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How Do We Read the Bible? · The Rhett Palmer Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we're back with biblical scholar Mike Bagby.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Rhett, and the title of our show is Unlocking Truths in the Bible.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And unlocking the Bible.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh great to have you here again.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh what's our subject matter today, Mike Bagby?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Just thinking about Rhett, how we read the Bible.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you open um you open the book of uh John and you read this uh story about Jesus, and then suddenly uh you see a reference to uh a psalm, and so you go back and now you're reading uh a lyrical poetic book.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what does this have to do with that?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh the next thing you look, you're reading uh um something from the uh Torah, which is uh uh laws and legal code, and and uh and then the next thing you're reading is a letter from Paul to some of his friends in Corinth.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um the way that you read these things is different.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um poetry.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: You are my sunshine.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lyrical image that tells your lover that she lights up your life.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's literally not the sunshine, but it's an image.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when you read history, you have facts.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: How do you determine?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you read the Bible, and what what you realize what I realize in the Bible, it's 66 books of a library, all written by maybe 39 or 40 different people across a 1500-year time span in three different languages, and in a c culture that's vastly different from ours.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so what do we do with that?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think one of the first things is is that we remember that we're reading different types of literature.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um for example, we have uh a lot of biography.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have uh Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that are writing uh their biographies of Jesus.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um you notice uh they they're all different.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew is a Jew, and he's writing to a Jewish audience, so when we read Matthew, we read a lot of prophecies that Jew that uh Jews would understand, and Matthew is trying to reach his Jewish audience by bringing them in.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Mark is writing to a different audience.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's probably in Rome uh with Peter.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: He may be uh somewhere along the coast of the Mediterranean coast in another Roman, Greco-Roman city.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So uh what is his culture that he's trying to read?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's Roman culture.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And in uh Roman culture, the ideal person was a man of action, that leader that took action and did things.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so you notice in uh Matthew begins with this long narrative of Jesus' genealogy, that yes, Jesus was descended from King David, as the prophet says.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but that's important to a Jew.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really important to us as Gentiles, as readers 2000, but it was to them.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it was prophesied that the Messiah would come through the lineage of David, and both Joseph and Mary, irrefutable, came from the lineage of so Matthew's writing to his audience, but Mark's writing to a different audience.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: And his is a Roman audience where a man of action is the ideal figure.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: He skips the uh the genealogy, he skips the birth, and Jesus just hits the ground running and starts doing amazing things.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the word immediately, I believe, is used over 30 times in Mark's gospel.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's used 11 times in chapter 1.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately, Jesus is doing this.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately, immediately.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, remember, we see Mark describing himself at the end of his gospel as that young man that was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and when the soldiers grabbed him, he slipped out of his clothes and ran off naked.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, he's the naked uh disciple.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh later, of course, Mark uh joins up with Paul and his uncle Barnabas and they go on that mission trip.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't go well for Mark on that one.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Mark is later with Peter, and from uh the writings of Eusebius and other early church leaders, we know that Mark got most of his information about Jesus from Peter.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually Peter's gospel.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have a scene where Jesus is teaching at the uh synagogue in Capernaum, and then he comes over and heals uh Peter's mother-in-law, and Mark describes there's so many people that start coming to Peter's house, there's not even room by the door.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, who would know that detail?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's not even room on the door.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then later, when they're going across the sea and there's a uh storm coming up and Jesus is asleep, he's not just asleep on the back, his head is on a cushion, says Mark.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Only somebody in the boat would know that.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So Mark's information, a lot of it is coming from Peter.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: So read it with that in mind that it's uh Peter.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Luke tells us a story of Jesus, and he starts off by saying, I'm going to, you've heard many, oh, Theophilus, you have heard uh stories of Jesus.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm going to put it in consecutive order for you.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, Luke was a Greek.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's a logical thinker.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And a doctor.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And a doctor.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: So now he's going to tell us about Jesus' experience on earth in a logical.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So he starts off with a genealogy.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then he starts off with John the Baptist's parents and gives us the entire story of the birth and just continues that.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So Luke is is um is telling us what Jesus said and what he did.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Mark's telling us what Jesus did.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew's telling us pretty much what he said.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Matthew's not really interested in order of events and chronology.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to get us from one sermon to the next.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of red letter in uh John presents Jesus as the Lagos, the wisdom and creative active force of God.