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Why 100% Funded Deals Are Risky w/ Private Lender Jeff Cichocki · Real Estate Investing with RealDealCrew

• 0:00
  Most investors think a hundred percent funded deal is a dream.
• 0:04
  Jeff Chahuski says it's actually the riskiest position you can be
• 0:09
  in and it's draining private lenders right now.
• 0:12
  Jeff has closed over 2,000 deals as a lender and coach.
• 0:15
  Today he breaks down why skin in the game builds real credibility.
• 0:21
  The one question your lender wishes you'd ask,
• 0:24
  and the mortgage fraud red flag most investors don't see coming.
• 0:29
  Build the systems behind your investing business at realdealcrew dot com.
• 0:35
  Let's get started.
• 0:41
  Jeff Shahusky joins me here today and you can learn what he can help you with
• 0:46
  in two aspects. One is if you're looking for some funding on your opportunities
• 0:51
  and deals, head over to bestreifunding.com.
• 0:55
  However, if you're looking on wanting to learn how to become a a funder
• 1:02
  My REI coach dot com that's gonna slash trial.
• 1:05
  That's gonna be a clickable link in the show notes.
• 1:07
  But what's really cool is that if you use that dot that slash trial,
• 1:12
  you can get the first month for a single dollar.
• 1:15
  I really appreciate your time here today,
• 1:17
  Jeff.
• 1:18
  Yeah, absolutely. It's my honor to privilege to be here.
• 1:21
  So you before we hit record here,
• 1:23
  you mentioned you're been involved with over two thousand transactions
• 1:28
  at this point. What did the very first deal that got you into real estate finance
• 1:34
  look like?
• 1:34
  Well, so, you know, we gotta go back to two thousand eight,
• 1:37
  which is actually when I started lending,
• 1:39
  right? The middle of in the middle of the crash,
• 1:41
  the world's fallen apart and I decide to start lending money to people.
• 1:44
  the reality was is that I was a full time dad,
• 1:47
  full time husband, and a full time employee,
• 1:49
  and and a full time real estate investor.
• 1:52
  The the amount of work that I was doing as a flipper was becoming
• 1:56
  so overwhelming that I really wasn't home at all anymore.
• 2:00
  And so I chose to scale my business back,
• 2:02
  which created a ton of extra private capital that I was no longer using.
• 2:06
  And so what got me into lending was I just happened to be at one of
• 2:10
  the local RIAs and I was talking to the guy that runs the RIA,
• 2:13
  because he and I were friends.
• 2:14
  And he I'm telling him about, you know,
• 2:16
  the fact that I'm scaling my business back.
• 2:18
  He's talking about scaling his business up.
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  All of his private lenders are tapped out for cash and he doesn't know
• 2:24
  how he's gonna fund the next deal.
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  And so
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  I just said, well, let me see if my lenders will work with you.
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  You know, they know me, not you,
• 2:31
  but let me see what I can do. And in the end,
• 2:33
  I I got somebody to work with me and help him get that funding done.
• 2:38
  And you know, it really wasn't a business at the point.
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  It was really just me helping a friend.
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  But
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  You know, as things go, once you help somebody and they f and others start
• 2:47
  to find out what you know and what you can do,
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  other people come and start asking for help too.
• 2:51
  So over time more real estate investors came and over time more private lenders came
• 2:57
  to work through me and have me do their underwriting and all that kind
• 3:00
  of stuff and you know, hence a lending company got born by accident.
• 3:04
  Yeah, it's usually where the best businesses start,
• 3:07
  isn't it? Is that you're just kind of solving trying to solve your own problem
• 3:11
  or or somebody else's?
• 3:13
  Yeah. I in my experience, yeah.
• 3:14
  Yeah. It's usually your own and or others.
• 3:17
  And and usually it's I I think sometimes it's a combination of both.
• 3:20
  Because most of us have friends that are,
• 3:22
  you know, in the same arena and playground as us.
• 3:25
  So we we tend to all have the same issues.
• 3:28
  You
• 3:28
  started this in two thousand eight,
• 3:29
  I would imagine you've had some significant lessons along the way to
• 3:34
  the point where you've you felt the need to even branch into the coaching world.
• 3:38
  What was some of those early lessons that you wish you would have known ahead
• 3:44
  of time?
• 3:44
  Well, you know, I I will say this.
• 3:46
  The vast majority of my experience in the real estate space,
• 3:50
  the the bad experiences come really from bad coaches and bad gurus
• 3:55
  in the market that are really fantastic marketers.
• 3:58
  But they themselves haven't really lived through the ups and downs.
• 4:02
  Right? Now I started real estate in 2004.
• 4:05
  So I was flipping houses before the market crashed.
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  So I lived through 2008. and because of those ups and downs,
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  I just I have a set of experience and and I'm a really common sense-oriented,
• 4:16
  very strategic, kind of calculated guy.
• 4:19
  I I do things common sense-oriented.
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  So when I watch and see what the other gurus teach people how to do
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  and honestly how unethical an awful lot of it is,
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  those people keep coming to me and asking me for loans.
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  And I've had to turn away so many loans because the deals just really weren't that
• 4:37
  good. Or the deal structure just really was so improper.
• 4:41
  that you know, I I again started helping friends.
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  You know, it's like because I got to know a lot of our borrowers
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  and and really every single borrower call turned into a coaching call.
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  And so we just formalized it.
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  And just said, you know what, listen,
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  we're gonna do a call once a week,
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  you know. If you have questions,
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  if you're working a deal, if you need help figuring out the the structure,
• 5:03
  if you need you know, and and I'm not an attorney,
• 5:05
  but there's still some legal guidance,
• 5:08
  you know, as far as where to turn,
• 5:10
  how to do it, what kinds of structures that you need for things,
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  that's the stuff that I started just working with and teaching people how to do.
• 5:18
  You know, makes them better borrowers for everybody,
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  not just me.
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  Yeah, I would imagine that a lot of the people that are in your coaching program
• 5:25
  are eventually become there's a lot of crossover there looking for funding
• 5:30
  in the end.
• 5:30
  Well, so the truth is most of my students actually end up outgrowing
• 5:35
  the lending company that we have,
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  which i is a good thing. And I even tell students when they come into
• 5:40
  my coaching program, it's like,
• 5:41
  My goal is to get you to outgrow me.
