Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / HORRIFIC SCHOOL SHOOTING SPAWNS REALITY SHOW?

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HORRIFIC SCHOOL SHOOTING SPAWNS REALITY SHOW? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Parkland, the Parkland shooting, words
0:18
Speaker 1: that will be ingrained in our memories, our children's memories
0:22
Speaker 1: from now on. Fourteen students massacred, three staff all dead
0:30
Speaker 1: at the hands of the Parkland shooter, Nicholas Cruise, and now,
0:37
Speaker 1: believe it or not, that mass murder has spawned our
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Speaker 1: reality show. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
0:49
Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation and
0:51
Speaker 1: series XM one eleven. Where did it all start? Take
0:56
Speaker 1: a listen to this. My scient is instilling the highchools.
1:00
Speaker 1: He said he heard noises in top and he thinks
1:03
Speaker 1: they're shooting going on. It's a school police. Okay, we
1:07
Speaker 1: do have police on Seminee. What is your emergency? I
1:12
Speaker 1: think I hear gunshots. When is the address, sir? I
1:17
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm at the in Parkment Oisles. It sounds
1:21
Speaker 1: like it's over Tooyage in high school or George Douglas.
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Speaker 1: Might have been gunshots maybe fifteen minutes ago. So then
1:26
Speaker 1: I just heard four or five right in a row
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Speaker 1: just a few minutes ago. Let you don't want to
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Speaker 1: hear a nine on one call about gunshots near a
1:32
Speaker 1: high school listen nine one one, what is your emergency?
1:36
Speaker 1: Such at Stubborn Douglas, someone's shooting up the school. I'm sorry,
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Speaker 1: I can't hear you. What's happening? Marks? Someone is doing? What? Hello? Hello?
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Speaker 1: Hello Mark? A couple of high schools is being shot up?
2:04
Speaker 1: Are you at the school? I can't hear are you?
2:10
Speaker 1: Are you at the school? To NIM one one call
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Speaker 1: or trying to whisper into the phone school is being
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Speaker 1: shot up? And then hangs up, joining me an all
2:21
Speaker 1: star panel. At first, I want to go to David Vai,
2:24
Speaker 1: a crime reporter in Miami. Harold, David, thank you for
2:28
Speaker 1: being with us. Why was the nine one caller whispering? Well,
2:31
Speaker 1: the nine one one caller was whispering because there was
2:35
Speaker 1: a shooter inside that was shooting up the school. And
2:38
Speaker 1: of course, you know, and just like we saw a
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Speaker 1: New Balda and other places where we have people who
2:42
Speaker 1: are desperately calling NIM one one from inside the premises
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Speaker 1: on these school shootings, So that nine one one caller
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Speaker 1: is actually inside Marjorie's time and while trying to call
2:54
Speaker 1: nine one one, and he's trying to whisper so the
2:58
Speaker 1: shooter doesn't see him. He's trying to not attract the
3:03
Speaker 1: shooter's attention. Yes, and you know, this was obviously a
3:07
Speaker 1: huge stunning event for a lot of the students that
3:09
Speaker 1: were there. So there was a lot of confusion about
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Speaker 1: where where the shooter was, where, um you know what,
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Speaker 1: when help was coming, whether you know, whether there was
3:20
Speaker 1: more than one shooter right, So it was a lot
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Speaker 1: of confusion. So that's why they hence the whispering. Take
3:24
Speaker 1: a listen now to our friends at ABC. At two
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Speaker 1: in the afternoon, gunshots ring out in the South Blorida
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Speaker 1: High school, terrified students hiding in classrooms during the gunman's rampage.
3:35
Speaker 1: Oh God. The shooter reportedly first pulled a fire alarm
3:39
Speaker 1: to get more students out of the classroom, maximizing potential victims.
3:43
Speaker 1: As soon as the fire joe got pulled, the fire
3:45
Speaker 1: alarm got pulled, and kids were evacuating. I heard five pops.
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Speaker 1: He was just very focused. Who's very focused on what
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Speaker 1: he was doing? Nuts. Yeah, I was in the classroom
3:55
Speaker 1: and all of my air was shocked, and I was
3:58
Speaker 1: just like, oh my gosh, what's happening. And we're just
4:00
Speaker 1: sitting on the floor and we're just panicking. Why would
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Speaker 1: anyone want to capitalize and make blood money off the
4:09
Speaker 1: park Land sheeting with a reality show? Aren't these nine
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Speaker 1: one one calls all the reality we need. Here are
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Speaker 1: our friends from ABC. SWAT teams swarming the perimeter, searching
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Speaker 1: the school, then moving inside. I have by the entrance
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Speaker 1: on the west side of the school, and I want
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Speaker 1: to We don't know if Erica Duval filming this video
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Speaker 1: as she and classmates were rescued by a SWAT team.
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Speaker 1: Terrified children let out from their hiding places with hands
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Speaker 1: in the air. Students in this classroom waiting in horror
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Speaker 1: for help to run outside. Chaos, students streaming out of
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Speaker 1: the building, some running, many with their hands on their heads,
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Speaker 1: A sea of backpacks bandoned on the ground. Emergency vehicles
5:02
Speaker 1: rushing to the scene, Paramedics in a race to save
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Speaker 1: the wounded. Scenes of relief as parents comforted children who
5:09
Speaker 1: reached safety. This mother was actually right outside the school
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Speaker 1: when the gunfire began. What did you hear? What did
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Speaker 1: you see? I heard? And then I texted him and
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Speaker 1: my other son found out that my other son got out,
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Speaker 1: found him at Walmart, brought him home with a few friends.
