Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S6 E10 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen - Part 6

Transcript

S6 E10 _ Frozen Fear_ The Butcher Baker of Alaska - Robert Hansen - Part 6 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to true crime and one time. I'm Terry and
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I'm Lama. Tonight we are uncorking the truth one of
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the darkest crimes and breaking it down together with you.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: One case, one conversation, and one or maybe two glasses
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: of wine and take a job. It's time to get
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: comfortable and double check those rocks before we just started.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: So let's take a sip and dive in. Hello everybody, Hello, everybody.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Glad to see us in the same place.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: The same place, but on a different day, on the
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: same task. I meant to see you, oh.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: In the second place. We were in the places.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: That's oh, yes, that's true. We were in oppice rooms.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I love that lady. And Gray is all aboard.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: The rant train. Yes, yes she is. She's all. Yeah.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you. I told Tibody about the
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: case we're covering today. He's a retired police officer friend
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: of mine and now yes, and I told him and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: he goes, why so many shows? He goes, I know
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: there's some stuff and I said, oh, wait, wha, whoa whoa, whoa,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: whoa whoa, And then I started He goes, really, I
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, yes, I said you should go listen.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I said, it's not way am bam, thank you me.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I'm like you think I said this man started along before.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: So no, we should be vertical as well. It's showing
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: up on my end, Pam. But who knows. Streamy Ard
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: has done some weird things for us this week. So
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: but on our end of shows, that's in vertical. So
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Know, up and say vertical Hoarson.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, yeah, you know whatever.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: We're here, which we are vertical?
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: Hoson, Yes, yes, well, yes, we are here for another episode.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Aren't you all excited? I know, I am, I know,
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I am. Now you guys are before we begin. If
• 2:26
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• 2:35
  Speaker 2: because we do still have quite a few more parts
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of this series to go through on days that our
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: nights were not normally recording, So you don't want to
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: miss that.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Fed you don't want to miss it. Teresia hipee, long
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: time I started my morning with her?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Did you well.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm randomly went live this morning? Oh that's right, Lisio
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: was there with me this morning.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: Is it crazy that this morning feels like two days ago?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: No, I feel like I've lived a week in today, right.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, Norol me too, Pam
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow's I was in the wrong room. I was in
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the Thursday Night's showroom, just having a dance party. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Terry's like, oh, where are you? We're supposed to be
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: eleven five minutes. I'm like where, Oh you.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, I just said in discord. Hey, I'm getting nervous.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: She goes, why why does we go live in a
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: minute and you're not here?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Right right? I'm so pretty We've missed you, TERESI. I'm
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: so happy you're back with us as well. Missed your presence. Welcome,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: welcome back, guys.
• 3:53
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• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and God, last night, I have to tell you maybe
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: this way I woke up the way I was this morning.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I did not listen to Keith Morrison last night.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Oh that could be your man. Keith listened to us
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: put you in a good mood.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I was listening to us while I tried to sleep.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: You're listening to us.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I did. I put True Crime and Wine Time on
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: my podcast in my ear instead of oh yeah, I
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: don't know if I should listen to you. I't sleep
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: great because I was judging. I was like, that didn't
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: sound great.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Don't do that, Terry, you don't do you?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Guys should do that again?
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: No, watch every now and then just to you know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: check up on stuff, but I don't recommend it. Well, you, guys.
• 4:49
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• 4:53
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• 5:16
  Speaker 1: We do know, Lama, why don't you tell us what
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: insanity we are going to be covering tonight?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Well, oh boy, buckle up, guys, because as I've told
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: you before, each one gets worse than the one before,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: and tonight is part six of our Frozen Fear The
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: Butcher Baker of Alaska series where we are diving deep
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: into infamous serial killer Robert Hanson, his endless number of
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: victims who we refuse to be forgotten, and many of
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: that are speculated but not even known that they're speculated
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: to be victims of his, and how all of it
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: could have been stopped numerous times by the police. I
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: feel like this is infuriating. Now we believe the state
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: of Alaska has a lot of blood on their hands,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: and we are here to shine a light on all
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: of it. Now, Tonight's episode won't be as long as
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: the previous line, but there will still be lots of
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Rntson curzy words. So really, I know, all right, So
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: if you've come here for that, you're not going to
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: be disappointed. As a matter of fact, the show was
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: supposed to be last night, but then Terry read it
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: and she was like, well, we're gonna have to move
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: it to Wednesday because I said got things to say.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I can't, No, I can't, gotta save
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: for tonight.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: So well, what are you drinking tonight, Terry.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Well, because we are still in Alaska, wine just won't do.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: But I decided I didn't want to do another martini,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: so I am going this used to be my drink
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: back in the day.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: But gautonic, Oh look at you, just.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Because you still have to watch calories. But yeah, just
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: good old clean vodka tonic.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: You are you're from Boston, spatty, so you're a curzy
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: word fan. Yeah, hey, I think that I'm from the
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: East Coast. I curse like a sailor. In case you
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: guys hadn't picked up on I really know, a shock
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: to nobody, shocked to nobody. Well tonight, I'm still drinking
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: my Zvetta vodka from Monday. I bought a bottle to
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: get us through the rest of Hanson because I was like, oh,
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I either my bank account will appreciate it, because it
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: was like either I buy eight more bottles of wine
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: or I just buy a bottle of vodka. And again
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: this case, mhmm, it's something so But if you've never
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: had Speta vodka where they're not a sponsor, but if
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: you would like to be Spda vodka, please let us know.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: It's actually very clean and honestly don't even taste it,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: which is probably dangerous because it goes down very smooth
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: and I'm a heavy part.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: It's a potato vodka.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm not all vodkas like that though.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I know, but Tito's is the same way. It's not
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: a potato vodka. I can drink it straight. I can
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: drink it just on ice. I can't set it too.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I probably like kettle one. Yeah, no, there's none of that.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: It's just it's delicious. And of course I paired it
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: with my simply peach juice, which I'll probably run out
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: of tonight, so who knows, maybe maybe tomorrow night I'll
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: have some have it with some vates because I'm healthy.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: What's the vate splash?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: It's like the juice V eights but it's no, no,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: it's like a fruit version of V eight's. Okay, so
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: it's not the no though. I mean a bloody Mary
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: is amazing.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: So you know, before we get started, I have to
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: tell you that I learned something last night at my
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: county meeting, and I told my assistant chief that I
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: had to tell the fame is Lama for Lama learns.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Oh what's that?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Did you know that sand dollars are living creatures? No,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: they are not a rock or stone. It is a
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: living organism.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: What I no, I don't think I knew that.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I didn't either, because she had some on her desk
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: that are whole, and I'm like, oh my god, you
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: got lucky and found them. She goes, I did, right
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: outside are l like house. She goes, but I throw
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: back the ones that are still alive, and I went,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: are you trying to prank me?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know what I thought sand dollars were to be.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: You need to add it to the list because I
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: just did a little bit of research. It's fascinating. They
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: even have a bottle.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: What all right? I don't I haven't picked my topic
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: for Lama learns about on Friday. But sand dollars, you
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: hit it too.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: But so I told the county assistant chief about you.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Well thanks, thanks? All right, Well, you know with that
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: sand dollar Buttholes. Let's get into the story of tonight's
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: case now, before we dive into the dark waters of Seaward,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: because that's where we'll be tonight in Alaska. Let's look
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: back at how we arrived here in our investigation of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: the Silent Decade of the nineteen seventies. Just a brief
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: recap for anybody who might have forgotten or hasn't gotten
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: to watch the last few episodes. We're going to give
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: you just a brief ketchup of how we got here.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: First thing I am going to say on this brief
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: ketchup ketchup is that Alaska police failed. Okay, But we
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: began by unmasking the duality of Robert Hansen, the mild
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: manner baker who hid a predator's heart behind a mask
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: of stuttering and family oriented normalcy. We traced his descent
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: from the nineteen seventy one kidnapping attempts on Susan Hepberd
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: and Patty Roberts, where the patterns of his violence first crystallized. Guys,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: we stood in the freezing silence of February nineteen seventy two,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: questioning whether the death of Shirley Ann Jonas in a
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: desolate truck yard was the first true signature of the
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: man who had come to be known as the butcher Baker.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Then we waded through the murky waters of the Zz
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Mason investigation, and we saw how the Alaska State troopers,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: blinded by the vicious reputation of Gary Zeiger, fixated on
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: an impulsive theory of a gravel pit murder. It was
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: very infuriating. We watched as the defense shattered that timeline
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: with the testimony of Patricia Bellamick and Alan McClure, who
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: saw Zizia alive hours after the state claimed she was dead.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: And the Zaiger trial ended in an acquittal. But for
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Robert Hanson it was maybe a masterclass in how to
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: disappear if he was in fact responsible for those murders.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: He learned that the police were prone to tunnel vision.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: They were looking for monsters who look like hoods and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: not men who look like pillars of the community. Oh God,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: it's so infuriating.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: You really need to go back. The trials in left
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: the authorities with the hunting void. They had a killer
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: who had walked free and a series of cold cases
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: that would remain unsolved for decades.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Now, meanwhile, Hansoon was emboldened. He traded in his role
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: as a roadside predator for the tactical flexibility of a
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: boat owner. So we're going from land to sea.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well, the legal aftermath of nineteen seventy two
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: saw Robert Hansen transition from a temporary resident of a
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: halfway house to a fully paroled man and by July
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, Robert Hanson had mastered the art of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: being salvageable. To the officers at the halfway House and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: his parole officer, he wasn't a predator for some reason.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Don't understand why, but that just fits with everything in
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: the storyline. To them, he was just a baker, a
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: family man, and an outdoorsman. His obsession with bow hunting, fishing,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: and boating was seen as a healthy Alaskan outlet for
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: his energy.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Most of the time, I would say that's a good
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: outlet for normal people. Okay. That Fourth of July holiday weekend,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Handsome requested permission to take his boat to Seaward, a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: picturesque port town on the Kenaia Peninsula. He was granted
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that permission, apparently because he went alone, a detail that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: in hindsight is chilling. He told his prole officer that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Darla hated the boat and suffered from sea sickness. No,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: she suffered from you, providing a perfectly reasonable domestic excuse
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: for a solitary excursion. While the normal Robert Hansom was
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: supposedly fishing the waters of Resurrection Bay, a shadow was
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: falling over a young woman in the same area. I'm sorry, guys,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I'm irritated that they told him he could go right.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: It's so gorgeous though, these pictures.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: God, they are, but they let him go.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: He's m yep yep now. The portrait of seventeen year
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: old Megan Imrik is that of a quintessicial quentin Central
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Alaskan daughter born and raised in the rugged interior of
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Delta Junction. She wasn't a fragile city girl. She was
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: a young woman of the Yukon, as comfortable with a
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: hunting rival and a fishing rod as she was with
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: a motorcycle or listening to rock music.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: When she moved to Seaward to attend the Seaward Skills Center,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: she brought that independent spirit with her. The Seaward Skills
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Center was a micro cousin of Alaska, a place where
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: kids from remote villages and small towns like Delta Junction
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: came to build a future. Despite being part of the
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Seaward community, was unfenced and bled directly into the Alaskan rainforest.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: From the woods, someone could observe the dorm windows and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: vanish back into the timber without ever crossing a main road.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that scares me. I mean, I got that picture
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: of the town. I don't know how I act like
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: if I don't know the year this picture is in
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Casmi's not here with us tonight. But look, I mean,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: the forest is so thick in Alaska. I don't even
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: know if I can comprehend how.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But if you've booked that back part right there that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: backs up to the woods, that is scary because you
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: could reach in, perhaps just now.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: On July seventh, the tail end of Independence Day weekend,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: the campus was likely quiet. Many students would have been
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: out in the town or at the harbor celebrating, leaving
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the dormitory hallways ex going and very isolated. I mean,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: they have to go outside as much as they can.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: It is sunny right, and there's not ten feet of snow.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: They gotta go out right. Don't fault them for that.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Inside the girl's dormitory, the air was thick with the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: scent of laundry detergent and the rhythmic sound of the dryer,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: two things I hate. As Macon was finishing her last
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: load of laundry, she folded her clothes and then stepped
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: out of the laundry room. At the end of the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: quiet hallway.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Now she walked towards the exit, her long brown hair
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: swaying and her freckled face set with the independence of
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: a girl raised in Delta Junction. She stepped out into
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the warm July air, likely intending only a brief moment
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: away from her room. She had left her id, her money,
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: and every scrap of her life sitting on her bed,
