• 1:46:46
  periodic chart, and there's something about that. There's something about 115. Yeah.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 6: All this weird magnetism stuff with bismuth. There's a video
• 1:46:55
  from the Action Lab, the strange magnetism of bismuth.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's diamagnetic. Yeah.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 4: So let him play it out a little bit.
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: What is diamagnetic?
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 2: Diamagnetic opposes magnetic fields.
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: I see.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: So it kind of makes sense if they're finding these
• 1:47:15
  pieces that are– the way he.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: Was explaining– That's business, yeah.
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: The way he's explaining this– whatever this alloy was, this
• 1:47:23
  very small piece that was found I believe in– prior
• 1:47:27
  to the 1970s. I don't remember the exact date that
• 1:47:29
  he's had. from one of these crash. One of them
• 1:47:31
  was from Brazil that they had recovered. And someone had
• 1:47:34
  gotten possession of it in the 1990s, and someone had
• 1:47:38
  gotten it eventually to Gary Nolan. He said that to
• 1:47:41
  create this on Earth, first of all, it can't be
• 1:47:43
  done with current technology.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 4: We don't have the ability to do this.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: The layering technology?
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: And that it would cost billions of dollars, just theoretically,
• 1:47:53
  to make this. And it doesn't exist.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is it.
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: Alleged extraterrestrial metal. The bottom of a wedge-chased craft in
• 1:48:02
  the 1940s, 26 alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns, dark
• 1:48:07
  bismuth with 100 to 200 microns of silver magnesium zinc alloy.
• 1:48:12
  Each piece received from the U.S. Army source were formed
• 1:48:16
  with a curvature that tapered. Oh, in the 40s.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: Good luck making that in the 40s.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 3: It says a wedge-shaped craft in the late 1940s. That's Roswell.
• 1:48:28
  I mean, that's Roswell.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what does it do? I would like
• 1:48:33
  to see the test results of just the material. We
• 1:48:37
  can make that now.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: We can?
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: One to four microns of bismuth? 200 microns of silver? Yeah.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 4: The thing is, like, making something like that in the 1940s.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: Is absolutely impossible. No, in the 40s, forget it.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 4: It's impossible.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: But, I mean, now we could fabricate something like that.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 1: And it would cost a shitload of money. So, like,
• 1:48:57
  the idea that you would make something like that and
• 1:48:58
  just scatter it around.
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 2: But what does it do?
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 4: What does it do?
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: Why is magnesium and bismuth? Why in that particular array?
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: There is something about bismuth. There was something about Bismuth.
• 1:49:12
  But that's why it's so fascinating. I would love to
• 1:49:15
  know where they– look, it's been 40 years. I would
• 1:49:17
  love to know.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 4: Where they're at now.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where they're at now. If they continued.
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 4: Well, they had to have continued. I can't imagine you going, eh,
• 1:49:24
  we're done.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: No, I mean they may have moved it. I mean
• 1:49:28
  like I said before, I mean they were anxious to
• 1:49:30
  move it out of there at that time.
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: Are you aware of the labyrinths in Egypt that they've discovered?
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: Are you talking about the columns?
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 4: No, no, no. This is unrelated. This is something different.
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: So Herodotus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick,
• 1:49:52
  he has Uncharted X on YouTube. It's an amazing channel
• 1:49:56
  where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely
• 1:50:00
  fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really
• 1:50:03
  got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and Egypt. left his
• 1:50:08
  field and started making these incredible videos, but he's highly intelligent,
• 1:50:13
  incredibly articulate. And so these videos are just absolutely fantastic.
• 1:50:17
  And really he's, he's very well versed scientifically. So you
• 1:50:24
  can understand these things and explain them to you. Like
• 1:50:27
  they're examining like the construction of the pyramids and the,
• 1:50:31
  whatever technology was used to carve the stones and, there's
• 1:50:35
  just so much of it that is like confusing because it's,
• 1:50:38
  it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication
• 1:50:42
  and technology that is involved in creating these things. Well,
• 1:50:45
  Herodotus described these labyrinths that were underground in Giza, not, not,
• 1:50:51
  not in Giza, but Hawara.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 4: Is that where it was? Jamie will find it.
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: But this, these, the way Herodotus described it, he said
• 1:51:00
  they were far superior and more impressive than the, the, The.
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 4: Pyramids of Giza.
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: Underground. Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all
• 1:51:13
  flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in
• 1:51:18
  order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area.
• 1:51:22
  So they changed the water table, fucked it up. This
• 1:51:24
  whole area got flooded.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 3: Did they know they were there when they accidentally?
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: No, they didn't because a lot of this stuff, like
• 1:51:29
  this is from thousands and thousands of years ago.
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 4: A lot of it was covered over with sand.
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: And there had been some explorers a long time ago
• 1:51:38
  that went there and saw some of what was in there.
• 1:51:41
  But the way Herodotus described it, it's just absolutely fantastic.
• 1:51:45
  So then they started using ground-penetrating radar. And they started
• 1:51:49
  using these various technologies that could detect what was under
• 1:51:51
  the surface. And one of the things that they found
• 1:51:54
  was there's a massive atrium. And inside this atrium– You
• 1:51:57
  mentioned this to me. Yes. There is a 40-meter-long metallic
• 1:52:02
  object inside. that is inside this atrium, 40 meters of
• 1:52:07
  some unknown metal.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 2: How deep is it?
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: I believe it's 100 meters into the ground.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: So you're telling me ground-penetrating radar can get to 100
• 1:52:17
  meters underground?
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: The stuff that Filippo Bondi has used from satellites gets
• 1:52:23
  more than a kilometer into the ground.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: With decent resolution?
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: Well, not decent resolution, but enough that you could see symmetry.
• 1:52:33
  Enough that they can also detect things that are well-known.
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: 100 meters.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: Chambers.
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 4: Well, listen to this.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: They detected accurately a particle collider in Italy that is
• 1:52:45
  inside of a mountain, 1.2 kilometers below the mountain. It
• 1:52:50
  sees through the mountain and can detect this thing in
• 1:52:53
  the exact diameter, the exact dimensions that this thing exists.
• 1:52:58
  So they can show you this.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: A particle collider?
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: Yes. So this is a particle collider that they know exists, right?
• 1:53:06
  So this is an actual particle collider.
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: So they're looking for it.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: Right. So it's just proof that this technology is not
• 1:53:12
  just– Well, wait.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: I mean hang on. I mean how do they know
• 1:53:15
  it's a particle collider?
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 6: Well, no.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: The particle collider exists. The Italians have this particle collider.
• 1:53:22
  It's known. They made it.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: It's like it's original. They didn't detect this underground. Right.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 4: No, it's not like we found a particle collider that
• 1:53:30
  didn't exist.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, that's what I thought you were saying.
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no.
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: So this particle collider, they use this technology to show
• 1:53:36
  that you can see straight through this mountain to this
• 1:53:40
  particle collider that's underneath the mountain. So they know the
• 1:53:44
  exact dimensions of this particle collider. You can see– you
• 1:53:46
  can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology,
• 1:53:50
  they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids.
• 1:53:53
  These columns are 22 meters, 20-plus meters in diameter, and
• 1:54:00
  they have something that resembles coils around all of them.
• 1:54:04
  And they're positioned at various points all around where the
• 1:54:08
  structure is. It goes all the way down, hundreds of
• 1:54:11
  meters down, and then it goes to another structure, and
• 1:54:13
  the whole complex of these structures goes to over a
• 1:54:17
  kilometer into the ground.
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: But how can you see a kilometer underground?
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: Well, you would have to understand this technology. Was it
• 1:54:24
  called radio tomography? He explained it to me.
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: Synthetic aperture radar, right?
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: Well, whatever this technology— And seeing a kilometer underground at
• 1:54:33
  decent resolution?
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 1: It's not decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the
• 1:54:38
  scope of what it is. It's enough to understand where
• 1:54:40
  spaces are and where.
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: Like everybody knows about this but me.
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: I mean— It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you the podcast,
• 1:54:48
  and I'll send you some of his conferences— Where he
• 1:54:51
  was explaining this to room fills with scientists.
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: You would think they'd be anxious to dig this up.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 4: They are.
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: There's actual like studies that are currently being discussed. Well,
• 1:55:02
  they already know that there's these channels that go in
• 1:55:05
  the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand. Because,
• 1:55:09
  you know, the sand is constantly moving. But these things
• 1:55:12
  go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 2: Look, if they find shafts hundreds of meters down with
• 1:55:19
  coils around them. Look, that's advanced technology.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 4: This is the point.
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: This is the point. Whatever this thing is that they
• 1:55:27
  have in an atrium, like if they said that they
• 1:55:30
  got that craft from an archaeological dig, I mean, maybe
• 1:55:36
  the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and
• 1:55:39
  thousands and thousands of years ago.
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: I believe that's possible.
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well– The object that you're– I didn't– I actually
• 1:55:47
  got to speak to Filippo Biondi, by the way. He's
• 1:55:51
  in Italy. He's in Rome. We got to speak Italian.
• 1:55:53
  We got to talk. And we talked about that. I
• 1:55:56
  had no idea they found something with a metal object
• 1:55:59
  down there though.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 4: This is not Filippo Biondi's work.
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, pardon me. This is some different scientists that are
• 1:56:04
  just studying the labyrinths. Jamie, pull up some of the
• 1:56:08
  schematics of the labyrinth.
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 3: So in the labyrinth, there's like a– Sorry.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: There's a large atrium.
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 4: You got to pee again?
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 4: Head up.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 2: God, I feel like a fucking asshole.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: Don't worry about it.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 4: Get some air.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: Clear your head.
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: I have a prostate.
