Latest / Scouting the League / Army-Navy - Football and more w/ guest Danny Payne

Transcript

Army-Navy - Football and more w/ guest Danny Payne · Scouting the League

• Rodrik David: From starting a football program at Kennesaw to joining one of the oldest programs in the country at West Point, Danny Payne has been a part of it. From coaching to recruiting, analytics, and game management, there is no part of the game he has not touched. Today, Danny joins Neil and I to talk his journey, working his way through college football and being on both sides of arguably the best rivalry in all of sport. Here on Scouting the League. But before we jump in, let me remind you to go like, subscribe, share this podcast wherever you are listening and watching. Whether it's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or that video portion, hopefully tuning in, looking at us as well over on YouTube. Hit those buttons, give us the comments that subscribe and that share really help us out. Check out every Wednesday episode as well as the draft profiles that I put out Monday and Tuesday, conversations and insight into all things scouting. I am Roderick Davis. At right stepadv is where you can find me on Twitter. Rsafootball.com is my website. Make sure you give me follows there. If you're a scout or aspiring scout, make sure you check out what I am doing over at thescoutingcommunity.com. Resources for those that want to be scouts and already scouts, where perhaps their franchises, organizations not quite meeting the bar. So go check it out at thescoutingcommunity.com. Neil Stratton joins me today, as always, on Wednesday as the co-host. He is at Inside the League on Twitter. InsideTheLeague.com is his website. Make sure you go ahead, give him a follow, and get signed up for that Friday rap as well. While you're there, make sure you go check out our partners over at blue maca.com for the insole. So we'll upgrade every pair of shoes you have, whether it's that comfort insole, recovery, non-slip. Or maybe that carbon fiber for that turf toe Blue Maka has you covered. Use code SIAUDING20 at checkout to let them know we sent you. Get a little discount on that order. That is blue maka.com. The insoles that you need to have in every pair of your shoes. Well, let's get into it today with Danny Payne. And I am going to do my best to battle two Navy midshipmen, you know, try to, you know, bring a different perspective. But again, two great guys from, you know, that have that Navy background. Danny, a little bit of Army background as well. We'll get into all that. Danny, welcome to Scouting the League. Danny Payne: Yeah, I appreciate this opportunity to talk to both of y'all. Rodrik David: Yeah, it's it's been, you know, fun to, you know, anytime we get two Navy guys on here. It's happened a couple of times, Neil. I don't know why you keep lining them up, but you and your Navy guys, you know, they're it it's a football, you know, haven people, isn't it? Neil Stratton: Have anybody. There's a lot of us out there. We're just we're just trying to kind of band together and get the word out. I mean, and and and for what it's worth, I've forgiven the fact that he he's a former army guy. I mean, he finished in the right place, right? And that's where he is now. And so not nothing else matters. Danny Payne: That's right. Rodrik David: Yeah. It's he's he's again, your allegiances Danny Payne: That's right. Rodrik David: are always where you are currently. We'll we'll certainly talk about that. Well, let's get into the background though though, Danny, 'cause again, you've been at Army, you're at Navy now, I believe six years. You've got stops at Georgia Southern, at at Kennesaw State as well. But again, even before that, talk about your origin story, getting into football. The world that we live in, it's a different one. Again, even during vacation, as we were talking, you're still doing some football work. Talk about getting into football and kind of your origin story. Danny Payne: Yeah, I appreciate it. so my origin story didn't play college football. just loved it, loved recruiting more than anything. Would always, you know, when there was one national signing day, was locked into the message boards and to Twitter to see where these guys were signing. so I I just went to Kennesaw State as a regular student, sport management major, and I got very lucky. My senior year, I needed an internship. And they announced that they were starting a football program. and so I just I walked, I worked for the athletic department just as an operations person, student assistant, and one day clocking out, walked into the head coach's office, Brian Bohannan, and said, Coach, I want to work for you. and them being a brand new program needed a lot of help, wherever it may be. And so, you know. was able to get an internship which helped me out for class credit, doing anything from going through the mail to just everything that the coaches, the small staff at the time needed. And once my internship was up, I just fell in love with it. The way those that Coach Bohannan and all those early coaches treated me, I I just loved the industry and knew this is what I wanted to do and ended up staying on for about a year unpaid. And then became a GA, became a GA on defense with Coach Newberry. He was the defensive coordinator. Coach Bowen, like you talked about earlier, Roderick. Coach Klein, who's at Georgia Tech now. So a lot of those guys truly helped me out in this industry. And it's like it it's a cliche, but it's it's about who knows you, who's willing to step on the table for you. and so those guys helped me out to to be able to get my first full-time job up at up at West Point. Neil Stratton: Wow. Danny Payne: where I worked for for four years in the recruiting department there and and you know, I'm not I'm not gonna talk bad about Army. I I enjoyed my time there. I learned a lot. That's right. Neil Stratton: We have nothing but respect for Army, of course. Absolutely. Now let me before you go any further though, Danny, I we gotta back you up some. According to your bio, you founded the club football team at Kennesaw State in two thousand eleven. What was that like? Were you a playing member or were you just the GM and coach or both or neither or what? Danny Payne: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. So the GM title was just a title at that point. So I was the guy that that made sure everybody paid their club dues. made sure we had fields