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The CFL Outsiders April Off Season Bonus The great CFL/NFL Hash Out · The CFL Outsiders

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, welcome to a different portion of the CFL outsiders.
• 0:03
  This is GT of course, and this is a new thing that we decided we would start up and I wanted to do for a while and the other MJ and old man graciously allowed me to try this
• 0:14
  out.
• 0:14
  this is, we're going to call conversations with GT.
• 0:18
  And the first one is something that I've wanted to do for a long, time.
• 0:22
  And that's question someone who is an NFL fan and
• 0:28
  lives here in Canada and in this case lives here in the GTA in my neck of the woods as to why
• 0:35
  They're an NFL fan and how and their feelings about the CFL and why they're not a CFL fan.
• 0:42
  So we're to have as much of a conversation as possible over the next little bit.
• 0:47
  And hopefully we'll get some answers and feel, you know, at least give you some indications and then we'll see how goes from there.
• 0:54
  I appreciate your patience.
• 0:55
  This is the first interview for the CFL outsiders and we're hoping to do a bunch more with various people from coaches to players.
• 1:04
  you know, to other people involved around the league, not necessarily about the games each week, but more about the league in general and just football in Canada in general.
• 1:16
  so here we go.
• 1:18
  I want to introduce as our guest tonight, thank you very much, John.
• 1:21
  John and I have been buds for a while, about two years now.
• 1:25
  And when I was first introduced to John, he immediately started giving me grief about the CFL and has ever since and continues to this day.
• 1:33
  So he's not wearing his Chargers jersey today, although he threatened to, so we'll take it from there.
• 1:39
  He does have some CFL connections, of course, being a Chargers fan.
• 1:42
  He knows all about Doug Flutie being there.
• 1:45
  He can recite every statistic that Dave Dickerson had while he was there and should have been the number one quarterback.
• 1:51
  But no, I'm sure he can't.
• 1:52
  But nonetheless, we'll throw that out there.
• 1:55
  And for now, let's just get into it.
• 1:58
  So John, how you doing today?
• 2:00
  I'm really good thanks and looking forward to having a chat.
• 2:04
  Great.
• 2:05
  let's just give, if we could, let's give some background and talk about, if you don't mind, let's talk about your football background.
• 2:13
  But before we even get into football, let's just talk about generally.
• 2:16
  As they do in demographic studies, John, where would, which age group would you fall into?
• 2:20
  50 to 55, 60 to 65, 65 to 70, which age group is yours to fall into?
• 2:27
  55 to 60.
• 2:30
  Okay, perfect.
• 2:30
  So that you're right in that generation a little younger than I am, but not lots.
• 2:35
  But you might fall into what I what we are officially called or unofficially called the last generation of CFL fans, which really started the degradation of the CFL fandom in the
• 2:47
  general population in Canada.
• 2:49
  So it'll be interesting to see if you have any input on that.
• 2:52
  Where did where did you grow up, John?
• 2:53
  Which area of the country did you grow up in?
• 2:56
  So I did.
• 2:57
  I grew up mostly in Southwestern Ontario.
• 3:00
  So being connected here in Ontario is really where I grew up.
• 3:05
  Okay.
• 3:05
  So was that like Kitchener area or more was more down into Tilsonburg or London?
• 3:12
  London and Woodstock was where I grew up.
• 3:14
  Yes.
• 3:15
  Okay.
• 3:16
  So what high school did you go to in and what era was that high school?
• 3:20
  When you were in high school?
• 3:22
  So I went to AB Lucas and you know,
• 3:24
  Obviously, heck, era.
• 3:27
  Back when the bills were horrible, the Detroit Lions were horrible, and I became a fan of the San Diego Chargers because of Eric Coriel.
• 3:35
  So, all right, great.
• 3:37
  So that would have been what the late 70s, early 80s?
• 3:40
  Definitely late 70s, early 80s.
• 3:41
  Okay.
• 3:43
  All right.
• 3:43
  I just want, I just wonder, because that again gives me, know, gives us some indication of, again, I think of that
• 3:49
  timeframe.
• 3:50
  Did you, did your high school have a pro football program?
• 3:53
  Did you play?
• 3:54
  We, absolutely had a football program.
• 3:55
  I started playing football in grade school, just like everybody else, just having fun with the boys.
• 4:00
  And then when I went to high school was quite excited about joining the team and being a part of the junior football team and then played senior football as well.
• 4:07
  So it's been a football fan pretty much my whole life.
• 4:11
  Nice.
• 4:12
  And what position did you play?
• 4:14
  I was a tight end.
• 4:15
  So
• 4:16
  on the line of scrimmage and going out to catch some passes and being quick was uh a good value.
• 4:22
  Nice, nice.
• 4:23
  Now, if I remember correctly, you also grew up in a family with multiple male siblings.
• 4:29
  So how many brothers do you have?
• 4:31
  Yeah, so I have four brothers and we're all right around the same age.
• 4:34
  At one point, four of us were playing football at the same high school.
• 4:38
  So it was pretty exciting.
• 4:40
  That's great.
• 4:41
  That's great.
• 4:43
  So you mentioned that you became a San Diego fan in those days and I'm sorry, who was the player again?
