Latest / Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza / Ep.71 – How Virtuous Leaders Fight Cancel Culture: Neil Patel’s Story | Faith In Media | Building Strong Families | Free Speech

Transcript

Ep.71 – How Virtuous Leaders Fight Cancel Culture: Neil Patel’s Story | Faith In Media | Building Strong Families | Free Speech · Virtuous Leaders with Dr. Johann D'Souza

0:00
Trust in media is at an all time low.
0:02
It's been declining actually for a few decades, but it really
0:05
went down in the last few years and it's never been lower in our
0:09
history. This is Doctor D'souza.
0:13
You're listening to the podcast for base young Catholics who are
0:17
willing to give their lives to speak the truth, do good and
0:20
defend beauty. Have a very special guest on
0:23
today, Neil Patel. Neil, you are the Co founder and
0:27
CEO of the Tucker Carlson network.
0:29
So Tucker says start with the dumb questions. 1st.
0:32
I'm going to start with a dumb question.
0:33
What is the Tucker Carlson Network?
0:36
It's pretty simple actually. It's really just the media
0:38
enterprise Tucker uses to get the word out.
0:40
So we feature content from Tucker supplemented with
0:44
documentaries and other features that we make sometimes with
0:47
others or sometimes their in house team, but mostly it's
0:49
Tucker show. And that's something we air
0:53
three times a week on our site tuckercarlson.com, on our soon
0:57
to be released mobile apps, on TV apps and really on every
1:01
platform. So we, you know, we're on
1:04
YouTube, every audio podcast platform, anywhere we can find
1:08
an audience, we put our show. So I was intrigued when you guys
1:13
launched because I, I knew the, the podcast.
1:16
I mean, that's what I'm used to. But then I see, OK, Tucker's
1:18
launched this other thing that's I don't know, is it like the
1:20
daily Wire? What is it?
1:21
So what? What is the vision here with the
1:23
with? TCN our vision is really to tell
1:27
the I mean, our mission and our vision are pretty similar, which
1:30
is to tell the truth at scale. That shouldn't be a rare thing.
1:35
I feel like in America, 2025 that is a rare thing.
1:39
Tucker obviously built his career in other forms of media,
1:41
started out as a writer and then had a long run on television,
1:45
working for a number of networks, most recently and most
1:48
famously with Fox News. But we live in a country where
1:53
it's hard to tell the truth, where there's a lot of lying
1:55
going on. And we want to build and have
1:58
really already built a business that gives Tucker the freedom to
2:03
ask any question he wants of any person he wants without any fear
2:07
of repercussions from anybody, and the economic freedom to do
2:12
that. Meaning if there's a great
2:14
interview in Moscow in two days, we can get our team on on some
2:18
planes and be over there and have no problems doing it.
2:21
So it's really just a business enterprise designed to afford
2:25
Tucker that freedom. Hey, you say it's rare in
2:29
American 2025 and I just got to say, man, I don't think it has
2:32
anything to do with America 2025.
2:33
I think it's since the fall of mankind in the garden, when the
2:36
devil became the Lord of the world, it's been difficult and
2:40
rare to tell the truth. And because it's each of us is
2:43
broken on the inside, not completely incorrupt, but we, we
2:46
need to be redeemed. So what?
2:49
Let me say, I mean, I definitely agree with that.
2:51
This is not the broader phenomena, is not brand new.
2:55
I will say in America, we're supposed to value free speech.
2:58
We have pretty good history of doing so.
3:00
It's the very First Amendment to our Constitution.
3:02
It's sort of the core of who we are as a society, and I do think
3:06
that's eroded in recent years more than even in the past.
3:09
So I'm not pretending that this has ever been perfect at all,
3:13
but I do think it's sort of a bedrock American principle
3:16
that's been eroded in recent years and therefore sort of core
3:20
to what we're doing. Yeah, that's that's an important
3:23
distinction because now we have, on top of the frailty of human
3:26
nature, we have just the hypocrisy where we say we're a
3:29
country of freedom and the reality is far from that.
3:33
You know, in America you can in general you could still say
3:37
things, although even that had been under attack.
