Latest / Pod Therapy / #450: Stagnant Therapy, Heartbreak in Open Relationships, Mourning a Pet

Transcript

#450: Stagnant Therapy, Heartbreak in Open Relationships, Mourning a Pet · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I've been going there for years. That's my standard.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Hot garbage, hot hi garbage.
• 0:04
  Speaker 3: Check it and see like hot fucking garbage. Also, it's
• 0:07
  Speaker 3: a chain, it's a national chain.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I like this place called McDonald's.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Really good pizzazza.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: They did, They did briefly from fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: This is pots Therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapist.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: You can submit your questions anonymously at pot therapy dot
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: net or email it's a pot therapy guys at gmail
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: dot com. I'm now broadcasting from me on the studio.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: That's Jim, that's Whitney. I'm Nick. It's time for some
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: pots there.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: It almost has a pergola.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear the story of how he
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: nearly fried off half of his skin, disappointed everybody he knows, and.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Ultimately didn't get a pergola.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: And if you'd also like to hear about Laura not
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: getting a pizza Patreon dot com, slash therapy, hear all
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: about it. And if you want to hear Jacobs pizza order.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: I think that Jim's Pizza place is owned by a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: friend of mine.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: You know you probably is because it was bought out.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: It was always owned by this one family and then
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I think they aged out and then I.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Knew, so listen to this.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: So this place for I've been going there for years
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: like clockwork, like you were saying, every week, you get
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a pizza every every Friday, We'll order pizza, right, always
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: the same order, always learning from this guy. I get
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: one bad night of service. They're just it's it's shitty.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: They don't bring my pizza. I'm calling asking about it.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: They're kind of it's like a new kid at the phone.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: She's kind of lying to me. I'm like, all right,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. So I'm kissing she
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: works Domino. Yeah, she's like, oh, your pizza's on the way,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: and like it wasn't like I'm waiting another hours. Like
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: that's not okay, right, So then I leave a bad
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: review and I'm like, hey, I'm out for a while.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Like I've been going to this place for like fifteen years.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: I'm done. Let me ask you, Jim, Yeah, prior to this,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: prior to this experience, Yeah, had you ever left a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: positive review?
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: I do not, as I almost don't know how interesting.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: So fast I leave a bad review for something, I
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: try to also leave a positive review for something else.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Okay, to keep the karm up there.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, if I'm on an Amazon or something
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: like that, yeah, I'll be like, let me let me
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: show people that I'm not Clearly, this is I've thought
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: about this negative review based on all of these positive
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: reviews that I've also left.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Clearly, i am a person to be trust.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I am on the other side of the spectrum and
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: give a fuck about my credibility.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: I'm here to be mad.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: We know, don't about So I get up there and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like, nah, pizza is bad. And then so, like
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of weeks later, I'm at the zoo with
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: my kids. I get a call on my cell phone.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: It's the owner. Yea, I probably told the story here
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: because it was so fucking cool. But he called me
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, man, I just I have a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: family in the area. I've lived here forever. I used
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to love this place. The owners were getting old. I
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: bought them out. Now I run this place. We're working
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: out some logistical kinks. I saw your review. I want
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to make it right, and I'm like, okay, great, But
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: like the reason he wanted to make it right.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Is it goes?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: We looked up your phone number in our system. Dude,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: you are the most loyal customer we have.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Say that. No, he was like, you are.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: He said, you're the most loyal customer that we have.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: He said that, he said, you've been He said, we
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: looked it up and we realized you have been ordering
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: from this place for whatever it is.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: It's like twelve years and he's like almost every.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Week, Like, yeah, I guess I've put some kids through
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: college over there in the family. I think I retired
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: the owner. He's like, yeah, we are going to make
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: this right. Get you like fifty dollars credit and was like,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: you know, we're going to take care of you for
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a while. And then you know you don't do whatever
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: you want to do with the review. But I just
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: want you back, please don't, baby, come Back's so let's
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: say you order how many pizzas do you order every
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: every week?
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, so our our go to or say you order
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: a pizza, but you don't order I get a large pizza,
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: all right.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: If I had it my way, it'd be a supreme
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: or deluxe with all the stuff on it.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: But before you tell us that, how many How many pizzas?
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Do you order one pizza?
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: You this just one big, one large pizza. And then
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: what is it? What is that right of wings?
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: We'll get some garlic palm wings, some garlic palm fries.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: That's usually it.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I think that's it's some some combination of those three.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: And then what does that run you over? At the familia?
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I probably check out about one hundred about a hundred bucks,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: about one hundred bucks a week. So it's two baskets
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: of fries, garlic palm wings, a couple sides of ram.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: You said for twelve years, large pizza, large pepperoni pizza,
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: and I think the pepperoni pizza. I mean maybe it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: maybe it's more like seventy dollars. Maybe I'm overthinking.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: So so you said about twelve years. Yeah, you're doing
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: the math. I've done the math. The math is what
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: is what's what's my pizza lifetime? What's your pizza bill?
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Why did this guy call you?
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Can we guess in the number of pergolas?
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: How many parkles?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: How manna guess? This is five and a half.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: Easily could have covered his backyard and percolos? Okay, I
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: mean it adds up quick, doesn't it. Yeah, I mean yeah,
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: you like one hundred a week. I did one hundred
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: bucks a week. Yeah, fifty two weeks a year and
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I did fifty. Okay, you gave me too off, you
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: know which. Usually we take a few off. But here's
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: the thing. I take a couple off.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: But then when you make up for it, when all
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the family comes over and I'm hosting baby, I have
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: thirty people in my thing.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: I felt pretty confident. I go to them for.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: All my big orders, like I'll do ten pizza nights,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm more than make up for the two weeks.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: I yeah, whatever, it's about sixty thousand dollars.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Oh god, I didn't realize I was part of the
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: sales pitch for buying the company.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Look at this guy. This is the kind of place
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: we are.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: You are mentioned in the family at Christmas dinner.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: If I miss too many weeks, they call to make
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: sure I'm okay.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Wellness check Yeah. The driver over just be like, hey, man,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: do you need anything? Are you okay? Like, just how
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: are they the family?
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: My five and a half percola guess was way sure.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Under shout of the.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: Multiple I like it.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: My kids have so many if you stack them right
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: next to each other, there would be a solid route.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: He can cover data center.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I have genuinely, uh looked at and kind of figured
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: out how to try to cover my entire backyard.
• 6:31
  Speaker 6: Just in general, just shad, if I had, if I
• 6:33
  Speaker 6: had a two story house.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think that. I think the main thing that's
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: going to keep me being able to do it.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I don't have to hide, honestly, dude, No, you can
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: just do a dome.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: Just do an inflatable dome. In your supported dome. We'll
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: go Viking Stadium on the side.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: There that famously did not work.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Well at the stadium, a big balloon in Vegas. It'll
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: be fine.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Although I got I got a big part of their
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: problem there was don't true.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: We don't have will become a broiler. Just essentially you have.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: To you have to install the revolving door, right, because
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: that's always how okay. So I don't know if you've
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: ever been to that stadium, but I don't think the
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: So we would go at least a couple of times
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a year up to the Metro Dome in Minneapolis, so
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: it's air supported right, So to get in you have
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to go through the revolving door because they have got
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: to keep it the pressure. Yeah, they have to keep
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: the pressure.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: It's done. Dumb design. Sounds like a flawed concept.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, No, it was the door open. It was a
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: blast because of.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Air coming out every time you open the door when
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you're watching a game in a spat machine.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: But when you but when you leave, they just open
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: up all the doors they vent. Okay, so as you're
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: walking out, you can just step up, up and jump
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: and it just it literally pushes you.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't know you've been blown by the Minnesota Vikings.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I mean that's every.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Every fan has been. I tell you.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Game covers what stands for skulls?
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So can.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: I don't know where we're going with those letters.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I don't even know.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: Okay, bingas there it is, scan scan.
• 8:33
  Speaker 5: L.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I forgot, Yeah, I've read anyway.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Patreon dot com, slash Therapy, Come support the show, enjoy
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: the pre show, hangout, get the show ad free a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: day earlier. If you'd like to watch, and I'll bet
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: you do, you dirty girl, you can watch us on YouTube.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: You'll get the unlisted link and it'll come out on Wednesdays.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You could just watch us right through YouTube whatever your
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: app is, You'll be set. So check us out patroon
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: dot com. Slash therapy got some great questions for today's
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: show when we're leading off the today with therapy stagnation.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Hey gang, last week left off, I sent in a
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: question about going to the old local seven to eleven
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and smoking a black and Mild every day on my
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: lunch break.
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: Great news.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I've been off nicotine for more months than I can count,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: you behn, the cravings still don't go away.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: But what are you gonna do about that?
• 9:20
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Any whose all?
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I've been having a rough time mentally, which I know
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: is shocking for someone writing into a therapy podcast. Lately,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: when I go to therapy, I haven't had a breakthrough.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: As you guys have mentioned in previous episodes, my therapist
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is really great and encouraging, but there are times when
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I just feel like he doesn't understand where I'm coming from.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Whether it's from a lack of emotional vocabulary on my
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: part or just a fundamental difference in thinking.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: It seems as though.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: There are just times that my therapist can't relate the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: experience that I'm living. How have you, as therapists dealt
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: with barriers that cause stagnation in clients and what does
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: help them break through historically? I know answering questions about
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: my mental health without an overall assessment, diagnosis, or actual
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: time with me will be difficult, But I guess do
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you have any general tips on progressing as a client
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: or working towards self improvement? Thanks for the help, Jim
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Jacob Whitney Tanjman. His name is my name too. It's
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of names.
