Latest / White Fox Talking / E82: A 1% Chance Of Survival — How Georgia Carmichael Rewrote Her Story

Transcript

E82: A 1% Chance Of Survival — How Georgia Carmichael Rewrote Her Story · White Fox Talking

0:02
SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking podcast.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: Hello, Charlie.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Doing a bit more extra.
0:18
SPEAKER_03: Not making a match goal.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: I learned failing.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: I love failing, you learn from failing.
0:27
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: Great strength, great mental strength.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: So the White Fox Talking Podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
0:38
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
0:41
SPEAKER_03: Georgia Carmichael.
0:42
SPEAKER_03: Is that what I think?
0:43
SPEAKER_03: Carmichael.
0:45
SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
0:46
SPEAKER_03: I've got um yeah, I've got a habit of pronouncing everyone's names wrong.
0:48
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a Yorkshire thing.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: I just say everything in like a uh yeah, in a Yorkshire way and it all goes wrong.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, welcome to the podcast.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: Could you give our listeners a brief introduction about yourself?
0:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's quite a complicated one.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: See, I'm Georgia, I'm 23, and I'm a full-time GB rower in the Paralympic team.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: And I have quite a complex story.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: So I've always been a rower since I was 13.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: And then when I was 19, I had a spinal cord injury that left me fighting for my life, a year in hospital, and then came home three months, and then unfortunately out of the blue.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Had a second spinal injury caused by a spinal stroke in my neck, which left me paralysed from the neck down.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: And then three months later, we got the diagnosis of what caused the spinal stroke, which was illness, it's a mitochondrial condition.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: That was then labelled as terminal, and that day I was given a survival chance of 1% and kind of told that's the end of my story.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And for a while it was rough, and I spent the next 18 months in hospital being told you know you're not ever gonna go home, and then I did come home, and that's when the hard work really began.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: And now it's been four years, and I took my first steps in April this year, so three and a half years later, and yeah, now I'm back rowing full time and just getting to live again.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: Wow, wow, wow, and that's a brief introduction.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: Oh DM, this is gonna be good.
2:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's always quite hard to summarise that.
2:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, we we we sort of understand that, but it's like you know, if we read it, we can read do bits of research and read it, but it's better coming from from yourself.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: So we met at the Head Outside Awards in in November in Kendall.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: Congratulations on your award, which was Thank you.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: It was an inspirational individual.
2:33
SPEAKER_03: Excellent, excellent.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: And then unfortunately, we'd had someone drop out, so we had a podcast space and we were there, and it's like, right, we need to speak to this lady.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: So thank you very much for coming on.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: If we were to go back, so you started paddling at 13, did you say?
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I mean I first got in a boat when I was 10, and then when I was 13, I became a GB rower, so quite young.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very young.
2:55
SPEAKER_03: And what's what craft was that?
2:57
SPEAKER_00: So I always race in a quad or a double, so two or four people, and I always did sculling, so which means with two oars instead of just one.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what that means?
3:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I do.
3:07
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm only with paddle boarding, you see.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: So I just potter around lakes and on sedate rivers doing a bit of a bit of gentle paddling and letting the stream take me and do do all my like little nature therapy and just there is something it's not spiritual, but something really soothing about being on water, I suppose.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's my favourite place for me.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, did you have do you I suppose if you're racing, you're concentrating on the racing.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: Do you do much time do you spend much time just enjoying?
3:33
SPEAKER_00: A lot of our training sessions are quite long, so you have a lot of time, especially if you're in a single where it's just you, the boat and the water, and I find it very rhythmical.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: So especially early in the morning or kind of sunrise, sunset, it's really beautiful.
3:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm good.
3:47
SPEAKER_03: I could go off on a hippie tangent then.
3:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, your sunrise and your sunset is when all the birds are generally out and making a noise, isn't it?
3:53
SPEAKER_03: That's super relaxing.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: And then being on the water as well.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: It's it's like a connection with nature, really, isn't it?
3:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, completely.
3:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what a way to connect with nature, isn't it?
4:01
SPEAKER_03: She's gonna be it next year.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: Is it your career now as a GB rower?
4:05
SPEAKER_03: Can it be?
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it has been.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Um a funded athlete and I've been back funded since last year with the power team, but I also work on the side as a physio.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: Oh right.
4:15
SPEAKER_03: So I did a little bit of both, yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: Wow, quite a lot going on then.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like to keep quite busy.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: Can I ask when you're rowing before your injury, what level were you then?
4:23
SPEAKER_00: So I was GB before my injury.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, from the age of 13.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: So always the professional.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a lot of my life has been professional sport, especially rowing.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, for as long as I can remember, I've been doing sport pretty much full time.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: And what what attracted you to rowing in the first place?
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So where I live, we live by the River Thames, and it's kind of the rowing hotspot around here.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So it's like Henley Marlowe, which is where all the big races are, and so kind of everyone rows, but also it was the 2012 Olympics was literally just on my doorstep.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: So I went to watch rowing and I was like, wow, that's a really cool sport, I want to try it.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of then how I got involved and just went down to a local club, got on a boat, and then the first thing I said, I think, after five minutes of boat was to my mum, I was like, I'm gonna go to the Olympics.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh really?
5:12
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: It became my goal, yeah.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: So what sort of at that age, what sort of training routine are you doing then?
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So obviously after school, so that does actually have to come first, and we would train early in the morning, so before school, for a long session, go to school, sometimes train at lunchtime as well, and then we'd train either one or two sessions after school.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: So it was quite full on, and then every weekend I was up in Nottingham training the whole weekend.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
5:38
SPEAKER_03: Because we speak to people like yourself who say that school came first, and even though I wasn't ever going to complete in the Olympics or anything, school wasn't high on my priorities, I'll be honest.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't it wasn't uh our choice about that, but it had to be one of the training, we had to keep up our grades.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, for me I loved wearing in not so much skill.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: But it had to be done.
5:58
SPEAKER_03: Can I ask you about the the first spinal cord injury?
6:02
SPEAKER_03: Was that a physical it's a physical injury, this is it?
6:04
SPEAKER_03: So an accident?
6:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I'd literally just returned home from the world championships a couple weeks before.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Came home and I was at university at the time, and I went and did a white water kayak race in Scotland, and I'd had a bit of experience kayaking, but not for a little while.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And then basically it was just like a big drop.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: It was a waterfall at the end of the race, and I'm fortunate it was in the wrong line, and obviously the water is a lot stronger than me.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: And the way I landed was as I went down the drop, my boat flipped and I landed upside down the rocks, and I got pinned between the rock and my boat, which then like obviously bent me back and yeah, caused the spinal injury and also a brain injury and a lot of other auto-penic injuries.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a pretty nasty, nasty accident.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I don't remember any of it.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: So so while that happened, did they have to drag you out of the water?