rented, coached the D-line a little bit, but just made sure that we had opponents, referees for the games, ran the concession stand. and it was it was a great opportunity for me. They they didn't have a football program at all. so I was, you know, actually one of my buddies. came up to me, he's like, Hey, I I wanna start this and he kind of brought me along to to be a part of it. And, you know, we we were really able to get a lot of things going there for the club team. And actually, you know, when we started the d N C double A team, a couple of those guys from the club team came out and one made the team initially through tryouts. so it was a great experience being able to start that club team taught me a lot. I I had no idea what I was doing. Just make sure people got their checks, make sure that the the guys paid their dues, had shoulder pads and matching helmets and jerseys. Neil Stratton: That's a BYOP situation, right? Bring your own pads kind of thing. Danny Payne: yeah. yeah. Yeah. And we we had something set up where, you know, I I reached out to Reddell and Shutt and and made sure that, hey, we're gonna be bulk ordering. Hey guys, who who needs a helmet? Who needs shoulder pads? so we were able to buy a lot of that together. collecting on that was a different story. so but it was pay your own way. You know, we we kind of promoted as the first ever football team for Kennesaw State. Which was big and it's it's a great university. You know, I think they're up to thirty thousand, maybe even more now, student body. so we actually had a pretty good crowd come out. and they they had the fields for it, even the fields that they still use today. They they have three turf fields, the stadium grass field, and then a practice grass field. So we had space to operate. and do everything that we needed to do because they yell they also use all those fields for all the other club sports that they had. so it was it was a school that that supported it. We were able to get it done. We were able to organize all of it. but it was it was a great start in the industry for me. Neil Stratton: Mm-hmm. Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah. Well we Neil Stratton: Okay, now and I know you want to wait into your army time and and and going forward, but like before we do, GM of the semi-pro Georgia Panthers as well. Now that is interesting. And it said, according to your army bio, 125 players for a semi-pro team? Wow, how did how did that even how that even happened in? Danny Payne: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So We we had a we had a coach that reached out to me that wanted to be a part of the the club team and we brought him on. He had been a high school coach and he just came up to me one day. He's like, Hey, I I like how you're organizing this. Do you wanna, you know, help me out with my semi pro team? And we I was able to do that as well. that was a little different because you're dealing with, you know, grown men. Not that the club team didn't have grown men, but those are college kids. so it was a little bit more eccentric for the for the Georgia Panthers. But again, it like a great experience, you know, and tryouts and you know, free you know, you like a kid on the other team and hey, come play for this team and pay your dues and hey, let's let's let's suit it up and and get get after it. And that's essentially what it was. It was it was a wild time to be honest with you, but a great experience for me and Neil Stratton: Yeah. Danny Payne: I actually keep in touch with a couple of those guys still. Neil Stratton: Now did y'all play at Kennesaw? Danny Payne: We played we played a game at Kennesaw on the practice fields. we would rent high school stadiums out in the area. Cal High School, Osbourne. I think we went to Pope High School one time. But I mean those stadiums were like, Hey, you wanna rent it? Like, here's the fee. And you collect the fees from the players, you fundraise a little bit with some logos on some shirts and and on social media and Neil Stratton: That's that's the message to everyone who's listening to this. There are no excuses. Danny didn't have a football team to help with or to run and he founded or co-founded two of just 'cause he wanted to work in the game and now here he is. So hats off to you, Danny, just for the just for the the pure initiative and the want to that that you had and that you showed. And that and that has obviously produced results. Danny Payne: Appreciate it. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. And we're we're we're gonna stick with Kennesaw for just a little bit longer because again, you referenced Shane Bowen. Again, I worked with Shane before he got to Kennesaw up at Ohio State. again he was GA there. Now back with the Patriots. He had been the Giants, Giants defensive coordinator, of course, Coach Newberry, who again you're working with and again f for with now. at Kennesaw, you're starting a program, you're practicing, but you're not playing games, which means Danny Payne: Appreciate it. Rodrik David: Man, there's a lot of time to spend with this staff to get to know people with, you know, arguably nothing to show for it. Talk about the the challenges of that. Again, you can only, as everybody that's been on a football team and around a football practice, you can only practice against your own guys so many times before you just want to rip each other's throats out. Like, talk about that what year and a half, two years of man, we're building a program we can only practice and we can't even go show for it. Danny Payne: Yeah. Yeah. So my the first year was recruiting. So we didn't have a team. So that that twenty thirteen class was I mean a lot of buy-in from those kids that had offers. Like we were able to recruit kids with other offers and say, You are going to red shirt next year and you won't play a game until 2015. so Chandler Burks, who's actually at Army now, was the first commit ever in the program's history and know, just being able to recruit that class. And then the next year we kind of took a we we only signed a few high school kids and had to get some some older guys in there. So we went a lot of JUCO. And then that first practice year was wild. I mean, 'cause we had we essentially had three phases. We had one, two, and three, where it was everything led to a scrimmage. And, you know, everybody else in the country's playing and we're practicing, you know, we'll we'll have a scrimmage Friday or Saturday and then