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Crib Sheet (Featuring Jersey Banks of The Urban Cowboy) · Other Peoples Parenting

• 0:00
  Hello, everyone.
• 0:01
  Welcome back to another episode of Other People's Parenting, where we read parenting books and review them for you.
• 0:06
  I'm Skylar Hurwitz, amateur parent, and this is my mom, Karen Quinn, New York Times bestselling author and founder of Habit Coach and Testing Mom.
• 0:14
  And today we are joined by a guest, my friend, Jersey Banks, co founder of the Urban Cowboy Lodge and hotels and so many other things.
• 0:25
  Hello, Jers.
• 0:26
  Hi.
• 0:27
  Welcome.
• 0:27
  Jersey is also a mom, so she's been invited on our POD to talk about mom stuff.
• 0:33
  Yes.
• 0:34
  And you read the book?
• 0:35
  And I read the book, yes.
• 0:36
  Okay.
• 0:37
  Which was interesting because my child is about to be sick.
• 0:40
  So going back and reading all the data was like a nice comparison to what I actually did.
• 0:49
  What should I do?
• 0:50
  What should I have done?
• 0:51
  Yeah.
• 0:52
  Today we're going to be covering Emily Oster's crib sheet.
• 0:56
  Crib sheet.
• 0:58
  Get it, get it.
• 1:02
  And I love.
• 1:02
  I love Emily Oster.
• 1:04
  The first book I read when I got pregnant was Expecting Better because I was like, it's kind of a riff on what to expect when you're expecting, which was the classic, I think probably when you were pregnant.
• 1:15
  Yes, it was.
• 1:16
  Yeah.
• 1:17
  But when I.
• 1:17
  100 years ago.
• 1:18
  Oh, no.
• 1:18
  Well, that would make you really old.
• 1:20
  That would make me 100.
• 1:21
  No.
• 1:21
  Which I'm not.
• 1:22
  You're not.
• 1:23
  Okay.
• 1:24
  Whatever.
• 1:24
  Years ago.
• 1:25
  Long time ago, though.
• 1:26
  Yeah.
• 1:27
  That was three years ago.
• 1:28
  Right when I was born.
• 1:31
  But what's nice about it is she talks about a lot of the common misconceptions about pregnancy and child rearing.
• 1:41
  And.
• 1:41
  And she just says, listen, here are all the studies that the other books cite.
• 1:45
  I'm gonna go in.
• 1:46
  I'm gonna interpret this data for you as an economist, as somebody who understands how to read this and gives you an idea of whether the study was well conducted or.
• 1:57
  Or flawed, and if so, how is it flawed?
• 1:59
  How does that affect the outcome of this data, which I loved?
• 2:03
  Teen, care to give us the macro?
• 2:06
  Oh, the macro.
• 2:07
  Okay, I'm gonna give you the macro.
• 2:08
  That's my job.
• 2:09
  Okay.
• 2:10
  So, yes, you introduced the whole idea, which is.
• 2:14
  Emily is a economics professor at the University of Chicago, and she has spent her life looking at research studies and data, and she evaluates the quality of the information and the conclus of studies.
• 2:30
  So she's taken all of that training and applied it to everything we know, I guess, about or hear about raising children.
• 2:41
  And it's so interesting because, you know, there's so many things that you're told, and, you know, it's like oh, studies say.
• 2:47
  And they've been saying the same thing for so many years.
• 2:50
  Whose studies?
• 2:51
  Right.
• 2:51
  Which studies?
• 2:52
  Exactly.
• 2:52
  She goes back to the studies and she looks at the data and she tells you, well, you can trust this or you can't trust that.
• 3:00
  And her training as an economist, they talk about the fact that she's able to tease causality out of data, so that helps her separate the good studies from the bad studies.
• 3:15
  So, for example, if you find out there's a relationship between two things and you dig deeper, they may not be related at all.
• 3:24
  Like, for example, people who eat Clif Bars are healthier than the general population.
• 3:31
  It's not because they eat Clif Bars.
• 3:33
  It's because they do many things.
• 3:35
  They exercise.
• 3:37
  They do lots of things.
• 3:38
  And so she gets to the bottom of all the research.
• 3:41
  And so this book is.
• 3:44
  Crib Sheets is about the first three years of parenting.
• 3:49
  That's more the focus is the first three years, the one expecting better that you read first.
• 3:54
  That's just pregnancy.
• 3:56
  Yeah, pregnancy.
• 3:57
  And I think, like, the first three months or something.
• 4:00
  Exactly.
• 4:00
  Yeah.
• 4:02
  And what she does here is she'll talk about things like breastfeeding, vaccinations, swaddling, tantrums, all of those things.
• 4:09
  And she gives you all the data, and then she says, now you decide.
• 4:14
  And one of the big things, I'll just get this out of the way at the beginning.
• 4:20
  She talks about three kinds of studies and which ones you can rely on.
• 4:25
  So studies that are randomized control studies.
• 4:28
  That's the gold standard.
• 4:30
  So they take two groups of randomly selected people who are essentially equal and they compare them.
• 4:37
  And if you can ever find a study like that.
• 4:39
  Those are hard, they're expensive, they don't always do them, but if you can find one, it's usually a good study.
• 4:45
  You can rely on what they say.
• 4:48
  There's less bias associated with studies like that.
• 4:51
  Exactly.
• 4:52
  Less theory.
• 4:53
  Yeah.
• 4:54
  Observations, hard data that you can rely on.
• 4:57
  If they tell you, yes, it was a randomized control study.
• 5:01
  This is as scientific as I'm gonna get.
• 5:04
  Observational.
• 5:05
  We hate science.
• 5:06
  On this podcast, we do.
• 5:07
  And there is a lot of science in it.
• 5:10
  But we don't hate science.
• 5:11
  We just find it tedious.
• 5:12
  Our eyes glaze over when we get.
• 5:14
  Into, she did it for you.
• 5:16
  Yes.
• 5:19
  If there was any to begin with.
• 5:20
  Yes.
• 5:21
  She tells us, you know, all the things, all the wives tales, all the.
• 5:25
  The things she tells us is, is it real?
• 5:27
  Is it not?
• 5:28
  And then.
• 5:28
  Then there's observational studies.
• 5:30
  That's the second best.
• 5:33
  So for example, they might compare children who were breastfed with those who weren't.
• 5:37
  But the participants in the study were not randomly assigned to groups.
• 5:42
  This is what most studies are.
• 5:44
  Yeah.
• 5:45
  Observational.
• 5:46
  And then the third kind is case control studies.
• 5:51
  And what this is, is they use it to study rare outcomes.
• 5:55
  So they said,.
• 5:58
  Thank you.
• 5:59
  They said, okay, for example, if you want to understand kids who learn to read before the age of three, that's a very rare outcome.
• 6:08
  So what they do is they'll.
• 6:10
  They'll.
• 6:10
  They'll study those kids that did learn to read by the age of three, and then they'll try to find other kids that are kind of similar and ask their parents, what did you do?
• 6:20
  Yeah.
• 6:20
  Of all three kids that taught themselves how to read.
• 6:22
  Right.
• 6:24
  And these are small studies, and they often lead to poor conclusions.
• 6:28
  So that's it.
• 6:29
  Those are the three kinds of studies.
• 6:31
  And, you know, and the rest of it, as we.
• 6:35
  As we go through the book and talk about some of the different kind, you know, topics, that's what she does.
• 6:41
  It's like, here's the topic, here's the study, here's the answer.
• 6:46
  Or according to the research, you can rely on it.
• 6:49
  You can't.
• 6:51
  And you decide.
• 6:53
  That's the book.
• 6:54
  Yeah.
• 6:54
  Choose your own adventure.
• 6:57
  Right.
• 6:57
  Right.
• 6:57
  But we can go through more.
• 6:59
  But I just wanted to give you the big picture.
• 7:01
  Yeah.
• 7:03
  Give us the science.
• 7:04
  Give us the science team.
• 7:05
  That's a scientific.
• 7:07
  She starts talking about newborn bath.
• 7:10
  So if you've ever had a baby, you know, whether it's a C section or whatever kind of delivery you've had, they come out with, like, this white, texturey stuff on them.
• 7:19
  It's called Vernix.
• 7:20
  And there's no medical reason that that needs to get washed off right away.
• 7:26
  In fact, they say actually there are a lot of benefits to just letting the baby be.
• 7:32
  Yeah.
• 7:32
  You know, don't hose them down at the hospital.
• 7:35
  Give them a week.
• 7:37
  And that's what I did.
• 7:38
  I don't know about you.
• 7:39
  I did.
• 7:39
  I was like.
• 7:40
  I waited.
• 7:40
  This is easy.
• 7:41
  Oh, my God.
• 7:41
  And I thought.
• 7:42
  Because I was scared.
• 7:43
  Really.
• 7:44
  I think it's disgusting.
• 7:46
  Yes.
• 7:47
  They bathed you immediately when you were born.
• 7:50
  Mom, clean her up.
• 7:51
  Yeah.
• 7:51
  Oh, my God.
• 7:53
  Clean.
• 7:53
  I'm just.
• 7:54
  I was shocked when I read that.
• 7:55
  I was like, really?
• 7:58
  I don't even know what was happening to you.
• 7:59
  When I was born, you had had a terrible laborer.
• 8:03
  Oh, yeah.
• 8:03
  Well, I had a C section after,.
• 8:05
  Like, two days of laboring.
• 8:07
  Oh, my God.
• 8:08
  I know.
• 8:08
  Yeah.
• 8:09
  And I was in Terrible pain.
• 8:11
  I think the drugs wore off, and I was screaming for drugs.
• 8:15
  It was very bad.
• 8:16
  It was very bad.
• 8:17
  But all in the range of normal, I guess.
• 8:20
  I don't know.
• 8:21
  But I do know they washed her before they gave her to me.
• 8:24
  Then they tried to give her to me, but at that point they had drugged me.
• 8:28
  And I was like, just, I'll do it later.
• 8:31
  I know I'm supposed to bond, send her back.
• 8:33
  Were you prepared for her to be covered in goo, or was that, like, a shock to you?
• 8:39
  Expected it.
• 8:39
  But you know what.
• 8:40
  But what happened to me, unfortunately, was, you know, I did have the C section, and then they flooded me with drugs because I had been in so much pain.
• 8:49
  Yeah.
• 8:50
  By then.
• 8:50
  And so it wasn't.
• 8:53
  I mean, because it was.
• 8:54
  I could feel.
• 8:55
  I mean, the incision.
• 8:56
  I mean, it was everything.
• 8:57
  It was very painful.
• 8:58
  Oh, my God.
• 8:58
  It was not good.
• 8:59
  But that was.
• 9:00
  They're much better about C sections today,.
• 9:02
  But definitely can confirm.
• 9:05
  Yes.
• 9:05
  Yeah, she had a good one.
• 9:07
  Yeah.
• 9:08
  20 minutes.
• 9:09
  No, but.
• 9:10
  But see, now Emily says the data doesn't support.
• 9:14
  Okay, you guys both wanted to keep the stuff on.
• 9:17
  Yeah, it was like Vernix or something.
• 9:20
  Okay.
• 9:20
  You wanted to keep it on.
• 9:21
  So Emily says the data doesn't support it.
• 9:25
  However, she waited two weeks to give her baby a bath.
• 9:28
  I think I waited two weeks.
• 9:29
  How long did you wait?
• 9:30
  I feel like we waited a few days, but I left.
• 9:33
  So I did a birthing center and I left the hospital like, she was born, like, just after midnight.
• 9:39
  And then I left the hospital, like, the next day, basically because you could only be there for so long or it wasn't even a hospital.
• 9:45
  It was a birthing center.
• 9:46
  Right.
• 9:47
  And then I came back for the 48 hour checkup.
• 9:51
  And then I think we bathed, like, a couple days after that.
• 9:55
  But it was kind of like a.
• 9:57
  It was like a.
• 9:58
  We were just waiting to be comfortable enough to, like, do it because there was, like, all this concern around, like, the belly button and, like, the.
• 10:04
  I was terrified.
• 10:06
  They were like, if you get water in your baby's belly button, you need to call a medevac.
• 10:14
  You need to get to the.
• 10:15
  I was like, what happens?
• 10:16
  Like, she could drown.