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so then I'd the thing that actually saved my life was my spray deck, which goes like round you in the boat to keep the water out, wasn't on properly.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: So when I fell, I kind of came out the boat and then went into the water, which actually saved my life because if I had been trapped continuously, they wouldn't have got to me as as quickly.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: But obviously I was unconscious, so I went under and they pulled me out and resuscitated me, and then I was airlifted to the hospital.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know what I said?
7:15
SPEAKER_03: I know a few paddlers and paddle sports instructors, but when I see them doing the kayak in it, I think it's at high force in Teesville.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: It's not high force, low force.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: And there's and they come off and the kayak sort of goes forward and they're sort of leaning backwards, and you're thinking, look, that's not for me.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
7:30
SPEAKER_00: It is a dangerous sport.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean and the race was called Death's Rock, which I didn't actually find out till the day of the race, but I have a bit of a love for adrenaline, so it quite didn't really stop me doing it.
7:42
SPEAKER_03: Right.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's a risky sport.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: So, what was the first you knew about that in general?
7:47
SPEAKER_03: Are you alright talking about this, by the way?
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, completely fine.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, so the first I knew about it, I actually don't remember the first three months.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: So for the first six weeks, I was in a coma and then I woke up but was in quite a vegetative state, so not quite there.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't really aware until, yeah, about three months later, which was quite crazy because my accent was in November.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: So by that point that I was aware it'd already been Christmas and New Year, which is very confusing.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: I didn't having a brain injury, which makes me confused anyway.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: I just remember kind of waking up, being like, I can't really move.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: I was quite confused, and I didn't really recognise anyone around me.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's the first memory I had.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously, over the next few days, people would explain, you know, you've been in this nasty accident, this is what's happened, but I couldn't talk.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So I'd lost the ability to talk and because of the damage to my brain.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't actually communicate, but I was fully aware, so I wanted to say things, I just wasn't able to.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: But I'll just ask you then if you'll feel alright talking about this, and that's terrifying me, Satya.
8:46
SPEAKER_03: Sort of imagining it.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: It must be, it must have been well, bloody hell.
8:49
SPEAKER_03: I don't want to send you back to that moment.
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
8:52
SPEAKER_00: No, I've done a lot of work since on dealing with it, and I think I'm quite great for that.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember a lot of it, and it's still quite a blur, um, which is good.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: Do you think that was yourself protecting yourself from it?
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, having got to know people who've been in similar accidents or different accidents, a lot of us probably should remember certain parts of it, like even the day of the race I don't remember, but it is your brain's way of protecting you from remembering.
9:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just a lot, innit?
9:17
SPEAKER_03: Well, you think I I'm just trying to put myself in that position where that thing about one not being able to speak and communicate, I'm like, what where am I now?
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh boy.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: It was a very confusing time.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, it is you just you you're in shock for a while.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It's it was you don't believe it's happened, you think you're in some sort of kind of nightmare or bad dream, and that it's it can't be reality.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, these kind of things you see on the news or you hear happen, but surely it can't happen to like me.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what I thought.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: But we all think that until it does happen to you, and unfortunately, that's the only brutal way you really learn.
9:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like that.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: How long was it until you sort of got a proper grip on it, really?
9:51
SPEAKER_03: Like in you, or have you?
9:53
SPEAKER_03: There's things happen in my life that I still not got a grip on.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: So you're like, No, I think like I'll never fully process it all.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't think you can like that level of trauma, but I think over then the next few months I kind of came to terms that okay, I'm gonna be in a wheelchair, that's what they're telling me.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, but I also was making progress, which did help.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: So I think it was kind of maybe after like six months.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: I was still in the hospital, but I then moved to a rehab unit at this point, and for me, that meant I could just work hard.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I just applied all my training, but into a physio session or an occupational therapy session, and it actually helped me cope a lot because it became my coping mechanism because I didn't have my training, which has always been my sort of therapy, so now I just put that into a different form, and I think yeah, at that point I was able to say some words as well and kind of tell people I loved them and say certain sentences, which did also help.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: I think I was in survival mode for the whole time I was in hospital.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: It's not till you come home that reality really hits you because you realise, wow, my life is very different now, and this is not who I was.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: And you kind of go through that grieving process of who you were, and not just who you were, but like who you wanted to be or kind of the future you'd always envisioned.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: So when when you said you came out of hospital, yes, you had your support network around you, your family was there to support you.
11:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose having having that support network around you, how crucial was that?
11:14
SPEAKER_03: What is that?
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean completely.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think I put a lot of my recovery down to them because if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be here.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: It was a small thing as well, like you know, just getting to say that I loved my mum again after five months was was a really big moment and seeing how much that meant to her as well as me.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: But also they've been through it more than I had because I didn't remember three months of it, whereas they did.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: And I mean they really rallied around me.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And I was I was in hospital pretty far away from home, but every day one of my friends and one of my family were there, and when I came home, you know, they all celebrated and they found ways to kind of help get me back outdoors and and do all these amazing things again.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: And it took a while, and I wasn't I wasn't the best at letting them in.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I wouldn't talk to them, I was very bad at I I would put on a hard show and stuff.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And I think being an athlete, it you are kind of taught that, and it is drilled into you a little bit that you just keep going and keep it to yourself.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Whereas over time I started kind of letting people in and I actually realised the power in that.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: So, what sort of person were you?
12:12
SPEAKER_03: I suppose this might be an odd question.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Were you before the accident?
12:16
SPEAKER_03: Would you say positive minded or yeah, very stubborn.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: All right, so it was very stubborn.
12:21
SPEAKER_03: That might be a good thing in this.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it definitely is.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Can work against me occasionally, but yeah, stubborn.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm very outdoorsy.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Like I've grown up doing sports, obviously, doing elite level sport, but also just everything outdoors.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: I was very much kind of an adventurous kid, usually getting in trouble for something or other, but just had kind of a love for life and adventure and just wanting to do anything.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: And I've always been very competitive, but I guess the kind of difference beforehand, I was a lot more shut off.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: I think I always tell people I'm a bit of a lone wolf, like I'm very hyper-independent.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously going through the accident, I had that completely ripped away from me because I couldn't be independent anymore.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose that original focus then though, and this single-mindedness of an athlete, because I was just reading now about you being world champion at the age of 15, I guess.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: That's young.
13:06
SPEAKER_03: That was yeah.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's very young.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I had to grow up pretty fast, yeah.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: Which also I don't think was a bad thing.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Going into everything I then faced and all the setbacks, it it taught me a lot and always the lessons I'd learned I could really apply into then my recovery.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned earlier from this uh the spinal cord injury, and you know, I'd mentioned about are you alright talking about that?