• 10:25
  Speaker 7: I want you to go back to smoking black and mind.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: I think that was the missing ingredient right things were working,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: you know, I had a working formula.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I have done a search while job was reading the
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: email about how much health damage is done by five
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: black and mild cigars per week?
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Okay, this can be quantified.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: Is it more or less than my pizza orders.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Of help?
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: You have had a whole.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, multiply everything by my pizza.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: I mean basically, they're like, it's not great for you,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: but it's not the worst that you could do. Okay, Okay,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: so moderate, yeah, So I think we're pro smoking, pro smoking,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: very I think we're very much pro smoking.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: Just follow the data, you know. Yeah, I mean, who
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to lower birth size? Baby?
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: You know that's easier. A lot of ladies wouldn't complain
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Is all I'm saying.
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: I mean, and and as they get older, like, yeah,
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: it is so much easier for SJ to have clothes
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: just because it's easier to store them, right, But my
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: clothes are bigger, they take up more room in the house.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: You want a PREMI I was a baby.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Now look at me, it's a bowling ball. Nobody wants that,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: so smoke them. That's the solution here. So stagnant therapy
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: when the therapist is like losing the ability to get
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: where you're at, and now you're feeling like you're not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: having breakthroughs. I wonder what y'all's thoughts are on even
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: using that word.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, that's a good place to start,
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: like or what is the expectation of a breakthrough because
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of therapy that you see in out here,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of what you see in TV in the movies,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: there's always like a like a oh my god moment
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: or like it's not your fault. Will Yeah, exactly, it's
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: not your fault. That's a great classic breakthrough right, those
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: are very comic.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: The therapist was my mother the whole time.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, those are really uncommon recif the
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: very rare. But yeah, those don't happen very often. Like
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of therapy is I mean,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: is boring TV. Like it wouldn't make a good movie.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: It wouldn't make good TV because you don't have those
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: holy shit moments. It's a lot of hard work that
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: you're constantly putting in the hard work, and then you
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: slowly start to see some progress. I would say that's
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: most of therapy.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a solid point.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I mean the writer mentions to not really feeling like
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: the therapist understands where they're coming from, and so I
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: would be a little curious about that too. I do
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: feel like clients that I've met with for longer periods
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: of time, we will have had those. I guess breakthrough
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: moments or AHA moments is probably more accurate. Oh this
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: is why I think aberc or why I act certain
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: way or whatnot. But I gosh to have that stagnation
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: for a little while. What I find happens typically is
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: there's a discussion about it, whether they bring it up,
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: or I might bring it up, and for me it
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: might be like, oh, we're making some progress, how do
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: you feel about going every other week or you know,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: like decreasing therapy, and that will usually trigger a conversation
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: of Okay, yes I want to and things are going well,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: or well, I don't know, there are some other things
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I want to talk about. So then it dives into like, oh,
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: we haven't we haven't jumped into like childhood or sexual
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: experiences or you know, my parents or whatever, like something
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: something that they've been wanting to talk about, but maybe
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: they haven't been able to find those words and they're
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: really relying on the therapist to like pull that out
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: of this. And so I would say, I know we've
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: said this before. I would say, like mention it to
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: your therapist, you know, yeah, kind of share that with them, like, hey,
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I don't know that I feel like we've had as
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: many breakthrough moments or like moments that feel impactful. Maybe
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: that's a better way.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: To say it.
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: And maybe that means you saying, hey, maybe I'm like
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: done with therapy.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: But infect it sounds like you're saying I don't feel
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: like my therapist understands me. So I would dig into
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: that more and maybe share that, like what do you
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: feel like they're not understanding? And I was going to
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: say that.
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: I was going to say it because like, if you're
• 14:48
  Speaker 6: not having a breakthrough in therapy, it means one of
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: two things.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Either the therapy is not being go effective or there's
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: like everything is everything is good?
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Like that that's always the other option. It's like basically,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you know, very very basic. I would argue this, and
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: this kind of echoes I think a little bit of
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: what Nick was saying.
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: But I was just, yeah, so like if you're saying
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: if you're craving a breakthrough, then that that says to
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: me that like there is an issue, like you had
• 15:20
  Speaker 6: something going on. Yeah, so like maybe when you're talking
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: to your therapist like kind of go down that path
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: a little bit, like I'm being bothered by something, right,
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: like something something has got me, got me like craving
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: this this uh, you know, progress, right and in these sessions,
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: so like let's figure out what that something is.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, to kind of combine some of that too,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I think that the search for the constant breakthrough, there's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: something to that, there's value to that. But at the
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: same time, it's a bad metric of whether therapy is working,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: especially in addictions work. Sometimes it's like, look, I'm not
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the guy who's going to take you on top of
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: the mountain peak. I'm the harness stopping you from falling
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to your fucking death, you know, And so yeah, sorry,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: it's not glamorous. I stopped smoking, I'm still functioning. I
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: haven't been self sabotaging. My life is boring. Yeah, you're
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: fucking welcome.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Sometimes that's the greatest gift of therapy is your life
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: stopped being interesting and like now you're just like not
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: shooting goddamn holes in your boat all the time. A
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: good friend of mine, when he was going through a
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff and was going through I think it
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: was multiple twelve step programs simultaneously, thirty six steps at least. Yeah, yeah,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: so many steps those how many pergolas.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I think and a half?
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah that's a step.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And one day we were chatting and he was like,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: I had kind of like a really good feeling moment today,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: It's like, what's going on? He was like, I was
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: pissed off about my job.
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: That's it. I was just pissed off about.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: My job, like a normal person gets pissed off about
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: their job, And that means that I'm not, you know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: afraid that I'm gonna die. That means that my family
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: isn't you know, coming after me because they're afraid I'm
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: gonna die. Like like my worries were boring.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first world that is again. Yeah, like I'm down
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: to just being pissed at my boss. That's a great
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: story that backs up this concept. Yeah, a lot of times, Hey,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: therapy is just the thing holding you to the wall.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: And yeah, you're not climbing at the speed you once
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: were because we were pulling you out of the fire,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, it gets boring at some altitude.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: But then to your point, Whitney, I think there's a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: lot of wisdom to that that sometimes you've sort of
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: like the oils run dry and that well, right, we've
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: plumbed as far as we can in this part of
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: your life. I don't think there's anything interesting here. Let's
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: kind of back up and let's discover a new part
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: of your life. And sometimes you're right, they're waiting for
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: us to do that. But I really don't think that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: we often will instigate that. Sometimes I've seen myself say, hey,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: there's I want to get to know another side of you.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: We came here to talk about this, but during this
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: we've been talking about that. You've only like hinted it
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: that before. I feel like this is stable? Can we
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: start talking more about that? I've done that sometimes a
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: little bit, but this little bit of that. But more
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: often they come in with the presenting problem. Every human
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: has an infinity of things we could talk about, but
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: we don't get too nosy, like going through their trash
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: cans of every single part of their life, because it's uninvited, right,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: it's not informed consent. So like a lot of times,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: we will stay with you writer until you tell us.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've kind of gotten what I need
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: on this area. I don't currently have a struggle in
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: this area. I don't know that I'm on the precipice
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: of big change or another big step. But I really
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: like the journey of therapy. I really want to do
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: more internal focused work. I want to explore myself more.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Is that something that we can now add.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: To our work together?
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And this is where Nick brings up his very famous thing,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: everybody drink. What's the one thing. You want everybody to
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: go back and redraft when they have that Yeah, yeah,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: there goals baby drink.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so then you change the goals.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: But like, this is something a lot of people will say,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: I wish my therapist would notice that we're stagnant and
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: do something. And sometimes writer and I don't know if
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: you agree with this, whinny, but I've done this, I
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: will inherently let it be stagnant because it's like I
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: want you to realize you're probably done. But I don't
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: necessarily need to throw you out of therapy. But if
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: there's nothing for you to bring to this work anymore,
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I want you to walk out of session and go, huh,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I don't have much to say anymore. There's not much
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: going on. Jim asked some leading questions. It's kind of like, yep,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: everything's going great. Why am I seeing him?
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, that's okay.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: For you to come to that realization and realize it's
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: time for you to be done with this for a while.