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  you know, I I want you to get to a point where you don't need my services,
• 5:48
  that you start to become more self-sustained and and you really become
• 5:52
  a much more well-rounded business in whatever it is that you're gonna tackle and do.
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  That doesn't mean you never need hard money,
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  it doesn't mean you don't need private money,
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  it doesn't mean that you don't continue to need coaching and guidance.
• 6:04
  It just means that you've gotten to a point where you need something different
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  because your business grew and evolved.
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  Because we as people grow and evolve every single time we learn something
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  new and we have some successes and failures.
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  So my goal is really to help people figure out how to do a lot of this stuff.
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  So they still use us, they just don't use us as much.
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  Because in the end, I've also taught them how to work with their
• 6:27
  own private lenders.
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  you know, and and end up with a little bit more flexible terms than what
• 6:32
  I refer to as the professional lenders because that's where y you know,
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  even me when I'm working with private lender capital,
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  I'm still running it as a professional business and I have a set
• 6:42
  of guidelines I have to follow to protect the capital.
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  So it it it it's really about trying to elevate them above and beyond y you know,
• 6:50
  where they're at.
• 6:52
  Well,
• 6:52
  you mentioned that in some cases you're you're getting a lot of deals thrown at you.
• 6:58
  frankly, unfortunately trained on some bad advice or bad coaching.
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  There's likely some low
• 7:04
  Well yeah.
• 7:05
  hanging fruit there. What are some of the recurring things that you just would like
• 7:10
  to myths you'd like to bust right now or or set the record straight
• 7:13
  on some things that you're seeing some of these coaches provide?
• 7:17
  So there's some advice that is both good and bad simultaneously.
• 7:21
  And I think that's the most misleading information that's out in the market.
• 7:25
  gurus who are selling courses and boot camps and all that stuff,
• 7:28
  they love to tout, you know, go find private capital.
• 7:31
  You can get a hundred percent of all your money,
• 7:34
  right? You don't need anything anywhere,
• 7:36
  anytime in the deals.
• 7:38
  It it's it is the ideal scenario and it is possible to do in the marketplace,
• 7:43
  but it's not easy like most people seem to think that it is.
• 7:47
  That's a lot harder. As soon as anybody gets any education as a lender,
• 7:52
  they start to question: well, how what do you have in the deal?
• 7:56
  Why don't you have anything in the deal?
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  Because if a lender provides a hundred percent of all the funding,
• 8:01
  they actually have a hundred percent of the risk in the deal.
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  And in today's market with high interest rates,
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  we're actually starting it's not the same as two thousand and eight.
• 8:10
  We're we're not collapsing and falling apart by any stretch.
• 8:13
  But because of the interest rate hikes
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  Private lenders are losing money left and right across this country right now.
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  Drives me nuts to see them do it.
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  And as much as real estate investors really don't want to hear this,
• 8:26
  having skin in the game is what levels the playing field.
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  It's what builds credibility with your lenders.
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  It's what builds confidence. It shows that you're willing to take risks yourself
• 8:37
  and that you truly believe in what you have.
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  Now
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  With all that said, I get it. There's an awful lot of people that don't have
• 8:44
  any money. And that's part of why they're,
• 8:46
  you know, looking for that 100% down stuff.
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  A better scenario is to partner with people.
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  Find someone with a smaller amount of money that you can partner with
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  so that there's still a vested interest in the deal.
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  That brings so much confidence to these things.
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  And so while that's a half-truth,
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  it it really is a major negative.
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  in the industry. the sub-2 space has gotten almost out of hand,
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  as is the wholesaling industry.
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  and if you doubt it, all you have to do is just start looking across
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  the country to see what the what the states have been passing
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  for legislation to limit and restrict wholesalers.
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  It's because the industry has become very unethical in the way that
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  it behaves because of all this no money,
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  no money, no money, you just get to go make money mentality.
• 9:31
  Yes, it's true, but there's always negative sides to all of these things,
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  right? It's like when I'm sitting down coaching people and working with
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  our borrowers, this is the kind of stuff I'm trying to work with them.
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  Like I'm trying to show them that there are better ways to do it that
• 9:46
  are so much better, that it's better for you as the real estate investor,
• 9:51
  and it's better for your partner,
• 9:53
  it's better for your lender, it's a better structure and scenario.
• 9:56
  You're more likely to win the game.
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  And that in the end.
• 9:59
  is what we're all here for. Right?
• 10:01
  I mean nobody likes to lose, but the reality is good people still lose every once
• 10:05
  in a while. But if we can do things better,
• 10:07
  the losses become small instead of devastation.
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  Because that's what happened in 2008.
• 10:13
  The market was devastated. We don't have to repeat that.
• 10:16
  Just a few smart moves and we can overcome some of the fallacies that
• 10:20
  are taught in the marketplace and really build solid businesses.
• 10:24
  Yeah,
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  you actually called this out too,
• 10:26
  like early on is that you started this in two thousand eight.
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  Everybody was kind of running in the opposite direction that you decided to go.
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  Like what made you f confident that this was a smart move at the time?
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  Well, so part of it is just my natural personality.
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  I tend to be a contrarian, right?
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  But to me, the contrarian aspect of my personality just comes from
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  the common sense part of things.
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  Like even Warren Buffett said,
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  right? When there's blood in the streets,
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  that's the best time for opportunity.
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  When everybody runs in one direction,
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  you should go in the other. Because the masses are usually chasing things.
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  And every time everybody takes off chasing something,
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  They leave things behind. And what gets left behind is essentially
• 11:08
  a wide open playing field to go do things.
• 11:11
  Right? So it's not about necessarily trying to contradict everything that's
• 11:15
  out there as much as just look at those opportunities.
• 11:17
  In 2008, everybody was running from lending.
• 11:20
  Everybody was running from real estate.
• 11:22
  But yet every bad thing that happens,
• 11:24
  there's always something good that can come from it.
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  It's just a matter of whether or not we can recognize it.
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  I'm not the smartest guy in the world.
• 11:31
  I don't know everything that there is to know,
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  but I am really good at spotting opportunities.
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  And I'm really good at asking questions.
• 11:38
  And I've also gotten a lot better at asking for help.
• 11:40
  Right? So when I see something,
• 11:42
  even if I don't fully understand it,
• 11:44
  I kind of know where to at least go look and start asking questions to find out,
• 11:49
  can I do this?
• 11:50
  That's how lending happened, right?
• 11:52
  I didn't set out to try to lend.