13:25
SPEAKER_03: You mentioned you'd done lots of work on that.
13:27
SPEAKER_03: So can we just have a chat about that?
13:28
SPEAKER_03: Because I think people would be fascinated to know how you can come to terms with something like that.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure you ever fully come to terms with it.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm in a very different position now to what I was then.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: It's also obviously been four years, but I think it was just time.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: And for me, being stubborn did help.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: And the amount of times I was told, you know, you're not gonna do this again, you're not gonna do that again, and kind of to give up my hope of ever getting back in a boat or ever doing my sport again.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: But for me, whenever that was said, it kind of lit a fire inside of me, and I just wanted more than ever to prove them wrong and to go and do all these things, and also I guess hope was a big one.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Like I never let go of that hope that maybe it would be okay, maybe one day I would be able to achieve these things.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: And of course, there was doubt and a lot of doubt over time, and there was some months that were very dark because I just didn't know what life was going to look like, and I didn't like not knowing.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And I just think in that moment, that's when obviously I mentioned the weekend about visualization, yeah, and that became my safe space because in a hospital where there's so many things going on and you're constantly being told bad news, it's hard to escape.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: You're kind of trapped in those walls, and obviously people came in to visit, but then they leave, they get to go out into the the world, whereas I was just trapped, and for me, I'd literally just spent hours a day closing my eyes and taking myself off somewhere, whether it was back in a boat, back on racing, or you know, to all sorts of places all over the world, because for me it just gave me a moment of peace and a moment to breathe away from the reality I was facing at the time.
15:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you look at would it be the sort of visualizations that you see where like elite rock climbers and racing drivers and think where they're doing these movement movement visualizations or the remembering that you know, say for instance a rally driver or a racing driver, and you see them actually going through the movement, so that and it's actually uh somewhere about building the neurons, and then that's that muscle memory and the the impulses from the neurons that rebrain your it to your actual muscles was it's that sort of thing.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Exactly that, and of course, a lot of the time when I was doing all these visualizations, I was also trying to regain movement, and I couldn't move my legs and everything.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: So I was just trying to remember what it felt like because obviously red legs is a big part of rowing.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: So I was just trying to remember what that movement pattern felt like and just trying to join in with anything I had, and obviously it it didn't really work for a long time, but I was just trying and hoping that maybe those neural pathways were reconnecting one way or another.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: I suppose this is where the stubbornness came in because if I suppose you can ask, you know you could be asking people to do visualise it, or they could be thinking about it, and then you're not getting a result for what weeks and months?
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, month years, years till I got any kind of movement, yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: So, how did you motivate yourself on days when progress felt quite minimal then?
16:24
SPEAKER_01: Stubbornness.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I think I'd be lying if I said I was always motivated.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: There was times that I I obviously questioned, I was like, I'm not sure I can keep fighting.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: It was exhausting and and it it was a long road ahead, and kind of that light at the end of the tunnel just felt it was never gonna come.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: But I think for me it was I look I'd look around and see the people who were turning up who were there for the dark days holding my hand, you know.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: We had parties in my hospital room, they turn up in stupid outfits, like we made it fun, which doesn't seem quite right to put hospital and fun in the same sentence, but they and I just look at them and be like, they are my reason to keep fighting.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Because it was these things of sometimes the visualizations would be like standing to hug my mum again, or standing to hug my friends, or just getting to walk with them again, and all these kind of things I was like, I can't let go of that hope.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And it just kept me motivated that you know, I was at rock bottom.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: What did I have to lose?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it will turn out better than I ever could have imagined, and that's what I lived by, and that's what kind of kept me going because I was like, well, you know, maybe I'll be okay again, and I just wanted to find out what life could still mean.
17:34
SPEAKER_03: So but you mentioned earlier that there was the medical sort of report come back saying that you wouldn't walk again.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: So I'll you know just made around how difficult that is to because it would be very, very easy, I think, for someone to just give up hope at that point and just not do these visualisations and not and not people won't even believe in visualizations, I suppose, a lot of people.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: But if you've got that belief and that stubbornness which we've established, then yeah.
18:00
SPEAKER_03: So how but how difficult was it to fight that?
18:02
SPEAKER_00: It was hard, and I mean they were pretty honest.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And I remember at first kind of the medical teams tiptoeing around me a little bit, they didn't really want to tell me the brutal reality of what's going on, and I had to be like just put it to me, I need to know black and white, I need to know the facts, because then I can at least start to somewhat process it.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: And obviously they were like, Yeah, you've got really bad damage to a spinal cord, you're not gonna walk.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: You're Asia A, which basically means a complete spinal cord injury.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: And they just then told me, you know, that dream I made when I was 10 to go to the Olympics wasn't gonna happen, let alone getting it back in a boat, and and all these things were suddenly labelled as impossible.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: And it was hard, and I I did for a little while be like, why me?
18:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, why has this happened?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: What have I done to deserve this?
18:46
SPEAKER_00: But I remember thinking I just can't get stuck in that state because I can't sit here and dwell.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: I have a choice to either sit and and give up and never get better, or to fight and have the possibility and the chance to give myself to get better.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: And even if maybe five years down the line I make no progress, at least I'll be content in knowing that I've given it everything I've got to make that progress.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: So that again just kind of gave me a bit of a motivation and a spark.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: And as I said, being stubborn and being told you can't do something, you then more than ever want to go do it.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: So that also massively helped.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: You have a little step-by-step achievement list somewhere, or was it all in your head, or did you did you write it down somewhere visually, be like, Oh yeah, I've done that.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: Tick, next.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I actually came up with a goals list in a hospital, and I wouldn't show anyone it for a while because I was like, they cannot see this.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Because it was pretty crazy.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it started with I think the first thing on the list was survive, and then it was kind of you know, learn to feed myself a meal again, be able to say it full sentence, breathe unsupported because I had breathing support because my diaphragm was affected and all these things, and the the the goal list went on and on.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, the last few was climb um Snowden, and I think pretty sure it was Dur Trafflon and Run a Half Marathon were on the bottom.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And bear in mind at this point, I was paralyzed in a bed.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: It was they were ambitious goals, but again, I was like, you know what?
20:10
SPEAKER_00: What's the harm in trying?
20:12
SPEAKER_03: And with them goals, when you when you revealed them goals, was there I suppose there's a danger that you could have goals and people want you to accept that no, you maybe not reach them, do you know what I mean?
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was told a lot, not just by medical people, obviously everyone else, like they were like, you realize the reality here, you know.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Um they were these are very ambitious, they were thinking, you know, pretty impossible.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember thinking maybe, maybe they are, maybe I'm being a little bit delusional here, maybe I am just you know not accepting the reality.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: But for me, it it was just the way I worked.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: I've always been very goal-oriented, especially having them written down, like in sport we we thrive off goals, that's that's all we have.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think for me, I just was like, Well, you know what, what's the harm in trying?
20:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give it everything I've got.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: If I don't complete it, then okay, but you know, there could be a time that I do maybe achieve these things and maybe they aren't impossible.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: Maybe people are wrong.
21:05
SPEAKER_03: So, how long was it before or while you were doing these visualizations that you actually felt a response in your legs, was it?
21:13
SPEAKER_03: You were mainly visualizing in your feet?
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, so my legs didn't come back.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have any movement of my legs for three and a half years, just under maybe.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: So obviously there there wasn't anything really before that.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: I had had a little bit of sensation come back on my right foot, which was a very weird experience after not feeling it for for over three years, to suddenly feel part of your foot.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: It was very alien to me.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so they I mean they were the last thing to come back really.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, like arms and and core were a big one.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: But it took kind of a year to really see any sign of some bit of progress.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: So that was I think nothing big happened until after about a year in terms of movement wise.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: So it was it was quite a long road, and obviously I kept visualising, but there were times where I was like, is this stupid?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, am I just being naive here?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Do I need to give up that hope of walking, kind of redirect my my goals and everything?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: But there was just part of me that couldn't let go of that dream.
22:09
SPEAKER_03: So the initial injury was this all four limbs and fossility.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: No, so uh well, so both in the first injury, my both legs, yeah, my left arm were affected.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: So left arm was because of the brain injury, but both legs were because I had T2 spinal injury.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: So it was also my core.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: So like core and legs were were paralyzed um completely for that time until this year.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:30
SPEAKER_03: And so where does this you know the the spinal stroke?
22:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_03: This is on top this is on top of the injury.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: How long ago?
22:36
SPEAKER_03: How long after the injury was that?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So the XML.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: So it was about 18 months.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: But I'd come home at that point.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: I'd been home for maybe four months, maximum, four months.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, adjusting to life in a wheelchair.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: I'd kind of started to get to grips with it a little bit and find a life out there and started to rebuild my life, I guess, because as I mentioned before, like the grief and and there is things I then couldn't do when I was working all that, and then yeah, it wasn't long after I literally just got ill at home.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Quite a bit of a blur for me.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't really remember it.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: Next thing I knew, I was back in hospital.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: Was kind of awake during it and knew it wasn't good.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I knew something was pretty wrong.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think you just know.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: And I remember I was kind of dipping in and out of it at this point, and then just said to my mum, looked at her and was like, I love you, not knowing if I was ever gonna wake up.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: And then that was it.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And then two weeks later, I woke up, and then I got well, the horrible news that this was kind of take two, and and there's another life-changing injury.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: But I think in the sense that this was slightly harder to come to terms with because at this point they didn't know why, and they couldn't give me an answer straight away because obviously I just wanted to know like why has this spinal stroke happened?
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, We don't know, and that's the worst thing in the world when the medical professionals who you trust for your life don't know what's wrong with you.
23:51
SPEAKER_03: I was just gonna ask them, was it like was this a complication from the first injury or was it something totally unrelated?
23:56
SPEAKER_03: And they don't know.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: So they're they are unrelated in a sense, but they think like the mitochondrial condition I went on to be diagnosed with is basically you're normally born with it, and you normally die in in child like when you're a child.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: So for me, I wasn't born with it because I've had no signs of it whatsoever until they looked through all my hospital notes from after the kayak accident, and they were like, Oh, hold on, there's actually a few things here that match.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So they think possibly the severe trauma to my body, and especially my neurological condition, which the mitochondrial condition impacts, actually might have triggered this condition, and I could have had it all along, but it was kind of dormant, so we didn't know I had it, I wasn't symptomatic.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: But this severe trauma to it then made it an issue, and and it kind of became a thing.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: And the spinal stroke was literally I had a chest infection, and that's what caused it.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And then obviously it was months before I got diagnosed.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: So for I think three months I was in hospital, we had no idea what was wrong and what was going on, and it was countless and tests and and everything, but yeah, they had no answers for a long time.
24:59
SPEAKER_03: So how were you how were you mentally at that stage?
25:02
SPEAKER_03: Because obviously you've come out of you you've come out of hospital and gone back home and you you know you you've started to use a wheelchair and stuff, and then next thing you're back in hospital for three months, you know.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: I had to go for a I had to go for a blood test today.
25:15
SPEAKER_03: And I was been offering hospital for me, so and you're only there for months.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're not my favourite place.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: No, but it was a lot.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it it was it was heartbreaking for me and everyone around me, because I think I'd just kind of not come out the side of the the first injury, but started to realise that I was gonna be okay.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: And okay, life in a wheelchair isn't too bad, like I can still do these cool things, and I'd kind of got a taste of life after so long, and then to have it ripped away and my world turned upside down again was it was horrific, and it it was really hard, and there was a lot of hard days where especially just not knowing what was going on, and I just remember like pleading to my parents like please just find out what is wrong with me.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, at least I haven't if I have a name for it, I can fight it.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: At least if we know what's wrong, we can fight it.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Whereas the not knowing, and and that was a really hard stage to me, and it was kind of a waiting game.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: And at this point, we didn't know if I was gonna have another spinal stroke or if I was just gonna keep because during all this time I was just deteriorating, like I wasn't getting better, I was just getting worse and worse, and I was in intensive care for this whole time, and and it was scary, it was really, really scary.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, the spinal stroke was at C4, C5, so that's in your neck, so it's higher, and which had left me like completely unable to move.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember maybe in the first few days of being awake, like lying there, unable to move anything, and just thinking this cannot be the end of my story that I'm not ready, I'm not ready to die.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: And that was hard, and it came with a lot of complications as well.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Like I was very unwell, but I just most of all I just wanted to know what was wrong with me.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: Wow, how often?
26:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean so much different things.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Is this where they gave you the news of it being terminal as well?
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I actually ended up getting sent to a different specialist hospital in London, and they were doing tests for like six hours a day.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: It was a lot, it was brutal testing, and it was I even had tests where they removed eight centimetres of my quads to like go and test that.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I mean, I had comfort in knowing they were doing everything they could, but it was kind of a race against the clock of what's gonna happen first.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna figure out what's wrong, or I gonna succumb to this illness, that this mystery illness at this point, because I was just on a downward spiral.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: And then it must have been, yeah, three months after I'd had the spinal stroke.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: They came in to my room, and you kind of know, especially after spending that much time in hospital, you know when the news isn't good, like you can read them pretty well.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember them coming in and just putting taking bed chairs next to my bed, and that's always the first sign that this is not good.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: And then they kind of started talking, and they it kind of was a blur.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: But I remember hearing the word terminal, and I was like, What do you mean?