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: So you expect the client to bring that up.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: I will bring it up.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: I mean obviously to your check ins, right, so like
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: you'll do your periodic, Like, let's take a status update,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: How are we doing? What do you want to work
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: on right now? Like, let's revise our treatment goals. So
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I'll do that. But like sometimes when I see that
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: signposting moment coming, I'll allow the quiet, you know, and
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I won't like because I mean, here's the thing. Therapy
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: with me is like going to Disneyland Withney. I mean,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: I'm putting on a fucking show. Okay, Like there's just
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: lights and sound and smoke as.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: We dial it down.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: That's right, a lot of cosplay. They get a real
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: performance out of it.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: When you say it's like Disney, I imagine it's like
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: it's a very colorful, colorful facade, and behind it it's
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: very sad. Yeah.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a small world repeat, that's all it is.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And it's just a bunch of me and like ethnically
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: questionable poses and costumes.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. I wouldn't say questionable, I would say racist.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean allowing that tension to build is
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: sometimes a good thing. So I think we're all on
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the same page with like when the writers saying, hey,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: from the therapist's perspective, what what how would you kind
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: of maneuver this? But then the second half of the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: questions asking us what advice do you give? And again
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: he kind of says, look, I'm not tipping my cards here.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: You guys don't know what I'm working on. But when
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: a person feels that they are stagnant in therapy, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: if you were just giving outsider advice to say, here's
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: how to get some fuel back in the tank, here's
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: how to spark something you get something interesting going and
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: not rely on.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Your therapist to do that for you.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: But what advice do y'all have Whenever somebody says, hey,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: how do I kind of reignite this journey again and
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: get interesting, get curious, do.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Some more work.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: I think if you have an idea writer, like you
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: didn't open up in the in the question, that's fine,
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: But if you have an idea of what these things
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: are at least a category, I would I would probably personally,
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: I say journal loosely, but like, just make some notes,
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: some personal notes, whether that's in your phone or on
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: an actual notepad, whatever, make some notes for yourself and
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: sit with those. And if those are things important too,
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I would bring those two sessions and say, you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: these are things that came to mind when I sat
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: with this this past week, and yeah, this is what
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: I think is important to talk about because I believe
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: if you have good rapport with your therapists, you say
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: they're a good therapist, they will probably start to dig
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: into that. The client brings that to me like, yeah,
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I've really been thinking about you know, this job I
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: lost years ago and it's really stuck with me in
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: this boss I had and all that. I would be like, Oh,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: tell me more about that way, what did your boss do?
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: How did they let you go? Like what was it
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: like working there? Like then I'm going to dive into
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: the curiosity and see what I can pull from that.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: But it gives me guidance on where to go. And
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: so if you are feeling like there's something important to
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: talk about, find a way to bring that up to
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: your therapist. That's why I mentioned journaling because sometimes when
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: we get into session, I hear this a lot from clients.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: They'll be like, well, I thought of these things this
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: past week, but now I can't remember them, or yeah,
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: write you know important thing to like, write it down
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: or this may be controversial to you, Jim, but I
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: tell clients you can you can text me what you
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: want to talk about in our next session. I will
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: probably not respond. I just let them know. If it's
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: something that's like, hey, I want to talk about this,
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to be like okay, I'm just so
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm not going to respond to those. If
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: you text me and like having a MENTB, then I'll
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: respond to that.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I just passive notes for that past message
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: in a bottle.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: I really love because then I am able to check
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: that email.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: If you have comminations, that's not controversial. I have all
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: my clients live stream on Twitch. That way, any time
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I can just jump in and be like, how are
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: they sleeping? You know, like are they tossing and turning?
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: What's going on?
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: You have a constantly live stream. Yeah, I'm a professional
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: every detail. I take my job very seriously.
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: That's what makes the best of us.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And then I'll just give.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: These away guys. Yeah, they kind of do. You got
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to go to the gift shop and buy it. Actually,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: I got to pay money to go eat the damn thing.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: So when something in my mind, Dad, I didn't email
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: them back.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I think ice cream Social is up for for that
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: this year, and uh they bid, they bid email like
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: for the last few weeks.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Oh cool about what I guess to buy all of
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: the voter pages, Like.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's too many steps? So what uh, what do
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you think whenever somebody's stagnant? What advice do you give
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: to somebody who's saying I just feel like I've I've
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: kind of reached this pointment, Yeah, you write your own
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: treatment plan. How do you put some more gas in
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: the tank?
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. It kind of depends, Like, yes,
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I would take a look at the treatment plan, but
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: i'd also redefine, like, let's let's talk about what is
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: what does it look to successfully complete treatment?
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Sure?
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: What does that look like? Because yeah, in a way,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: because you're kind of like, you know, you're like running
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: a five k, but they never put out a finish line.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: Is it around the corner? Yeah, I don't know a
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: feel for you're almost done, but you don't really know.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: It's got to be coming up at some point. But
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: if you don't have a visual picture of what the
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: finish line looks like, how will you know that you've
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: crossed it? So that's that's usually the discussion I will have.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And also I'm you know, highlighting that it's not maybe
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: a finish line isn't right the right word for it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: But when is a good time to know that? Like,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm stable. I've achieved stability because you're
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: never going to be done.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: You know, you'll never hit the epiphany yet, right, you'll
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: become the enlightened man, like you're just going to be
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: doing a little bit better.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I like that to Two exercises that i'll use if
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I have a patient who's like, look, you know, I
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: enjoy this. It's it's like emotional yoga for me. I
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: discover things I want to work on as we go,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: even if we've solved my presenting problem. I like this
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and it's just a good, healthy routine for me. I
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: want to keep going, so okay, great, I have that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: mandate that it's okay to just be creative.
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: And find new things to explore.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Two exercises that I find I always hit oil on
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: is the trauma timeline, so you know, giving somebody the
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: timeline the positive and negative experiences.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: In this case, is hitting oil a positive or a negative?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: It's a good thing. Okay, this is a landman striking
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: oil Like no, yeah, good, thank you for clarifying.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: I only use that when a client says, I can't
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: want to dive into.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it can be a little leading, but yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: For the person writing, and this could be a good
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: place for you to start.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: It's a great self inspection tool. And you know, just
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: kind of again catalogs, those those like important life experiences,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: positives and negatives. Another one that I'll always hit on
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: is genograms. So if I can get somebody to do
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: a genogram, which is basically an enhanced family tree that
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: tells us more than just who begat who, but also relationships, histories,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: mental illness, you know, the drama, the way you were treated,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the way your dynamic was of each person. If I
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: can get somebody to start designing that and then talking
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: me through it, it is always a wealth of information.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And some of that actually comes from systems theory, you know,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: which we don't talk about, but like my master's had
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: a lot to do with that as a marriage and
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: family therapy background, and I don't draw from it very often,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: but anytime I can get somebody to like go back
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: to their constellation of humanity and their family of origin,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of things just start to connect and they
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: notice their patterns and their themes, their belief systems, like
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: their emotions, the way they respond to the world around them.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: It's really really cool to like take somebody through that.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So that's another area that I think you could explore
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: for yourself writer, And I think if you were, you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: with your therapist consent, talk to them, ask them what
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: they think. If they say, hey, don't stop listening to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: that goddamn podcast, these are bad ideas that, well, yeah,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: then fuck them, okay, then then yeah, then the show, Yeah,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: keep the okay, yeah, run the Patreon, stop listening, but
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: you know, support the show, you know, support mental health.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: But those are some ideas I think to throw a
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: little bit more in the tank and keep the thing turning.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: So begod stuff all.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Right, we are and take a quick break, and when
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: we come back, we're talking about how to support my
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: kinky wife. You're listening to Pop there at Straps after.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, mil Lea,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Richard Mason, Sonny Boy, thunder Druger Falcon Scoop Scoop. Yeah,
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I said it right, yeah, Nail motherfucker, Sandra mcwopfle Elena Gabriella,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: dom Adam Warren, not Kiara Knightley and if you like
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: to sponsor the show, become a The're pretty sorry you're
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: trying dot com slash therapy. This is trivia I put
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: together because I thought Whitney would be good at this.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I hope it's specifically which order things go on the
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: here's the thing, only he would know it.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Here's the thing. I put this together before I remember
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: how much of a bitch.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: So this is pro Whitney trivia.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I can't wait to be sitting underneath my purgola. Well yeah,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: well while you and Peter stand on.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: The outside pera bitch Whitney.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: Also episode title.
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: I'm here, I'm here.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you all a list of celebrities true,
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: and you are going to have to identify married and
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: kill who they all dated. Chokes on you?
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: So this is the sex they have in common?
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: List?
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is gonna be going to okay, Oh boy,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it's all David Space. I was gonna say it's gonna
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: just one guy, All David Spaces.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: Bill Clinton.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: It's through the list, all right, what a current reference?
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I bet you did, voters. It's an intern work in college.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: No big deal.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Here we go buzz in Britney Spears, Cameron Diaz buzz just.
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, whoa, she's going to fuck us up.
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: We're not even going to get I don't know for
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Jessica Biel, but I was pretty sure Cameron had to.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go. Why not a writer Kate Moss, but.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Jesus, all right, okay, so those.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Are the easier we're going to get into the medium.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Those are the easy ones.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that either of those people had dated
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Johnny Depp at any point.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Effort, Oh my god, Okay, here we go. Jennifer Aniston,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Jessica Simpson.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Buzzy, Bill Cosby correct, that's right, Yes, they don't remember.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: They don't know it.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: To start the list over, Jennifer Aniston and.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Aniston, Jessica Simpson, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Minka Kelly
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the fuck.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I don't the Prime Minister of Canada.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Aniston, Jessica Simpson, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, Minka Kelly buzz.