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: but she never made it back to pick them up.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: For three days, her room remained a ghost of her presence,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: her laundry set undisturbed, her bed remained unmade. Her roommate,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: most likely caught in the hopeful denial of youth, searched
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the small town, checking the docks, the hangouts, but was
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: waiting for Megan to walk back through the door with
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: an adventurous story to tell, because what could happen there? Right? Yeah,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And I mean it's the seventies, so somebody like not
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: being around for like, you can't just call people. Yeah,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: so you're not going to panic right away. Probably. Also,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: it's a holiday weekend, so you know, you don't know,
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: and it's.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Kind of like college, you know, it's they're away from home.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: Probably the first time you don't have the appearance, you
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: get to go.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like a high school, but like college,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: one of those places. So yeah, you know, very independent kids,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: if you will. So now, by the time the Seward
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Police were notified on July tenth, oh yeah, she did
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: wait a little too long. But also she's young, she's seventeen, seventeen,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: but we can't expect her to know what to do.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And in the seventies when.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Like, who would have thought if a person went, oh,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: she must have met some guy at the celebration she's
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: off having I mean, who would have thought.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, there's a lot of recycle. So the Seward
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Police were notified on July tenth, and the trail was
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: not just cold, it was basically non existent. At that point,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: the Independence Day crowds had dispersed, the tides of the
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: bay had swept the shores clean, and Robert Hanson had
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: already checked back in with his parole officer and anchorage,
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a model convict returning from a peace useful holiday of fishing.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: The fact that Megan vanished from a laundry room inside
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a building suggests one of two possibilities. One it was
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: either someone she recognized or someone who seemed unremarkably harmless,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: luring her from the building to a nearby vehicle or
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: the woods. Perhaps a predator used the open layout of
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the campus to enter the building, stalking the quiet area
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: of the dorm, like maybe hanging out near the end
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: of the hallway laundry room, where a struggle would go unheard.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: And remember too, you know that it's right up against
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: the woods, all right. Hanson's a hunter. You know what
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: you do with hunting. You sit and you'll wait in
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: the woods for a long time. You're a very patient person,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and you know.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: How to walk quietly not to disturb I mean.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: And he was known for ruses, if you will. Now,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: if Robert Hansen had encountered Megan, he could speak her language,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: the language of hunting and fishing and Alaska bush life
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: that made up most of her life. He was a
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: champion archer and a boat owner. To a girl from
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Delta Junction, a man asking for help with a boat
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: or talking about a fishing spot wouldn't trigger the stranger
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: danger response that a city predator might. You know, she oh, gosh,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think actually.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: From Delta Junction, which was a very small place.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think I included in here. Maybe
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: not well maybe I didn't want bring up later if not.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: But she was raised with brothers, so she was very
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: you know, a tomboy ish. She could hold her own,
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you know, very go hunting fish and very independent. That like,
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I don't I want to say she she was naives.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: She was raised in a rural community. You do not
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: teach people in those rural communities in small towns to
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: fear the stranger danger of a city.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Right, And he could have brought up anything, and that
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: would have you know, that wouldn't have been weird to her.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: She would have went well, I don't know if she
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: would have went, but the odds are.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't have been immediately, right, right. Yeah, So Chief
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Tom Klement's and the Seawalled Sea Word Police performed the
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: standard due diligence at the time, which left a lot
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: to be desired. I'm going to just say that now,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: their standard due diligence ain't good. Okay. One thing they
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: did do they did a lot of polygraph tests. Was
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: several of Meghan's acquaintance.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Have counted how many polygraph tests they.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, they just give up polygraph tests for you
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: check they're possessed. Yeah, they're obsessed, I mean, but it
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: was the times. But these individuals passed, so that effectively
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: cleared the inner circle. But without a body, a struggle,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: or a witness to an abduction, the police had no
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: evidence to support foul play. They suspected it, but without
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: a body, the Silent decade claimed another victim.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Now, if Hanson took Megan on his boat, he had
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: the entire Resurrection Day as his disposal sites. In nineteen
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: seventy three, things like sonar and underwater recovery were very primitive,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: and a body waited and dropped and the deep cold
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: currents of the Gulf of Alaska would stay there forever.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe Hanson had learned the lesson of the South Side
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: slayings that gravel pits leave tracks, but the ocean does not.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: It does not. Today. The only evidence that Megan Emerick
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: ever walked the halls of the Seaward Skills Center are
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a few faded flyers and microfilmed blurbs, which just shatters
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: my heart. Guys, After their mother's passing in nineteen ninety six,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Macon's two brothers were left dealing with the hollow certainty
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: of their sister's death, but none of the why or how.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Over thirty three years, no answers before her mother passed,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: and it's so heartbreaking it's now. By November nineteen seventy three,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Robert Hansen was officially free from the Halfway House and
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: on parole. His assault with a deadly weapons charge from
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Susan Hepbard seemingly behind him and to the authorities, he
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: had faded into the background and was just another hard
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: working baker and family man in Anchorage.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: But the silence that followed him was deceptive. Okay, decades later,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the ghost of Seaward would resurface, pointing to the possibility
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: that that model convict had left a trail of bodies
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: in the very waters he claimed to be peacefully fishing. Guys,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just say this man does not do
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: anything peacefully, he says, not what he's looking for.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: No, no, now, I will I will say this because
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: Seaward is quite a distance from Anchorage. We don't have
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a map on this one. But it's quite right, No
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: I know. But oh yeah, no, I totally think he's.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I thought you're going to start giving him some.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: No, not him, No, not him. The local lawn forceman
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: they wouldn't even know who he is. He wouldn't have
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: been on their radar or anything.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: We have bolos. We didn't have a computer system right
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: roll off, thester would have had to pick up the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: phone and call.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So in the day in Seaward, Alaska, get a
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: little bit of a pass on the Robert Hanson card
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: because he left. They could have been better investigator probably, Okay,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: but we're not talking to Anchorage, where people literally it
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: was like picture this guy definitely did it, not so
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: much in C word, but listen, Megan.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Teresa, I'm just sorry. I saw that d
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: L and I was like down low, and I was like, daughter,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: do not let her go back to Anchorage.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: But everything about man one hundred percent fits his victims
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: and was in the From what I could tell, it
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like they had a lot of people go missing,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: unlike Anchorage because it was a smaller community. You know,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Anchorage was a bustling oil town, lots of transience Seward was.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, they would have people come in for the summer, visitors,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: but other than that, it was a pretty small.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: What did like five six hundred people or something. I mean, yeah,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: it's not a very big so you can't take a
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: lot of people from there because it would be noticed
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: a lot faster. Yeah, they probably did not have a
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: high population of sex workers.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah, compared to anchorageage just where it was
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: from what I gathered. I could be wrong, but from
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: what I gathered, you know, Seaward was a little bit
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: different in that sense. So I mean, I don't know.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: I think, Racia, does your daughter in law still live
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: an Anchorage position? Does need to talk with her?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Be good spoiler alert, Terresa Theresia. They haven't changed anything,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: and they.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Haven't, but I would like to talk to her if
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: she still loves there, because I got questions. And I'm
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: tilometers too, because I do. They have a lot of
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: missing people and they don't give a shit. And if
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: she does love there, you need to get her here
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: because yikes.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Now in the official timeline of the Alaska Justice System
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: and Robert Hanson nineteen seventy four is a blank page. Now,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: don't get a toyted. I think he totally kept doing
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: what he was doing. I think more women were dead
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: or missing, but they were on any records. We've got
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: nothing for the year of nineteen ninety four.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I think about it. He was taking people that people
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: don't notice and he got good at it. So share
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: these people good but they're nothing. I'm going to just
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: say he did not just do nothing.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: No.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Tventy four.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Now, once we're done with this whole story, I do
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: encourage people to go back and listen once you know
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: all the stuff and you're like, yep, nope, there's no way.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Even according to him, there would have been no way.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: According to his own words, that will he'll hear later
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: in a different episode that literally nothing happened in nineteen
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: ninety four. But for the public there was no arrest
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: records for Robert Hanson, no parole violations, and no high
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: profile disappearances that the police could definitely link to Robert Hanson,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: not saying there aren't disappearances or perhaps even bodies they
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: found that they attributed to somebody else. As we learned
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: in the last episode, you're not the greatest at prosecuting anybody. So,
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: but in the life of a predator, silence isn't an
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: absence of action. It's an evolution of technique. Think of
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: all the stuff he's learned in the last four years.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy one. If nineteen seventy one was about
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: impulses and nineteen seventy three was about testing boundaries, the
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four was the year Robert C. Hansen became
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: a ghost, and I think very much improved on his
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: skill set Ada.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Perhaps he's been his weekends at the Pioneer School of
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Archery standing on the line with his compound bo Archery
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: is a sport of precision, patience, and the ability to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: remain perfectly steel while the world moves around you. That's
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: why I have no good at it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: I've never tried, but I've always won in two I
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: don't think i'd be great at it.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: But it's not hard. I mean it's not easy. It
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: does take some skill.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Now, or perhaps this was more of a rehearsal instead
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: of a hot Maybe Hanson was training his mind to
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: see people as marks that required the same cold, calculated
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: trajectory as the bullseyes on his range. By excelling in
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: a public, wholesome sport, he was reinforcing a mask of
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: normalacy that made him basically invisible to the troopers, because
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: boy did they love a good, respectable man. And he
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: really kept his nose clean. So, oh, you're a good
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: at buttery as well. You're good at it, yeh. I
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: already knew, lady, and Gray was on my survival team
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: for the epocales.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not good, but I've done it. I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: can do decent, but I'm not good. So we're gonna
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: have to have when we have a meetup, we're gonna
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: have to have an archery competition. Now. We used to
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: call it Kaptain for her insane labeling of things. Lama,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: your category headline for this next part really pushed me
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: over the edge, and I'm going to share it with
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you guys. The early bird gets the girl.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what else to point.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: It was pretty accurate, and I don't know what to tell you,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: and I don't like it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I don't like it either. Well either, you're going to
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: love my future ones.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: While the city slept, the meek Baker was awake. His
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: routine at the bakery gave him a tactical advantage that
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: no detective could match. Between three to four am, he
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: would drive to work as the bars and the clubs
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: on the strip were emptying out. He could watch the dancers,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the drifters, and the runaways walking learning who would be
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: missed and who wouldn't. Was he scouting the disposables, the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: women the system already failed. Was he realizing that if
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: he picked his targets carefully, the blank pages of the
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: police records would stay blank.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Who do we know that was leaving a club at
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: three in the morning and then has found several hours later.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Oh that's right, Shirley Anne Jonas. I'll forget about her.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: She wasn't a transient or a sex worker of any kind.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: But he would leave home early because normally he would
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: go to work at four, so he would leave the
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: whole hour early to go cruising. Okay, like we've.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: Said before, I also don't think he worked.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: By himself, not all the times. I don't think so.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Now he could have used this time for intense geographic
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: scouting as well. Without the pressure of law enforcement on
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: his back. He could have spent his off hours driving
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the Seaward Highway in the rugged roads of the Matsu Valley.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, he definitely had spent a lot of time
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: scouting places to put bodies in the future.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: He did now, maybe he was looking for more than
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: just fishing spots like isolated gravel pits.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was easy, Mason. What remote river banks those
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: are coming?
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And what it clearings where screens would be swallowed in
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the thickness of the spruce trees.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Bethvein z oonne.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Was he building a mental map of Alaska that existed
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: off the grid, a map that possibly would eventually be
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: populated by those extra X marks?
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And if so, then surely he realized the limitations of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a car. A license plate was easy to track, and
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: a car can be seen at a trailhead. Had he
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: thought about, I don't know, moving his hunt to the sky,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: perhaps towards the Nick River and the vast, unmonitored bush
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that could only be reached by a small plane. Was
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: he preparing for the ultimate transition from a roadside kidnapper
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: to a bush pilot who could make a person vanish
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: into the thousands of square miles of the Alaskan wilderness,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: never to be seen again. Hmm, I think so.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: When Robert Hansen re emerges in nineteen seventy five, he
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: seemed more confident, more aggressive, and more convinced of his
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: own invincibility. Why wouldn't he, I mean, why wouldn't he?