• 4:49
  Because I'm not familiar with them.
• 4:52
  So Eric Coriel was the coach and he really introduced quite a passing game and quite a move the players around the field kind of a standpoint.
• 5:01
  So it was Chargers.
• 5:03
  The biggest hiccup for my early days was none of it was on TV because we were
• 5:08
  before time shifting and all that sort of stuff, I had to read about it or just watch the highlights to be a fan.
• 5:14
  So.
• 5:15
  Yeah, no, that's where that's kind of where we're going to get to in a few minutes.
• 5:19
  Did you did you go to Western after high school or did you go to a different university?
• 5:25
  No, I didn't didn't play football after high school.
• 5:28
  It was my career was pretty much in high school, played, played flag and for a few Pee Wee teams outside of school, but nothing serious.
• 5:37
  But did you attend university at Western or at another school?
• 5:42
  didn't go to university.
• 5:44
  Okay, just because I was interested whether you watched their program and got involved with their program in any way.
• 5:49
  no.
• 5:52
  Okay, cool.
• 5:54
  So at that time, one of the things, reasons that we call that, if you're not aware, part of the reason that the CFL calls that the last generation is something that you just
• 6:02
  mentioned, which was blackouts.
• 6:03
  There was, that was a large portion of that.
• 6:06
  Local blackouts in Toronto and any of the cities across country, if there was a game in town, it wasn't allowed to be on TV.
• 6:14
  And that, they said, a lot of people attribute to those, that to being a whole generation of people that didn't get to watch the games and missed that in the 80s and early 90s
• 6:25
  before they moved away from that scenario.
• 6:27
  So I wondered if that impacted you.
• 6:29
  in London, wouldn't have impacted you.
• 6:31
  would have been able to see all the games.
• 6:33
  So did you watch CFL at all in those days when it was on CFL or CTV and CBC?
• 6:39
  I never really got even exposed to the CFL until I had graduated from high school and as an adult.
• 6:47
  And that's where a bit of a connection came with the option of watching some CFL.
• 6:52
  So no, I was always NFL influenced.
• 6:56
  Okay.
• 6:56
  So that's cool.
• 6:57
  But you played three down football in high school.
• 7:00
  You play or did your school play four down?
• 7:03
  No, we played three down.
• 7:04
  You played three down.
• 7:05
  So you were you were familiar with the game, just not familiar with watching the teams, etc, etc.
• 7:11
  All right.
• 7:12
  OK, so then so that kind of answers those questions.
• 7:17
  So what what drove the decision to become an NFL fan versus a CFL fan?
• 7:23
  Was it strictly?
• 7:24
  because you liked the Jersey, was it you like that particular coach or was it just something else?
• 7:30
  No, a hundred percent.
• 7:31
  My, my drive to the, NFL, I, I was a very big fan originally, you know, of just watching NFL football in general.
• 7:40
  so back in the cowboy era with, um, Terry Bradshaw and you know, Roger Starbuck, and Terry Bradshaw with Pittsburgh, that's when my, my
• 7:51
  connection with football began.
• 7:53
  So it was quite early in my childhood when I started really to engage in the game of football and watching it and enjoying it on TV.
• 8:01
  And obviously there was much more options with the NFL on TV than the CFL.
• 8:08
  The structure of Sunday games only.
• 8:10
  Yeah, the multiple, the different games on the, the sheer number of teams makes four more games.
• 8:17
  Right.
• 8:18
  So, okay, that's great.
• 8:20
  Thank you.
• 8:20
  So have you ever attended an NFL game or have you been to lots of NFL games?
• 8:26
  I have been to many NFL games and mostly to see my Chargers play in different parts of the world and different parts of the thing.
• 8:35
  We've even traveled to a Super Bowl.
• 8:37
  We haven't had a ticket to a Super Bowl, but we've traveled just to experience some of the excitement of being around a Super Bowl.
• 8:44
  Have you ever, have you ever attended any CFL games?
• 8:48
  Yes, absolutely.
• 8:49
  So as an adult, you know, I had some good connections and attended a lot of Argo games and been actually to a gray cup, but not to a Superbowl.
• 8:59
  Which, which gray cup?
• 9:01
  Um, so was the one held here, in Toronto, Dickens.
• 9:05
  Like, I'm not even sure I can remember who played or how long ago it was, but it was here in Toronto and it was quite exciting.
• 9:11
  So, okay.
• 9:12
  So yeah, uh there's been a few, which stadium was it at?
• 9:16
  out curiosity.
• 9:17
  It was at the Sky Dome.
• 9:18
  Okay.
• 9:19
  Might've been 2012.
• 9:20
  Might've been the 100th Great Cup.
• 9:22
  Yeah, I think it was.
• 9:23
  I think it was.
• 9:24
  Yeah, there was a lot that was generated.
• 9:26
  They generated a lot of excitement.
• 9:28
  So yeah, I was there too.
• 9:30
  All right, so sorry, I'm glancing down only because I have this piece of paper with a bunch of questions that I wanted asked.
• 9:35
  So don't forgive me for doing that.
• 9:38
  So let me throw something at you.