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: So in this labyrinth, there's a large atrium. Okay. And
• 1:56:26
  in this large atrium, there is essentially a tic-tac.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: A tic-tac shaped object that is 40 meters long. That
• 1:56:37
  is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is.
• 1:56:41
  They don't know how it works. But this structure is
• 1:56:44
  all underground in Egypt.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 3: Which is wild because– and how– it's 100 meters?
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: We'll get a chance to look at it.
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 4: This is Hawara. Wow.
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: So there it says the 40-meter metallic object. See that
• 1:56:58
  where it says Hawara rising?
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: So if you click on that, it talks about the
• 1:57:02
  40-meter metallic object discovered in Egyptians.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: I can't.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 6: We can't really report on the video.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: Subterranean labyrinth.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 3: It's just people talking about it.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 4: Right. Got it.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: So whatever it is, play out some of the video
• 1:57:16
  just so we can talk about it. So this whole thing,
• 1:57:22
  if you see some of the images that they're discussing.
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 3: My friends, Louis DeCourier and William Brown.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 6: And today we're going to talk.
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 8: To you about the work that I had done in
• 1:57:32
  Chicago and the team that was in Poland as well.
• 1:57:38
  And at that point is when I had met the
• 1:57:40
  person Lucina Lobos, who later became my wife six months later.
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 7: So, yeah, you actually were working with the NRAG and
• 1:57:51
  then the– I don't know what.
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 4: They're talking about. Yeah, this is not going to help us.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 1: But if you could just go to some of the
• 1:57:56
  images where they've sort of outlined– I was trying.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 4: To find it.
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 6: That's– There is not a very clear image of the
• 1:58:02
  metallic object that you're talking about.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 4: No, that's fine.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 1: But just the labyrinth itself, what do you think the
• 1:58:06
  structure of it was?
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 6: I don't know where they got this from. It's also
• 1:58:09
  the other issue.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 3: 40 meter mystery metal object.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 6: That's a weird rendering that doesn't usually come out.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: But there's some other drawings of like from the Herodotus days.
• 1:58:20
  So this is what they think it looks like under
• 1:58:22
  the ground. Which is fucking completely bonkers. And if there
• 1:58:27
  is some 40-meter metallic object that's under the ground, and
• 1:58:31
  we are talking about like the sport model being a
• 1:58:33
  part of an archaeological dig, they might have found something
• 1:58:37
  back then and worshipped that thing and had that thing
• 1:58:40
  as like– They turned.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: It into this.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 3: As a– yeah. I think there's something to that.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: Well, all these people that believe that there was an
• 1:58:52
  incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster– that
• 1:58:58
  reset civilization and it took thousands of years and what
• 1:59:00
  we are essentially is uh not the first advanced civilization
• 1:59:05
  like but a rebuild yeah a rebuild thousands and thousands
• 1:59:08
  and thousands of years later you know that rings true
• 1:59:12
  with me and me too as graham hancock always says
• 1:59:16
  we're a species with amnesia and i think that makes
• 1:59:19
  sense and i think If you're dealing with people that
• 1:59:21
  were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000
• 1:59:25
  years ago and it took us forever to rebuild to
• 1:59:28
  where we are now, I think we've gone down a
• 1:59:30
  completely different path than whatever the people that were able
• 1:59:34
  to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic
• 1:59:36
  megalithic structures. We don't understand what technology we used. And
• 1:59:42
  it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to
• 1:59:45
  do this.
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 3: It's even like when we see those big gigantic stones,
• 1:59:48
  and they're not just piled together. They're like interlocked in
• 1:59:51
  weird shapes and all that.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 2: How did that happen?
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, those are things that, yeah, I agree with you.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's
• 1:59:59
  tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more
• 2:00:02
  advanced than we think, People should have been back then,
• 2:00:06
  but they're probably more advanced than we are now with
• 2:00:09
  some different kind of technology.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 3: And maybe– again, it's like advanced but in a different way.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 1: A different pathway. They didn't go– Our way.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: They didn't go internal combustion engine and electronics.
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 3: Because we would see something.
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 4: Exactly. Right. But might not.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: If you're thinking about 100,000 years ago, there might not
• 2:00:31
  be anything left, which is part of the problem.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able
• 2:00:37
  to figure out a way to divert some of the
• 2:00:40
  water there, see all layers converge in a central corridor
• 2:00:44
  or avenue. He said like the atrium of a shopping
• 2:00:46
  mall where you could see all floors from one vantage point.
• 2:00:49
  A hall consisting of a massive space 40 meters wide
• 2:00:53
  and no less than 100 meters long. My personal interpretation,
• 2:00:57
  Tim said, is that the entire hall was constructed to
• 2:00:59
  house a centrally positioned freestanding object. about 40 meters long.
• 2:01:05
  So this hall, they believe, was constructed to house whatever
• 2:01:09
  this 40-meter-long unknown metallic object is.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: How could they not dig that up?
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense
• 2:01:15
  amount of money. And the thing is about the Egyptians,
• 2:01:19
  the people that run it, I had one of them
• 2:01:21
  on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about
• 2:01:25
  his ideas of who built this and what. And when
• 2:01:28
  you say, how did they make these structures, 2,300,000 stones,
• 2:01:33
  that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The biggest stones
• 2:01:36
  cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through
• 2:01:38
  the mountain. And it's like, this was a national project.
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: The Egyptians did everything.
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 6: Shut the fuck up.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: Because they were awesome.
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: I'm sure they were awesome.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 4: I'm sure they were awesome.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology.
• 2:01:51
  Just to be able to cut those things. Like one
• 2:01:54
  of the things that they don't understand is these vases.
• 2:01:57
  These vases that they made that are perfectly– Perfectly designed
• 2:02:02
  where there's– the difference between like the edges and the
• 2:02:07
  symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair. And
• 2:02:11
  these are cut out of incredibly hard granite. They don't– Really?
• 2:02:14
  Speaker 2: I've never heard– yeah.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: You guys are familiar with that?
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 4: This is a 3D print of one of them. That exists.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're fascinated by the perfection. Yes. And they're saying,
• 2:02:24
  how did they do that? We don't even know.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 4: How to do that.
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: Incredibly hard stone.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: Built with an incredible precision. Yes.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: And granite?
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: Granite.
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: Incredibly hard granite, incredible precision back when they had no
• 2:02:36
  metal alloys. They had copper tools. It doesn't make any sense.
• 2:02:41
  None of it makes any sense. Then there's the symmetry
• 2:02:44
  involved in some of these statues.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: Like they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between
• 2:02:50
  the eyes, the nose, the lips. No one's face is symmetrical.
• 2:02:54
  Your left side of your face is different. If you
• 2:02:56
  combine the two sides, it looks weird. But when you
• 2:02:59
  look at these statues, these statues, which are massive, carved
• 2:03:03
  out of granite, again, supposedly before they had steel. Like
• 2:03:07
  they didn't have diamond-tipped instruments to do this. They polished them.
• 2:03:11
  They're perfectly symmetrical and massive. Some of them are 1,000 tons.
• 2:03:16
  And they don't have any understanding of how these people
• 2:03:18
  built these things or put them there. And they all
• 2:03:20
  seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 2: How could you not want to dig those up and
• 2:03:30
  look at them? I mean they're concerned about national pride,
• 2:03:33
  but if you dig them.
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: Up– It's not just national pride. It's the pride of
• 2:03:37
  the people that have been espousing this one narrative for
• 2:03:41
  so long. That's part of the problem, the gatekeepers of
• 2:03:43
  the information.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: It's still national pride.
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: It is, but these people are idiots. That's part of
• 2:03:48
  the problem. Like their own ego is preventing them from
• 2:03:52
  being open-minded and– calling out to the world's research communities
• 2:03:57
  and saying, listen, there's something going on here. We don't
• 2:04:00
  have the big picture. We have a picture that we
• 2:04:03
  have formed from a limited amount of information, and we've
• 2:04:06
  been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming. We also know
• 2:04:09
  that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name
• 2:04:13
  and carve their hieroglyphs into existing things. They would claim
• 2:04:17
  existing things. Some of the carvings on these things are
• 2:04:20
  far cruder in the way they've done it than the
• 2:04:23
  actual construction of the thing. And they think that these
• 2:04:26
  are old things that were there already, and then these
• 2:04:29
  later pharaohs chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 3: And another thing, and this has been mentioned a lot,
• 2:04:39
  is the fact that there's no tools that were ever
• 2:04:42
  discovered before. In those areas that would prove that those
• 2:04:46
  things were made with– they had to use tools. They
• 2:04:48
  had to have something.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 3: So there's not even that. That's not even available. So
• 2:04:53
  it's like how did they do it? Did they hide
• 2:04:55
  the tools? Did they– I mean why would they do that?
• 2:04:58
  It doesn't– none of it makes any sense.
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: And also these incredibly hard vases that you find, they're
• 2:05:04
  the oldest ones. They're the things that they find in
• 2:05:06
  the oldest sites. It's like the most complicated, complex, confusing
• 2:05:09
  technology seems to be the oldest stuff.
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 3: There's also like– You had another guy here that does
• 2:05:16
  research on Peru and he was– I can't remember his name.
• 2:05:20
  I got to meet him.
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 1: Luke Caverns?
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 4: Was it him?
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show
• 2:05:24
  about that, about the ancient stuff that they're finding underground
• 2:05:28
  in Peru.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 4: There's a couple of guys.
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: What was the other guy?
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: He– He's got black hair. I can't remember his name.
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: That's Luke. Younger guy?
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, younger guy.
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's Luke.
