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Everyday Trance III: The Mechanics - Kant, Husserl, Vipassana · Gabriel Ellis, PhD | The Curious Mind Podcast

0:02
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Curious Mind
0:04
podcast. Today I deal for the first for
0:08
the third time, with the phenomenon of everyday trance.
0:13
I've described it as a concept that a psychologist and
0:17
therapist, Stephen Wolinski, came up with in his
0:21
understanding. Our daily life is dominated by
0:27
US going through different kinds and different versions of
0:31
trans's, and this perspective is in contrast to the normal
0:36
understanding of trans that usually appears in the form of
0:40
hypnosis or hypnotherapy. So according to Bolinsky, our
0:46
states of mind are usually more or less deep states of minds of
0:52
trans throughout our everyday lives.
0:55
And this makes us to project our emotional states or the
1:01
experiences that we've had in the past onto the experiences in
1:06
daily life so that they become more narrow.
1:11
We perceive ourselves to be more tight and rigid and are highly
1:16
influenced by our projections, by our emotional states.
1:21
In the last episode then I started to describe a more
1:25
complex understanding of the everyday trance and how it
1:29
works. And today I will go deeper into
1:32
the psychological and philosophical foundations, into
1:35
the mechanics and the design of the everyday trance, so that it
1:39
becomes more understandable how this freaking thing works.
1:44
At the beginning, I want to clear up a misunderstanding.
1:47
When I talk about attitudes, emotions and feelings and how
1:51
they are essential contributions to our everyday trances, I mean
1:57
to say that most of them are probably unconscious and only
2:01
part of them are conscious. Especially when it comes to
2:06
feelings and emotions. This can lead to
2:08
misunderstandings. Emotions are usually considered
2:12
to be unconscious. They can be conscious as well.
2:15
Whereas feelings. The term feelings is usually
2:18
preserved for the more conscious aspects of our emotional
2:23
affective States and this has been acknowledged by most
2:29
psychological traditions, even if they didn't want to.
2:32
So to give a brief summary, obviously Sigmund Floyd, who
2:37
also had in his education a lot of experience with hypnosis, he
2:44
understood the unconscious to be the main contributor to our
2:48
daily experiences. And so for him, obviously the
2:51
unconscious and unconscious emotions were very important.
2:55
Afterwards, after him, there were psychological traditions
2:59
that wanted to use as little as possible of this notion of the
3:04
unconscious, but even they could not really get rid of this
3:08
concept, this understanding. It is too necessary to explain
3:12
our actual feelings or actual behaviors.
3:16
We cannot get away from the idea of the unconscious.
3:20
So cognitive behavioral therapy, which usually does not deal much
3:24
with unconscious, it also has to concede and it has found the the
3:28
term for it, which is implicit emotions.
3:31
This is what they call it. Neuropsychology has the term the
3:35
concept of subcortical emotions, which means that they assume
3:40
that there are emotions who do, which do not activate the
3:47
cortex, which is the part of our brain that is mostly responsible
3:51
for our conscious differentiated life and perceptions, so that
3:56
those emotions stay subcortical in the more primitive state
4:02
parts of the brain, but are still affecting us.
4:06
What does it mean in practice? This means that people who don't
4:09
consider themselves emotional because they don't find strong
4:13
feelings when they look inside themselves, they are guaranteed
4:16
to be wrong everyone. Also people who seem not to be
4:20
emotional because they don't feel and they don't display
4:24
display many feelings. They are also guided by
4:29
unconscious or if you will, subcortical emotions.
4:35
OK, now that's that cleared up. I will now talk about the
4:39
mechanics of the trans, the design of the trans, and for
4:43
this I need 4 important building blocks and I will go.
4:48
I will first name them and then I will go bit by bit into those.
4:53
The first bit that we need is the distinction between
4:55
consciousness and the contents of consciousness.
4:59
The second bit that we need is a blurred present, obviously.
5:04
I will describe what I mean with that.
5:05
The third part, the third aspect that we need is a present that
5:10
turns out to be the past. And the fourth one is the need
5:14
to be able to make decisions quickly and robustly.
5:18
All of those four parts are essentially necessary to get to
5:24
come to the everyday trance as a daily, as a normal phenomenon.
5:30
OK. The first is the distinction
5:32
between consciousness and the contents of consciousness.
5:37
I distinguish these in the following way.