• 30:38
  Speaker 7: Yes, Jake Chillenhall, but no, let the record show that
• 30:44
  Speaker 7: Jim raised his hand when he buzzed in as well
• 30:47
  Speaker 7: with the video people got you.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Gets very kind and the other guesses.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just going I'm trying to go with the short
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: list of people I know that Taylor Swift has dated,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: because it's not going to be Kelsey obviously.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: That's the only one I know. I know there are
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: songs about it. I know, but I don't know those songs.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: There's a guy in my head through Jennifer Aniston data.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: I can't think of his name.
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: That one.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Brad Pitt.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: No, No, Taylor Swift never dated Brad Pitt.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: Because they're so far apart in age.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: I was thinking of that too.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: I was like, that is there is an age Range.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: And Katie Perry, but I don't think Orlando and but
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: you said close with Jake, Jill and Hall.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know why I did why I guess
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be encouraging.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: Thanks, buddy.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: John Mayer.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Is a Wonderland.
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: Okay, okay, okay.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, we'll do uh, let's do one more. I like it.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Kelly Preston, Tela Balsam, Lisa Snowden, Selene Ballytron, Sarah Larson.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Oh Buzz Yes. Leonardo DiCaprio.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: No, but he was in a movie, a movie with
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: the guy that did.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: This Sam Jackson, No, okay.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: I don't honestly don't know what.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: Matthew McConaughey, no Ocean's eleven.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: No George point for Jacob, Yes so much.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I mean it's anybody's game. It's very competitive. Wow, that's
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: a good game.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: I like this a lot.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: How to support my kinky wife. Hello, gang, I'm in
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: a pickle. I'm a licensed professional. That's what gets my
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: wife me being inside of pickles.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: She makes me pickle, my dick.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I'm a licensed professional counselor just starting off, and I'm
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: freshly licensed and loved many aspects of my job, but
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: doing agency work, where my pay is determined by the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: commitment that my clients have to treatment, has been weighing
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: on me. The details of that can be saved for
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: another letter, but for now, just know that it causes
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: me a great deal of stress. The actual issue comes
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: from my wife. We've been married for about fourish years,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and she even introduced me to Jesus after being a
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: die hard skeptic who believed God was a robot in space.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Throughout the course of our relationship, I've noticed that she
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: is quite kinky hard right turn in this letter, So
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: she's into Jesus and kinky. Yeah, it's more common than
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: you think. I mean, their whole thing is based off
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: of a guy hanging on a tree.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like, and he's naked, pretty kinky and was really
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: hung And there it is.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: The repressed sexual issues of Christianity often manifest as kid
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: They literally moved to a different continent because they were
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: so fucked up in the head. There it is, oh
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: is she lives up to the sheltered, kinky female stereotype
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: who wants to let out all of her repressed sexual energy.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: As hot as that sounds, I don't care for it
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and am admittedly kind of vanilla with her. You see,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: we had an open marriage for a time, and I
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: had no problem in the kink department with the woman
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I was seeing, but I could never bring the same
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: energy to her. The who idea might be whole of
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: going the whole idea of going the open relationship route
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: was because she is very much medically compromised and none
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: of her specialists know what to do. To top it off,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: she has BPD two, so that's bipolar disorder BPD two,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: so it must be bipolay and is the sequel and
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: is being looked after by a damn good psychiatrist and
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: therapist that deserve all the props for keeping her alive
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: up to this point. Long story short, These issues often
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: cause her to want to isolate, sleep a lot, and
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: generally not want to hang so I get lonely. When
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: she was feeling okay, she would spend all of her
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: time on I amvu, which is a three D virtual
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: social network and chat platform where users interac using customizable
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: avatars rather than text only messaging. It functions less like
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: a traditional video game with goals and more like a
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: digital hangout space or a three D instant messenger where
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: you can join rooms, dress up your avatar, and socialize
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: with others globally.
• 35:23
  Speaker 7: My life is so good, I literally needed a second life.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Hmmm.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: That's how she put a check double up the life,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and she uses this to explore sexual fantasies. She has
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: done this for years, worked at and managed erotic strip
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: clubs in this space, and even found love. I've always
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: been weirded out by this because when Manik she is
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: having a great time, as I always see a smile
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: on her face when she is entertaining, but it often
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: makes me not feel good enough.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: That I can.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Deal with, though. What I struggle with is that when
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: she enters relationships with these people over the Internet and
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: becomes emotionally invested, only to be betrayed in the end,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I have to pick up the pieces only for her
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: to do it again. For her, this is the safest
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: outlet she has for socialization, which is crazy because it
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: gravitates toward all these people who claim to have schizophrenia
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and personality disorders and the like, who just make her
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: feel sympathy, only to discard her. She won't bring this
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: up to her therapist because she's ashamed. But it's not
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: my job to therapize her. So I ask you all,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: or maybe just doctor Jacob, to do it for me.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: So here's my question. What should I be doing as
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: her husband to support her?
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: That would not be an ethical issue. PS.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: I hope you can consider this my application as the
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: future token black nerd co host in the future. Ye
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I've had nightmares of running D and D games for
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: you all. That's like half a joke unless you're really
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: thinking about it. From the hermit.
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: Just joking, just kidding, are you?
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I've won the.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: D and D game on ice Cream Social We did it.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Live on on Twitch. It was us and uh and piff.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Oh cool.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: So we did Dungeons and Dragons with a real dragon, yes, okay,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: and uh it was one like a pro dungeon guy
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: like put it, put a little thing together for us
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: when we did it live on there.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: And I feel like I've checked that box.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, you've done it. Now I've done it, no more questions.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: I think I think I've done it. And that's probably
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: affected it.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know what you've won, You've won the game.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Never do it again. It was just redundant that clearly,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: clearly nobody wins Dungeons and Dragons.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: That's true. There are no winners. Oh the people who
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: don't play, I think, are the winners. They've they've always
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: come out ahead. So this is a really interesting question
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: with a lot of layers to it. So to recap it,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: because I kind of did fumble through the writing a
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: The writer is a colleague.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: The writer says, I'm a counselor. I'm kind of new
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to the game. I'm pretty stressed at the game. Been
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: married for like four years. My wife has this history
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: of sexual repression. She is now living this out in
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: this authentic way. She's very vibrant, she's very kinky. We've
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: tried out open relationships. But she also has a bored
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: or bipolar too, which is we'll talk more about that
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: when you have mania and also depression. And he's saying,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: this makes this all very complex. She finds these relationships
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: with people that are also very broken. She's attracted to that.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Then she gets her heart broken in all this. I
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: don't know how to satisfy her needs. I'm pretty vanilla,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: so this isn't working for me. I care about her.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: She's not bringing it up to her therapist. What do
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: I do?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: All right, Well, that's all the time we have.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, clearly it's dungeons and dragon sex, right, just
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: bringing bridge mixture two worlds.
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: Man, you're excited he wants to.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Be as which I think we've explored the Whitney thing
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: as far as.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: This was the right day to ask. Real good what's
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: your That's right?
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: She lasted about three years. It's not too bad job.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: This is a tough one because there are so here's
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: my thought. I'll ask the two mental health providers thank
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: you in private practice? Yeah, and Jim, how do you
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: let's just say if the bipolar disorder is well managed,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: is this still an issue? How much of this can
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: you pen on like bipolar?
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: Well, I'd be curious what you think about that.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I think her sexual interests or her interests like that's
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: probably authentic, and that appetite usually goes ape shit when
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: somebody's in Maine.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so then I'm wondering like.
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: Like seeking out those relationships and then your partner has
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: to be the one to kind of.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Dscal or risky sex.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: And so, like a lot of people in the kink
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and open community, if they also have a co occurring
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: mental health thing, especially with border or I'm sorry, I
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: keep wanting to say borderline as it said BPD, but
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: bipolar there there does need to be some safety planning
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: with that because if it's unmanaged, unmedicated, and she's getting
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: into manic episodes, that the the entire hallmark of that
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: condition is incredible spontaneity, impulsivity, poor judgment, insatiable appetites for alcohol,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: drug shopping, gambling, sex, That could all be part of it.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you want to specify between like bipolar
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: one and two.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, she's bipolar two, So bipolar one, you're hospitalized.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, straight up mania.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: That's different. Bipolar two is hypomania. But still, I mean,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: you're in this like very heightened impulsive state.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: You're going to be more impulsive.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: So to answer that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: From my side of the seat here, I would say,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I'll bet it contributes two, but is not the cause
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: of all of her stuff.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if, like, if that's better managed, is
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: the writer in a better position to just like does
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: that fit more with like his level of I don't
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: want to say coping, but his level of what he
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: can handle in this situation. And maybe if the bipolar
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: isn't quite stable, then now it's beyond his capability of
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: really being able to jump in and and.
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's probably part of it.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: But that's tough because the writer said she has a
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: really good psychiatrist and therapist.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: That's true, Yeah, who saved your life. So we know
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: that she's well supported.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which, so there's no indication that we could say
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: that it is not stable.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'd probably assume that it is.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: And yet even when it's stabilized, people still have flare ups. Sure, yeah,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: so the medicine can only go so far.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna kind of go a different route. I mean
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: you mentioned writer, like how do I, how should or
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: what should I be doing as her husband to support her?
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: That would not be an ethical issue, and that's really
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: watching her. They're asking, like watching her go through those
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: downswings after like kind of I'm going to call it
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: a breakup.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's her heart broken. Yeah, people ghost her, ditch her.