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Like this can't be terminal, and they like said the name of the condition, so it's called melas, so it stands for mitochondrial encephalopathy laptic acidosis stroke, and they were explaining it all, and I was just like, Cool, well, like we've got a name, what's cure?
28:07
SPEAKER_00: What treatment can I go through?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, I was still very optimistic at this point, clearly ignoring the word they just said because I was very much in denial.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: I was not going to accept that word at all, but it did then kind of feel like yeah, a taking time moment just been placed in my life.
28:21
SPEAKER_03: So, what was how long how long were you in the in the hospital then?
28:25
SPEAKER_00: In total, I think it was 11 months in total.
28:28
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: So, so after the diagnosis, they basically were like, I was put under palliative care.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so they're basically the team who take you if the condition you have or the illness isn't curable, and they're all about management.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: So it then became much more of a let's just manage your symptoms and see what happens.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: But I was told you're not going home.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: The priority was to like make memories with my friends and family, and that then became their focus.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: It was comfort and care.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And I remember the amount of times the doctors would come in, and I had photos all over my hospital walls of like my friends, my family, like me, who I was.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: And I remember begging them, being like, please look at these photos, that's me.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, there is more to me than this illness.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Please just help me fight it.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: Because at this point, I had very little control, I couldn't do much.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember being like, please find something that might work because I just remember being that I'm I was 21 at this point.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm not ready to die.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't want to die, I don't want this to be the end of my story.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: And I was petrified.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: It was it was a terrifying time, especially just not knowing what was gonna happen.
29:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, were you so at this stage?
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Are you still are you then going back to the visualizations and on the stubbornness and the sort of hope?
29:39
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think that was definitely still there.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: The visualizations also at this point became just I'd visualized it being back at home.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: They became less extravagant, maybe, but the simple things like yeah, being at home, like cuddling my dogs, they became a lot more of that because it kind of became the things that made me happiest that I'd visualize, and just longing to be able to do them again and hoping that you know maybe I would.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of it was there was a lot of dark moments of of kind of being like, I'm so exhausted, like I've been through not one but two life-changing injuries, and now I've got this diagnosis, and you know, they're saying like I'm not gonna survive.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I mean, no one can really you can't comprehend that you can't really process it, I don't think.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember thinking, I just need to get home, like whatever happens, I just need to go home.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Because hospital helps no one in that sense of like, you know, the foods, the sleep, like I was like, well, maybe that will help me.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was trying to find any sort of reason I could and and pretty solution driven, but I at this point I was I there was nothing I could do.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: So when you came home on this, was this because your condition had been improved, the symptoms were more manageable, or did you come home because it's like they couldn't do anything more?
30:53
SPEAKER_00: So there was a mix of reasons I came home.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, my family and I actually fought to bring me home.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Like my mum, who's a very good advocate and very good, like even more summer than me, and very good at sticking it up for herself and for me.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: She was like, I just need to bring my daughter home and we will make that happen.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: And it took about two months of planning.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And at this point, I was out of intensive care, but I was in and out of intensive care, like I was having seizures, and the condition what happens is if I get an infection, it causes a stroke and quite quickly can take over my body.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: And so this was happening quite a lot.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: So we they were throwing every drug they could at me under the sun and and just seeing what worked, but there was certain signs of improvement, like when I had the attacks.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Although I kind of wouldn't recover very well, I wouldn't get as bad as I did, like none of the we hadn't had anything as severe as the spinal stroke at at the original start of this part.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: So although I wasn't stable, they were kind of like, Well, we're not doing anything for you here.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: They were like, we will help you get home.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: But obviously, not being able to move and everything, I needed my house had to be all adapted completely, and then I needed full-time care because at this point, obviously, I can't do anything for myself and the seizures and everything.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: But they very much told us when I went home, expect to be back here in a week.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: So and then how long did you last at home?
32:08
SPEAKER_03: Did you go after go back at all?
32:10
SPEAKER_00: I did.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: No, we actually lasted.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: So I came home, it was now like just before Christmas.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: So I was really adamant I want to be home for Christmas, especially being told, like, you know, you might not survive this.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, I want Christmas at home.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: So I came home for Christmas.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: This was 2023, yeah, 2023.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: And so I came home for Christmas, and I think we lasted till about mid-January, and then I ended up back in hospital, but only for two weeks.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: And they actually then were like, Oh, okay.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: So it was an infection, my body reacted badly, and and I had a minor stroke, but I bounced back a lot quicker than I had with any of the other ones, and they were like, This is weird, it's normally you know a pretty linear downward path.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: Whereas you seem to have improved slightly, like your condition seems to improve.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: They were like, you know, have you done anything different?
33:00
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, well, I've been trying to do exercise.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: Because for me, that's as I said before, it's always my therapy.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: So although I couldn't really move, I had movement in my shoulders, my head.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, made things work and gave me some form of something I could do.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: So then things just started to improve slowly.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't kind of a sudden improvement, it was a very slow improvement.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: But my body started to deal with things a little bit better.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: I was put on a a different antibiotic that I then lived on, which seemed to be making a much better difference, like it seemed to be helping.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, little by little I just started to improve more and more.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if the the fact as as well as doing the exercise, uh the fact of actually spending some time at home, where where your comfort blanket is, where your dogs were, where your family was, and that that you started improving and your body was reacting differently because your mind felt safe.
33:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I completely agree.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: And I think also in hospital you can get institutionalised quite easily.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, there's white coat syndrome, like, or you know, you're always in a hospital gown, you hit you feel much iller in hospital because in hospital it's the norm to be unwell.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Whereas then I came home and I saw what my friends and you know my family were doing.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I want to do all these things.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I started trying to find ways to make it possible, and it took a lot of adaptations and everything, but I think that helped mentally as well.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, yes, okay, a lot of it was a physical thing, but mentally it really mattered where my mind was, and I knew if I wanted to recover or give myself the best possible chance, I knew I needed my head to be in a really strong mindset to to try and tackle what I was facing.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I mean I don't really like asking leading questions, but how much difference do you think that sort of positive and this sort of trait, a fighting trait that it sounds like your mum's got as well?
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even more so than I, I think.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think oh yeah, I think it it does play a big part, and and I was discussing it with someone recently.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'd be really interesting to see a study in in people with these life-changing injuries who were athletes beforehand and people who weren't, because I think I do put a lot of my recovery down to being an athlete in that mindset we were taught, and you know, I was athlete from a young age, and and I I grew up fast and everything, but I knew I had to work hard to get what I wanted from a very young age, and that was kind of drilled in me, so it was almost an automatic response.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think also a lot of it was I was very in the mindset of you know, they don't know much about this condition, it's very rare, you know, that I'm kind of one of the first presentations they've got of an adult who's who's got it later in life and everything.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: I was like, well, how can they really be telling me I'm going to die if they actually don't really know much about the illness?