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Speaker 1: Nearly twenty people dead, the halls and classrooms of the
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Speaker 1: school read with blood, and finally an arrest listen At
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Speaker 1: three pm. The shooter is still at large, but now
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Speaker 1: a possible description a white burgundy shirt wearing a black
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Speaker 1: pot and with their long black coats are short with
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Speaker 1: a group of curioms that were running up down. Just
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Speaker 1: before four pm, the nineteen year old suspect Nicholas Cruz
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Speaker 1: captured and taken into custody. Straight back out to David
6:01
Speaker 1: Vayer joining us the Miami Herald investigative crime reporter. David.
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Speaker 1: For those people that are not familiar with the Parkland shooting,
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Speaker 1: and how anyone could consider making a reality show out
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Speaker 1: of anything to do with the Parkland shooter is beyond me.
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Speaker 1: Please jog the memories people that are not familiar with
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Speaker 1: the shooting. Well. The shooting is Florida's deadliest and bloodiest
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Speaker 1: school school shooting in Florida history. It happened on February fourteenth,
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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, and this was when Nicholas Cruz, who had
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Speaker 1: been a former student at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High You,
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Speaker 1: took an uber to the school carrying his rifle case
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Speaker 1: when an AAR fifteenth style rifle and basically got out
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Speaker 1: in a very calculated and the methodical rampage where he
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Speaker 1: started on the first floor and began shooting at students
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Speaker 1: in the hallways and then through the windows of the
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Speaker 1: classrooms and then you know, went up to the third
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Speaker 1: floor and at the end of the rampage he had
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Speaker 1: killed seventeen people, fourteen of them students, three staff members
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Speaker 1: before before fleeing and eventually he was caught, you know,
7:18
Speaker 1: within a couple hours. So this is a huge, huge
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Speaker 1: event in Florida. It spurred some some gun reformed laws
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Speaker 1: and act and spurred you know, activism by students u
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Speaker 1: and really was sort of this really heartbreaking seminal event
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Speaker 1: for people here in South Florida, and it was one
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Speaker 1: that I think is going to be steered into our
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Speaker 1: collective memories or is it particularly parents for many years
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Speaker 1: to come, even parents that were not involved in the shooting,
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Speaker 1: not even near Parkland, Florida at the time of the shooting.
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Speaker 1: And now every time I dropped my children off at school,
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Speaker 1: I think about Parkland at least once or twice a
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Speaker 1: month dropping them off because Cheryl McCullum joining me, guys
8:03
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, forensic expert, founder, director of the Cold Case
8:08
Speaker 1: Research Institute. She's at Coldcase Crimes dot Org. Cheryl McCollum
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Speaker 1: the way Parkland shooting, and I know Cheryl and Andy
8:18
Speaker 1: Kahn with me along with the rest of the panel.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about the fact that a reality show, it
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Speaker 1: just I feel like I'm eating a dirt sandwich right now,
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Speaker 1: is happening as it relates to the Parkland massacre. I
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Speaker 1: know that's what we're here today talking about. But back
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Speaker 1: to the crime itself, Cheryl McCullum, it was so well
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Speaker 1: thought out and even the getaway how Nicholas Cruz blended
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Speaker 1: in with all the students that we're leaving and just
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Speaker 1: walked away. What more can you tell us about the
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Speaker 1: planning aspects and the crime scene what went down at
9:01
Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting, Cheryl mccollumb. Well, Nancy, he was prepared
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Speaker 1: to do mass damage. He had plenty of ammunition, He
9:07
Speaker 1: had an AAR fifteen. He had planned how he was
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Speaker 1: going to enter the school again. He took an uber
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Speaker 1: so he had a way there. He was going to
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Speaker 1: blend in after the massacre, and he literally walked away
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Speaker 1: and went to McDonald's walked Away Japan. Is the most
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Speaker 1: remarkable thing to me is that he pulled the fire alarm.
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Speaker 1: I mean that shows a hostility, that is without compared
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Speaker 1: to these other crimes. Out of the classrooms and to
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Speaker 1: kill them. Why do you say that? Del Carson joining me,
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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, also in the Florida
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Speaker 1: jurisdiction and former fed as an FBI agent, author of
9:48
Speaker 1: Arrest Proof Yourself. He's at del Carson Law dot com.
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Speaker 1: Go ahead, deal, if you want to elevate your kill count,
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Speaker 1: that's what you do. You put him in the hall
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Speaker 1: way where it's a narrow, confined spacing. You just spray
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Speaker 1: the area until you run out of ammunition to one
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Speaker 1: another day, set around and fire again. And that's precisely
10:10
Speaker 1: what happened Time Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, I'm getting to the reality show centered around
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Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting. But doctor Bethany Marshall, renown Psychoanala's joining
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Speaker 1: me out of Beverly Hills at doctor Bethany Marshall dot
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Speaker 1: com and star of Netflix Bling Empire. Doctor Bethany, I'm
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Speaker 1: going to get to the reality show, I promise, But
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Speaker 1: the thinking, I mean, the state doesn't have to prove
10:54
Speaker 1: a motive. And the trial is happening right now on
10:57
Speaker 1: the Parkland shooting. Believe it or not, it's taking this
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Speaker 1: long to go to trial. But that said, I'm going
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Speaker 1: to get to the reality show aspect. But the thinking,
11:06
Speaker 1: what would have led Cruise to do such a horrible thing?
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Speaker 1: I mean, he had already been kicked out of school,
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Speaker 1: off campus, right, Everyone in charge of the school had
11:18
Speaker 1: been told if you see this guy, kick him off.