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's gonna say. I mean, we talk about this
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: angle kind of a lot on But I would go
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: the route of you can say I'm here for you
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: if you need something, or maybe like get her a
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: nice cart or some flowers, something to say I'm acknowledging
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: that you're going through something tough, but like you are
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: not responsible for her emotions selves a little callous, but
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: I kind of take that route. If she is entering
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: into these relationships, it's her responsibility more so to manage
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: how she's feeling. Talked to her therapist. You can sit
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: there with her, you can say I'm here for you,
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: give her hugs, whatever you're comfortable with. I guess, writer,
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: but don't feel like you're responsible for keeping her from
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: feeling that disappointment like that is on her.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: That's a good point.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Do that, and I think you're knocking on the door
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: of something really important, like as the spouse. If you
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: notice my partner has this cyclical relationship pattern, even if
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with sex, Like even if
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: it's just I notice her friendships. She keeps getting into
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: these friendships with a certain type of person. She gets
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: it overly invested. She tries to be their hero, she
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: tries to earn love. That person distances themselves. She always
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: feels let down. Whatever the pattern is that you see
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: in your spouse, I do think you can play a role,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: regardless if you happen to be a professional counselor, of
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: pulling your spouse aside and saying, hey, I'm a stakeholder
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: in your life, right like we're in the same.
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: Both affecting me.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: It affects me when you.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Go through a weather pattern that affects our relationship, it
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: affects our household. And I don't like watching you suffer.
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: And you're so close to it that maybe you don't
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: notice you do this, but I notice that you do this,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and like I love you, I just want to bring
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: that to your attention. There's a role for that, and
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: and but there's there's a line though, right, because like,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: and this is where the hermit is saying, like, guys,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: you know, as counselors yourselves, like how far do you
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: bring insight to your spouse before you kind of shut
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: the fuck up, because like, it's not my job to
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: take it any further.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: No, it's our go to.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Do you write notes and just give them to the
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: therapist and be like, hey, ask them about that.
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: I know, I know I can call in and what
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: does you say, upload? Let me upload some info words?
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's a balance though, I mean like giving
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: our feedback to our any family member in our life.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where the Hermit's kind of asking
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: about the ethical like itchiness is, like, at what point
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: do we utilize our observation skills, our understanding of relationship
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: trauma pattern matching mental health stuff. At what point do
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: we pull somebody, anybody aside, especially your spouse and say, hey,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: I think that Like and he says some of this
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: in the letter, you have repressed, you know, issues shame
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: and guilt. You're trying to conflate you know, casual sex
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: with connection, and I don't think it's working for you
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: in this context, Like the way that you're pursuing that
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: you're not getting either of what you're looking for, You're
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: not satisfied, your heart keeps getting broken. There's attention to that, like,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: and I think this is something every counselor has to
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: live with, is that you're surrounded by people in your life.
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: You don't know what's best for them, but we can
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: notice things, we can kind of read the matrix. And
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's an ethical issue that every professional eventually
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: bumps into, is like, ugh, how much insight should I
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: have the right to bring up? Also, I don't want
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to pretend like I'm right about every goddamn thing, like
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: what do I know?
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: But do I offer that as a gift?
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: But you bring up a good point in that the
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: writer the hermit can say, you know, hey, this is
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: how your behaviors are affecting me. Yeah, and I stress
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: out when you're stressed out and sad like that does
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: affect me emotionally, and so I just need you to
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: know that and then also maybe take a step back
• 45:20
  Speaker 4: to It's kind of both. But I think it's so
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: hard for us as therapists or clinicians not to just
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: start surprising kind of.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: It's hard not to so I wonder what our thoughts
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: are on I think the first part of the letter,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: which is another theme in letter, which is, hey, we're
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: also sexually mismatched, and like we're working on that from
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: different areas, Like, Okay, they seem to have I think
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: he said past tense, we used to have an open relationship,
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: or he's saying we still do, but past tense. I
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: used to be doing that too, and now I don't anymore.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: That there seems to be Yeah, that was a little bit.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: Like they still didn't. Are you still seeing?
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: It?
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Was confusing?
• 45:56
  Speaker 5: Yah?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so he seems to be saying, like, look,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I don't share the same interest sexually. I'm kind of vanilla.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not enjoying this with her, right Yeah. But then
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: that observation of like I used to So I have
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: some thoughts on that. But I was wondering what y'all
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: think about what the hermit is noticing where he's going
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: to going. Guys, I have it in me, but not
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: with my wife, who's you know, a kink show, and
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: yet I can't bring it out of me. What the
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: fuck's going on? I have a theory on that.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: It kind of it's kind of shocks me a little bit.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: But then at the same time it doesn't okay, where
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: it's like I'm trying to find a good analogy to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: get a way of looking at me, like uh, okay, good, Yeah,
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: here we go. Let's talk about golf.
• 46:38
  Speaker 5: So it's almost like, let's imagineersion I.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: Just watch what happens though, Let's imagine Laura is an
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: amazing golfer, absolutely amazing, Jacob. I love golf, okay.
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: But only with our six foot tall black Yeah.
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: But like I want to go golf with people I
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: can compete with, Okay, And if I go golf with
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: Laura and she's like on the LPGA Tour and I
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: can't compete with her, then it's not going to be fun.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: I see ye, So golf is a kink.
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, just I'm just gonna one of the.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: More bring you back how I'm tying this in?
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I think what you're saying is I can
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: we can enjoy the same things but find that we
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: don't enjoy them with the same people.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or like you know, maybe it's like it becomes
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: competitive where it's like I feel like I can't compete
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: with the things that she's into. Or maybe I'm like
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: so focused because she's you know, she's got very particular
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: kinks and I'm really focused on on doing that that
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: I kind of neglect myself. There's also the whatever that is.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: There's also the flip side of kinks.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so like stinks you could like being choked, but
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: like you don't necessarily like choking someone. Oh okay, yeah,
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: so like so your partner I was the bottom, but
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: here she wants me to be a top. You might
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: you might not enjoy like the flip side of every
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: single kink that you also enjoy like you might you
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: might not like performing it.
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: You might just like receiving it or whatever it is.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I think that's a solid argument. I was going to
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: go with Esther Perell's book Mating in Captivity, where she
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: talks about the and we talked about this on the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: show million times, but the inverse relationship between familiarity and eroticism,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: and so she talks about how and it's actually really interesting.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: It's like kind of embedded in evolutionary psychology as well,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: that like Homo sapiens as a species seem to have
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: like a four to seven year like interest like complex
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: with one person where they'll fix it on him for
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: that long, but then it kind of becomes too familiar
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: to them. And that's about the same amount of years
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: it would take to like raise a child to be
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: like independent, and then they would kind of split off
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: in pair bond again. But anyway, in her White Jim
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: kicks his kids out seven years old, hit the road, Johnny. No,
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: but they talk about in her book, she talks about
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: how kid's a soft My nine year old is still
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: living in home. By your day age, I'll spoken a
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: black and mile a week. So they she talks about
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: which a deal sponsor the show Black and Mild. I mean,
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: you know you're not getting a lot offers these days.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: If we were getting alcohol, I'm very happy.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, just send us cartons. Honestly, we don't even
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: need your money.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: No, but like she talks about how the inverse relationship
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: between we do.
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Need your money. By the way, we'll also Black and Mild.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: You become more familiar with somebody, more emotionally bonded with them,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: And she says that familiarity and that that sense of
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: deeper connection often runs contrary to eroticism, and so a
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: lot of and this is something shocks about in her book,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: is that why is it that a lot of long
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: term couples lose the spice of the bedroom and often
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: find that that's not something that's organically happening like it
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: once did. And she explains that couples that have been
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: together long term actually have to kind of work on
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: finding the stranger again in their spouse, finding something different
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: about them, seeing them in a different light. And to me,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: from what you've described the hermit, I think that aligns
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: perfectly with what doctor Perel would say, is is what
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: happened in your relationship, right, So like with your long
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: term spouse, you found that you can't objectify her that way,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: you can't get interested in the kinks with her, probably
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: because you're deeply in love with her and you're feeling
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit of conflict with that.
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: Whereas with this.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Other partner, who is more of a temporary partner and
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: outside partner, they are unfamiliar to you.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: And so Esther Perel would say, and that's probably why
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: eroticism came very naturally, is because you don't care about
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: them in the same way, Like there's not that depth
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: of familiarity. So it's one hypothesis I don't think it's
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: one size fits all. There's plenty of couples out there
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: that are deeply in love and deeply kinky, and it
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: totally works. The eroticisms off the charts. I would argue, though, that.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: They are more of the outlier than they are the
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: bulk of the data, at least what I think I've
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: seen in relationship theory, and at least what I've seen
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: with Esther Perell so relatability.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: There, Yeah, any other advice, I mean, like, does he
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: draw any kind of lines in like the open relationship thing,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: because like I really get the sense that like, Okay,
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: that's that's fine, she's gonna be doing this, and like
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: sounds like he's worked through that, that's fine, he's okay
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: with it, except for the fact that he's noticing the
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: pattern that's causing a problem. And that's a very difficult
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: thing to bring up to somebody.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: But the problem that he's noticing isn't It doesn't strike
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: me as something that he has a problem with, No,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, it's like he's noticing a problem
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: being developed for his partner.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Yea, her connecting with a certain type that's just going
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: to leave her feeling right hurt.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which is an interesting I think twist on the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: open relationship concept, right, because a lot of times the
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: open relationship discussion is about get have your fun, like,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: don't don't make them your primary I'm still your home, Like,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: let's have certain boundaries around how much of your.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: Life we give access to.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: But this is an interesting, you know boundary that I've
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: scenes show up in open couples or people in the lifestyle.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Is that Look, I don't have a problem with anything
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: that you're doing, except that you keep getting hurt, that
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: you keep getting emotionally invested. They're not a threat to me.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: Our relationship is sturdy. Yeah, but as the hermit said,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I have to fucking clean it up. Yeah, you're coming
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: home to party. Yeah, and then they break your heart
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: because you keep perpetually doing this predictable thing. I have
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: to clean that up. Does that become a conversation about
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: does this mean I don't want to keep doing the
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: open relationship thing at some point?