• 11:53
  I wasn't really trying to go in the other direction.
• 11:56
  It's just because everybody was running away and people's money was drying up,
• 12:00
  there was an opportunity to be had.
• 12:02
  And we could help investors. Because people always need a place to live.
• 12:06
  No matter what happens in the economy,
• 12:08
  people need a good home to live in.
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  That's the thing I love the most about our industry.
• 12:13
  We provide solutions to all of these bad houses and bad situations.
• 12:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:20
  Well, you you mentioned here now that it's it's it's all about asking
• 12:24
  the right questions. I think this would be beneficial for those that
• 12:28
  are trying to get into wholesaling,
• 12:29
  fit fix and flipping or what have you,
• 12:31
  but more importantly, lenders,
• 12:34
  what questions should they be asking to ensure that it's a c a right deal?
• 12:40
  Well, okay, so I'll I'm gonna I'm gonna tell everybody there there's
• 12:44
  two things that I would go in.
• 12:46
  They're in two different directions,
• 12:48
  right? So there's one for the real estate investor.
• 12:51
  There's a set of answers for that.
• 12:52
  The answers for the real estate investor is number one,
• 12:56
  there is a ton of really, really bad information.
• 12:59
  I don't care what website you go to,
• 13:01
  I don't care what YouTube channel you're watching,
• 13:03
  there's bad information. Now it doesn't mean there's bad information from everybody,
• 13:07
  but if you stop and pause and reflect and do some research on something that sounds
• 13:13
  good, doesn't have to sound too good to be true,
• 13:15
  it just has to sound good. Go check it out.
• 13:17
  The flaw with Google, the flaw with ChatGPT and Claude and every other
• 13:23
  AI platform out there is when you ask a question,
• 13:26
  they are all designed to give you an answer that supports the question.
• 13:31
  So if you don't ask the opposite question at the same time,
• 13:35
  you only get half the answer.
• 13:38
  So if you're a real estate investor,
• 13:40
  you have to learn to ask better questions.
• 13:42
  You gotta learn how to communicate better with sellers.
• 13:45
  You gotta understand that you're there to solve their problem.
• 13:48
  You're not there to buy a house,
• 13:49
  which unfortunately that's what all the gurus teach,
• 13:51
  right? It's like you're there to buy houses.
• 13:53
  The reality is if you solve the seller's problem,
• 13:55
  you will buy more houses. Period.
• 13:57
  End of story. It it's an attitude adjustment and a purpose adjustment.
• 14:01
  And it makes you 10 times more successful.
• 14:04
  I'm a huge believer in Chris Voss.
• 14:07
  My natural question asking is actually very similar to his style.
• 14:11
  Like I love Chris Voss's book,
• 14:13
  you know, Never Split the Difference.
• 14:14
  Even more importantly, I love jumping onto YouTube.
• 14:18
  And going to watch his shorts because in two minutes or less,
• 14:22
  he'll give a real live example of some of the things that are in the books.
• 14:25
  And so if you're a real estate investor,
• 14:28
  learn to ask opposite questions,
• 14:30
  because that'll get you to the better questions,
• 14:32
  and go study Chris Voss. Now, if you want to know how to communicate with lenders,
• 14:36
  stop calling us up and asking us what the interest rate and points are,
• 14:39
  and having that as your only two questions.
• 14:42
  The hard money lending industry,
• 14:44
  private money lending industry,
• 14:46
  it's so misunderstood by borrowers,
• 14:48
  it's almost scary. And yet, money is one of the most important tools that
• 14:53
  you need in your arsenal in order to close on the houses that
• 14:56
  you get under contract, right?
• 14:58
  And everybody's trying to be cheap.
• 15:00
  And while I completely understand that,
• 15:02
  because it is each and every one of our responsibilities to succeed and
• 15:07
  to do better and to be smart and financially savvy with the funds and money that
• 15:11
  we have so that we can better take care of our families,
• 15:14
  we tend to trip over trip over dollars to pick up pennies,
• 15:18
  is is what we tend to do.
• 15:20
  In the hard money lending space,
• 15:21
  you have to understand that there are fees in the front end,
• 15:24
  there's fees in the middle, there's fees on the back end,
• 15:26
  there's fees for being late, there's fees for extending,
• 15:29
  there's fees for draws. Like we have fees everywhere.
• 15:32
  Like that's just the industry.
• 15:34
  And it sucks to say, because I'm part of that industry.
• 15:36
  I try not to do those things. And I want to make a fair and honest loan
• 15:40
  and living doing it. But as an industry,
• 15:43
  you have to be very, very careful.
• 15:45
  And so when you're talking to a lender,
• 15:47
  you need to start exploring what are the other things.
• 15:51
  Not just what's your interest rate and what's your points.
• 15:54
  I have I have a client, and this is an absolutely true story,
• 15:58
  and this is going to be a little shocking to some people to hear this.
• 16:00
  I have a client who was working with Kiavi,
• 16:04
  and she was getting loans at 8% and one point.
• 16:07
  And she was getting extremely frustrated with them.
• 16:09
  So she sat down and called me up and asked me if I would lend her some money
• 16:14
  and actually refinance her out of a Kiavi loan.
• 16:17
  And I told her I was gonna charge her twelve percent and three points in order
• 16:20
  to do it. And I had really almost no other fees at the time to for
• 16:24
  her to contend with. And she said,
• 16:25
  seriously. And I said, Yeah. And the two of us were exploring things.
• 16:29
  Now, this is the truth is, I had never compared the cheaper national hard money
• 16:34
  to my more expensive private capital.
• 16:37
  I'd never compared the two before.
• 16:38
  But with her, when the two of us went through it,
• 16:41
  we both discovered at the same time 12 and 3 was cheaper than 8 and 1.
• 16:46
  And the reason was you've got so many other fees that are not considered points just
• 16:51
  at the closing table. You've got
• 16:53
  Delays on draws, you've got big inspection fees,
• 16:57
  you've got big draw fees, there are payoff fees.
• 17:00
  When we compared all the fees that she was paying and converted
• 17:03
  all these things into dollars and added them all up,
• 17:06
  her total cost with me at 12% interest plus three points,
• 17:10
  total dollars was less than what she was paying Kiavi at eight and
• 17:14
  one because of all the other fees.
• 17:16
  So when you deal with lenders,
• 17:18
  you gotta start asking better questions there,
• 17:20
  which means dig deeper, find out what do we charge?
