Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 079 - The Art of Connection: A Conversation with Headshot Photographer Peter Hurley

Transcript

079 - The Art of Connection: A Conversation with Headshot Photographer Peter Hurley · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:05
Casey Fatchett: Hey everybody, welcome back to the nerdy
0:06
photographer podcast. I'm your host. Casey Fatchett. Today I'm
0:09
dusting off some old loot we had in the ship storage bay. Lots of
0:13
dust down here, and lots of interesting items too. Oh, look,
0:16
a flashlight. Need one of those? Let's just dust it off.
0:22
Kazm the Mighty: I awaken chasm the mighty Wait.
0:26
Casey Fatchett: Are you a genie?
0:27
Kazm the Mighty: A djinn Yes. Can we get to the wishes part? I
0:31
was watching my stories
0:33
Casey Fatchett: in a flashlight?
0:36
Kazm the Mighty: It's a pocket dimension and a lamp of sorts. I
0:40
don't see why this is such a big leak.
0:43
Casey Fatchett: Fair enough. Hold on. I need to do the
0:44
episode introduction on this episode of the nerdy
0:46
photographer podcast, I'm talking to the king of
0:49
headshots, the one and only Peter Hurley. Peter and I
0:51
discuss what it takes to remain successful in the photography
0:54
world, while social media has us chasing algorithms. And he
0:57
dishes out some great advice to all the photographers out there.
1:01
Kazm the Mighty: Come on, come on. I'm not going to be younger,
1:05
Casey Fatchett: aren't you As an elemental being, ageless and
1:08
eternal? I feel like this could be a long discussion, folks. So
1:11
stay tuned for my interview with Peter Hurley right after the
1:13
break.
1:19
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20 5p That's all uppercase, P, O, D, 20 5p stop posing and
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start prompting you. Hey.
2:04
Hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. On this
2:07
episode, I'm joined by you may have seen him before. He's been
2:09
featured on Good Morning America, good day New York, and
2:12
in the New York Times, he's the king of headshots. Welcome Peter
2:15
Hurley
2:17
Peter Hurley: Casey, thanks for having me. This is awesome. I'm
2:20
excited to be here.
2:21
Casey Fatchett: We're going to start out with a little quick
2:22
little iceberg. We're gonna roll the dice breaker, and it's a 16.
2:27
And that means the question for you is, what is the best
2:32
purchase or investment you have made in your photography
2:36
business?
2:38
Peter Hurley: Oh, that's good. One best purchaser investment
2:40
would have to be, I mean, definitely when I first got my
2:45
studio, I mean, that was, like, such a huge deal, I think, as an
2:50
as a as people, you know, when you become a lot of these people
2:53
become photographers that just don't, like ever think that they
2:57
could do it without a studio, and they're like, how am I going
2:59
to do this without a studio? While I was in my apartment for
3:01
four years, and then finally, I had an opportunity to get a
3:04
studio. And I was like, All right, this is the moment. And I
3:10
think a lot of photographers go through that, and that's a huge
3:12
moment for them. And I always stress that, you know,
3:15
especially with headshots, you know, I did it out of my apart
3:17
in a studio apartments plop with my butt plopped on a windowsill.
3:21
So for me to move into a studio was a huge, huge thing. And it
3:26
definitely, it definitely helped my career. And I think that that
3:29
was the moment that I really felt like, Hey, this is, this is
3:32
the, I mean, it was already the real deal, but I was like, now,
3:35
yeah, I feel like, people be when you have your own studio in
3:38
New York City, people like, like, I feel like that's a big
3:41
deal.
3:41
Casey Fatchett: It is. It's huge. I mean, I remember, like,
3:43
when I was like, renting studios, and it just felt like
3:48
it was such a process, and you need to tell people like, Oh,
3:50
I'm not at the same place, being able to have that place that's
3:53
yours, that you can send people to. And it feels like you've
3:57
reached another level of professionalism when you're
4:00
there and you're like, yeah, it's my space. Like, even if
4:03
you're sharing it with other people, like, it's, it's my
4:06
space, and you can always come here and find me. I bounced
4:10
around, like, over the years in New York, like, bounced around
4:14
to a couple of different locations, but, like, having a
4:16
place, like, five years at a time with, like, you know,
4:18
people know where they can come to you and where your studio is.
4:22
Yeah, that's great.
4:24
Peter Hurley: I just love it. I mean, the the only issue I had
4:27
is during the pandemic, trying to figure out how to pay for it.
4:31
Almost lost it, but I wasn't gonna lose it. And my my
4:34
landlord, luckily a photographer, and he understood,
4:37
so he helped me out and and I've got this amazing space. So I,
4:43
you know, even when I'm not shooting, I'm here working on
4:45
stuff, it's just my creative space. It's two blocks from my
4:48
apartment. So my first studio was, was down the down on 26th
4:54
street, the other way. Now I'm on 26 between sixth and seventh,
4:58
but so it's a little closer. Your home, but, yeah, it's,
5:01
it's, it's just great. And I would not, you know, I was, I
5:04
was not prepared to let it go during during the pandemic or
5:07
anything.
5:08
Casey Fatchett: So that, that leads me, actually, to my first
5:10
question, like, you've been very successful in the photography
5:16
industry for the, like, the entire time that you've been in.
5:21
It pretty much. How much of that success Do you credit to
5:26
focusing strictly on headshots?