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Absolutely should he should?
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, like he should he I can't even show
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: him for that, like yeah, And that kind of confidence
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't born overnight. Perhaps it was forged in the silence
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy four, a year where maybe he learned
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that if he kept his head down and his aim true,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the world would let him do whatever he wanted. Because
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: the police just basically give him a pass.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: He had every reason to believe that, I mean good proof.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: You know, when there's no accountability, people learn that what
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: they did is okay.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Now, in the summer of nineteen seventy five, Robert Hansen
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: sat in his parole officer's office, the picture of a
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: reformed cistant and guess what he did. He asked for
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: permission again to travel south to Seaward for the Fourth
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: of July holidays, claiming he had a simple, wholesome goal
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: of wanting to go fishing because his last one was
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: so nothing happened in seventy But.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Isn't that called the pattern, mister pearl officer, why would
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: you let him go twice?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: His parole officer, who saw only the hard working baker
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: and world class archer, granted the request. Of course, he
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: did fishing for what Hansen didn't say, but as soon
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: as the paperwork was signed, the meek baker persona slipped
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: just enough for him to ask a friend if he
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: knew any girls enswed that he could party with. I'm sorry, guys,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: it's friends to what friends?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: I want to know their names. I couldn't find their names,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: but I want to know their names. Well, ask a
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: friend is a JS person.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And friends could be like minded people because guys, they
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: found each other somehow they did.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Now, Robert and Robert Hanson didn't party. Okay, that man
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: is not known for partying.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Ever, well we know his party means.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Right right, it is not. I don't even think he
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: had like a drinking problem or a drug problem. He
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: didn't even when here he.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Was the problem. He didn't need a drinking problem.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: He was the problem. Now Robert Hanson was returning to
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: a familiar hunting ground, and once again the fourth of
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: July and Sea Ward would be marked not just by fireworks,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: but by the vanishing of another young woman.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And for the record, I'm just going to state right now,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the fact he did this during my birthday month makes
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: it even worse. July should not be tarnished. But just
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: like in nineteen seventy three, the town vibrated with the
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: chaotic energy of the Fourth of July. The streets were
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: packed with runners for the annual Mount Marathon race in
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: family celebrating the holiday. It's a great time to get out.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: But for Mary Kathleen Phil July fifth was supposed to
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: be a quiet Saturday, a day for routines, for errands,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: and for reaching out to the husband that she missed.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: Now. At twenty two, Mary was a student at the
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Seaward Skills Center. Her husband, Michael, was hundreds of miles
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: away on the North Slope, laboring on the Trans Alaska pipeline.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: It was a very typical Alaskan arrangement. Men would work
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the high paying jobs in the north while building a
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: life in the south because living in the northern part
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: of Alaska probably sucks like a lot.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That morning, Mary set out with a simple goal.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: She wanted to go to the library and write a
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: letter to Michael. We know that a friend gave Mary
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: a ride into town and dropped her off at a bakery.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Sometime between one point thirty and two pm. Friends spotted
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: her near the waterfall on Loyal Point Road. It was
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: a landmark. She knew, well, just a half mile south
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: of the bakery. Why do I feel like you recognize
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: so many of these street names and areas.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because we haven't been in Seaward yet,
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: so this is our first.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Oh maybe just red ahead.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Probably probably, But as you can see in the little
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: map here that Amos made, everything is very close together.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: You know, it's a walking business. I mean, it's probably
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: more miles than we think it is, but yeah, it's all,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: you know, right in a line. There's no like, oh,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: you know you had to walk through woods and no,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: it's all pretty probably populated areas. Now, she was very
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: easy to spot with her red, frizzy hair and distinct
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: of pink framed glasses with thick clintes. And she was
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: wearing an army jacket, a gray sweater Levi's, and toffee
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: hiking boots with a small black book bag on her back.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Now that just goes to show the cool weather in August.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for the July that they're still like hiking
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: boots and jackets and stuff. We would never it's to
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: be too hot, but not there, not there.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: So I googled from the Seaward Skills Center down to
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the waterfall twenty to twenty five minute walk.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: That's what like two miles?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: I like that's not much.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: Maybe three. I don't know, Like that's not much.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: So no, yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Now. It's also been said by Hanson's former prison roommates
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: decades later that Hanson would tell them about how much
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: he had a thing for redheads and how they drove
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: him wild, which as a partial redhead, not a not
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: a fan.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Somewhere between the waterfall and the library, the trail went cold.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Mary never arrived to write her letter, and she never
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: returned to her home on the Loyal Point Road. When
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: the festivities of the weekend began to wind down, the
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: realization set in that Mary was gone.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: The disappearance was instantly treated as foul play. Mary wasn't
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: a drifter. She was a woman with a marriage she
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: cherished and a life that was on pause, but not
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: a life she wanted to abandon. When Michael, her husband,
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: heard the news on the North Slope, he dropped everything
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: and rushed back to Seaward, hoping to find his wife,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: but he returned to a town that had no answers
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: for him.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: The tragedy of Mary Bill is that is the sheer,
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: daylight nature of her disappearance. She wasn't in a dark
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: alley or remote camp. She was just a half mile
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: from a bakery, walking along a familiar road in a
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: small town during a crowded holiday weekend. Her case still
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: remains unsolved to this day.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Just so sad and awful.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: People do not just disappear something else something right.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I know, tera say he is a sick Oh have
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: you listened to our other if you haven't, which is
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: fine because I know he just came back. But if
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you haven't, please go listen to them, because girl, this
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: is one of the wildest. If you think you know
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: anything about Robert Hanson, you might from his stuff in
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: the eighties, but nobody talks about all the years before that.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: And that really is the most vile discussing part I think.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, the eighties are vile and discussing too, but
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: none of that would have happened.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Just wait until it comes out what he did in
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: the other state. It's okay, because someday that's going to
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: come to fruition.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Now, the case for Robert Hanson's culpability and the disappearances
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: of Megan Emrick and Mary phil is built on the
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: foundation of proximity, geography, and physical exes on a map
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: that the killer refused to explain because remember, well, I
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: don't think we talked about it.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: We haven't talked about it yet.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: There will be a map, all right, Just remember excess map.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: And while Hanson eventually traded seventeen lives for a plea deal,
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: the names of these two young Seaward women remain the
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: secrets he guarded most fiercely until his death in two
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: thousand and fourteen. Mm hmm, that's right. Nothing. You will
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: not say a word about those exes on his map
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: at resurrection.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The similarities between the two cases are two consistent
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: guys to ignore. Both Megan and Mary were young, both
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: were associated with the Seaward Skill Center, and both vanished,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: while Hanson was verified to be in the area with.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: His boat, with his boat, with his boats. Now, Hanson
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: spent numerous summers and Seaward numerous and said he would
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: drive his truck and camper to Seaward in the spring,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: leave them there, and commute back and forth from anchorage
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: in a car. That's right. He was there a lot
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: in the summers of the early to mid seventies. He also,
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: oh wait, hold on, I've forgotten. Sorry, I'm running the sideshow,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: and he's probably gonna watch back and be like, Lama,
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: you need to get it together.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: It's hard.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, is this even the right one? I don't know.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: He also described himself as a doc walker. That's right,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: this is his own, his own words. Here, he admitted
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: to strolling the Seawards waterfront bullshitting with fishermen to blend
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: in his words blend in. He even confessed to using
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: the promise of a fishing trip to lure later victims
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: like Joanna Messina also Seaword Later we'll find out about her.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: He was a man with a multiple bases of operation
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: and had a large boat that allowed him to vanish
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: into Resurrection Bay at a moment. Notice, I mean, I
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: don't know how many things you need to put in
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: a category to.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Be like, something just popped in my head. Yes, any chance,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Dexter was somebody heard about him taking it women out,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: tying them and dropping them, just you know, dex But
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: that was no But they wrote it now. But if
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: they read stuff from back then.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: I find the irony of the name Resurrection Bay.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Resurrection Bay, that's all I'm liking.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: It's haunting right, Like it's just like interesting.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: The distance between the skills in our laundry room, where
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Megan was last seen, and the docks where Hanson kept
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: his boat for a mere half mile eleven minute walk.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: The Seaward Baker, the Seaword Bakery, a place where Mary
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: phil was a familiar face, sat just a three minute
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: car right away from the boat launch. Three minutes.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now there's on the map there you know, we
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: have Mary down at the bottom that was the last
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: place she was seen. There's Megan's the skills center. Like
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: this is literally just a straight shot anywhere anywhere. Yeah. Now,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: when investigators raided Hanson's Anchorage home in nineteen eighty three,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: they discovered, oh, here it is. Sorry, I write a
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: whole bunch of stuff ahead of time, and I don't
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: know where we are.
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: But I'm wait, we haven't.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I'm the worst at it to forgive us people.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I know. I'll be like I'll say something and then
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: like a minute or like a para of later, I'm like, oh,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: you did say that and explained there, but you know,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't remember.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It's okay.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: Now, when investigators rated Hanson's Anchorage home in nineteen eighty three,
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: they discovered the aviation Map, a literal map of terror.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: On it, Hanson had placed small X marks. Seventeen of
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: them corresponded perfectly to the burial sites of the women
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: he confessed to murdering. There was over twenty one, maybe
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: twenty four total. However, the map contained a few extra marks.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Two of those exes were located in the Seaward and
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: Resurrection Bay areas. Now, I'll say this, whether we don't know,
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: we do not know Win Hanson began these maps. We
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: don't know if they began in the seventies, at the
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: beginning of the eighties, we don't know. We don't know
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: if those represent those two or additional we don't know.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: But why excees but he won't talk about him, don't.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Admit too, because they were not m h the castaway.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: So years later, to Sergeant Glenn Floth, the math was simple.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, I'm so sorry speaking of to
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: anybody listening now. It came to my attention today and
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: notes I had made previously that I didn't get to
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: till now, because it was later in the story that
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: I had found it. His name is actually he pronounced fluffy.
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: I don't care. He loser lossy.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, we like him.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: Oh that's why he's a good guy. He's a good guy.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: He's not a good one. So, mister Fluffy, if you are.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Still alive, I apologize. We've been pronouncing your name wrong
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: the whole time. We'll do our best.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: He's gonna say, it's probably not the first time.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: No, probably not. No. I saw it in my notes
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: today and I was like, man, wa had to go lama,
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: hi lady, Hi.
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: Hello lady. So two women disappeared from Seaward while Hanson
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: was in town. Hanson admitted he was there, and he
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: admitted he was looking for women, yet he vehemently denied
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the specific kills. When confronted by the DA, Hanson's stuttering
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: defense was immediate. I'm going to try to do this.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: No, probably okay, don't do that. That's not appropriate.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I was gonna try to give pauses. I never had
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: anything anything to do with any girls out of Seaward. No,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna stutter. I was gonna go, oh, pauses,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: and where the stutters.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: Were, Oh, okay, that's probably fine. I was like the
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: other one like no, no, I'm not going to try
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: to stutter. Even though he sucks.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: He does suck, but other people who stutter don't suck.
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: No, no, now, Yes. Hanson's primary targets were the women
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: of the Anchorage Strip, sex workers and dancers he believed
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: the world wouldn't miss. And Mary phil and Megan Emerick
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: did not fit that profile. But neither was Susan Huppard.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: And if you believe that he may be the one
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: responsible for the death of Beth van Sand also not
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: a sex worker or anything like that. Shirley Jonas also not.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: Zz Mason also not. They weren't sex workers or answers either.
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: And you know what else I think about the Resurrection
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Bay area too, is when he says I didn't remember
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: he was asking friends for girls that could park, like
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: if he the Resurrection baymarks. I do believe. I well
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: not I necessarily believe, but I have a strong theory
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: that those might have not been.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Look just him, I there's a couple through this that
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: I think I'm not just him.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: I have questions, I do.