• 9:40
  How would you describe your feelings generally about the CFL?
• 9:44
  I'm gonna give you some words and I would ask you to pick two of the five words that I'm gonna give you.
• 9:51
  Just how would you describe your feelings about the CFL in general?
• 9:54
  So the words are disdain,
• 9:57
  ignorance, awareness, tolerate, enthusiastic.
• 10:02
  Wow.
• 10:03
  I'm not even sure any of those words truly apply.
• 10:07
  know, tolerant makes it sound like, you know, I don't actually like it, but I don't really follow it enough and have enough engagement in the sport to even have such a deep feeling
• 10:18
  for it.
• 10:18
  You know, the game itself is very different than the NFL and there's lots of things.
• 10:23
  about the differences between the two sports that I can understand that I like or dislike of it.
• 10:28
  But I don't think it's a dislike or a tolerance.
• 10:34
  It's more of a I could take it or leave it.
• 10:37
  doesn't matter.
• 10:38
  It's it's not a big influence in my life to be involved in what's happening or not happening.
• 10:44
  Alrighty.
• 10:44
  What other, what other sports do you regularly watch?
• 10:47
  Do you watch hockey or do you watch baseball or what else do you watch?
• 10:51
  Um, no.
• 10:52
  So from a, a being engaged standpoint, any other sport it's just because of their, their big activities.
• 11:00
  Like with golf, I'm only interested in some of their majors or potentially the Canadian open when it's here.
• 11:07
  When it comes to car racing, I'm only really interested in some of the races.
• 11:12
  that are more exciting than some of the others.
• 11:14
  Baseball, I just followed the Jays because we live here in Toronto.
• 11:19
  I wouldn't call myself a baseball fan at all.
• 11:21
  I love March Madness and college basketball.
• 11:25
  I really enjoy college football as well.
• 11:27
  So to me, any other sport that I'm watching, I'm not as engaged in as I am in the NF.
• 11:35
  Yeah.
• 11:35
  And that's sort of how I am too.
• 11:37
  I watch basketball, but I don't, and I'm a Raptors fan, but I don't necessarily watch every game because I know that half the time it's just too much.
• 11:47
  I have enough on my schedule with just football in the fall, and through the summer and winter.
• 11:53
  So yeah, okay, just great.
• 11:55
  I just wondered if there was something else, if there was another sport that you followed and how that might impact your viewing and stuff.
• 12:02
  All right, so then just because we talked about
• 12:05
  You have been to a couple of games.
• 12:08
  You're aware of the league.
• 12:09
  You played three down football.
• 12:11
  So I'm going to throw a few more words on you, just about that I'd like you to pick again.
• 12:17
  How would you describe your knowledge of the CFL game and slash rules?
• 12:23
  Would it be 0 %?
• 12:24
  Would it be limited?
• 12:26
  Would it be you're aware?
• 12:28
  Would it be you're knowledgeable?
• 12:30
  Or would you say you have in-depth knowledge?
• 12:34
  Which level do think?
• 12:35
  I would certainly say I'm aware of the rules and how things work in the CFL and certainly understand the wider field, the bigger end zones and the longer field itself in general as
• 12:47
  well.
• 12:47
  yeah, and all the rules, even the Rouge.
• 12:51
  So I think you've been, so here we go.
• 12:53
  I, know, after already we're what 20 minutes into this conversation, not even quite 15 minutes.
• 12:58
  And I'm already feeling like you've been, you've been giving me the gears for the last two years for no apparent reason other than just to give me the gears.
• 13:05
  because you obviously know much more about this league that you've led me on to believe.
• 13:11
  So it'll change the conversation slightly.
• 13:14
  It may be less antagonistic from both of our points of view, but nonetheless, hopefully we'll keep it as ongoing and as fun as possible.
• 13:21
  So just going back to the rules then, there are rules, obviously differences, and you're aware of them.
• 13:27
  So what rules...
• 13:29
  What rules do you prefer in the NFL versus the CFL?
• 13:33
  Which distinct rules do you prefer more NFL wise than CFL wise?
• 13:39
  the two biggest ones that stand out for me that I really like about the NFL is the four downs.
• 13:47
  I much prefer to see a sustained drive and the options of having a couple of different plays at different points of the drive instead of just having to
• 13:57
  Go for 10 yards, not make it and then go back and sit down because the guy's going to kick.
• 14:02
  So, sustained drives and the four downs really makes a big difference for me and I certainly enjoy it.
• 14:08
  And I also very much feel that the Rouge was the most silly thing and known to mankind.
• 14:14
  I get it that your goal posts are at the beginning of the end zone and you want to give the player the option to run it out or the defense to keep them in the end zone to get an
• 14:23
  extra point.
• 14:23
  But I think it's ridiculous that you can get a point because you missed a field.
• 14:27
  All right, so you feel that you're in the camp of it rewards failure, basically.
• 14:32
  100 %
• 14:33
  So, so what, okay, so then what rules would you, what rules do you prefer in the CFL versus the NFL?
• 14:40
  Are there any?
• 14:43
  The movement before the ball doesn't scare me.