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 3: So basically he was talking about the fact that there's
• 2:05:39
  two layers of ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer
• 2:05:42
  is younger. And what's below it is what's really incredible.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 4: And more complex.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 3: More complex. But they don't want to go there because
• 2:05:50
  you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on
• 2:05:54
  top of it. So what's happening is they're having trouble
• 2:05:57
  now getting permission to go to the lower level, which
• 2:06:00
  is even better. Because they're going to have to break
• 2:06:03
  an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: Well, this is a common theme among people. We build
• 2:06:12
  on older sites. There's a place that I go to
• 2:06:14
  in Italy in the Amalfi Coast. And there's this incredible
• 2:06:17
  old church there that's over a thousand years old. But
• 2:06:21
  it's built on an even older church. And there's a
• 2:06:24
  plexiglass floor.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 3: That shows the old church.
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: The old church is underneath it. And you can see
• 2:06:29
  the structure of this old church. And I was asking them,
• 2:06:32
  how old is the old church? They go, we don't know.
• 2:06:35
  It's over 1,000 years old. So it's over 1,000 years old,
• 2:06:38
  this church. And then this really old church is on
• 2:06:41
  top of it that's like hundreds and hundreds of years
• 2:06:44
  old also. But they built it on top of an
• 2:06:47
  existing structure. So this is a common theme. This is
• 2:06:50
  a theme in Peru where you see the Inca construction,
• 2:06:53
  which is like much less complicated, smaller stones, mud mortar.
• 2:06:58
  But it's on top. of these megalithic structures that are
• 2:07:01
  carved in these jigsaw shapes where it seems like they've
• 2:07:05
  been melted. It's freaky stuff. They have no understanding of
• 2:07:10
  what technology was used, who did it, how they did it,
• 2:07:12
  how they moved these immense thousand-ton stones and cut them
• 2:07:17
  with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will
• 2:07:19
  absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of that stuff that's really, really freaky.
• 2:07:29
  And then you get into old religious texts, and that's
• 2:07:32
  when things get really freaky. You get to things like
• 2:07:34
  the Book of Enoch that talk about the watchers who
• 2:07:37
  came down from the sky and created humans.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: A lot of unusual stuff happened a long time ago.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: And we don't have a good record of it. We
• 2:07:48
  just have what we know, and what we know we
• 2:07:50
  get very arrogant about. We know what happened 300 years ago.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: That's a really good point. Of what we know we
• 2:07:55
  get very arrogant about. Right. And it's also– And anything
• 2:07:58
  else we don't accept.
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: These academics and these people that are in charge of
• 2:08:03
  the narrative like the people in Egypt where they're very
• 2:08:06
  arrogant and they're gatekeepers because their whole identity is based
• 2:08:10
  on them being the ones that explain to the world
• 2:08:13
  how these incredible sites were produced. And if something comes
• 2:08:16
  along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it.
• 2:08:20
  They fight it because it's part of them. It's their identity.
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 3: When I spoke to Filippo Biondi, I talked to one
• 2:08:26
  of my cousins in Italy. I spent a lot of
• 2:08:28
  my time in Italy when I was younger. One of them,
• 2:08:30
  she was younger than I was when I was there,
• 2:08:32
  but she's now become a respected archaeologist in Rome, and
• 2:08:37
  she's an Egyptologist. And I went out to Italy to
• 2:08:42
  visit family, and I was sitting at the table. This
• 2:08:44
  is not even that long ago. And she's sitting next
• 2:08:47
  to me. And I mean, I remember her from being
• 2:08:49
  a kid. And she nudged me at the table. Her
• 2:08:53
  family's all academic. Everybody's a doctor or scientist or something
• 2:08:57
  like that. So there's always that pride of the science.
• 2:09:01
  And she nudges me. And in Italian, she says, I'm
• 2:09:04
  really interested in what you do, what you're looking into.
• 2:09:08
  And I knew what she meant. It was about UFOs.
• 2:09:11
  And I just responded. I'm even more interested in what
• 2:09:15
  you know about what's out there in Egypt. And she
• 2:09:20
  looked at me and she says, we don't really know
• 2:09:24
  all of it. She said, a lot of it makes
• 2:09:28
  no sense. But she said it whispering because she knew
• 2:09:32
  that that's not well seen at the table because now
• 2:09:35
  she's going to come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh,
• 2:09:39
  my God, she's going to come out of the mainstream world.
• 2:09:43
  you know, so, and then she, she came, she went
• 2:09:47
  to her place and I was still there. We were
• 2:09:49
  there for a couple of days. She came and gave
• 2:09:51
  me a little book. And, uh, it, in Italian, I
• 2:09:56
  don't know how to say it. The, the, the missing,
• 2:10:01
  I don't know how to say it in English, but
• 2:10:03
  the missing Vangelo, like the missing scriptures, basically. It's a
• 2:10:07
  little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are
• 2:10:11
  not in the that speak of things that are not
• 2:10:14
  convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: And one of the fascinating things about these missing scriptures
• 2:10:22
  is they found them alongside existing scriptures. So when they
• 2:10:26
  found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found
• 2:10:29
  these in a cave in Qumran. It's kind of a
• 2:10:31
  crazy thing. Like someone threw a rock and hit a
• 2:10:34
  clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot.
• 2:10:36
  So they threw a rock into this high cave and,
• 2:10:41
  realized there was something in there. And then they started
• 2:10:43
  looking and then they found these scrolls that were in
• 2:10:45
  these clay pots. Inside the scrolls, they found the book
• 2:10:48
  of Isaiah. It was a thousand years older than the
• 2:10:53
  oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had
• 2:10:55
  ever found. And it's identical verbatim to the book of
• 2:11:01
  Isaiah that is currently in the Bible. Along with it
• 2:11:04
  is the book of Enoch. And the book of Enoch
• 2:11:07
  is fucking squirrely.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the book of Enoch is squirrely. That's a good
• 2:11:12
  way to describe it.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 1: Just a few rabbis decided that the book of Enoch
• 2:11:17
  was too weird because it didn't jive with the Torah,
• 2:11:19
  so they left it out of the biblical canon. That's right.
• 2:11:22
  That's why it's not taught. But the book of Enoch
• 2:11:25
  is readily available.
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 4: You can read it.
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: And it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian Bible
• 2:11:29
  includes the book of Enoch.
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, and those are the people that supposedly— Are in
• 2:11:33
  possession of the Ark of the Covenant.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 3: The Ark of the Covenant, yeah.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: Which is like– Graham Hancock talks about it. There's like
• 2:11:39
  a person is set to– like they have a job
• 2:11:42
  of watching the Ark of the Covenant. But it's known
• 2:11:44
  that it's going to kill them. So they all get
• 2:11:46
  cataracts and cancer.
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like it has like bad things.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it has some sort of radiation apparently. And they
• 2:11:51
  exhibit signs of radiation poisoning when these people are designed
• 2:11:55
  to be the curators.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: Where is the Ark of the Covenant supposed to be?
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 4: In Ethiopia. Supposedly in Ethiopia.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 3: So you guys think that's– I mean I'm very– I
• 2:12:03
  think it's ancient technology.
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably ancient technology. It's probably some completely
• 2:12:10
  not understood ancient technology.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: I'm not discounting it. I'm just wondering.
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I like the fact that you're skeptical even though
• 2:12:16
  you have the craziest fucking story of all time. But
• 2:12:20
  it speaks to your integrity. It really does because you're
• 2:12:23
  not a guy who believes kooky shit. So for you,
• 2:12:26
  a guy who doesn't believe kooky shit is a hard,
• 2:12:28
  rational scientist who's an engineer who's done things. Like put
• 2:12:31
  a rocket engine in the back of a fucking Honda
• 2:12:34
  or a hydrogen-powered Corvette. And then you go and see
• 2:12:38
  these things. You're like, wait, what the fuck is this
• 2:12:41
  thing you.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: Have in this hangar? I worship technology.
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 2: Nothing else. Right. So, I mean, to hear something like that,
• 2:12:49
  do you think that that actually exists?
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: Graham Hancock is convinced it exists. It's very carefully guarded,
• 2:12:58
  and these people have been guarding it for centuries.
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's throughout history, right?
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 3: Yes. I mean, there's too many missing pieces of the
• 2:13:04
  puzzle to really say one way or another.
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: Whether or not it was just mythology or an actual... Right.
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: But it is weird that he's talked to these people
• 2:13:14
  that have these fucking cataracts, and these people all say
• 2:13:16
  the same thing. They die. The people that are designed
• 2:13:19
  or that are designated to be the curators of this I.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: Relate this back to– I think I told you the
• 2:13:26
  first time we met. If somebody found a nuclear reactor
• 2:13:31
  back at that time and they took it apart, they
• 2:13:34
  just would drop dead from the radio.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: Magically from that and anybody that came in to check
• 2:13:41
  on them would also die and they go this is
• 2:13:44
  evil evil it's cursed or whatever.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: Or and something that you're not supposed to have access
• 2:13:50
  to because or some.
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 2: Other yeah right and it could this be something at
• 2:13:55
  another level yes you.
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 3: Know that i have to say and i mean i'm
• 2:14:00
  no one to say it but i struggle with divine
• 2:14:02
  stuff because i'm like it This craft or this technology,
• 2:14:07
  I mean, our phones to somebody a thousand years ago
• 2:14:11
  would look like some divine object. I mean, it's technology
• 2:14:15
  to us. So we have to be very cautious. I'm
• 2:14:19
  not saying there is no divine something. Maybe there is.
• 2:14:22
  We don't know. But I think technology really could mask
• 2:14:26
  itself as divine power. 100%.
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: Or divine energy itself could be technology.