• 10:18
  I'm like, that can't be true.
• 10:19
  That can't possibly be true.
• 10:21
  What were cave people doing?
• 10:23
  How did we, as a species make it this far?
• 10:26
  Yeah.
• 10:27
  It does not make sense.
• 10:28
  It doesn't.
• 10:29
  They probably weren't living that close to water.
• 10:31
  They were like, who knows?
• 10:33
  Dry caves.
• 10:34
  Dry caves.
• 10:35
  Oh, my God.
• 10:35
  Oh, my God,.
• 10:38
  You guys.
• 10:39
  I also imagine the water that cavemen were using, that water was cold, not potable.
• 10:43
  Not potable drinking water.
• 10:45
  I'll tell you that for free.
• 10:46
  Well, then how did they used to give baths to babies?
• 10:48
  I don't think they gave baths.
• 10:49
  I think they did.
• 10:50
  Well, is there.
• 10:51
  Washed them off.
• 10:52
  They were just like, ah, you're smelly.
• 10:53
  And that's that.
• 10:54
  Oh, you're smelly now.
• 10:55
  You'll be smelly for life.
• 10:57
  I think hygiene was big in caveman.
• 10:58
  And days when you were first born, you know, they.
• 11:01
  They cleaned you up.
• 11:02
  Yeah, well, maybe that was like the fashion back then.
• 11:05
  I don't know.
• 11:06
  They were like, people expect a clean baby.
• 11:08
  Give them a clean baby.
• 11:09
  I wanted a clean baby.
• 11:11
  I did know that when I read this, I had no idea this was even possible to get a baby with the stuff all over.
• 11:18
  Yeah.
• 11:18
  Isn't that funny?
• 11:20
  A baby with sauce.
• 11:22
  Baby with dried sauce.
• 11:23
  It was just like, I didn't know about that.
• 11:27
  Anyway, okay, anyway.
• 11:29
  Infant weight loss.
• 11:30
  So what often happens, what almost always happens is the baby is born.
• 11:35
  And in the few days after your doctors compulsively weigh your baby and ask you, is your baby back at birth weight?
• 11:42
  Are they back at birth weight?
• 11:43
  It's like, girl, I don't know.
• 11:45
  I've never done this before.
• 11:46
  Please weigh my baby and give me an answer.
• 11:49
  And the reason babies lose weight immediately is because when they're born, before they're born, they are attached to the.
• 11:57
  What is it?
• 11:58
  The placenta.
• 11:59
  And the placenta gives them all their nutrients, so it's constantly feeding them.
• 12:03
  But then they come out and they don't know how to eat.
• 12:07
  They're not.
• 12:08
  So of course they lose weight because they're at a deficit.
• 12:11
  Something I'm learning about calories is as soon as you're at a calorie deficit,.
• 12:15
  That's when the weight goes down.
• 12:17
  Right, Right.
• 12:17
  That's what happens to babies.
• 12:19
  And the doctors for the first week are, like, obsessed with getting the baby back to birth weight.
• 12:24
  Yeah.
• 12:25
  Which, like, good.
• 12:26
  Let's do it.
• 12:27
  Let's do it, guys.
• 12:28
  But it's so interesting because there's not much for them to eat right away anyway.
• 12:32
  It's just colost, like, colostrum.
• 12:34
  There's no milk yet right away.
• 12:35
  And it's like.
• 12:36
  Or formula.
• 12:37
  Or formula.
• 12:38
  But even it's like, for the first day, you don't have milk or formula.
• 12:42
  Just like, how much weight is this baby going to lose?
• 12:44
  Exactly.
• 12:45
  So it's like, we're both tired.
• 12:46
  This baby was Just born.
• 12:48
  Right.
• 12:49
  That was a lot for them and a lot for me.
• 12:52
  So let's circle back to this other time.
• 12:56
  And she says that the hospital will make you supplement if the baby loses more than 10% of their weight, which I get it.
• 13:03
  But also, I feel like some people probably feel really strongly that they don't want that maybe.
• 13:07
  Yeah.
• 13:08
  And they're like, oh.
• 13:09
  But she didn't say anything about the research on that one.
• 13:12
  Yeah.
• 13:12
  So I guess there is.
• 13:13
  I don't know.
• 13:14
  But then there's jaundice.
• 13:16
  I just want to mention jaundice when the baby's skin turned, only.
• 13:19
  Only because my son had jaundice.
• 13:21
  They had to put him in the little microwave.
• 13:23
  Well, it was like a little box with lights on him and he was wearing goggles.
• 13:29
  He was so cute.
• 13:29
  And I.
• 13:30
  They kept him in the hospital for several days and I had to.
• 13:35
  They discharged me and I had to go home without him.
• 13:38
  And it was so upset.
• 13:40
  I would go to the hospital and just cry.
• 13:43
  Cause I was like, oh, my baby.
• 13:46
  It was so devastating.
• 13:47
  That's so sad.
• 13:48
  For several days.
• 13:50
  But then they get better.
• 13:52
  So it just put them in the box with the lights.
• 13:54
  Yeah.
• 13:55
  And jaundice is a result of excess bilirubin in the baby's liver, which all babies have, because before they're born, you are essentially their liver.
• 14:06
  And then their liver sort of has to learn how to detox.
• 14:11
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 14:12
  So anyway.
• 14:13
  Yes.
• 14:14
  Oh, we were talking about colic last week, too.
• 14:16
  Did your kid.
• 14:18
  Did your baby have colic?
• 14:20
  I don't think so.
• 14:21
  I mean, I think you would know, right?
• 14:23
  Yes.
• 14:24
  It would be so significant.
• 14:25
  I was like.
• 14:25
  She was loud and she cried.
• 14:27
  But no, it wasn't colic.
• 14:29
  I was never, like, in distress about it.
• 14:31
  Which is my measure of colic is like, are you okay with your child?
• 14:36
  Okay.
• 14:37
  Yeah.
• 14:37
  Then it's probably not colic.
• 14:38
  Then you're probably okay.
• 14:39
  Yeah.
• 14:40
  Yeah.
• 14:41
  Well, they say that Gerber sells a gas relieving drug, but there's no evidence that it works.
• 14:49
  Listen, you could say that about most products.
• 14:52
  Well, I don't know.
• 14:54
  Yeah.
• 14:54
  They also make a probiotic which she says may help babies who are breastfed.
• 15:01
  And she said with colic?
• 15:02
  Maybe.
• 15:03
  See, she didn't have strong opinions about this, but she said that maybe you can change the mother's diet and go to a low allergen.
• 15:12
  Diet.
• 15:13
  Diet.
• 15:13
  That might help.
• 15:14
  After everything you've been through.
• 15:16
  Have you not done enough?
• 15:17
  Now you eat.
• 15:19
  Now you can't eat anything.
• 15:20
  Don't eat anything.
• 15:21
  But also then you still don't really know what's causing it.
• 15:23
  And then colic happens for such a short period of time, like, how much of an elimination diet can you actually do to figure out what's causing it in that amount of time?
• 15:33
  And like, you know, how effective can you be?
• 15:36
  Right?
• 15:36
  That's true.
• 15:37
  The answer, not very.
• 15:38
  They say it stops at around three months usually, so.
• 15:42
  But worms.
• 15:45
  This was stressful.
• 15:46
  This was stressful.
• 15:48
  That said, I had my baby during the summer, which is honestly, it's a relief because it's not flu season.
• 15:55
  People aren't walking around coughing.
• 15:58
  And like, there was no new COVID variant for like the first time in five years when I had my baby.
• 16:04
  So it was like a relatively.
• 16:05
  It should have been a relatively low stress situation.
• 16:08
  However, again, maybe it was just this one nurse that I had in the hospital who was so intense about germs and she's like, listen, you can't let anyone but immediate family come within 30ft of this baby.
• 16:23
  The hand washing, the hand washing my.
• 16:25
  Hands were so raw.
• 16:27
  At the end of that three month period, everyone who came into my house, their hands were bloody and raw.
• 16:33
  I'm like, did you wash your hands?
• 16:34
  How about again, how about a third time before you touch this baby?
• 16:38
  Because she was like, listen, germs, they're invisible, but they're everywhere.
• 16:43
  Oh, yeah, that's true.
• 16:44
  And I'm like, we're in a hospital.
• 16:46
  Do you know how many germs are here?
• 16:47
  Can I please leave this place?
• 16:49
  But what Emily says is that you really want to avoid germs because just to get your child tested at that young age is really, like, intense.
• 17:00
  Like, they might have to do a spinal test and that sounds very horrible.
• 17:04
  Very horrible.
• 17:05
  Yeah.
• 17:05
  I don't avoid.
• 17:07
  I mean, I had banks in Covid, so, like, you did?
• 17:10
  Oh, yeah.
• 17:11
  And so there was.
• 17:12
  I mean, first of all, there wasn't really anyone coming around because, like, no one was seeing each other.
• 17:17
  But then when they did come around, it was like so extra.
• 17:20
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:21
  I was like masks and gloves and like.
• 17:24
  So I'm curious to understand the data later on, the isolation to new babies.
• 17:29
  Just seeing people in masks.
• 17:32
  I know, yeah.
• 17:33
  Oh, my God, that must have been so scary.
• 17:34
  I didn't even think of that, like, from their perspective.
• 17:36
  Like my daughter, I take her to the nail salon a lot and because they work with acrylics, sometimes, like some of the girls will wear masks and it freaks her out.
• 17:45
  She doesn't get it.
• 17:46
  Yeah.
• 17:46
  Oh, she's like.
• 17:47
  Because they're so intensely, like, trying to do facial recognition and learn like.
• 17:51
  Like, connection is a big part of how you respond to them.
• 17:54
  Right.
• 17:55
  So.
• 17:55
  Oh, who knows?
• 17:57
  So what do they think with everybody covering half their face?
• 18:00
  They don't like it, I'll tell you that.
• 18:02
  Lingering consequences.
• 18:04
  Oh, I love how that was for framing for.
• 18:07
  No, no.
• 18:08
  You'll look pregnant for a few weeks after giving birth.
• 18:11
  True, your skin will be floppy with C sections.
• 18:14
  It's painful to do things that involve your abdominal muscles.
• 18:17
  Also true, you may get hemorrhoids.
• 18:21
  And this is across the board.
• 18:23
  This isn't just exclusive to vaginal birth.
• 18:25
  Anybody can get a hemorrhoid at any time.
• 18:29
  Well, yeah.
• 18:30
  I mean, especially when you've given birth, though.
• 18:32
  Yeah.
• 18:32
  Yeah.
• 18:33
  But you would be kind of giving birth.
• 18:35
  Yeah.
• 18:35
  Any kind of trauma if you had a C section.
• 18:38
  Like, there's not so much trauma.
• 18:40
  So why hemorrhoids?
• 18:41
  I don't know.
• 18:42
  But still, you get them.
• 18:43
  You get them.
• 18:44
  Yeah.
• 18:44
  Well, was it you who told me you can fix one with garlic?
• 18:48
  Yeah.
• 18:49
  Really?
• 18:49
  Oh, yeah.
• 18:50
  You can fix a hemorrhoid with garlic?
• 18:52
  You can.
• 18:53
  How so?
• 18:55
  I mean, I had the unfortunate reality of finding this out when I was in Thailand.
• 19:00
  And, like, I could not translate hemorrhoid cream after, like, many hours of traveling and, like, tuk tuk rides and, like, the whole situation and, like.
• 19:10
  And I had to Google it.
• 19:11
  Like, I had to find an Internet cafe at the time and, like, go online.
• 19:14
  And I had ended up tying a piece of garlic to a string, like, of dental floss.
• 19:20
  Oh, my God.
• 19:21
  And just popping it up there.
• 19:23
  Really?
• 19:24
  No kidding?
• 19:26
  No kidding.
• 19:27
  You do what you gotta do.
• 19:29
  You gotta do what you gotta do,.
• 19:30
  And it makes it.
• 19:31
  And it did.
• 19:31
  It went away.
• 19:32
  Went away enough that I could.
• 19:34
  Garlic is gone first, though, I have to know.
• 19:38
  Oh, yeah, you peel it.
• 19:39
  Okay.
• 19:39
  I do.
• 19:39
  Yes.
• 19:40
  You gotta get it.
• 19:40
  You gotta get it.