5:30
Peter Hurley: I would say my notoriety, my global, my like
5:38
global, everything globally, and everything that happened outside
5:41
my studio was because I have headshots. I mean, when I first
5:47
started, I was a model, and I started shooting my friends. And
5:50
then it's funny, because Casey and I are cut from the same
5:53
cloth. We were both actors, and then picked up camera. It's
5:55
cool. So I was acting, and then I and then I just wanted the
5:59
models was like, hey, I need a headshot. Can you do it? And
6:01
they pointed the camera at me. So my goal was, I had been, I
6:07
got, I had been shot by Bruce Weber a bunch. He encouraged me
6:10
to pick up a camera, and I was really looking at his what he
6:13
shot, like, ad campaigns, fashion stuff, a lot of Vanity
6:16
Fair stuff. Being an actor, I really wanted to shoot actors on
6:20
set and do stuff for the I didn't think, I mean, I
6:24
obviously thought headshots, and wanted to make make some money
6:27
with headshots, but I was really not focused on I was focused on
6:34
an entire photographic career, and I got caught with what I
6:38
call hedge getting I Got caught in headshot land. I started
6:41
making money. You know, the hoberman's had hit 100,000 bucks
6:45
first, probably when we were starting. And I was like, you
6:49
know, I want to be $1,000 headshot photographer, and
6:51
that's, that's where. And then the money started coming in. I
6:54
was like, well, where? Well, how do I have time to concentrate on
6:57
this commercial work and getting an agent? So I was kind of
7:00
funneled into this, into this thing, which was fine, because I
7:06
was doing well, you know, but it wasn't until the F stoppers
7:11
walked in my door and said, Hey, we want to, we want to interview
7:16
you, and we want to do a feature on you on our site as the as as
7:21
a headshot photographer. And I was like, okay, and that turned
7:24
that was the real that was the turning point. Yeah, that's what
7:29
got me the international attention. And, you know, we did
7:33
a tutorial together, and then, and then it just spiraled into a
7:37
couple YouTube videos that got me on, you know, good day New
7:40
York and Good Morning America and stuff. And then, you know,
7:43
Scott Kelby helped me write a book, you know, and gave me my
7:47
first speaking gig at the Google Plus conference. And I, you
7:52
know, it's funny, I sucked at acting, and I was probably good
7:55
getting that I quit, but I was, I think, all the, all the
8:00
classes that I took and everything got me more
8:02
comfortable in front of people. So when I did the when I started
8:06
speaking and teaching and stuff like that, I was like, I use
8:10
those acting chops, and that was huge. So I think the headshots
8:16
became my platform. It became what I'm most known for. But it
8:19
was just by happenstance that I didn't go down another path and
8:24
go down the, you know, I don't think I would have been that
8:26
great of a fashion photographer with the with my eye. I don't
8:31
know that my eye would go to that my eyes drawn to the human
8:34
face now, so it's all, it's all facially, facial stuff for me.
8:39
But, um, who knows? I'm glad it worked out this way. I mean, if
8:42
there's
8:42
Casey Fatchett: something else that you like to do in your I
8:44
mean, when you're not taking pictures of, like, doing head
8:46
shots is what do you like to do? Like, what is there pictures of?
8:52
Peter Hurley: I barely point the camera to anything. The only
8:54
other thing that I really like that I got fortunate to do,
8:58
being a Canon explorer of light, like, opens up a lot of doors
9:02
for you. And I'm a big football fan, so I like the NFL. I've
9:05
always been a Giants fan, unfortunately, and except for a
9:09
Casey Fatchett: couple years, couple years, it can be worse.
9:11
You could be like me, and you could be a Lions fan, lions.
9:16
Jeez, yeah, it's been terrible. It's, you know, I grew up like,
9:21
I was like, in, you know, I'm gonna date myself, whatever. But
9:24
like, grew up with the Barry Sanders era lions, where it was
9:29
like, almost good, and you're like, Oh, yeah.
9:34
Peter Hurley: And then Megatron, which Megatron and Stafford
9:37
couldn't do it either.
9:38
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I know it's been a long and arduous
9:44
journey as the lions fan
9:46
Peter Hurley: very interesting anyway, so I there's an explorer
9:50
of light, Tara Lloyd, who's the photographer for the 40 Niners.
9:56
And Canon was doing something with him, and they were playing
9:59
the giant. So I nudged my way in there and said, Hey, I'm a
10:02
Giants fan. I don't shoot sports, but can I come and he
10:08
was like, come on, come on. So I'm on the side of the field the
10:12
first time, like a kid in the candy store, and they got
10:14
footage of me on national television. Some guy did a like,
10:18
like, blocked a pass, or almost caught an interception, and he
10:23
went running around, and you see me laying down on the sidelines,
10:28
laying down on the job. It's awesome. So and I just took
10:33
those pictures for fun, but then it ended up escalating into I
10:38
met a very good friend of mine, her husband, was the coach of
10:42
the Raiders, so I got at the time, so I got to shoot the
10:45
Raiders Giants game. Of course, I was like, I'm going to the
10:47
Raiders Giants game. So I shot that. And then I shot another
10:51
Raiders game. I think, I think I shot the Raiders again. Maybe I
10:54
shot them twice, maybe once, no, maybe it was just once. And then
10:58
I got to shoot for the Washington football team, so,
11:01
and they used my images in their headquarters. And, you know,
11:07
they said, Come on, come shoot whenever you look, whenever you
11:10
like, so. And that was and I there. I did that just as that's
11:14
like fun for me, like it's a challenge. I just, I have such
11:18
respect for the the sports photographers on the side. I was
11:21
actually trying to stay out of what people of what people,
11:23
like, all the photographers, be like, What are you doing here?
11:26
Like, I was like, oh, at least they know me. Okay, cool. So I
11:29
ran into some friends and and I tried to stay out of the way.
11:33
And I realized, I think it goes to show that in this, in this
11:37
thing that we do, the different genres, it's so specialized,
11:41
like, like, I had a ad running on Facebook for I do a workshop
11:46
called the headshot intense. I had an ad running and and in the
11:50
comments on Facebook, some guy wrote, learn headshots in two
11:53
days. Is this a freaking joke? And I was like, Man, I'm still
11:58
learning and I've been at it 22 years now, and I'm telling you,
12:03
it is so highly specialized, I'm so fine tuned in it now, and
12:07
there's so much to learn, and I'm still learning.