3:41
You know, some of the regulatory regime around speech has really
3:44
been amped up and the repercussions for saying things
3:47
are greater than they've ever been depending on what
3:50
environment you're in, if you're on a university campus for
3:52
instance, or if you're a corporate employee, etcetera,
3:54
etcetera. But beyond that, in modern sort
3:58
of in the digital age, if you can't reach an audience, if, if,
4:03
if all the platforms that control access to ears and
4:06
eyeballs are kind of stacked against you, then you may have
4:13
the theoretical right to free speech, but it's severely
4:16
restricted. And I think that's where I,
4:17
where I was, what I was sort of pointing to when I said, you
4:21
know, this is under attack. And I think we hadn't seen
4:23
anything like the speech codes and the restrictions that all
4:27
the major platforms that imposed in recent years.
4:31
And Elon Musk kind of broke that monopoly on speech regulation
4:37
when he bought X for a really inflated price.
4:39
And I think all the controversies with Elon aside,
4:42
today, the country owes him a debt of gratitude for that.
4:45
But I think that helped people like Tucker, like Rogan, like
4:49
many others who who have now massive audience is probably
4:53
bigger than mainstream media, but it helped them reach them
4:56
because you have to find a way to get in front of people.
4:59
And these platforms were becoming extremely restrictive
5:02
and. You're not even talking about
5:04
what what may be the bigger issue, which is people not
5:08
speaking the truth just out of fear.
5:10
So there there's like a distinction of people who are
5:13
willing to speak the truth, which is a very small minority,
5:16
but then there's a much broader base of people who are just
5:18
unwilling to speak the truth. And so in even if we have the
5:22
protection in theory, which we don't, well, I guess we have it
5:24
in theory, but we don't have it in practice if people are
5:28
unwilling to exercise that right.
5:31
Yeah, we don't. And actually we don't even.
5:34
It's getting a little better now, but at its worst we didn't
5:37
even have it in theory. You know, all these platforms
5:39
had speech code, they were on the website, you could look them
5:41
up and you can't talk about XY or Z or we will deep platform
5:44
you. And now what does that mean to
5:46
deep platform? If if if you're in the media
5:48
business and you spend years building up an audience on a
5:51
platform that and sometimes even paying advertising to build up
5:55
that audience, you know, you get more followers, you can do ad
5:58
campaigns to get those followers.
5:59
So you really may have even invested in this platform.
6:02
They can shut you off like that just for saying the wrong thing.
6:05
So not even in theory did you have a free speech right on a
6:08
lot of these platforms. So devil's advocate, is that
6:12
actually against the 1st Amendment?
6:13
Given that these are private companies, do they have the
6:16
right to control who they who they do business with, who they
6:19
chose to? They don't.
6:20
Yeah, no, I don't think tech. Well, if it's purely private
6:24
action, I don't think there's a very good case that that's a
6:26
violation of the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment restricts the
6:29
government, not private actors. We did have a case, though.
6:33
Good that you brought this up. Under the Biden administration,
6:36
many arms of the government, including the White House and
6:39
Department of Justice, Department of Homeland Security,
6:42
we're pressuring these social media platforms to restrict
6:45
speech. And, and sometimes in very
6:47
specific cases, they would go on and say, look what Tucker said
6:50
last night. This should be a violation of
6:52
your, of your policies. Why aren't you taking it down?
6:54
So there is an argument that actually there is a government
6:58
restriction on speech case in some of these situations.
7:00
But yes, you're right, in general private platform I do
7:02
believe in that should have the right to put on whatever they
7:05
want in their own platform. That's a very good point you
7:08
make. So how are you what?
7:10
How are you accomplishing the goals that you've set at the
7:12
beginning through the content that you produce, like in
7:15
addition to Tucker's personal show?
7:18
Well, we're just going out and looking at sort of the landscape
7:21
of America today. We have a very biased we've had
7:24
in my view and everything. I'm staying here with you.
7:26
Is it just my view? But I'm pretty sure I'm right on
7:29
this. The media has been biased
7:31
towards the left really in my whole adult life, but it's
7:37
changed and it's gotten worse over the years where it's, it's
7:42
now not just like a soft kind of bias, but flat out very
7:45
legitimate stories are just not being told because they don't
7:48
like the implications of those stories.
7:49
So we focus on those, you know, Tucker's finding things, finding
7:53
guests, finding topics that you won't find in much of the rest
7:56
of the of the media and he's exposing things.
7:59
So, and the entire business model is built around that.
8:03
And there's, you know, there's a trust with our audience.