5:43
The contents of consciousness is everything that can be
5:45
experienced. In contrast, consciousness is
5:49
the medium or the vessel in which everything that can be
5:52
experienced, experienced takes place.
5:55
So it's basically the distinction between the vessel,
5:59
the form and what is inside of this vessel.
6:04
But this vessel is not neutral. Consciousness does not allow all
6:08
kinds of and any kinds of experiences.
6:11
It is structured consciousness. The vessel of consciousness is
6:16
structures structured and allows only certain experiences.
6:23
Immanuel Kant, the German philosopher of the 18th century,
6:26
he examined these structures of experience in the book that he
6:30
wrote, The Critique of Pure Reason, and he showed that the
6:34
mind cannot help but to give experiences certain forms, and
6:39
he called those forms transcendental categories.
6:44
Transcendental means what makes it possible to have experiences
6:51
at all, and the categories are the shapes that they take.
6:56
OK, to give you some examples of those Kantian transcendental
7:00
categories, 1 is temporality, which means we cannot help but
7:05
to experience in time. We have no choice in this.
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This is what consciousness does, it experiences in time.
7:14
Another example is speciality. We experience in space quantity
7:19
that we distinguish if something is singular or we can count
7:26
there are many objects and so on.
7:28
So there is the quality of there is the structure of quantity.
7:34
Quality is another one. And the last one that I pick
7:37
out, there are a dozen or so categories that he mentions.
7:42
A last one that I want to mention is causality.
7:45
It's normal for us to see events in the terms of cause and
7:51
effect. This is not something that we
7:53
choose. This is something that
7:55
consciousness is offering up to us.
7:59
So these categories are necessary so that in the end,
8:03
all of our experiences are possible.
8:05
But his transcendental categories, like the examples
8:08
that I mentioned, are very abstract, they're very logical
8:11
and they're not oriented towards the psychological reality of us.
8:17
The category is relevant for our daily experiences.
8:20
We find them first formulated in Buddhism, which is about 2500
8:25
years ago in the concept of the five so-called khandas.
8:30
And the foreign terms that I name now are in Pali.
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This is the oldest Buddhist language.
8:37
So there are 5 khandas in the Buddhist texts.
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The 1st is Rupa. This is the category of material
8:44
phenomena, so we experience matter in terms of being solid
8:51
or liquid, that it has a temperature and movement, for
8:54
example. The second category is betana.
8:59
These are feelings, so that each experience has an emotional tone
9:05
and emotional underpinning. The third is Sonia, which are
9:09
sensory perceptions, our hearing, seeing, touch,
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sensations or sense of equilibrium and so on.
9:19
The 4th category is Sankara, which are it's a category of
9:24
volitional phenomena, for example, interests, attitudes,
9:28
intentions, longings, desires. All of this is encompassed in
9:33
the category of sankara. And the last category is
9:38
binyana, the category of consciousness.
9:41
All of these, just like the Cantian transcendental
9:44
categories are, and this is how I call them the Buddhist
9:48
transcendental categories. It's not something that we
9:51
choose if we have want to have an emotion or if we want to have
9:56
a central perception. This is how consciousness, this
10:00
is how the mind, the spirit structures our experiences.
10:05
So we cannot help but have experiences of materiality, of
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emotionality, of sensual perception, and of will and
10:14
attitude. We still need one category that
10:18
is not explicitly mentioned in Kant as a category, and also not
10:23
in Buddhism. And we still need it in to
10:27
complete the puzzle, so to speak, of our normal everyday
10:31
experiences, which is an ego structure.
10:34
So a transcendental eye. This is not the eye in the sense
10:38
of my personality that I'm an extrovert or that I'm easily
10:42
hurt or something like that. But it needs add some kind of
10:46
eye. If I have an experience,
10:48
essential experience, if I see something, this automatically
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refers to the experienced Sir, which we cannot escape this
10:58
understanding that an experienced Sir is having an
11:01
experience. This is the transcendental eye.
11:05
Even though Kant did not include it into his categories, he still
11:12
mentioned a transcendental eye and the philosophers who came
11:16
directly after him, for example, Fichte, Schelling and Hegel, who
11:21
I sometimes mentioned, they also spoke of a transcendental eye in
11:25
their specific philosophies. So this is the last puzzle piece
11:29
because it is necessary in order to reconstruct our daily
11:34
experiences. Usually the just as a side note,
11:40
the Buddhist kandas are not seen as a transcendental category.