12:09
Casey Fatchett: So it's, I mean, it's one of those things like
12:12
for sports photography, especially football on the
12:15
field, yet keep your head on a swivel and know what's come
12:18
like, even, because you're also, I mean, I've watched people do
12:21
it like, you're usually, you have, like, a telephoto lens,
12:25
and you're like, wait, like your vision is like, so, like, far
12:29
ahead of you, like, you have to know that somebody's coming on
12:33
the field. It's just, it's one of those things where I'm like,
12:35
I don't know that I have, I try to keep as a wedding
12:38
photographer and other like, when I'm doing events, keep an
12:41
eye on things, everything that's going on around me, but that's
12:46
really hard to do when you're staring down like a 400
12:48
millimeter or, you know, lens,
12:51
Peter Hurley: it's crazy and you and being a being, being in the
12:55
studio and on a tripod and everything, and like, not and my
12:58
subject not standing there and barely moving. And now there's
13:01
like, targets and stuff going all over the playoff game the
13:05
Washington when the Washington football team played the
13:08
Buccaneers last year, and and Antonio Brent comes running at
13:11
me in the end zone, and I got the 200 400 on with the
13:15
converter with the extender on it, and then, and he comes in
13:18
and catch the ball and gets a touchdown. And I'm like, on a
13:20
monopod, and I'm like, all over the freaking place. I can't even
13:24
freaking point it at him. And I shot like, I shot like, a bunch
13:27
of shots, and I'm like, shit, he's too close freaking frame.
13:31
And I didn't realize that you could just undo the thing and
13:34
and flip the camera. I was like, I couldn't. I was like,
13:38
couldn't. Didn't flip it vertically. I missed the chest
13:41
pump with Tom Brady and I, but I got enough shots and I and I
13:46
pieced it, I composited all the ridiculous shots when I was out
13:49
of together, and I posted on Instagram, and he DM me. I sent
13:54
it to him, and he d me. I said, We got to get together. I want
13:57
you to share amazing I love this shot. And I was like, Oh my
14:00
gosh. Abs. DMing me, that's so funny. It was cool.
14:04
Casey Fatchett: I see a lot of those guys who carry like a
14:06
second camera, like, like a with a, like, especially down in the
14:09
end zone, carry like a second body with them, with like a 24
14:13
to 70, just in case, like, something's coming at them.
14:16
Peter Hurley: Well, I had that, but it was all happening so
14:18
fast. I had two bodies, and I had the 24 to 105, I think I
14:23
might add the 24 to 70 on it, or I had a, well, I know, I know. I
14:28
think I went with the, I think I had on my hip the 28 to 70 f2
14:36
that's what I cuz, yeah, I did because that's what I shot. I
14:39
shot a killer shot. So Washington football team was
14:42
coming down, and Taylor heineke was was running around in the
14:47
backfield, and he ran for the end zone and he dove. And he was
14:50
like, super parallel to the he was like, I got this shot of him
14:55
just unbelievably, diving into the end zone. And my shot is.
15:00
The one that they put in the Washington football team, they
15:02
printed and put in their in their headquarters, and it was
15:05
better than the one that went ran in the Washington Post. And
15:08
I was like, she bang, cool.
15:13
Casey Fatchett: Yeah. I mean, that's, that's one of the things
15:15
which, yeah, I would love to try at some point. But like, I don't
15:19
know. I don't know. It's just there's so much going on. Like,
15:22
you said, there's so much happening all at once. I
15:24
wouldn't be like, a Sports Illustrated photographer those
15:27
guys. And they're also like, they're jamming that stuff out,
15:30
like, the same day, like, and I've shot, like, it's the same
15:33
thing with like, Fashion Week, like, I went to shoot, like,
15:37
some fashion week stuff for some publications that I knew, and
15:41
they was, like, they didn't need it, like, immediately, but those
15:43
are, like, wire guys. They're sending that stuff out, like,
15:48
immediately afterwards. Like, there's, it's gone, like, like,
15:51
right afterwards. I don't know if, like, if my, my workflow is
15:56
that tight.
15:58
Peter Hurley: Wow, yeah,
16:00
Casey Fatchett: you're very good, like, even just in this
16:03
conversation, like, I've watched your videos and stuff, you're
16:05
really good at engaging people. And so much these days is about
16:13
like, social media engagement, as we're moving more towards
16:18
like, reels and Tiktok stuff like, Instagram is even like,
16:22
I've been giving bonuses to accounts that can hit like, a
16:25
certain level of views on reels, the tide really seems to feel
16:29
like it's turned against, like the algorithm is turned against
16:32
people who were like, posting like still images. And I
16:35
noticed, for example, like on your Instagram feed, the
16:38
majority of your feed is not your work. It's not like, still
16:42
photos or anything like that. It's you, like, discussing
16:44
things and talking about, like, what's going on. Like, how do
16:47
you think that still photographers keep up and stay
16:50
relevant and, like, this age of, like, where more and more video
16:53
and, like, showing behind the scenes stuff going on?