• 14:46
  It doesn't bother me that there's, you know, five guys running around in the backfield trying to trick the defense.
• 14:52
  But that might be the only.
• 14:53
  Okay.
• 14:55
  So, so you, you're, you're more comfortable with a fair catch.
• 14:59
  which I happen to believe is the dumbest rule in football ever invented.
• 15:04
  Where you feel about the rouge, I feel about the fair catch.
• 15:08
  Often, I just, think I don't understand it.
• 15:10
  I don't understand, it makes no sense to me.
• 15:12
  And I think it's the dumbest thing you could ever do is you're taken away.
• 15:16
  So why don't you go stand on the 401 where there's three, you know,
• 15:22
  Transport trucks coming at you and see if you're gonna move or not like when these guys are running down the field to clobber the guy that's looking up in the air at the ball and
• 15:30
  you can't see him coming and You have absolutely no idea how close they are or how close they aren't if you feel that your life is in danger A fair catch makes all the sense in
• 15:41
  the world Yeah, well in I just think there's other ways to mitigate that and I think that
• 15:47
  I think the CFL personally, think the CFL has done that.
• 15:51
  With a five yard rule.
• 15:53
  Yeah.
• 15:53
  With a fiver So these guys are running down the field at full speed and need to slow down to give the guy five yards so that he can make a move before they have a chance to react.
• 16:04
  I just don't think that makes any sense.
• 16:06
  And obviously a fair catch is better than letting the ball potentially land and continue down the field to give the kicker
• 16:14
  more of an opportunity to kick it further, even though he can't kick it that far because it just rolled farther.
• 16:19
  So fine, I get it, but I don't agree.
• 16:23
  Yeah.
• 16:23
  And I, and I'm the opposite because I, sorry, that's, there we go.
• 16:27
  We'll agree to disagree because that to me is just, it's ludicrous.
• 16:31
  takes away the entire special teams portion of the game, which is a third of the game.
• 16:36
  So that, that, so I, I don't want to, I've never understood that one and I, and you'll never convince me otherwise.
• 16:42
  So vice versa.
• 16:44
  So on the Rouge on the other hand, as it is, you know, while I understand, I understand there's a lot of people including yourself that don't like the Rouge and consider it a
• 16:53
  point for failure.
• 16:54
  It's not necessarily a point for failure.
• 16:56
  And I don't think the the goalposts at the front of the end zone versus at the back of the end zone.
• 17:02
  I don't think that that makes a difference in that, in...
• 17:07
  Other than in wide, but it doesn't make a difference in law in length because if you're going to be short in a a now in a goalpost at the back of the end zone, you're still going
• 17:18
  to have the opportunity to run it out.
• 17:19
  So that's going to still be there.
• 17:21
  But if you if you miss it wide, you're and you're you're still have that.
• 17:25
  So I just but but.
• 17:28
  But then, but then the Rouge takes on a whole different concept because you can punt it into the end zone.
• 17:33
  And if the player decides not to run it out, there's nothing wrong with having a penalty to take advantage of a placement of where you're going to be if you decide not to run it
• 17:43
  out.
• 17:43
  So it's, the same thing the NFL is trying to do with their kickoff.
• 17:47
  So I follow what you're coming.
• 17:49
  Yeah.
• 17:49
  And the penalty is you give up the single point.
• 17:51
  That's the penalty.
• 17:53
  if you decide not to give it out.
• 17:54
  you that and so it's a it's a strategy.
• 17:57
  It's not a failure.
• 17:58
  It's strategy.
• 18:01
  So that's how I view it.
• 18:04
  And it's not at all.
• 18:05
  It's not at all a strategy because you can miss a field goal at the front of the end zone.
• 18:10
  And they can decide not to bring it out.
• 18:12
  But at the back of the end zone, if you miss it, it might go out of play and they're still going to get it where you missed it from from the spot where you kicked it from.
• 18:19
  So it's
• 18:20
  It's completely different, but let's again agree to disagree.
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:24
  And I know.
• 18:25
  I, and on that point, I absolutely agree with you.
• 18:28
  And I've said this for years that a ruse should only be awarded if the ball is within the, within the end zone.
• 18:33
  And then it becomes a strategy.
• 18:35
  If you kick it straight through the end zone in the air, then it should not be a point.
• 18:39
  And I believe that's sort of the rule that we're going to move to.
• 18:43
  Well, and that is, that is the rule in the NFL.
• 18:45
  Yeah.
• 18:46
  So if you kick it through the end zone, the
• 18:49
  The team that's supposed to return it will get the ball further up the field than if you kick it in it rolls into the end zone.
• 18:55
  So there are strategies in that sense.
• 18:57
  It's just not a point.
• 18:58
  So, but, but a punt in my opinion can be treated like a kick.
• 19:03
  If the goalposts are at the back of the end.
• 19:05
  So I just mentioned a couple of things there that and I met I said they're going to be so are you aware of any of the upcoming structural changes to the CFL game?
• 19:17
  Yes, I I'm aware that they're making the field narrower They're taking out the funny 10 yards in the middle and they're making the end zone a more realistic size.
• 19:25
  So yeah Okay, so all of those things You feel are do you met does that make you?