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning was the Lagos, and the Lagos was the word, was uh was with God and was God.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was there in the beginning, okay?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: In John's time, the Lagos uh was a uh concept known among Greek philosophers of uh that creative force that caused creation to happen, the the embodiment of the wisdom and the character.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so in Greek culture, this concept of logos was that unknown thing that caused this all to happen in a way that all made sense, even though it doesn't make sense to us sometimes.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And John is saying he is the Lagos.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now John was probably writing this gospel while he was in Ephesus, where he was involved in uh pastoring that church, and his audience was a mixture of Jews and Greeks.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um John is wanting to reach both of those audiences.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Jews and Greeks think differently.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, remember Paul writes that uh to his friends in Corinth that Jews search for signs and Greeks search for wisdom.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that they that Jews and uh Greeks think is different.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: For example, like your coffee cup there, Red.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you hold up that coffee cup and you ask a Jew, uh a Greek to describe it, he'd describe it like we would.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: We would say, it's white, porcelain, it's cylindrical, it has a curved handle, and so we're getting a formed description of it.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But if I was a biblical Jew, my description would be with that I can drink my coffee.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're functional thinkers.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Practicality.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Functional thinkers.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So John now is describing Jesus in form.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: I am the good shepherd, I am the door, I am the resurrection, I'm the way, the truth, and the life.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So all of his Greek thinking uh audience is going to get a picture.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's the door.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's the way to God.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's the good shepherd, he's the one that's going to care for me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, he is the way.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: He is the manner in which I'm to walk.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's the truth, he's what I'm to live by, he's the life, he's the one that gives me my breath.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So these are all form pictures that John is giving his audience.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the resurrection.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a big picture.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, we're getting those, we get the seven I ams that Jesus says in the book of John, but we also get the seven I do's.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh He heals, he turns water into wine.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's his first miracle.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is what he does.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't remember anything else about the life of Jesus and his personality, John tells us right from the beginning, Jesus loves a good party.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: He loves a good celebration.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Please remember that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Please, because this thing of relationship with God should be something that should provoke much joy in us.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been a number of religious movements that have not been joyful.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's been quite the opposite.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, when the Mayflower came over and the Puritans, the pilgrims, after their uh winter where the uh winter was harsh and uh almost half of them died, and then this Indian comes walking out of the woods the next spring, and he's a guy that was taken by English um fishermen back to England, spent some years, went to Spain, eventually made it back to North America, comes back to his community, they're gone.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And he sees these English people, and he walks up, and what's the first thing that he says to them in English?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any beer?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they say, Of course we do.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you see the manifest of the uh uh Mayflower, they brought many barrels of rum, beer, and other stuff.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: But that was too that was to purify the water, wasn't it?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: They gave squanto they gave Squanto a beer, and he was happy to have a beer.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you just gotta have a beer.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But the see, the idea that Jesus did drink wine, he he turned water into wine.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was told uh uh by some Christians that that was an alcoholic beverage, but my living in Israel and and understanding biblical culture, very obviously it was uh an alcoholic drink.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the Bible says that God has given uh Psalm 104, God gives man the uh the uh the vine and the grapes as a gift from God.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fermentation is actually good for you.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: To make his heart glad.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: He gives you the wine that makes your heart glad.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, there's so many prohibitions as to drunkenness and overuse.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so Jesus' first miracle turns water into wine.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Next miracle, he he uh heals the royal official's son who walks up the Cana.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus heals him at a distance, okay?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: He feeds the 5,000, he he walks on water, he raises Lazarus from the dead, he heals the paralytic, he restores sight to the blind man in chapter 9.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's doing these miracles, and John now is giving the seven I do's along with the seven I ams, because he's trying to reach both audiences.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're reading the gospels, just understand he's reading to different audiences and he's going to tell us things that are going to uh make sense to that audience.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Fortunately, we have uh four different biographies of Jesus.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It would be like uh four photographers uh being assigned to photograph an event, yeah, and they're all gonna come up with different uh perspectives and different pictures that they take, which makes uh reading the gospels uh just a pleasure because we get all these details from these different guys, some of that were eyewitnesses, um like uh John and Matthew.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Mark got a lot of his information from Peter, and then Luke obviously was talking to Mary and talking to Lazarus and talking to these people, because he makes statements like, and Mary treasured these things in her heart.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: How would he know that unless he actually spoke to Mary?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um so reading the biographical section of the Bible, we read it very differently than say we read uh letters to uh friends, you know, Paul and Peter and John and James and Jude, they write letters.