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: True.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: Taken to its final form.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 3: That I'm open to.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: Well, if you think about what we're talking about with
• 2:14:40
  sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make
• 2:14:43
  better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone
• 2:14:48
  for a thousand years to do this? Well, what do
• 2:14:50
  you have? You have something that can harness the power
• 2:14:52
  of the universe itself. It has access to zero point energy,
• 2:14:56
  can do whatever. I mean, it has a complete understanding
• 2:14:59
  of quantum entanglement. Complete understanding of how the universe functions,
• 2:15:04
  how it was created. There's new theories that believe that
• 2:15:07
  the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole.
• 2:15:09
  They're trying to figure out whether or not there ever
• 2:15:12
  was a Big Bang or if it's a continuous cycle
• 2:15:15
  of things existing inside black holes.
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 2: So where do you think we are? What do you
• 2:15:20
  think this is?
• 2:15:21
  Speaker 1: I think it's a process. I think we're at a
• 2:15:24
  stage of a process. Our problem is we have ideology.
• 2:15:28
  We have dogma.
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 4: We have ego.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: We have people that are smarter than most people but
• 2:15:35
  want to think that they have all the information, and
• 2:15:37
  I don't think they do. And then we have open-minded
• 2:15:39
  people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks.
• 2:15:41
  And they're all trying to figure it out while we're
• 2:15:43
  making a fucking digital God. Why these weirdo on the
• 2:15:47
  spectrum eggheads.
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: We are literally manufacturing our own God.
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 3: We are.
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 1: If you take that and you extrapolate, you go from
• 2:15:56
  where it is now, you think about the exponential increase
• 2:15:58
  of technology. Well, where does that go? It kind of
• 2:16:01
  goes divine. I mean, that might be what God is.
• 2:16:05
  We want to think that God is a thing that exists.
• 2:16:08
  It just exists. It created everything. maybe we make God.
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're on the same channel. Yeah, I
• 2:16:18
  think we created God.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: I think human curiosity and this thirst for innovation is
• 2:16:24
  all part of it.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 3: I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me.
• 2:16:30
  I mean, I spent four years with Bob and had
• 2:16:31
  to build it in a virtual environment. So I kind
• 2:16:34
  of had to think about it while I'm doing it.
• 2:16:36
  But If you really think about what this technology that
• 2:16:40
  you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of
• 2:16:45
  whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field,
• 2:16:48
  but it creates a field that we're not familiar with.
• 2:16:51
  And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie.
• 2:16:53
  There was a test that was done in the lab
• 2:16:56
  that froze a candle flame.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: Right, right.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 3: Okay. But the, but the photons are still visible within
• 2:17:03
  our realm here outside of the field. And you're still
• 2:17:07
  seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen. To me,
• 2:17:12
  is that technology like a black hole? Is it some
• 2:17:18
  type of time stop? And it basically gives us the
• 2:17:24
  power to utilize time in our advantage. If you think
• 2:17:29
  about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time.
• 2:17:34
  Anything takes time. whether it's computing power. Now we're seeing
• 2:17:37
  quantum computers do things that they're faster and faster and
• 2:17:41
  they could do a trillion processes in an instant and
• 2:17:44
  Japan is coming up with better and then China. But
• 2:17:47
  because everything has to do with how long does it
• 2:17:50
  take to do that?
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 3: If a technology can make you bypass time, it's like
• 2:17:57
  the record player playing music. But you're you're now able
• 2:18:01
  to lift it, lift the little pin on the record
• 2:18:04
  and move it to wherever you want.
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 4: And that's a good way to describe.
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 3: And now at that point. Time is in your hands.
• 2:18:12
  And if we have a technology similar to what you saw,
• 2:18:16
  because you always said gravity is a control.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: Gravity is time.
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 3: It's interlocked, right?
• 2:18:22
  Speaker 1: Space and time.
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 3: So if that's interlocked, then we have to look at
• 2:18:28
  it not just as a propulsion system or some type
• 2:18:32
  of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and
• 2:18:36
  how can we use that to our benefit to evolve? Sorry.
• 2:18:39
  To evolve faster. Because, again, the faster we can compute,
• 2:18:45
  the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving.
• 2:18:49
  And if we could lift that needle and bring it
• 2:18:52
  faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, should we be allowed to do that?
• 2:18:59
  Speaker 4: Us in our current form.
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I know. Like I said, I'm not exactly on
• 2:19:06
  our side anymore.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: Well, that was one of the– do you remember, Jamie,
• 2:19:10
  who discussed the way they were describing the use of
• 2:19:13
  some of this alien technology as– instantaneous weapon deployment systems.
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure we should be trusted with
• 2:19:22
  this stuff.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: No, really.
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: Well, if you think about what we're doing in Iran
• 2:19:27
  right now, you would say no. Yeah.
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: I would say no.
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: We're still flying over patches of dirt and bombing the
• 2:19:34
  fucking shit.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 3: Out of it.
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 2: No, imagine if we had something a million times that power.
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 2: Really, humans should not be trusted. With that.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: We've got to trust it to AI. That's why we're
• 2:19:48
  making it, Bob.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 2: This is getting scary.
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: It is getting scary.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: But it's not science fiction anymore.
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 2: No, it's not. I mean, we're making fun of it now.
• 2:19:59
  But no, this is dangerous stuff. And I'm sorry for
• 2:20:05
  the people who think this is all a joke. It's not.
• 2:20:07
  This is real. And I'm really not sure we should
• 2:20:11
  be trusted with this. That's maybe why for 40 years
• 2:20:14
  or 60 years, People have agreed to keep it quiet.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 4: I would agree.
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the most logical conclusion.
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous stuff. And, again, it's world-dominating technology.
• 2:20:28
  And I don't know what to do with it other
• 2:20:31
  than to keep it from people.
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 3: And how do we know if it comes out? Something
• 2:20:38
  I always struggle with is let's say we do get
• 2:20:43
  some type of thing saying, all right, we have to
• 2:20:47
  see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever,
• 2:20:49
  that says, okay, here we are, we have this. Well,
• 2:20:53
  first of all, we have to validate it. The journalists,
• 2:20:56
  the whole world, the media is not going to just
• 2:20:58
  trust somebody saying that. They're going to go, okay, wait
• 2:21:01
  a minute, what are you talking about? So it's not
• 2:21:03
  like because somebody says it, we just have to swallow it.
• 2:21:06
  It's like, all right, go, show us. And then when
• 2:21:10
  you do that, Well, now you're exposing something else. What
• 2:21:15
  happens when we need to believe it? Like, as people,
• 2:21:21
  what has to happen? For me to believe something that
• 2:21:24
  somebody says, there really has to be something serious that
• 2:21:28
  makes me believe it. You know what I mean? Like,
• 2:21:31
  if a president or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is,
• 2:21:34
  says something to me, I'll still go like, okay. I mean,
• 2:21:37
  show me. And then when they show it, How do
• 2:21:41
  I know that's actually that? Think about that.
• 2:21:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 3: And then from there, we now have to go to
• 2:21:49
  another level of, OK, well, if we have to prove it,
• 2:21:52
  we have to bring in scientific community. OK, that means
• 2:21:56
  they have access to it. What's the security parameters there?
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 4: Right. And then you get compartmentalization. Right.
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: And then that stops any sort of an understanding.
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 1: And that's why you have this stigma, this stagnation of
• 2:22:11
  where you've got these people working on this thing for
• 2:22:13
  decades and not making any progress.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 2: Because you know how far we could have gotten if
• 2:22:17
  there was free discussion between all the groups working on this? Right.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 1: But then you also have these fucking psychos like from Dr.
• 2:22:25
  Strangelove that want to turn it into a nuclear delivery system.
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: So you don't have to worry about them detecting nuclear
• 2:22:33
  bombs headed their way. You just instantaneously devastate Moscow in
• 2:22:37
  one shot. You don't even have to take credit for it.
• 2:22:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we– Right.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: No, it's like we are not ready.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: I know we're not ready, but we'd be more advanced
• 2:22:50
  if we did that. No, I mean I agree with that.
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 1: But– It's all very strange and no one knows more
• 2:22:58
  strange than you.
• 2:23:01
  Speaker 2: No, there are plenty of people that know more strains
• 2:23:03
  than me. I mean, Dennis knew more strains than me.
• 2:23:06
  Anybody above him knew that. I just knew a small
• 2:23:10
  part of it.
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: But you, out of all the people that can talk
• 2:23:13
  about it, that are out there communicating about it, you
• 2:23:16
  have actually seen it physically.
• 2:23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I try to only talk about what I've seen
• 2:23:22
  and touched and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff
• 2:23:25
  that I don't know if it's true or not. And
• 2:23:27
  there's no sense in repeating that. Because nonsense moves at
• 2:23:31
  the speed of light these days.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:23:33
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 2: And that's just– it's terrible.
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 1: You live in a weird existence, Bob.
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 4: You really do.
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: Because you've been holding on to this and you have
• 2:23:43
  this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a
• 2:23:49
  part of folklore. It's become part of the zeitgeist. Like
• 2:23:54
  this is why your podcast that we did is the
• 2:23:56
  most watched podcast I've ever done. This resonates with people
• 2:24:00
  in a way that– look, I've done a lot of
• 2:24:02
  UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on. I've had a
• 2:24:04
  lot of people that have stories. They're all very interesting.
• 2:24:07
  They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does.
• 2:24:10
  And I think it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely
• 2:24:13
  credible in the fact that you are very skeptical. You're
• 2:24:16
  not interested in like these fantastic ideas. You're very dismissive
• 2:24:20
  of nonsense. But yet you have this burden. Like you
• 2:24:25
  actually– physically touched these fucking things and went inside. Yeah,
• 2:24:29
  I did.