• 19:41
  But it is.
• 19:41
  You gotta get it.
• 19:42
  Nice and slick.
• 19:43
  I don't know.
• 19:43
  I don't know.
• 19:44
  You crazy tea.
• 19:47
  I didn't know that.
• 19:48
  But it works, huh?
• 19:49
  Yeah, it worked.
• 19:50
  Oh, wow, that's amazing.
• 19:51
  Yeah, garlic is great for nature's inflammation.
• 19:55
  Okay.
• 19:55
  Good.
• 19:56
  Of any kind, anywhere.
• 19:58
  All right, so go on.
• 20:00
  More serious complications.
• 20:03
  Okay.
• 20:04
  They can happen.
• 20:05
  So watch out for fevers, severe abdominal pain, bleeding, chest pain, changes in vision, bad headaches.
• 20:14
  Because swelling and headaches can indicate preeclampsia.
• 20:18
  Right.
• 20:18
  What is it called once you've had the baby?
• 20:20
  Is it still preeclampsia or is it just eclampsia?
• 20:22
  Post Eclampsia?
• 20:23
  I don't know.
• 20:24
  I actually don't know.
• 20:25
  Yeah, I think it's preeclampsia, but it is still very scary.
• 20:27
  Yeah.
• 20:28
  So scary.
• 20:29
  Yeah.
• 20:29
  And it can.
• 20:30
  I don't know if that's what causes hemorrhages, but it can raise your blood pressure so much that you can have seizures.
• 20:36
  Yeah.
• 20:36
  So scary.
• 20:37
  So get prenatal care.
• 20:40
  Don't.
• 20:40
  I'm seeing these women on the Internet lately who are like, yeah, I'm having a wild pregnancy.
• 20:44
  I'm just gonna stay in my house in the woods, and I'm just gonna deliver my baby here.
• 20:49
  And I'm not gonna get it checked up at all during the course of my course.
• 20:53
  Wild, as in.
• 20:54
  In the wild.
• 20:54
  Yeah, not like.
• 20:56
  Not like a wild and crazy.
• 20:57
  Although there was a girl who just delivered a baby at Ultra and she didn't even know she was pregnant.
• 21:03
  What?
• 21:03
  Yeah, she was at a music festival on a bunch of Molly and she went to the bathroom and had baby.
• 21:08
  This happened.
• 21:09
  Yes.
• 21:10
  She had a covert pregnancy, which, honestly, lucky.
• 21:13
  But no, she had no idea.
• 21:15
  People just really have no idea.
• 21:17
  Yeah, she was in Miami at Ultra and just came out of the baby.
• 21:20
  She's like, I thought I had, like, a bad burrito.
• 21:23
  It's like, oh, my God.
• 21:24
  It's always a bad burrito.
• 21:26
  Did she want a baby or.
• 21:29
  No, she did not want a baby, but I guess now she's a mom.
• 21:32
  Now she knows.
• 21:33
  Now she is mom.
• 21:34
  Okay.
• 21:35
  That's how it happens sometimes, folks.
• 21:38
  She had no complications, apparently.
• 21:40
  Obviously, exercise and sex.
• 21:44
  So you're not supposed to have.
• 21:47
  Do any exercise within a few days with a C section, maybe about three weeks.
• 21:51
  But you should always check with your doctor.
• 21:54
  Cause C sections, I feel, you know, they're a little more predictable for healing.
• 21:59
  But you still should always be careful.
• 22:01
  Everybody is an individual in this context.
• 22:05
  You know, check with your doctor and you can supposedly have sex around eight weeks postpartum.
• 22:13
  Why you would.
• 22:15
  I was gonna say is beyond me.
• 22:17
  Well, yeah, it was scary.
• 22:19
  I remember sex hurt so badly.
• 22:21
  Yeah.
• 22:22
  It was so painful.
• 22:23
  He's like, this isn't what I remember.
• 22:25
  No, come on.
• 22:28
  This is.
• 22:28
  I don't know what this is anymore, but it's not that.
• 22:32
  No, I remember that.
• 22:33
  No, I still remember that.
• 22:35
  It's been years.
• 22:36
  But I.
• 22:36
  I mean, you had me and Sam 14 months apart, so.
• 22:40
  That's true.
• 22:41
  Yeah.
• 22:42
  But even the first after.
• 22:43
  The first one after you.
• 22:45
  Yeah.
• 22:45
  Very painful.
• 22:46
  Yeah.
• 22:46
  Very bad.
• 22:47
  Yeah.
• 22:48
  I don't even remember.
• 22:49
  I'm sure I like blacked out.
• 22:52
  This.
• 22:52
  I can't.
• 22:53
  I can't handle this.
• 22:55
  A big thing that I remember from.
• 22:57
  Testing moms is definitely my tutor, Maddie.
• 22:59
  She was a lot more patient and made tutoring a lot more fun than learning about things with my mom.
• 23:05
  I remember that there were a lot.
• 23:07
  Of games, and it made me look forward to going to tutoring.
• 23:10
  Every week your hormones surge after giving birth, so you'll find yourself emotionally sensitive during this time.
• 23:19
  You can get postpartum depression pretty soon after birth.
• 23:24
  The biggest predisposed risk is if you have had depression before.
• 23:29
  I didn't feel any major hormone surges right away.
• 23:34
  I felt them when I stopped nursing.
• 23:37
  That is when I felt the largest drop.
• 23:39
  Yeah.
• 23:40
  You know, because I felt like I was kind of riding high.
• 23:43
  When did you stop?
• 23:44
  At eight months.
• 23:45
  Yeah.
• 23:46
  So, like.
• 23:46
  And they say things can kind of happen around eight months too, but that was the first time I really felt like, oh, I feel different now.
• 23:55
  Oh.
• 23:56
  After I had her, I was like, oh, I guess I just.
• 23:58
  Just am impervious.
• 23:59
  Yeah.
• 24:00
  To all this.
• 24:01
  Well, I think that when you stop breastfeeding, there's obviously a big shift because you have, like, your.
• 24:05
  The daily serotonin that you're getting from, like, all the bonding hormones with your baby.
• 24:09
  Like, you don't realize how, like, used to.
• 24:11
  That you've gotten over eight months.
• 24:13
  Yeah.
• 24:13
  And now.
• 24:13
  And then.
• 24:14
  And then you're just like, don't do that anymore.
• 24:16
  And you're like, well, what do I does?
• 24:18
  Were you.
• 24:18
  Where does that dopamine hit come from?
• 24:20
  I think so.
• 24:21
  Yeah.
• 24:21
  I think I was depressed for like a month.
• 24:24
  I was like, oh.
• 24:26
  And then I went on a cruise.
• 24:27
  And that kind of picked me back up.
• 24:29
  Yeah.
• 24:30
  And then I was like, okay, okay, I'm better.
• 24:32
  Could be worse.
• 24:33
  I mean, postpartum can also happen, like, way later.
• 24:35
  Like, some people get postpartum at, like, age 2.
• 24:38
  Really?
• 24:38
  Oh, I didn't know that.
• 24:40
  What?
• 24:40
  Okay.
• 24:40
  Yeah, I think.
• 24:41
  Or they.
• 24:42
  Or it.
• 24:43
  Maybe they've had it and they didn't realize it or the realization comes.
• 24:47
  But you can get diagnosed with postpartum for waving an extended period of.
• 24:51
  Into toddlerhood.
• 24:52
  Yeah, I didn't know.
• 24:53
  I feel like it's.
• 24:54
  Toddlers are more difficult.
• 24:55
  So I can see getting depressed when you're baby.
• 24:59
  When your baby was so cute and so agreeable for so long, and then suddenly they're just not.
• 25:04
  Yeah, I'd be depressed for sure.
• 25:08
  Yeah, exactly.
• 25:09
  Big changes.
• 25:09
  Just big changes to deal with.
• 25:11
  I mean, Banks is like a person now.
• 25:13
  She is.
• 25:13
  She has Opinions.
• 25:15
  Oh, so many.
• 25:16
  Oh, my God.
• 25:17
  It's so weird when your baby is suddenly 5, 6, 6, 7, and, you know, they're just like a real person.
• 25:24
  It's just crazy.
• 25:25
  But it's also great because they're like.
• 25:26
  It is.
• 25:27
  It's.
• 25:27
  This is, like, really fun.
• 25:28
  Like when she's a teenager and has opinions.
• 25:30
  I'll probably be a lot less into it.
• 25:32
  Enjoy it right now.
• 25:33
  Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy these ones.
• 25:34
  These are cute opinions.
• 25:36
  Those will be less cute.
• 25:38
  Here's one we're getting into.
• 25:40
  I just want to bring in a new topic from Dr.
• 25:45
  Or she.
• 25:45
  Is she a doctor?
• 25:46
  I don't know.
• 25:47
  She's professor.
• 25:49
  She's a professor.
• 25:49
  She's a professor.
• 25:50
  So maybe a PhD doctor.
• 25:52
  Professor Oster.
• 25:53
  Professor Oster says that there's lots of studies, because I heard this when you were little, which was that breastfeeding.
• 26:02
  If you breastfeed, your child will have a higher iq, and that's based on studies.
• 26:07
  But she says the study isn't good, so probably like.
• 26:12
  Yes, the study says that the IQ is higher, but they were looking at mothers who were richer and had more education than the general population.
• 26:23
  Right.
• 26:23
  So it may have had nothing to do with.
• 26:25
  Yeah, yeah.
• 26:26
  It's a correlation.
• 26:28
  Yeah.
• 26:28
  Not a cause.
• 26:29
  Yes.
• 26:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 26:30
  This is as scientific as we'll get on this.
• 26:32
  Exactly.
• 26:33
  Yeah, exactly.
• 26:35
  Exactly.
• 26:36
  But anyway, okay.
• 26:37
  More science.
• 26:38
  Right.
• 26:39
  The rest of my life.
• 26:41
  Okay.
• 26:41
  So we talked about the kinds of studies that we.
• 26:44
  That we gave the explanation for.
• 26:47
  Oh, but this was good.
• 26:48
  Again, getting back to breastfeeding.
• 26:50
  That there is evidence.
• 26:51
  And she says this is.
• 26:52
  This is true.
• 26:54
  That breastfeeding may lead to a 20 to 30% decrease in breast cancer.
• 27:00
  Really?
• 27:00
  She says the data isn't perfect, but she says it's plausible.
• 27:04
  So the biggest breastfeeding benefit may be for mothers more than, like, all the other, you know, breastfeeding benefits.
• 27:12
  Like some of the things your baby will have better immunity.
• 27:15
  This and that, she says.
• 27:16
  Not sure about that, but that's tenuous.
• 27:19
  Tenuous.
• 27:20
  But this is.
• 27:21
  She felt more confident about this, which is a good thing.
• 27:24
  If that's amazing, it's a great thing considering all we go through.
• 27:27
  I know.
• 27:28
  So it kind of gives you a little bit of protection is what she says.
• 27:31
  Wow, that's amazing.
• 27:33
  It also sucks for women who don't have children.
• 27:36
  Totally.
• 27:36
  Oh, yeah.
• 27:37
  Because I think that's.
• 27:37
  I think that's where that study came from.
• 27:39
  Oh, is that right?
• 27:40
  Not only women who didn't breastfeed, but also women who didn't you don't have children.
• 27:45
  Okay.
• 27:45
  And, like, the.
• 27:46
  The rate goes up for your increased chance of breast cancer.
• 27:48
  Yeah.
• 27:48
  I didn't know that.
• 27:49
  Being a woman.
• 27:50
  It's just every day they log new things at us where they're like, yeah, guess what?
• 27:55
  And then.
• 27:55
  And they're like.
• 27:56
  And you just have to deal with it.
• 27:57
  Yeah.
• 27:58
  Because you're a woman.
• 27:58
  You're a woman.
• 27:59
  We're not going to research this.
• 28:01
  Right.
• 28:01
  We're not going to learn anything else about this.
• 28:03
  We're not going to try and cure this.
• 28:04
  So.
• 28:05
  We know, but.
• 28:05
  We know.
• 28:06
  We know, but.
• 28:07
  Yeah.
• 28:07
  So as far as we're going to.
• 28:08
  Take this, you can handle it.
• 28:11
  You're a woman.
• 28:12
  You're so strong.