11:21
Speaker 1: And here he shows up on campus. Everybody knows who
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Speaker 1: he is, and he is walking across campus with a
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Speaker 1: loaded backpack. Gee, I wonder what's in there? Right? You know, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: we don't even have to theorize about what's in his
11:35
Speaker 1: mind because there's so much research about school shooters and
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Speaker 1: it all points to the same kind of motivations he had.
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Speaker 1: They are a heterogeneous group, meaning no to our ali
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Speaker 1: they are not mentally ill. These are normal young men.
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Speaker 1: Usually usually they've had a series of losses, and we
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Speaker 1: know cruises adoptive mother died three months before the shooting. Actually,
12:00
Speaker 1: they are what we call grudge collectors. Every little perceived
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Speaker 1: bad happening in their life. They glom onto, they collect,
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Speaker 1: they perseverate, They obsess about those until they have built
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Speaker 1: a case against society. They always have what I've said
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Speaker 1: so many times on your show before, they always adopt
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Speaker 1: a fish and of Aril type strategy, meaning they stand
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Speaker 1: at the top of a staircase, they go into a
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Speaker 1: schoolroom and they lock the doors so that the kids
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Speaker 1: can't get out. They really are seeking a power differential
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Speaker 1: where they are in charge. They have this pathological perception
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Speaker 1: leading up to the shooting, the mass shooting, that they
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Speaker 1: are at the bottom of society and that everybody is
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Speaker 1: against them. So in some strange egomaniacal way, they put
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Speaker 1: themselves at the top by becoming a killing machine. I
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Speaker 1: think it's also interesting that this was on Valentine's Day,
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Speaker 1: the day where we celebrate love, and these shooters often
13:02
Speaker 1: feel they have the misperception of being profoundly unloved. Was
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Speaker 1: usually like in the case of this killer, there are
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Speaker 1: plenty of resources and people around them to support them,
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Speaker 1: but they feel unloved anyway, and they taken out on society.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Priya Banerjee is with ME board certified forensic pathologist
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Speaker 1: with anchor forensic pathology consulting doctor prea. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. All of these victims, nearly twenty shooting
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Speaker 1: victims at the hands of Nicholas Cruz, the Parkland shooter,
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Speaker 1: the trials happening right now, knew. I think many of
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Speaker 1: them knew they were dying. They knew they had been
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Speaker 1: in school, that shots rang out, and suddenly they're in
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Speaker 1: the floor bleeding, even with a slow or rapid loss
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Speaker 1: of blood. What would a shooting victim know? Would they
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Speaker 1: hear the screaming? Would they hear the feet running? Would
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Speaker 1: they be aware of their friends trying to crawl out
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Speaker 1: windows and hide behind desks? What would a person a
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Speaker 1: victim like that actually understand? What would they of? What
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Speaker 1: would they be aware? Thank you for having me. I think,
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Speaker 1: you know, I want to step back to something you said,
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Speaker 1: and then I'll address this point. I'm a mom, and
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Speaker 1: you know you and I have dealt with in our
14:27
Speaker 1: professional lives with gunshot victims. The ones with rifles are
14:33
Speaker 1: especially heinous, and I just can't even think about it
14:38
Speaker 1: from a personal level, but professionally, you know, when I
14:42
Speaker 1: think about these kids, kids, and just you know, and
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Speaker 1: a few adults dying unless they're shot in the head,
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Speaker 1: they're gonna feel it, they're going to realize it. It
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Speaker 1: could be quick, it could not be quick. You know,
14:54
Speaker 1: it depends what's injured, but they're going to be aware.
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Speaker 1: It's only once you're shot in the head are you
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Speaker 1: really like, you know, unconscious. But other than that, it's
15:03
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. It's the stress, the last moments of
15:07
Speaker 1: their lives being so traumatic. And they're saying their friends
15:13
Speaker 1: leaving them, crawling out windows, hiding, trying to get out
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Speaker 1: the door, and they're lying, they're bleeding out deactly, No
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Speaker 1: one's they're comforting. Everybody's scurrying away, right, So like, if
15:24
Speaker 1: you're injured, you're sort of left behind. I hate to
15:26
Speaker 1: say it, because it's a flight or fight response, right,
15:31
Speaker 1: And how are you going to fight out? Gun You're
15:32
Speaker 1: going to run away? Doctor Pria. I know you cannot
15:35
Speaker 1: even begin to estimate how many, hundreds, maybe even thousands
15:38
Speaker 1: of gunshot victims you've dealt with. But when you think
15:44
Speaker 1: back on all the gunshot autopsies that you have handled,
15:51
Speaker 1: can you even imagine some vulture vampire sucking the gore
16:06
Speaker 1: out of the Parkland sheeting and creating a reality show.
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Speaker 1: I mean, you've seen the bodies, You've done the autopsies. Oh,
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Speaker 1: it's it's camous. I you know, as someone who gets
16:20
Speaker 1: interviewed and done a variety of shows, it's never something
16:23
Speaker 1: you know. I'm always delicate about what I say because
16:26
Speaker 1: it is such. It's an unthinkable loss, and I am
16:31
Speaker 1: honestly speechless, which is a rarity to think that there's
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Speaker 1: a reality show. I don't even understand who wants to
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Speaker 1: profit off of this? You know, it's it's playing at,
16:44
Speaker 1: you know, people's weakest moments. It seems it's just vile
16:49
Speaker 1: to me. Guys, I want you to take a listen
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Speaker 1: to Jeff Marcus, one of the lead attorneys in the
16:58
Speaker 1: prosecution of Nicholas Cruise, questioning Danielle Woodard, are you aware
17:07
Speaker 1: that Richard Moore and Michael Donovan produce a reality TV show?