• 2:24:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was fortunate enough to have this really
• 2:24:32
  unique job. That's about it. And I am fascinated with
• 2:24:36
  the technology. But that's where it stops. I'm not interested
• 2:24:41
  in anybody else's story, although everybody has to email me. And,
• 2:24:46
  you know, I understand it, you know, that they're looking
• 2:24:49
  for somebody. Hey, I saw this thing out when I
• 2:24:51
  was on my boat. And, you know, what is it?
• 2:24:54
  I don't know. You know, I mean, they're just looking
• 2:24:58
  for something. And it's like, I don't know, maybe it
• 2:25:00
  was Venus or something. Right. Oh, my God, you suck.
• 2:25:04
  You know, you work for the government. It's like, dude,
• 2:25:07
  I'm just looking for a prosaic explanation.
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:25:10
  Speaker 2: And, you know, but I only know what I saw
• 2:25:14
  and I touched for myself and everything else, even in
• 2:25:18
  official government documentation. It's just words on paper. I don't
• 2:25:22
  know if that stuff is true. So you've got to
• 2:25:24
  draw the line there.
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 2: But, you know, I know what I did see, I
• 2:25:30
  know for a fact, and there is no way you
• 2:25:35
  can tell me that that's not real.
• 2:25:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, I have to say, in having worked with
• 2:25:44
  him and having... You know, inadvertently, there's no way that
• 2:25:48
  myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper.
• 2:25:52
  Maybe there's a problem. Maybe there's going to be a gap.
• 2:25:54
  Maybe we'll find something wrong with the story. Because we
• 2:25:58
  went very deep. We had to build S4. We had
• 2:26:01
  to build a sport model. And there were things that
• 2:26:05
  happened over the years, things that he had said to
• 2:26:08
  us before we had built it, that there's no way
• 2:26:12
  he could have known better. Because there were physicalities, real
• 2:26:16
  things that we built. When you build something in a
• 2:26:19
  3D environment, you're actually building a real world. It's got
• 2:26:23
  light bounce and refractions like the real world. Like when
• 2:26:26
  you turn on the light, it does the same thing.
• 2:26:28
  If a material has a sheen, you see it. It's
• 2:26:31
  literally the same thing. It's just computing power that gives
• 2:26:34
  you access to another world. And he mentioned things that
• 2:26:38
  were absolutely impossible to know.
• 2:26:40
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 2:26:42
  Speaker 3: One of the things that got– two things really convinced me.
• 2:26:48
  One of them was in the interior of the craft.
• 2:26:51
  You had said to us it was very dark in there.
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 2: And while Bob.
• 2:26:56
  Speaker 3: Is explaining to us this interior of the craft, and
• 2:27:00
  many times he kept repeating it was really dark in there.
• 2:27:02
  Speaker 2: Even though there were halogen lights in there.
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 3: And so at a certain point he says, as I'm
• 2:27:06
  crawling in, there's like these extension cords. And I remember going,
• 2:27:09
  extension cords? Like it hadn't– computed. And he's like, yeah,
• 2:27:14
  they had lights in there. And I'm thinking it's true.
• 2:27:17
  I mean, there's no light switch inside this big thing.
• 2:27:20
  It's 50, 52 feet. It's big. And so he said, yeah,
• 2:27:24
  there were two big industrial yellow industrial lights with four
• 2:27:29
  spots each pointed up. And so we decided to make those.
• 2:27:33
  We decided to research the type that were used back
• 2:27:36
  then in the United States, especially on military bases, the
• 2:27:39
  halogen power because it was halogen in 1988. And we
• 2:27:42
  turned them on.
• 2:27:43
  Speaker 2: And it was still dark.
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 3: And it was super dark. And I remember Christopher Matteau,
• 2:27:49
  by the way, a big shout out to Christopher Matteau
• 2:27:51
  that's on my team who made a lot of those visuals.
• 2:27:53
  And he's like a magician. He's the best. He's there.
• 2:27:57
  And I said, Chris, turn on the lights because we
• 2:28:00
  have to film in the craft. And he's like, they're on.
• 2:28:02
  I said, they're not fucking on. I can't see anything.
• 2:28:06
  He's like, they're fully on. And I said, well, that
• 2:28:09
  doesn't make any sense. It's so dark in there. I
• 2:28:12
  remember thinking, shit, that's what light. And so we upped
• 2:28:16
  the power of the light so that you could see more.
• 2:28:20
  And it was still dark. And I thought, what the
• 2:28:23
  hell is happening? I go, is there a bug in there?
• 2:28:24
  Is there something wrong? He goes, no, I don't know.
• 2:28:27
  It's absorbing the light in there. We had to up
• 2:28:31
  the light intensity on those tripods by 20-fold in order
• 2:28:37
  for you to see the visuals you see in our film. Otherwise,
• 2:28:41
  it would be really dark in that craft.
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: So how did you compute that? Like what parameters did
• 2:28:47
  you establish?
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 3: So what you do is you're inside a 3D environment.
• 2:28:52
  You're an actual– You're in a 3D world. Now we're
• 2:28:55
  inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter. We
• 2:29:00
  bring a camera in there. So we were filming. The
• 2:29:03
  whole film was done with Blackmagic 6K cams. So we
• 2:29:07
  would bring our Blackmagics in the 3D environment. You can
• 2:29:10
  actually set that so that we could film inside the craft.
• 2:29:14
  So it matches the filming of our real cameras. And
• 2:29:18
  so as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens.
• 2:29:21
  It's the same aperture. Everything is as you would have it.
• 2:29:25
  And so you're trying to adjust for this dark room.
• 2:29:28
  But if the room is really dark, you can't really
• 2:29:32
  get a good look at it because if you go
• 2:29:34
  close enough, you would have seen like a seat and
• 2:29:37
  a little bit of the reactor. But you would have
• 2:29:39
  been like, what's the black screen I'm looking at?
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: So what is the explanation for why it's so dark?
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 2: It's just the way the light reflects.
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 3: And that is exactly.
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 3: It's when you're in that space. Right.
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: But here's the question. Like, what are you when you're
• 2:29:51
  making this in a computer model?
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:29:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 1: What are you putting in that would make it absorb
• 2:29:58
  light that way?
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 3: I didn't do that. So what we did is we
• 2:30:02
  spent over a year with Bob. I'm not kidding. It
• 2:30:06
  was like a year of trying to figure out the
• 2:30:09
  material of the craft, the actual skin of the craft.
• 2:30:13
  That was the hardest thing to do.
• 2:30:14
  Speaker 2: The specularity and the reflectivity of the actual material. When
• 2:30:17
  you see this. And the angle.
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: And then when the lights are in there, they just
• 2:30:22
  reflect at a weird angle. And it never gets bright
• 2:30:25
  in there unless you have tremendous amounts of light in there.
• 2:30:29
  It's always dark.
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 3: And sorry to interrupt, but that would have been. So
• 2:30:35
  when that happened and we have the right material, which
• 2:30:37
  is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel material.
• 2:30:41
  It's got a little bit of usage to it just
• 2:30:43
  to give it some texture. It's got the same sheen, reflection,
• 2:30:48
  refractions of a real material like that because every time
• 2:30:51
  we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting
• 2:30:53
  like that. And now you turn these big halogen lights on,
• 2:30:57
  and it's like the part of where the halogen is
• 2:31:00
  hitting the ceiling of the craft because they were turned upwards. Remember,
• 2:31:04
  Bob said they were not pointed like this. They were
• 2:31:06
  pointed to the ceiling of the craft. So you got
• 2:31:08
  two of them. It's like wherever the light was going
• 2:31:12
  was getting eaten up by that portion of the material.
• 2:31:16
  So it's not reflecting all the way. So you have
• 2:31:19
  a 52-foot distance, and it's being lost in a maybe 7,
• 2:31:25
  8-foot diameter environment, area where the light is. And we're like,
• 2:31:30
  why is that happening? But that's how it– that's the reality.
• 2:31:35
  He could not have known that. If he's trying to
• 2:31:39
  make that up, anybody who's inventing a story says there's
• 2:31:45
  two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there.
• 2:31:52
  A liar would not say it was really dark in there.
• 2:31:56
  Speaker 1: You don't know that.
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 3: You have to build it.
• 2:31:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 3: So to me, that was a physicality of being inside
• 2:32:03
  the craft that made me go, Lazar could not have
• 2:32:06
  known that.
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 1: If he was making that up, you wouldn't know it
• 2:32:09
  until you experiment.
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, unless Bob back then decided to go in,
• 2:32:16
  in his garage, build himself a fake dome, which I
• 2:32:20
  don't think you did. I'm like, how would he have
• 2:32:23
  known that? We didn't expect that. We were, we were
• 2:32:26
  struggling with why is it so dark?
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 1: And then you make films. So you're used to using lighting. Exactly.
• 2:32:31
  Speaker 3: And, and Chris was like, dude, this thing is just
• 2:32:34
  eating up the light. And I'm like, Bob kept saying
• 2:32:37
  it's so dark in there. And it just– how do
• 2:32:42
  you– how is that possible?
• 2:32:44
  Speaker 1: What were the other things?
• 2:32:45
  Speaker 3: The other one– I laugh about this with Bob all
• 2:32:48
  the time. It's about the flag on the craft. You
• 2:32:51
  could have seen it.
• 2:32:52
  Speaker 2: I don't remember.
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 3: So when he walked into the hangar the very first time, he.
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 2: Saw– The very first time– The backwards flag.
• 2:33:00
  Speaker 3: He saw the craft and he saw the American– a
• 2:33:03
  reversed American flag sticker on the craft.
• 2:33:06
  Speaker 4: I wonder why it was reversed.
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 3: I'll get to that in a sec. I think I know.