• 19:32
  You like you would be more you will be more engaged with the CFL game or less engaged or does it interest you?
• 19:37
  It doesn't change your perception at all.
• 19:40
  I don't think it'll change my perception at all.
• 19:43
  Okay, so you don't like it doesn't to you feel like they're Americanizing for want of a better word the game and therefore it becomes more more open to NFL fans like yourself to
• 19:54
  at least to at least look in on it and see maybe I can watch this.
• 19:59
  No, I don't think they're, I don't think they're doing it to catch NFL fans.
• 20:03
  think they're doing it because the players are getting bigger and faster.
• 20:08
  And with the field being as large as it is, it gives that speed person a bit more of an advantage over someone that might be more of a power person.
• 20:18
  So making the field smaller for bigger, faster players just makes it a more competitive environment.
• 20:25
  I don't.
• 20:26
  And I think moving the goalposts to the back of the end zone makes all the sense in the world, even if they want to try and justify the Rouge.
• 20:32
  Okay, so was.
• 20:33
  So, yeah, so again, just talking about the different, you just mentioned the size of the field and the bigger physical or more physical players.
• 20:43
  So you do appreciate that then the difference in player types between the two leagues and how a player's physique can affect the different style of the two different games.
• 20:57
  Absolutely, 100%.
• 20:59
  Yes.
• 20:59
  Because some people don't, some people don't get that, that there are that, that, you know, guys that play in the NFL don't necessarily, doesn't necessarily mean they
• 21:08
  automatically can play in the CFL.
• 21:10
  They just, I've heard, often heard people make the argument that, you know, anybody can do that.
• 21:15
  Well, no, because it, because of the size of the field and the type of game it is, it does mean that certain physiques are more suited to one game versus the other.
• 21:26
  No, I think all players are getting bigger and faster, whether in the NFL or in the CFL and making the field smaller is going to make the game potentially more entertaining.
• 21:36
  I think most players in the CFL, if had the choice and had the option to play in the NFL, they probably would.
• 21:45
  know, the best athletes at the game of football are probably playing in the NFL as opposed to the CFL.
• 21:53
  Not to say that it's the farm league, not to say it's a development league, but it is where the players go when and if the option of playing in the NFL isn't available.
• 22:03
  I don't think many, many players prefer to play in the CFL over the NFL, which is why they need to have a rule to have so many Canadians on the team so that they keep those players
• 22:17
  from continuing to play football outside of the NFL.
• 22:20
  Yeah, I'm not sure that I agree with that's why they have a rule for so many Canadians.
• 22:25
  I think it's more just to protect jobs to be quite honest.
• 22:30
  and to keep the part-time job.
• 22:33
  Most of these players have another job.
• 22:35
  So it's a part-time job.
• 22:37
  Very few actually, actually now have.
• 22:39
  I think that's a misconception that that is left over from the battle days.
• 22:43
  Very few players have part-time jobs.
• 22:45
  Well, they're also
• 22:47
  playing in these days.
• 22:48
  just in both leagues, obviously in the NFL for the money, you don't need one.
• 22:52
  And in the CFL, you still need to have, you know, you still need to be occupied all year long with football to be able to perform at that level.
• 23:00
  think back in the day.
• 23:02
  That may be true.
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:03
  So I think that there's there is some that may be doing part time work in the same time.
• 23:08
  I know there is obviously a few kickers I can name that are firefighters at the same time, for instance, but
• 23:14
  But those numbers are drastically down from what they they're doing more PR work in the offseason then they are and training then they are doing actual another job type of thing
• 23:24
  so Okay, so
• 23:25
  You said you want...
• 23:26
  Okay.
• 23:27
  Do okay do play just because I touched on and I can I'm gonna add a bunch of that stuff out those posses So don't worry about it.
• 23:34
  But um, so you mentioned one of the things that you just mentioned was that uh You felt like the best athletes are in in the NFL Do you think the D how do you perceive the
• 23:45
  earnings of players in your estimation on the abilities of players?
• 23:50
  Do
• 23:52
  Do player earnings affect your perception of the league?
• 23:55
  Does that impact you?
• 23:57
  No, not at all.
• 23:59
  OK.
• 24:00
  OK, so you're not driven by the contract dollars.
• 24:03
  We understand the difference, but you're not.
• 24:06
  Right.
• 24:06
  So I am certainly not driven to watch the sport by the dollars, but I do blame a lot of the fans for paying what we pay that allows the teams to pay what they pay.
• 24:18
  And if we wanted to make a difference, we would just have to stop going to as many games or stop supporting it as much as we do.
• 24:24
  to have these ridiculous fees that they are collecting, but you know, they are athletes and they are entertaining us.
• 24:30
  Okay.
• 24:31
  No, I just, because I do know a lot of people use that as a reason that, that again, they, um, they will not watch the CFL simply because they don't feel because they don't get paid
• 24:41
  enough.
• 24:41
  Therefore they're no good type.
• 24:43
  There's, they feel there's a direct correlation to the ability of the athlete based on the, on the, on how much they're paid.
• 24:50
  And I've never agreed with that myself.
• 24:52
  Right.
• 24:52
  No, and I definitely don't think so.