• 28:16
  I don't want to be like, let.
• 28:18
  Me be frail in peace.
• 28:19
  Okay, let's see.
• 28:21
  Okay.
• 28:22
  Randomize.
• 28:23
  Okay.
• 28:23
  Breastfeeding, general interventions.
• 28:26
  Okay.
• 28:27
  So some people have a really hard time with breastfeeding.
• 28:30
  I feel for people who deal with that, because if you really want to breastfeed and for whatever reason, your baby is having a hard time with it, or some people, their babies just gastrointestinally don't respond well to their
• 28:45
  breast milk.
• 28:45
  That just must be so devastating.
• 28:47
  Yeah.
• 28:47
  Yeah.
• 28:48
  But there's also just so much judgment around breastfeeding, which is why it's so devastating, because I feel like this is, like, a newer thing.
• 28:55
  Like, I feel like there was a time when, like, formula was really encouraged and, like, there was no judgment around whether you breastfed or not.
• 29:01
  It was, like, the norm to not or to do it for a much shorter amount of time.
• 29:07
  And, like.
• 29:08
  Great.
• 29:09
  But now it's like, if you don't breastfeed.
• 29:11
  Yeah.
• 29:11
  Do you care about your baby?
• 29:13
  Right.
• 29:14
  Right.
• 29:15
  They put you so much pressure on.
• 29:16
  You to do it.
• 29:17
  And given what she said that there's not that much evidence that it's really that helpful.
• 29:23
  Other than for yourself.
• 29:24
  Maybe another myth is that you'll lose weight when you breastfeed.
• 29:28
  Right, Right.
• 29:28
  Who made that up?
• 29:30
  That lie?
• 29:31
  That terrible lie?
• 29:32
  I don't know, but we all heard it.
• 29:34
  We all heard it.
• 29:35
  But she says it's definitely not even true.
• 29:37
  It can confirm.
• 29:38
  Yeah.
• 29:38
  The data confirms it's not tr.
• 29:41
  Professor Oster says.
• 29:42
  No, that is not true.
• 29:43
  Yeah.
• 29:43
  Because you eat more because you're using.
• 29:47
  I'm eating for 11.
• 29:48
  Yeah.
• 29:49
  I am a grocery store.
• 29:51
  Yes.
• 29:51
  In order to get more breast milk, you have to eat more.
• 29:54
  Exactly.
• 29:54
  I need to stock my body accordingly.
• 29:56
  So I need to eat approximately 13,000 calories a day.
• 29:59
  Right, Exactly.
• 30:02
  We all Know the rule.
• 30:03
  Less calories.
• 30:03
  It's a calorie deficit.
• 30:04
  It's the deficit.
• 30:05
  Like babies when they're born.
• 30:07
  How it works, science.
• 30:12
  Oh, there's so much about breastfeeding.
• 30:14
  There's a lot.
• 30:14
  And milk supply.
• 30:16
  Yeah.
• 30:17
  And what not to, you know, eat when you're breastfeeding.
• 30:21
  Yes.
• 30:22
  The Sid stuff is sad.
• 30:23
  So can we skip it?
• 30:25
  Sure.
• 30:25
  I mean, I guess we can talk about it because it's in the book, but it always makes me sad, especially having a little baby.
• 30:30
  But I guess it's a thing that happens so.
• 30:32
  Well, just about sleep position.
• 30:34
  That's important.
• 30:35
  It's like.
• 30:35
  Like, you know, she says that, you know, which.
• 30:39
  Which now we know.
• 30:40
  You put your baby on their back.
• 30:42
  To go to sleep with nothing in the crib.
• 30:44
  Nothing in the crib.
• 30:45
  When you were born, I had all these crib bumpers.
• 30:49
  I had blankets.
• 30:50
  You know, I didn't know any of this stuff.
• 30:52
  It's a miracle I survived.
• 30:54
  It is a miracle.
• 30:55
  Thank God.
• 30:56
  I see pictures of my crib and it's, like, beautiful.
• 30:59
  It was beautiful.
• 31:00
  It had all these polka dots.
• 31:01
  But I just look at all the stuff inside, and I'm like, how do I not die in this bed?
• 31:08
  It's like going.
• 31:08
  It's like you're in a.
• 31:09
  Like you're going to your coronation every night.
• 31:11
  There's so.
• 31:12
  There's like.
• 31:13
  I'm in a christening gown.
• 31:15
  I'm just like, wow.
• 31:17
  I know.
• 31:18
  Who am I to deserve this crib?
• 31:20
  And now they're, like, flat.
• 31:22
  Nothing.
• 31:22
  No blankets, no pillows, no anything on their back.
• 31:25
  On their back.
• 31:26
  Get a burrito.
• 31:27
  And I.
• 31:27
  I still.
• 31:28
  I watch my baby sleep.
• 31:29
  And I know it's safe for her now to sleep on her stomach.
• 31:33
  I can't sleep if she's on her stomach.
• 31:34
  Yeah.
• 31:34
  I, like, still freak out.
• 31:36
  And I turn her over.
• 31:37
  I'll turn her over 50 times a night.
• 31:38
  Oh, really?
• 31:40
  Oh, but it caused so much stress.
• 31:42
  That's so much stress.
• 31:43
  I know.
• 31:44
  Yeah.
• 31:44
  I know.
• 31:45
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  I'm like, what if she forgets to breathe?
• 31:48
  I know.
• 31:48
  I was.
• 31:49
  I mean, I was scared about that for a long time, too.
• 31:51
  You just.
• 31:51
  That's just Mom.
• 31:52
  Yeah.
• 31:53
  Just scared for the life of your child.
• 31:55
  Constantly.
• 31:56
  Because they can't do it on their own.
• 31:57
  They can't.
• 31:57
  They can't survive without you.
• 31:59
  No.
• 31:59
  Ever.
• 32:00
  Ever.
• 32:01
  I need you.
• 32:02
  She's 38.
• 32:03
  She's like, mom, quit turning me over while I sleep.
• 32:06
  Stop.
• 32:07
  Stop sneaking.
• 32:09
  She's like, I'm gonna call the police.
• 32:11
  And.
• 32:12
  And they talk about co.
• 32:13
  Sleeping and.
• 32:15
  And that it is kind of.
• 32:16
  It's more dangerous to co sleep because you might roll over on the baby.
• 32:20
  It's particularly dangerous if you smoke or drink.
• 32:23
  Yes.
• 32:24
  And smoking across the board is incredibly dangerous around babies.
• 32:28
  That is something that there is.
• 32:30
  She said.
• 32:31
  She cites so many studies about how, listen, if you smoke when you're pregnant, if you smoke anywhere near the baby, that is a hundred percent bad.
• 32:38
  100 of the time.
• 32:40
  Right.
• 32:40
  Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
• 32:42
  And the co sleeping, there's just risk of you rolling over onto your baby.
• 32:46
  Right.
• 32:47
  And don't fall asleep with.
• 32:49
  With your baby on a couch.
• 32:51
  That's the worst.
• 32:52
  Because I guess you really can suffocate on a couch.
• 32:55
  Yeah.
• 32:55
  There's like more things.
• 32:56
  The cushions.
• 32:57
  Too many.
• 32:58
  Yeah.
• 32:58
  Too many pillows.
• 32:59
  Yeah, yeah.
• 33:00
  Did you.
• 33:01
  I mean, did you guys go sleep?
• 33:03
  We did not.
• 33:04
  Because.
• 33:06
  Lion is such a heavy sleeper that like, I was like, this is too.
• 33:12
  I can't.
• 33:13
  Also I wanted to sleep and I knew that if, like, if she was there, I would be like, I would be concerned the whole night.
• 33:19
  Well, and that's what she said.
• 33:21
  The statistics are that if you are sleeping with the baby, you are not going to sleep as well.
• 33:26
  You don't sleep as well.
• 33:27
  Right.
• 33:28
  So that's what they said.
• 33:29
  Just next to your bed was totally fine.
• 33:31
  Yeah.
• 33:32
  In a little bassinet or something right there.
• 33:35
  Right there.
• 33:35
  I could touch her.
• 33:36
  Yeah.
• 33:37
  It was great.
• 33:37
  And she was safe.
• 33:39
  Yes, yes.
• 33:40
  God, I love Nanit, I tell ya.
• 33:42
  Yeah, I love that thing.
• 33:44
  I have all the monitors.
• 33:45
  I got a monitor in all the rooms.
• 33:47
  I know on your phone you can always see when she sleeps.
• 33:49
  Even when I'm not home.
• 33:50
  Do you do the oxygen monitor that you can put on them?
• 33:55
  You know, it's funny, we thought about getting that and I was like, I feel like I'm gonna become so obsessed with the stats.
• 34:02
  Like, I had an OURA ring for like a week.
• 34:05
  I was checking that data every hour.
• 34:07
  I'm like, what's my sleep score?
• 34:09
  Am I in sleep debt?
• 34:10
  Like, what's my blood pressure?
• 34:12
  Why do I need to know this?
• 34:14
  I quit all of those things.
• 34:15
  Cause I became obsessed all the time.
• 34:17
  Too much.
• 34:18
  Yeah.
• 34:18
  Too much information.
• 34:19
  Yes.
• 34:20
  That I like.
• 34:21
  Who am I to know all this?
• 34:24
  What am I gonna do?
• 34:24
  What are you doing with this information?
• 34:28
  Well, you know, you might become like some kind of athlete at some point, right?
• 34:33
  Yeah, yeah.
• 34:33
  It's in your teenage.
• 34:34
  Do you believe that I could be an athlete?
• 34:36
  No.
• 34:37
  But I've been saying maybe that's it.
• 34:38
  I don't know.
• 34:40
  Yeah, no, I have no reason and no business.
• 34:42
  I honestly, if they make the owl sock for, like, an adult, I would get that for myself.
• 34:46
  You would?
• 34:46
  I totally would.
• 34:47
  But I will say, I think if your kid, if your baby is sick or something and you're concerned about, like, a respiratory infection, that's probably a godsend.
• 34:55
  Well, yeah, but if you're just a normal parent who compulsively checks on their child, it's not healthy for you.
• 35:01
  It's too much information from regular people, I would think.
• 35:04
  I don't know.
• 35:05
  For.
• 35:05
  Not scientists.
• 35:06
  Yes.
• 35:07
  Okay.
• 35:07
  So vaccines.
• 35:08
  Oh, yeah.
• 35:09
  This obviously hot button topic.
• 35:11
  Everyone's obsessed with vaccines.
• 35:13
  We on this podcast are very pro vaccine because it's the year 2026, and if your child gets ill of a preventable illness, I don't feel bad for you because you should have just gotten a vaccine.
• 35:28
  Well, yeah.
• 35:29
  I mean, a lot of people are very wary of them and nervous, but they're weary of it.
• 35:34
  Not because they think that the diseases don't exist.
• 35:37
  It's because of correlations.
• 35:40
  Well, she tells the story, not a reality.
• 35:42
  Yes.
• 35:42
  I think this is an important story to mention, which is this doctor named a former doctor, Andrew Wakefield, and he published a paper suggesting a link between autism and vaccines.
• 35:53
  And the paper was a summary of 12 case studies.
• 35:56
  So it was like that third category of study that she talks about, the least credible.
• 36:01
  The least credible as it was all 12 kids did have autism, and Wakefield claimed the symptoms of autism began right after they got their MMR vaccine.
• 36:13
  And the paper's conclusions were wrong, and it contradicted all the other studies that were out there.
• 36:19
  And the paper was fraudulent.
• 36:21
  The doctor only included kids that supported his conclusion.
• 36:25
  He had other kids in the study that he just didn't mention that didn't get.
• 36:30
  This is why he's a former doctor.
• 36:32
  He's a former doctor.
• 36:33
  He changed details about the onset of autism to make it seem like it happened closer to when they got the vaccine.
• 36:39
  He said it just.
• 36:40
  They got the vaccine and a week later they became autistic, which, you know, I don't know.
• 36:45
  You just have to wonder, like, why would he do that?
• 36:48
  Well, I don't know.
• 36:49
  That's to make a splash in the medical field, I guess, but.
• 36:55
  Well, he lost his license.
• 36:57
  He had to retract the article because.
• 36:59
  He's jeopardizing millions of people.
• 37:02
  Well, yeah.