16:56
Peter Hurley: Yeah, I think everybody should be doing BTS
16:58
stuff for themselves. I mean, for me, it's a little bit
17:01
different because I'm, I don't know if I use the word, I don't
17:06
know if it's influencer or more of a personality, or, you know,
17:10
I don't expect people to be jumping around and crazy like
17:14
me, and some of the posts that I do are kind of silly, but most
17:18
of it's on brand for me, because I'm a little crazy, but it's not
17:21
geared so much toward my clientele, which I've always
17:25
thought like, how much, you know, I'm fortunate that I that
17:28
I built the brand, and I bust my butt to get people in my door
17:33
for headshots, and they and they walk in. So I don't really use,
17:38
you know, social as as I should. I don't believe for that my
17:42
social, since I have multiple source of income, I'm doing
17:45
different things. I'm you like, right now. I'm using the social
17:48
a lot for an NFT project that I'm doing, which I'm sure we're
17:51
going to talk about. And I'm also a coach. I'm doing
17:55
workshops. I'm coaching photographers. Most of my
17:58
following is photographers, and not my clientele. So keep myself
18:03
relevant out there in the coaching because I think it's
18:06
very important. I've got a really great group of
18:10
photographers that are working with me now through the headshot
18:13
crew and and so I call it going pro personal. So I kind of show
18:19
my personal life professionally, I'm not. I'm not one of those
18:23
people that care, like people are like, Well, you shouldn't
18:25
show this that or the other. Actually, I got on a plane
18:29
yesterday. I had a shoot down in Tampa, and I got on a plane, and
18:33
the plane took off, and then there was a fire or something,
18:36
and all that, the mass came out of the ceiling, and then we had
18:39
to turn around and emergency land and all this stuff. And
18:42
usually I would put that on my social but I didn't. I was like,
18:46
I don't know. And then, and then it was on the news. And I was
18:48
like, Damn, I should have, like, I didn't even think about, like,
18:53
I usually do that kind of side I'm always doing socially. I
18:56
actually took a video of the fire trucks, like, rushing over
18:59
to the plane and stuff, and then I just deleted it. But I don't
19:02
know why I'm telling you a story. I guess it was just kind
19:04
of shocking for me. But I think I've changed, like my my a
19:08
little bit of mentality on it. I think, I think part of it is
19:13
that one, it's very difficult to grow social following of people
19:17
that are engaged and that want to purchase what you're selling
19:23
or market to. So I have over 100,000 followers on on
19:28
Instagram, and it's not growing like and I'm posting and doing
19:32
stuff. I could probably post my fee. I guess I would have to be
19:34
a little bit more specific about what I'm going for with that. So
19:39
when I don't see the numbers growing, and then I see the
19:42
likes, or whatever, many people follow me going down, like I
19:46
have a bunch of followers that aren't engaged, and I don't know
19:49
how to get the Instagram algorithm to fire those people
19:53
up. You know, it gets a little bit dissuading and dissuading. I
19:56
just settled down on it for a little while, and then I
19:59
noticed. It's when I post again, it gets a little bit more
20:02
engagement. So sometimes I'm, I'm laying low, and sometimes
20:06
I'm going for it. But I think if you're a photographer out there
20:09
listening to this, like, Instagram's our platform, you
20:12
should be posting a hell of a lot more of your work than I do.
20:15
I just do what I do, because I'm, I'm basically doing stories
20:22
and stuff and videos and stuff, and using a lot of the video
20:25
content. And I think all the still photographers should be
20:27
paying attention to creating content with video, and that's
20:32
why I'm excited. Cannon just announced the EOS R 5c which is
20:37
super I'm gonna grab that puppy as soon as I was gonna get an r3
20:41
but I don't shoot sports enough to you know, it doesn't make
20:44
sense for me. So I was like, I'll get it, maybe for more
20:47
video capability and to shoot an NFL game here and there. But
20:50
then I was like, wait a minute, the R 5c, is out. This is gone.
20:54
I'm jumping on that.
20:55
Casey Fatchett: Yeah. Well, I mean, and supposedly I don't
20:58
know, you'd probably know better than I would. There's maybe an
21:00
r1 in the works somewhere. So we'll see. I'll see I
21:04
Peter Hurley: I have, no I have not heard a peep. And if I had,
21:08
I would tell you. I wouldn't tell you because I couldn't,
21:10
because I'm just saying that. But I haven't.
21:12
Casey Fatchett: I have, like, the rumors always flying like,
21:14
Oh, they're gonna come out with something to challenge the, you
21:17
know, whatever, Sony A one or whatever. But I'm a Canon guy
21:21
also, so it's, Oh, you are, what are you? I have not made the
21:25
jump to mirrorless yet. I know you're shooting with our five.
21:28
I've been like, there's this part of me that, like, I've got
21:32
a, you know, the 5d mark four. Really love it.
21:35
Peter Hurley: I got a 5d mark four.
21:38
Casey Fatchett: I'm, I'm pondering the switch to the r5
21:42
it's like, how old are you? I'm 46
21:48
Peter Hurley: Yeah, you're right. At that age, it's, I'm
21:50
telling you, the auto I detect. When I was 45 I had to put on
21:54
the glasses my eye, my eyesight started going as the dioster is
21:58
good. But I was like, the auto eye detect alone. I was done.
22:02
I'm like, Oh man, I don't even have to look in the in the
22:05
viewfinder if I don't want to anymore.
22:07
Casey Fatchett: It's unbelievable. The my eye doctor
22:09
has said that my eyes are growing wiser this way now you
22:13
need the reading glasses. So I think this touches on, like
22:18
something that you were just saying it used to feel like, to
22:22
me, like with the photos, the style of the photos was the
22:27
brand. And I remember when you like, because I was involved in,
22:32
like, the headshot community and acting community. I remember
22:37
when your like style, like the came out like you the the light,
22:42
your lighting style is noticeable immediately. At that
22:45
point, that was like, that's a Peter Hurley headshot, like you
22:48
just knew that that's that was, that was your style, and that
22:51
became like, kind of your brand. But now it feels like
22:57
photographers themselves are becoming the brand, even when
23:01
it's like, you know, not just for like, like yourself, for
23:05
influencers or, you know, whatever you want to like a
23:08
person, a photography personality, I definitely would
23:10
think this way to describe you, like you're not just about the
23:15
picture, but you're also, like, you said, a Canon explorer of
23:17
light, and you the headshot crew and All those things that are
23:20
outside of just taking pictures. You're an ambassador of
23:24
photography, but I feel like, you know, do you feel like that
23:29
is, like, where things have come like, where the photographers
23:32
you deal with a lot of, like you said, they train a lot of people
23:34
in headshots and things like that, but that now it's become
23:38
more about the your own personality is becoming the
23:42
brand, as opposed to this
23:44
Peter Hurley: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I always
23:48
thought that a good shooter is a good shooter, you know,
23:51
regardless of personality, if you can take a picture, I mean,
23:55
and it stands out from the crowd, then you got something.
23:59
And I don't think that that ever is going to change. I mean, I
24:02
just don't think somebody with less talent is going to be put
24:05
ahead somebody with less talent, with a big personality, yes,
24:08
though more doors may open, but somebody that's, that's, that's
24:12
talented, there's just no way to stop them if they're that good.