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Speaker 1: Why does that have to do it anything? Sir man?
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Speaker 1: All of a side whether or not it's relevant. And
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Speaker 1: I don't say the objestion is sustained or tell you
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Speaker 1: not to answer, then you need to answer the question.
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Speaker 1: Thank you A Are you aware of that? No? Well,
17:35
Speaker 1: then if she's not aware of it, why did she say,
17:39
Speaker 1: is this relevant? Because you know when I've got somebody
17:43
Speaker 1: on cross exam and I asked him a question and
17:47
Speaker 1: they turned to the judge side. Is that relevant? That
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Speaker 1: makes me want to know even more about it? Listen
17:55
Speaker 1: one more time listen. Are you aware that one of
17:58
Speaker 1: the episodes of the show was called Being Zachary Cruise? Answer?
18:06
Speaker 1: So one were you? Are you aware that Richard Moore
18:10
Speaker 1: and Michael Donovan have a show where they have an
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Speaker 1: episode called Being Zachary Cruise as a part of a
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Speaker 1: reality show. Are you aware of that too? David vae
18:25
Speaker 1: joining me crime reporter in that jurisdiction in Florida. He's
18:29
Speaker 1: with the Miami Harold. Who is this woman? Danielle Woodard.
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Speaker 1: So Danielle is Nicholas Cruise's biological sister. She did not
18:40
Speaker 1: grow up with Nicholas. Nicholas was born to um, an
18:46
Speaker 1: alcohol addicted, drug addicted prostitute who gave him up at birth.
18:53
Speaker 1: So Danielle's only contact when she would have been about
18:56
Speaker 1: twelve or so, I think when he was born, and
19:00
Speaker 1: she saw him as he was born, and then the
19:02
Speaker 1: baby was immediately whisked away to the adopted parents. So
19:08
Speaker 1: she was the daughter of this of the biological mom,
19:12
Speaker 1: and so she took the stand at in the defense
19:15
Speaker 1: to testify about her mother's behavior. Her addiction her basically
19:21
Speaker 1: drinking NonStop while she was while she had Nicholas in
19:25
Speaker 1: the womb. And the words she said was, you know,
19:28
Speaker 1: she was poisoned in her I'm sorry it was polluted
19:30
Speaker 1: in her womb. So that was the purpose of her testify.
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Speaker 1: She had never met her biological brother outside of that
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Speaker 1: one day, and that was the first time she had
19:39
Speaker 1: seen him. So long story short, it's the shooter's sister.
19:43
Speaker 1: I believe as somewhere in all of that is biology
19:47
Speaker 1: and shooters biological. Isn't it also true? David Avayer joining
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Speaker 1: us in Miami Harold that Nicholas Cruz was then taken
19:56
Speaker 1: in by very very loving family that very often would
20:03
Speaker 1: refuse to have him prosecuted when he would lash out
20:06
Speaker 1: at them in violence. Isn't that true? Yes? Absolutely so.
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Speaker 1: The bio the adoptive mother had a really really difficult
20:15
Speaker 1: time raising him. I mean, he was impulsive and he would,
20:19
Speaker 1: you know, bash the wall. Him and his brother would
20:21
Speaker 1: bash the walls. They would you know, kill animals, they
20:23
Speaker 1: would punch TVs. They were just you know, torment. But
20:26
Speaker 1: she kept him, she kept him, she didn't turn him in,
20:30
Speaker 1: and she kept loving him. So he had a loving
20:34
Speaker 1: home regardless of his birth mother. Isn't that true? Correct?
20:39
Speaker 1: That is that is absolutely true. So this is the
20:43
Speaker 1: Parkland shooters sister on the stand, and I've got to
20:49
Speaker 1: say to you, Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert, We've been through many,
20:55
Speaker 1: many real life trials, not TV trials together. When a
21:02
Speaker 1: witness says, before they answer, is this relevant? Do I
21:06
Speaker 1: have to answer this? That tells me they know darn
21:10
Speaker 1: well what I'm talking about. Oh, they not only know,
21:13
Speaker 1: they don't want it to come out because they think
21:15
Speaker 1: it's going to be detrimental to the person they're trying
21:17
Speaker 1: to protect. And in this case it's the defendant. They
21:22
Speaker 1: keep talking about, you know, he didn't have any help.
21:25
Speaker 1: They keep mentioning that. The brother even posted a letter
21:29
Speaker 1: on social media yesterday about he never got the help
21:32
Speaker 1: he needed. He had teachers trying to help him, counselors,
21:36
Speaker 1: social workers, therapists of course, the foster parents, he had, psychiatrists,
21:42
Speaker 1: all kinds of people trying to help the whole family.