• 37:03
  And people who are prone to misinformation, as we see in the world we live today.
• 37:07
  It's like, you can say something in a convincing enough tone and.
• 37:10
  And people will believe it.
• 37:12
  Especially if you're a doctor.
• 37:13
  Yeah, if you're a doctor.
• 37:15
  I'm like, why wouldn't I believe?
• 37:17
  Why would you lie to me?
• 37:18
  You know, I'm predisposed to trust you.
• 37:21
  And I think it's.
• 37:22
  I can empathize with parents who are fearful, you know, who are saying, okay, I'm not going to vaccinate my child because I am afraid of this result that I have empathy for.
• 37:33
  What I struggle to have empathy for is parents who are sort of willfully ignorant, who.
• 37:39
  Now, because it's sort of like, at this point, there was enough stuff rebuking this claim.
• 37:44
  Like, can we all just agree that this was not right?
• 37:47
  And.
• 37:48
  And it gave all vaccines, I think, a bad name.
• 37:50
  Like, all.
• 37:51
  Or do a credible study.
• 37:52
  Yeah, like, maybe.
• 37:54
  But do you believe there's a link?
• 37:57
  Find it.
• 37:58
  She says they're.
• 37:58
  Oh, oh, right.
• 37:59
  But there are credible studies.
• 38:00
  They all go the other way.
• 38:02
  Exactly.
• 38:02
  They say, no, they're fine.
• 38:04
  You can do it.
• 38:05
  It's not.
• 38:05
  There's no.
• 38:06
  We're only working with the data we've got.
• 38:08
  Like, none of us are gonna go out and do our own studies.
• 38:11
  If anyone says to me, I like to do my own research, I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that you had any idea how to do research.
• 38:19
  Yeah.
• 38:19
  Wow, that's crazy.
• 38:20
  How long have you been doing your research?
• 38:22
  How long have you been doing this research?
• 38:23
  Subjects are in your research.
• 38:24
  Yeah.
• 38:25
  Oh, I'm sorry.
• 38:27
  Excuse me.
• 38:28
  And I guess the research is just reading.
• 38:30
  It's always the stupidest other people's.
• 38:32
  Other people's article, theories, stupidest, most gullible people I know.
• 38:35
  I like to do my own research.
• 38:37
  It's like you didn't in middle school.
• 38:40
  What's changed?
• 38:43
  Oh, God.
• 38:44
  Oh, God.
• 38:44
  Okay, and now working mom versus Stay at home mom.
• 38:48
  Okay, this is an issue of contention on this podcast because we read a book last season that was like, if you work, you are going to raise a horrible criminal.
• 39:00
  Well, yeah, I mean, you're.
• 39:02
  And you won't bond with your child.
• 39:04
  You know, you must be there with.
• 39:06
  The baby at all times for the first three years.
• 39:09
  You can't not be there.
• 39:11
  And if you're even thinking about working, make it part time or.
• 39:18
  She was like, you need to work when your child won't notice.
• 39:22
  When is that?
• 39:24
  Okay, so every mother needs to work overnight is what you're saying, and then be awake all Day and be home and take care of their baby.
• 39:33
  According to this thesis.
• 39:34
  Yes.
• 39:34
  That works.
• 39:35
  I will say that.
• 39:36
  The good news is she says she's looked at all the studies, all the evidence, and she says that actually the studies and the evidence don't provide direction either way.
• 39:47
  Staying home isn't better.
• 39:49
  Working isn't better.
• 39:51
  It's.
• 39:51
  You know, babies do benefit if their mothers take some maternity leave, you know, when they're infants, but after that, there's just no evidence that it makes any difference.
• 40:05
  So she says since the studies don't give you an answer, just do what works for you and your family, and that's all we should do.
• 40:12
  And don't judge each other.
• 40:14
  That was it.
• 40:14
  I thought that was very good advice.
• 40:16
  It is.
• 40:17
  Yeah.
• 40:17
  I like that.
• 40:18
  I agree.
• 40:19
  Don't judge moms for anything.
• 40:20
  For anything.
• 40:21
  Yeah.
• 40:22
  Because it's like there.
• 40:23
  Yeah.
• 40:23
  It's like a whole family system.
• 40:25
  Like, you gotta do what works for the whole family.
• 40:27
  Your whole family.
• 40:28
  You can't just.
• 40:29
  Or the government really needs to support moms and pay them to be moms.
• 40:32
  Oh, yes, yes.
• 40:33
  That would be so nice if there was more support.
• 40:36
  Yes.
• 40:37
  If I hear one more politician say we need to enhance the birth rate, it's like, okay, pay for it.
• 40:43
  Help us.
• 40:44
  I will gladly have more children if you pay me.
• 40:46
  If you pay me, if you make.
• 40:48
  I will raise them and take care of them.
• 40:50
  I'm doing it without you paying me, figuring it out.
• 40:53
  But, like, if you want more, like,.
• 40:55
  The incentive, a great incentive.
• 40:56
  The free trial with my one baby is up.
• 40:59
  If you want more, you gotta subscribe.
• 41:02
  I've proven I can do it.
• 41:03
  I can do it.
• 41:05
  Pay me.
• 41:06
  Right.
• 41:06
  You want a bigger workforce, Pay me.
• 41:09
  Well, and in other countries, they do make it, you know, financially more feasible for moms to go to work, you know, where the childcare is free or inexpensive.
• 41:23
  So it's much easier for a mom to go to work.
• 41:25
  Yeah.
• 41:26
  One of the prohibitive things in this country is, like, it often you have to spend more on childcare than salary.
• 41:32
  I think she talks about that where.
• 41:34
  She's like, she does.
• 41:35
  You have to decide if, like, because you're gonna go to work to make this amount of salary, and what are you paying someone to watch your kid while you're.
• 41:41
  And it's like, that's a real debate in the family.
• 41:44
  And it isn't just about the money you are losing at that time.
• 41:48
  If you have a career, obviously the longer you're in a career, your earnings compound.
• 41:53
  Yeah.
• 41:53
  You know, and if you take a step away, you don't often come back to the same position that you left.
• 41:59
  And so you're not even just starting where you left.
• 42:02
  You're starting at a.
• 42:03
  At a more disadvantage managed position.
• 42:06
  Yeah.
• 42:06
  And you know, doesn't have this problem is dads.
• 42:12
  No one asks them.
• 42:13
  Not yet.
• 42:14
  Not yet.
• 42:14
  They don't.
• 42:15
  Yes.
• 42:15
  It is, I guess, getting more and more common that dads take.
• 42:19
  Helping take the home position.
• 42:21
  Yeah.
• 42:22
  Right.
• 42:22
  Which, listen, I respect it.
• 42:24
  I respect it too.
• 42:25
  If it makes sense.
• 42:26
  Why not?
• 42:27
  But I can't imagine that the man choosing to take the home position is in a very, very, like, high.
• 42:32
  He's like very high.
• 42:33
  In a career oriented path where he's like striving for something.
• 42:37
  Right, Totally.
• 42:38
  It seems like the debate is like, who stays home is kind of the person who.
• 42:43
  Who can.
• 42:43
  Yeah.
• 42:44
  Who can.
• 42:44
  Or who's making less.
• 42:45
  Yes.
• 42:46
  Who can we afford to pull from the workforce?
• 42:48
  Exactly.
• 42:49
  Do you watch family?
• 42:50
  Do you watch Mormon Wives?
• 42:52
  I made my mom watch an episode of this.
• 42:54
  Well, yeah.
• 42:55
  Okay.
• 42:55
  Yeah.
• 42:57
  One interesting thing about this show is on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.
• 43:01
  In this current season, I think it was like season four or five that I have recently seen these girls who are Mormon come from a very patriarchal community.
• 43:14
  All their husbands are stay at home husbands now because these girls are raking it in doing brand deals and the.
• 43:23
  Show on social media, Dancing with the.
• 43:25
  Stars and all this stuff.
• 43:27
  And it's honestly, it's been so interesting watching that show.
• 43:31
  The arc of these guys.
• 43:32
  One of them started out as like, he's like, I'm gonna go to medical school.
• 43:36
  And he has, like, given that up for the time being to take care of their kids.
• 43:42
  And they had a very difficult relationship where there was a lot of misogyny, a lot of stuff going on.
• 43:48
  And watching how one husband has been an absolute just angel the whole time.
• 43:55
  But it's just amazing to see sort of how the they've just out of necessity, because their wives are making such obscene amounts of money.
• 44:03
  Oh, wow.
• 44:04
  That they're like, all right.
• 44:05
  You see them.
• 44:05
  So the role is just reversed.
• 44:08
  And it's actually in a culture where that is not done.
• 44:10
  Yeah.
• 44:11
  So that's kind of interesting.
• 44:12
  Have they been ostracized?
• 44:14
  No, they haven't quite been ostracized.
• 44:15
  I was seeing my mom.
• 44:16
  What's interesting about this show is like they're sort of treating.
• 44:20
  Initially they were very stressed out about, I imagine the church LDS was very stressed out.
• 44:25
  Cause they're like, oh, my God.
• 44:25
  These girls like booty dancing on TikTok.
• 44:28
  This is not how we want to be represented.
• 44:30
  Yeah.
• 44:30
  Wow.
• 44:31
  I need to watch this.
• 44:32
  I mean, you have to.
• 44:33
  It's crazy, but it's really apparently driven conversions to LDS because people see these beautiful young women with, like, their broods of eight children, like, doing saucy dances.
• 44:47
  And so now the church is like, they're missionaries.
• 44:49
  Oh, that's interesting.
• 44:51
  I'm like, go on.
• 44:52
  I love this.
• 44:53
  I love this.
• 44:54
  But the dynamic between the husbands and wives has it.
• 44:57
  Like, what choice do they have?
• 44:59
  I mean, their wives are the breadwinners.
• 45:01
  Not to say that if you're making the money, you should be running the relationship, because I disagree with that.
• 45:06
  But the dynamic shift is really cool to see.
• 45:10
  You know, it's like, they're doing it, and they're doing it well.
• 45:13
  They're committed.
• 45:14
  These guys have, like, three babies strapped to their bodies.
• 45:16
  They're holding hands, they're supporting their wives, and these, like, crazy dreams.
• 45:21
  Oh, my gosh, this is great.
• 45:22
  Oh, God, I love this.
• 45:25
  That's funny.
• 45:26
  All right, well, let's look at daycare.
• 45:29
  Okay.
• 45:30
  Who should care for the baby?
• 45:31
  And there's actually studies, because this is a question many of us have, which is, is it better?
• 45:39
  Is daycare better having a nanny?
• 45:41
  Better having a family member watch the baby?
• 45:45
  And the study actually concluded that attending a higher quality daycare strongly correlated with better child language development.
• 45:58
  Kids who went to better daycare centers talk more, and they assess the quality, as long as it's a good one.
• 46:06
  Is it because there are kids, more kids to talk to?
• 46:09
  I guess because they were around more children.
• 46:11
  They said that if they were in daycare during the first 18 months of their life, that was associated with lower cognitive outcomes.
• 46:21
  But if they were in daycare from, you know, 18 months to 4.5, higher cognitive outcomes.
• 46:30
  So they said also, according to the study, kids in daycare are not less attached to their mothers.
• 46:36
  And I remember in being there, the author said that, you know, going to daycare was terrible, and it was akin.
• 46:42
  To abandoning your child.
• 46:44
  Very bad testing, mom can actually be used in many different ways and not just for when you are studying for that test, because the academic rigor in public schools or private schools, really, really elementary school doesn't really kick
• 46:58
  in until the later years in your middle school or high school years.
• 47:02
  I did have my girls continuously use the website for content just to kind of have some extra learning.
• 47:11
  Our school didn't provide homework for the kids until fourth grade.
• 47:14
  And so you just want a little bit more Academic rigor.
• 47:17
  And so whether it was studying vocabulary or looking at content for various other exams that are out there, that was really helpful for us to just complement their learning while they were in school as well.
• 47:30
  For attachment, she said quality parenting is what matters the most for good attachment.
• 47:38
  And she said at the end of the day, childcare quality matters more than anything else.
• 47:44
  If it's a good daycare center, that's better than an indifferent nanny or an indifferent family member who's not really paying attention.
• 47:52
  So you just have to choose the best option you can find for your family.