8:06
And I think trust as far as values go is definitely the
8:10
defining value for our company. Trust in media is at an all time
8:15
low. It's been declining actually for
8:17
a few decades, but it really went down in the last few years
8:21
and it's never been lower in our history.
8:24
So people are seeing a world which is changing quickly, a
8:27
country which is changing quickly, and they're seeing the
8:30
normal intermediaries fail. So the normal places you would
8:33
go to get information, people don't know if they can trust
8:35
them anymore. So they're they're looking for
8:37
new avenues to find information. And luckily those are sprouting
8:40
up, and that's the core of what we're doing.
8:43
What's it like working with Tucker?
8:44
He's awesome. You know, it's funny.
8:47
So I, I have a different situation.
8:49
Tucker and I have been friends since college.
8:50
Like very good friends, godparents, each other's kids,
8:53
you know, like. Oh wow, that's awesome.
8:55
Close families and have known each other for many decades now
9:00
but and so I'm like the worst guy to to opine on this because
9:05
he's a good friend of mine, but I'm telling you the truth.
9:09
Unlike a lot of people in especially in television, his
9:12
last medium, Tucker's like incredibly normal and incredibly
9:17
like decent person. That's actually unusual in the
9:20
TV world. Like people are sick one way on
9:23
camera. And and there are many famous
9:25
cases where TV hosts have been clipped off camera, like
9:28
screaming at their staff or throwing a coffee roster.
9:31
O'Reilly yeah, he has some good videos.
9:33
On you there's a watch. Not just O'Reilly, but yeah,
9:36
that was a famous one. But there's so many.
9:39
Yeah. And the thing about Tucker is
9:40
like, she a good guy and anyone who gets to know him realizes
9:44
that. So he's great to work with.
9:48
And you know, you could ask our entire staff, most of whom
9:51
aren't, you know, multi decade long friends of Tucker's, and
9:53
they would say the same thing. He's just like he's, he's
9:56
easygoing. He's obviously, you know, we
10:00
want to have the huge show. We want to have a huge impact.
10:02
So we have real work to do. So it's like it's a work
10:05
environment and people have to do their jobs.
10:07
But is he like, you know, he's, he's easy to predict.
10:11
He's a very fair person. He's hilarious in person.
10:15
He's a lot of fun in person. And our staff, you know, loves
10:17
workable. Well, I hope I get famous enough
10:20
one day to be able to throw coffee mugs with impunity.
10:23
I've had, you know, in addition to Tucker, I run a news site
10:25
called The Daily Caller and we've we've hired literally at
10:28
this point hundreds of young kids over the years.
10:30
We've been around for 15 years. And I actually founded that
10:33
company with Tucker also. It's very different model.
10:35
It's Daily News, sort of a newspaper online.
10:39
But you know, because we've hired so many more people at
10:42
that company over so many years, I've had refugees from so many
10:45
other media and just tell me the stories about the coffee cups
10:48
that like went whizzing by their.
10:50
So it's actually not as rare as you would think.
10:53
Well, I, I want to talk about the daily Congress, but I, I'm
10:56
still on this Tucker gig. I, I just can't believe that I'm
10:58
talking to you right now. I can't believe that I'm 1°
11:01
removed from Tucker right now. So I've been like consciously
11:05
trying to restrain my enthusiasm, but I'm a huge
11:08
Tucker fan. I mean, I, I, I don't watch the
11:11
news. I don't read politics.
11:13
Like my my only Ave. to what's going on in 2025 is listening to
11:17
Tucker's show. That's the only podcast I listen
11:19
to pretty much, certainly on a regular basis.
11:23
So what, what is the how do you guys get those gifts?
11:27
And how do you, how do you plan? What's the processing plan for
11:30
that? A lot of it's self driven by
11:33
Tucker. He just, he reads like more than
11:35
anybody I've ever met. And he's, he's just an extremely
11:38
curious person. So a lot of times, you know, we,
11:41
he will just write in and we have sort of a, a show booking
11:44
group and led by his former Booker from Fox.
11:48
So we have a lot of, we have a lot of the team on our staff
11:50
that he had with him at Fox. And our lead Booker is amazing.