24:16
I mean, I just think, I think it happens. I one thing that I have
24:21
guests on my I do you know, zooms every, every day of the
24:26
week, and I have this one called crashing the crew on on
24:29
Thursdays, I bring in a speaker and somebody that somebody to
24:32
give a little talk. And Gregory Heisler came in. And I know this
24:36
quote is out there, and I don't think it's from him, but he said
24:39
it. And I always give credit where we're credits to I think
24:42
somebody said this first, but, and I've read it in books and
24:45
stuff like that, but he said, specifically for photographers
24:48
and this, I believe that we have to be comfortable being
24:51
uncomfortable. And it's so true. You know, I think the camera
24:55
gives a lot of people a lot of power, so introverts get get
24:59
their the. Their sense of power through that, through the
25:02
camera. The camera is so ridiculously power. I've never
25:05
had anybody look into it and not be, you know, kind of immersed
25:08
in it. It's very it's very daunting to be in front of a
25:12
camera in the first place, and then, and then most people are
25:15
affected by it and change. And our job as diverse is changing
25:18
back, just getting to be cool and chill, but and everybody
25:21
does that with their own personality. So I think if
25:25
you've gotten to the stage where you're building a business
25:28
around this and you have to get your personality your own way
25:33
done, like, it has to be you. Like, don't I don't think
25:36
anybody I tell my students, like, don't try and be me. I'm a
25:39
little nuts. Like, you know, not gonna, not gonna, and not gonna
25:43
pan out for you, unless you're a little nuts too. I'll give you
25:46
all the, all the, all the, all the stuff I do, this crazy, but,
25:49
um, but that's not it at all. What it is is that, is that
25:54
we're dealing with human beings as portrait photographers and
25:58
and I think the rapport between between our us and our subject,
26:02
is the thing. I mean, I people, you know, when I shot the
26:06
sports, stuff happens in front of me, and it's exciting, and
26:08
I'm trying to capture it best I can. And there's this talent
26:10
there. You don't need personality for that, right? And
26:14
if you're doing that, well, you know, the pictures are going to
26:17
speak to themselves. If you show it to an editor, you know,
26:20
they're gonna be like, this person's awesome, you know, and
26:23
then you're gonna get the job. But if you're, you know,
26:25
shooting people and opening up a portrait studio, and we have to
26:29
have different hats. Like, nobody told me that I had a I
26:32
had to be a businessman, you know, that's different hat that
26:37
you have to wear. That's a big deal. So, but, yeah,
26:40
personality, I think a lot of people out there might use that
26:44
as a crutch. Well, I'm, you know, I'm introverted. I'm not
26:47
very outgoing at all. I'm quiet, I'm shy. No, you have a camera
26:51
in front of you, you know? And if you enjoy shooting people,
26:54
you'll figure it out in your own way, and you have to, so you
26:58
have to be comfortable being uncomfortable, and you have to
27:00
go for it and do it. And that's it. Otherwise, put the frickin
27:03
thing down and go do something else.
27:05
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, and you have to be, like, comfortable, I
27:07
think, being yourself, who you are, like, what I mean, there's
27:11
a reason this podcast is called the nerdy photographer. It's
27:14
like, it's not because, you know, I'm super cool dude. It's,
27:19
you know, because
27:20
Peter Hurley: you're not as nerdy, like you're not as nerdy
27:24
as I thought. You might be.
27:26
Casey Fatchett: It's, you know, but it's just like, the the way
27:28
that I geek out about, like, awesome, yeah, if it's, it's the
27:36
way in which I think about photography is generally like,
27:40
oh, I can geek out about, like, the specs on a camera, or like,
27:43
oh, let's, like, I would like to build this thing that I need for
27:47
a shoot, as opposed to, like, go out and buy it, something like
27:49
that. There's that's why, like, embracing those things about
27:53
myself that are, like, that sort of love for what I'm doing, and
27:59
that I think comes across, especially my wedding work like
28:02
my I tend to feel a little bit introverted at times, like when
28:06
a camera is pointed at me, which is weird, because I was an
28:08
actor. But the thing is, when I was acting, there was a role to
28:11
play.
28:13
Peter Hurley: There you go. I know that that's
28:14
Casey Fatchett: very much to like something to hide behind,
28:17
in some ways, and
28:20
Peter Hurley: well, you're not static. I tell it, because
28:22
agents will say to me, all right, I need our managers.
28:25
They'll be like, I need this out of this person, this out of this
28:28
person. I need this shot, this shot, this shot, this shot. Then
28:30
the person comes in and they're flat as a board, yeah? And I'm
28:33
like, how do they they have no clue what their talent is
28:37
capable of doing in front of a still camera, right? But when
28:41
that person gets the script and gets the character and has to
28:44
move, and there's life put into it, it's a different ball game.
28:47
When you stop everybody because you can't shoot them like that,
28:50
it's never gonna work, right?
28:52
Casey Fatchett: You gotta have to, like, like, when, when I was
28:56
doing headshots, like, I would always, like, tell people, like,
28:59
as an actor, and, you know, like, think about, like, let's
29:03
put you in a role, like, the you want, like, unless I had, like,
29:06
some sort of, like you're saying, like, unless the
29:08
management or whatever was saying, like, we need this type
29:10
of look from them, but it for like, independent people who did
29:14
not have representation. I normally would, like, say, like,
29:17
Okay, what kind of roles are you going for? And sometimes it'd be
29:22
like, I think you might be going a little bit against type. If
29:24
you're going like, way against type, then we need to have a
29:26
discussion, like getting them into thinking about the role,
29:30
help them focus on it. But with weddings, what I've found is
29:35
that I've used my sort of self consciousness on camera, how I
29:43
feel, like I judge myself, and I think about the angles, and I
29:46
think about if somebody's taking I'm the worst wedding guest in
29:49
the world, because I am constantly analyzing what the
29:54
photographer is doing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And if they're taking a
29:58
picture of me, like, what lens are they? Using that kind of
30:02
like, you know, it automatically. It's like going
30:03
and seeing somebody do your job, as how I describe it. And I've
30:07
photographed numerous friends of mine's weddings because I told
30:11
them, like, if I go to your wedding and I'm not the
30:13
photographer, like, we'll have somebody else come and do the
30:15
reception. I'll dance and have a drink at the reception, or
30:18
whatever, let somebody there for that. But like, during the
30:20
ceremony, I am judging hard on anybody, and like, when the
30:24
cameras turned at me, I start feeling self conscious. But I
30:29
use that when I'm dealing with my clients and saying, like,
30:32
let's How do I make you feel comfortable? How do I get you to
30:36
a level where you don't think about me taking pictures?