• 47:58
  You know, whatever it is, the nanny is not necessarily better just because it's an individual, if they're on their phone all the time or whatever.
• 48:08
  But, you know, we had a great experience with a nanny.
• 48:14
  We were very lucky.
• 48:16
  But I had friends who sent their kids to daycare.
• 48:19
  They had great experiences.
• 48:20
  Cause they found good daycare.
• 48:22
  So, yeah, we went the nanny route and she's with her now.
• 48:28
  Oh, okay.
• 48:29
  Our nanny is still.
• 48:30
  Still with you?
• 48:31
  She's not still with us.
• 48:32
  Like, we've moved around from state to state, but she's just continued on.
• 48:36
  Every time we are in New York or every time we're like, here, she goes.
• 48:38
  Goes and stays with.
• 48:40
  Yeah, they're like.
• 48:40
  It's like the bond is like.
• 48:42
  They're like a family, you know?
• 48:43
  So we had a good experience with that.
• 48:44
  That's wonderful.
• 48:45
  But I think that is what it is, too.
• 48:46
  It's like quality.
• 48:47
  She's like our family.
• 48:48
  Yeah.
• 48:48
  You know?
• 48:49
  Yeah, it's quality.
• 48:51
  Yeah, Absolutely.
• 48:52
  Yeah.
• 48:53
  Oh, she loves banks.
• 48:54
  Their relationship is so sweet.
• 48:55
  I know.
• 48:56
  It's very sweet.
• 48:59
  I love her daughter, too.
• 49:00
  Yeah.
• 49:01
  Their whole family is great.
• 49:03
  Yeah.
• 49:03
  Their whole family.
• 49:04
  They take our dog, too.
• 49:05
  They like.
• 49:06
  It's a.
• 49:06
  Like, they're.
• 49:07
  It's meshed.
• 49:08
  Yeah, it's deeply meshed.
• 49:09
  Yeah.
• 49:10
  It's so true.
• 49:11
  It's so true.
• 49:12
  It's so nice to have someone like that, Especially because of your traveling and travel schedules.
• 49:16
  Just like if for whatever reason, you just know you have someone who you trust implicitly, which is nice.
• 49:24
  So there's a lot of topics to cover.
• 49:26
  Do you think we should pick just the top one?
• 49:29
  Sure.
• 49:29
  What do you think?
• 49:30
  We can pick that.
• 49:31
  Which ones are most interesting to you?
• 49:33
  To me, personally.
• 49:34
  Yeah.
• 49:34
  I feel like we just did a lot of sleep stuff.
• 49:36
  We just did a whole.
• 49:37
  We can maybe skip that.
• 49:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:41
  So we can pass on that, right?
• 49:44
  Solid foods.
• 49:45
  Yeah.
• 49:45
  Talk about that.
• 49:47
  Early exposure to allergens, I.e.
• 49:49
  Peanuts, sesame, things like that.
• 49:52
  Often reduces incidence of food allergies.
• 49:55
  So the idea is you want to give your kids common allergens early and pretty frequently and in the hopes of preventing anything from developing.
• 50:06
  Have you been doing that?
• 50:07
  Okay.
• 50:08
  Did you do that?
• 50:10
  I don't remember doing it in, like, a systematic way, but I think I just did not give her stuff.
• 50:16
  Yeah.
• 50:16
  When did you start giving her solids?
• 50:18
  Probably six months.
• 50:19
  Yeah, we started around then, too.
• 50:21
  And I don't think we went in the order suggested.
• 50:24
  I think we, like.
• 50:25
  She was, like, not into the cereal, so we were, like.
• 50:28
  We were doing, like, frozen.
• 50:29
  Yeah, we started with, like, frozen fruits or something maybe, and then, like, these, like, meat pouches that, like, serenity kids used to make that was, like, meat, and.
• 50:38
  Yeah.
• 50:38
  We went straight in for, like.
• 50:40
  Yeah.
• 50:40
  Wow.
• 50:41
  Okay.
• 50:41
  Okay.
• 50:41
  The kill.
• 50:42
  But she liked it.
• 50:43
  She loved it.
• 50:44
  Okay.
• 50:44
  Yeah.
• 50:45
  She was a meat pouch baby.
• 50:46
  A meat pouch.
• 50:47
  She likes protein.
• 50:49
  Meat pouch.
• 50:51
  Okay.
• 50:52
  Oh, my God.
• 50:54
  I'm obsessed with cooking for my baby.
• 50:56
  Everything she eats, I cook.
• 50:59
  And I'm, like, obsessed with her not having sugar.
• 51:01
  It's my.
• 51:02
  Truly, my fatal flaw.
• 51:04
  Most annoying quality as a parent is, like, anytime anybody wants to give her something, I'm like, no refined sugar.
• 51:10
  No sugar.
• 51:11
  Yeah.
• 51:11
  No refined sugar.
• 51:12
  The second they start to like it.
• 51:14
  Yeah.
• 51:14
  You don't want to eat just once they like it.
• 51:16
  Well, I gave my baby lemonade once.
• 51:19
  Big mistake.
• 51:19
  Did she?
• 51:20
  Lemonade.
• 51:20
  Big mistake.
• 51:21
  She went completely feral.
• 51:22
  She wouldn't consume anything else for the rest of the day, so she had lemonade for dinner.
• 51:28
  It was the first time I've ever been, like, afraid of my baby.
• 51:31
  Yeah.
• 51:32
  I don't know her.
• 51:33
  Oh, wow.
• 51:34
  So.
• 51:34
  Yeah.
• 51:35
  Yeah.
• 51:35
  And luckily my husband was there, too, because he's like, what's a little sugar?
• 51:39
  And I'm like, this.
• 51:39
  That.
• 51:40
  Yeah.
• 51:40
  Gremlin.
• 51:41
  Yeah.
• 51:42
  That's what you get.
• 51:43
  It's real.
• 51:43
  Yeah, it's real.
• 51:45
  It's so real.
• 51:46
  But other solid stuff, like, she'll.
• 51:47
  I kind of just like, give her stuff like, she loves bread, so I'll give her, like, the end of bread.
• 51:52
  Yeah.
• 51:52
  Things that she can hold and gnaw.
• 51:55
  For a long time.
• 51:55
  Yeah.
• 51:56
  Yeah.
• 51:56
  Gnawing is good.
• 51:57
  Anything she can like that.
• 51:59
  That she can get chunks off of, I'm a little more.
• 52:02
  Yeah, exactly.
• 52:04
  In the book, it's like, they give you, like, this whole order, and I think I followed the order from years ago, but that's how old this American Academy of Pediatrics information is, because it's exactly what I did with
• 52:17
  skylar When.
• 52:18
  Yeah.
• 52:19
  Lot.
• 52:19
  30 years ago, I got allergies, but.
• 52:22
  My allergies didn't develop until I was.
• 52:24
  It's a later.
• 52:25
  Yeah.
• 52:26
  You didn't get them as a baby,.
• 52:27
  But you did get them later.
• 52:28
  What do you.
• 52:29
  Allergic to?
• 52:29
  Avocados.
• 52:30
  Really?
• 52:31
  I know, it's the worst.
• 52:32
  That's crazy.
• 52:33
  Right?
• 52:34
  At, like, the height of avocado toast.
• 52:36
  Oh, my gosh.
• 52:36
  Then my body was like, no.
• 52:38
  Oh, wow.
• 52:39
  No more.
• 52:40
  It's fine.
• 52:40
  That's crazy.
• 52:42
  Oh, my God.
• 52:44
  Well, then she talks about the studies around food pickiness.
• 52:50
  And she said kids become Pickier around age 2, and then they grow out of it in their elementary years.
• 52:57
  She said, don't use threats or reward land when trying to get kids to eat.
• 53:02
  Like, don't say, like, if you eat your peas, I'll give you dessert.
• 53:06
  Which, of course, is what was done to me.
• 53:08
  Smartering.
• 53:08
  Oh, I do that.
• 53:10
  Yeah, but you're not supposed to.
• 53:12
  And she says instead, you should use supportive prompts like, hey, prunes are like big raisins.
• 53:18
  You might like them.
• 53:19
  That's what she says.
• 53:21
  So deceive your children is what she said.
• 53:23
  Just like the data shows that prunes are actually, actually not like big raises.
• 53:33
  Well, and then here's.
• 53:35
  I thought this was important.
• 53:37
  Studies show that food refusal is more common in families where parents offer an alternative.
• 53:42
  And I think that's a good thing to know, because in my family, we did offer alternatives, and that was the kiss of death, because that meant my son would not eat anything.
• 53:53
  But.
• 53:54
  But, like, shake and bake.
• 53:56
  Shake and bake.
• 53:57
  He liked shake and bake chicken.
• 53:59
  It is good, though.
• 54:00
  And he would eat.
• 54:01
  He would eat macaroni and cheese.
• 54:03
  I mean, only things that little kids will eat.
• 54:08
  Because he wouldn't eat anything healthy that we tried to give him once he knew that there were alternatives.
• 54:15
  So I think it is better to just say, here's all your choices.
• 54:20
  Pick whatever you want from this array of food that you have available.
• 54:24
  It saves you from, like, making two meals or, like.
• 54:28
  Yes.
• 54:28
  And, like, you know, there's this.
• 54:30
  I read a study that was like, your child will be fine if they go to bed hungry.
• 54:33
  Yeah.
• 54:34
  So just like, you put out what you eat.
• 54:36
  If they don't eat it, they're hungry.
• 54:38
  And then eventually they'll eat because they'll be hungry.
• 54:40
  Yeah, exactly.
• 54:42
  That's why they say you should offer healthier foods.
• 54:45
  Foods first, like vegetables, things you want them to eat while they're hungry.
• 54:50
  Yeah, yeah.
• 54:50
  It's also, I mean, there's that other book we read about French kids.
• 54:53
  Where they really discourage snacking.
• 54:56
  Yeah, snacking is the.
• 54:58
  Yeah, that's what really gets them because they'll fill up on snacks.
• 55:00
  Right.
• 55:01
  But it's also that idea, that emotional concept where it's like, I'm bored, I'm gonna eat.
• 55:07
  I'm sad.
• 55:07
  I'm gonna eat.
• 55:08
  I'm excited.
• 55:09
  I'm gonna eat.
• 55:10
  And watching a show, I'm gonna eat.
• 55:12
  And it's like, it's sort of.
• 55:13
  You want to try and not train your kids, but sort of show them that there are times that we eat.
• 55:20
  And it's not like you just eat constantly, you know, like, you eat during these times, and then you will probably have a relatively balanced enough diet and typically be healthier.
• 55:32
  But it's like the snacking is not ideal.
• 55:37
  No, that's true.
• 55:39
  Well, so now we get into toddlerhood, and I guess, let's see.
• 55:47
  They're going to look at.
• 55:49
  They're looking at early walking and late walking.
• 55:53
  And she says if your child has any developmental delays, physical or mental.
• 55:58
  Early intervention is an excellent government program.
• 56:01
  That is true.
• 56:03
  So if you're worried about anything when they're really young.
• 56:07
  We used early intervention with Sam.
• 56:10
  Then we got lots of extra.
• 56:11
  Oh, yeah.
• 56:12
  For occupational therapy.
• 56:13
  We got lots of services.
• 56:15
  It was great.
• 56:17
  And, you know, they look at your child's milestones.
• 56:21
  That's really important as they're getting older.
• 56:26
  And then ear infections, she says, are the most common complication from cold.
• 56:31
  And I remember we dealt with a lot of ear infections.
• 56:34
  Sam had ear infections.
• 56:35
  Ben did, too.
• 56:36
  And I wonder if it's more like a boy thing.
• 56:38
  I don't know.
• 56:39
  I've never really heard of, like, girls.
• 56:41
  A lot of boys do get them.
• 56:42
  I don't know why, but that is interesting.
• 56:47
  But.
• 56:47
  But the thing to know about ear infections is if your child gets multiple ear infections, you really have to watch that because that will lead to cognitive delays.
• 56:59
  At least that's what happened to us, to Sam.
• 57:01
  Because he couldn't hear, so.
• 57:03
  Because he couldn't hear, he wasn't hearing words and his language wasn't developing.
• 57:08
  So you've got to really watch that if that starts to happen.