Hey, we're gonna get back after it you know the next week. And it was it was my first like true experience in college football. So I didn't really know any different, but all of our coaches that came from other places, you you could just see it on their face. They're just like, hey, let's we we need we need a time machine to go 12 months a ahead right now. but it was it was awesome, you know. That that team was built from Brian Bohannan on just Toughness and a practice year where you're going against each other, full pads, quarterbacks are not in red jerseys. it it helped a ton of us being the tougher team because we were we weren't more talented than any team we played. And we we ended up that first year being able to win six games because of that that previous year of just you know, everything built up from going against each other for so long, but also just just absolutely banging into each other, full pads. This is before the sports science kind of kinda like altered how teams practice. but we were the tougher team because of that previous twenty fourteen season. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. It certainly build up the toughness and either you're getting closer as a team or you're, you know, ready to you know, ready to, you know, run each other down. And again, you you don't win six games without having that right culture that says, Hey, we're gonna do this together. Everybody's in the same boat here, nobody's going to play games, so let's do it together. So you spend you spend your four years at Kennestah State, you build a program and then you head to Army. Talk about kind of that transition and going from again a Program that's brand new to one of the oldest football programs in these United States and talk about kind of that experience. Danny Payne: Yeah, I was I was super fortunate to get an opportunity to go from being a GA to a full time role at a Division I program like Army. and it was vastly different. You know, you're you're dealing with with Kennesaw State football players who, you know, not nothing wrong with with them and and I owe a lot to to those guys, but you know, they discipline wasn't necessarily the the top priority to go into Army where it was like, You know, a little bit of culture shock at first. and you don't have to deal with a lot of the things that you have to deal with off the field there. And I was going in at the right time too. They had they had just had a successful year before I got there. My first year there, we won the CIC, won nine games. The next year we won eleven. so like I like I got in at the right time up there. And, you know, it was awesome. I I learned like I said before, I learned a ton. from Coach Munkin and the staff there, but also the players and just what that place represents. so it was it was a culture shock for sure, but super glad that I was given that opportunity because it you know, everything that I've been able to accomplish and been a part of since then wouldn't have happened without those those years up there. Neil Stratton: I mean Navy owned Army before Munkin there. I can't remember how many straight games it was, but I know there was a long time that both my boys had never been alive when Navy had not beaten Army. And it was a pretty long stretch. It was a lot of fun, obviously. Those are some great years. But Coach Munkin's a a great coach and and has done wonders up there. I mean, really impressive. Danny Payne: Yeah, yeah. Rodrik David: So from Army you then head you spend four years at Army, head to Georgia Southern for one year, director of player personnel before you set decide no service academies are for me. Talk about that year away from the service academies and kind of what what Georgia Southern taught you before you you landed where you are now. Neil Stratton: And leaving after ten months, which not even a year, that's pretty pretty quick quick turnaround. Danny Payne: Yeah, it was it was a short stay in Statesboro. you know, I again every opportunity I've given or I've I've gotten, I I give a a ton of credit to the people that hired me and trusted me to do the job. but was was given the opportunity to run the recruiting department down there. And a lot of the Kennesaw staff, but also the Army staff helped me get my foot in the door there. And it was unfortunate. You know, I we were we were building something. George Southern's got a a ton of history on being a successful and a great college football program. head coach was fired fourth game into the season, my first year, my only year. And you know, that was the first time I had experienced that and you know, was able to coach Helton came in pretty early after that. And I was able to learn a lot from him. You know, he was assessing the team, he was assessing the staff, but he was recruiting. So almost every single day, him and I met and we watched film and we called kids and we were shooting text messages and to get the right players that he wanted in there. And you know, at the end of the day, I was given an opportunity at the back end of that to come to Navy, but I learned a lot from not only my time with Coach Lunsford there, but also from Coach Helton. it's just unfortunate because that that's home for me. Georgia is. And I I would have loved to spend a little bit more time there, but that's this industry, right? Georgia Southern's got a fan base that's one of the best in the entire nation. so with that comes like you better win games, right? We we gotta produce on the field. And you know, we just we weren't able to get it done, and you know, we were we're all looking jobs at the end of that season. Rodrik David: Yeah. Yeah. So you your title at Navy is now Executive Director of Football Recruiting Anal and Analytics, but I don't believe that was what it was when you got there. You've been there six years now. Talk about your role when you got there and how it's evolved and how, again, everything from AI to the transfer portal to everything that's going in on in college football, how has your role changed to where you are now? Danny Payne: Yeah, in analytics and I I'll for me, I'll define it more as game management. because I've like I said, I got a sport management major in college. So I'm I'm not a huge numbers guy traditionally, but you know, when I was at when I was at Army, Coach Munkin gave me the the fourth down analytics book and the duties with that and I absolutely became passionate about it. I fell in love with it and saw that this could