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That Friend Who Drains You: Are Energy Vampires Real? · High Five Hot Mess Podcast

• Lisa Wilson: We all have that one friend that when we see their name when they call us, we're kind of like, here we go, right? And they go on and on and on about all these horrible things that have been happening to them never once stopping to ask how you're feeling. And then when they're done, they're like, thank you so much for listening to me. I really appreciate it. And they are in the best mood of their lives and are filled with energy. And you meanwhile feel like you need to go lay down, maybe see an exorcist, so that makes us wonder, are energy vampires real? I don't know, but we definitely want to talk about it. Let's get into it. So we've been talking a lot about draining others when we're having tough times and like feeling Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: like we are being a burden to our friends, right? And then we've Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: talked about people who kind of drain us. Lisa S: Yes. Lisa Wilson: And we were like, Okay, are energy vampires real? Is that a real thing? Lisa S: Exactly. Lisa Wilson: So we're gonna do a little pop quiz about if we know are we experiencing An energy vampire. So if it's an energy vampire, that Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: means that it's a one-way street. Okay. They are all take and no give. Very similar to maybe like a narcissist, but you know, we'll just say that. Lisa S: Okay, fair. Lisa Wilson: the next one is no, they're just exhausting. Like, like it's it's Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: just that's their personality. They're not trying to drain me. And that's okay too. And then the third, is no man, this is my fault. It's me. Lisa S: You Lisa Wilson: I'm the problem here. Like they're not doing anything wrong. It's it's all me. So are you ready to play our game? Lisa S: I'm ready. Lisa Wilson: if you guys are listening, play along. And if you're watching, let us know. We'll send cards next time and we can all get in on this. All right. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: All right. So, first question. Your friend calls you crying because her life is falling apart. Again, you spend two hours talking her off the ledge. You give her advice. You check on her the next morning. Three days later, something genuinely awful happens to you. You call her and she's like, that's really bad, then immediately launches into a 20 minute story about her neighbor's divorce, just rolling right over you. But when you are going through your divorce and you needed wine at two AM, she was nowhere to be found. Is this person an energy vampire? It's just me, or are they just exhausting? Lisa S: I'm going to say exhausting. Lisa Wilson: Well, I think they're definitely exhausting, but they're all taken no give. So I'm gonna call them an energy vampire. Okay. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. But to me, I would say that it's exhausting because you're always going to continuously get the same thing. So, yeah, I can see both for sure. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, next one. Lisa S: Hmm Lisa Wilson: You're in a group chat with six women. Okay, I know three women, but let's just pretend. Buy the ticket, take Lisa S: Hehehehehe Lisa Wilson: the ride. So you're on a group chat with six women you've known for 20 years. Every morning Lisa S: Okay. Lisa Wilson: there are 47 messages, memes, grandchildren, somebody's weird rash, and an ongoing argument about brunch. So you just mute the chat Then you discover they all went to brunch and didn't bring you. You're so upset. You just cut the chain off. You stopped responding. Is this Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: an energy vampire? It's me, or is it just exhausting? Lisa S: I think it's me. Lisa Wilson: Get over yourself. Lisa S: Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, you muted the group chat. Like, you clearly Lisa Wilson: I mean, it's me. Lisa S: were not engaging. So it's you. It's you, honey. Your fault on there. Lisa Wilson: Correct. Correct. It's me for sure. I absolutely agree. Okay. So I mean, we're kind of healthy. I think this is this is exciting. Lisa S: Okay. Lisa Wilson: So your best friend has been going through a rough patch. For six months, you've been her unpaid therapist. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: She calls you while working, during dinner, once you're getting once while you were getting a mammogram. Last week you finally told her you need a little space. She apologized Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and now she's just ghosted you. What do you think? Is this was she an energy vampire? It's just me or exhausting? Lisa S: I kind of feel like it's energy vampire and exhausting like at the same time like that's just a lot girl like I Lisa Wilson: Yeah, I think so listen, I think energy vampires are exhausting. Lisa S: How exhausting. Yes. Yes. Lisa Wilson: Right? So what what is the difference between somebody who is legit out to suck you dry and Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: then someone who is just exhausting? I don't know that we are really as knowledgeable as we would like to be in this area. So Lisa S: Yes, correct. Lisa Wilson: we are bringing in our guest person. Her name is