11:54
And our, and our other Booker's amazing and they, they're great
11:57
at tracking people down. But then others are recommended
12:00
by our staff, either the Bookers, the producers, our
12:03
social media team, people who just watch a lot of media or
12:06
interact a lot of media. You know, the whole staff is
12:08
able to recommend people. And Tucker signs off on who he
12:11
wants to talk to. I'd say I don't know the exact
12:14
number, but a lot of it, maybe more than half is, is self
12:17
driven by Tucker. And then the others are people
12:20
that other people in our staff have suggested.
12:23
OK. Yeah, because one thing that's
12:24
impressive about it is, at least for me who is not super well
12:27
informed, I I'll find these guests who have I've never heard
12:30
of before and they have incredible stories.
12:33
Yeah, that's the most fun part. And it's getting it to such a
12:36
wide stream audience because some of these people are are
12:39
really well known in the dark web, I guess.
12:41
But now you get it into the the mainstream of the dark web.
12:46
Is that what we are? We're the mainstream of the dark
12:47
web. I hope so.
12:49
I hope you're. You know, it's funny, I, I love
12:51
the mix actually, you know, I love the fact that we can fly
12:54
across the world, interview Prime Minister or some country
12:57
and the next day it's some sub stack author no one has ever
13:00
heard of. And that sub stack author made
13:02
you better, you know, 'cause that guy happens to be brilliant
13:05
and is talking about saying no one had ever heard before.
13:08
And this happens a lot. And so I and I love that mix of
13:11
like world famous person, you know, 1 episode author, writer,
13:19
the next episode that no one's ever heard of and it takes off.
13:21
And so yeah, it's, it's a cool mix and it's sort of driven by
13:25
that process. I just kind of went over with
13:27
you. So I'm a big fan of reading,
13:30
especially since we're in a new dark age.
13:32
So in the in the previous dark age, purportedly we got through
13:36
it through basically preserving reading and writing in the
13:40
monasteries. What is?
13:42
So what is Tucker's reading plan?
13:43
You mentioned that he reads a lot.
13:45
I want to take some notes from this.
13:48
Well, he's probably not a guy to replicate in the sense that he
13:54
he has given out his cell phone number to anyone he's met for
13:58
decades now and not really did it.
14:01
And I mean like the interesting waiter at the.
14:03
That's not possible. You know the interesting waiter
14:06
at the restaurant to like some world leader and.
14:09
Well, no wonder the NSA spied on him.
14:11
Gosh, this guy is not. Like a treasure trove in there.
14:14
But. And he keeps in touch with
14:16
people and he, I'm telling you, man, that guy texts with like AI
14:19
don't know, I'm, I'm not exaggerating, like 1000 people a
14:21
day. It's crazy.
14:23
But he, you know, people are sending him all kinds of
14:25
articles, information, and he just stays plugged in.
14:27
And also he's, you know, he's now been at this for so long
14:31
that he just knows a lot of the people who are sort of at the
14:33
center of things. So yeah, he finds a lot of these
14:37
guests that I've never heard of, you know, a bunch of them and a
14:40
lot of that self driven. OK, so it's not like he's he's
14:44
sitting down with like Aristotle on his lap.
14:46
It's mostly like getting like up to date news.
14:48
No, I mean, he reads a lot of books.
14:49
But but no, it's, it's a lot of it's, you know, friends of his
14:55
people reaching out. So what?
14:57
What's the deal with his fascination with Christianity
15:02
and 'cause I I notice he regularly asks guests, have you
15:06
noticed that there's a Christian resurgence or a Bible?
15:12
I've I've noticed that there is just by listening to his guests
15:16
and I'm but I'm curious about why he's so interested in that.
15:20
Well, he's a religious person. You know, some of the faith he,
15:24
I think he has lost a lot of confidence in, in a lot of our
15:29
organized religions. I don't think he, he goes to
15:31
church regularly like he used to, you know, when he lived in
15:33
BC at a church that he went to with his family every week.
15:36
I think he's doing less of that. I know he's reading the Bible
15:41
again or I don't know how many times, but you know, he's, he's
15:45
very, he's very religious, but not, not as associated with like
15:50
an organized church anymore. And then I think he sees it with
15:53
others around him. You know, we did a live tour
15:56
during the last election cycle and we were we were doing big
15:58
arenas and you couldn't help but notice it.
16:02
There's something going on in the country in the midst of all,
16:06
you know, there's a lot of negative surrounding us, but in
16:09
the midst of that, it's hard not to notice that there's something
16:12
deeper going on and there is some kind of spiritual awakening
16:17
happening. You can feel it.