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: So sorry, I just got a message. So Sergeant Glynn
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: Fluffy also believed that throughout Hansen's career, he suffered from
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: impulse breaks in his routine. He would see a redheaded
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: woman like Mary or Magan walking a dormitory and the
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: compulsion would override his tactical system. It's like a kid
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: in the Candy story. He's got all. Because these women
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: came from respectable backgrounds, Hanson likely felt a different kind
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: of tactical fear or a twisted sense of shame, leading
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: him to deny them even when the game was up.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and unlike the Shallow Graves and the Nick Rivers,
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: still the depths of Resurrection Bay are unforgiving. If Hanson
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: used his boat to dispose of Mary and Meghan, he
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: knew the ocean would ensure they were never recovered. Alaskan
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: waters are They're pretty serious of all of the waters
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: and days.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: That you would potentially dump bodies in such a beautiful, serene.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Place, gorgeous place.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: I can't help you even let that because.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: He's garbage and we hate him. Yeah, he's the worst.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: This theory was bolstered in two thousand and a to
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: buy Manfred west in kin Gage, Hanson's former prison roommates
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: at Spring Creek Correctional Center. Now they both claimed that
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Hanson admitted to killing Mary Phil and to dumping her
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: body in the bay, and that he took Megan Emeric
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: to a remote cabin accessible only by boat, to be buried.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: He allegedly also drew a picture of this mystery cabin.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: You know that is a good redheads maybe were like
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: his ideal.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: His only Phil was a redhead. Megan was a brunette.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: But she kinda with that sungloss. And I'm gonna say
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: she has red hat.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: It could have been off, you know, depending what I'm
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: in depends on what color you see my hair, you
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like, if it's light, if it's
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: sunny day, my hair is gonna refuse.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: I will tell you. When we met the live show,
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, damn, her hair is red outside in
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: the sun. I was like, damn girl.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, But otherwise it just looks like I'm a
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: brunette most so fiery. That's true. That's true.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: I know the word of two prisoners who wanted to
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: trade this information to lessen their sentence leaves a lot
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: to be desired. I understand that. But both the FBI
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children interviewed them.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Quote strange time. Quote. Some of this may be far fetched,
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: some of it may not, said Janet Franson, the investigator
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: working the case for the National Center for Missing and
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: Exploited Children. Quote, at least what I've been able to
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: track down and verify, it's been good info. So that's
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I was sad, sweetie, well smart.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: You until here like screw this. So, I mean, that's
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: a really big that's big deal. And I listened to
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: this podcast. I'm not even going to name them because
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I don't even want to check them out because the
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: way they talked about things I don't like.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: This is that the one I went and listened to
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: with the I don't know if it told me about
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: it and I went and checked it out, did you Yes?
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I did, the one that you pulled the transcript for. Yes, yes,
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: I don't like you not mention their names. No, they're
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: not going not deserve Nope.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Not going to. But I did read Manifred's story. I
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: did listen to what he had to say. No, Kay
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: Engage can go fuck himself. He refused to say anything
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: unless he got a deal. And listen, they're not in
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: there for good crimes, all right, especially Ken West isn't
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: great either. But of the two, Ken can go fuck himself.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: He's out by the way so well. I don't know
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: if he's so alive, but he did get out.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know where West is. I think he's still
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: in there. But I will say of what West had
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: to say, at the very least, he really did want somebody.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: He had to do and say a lot of things
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: to Hanson. He wasn't happy about or pleased it out
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: and was discussed by to get information about these two girls.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: Because when they're in prison Spring Creek Correction Center, you
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: want to take a guess where it is. It's by
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: c word, It's right there. It's right there where these
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: missing these girls went missing. So I will give West
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: the credit in that he was willing to get this
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: information and he did not end up getting anything out
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: He didn't get it for the right Rea said he
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: did the other one.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I trust the other one. No. So I
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: just want to preface by those two. So so can Gage.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: I could see being on the TMI dating thing from there.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Look at him, him being one of those guys.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: His crimes were not great. You don't want him on
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: any dating second.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: No, but he just so. And one of the things
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: that they allegedly verified was the existence of the cabin
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: from Darla Hanson herself. Yeah, she said that it did
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: exist and that she had been there, but she had
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: no idea how to find it, as she hadn't been
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: there more than a time or two over the years. Darla, really,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, how do you not remember at least some
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: norural idea where you went?
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: But that's just in fair fairness to Darla in that area,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: Like it's just like these little islands, like if you
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: don't know how to navigate water like it was. It
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: wasn't like a it was, no, but it took.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Us fifteen minutes and he turned right out of the dock.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's some inform and maybe she did and
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: we just don't have the records.
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Well, remember she didn't she did not like riding boats,
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: so I think she only went like a time or two, and.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe she had taken that's true. Maybe she went below Okay,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: sorry Darla.
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, she she very much said it was there.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: She was just like I I don't even know, like
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: I don't even know where to begin to I could.
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: I can't navigate my way on a boat at all,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: even in the small lakes we have. I'm like, I
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: don't which way I am.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: The screenshot of something that just popped up that double
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: h apparently put on my calendar, which is appropriate for
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: right now, trash out tomorrow. Oh, it's a reminder to
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: take the trash out. And I'm like, we're taking the
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: trash out right now. We're talking about Hanson. Yes, okay, Now,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: Robert Hanson sadly took the truth to his grave, but
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: the death map he left behind serves as a silent
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: witness to those lives he refused to acknowledge. Yeah, and
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: why else would he put exes on there? He didn't
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: put exes just because, guys.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: You'll learn definitely not. You will learn it, definitely not.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: So as the search for Mary phil grew cold and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: the silent decade was punctuated by a scream that was
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: nearly silenced by the bureaucracy of the law, Robert Hanson
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: had returned from his July fishing trip with a sharpened
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: appetite and a dangerous new confidence.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: Because, guys, he learned that if no body was found,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: the police eventually stopped looking, especially in Alaska, but in
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: late September nineteen seventy five. He made a mistake. He
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: chose a victim who fought back, and he chose a
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: system that was designed to look the other way.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, in nineteen seventy five, Anchorage, because They're Amazing,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: utilized a third party rape reporting system. It was a
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: well intentioned but deeply flawed mechanism that allowed victims to
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: report a sexual assault through a third party, often a
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: crisis center or a doctor, without immediately filing a formal
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: police report. The goal was to provide trauma, enforced care
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: and privacy, and the reality for Robert Hansen was basically
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: a get out of Jeffrey Carden. This was not this
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: was not great. I think maybe this was like the
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: beginning of idea of like what mandated reporters are today,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: ish when it's not great.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: They didn't think it through. So if a victim used
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: the system, the police were notified that an assault had occurred,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: but they were often blocked from seeing the victim's name
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: or pursuing the suspect unless the victim felt safe enough
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: to go official. So for a predator like Hanson, this
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: created a legal dead zone where he could commit a
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: crime and the authorities could know about it, yet he
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: remained untouchable, which is wild. That is wild to me
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: that I hope the police info.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: I just don't understand, Like how was this at all productive?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: Like I don't.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Basically gave police permission to not do their.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Job right, like talk about a way to humanize women more.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: You can't even put a name to these stories that
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: the police were seeing.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, is Laney listening to us in her
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: ears while she's on stage? Is that what that is saying?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Above? She says she's making dinner silly ghosts.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't Oh uh, Carrie, I didn't see that.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: When I'm like going, girl, don't you think of me
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: hearing what you're singing?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: I mean I feel much better now.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: Now. On October fifth, nineteen seventy five, just a few
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: minutes after or a few months after, the disapparants are married, though,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: Cheryl Cheryl Messer of the Anchorage Rape and Assault Center
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: brought a terrifying report to investigator Sam Barnard. It was
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: a story of a predator who wasn't just silent, he
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: was calculating.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: The victim was a twenty eight year old woman working
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: as a dancer at the KitKat Club. She had met
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: a man there, and, in a moment of normalcy that
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: would prove nearly fatal, gave him her phone number. At
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: four am on September twenty eighth, the man called her
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: to arrange a meeting at the Fork and Spoon restaurant.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: I love their litteral names.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I know the clubs have wildly.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I nobody even the restaurant Fork and Spoon.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: My favorite is the strip club called Great Alaskan Bushku
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Bush I know.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: By the way, there is one in Arizona. Now, for sir,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: there is there is because okay. Well, when she arrived,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: the meek baker disappeared. He pulled a large semi automatic
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: pistol and forced her into his vehicle, a deep red
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five station wagon with a black interior. Despite
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: her terror, the victim managed to memorize the license plate,
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: a Y two six one.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Hanson drove her north of Anchorage to a state park
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: and chook chug ak Chokayak.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know to get our best alast guns. I'm sorry,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: There the assault became a ritual of dominance. He didn't
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: just hurt her. He issued commands with a cold, demanding authority.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: If you don't do as you're told, I'll kill you.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Now. To further isolate her, Hansen spun a web of
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: lies designed to make himself seem like part of a larger,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: uns stoppable force. He claimed he worked on the trans
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Alaska pipeline and that he and a friend were systematically
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: raping women across the Anchorage area. It was a psychological
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: tactic to make the victim feel that the entire state
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: was a hunting ground. Now, listen, we know he didn't
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: work the pipeline, but in every lie is a little
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: bit of.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Trust to say every single why is a bit of truth. Okay, guys.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: H Hinson's most effective weapon wasn't his gun. It was
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: his understanding of social stigma. He looked at the women
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: and played what he believed was the high card. I
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: know you won't be a good witness against me. You're
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: a new dancer and prostitute. He told her. He was
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: betting that the police wouldn't believe a woman from the
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: strip over a local business owner. He was betting that
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: her shame would keep her silent.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I mean why wouldn't he. It's true.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: It's what he's been taught high eighties.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: I bitterly taught by He was taught that by the law,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: by the judicial system, by everything. And he's reformed now, guys,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: and he's reformed. He's a good family man now. In
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: Hansen's bet almost paid off, the victim refused to give
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: her name to the police, swearing Cheryl Messer to secrecy. However,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: the reason for her silence went deeper than her work
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: at the Kitcat club. The dancer was living a double life.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: She was actually a school teacher from the Lower forty eight,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: working the clubs to make ends meet. She lived in
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: a state of dual terror, fearing that Robert Hansen would
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: take her life and fearing that the school district in
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: the Lower forty eight would take her livelihood if her
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: involvement became public disgusting. She had every reason to believe
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: that too. She wasn't wrong.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I was like, she wasn't wrong. She had every reason.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: But on October tenth, nineteen seventy five, Investigator Barnard pulled
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: up to a quiet residential street and anchorage. They're sitting
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: in the driveway of a modest home was the exact
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: car described by Giant Jane Doe, a nineteen seventy five
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: red Volvo station Wagon with black interior.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: Now, the vehicle wasn't just a match for the make
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: and model, it was the physical manifestation of the victim's trauma.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: Barnard noted the deep red exterior, a detail that stood
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: out against the graying October light of anchorage. The license
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: plate was the final confirmation the car belonged to Robert C. Hanson,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: which is just kind of crazy to me because with
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: Patty Roberts, he wrote down, you know, different information on
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: the hotel thing, and I'm just surprised.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: But remember he didn't write down the information of what
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: he was driving. Someone saw this and was in it.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: That is, you would have went to a hotel. He
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: would have probably written that he was in a blue
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Pinto or something.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: That is true. That's fair points.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, Bernard didn't stop at the car. He moved to
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: verify the man behind the wheel when he crossed. Referenced
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: the victim's descriptions thirty years old, five eight, brownish blonde hair,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: blue eyes, hair part of on the side, wire rimmed glasses,
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: and a slight stutter in his speech. It was a
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: perfect one hundred percent match to Robert Hanson.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: Now, the victim, despite her terror and the darkness of
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: the Chugayic Woods, had provided a description so accurate it
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: was effectively a fingerprint. Barnard procured an unmarked photograph of Hanson,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: a standard police headshot, and sent it through the secret
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: channel of Cheryl Messer to the victim.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: A few days later, on October fourteenth, investigator Sam Barnard
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: sat across from Robert Hanson. Hanson didn't just deny the crime. Instead,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: he rewrote it, casting himself as the victim of a
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: shakedown and a scorned woman.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Get that's what he said about Patty Roberts doop. I know.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hmm, this sure does happen, and like to
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: one person, it's kind of suspicious. Now, Hanson admitted to
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: knowing a girl from the KitKat club. He admitted to
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: picking her up while his wife was out of town,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: a rare moment of honesty used to anchor a larger life,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: but his story was riddled with classic deflections. He claimed
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: that they had a mutual agreement for sex, but once
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: they were in the car, she surprised him by demanding
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: one hundred dollars. Yeah right, he said, he became upset
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: but simply drove her back to the club, where she
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: allegedly threw a tantrum and called him name Scotch.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Girls are so mean, and yet nobody saw him drop
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: her back off.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Right, I mean, it's just like really brought, like really.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Gotten away with it. Why would he think to do
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: anything different? No, so by painting the victim as a
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: disgruntled sex worker and himself as a principled man who
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: refused to pay, hens intok full advantage of the errors
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: inherent bias against women in the adult entertainment industry, which
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: is still alive today in twenty twenty six.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: Well, how as we learn Alaska doesn't matter if you're
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: in the industry or not. If you're just have the
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: title of woman, it all falls under the same. Now.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: When Barnard impressed him on the specifics like the semi
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: automatic pistol and his whereabouts on September twenty eighth, Hanson
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: leans real hard into his status as rehabilitated citizens. Quote,
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: I'm a convicted feeling I can't own a gund. I
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: was in Sea Word that day fishing. I know that's
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: not his accent, but like that's exactly how I imagine
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: that sounding, like it's so contrive Like that's an actual
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: quote by him, in case you're wondering it is. I
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: just now because you know, all felons are so honest.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: That's I'm gonna save my rant on this one. But
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: it was a brilliant, if stuttered defense. He used his
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: criminal record as a shield, suggesting it was impossible for
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: him to have a weapon because you know, felons don't lie, right.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: Not in Alaska too, during the seventies when shit's crazy.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: Then he used the site of his actual suspected crimes,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: the disappearance of Megan Emrick and Mary phil to cover
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: up a crime he didn't realize was starting to create
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: a map of his own movements.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: I don't see something. He's something now. Two days after
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: the interview, the investigation hit a peak and a valley simultaneously.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Cheryl messel Messer called Barnard with a breakthrough. The victim
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: had seen the photograph of Robert Hanson and positively identified
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: him as her attacker. There was no doubt the car
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: matched the stutter his face. Everything write nothing but net
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: on that one.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: And I'm gonna just say why that isn't good enough.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: I can't why, but it's just like, seriously, but the
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: legal system intervened. Despite the positive ID, Jane Doe, the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: schoolteacher living a double life, remained paralyzed by fear and guys,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: I don't blame her. She refused to speak to the police.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: She refused to let her name be put on a subpoena.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: She feared the social death of her career almost as
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: much as the physical death that Hanson had threatened.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, and listen, I still don't blame her because
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: even if she would, even if she would have taken
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: it to court, as we've learned so far, exactly doesn't matter.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: Doesn't matter. He's gonna get thrown out. He'll get out
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: in six I her.