21:46
Speaker 1: So I think that's something that you know needs to
21:48
Speaker 1: be stated out loud. This was not a kid that
21:51
Speaker 1: people gave up on. This is not a kid people
21:53
Speaker 1: didn't try to help and care about. Nancy. Can I
21:56
Speaker 1: put this in context? He had something called fetal alcohol syndrome,
22:01
Speaker 1: meaning the mother drank used drugs during the pregnancy and
22:04
Speaker 1: in the first trimester. The neurons are in the baby's
22:08
Speaker 1: brain that they're not yet assigned. They're like floating around,
22:11
Speaker 1: and so when the mother drinks and uses, it's like
22:15
Speaker 1: they all go to the wrong place. It's a really
22:18
Speaker 1: simplistic way of putting it. So what you see is
22:21
Speaker 1: pervasive developmental problems throughout childhood on the Okay, can't we
22:27
Speaker 1: just pause just a minute, just a minute. I got
22:31
Speaker 1: nearly twenty dead people, children in school on the floor
22:36
Speaker 1: on Valentine's Day, shot dead. I've got a very well
22:40
Speaker 1: thought out plan from mass murder. Well, Nancy, I don't
22:45
Speaker 1: want to hear right now that daddy wasn't there and
22:51
Speaker 1: mommy didn't care. Okay, So just what I could say,
22:57
Speaker 1: I say one more thing, Please, Johnny, you tell the
23:01
Speaker 1: victim's family that, Okay, you tell him that doctor Bethany,
23:04
Speaker 1: I dare you. I dare you, well what I was
23:06
Speaker 1: going to add, Okay, you know what, get it out
23:11
Speaker 1: of your sis? I have to say, we all have
23:13
Speaker 1: choices through our life, and despite the fetal alcohol syndrome,
23:18
Speaker 1: we all have commendous neural plasticity, meaning we change and
23:21
Speaker 1: grow when we get better. And he had many opportunities
23:24
Speaker 1: to change and reform and he did not take up
23:27
Speaker 1: those opportunities. And so I think that's what stands out
23:31
Speaker 1: to me. Did you get it out? Okay? I said?
23:33
Speaker 1: It is all I want to ask. I want to
23:35
Speaker 1: ask a legal question, actually, which is you know I
23:39
Speaker 1: do expert witness work and I'm brought in for my opinion.
23:43
Speaker 1: Why is the sister who has no connection? She's a
23:47
Speaker 1: random Joe Schmo in my mind, other than profiting. Why
23:50
Speaker 1: is she even on the stand. I would love to
23:52
Speaker 1: hear input on that. I can talk about that. I
23:55
Speaker 1: can answer that. Go ahead, David Vaier. She's on the
23:58
Speaker 1: stand because this was not a guilt phase um trial.
24:03
Speaker 1: This was the sentencing phase, right, So this is basically
24:06
Speaker 1: all the mitigation and in Florida, so she's there too
24:10
Speaker 1: help powder brother. Yeah, basically got it. And this is
24:13
Speaker 1: sort of like a character with this kind of thing
24:15
Speaker 1: got to Dell Carson, high profile lawyer joining side of Jackson,
24:18
Speaker 1: a former FBI agent. I think I heard you jumping
24:21
Speaker 1: in what well? This is? This is mitigation, and it's
24:24
Speaker 1: a defense presenting all the reasons he shouldn't be put
24:28
Speaker 1: to death. Okay, thank you. Can I now say, doctor
24:32
Speaker 1: Bethany's got it out of her system? Doctor Priya has
24:35
Speaker 1: done any legal question my pathologist Delle Carson, Uh, Cheryl,
24:42
Speaker 1: anything you want to gette your system before I finally
24:43
Speaker 1: get to go to Andy Kahn. Absolutely. He made a
24:47
Speaker 1: video prior to the massacre where he said he notorious.
24:52
Speaker 1: His brother Zach visited the crime scene multiple times to
24:57
Speaker 1: the point the police had to charge him with trespassing.
25:00
Speaker 1: He wanted his brother's fame, he wanted his brother's attention,
25:06
Speaker 1: and he has figured out a way to do it
25:08
Speaker 1: on some TV reality show. But I'm gonna tell you
25:12
Speaker 1: why it's gonna fail. It's gonna fail because you take
25:15
Speaker 1: one child. Nancy, one of those fourteen victims, had parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, teachers,
25:24
Speaker 1: classmates that survived, neighbors, coaches, Sunday school teachers, scout leaders,
25:30
Speaker 1: dance and music teachers, parents of their friends, mom and
25:35
Speaker 1: dad's co workers, possibly a whole church congregation. One child
25:40
Speaker 1: represents a thousand people, and then you times that by seventeen,
25:45
Speaker 1: and then you times it again the outlier people who
25:48
Speaker 1: hear about it, and then you times it again the
25:50
Speaker 1: people that aren't affected. We didn't know anybody personally, but
25:54
Speaker 1: I'm a mama first, so I'm affected by every one
25:58
Speaker 1: of these victim Sharyl McCall, I'm a set. I think
26:00
Speaker 1: about Nicholas Cruse, the Parkland shooter, maybe once or twice
26:05
Speaker 1: a month after I dropped the children off. Well, let
26:08
Speaker 1: me just give a full confession. That doesn't count all
26:11
Speaker 1: the times I go back over there during the day.