be something that I could do for my career. so when when I got to Georgia Southern, I helped help the head coach in the interim out with just game management decisions, fourth downs, two point conversions, clock management. And then when I got to Navy, was able to do the same thing for that first year with Coach Niamats Lolo and you know, learned a lot. Every, every head coach that I've worked with, I've learned a ton on How they operate, but also how to teach, how to teach coaches about situational football. and then when Coach Newberry got hired my second year, you know, he him and I met a ton and he said, Hey, I've I've never called a timeout before. I've never had to make these decisions. Like, I want you, I want like help on this. I want you to be able to teach me so we can go in and I can learn the right things to do. but he also, you know, he he makes he makes his own decisions too. And, you know, the analytics and the game management, you know, the it's all pre-game. It's all decided before the the game starts. So he does a great job of getting a feel for the game and listening to the recommendations, but also making decisions that's best for the football team. So that's that's kind of how my my position has evolved since being here. And he trusts me. We've we've got a good relationship. And so, you know, he's he wants me to keep evolving in that aspect of it. So he's I've been able to get promoted within to get more of a game management analytics title and duties. you know, we use a ton of programs that supply, you know, some scouting and self-scout and you know, some AI and able to devote some time to that in the off season and camp and then weekly leading up to our games that You know, just just trying to find ways to make our coaches' jobs easier. Not that they're ever easy, but just get them answers faster. And I think we've done a good job of that. we've we've been really re not reliant, but you know, we've used these programs a lot to just find small edges, find that one percent that's gonna help us win games because we're we're always gonna need to stack those one percents. so it's it's been awesome. I'm excited to to continue to evolve that aspect of my role here and to just find ways to help us continue to win games. Neil Stratton: Danny, is your role that when okay, it's fourth and two, we have three minutes left in the first in the third quarter, whatever they're asking you, or have you prepared Coach Newberry enough to where he already knows kind of this is the situation, maybe he goes a chart or whatever. You know, is there a lot of di I guess what I'm asking is there a lot of dialogue there on game day? Danny Payne: It's it's both. It's you know, one of the biggest things that I saw a need for in and how this role would be was was just educating our coaches. So it can't be a surprise on game day. It can't be brand new information for them. So I'll meet with our head coach and I'll meet with our coordinators multiple times a week to talk about aggression, to talk about situations, to talk about things that we need to practice. And so when it comes up on game day. It's a dialogue between the head coach and I, but it's it's not brand new information to him. It's just a reminder to him. Hey, we're gonna go for it. And I I I'll give him the fourth down number on first down, so he knows. He can talk to Coach Cronik, our offensive coordinator, and say, Hey, you we gotta get it to three. And so he knows on first down, he knows on second down, he knows on third down what we are gonna go for it on fourth down. And that's helped him. Rodrik David: Okay. Danny Payne: I mean, that's helped him sequence third and fourth downs to where it's third and six. Like we don't have to go get six. We just need to go get three. Neil Stratton: You know, you mentioned Coach Cronick, his name is Drew Cronick, he's your OC there. He arrived in 2024, I think, and almost immediately the offense took off in a big way. How was he able to achieve that with this virtually the same personnel, correct me if I'm wrong, from 2023 to really change the face of navy and quite frankly, probably change the track trajectory of Coach Newberry's coaching staff there? Because I mean. It had been a real struggle offensively that year before. How how did how was he able to manifest those changes so quickly? Danny Payne: You I I think it's a culmination of a lot of things. I think it was COVID really really took a huge divot out of this program, with guys leaving with with our prep school, not being able to retain a ton of guys. And I think it took three years to really get the program back. but Coach Cronik was able to come in and and just teach, right? And so the players his his offense is incredible, right? I'm not Not discounting that, but his his teaching ability to where the players understand it and then his in-game adjustments to be able to see what the defense is is doing versus certain looks and to be able to adjust it. but getting the players on the on the same page, finding the best, you know, getting the best out of the players that we have was huge. And then really, you know, health, like we've been We've been super healthy the last two years when it comes to like the most important positions. And so having Blake Horvath play, you know, 23 out of 25 games helped a ton, right? and he's super talented. He's he's one of the best players of all time in Navy football. And he's super smart. so being able to get him to kind of understand. From Coach Cronick, what he's trying to do, getting the O-line, right? Our O-line coach that came in, Coach Guillermo, like getting those guys to to understand what the overall, the bigger picture of it is, not just what you're doing, but what's going on to the left and to the right of you. I think just the education piece and an understanding of what the overall goal is has been massive with Coach Cronick's offense. so that I I think th there's a lot more that goes into it, certainly. But those are the biggest things from from my perspective of why we were able to take such a big leap from twenty three to twenty four and then continue it last year. Rodrik David: Yeah, you can't you can't argue with the results. Again, eleven and two this last year. again, two draft picks, one from the offensive side. Again, my only gripe is there is slightly less of the most beautiful triple option offense that we just don't get to see enough of across the country. Again, the beauty of a triple option is we