• 24:55
  And, you know, the other thing that drives young athletes is the amount of money they could potentially make in a sport.
• 25:02
  you know, if you're really good at football, you might be really good at baseball or basketball as well.
• 25:08
  And I think a lot of times when those super duper athletes are considering a choice when they're in high school, they may make a choice based on what they could potentially make.
• 25:19
  how much fun they could potentially have playing the sport they're having or the risks they might go through from a health standpoint before they decide which sports to focus on
• 25:29
  when they're in their late teens or even early twenties.
• 25:32
  So.
• 25:33
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:34
  And those guys where they have, yeah, if they've got multiple sports decisions to make, yeah, they need to, yeah, definitely.
• 25:41
  But it's more about, I was talking more about just, you know,
• 25:45
  As I say, there's this perception of the money versus the ability.
• 25:48
  I've, and I often wonder about that of people's arguments.
• 25:54
  I think anybody would want to make more money if they're good at it, assuming that their job could afford to pay them more.
• 26:01
  It doesn't even matter if you're a teacher, a janitor or work at the convenience store.
• 26:06
  Every employee wants the same.
• 26:09
  Yeah.
• 26:09
  And I would never begrudge somebody going.
• 26:12
  to wanting to go to the NFL because you're making $50 million or even $6 million or whatever the minimum is nowadays.
• 26:19
  It's life changing money.
• 26:22
  wouldn't you do it?
• 26:24
  And why wouldn't you keep doing it as long as you can if you can?
• 26:27
  It's the reason that the best job in the world is the third straight quarterback holding the clipboard, right?
• 26:32
  Because you're going to play, but you're going to get paid.
• 26:34
  And even if it's only minimum, it's still pretty good coins.
• 26:37
  So you're never going to have to worry about that CTS or whatever down the road, but you do, but you're still cashing the check for how many years.
• 26:44
  However, these athletes are at a different level than the average person.
• 26:49
  So they, they have an ego that needs to be fed to not just the pocketbook.
• 26:54
  Yeah.
• 26:55
  I understand that too.
• 26:56
  And, and I'm not just, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that these guys are not great athletes because even to be considered to be a third straight quarterback holding the
• 27:03
  clipboard.
• 27:04
  you're already in the upper echelon of 1%.
• 27:06
  So absolutely.
• 27:08
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 27:10
  Have you ever followed a U sports and a U sports football?
• 27:14
  What is now University in Canada football?
• 27:17
  No.
• 27:18
  Okay, so sure.
• 27:19
  Went to a few Mustang games just because there were girls there too and it was a fun place to be, but never really followed Canadian college at all.
• 27:28
  Big in the US, love it.
• 27:29
  Been to many.
• 27:30
  U.S.
• 27:31
  college games, love the tailgating, love the whole experience of the whole weekend, not just the game itself.
• 27:37
  And so what would be, what do you think the level of player coming out of U-sports, how do you perceive that?
• 27:46
  Not necessarily versus NCAA, but just period.
• 27:50
  What do you perceive that?
• 27:51
  What's your base perception of a U-sport player?
• 27:56
  Well, they're still amazing players and are still selected out of a large pool and they aren't just getting there because they have to fill spots.
• 28:05
  They are very good athletes and play the game at a high level.
• 28:08
  Okay, good.
• 28:10
  Cool.
• 28:10
  Alrighty.
• 28:11
  Okay, so we talked about the upcoming rule changes and you said that you didn't think it would impact you necessarily in interest, you don't think it would change your interest
• 28:23
  level and make you engage more with the league.
• 28:25
  Okay, all right, so what would make you engage more?
• 28:31
  What could the CFL do, what would they need to do to have you be more engaged?
• 28:38
  Well, that's something I have never thought about.
• 28:41
  So I would certainly need a little time to think of that.
• 28:44
  For me, there's so many things about the NFL that excite me and that interests me.
• 28:49
  I'm sure they do a lot of them here in the CFL as well.
• 28:53
  I love the pools.
• 28:54
  I love the idea that there is a specific game when 90 % of the games are played so that I don't have to be guessing if it's a
• 29:03
  You know, a Tuesday, a Wednesday or a Friday when they're playing, it is very structured as to the dates.
• 29:10
  They are adding dates in the NFL, which is driving me a bit bananas because it's washing down the players rest time or ability to prepare for a game.
• 29:20
  So, you know, I'd love it if they would just play on Mondays and Sundays and then start playing on Saturdays when college football is over.
• 29:29
  Like they do the whole Thursday night game for me.
• 29:33
  Is a trouble like they never have good games.
• 29:35
  They, they seem to not be able to schedule their buy weeks properly enough that the teams on a buy should be playing on Thursday so that they have two 10 day rest periods instead
• 29:46
  of one, you know, longer rest and then a short window.
• 29:49
  So it's just bizarre to me that the NFL has decided to go for the money and play on Thursdays.
• 29:55
  Also, the CFL is all over the schedule.
• 29:58
  I never know who's playing when, you know, they don't
• 30:00
  seem to have proper East and West divisions.
• 30:03
  So when it comes to playoff times, there could be somebody from the other side moving over.