26:14
Speaker 1: This is drive through. See everybody's see if anyone's walking
26:17
Speaker 1: around the backpack trying to open a door, someone that
26:23
Speaker 1: I've never seen before. Just I don't know what I'm
26:27
Speaker 1: looking for exactly, but whatever it is, I want to
26:31
Speaker 1: catch it. I want to see an open door that
26:35
Speaker 1: I can close on the side of the school. I
26:38
Speaker 1: really leaves me with the feeling like I don't know
26:41
Speaker 1: exactly what I'm looking for, but I have a sense
26:45
Speaker 1: of dread because of people like Nicholas Cruz that will
26:52
Speaker 1: probably never go away. Joining me right now is a
26:58
Speaker 1: long time friend, a specialist who inspired me in my
27:04
Speaker 1: first book. Objection. Andy Kahn, Director Victim's Services Advocacy, crime
27:09
Speaker 1: Stoppers Houston at Crimestoppers dot Org on Facebook, Andy Kahn
27:14
Speaker 1: and Crimestoppers of Houston insta at Andy Victim Advocate. Andy,
27:20
Speaker 1: please take a listen to our cut ten. Do you
27:25
Speaker 1: think it would be appropriate to capitalize on the murders
27:28
Speaker 1: of fourteen children and three staff members at Margarete Stone
27:33
Speaker 1: and Douglas High School by filming or creating a reality
27:37
Speaker 1: show based on being the brother of a mass murderer. Okay, ma'am,
27:42
Speaker 1: don't answer the question of sustaining the objection Old Andy
27:51
Speaker 1: jump in. You know, Nancy, I've been doing this a
27:54
Speaker 1: long time, thirty plus years. I've been monitoring the industry,
27:58
Speaker 1: which I labeled murder Billiard offering from crime by selling
28:01
Speaker 1: your personalized items. Quite frankly, this is the first I
28:06
Speaker 1: have ever seen of a reality show based on a
28:11
Speaker 1: mass murderer and school shooter. That's about stoops to the
28:15
Speaker 1: lowest level I've seen and from a victim's perspective, And
28:19
Speaker 1: I serve on the board of parents and murder children
28:22
Speaker 1: and surviving family members of homicide and have worked with
28:26
Speaker 1: homicide survivors for over thirty years. This is about as
28:29
Speaker 1: nauseating and disgusting as you can imagine when you find
28:35
Speaker 1: out the person who murdered one of your loved ones
28:38
Speaker 1: is now hawking a reality show for pure profit. This
28:42
Speaker 1: is blood, money, plain and simple shame on this family.
28:47
Speaker 1: The other issue that I really take umbrage is what
28:51
Speaker 1: kind of message are you sending out to other would
28:54
Speaker 1: be want to be copycats that are going, oh, well,
28:58
Speaker 1: if he can do this, I can get my fifteen
29:01
Speaker 1: minutes of frame, and everybody's going to be watching what
29:04
Speaker 1: I do. Nobody should care or give a bleep a
29:07
Speaker 1: bleep about what Nicholas Cruise is or any of his
29:12
Speaker 1: so called family members have to care. You want to
29:15
Speaker 1: do a reality show, do a reality show on the
29:18
Speaker 1: seventeen victims that have to live every day without their
29:22
Speaker 1: loved one. Go ahead and film them going to the
29:25
Speaker 1: grave site. Go ahead and film them with an empty table,
29:29
Speaker 1: with an empty seat at the dinner table. Time and
29:33
Speaker 1: time again, we continue to give killers, mass murderers, and
29:37
Speaker 1: school shooters like Cruise the infamy and immortality they richly
29:42
Speaker 1: don't deserve by committing some of the most horrific, despicable
29:46
Speaker 1: crimes known the mankind. This is about as low as
29:49
Speaker 1: it gets. Time stories with Nancy Grace Andy Kahn joining
30:10
Speaker 1: me out of Texas. Andy, do you remember when you
30:13
Speaker 1: and I first met? I did, oh, I'll never forget it.
30:18
Speaker 1: Brought you to my office and I said, look what
30:20
Speaker 1: I got in my duffle bag. That's exactly I was
30:23
Speaker 1: going to ask you. After we met. We were talking
30:26
Speaker 1: about Andy Kahn, create created the phrase murderabilia, the term
30:31
Speaker 1: he coined the term murderabilia, and we were talking about it,
30:35
Speaker 1: and he said, what you got to see what's in
30:37
Speaker 1: my office? I'm like, great, And I don't remember walking there,
30:41
Speaker 1: but I just remember suddenly we were we got there.
30:43
Speaker 1: Do you remember what you showed me? I probably showed
30:46
Speaker 1: you somebody's hair sample, or pieces of clothing, or a
30:51
Speaker 1: fingernail clipping from a California based serial killer would be
30:56
Speaker 1: my first gut. Could you explain everyone why you showed
31:01
Speaker 1: me a toenail? There's an industry which I discovered that
31:05
Speaker 1: was primarily being it's an offshoot of the true crime genre,
31:09
Speaker 1: and you have actual people who make a living from
31:14
Speaker 1: procuring items from high profile killers, serial killers, mass murders,
31:19
Speaker 1: and school shooters. So they solicit items like letters, autographs, artwork,
31:25
Speaker 1: they can get pieces of their clothing. I've got in
31:28
Speaker 1: my office five different hair samples from serial killers, including
31:33
Speaker 1: Charles manson the Air that was sold in the form
31:36
Speaker 1: of a swastika. A California serial killer named Roy Norris
31:41
Speaker 1: has his fingernail clippings for sale. His partner, Lawrence Bittaker,
31:46
Speaker 1: had his prison issued socks. And these guys were so
31:49
Speaker 1: sadistic they actually recorded their victims screams on tapes so
31:54
Speaker 1: they can relive them over again. You have seven dealers
31:58
Speaker 1: throughout the country essentially make a living from selling items
32:04
Speaker 1: from serial killers, mass murderers, and school shooters. The only
32:08
Speaker 1: item I've ever seen prior to this inane reality show
32:13
Speaker 1: that's being pedal was a few days after the Parkland
32:17
Speaker 1: school shooting, somebody was trying to sell rocks from the
32:21
Speaker 1: school that they picked up from where crews had at
32:26
Speaker 1: mowed down seventeen victims. So until then, it's been relatively
32:31
Speaker 1: silent until now. I just can't fathom what must be
32:38
Speaker 1: going through the family members realizing that they're capitalizing on
32:43
Speaker 1: the gruesome, horrific deaths of their love. I actually hope,
32:47
Speaker 1: Andy Kahan, that the family members don't know. Is it
32:51
Speaker 1: common knowledge? David Avayer joined me from the Miami Herald.