• 17:23
  Where do we charge? When do we charge?
• 17:26
  How much comes out of your pocket versus how much comes out of,
• 17:29
  say, your draw bucket? Right? Like,
• 17:31
  how do you have to pay for it?
• 17:33
  there's a hard money lender that's here in my state,
• 17:36
  another horrible example, but yet true.
• 17:39
  Another client came to us and asked us to refinance them out of
• 17:41
  a loan because they'd been in the loan and it was maturing and she still wasn't done
• 17:45
  with the project for some reason.
• 17:47
  I I I through everything I kind of got the impression that she
• 17:50
  had problems with contractors and all that kind of fun stuff and they were just
• 17:53
  behind. But the project financially was still a very good deal.
• 17:57
  She had bought it very, very well.
• 17:59
  But she sent me the settlement statement,
• 18:02
  the payoff letter from the other lender.
• 18:04
  They charged her eight points for her extension fee.
• 18:08
  Eight points. It was thirty-six thousand dollars worth of extension fee that
• 18:12
  we had to that we covered for her as part of our new loan.
• 18:15
  But can you imagine that that's all profit that that's no longer in
• 18:19
  her in her pocket? It's now in a different lender's pocket because
• 18:22
  she didn't understand.
• 18:24
  how we make money and how we charge.
• 18:26
  So that's my two things. It's like,
• 18:28
  you know, one for real estate investors,
• 18:30
  one for one for the borrowing with lender side.
• 18:32
  Just to remind everybody, we're talking to Jeff Shawhusky,
• 18:36
  and you can learn more at bestareifunding.com.
• 18:42
  If you want to learn how to do all of this,
• 18:44
  myreicoach.com slash trial.
• 18:48
  Take advantage of that one dollar offer there.
• 18:51
  If you found some value in what we're chatting about so far,
• 18:54
  do us a quick favor, share this with one of your friends.
• 18:57
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• 18:59
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• 19:00
  So,
• 19:01
  Jeff, I I'm hoping that we could spend a little time talking about some
• 19:06
  of the trials and tribulations that you've gone through and some
• 19:09
  of those hard lessons that were learned.
• 19:11
  can you talk a little bit about that and and how it might have impact
• 19:16
  or changed your business or trajectory?
• 19:18
  sure. there there's two sides,
• 19:20
  obviously, right? Because as because I've I'm both a real estate investor
• 19:24
  and a lender, right? So there's there's horror stories on both sides,
• 19:27
  there's good, amazing things that have happened in both sides.
• 19:30
  the best the best thing I ever learned on the real estate investor side.
• 19:35
  was when someone sat me down, I I I ended up going to some boot camps myself from
• 19:41
  some guys that I I got involved with that they there's no upsells at
• 19:45
  any of their events. No coaching,
• 19:47
  no courses, there's nothing for the UD up.
• 19:50
  It's just content, education, and some networking opportunities.
• 19:54
  And they're like five, six hundred dollars for an entire weekend,
• 19:56
  which is super cheap and unheard of.
• 19:59
  So I get involved with these guys.
• 20:01
  And I got to know one of one of the guys that puts on the events,
• 20:04
  and his name is Bill. And Bill sat me down one day and explained to me that
• 20:08
  sub two is not creative finance.
• 20:10
  Seller finance, not creative finance.
• 20:12
  Master leases, not creative finance,
• 20:14
  lease options, not creative finance.
• 20:17
  These are all in fact just buying strategies.
• 20:21
  And the reason that they're just buying strategies is because you tend
• 20:24
  to repeat the process almost the exact same time every time.
• 20:27
  Sure, there are subtle differences between each and every deal you do,
• 20:30
  because it's a different seller and a different house,
• 20:32
  but the overall structure is identical every time you do it.
• 20:35
  It's just that the gurus put them all together underneath
• 20:38
  the creative finance umbrella because it was sexy and it sold.
• 20:42
  And I said, well, Bill, then what the heck is creative finance?
• 20:47
  and you know, and creative deal structuring.
• 20:48
  And he said that's when you learn all of the buying strategies and you're able
• 20:52
  to sit down with a seller to solve their problem and borrow pieces from different
• 20:58
  strategies and essentially build a new one on the fly that solves
• 21:02
  the seller's problem. When you do that,
• 21:04
  that's why you buy more houses.
• 21:06
  And so
• 21:07
  is one of the most positive, influential things anybody's ever said to
• 21:11
  me is to learn how to stack things together.
• 21:15
  And so when I when I'm working on deals and projects and even as a lender
• 21:19
  and I'm talking to a borrower,
• 21:21
  matter of fact, right before we jumped on this podcast,
• 21:23
  I was talking to a borrower. And and she's a student of a friend of mine,
• 21:27
  and so I was I was having more a coaching call with her than than lender call.
• 21:32
  she's interested in she just bought a house sub two.
• 21:35
  Her plan is to stick some money in the deal and then she's gonna hold
• 21:39
  it because she's gonna sell it on lease option.
• 21:41
  And I said, well, you know, tell me about all the stuff going on in the deal.
• 21:44
  And after she told me all the moving parts to exactly what she had structured,
• 21:48
  I was just like, W have you thought about this or this or this?
• 21:51
  Right? Like just trying to challenge a few things.
• 21:53
  And I said, here's why I if I was you,
• 21:56
  I would I would consider tweaking these things because number one,
• 22:00
  your deal's very complicated. It it it's gonna be difficult for anybody
• 22:04
  to wanna fund you. Because it's too complicated,
• 22:06
  there's too many moving parts.
• 22:07
  And and I also said to her, I said,
• 22:09
  you know, 80% of of lease options fail.
• 22:11
  So your your likelihood of getting this thing back is very,
• 22:14
  very high. And you need to be in a position where you can afford that.
• 22:18
  And she's still very new and doesn't have a lot of capital that she
• 22:21
  can invest in projects. And so I started helping her tweak that scenario
• 22:26
  by simplifying but also stacking strategies differently than the way
• 22:30
  she was doing it.
• 22:32
  I just helped a student of mine.
• 22:34
  he was trying to buy a house that the seller had co-signed on a loan
• 22:39
  for someone else. And the someone else that he co-signed with,
• 22:42
  they failed. Whatever that was didn't work.
• 22:44
  And that person has no money and is uncollectible.
• 22:47
  So the lender is coming after him because of the personal guarantee.