11:44
So we'll, you'll not find articles or YouTube videos about
11:48
that. So this is a novel approach that
11:50
I want to contribute. And I think it's really
11:53
necessary to see it in this way because the interest of Buddhism
11:58
was, was to describe how our experience is pieced together so
12:04
that eventually it can help us to distance ourselves both from
12:09
the actual experiences, but also from the categories of our
12:12
experiences in the search for ultimate liberation.
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This is just the Buddhist perspective.
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OK, So this was my first point, distinguishing the structure of
12:23
consciousness from the actual contents, which is the red rose
12:27
and the jealous neighbour and so on.
12:29
These other contents of consciousness which have a
12:34
specific structure that is directed that is just a feature
12:41
of consciousness. The second aspect, the second of
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the four aspects that are necessary in order to understand
12:47
the everyday trance is the smeared presence.
12:52
In order to demonstrate what I mean with that is if you take
12:55
any rapid movement, you can take your hand and wave it in front
12:58
of your eyes. You can take a tennis ball, you
13:01
can you can take cars that are moving on the road.
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Any kind of quick movement in front of your eyes will leave a
13:09
trail behind it. It's like an echo that you see.
13:14
And for the sake of simplicity, I will leave an links to
13:18
articles in the description of this podcast, which much more
13:22
detail. Obviously, there's a lot of
13:24
research, neurophysiological research that has been done
13:28
about it. But let's say that this trail,
13:30
this echo is about 0.1 seconds long.
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This means that in our experience, the present or the
13:39
moment present time is not a point in time, like, for
13:45
example, it is for physicists, where the present almost doesn't
13:49
exist. It's immediately goes from past
13:52
to future, but it's a period of time.
13:55
So we cannot help but to experience the present.
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Time is a period of time. This is how the mind is
14:02
constructed. William James, an early
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psychologist of the late 19th century.
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He called this the fading echo as early as 18901990.
14:14
Sorry. In one of his publications,
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which is the fading echo in the apparent present, he called it
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the species present, the apparent present, a
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phenomenologist or in fact the founder of modern phenomenology,
14:30
Edmund Hussal. He was influenced in that
14:34
respect by William James and he took the concept from James and
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developed it in the early 20th century.
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He describes that there is a primal impression in which the
14:44
sensory perception enters consciousness and this primal
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impression directly goes into its retention.
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These are terms that he coined so 1 the primal impression, and
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then it directly leads to its retention.
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Retention means that the primal impression that we have
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experienced right now does not disappear immediately, but fades
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into the background for a short time, leaving this smear behind
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that you see when you are carefully observing a fast
15:19
moving object. So retention is not a memory in
15:25
the sense that I tried to recall how the car looked like that
15:28
just passed in front of me. It's an integral part of the
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immediate perception, the conscious reliving of the
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immediate past. And very importantly, retention
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ensures that we perceive our experience as continuous and not
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as a flicker, as is the case, for example, with film
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recordings that have less than 15 frames per second.
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When we see such a recording with let's say 10 frames per
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second, then we don't perceive a flow, but we perceive the actual
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frames. And so that this doesn't happen
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to us. Retention makes sure of the flow
16:14
of our experience. The physiologists or the
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philosophers that deal with this specific approach, they also
16:23
call it the cinematic approach precisely because we take the
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metaphor of the frames per second from the film and we
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applied to the mind as well. And it's also called the
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snapshot theory for the exact same reason.
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So for this trail, the smearing or the retention to work, the
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present must additionally not only consist of snapshots that
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move in time, but they also must be layered on top of each other,
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the layers on top of each other. They allow the reacting
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consciousness a short thinking time before reacting.
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What does it mean? So as I said before, our present
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time is about 0.1 seconds. This is what we experience in
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the 0.1 seconds. And now slightly later we have
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this bit. What moves into the future is
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slightly cut off. Something from the past moves a
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little bit into our frame, but at the same time we have
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available the very piece that has just disappeared at a
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different layer underneath and we perceive them at the same
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time. And this gives us, so to speak,
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a deep or a multi dimensional perspective.