16:18
We could feel it on that tour in every city.
16:21
And, and I think he's just, he's seeing that and he's feeling
16:25
that and he's talking about it, 'cause that's, you know, that's
16:27
what he does. I I felt it.
16:30
I remember listening to those live tours and it was powerful.
16:34
I was, I was so excited to get to the next and then I was so
16:36
blown away that Trump was on the last one.
16:38
Maybe that was predictable. Maybe I should have predicted
16:40
it, but still, that was really cool.
16:41
Well. Yeah, it was all, it was all
16:43
really fun and really cool and a unique moment in known time.
16:46
But sometimes it was super overt, you know, Russell Brand
16:49
dropped to his knees and and said a pair.
16:52
We have a friend who's a minister in Florida and we
16:54
brought him out to he, he's also a musician.
16:57
And he would sing and then he would open the events with a
17:00
prayer when, when he was around. So like there was, you know,
17:03
there was something to it and it was, it was pretty powerful and
17:05
amazing. OK, so I could go on for a
17:09
while, but about Tucker, but let's get to the Daily Caller.
17:12
Yeah, so you mentioned, you described it a little bit
17:14
briefly. So what, what is, what would you
17:16
say is the purpose of it? Why did you found it?
17:19
So Daily Caller, I always think of it as a startup.
17:21
It's been around for a long time.
17:22
I mentioned 15 years. To me, the biggest problem that
17:28
conservatives, which is a hard thing to even define these days,
17:31
but in, you know, conservatives writ large have had is
17:34
communicating to the American people through this broken media
17:37
ecosystem we have. And with with the advent of
17:41
digital, the barrier to entry for media dropped.
17:45
So in the old days, if you want to start a newspaper, you had to
17:49
buy these huge expensive printing presses and have a
17:52
warehouse and have them all installed.
17:53
And you had to have a team of kids on bikes throwing, you
17:56
know, newspapers at houses. It was kind of a big investment
18:00
and a big lift to get going. Now you just put up a website.
18:03
You can do that literally in 24 hours if you had to, probably
18:07
wouldn't be the best looking site on the Internet, but you
18:08
can get it up quickly. So that the concept of Daily
18:11
Caller was way back when we launched, The Huffington Post
18:15
had launched sort of midway through the Bush years.
18:19
And by the end of the Bush years, The Huffington Post had
18:21
more online readership than The Washington Post.
18:25
And it was just sort of shocking to me that, you know, this
18:29
Arianna Huffington was kind of a big deal, like a celeb type, but
18:32
not like, she wasn't like, a national A Lister.
18:35
This woman starts this news company and all of a sudden has
18:37
more readership than the Washington Post.
18:40
And we just wondered, like, why is no one on the right taking
18:43
advantage? And there were a few news sites
18:47
on the right, but they were almost exclusively about opinion
18:50
writing. And what we really need is our
18:53
own source of information, just straight up information like go
18:57
to events, write down what's happening, interview leaders,
19:00
ask them questions. And no one was doing that.
19:03
So the core of The Daily Caller is really just an online
19:06
newspaper, heavy focus on politics, but it covers current
19:10
events, business news, some sports, entertainment,
19:15
everything. So it's really just a digital
19:16
newspaper and publishing a couple 100 stories, original
19:20
stories a day now. And it's grown quite
19:25
substantially from, you know, I think we started with a 20
19:27
person staff and now there's over 100 at we have a for profit
19:31
Daily Caller and a nonprofit, 2 separate entities and between
19:34
them there's over 100 people producing a lot of original
19:38
news. We've been part of the sort of
19:40
the Washington press corps for a long time.
19:43
So what I mean by that is like on Capitol Hill credentialed and
19:46
in the White House press room, credentialed going on trips with
19:50
leaders asking tough questions. I will say during some
19:54
administrations, the last one we just had, for example, we had
19:57
someone in that press briefing room, every press briefing.
20:00
And I think in four years, we got 2 questions asked.
20:03
So there's all this debate now like Trump's cutting out the AP
20:05
and everyone's up in arms, but no one seemed up in arms when,
20:08
you know, the Biden White House absolutely cut us out because
20:11
they didn't not tough question. They didn't want people to ask
20:14
about his, you know, mental capacity, for example, the
20:16
biggest question probably of of that era.