• 2:33:10
  But whatever. I'll say what I think. And there's a
• 2:33:15
  lot of stuff. I researched a lot of stuff on
• 2:33:17
  Bob Lazar before I did this and there's a lot
• 2:33:19
  of bad information out there. So I really– I really
• 2:33:23
  tell people, if you really want to see what he saw,
• 2:33:25
  don't go read what's out there. Check this out because
• 2:33:27
  Bob actually vetted everything. So it's not the wrong information
• 2:33:31
  to read. But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying
• 2:33:34
  there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag. If
• 2:33:37
  the craft was that size and it was on the hull,
• 2:33:40
  on the craft shell, there's no way the angle, he's
• 2:33:43
  five something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.
• 2:33:45
  So we built it. We built a 52 foot diameter craft.
• 2:33:49
  We put it in the hangar. It's there. And my team, Chris,
• 2:33:53
  gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on.
• 2:33:56
  And it was the very first time I go in there.
• 2:33:59
  And I know the craft is there. So I put
• 2:34:01
  them on. And now they're hoping, because they're there with notes,
• 2:34:06
  they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes. Oh, no,
• 2:34:08
  that's not good. That's not good. And the first thing
• 2:34:11
  I did is I looked to my right. I'm looking
• 2:34:13
  at the craft. And I'm. I asked Chris to put
• 2:34:17
  me at five foot 10, which is your height. So
• 2:34:19
  I said at five, 10, I'm Bob's height with the goggles.
• 2:34:22
  I want to see. And the first thing I said is, oh,
• 2:34:25
  it's it, there it is. And they're like, there, what is,
• 2:34:30
  I said the flag. And they thought I was pointing
• 2:34:32
  at a flag on a wall. And they're like, there's
• 2:34:35
  no flag in the hanger. I said, no, on the craft.
• 2:34:38
  And they're like, yeah. I said, you can clearly see it.
• 2:34:43
  It was clear. That was something that also made me go, yeah,
• 2:34:47
  this is it. This is the real size. So had
• 2:34:51
  Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the
• 2:34:56
  detractors out there kept saying there's no way at that
• 2:34:59
  angle a human eye could see a sticker on the
• 2:35:02
  top of the craft, which is on the top shell.
• 2:35:06
  But you can. It's as clear as day. So those
• 2:35:10
  were two things that I considered to be like– But
• 2:35:15
  it's there. So I know to maybe some people that's
• 2:35:19
  not a lot. But as a person like I am,
• 2:35:22
  who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult. It took
• 2:35:26
  a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist
• 2:35:29
  and I wanted to make sure it was accurate to
• 2:35:31
  what he saw. I look at stuff like that because
• 2:35:36
  I analyze everything like that. And I analyzed his story
• 2:35:41
  inside out.
• 2:35:41
  Speaker 1: And if you couldn't see the flag from that position.
• 2:35:44
  Speaker 3: It would be a red flag. Yeah, that would have
• 2:35:46
  been a red flag for me. I would have been like, wait,
• 2:35:48
  you can't see it. But you can. So you can't
• 2:35:52
  put enough of a value on little details like that
• 2:35:57
  because he didn't say this in 2026. He said this
• 2:36:00
  in 1989. Right.
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: Why do you think the flag was reversed?
• 2:36:07
  Speaker 3: In American flag use law, the only thing we were
• 2:36:13
  able to ascertain is the fact that on military or
• 2:36:17
  on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you
• 2:36:21
  see an American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed
• 2:36:25
  because it's how the wind is blowing the flag. On
• 2:36:28
  your left side, it's like the flag is because the
• 2:36:31
  wind is blowing this way. If you look at vehicles,
• 2:36:34
  let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on
• 2:36:37
  each side, and they have a normal one on the
• 2:36:41
  left side and a reversed on the right side because
• 2:36:44
  it's the right side of the vehicle.
• 2:36:46
  Speaker 2: So it's blowing the flag.
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 3: Because the wind is blowing the flag that way. So
• 2:36:50
  the reversed American flag is the law of how to
• 2:36:57
  use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles.
• 2:37:01
  And it has to be like that on the right side.
• 2:37:04
  So to say, is that the right side of the craft?
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it must be.
• 2:37:10
  Speaker 3: It must be because if you go into the craft,
• 2:37:13
  the seats, when you go into the craft, I can't
• 2:37:16
  wait for you to go in the craft. When you
• 2:37:19
  go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning
• 2:37:24
  the hatch is the right side of the craft. It's
• 2:37:27
  the only thing that came to mind. I mean, is
• 2:37:30
  that what they did at S4? They fucking put a
• 2:37:34
  sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing
• 2:37:37
  we could think of is that's why it was there.
• 2:37:41
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 2:37:43
  Speaker 2: Know.
• 2:37:45
  Speaker 3: Because if it was an American flat, if it was
• 2:37:48
  just for identifying things, this is America, why would you
• 2:37:52
  reverse it?
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:37:54
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 2:37:55
  Speaker 1: You're reversing it because it's indicating the direction in which
• 2:37:58
  it travels. Exactly. Wow.
• 2:38:02
  Speaker 3: That's just an interesting... Yeah.
• 2:38:03
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: It's all interesting. The goggles is a trip.
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 1: When I put on the 3D AR goggles, VR goggles rather,
• 2:38:13
  and you stand in that warehouse.
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 4: That hanger.
• 2:38:17
  Speaker 3: The hanger. And look at it.
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 4: It's very strange.
• 2:38:19
  Speaker 3: It feels weird.
• 2:38:19
  Speaker 2: That's exactly like it was.
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 4: It feels very weird.
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 1: It feels very weird. Because, I mean, I'm only imagining
• 2:38:25
  what it's like to actually be you in 1988 and
• 2:38:29
  be standing there.
• 2:38:30
  Speaker 2: When you put the goggles on, that's exactly how it was.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 1: What did Dennis say when you first saw it?
• 2:38:35
  Speaker 4: Was he like, huh?
• 2:38:37
  Speaker 2: No. Dennis was hardcore.
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:38:40
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 2:38:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 2: He was here. Look at that. You know, come back
• 2:38:44
  in here. I mean, it. There was no reaction. Barry,
• 2:38:48
  on the other hand, was out of his mind. He
• 2:38:50
  couldn't wait to show me stuff. And, you know, he said,
• 2:38:53
  check this out.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 2:38:54
  Speaker 2: It was that awesome. You know, but Dennis was it
• 2:38:58
  was like a hardcore, you know, military guy.
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: How much of a view did you get of the
• 2:39:05
  other crafts? Because it's one of the things in the
• 2:39:08
  film you only see like hints of them.
• 2:39:10
  Speaker 2: That was it.
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 2: That's it. What you saw in the film is exactly
• 2:39:13
  what it was. It was just a passing thing. And
• 2:39:16
  as I was walking out there going, wow, there's more.
• 2:39:21
  Everything looks different. And other than the first two hangars,
• 2:39:26
  I really couldn't tell what was passed out there. But
• 2:39:29
  there were other hangars and there were things inside them.
• 2:39:32
  Speaker 1: It's also interesting that at the time in 1988, this
• 2:39:36
  site was not even confirmed. This was like for you
• 2:39:40
  to have to know about this and know the exact
• 2:39:42
  location of it is kind of strange.
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:39:44
  Speaker 2: Now, Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the
• 2:39:47
  general idea. I said, you know, I know what time
• 2:39:52
  I got out there and I could see Papoose Lake
• 2:39:54
  and behind me. He pulled up a lot of stuff
• 2:39:57
  from there. But another interesting thing he pulled up was
• 2:40:02
  there was an old silver mine exactly there in the
• 2:40:06
  exact same place. And I wonder if they used that
• 2:40:10
  as it was already drilled. There was already, you know,
• 2:40:13
  carters in there.
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 3: I actually held this for this show. What I'm about
• 2:40:19
  to say is the first time ever. It didn't make
• 2:40:21
  it in my film. I wish it did, but it
• 2:40:23
  didn't make it in the film. Veronica on our team,
• 2:40:28
  she's my sister. She's like my right hand. And if
• 2:40:31
  I didn't have her, I wouldn't be here right now.
• 2:40:33
  She found this. And at a certain point, we were
• 2:40:36
  looking at the maps out there and we You'll see
• 2:40:40
  in my film that Gene Huff sent us some U.S.
• 2:40:43
  Department of the Interior official maps of that environment at
• 2:40:47
  the Groom Lake, Papoose Lake. But we weren't satisfied. We
• 2:40:50
  wanted to go deeper. We said there's got to be more.
• 2:40:53
  And there's one map that is a publicly available map.
• 2:41:00
  It's super not easy to find, by the way, that
• 2:41:03
  is in the hands of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
• 2:41:07
  I could get it to you if you want. I
• 2:41:09
  can email it to you. That map is the oldest
• 2:41:12
  map of Papoose Lake known in the hands of the
• 2:41:15
  government that is public domain. That map, and everybody's going
• 2:41:20
  to be listening to this, clearly shows a road that
• 2:41:26
  goes right into where S4 was.
• 2:41:30
  Speaker 4: Is.
• 2:41:31
  Speaker 3: It doesn't show a road near it. It shows a
• 2:41:35
  road going right In the mountain. And they removed it.
• 2:41:40
  That map is from 1941. Okay? Right after that, the
• 2:41:46
  map is 1950 and 1952. And those roads were removed.
• 2:41:52
  But the oldest map we ever found, it's going to
• 2:41:55
  be available. We're going to post it on our website.
• 2:41:58
  It's going to be everywhere. It shows clear as day.
• 2:42:03
  a road that goes right into the mountain, exactly where
• 2:42:06
  Bob Lazar said S4 was.
• 2:42:09
  Speaker 1: So do you think that that was the road to
• 2:42:11
  the silver mine initially?
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 3: I believe that, yeah.