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This is how our reality feels so real that we have many available
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layers at the same time. This is the basic of the smeared
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presence. There are many publications
18:00
about it. Again, you will find a link
18:02
below. Just keep in mind, so you don't
18:06
have to understand the precise mechanics of this or the precise
18:09
numbers of this, but you have to keep in mind that the smeared
18:12
present applies to all the cognitive categories, so to all
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the senses. So there is a smeared present
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not just for the visual but also for the auditory impressions
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that we have, for the touch sensations that we have, but
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also to all the other condas, all those other psychological
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categories that I mentioned. So this is very important for
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feelings, for emotions that we have, they are also smeared,
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they are also layered. And the same goes with memories
18:45
and tensions and so on. OK, so this was the second
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aspect that is necessary to understand for the everyday
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trans, the smeared presence. The third aspect is the present
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that turns out to be the past. Hussal, the same phenomenologist
19:03
of the beginning of the 20th century, he worked out an
19:06
important consequence of retention or the smeared
19:10
present, namely that our perceived present is actually
19:14
always a perception of the immediate past.
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This is, I think, clear if you understand a little bit about
19:22
how our brain works. In order to create a conscious
19:25
experience, there has to be a little bit at least of a
19:28
processing so that even though time moves forward, all our
19:35
psychological reality actually takes place in the immediately
19:40
past. Past, right?
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It's as if I'm moving forward, but I'm going backwards so that
19:49
I don't see what is happening next to me, which would be the
19:53
actual present. I don't have access to the
19:55
actual present and for sure I don't see what is ahead of me.
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So I have no actual experience of the future, even if it seems
20:05
to be so when someone throws a ball at me and I seem to see how
20:11
this ball will move forward towards me.
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This is just a reconstruction of the mind.
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I am not seeing the future. What I see is the anticipation
20:23
of the future. So what I basically actually see
20:29
walking backwards is like a waterfall of the immediate past.
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I see the earliest available immediate past and then I see
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the retention of it. This, let's say, for simplicity,
20:44
0.1 seconds of the past. So the present and the future
20:51
are in principle unattainable for us.
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But since we have to survive, the Organism has to construct a
21:01
rough version of the present and of the future so that it allows
21:06
us to navigate the reality, our relationships, our family, work,
21:11
needs for security, and so forth.
21:14
So the mind is creating a reality that pretends for us to
21:19
be in the present. It pretends that we can
21:22
accurately anticipate the future we live towards, a future that
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we seem to see. But what it actually does is to
21:31
take the data of immediately past events to create this
21:36
reality or this illusionary reality.
21:41
This is not only philosophical insight from works of Hussal,
21:46
for example, or psychologists or brain researchers who came after
21:50
him, but we can also gain this insight through very sensitive
21:54
observation. And this is precisely what
21:57
Buddhist insight or Bipassana meditation is about, the precise
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observation of the experienced present one of these levels, and
22:07
they have been described many levels in the development of the
22:10
Pasana insight. One of these levels, an insight
22:14
is called the knowledge of dissolution.
22:18
You can read about it in a book that is published, The Progress
22:23
of Insight by a meditation master, but Burmese meditation
22:27
master Mahasi Sayidor, who was the eminent Pasana teacher of
22:32
the 20th century. But this was already described
22:35
in the meditation manual from the 5th century.
22:39
So in kind of the Buddhism that followed after the immediate
22:43
phase of early Buddhism in the so-called Visudi Maga translated
22:48
the Path of Purity. Also, I'll also link, leave a
22:51
link for that work in the description.
22:55
So the knowledge of these insight stages has been there
22:59
all along as long as people have done those very precise, very
23:04
subtle insight vipassana meditations.
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The stage, the knowledge of disillusion, is a stage in which
23:13
the meditator sees that everything that is experienced
23:17
in an instantaneous is an instantaneous passing, so that
23:24
everything just flows away and gets dissolved into the past.
23:30
And this direct immediate realization, it triggers some of
23:34
the text and instinctive fear or panic because it is seen by the
23:40
meditator not just as an intellectual concept, but as an
23:45
inescapable truth. In one of my own long term
23:50
meditation retreats, retreats, I reached this stage once.
23:55
And not only did my experience dissolve into this waterfall in
24:00
the immediate past, this was my experience, but also the
24:02
experience of my own self, of the observer, which is of course
24:06
a special case of experience. So both the experienced content,
24:12
but also the observer, this transcendental I, the
24:16
transcendental ego also, this was falling away in the
24:20
waterfall. And so there arose in me as a
24:23
consequence of this, an instinctive and instinctual deep
24:27
fear, because it became clear in this moment that there is
24:32
nothing to cling to, neither attitudes nor insights nor
24:37
images of myself or the world. Everything is this waterfall of
24:41
dissolution and there is only the eternally passing immediate
24:46
past. Now this insight, I keep this
24:50
memory of it, but it needed this long term retreat to get there.