35:36
SPEAKER_00: So I then started to view it in that way and be like, maybe they are wrong, you know, maybe I can be the first to to be okay and and all these things.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: Um where does it where does the ill illness on yourself stand now?
35:48
SPEAKER_00: So it's a complicated one, it will always be part of my life.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Like it it is always there, and obviously I have regular checks and everything, but it's stable.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And so I had stroke in February this year and ended back in hospital for eight weeks, nine weeks, but it was not nearly as severe as before.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: It had it did impact me a little bit, which is why I then had to stay in hospital.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: But actually, since then I've been the most stable medically that I've been since my diagnosis, and we have a pretty good pattern, and and I'm able to train and do all these things, and my body is okay.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: And I've even had an infection since and it didn't cause a stroke, which is a very good sign for me.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: But it is something I'll have to live with, and I guess we never really know what will happen with it, but I guess I could live in fear of it or just you know not let it define me and keep living my life, and whatever happens, happens.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Like I can't control that, so it comes down to control the controllables, and that's taken a long time to to kind of get my mind in that position.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: But but for me, I'm like, you know, okay, you say it is gonna take my life.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to spend those years in fear and not living.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, all I want to do is live my life to the fullest.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: This whole thing has changed my perspective massively, and I just prefer, yeah, to not let it define me.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: And and in all honesty, I don't even think about it that much anymore.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: I I kind of forget it's part of my life, which is quite nice.
37:08
SPEAKER_03: So is there any limitations you have to be be aware of?
37:11
SPEAKER_03: Is it just the medication?
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, obviously, infection is a big one.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: So avoiding infection.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very careful with kind of you know, if I get a cut or a scrape or a bruise, I have to be quite careful, especially being a rower and being on the temps, it's not the cleanest.
37:25
SPEAKER_00: So, and they were very adamant, like you should not be doing that.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: But again, comes down to that.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna live in fear and stop it from doing what I love.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: So it just means I have to make a few sacrifices, like you know, just gotta be really careful with certain things.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Um but I also live on antibiotics, so I live on on like preventative antibiotics, so it's not like an active dose you'd get if you were ill, but it helps my body to fight it straight away instead of basically turn against my body and cause a stroke.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: And it seems to be working, like, yeah, as I said, I've been well for for quite a while, quite a few months now.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: So it seems it seems to be working for what I think.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: Can can I just rewind a little bit?
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: You said you said you started walking again for the first time in April.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Was that correct?
38:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: April.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh May actually, yeah.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: May May.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I mean, not not walking for what three and a half years, four years.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: And then finally making these first steps.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: How did that make you feel?
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Did you feel I have one year?
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Well, it was emotional.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, so I actually uh like how it all came about is I had this joke in February and spent two months in hospital, and then I was like, I don't know, there was something about it, it's it's quite weird.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: I remember my dreams all were me in a wheelchair.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Then suddenly one day, while I was in hospital, I was still in ICU at this point, like this year, and suddenly all my dreams, I was walking, and I was like, Oh, this is weird.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, I wonder what's going on here.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: And my friend came in to visit me, and I was like, I'm gonna walk.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, I think you've got bigger things to like focus on right now.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go and walk.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: And my mum came that evening and I just went to her, we're gonna go and climb Snowden at the end of summer.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, What are you talking about?
39:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, clearly thinking I was on some sort of medication, but I just wholeheartedly believed it.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I just I think I'd always had this hope that I'd walk, but I didn't want to live my life waiting to walk.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: I kind of focused on living, and if I walk, I was like, great, but if I I need to focus on building a life, but all of a sudden I was like, this sudden feeling, I was just like, I know I'm gonna do it.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So I started going back to rehab, and I was I kind of had progressed over the years, like getting my arms back, getting my core back.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I had to started powering again and everything.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: And then going back to rehab, like it was incredible.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: I think it was three weeks into into the rehab, and I got to stand up again.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: And I didn't tell anyone I stood.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: So when I came home, I had like a weekend off and I came home.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And I literally, my mum came to like help me out the car and I just stood up, and she was like, What the hell?
39:46
SPEAKER_00: And all this, she starts crying.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: I start crying, and that was a very emotional moment.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Getting, you know, it's been three and a half years since I got to stand and hug my mum.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: And then I spent the whole weekend driving around to my friends' houses, knocking on their doors and just being stood up because also some of my friends had also never seen me stand, but it was it's one of my favourite memories of my life, like getting to just stand and hug my friends, and it motivated me more than I can even put into words to then take those steps.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: So I went back on the Monday back to rehab.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: We were doing like six hours of rehab a day.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: It was a lot, it was full on.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: And then kind of was about a month later, we'd attempted steps a few times, it hadn't gone well, there'd been a lot of falls, but we were on the beach because one of my big goals was also to get in the sea again.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: So they kind of like lifted me into the sea and I'd gone swimming because I felt so free in the water.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: And then I went to them and I was like, can we try and walk out?
40:37
SPEAKER_00: And they were like, right, you haven't even like succeeded two steps like on you know, flat normal land.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: Do you really want to try it on like a pebbly, sandy beach?
40:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, Yeah, like you know, what's what's the worst that can happen?
40:49
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, arm and arm, my physios are with me, and then I take two steps, and I was like, Okay, this is cool, kind of in shock here.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: And then some person on the beach also just starts filming it because I'm assuming they knew it was a big moment.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm very glad they did.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And then yeah, I went on and and and took a fair few steps up this this beach, and I just I'm completely in shock.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm just crying at this point, being like, I have actually just done this, and I remember just thinking, okay, if I can do this, there is no stopping me now.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, what more can I achieve?
41:21
SPEAKER_00: What more can I do?
41:22
SPEAKER_00: And I just it was a real I've made it moment, and I didn't tell my mum.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And I came home, came out of the car, and I needed like quite a lot of assistance.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Like my walking, obviously, you can imagine after three and a half years of walking, it's it's not great, but it's walking, and you know, she takes my arms, she's like, Oh, let me get your wheelchair.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: I was like, don't bother.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: And then me and her hand in hand, yeah, hand in hand, walk into the house together, and it was it was an amazing moment.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just seeing the world from that height again was was really weird because I was so I was just not used to it, and then yeah, I just I then at this point, being stubborn, was like, I'm not ever getting back in the chair.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: So I tried to walk everywhere, even if it took me about an hour to walk a few steps.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm just gonna keep on doing it, and then yeah, slowly but surely it just became better and better.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: And then we did Snowden at the end of summer.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: We went and walked up it in in September with my friends and my family, and that I think for me was was the biggest moment because that was the hospital goal list complete.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: So that goal list I made when I was told there was there was no hope, kind of then, yeah.