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: I do not fault her.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: She wasn't wrong. I do not think honestly, I don't
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: think any justice would have come for her. But ken
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: should have. It absolutely should have. But it didn't.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: Why didn't law enforcements say, Okay, she's not going to
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: come forward. Maybe we should put somebody on him to
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: watch him.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: Because he's an honest man, he's a respectable member of
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: the community. Terry. He can't just go doing that. Gosh,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: what about his reputation? Have you ever thought about the
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: reputation of a middle class white man before Harry?
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: And we have learned and the police should know, he's
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: not respectable. How much more evidence do we need? As
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: we learned with the women in Alaska, even if they
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: had it on video, they wouldn't believe it.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely crazy.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: I hate him, I hate Alaska. Every woman should leave Alaska.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just telling you you should leave Alaska because then
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: the men will leave. If there's no women, the men
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: will leave.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: That's true. Now, because of the silence, the case was
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: put on hold, the report was destined for a dusty archive,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: and Robert Hanson was allowed to walk back to his bakery.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: He had looked an investigator in the eye light about
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: a gun he definitely owned and realized that as long
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: as his victims were afraid of the light, and he
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: could stay in the dark forever. I mean again, why
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: not the system keeps giving him win after win after win.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I had to pour another one because I just can't.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: What's even more interesting in this Jane Doe story is
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: that Hanson's choice of location for this assault was no accident, guys.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: He took her to Chugak State Park, specifically in the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Chugok area. This was the same rugged area where Beth
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Van Sand had been found murdered and m Q Creek
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: four years earlier.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: Puzzle pieces fitting together.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: Hunters do not change growing up in a family that
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: they you know, my dad and my brother, I'm all hunted.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: They know what works for them. They know where to
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: go to get deer. It's no different for elk bear or.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: Women, anything anything. You guys, see how all as it
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: go along, these little pieces all like putting the.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: Puzzle pieces together. We should make a visual with all
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: the little puzzle pieces and at the end it just
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: all come together.
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: Right now, Hansen was effectively returning to his original stomping grounds.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, he knew every turnout, every gravel pit,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: and every trail where the Silent Killer the Alaskan elements
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: could help him maintain control.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: By late nineteen seventy six, Robert Hansen had survived multiple
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: close calls with the law. He had beaten the nineteen
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: seventy one assault charge with the light sentence, and he
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: navigated the silent year of nineteen seventy four, and he
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: had just slipped through the fingers of investigator Barnard in
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy five kidnapping case. He was, in his
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: own mind, a master of the system.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: That's what was wrong, And he wasn't wrong. The system
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: was built for a man like him.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: It was to be honest, it was, and that hurts
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: in so many ways. But in November nineteen seventy six,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: the Butcher Baker was brought down not by an elite
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: task force, but by his own bizarre, impulsive need that
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: he said was to be a good son.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: Oh I know, right, it's so hard to see.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: When I saw that, I was like, you're kidding me.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: No, No, I'm not no. And personally, I think his
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: whole story here that we're about to out is completely
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: total bullshit. It's all right, and that chainsaw was meant
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: for something more to Marius Okay, m hmm, because he
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: used it is the same tactic that he used with
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: police previously and was able to get away with it
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: every time. He was a good guy who made a mistake,
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: but he was not a real criminal. So you guys,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: let us know what you think. If you think he's bullshit,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: in this entire excuse of how this whole thing laid out,
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: because I call this bullshit on it, especially when we
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: know what his dad was like. None of this even
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: makes any sense. Well it doesn't, well wait.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: Till it doesn't make sense. But it also makes me
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: think of the Golden State killer who got arrested for
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: stealing a hammer and pepper spray that he used to
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: use on victims.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I mean he stole it, obviously, I
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: just think his reasons for it, but his reasons.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: The Golden State butcher said he had to steal it.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: We'll let me see it.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: No, they won't. But he had to steal the dog
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: repellent because dog tried to come at him when he
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: was on patrol, right, and the hammer was to do
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: repairs at his house. Oh my gosh, I said, I
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: loved that, Lady, love that. Okay, we're gonna need to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: make some merch, just all the bulls in the pope. Yes, now,
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: let me just set this for you guys.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: The setting was a fred Meyer, a place where you
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: could buy a gallon of milk and one aisle and
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: a heavy duty chainsaw. In the next Hanson's parents were
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: visiting from Oregon for the holidays, and the pressure of
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: being this successful, rehabilitated sun was weighing on him. Hands
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: poor wittle. I mean, his dad is a piece of sh.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if his dad was that bad.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: We don't even know it.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: You're right, Listen to me. I was taking his God,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: he he just gets it doesn't sound great.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: His dad does not sound great on paper.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, bye, like because his son said it and
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: he was from Poland or wherever I believed, Shame on me, I'm.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: Just saying now. As he wandered around the tool section,
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: he fixated on a chainsaw because his father had mentioned
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: wanting one for camping trips on the Oregon coast. In
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: Hansen's twisted internal monologue, that wasn't about theft, it was
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: about his son's devotion. Quote. I wanted almost more than
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: anything to please my father and could just imagine the
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: expression on his face on Christmas Day if I could
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: just give him that, Saul, it doesn't even make any
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: fucking sense.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: Bob, we go camping and not once has double h said. Damn,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: I wish we would have brought a chainsaw with this.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: So how does this dad have a chain saw. They
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: have there. They're not super affluent on either side, but
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: they are but well to do.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: To go camping back in mile day. Okay, so Lady
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: and Gray said, Anson's friends said the dad was rough.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: But like rough at what the standards.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true because maybe he has davishes an asshole.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, his dad does sound like an asshole.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: But you're not gonna you are not going to convince
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: me that his bullshit story that he gives about his
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: up brain, how the girls treated him in schools, why
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: he's like this now.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: Fuck you like that bullshit that the dad didn't have
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: a chain saw.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point, he's he's probably.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: Oregon, right, because in Texas that would be like saying
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: you had to buy my dad a gun because he always.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Wanted one exactly.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: Dad wanted a gun and he would go buy it
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: exact exactly.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: You know, his dad's probably in his sixties or seventies.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: He owned a resort like he was.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: My dad was demanding, My dad was abusive. My dad
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: was an alcoholic and guess what, I don't kill people.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. His dad does not
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: sound great.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: So but.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: I'll meet other people's words, not Roberts, not bab it'sguizings, Bob,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Bob bab.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: For a man who could moticiously plan an abduction and
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: scrub a crime scene, his attempt at retail theft was
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: shockingly amateur. Okay, he didn't hide the saw or wait
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: for a distraction. This is great. Instead, he placed an old,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: crumpled fred Meyer receipt from his pocket and placed it
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: on top of a chainsaw box, hoping the scrap of
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: paper would serve as a cloak of legitimacy.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: I think it's suspicious he had an old receipt in
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 2: his pocket. The fuck you did, Bob?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, if he carried a purse, I would believe
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: a little more, but a pocket. Do you not wash
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: your clothes?
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly that?
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: Or he planned it and just thought, oh, this will
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: look great and I'll just bring it. Maybe it was
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: in his truck, but I'm sorry, a crumpled old receipt
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: isn't gonna look like you just got it. I'd be
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: let's just be.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: Real here, no now, Then he took the receipt. He
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: walked towards the exit bypassing the registers, acting as if
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: the receipt proved his ownership. He was gambling on the
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: idea that no one would challenge a neatly dressed family man,
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: But he was wrong. A store security guard had been
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: watching him the entire time, and as he stepped into
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: the crisp November air, the hand the lull finally landed
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: on his shoulder.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: The incident offers a rare look at the dikoy of
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: Robert's personality. He could be a high functioning predator who
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: could manage a bakery, soon, fly a plane, and stock
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: victims for weeks without leaving a trace. Then there would
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: be his impulsiveness that he would risk his entire life,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: his home, his family, and his freedom just to steal
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: a chainsaw because he felt an impulsive thought about his
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: father's Christmas morning expression kind of like red hats.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: It's just it just doesn't listen. He was maniac like,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: that's there's no doubt he had a ceiling problem, yes,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: but it's the chain saw sense bullshit. Yeah, I don't
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: believe it. You want you want to prove to your dad,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: your reform man. So you're still a chainsaw that you
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: could absolutely.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: You're going to take a chance of getting caught, so
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: that your dad realizes you're not. Yeah, it's just do
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: He couldn't contain his impa to do that. Yes, I
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: do believe that, But his whole story of why, no,
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: I don't believe it for one second. It sounds just
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: like his other lot, like literally to a tea, his
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: other lies of I was just trying to be a
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: good person.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: I'm just a good guy to pay butt. In his defense,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: it's always worked for him.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I agree. I don't believe it now.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: Hanson later tried to justify the theft by pointing to
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: his financial stress by saying that he and his wife
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 2: had just bought a new home, pouring nine years of
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: savings into the mortgage. And also he owned a boat
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: and a camper and a truck and a new car,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: and and she had money. Remember she did. She did
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: because she paid for everything. Bob paid for pretty much nothing. Now,
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: he painted himself as a man pushed to the brink
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: by the burden of being a provider puller.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 3: Me.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: None of that's true, by the way, none of that
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: is true in his story. Whatever. That is all bullshit.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: His wife worked full time as a teacher. She paid
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: the bills for the house. His money was his fun money,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: so he I mean, yeah, he probably did contribute to
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: the savings of the house.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: Sure, it's not like she was a stay at home mom. Guys, No,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: he wasn't paying everything and you poured all your savings.