• 22:51
  They end up winning the judgment and they got a lien placed against this house that
• 22:55
  he has, which was an investment property.
• 22:58
  And the lien is for thirty-two thousand dollars.
• 23:00
  And he doesn't want to pay the thirty-two thousand because it's not really his bill.
• 23:03
  And so we came up with a creative structure.
• 23:07
  mostly pretty straight out of the box,
• 23:09
  but we did modify a few things by leveraging a master lease so that
• 23:13
  we could lease the property from the seller,
• 23:15
  get all the benefits and all the rights and privileges of ownership without having
• 23:19
  to transfer the deed or pay the pay the f the lien off.
• 23:22
  Which the seller was thrilled that he could do it.
• 23:25
  No other real estate investor brought a solution that actually allowed
• 23:29
  him to not have to pay that lien.
• 23:31
  Right?
• 23:32
  On the lending side, I hate to say this,
• 23:34
  people lie. And that's probably the most difficult thing for all lenders
• 23:38
  is that people lie. The second worst thing is that bad things happen to good people.
• 23:42
  The majority of people don't lie.
• 23:44
  The majority of people are actually really good people.
• 23:46
  Occasionally we get a bad one.
• 23:48
  But bad things happen to good people,
• 23:50
  and bad things happen to good deals.
• 23:51
  And so the lack of preparation
• 23:54
  for egg multiple exit strategies is a struggle for lenders.
• 23:58
  It's also a struggle for the borrower.
• 23:59
  I'm actually working on a series on my Facebook profile that is
• 24:04
  the seven most common mistakes that that private money lenders make,
• 24:07
  and it ties both to borrowers and the lenders themselves.
• 24:10
  And one of the main topics is exit strategies.
• 24:14
  Because they're not working today the same way they did six months
• 24:17
  ago or twelve months ago. The DSCR lenders are not closing loans as quick
• 24:22
  and as fast as they used to. Hard money lenders are saying yes,
• 24:25
  yes, yes, yes, yes, and then pulling funds,
• 24:27
  you know, at the eleventh hour.
• 24:29
  Same thing. And and lots and lots of real estate investors are getting burnt across
• 24:33
  the country because the exit strategies when they get to the point
• 24:37
  of making the underwriting decisions.
• 24:39
  They're finding the exit strategies are too weak for the for
• 24:42
  the current market conditions.
• 24:43
  There just isn't enough meat on the bone.
• 24:45
  And so you know, lenders are getting hurt by not being able to fund deals,
• 24:49
  and borrowers are getting hurt because they can't close deals and they can't
• 24:52
  get out of deals. Right? It's because it's both.
• 24:55
  They're turning down deals where you might do a flip because they don't think
• 24:58
  you can get out of it, even if it's a good deal.
• 25:00
  You know, there there I mean there's literally story after story after story that
• 25:05
  y you know, we could spend all day literally talking about all the stuff that has
• 25:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:09
  happened to me, that's happened to my friends,
• 25:11
  that's happened to our clients.
• 25:13
  You know, it it it's happening all over the place.
• 25:15
  there's answers to it all. It just takes more work and more thought.
• 25:18
  I I'd be curious, based on what you said there,
• 25:21
  you know, you mentioned that some borrowers they just simply lie.
• 25:24
  Is it is it lying or or do you find like a subset of those where it's just they come
• 25:31
  out of this guru boot boot camps,
• 25:33
  they're just over positive, over over confident,
• 25:37
  and they're just they've just kind of actually lied to themselves about what
• 25:42
  a good deal looks like.
• 25:44
  i it tends to be a blend of both.
• 25:46
  I mean, no matter what industry you're in,
• 25:48
  right? This doesn't even have anything to do with real estate.
• 25:50
  There's just dishonest people in the world.
• 25:52
  Now in the grand scheme of things,
• 25:53
  truly dishonest people, that's the smallest percentage of people that we have.
• 25:58
  The majority of people that that do lie on the deals are doing it because
• 26:03
  the the guru that they talked to,
• 26:05
  the YouTube video they watched,
• 26:07
  right, the Facebook post, the bigger pockets thing that they saw,
• 26:11
  it tells them to do it one way.
• 26:13
  And in the reality, it it's flat out wrong to do.
• 26:16
  Sometimes it's just flat out unethical.
• 26:18
  And if it gets spotted, nobody wants to lend to you,
• 26:21
  nobody wants to partner with you if they know it's unethical.
• 26:23
  The problem with human beings,
• 26:24
  though, is that once we believe something,
• 26:26
  we do not want to change our minds.
• 26:28
  Every single one of us is very,
• 26:30
  very stubborn when it comes to someone trying to change our beliefs
• 26:34
  and tell us we're wrong when we believe we're wrong,
• 26:36
  no matter what it is. I get people that bring deals to me that tell me
• 26:41
  all kinds of things. It's mortgage fraud.
• 26:43
  And it's like, I can't, I can't even begin to participate in this deal.
• 26:46
  And
• 26:47
  you know, there there's one particular strategy that's taught out there
• 26:51
  and it it really wasn't very popular,
• 26:53
  but it's getting more and more popular by the day,
• 26:56
  and it is blatant mortgage fraud.
• 26:58
  and and it has to do with essentially creating a deal one way just so that
• 27:04
  you can trick the lender to redo it right after closing.
• 27:08
  You you cannot deceive a lender.
• 27:10
  That's federal mortgage fraud.
• 27:11
  That that includes private lenders.
• 27:14
  Like if you lie, cheat, steal,
• 27:16
  manipulate things that would have any impact on a lender's decision,
• 27:21
  pretty much consider it mortgage fraud if you're withholding something from them.
• 27:24
  and and it's pretty serious because it's orange jumpsuit level,
• 27:27
  not not local state level stuff.
• 27:30
  This is federal things.
• 27:31
  The the sad thing is that it's happening more and more.
• 27:34
  And because, you know, government is limited in what it can and can't do
• 27:38
  as far as resources to protect us,
• 27:40
  more and more people are getting away with it.
• 27:41
  But like anything, it just it all catches up with you.
• 27:44
  You know, bad things will catch up to you.
• 27:46
  You get away with it today. That's to me,
• 27:48
  that's one of the worst
• 27:49
  things. a real estate investor got lied to.
• 27:52
  They inadvertently lie to the lender by accident because they actually just don't
• 27:57
  know any better. It's not even their fault.
• 27:59
  And then they get busted for something in five years from now.