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: And as we read the letters, the first thing we have to ask the question is, why are they writing the letter?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: What was going on that caused them to write this letter?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And in uh Paul's case, like the letter he wrote to the Corinthians, there was obviously some problems going on there.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: And when Paul wrote his letter to those at Philippi, uh there was obviously some things that they were thinking and doing that was causing their spiritual growth to be hindered.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: When he wrote his letter to the those at Thessaloniki, he wanted to let them know how great their encouragement, uh uh the fact that their their testimony had gone all over uh the Greece, and they had become witnesses, and he also wanted to let them know how he discipled them so that they would know how to disciple others.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's chapter uh one, two, and three.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um ask yourself the question, why is Paul writing the letter?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then things start making sense.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's another type of literature in the Bible called Lamentations, and these are uh part of the Psalms, they're uh the book of Lamentations, the book of Habakkuk, and you notice how Habakkuk starts off, he's really railing against God for allowing all this injustice to happen.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And God says, Okay, you're right, and now I'm gonna send my solution.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be the Assyrians, they're gonna come down and punish you all.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: God, you can't do that.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a back and forth dialogue between Habakkuk and God.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, Habakkuk goes, Okay, you are God, you know what you're doing, so even if there's no cattle on the fields, there's no uh grapes on the vine, there's no wheat in the fields, still I will worship you.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is sort of the uh uh God changing your mind in the midst, but you get the permission and the opportunity to express your minds.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's wisdom literature that uh is another type.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh these are Proverbs, Ecclesiastes.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've been reading Proverbs pretty much I read the chapter of the day every day for the last, I've been doing this for the last uh 40 years, 35, 40 years of my life.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm finally starting to get some of the wisdom from the book of Proverbs.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: 31?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: 31 chapters.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: 31 chapters.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like consider the ant, thou sluggard, though it has not an overseer.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It works day and night.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: A little folding of the hands, a little extra sleep, and poverty will come upon you.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's so much specific information given.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And uh Book of Proverbs was written as the instruction book for a young man.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: A soft answer turneth away wrath.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: One time I re I read that in Proverbs, and a man came up yelling at me, and because of that I let him yell.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: He vented.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had recommended somebody for him to buy carpet from, and he didn't like the carpet or the man.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I let him yell at me because I did make the introduction.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I've, you know, if if someone's yelling at you and you just let them vent and you don't return angry words for anger, they're the the wind comes out of their sails, and they just have to either stand there like an idiot screaming, or they're gonna calm down and they're gonna calm down.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of my favorite proverbs is 17-14, where the beginning of strife is like letting out water.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: So abandon the coral even before it begins.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Don't even respond to that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, I never read that before.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was good.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: He who restrains his word has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's 1727.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So uh there's a lot of wisdom that's given, and it's uh general wisdom.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he's old, he will not depart from it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's 22-6.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have raised our kids, and it seems like uh when they become teenagers, it's very easy for them to depart from the path that we have taught them.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Did some of your children go their own way for a while?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: We all do.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the uh as you actually read this, train up a child, it uses a word uh train up that actually uh refers to the palate of your mouth.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the the thought could be um give your child a taste for the word of God.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Train up.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's the same uh word uh that's used for uh a portion of your mouth, okay?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: That if we train him up according to his bent in the way he should go, the literally it's according to his bend, that all children are different, and I have four, and they're all different.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Train up a child in the way that they're bent.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have a one very logical daughter that's very straightforward, and she'll tell you how it is.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I have a son that uh pretty much um thinks a lot, and when he speaks, he speaks with a lot of wisdom.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have an another daughter that is very logical but very emotional, and she'll cry at the drop of a hat.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, they're all different.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's my kind of person.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're all different.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So train them up in according to their bent, and this is not a guarantee, because we've seen so many people, well, their kids walking away from church, but even when he is old, he will not depart from it.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a truism.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is a um you give them seeds, plant seeds in them, and let them go through life experiences where they're gonna have to make a choice, which we all do.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I was in my I was thirty when I made my choice.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how old you were.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Twenty-nine.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um twenty-nine, yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we had time where we were just figuring it out on our own, you know.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the wisdom literature is addressing these things, and they're more general statements.