42:25
SPEAKER_01: So walking was on that list, and that was probably the final yeah.
42:29
SPEAKER_00: So so walking was yes, it was stand, hug my mum, walk, and then the very last one was Snowden.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: It always been my my goal with particularly with my mum to go and do Snowden.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Uh because I was like, why not?
42:42
SPEAKER_00: Sounds fun.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: And it was the kind of the last mount like hike I did.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I want to go back and do it.
42:47
SPEAKER_03: Did you have to queue at the top?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: No, we went um luckily not, we went in September when there was 50 mile an hour winds just to make it a little bit extra.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Just to make it spicy, yes.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so all the like you know, clever people stayed inside and didn't do it, but we we also had a film crew with us, so we were like, Well, we can't back out now, I can't exactly get the train up.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: So, so yeah, we went and we went and did that.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: What was it like when you first got back on the water?
43:12
SPEAKER_00: So I first got back in walking, I was still in a wheelchair, but I knew I was kind of struggling at this point, and I was like, I need something, and I was like, I know what I need, I need the water.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: It's always been my safe place, my home.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Like I love it.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: So my local club who I've I've been with for a while, were like, yeah, we'll make it happen, and all these adaptations, and yeah, just the feeling of being back in a boat.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there was lots of adaptations, but it was still rowing.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: And I pushed away from the side and obviously like watched myself leave that wheelchair on land.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it was the first time I'd been away, really, apart from being in bed, like being away from my wheelchair, and I found it so empowering.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: And I remember that's the first time I really kind of believed that I knew I'd be okay.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Like no matter what happened, I was like, I'm going to be okay.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, that goal I made when I was 10 now kind of was renamed into the Paralympics and that was the start of my Paralympic journey of rowing.
44:04
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and then it helped me a lot as well because it it became my outlet for everything that happened.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: It became my safe space to get the anger, the frustration, and every emotion out.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I got to to still do what I love just in a slightly different way.
44:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose that's quite for the mindset of just imagining that as you push away from the wheelchair for lack of like freedom, yeah.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's the first time I felt free because I felt so trapped in a wheelchair, and as I said, I've always been very independent and everything.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: And to lose that, I that is what I struggle with most.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: And to have that freedom again was the best feeling.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: And I just remember obviously all those times I pictured being back in a boat, and I was like, wow, okay, we're doing this.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: And then you know, I have never forgotten what it felt like to cross that finish line at international races.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: And now I was like, that's next.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: I need to get back on a star line, I need to to race.
44:53
SPEAKER_01: Have you created a new list?
44:57
SPEAKER_00: Can you share personal?
44:59
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, you can know.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: No one else knows actually.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: It was only completed, yeah, it was only completed recently.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's quite long, it's quite extensive, and it's a little bit crazy.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: We've kind of upped it.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: We've done so I did a triathlon recently, and that was on the list to do some triathlons and an Iron Man in particularly, and then kind of towards the end of the list is to just go and live and to see the world.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Because that's now my priority.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: Like step away from sport for a little bit, to after everything, give my body, give my mind a chance, and just to go live.
45:31
SPEAKER_00: But there's also things like skydiving on there and to do some other slightly ridiculous challenges and to do some other some other bigger mountains than Snowden, that's for sure.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, but those ones have to stay a little bit secret because my mum can't find out about that yet.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, so you're still quite adrenaline-driven.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: That hasn't even been.
45:52
SPEAKER_00: I think much to my mum's disapproval, that has not changed.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, I still very much have a thirst for adrenaline, but it will never change.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: Just the involvement with uh millimeters to mountains or we're at the a lot as well, yeah.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've been with them for the past three years.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: I've just graduated actually.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: Um so you're with them for three years as beneficiary, and I mean I spent most of my time in a wheelchair with them, but they break down a lot of barriers and we found ways to make things possible, maybe slightly unconventional ways, but it worked.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so they've been a huge part of it.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: And and I got to like surprise them and stand up, which was which was quite cool.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: And obviously, the last few few months to to go and walks with them again has been mad because none of them have ever seen me walk.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: Right.
46:33
SPEAKER_00: So they only knew me in a wheelchair, which is really wild.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: And now it's it's kind of not that I've forgotten that I was ever in a wheelchair, like I'm very you know, when I'm on the pavements, I still look out and be like, oh, that wouldn't be very nice and stuff like that.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: I think I always will.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Because it you see a whole different view of the world and and accessibility and everything, and it it's really eye-opening.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I always say with my friends, with most of my friends, I've taken them out for the day in a wheelchair just to because I think it's a really good social experiment for people to realise.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, M2M have been like a huge part of my journey, and I think especially the mental game, like they they taught me a lot about the importance of opening up and actually that I do have to face my emotions and talk about them, and that especially because I didn't have training to hide behind that I I had to face them head on.
47:19
SPEAKER_03: How inspirational would it have been to have because Ed Jackson's story would have been obviously individual hit to him, and but then the recovery process would have been that quite similar?
47:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, mindset.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he also was an elite rugby fan.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, he's got an incredible mindset.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's taught me a lot, and I think I always say to people, you when you have a a life-changing injury, you become part of a family.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: It's maybe not the family you ever want to be part of, but when you become part of it, you are so grateful for them because it's people like Ed Jackson who'd come out the other side, and I could look at him and be like, Wow, look at him doing all these cool things, and look where he is.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was at the start of my journey then, and now kind of I get to do that for other people, and that's what you realize with like people who've gone through life-changing injuries, you know, there's always someone that's kind of becomes a bit of a role model inspiration, and then you get to be that person for someone as well.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think actually it's it's it's humbling, but it's it makes it all worth it in a way.
48:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose I've met some it's weird, I've met some great friends through PTSD, but I never wanted to have I wouldn't have thought that I wanted to have a life changing PTSD, but then you meet these people, and for some reason this just this the this click and this bond because you're both on the same sort of wavelength, some of it can be quite dark humour, but oh yeah, completely exactly, and I think with M2M they've done that really well in the sense that you go into this group you've never met, you've all gone through different things, but you all know you've gone through something, and it's almost like you have this immediate bond, like some sort of like trauma bond, because you all get it.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: And I guess for people who haven't maybe gone through a mental health challenge or a physical challenge that they don't always understand, and it is quite hard for them to relate, but actually then being with those people, you just it's so comforting in a way because you just get it.
49:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think well, we wouldn't be here if we don't have had our zone problems, issues, challenges, and then being able to talk to people because I think it's you know obviously everyone's challenges are individual to them, but there is that yeah, you've been through so much, and you can talk about things openly, can't you?
49:15
SPEAKER_03: As we put something that hasn't haven't, and I know there's some some great people out there talking, but if you haven't been through, it's just having that perspective, isn't it?