32:54
Speaker 1: Does everybody know about this? I don't think so. I
32:57
Speaker 1: think it's it's a pretty pretty minor and I don't
33:03
Speaker 1: know about that. I just hope that it hasn't been
33:05
Speaker 1: publicized to the point that, well, you know what, they're
33:07
Speaker 1: going to find out about it one way or the other.
33:10
Speaker 1: I know that I hate that they're going to find
33:11
Speaker 1: out about it ever, but they will. Guys, take a
33:17
Speaker 1: listen to more on this scheme that has given birth
33:24
Speaker 1: to a reality show relating to the park Land school
33:28
Speaker 1: shooting massacre. Are you aware that Richard Moore has sent
33:32
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars this year alone to Nicholas's cruise commissary account.
33:38
Speaker 1: I'm not aware, But how do you know it's only him?
33:42
Speaker 1: Zachary has his own money too. Just turning asked the
33:48
Speaker 1: questions and answer the questions. Okay, if you don't understand,
33:51
Speaker 1: you can say I don't understand, or can you repeat it?
33:53
Speaker 1: But you can't just fire back your off. Okay, are
34:01
Speaker 1: you aware of that? Um, you just saw me, so
34:07
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like she knows more than she's
34:10
Speaker 1: letting on. And her denials themselves speak volumes. Okay to you,
34:18
Speaker 1: del Carson. Is very easy to trace. Who sends money
34:23
Speaker 1: into a serial a mass shooters account, is it not?
34:27
Speaker 1: It's very easy to figure that out. That's not a
34:30
Speaker 1: problem at all because you're required to notify the correction
34:33
Speaker 1: facility precisely who you are and where the money's coming
34:37
Speaker 1: from to make a church not proceeds from crime or drugs.
34:41
Speaker 1: So yes, easy to do. So it's happening. The reality
34:44
Speaker 1: show as it relates to the Parkland school shooting massacre
34:48
Speaker 1: is happening here. This promo made the way. I ain't
34:58
Speaker 1: never afraid. He's going to move humanity forward. To smile
35:04
Speaker 1: alone on that warm the hardest hurts. You're hearing the
35:08
Speaker 1: music the intro to quote being Zach Cruz. This is
35:13
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cruz's brother. You know I heard the music and
35:19
Speaker 1: I hear him saying this kid can move humanity forward.
35:25
Speaker 1: What about the victims' families? What about those children that
35:28
Speaker 1: are gunned down? Take a listen to our friends at
35:31
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com Zachary Cruz was allowed to meet
35:34
Speaker 1: with his brother at the police station after the shooting.
35:37
Speaker 1: After that, Zachary was accused of becoming fascinated with his
35:40
Speaker 1: brother's so called fame. Zachary Cruz was charged with prespassing
35:44
Speaker 1: himself after being warned to stay away from the shooting site,
35:47
Speaker 1: he visited at least three times. In the police report,
35:51
Speaker 1: Zachary told police he had gone to the school to
35:53
Speaker 1: reflect on the school shooting and soak it all in.
35:56
Speaker 1: Prosecutors said, however, that Zachary had been quote heard observing
36:01
Speaker 1: how popular Nicholas's name is now and questioned whether the
36:05
Speaker 1: fame would help attract female attention. Zachary was given six
36:09
Speaker 1: months probation for trespassing. After Zachary Cruise's brush with the law,
36:13
Speaker 1: he was taken under the wing of Richard Moore More,
36:15
Speaker 1: along with his husband Mike Donovan, co founded mond servicing
36:19
Speaker 1: company Nexus. The pair reached out to help the then
36:22
Speaker 1: eighteen year old Zachary moved from Florida to Virginia to
36:25
Speaker 1: live with a couple and their son. They had never
36:28
Speaker 1: met prior to the massacre. Moore has attended some of
36:31
Speaker 1: the trial. He has said before that While he doesn't
36:34
Speaker 1: approve of what Cruise did, he believes that nobody should
36:37
Speaker 1: face this alone. On Monday, prosecutors told the jury that
36:40
Speaker 1: Moore had sent thousands of dollars of commissary to Cruise
36:44
Speaker 1: in prison this year alone, to David de Vayer joining
36:49
Speaker 1: us mistigate every reporter of the Miami Herald, why is
36:52
Speaker 1: this guy more funneling thousands of dollars to the Parkland shooter. Well,
36:58
Speaker 1: that's a question that we would love to have heard.
37:01
Speaker 1: He was supposed to testify as part of this trial,
37:05
Speaker 1: when it turns out that defense ended up resting early.
37:09
Speaker 1: So they Yeah, we really don't know other than he
37:12
Speaker 1: sort of seems to kind of like the limelight. I mean,
37:15
Speaker 1: you've been on the media a lot, He's been on
37:16
Speaker 1: local TV. He's sort of interjected himself into this whole thing,
37:20
Speaker 1: taking care of Zachary Cruz, the brother. Um, so yeah,
37:24
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a weird dynamic. And you know,
37:27
Speaker 1: you keep way behind the reality show. Yeah, he's the producer,
37:31
Speaker 1: and yeah, it would seem so okay, well will you
37:33
Speaker 1: make that Cheryl McCall, Yeah, I gotta jump in, Nancy.