• 28:02
  You know, and the guru never goes to jail because the guru didn't
• 28:05
  do the transaction. Like you can't really go to jail for telling somebody
• 28:09
  how to do something. It it unfortunately that's not how the laws work.
• 28:13
  And so they get away with it. And then we as consumers continue to pay them tons
• 28:17
  and tons of money to be parts of their programs and yet we're being
• 28:21
  led down bad paths.
• 28:22
  Does this particular strategy actually have a name?
• 28:24
  It does. I just try not to mention the name because if I tell you the name
• 28:27
  of the strategy, it tells you the name of the guru who pitches it because
• 28:31
  it it's his name is in it. If that at least helps people identify it.
• 28:36
  Sure.
• 28:39
  Is that people just frankly don't want
• 28:45
  to change their mind. We get kind of stubborn,
• 28:48
  ~ dig in our heels.
• 28:48
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 28:50
  This this is especially true in in like you know,
• 28:53
  we maybe this is part of the Chris Voss thing.
• 28:55
  I'm a I'm a big fan as well. In fact,
• 28:57
  I try to read that book once a year.
• 28:59
  that's that's one of those
• 29:00
  Yeah.
• 29:01
  r regular rotations.
• 29:03
  When you present something that that shakes their paradigm,
• 29:08
  not only do they want to dig in their heels,
• 29:11
  it can actually become a bit violent in in regards to that,
• 29:15
  the because of the level of defense that you experience.
• 29:17
  Yeah.
• 29:19
  That's where the where I found that some of those strategies that Chris teaches
• 29:24
  really helps break through some of those because when I talk
• 29:28
  to distressed homeowners,
• 29:29
  Tremendous.
• 29:29
  many of these situations are
• 29:32
  are strategies or topics or realizations that they haven't verbalized even
• 29:38
  themselves up until now.
• 29:40
  Yeah. I'm I a hundred percent agree with everything that you just said.
• 29:43
  the one of the one of the things that that I have found helpful when someone says
• 29:48
  something that I just flat out know is wrong,
• 29:51
  difficult, almost impossible to do,
• 29:53
  is I just simply ask them like how how how can I do that?
• 29:57
  Like that that's literally my question.
• 29:59
  It's like
• 29:59
  you know, I'm not sure about it.
• 30:01
  Could you tell me how you think I could get how I could get that done?
• 30:04
  And I make them solve the problem.
• 30:06
  And when you do that, a lot of times the flaws and holes in the belief start
• 30:11
  to become very, very evident to the person who believes them because they can't
• 30:15
  solve the problem. Right? It's just an idea that they want because it's
• 30:20
  unfortunately an emotional thought,
• 30:22
  not a real thought.
• 30:23
  And so they feel certain ways.
• 30:25
  That's why when you try to solve the problem,
• 30:28
  it it becomes evident, especially if you make them solve it for you.
• 30:31
  it's one of the things that I do when I try to talk to people is I really
• 30:34
  try to help them help themselves as much as possible.
• 30:37
  And and you're right, learning to speak and ask questions the way that Chris kind
• 30:41
  of teaches things.
• 30:42
  it's so natural the way that he does it.
• 30:45
  The the the words, the phrasing,
• 30:47
  the way that it happens, it's so natural.
• 30:50
  No one has any idea that you're influencing them in any way.
• 30:54
  Nobody has any idea that you're leading them towards a good path,
• 30:58
  right?
• 30:59
  And and you can put them in a position where they will help you
• 31:02
  to solve the problem. And when it's something difficult,
• 31:05
  you ask them to help you solve it point blank and they'll realize it can't be done.
• 31:09
  And you end up with ten times better solutions.
• 31:11
  It's a it's a very, very powerful,
• 31:14
  powerful strategy. I I had the luxury of actually getting to go to
• 31:19
  a private Chris Voss training event for two days.
• 31:22
  I'm part of a of a of a mastermind and the the people that put it
• 31:26
  on actually hired Chris to come in to our mastermind for two of our three day event.
• 31:31
  And so he gave our small group a a a private session.
• 31:35
  And it was it was insane to to literally sit with him.
• 31:39
  And that's when I got hooked on his shorts and videos that he's got on YouTube.
• 31:43
  Because it's it's my way of getting that that live refresher from the course I took.
• 31:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:49
  Yeah. You can simply pick up that level of knowledge for twenty dollars
• 31:51
  or whatever it is. It's like it's it's almost silly to me.
• 31:55
  Yeah. And you know, somebody gave me some advice about reading books and
• 31:59
  I and I took it to heart. it's common knowledge out there that like
• 32:02
  the top executives in the country read fifty books a year,
• 32:05
  right? That's kind of the magic number everybody taughts,
• 32:07
  which is a book a a book a week.
• 32:09
  I had the the luxury and displeasure of working for an executive at one point
• 32:15
  in my career who believed in that and read a new book every week.
• 32:18
  And and I tell you that part of it because when someone else came along later
• 32:23
  and and gave me a different piece of advice about reading books,
• 32:26
  it made complete sense because of how I had lived my career under
• 32:30
  an executive who did read a new book every single week.
• 32:33
  And the flaw was is that every single Monday morning,
• 32:36
  because he would finish the book on the weekend,
• 32:38
  every single Monday morning, we as the team had a new set of directives that trumped
• 32:43
  last week's directives.
• 32:45
  And so we could never complete and execute the things that we wanted to do.
• 32:49
  So now you fast forward 15 years or whatever it is,
• 32:52
  and this other friend of mine is like,
• 32:54
  listen, you'd be better off to read five books ten times than to read
• 32:58
  ten to read fifty books once. Fifty books generates so many ideas in your head
• 33:03
  you can't execute.
• 33:05
  But like and and Chris Voss's book,
• 33:07
  Never Split the Difference, is one of my favorite books to just listen to.
• 33:11
  And I do a lot of them on audiobooks.
• 33:13
  But I will listen to the same book repeatedly right after itself.
• 33:17
  So I might listen to the book three times.
• 33:20
  And the reason is is because and and I know we've all experienced this.
• 33:23
  You go to the movies, you see a movie,
• 33:26
  and it's a fantastic movie, you love it.
• 33:28
  And then the very next time you're like,
• 33:29
  I want to see that movie again.
• 33:31
  So you do, you watch it. And what happens?
• 33:33
  You see new things in the movie that you didn't see the first time.