Jennifer Freer. She is an energy healer, and she is super Lisa S: awesome Lisa Wilson: excited to talk about energy vampires and things we can do to protect ourselves. So Jennifer, welcome. We're so excited Jenifer Freer: Thank you. Lisa Wilson: to have you. so Jennifer, you are an energy healer. Walk us through what that looks like in 2026. Like what is that? Jenifer Freer: Sure. I've resonated with being an energy healer since I was eight. So, but Lisa S: well. Jenifer Freer: it's mostly a just a person who holds a safe enough space for you to be able to feel like you can exhale and share your, you know, what's going on with you and not feel judged. and then, you know, the energy healer is just there not to fix anything, but to really just witness. and then of course, like get whatever guidance. I mean, I typically get guidance. Through, you know, I call on my angels, my my team will say, you know, go over here to this part of their abdomen, or hey, maybe mention Lisa S: Mm. Jenifer Freer: how much they're you know, they're not putting enough boundaries with their mother that just is having health issues, you know, whatever it is. so that to be that's to me what a true energy healer is, is just somebody who's able to have enough space to hold a safe place. Lisa Wilson: I love it. And so Lisa and Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I have been talking a lot about, you know, trying to understand why some people when we like we see them coming, we're like, Like we get that overwhelming, is it are they just exhausting or are they like, is there really such a thing as an energy vampire? Jenifer Freer: There's definitely a thing as an energy vampire. I think that's great information and really good to notice if your body does kind of constrict around somebody, because Lisa S: Mm. Jenifer Freer: your body is going to be your first kind of source of information to know whether this is a a safe experience for you or not. Lisa S: Yeah, so Jen, how do you see or feel someone's energy? So when that person, when you enter a room and it's a room where maybe you haven't been in before and you're around people you haven't seen or been around before, like how do you see or feel someone else's energy? Jenifer Freer: Yeah, so I typically I just am very clear cognizant as would be my first sensory gift as far as you know being sensitive and psychic and all that. And so I can feel I usually it's a feeling. It's more like I guess I would Lisa S: Okay. Jenifer Freer: describe it as an ick, and you don't really know why. Yes, and you don't really know why, Lisa S: Okay, we know the ick. Jenifer Freer: and so I just kind of observe, you know, the person and there'll be signs and Their behavior, their body language, you know, if they are able to look you in the eye or not, how they they interact with other people. Sometimes I'll see colors and stuff like that too. but really you can tell, I think, in the eyes mostly what's going on with somebody energetically. But yeah, as soon as you get Lisa S: Nice Jenifer Freer: the ick, you'll be able to tell. Lisa S: So do you also read auras? Okay, that's neat. Jenifer Freer: I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S: I love that. Lisa Wilson: Just I know, listen, I'm excited too. Jenifer Freer: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: and for everybody out there that you're kind of like, I've always wondered why Aunt Phyllis drains me so much. So Lisa, do you have an energy story where you're like this, this all I avoid this person or I always this always happens to me? Lisa S: quite a few, but one that really stood out to me was, and unfortunately this individual was on my team one time, and you can't escape that, right? Like you, I inherited a team and the energy of this individual was so heavy all the time, so every day going into work you were constantly, I feel like I was streaming like trying to swim upstream all the time because you were you would walk in and it was just like Everything's bad. Everything's negative Push back push back push back and not in a constructive way just like a really negative way and I'm not sure if this person was I don't know much about this person's personal life to to know if they were just struggling with something or if it was just like who they were but I just remember every day just going, my gosh, please, before I'd go into work, please, please, please, please, please just surround my try to protect myself as much as possible because this person would literally drain every ounce of energy out of me by the time I left for the day. Jen, do you have a story that you can, that you want to share? Jenifer Freer: Yeah. just like you, I both of you, I'm sure I have several. Lisa S: Yeah, yeah. Jenifer Freer: But I typically when I think of an energy vampire, I think most people just think about the person who complains all the time, the person who Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: is really involved in gossip, the person you know, like that kind of soul, it's for pretty easily identifiable. I have several throughout my life that has shifted from like family members to, you know, one of the most memorables to would be like my in-laws. They I remember just going over for Christmas, especially when I first started getting into the family. And I would be physically ill because of the energy. Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: It was just so just no joy, no joy, no love. Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: and I would have that physical reaction to it. And so towards like the end of my marriage, I actually got better being around my in laws and you know, we can talk about this later about the protecting of energy and being able to Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: be in that environment because sometimes you can't, like you're saying, it's a coworker, right? I have A you know, Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: pretty a co-worker who was insanely draining and you know took advantage of the fact that I was new in my position and would say things to me that were manipulative, Lisa S: Yes! Jenifer Freer: and just like put me down, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: you know, because they were projecting Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: their own insecurities on me. And so that could definitely be an energy vampire. And then also places like the one of the biggest I think place Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: to really recognize would be like the DMV, right? Like that's like that place is full. Lisa S: Like where nobody wants to be ever. Jenifer Freer: Yeah, nobody wants to help. No one is happy they're there. You know, like it's just ick. You get ick. The airport Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: would be another big one, you know. And so I think it's Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: important to realize, you know, that not energy vibr vampires don't just have to be people, but it could be places. And the more they're aware of that, the more you can be prepared Lisa S: That's a good point. Jenifer Freer: for that kind of interaction. Lisa Wilson: Lisa and I talked last week about the vibe of a place and like, do you respect Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: that vibe or do you just push through? And we respect the vibe. We're like, nope, we're out if we can, as long as we're not Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: at work or something. But one of the things when thinking about an energy vampire that I really I've always said it in my head, but I've never really said it out loud. So I have grief thieves in my life. So the people that you are telling them like you've just had this catastrophic event in your life, and they tell you, well, it's really not that bad. Or, you know what, let you just need to laugh. Like you're spending too much time worrying about this. You're spending too much time dwelling on this. And you're literally in a traumatic episode. And they're like, just forget about it. Like people have it way worse than you. that you're overreacting, you're spending too long talking about this. So there's like they steal your grief from you. And I Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: just I hate that. But in the same vein, I have joy thieves. So Lisa and I earlier were talking about Eeyores you know, like the people that are like, like it doesn't matter. Lisa S: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: You could be like, hey, I won the lottery, and they're like, you'll probably get cancer and die. Like, I Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: mean. Right, like those types of personalities, would you quali would you say, Jen, that those are and are those energy vampire types, or are those just exhausting people? Jenifer Freer: I mean, I think they could definitely be both. Maybe it's you know, it's it's and energy thief and someone who's just exhausting because they're choosing, you know, that essentially. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: so yeah. Lisa S: And think Lisa Wilson: I mean Lisa S: it could also be people that don't really want to see you happy. Like there are Jenifer Freer: Uh-huh. Lisa S: people out there that if you're happy that makes them even more sad. You know? So I mean, Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Yeah. One hundred percent. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: you know, it's, man. Lisa Wilson: Well, and then like I I witnessed this, I've had this happen myself, but I am very into my own boundaries. I'm pretty good at it. Or Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: or I'm a narcissist. You know, either way. Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we'll we'll see how that rolls out. But I noticed it happening to my husband Doug, is he was having he was really sad about something and his friend kept saying, man, like let's not talk about this. You're bringing the room down. And I literally was like, No. Like, if he wants to swim around in melancholy, let him fucking swim around in the melancholy. Like, this isn't about you. I recognized it as a pattern and I was like, this stops today. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Like we're Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: we're not, we're not doing this anymore. Right. And I feel like not everybody out there kind of has that strength or that ability to kind of draw that line in the sand and and protect themselves. Lisa S: What do you think it is though? Is there a difference between somebody who just really is mean or do you think it's somebody who just your grief is just inconvenient for them? Because there could be two different things. Somebody can just be like super mean and just not even care ever. Or it can just be like, this just isn't convenient. I don't want to talk about it. Lisa Wilson: So I think the grief thief can it can it's usually a form of selfishness. Like they don't want to they don't want to make room for this and so they're just not going to. So they want and they're uncomfortable with your with your sadness. So they just want to move on, right? And then Lisa S: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I think the joy thief is somebody who is just crabs in a bucket. Like Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: they don't want to ever see anybody do better than them. Or they don't Lisa S: Mmm. Lisa Wilson: want to see other people be happy because that light is what kind of makes them feel dark about themselves. So that's Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: why I'm saying like I really feel like that is a form of an energy vampire. Like either one, like they're just looking to they're looking to bring you down to wherever they are or to give them the the give them the attention, you know, and Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: let them talk about how they're feeling about things. And it's just it's tricky. Right, it's definitely tricky. Jenifer Freer: Lisa, when you were saying grief thief, like it's also I was thinking it that it's like when you share a story of grief and then someone tells you how they have it worse or how this happened to them or how they're, Lisa S: mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: you know, something like that. would also I think that's a form of like, okay, well I'm gonna double up on this person's sadness and show them that actually I'm a you know a bigger of a victim in this scenario. Lisa S: That's a good point. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: You know, and then joy thief for sure. I mean, I think, you know, when people are on on that, it's a consciousness level, right? And I d I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt that, you know, they're Lisa Wilson: Mm. Jenifer Freer: grown up in environments and things like that. And I definitely, at the end of the day, think things are a choice. but when someone can't when that triggers like your grip abundance or your luck a trigger something in someone is because they're just like they can't even think that would be possible for them, you know? And so it is Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: stealing your your energy and stuff like that because they just want to be like, okay, no, I'm gonna bring you down to here to so I feel more normal or I feel you know safer. so that definitely could be it you know a form of energy vampire for sure. Yeah. Lisa S: That's a good point. That's a good point. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: They're everywhere. I mean, like, let's just think about it. Like Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa S: now when you start thinking about your experiences, it's like, my gosh, they're everywhere. Lisa Wilson: Well, I mean, if I were an energy vampire, I'd go to the people with the most energy, like every time. Lisa S: Hahaha Jenifer Freer: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: Right. So, Jen, would you Lisa S: Ahem. Lisa Wilson: do a reading on us and tell us what the vibe is? What are you seeing? What are you feeling? Jenifer Freer: Yeah. So do you guys want me to do just like a overall read or d do you have specific like a question or something maybe that you're working through that I can bring clarity to? I'm open to either. Lisa Wilson: Lisa, it's your it's your call, Lisa. What what do you what do you think? Lisa S: I just wanted to probably feel a little, mean, cause we can always cut this, but like, I would like it just to be a little bit more organic. Like, what did you feel? Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: Okay, yeah, yeah. Lisa S: Like, cause you know Lisa, Jenifer Freer: Uh-huh. Lisa S: but maybe how Lisa's showing up today, maybe, you know, she's got a rainbow around her today. I don't know. Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa S: So anyway, that's what I think, I would just like like, like vibe check, you know? Okay. Jenifer Freer: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. I got it. Okay. So Lisa Wilson, I'll start with you. Okay, so I mean right away that yellow, like yellow is your color. Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: it's the color of joy. And then also you mentioned that you're really good at holding the boundaries. So that also represents like the solar plexus, which is our seat of power and being able to have those boundaries and stuff like that. I also see pink around you, you're a very nurturing type. you care about things, Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: like you care, you care about the animals, you care about, you know, the trees, Lisa Wilson: Mm. Jenifer Freer: you care about earth essentially. and even like children, you know, like it's just like you have this deep nurturing instinct more beyond than just being a woman and having those you know bio kind of engineering capabilities. some there are the sorry Lisa S: Just say it. Just say Lisa Wilson: You say Lisa S: it. Jenifer Freer: there are some things, it feels very distant and it's on the left side that like some just people that influence you sometimes more than they should. and