30:38
Because that's for me, it's very very it's different than
30:41
headshots, where people are looking right at the camera. I
30:43
want to get, like, natural, authentic interactions and but
30:48
it's all about making people, like, feel okay having their
30:53
picture taken, so that they're not like, stiff and they're not,
30:56
you know what's going on here? Yeah, I think that that's like,
31:01
and as a photographer, you need to get comfortable with who you
31:04
are, like you said, like to make that happen for your client.
31:09
Yeah, that actually answers two of my other questions that I
31:11
had. You have been, I was guessing, like to stay at the
31:17
kind of, like, the the edge in trying to be on the trying to be
31:21
on the leading edge of, you know, being a photography
31:25
personality, and also maintaining a your headshot
31:31
business and the headshot crew, you've been able to adapt and
31:37
find other things to contribute to your photography business.
31:43
What are some topics that you think are going to shape the
31:47
photography world in the next year, or even maybe, like, over
31:50
the next five years?
31:53
Peter Hurley: Well, I mean, the biggest one is nfts. I mean, I
31:57
think everybody's seeing that. And, and, guys, I just said NFT.
32:02
And if you haven't heard that yet, you're probably living
32:05
under a rock, right? Yeah, yeah. And then, but you might not know
32:09
what it is, but you've heard it. And if you haven't heard it now,
32:12
you've heard it. So I would suggest everybody look into it.
32:16
I mean, I think that that is a game changer for photographers,
32:21
in a way that that we've never seen before. I mean, we all
32:24
have, like you said your shoot, you shot up a ton of film, like
32:28
I started out in film, and was shooting film like crazy, and I
32:32
have all these archives of stuff that I has been sitting there,
32:35
and I wouldn't even know what to do with it, what? But what I
32:38
could do is I could turn things in nfts and I, and I have
32:42
another source of income right there. I Since I shoot
32:45
individuals, and I'm mostly shooting headshots, I also do
32:49
portraiture and stuff like that, I don't know that I'm going to
32:51
be selling like, like. I mean, maybe if I have some celebrities
32:55
that I can say, hey, can we sell this image I took of you as an
32:58
NFT and get some permissions for that, then maybe I would do it
33:02
or or I would do a shoot with nfts in mind. I just did one
33:07
where I knew that they were going to use it as an NFT
33:10
Casey Fatchett: with that goal in mind. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And
33:13
if people don't know what it is like, really get out there and
33:16
educate yourself on what they are, because it is, like a topic
33:22
that there's a lot of scrutiny of things. There's a lot of like
33:26
different because there are some people who are not in the
33:31
business, who are not being on the level,
33:35
Peter Hurley: and like, there's a lot of scams out there. You
33:37
got to watch out for. That's for sure. For those of you that
33:39
don't know, NFT stands for non fungible token, and it is an
33:44
ownership thing through the blockchain, through crypto,
33:47
crypto. So in the blockchain, you will have a record of a
33:53
sale, and it follows that item. So let's say you take a picture
33:57
and you find a platform to put that picture up on, and one that
34:02
photographer, many photographers are using, which has been kind
34:06
of touted as the photographer platform for this, is called
34:09
Foundation. And you put up a shot on foundation, people can
34:12
go there and purchase that NFT. You give it a price, you do
34:17
what's called minting it. You put it up there, and you can and
34:20
people can go in and purchase that. Once somebody purchases
34:22
that, they own it, but if they sell it to somebody else, you
34:27
can attach a royalty to it, where you could still make 10%
34:30
off of that, that future sale, which, to me, is added, could
34:35
you imagine, like, like artists having this over the centuries,
34:39
like, like, whatever or whatever. Like now we have this
34:43
new thing. It's crazy, so that's why, you know, it opened my eyes
34:49
and I looked at now I haven't done, I haven't put any of my
34:52
own work up there on foundation or open sees the big platform
34:56
that most people are using now. It's the most popular one. And.
34:59
And I did put a collection of nfts up on open See, which has
35:06
been a blast, you know, and it's and it's all eye opening to me,
35:09
and I'm just trying to absorb as much information on it as
35:13
possible. And I think the timing right now is ridiculous. So if
35:18
you're listening to this and you don't know any of this. Go
35:20
research Google. Go on Twitter, see what people are saying.
35:23
That's big space for nfts. I like to carry I like to follow
35:28
Gary V and Gary Vaynerchuk has a lot of information on this stuff
35:32
that I'm absorbing. So I'm finding out more and more about
35:34
it from guys like him and another friend of mine, Tom bill
35:38
you, who I bought a couple of his nfts as well. So it's been a
35:43
really interesting space and been fun to work in.