• 30:07
  They do a lot of that in hockey too.
• 30:10
  It's bizarre to me that they just don't have number one play number eight and then move on.
• 30:14
  So, um, if I told you that there was a regular every week schedule that you could follow, every like there is Friday night football is every Friday night.
• 30:27
  in the CFL, there is a game that simply there's a game every Friday night and you and the rest of the weekend you can watch or not watch.
• 30:36
  But you can watch a game every Friday night throughout the season.
• 30:40
  Yeah, I knew that I knew that so that so that doesn't but that doesn't impact you.
• 30:46
  I just mentioned it because you said you know you're now they also move to the Thursday night games which make me crazy as well.
• 30:52
  And I agree with you 100 % that it also messes with short days and makes the schedule wonky because you know, there are teams coming off four days rest or five days rest versus
• 31:02
  seven or eight days rest for some for the team that they're playing the next the next week and some as many as 10 days rest so it's really long and it can be can be quite bad And
• 31:14
  and I agree with you.
• 31:15
  That's that's not good Does the number of teams in the CFL?
• 31:18
  um impact your decision not to watch it at all?
• 31:22
  No, but it is odd to me that they try to have an East and a West instead of just having one division because there's so few teams.
• 31:29
  You know, and it used to drive me nuts that a quarter of the league was called Roughrider.
• 31:34
  Yeah, yes.
• 31:35
  But that's, again, I don't have an issue with that.
• 31:38
  I often wonder without getting into it,
• 31:42
  right now, how many people that say that what you just said, know why there's two rough riders, know why there's two divisions, know why there's why they maintain two divisions.
• 31:52
  The same reason that there's two conferences in the NFL, the same reason that they maintain two conferences, the same rather than do the same reason that they do like you
• 32:03
  mentioned, there's a team that can that moves back and forth.
• 32:07
  Well, that's just a wild card to change the name.
• 32:10
  And it's a wild card team.
• 32:12
  So we call it, you know, we call it the crossover.
• 32:15
  Every other league calls it the wild card.
• 32:17
  just call, know, you don't have a problem with the wild card, but a lot of people seem to have the same issue that it's.
• 32:25
  I don't understand that.
• 32:26
  I actually love the wild card because it allows those better teams to make it into the playoffs.
• 32:33
  What I hate is that they have to give each division in the NFL.
• 32:39
  a home game in the playoffs when they don't deserve it.
• 32:42
  I feel like the number one wild card, if they're better than the fourth division leaders should be hosting the home game and getting an advantage from doing what they've done.
• 32:53
  So the reason the NFL can have two divisions and do have the AFC and the NFC from the history of the American football league and the national football league, makes sense
• 33:03
  because of all the numbers of teams.
• 33:05
  So you do need to have people that you play regularly.
• 33:08
  Where in Canada, there's only, I'm gonna guess, I think it's nine teams, right?
• 33:12
  Like you don't need two divisions for nine teams.
• 33:15
  Yeah.
• 33:16
  Well, you do if you wanna, again, as you talked about, maintain history because until like, a lot of people don't recognize that the CFL comes from two different leagues, just
• 33:25
  like the NFL comes from the AFL and the NFL.
• 33:29
  the CFL comes from the Western Football Conference as a separate league and the Big East, for want of a better word, the Big Four as a separate league.
• 33:41
  And they were two completely separate leagues initially until 1958.
• 33:46
  So until relatively recently, it was two leagues until they officially joined to become the Canadian Football League.
• 33:55
  So that's where the two divisions come from.
• 33:57
  And then again, the national championship historically was played between the two divisions to divide, to become the national championship, not the league championship, the
• 34:06
  national championship, which is the Grey cup.
• 34:09
  And then it became the trophy for the new league.
• 34:12
  So that's where those two, and when there were two leagues, you had two teams in two separate leagues named the same thing.
• 34:21
  So that's why there are two teams named or there were two teams of same thing.
• 34:26
  Cause when they amalgamated into one league, they both kept the name.
• 34:29
  It's goofy.
• 34:30
  I agree.
• 34:31
  But that's where those two names came from because there was two separate leagues, the Canadian rugby union.
• 34:37
  And I can't remember the other one off the top of my head, but nonetheless, that's where it from.
• 34:44
  All right.
• 34:44
  I'll accept it.
• 34:46
  think the current format is broken and it should be fixed.
• 34:49
  And you're not alone and there's a lot of people in the CFL that would prefer to be one through six rather than rather than top two in each division plus the next or top three
• 34:59
  with a wild card or a crossover as we call it.
• 35:02
  Okay yeah so okay um all right so what else do we want to talk about?
• 35:07
  I was going to ask you let me see if look I'm sorry I'm looking down at my piece of paper again
• 35:12
  We've covered, know, John, I think we've covered most of the stuff that I wanted to talk about.
• 35:17
  The, I guess the question that I had to end with, and maybe we'll take a break and if we need to, we can come back and record some more.
• 35:26
  But if we, to end at this point would be after this, now that I've got you semi-engaged in at least this process.
• 35:34
  Would you be more interested in attending a game than you would have been for this process?
• 35:41
  No.