20:19
And we would have. So anyway, it's it's a digital
20:23
outlet just there to balance and give people a source of
20:27
information that's free of all the bias and I would say
20:32
outright corruption that's happening in our major.
20:34
Media today what your audience numbers look like.
20:37
They're pretty big. We're getting like 20 million
20:39
readers a month. So I will say Congrats, thank
20:43
you. And I will say, going back to
20:46
our initial conversation about censorship, you know, another
20:50
part of the censorship is just algorithmic censorship.
20:52
So the Daily Caller, when we launched, we, we grew pretty
20:57
quickly. A lot of that was Tucker.
20:58
I Tucker was part of the company initially.
21:01
He no longer is, I bought him out of my company a bit ago.
21:03
But he, he's great at breaking news.
21:05
He's great at finding good stories and he's great at
21:07
training journalists. So we broke a lot of stories
21:09
early on and, and the Daily Caller's existence and grew
21:12
pretty rapidly then figured out what are the things to do to
21:16
really get good and to reach a lot of people.
21:17
And one of them is like understanding how Google search
21:20
works. And I am sort of optimizing your
21:23
content so that the Google search crawler can can read your
21:29
site well and you always have up to date information on there.
21:32
And we got really good at that. So at one point we were getting
21:35
nearly 30% of our readership from just Google search.
21:39
We also got really good at Facebook, which is a platform
21:41
that has a lot of older Americans on it, a lot of right
21:43
of center people on it. And at one point, I think our
21:47
high was like 25% of our readership was coming from
21:49
Facebook. All that ended after 2016
21:51
election. There was a real pressure on the
21:54
social platforms to shut down any site that was viewed as I
21:58
would say at all fair to Donald Trump.
22:01
So we went from 35% Google search to like 1%.
22:05
We went from 5% of our traffic from Facebook down to 2%.
22:09
So it changed the whole game and became much more difficult,
22:12
fundamentally unfair, really not much you can.
22:15
These are private companies, not much you can do, but they want
22:17
to do that but. It's but if you said they were
22:19
pressured, I mean, because that's a big change.
22:21
Well, I. Mean if they were pressured.
22:22
From the left, you know, I don't have any proof that like I don't
22:25
know, DNC pressured them. I'm sure they did, but I don't
22:28
have any proof of that. So I'm not saying it was
22:31
necessarily government coercion, but it was coercion from, you
22:35
know, the left that was very upset and two options when
22:38
Donald Trump, you know, ATV host billionaire comes out of nowhere
22:41
and takes over the politics of your country. 1 You could look
22:44
inwardly and say, did we do something wrong?
22:46
Like maybe we should reconsider our policies.
22:49
Maybe people aren't so happy that never really had that
22:51
happened for like a split second after 2016.
22:53
But it was quickly like a look, a search for scapegoats.
22:57
You know, it was, if you remember back to that era, it
23:00
was like for a minute, it was like, you know, the Facebook ads
23:03
that Russia bought, you know, that it was like a $200,000 of
23:06
ads. They say that's one swung the
23:07
whole election like insanity. The other one was let's crush
23:10
any, any outlet that's giving him a voice that's being at all
23:13
fair to him. And so we got caught up in that.
23:15
So it's been a harder company. It's been harder to to grow and
23:19
to reach audience. But we still do have a big
23:21
audience. And and what sets it apart from
23:23
similar outlets like Citizen Free Press or other ones that
23:28
you may be more familiar with? I think there's a lot of good
23:30
outlets. I've never had a competitive
23:32
view of this that we have to like crush competitors in order
23:35
to win. The media is dominated, at least
23:39
if you look at sort of the finances of the companies or how
23:41
much investments gone in by very left-leaning companies.
23:45
All the corporate media outlets, ABC News, NBC News, CBS News,
23:48
CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, all
23:51
are more left-leaning. So I, I view it as sort of those
23:56
are the corporate or legacy media.
23:58
And then I view our side as the independent media.
24:00
And on the independent media side, I think there's a number
24:02
of good outlets. There's a number of good purely
24:04
independent people like Substack authors, but I don't view us as
24:10
having to compete with any of those.
24:11
Everyone can grow at the same time.
24:12
And I think there's other really good ones, but I do think we
24:15
focus really hard on the basics that everyone should focus on.
24:18
Try to tell the truth as best you can.