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: I mean I do kind of like the what Whitney
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: had said earlier, which is just kind of almost in
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: a way, kind of start to step back and just
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: be like, Okay, well, here to.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Help maybe I'm not there to clean it up, like
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: I'm going to allow you to sort of like deal
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: with the pain and not necessarily comfort you.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: Maybe not not comfort gosh, I don't know, Like I
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: feel like there should be some initial like acknowledgment. I
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: see you're going through something, but but then step back
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: a little, like I'm gonna let you do your thing
• 52:59
  Speaker 4: because I get pulled into it and that's too much
• 53:01
  Speaker 4: for me.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: If that is too much for you, there's a dignity
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: to discomfort. And I think our former co host Whitney
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: said it acceptably well, but the hermit, I think you
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: could say it better. And I want to find that out.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: One's considered passable co host Whitney.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So here's the deal though about pot therapy. A
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: lot of people don't know. We have bylaws. We're a
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: real corporation, and so as three you know, cis middle
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: aged white guys. We only have one seat for diversity,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: and so we went with a woman for a while,
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: you know, and that went okay. I think we got
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of female audience members because of the whole
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Whitney phenomenon.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: But you know, how are we doing.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: With the you know, Introverted Black demo. You know, this
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: is our chance every three years we just swap out
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: whoever the minority is.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: It's great.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I think this is this is a good idea statistical
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: minority of the four seats.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: Obviously, it's what I meant.
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: Feel free to flip that whole section and just use
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: that as your ring tone. This Jim explaining that they're
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: definitely not a monologue that could ever come back. And
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I will hear this at the next scoop Fest. What
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: what was it last scoop Fest? Somebody had a clip
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: of me. I don't remember what it was, probably just
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: the latest episode of the fucking show. It was, Yeah,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I think I think it was. Yeah. Anyway, the hermit
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: excited to hear more about your work. I hope that
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: you'll write into the future because those first years of
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: the profession community mental health, we've all been there, we've
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: all done our time, and definitely, I think it's important
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: to get those kinds of questions too on the show
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: because there are a lot I have no idea why
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: of colleagues in this profession that like to listen to
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: our show. So this is a great chance for us
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: to talk shop with you.
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: As well.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: But hang in there and please write in and we
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: look forward to you joining our team. We're gonna take
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we're talking about
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: putting my cat to sleep.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: You're listening to pod therapy.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Today's episode is brought to you by Jake Schneider, Moudia,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Richard Macy, Sonny Boy, thunder Trooper Falk and Scoops. Let
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: per tell you, motherfucker, Sandra mcaffe, Gabriella, I'm a Adam
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Warren and not here Knightley And if you'd like to
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: sponsor the show, become a there pretty sure picture on
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: dot com slash right.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: So far, I have no points. Uh, this is my
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: moment though, I'm coming back.
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, here we go.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: It's all George Clooney or Leo.
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna He's gonna show at Lisa Bonet.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: Oh ship buzz yeow.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: Lenny Kravin Yeah yeah, okay, Nicole Kidman's on that list.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: I don't really know.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: You Kravitz getting Nicole Kidman. I only remember that because
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: I made a Bill Cosby joke earlier did and I
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: believe Bill Cosby, Uh he was not.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: I don't.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I don't think he was terribly kind to Lisa Bonet
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: when she was on the Cosby Show. I think he
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: was kind to her when she was on The Cosby Show,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: but but like kind of fired her, oh when for
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: like because he didn't like her life.
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: And this is Missus Huxtable.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: No, this is one of these the older daughter on
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: the on the Cosby Show, you played the oldest daughter.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think I if I if I'm remembering right,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Like part of it was he did not like Lenny Kravitz.
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: Wow, that might have come later.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: I might be.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: I might be.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Because she was the one that had the spin off.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Do you remember that.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: Several of them didn't. Yes, she was in a different world, Yeah, world.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Which did like three seasons.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was That was a shame. That was.
• 56:27
  Speaker 8: Remember the theme song, It's a different world from where
• 56:31
  Speaker 8: you come from something like that when we come from
• 56:35
  Speaker 8: good okay, but.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: We will be very soon actually, uh, Jennifer sp.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Esposito, your friends Buzz Charlie Sheen now was about like.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Buzz Martin Sheen, Rene, Amelia West Events, Yeah to all
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Zoe Saldana, Suki Waterhouse Arena.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Shayak renees Elwigger. That's the only one on that list.
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: I even recognized al Uha who did she s?
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: But you like know who these people are?
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: I know her, I don't know the other No, Renee
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: and uh Zoe Saldana and Zoe she's an Avatar yeah, and.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Then the Marvel right, yes, yeah, the uh Guardians buzz
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: that's right, yeah, yeah.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: James Cameron so close is the director of Avatar.
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: The gig it did get harder. And I don't know
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: the answer.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: James Cameron.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: I'll give you, give you a hints. He was on
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: a very early episode of Inside the Actors Studio. He
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: was he was a student and he asked a question.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: Buzz Brad Cooper. Yeah, points.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: I like how you heard him as Brad was like
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: when he.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: Was younger, he was back Brad, And I believe he
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: introduces himself in that clip as Brad Cooper.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Okay he does. Actually, you're right, all last one here
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: we go. Uh, Sandra Bullock, Ashley Judd.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Buzz, Buzz, Billy Bob Thornton. No, God, damn it.
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: I was the guy who abused picked his face cruise,
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: Janet Jackson buzz. It's like Jesse.
• 58:46
  Speaker 7: James No, okay, okay, A porn.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Star, Janet Jackson, Sally Richardson, Michael.
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: Jackson, Sally Richardson, Okay, go through the list again, Sally
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: Jesse Fields, Sandra Bullock, Ashley Judd, Ashley, Penelope Cruz, Janet Jackson,
• 59:11
  Speaker 5: Sally Richardson, Tom Cruise.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: No, alright, let's go with Richardson.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: Let's keep the reverend Jesse Jackson.
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: All right, all right, all right, okay, Wow, he's digging
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: deep into.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: The nineties, like the well dry you got one more
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: for us?