35:45
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I mean, it's a huge it's a huge industry
35:50
right now. The one thing that I would add is like for people to
35:53
like, you said, Be careful and make sure you're buying from
35:56
someone reputable, if you're purchasing anything or just
36:00
getting involved, because I have seen, like, some people getting
36:04
it into, like, I sat in on a couple of Twitter spaces about
36:08
it, and like, some people seemed on the level, and some people
36:11
were like, seem more like a pyramid scheme where they're
36:13
like, Hey, give us our give us your money, and we'll just make
36:16
everybody else's, we'll make everybody in the group's nfts go
36:19
up In value by bidding on them. And I was like, as this sounds
36:23
like, you know, like this could go wrong. Just so, just be very
36:27
careful about who you involve yourself with. Find someone
36:30
reputable who's like, do your research and,
36:34
Peter Hurley: well first off, I mean, I think, I think you have
36:36
to, we had a bunch of people that we put, I put shabangers is
36:40
the name of my NFT projects. I yell shebang in a video that,
36:44
that jawline video, and then anyway, we were trying to come
36:47
up with a name. And there's these really cool little camera
36:49
guys, these guys, these figures with cameras on their heads. And
36:53
we drop, we dropped it in in October and and we put it on
36:59
open sea, and we own on open sea shebangers. So the if you search
37:04
your bangers, you're going to get ours. But there's also like
37:06
four or five others in there that are fake and open seas, not
37:11
monitoring the fake ones or closing them down. And I have
37:15
had more and more people who have tried to go buy my shebang
37:18
or get screwed by somebody who's got a fake account and they lost
37:22
their money in the blockchain. There's no turning back like you
37:25
can't want the money back. It's gone. It's it's gone. So you
37:29
have to be very careful of what you're buying, how you're buying
37:32
it. There's also, there's wallets out there that that
37:35
people will try and ask you for your passcode, for your wallet,
37:38
which is like a, like, a series of like, 12 work never give
37:42
anybody that, yeah, like, that kind of stuff. And then
37:45
Casey Fatchett: we're calling you and saying, like, Hey, by
37:47
the way, what's your ATM pin?
37:49
Peter Hurley: Exactly, there you go. That's exactly what it is.
37:52
So people are not educated, and they're doing stuff like that.
37:56
So and a lot of the NFT collections that are out there
38:00
are, you know, a lot of hype and stuff like that. What I'm doing
38:04
with mine is that I am corralling the photo industry,
38:09
and I've got a bunch of sponsors that are in with me right now,
38:13
which we're going to do a big press release about an announce,
38:16
announce them, but they're all the sponsors that I work with.
38:18
Every sponsor that I work with have said, Give me the thumbs up
38:22
to my shebangers program, which is amazing. And we're creating a
38:26
Metaverse right now that we're going to that I'm going to be
38:28
teaching it. So I'm actually going to be teaching in my own
38:31
Metaverse, and we're creating a token called a Shabbat that is
38:36
going to be the payment form inside the metaverse. So my
38:39
collection of shebangers, these little guys are going to
38:43
actually be entry points and be able to get you citizenship in
38:48
what we're calling shebangersville. So it's all
38:50
very crazy to me. And if you had told me a year ago, I would be
38:54
these things would be coming out of my mouth, I would think that
38:57
you would have to go away somewhere. But that's where
39:00
we're at right now, and I can't tell you the excitement of
39:04
brands and companies for this space. So if photographers are
39:08
not on the lookout for this, and my job is to educate
39:11
photographers getting into this, into this space, that's part of
39:15
what I want to do. I want people to open up their eyes to this,
39:19
because it's too much of an opportunity for us to have
39:23
another source of income other than like, for years, the only
39:27
source of income I had was putting somebody in front of my
39:29
camera and pressing the button. And now I have all these other
39:32
outlets, and I'm and I'm and I want photographers to be able
39:36
to, you know, make a living besides just pressing the button
39:40
and selling our work in this form is a huge bonus. So I think
39:46
people have to be aware of it, and you guys put it on your
39:48
radar right now, definitely.
39:51
Casey Fatchett: And I will include a link, both in the
39:53
Episode Notes and on the blog that takes you directly to
39:59
Peter's. Shabangers, so that you are not going to fake shabangers
40:05
In Casey, want to check that out.
40:11
Unknown: Hey, I'm Dustin and I'm Steve, and we host the wedding
40:15
photo hangover podcast, a light hearted look at the vast world
40:18
of wedding photography. That's what we're doing. I thought we
40:21
were making a podcast about drinking beers flying drones.
40:24
Did you even take yours out of the box, coping with your post
40:27
wedding hangover social media etiquette and wearing Moon
40:30
shoes. They're not Moon shoes, Steve, they're just seriously
40:33
check us out if you want to have a laugh and learn a thing or two
40:35
about shooting weddings and running a wedding photography
40:38
business, you can find the wedding photo hangover podcast
40:41
on iTunes or wherever you get podcasts.
40:50
Yeah, so I'm not sure how we handle the situation.
40:54
Casey Fatchett: Did you have a contract?
40:57
Unknown: What I had one I found for free online, but my lawyer
41:01
says it might not hold up
41:03
Casey Fatchett: next time you should head over to nerdy
41:04
photographer.com they've got a selection of contract templates
41:07
for weddings, events, portrait sessions, and even for hiring
41:11
second photographers and associate photographers, which
41:13
would certainly have helped you in your current situation.
41:16
Unknown: Really, I will check that out. Nerdy photographer.com
41:20
Casey Fatchett: Yep, nerdy photographer.com, they've got
41:23
all sorts of contracts and agreements that can help make
41:25
sure to protect you and your clients. So what are you gonna
41:29
do?
41:30
Unknown: Well, we just have to wait and see what happens, I
41:33
guess. So. No pants on. Oh, no, anything below the waist.
41:40
Totally Porky Pig in it impressive, not really. Now was
41:44
pretty cold out, yep.
41:53
Casey Fatchett: Hey, now for my favorite part of the show,
41:58
what's that? Say? Useless information.
42:02
This is always there. Peter, the average person spends 60 hours
42:09
or two and a half days every year looking for lost items.
42:17
Would you think that's accurate? Would you think, Yeah,
42:21
Peter Hurley: I bet you it's more than that for me.