24:55
So for me now, this is just a past insight.
24:58
I cannot just go there. I cannot just reach it.
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But probably this is good for daily life because it's
25:05
pragmatic. It's practical to keep the
25:08
illusion alive that I'm living in the present moment.
25:11
OK, So we have to anticipate the future based on the past
25:16
available to us and then adjust the calculation.
25:19
This is what the mind unconsciously does, or the brain
25:22
depending on how you see it. We adjust the calculation of our
25:26
reality based on how good our projection was.
25:31
And this calculation or anticipation can only be based,
25:35
as I pointed out, on the past and specifically on pattern
25:40
recognition, because it's safer to make prediction based on past
25:46
patterns then to make prediction based on single events.
25:51
And this means that we are already knee deep in the
25:54
projection of our inner world, because the main function of
25:59
this inner world is to deal with the limitation of our access to
26:04
the outside world, which means to anticipate and interpret the
26:08
present and the future based on our past.
26:14
This is why we are usually glad when we can identify laws or
26:19
patterns through experience or through intense reflection that
26:23
were true in the past and might be true in the future.
26:26
Whether our interpretations are based on scientific methods or
26:31
intuitive methods, no matter how we do it, no matter how we look
26:36
into the past, find patterns and apply them to the present and to
26:39
the future, they have one thing in common.
26:42
Consequential predictions take up a lot of our conscious
26:46
capacity. This applies to small children.
26:50
When they try to stand up, you can see it in the faces, in the
26:53
whole body, how concentrated they are.
26:55
They're trying to do something that for us is trivial, but for
26:59
them they are approaching something new, something that
27:03
they cannot confidently do. So they reserve a lot of
27:06
conscious capacity to that activity to be able to stand up,
27:10
to be able to crawl, to be able to walk.
27:14
They obviously, they do it partly with whatever available
27:20
consciousness that they have, but they have to rely on this
27:24
very basic functions like movement.
27:26
They have to rely on muscle memory as well a lot.
27:30
And this applies just as much to the development of adult
27:35
creatures like the theory of relativity, recognizing red
27:38
flags when you're dating or when making complex management
27:42
decisions at work. When we face a new problem, a
27:47
lot of the capacity of our mind is consumed by it.
27:52
We try to activate all the available experience or memory
27:57
that we have, try to project it onto the problem.
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The issue that is that we face right now, and we hope that
28:06
something sticks. And if it doesn't, we have to
28:09
rethink, reassess, create new hypotheses and try them again.
28:15
If I fall down by balancing on the left foot, maybe I will try
28:19
the right foot. This is the intuitive process
28:23
that the child does. This is the intuitive process
28:26
that we do also as adults. OK, so far so good.
28:31
I think it does make sense, if you see that way, that we have
28:35
to rely on our past experiences in order to project them onto
28:40
the the, the created reality, the fabricated reality of the
28:47
present and the anticipation of the future.
28:50
But this does not make clear yet why we are so irrational
28:56
sometimes and especially when we develop mental issues, when
29:01
we're depressed, when we're anxious, because so far
29:04
everything seems to just make sense.
29:07
So we need the 4th aspect in order to create this everyday
29:11
trance that can turn dysfunctional.
29:14
We need to be able to make decisions quickly and robustly,
29:19
even if we make mistakes, in order to be able to consciously
29:24
make those complex considerations about the future,
29:28
about works, relationship and ourselves.
29:31
Like I said, we need to ensure that we do not simply freeze
29:37
during those complex calculations, like a robot whose
29:40
working memory is overloaded. We need to be able to function
29:44
and to make decisions in spite of this.
29:48
In other words, the countless small decisions that we have to
29:52
make in order to proceed in the flow of life, the things that we
29:59
say in the moment, the things that we do, how we work, how we
30:04
survive. In general, it requires an
30:07
extremely quick process with assessments, judgements and
30:12
evaluations that have immediate access, access to all our past
30:18
experiences and does not use up a lot of the conscious capacity.
30:23
Because whether we have all our, you know, differentiated problem
30:29
solving skills available or not, we still have to be able to
30:33
walk, to quickly assess the danger of a situation, to
30:37
quickly react in a conversation. All of these things have to, we
30:43
rely on them being available even on autopilot when we're
30:48
half asleep, when we're barely there.