used to know it at the Service Academies. Again, we still see plenty of it. Again, that's neither here nor there. But again, the success is there. Again, like I said, draft picks. There's the Navy culture that is always going to be there, that that that is just part of Navy. But then within that, there is still going to be a football culture as well that's going to is exist because of what these guys do together. Talk about what Coach Newberry has done to ensure that, hey, we are Navy, yes, but we are something more with this football team and kind of how that culture has has grown and yeah, obviously led to an eleven two eleven and two year this last year. Danny Payne: Yeah, I think culture is probably the biggest reason for our consistency, and for the big jumps in in from twenty three to these last two years. he he treats us all with love. you know, he's he like everyone's gonna coach their position hard. He's gonna when things need to be addressed, he's gonna address But at the end of the day, our our players and our staff know that he loves us, right? He takes care of us like Like anytime that there can be a time for us to be at home or to be with our wife or our our kids, like he's going to allow us to do that. and you know, when when you have a leader like that, you don't want to disappoint them. and so I think we're all internally driven, not just us as as staff members, but the players, like they understand, like this, this dude. Wants the best for us, not only on the field, but as people. And so that bleeds into the culture of the football field. And it bleeds into Saturdays. to where our guys just like the portal, like our we're going up against some super talented teams every single week. And you know, you you you see the coin toss, and our guys are here and and their guys are here at the coin toss. And like No no one flinches. We like we know we're about to to to beat this team. We know about we're about to mess them up. And it's just our guys believing in each other, right? Not flinching when things go bad. We know things are gonna go bad, right? That's that's part of our culture is like how are we going to react when those things go bad? How how are we gonna respond? Right. The culture's going to bleed through. Right. And it's gonna be the difference. And it is the difference. from you know, us going up against, you know, a team with ten draft picks. And, you know, luckily for us, we had two this year, but traditionally we're gonna have none. Right. So the culture that he's he's and he he like I'm I'm Coach Niamatalolo had this culture as well. And Coach Newberry learned a lot from it. But what he's been able to do to keep that culture, put his own touches on it. it's just been it's something that I'm super proud to be a part of. And you just you want to make him proud, you want to make the academy proud, all the alumni. and he allows us to do our jobs and just just trusting us to do our job so you know we can go and do the absolute best in whatever our area is. because you don't want to disappoint him, right? He gives us so much leeway to do our jobs. And you just gotta have that internal motivation to go get it done. Not only for me, but for for the entire program. Neil Stratton: Okay, so Danny, you're right. All those things are true. Two draft picks, also a running back that got a tryout with the Steelers. But let's let's face it, culture's important, all right? Talent's important too. when I was there, you know, five years, no ifs, ands, or buts when you're done. That is a little fuzzier now, I think, but the fact remains you're looking at a military commission when you get done. The chances of getting drafted can't change playing in the league are limited. How did the focus change when you arrived as director of recruiting in twenty twenty one? How did you how were you able to bring the talent in that could be developed into future draft picks? Danny Payne: Yeah, I I don't I don't wanna claim that I did it had the magic touch on anything. I think that it's just consistency. I think everything that we do is consistency. So it's you know, from the recruiting aspect, it's it's getting making the coaches jobs easier, right? Getting them as much information as they can so they can go recruit, right? When when recruits get on campus, right, make it the best visit that they've ever had. And I think with that, you know, it it allows you to get better players. Right. And so there's always gonna be players that that it's been their dream to come play for the naval foot navy navy football team. But we're not gonna win games with those guys, you know? So we we do a really good job of having things set up in our recruiting process to where it's like, hey, this is this is a great opportunity. Come see campus. We're all speaking the same language when they get here. Like we're not hiding from any of the hard questions, right? We're gonna show you everything, we're gonna answer every single question you have, we're gonna follow up with you, we're gonna recruit the crap out of you after that. And when people see that and then they go on other visits and they're getting different answers about different things. they keep recruits and their parents and their people that help them make decisions see that. They see our how genuine we are. And we we we don't win every recruiting battle we want, but we get the right guys in here. And you know, the probably one of the biggest things, you know, talk throwing it back to culture is like our culture keeps those kids here. Like we're not losing a ton of kids to the portal. you know, we're we're not taking kids from the portal either. Right. So we're retaining a ton of our guys from our prep school, right? And then every single year we we don't have that many kids going in the portal leaving the program. So we're able to keep that culture going. So these guys that come in as freshmen are are playing with the same guys for for four to five years. And sometimes it takes it takes three to four years for them to develop into a player that can play for us and help us win games. And we we've seen a lot of that. And I think now we're at a a place in our program where we've got a great foundation, right? We've got a great senior and and junior class to where if we get a freshman that can help us, you know, they they get sprinkled in. And we've seen that the last couple of years is freshmen come in they may have limited snaps, but they're gonna they're gonna help our football