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: No you didn't stop. It's the seventies house. This costs
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: what like ten dollars. Get out of here, Michael, Get
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: out of here. It's a quote from Arrested Development. Put
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: a banana cost Michael dollars. What she is saying, somebody
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: out there is gonna get it, and they're gonna leave
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 2: a comment and be like, yes, okay, we'll just keep
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: going to sail for the win.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: It is one of the most humiliating ironies in the
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: entire history of Alaskan crime. Yeah, monkey better, I know
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: you're not here to see me, Sue. It's okay to
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: say hi, Lama, It's okay. Robert Hanson, a man who
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: had successfully navigated a silent decade of abduction, sexual violence,
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: and likely murder, was finally brought down not by a
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: team of experienced investigators, but by a store security guard
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: at fred Meyer.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: Which time usually the way it goes. Now By nineteen
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: seventy six. The contrast between Hanson's crimes was enough to
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: give anyone whiplash. So let's just do a very quick roundup,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: all right. Nineteen seventy one, Susan Heppard attempted kidnapping, followed
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: by the successful kidnapping and rape of Patty Roberts, and
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: was a prime suspect. Well, I don't know if i'd
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: say our prime suspect, not the laws prime suspect, our
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: prime suspect in the disappearance and murder of Beth van
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 2: san Oh wait hello wick A Banje. He only spent
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: a few months behind bars. Four He attempted kidnapping on
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 2: Susan Now nineteen seventy two, he likely stalked and left
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 2: Shirley Jonas to freeze in a truck yard. Also could
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: be the murderer of ziegar zz Mason case, but was
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: not really on the law enforcements list of suspects because
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: they got a tunnel vision with the tall Man and
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: the yellow and Gary. So but if you our cap
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: and track check check check on the similarities of all
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: of those things. Now in nineteen seventy three. In nineteen
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: seventy five, as we've just said, he was in Seaward
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: and the only common threat in the disappearance of Megan
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: Emeric and Mary phil He was there and then obviously
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy five when positively identified by Jane so
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: other kidnapping survivor who even provided his license plate number,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: but because of her fear both from him and society
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: to come forward, he was never arrested. I'm thanky, mm.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: I have a problem that with Jane Doe, and I
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: think I told you this in the comments. Everything she
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: said turned out to be true, the license plate number
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: of the car. Why didn't they believe that he had
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: a gun and go do a search warrant on his
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: house and all of his stuff, his bakery and everything.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: To find this he's a sex worker who cares Terry fine.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: Because she was right. Everything she pointed out was once
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: again right, like Patty Roberts, they could have parole violated
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: him for having a gun. Absolutely, and Amy every time
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: we go to stay it, I think we're gonna say
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: this he worked.
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: Every time I wrote it, I was like, there's a
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: fairly gonna think.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like not the Seaward guys worked about the Seaward,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: you know, And yet after five years of high stakes
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: predatory behavior, he was finally arrested for walking out of
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: a sliding glass door with a box and a facrisy.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: None of those lives we just mentioned were enough to
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: arrest him, to put him behind bars. Nope, a chainsaw,
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: a fred Meyer, the real crimes they're prosecuting and guys.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: To some degree, it was like a slap in the
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: face to his victims. But unlike a sexual assault case,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: which in nineteen seventy six devolved into a he said
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: she set battle, especially if the victim worked on the
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: strip shoplifting had a physical smoking gun so to speak.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: That saw was in his hands and the store had
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: the witness.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: The legal system in the mid seventies still now, and
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: quite frankly, oh, as I wrote, just keep reading what
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: you wrote, Lama, the legal system of the mid seventies,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: and quite frankly, even in today's world. That's how you know.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: I write things because I'm like, oh, you know what
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: I would say right here, let me just say it,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: And then I actually I did. I did say those.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: That's what's great. We write what we are saying.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it still invokes the same thing as you're
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: reading eight weeks later. Was often more efficient at processing
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: property crimes against a major corporation like fred Meyer the
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: true victims of the world, than it was at prosecuting
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: complicated violent crimes against marginalized women or just simply women
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: in general. Because Hanson was a convicted felon, the act
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: of stealing a two hundred dollars tool was a clear
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: out violation of his parole. Don't about it. Don't worry
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: that he might have a gun or anything that he
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: said he didn't have. Don't bother checking. It didn't require
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: a terrified school teacher to testify an open court. It
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: only required a police report and a store manager.
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: Because guys, I saw is more important. Don't forget that.
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: This arrest did what the screams of a dozen women couldn't.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: It put Robert Hansen back in front of a judge
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: who was losing his patience. While it felt ridiculous, infuriating
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: even that a chainsaw was a catalyst for his downfall,
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: it finally stripped away his rehabilitated status for the first
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: time in years. Meek Baker wasn't just a stuttering neighbor.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: He was a recipodist.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: Now the absurdity of Robert Hamnson's criminal record reached a
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: new peak in nineteen seventy seven, while he was entangled
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 2: and the legal fallout of the chainsaw incident. He wasn't
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: sitting at home reflecting on his life choices, because of
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: course he wasn't. Instead, he was looking at the horizon, because,
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, why should he take it seriously? He has
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: done way worse two human beings and had nothing to
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: worry about. Why should he give a shit about a
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: chainsaw charge?
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: And we both said why would he at the same
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: time go no, guys, that was not written down anywhere
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: else to say.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: At the same time, I'm pretty sure those that are
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: listening are probably like, well, yeah, why witty. At this point,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: He understood that his greatest reatness was the road. Every
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: time he stopped at a red light with a woman
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: in his car, he was one broken tail light away
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: from a life sentence. To become truly invisible, he needed
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: to leave the pavement behind and the waters. He needed
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: to fly.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: So Hanson applied for his pilot license, because why not.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: But the Federal Aviation Administration FFA FAA, Sorry, wrong, wrong
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: one there, FAA wasn't an easily as easily swayed by
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: the meek baker persona as the Anchorage courts. During his
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: medical evaluation, a red flag appeared. Hanson was purportedly using
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: the drug lithium to treat his stutter and nervousness. Now,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: which doesn't even make any sense, candies, but whatever it
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 2: was the seventies eightn't no whatever, he wasn't But okay. Now,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: the FAA's ruling was swift and critical. Lithium use was
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 2: a disqualifier for a pilot's certificate. They grounded him before
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: or he could even officially take off. They were like, nope,
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: which is I think it's weird, but okay, I think
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: it still is. Really that's a facating I took it. It
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: didn't really make a difference, I think, any part of anything.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 2: But okay, yeah, I think it's time. I mean, I'm
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: not opposed, all right. Flying a plane is very serious stuff, Okay,
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: I understand.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: So, in a typical display of Alaskan frontier logic, the
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: rules for flying a plane were strict, but the rules
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: for buying one were non existent. They were not a
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: the FAA might care about your medication, but a private
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: seller only cares about your cash.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: That's right, which is wild to make it seems wild,
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: But we'll get there. We'll get there. I understand why
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: it seems wild. But think about it like this, right,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: Like you can buy just you can buy a car.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: You don't need a license to be able to buy
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: a car in Texas.
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: To be able to register that car with the state,
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: you have to have insurance and a active driver's life.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: Oh no, shit, Oh you don't need that in Ohio.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: So this is still a thing.
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: In Texas you do, even if it's one that you're
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 1: just wanting to fix up in things, then you have
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: to file for a thing that it's a non working vehicle.
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's some loops to go through.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest, that's pretty restrictive for I'm surprised. It's Texas. Ohio.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: We're like, fuck it, whatever you want, it's fine. No,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: we don't have to do that here. And oh that's
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: that's because.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: When I got my cart sixteen, my parents bought it
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: before it was my birthday that they couldn't do anything
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: put it for me. They had to put it in
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: their name because I didn't have a license yet. I
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: only had a permit. They wouldn't even take my permit.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, all right, all right, I mean I don't
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: think it's that, you know, so to me, that's just
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: people buy the scenes all the time. They don't have
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: high end slacense.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: So how did you get an FAA number?
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, I agree, I agree now. In a move
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: that seems impossible in hidesight, according to Terry and many
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: people of the States, Hanson was able to register his
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: aircraft in his own name. He received a legitimate FAA
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 2: tail numbers, including the infamous in one, seven, two, eight
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: six for his Piper super Club. He was now a
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: pilot in every sense that mattered, to a predator, because
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, who gives a shit. You don't you're
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: killing people. You don't care about a license. Even if
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: the government said he wasn't. He now had the keys
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: to the wilderness. I mean, people are going to crime
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: that are going to do whatever they want there. They are,
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: That's just how it is.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: But for a plane though, it is kind of crazy.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: It's a plan and it's kind of crazy. So oh,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: that's a fair point. Well, we don't know, Texas, they're
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: apparently crazy.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: Well, no, you just get the insurance for one month,
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: you register the car, and then you don't pay the
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: insurance bill and you no longer have insurance, but your
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: car is registered for the next.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: You don't even have to provide proof of insurance at
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: the BMV here. Only if you get caught driving do
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: you have to provide insurance in Ohio.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: That is why people in Ohio are driving into rest.
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 2: Buildings, all the buildings, because they don't.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: I know, it's like the wild wild West of Alaska,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: but with cars.
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: But with cars. It's true. It's a crazy place.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: There's crazy Texas that when you take your license if
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: it's a dry area, you know, to prove that you're
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: twenty one, they take everybody's license and they put in
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: the number and they track it and they have to
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: track how many drinks you have and stuff.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, aren't you all the state of the Free? Like,
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 2: are you kidding me?
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: It's fine if it's a dry county because we're in
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: the Bible Belt.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: Baby, Oh alcohol, you're right, that's so serious. Everybody's right, right, Wow,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: that's wild.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: But you can bet your wives. It's fine.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: We have we have dry counties here, but we don't
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: do that kind of crazy. But I'm just kidding.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Everybody every place has they're crazy, all right, Texas isn't
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: the only place has they're crazy. We all got it.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: Now. The transition from the red Volvo station wagon to
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: the cockpit of a bush place change the nature of
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: his crimes.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 2: For you enunciated that purpose? Is it? Go Savage was here.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding, Okay, on my third Tonic, the airplane
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: now solved his greatest fear of getting caught in the bush.
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: There are no witnesses, no patrol cars, and no third
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: party reporting centers.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: I know, oh, I got a video here on I think, oh,
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: you know what Amy's watching, And she's like, MoMA, you
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: were supposed to put a picture like twenty minutes ago.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: And I know that's that's Robert in front of his
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: plane that I forgot to show a two seconds.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: He looks so normal, I know, he looks so normal.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: Like I'll be honest, I mean, he's not like the
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: cutest of guys, but he is not like.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Like if giving me a six pass things and say
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: picks a serial killer, I wouldn't have picked him. No,
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: I would have put it off because it's good looking
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: eyes because.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: It was good he has the blue eyes.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: I just kidding, Savage, just.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Stop coming in. Oh, don't announciate that word lama. He's
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: gonna run with it. No, I agree. I agree this
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: picture of him, he is not like, oh, like, okay,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: hidding me. Yes, that's true. I did know that. I
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: didn't know that. And I think, uh, what's what's the
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 2: other Boerbone in Kentucky?
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: But they don't sell uh huh.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's the way for what's the other There's
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: Jack Daniels, what's the other one? Jim b is in Kentucky?
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: And I believe that's in No, he doesn't. Well, that's
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: the thing about monsters, right, they never actually look like monsters.
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 2: But honestly, he was not at this point in his
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: life as he got older, which I feel like that
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: happens to a lot of men. Honestly. They once they
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: get to like a certain like adult age, they they
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: do become more like man attractive. Does that because there's like,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 2: you know, here's the boy, there's the keen boy, the
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: young boy, and then there's like the Mayon physique. Women
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: do it too, Yeah, we have the same things. Happen
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 2: to our body where you become a mature woman looking
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 2: at a certain point.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Agreed. So, like George Clooney was not attractive younger, he
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: got more attractive the older he got.
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: That, that's true. I also have silver Fox isn't older man,
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: even though I'm not with one. But yes, I agree,
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: Amos says. So in Texas you can't buy a car
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 2: without a driver's license.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: Apparently not No, because you have to have a driver's
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: license to have the insurance, and you have to have
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: an insurance to buy a car.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: That's crazy. That's how it is in Michigan either, is it, Amos,
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: y'all crazy down there in Texas?