• 33:36
  That's the beauty of reading the same book multiple times.
• 33:40
  But it also keeps you on the same topic and allows you the time that's needed
• 33:44
  for you to formulate the strategies and execute the things that you want
• 33:48
  to do to move forward and be successful.
• 33:51
  And when I switch to reading five and and sometimes it's more than five books
• 33:54
  for in a year for me, because I'll like read a book and go,
• 33:57
  you know, I really didn't like this book and I'm not gonna read it ten times.
• 34:00
  And I'll substitute it for something else.
• 34:02
  So I might end up reading eight or nine books in a year,
• 34:04
  but I'll you know, four or five of them I'm gonna have listened to eight
• 34:07
  to ten times and and just
• 34:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:09
  ingrain it into my head.
• 34:11
  Yeah, I that's really important.
• 34:12
  In fact, this is kind of coincidence because I I'm in a couple
• 34:16
  of networking groups and and we've got onto this topic myself and I
• 34:20
  I actually told them that people would be better off reading
• 34:25
  or or going someplace, d some sort of training.
• 34:29
  Pull one or two things that you can implement and and deal with at a time.
• 34:34
  you know, you like you said, you can be inundated with a bunch of concepts.
• 34:39
  strategies and then you don't implement any of because it's just like
• 34:43
  an analysis paralysis. So it's it's best to just kinda eat
• 34:46
  Yeah, it's too overwhelming.
• 34:48
  this elephant one bite at a time.
• 34:49
  Yeah. So I've I've trained my team on the one,
• 34:52
  two, three process. And and I'm not gonna tell you that I invented this process
• 34:57
  by any stretch, but i I call it just the one two three process.
• 35:00
  We all have fifty things that we wanna get done,
• 35:03
  right?
• 35:04
  And of those fifty things, there can only be one that is number one.
• 35:08
  If you're one of those people that think I got five things,
• 35:11
  they're all number one, there's no such thing as number one for you.
• 35:14
  Because there can only be one,
• 35:15
  number one. When you have five number ones,
• 35:17
  you're in a position of chaos and overwhelm and nothing ever happens and gets done.
• 35:22
  So you have to pick one. And so I force my team,
• 35:24
  pick one. Then what's the second most important thing?
• 35:28
  Then what's the third most important thing?
• 35:30
  And this is why I call it the one,
• 35:31
  two, three. The other forty-seven,
• 35:33
  we put them aside. We don't look at them,
• 35:35
  we don't think about them, we don't consider them.
• 35:36
  We focus on number one.
• 35:39
  It gets a hundred percent of our attention until we can no longer move
• 35:44
  on number one. Like now I'm stuck and I'm waiting on someone else to
• 35:47
  do something or answer a question or for something I had to buy,
• 35:51
  I need to wait for it to show up.
• 35:52
  Right? Then I move to number two.
• 35:54
  Number two gets a hundred percent of my attention until I'm stuck again.
• 35:57
  Even if the answer for number one came back,
• 36:00
  I gotta finish number two. I have to stay focused.
• 36:03
  Then when I'm stuck on number two,
• 36:05
  then I go back and review number one and go,
• 36:07
  am I in a position that I can move number one again?
• 36:09
  If the answer is yes, you start doing number one again.
• 36:12
  If the answer is no, you go to number three.
• 36:14
  And you run that round robin on those three things,
• 36:17
  continuously checking to see which ones need to be done.
• 36:21
  You are so much more productive if you do that.
• 36:25
  I mean ten times more productive.
• 36:28
  I've known for a very long time that multitasking does not work.
• 36:32
  I've never been able to prove it.
• 36:33
  I've just believed it. Strange thing was is when I got into that two-day training
• 36:37
  with Chris Voss, he actually talked about multitasking because he was watching
• 36:42
  us in the room. Some of us are typing on our keyboards,
• 36:45
  some are taking notes on paper,
• 36:47
  right? We're all taking notes different ways.
• 36:49
  And he pointed out that handwriting,
• 36:51
  of course, is the best.
• 36:53
  Because when you type, it's multitasking.
• 36:56
  When your brain is focused on typing,
• 36:59
  you can't listen and type at the same time.
• 37:01
  It's almost impossible.
• 37:03
  Now, some people are better at it than others.
• 37:05
  You know, there's always exceptions to every rule to some extent.
• 37:08
  But he gave an example of how to prove that it doesn't work.
• 37:11
  And so he said, okay, what I want you to do is take out a piece of paper
• 37:15
  and a pen and I want you to write your name down.
• 37:17
  First and last name. Just spell it out.
• 37:19
  Right? So for me, J-E-F-F, we'll just stick with the first four letters because it's
• 37:23
  easier this way. And he said, okay,
• 37:25
  now that you've written down your first name,
• 37:26
  I want you to number them. One,
• 37:28
  two, three, four, right? Just put the number underneath it to count the letter.
• 37:32
  And you're like, okay, no problem.
• 37:34
  Every single person in the room does that super fast.
• 37:36
  He said, now I want you to write your name again,
• 37:39
  except I want you to number them as you go.
• 37:42
  So that means you have to write J1 E2 F3.
• 37:46
  And I'm good at it now because now I've done this enough times.
• 37:48
  But when I did it, I could it was so hard.
• 37:51
  Because the reality is multitasking doesn't work.
• 37:54
  What we're really doing is task switching.
• 37:58
  And that's what he demonstrated in that example,
• 38:00
  because when you have to switch,
• 38:01
  you keep losing track of where you are and 'cause you're jumping from
• 38:04
  one thing to the next. And that's what makes it so ineffective.
• 38:08
  And it was when I went to that boot camp and and spent those two days with Chris
• 38:13
  Voss that I came back to the office and demanded that everybody start following
• 38:17
  the one, two, three process. Like you can only work on one thing at a time.
• 38:20
  If I catch you working on two things at a time,
• 38:22
  it's like, you know, I'm gonna want to knock on your forehead and go,
• 38:25
  hello, McFly, are you home? And you know,
• 38:28
  straighten them out and put them back on the straight and narrow.
• 38:30
  But I will tell you, our team has become so much more effective and efficient.
• 38:33
  It's crazy since we adopted.
• 38:35
  Just crazy.
• 38:36
  Well, Jeff, like you said, we could probably keep talking all afternoon,
• 38:41
  but we probably should consider closing out this episode.