• 2:42:14
  Speaker 2: It makes sense that they would use an existing facility
• 2:42:16
  and just enlarge it instead of start from nothing.
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 1: Right. Of course. Especially if it's abandoned.
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell was
• 2:42:25
  real and if they really did find a crashed UFO
• 2:42:29
  in 1947, like, In the 1950s, they'd be like, let's
• 2:42:33
  get rid of this fucking road.
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah.
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 1: If we're putting this out there, if we're building this
• 2:42:38
  facility out there, and if they did have it, that
• 2:42:41
  also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades.
• 2:42:43
  You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in
• 2:42:46
  the 1950s, and it's still there.
• 2:42:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:42:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:42:50
  Speaker 3: I think what happened is when the CIA took over,
• 2:42:53
  because CIA is the one that took over Area 51.
• 2:42:55
  They're the ones at Area 51. I think what happened
• 2:42:58
  is as they took over, they just removed the roads.
• 2:43:02
  It wasn't even because there was a flying saucer there.
• 2:43:06
  I just think they got in there, took control of
• 2:43:08
  that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off
• 2:43:12
  the maps. Because it's there prior to them taking ownership
• 2:43:16
  of that land. So, I mean, it's clear that there
• 2:43:22
  was a road there. And then they came in, CIA said,
• 2:43:25
  take it out. And S4 might have had already an installation.
• 2:43:29
  It wasn't an installation, but they probably had it. tunnel
• 2:43:32
  in there already because they were it was a mine
• 2:43:35
  so it was an easier way to build a big
• 2:43:37
  facility in the in the side of the hill makes sense.
• 2:43:40
  Speaker 1: It does make sense and then there's also the images
• 2:43:42
  that you got of what looks like the hangar bay
• 2:43:45
  doors right that are camouflaged.
• 2:43:47
  Speaker 3: And i have to say that gotta go again yeah
• 2:43:50
  all right sorry no worries that's all good that prostate.
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 1: Problem technology will fix that yeah It'll remove your prostate,
• 2:44:01
  turn you into a fucking alien. So that image that
• 2:44:06
  you got of the– unfortunately, it's kind of blurry. But
• 2:44:10
  you do see something that looks very similar to what
• 2:44:15
  you'd expect to be camouflaged garage bay doors.
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 3: I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell. And
• 2:44:22
  I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe, everybody involved. Everybody
• 2:44:26
  was trying to get in and getting to make me
• 2:44:28
  work with them or use something they found. So I
• 2:44:31
  was ignoring 95, 99% of people's like, it's getting tiring.
• 2:44:36
  Everybody's like, you got to listen to me. I know
• 2:44:38
  stuff about that. And I'm like, whatever. I'm working with
• 2:44:40
  Bob Lazar. I have enough right now. But this guy,
• 2:44:44
  we had built the base and I knew exactly where
• 2:44:47
  it was. I knew exactly the layout. And this guy,
• 2:44:50
  he not only contacted me, but he sent me an
• 2:44:53
  image that he had That he had drawn. He didn't
• 2:44:56
  want to send me what he had found. But he says,
• 2:44:58
  here it is. This is where the doors are. And
• 2:45:00
  this is exactly where they point to. I looked at
• 2:45:04
  the image and I said, not bad. I mean, he
• 2:45:07
  really nailed it in the image. And I thought, okay.
• 2:45:11
  At first I thought somebody on my team leaked something
• 2:45:15
  we had. To be honest, I'm like, who did that?
• 2:45:18
  Who sent out one of our renders to somebody? Because
• 2:45:21
  that's what I thought. And they're like, no, no, no.
• 2:45:23
  This is what? So I talked to this guy, and
• 2:45:29
  he's really, really good at researching, and he ended up
• 2:45:33
  becoming probably one of the best I've ever– like he's
• 2:45:37
  one of the best I've ever seen. His name is
• 2:45:38
  Scott Mitchell. And he says there are pictures that were
• 2:45:42
  taken in 2020. Ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020,
• 2:45:47
  which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which
• 2:45:51
  means the base might have been shut down. If you
• 2:45:54
  think about that, you know what I mean? Like it's COVID.
• 2:45:57
  It's like in the heat of it. Plus it's 20,
• 2:45:59
  it's the 25th of December. So there's probably nothing going
• 2:46:02
  on there. And this private pilot in a small Cessna
• 2:46:08
  requested access inside the perimeter and they granted him permission.
• 2:46:13
  And he had a big Nikon camera on board with
• 2:46:15
  a big telescopic zoom. And he took a shit ton
• 2:46:19
  of pictures and they're amazing. They're all public. They're all available.
• 2:46:22
  You could download them. And, There's these pictures of Papoose
• 2:46:26
  Lake and the hill. They were being used on the
• 2:46:29
  internet for a long time. Everybody was like, see, Bob
• 2:46:31
  Lazar is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there. Well,
• 2:46:35
  of course you can't see it. It's, first of all,
• 2:46:38
  17 miles away. And secondly, they're not designed for you
• 2:46:41
  to see it. And that also, let's talk about something
• 2:46:45
  that Bob was talking about in 1988. The picture was
• 2:46:47
  taken in 2020. I mean, there could be, that could
• 2:46:51
  be a different landscape now. Anyway, so... He said, look,
• 2:46:56
  this image, if you change the contrast, you got to
• 2:46:59
  keep the original, but just move and try to extract
• 2:47:03
  data from your image. Anybody who knows how to do
• 2:47:06
  that with photography, you can do that. And he pulls
• 2:47:10
  out these geometric shapes. You could see them. They're like little,
• 2:47:16
  they look like rectangles. And I thought, what if this
• 2:47:21
  is not real? I was super skeptical. I'll be honest
• 2:47:25
  with you. We're talking about the picture with the doors
• 2:47:28
  on the hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the
• 2:47:31
  one that we have in the film.
• 2:47:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, right, right.
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 3: And so I didn't believe it. I thought, there's no way.
• 2:47:38
  I go, there's no way this is real. I don't
• 2:47:40
  believe it. So Scott was really cool. He said, look, man,
• 2:47:43
  I understand you're a skeptic. I get it. I want
• 2:47:46
  you to do me a favor. Go online. Search it yourself.
• 2:47:51
  I won't even tell you where it is. I'll just
• 2:47:53
  tell you who took the pictures. The only thing he
• 2:47:57
  gave us is the picture number is 0501. That's what
• 2:48:01
  the picture number is. He goes, if you find it,
• 2:48:04
  have whoever on your team play around with it until
• 2:48:06
  you see it. That was fair because I said, okay, because,
• 2:48:09
  I mean, if it's out there, there's two different places
• 2:48:13
  it was online, and the one place we got it
• 2:48:16
  from was the source of it, okay, was from the photographer,
• 2:48:22
  the guy himself. We take it. I had three different
• 2:48:26
  people on my team. Everybody's really good at all this
• 2:48:29
  stuff on my team. So I said, guys, this is
• 2:48:32
  what we need to see. If you guys could pull
• 2:48:34
  it up. I I'm, I'm, I'm not going to be
• 2:48:37
  a skeptical. Everybody got it almost in the same time
• 2:48:40
  they were playing around. And eventually the, the easiest software
• 2:48:44
  we used to get that detail out was DaVinci resolve.
• 2:48:48
  And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're
• 2:48:51
  messing around with Photoshop or whatever. And it came and
• 2:48:55
  I was like, Oh my God, it it's, it's really there.
• 2:48:59
  You could clear. So what I did is I had
• 2:49:01
  them scan the rest of the picture and because it's pixels, right?
• 2:49:05
  So I said, let's also see if it's not some
• 2:49:09
  pixel pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does?
• 2:49:13
  Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there.
• 2:49:15
  Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere and it doesn't.
• 2:49:19
  And then I said, all right, go get me 0502.
• 2:49:21
  I want 0500. I want, because like I kept snapping pictures.
• 2:49:25
  I want you to do the same. Like we went
• 2:49:28
  really military. Like I said, I want to make sure
• 2:49:30
  This is this is real. I don't I'm not going
• 2:49:32
  to put our name on this if it's not. And
• 2:49:35
  it ended up being other pictures also show it, by
• 2:49:38
  the way, because he went click, click, click. So it's
• 2:49:40
  like it's not just that one. That's the clearest one.
• 2:49:44
  And so I was at a certain point. I go
• 2:49:47
  to Bob's house and I'm sitting there and the guy
• 2:49:51
  calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me and he has no
• 2:49:54
  idea I'm with Bob Lazar. So I pick up. It's
• 2:49:57
  a video call. And he goes, hey, man, what's going on?
• 2:50:00
  I said, well, look. I said, look who I'm with.
• 2:50:02
  And he just, like, exploded because he was like, oh,
• 2:50:04
  my God, you're with Bob. And I said, show him.
• 2:50:07
  And so Bob was there, and we showed it. We
• 2:50:10
  ended up transferring the call on a Zoom call, and
• 2:50:13
  he showed it. And you said, yeah. Like, I remember
• 2:50:17
  you going, yeah, that's it.
• 2:50:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:50:19
  Speaker 1: What did that look like to you when you saw
• 2:50:20
  those images?
• 2:50:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was awesome.
• 2:50:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:50:23
  Speaker 2: It was awesome. What was really shocking– The first hanger
• 2:50:27
  was bigger.
• 2:50:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:50:29
  Speaker 2: And that's what you described.
• 2:50:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:50:31
  Speaker 2: Because the first hanger is the big hanger and there's
• 2:50:33
  a bunch of smaller ones. And I said, Jesus, the
• 2:50:35
  first hanger is bigger.
• 2:50:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:50:36
  Speaker 2: You found it. You found it. So, I mean, that
• 2:50:40
  was– I just lit up at that point.