program. And those are the more talented kids. Neil Stratton: Danny, I was one of those numbers you said of guys that wanted to play at Navy and loved it, but was not gonna help the team win many games. That's my talent level. How do you approach the kids that are more talented and had other options? And you explain to them what plebe year is. Explain to them what being a plebe is. And I won't go into all the vagaries of that, but it's very different from anywhere else outside of a service academy. that you're gonna have as a freshman. I mean, how do you approach that? How do you work it into the conversation even? Danny Payne: I think it's just a a part of our recruiting pitch is like this is tough, right? The academics are tough, right? Football is tough, right? You're gonna get coached hard and so you know, everything that we that we teach like we're gonna show you the the fancy stuff, we're gonna show you the shiny things, we're gonna show you the Heisman trophies. But at the end of the day, we're gonna we're gonna tell you that this place is tough, right? And we want people that want that challenge. And so With that, we we we've kind of seen that like we'll lose some kids on the front end because of that, right? And if you lose them there, like you're probably gonna lose them when they actually get here. And it is tough. And we were telling them that it wasn't gonna be tough, but we'll tell them your freshman year's tough. The the NAPS year is tough, but you're gonna get through it, right? You're gonna get through it. There's countless amount of kids on the current team that got through it. And then the culture inside the locker room is you get those guys together, right? You get a plebe that's struggling once they get out of plebe summer and you you go find a a plebe that was struggling or a sophomore that was struggling last year or junior that that's now a position captain. And you you tell them like, hey dude, it's it's tough. But once you get through this, like you're past it. Like it's done. Like your toughest year is done. And now you get to go play football. You get to go live this awesome life here. And so I I think it it's a lot of things, but it's it's being up front on the front end for with how we recruit them and being honest with the parents too. And and then once they're here, it's like the support that we have, not only staff-wise, because we have every every coach and and support staff we have can close their door and have a conversation with the kid that's struggling. But the guys that are in the locker room are best recruiters and they're the guys that are their brothers. They're they're going to keep them here. Right. And so we we've seen a ton of that and been very fortunate that we have the locker room that we have and we just gotta keep expanding on that and and keep it going from year to year. Rodrik David: Danny, in in the day and age we're in now with college football, again, we've got California teams playing in the Big Ten. The Atlantic Coast Conference has teams from California. Like we're we're talking about a CBA. We're talking about, I guess, like everything is being thrown out there. And yet, Army, Navy, Air Force are just like, hey, we're service academies. We're gonna keep playing football. Danny Payne: Yeah. Rodrik David: little bit more tied into hey, this is how we operate. How have you guys approached the unknown, knowing, hey, there's only so much we can do to adjust to conference change and to adjust to everything else that's happening across the college landscape. And do you think it gives you guys an advantage? It is it going to hurt you at some point? Is it even something you guys even think about or we're just gonna try to, you know, keep doing our thing? Danny Payne: Yeah, I mean it's probably above my pay grade a little bit. I know that we've got we've got a a national brand. and you keep winning games and and those bigger conferences are gonna win you. We are very happy where we are right now. We're the top G five conference in the country. we're playing, you know, teams that are ranked, you know, every other week. And we play Notre Dame every single year. so You know, it it's it's one of those things where it's like you try not to get too involved in in it. 'cause we're wherever we go, wherever whatever conference wants us, whatever athletic department wants to do, like we're gonna be there to play those games. And it doesn't matter if it's the ACC, the Big Ten, the Big Twelve, like we're ready for it. and it's just it's just kind of how this place is, the the toughness about it. That's bred into every single midshipman that comes to school here, but just our program. It's like it doesn't matter. It's a nameless, faceless opponent that we're playing that week. It's about us more than anything. Like whoever, whoever we're playing, like it's about us more than it's about them. Rodrik David: Absolutely. I mean that's that that's the way to approach it. Again, you're talking about that consistency within the program. Again, we do what we do and we're gonna be happy. Go ahead, Neil. Neil Stratton: I think every Navy fan, and that includes me, was surprised that Blake didn't get an NFL opportunity. And you were in the room, you were in the room when scouts were coming through, when teams were talking to you. I had heard there was some speculation, maybe even when you and I talked in Dallas in November or whatever it was, about maybe moving him around, putting him at different positions, what have you. Why didn't he get at least a minicamp invite? Dean. I mean I know and listen, I know Blake is a wants to be Navy Air and I w totally respect that, but why not at least g why didn't he at least get a chance to go to a camp? What's your theory there? Danny Payne: Yeah, I I'm not too sure. I I think the the main reason for it is he's not an NFL quarterback. He doesn't have the arm for it. He's he's a hell of an athlete, certainly. And for what he did for us, like we couldn't ask for anything better. I mean his first he's at full speed in two steps, you know, which is deceiving. but you know, I I I think having never played another position hurt him. if he wanted to pursue those and I don't I don't know if he did. I I think he's he wants to be a a pilot and he was very happy with that. But you know if if he was able to devote some time to to going out and playing receiver or had some tape playing receiver, I think he would have had an opportunity. During his pro