• 57:11
  Yeah, she didn't say that.
• 57:12
  I'm just saying that that was hard to say.
• 57:14
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:16
  So anyway, TV for little kids.
• 57:19
  Oh, man.
• 57:19
  She says babies zero to two can't learn anything from television.
• 57:24
  So don't.
• 57:24
  I mean, you can show them.
• 57:26
  Boy, they are mesmerized.
• 57:28
  Crazy.
• 57:29
  My mom was babysitting the baby the other day, and she's like, I found this video of Dancing AI babies.
• 57:36
  Oh, my God.
• 57:37
  And Lenny was transfixed.
• 57:39
  Yeah, she was like.
• 57:42
  She'd never seen anything like it.
• 57:43
  It was like these babies dressed as vegetables.
• 57:46
  Like all these little, like little garlic babies and eggplant babies.
• 57:49
  And they were dancing and she's to the beat and.
• 57:53
  And Lenny was just like, didn't want me to turn it off.
• 57:55
  And I'm like, wow.
• 57:56
  I understand why parents, you know, rely on these screens.
• 58:00
  It's like.
• 58:00
  But no, it's not good.
• 58:02
  I know it's not good.
• 58:03
  But she does say that a 3 to 5 year old can learn from screens.
• 58:08
  If you're watching Sesame street or educational programming, that's okay.
• 58:12
  The content is important.
• 58:13
  Yes, Very Real Housewives.
• 58:15
  Less ideal.
• 58:17
  Although my daughter is absorbing a lot by osmosis.
• 58:21
  I bet she is.
• 58:22
  Yeah.
• 58:22
  You really.
• 58:23
  Because I know.
• 58:23
  Which is so sassy.
• 58:25
  Later on you'll know.
• 58:26
  It's like you're starting to sound like Ramona.
• 58:30
  That's bad talking.
• 58:32
  Is she still on Ramona?
• 58:33
  No.
• 58:34
  God, Ramona is like 40 scandals deep.
• 58:37
  Okay.
• 58:37
  She was almost asked.
• 58:38
  Jill Zarin was recently asked.
• 58:40
  Axed from their Palm beach show.
• 58:43
  So another network picked them up.
• 58:44
  Now they're all living in Palm beach or wintering.
• 58:48
  I don't know, whatever it is that they do.
• 58:50
  But yeah.
• 58:50
  Luann, Sonia, Ramona and Kelly Bensimone.
• 58:54
  Wow.
• 58:55
  So crazy.
• 58:56
  Oh, God.
• 58:57
  Okay.
• 58:58
  New New York Housewives.
• 58:59
  All right, let's keep.
• 59:00
  Let's keep going.
• 59:01
  Doctors will check vocabulary milestones with your child at 2.
• 59:05
  They'll ask if a child has 25 words they say regularly.
• 59:08
  Does that sound about right?
• 59:09
  Yeah, that's what they ask.
• 59:11
  Yeah.
• 59:11
  Yeah.
• 59:11
  But do.
• 59:12
  Do they have 25 words?
• 59:13
  They should have way more than 25 words.
• 59:16
  But I think 25 is kind of like, like the minimum to understand if there's a delay.
• 59:23
  Yeah.
• 59:25
  It's not that.
• 59:25
  They should only have 25 words.
• 59:29
  If they know more than 25, we've got to call someone.
• 59:31
  Yeah.
• 59:32
  They're like, it doesn't mean your kid's a genius.
• 59:34
  They can do 25 words.
• 59:36
  My child knows 26.
• 59:38
  And so smart.
• 59:39
  So smart, so smart.
• 59:40
  Above average.
• 59:42
  But the receptive language, language, meaning what they understand, is usually way more than what they can say.
• 59:48
  That's scary.
• 59:48
  That's good.
• 59:50
  When can they start?
• 59:52
  Like, when they listen to you, when do they start, like, remembering stuff?
• 59:56
  Well, it's hard.
• 59:58
  I don't know.
• 59:58
  It's hard to know if they're remembering, I think because it's most of the time they're imitating.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, they're just like repeating.
• 1:00:04
  So they're like a sponge that just regurgitates.
• 1:00:07
  Yeah.
• 1:00:08
  But who knows?
• 1:00:08
  Like, remembering, I think has to do with some kind of understanding.
• 1:00:11
  Maybe memory understanding.
• 1:00:13
  Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  I'm like, can I never ever say a curse word in front of my baby?
• 1:00:19
  Well, good luck.
• 1:00:20
  When will she know?
• 1:00:22
  Because they'll pick it up.
• 1:00:23
  That's my wheel.
• 1:00:24
  Pick it up.
• 1:00:25
  Banks.
• 1:00:25
  Yes.
• 1:00:26
  Definitely had a potty mouth at school.
• 1:00:29
  Like, it was bad.
• 1:00:29
  And she went to, like, a Mandarin immersion school, obviously, so Brooklyn.
• 1:00:35
  Oh, my God.
• 1:00:36
  And you know, for.
• 1:00:38
  They only spoke Mandarin.
• 1:00:39
  And then she would throw some F bombs in and there'd be like, look, it's.
• 1:00:43
  It's all good, but please do.
• 1:00:45
  The kids are starting to pick up on it.
• 1:00:47
  Like, the other kids are starting to realize that that's not like a Mandarin word.
• 1:00:50
  Like, oh, my God.
• 1:00:52
  Oh, no.
• 1:00:53
  She strikes me as the kind of kid that other kids would follow.
• 1:00:56
  Oh, and she's very much a leader.
• 1:00:58
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:59
  She's a serious kid.
• 1:01:00
  Oh, my God.
• 1:01:01
  I love her.
• 1:01:02
  Oh, my God.
• 1:01:03
  And girls, speaking of which, develop language faster than boys.
• 1:01:07
  Girls develop generally faster.
• 1:01:09
  They do when they're younger.
• 1:01:11
  That's true.
• 1:01:12
  That is true.
• 1:01:12
  Yeah.
• 1:01:13
  Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  Then she gets into potty training and she used the book.
• 1:01:21
  Oh, crap, Potty training, which we will cover later.
• 1:01:24
  We're gonna cover.
• 1:01:25
  So she said she really liked that book, and so I've heard good things about that book.
• 1:01:28
  We're gonna cover it.
• 1:01:30
  Did you use that book?
• 1:01:31
  I don't remember.
• 1:01:32
  Which.
• 1:01:32
  I think I did like a version of the three day potty training.
• 1:01:37
  It's just like, it's.
• 1:01:39
  I think it's all kind of the same method where it's like you just take the diapers away.
• 1:01:43
  You.
• 1:01:44
  She ran around the house naked.
• 1:01:46
  Like an immersion thing.
• 1:01:47
  We put like.
• 1:01:47
  We got our steps to the toilet and we just like, asked her all the time if she needed to pee.
• 1:01:51
  And there was like a lot of pee on the floor.
• 1:01:53
  Like, you know, it was like a moment where we had to, you know, and it was right before she started school.
• 1:02:02
  She had to be potty trained to go to school.
• 1:02:04
  Oh, that's interesting.
• 1:02:05
  Well, that's what she said.
• 1:02:06
  Is that.
• 1:02:07
  Well, that a lot.
• 1:02:07
  How old?
• 1:02:08
  When do you do do this?
• 1:02:09
  She was two.
• 1:02:10
  Okay, so that's reasonable.
• 1:02:12
  Yeah.
• 1:02:13
  That's young.
• 1:02:13
  Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  I'm hoping I can do that at two also.
• 1:02:17
  They also potty trained her at school still.
• 1:02:19
  But it was like, we needed to be.
• 1:02:21
  You had to be partly There.
• 1:02:23
  You had to be a part of this.
• 1:02:24
  They weren't going to do it.
• 1:02:25
  They can't do it alone.
• 1:02:26
  Yeah.
• 1:02:26
  It can't happen there and then.
• 1:02:27
  Not at home.
• 1:02:28
  So you have to, like, in tandem.
• 1:02:30
  Yes.
• 1:02:31
  You have to cooperate with each other.
• 1:02:32
  This is a group effort.
• 1:02:34
  That's so, so funny.
• 1:02:34
  It takes a village.
• 1:02:35
  Truly.
• 1:02:36
  She said.
• 1:02:37
  She talked about stool toileting, refusal, a child who can pee in the toilet, but who will only poop in the diaper.
• 1:02:45
  About 25% of kids experience this.
• 1:02:49
  I had to bring this up because that was you.
• 1:02:51
  Is that you?
• 1:02:52
  I knew it.
• 1:02:53
  I was resistant.
• 1:02:54
  I was very, very resistant.
• 1:02:56
  She really was.
• 1:02:57
  And it was like, okay, so she would not.
• 1:03:02
  She would not poop in the toilet no matter what we did.
• 1:03:05
  So finally, Mark and I, I guess we went out of town, and she would hold it all day till I would get home, and as soon as Bev would leave, she would come to me and tell me she
• 1:03:16
  had a poop.
• 1:03:17
  So he was saving it for me.
• 1:03:20
  And so.
• 1:03:20
  You're welcome.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah, I was getting comfortable, so I couldn't get you to go in the toilet.
• 1:03:24
  And so finally one day we went out of town, and the end of the day, you're like, where's Mommy?
• 1:03:30
  And she's like, well, Mommy and Daddy.
• 1:03:32
  Remember, they went on a trip.
• 1:03:33
  When are they coming back?
• 1:03:36
  In 10 days.
• 1:03:37
  Oh, no.
• 1:03:38
  And Skylar, that's when she got potty trained because she just said, oh, wow.
• 1:03:42
  Because I had no choice.
• 1:03:43
  Well, she could do it.
• 1:03:44
  I mean, she was holding back because she liked not going in the.
• 1:03:49
  Yeah.
• 1:03:49
  What can I say?
• 1:03:50
  Yeah, she liked it.
• 1:03:52
  I mean, they say, like, once your baby is, like, annoyed by the poop in their diaper, once they know, like, that's.
• 1:03:59
  Yeah, they don't like that feeling.
• 1:04:00
  They don't like the feeling anymore.
• 1:04:01
  But.
• 1:04:01
  Yeah, I guess.
• 1:04:02
  But they don't not like it until suddenly, maybe they experience life without it, I guess.
• 1:04:08
  I don't know.
• 1:04:09
  You don't know what you got until you get rid of it.
• 1:04:11
  Suddenly it's gone.
• 1:04:12
  You're like, oh, this is nice.
• 1:04:14
  I feel clean.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  So funny.
• 1:04:18
  Okay.
• 1:04:19
  Toddler discipline.
• 1:04:21
  This is hard.
• 1:04:23
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:23
  They.
• 1:04:24
  They say that.
• 1:04:24
  What?
• 1:04:25
  Toddlers aren't super receptive to discipline until, like, 15 months.
• 1:04:29
  That's, like, when they can start to process that, like, something is bad.
• 1:04:33
  Right?
• 1:04:34
  Oh, okay.
• 1:04:35
  Well, she said.
• 1:04:35
  She's saying it's more about teaching with toddlers.
• 1:04:38
  It's more about teaching them, you know, an education, teaching them to take more responsibility.
• 1:04:46
  You know, that as opposed to punishing.
• 1:04:49
  That's what she says.
• 1:04:50
  Yeah.
• 1:04:50
  Right.
• 1:04:51
  And she says, this is where she says there are evidence based, based discipline systems like 1, 2, 3, magic, which you and I really hated.
• 1:04:59
  Book on Earth.
• 1:05:00
  We didn't like it, but they emphasized the reward systems and you know, punishment and reward and that they work.
• 1:05:09
  We just didn't like it because we didn't feel like the kid learned anything.
• 1:05:13
  Right.
• 1:05:13
  You know, so.
• 1:05:14
  Yeah, just because it works doesn't mean it's like the best choice.
• 1:05:18
  Well, it works for parents.
• 1:05:19
  Parents like it because their kids listen.
• 1:05:22
  But.
• 1:05:22
  And in the short term it's fine.
• 1:05:23
  But if you're never learning about the behavior that are getting you punished, how are you gonna like curb that?
• 1:05:31
  But do you do like the talk it out thing instead and be like, this is.
• 1:05:35
  I don't think so.
• 1:05:37
  Where's the middle ground?
• 1:05:38
  Yeah.