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: The poetry.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Poetry is such a good expression.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these images that we get.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about Psalms now, or yeah, the Psalms part of Exodus, uh, judges, 2 Samuel.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the heavens are declaring the glory of God.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Their expanse is declaring the work of his hands.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, obviously, we don't hear words coming out of the sunrise or sunset, but they're still speaking to us, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: So this is all of creation shouts the colour of the lyric imagery that is coming out, and and it's it's a beautiful way, but we understand it and we read it in a different way.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I remember the color purple and uh the beginning of the movie, uh, I don't know if it was Whoopi Goldberg or whoever was playing the lead, and the field of purple flowers, and uh and she says something about how all the flowers are just reaching out to say, love me or I love you, or one or the other, I forget which it was.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you look at creation that way, you go, wow, it's just it's simply astounding.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Psalm nineteen goes on to say the law of the Lord is perfect, restoring the soul.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: The testimony.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: The precepts of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is all imagery here.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's it's language that touches our soul.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: The awesomeness of the Lord is clean, enduring forever.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: The judgments of the Lord are true.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: They are righteous altogether.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're more desirable than gold, yes, much fine gold, sweeter than the honey, and the drippings of the honey.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: These are in Psalms.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is Psalm 19.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: It starts off with the heavens declaring the glory of God, and then talking about these images of what the laws, God's words do for you.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great uh, it has great impact on my spirit, on my soul.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's prophetic works.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh these are uh writings of uh coming judgment.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we read them, uh the major prophets in the Old Testament, uh Jeremiah, uh Isaiah, Daniel, Ezekiel.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we read the minor prophets, Habakkuk, Zechariah, Zephaniah, Haggai, Malachi, uh Hosea.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they considered minor?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the books are shorter.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're just shorter.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the prophets were often the ones who spoke out for the dispossessed.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you had a king with his court and the rich people, and then there were those that were the on the margins.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Prophets were always speaking about injustice.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: They were they were encouraging the kings to get back to walking with God rather than just doing what they uh want to do.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, exposing sin, making political commentaries.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the midst of that, you you you see uh an understanding of God's heart, you see his principles for living, like a prophet like Micah, who's making observations on the current life that he sees and what's going on in the kingdom, and he says something as profound as, what shall I come to the Lord?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: With what?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Shall I bow myself before the Lord on high?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is what all the religious activity.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Shall I come with him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is what all the religious people were doing.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Does the Lord take delight in thousands of rams and ten thousand rivers of oil?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: He has told you, O man, what is good.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So there is so much gold nuggets, so many gold nuggets as you read these prophetic works.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, some of them are addressing specific situations of the time of the prophets, but we get so much of the heart of God that's expressed uh through these prophetic works.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you walk humbly with your God, how come some people uh you know, when I I interviewed Billy Graham, one thing that stuck out was he's probably the humblest man I ever met, very loving, very kind.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I often, I mean, I recognized that before I even met him, and I wondered that guy had more humility at twenty one, twenty-two years of age than I do at 72.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Where where did he get?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: How does that happen?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Was there some sort of a trauma that humbled him, or are some people just not maybe I don't know, maybe maybe some of us get defensive because of circumstances in our youth, and we build walls that are that people misconstrue as being arrogance, but it's really our protective walls, which comes off, you're not gonna hurt me, you know.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh just like I remember being spanked as a child, and I went, Oh, that was okay.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't hurt you, I didn't cry.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the guy who's giving me the spanking goes, uh, do you want to be spanked again?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, shut up.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, what do you think of all that?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I uh and I've never met Billy.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I never met him, even though he used to come and live at the Holiday Inn here in Vero Beach, and then he lived at a house up on Indian uh Jungle Trail.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And my aunt and uncle actually rented that house for a period.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but you know, Billy was uh a Vero Beach uh resident, and he would come here just to uh basically get away and rejuvenate and spend time with the Lord.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he never pointed the finger j judging people.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was always we, we, we.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the one thing Bill Clinton said when he was his darkest hour, and I was actually praying for him, saying he's getting the whole world's on his case, you know, this whole Lewinsky thing.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: I said he's got to be considering suicide, you would think.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, he later on I would hear that he said Billy Graham flew in to see me, and he didn't speak at me, he spoke with me.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure uh what happened in Billy's life.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know he got touched by God at a very early age.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was 16.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: He gave himself to the purposes of God.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: He walked out his life in a very uh disciplined manner.