day, he actually ran routes as a receiver and he looked he looked pretty good. to where it's all it's like, you know, if he if he was able to train for three months at receiver, like it might have been a different story. but I mean he came I I don't know how much training he did for for our pro day, but I mean he ran an elite forty. He ran like one of the one of the fastest L drills that I've seen in person. so, you know, he's just a natural athlete. He's an awesome kid. I think just his his lack of of tape at any other position probably was the ultimate deciding factor. And Neil Stratton: Really. Do you recall what his three con was? Was it sub seven? Danny Payne: I don't remember I've got it written down somewhere, but it was up there with Elizabeth. Neil Stratton: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Rodrik David: Yeah. Well I know that you you guys had quite the pro day experience this year. Obviously Eli Landon, Alex, and then Horvath all being part of it. I believe there were, you know, whatever happened that week, there were some security I'm I remember hearing stories from some scouts. Again, there were there were f again, you're going you're going to a military base. You better, you know, be able to jump through some hoops to make sure you get there and get your work done. 'Cause again, good football players were there and And you know, it was fully expect them, you know, scouts to be coming through next year. Are there are there some guys you're excited about for next year? Are you going to have again, you've now gone two back to back years. You hadn't had one since twenty twenty, had one in twenty twenty five, two this last year. Are we gonna get a three year run Navy draft pick in twenty twenty seven? Danny Payne: Yeah, we we definitely have some guys that we're excited about, but they they gotta perform, right? They're the the potential is there, which is a dangerous word. we our long snapper, you know, he people hate to to hear about long snappers. I I don't think there there's gonna be a long snapper drafted, but our long snapper has a shot to play in on Sundays. and our quarterback, he's he's a phenomenal athlete. Braxton Woodson and you know he's he's never been the guy except for a couple of games and you know we'll see how he handles it. He's he's got to go put it together, but he has everything that that you could want out of a out of an NFL prospect. so he's just got to go put that on tape this year. because when his pro day comes up he's he's gonna look phenomenal, right? He's gonna run well, he's gonna throw it well. but you know, y'all y'all know more than me that the tape is the most important thing and you know, he just doesn't have that much of it currently. Rodrik David: Yeah, well he will certainly be somebody to watch. Neil Stratton: Okay, so Danny can't let you off the Zoom without asking this question. All right, there are some great rivalries out there. We all know that. All right. Auburn, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, whatever. You and I have seen it from a different perspective. You've seen it from a different perspective from me, even. What do you tell people that say, Well, yeah, you know, with that surface academies, that's not really the same as what we're seeing at the others. What makes Army Navy special then? Danny Payne: I think it's it's a little cliche to say it, but it's what it represents. You know, there's you go to that game even as somebody working it and just the fanfare around it. You know, like you if if somebody's going into their first Army Navy game, like good luck. Good luck taking it all in. I I told a staff member his second year here, I was like like this is this is where you truly get to experience it 'cause you're through all the the march ons and the flyovers and the president being there. But what the game represents, you know for 365 days. Like I don't know how many teams, how many of these rivals are like constantly, you know, have something up in their facility about that rivalry game. But I know at at both places, like that is you're reminded of it almost daily. and it's it's just awesome when that you know there's so many butterflies when when that game comes up. It's last game of the year. which, you know, some of these some of these SEC rivals they've got a second Saturday in in October. but this one, everyone knows when that game is. It's the only game on T V. it's the the presidents there, and just what's on the line. Like we we value that commander in chief's trophy so much. It's what defines having a good season is here. And so a lot of the times especially since I've been here and even at my time at at Army is like that that game decides it. so when that trophy's on the line, like like good luck telling me there's a better rivalry out there. Rodrik David: Yeah, it's No, you got it. Neil Stratton: Yeah, my my thing on that go ahead, Roger. My thing on that is when I am around Buckeyes and I'm around, you know, Wolverines or Tide or Auburn, whatever, they wanna say, Hey, go tide, go Wolverine's. We say beat Army. And that's and that's because not because we we're not an obviously we're not fans of the Navy, but because that's the whole season. I mean, if you go one and eleven, you had a successful season if you beat Army. And again, I I think that that's that passion is part of the fabric of college football, obviously, but it's different because there's no one on that field. Well, I guess this year there were a couple, but generally speaking, there's no one on that field who's got NFL prospects and who's thinking about what's next. That's it. That there's nothing else. There's nothing next. And so That's what I think makes it a little different. Maybe something that a lot of people struggle to understand. All right. So Danny, I know you've had Go ahead. Danny Payne: Yeah. And I I think one more thing on that, Neil, is you know, and those those games are so high pressured, right? So it's it's typically low possessions, like you're gonna get eight to nine possessions in that game. So like you get a punt on one of those, like you know, you you're you're you're holding on, you know, for dear for luck after that. so just the pressure of every single possession in there, and then and then really after those games. Neil Stratton: yeah. yeah. Danny Payne: Just the people that you'll meet, the people that will come up to you and in and just thank you for winning that game, being a part of winning that