42:25
Casey Fatchett: What do you think about like, I was like,
42:27
Yeah, I might be like, to make this an average it's probably
42:30
taking people like, I'm probably over that, especially just
42:35
looking for my keys. Oh yeah, I was seen for like, I put my keys
42:39
somewhere or in a jacket or on something, and I'm like, my wife
42:43
is like, why don't you just put them in that dish next to the
42:47
door? Because I don't think that that's a great place to put
42:50
them. Now, why would I do that? Because then I won't have them
42:52
in my pocket when I need to go somewhere. Yeah, I think that
42:55
that's a low ball estimate for me. And you're saying it's low
42:58
ball estimate for you.
42:59
Peter Hurley: Oh yeah, oh yeah. So my wife want every time I
43:04
lose something, she wants to record me, because I freak out.
43:08
I blame everybody for moving stuff. It's always somebody
43:12
else's fault. And she's like, she's like, damn it, why didn't
43:15
I have the camera? And then I find it, and then I calm down.
43:19
And it happens daily. So I met this guy, and he's the most
43:26
organized man in America. He calls him, he calls himself,
43:30
and, and he came into the studio. I was like, I gotta
43:33
shoot you. He goes, Let's barter. I'll come to your house.
43:35
You, you shoot me. And, and I was like, okay, so he comes to
43:39
my house and and he goes through and he like, he really upset my
43:46
wife, because my wife's completely unorganized. And he
43:48
was like, No, you got to do this, that this is ridiculous.
43:50
And he was very gung ho and everything. And I was like, Oh
43:53
my gosh. But the thing that he taught me that that was the most
43:57
important thing that's changed my life in terms of
44:00
organization, finding stuff is that everything should have a
44:02
home. And because if everything has a home, you have to put in
44:08
its home. And it could have a home in your living room and a
44:10
home in your bedroom, but you want to know you only go into
44:13
one of those
44:14
Casey Fatchett: two places, only one of those places. It doesn't
44:15
go any place other than that.
44:17
Peter Hurley: Yeah, so I started doing that, and it's
44:20
unbelievable how much time that saves. I bet you I might be
44:23
under the 60 hours now
44:26
Casey Fatchett: I get it escalates for me when I lose
44:30
something or I can't find it. And it's usually my wife will
44:32
walk like, well, she'll start asking, Where did you have it
44:36
last well,
44:37
Peter Hurley: if any, if anybody wants any help in that
44:39
department. His name is Andrew Mellon, M, E L, L, E N, and you
44:43
can see, maybe he's got some tips or follows Instagram or
44:46
something. He's Andrew underscore melon on on
44:48
Instagram, but, but it was helpful, you know, and it is
44:52
interesting, but I think we all suffer from that, so that's
44:54
that's just a random thing that we're in.
44:57
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, it's fine. Maybe it's the age we're at, I
44:59
don't. Know, yeah, Peter, thank you very much for being on the
45:03
show. I really appreciate it. You're welcome back anytime,
45:07
just quickly before we head out. Like, where can people find you?
45:12
And headshot crew, etc, etc, your project?
45:17
Peter Hurley: I mean, the best place, best, yeah, my coaching
45:20
platforms. Headshot crew. So if you do photograph portraits and
45:23
you don't have a headshot component in your work, you got
45:26
to check this out. It's, I just think it's essential to add
45:30
headshots to your plate these days to what you're doing. So
45:33
that's Headshot crew.com. All of this can be found on my
45:36
Instagram link, my link in my bio is usually the best place. I
45:39
mean, Peter hurley.com, is my photography, Instagram's Peter,
45:42
underscore Hurley, and that's really where everything stems
45:44
from. So you can find me there. I answer every DM that comes my
45:48
way. That's the best way to contact me. I hate frickin
45:52
emails. I don't even look at them. Clients are pissed at me.
45:55
So you know, definitely just Instagram Peter, underscore
45:59
Hurley is probably
45:59
Casey Fatchett: the best, awesome, and I will include all
46:02
of those links, like I said in the Episode Notes and on the
46:05
blog. Peter, thanks for stopping by
46:08
Peter Hurley: Awesome. Casey, thanks for having me.
46:15
Casey Fatchett: Welcome back everyone. Many. Thanks to Peter
46:18
Hurley for coming on the show. You can find links to Peter's
46:20
website, the headshot crew and his shebangers project in the
46:24
Episode Notes, as always, be sure to subscribe and leave a
46:28
review for the nerdy photographer podcast on Apple
46:30
podcasts, or you can leave them on pod chaser, or good pods,
46:34
where you can actually leave reviews for individual episodes
46:37
as well. How about that? Your reviews and recommendations
46:41
really go a long way towards helping the podcast. Since this
46:44
is an independent podcast without a team of publicists or
46:47
marketing people, the more you spread the word, more often, I
46:50
can get guests like Peter Hurley to join us. You can also follow
46:53
along on Instagram, Twitter and Tiktok at the nerdy photo that's
46:58
at the nerdy photo. I was looking at this flashlight. I
47:03
think it has your name on it, K, a, z, apostrophe, M, so is that
47:08
apostrophe like a language thing, or is it a contraction,
47:11
like, is chasm short for Kazam?
47:15
Kazm the Mighty: I'm not named after a Sinbad movie?
47:19
Casey Fatchett: No, that's a Shaquille O'Neal movie. And
47:22
people think Sid Ben did a genie movie called Shazam, but he
47:25
didn't.
47:26
Kazm the Mighty: You dare question my knowledge.
47:29
Casey Fatchett: Listen there are things I know and there are
47:31
things I don't know. If you want to talk about movies with me,
47:34
you better bring your A game
47:36
Kazm the Mighty: Kazm the mighty just wants to get this over with
47:38
so I can go back to my stories.
47:42
Casey Fatchett: Okay, okay. How about this? Can you make Sony
47:44
shooters stop mentioning tones all the time? This is beyond my
47:48
powers Kazm Maybe you should head back to your pocket
47:51
dimension. I'll just hold on to these wishes until something
47:55
more practical comes up. Until next time, everybody stay safe
47:59
and stay nerdy.
48:09
Unknown: Who's your heart been beating about? Get better. Get
48:15
better. Get better. Get better. Listen, you. You.