• 59:41
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: I got more.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: Let's see, let's suck it. Let's get one more.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: That's right, Okay, Well, that one's definitely not all right.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Never gotta I gotta find one that people that you know,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: welcome back to the.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Show with it all right, here we go, Putting My
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Kiddy Cat to Sleep by Bill Cosby. Hi all, I've
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: been a listener since your appearance on ICs a long
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: time ago. I'm currently in therapy and I've booked a
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: few weekly appointments in light of this challenging time. But
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to take from my I wanted a take
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: from my favorite therapy podcasts. I will point out that
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: favorite is spelt with a nad Marmalade aka Marma.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: My gosh, my mom's name in my phone is Marmy,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: oh from.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: My cat Marmalade. Marmy died on August fourth. Both my
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: wife and I are completely devastated. The voice in my
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: head keeps telling me it's weird to be so torn
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: up over a pet, but I think context is important.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: We adopted this cat before I lived with my now wife.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: We were eighteen at the time, and the cat lived
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: with me in my tiny apartment. It was just her
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: and me, and we bonded really heavily. I was raised
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: with two reticent parents, and I grew up showing and
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: being shown very little emotion. Wife, a girlfriend at the time,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: would comments on that very often when we got the cat.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: She was a rescue because she was severely neglected, and
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: it appears that she was very grateful for being adopted.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: She wouldn't leave my side. She always sat in my lap,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: over my shoulder, on top of me when I was
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: lying down. She helped me understand both good and bad emotions,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: because I would sometimes get annoyed at her for being
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: so clingy because I was trying to cook, study practice
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: my instruments. I was in music school at the time,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: so a lot of time was spent practicing, etc. My
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: now wife has always made comments lovingly that I loved
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Marmee more than her. Unfortunately, Marmy's health has declined over
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: the past year and half, making her even more clingy
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: than We had to give her medication twice per day.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: This has caused some more annoyance because it is very
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: difficult to do anything. I would get very little work
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: done when I worked from home because Marmie would need
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: constant attention and want to sit over my shoulders to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: where I couldn't use my computer. Times that I would
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: get annoyed at that and close the door to my
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: office and not be bothered. She would also always wake
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: up with me and we would do our routine before
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I had to leave for work. At the same time,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I would get annoyed that I can't eat breakfast without
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: her trying to eat it as well. Can't I eat
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: in peace?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: I would ask.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Fast forward to August fourth I was off, I woke up.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: I couldn't find Marmie anywhere. She was not in her
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: usual spots, so I assumed she was sleeping in our
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: bed under the covers. I was actually a bit relieved
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: that I could do my morning routine, washroom, feed the cats,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: and eat my breakfast without any interruptions. When I was
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: done with all that, it was time to give her
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: her medication. So I went to the bedroom, woke up
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: my wife and asked if Marmie was in bed with her.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: She said that she was not, but she heard her
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: get up and got around six am. I was concerned,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: so we started looking for her. We found her behind
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: the couch, non responsive. We rushed her to the vet.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: The vet couldn't find anything wrong in terms of her
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: blood work or heart, but they believed that Marmie could
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: have a stroke or a mass in her brain that
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: we didn't ever notice. After five hours of IV and
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: heated blankets and water bottles, her temperature was not coming
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: back up and she was still non responsive. We made
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: the difficult decision to put her to sleep. My question
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: to you, guys, if there even is a question, how
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: do I deal with the grief while simultaneously feeling incredibly
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: guilty For every time I got annoyed at her, and
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: I kept picturing me sitting in the living room not
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: five feet from her, happily eating my breakfast.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: Enjoying not having a cat.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: With me while she was behind the couch, literally dying.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: I keep telling myself that even if we found her earlier,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: there wouldn't be anything else we could have done, but
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: I keep reliving it in my head. I go back
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: to every time I left the house late for work,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: slightly annoyed that she made me late, and kicked myself
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: for not enjoying the time I had with her at
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: the time. It's been about a week now writing this
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: on August tenth, and the pain is subsiding a bit,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: but I still have the immense sense of guilt. We
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: got Marmie at eighteen, where now thirty six, so she
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: was nineteen years old approximately when she passed. I know
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: that's a very long time to have a pet, but
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: it's never enough time. I would trade a lot more
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: things to have even just a few more days with her.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: The house feels so empty without her. She was just
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: one cat we have too, but her personality filled up
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: most of the house. She was a fantastic companion for
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: eighteen years of my life, and I don't know who
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: I am without her lying in my lap and over
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: my shoulder. How can I move on while still honoring
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: her memory. Thanks anonymous. But what celebrity had sex with
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: both cats?
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, asking the right question.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's get down to the breast. Call me crazy,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: but it just feels right, John Mayer, John May definitely.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: Finally, Yeah, it depends on.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, plenty of times.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: Perfect.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Writer. This sucks and I'm sorry, and I can completely
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: relate to this because like with Layla, when we put
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: her down her last I don't know, six months, it
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: was terrible and actually, if I really, if I'm on
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: it's probably the last year of her life was not good.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: And but the last six months, especially because she had dementia,
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: she didn't know where she was. She couldn't like she
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: didn't know if she was inside or outside, so like
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: she was peeing everywhere, shitting everywhere.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: And so it was like and felt like annoyed.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it was really difficult because like I
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: had to keep her in the kitchen because it was
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: the only hard surface floor that we had. I couldn't
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: put her in her crate because she would just then
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: I'd have to give her a bath every morning, you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: And I was like, this isn't any better, So it
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: just had to And so like every morning I wake
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: up and it's like, fuck, I got to clean up this,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: and it's you know, it's five am. I'm tired, I
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: got to go to the gym, I gotta do all
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: this stuff. And it was frustrating. And I had that
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: same thought too, which is like, she knows I'm frustrated,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: Like she can pick up on that. She knows I'm frustrated,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: and even though I know she can't help it, it
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't change me being frustrated with her, and like, and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: it's knowing that that was her last six months was
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: every morning me being frustrated was just incredibly heartbreaking. And
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: so then yeah, so then now you're kind of left
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: with that guilt, like what do I What do I
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: do with that information? And I don't know. I'm still
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: trying to figure that out myself.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: I still feel guilt about.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: It, Nick every day. Yes, constantly feel guilty about it.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of frustration, especially because like that stage,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: they are really clingy.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: They do want you. You're their comfort.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: But then you still have to operate, You still have
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: to go to work, you stelf, have to handle things,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: do dishes, have breakfast, and so there I think this
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: is true of not just pets, but anybody in life, right,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: anybody who's now dependent on you, you know, medically, or something's
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: going on. There is a guilty pleasure, I guess, or
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: a guilt for having the relief of not dealing with
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: them sometimes.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: So you get these.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Breaks from them, like you know this writer did that morning.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: And you do.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: You feel relief, You feel you know, grateful to not
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: have more work to do or to not be stressed.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: And then you look back and you're like, my god,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: every spare minute that I could have been with them
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: now feels like a betrayal. Which is a standard that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: is so impossibly high, Like we just can't live that way,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: Like no human being is conditioned in this way that
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: we can always be attuned to any other thing, whether
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: it's a pad of child, the loved one, anybody. We
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: do what is required, We give them the best we
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: can while still maintaining all the other plates that we
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: are spinning. And one of those plates is your own
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: mental health. Like you have a finite amount of bandwidth
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: to give to your loved ones, or to people in
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: your life, or to your heads. So like getting a
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: breakfast and just being left alone doing some work and
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: closing the door and being able to focus. That's not
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: a betrayal. That's you charging up the battery that then
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: later allows you to give the many, many kindnesses that
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: you did to Marmalade into your family and to everybody
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: in your life. So I just would challenge you writer
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: to maybe reconsider the way you're framing that as instead
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: of I was taking from her, these are moments that
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I stole away from her. To look at that as
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: these are moments I plugged into the wall and came
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: back later with the energy and the patients that were
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: required for whatever she needed at the time.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The other thing too, that like I have been
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: doing lately is being more present with Penny, my other dog. Yeah,
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: you know, because then I realized, like after Layla passed,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: that you know, there will be times with Penny where
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of annoyed that she's like needing to lick
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: my face right now and I'm trying to like do
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: other things. Yeah, but then I have that moment or
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: I have that thought that I realize or I remember,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: at some point in my future, I will give anything
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: to have this moment back.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna sit in it for a minute. Yeah,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: and just experience it. Then I'll push her away.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: That is a mentality that I think only people who
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: have gone through the lift was worth it. Yeah, like
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: that mortality. Nobody yelps like my dogs, whether it's a family.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: Member or a pet.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: When you've been through that experience, you really relish. You
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: learn to now have that perspective you never would have
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: had before, which is, hey, take the extra minute to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: appreciate that. Don't be in a hurry. Work will still
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: be there, the rest of your bills will still need
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: to get paid, there will always be another email to answer,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: there will always be something that needs your attention. Just
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: enjoy this for now. That's huge life advice, man. And
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you're not even a life coach.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 9: I know someday someday doubt it. You're not cut out
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 9: for it the game, I agree, I know.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: I think, gosh, you bring up really great points, Nick,
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 4: and relishing what time you have left with with Penny
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: is really important. I think our cat's definitely getting old.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: In the last year, there have been a lot of
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: changes that make me very nervous. I'm like, oh, these
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: are like big personality changes, and some of them are annoying,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: like howling me owing in the middle of the night
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: when she never used to do that, or like it
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: seems like she thinks we're gone and gets surprised when
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: we like are still there. I'm just like, this is
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: so weird. He never used to do that. So I'm
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: trying to use your experiences honestly, Nick, And you know
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: friends I have that have lost animals where I'm like, man,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: she drives me crazy, But I'm like, Okay, I'll take
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: howling for like thirty seconds in the middle of the night,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 4: even if I wake up and just go back to bed,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: and it's fine. Like I don't know, but I think
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 4: that there is a level. I was actually just talking
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: to a friend about this because her her dog is
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 4: getting much older, and she's like been talking consistently when
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 4: do you make the decision something she just mentioned to
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: me literally is yesterday or today. She was like, I
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: just am really having trouble knowing this is the date
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: I'm deciding to like end my dog's life. And I