24:20
It's a complicated world. Sometimes you'll get something
24:22
wrong, but make the effort, like really try to tell the truth.
24:24
Check your facts and they have basic things.
24:27
Spell words correctly, you know, just like ask questions like
24:32
look at your article. Am I missing something?
24:34
Is this, is this missing another point of view?
24:36
Let's Add all the points to you. Let the reader decide what's
24:39
what, what to believe or not. Don't try to shove it down their
24:41
throat. So I think on the on a quality
24:44
basis, I think we're doing a good job, but I do think there
24:46
are others also doing a good job.
24:48
How optimistic are you that we can turn down the turn back the
24:51
Cultural Revolution that has swept in this country and the
24:54
world? Man, that's a great question.
24:58
I I am somewhat optimistic. I think it peaked.
25:02
I think the crazy peaked. I think a lot of normal people
25:09
who don't want to be mean and who don't want to get too
25:13
involved finally hit their limit, probably post COVID, post
25:20
all the insanity on everything's about your sexuality or your
25:25
race. I think a lot of normal people
25:28
just said this is too much and are pushing back against all
25:32
that. So I'm hoping it peaked.
25:34
It seems like it's peaked. But I will say the hard left,
25:37
and I do think all that stuff is driven by very ideological, very
25:42
committed hard left activists. I don't think they'll give up.
25:46
I think they're, they're relentless.
25:48
So just because I think it's peaked once, that's the reason
25:51
I'm, I'm not answering you completely in the affirmative.
25:54
In the affirmative. You know, I, I think it's a
25:56
little better today than it was a few years ago.
25:59
Will it be better in a few years?
26:01
I certainly hope so. And I and I think probably
26:04
because I think people are more caught on to it now than they
26:06
were. But you know, I don't know the
26:08
answer to that. How, how optimistic are you that
26:12
Trump will fulfill his campaign promises?
26:16
I think my biggest critique of him is that the he's not based
26:20
enough, you know, and I'm starting to get concerned,
26:23
genuinely. What?
26:25
What do you think? I guess I have two things.
26:30
One, I think at his core, he has really good instincts and I
26:38
think I think he will push. I also think it's very hard in
26:44
our system to effectuate change. And to be fair to him and to
26:50
them, it's harder inside when you see all the everything that
26:55
needs to be done and balanced and he's dealing with this
26:58
Congress that's not super aligned, including the
27:00
Republicans almost more. I'm almost purely talking about
27:05
the Republicans. Actually, you can't.
27:07
You can't expect very many Democrats at all to get on
27:09
board. But it's very hard for him to
27:11
even bring all the Republicans on board.
27:12
And you're seeing it in this bill they're trying to pass
27:15
right now, which is, in my view, extremely imperfect.
27:20
And there's a lot I can criticize in it.
27:23
I do temper that a little bit with just knowing that it's so
27:26
much easier to sort of poke from the outside then get it done
27:30
from the inside. And I do think he's trying.
27:31
So I give him a lot of credit. I do think they've accomplished
27:35
a lot already. I think what they've done on the
27:36
southern border already has been amazing.
27:41
There's a lot more on the immigration area I think they
27:43
could do or wish they would do. But I do think it's been
27:46
something to LOD so far, just just tightening up the border.
27:51
So I, you know, I think it's never going to be as good as
27:54
promised, but I think it'll, I think it's the other flip side
27:57
of this is it's definitely no matter what going to be 100
28:00
times better than a Kamala Harris administration would
28:02
have. So, you know, that's what I sort
28:04
of fall back on. Yeah, yeah.
28:06
Well, to his great credit, he's he's shown that he's willing to
28:11
die for his beliefs and that hopes that's the same can be
28:14
said of us and of his his team members.
28:19
Yeah. I'm hoping that there are some
28:21
things that seem to me could be like relatively easy wins and
28:24
substantial wins, like just declassifying documents.
28:29
I mean, maybe I'm just naive and it's like incredibly difficult
28:32
to do so, but it seems to me that that's an easy win.
28:36
You know, I well, first of all, I 100% agree with you.
28:40
I and I I mean, they talk about the fact that there could be
28:42
personal information that you need to redact this and that I'm
28:47
a little more open to that argument for some of the very
28:51
news, newer stuff, Epstein stuff, you know, there could be
28:54
minors and, you know, contact information or something.