game, the emails you'll receive, the text you'll receive after that game. it's it's one of the the things I'm most proud of in my industry is not only being a part of that game, but like winning that game and just seeing how happy it makes people, right? You know, on they show You know, the the film or the the video from, you know, bases across the country and people losing their minds. so you know, you get people on the field crying, you know, after you win the game. so it's it it means so much. And I know all rivalries mean a lot to whatever schools they're a part of, but like what that game means to not only the two schools, but to the world. into our to our armed forces is is phenomenal. And and Air Force is a close second right behind it too. You know, you win that game. It's the first leg in winning that trophy. but, you know, winning that game just it's it's been awesome. I I'm never I've been lucky to to win that game a few times. you know just I'm never surprised by how many people come up to me. And like I like I didn't I didn't play the game, you know, like And they just they just thank like they give you a hug. Like you're you're hugging random people on the field after that. And so it's it's awesome. and I'm very proud to be a part of it. Rodrik David: Danny, four on one side. Four on one side. Neil Stratton: I hope that I hope my text Roderick before you start I hope my checks that I sent you and Cyrus was the first one, but probably not the first one you got congratulating y'all after you won. and I'll try to be faithful to that every year. Go ahead, Roderick. I'm sorry. Danny Payne: Let's go. Rodrik David: Four on the Army side, six on the Navy side, your record in that game. Surely you're keeping w what how many times has your side won? Danny Payne: So I'm three and one at Army, and I'm two and two. So this is my fifth season at Navy. So I'm I'm two and two in that game at Navy. Rodrik David: well, tiebreaker this year. Again, I I can speak to the fanfare. Growing up in Colorado, it was Air Force games and the fanfare, the w the march ins, the flyovers. Again, hard to beat the flyovers. You got again every known jet shaking the stadium. Again, there were plenty of cadets that were good heckling, you know, the the opposing players, which was always fun, especially when it was BYU, such a you know, you know, righteous school o out there. But again, anyway. Danny Payne: That's right. Yeah. Rodrik David: I've got to get to Army Navy. Again, Neil and I have gone back and forth on it and you know, I I love the again, an an Ohio State grad. the Ohio State Michigan game certainly means something. but again, I've got to get to Army Navy just so I can give an actual opinion on is this rivalry game and the spectacle as much as Neil tells me it is. Yeah, absolutely. Danny Payne: Come on out. Come on, man. Let's go. Neil Stratton: I'll go with you, Roderick. We'll enjoy it together, buddy, and I'll be in here of course the whole time about how great it is. All right. So Danny, you've had NFL opportunities, is my understanding. So far you haven't taken advantage of those. Why is that? Rodrik David: Here we go. Danny Payne: You know, I I've been I've been lucky. I've been fortunate in my career and every time that I've had an opportunity I'll I'll talk to our head coach and you know we'll we'll talk it out. Like, is this a good opportunity to me? 'Cause he's a mentor to me. You know, he he obvious he wants me to stay. but you know, he'll be honest with me, like, hey, you should pursue this, you should pursue that. Let me know how it goes. but at the end of the day, I know what I have here. I know what I have with him being my boss. And those it's hard to replicate that. It's hard to say, like, I think that this is gonna be a better opportunity. And he's always he's always helped me out to get me to stay as well with more opportunities. and it's it's just been it's been tough to, you know, go to him with some of these opportunities, but he's always been had an open door. with me and willing to talk about all of that. And, you know, I've been I've been really fortunate to where I don't feel afraid to go talk to him about these opportunities. You know, I can go in there and say, Hey, this is something I'd really I potentially would leave for. And he he does what he can to to talk to the athletic director and and make some things happen. And I've been really fortunate in in that aspect to to stay here with him and you know I'm I'm excited to be here at the same time with with more opportunities down the road as well. Rodrik David: Yeah, absolutely. Well, no question that it's a good spot. It's a stable spot, man. Maybe maybe about a stablest program as we we see in the country right now. And it's gonna be tough to improve on eleven and two and two draft picks, but no doubt you guys have been putting in the work and you know, I know Neil is wishing best of luck for you, wearing his midshipmen's jersey around probably You know, all all week, you know, every as the games get ready to kick off. But Danny, good luck. If people wanna follow you, people wanna reach out, people wanna learn more about you, are you on socials? Are you where can people find ya? Danny Payne: Yeah, on Twitter, I think my Twitter is Danny Pain Navy. and then my email address is dpain at usna.edu. I'm I'm on the website, my my email's on there as well. So I I I love connecting with people. I I really appreciate this opportunity. And if anybody sees this and wants to connect on, you know, recruiting, academy life, game management, analytics, like I'd I'd love to To hop on the phone and and talk about that stuff. Neil Stratton: And will you be in Nashville in August, Danny? Rodrik David: Well I will Danny Payne: I will not. Neil Stratton: Okay. All right. Okay. Well, that's always a great networking event, but but th these things happen and and the game carries on, obviously. Danny Payne: S but but Cyrus will be there. Rodrik David: Yeah, well I'll I'll drop all those. I'll drop your email, drop your social handle in the show notes so everybody can check it out there. But man, good luck to Navy Danny. This has been fantastic. I appreciate it. Hopefully, you know, start getting my travel book for the Army Navy game this year and come out and Neil and I will will tailgate, you'll see us, we'll have a lot of fun. But appreciate you being on and good luck to you. Danny Payne: Yeah, I appreciate y'all. Thank y'all so much. Neil Stratton: Thanks again.