• 2:50:44
  Speaker 1: What happens if you look at that site with Google Earth?
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 2: That is with Google Earth.
• 2:50:48
  Speaker 3: No, no, that was the picture, but Google Earth.
• 2:50:50
  Speaker 4: That was from the Cessna.
• 2:50:51
  Speaker 3: But Google Earth, and I'll tell you something about Google Earth.
• 2:50:53
  Speaker 2: That wasn't with Google Earth?
• 2:50:55
  Speaker 3: No, the picture is a real photo. The picture of
• 2:50:58
  the hangar doors is a real photo. Oh, okay, I
• 2:51:00
  thought that was Google Earth. No, no, the picture is
• 2:51:02
  a real photo. The Google Earth, though, you see that
• 2:51:04
  in the film.
• 2:51:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:51:07
  Speaker 3: I can't make this up. I didn't want to put
• 2:51:08
  anything in the film. That was one of my things.
• 2:51:11
  I didn't want to put anything in the film that
• 2:51:13
  would make me, the whole team... or even Bob look
• 2:51:17
  like we're trying to like MacGyver some, something in there.
• 2:51:21
  It has to be, you go look for it yourself.
• 2:51:24
  It's public. If you don't believe it, go check it
• 2:51:27
  out yourself. I, that's how, that's what was, that's the
• 2:51:30
  only thing we allowed in there. And when you go
• 2:51:34
  on Papoose Lake on June 20, so June 22nd of 2024,
• 2:51:38
  June of 2024, Google Earth changed. You're going to be
• 2:51:49
  right over Papoose Lake. If you zoom in, you're not
• 2:51:52
  going to notice it because it's kind of a yellowish
• 2:51:56
  tint to the image. And I remember going, why is
• 2:51:59
  it so yellow? I mean, I'd been there so many times.
• 2:52:02
  I was like, why the fuck it turned so yellow?
• 2:52:05
  And I'm like, so I'm zooming out and I'm like,
• 2:52:08
  why did they fuck it up? I thought they fucking
• 2:52:11
  ruined everything.
• 2:52:11
  Speaker 1: It's all yellow.
• 2:52:13
  Speaker 3: And as I go further, you see this box that
• 2:52:16
  is like right over Papoose. So I'm like, what is that?
• 2:52:22
  And I put my mouse over it. And wherever you're
• 2:52:25
  in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024. And as soon
• 2:52:30
  as you put your mouse outside of the box, well,
• 2:52:33
  it's an older date. And I thought, oh, they just
• 2:52:37
  did that. And so I think what they thought they
• 2:52:41
  were going to do is that new filter right over
• 2:52:45
  Papoose Lake removes every possible detail on the terrain, the landscape,
• 2:52:53
  where the brushes are and the Joshua trees are. It really,
• 2:52:56
  really removes all that.
• 2:52:57
  Speaker 1: It blurs everything.
• 2:52:57
  Speaker 3: It blurs everything out. But it makes, they made a mistake.
• 2:53:01
  They made a huge error. I believe so. And I
• 2:53:04
  think if they're listening, they're going to go, yeah, our
• 2:53:07
  bad to the DOD. Because you see all the tracks
• 2:53:12
  on the lake. For some reason, that filter accentuates the
• 2:53:18
  tracks on Papoose Lake and removes the landscape brushes.
• 2:53:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know why.
• 2:53:24
  Speaker 3: It just did that. And I was like, holy shit,
• 2:53:28
  you see all these tracks.
• 2:53:30
  Speaker 1: What it looks like is they're trying to purposely obscure
• 2:53:32
  the area.
• 2:53:32
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:53:33
  Speaker 1: And the fact that it's in a very clear box.
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 1: And you talked about that in the film.
• 2:53:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:53:38
  Speaker 4: It's kind of bonkers.
• 2:53:40
  Speaker 2: There's really no reason.
• 2:53:41
  Speaker 3: There's no reason.
• 2:53:42
  Speaker 2: To pick one little square box at an hour.
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 2:53:45
  Speaker 2: That nobody goes to, right?
• 2:53:47
  Speaker 4: To try to obscure it.
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And so I thought, geez, we got to put
• 2:53:52
  this in there. I mean, it's so cool, right?
• 2:53:55
  Speaker 1: It's all very compelling. I think we should wrap this up.
• 2:53:59
  But the film's excellent.
• 2:54:01
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 2:54:01
  Speaker 4: Congratulations.
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 1: You could tell it took a tremendous amount of effort and, uh,
• 2:54:05
  I could tell by watching you watch it when we
• 2:54:08
  watched it together, it had an insane impact on you
• 2:54:11
  and you had already seen it before. I saw it
• 2:54:13
  with you. So you're just seeing it again. It's just like,
• 2:54:17
  it's bonkers.
• 2:54:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It, it, it really affected me. And, uh, is,
• 2:54:24
  is there anything else you want to say? There's a
• 2:54:26
  couple of things I want to bring up.
• 2:54:27
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 2:54:28
  Speaker 2: You know, um, Just because I've heard stuff Luigi has
• 2:54:32
  told me. People think that I make millions of dollars
• 2:54:35
  off of this stuff.
• 2:54:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 2:54:38
  Speaker 2: And I don't. I would love to sign on to
• 2:54:41
  the millions of dollars program. You know, Jeremy made his movie,
• 2:54:47
  and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's movie. I said,
• 2:54:50
  anything you make, give to George. You know. Luigi has
• 2:54:55
  spent millions of dollars of his own money, literally, right? Literally.
• 2:55:00
  You know, making this stuff. And I can't see how
• 2:55:03
  he's ever going to make the money back.
• 2:55:05
  Speaker 3: If he does, that's awesome.
• 2:55:06
  Speaker 2: I drive a 1980-something. Not a 1980. You drive a 2000... No,
• 2:55:17
  a 2018 Chevy Bolt electric car. I mean, it's a
• 2:55:20
  car you'd buy for your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing to drive.
• 2:55:25
  It cost me $ 18, 000. You know, my house on the
• 2:55:29
  10 acres costs $ 450, 000. And, you know, back when I
• 2:55:34
  got it, I mean, I work six to seven days
• 2:55:38
  a week at United Nuclear, my business. I mean, if
• 2:55:41
  there's Anyone that wants to give me millions of dollars,
• 2:55:45
  please contact me immediately because I would like to retire.
• 2:55:49
  But no, I don't make millions of dollars off this stuff.
• 2:55:53
  And my wife and I do fine. We grow our
• 2:55:58
  food in our greenhouse, and we live in our little
• 2:56:01
  place up in the mountains, and that's it. But this
• 2:56:06
  is Luigi's thing. That's why he's here.
• 2:56:08
  Speaker 1: I think the film is going to be very successful,
• 2:56:10
  and I think you're probably going to make.
• 2:56:11
  Speaker 4: Money off of it. At least I'm hoping.
• 2:56:13
  Speaker 1: No, he'll make money off of it.
• 2:56:15
  Speaker 2: Well, you'll make money off of it.
• 2:56:17
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe.
• 2:56:19
  Speaker 1: I think we should wrap it up. Thank you very much, Luigi.
• 2:56:22
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe.
• 2:56:22
  Speaker 2: It's fantastic.
• 2:56:22
  Speaker 3: Bob.
• 2:56:25
  Speaker 1: Great to see you again, as always.
• 2:56:26
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry I had to pee so much. That's okay.
• 2:56:31
  Speaker 1: It's understandable. It's understandable. And, again, the film. Let's show
• 2:56:36
  it on the screen, Jamie, so people can know where
• 2:56:39
  they can see it, when it's available.
• 2:56:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's available, actually, as of right now.
• 2:56:45
  Speaker 1: Let's play the trailer. We'll end it.
• 2:56:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do that.
• 2:56:48
  Speaker 1: S4, The Bob Lazar Story. We'll end it with a trailer.
• 2:56:53
  Speaker 2: It's on Amazon and wearenotalone.com. Physical evidence now exists, which
• 2:57:17
  proves that there is life elsewhere, and at least one
• 2:57:19
  form of that life has been here. As of 1989,
• 2:57:25
  that evidence was in the custody of the United States government.
• 2:57:30
  Between December of 1988 and April of 1989, I worked
• 2:57:34
  as a senior staff physicist in what has to be
• 2:57:36
  the most secret project in history. My job in this
• 2:57:41
  program was to be part of a back engineering team.
• 2:57:46
  This particular disc appeared to be in excellent condition, and
• 2:57:49
  because of its sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the sport model.
• 2:57:55
  The goal in this program was to see if the
• 2:57:57
  technology of the disc could be duplicated with earth materials.
• 2:58:02
  To start up the reactor, of course, we need some
• 2:58:04
  element 115. In fact, you need 223 grams machined into
• 2:58:10
  a wedge like this. The program out at S4 consisted
• 2:58:14
  of three projects, Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, and Project Looking Glass.
• 2:58:20
  The file on top was Project Galileo, and as it
• 2:58:24
  turned out, that's the project that I was part of.
• 2:58:27
  And that clearly referred to reverse engineering a recovered alien spacecraft.
• 2:58:38
  just cannot be a secret from anyone, not just the
• 2:58:41
  American people, but the rest of the world.
• 2:58:48
  Speaker 4: All this stuff is something that happened to him.
• 2:58:50
  Speaker 1: It's not who he is.
• 2:58:51
  Speaker 7: They're doing everything they can to keep this information secret.
• 2:59:03
  Speaker 1: That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft to do that,
• 2:59:06
  thanks to him.
• 2:59:09
  Speaker 4: Now this story spills.
• 2:59:10
  Speaker 2: And the world changes.
• 2:59:12
  Speaker 1: Bye for now.