• 1:05:38
  Because toddlers can't be reasoned with, you know, so it's like you sort of have to just in three words or less give them the gist.
• 1:05:46
  Yeah.
• 1:05:47
  And then be like, no climb stairs.
• 1:05:50
  Yeah.
• 1:05:51
  And you hope that they can like process that and retain it.
• 1:05:55
  Yeah.
• 1:05:55
  I don't know.
• 1:05:55
  You probably just young.
• 1:05:56
  It's like maybe they just learn from experience.
• 1:05:58
  Experience.
• 1:05:59
  Yeah.
• 1:06:00
  Well, you don't want to fall down a couple times.
• 1:06:02
  Yeah.
• 1:06:04
  Okay.
• 1:06:05
  Oh my God.
• 1:06:06
  I know.
• 1:06:06
  Well, that happened to my brother once.
• 1:06:09
  Down a whole stairwell.
• 1:06:11
  It was so scary.
• 1:06:12
  Okay, maybe not that.
• 1:06:13
  Well, yeah, not life threatening.
• 1:06:16
  Not a whole.
• 1:06:18
  Yeah.
• 1:06:18
  Not a whole flight.
• 1:06:19
  Then listen.
• 1:06:20
  Yeah, right.
• 1:06:21
  He survived.
• 1:06:22
  And she did say for it.
• 1:06:24
  There is.
• 1:06:25
  There are studies on spanking, she said, and there's no evidence it improves behavior.
• 1:06:30
  Behavior.
• 1:06:32
  There are studies that show negative short term behavior problems later for kids who were spanked.
• 1:06:38
  So obvious.
• 1:06:39
  I mean, you hear that?
• 1:06:40
  So.
• 1:06:40
  Yeah, don't buy your kids.
• 1:06:42
  I buy it.
• 1:06:43
  Then again, it's also like all of the conditioning around it.
• 1:06:46
  Like, like parents who are typical to like, like families are like, if there's like all these other information that we're, that they're not taking into account about like the environment that the child is in when they're giving.
• 1:06:56
  Getting this spanking and like, you know, the, the, the, the, the trajectory towards spanking as like not being like, you can't do it when you're angry.
• 1:07:06
  Yeah.
• 1:07:06
  Right, but it's like who spanks their kid when they're not angry?
• 1:07:09
  Yeah.
• 1:07:10
  I mean, like, who's like, okay, in 10 minutes when I calm down, I'm gonna.
• 1:07:13
  You're gonna get a, you're gonna get a spanking reactionary.
• 1:07:16
  I mean, I don't know that I have that in me.
• 1:07:17
  I couldn't.
• 1:07:18
  Yeah.
• 1:07:19
  Yeah.
• 1:07:19
  I couldn't do that.
• 1:07:20
  Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  But if you're for it, I'd like.
• 1:07:22
  I'm.
• 1:07:23
  I'm curious.
• 1:07:24
  I have so many questions about the spanking itself.
• 1:07:26
  Like, what is it?
• 1:07:28
  Does it hurt?
• 1:07:28
  Yeah.
• 1:07:30
  Was it just embarrassment at that point?
• 1:07:31
  Like, what is the actual spanking?
• 1:07:33
  Yeah.
• 1:07:34
  What works about this?
• 1:07:34
  Are we pulling our pants down?
• 1:07:36
  What's happening?
• 1:07:36
  Yeah, you know.
• 1:07:38
  No, I remember that my parents would spank me, but this was, you know, long time ago.
• 1:07:45
  That spanking was.
• 1:07:46
  Yeah, everybody did.
• 1:07:48
  But I used to have to wait for my father to get home to get the spanking.
• 1:07:51
  So the anticipation.
• 1:07:53
  The person who did it, who spanked me wasn't the one who was usually mad at me.
• 1:07:59
  It was my dad when he got home from work.
• 1:08:01
  I'm sure he came home.
• 1:08:02
  He was happy to.
• 1:08:03
  Oh, sure.
• 1:08:04
  Happy to give her a spanking for.
• 1:08:06
  Something she did today.
• 1:08:08
  And I remember putting, like, a book in my underwear that I had this little flat bottom.
• 1:08:14
  I could trick him into, like, you know, he could spank me and I wouldn't feel it.
• 1:08:19
  Kid logic is amazing.
• 1:08:21
  It's amazing.
• 1:08:23
  Yeah.
• 1:08:23
  Really?
• 1:08:24
  Kid logic is amazing.
• 1:08:25
  Anyway.
• 1:08:26
  Oh, God.
• 1:08:27
  And then after this, I think she gets into.
• 1:08:30
  There's just a little bit more.
• 1:08:31
  I think she gets into education and she gets into marriage.
• 1:08:36
  She says marital satisfaction declines after children, but they, you know, if you were happy ahead of children, you'll probably.
• 1:08:45
  You'll be happy.
• 1:08:46
  You will be happy again.
• 1:08:47
  We'll be happy again.
• 1:08:48
  Yes.
• 1:08:49
  Someday.
• 1:08:49
  Day.
• 1:08:50
  Well, the first six months after you have a baby, I feel like there's this period where you're sort of renegotiating your dynamic with your partner where it's like you have all this new stuff.
• 1:09:00
  To take care of together.
• 1:09:02
  Who's gonna do it all?
• 1:09:03
  Who's gonna do it all?
• 1:09:04
  Plus, as the woman, you are still healing, you know, and not just physically, but psychologically, too.
• 1:09:13
  And it's like, no, I don't wanna tell you what to do.
• 1:09:16
  I don't want to delegate.
• 1:09:18
  I want you to just see things that need to be done and do.
• 1:09:22
  That as a woman.
• 1:09:24
  The psychological toll of delegation.
• 1:09:26
  I may as well do it myself.
• 1:09:29
  Yeah.
• 1:09:29
  But I feel like.
• 1:09:30
  But that's why people aren't happy in marriage right away, because men are like,.
• 1:09:34
  Well, I don't know what.
• 1:09:35
  I just don't know what they need.
• 1:09:36
  They're like, it doesn't want me and I can't do Anything like their mindset is like, I'll just go do stuff over here.
• 1:09:42
  Yeah.
• 1:09:42
  Because I'm not here.
• 1:09:43
  Call me if you need me.
• 1:09:44
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:45
  I think there's like a fear of being in the way.
• 1:09:47
  For sure.
• 1:09:48
  Uhhuh.
• 1:09:49
  You know, so anyway, and then on birth spacing, she says there's no D data, no studies about that.
• 1:09:56
  So yeah, it's.
• 1:09:57
  You're on your own.
• 1:09:58
  Just whatever makes sense for your family.
• 1:10:03
  And.
• 1:10:04
  And she said the best advice she ever got, she said she was taking a trip to France.
• 1:10:09
  She consulted her pediatrician about what to do if her daughter happened to get stung by a bee when they were there and should she test for bee allergies ahead of time.
• 1:10:19
  And the doctor said, you know, I wouldn't even think about it.
• 1:10:23
  It could happen, but so could a million other things.
• 1:10:25
  Just let it go, go and you'll deal with it if it happens.
• 1:10:30
  She said that was actually the best advice.
• 1:10:32
  Because this, you know, I mean, Emily, you know, she is data based and relies on data a lot.
• 1:10:40
  But at a certain point, like, you just have to decide side, I think.
• 1:10:43
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:44
  And you gotta live your life right.
• 1:10:45
  Right.
• 1:10:46
  Without fear.
• 1:10:48
  It's like the world's a crazy place and I feel like if you're constantly anticipating bad things happening, you invite them in.
• 1:10:54
  Yeah, maybe that's superstitious, but like, I don't know.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah, that's true.
• 1:10:59
  If you're, if you're always thinking about it, you.
• 1:11:01
  You're bringing up a child in fear.
• 1:11:04
  Lots of fear around them.
• 1:11:06
  So.
• 1:11:06
  Yeah, but it is nice to read her book and, you know, be able to look at what she tells you about the data.
• 1:11:14
  Because I trust her because she's, she's an economist and she's trained to look at data and she just tells you also good study, bad.
• 1:11:22
  So unbiased.
• 1:11:23
  Like it was like she wasn't telling you what to do, which was nice.
• 1:11:27
  Or that there is like a right way of things.
• 1:11:30
  It's just here's some information about the studies and you can.
• 1:11:35
  And at the end of the day, everything boils down to you just making your own choice.
• 1:11:39
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:41
  Based on information.
• 1:11:42
  Yes, yes.
• 1:11:44
  Not on like what people might think about you.
• 1:11:46
  Yeah.
• 1:11:47
  Oh my God, the Internet.
• 1:11:48
  I swear, if I see one more wild birth person, it's like someone perform a welfare check on this person.
• 1:11:58
  Oh my gosh.
• 1:11:59
  Yeah.
• 1:11:59
  Oh my God.
• 1:12:00
  It's just so crazy.
• 1:12:01
  It's so crazy, man.
• 1:12:03
  There are so many ways to be a parent, as we've seen, but I Love Emily Oster.
• 1:12:06
  I love all of her.
• 1:12:07
  I just think she's so smart.
• 1:12:09
  And again, the thing that I'm noticing, this is like probably our 25th parenting book that we've read.
• 1:12:18
  Authors, they often come to the table with a point of view and they primarily put forth studies that support their point of view.
• 1:12:28
  And you can almost tell what their point of view is by the title of the book.
• 1:12:32
  And you kind of just get different versions of the that throughout the whole thing.
• 1:12:36
  Yeah.
• 1:12:37
  And what's so nice about her is like, as you said, she's not biased.
• 1:12:39
  She says this is what the data says.
• 1:12:42
  This is what worked for my family.
• 1:12:44
  Maybe some version of this would work for yours.
• 1:12:46
  Or not.
• 1:12:47
  Do what you want.
• 1:12:48
  Do what you want.
• 1:12:48
  Do what you want.
• 1:12:49
  I like that.
• 1:12:50
  Yeah, I thought that was great.
• 1:12:51
  Yeah, we could all do with a little less judgment.
• 1:12:54
  So are we recommending the book?
• 1:12:56
  I would recommend anything she's written.
• 1:12:58
  I would recommend you.
• 1:12:59
  Okay, okay.
• 1:13:00
  We do.
• 1:13:00
  We recommend it.
• 1:13:01
  Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  It's a good one because.
• 1:13:03
  Because again, if you're in a situation, you can kind of look up in her book where she's talked about it.
• 1:13:09
  You don't have to read the whole book if you don't want to.
• 1:13:11
  You can just go to the part you're struggling with.
• 1:13:13
  Yeah.
• 1:13:14
  So that's nice.
• 1:13:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:17
  From scientist to parent, how would you rate this book?
• 1:13:20
  A seven.
• 1:13:21
  Okay.
• 1:13:21
  Because of the studies.
• 1:13:22
  Studies.
• 1:13:23
  Lots of studies.
• 1:13:26
  But, you know, very.
• 1:13:27
  It's tricky to read her books because they're so.
• 1:13:30
  So they are.
• 1:13:31
  There is a lot of data in them.
• 1:13:33
  So, you know, it's like you're reading about lots of studies, but it's like if I was just looking up something, I would find it very helpful.
• 1:13:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:44
  What did you think, Gers?
• 1:13:46
  I thought it was great.
• 1:13:47
  I mean, I would have loved.
• 1:13:50
  I'm like a more practical person.
• 1:13:52
  And so this was very helpful to me.
• 1:13:54
  Like, I don't get super woo woo.
• 1:13:56
  And I would have liked this information, I think when I was giving birth and in the first couple of years of life just like to have it.
• 1:14:06
  And I think she has other books, so I'm gonna continue on with her.
• 1:14:10
  Yes.
• 1:14:11
  Yeah.
• 1:14:12
  You should read the Family First.
• 1:14:13
  I'm gonna read the Family first because I feel like that's where we're at now.
• 1:14:15
  That's where you are now.
• 1:14:16
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:18
  That's her next book.
• 1:14:19
  Love her.
• 1:14:19
  Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for this episode of Other People's Parenting.
• 1:14:23
  And we will see you next week.
• 1:14:25
  Thank you, Jurs.
• 1:14:26
  Thank you for having me.
• 1:14:27
  Thank you for coming.
• 1:14:28
  It you so fun.
• 1:14:30
  Yeah.