it y again, you're aware of it. So that's why it feels like a little distant thing and it's a part of your, you know, part of your evolution, part of your karma. It's it's all good things. but it does like, I don't know, I'm seeing like three people, and they're all like in a bubble together. So don't really know what that means, but Yeah, there's just a a select few that are kind of impacting your energy right now. But your energy overall is very very open, very bright, very protective, almost like Glenda, the good witch, you know, from L. That's how I Lisa S: I it. Jenifer Freer: that's the that's the vibe I'm getting. and so yeah, but things are things are pretty good. There's a little bit of like Turbulence issues, but it's not, it's nothing that's overtaking. and so and yeah, I can tell you've been taking care of yourself too. Like you've been doing the the the self-care things and the the things that are important to you. Yeah. Okay, cool. So Lisa S: I love that. You are yellow and pink. You are. Jenifer Freer: good. Okay, Lisa S, you're a very I get witchy vibes like all around. Like just very Lisa S: Hmm? Jenifer Freer: I see purple mostly, you have very strong intuition. Lisa S: Okay. Jenifer Freer: and so and then I see green and so and it's like a deep emerald, so the heart. So you're also very deeply caring and deeply like emotional and like relationships affect you deeply. and Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: so like pink and green are the essence of a heart chakra, but with like you know with Lisa Wilson it was just it's more like pink and bubbly like Linda and with you it's like more rooted and like I don't know I just keep seeing this green emerald like there's a depth like it's like multi-dimensional. my cancose pumps when I said that And then your aura is clear. Your aura is clear. Like it's very like I wanna say like purity would be the word that I would describe Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: it as. You have a very cleansing aura and like typically people feel refreshed around you. I do feel like there's a little bit of people need to show you who are who they are before you can really trust them. Like you take your time into knowing people, which is really good, you know, like is a great, but there is some of that. is rooted in a little bit of like the past of like what you've you know encountered from people along your life journey. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: and so there's so it's just good to be mindful like is this coming from I'm putting this person at a distance or a boundary because you know there there is something going on and I need to listen to that or is it because I'm doing more of it it's like a fear-based kind of thing. And it's Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: so subtle because it's that it does take that time to to kind of check in with that. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: But yeah, lots of lots of clarity. I see almost like white doves flying around you too. Like it's just which would be again the purity. Yeah, exactly. perfect and the purple. Yeah, yeah, Lisa Wilson: Like Prince She's really into Prince so that that could be that. Lisa S: Yeah. So that's perfect and the purple. Jenifer Freer: yeah. No, for sure. Prince could be a spirit guide. Lisa S: Like, this is just perfect! Jenifer Freer: Yes, yes. Prince will pop in as my spirit guide sometimes too. So I wouldn't be surprised if he did that for you too. Yeah, like he's he's Lisa S: Get out! my gosh, I love it. Jenifer Freer: yeah. I love that. Yeah. No, thank you for letting me do that. It was super fun. Lisa S: Thank you. I feel like it's spot on. I feel like that's like, I love it. Thank you so much. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: a spot on I love it. Yay. Okay. So So let's talk about how to protect yourself, right? Lisa S: Mm. Lisa Wilson: So my friend called me this week who is very woo. She said, I I'm my energy is off. I have I have I'm pretty sure I have a nasty attachment. I need to go see an energy healer. But is that is there are there people that really honestly have attachments that are beyond their control? And if so, what can we do to to rid ourselves of that and what can we do to protect ourselves from from energy vampires? Jenifer Freer: Yeah, no, I think that's so good. people can absolutely have attachments to them. And so ways to do to clear and cleanse and protect yourself would be you could definitely have you know help some help with it, see an energy healer. But really I'll just grab ground in and use my breath to kind of like, okay, is this mine or someone else's? If it's mine, it will stay. If it's someone else's, it will leave. And then I'll I'll start to see like a glowing bright light around me, or I'll envision energy, like it's like tentacles of energy coming back into my body. Or I'll pray and ask for help. You know, like I'm feeling really weird. I'll kind of talk it out with myself, process with myself. But I think the best protection that you can have against energy vampires is Be consistent in your energetic practices. So, Lisa S: Mm. Jenifer Freer: and it doesn't have to be meditating every day for two hours. I think people get hung up on that. It could look like you know, going to the gym and working out, it could look like you know going for a walk. It does very help if you can do meditation, if