• 38:44
  Just to remind everybody, you can learn more at REI no best reifunding
• 38:51
  dot com and my REI coach dot com slash trial.
• 38:55
  But is there anything else we should have tried to hit on before we jump into
• 38:59
  the rapid fire?
• 39:00
  you know, the the craziest thing about my background,
• 39:02
  which most people in the industry out there,
• 39:04
  they know me as a lender. It's the it's the thing in the world that
• 39:07
  I'm the most famous for. you know,
• 39:09
  when I go to conferences and things,
• 39:11
  everybody always finds out that I'm a lender,
• 39:12
  and because money is such a big topic for everybody,
• 39:15
  that's the thing they tend to focus on with me.
• 39:17
  The reality is though, is as a lender and as an investor.
• 39:22
  I'm again I'm not gonna try to tell everybody that I know everything under the sun,
• 39:26
  but playing both sides of the coin at the same time and being someone active
• 39:30
  in both arenas, I have a well above average exposure to deals.
• 39:35
  What works, what doesn't work,
• 39:37
  and I and they're not all my deals.
• 39:39
  I you know, like a lot of the knowledge and things that I've gained is just from
• 39:43
  the experience of working so many deals with so many people.
• 39:46
  You know, the fact that I've closed over two thousand deals,
• 39:49
  imagine how many deals I haven't done and how many loans we've turned down over
• 39:53
  the years. But every single one that gets turned down,
• 39:56
  we have to analyze. And there are tens of thousands of deals that we have worked on.
• 40:00
  Tens of thousands.
• 40:01
  So, you know, i if people are interested in working with just someone with
• 40:05
  experience, you know, again, I'm not gonna claim that we're perfect
• 40:08
  and I'm not gonna you claim that I can solve every single problem under
• 40:12
  the sun known to mankind. But if you're looking with somebody,
• 40:14
  you know, with experience and somebody who truly wants to help and see you succeed,
• 40:18
  you know, then then that's really what I stand for.
• 40:22
  It's not just me being famous as a lender.
• 40:25
  It it's I really wanna see people succeed more than anything.
• 40:29
  Well, Jeff, we'll jump into the rapid fire and close out this episode.
• 40:33
  Sure. Fire away.
• 40:35
  First one is what
• 40:36
  lie do real estate investors often tell themselves?
• 40:39
  I I think the biggest lie that I hear is that I don't need any money to do anything.
• 40:43
  Because the truth is, even if you did wholesaling,
• 40:46
  even if you did do a flip or something and you could borrow a hundred percent
• 40:49
  of all that money, usually it takes money to do marketing and advertising
• 40:53
  and and other things. It does take some money to make money.
• 40:57
  Some.
• 40:58
  If you could go back in time and give your younger
• 41:00
  Vamos lá.
• 41:00
  self a piece of advice, what would it be?
• 41:03
  slow down. That would probably be my biggest thing for myself is slow down.
• 41:07
  it's way easier to make money than you think it is,
• 41:10
  but you're not there's no rush to get to the finish line.
• 41:13
  Because there's deals everywhere.
• 41:15
  Every single day in every single market,
• 41:17
  there are deals and opportunities.
• 41:19
  But when you're running at breakneck speed,
• 41:20
  you miss most of them.
• 41:21
  You're actually tripping over dollars to pick up pennies when
• 41:24
  you race around crazily. If you slow down and pay attention,
• 41:27
  you'll find fewer deals, but you will find better,
• 41:30
  higher quality, higher profit deals if you just slow down.
• 41:34
  And I and I wish I'd have learned that sooner.
• 41:38
  When you were building and scaling your business,
• 41:40
  what was your first hire or what were you trying to fix yourself?
• 41:43
  our first hire was actually in our flipping company.
• 41:47
  it wasn't in the lending company.
• 41:49
  The the first hire was actually a project manager because at at this point
• 41:53
  I also had a partner. I I don't have a partner anymore.
• 41:56
  he and I split up a couple years ago.
• 41:57
  It was very amicable. We're still friends today.
• 41:59
  It just we'd kind of outgrown the the path that we were on together because there's
• 42:03
  there's a significant age difference between the two of us and where
• 42:06
  our kids are at. but we hired a project manager to help us with all
• 42:10
  the flips that we were doing.
• 42:11
  The second hire that I made was in the lending company and it
• 42:14
  was an additional salesperson to actually help me deal with borrowers
• 42:18
  and get things closed because the volume was just getting to be too much.
• 42:21
  now, with that said, the smartest first hire I should have made,
• 42:25
  because I'm not going to tell you that even though those were my first hires,
• 42:28
  I'm not going to tell you that was the way I should have done it.
• 42:30
  A bookkeeper should have been my first hire.
• 42:33
  That should have been the first thing I did was to get the money straight.
• 42:36
  And then finally, what single tool or process have you implemented that
• 42:40
  has had the biggest time saving impact?
• 42:42
  I think if I think if anybody's not using AI today,
• 42:45
  it they're they're missing the boat.
• 42:46
  And and I will say that as a person who because I have a team,
• 42:50
  I'm I don't have to use AI every day,
• 42:52
  like a lot of people do that are smaller than me.
• 42:54
  but I will tell you that my team,
• 42:56
  one guy in particular, my team,
• 42:58
  exposed me to something in AI about two weeks ago that has literally changed
• 43:03
  my attitude towards how much I need and should be using it.
• 43:06
  and and he tapped me into some stuff that it it's crazy what I can do
• 43:10
  in so much less time. It's just crazy.
• 43:13
  Well, you'll have to come back and kinda go we'll can kinda deep dive on that,
• 43:16
  or maybe you can have him come on the show sometime and and he and I
• 43:20
  can nerd out because I don't know if you've looked into it,
• 43:23
  but if you or anybody that's listening to the show needs help implementing these
• 43:28
  type of tools, that's where I come in.
• 43:29
  So head over to real dealcrew dot com if you're looking to set up
• 43:34
  an automation or process in your real estate investing.
• 43:37
  Really appreciate your time, Jeff.
• 43:39
  this was fantastic. One last time.
• 43:42
  You can learn more at bestareifunding dot com or if you want to learn how
• 43:47
  to do this myrecoach dot com slash trial.
• 43:51
  Appreciate your time, Jeff, it was great to meet you and hope you'll consider coming
• 43:55
  back again real soon.
• 43:56
  it absolutely I would absolutely come back again and it was my privilege to be here.
• 43:59
  Well, just give it a