• 35:42
  No.
• 35:42
  Okay.
• 35:43
  So you would.
• 35:43
  So, so if I said, Hey, I got an extra ticket coming up with my season tickets and you would not be interested in taking that ticket and going down and exploring the game.
• 35:52
  What I'm saying is that I wouldn't be any more interested today than I was yesterday.
• 35:57
  It's all I'm saying.
• 35:58
  So yes, I enjoy, you know, any
• 36:01
  sport live and going to a game i'm certainly not gonna dismiss it because i think it's ridiculous unless of course we're talking about indoor soccer i mean indoor lacrosse but
• 36:11
  we're not so we don't need to
• 36:13
  All right, well, again, I wanna just, we'll end there for now then, and maybe I will get you down to a game with us this summer or this fall, and we can hang out and have a beer
• 36:24
  and yell at the different rules and carry on from there.
• 36:28
  So, I'm No different than if I told you I had an extra ticket to go to LA to watch the Chargers play, you would probably join me.
• 36:36
  Possibly, yeah, possibly.
• 36:38
  I would have, as I say, would have to drag out my Dave Dickinson jersey.
• 36:43
  yeah.
• 36:44
  And I would have preferred it if they were still in San Diego.
• 36:48
  But there you go.
• 36:49
  Well, and so would I, even though they originated in LA.
• 36:53
  So they were in LA before they went to San Diego.
• 36:56
  Yeah.
• 36:56
  Were they not the Gulls?
• 36:59
  No, that was the NBA team that was sent.
• 37:02
  And you'll notice I do call them my chargers as opposed to the LA Chargers because they're just the Chargers.
• 37:08
  I'm not sure I care where they play.
• 37:11
  And the biggest thing that drives me nuts about the NFL right now, I know I'm a big proponent of all of the interaction between the fans and the whole deal.
• 37:20
  I love fantasy football and I'm a commissioner of a league and I play in another.
• 37:24
  But I do believe that the
• 37:27
  Fantasy football is driving people away from loving a team to preferring to like players It's very difficult for me to have certain team players on my team because I am a big
• 37:39
  charger fan and I Can't support the Raiders or Denver or Kansas City, even if it's a great player I still don't want them So I'd rather be a fan of the game of football and the team
• 37:51
  that I support as opposed to just the players
• 37:54
  the CFL fantasy for the first time this year and I could not pick Edmonton players no matter how much I want to or needed to.
• 38:01
  They just wouldn't be there.
• 38:02
  So I get it.
• 38:04
  And I agree.
• 38:05
  I'm there to watch the game, not to watch the player necessarily, or at least not watch the player for that.
• 38:11
  But you're an avid fantasy, NFL fantasy player at the same time.
• 38:15
  Absolutely.
• 38:17
  So if there was a legitimate CFL fantasy draft,
• 38:21
  Would you be at all interested in that?
• 38:24
  Do you like the gambling aspect of the fantasy or do you like the money, like putting the 10 bucks in the pot or is it more about just the process and the game itself?
• 38:35
  Ribbing the other players and the other managers in my league more than it is anything else.
• 38:41
  Yeah, okay.
• 38:43
  It's the abuse factor.
• 38:45
  You got it.
• 38:47
  Abuse is always good as long as it's handled.
• 38:49
  And the fact that I can stay away.
• 38:52
  Yeah.
• 38:52
  if you're dishing it out, you got to be willing to take it.
• 38:55
  That's all.
• 38:56
  That's all that happens.
• 38:57
  And the other thing I'd like to say is my second favorite team in the NFL is whoever's playing Buffalo.
• 39:03
  Because when I was young, all I had to do was watch Buffalo.
• 39:06
  I didn't have time shifting and they were just a horrible team to watch.
• 39:11
  I went to my first NFL game in the Bill's Stadium.
• 39:14
  I forget which stadium it was at the time.
• 39:16
  And was just a horrible experience.
• 39:18
  The fans weren't fun.
• 39:20
  There were people doing things in the stands that they shouldn't have been doing.
• 39:23
  It's one of the only stadiums in the NFL that has a jail in it and it's there for a reason.
• 39:29
  So I am not a Bill's
• 39:31
  I never got on the Bill's bandwagon.
• 39:33
  I never got on the...
• 39:34
  as I bow whenever anybody asks me I say I'm a chiefs fan and they go oh and then I go no no I've been a chiefs fan since 1977
• 39:41
  the only thing.
• 39:44
  So, yeah, however, couldn't tell you anything other than that about the Chiefs.
• 39:49
  So there you go.
• 39:50
  All right, let's leave it there.
• 39:51
  We're gonna take a break.
• 39:53
  ah If that's it, if we don't come back.
• 39:55
  Thank you very much.
• 39:56
  I really appreciate it.
• 39:57
  And once it's posted, I'll let you know where you can find it.
• 40:00
  So at least you can see your own smile on face and you might be internet famous.
• 40:03
  Who knows?
• 40:03
  We'll talk to you.
• 40:05
  This is GT signing off on conversations with GT.
• 40:08
  And again, thanks, Sean.
• 40:09
  I appreciate it very much.
• 40:11
  Absolutely.