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, Michigan also tries to charge you for a parcel
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: package for an envelope.
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: Don't even start with me.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 2: Let's get in the buildings. Where are we? I don't
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: even know you are right? Oh we Oh that's right.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: Because I was putting the video on it, I thought.
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: You needed more time, so I was trying to buy you.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: No, thank you, you're the best. I thought this is
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 2: going to be a video, but it's on doing anything.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: So it's like a man, I don't know what Amos meant.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: She said, play as much as it's three minutes, three
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: minutes and eleven seconds. Play as much as you want.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: No sounds the note she left for me.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: I'm reading it, but there's no video.
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: I'm seeing it. Okay, that's weird. Also, it could be
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: me Amy not you. Just really good.
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: Damn it, Llama, one night I eat off to show
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: up in the right room tonight for this she did,
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: So we're just gonna blame on her.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: That's doesn't matter.
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: We can play it next time.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It's just a video of the river.
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: It's fine. Now. Hanson didn't just want to kill. He
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: wanted to hunt. The plane allowed him to turn the
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: other as video.
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: Lama, you've got a little button. See the little thing
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: it's saying, replay it.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have that open because it's remoting.
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: You're sharing it on your screen. It's got the little replay.
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 2: I'm using the remotes there the water. Oh cheese, Oh
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: my cheese, Oh my god, you guys.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: Oh you have another grant, honey, have another time.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: I just poured my thron one in. It's your fault,
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: so did I too. I know. Okay, See it doesn't
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 2: look like it's moving on our show.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: Though it was for the first couple of minutes.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 2: Well just let it play. Just pretend envisionment in your mind,
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: since people can apparently do that now. Anyway, as I
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: was saying, the plane allowed him to turn the vast
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 2: Alaskan wilderness into his own private game reserve. He could
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: fly a woman to a remote gravel pit on the
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 2: Nick River or a hidden clearing in the Mattsu Valley,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 2: strip her of all hope, and comfortably indulge his fantasies.
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 2: There is no running from a plane in the middle
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 2: of the Alaskan wilderness. Talk about probably one of the
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: most terrifying things ever.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: As to say that is terrifying to me.
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 2: I didn't get it's playing, okay. I did not kill
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: her video. It is playing in my presenter window, not
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: on our.
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: Skalp Oh here comes at the producer has showed up
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: in the background, and she's like, damn, these hosts don't
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: even not a ship properly.
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know why it's not working.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: Amy, It's okay. Jamcke Baker had found a way to
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: bypass the laws of man by retreating into the laws
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: of nature, where the strongest predator wins, and it wouldn't
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: be long before the sound of a plane engine became
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: the last thing many women would ever hear. That terrifies me.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 2: That is okay, that picture is pretty cool because it's
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: the area of the Nick River. By the way, Amy,
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 2: keep this video for future shows, because this is very
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 2: important come the eighties. No, I can't think of a
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 2: more terrifying thing. Nine. The idea of the Alaska and
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: where wilderness already terrifies me.
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: And to be taken there in a plane that you
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: can only get there by plane. You can't run away
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: and get away. We are being very careful with Kinnick River,
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: is how I've been saying it, to make sure I
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: stand away from Richard. You don't want it to be
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: the o'kay name for Richard, I said Nick, but that
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: could be could be slurring.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: Probably at this point. No, I can't think of a
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: more terrifying thing to happen to a person ever. Ever,
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: so don't worry. We'll have that video reappear again in
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: future episodes because basically we'll play it for about three
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 2: years now. In April nineteen seventy seven, the meek Baker
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: stood before Judge singlet him. This should have been the
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: end of the road. The priests officer Lloy Bolt didn't
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: mince words, telling the judge that Robert Hanson was a
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: danger to society. I agree, have a boy volts. I
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 2: mean somebody else got it. He's like, whoa this guy?
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: So psychiatrist doctor Robert mcmanon provided to diagnosis that in hindsight,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: reads like a horror movie prologue. He testified that Hansward
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: suffered from manic episodes and manic depressive which we know
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: as bipolar disorder.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: Which he didn't have, by the way, right, hands that out,
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah I didn't.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: Hanson had admitted to having trouble controlling impulse urges like
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: these growing desires to do unacceptable things, things that no
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: one else had ever done. Yeah, she's even enough into
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: our docu mint, I think we're in trouble.
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: She was like, you too, you can never be left.
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: I need to go home.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, no, none of that actually fits into that
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: whole thing, but whatever. Now, During this time, a Corrections
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: department counselor made a chilling connection. They believed Hanson's kleptomania
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 2: wasn't about the objects he stole, which it's usually not
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 2: if you know anything about that disorder. It was sexually motivated.
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: Hanson eventually admitted that the act of stealing Game gave
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: him a sexual blow up charge, which I couldn't write
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 2: that and I still can't say it without being like,
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 2: what a sexual blow up charge?
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what a sexual blow.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: Up charge is? I don't know. I was like, I
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a type. She didn't know multiple times,
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 1: so I'm guessing it's a thing.
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: Those are his words, a sexual I went and checked
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 2: blow up charge. That's true. My quotes are either things
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: he said or that's where I know to inflict my sarcasm.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: She she's a right, that's we want to survive without you, Amy,
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: that we would not survive with that. She's writing us mess.
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: We're fine, We're fine, Amy, but we need you.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 2: We do always forever. Now. For him, the rush of
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: taking something that didn't belong to him was a somewhat
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: surrogate for the power he saw over women. I mean,
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: it's literally the same thing that for him, the chainsaw
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 2: and Jane Doe, because he saw women as not humans,
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: were linked by the same predatory impulse he was entitled
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 2: to anything he wanted when he wanted to.
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, So it's.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: Is buffy umps in. It's his biagra, y'all. Okay, viagra
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: didn't exist in the sixties. That's why he stole chainsaw.
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: That's why they didn't have figre yet.
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 2: Hi's welcome.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: A second evaluation by doctor Alan Parker of the Langdon
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 1: Clinic revealed a far more disturbing reality. Hinson's psychological scales
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: revealed a competent disintegration of personality. He was losing his
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: grip on reality. His empathy was nonexistent, and his energy
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: for violence was peaking.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, I agree he didn't have empathy, he never
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: had empathy, but his grip on reality fine, because guess
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: what reality was Exactly what he dial was to do
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 2: whatever he wanted to do.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: I think his reality wasn't that far off because he
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: was being told it was okay and he was getting
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: a little slap on the wrists. So I don't agree
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: with that reality part.
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not a big fan of what was the name,
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: doctor Langdon? Right, That's why I said the land Clinic,
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: Uh huh, Doctor, I am sorry. They cared more about
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: their own egos and later when we get to a
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: certain Hanson episode, you'll find that, Yeah, they were just
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: stocking bullshit now anyway, But doctor Parker also believed that
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: he harbored a deep seated desire for women, coupled with
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: a paralyzing fear that he couldn't relate to them. Hanson
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 2: was attempting to relive his frustrated acne scard high school years,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: which I do not believe. But he wasn't looking for
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: a promptate. He was looking for victims he could dominate
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: to heal his weak ego. He was capable of acting
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: on his sickest impulses, and he was fully aware of them.
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: That I do agree with most of that, I really do.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Betche Singleton wasn't a blind He was between a
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: rock and a hard place. He knew about the nineteenth
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: seventy five Jane Doe rape allegation, but because she was
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: a school teacher too terrified to testify, unfortunately, the charge
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: was legally invisible. Still sensing the darkness within Hanson, Singleton
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: sentence Hansen to five years in prison. He wanted Hansen
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: isolated in a way from society. He did what he could,
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: and I'll say this.
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: Both the judges that he had in seventy two and
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: this one they did what they could do. To be
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: quite honest, they did. The first judge was he had
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: to accept the plea deal because at that time in
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: Alaska law they were offering plea deals to everyone, and
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: his hands were tied. But he gave him five years.
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: This judge it too, remember that they sentenced him to
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 2: a time and what happened next they actually had no
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: control over or whatsoever. So the judges are actually one
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 2: of the few people of authority in this whole story
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: that I do give some leniency to because the first
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: one and this one saw him exactly for.
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they knew and they would have done more
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: if they could have.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: They probably would have done more if they could have,
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: if the fucking police would have done more than they
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 2: could have and actually gave a shit. I do believe
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: that if they could have brought other charges, had they
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 2: actually done their job, they could have put him away
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: for longer, making him not eligible for parole and things
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 2: like that. But the judges, I do not have actually
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: any complaints about any of the judges and what tied
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: their hands at the time that it did. They did
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 2: the max they could, so unfortunately that was just how
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: Alaska was at the time. Now anyway, so he's going
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: to prison for five years, y'all go.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, well last time he got yeah, listen
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: to prison.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: Before some justice being done for Robert Hanson. Now, while
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 2: though Robert Hanson was locked up because I think, don't
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: forget what story we're selling here, the streets of Anchorage
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 2: were safer, maybe not the safest, but still safer. But
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 2: Hanson wanted out, so he hired an appellate lawyer to
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 2: take his case straight to the Alaska Supreme Court. Now,
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: these judges, they don't get any reprief from me. And
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: he didn't just hire any attorney. No, his defense was
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: led by Edgar Paul Boyko, who was a former Alaska
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: State Attorney General, a man who knew the gears of
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: the system because he had helped build them. Now, I'll
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: be honest, I am very suspicious of this guy. I
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: imagine he must have caused a pretty penny. Could Hanson
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 2: even realistically afford him when it can a two hundred
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: dollar chains all?
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: Where did ans get the money?
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: Now? Lovely Amos did some extra research and uh, he's
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: a shady dude indeed, But yeah he's Yes, he's super shady.
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: But unfortunately I can't tell you the story about his
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 2: guy because he wouldn't make a lot of sense to you.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: But if you wanted to hear more about what happens
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: to Gary Zeiger after he's acquitted, you will hear more
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: about this guy.
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, Yeah, made his suit make him shit.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, he's not great. He's not great now. Unfortunately,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: though this whole story has me questioning literally each and
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: every man in any position of power. Hanson goes out
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: of his way to come across as like this meek,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 2: little cowardly nerd man, and yet he always has people
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: at a much higher society level going to bat for him,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: and that says a lot to me. It does so
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: that varies.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: Us this high powered representation a lot of Hansen to
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: frame his criminal history not as an escalating pattern of violence,
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: but guys as a series of manageable medical setbacks. Seriously,
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: Boyco successfully pivoted the conversation away from his victims and
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: towards the sentencing goals and rehabilitation.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll cost a pretty vinny is. Honestly, you're not
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: granted an appellate lawyer, really, especially for what he was
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: charged with.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: I sixth and A say, unless.
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: Dude, this guy was shady as fuck. It's okay, Hi, okay,
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: he knew exactly who he was hiring, so just delay.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: I still think Hanson had friends in high places, like
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: the insurance guy. Just connect the dots, people, Just connect
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: the dots.
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 2: On August eleventh, nineteen seventy eight, the Alaska Supreme Court
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: overturned Superior Court Judge James Case Singleton's five year sentence.
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: That's the right now. Judge Singleton, as I said, had
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: seen the truth. He noted, excuse me. He noted that
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 2: Hanson was a third time felon. There was the arson
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: in Iowa, the nineteen seventy one assault with a deadly
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: weapon in Anchorage for Susan Heppard, and the chainsaw larceny.
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 2: Singleton even argued that as a repeat offender, Hanson had
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: forfeited the leniency usually given to first timers. So like,
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: he wasn't coddling Hanson as far as I could understand
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 2: from the law at the time and his charges, and
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: he sentenced him appropriately, and I think it should have
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 2: been way more, but also that wouldn't have been appropriate.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: So however, the Supreme Court chose a different path. They
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: dismissed the chainsaw theft as a relatively non serious property offense.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: They gave Hanson extra credit for his stable employment at
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: the bakery and his solid family background, which was more
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 1: so at testament to his wife, Darla's unwitting role. It
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: is his greatest character witness. The Court had become enamored
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: with the idea of miraculous lithium, as if appeal could
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: curR a man who had already kidnapped and raped women
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: at gunpoint.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 2: I just lithium definitely does not cure, but.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: It was new. It was seen as a it's all bullshit.