49:23
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: I think yeah, and someone actually asked me very recently, actually at the weekend at Kendall Wells Fest and they were like, Oh, you know, if you could go back to the day of the kayak accident that started everything, would you still do the race?
49:37
SPEAKER_00: And I don't think I've ever thought about that.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think immediately I was like, no, I wouldn't go back and change it because although yes, it's it's been horrendous for years, it's been hard and it's been a roller coaster, but also the things I'm doing now, the person I am now, I wouldn't be without it, and I wouldn't have met the people I have, and uh it's changed my whole perspective of life.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: Like now life I view very differently, and you know, I just want to live every day to the to the max, and and I don't think I'd be in the same position if I hadn't have faced it all.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: So actually, I wouldn't ever change it.
50:11
SPEAKER_03: What a sort of humbling and fantastic sort of outlook that is, and sort of attitude to what you've gone through.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: It's taken a long time to get to that point, but yeah, it's it's I can honestly say it at hand on heart now, every battle I had to face is is beyond worth it to be where I am now and get to you know call life beautiful again and and see all these amazing things and just yeah, get to live.
50:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose it's pretty cool.
50:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I suppose that appreciation of life and what you know after nearly losing it, yeah, of it being taken away from you and the injury and then and then building that resilience.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: So what's yeah, and we take a lot for granted as well, and and you never realise that until you lose it.
50:49
SPEAKER_00: And I think now it's silly things like you know, before I go out the house or before I leave, like I'll I'll make sure I hug my dogs and I hug my mum, and I'm I'm a much more loving and caring person now than I was, just because yeah, I know what it feels like to always lose it all.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: So now daily gratitude.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's and it's and now I get to my my job also is obviously working with people who are in the midst of it and having come out the s other side, and I find it really humbling, and I wouldn't have gone on that career path if I hadn't gone through what I went through.
51:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: So what's uh what's next then?
51:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh well I uh I head off to New Zealand in three weeks.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
51:29
SPEAKER_00: So that's next.
51:30
SPEAKER_00: So um a lot of my visualization was taking me to other countries, and I always promised myself when I'm better, I'm gonna go travel, I'm gonna go and do it.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: And I actually booked my flight to New Zealand a one-way ticket before I was even walking because I was like, I I just believed, I was like, you know what?
51:46
SPEAKER_00: Let's just book it.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: So and it gave me something concrete to really focus on, and like putting that message out into the world, being like, I'm gonna do this.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, in in yeah, December 15th, I leave for a year.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow to go and travel.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gone for a year.
51:59
SPEAKER_00: So I'm in New Zealand and Australia, and I'll be working out there for a little bit for yeah, at least a year, which is crazy, but I'm excited to just yeah, as I said, to go live, take a break from from sport and all that pressure, but also just to give myself time away from the environment where it reminds me of the last few years the most, and just to go and enjoy life again.
52:19
unknown: Yeah.
52:19
SPEAKER_03: What about in Australia with the bit?
52:21
SPEAKER_03: Do you know?
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, so in museum first in Auckland, then I fly to Australia.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh my best friend actually lives in Sydney, so I'm there for a little bit.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: But I have a job where I get to go to three different locations, so Sid Sydney, Gold Coast, and Perth.
52:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'll definitely be going there, but I'm gonna travel around a fair bit and definitely do like East Coast, and I want to do some of the west as well.
52:41
SPEAKER_00: So but I'm kind of just seeing where the wind takes me.
52:43
SPEAKER_00: I haven't already put my skydive.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna happen.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: No, that's at the top of the East Coast uh Mission Beach.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to do that.
52:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was that was put quite early on as well.
52:54
SPEAKER_00: But my mum's also yet to know about that part, but she can land.
52:57
SPEAKER_03: All right.
52:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, this will be out in this will be out after you've set off, so that'll be cool.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
53:04
SPEAKER_00: I was taught someone was telling me that in New Zealand it's the best place to learn how to solo skydive.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: So now I'm looking into that as well.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
53:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
53:12
SPEAKER_03: So it's non-stop, but it's great to see, you know, this this hatch field that's carried you through and looks like it's going to keep carrying you through.
53:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a positivity that's carried you through, and uh what what I find really amazing.
53:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean your story is extraordinary, but what I find amazing that you now work with people who are going through a difficult time themselves and you're sharing your positive story because it is a positive story, your mental resilience is like no one else is, it's so strong, and you're sharing that with with other people who need that help.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: I love my job, and I I work with kids in particular who've gone through these life-changing things, and I find it humbling, like kids are so resilient and they just keep going.
53:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they they've taught me a a lot, and I coming out of the side, I knew I wanted to use what I'd been through in some way.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to use it, yeah, for my career, so I want something that helps others, and I just yeah, fell into it for what I do, and and it's it can be hard at times, but also I remember thinking like if I'd had a physio come up to me and be like, I've been through this, I understand, I get it, and I'm on the other side, I it would have made a the world of difference.
54:21
SPEAKER_00: So if I get to do that for just one other person, then you know it's it's all worth it because all I want is for them to know that okay, their life might be different, but it's not over.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: No matter what their ability is, it's not over.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Like disability doesn't mean less than or anything.
54:38
SPEAKER_00: And I definitely learned that my life in a wheelchair could still be amazing, and I got to do all these cool things, and I want them to know that as well, that it's not over.
54:47
SPEAKER_03: Brilliant.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for joining us.
54:49
SPEAKER_03: Honestly, what a story.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: I just love that.
54:52
SPEAKER_03: I just love the visualization stuff.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you the thing is you can't measure it and find out how much of that.
54:58
SPEAKER_03: I just yeah, believing in the subconscious and and the conscious thoughts and how much is connected and how much of that recovery, a physical recovery, is down to that positive mental attitude.
55:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'd love to know.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know.
55:12
SPEAKER_03: I guess we never will, but no, but if we don't try it, yeah, this is the thing, innit?
55:16
SPEAKER_03: Because I think I think I know there were periods at my mind with the PTSD where I was just like, no, I'm just you know what I mean, just floundering in my own misery, really.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: But you know, when you start getting out there and start look thinking more positive and taking actions off just in thoughts, then things can change.
55:31
SPEAKER_03: So agree.
55:32
SPEAKER_00: It's never too late to start, that's for sure.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we've all got to start somewhere, so cool, right?
55:37
SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: Um what a wonderful story.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: Inspiring, yes.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: All the best.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh we need to we need to send you the um white fox talking mug.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: So it's you'll get the uh you'll get the new model as well.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the doctor's in Australia, so I could send it there and you pick it up, but it's up to it.
55:54
SPEAKER_03: Brilliant, thank you very much.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Take care.
55:58
SPEAKER_02: And if you would like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to buyers a coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefootstalkie.com, and look for the little coffee.
56:09
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.