37:36
Speaker 1: It's like he won't fame by proxy. So to me, again,
37:41
Speaker 1: this show will fail. And I'm going to take an
37:43
Speaker 1: opposite position of you. I believe the families absolutely need
37:48
Speaker 1: to know about it because they need to make anybody
37:51
Speaker 1: that is a potential sponsor of this show to know
37:54
Speaker 1: that there's gonna be repercussions if you get involved with
37:57
Speaker 1: this guy and you support this show in any way
38:00
Speaker 1: that they well, you're right. They need to be sure.
38:03
Speaker 1: Boycotted what I said that. I mean, I hate for
38:06
Speaker 1: them to hear them. I get you because I know
38:08
Speaker 1: it's going to amen. Amen, But do they need to
38:10
Speaker 1: know you're absolutely right, Andy Kahn. So these guys, this
38:16
Speaker 1: this couple, they glow'm on to Nicholas Cruz's brother Zachary,
38:23
Speaker 1: who is obsessed with the Parkland shooting. They are trespassing
38:28
Speaker 1: conviction for because he wouldn't stay away from the scene.
38:32
Speaker 1: They take him, they move him in with them. They
38:35
Speaker 1: funnel thousands of dollars into the shooter's prison account, and
38:40
Speaker 1: now they're creating a reality show as it relates to
38:44
Speaker 1: the park Land shooting. Help me, Andy Kahn. First thing
38:48
Speaker 1: Florida Department of Corrections needs to do. In like all prisons,
38:53
Speaker 1: there's prison rules that stipulates you can't operate a business
38:56
Speaker 1: unless you have approval of the prisons, and there's no
38:59
Speaker 1: way in hell prison officials are going to allow this
39:02
Speaker 1: to be on the approved level, so they need to
39:04
Speaker 1: seize any moneys from his commissary account ill gotten proceeds
39:09
Speaker 1: from this. This is just the beginning of the merchandising
39:14
Speaker 1: and marketing of Nicholas Crews, and they're going to come
39:17
Speaker 1: out of the woodwork, especially wherever he ends up, and
39:20
Speaker 1: if he does end up on death row, all the
39:23
Speaker 1: vultures are going to be reaching out to him. So
39:25
Speaker 1: Florida needs to be prepared for an onslaught of people
39:30
Speaker 1: trying to get Nicholas Crews to send them items out
39:34
Speaker 1: there to be sold for profit. But this is something
39:38
Speaker 1: that they need to get a handle on now because
39:41
Speaker 1: it's coming and this is just the first wave of
39:44
Speaker 1: it right here. I am not surprised because the true
39:47
Speaker 1: crime genre has exploded, and Cheryl McCullum was spot on
39:53
Speaker 1: the victims families. Either they are aware of it or
39:56
Speaker 1: they will be made aware of it because most victims
39:59
Speaker 1: family will actually have a Google alert on the offender,
40:04
Speaker 1: so they get notified of any proceedings and news. So
40:08
Speaker 1: it's best that they get a prize of what's happening
40:11
Speaker 1: now as opposed to being being shocked when they get
40:15
Speaker 1: a camera put right in front of their face. You're
40:17
Speaker 1: both right, You're both right. I guess as a crime
40:19
Speaker 1: victim myself, I know how much it would hurt me
40:22
Speaker 1: to find out a reality show had been concocted of
40:28
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder shortly before our wedding, and I just
40:32
Speaker 1: hate for them to go through any more heartbreak. But
40:34
Speaker 1: you and Cheryl are absolutely right. Andy completely Florida law.
40:39
Speaker 1: There's a Florida law that prevents people from profiting when
40:42
Speaker 1: they're in custody and convicted to something. Oh well, Dale Carson,
40:46
Speaker 1: you know you're as smart as lawyers. I know they're
40:49
Speaker 1: going to say, this isn't about park Land. This is
40:51
Speaker 1: about Nicholas Cruz's brother. And of course, to you, Andy
40:55
Speaker 1: Kahn went better way to get the cooperation of Nicholas Cruz,
40:59
Speaker 1: the park killer, than to funnel him thousands of dollars
41:04
Speaker 1: and have his brother, his blood brother, his bio brother
41:09
Speaker 1: under their roof. Nicholas Cruz is the name that draws
41:14
Speaker 1: people in period, and so you've got to remove him
41:18
Speaker 1: from the equation. You've got to totally eliminate his name
41:23
Speaker 1: from getting out there. And I think that's one good
41:26
Speaker 1: thing that the media has done lately is by refusing
41:30
Speaker 1: to name mass murderers and school shooters, and that's something
41:34
Speaker 1: Florida officials need to do. A sap David Avay A
41:37
Speaker 1: Miami Harold, Where does the trial stand right now? So
41:41
Speaker 1: where the trial stands now is as the state is
41:44
Speaker 1: ready to embark on its rebuttal case, the defense is
41:47
Speaker 1: actually asked the judge to recuse ourselves, and the reason
41:51
Speaker 1: being is that when they announced that they were deciding
41:57
Speaker 1: to rest their case, the judge got into a really
42:00
Speaker 1: tept the little argument with the defense, the main defense lawyer,
42:04
Speaker 1: and they kind of got into it. And so now
42:05
Speaker 1: they're saying, because she was very critical of their decision
42:09
Speaker 1: to rest, that she is not fair and that they
42:14
Speaker 1: don't think they can get an impartial judge on the
42:16
Speaker 1: case the rest of the case goes forward. Well, that's
42:19
Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig ending a little early.
42:22
Speaker 1: Dave Vayer, the defense said they were calling eighty witnesses.
42:25
Speaker 1: They I believe called about forty, so they cut their
42:28
Speaker 1: case in half. We wait as justice unfalse Nancy Grace
42:35
Speaker 1: crime story signing off