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: was like, I'm pretty sure Nick said that exact same thing.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: That was like you didn't think about it before him,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: but once you were there in it with Laila it's like, oh,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: that's like a heavy.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because once you schedule it, everything is the last thing. Yeah,
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: even stupid shit, like you know, it's like I think
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: we were gonna we scheduled to have her put down
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: on a Saturday, and then so it's like the Saturday
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: before is like okay, well this is her last, or
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: the Sunday last, or it's like yeah, this is her
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: last Sunday, you know, and then it's like okay, yeah,
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: and then you just get closer and closer, and then
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: it's like it just gets It's a snowball and it
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: just gets bigger and bigger.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: Well, and honestly, she had been kind of like dealing
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: with this and like struggling with it. But I had
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: mentioned what I guess you both had talked about, which
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: is having someone come to your home, and she was like,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: I didn't even think of that because you just think
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: of I'm taking my dog into that. It's like a
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: lab so kind of a bigger dog. She's like, oh
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: my gosh, and they don't like the vent. They're going
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: to be stressed. I was like, no, no, no, do this,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: And I like described the whole process that you both
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: kind of described and she's like, oh, that sounds way better.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 4: And she had just this weekend called her vet task
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 4: if that was even an option, and what that looks like.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: And so I have a cousin that she's a retired
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: vet now. But she does that for like just the neighborhood.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: She just kills everybody's pets.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: Well, love that for her.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: She's like, I am the angel of death.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: The neighbors call me and I come over and like
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: give them the shot and put their pet down.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 10: But just like in the in the house and the
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 10: kindest way possible, I relate to the writer in the
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 10: sense that for Nick, he got to see it coming,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 10: got to plan it a little bit more ahead.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: For us, Pumpkin was just deteriorating in health really rapidly,
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: but we never knew what her last good day was,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: and we were managing her symptoms. She was still independent,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: she's still eating, drinking, going to the bathroom. We're having
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: all these issues with her, but we weren't at a
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: place where it felt like we were at death's door,
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: but we felt like we were within a year of this.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: And then she had a really bad health event that
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: was very sudden and put her in a situation where
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: if we did not take action within twenty four hours,
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: they were going to have to do all these procedures
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: and then she probably wouldn't survive the procedures. But she
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: couldn't just be left in that medical situation either for
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: us to build up the ability to do this. So
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: it was very urgent. So like I kind of relate
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: to the writer in that sense of like you suddenly
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: find your pet in medical distress. That did happen to us.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: And then we're rushing her to the vet and she
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: was responsive, but she was in severe medical distress and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: so they had to sedate her while they had her,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: and then we had to make the decision to euthanizer
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: the following day, and so we had the person come
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: to our house and stuff on short notice. And that
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: was a lot, right, and we actually decided to keep
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: her at the vet overnight because of the medical situation
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: she was facing and we had to leave keeper comfortable. Yeah,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: we had to keep her comfortable because we didn't feel
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: safe having her at the house because we wouldn't know
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: how to respond and if that was, you know, the
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: end of her life. We gave them instructions on like
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: you do have our permission to euthanize her if you
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: know the medical event happens.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 7: You explained the prayers that you wanted, said.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Right right, Yeah, we wrote them down, so like you
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: know that I relate to that sense of like, this
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: isn't how I wanted it to go, Like I wanted
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: my last good days. I want to defeat her steak,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you know, and like give her chocolate, like you know,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: just I had all these thoughts of like how I
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: would want the end to be. We didn't get to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: do any of that, you know. It was just comfort
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: her for the last heartbeats, give her a nice warm,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: you know, goodbye, holding her, speaking to her, hoping she
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: can hear our voices, but she was mostly unresponsive. So
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: it's a heartbreaking thing, writer, it really is. And that's
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: the thing about death. You rarely get advanced notice, whether
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: it's in a person or a pet, and so you
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: just find yourself never being ready for it, never being
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: equipped for it, even when you do have the time.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: It's just what you're experiencing doesn't show us that you
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: did anything wrong. It shows us that you're a loving,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: compassionate person and somebody you love past.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and what I was what I was trying to
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: remind a friend of mine when she's like, oh, it's
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 4: just hard choosing a death date or the other option.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: With her cats she had they like had medical events,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: and she was like, that was traumatizing, you know, happening
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: out of your control, but thinking about it being in
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: your control is also struggle. But I reminded her, I'm like,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: just think if your dog was like out in the wild,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: they would have died long ago because these they wouldn't
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: have been able to walk or run, or like they've
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: been killed by a bigger animal or just whatever eaten
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 4: mushrooms out in the little harus.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: Bigger problem than.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: People realize, So I try to I think that's really
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: hard to remember in the moment you think I should
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: have done things differently or better, but like, think about
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: what a wonderful life you're in animal did have while
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: they were here, despite the last six months out of
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: seventeen years, like for Leyla and nik Or, I don't
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: know how long Pumpkin.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: Like the last two days out of almost twenty years
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: that he had marmalade.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, And so it kind of goes back to
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 4: what you were saying, Jim where it's like, what what
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 4: were the positives from this? Like we like it's easy
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: to focus on those negatives. Why didn't I give more?
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 4: Why didn't I spend more time with them? Or just
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 4: why wasn't I less annoyed in those moments because you
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 4: did have other things to do in Annoyance is part
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: of the human experience, and you can still love something
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 4: immensely and be annoyed by it, Right, I do that
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 4: with either all time.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, children too, that's too. But it doesn't mean
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: that they didn't live a wonderful life. You gave them
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: all of these wonderful you know needs once like comforts.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: Snuggles, she slept in your bed. That's adorable.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 3: Like that is able.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: See, I I mean going back to the whole guilt thing,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Like I still have a lot of guilt about being
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: frustrated and being angry at stuff she couldn't control. And
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: I'm also frustrated with myself that I probably should have
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: done that much sooner. Yeah, because like it got to
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: a point where you know, she was like, Okay, well
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: we always associate when when is it time? By when
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: did they stop eating?
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: Yes?
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, but yeah, but that's one thing like you need
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: to look at it, and there's multiple things to look at.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: Because Layla never lost herrappits.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 4: Like no, treh.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is the only reason she was alive was
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: just to eat. True.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 5: That's an interesting point because you're right, you do he
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 5: that with animals, like are they eating still?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: And Leila be like, hell yeah, but she she was.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: She was eating when they gave her the shot, Like
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: she was still eating ice cream and peanut butter and
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: all that. And but like the thing is, yeah, I
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: know she was amazing, but like the thing was was
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: like her life was so scary from her perspective. She
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: couldn't hear, so the things that she could hear scared her.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: And so like I always think like, oh, if I
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: had more time, I would have you know, I would
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: have held her more, I would have pad her more.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't have because she didn't want to be touched.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: She didn't want to be Yeah, she was scared of everything.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: She had a bowl and as she was eating, if
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: it moved or it bumped into something, it would make
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: a noise. She got scared of it. Like, so she
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: was just her last several months were just living in
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: constant fear, and then it's like, yeah, she probably didn't
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: need to go through that, and the humane thing would
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: have probably been to put her down earlier. But you know,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: as a pet parent, you just do your best. Yeah,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: that's all you can do.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you want them around forever. So it's like, how
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 4: do you make that decision? And then yeah, to find
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 4: them suddenly passed away that is so shocking. Or I
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 4: know Marmie wasn't passedway. It sounds like she was really
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 4: declining quickly, and that's that is really emotional. Man. End up,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 4: you sitting there eating breakfast, you didn't know your your
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 4: cat was in that experience, Like you didn't know that.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: There's no way for you to know that, I mean,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 4: and maybe deep down in your gut you're like, wow,
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: that's weird, like Marmei's not here, but I mean yeah,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 4: part of you is like, oh, maybe she just slept
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 4: in a little later today, Like great, I get a
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 4: little break to but.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I have the same experience like the next
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: morning waking up and not having to clean the kitchen right,
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: not having.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 4: It a little bit night. Like even though you're devastated,
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 4: you're also like.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, and that's when I realized, like God, there
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: was so much about our life that revolved around what
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: Layla was doing that it really freed us up quite
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: a bit.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: I used to have to give pumpkin insulin shots three
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: times a day, Like we couldn't leave the house because
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: it would be like it's she needs this on time,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: and like for years, and I was the only one
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: in the family that could do it. And so like
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you couldn't travel, you could go on trips, like it
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: was just a whole thing. So there's a huge there.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: It is that's no self sacrifice, all my noble sacrifice.
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: So writer, you know, in this case, obviously we're just
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: relating to you. I think that we feel for you,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: and at the same time, we just want to remind
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you to remember those you know, eighteen years of great memories, all.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: That you contribute it. Yeah, and she saved you.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: You know, she broke your heart opens that you could
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: experience emotion like, I'm so glad you had that relationship.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: It was formative for you for your marriage, for your future.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: And you were a wonderful you know cat dad, and
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: so like keep that in mind too, that you gave
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: this cat such a good long life so much longer
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: than most people get to enjoy their pet, probably because
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: you were so good at it. So we just hope
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: that you'll remember the positives and you know, just grieve.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: There's no way around that, there's no short way to grieve.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: You just go through it and then one day you
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: feel a little bit lighter in your spirit. You'll feel
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: guilty for that, but it's okay because that's part of
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: how you go forward and bringing your love to your
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: other cat. As Nick was saying too, that's really really important. Well,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: we're going to take a quick break and when we
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: come back, we are wrapping up the show. You are
• 1:21:02
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• 1:21:04
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  Speaker 3: I'm Neck, I'm Jim.
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  Speaker 2: Thanks, and we'll see your appointment next week.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 3: And we've all dated Jacob obvious, that's the big crossover.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is one of the hard ones here, Nicole Mitchell,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: Melby Whitney Houston.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: Well, don't let him do it. He actually knows malb Yeah,
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I can't count.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: Tracy Eddie Murphy, Edie.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: And their daughter used to hang out with me in
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: the in the sound booth when I was sho was Mel.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah they have Mel Melonetti have a daughter together. Oh okay,
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: there you go. And she was like, I don't know,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 3: she was whatever.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: She was a young young kid when when Mel was
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: doing the show and so like, and I had like
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: a sitting room area behind the sound booth, and so
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: she would like hang out and there and and read
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: and and just like do work or maybe pop up
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: into the into the sound booth, and there's three of you,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: one that showed up today
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: All right, bye bye