28:57
You would I wouldn't want someone releasing that if it was
28:59
my kid. So I get that.
29:01
But when you go back to like the Kennedy assassination, what are
29:05
we trying to protect at that point?
29:07
Why shouldn't it just all come out?
29:08
So and it did more came out under Trump than before, but I'm
29:13
so much was redacted. So look, I, I think the trust
29:18
levels in our country, you know, I don't think I know it's just
29:21
fact. The trust levels in our country,
29:23
not just a trust in media, which I mentioned, but trust in our
29:26
national institutions are at all time lows.
29:29
And the obvious antidote to that is just to trust the American
29:33
people more and let them see everything and make their own.
29:35
Exactly. It does make you wonder if that
29:39
seems so difficult, are they just trying to hide something?
29:41
And it's at some point becomes impossible not to just conclude
29:44
they're clearly just trying to hide something.
29:47
So and Donald Trump put out executive orders very early on
29:50
saying release all this stuff and it's still not out.
29:54
So why is it still not out? I mean, people are getting upset
29:57
and I don't blame them. So yeah, I agree.
30:00
I wish it would go faster. And if they really do have to be
30:03
redacting stuff or that's really what's going on here, they
30:06
really need to get on it at like top priority because people are
30:09
getting frustrated and they're just losing faith in the system.
30:12
And that's not that's not good for anybody.
30:15
I think what the American people need is a fire hose of truth.
30:18
Yeah, it does seem like there's a lot of reluctance to to let
30:21
that happen. See, you've accomplished a lot
30:25
in your career and I hope continue to do so.
30:27
Can can I ask what was the biggest challenge you overcame
30:33
on this journey and how did you do so?
30:40
I would say the biggest challenge was a business
30:42
challenge. I didn't realize how much
30:49
institutional obstacles, how many institutional obstacles
30:57
will be put up. And what I mean by that is there
31:00
is a real desire amongst those in power in America who I think
31:04
have kind of botched things in the last couple decades to crush
31:10
independent media. They, they have pretty good
31:13
control over the corporate media.
31:15
They do not like independence, asking questions.
31:18
They do not like our existence, period.
31:21
And so I don't think I'm horrible at business, but the
31:23
challenges you have to overcome to run an independent media
31:27
company in America today. And I hate whining.
31:30
So, but you asked me, so I'll, I will tell you they're just
31:33
amazing. So if you're in the corporate
31:35
media, you get these huge ad campaigns for Madison Ave. that
31:38
are, you know, crazy financial levels.
31:42
And if you're an independent, they're not doing business with
31:46
you. If you're in the corporate
31:48
media, you get all the big social platforms eager to work
31:51
with you, eager to put you in their beta programs and test new
31:54
things with you, constantly helping you optimize your
31:56
website. You do not get that if you're on
31:59
the independent side, there's very little of that.
32:03
And what you get instead is, you know, constant attacks.
32:06
So it's difficult. It's just difficult, but it
32:10
makes it all the more fulfilling because it's needed.
32:13
People want it. So through all these obstacles,
32:15
people are still finding a way to come to sites like Daily
32:18
Caller, certainly to find to, to watch Tucker show.
32:21
And we're growing and the rest of the media shrinking.
32:23
So it is working. But they definitely put up as
32:26
many obstacles as they can to try to knock you down.
32:29
Well, thank you for what you do. Is there are there any last
32:31
words you want to share with our audience?
32:33
No, man, it's great. Yeah.
32:33
I've heard great things about you.
32:35
We have some common friends, especially Elizabeth.
32:37
And she she was like, yeah, you have to go on a show if she
32:40
asks. So I'm I'm glad we were able to
32:42
do this. That's really sweeter.
32:44
And no, I don't. I don't think anything else that
32:46
seemed great. Well, to the virtuous leaders
32:50
audience, you've heard a truth speaker here, Neil Patel, who's
32:53
also a hustler entrepreneur. That's really the the core
32:57
audience here for this for this podcast.
33:00
And I want to just highlight one thing he said, which is that
33:02
there is a cultural and religious resurgence where where
33:06
sin abounds, grace abounds all the more.
33:08
So let's take hope in that. And even if it takes suffering
33:13
in this life, risking our lives and livelihood, let's keep
33:16
moving forward. That's how we'll be happier.
33:18
So thank you, Neil. Thank you.