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: I know, we just now, but we didn't know that
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: back then.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: In a move that quite frankly feels like a dark comedy,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 2: the court's desire to help Hanson actually pave the way
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: for his return to the hunt. His five year sentence
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: sent Hansen to the Juno Facility, which focused on vocational
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: training that he didn't really need since this is a
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: medical thing. Also, he owned a bankery, there was no
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 2: place for him there, and psychiatric help was also available.
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 2: Only available at the Eagle River Facility, which amos Lelarn
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: was a woman facility. But also that required a sentence
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 2: of two years or less. So even if it was
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 2: male female, it doesn't matter. It was two years or
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: less and his was five. So neither one of these
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: actually fit their decision.
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, there's no shenanigans. The leprechauns left yesterday.
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, the c ever lama is they're shenanigans.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: So by reducing his sentence to time served one year
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: to get him into treatment, the Supreme Court effectively handed
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: him another get out of jail card. They prioritize his
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 1: medical rehab over the physical safety of the women of Anchorage, Alaska.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Now, in their pursuit of a fair sentence,
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 2: the court ignored the blood on Hanson's hands. They failed
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 2: to mention the kidnapping of Susan Hepberd and the brutal
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: assault of Patty Roberts. To the Supreme Court of Alaska,
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 2: Hanson was just a thirty seven year old baker with
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: a shuddering problem in a shopping habits stealing to the streets.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 2: Though he was a predator who had just been told
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 2: by the highest court in the state of Alaska that
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: his actions weren't that serious. The Highest Court of Alaska.
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: Once again reaffirming. When Robert Hanson walked free in September
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, he didn't leave as a form de man.
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 1: He left as a con artist who had successfully duped
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: the Alaska Supreme Court. He had learned a very dangerous lesson.
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: As long as he maintained his solid family man facade
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: and stayed on his meds or pretended to, he was untouchable.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: He was no longer just a baker. He was a
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: man with a permission slip to continue his slide into
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: the macabre. They just built his confidence even more.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Now next time on True Cremen Winheim's Frozen
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 2: Fear The Butcher Baker of Alaska series we began in
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: October nineteen seventy nine when Robert Hanson, now a seasoned
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 2: aviator and a predator of habit, thinks he's found another
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 2: disposable dancer. Christy Hayes, a mother with everything to live for,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 2: isn't interested in his plan. We'll recount the chilling clauserphobic
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: standoff inside a moving camper where a simple date transformed
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: into a brutal fight for survival.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: As we wrap up The Silent Decade, we'll expose how
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: this single encounter forced Hansen to evolve, to install eyebolts
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: in his camper, to synchronize his crimes with his family's travel,
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: and to turn the vast Alaska sky into the ultimate
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: hiding place. Oh my God, join us next time for
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: part seven, The Silent Decade nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty.
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 1: Christy Hayes tries to break the silence.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: That's right, guys, gus, what surprise. He wasn't deterred by anything.
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: Aren't theys supposed to get better as time goes on,
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: Because it's not.
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. It doesn't get better. I mean, just know,
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: from this point on, he's supposed to have spent five years, okay,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: t nineteen seventy nine. Five years would make that nineteen eighty.
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: Four, but is five years previous? Yes?
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 2: Literally, If he would have spent the appropriate time he
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 2: was sentenced for both of those crimes, every single person
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 2: we've talked about would be alive, every single one, or
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 2: at least wouldn't have been victims of Robert Hanson. They
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: could have died otherwise I don't know, but they would
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 2: not have been murdered or disappeared.
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: Or assaulted, and they got away.
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 2: So yep, yeah, we haven't even gotten by the way,
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: in case you're wondering, we have not gotten to a
• 2:06:55
  Speaker 2: single murder that he claimed as his own. In case
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 2: you all are like, wait a second, No, nothing we've
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 2: mentioned in the last four shows has he ever claimed
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 2: any of the things we've talked about thus far. That's
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 2: not including the seventeen women that are literally about to die.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: So ohkad chab landy high five girl boom high five
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: for delicious dinner. Now we end this chapter not with justice, obviously,
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: but with a chilling realization that Robert Hansen didn't just
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 2: survive the nineteen seventies. He refined his methods under the
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: very noses of the men sworn to stop him, and
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 2: quite frankly given permission to like that they try putting
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: up a no killing zone signs you are so funny, savage, But.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think they tried that. That would have
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: been too much work.
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: It would have been too much work, but it could work.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: Who knows. Then they could have actually had a real
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 2: crime to charge him and put him in prison with
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 2: instead of you know, assaulting and women or whatever. Who
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 2: cares about that? And I'm just kidding now, when we
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: looked at the disappearances of Megan Emerick and Mary Kathleen
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: Phil we aren't just looking at cold cases. We're looking
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: at the ultimate victory of a predator over a system
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: that preferred order to the truth. The Seaward police looked
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: for a body, found nothing, and filed the paperwork away.
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: The Anchorage troopers looked for a monster like Gary Zeiger,
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: found a convenient target, and ignored the man who was
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 2: literally mapping his killing fields in his own home. It
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: is infuriating, infuriating, and very disappointing to realize that the
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: legal system of the nineteen seventies and again even today,
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: is often more efficient at prosecuting a shoplifting charge against
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 2: the corporate giant like Fred Meyers than it is at
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 2: protecting the lives of young women on the strip or
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: students at a skill center. The chainsaw incident reminds us
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: that the law only acted when a physical asset was
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: taken from a company, but when a daughter like Meighan
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: or ae A wife like Mary was taken, the law
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 2: was satisfied with no evidence of faublay or well, we
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: got nothing. Robert Hanson learned the most dangerous lesson a
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: serial killer could have ever hoped for. If you keep
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: your head down, provide a wholesome hobby like archery, and
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: pick your targets from the margins of society, you can
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 2: operate with near total impunity. And now, as we close
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: this episode, the final piece of his dark architecture has
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 2: fallen into place. He was grounded by the FAA for
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: his mental health, yet he bought a plane anyway. He
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: realized that the red Volvo station wagon was a liability,
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 2: but the open sky, the sky is a graveyard with
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 2: no witnesses. By nineteen seventy seven, the meek Baker was
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 2: no longer just walking the docks. He was claiming the
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: wilderness as his own. He had involved from a scavenger
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: into a hunter, and the vast, unmonitored bush of Alaska
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: was about to become his own private hunting preserve. He
• 2:11:01
  Speaker 2: had the map, he had the plane, and he had
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 2: the total, unwavering, justified belief that he was untouchable. And
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: the silent decade wasn't just the time of the quiet.
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: It was a rehearsal for the slaughter to come seventeen
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: lives to come out.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I think what makes this episode in
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: chapter of this so hard to sit with is all
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: of this was preventable, Like we said, if he would
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: have just been in prison for the time he was
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 1: supposed to write. But think about it, guys, so many
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: moments where somebody could have looked a little harder, pushed
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 1: a little further, maybe gave a shit. Maybe the rest
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: of this would have never happened, and we could stop
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: right here and we wouldn't have. However, many more episodes
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: we have, because by now, guys, this is not bad luck.
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: This is not a quinky dink. This is not a
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: man who slipped through the cracks one single time. This
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: is a man who cops in the legal system handed
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: him chance after chance after chance, while women paid the
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: price for it. This is the legal system that keeps
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 1: giving him more and more confidence. They didn't even stop
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: to care until a chainsaw, a physical object was taken.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 2: I can't even blame him for thinking that any of this.
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: No, I can't either.
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: He's absolutely in the right to think that he is untouchable.
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 4: They did it to themselves, the state of Alaska time
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 4: many and then when I think about making Mary and
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 4: Jane doe, that just enrages me even more and breaks
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 4: my heart because.
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 1: They didn't care. They cared about a fucking chainsaw. Excuse
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: my language again. And I will never understand why the
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: police didn't do their jobs. And I really really hate
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: Robert Anston and I really really hate Alaska. I don't
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: like Alaska. I don't know, and it's so beautiful there.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: It is it is. Now we're on episode six and
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: there's still a lot more to come, but I think
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: at this point you can see me more, you can
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: see why all of a sudden, we're like, okay, so
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have to tell the story before, the story
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: that everyone is familiar with, because that needs to be
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: talked to.
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 1: This needs I knew where were going. I didn't know
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: all of this, and that's what makes me mad. If
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: it would have been done right, we would never be
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: telling that. People wouldn't know that story. And the fact
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: that people told that story and didn't tell this story,
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: shame on them, agreed, Shame on them.
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: Because you know what they're doing they're giving the police
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: investigators that whole system a pass by not putting a
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 2: microscope onto them and a magnifying glass and being like, look,
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 2: and you know how we know they didn't do it
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: because they're still making the same fucking choices in twenty
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: twenty six, in twenty nineteen, all of that, it's still
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: the same thing is happening. So I know it's crazy,
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: Savage ch it's crazy.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: Now, before we go, if you liked our rants tonight, Okay,
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to say if you liked what you
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: heard because it's rough. But if you liked our rants
• 2:14:45
  Speaker 1: and you enjoyed hanging out, be sure to follow us
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: on our socials and subscribe to our YouTube channel. It's free.
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: I did not bump you from being on the sh
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: Oh why didn't you join us?
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: Shee family stuff, remember, okay?
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: And who told you they are more important than us?
• 2:15:11
  Speaker 1: We wouldn't be up to shenanigans right, Yes, the true
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: families always furst. But if you're listening on our pod,
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: please download give us a rating. All of that helps
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: us tremendously and getting our channel out there.
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we will be back with part seven of
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: our Frozen Fear the Butcher Baker of Alaska series tomorrow
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 2: Thursday at apm Eastern on YouTube. I just realized I
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: keep saying that, and the pod people may not quite
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 2: understand that I'm talking about on YouTube when we go
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 2: to record it. So if you haven't yet, hit the
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: subscribe button and the notification bell so you don't miss
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: when we go live. We will be wrapping up the
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: seventies of this story, so you do not want to
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: miss it. So is there anything else you would like
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: to say? Terry?
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 1: Iow, my liver can handle another two weeks in Alaska.
• 2:16:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be honest, I'm not sure my liver
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: can handle it, and I'm not sure yours can't either, because, guys,
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: it doesn't even get a fraction better.
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I'll say this, there does come a certain point
• 2:16:25
  Speaker 2: when somebody find when they have no choice. Honestly, it
• 2:16:28
  Speaker 2: is when there's no choice.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: Still, you're still a long wait for that.
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: We are. Yeah, it's awful.
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 1: So yeah, just people, if you see something, say something,
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 1: stay safe.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: And not just say something. If somebody is not doing
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 2: something about something, say it louder louder demands they do
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: something about it. You have a voice for those the
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 2: system does not respect.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because guess what, guys, it's not the seventies. It's
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: not back in the seventies when this was happening, which
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: I just recently learned, women could not get credit cards
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: in their name without their husband's girl, you didn't know that, Yeah,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: So why would they have listened to women back then?
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 2: Exactly?
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: And now we are loud and we can all get
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: together and we can all say something right.
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 2: And before you, oh, you guys are such feminist feminist,
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: yes we are. But also if you don't know what
• 2:17:35
  Speaker 2: we're talking about. With Alaska, there was a recent serial
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: killer in the last several years and guess what, literally
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: the same things. It's literally a copy and paste and
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: it was unbelievable of Alaska.
• 2:17:51
  Speaker 1: Annie, thank you savage.
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: Well, let's not be to us. I know, a silly
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: woman in our hormone thoughts.
• 2:18:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we wouldn't have just watched that documentary
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: this weekend, I would have a lot more grace thinking
• 2:18:08
  Speaker 1: they learned from there. You would.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to tell you after watching that, I'm like, nope,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: I'm done right.
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: I was like, Terry, let me write fourteen parts to
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 2: hold Alaska, to stay. We're going to burn them.
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: Alive of working me because guess what they learned from
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties.
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: Damn right, No, but you know what, we're doing our
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: best to try to make sure that these stories are
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: told and that it is in the forefront where they
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 2: should be. But you want to sign off for tonight?
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: Did you already do that? I'm sorry, I'm like three
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: drinks and stay safe. Yep, you did something safe. You
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: did well. On that note, everybody, stay safe until next time.
• 2:18:52
  Speaker 2: Go forth and be amazing, all.
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 3: Right, don't to do anything a