you can do breath work, if you can do you know, those moments where you check in with yourself, even it's before, like I'll do a lot of times before I go to work, you know, just check in with my energy, imagine a bright bubble around me and Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: say, no matter even what. happens because there's times I think too people get discouraged by this practice. It's like you can feel really, really good and do all of the right things. And then you go into an environment and a situation comes up that you weren't expecting and kind of rocks you. And then you're just like, Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: why did I like that none of that stuff even mattered because my energy my energy is weird Lisa S: You Jenifer Freer: and I feel tired and now I'm cranky, you know, and all that stuff. But I also take that as like an opportunity just to you know, number one, not take it so seriously. Like, why am I reacting to the situation instead of being able to like observe? I'll just say, like, I'm letting this person have control of how I feel or the situation let a control how I feel. and because I really truly believe, you know, we're not here just to, you know, heal and then just like have peace for the rest of our life, you know, like life Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: Yeah, we're supposed to learn. Jenifer Freer: is hard. Life is stressful. There's a lot going on. So we need to be able to hold the hard time. So if you're energetically, you know, you have your spiritual practices and your energy practice and you're holding strong with that, you're able to take those times that would normally rock you into an opportunity of like being able to stand in your power and be like, okay, this shitty thing is happening, but I don't need to totally go down a rabbit hole with it. I can just kind of detach from it and observe rather than react. Lisa S: Yeah, like we, I agree 100%. I think we were talking in one of our previous episodes about like, how do we protect ourselves from this stuff? And I think I didn't always have tools to do that. And so being able to now have the tools to know like, if I am going on a trip, I do some protection work before I leave for... in the car or at the airport. So I'm not carrying other people's stuff and that it's a smooth experience. Are there going to be things that will happen along the way? Yeah. But I always wonder if I didn't do that, would it be worse? Jenifer Freer: Mm, mm, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. So I think the visualization of like surround yourself in white light. I think that I've been doing that since like elementary school. And I don't Lisa S: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Lisa Wilson: even know where it came from. but I've Jenifer Freer: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: always I've always like it because I get I get feelings when there are something I cannot see is around. And if it makes me feel anxious or if it makes me feel stressed out or upset, like I'll literally imagine from my toes all the way to the top of my head. Like all white light and that it's shining so bright that Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: nothing can penetrate, right? So Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: that I've always had a lot of success with. The other is, you know, like I I did not get into crystals. I know there are a lot of people out there that carry protective crystals, carry energy Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: crystals. I have a box of salt in my car. It's like a huge and I have a case in my garage. So do I just have a lot of salt or is that protective? Lisa S: Hahaha! Lisa Wilson: What do you think, Jen Jenifer Freer: It's definitely it's definitely cleansing, definitely pr protective and cleansing. And I would and if you I love that because I don't think I've ever heard someone say that before, you know. And so you think of like the sage and the you know, the sound and all that stuff that can clear, but salt absolutely is a purifier and a way to clear and cleanse your energy and keep it high vibe. Mmm, yeah, so yeah. Lisa S: I have selenite. I put selenite in my car. So my son's car, my car, selenite. I have it all over my house. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. I mean, I have a friend you Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: guys who like literally carries a box of crystal, like a bag Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: of crystals wherever she goes and she knows what each one means. Jenifer Freer: Mm. Lisa Wilson: So I think Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: that it comes down to it's what works for you and what you feel good about, right? And what you makes you feel Jenifer Freer: Yep. Yep. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: like you're in control when everything is out of control. so you guys, yeah. Yeah. Jenifer Freer: I do wanna say something really quick about that. because Lisa S: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: The enabling part of an energy vampire, if you have an energy vampire in your life that you're enabling, this could be a family member, it could be a longtime friend, it could be something like that. Just noticing your part with like always answering the call, or always, you know, because sometimes that could be, especially with my mom, is very hard. She would do a lot of energy vampire on me. My whole life, like I felt like, and I love my mom, we have a great little relationship, but but I had to do some serious boundary work for that. And so it was also recognizing the part place because if you're Still holding those people in your life, you're not letting the people who are the high five vibes, you know, in because they can't get in, because you're here listening to Joe Shamo's story about how miserable they are, or how they need more help, or no Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: one's here to help them, or whatever it is. So just being aware of that, of like needing to let go of the people, or how are you enabling the energy of vampires? And then if you are, you're not really letting anyone who's of the caliber you want to be met at because you're still participating in the, you know, the entanglement. Lisa S: That's a good point. That's a really good point. Lisa Wilson: I am very good about cutting people off like dead limbs and just moving on without them. but there's a lot of people out there that don't do that. You know what I mean? And you're right, Jenifer Freer: Mm-hmm. Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: they just continue to pick up, they continue to take the emotional weight of that other person. and you guys, let's not do that, right? Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: But something we haven't touched on that I definitely I'm gonna own my shit here. Jenifer Freer: Yeah. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I believe as so I am an introvert. You would probably never guess it. I am a hundred percent an introvert, living as an extrovert, Lisa S: Hmm Lisa Wilson: right? So that requires a lot of energy, right? So I am I am very much a person that feeds off of people to get what the vibe that I need to get to get through the meeting or the the work lunch or the happy hour or the networking event. I would rather clean the toilet with my tongue. Lisa S: Hehehehehe Lisa Wilson: Then go to an afterwork happy hour. but I have to because that's what I have to do to survive in this capital world, right? So on that note, are are we all energy vampires sometimes? Or is this just me doing what I gotta do to survive? What do you think, Jen? Jenifer Freer: Ha ha I definitely think that we can be energy vampires. I think and I was thinking about the ways that shows up for me. And typically, if I am in a relationship, like a romantic relationship, I can be the energy vampire by constantly needing the reassurance from my partner. Like I remember Lisa S: Mmm! Jenifer Freer: like that phrase something that came up was like, I would always ask my partner, like, do you still love me? You know, like do you still Lisa S: Mmm! Jenifer Freer: Love me. Do you or my other thing would be like, tell me a story? And that was like my like, I need you to connect with me. I need you to pay all of your attention to me because I'm not feeling you know, whatever, right? And so I Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Jenifer Freer: think it can be in the whenever you're looking for reassurance or like trying to pull your energy from somewhere else, right? Outside of you, like, of course, we need human support, and of course, like that's not what I'm speaking to, but it's like when it comes from that place of like insecurity is where you gotta. watch out. And I also noticed it with somebody that I actually was recently talking to of you know it we were just dating so nothing was serious but he had a lot of relationships with different women and was very like emotionally open with all of them. And I what I got was that it was like it was this it was being in an energy vampire and feeding from these different women feelings to feel good, right? Because he wasn't able to give it to himself because he's very insecure in a lot of different ways. yeah, like that. So that can be a form, Lisa S: That's so true. Jenifer Freer: and he's somebody who works on himself, and that knows I don't think anyone's like a bad person for this, right? I just think it's good to be aware of these patterns so that you can be like, okay, I'm being an energy vampire right now. Like, what do I need to do to help me feel more secure? Or maybe it is just like a more honest conversation with your partner, like, hey, I'm kind of feeling a little disconnected from you right now, like this is what I need, you know, instead of being like, you know, a different way in, because typically. that can annoy. I know I annoyed my ex-husband a lot. So Lisa Wilson: Lisa, what do you think? Lisa S: my gosh. Well, I know, I mean, I've said this, I know for a fact, I've been an energy vampire in my life and I, I've just think back about how selfish I was to think that people wanted to live my sorrow out loud with me all the time, you know? And I just don't think I was, I was seeing what I was doing calling the same people to talk about the same problem every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, you know, and it was Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: like I wasn't doing anything to change it, though. Like so taking some accountability back on myself, like looking back at it, it's like, my gosh, like I wasn't changing my loop. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: And they had to list like be in it with me or just not answer, you know what I mean? And there's a difference between like, hey, I'm having a bad day. Can you just like hear me out? Or if it's if you're just like that person that every time you talk to particular people, you're talking about something negative or a situation, it's kind of sucky. Lisa Wilson: But listen, one of the things that that we constantly do in our podcast is we try to say, okay, there's all this stuff. There's energy vampires around every corner. Sometimes we're the energy vampires. Sometimes, you know, people tell us that we're the like we we we go see people for help and they tell us we're the problem. Chat GPT. And, you know, it's it's hard to get through this alone for sure. And so Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: that's why we started a podcast is we wanted people to realize that they were not alone and going through these weird. Things and these weird struggles. And we really wanted to find those high fives, those positive moments in like even these darkest of times, right? And for us, we all have like that high five person or moment or like an energy door, right? The people that we Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: know we can rely on to lift us up, even when maybe we're not. Worthy of it or feeling like it. So do you, Jenifer do you have an energy door person that you go to for your high five when you really need to feel that moment? Jenifer Freer: Totally. Totally. I have a couple actually. some really strong women in my life that if I'm going through something that I can just, you know, let them know and that, you know, they really hold the space for me and are able just to be like like, hey, look how far you've grown and stuff like that. But I also think that I get it a lot through just maybe I I believe a lot of times God speaks through people. Like sometimes there's certain things or phrases that you need to hear that come through people. Will say it to a lot. Like an example would be like people started saying to me lately, like within the last week or two, don't worry, don't worry. And I'm Shut up. What do you mean, don't worry? You know? Lisa S: yeah. What's going to happen? Jenifer Freer: or people will be like, you know, you're doing such a good job. Like, I just started a new job, and I've been in our month, and then someone came from like New York to like come observe, and he was like, You look like you've been doing it for two years, or you know, the staff will be like, 'You Lisa S: awesome Jenifer Freer: know, I appreciate like some us my second week in One of the staff members brought me a huge. Crystal heart, you know, and so like I'll get that kind Lisa S: Mmm. Jenifer Freer: of through. And it I feel that it's God like coming through that person, you know. So I Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Jenifer Freer: feel lucky enough to be able to recognize the high fives from God, you know. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S: Yeah, well that's cool. Jenifer Freer: and but I do definitely have those people around where I can, you know, say, Hey, I'm I'm struggling, and I just need to vent. And so, you know, sometimes that is Chat GPT too. It could be both. Lisa S: I love it. That's Lisa's best friend. Lisa Wilson: I mean, you know, so but I it is my best friend. And I I would say that I I think we're also lucky that we have those energy doors in our lives. And Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: we like I have like Lisa for me is an energy door. Like I know that no matter what I'm gonna call her with, she's gonna answer and she's gonna listen and she's gonna try to like make me feel better. Right? Like that is so powerful. try to find those those anti-energy vampires that fill you up as much as you possibly can. Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: But so we've Lisa S: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: reached the point in our episode where we where we try to answer the question. I think we've answered the question. We all believe energy vampires are real. Lisa S: Yes. Jenifer Freer: Yes, Lisa Wilson: And then we've also acknowledged that sometimes we are the energy vampires. And Lisa S: Yes. Yes. Jenifer Freer: On a hundred percent. Lisa Wilson: you know what? That's okay. That's life, right? That's how it rolls out. so you guys, if you've ever dealt with an energy vampire or a grief thief or a joy thief, tell us what happened. We don't have to give, we don't have to have the names, but just put it in our our socials or on YouTube, put it in the comments because the more we know. Right. The more like your comment might help someone else that's taking a look at it who's Jenifer Freer: Uh-huh. Lisa Wilson: really struggling with that energy or with that energy vampire. so remember, you guys, please make sure that you stay hydrated, that you roll Jenifer Freer: Yes. Lisa Wilson: your shoulders back, that you unclench Lisa S: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: jaw, get rid of that energy attachment, stop letting it suck you down so that you can go high five somebody. Lisa S: Yes. Jenifer Freer: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Go be an amazing human and have a great, Lisa S: Love it. Lisa Wilson: great week, you Jenifer Freer: Mm. Lisa Wilson: guys. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you later. Bye. Jenifer Freer: There you go. Lisa S: Bye.