30:51
And because this process has to ensure our quick ability to act,
30:56
our spontaneous, instantaneous ability to act, it's better for
31:01
it to be undifferentiated, rough and flawed, accrued but very
31:08
robust process. And for that, this is what needs
31:15
to be ensured. And for that we need precisely
31:17
the unconscious emotions. They construct a rough fantasy
31:23
world that is robust, that helps us to structure what we are
31:29
seeing, that helps us to differentiate what I should
31:33
focus on and what not. When I'm crossing the street, I
31:37
am filtering out the houses and the balconies and so on, and I'm
31:42
focusing on the movement of the cars.
31:44
I'm not paying attention to the kids I'm walking next to me.
31:48
I'm not paying attention to the color of the cram.
31:51
I'm focusing on very specific aspects of my experience.
31:55
And this filtering, even though I might not perceive it so, is
31:59
based on an emotional assessment of the situation that tells me,
32:05
that signifies to me what is currently important and keeps me
32:10
alert so that I can quickly, on reflex, on autopilot, react to
32:15
the situation. So in this category fall also
32:19
the basic beliefs about me, about the world, about people.
32:23
They help us to structure social experiences.
32:26
The same with attitudes and emotions that help me to further
32:31
condense my reactions to the challenges of the outside world.
32:36
And these are precisely the aspects that accompany our
32:39
everyday trance. And this is what gets in the way
32:43
of our attempt to develop a healthy perception of the world
32:47
and of ourselves. Why?
32:49
Because it's necessary that I have a quick perception and the
32:53
quick perception is not necessarily a healthy
32:57
perception. OK, I will stop at this point.
33:02
To sum it up very briefly, and this is very condense condensed.
33:08
All of the four points that I mentioned that are necessary for
33:11
everyday trans. You will find whole books
33:14
written of them. They have not been put together.
33:17
As I relate them to you now, they are researched in separate
33:23
ways. For me, this is the attempt to
33:26
make sense of the everyday trance and to explain to you
33:30
what aspects of our conscious and unconscious phenomena are
33:34
necessary ingredients for that. To sum it further up what I told
33:39
you just now, in a world without a present, because we can only
33:45
perceive the immediate past, the Organism creates an experienced
33:52
blurred present. This is the time period that you
33:58
could experience as a time present that contains a buffer
34:02
of a short reflection period. We need this time period so that
34:06
the reacting consciousness has the material available that it
34:10
can react to in order to create the fantasy of a reality.
34:17
Because again, we don't perceive the present time, we don't
34:20
perceive a reality. This is all concepts that the
34:24
structure of the mind is imposing on our unconnected
34:29
experiences based on the experiences of the past in which
34:34
the fantasized individual, because also I am an object in
34:40
the world that the mind is creating so that the fantasized
34:43
individual can navigate his or her life.
34:48
OK, I think this was complex enough.
34:51
If you're interested in details, look up the links that I offered
34:56
you in the description. Re listen to some of the
34:59
passages if you didn't get them the first time.
35:03
And obviously there is one important question that I have
35:06
not addressed yet in detail. They may exactly how the
35:10
emotions do this and why the emotions do this, why it is so
35:15
robust, tough to change and misleading at the same time.
35:19
And this will be the content of the next episode.
35:23
I hope you that you have understood enough of this kind
35:26
of abstract level so that you can follow and understand the
35:30
next piece which will make sense of how emotions work.
35:35
And then in the episode after that, I will finally come to the
35:38
point how we can minimize the influence of dysfunctional daily
35:44
trances. In the description, you will
35:47
also find a link to conversations that I offer for
35:53
free as kind of sneak previews for therapies that you might be
35:58
interested in to have with me. You know, obviously in the
36:03
therapies, I don't go into the abstract theoretical depths of
36:08
those content contents that I've mentioned to you.
36:11
But the learning experience from this, the fact that we are
36:16
usually trapped in everyday trances and how to get out of
36:21
it. Of course, this also is part of
36:25
the therapies that I conduct because I think that are
36:28
essential to as tools to understand and to apply when to
36:33
take, when we want to take ourselves out of depressive,
36:37
anxious, less confident states where we feel that we are not
36:42
loved, not worthy, and so on. Those phenomena of everyday
36:46
transfers, they are included in this.
36:49
And so I use the practical aspect of what I have described
36:53
today in the therapy sessions. So if you're interested in that,
36:57
follow the link in the description there.
37:00
I hope it was interesting to you.
37:02
Let me know if you have the specific questions or comments
37:06
and I hope to see you next time. See you then.