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: He preached to the cows, he said, when he was a kid.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he was he was probably the most effective guy of our time of uh reaching the world.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: But that humility drew people like a magnet.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not arrogance, not yelling at people.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Even with the book of Samuel says, Thy gentleness hath made thee great.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Book of Psalms, thy gentleness hath made thee great.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now he did speak with authority, it is written, you know, and we sin and like that, but that's not exactly yelling.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say so?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he was never a yeller, he was always uh talking with you.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think the last uh type of literature that we find in the Bible is uh legal code and covenant treaty.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: We see this in Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers and Deuteronomy.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know that's this is probably some of the most difficult um scripture to uh really read and understand.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: But uh and we can talk about this later, because uh obviously uh this Jesus referred to the law and Paul refers to the law.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um but um to me when I'm reading a passage of scripture that's from these books, I have to ask myself um what's the behavior that's uh being addressed here?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: What are the consequences uh that are happening?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: What's God's chief concern in this issue?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what is God's heart uh what part of his heart is displayed in this passage and and what's the principle behind the cultural practices that are uh being prescribed?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh God was bringing his people out of an Egyptian culture where they had been there for generations, and he was bringing them into a Canaanite culture, and he keep he kept saying to them, Do not mix my culture with their culture.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um He gives them many object lessons to this point.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh don't uh plant a field with uh different uh seeds, don't uh uh hitch uh two different animals to your plough, don't wear a shirt of uh mix of uh wool and linen.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you know, these seem very uh uh arbitrary and making no sense, but in the context of don't mixing my culture with their culture, it makes all the sense.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: God had a plan, uh has a plan for uh humanity having a family unit of father, mother, husband, wife, uh children, and he wants to really protect that family unit.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So um we we can talk about this later because Jesus refers to the law often.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: But these are the seven different types of uh literature that you find in the Bible.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: The Bible's a great library, it's got 66 books, and uh depending if it's a book of poetry or a book of history or a book of wisdom or a book of legal code, you read it uh differently.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you expound on some of these in your book, The Vision Behind the Verses by Michael Bagby, available on Amazon.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: The Vision Behind the Verses by Michael Bagby, and uh volume three of a three-part series I hold in my hand right now, Things That Really Matter.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's again the name is Michael Bagby, and uh been a missionary for how many years?
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Since 84.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Almost is that 40 years, whatever, 41 years?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a long time ago.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who would ever imagine?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, my hope, uh, Rhett, is that uh we can communicate just some basic concepts and tools that would help people open the Bible with an excitement that God is going to uh um his presence will be real and he will be explaining things to you.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a key ingredient is having the Holy Spirit guiding you.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: And even when uh in my pre uh uh uh relationship with Jesus days, I would read the scriptures and I knew they were su I knew it was special.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Before you even knew him.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Before I knew him, and I think I knew there was something, I knew there was a reason why this book was around.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think we in earnest we know subconsciously.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: I can remember when I was a youngster in my teens, and I had a horrible nightmare.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And in the dream, I turned and started saying, My friend had died on a train at 14, I guess I was 14 and 16, whatever it was.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, I started going, The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: He maketh me to lie down.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: And as soon as I started saying the word of God, the evil left.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how would I know that as an unbeliever in my teens and would not come to know Jesus till I was 29?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, and the the truth is written on our hearts, you know.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's was tapping you on the shoulder then and letting you know that he's real and that his words uh are powerful ones.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I had the a similar experience.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I uh I hope that our conversations will inspire people to pick up the word of God, to open it, to place themselves in the room.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what you know what else is good is that we're not preaching at people.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about preaching.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: We are uh uh two sons of God having communicating what we've learned.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We were in the darkness, we found the light, or and he chose us, and having a good conversation.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think that's pretty rare.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um but good.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very common among uh followers of Jesus.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think about broadcasting.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've no too many broadcasts, most of them are preachy, you know.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um we're nobody special.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, we're not.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: But it I think it's palatable this way.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, some people might take offense.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like me, I don't like to be yelled at.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: So no yelling around here now.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right, well till the next time.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Till the next time and unlocking the truths in the Bible.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Rhett Palmer with Michael Bagby.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Blessed are those who put their trust in the Lord.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Aloha.