Latest / The Growth Project / Episode 325: Sixty Days in the Dark (Part 1)

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Episode 325: Sixty Days in the Dark (Part 1) · The Growth Project

• 0:00
  You.
• 0:03
  Okay. Welcome to the Growth Project. This is a podcast brought to you by employees. We exist to optimize who you are and what you do to help you be better and pursue better.
• 0:14
  And the podcast is just a spirit of that to to give people a chance. Yes. To tell their story, to, to be relevant, to be interested, to be encouraging, to be inspiring your, your life and to help you be better for the things that you do and for the people that matter most. And so today, we are kicking off a three part series, and Doctor Drew Brannon,
• 0:36
  partner here is not only, a founder of employers, a partner of employers, but today he is a special guest of AMP plus.
• 0:44
  And I appreciate drew, you having the courage to tell your story.
• 0:48
  Why don't you go ahead and tell us the title of the series? Man, the the focal point for three episodes is a little bit uncomfortable, if I'm being honest. So I think the the title we're calling 60 days in the dark.
• 1:01
  Yeah. And that's not like a coal mining experience or not. Aaron Rodgers. It's, below ground. Yeah. It's. No that not. No, no that not your, spiritual retreat. None of that. And so 60 days in the dark in the series are kind of laid out and, and this is a chance. And one of the beautiful parts of our job, drew,
• 1:19
  is people trust enough to tell their story.
• 1:22
  And a lot of times, we could just share our own stories and our experiences to encourage others. And this is part of that process. But you've been literally through hell for the last couple of months. And and what we hope to do with this three part series is kind of lay the backstory, which is today's episode. How do we get to this point?
• 1:42
  What is 60 days in the dark? What does that really mean? Two will be, you know, lessons of grit and perseverance and resilience. You know, we talked about God closes one door, he opens another. But it's hell in the hallway. And and how do you survive that. And then three will be what are some lessons and learned.
• 2:00
  And as you said I can't remember somewhere in this journey is it's given me a new perspective. Yeah. And quite a bit of why and I think shame on us as a company if we don't kind of pay attention to some of that perspective. And, and shame on you. Like if you don't live a little bit with a different perspective.
• 2:18
  Right.
• 2:19
  And so I think that's, that's what we hope to share. And, and I just, I love you and it was hard to watch. And, and I appreciate your willingness to tell the story today about what you experienced and what you went through. And so,
• 2:33
  without further ado, 60 days in the dark. Yeah. So it's funny, as we're kind of setting this up because I'm realizing, although there are a ton of people who I will call part of kind of the amp loss community, you know exactly what we're talking about.
• 2:48
  Yes. We've got some listeners who have no idea what we're talking about, and they're probably sitting there thinking like, where is this headed? Like, what in the world happened to my man over there? Well, we'll fill in the gaps for you and you'll be very clear by the end of this episode. But the reason we're calling this thing six days in the dark and how that's relevant to what's going on over these last, really better part of 11 weeks now has been, some really difficult medical trials.
• 3:17
  I have lived through with my with my vision, with my eyesight, of all things. And, you know, I'll, you know, start with the end in mind. So the where we're what we're going to explain is the, the process of me living without, really any vision to speak of for, over two months due to some medical things that happened.
• 3:40
  And so that's when we say 60 days in the dark.
• 3:43
  what we mean by that is live in about a 60 day period of time with the inability to, to really see much at all. Yeah. So you think of our five primary senses, right? You know, sight, smell, hearing, touch, taste.
• 3:57
  Losing one of those.
• 3:59
  Yeah. I can tell you which one not to lose. Yeah, yeah. And so just, just talk about is, is something most people take for granted. Totally. But talk about what that initial thought of not being able to see. Yeah. It's one of those things. I think you're exactly right. I doubt anybody wakes up on any kind of consistent basis.
• 4:19
  And from the time their feet hit the floor, they think, man, it is so great to be able to see today. Yeah. You know, like what an incredible blessing to have my vision. No none of us are thinking about that. And I certainly wasn't prior to going through a lot of these hard times. And so for sure, we take this for granted in fairly like we take a lot of things for granted, you know, unless you've had a notable reason of some kind to take stock in or maybe reflect on, the fact that you have vision.
• 4:45
  Yeah. Easy, easy to do, easy to do. But,
• 4:48
  you know, so if you begin to think about that of like, okay, what if you are living without one of your five senses? And what if that one was your ability to see? I don't know that we, really can grasp the magnitude of that. And, you know, although I to be clear, I was not blind during this time.
• 5:07
  I had to go look some of these things up because you go through a process like this and you find yourself wondering of, like, how many people in the world are blind in about 44 million people are. Wow. And obviously, the biggest difference between them, in my case is there was something on the other side of the saga, whereas with them there isn't the we didn't know.
• 5:28
  Well, yeah, there was a time where we didn't know that for sure. Yeah. And we'll get into that. There was a time we didn't know that for sure.
• 5:33
  And so I want to be real clear to it. Like this is not a like a comparable discussion. I'm not comparing myself to those. That's unfortunate.
• 5:40
  Not at all. I think that's more just that was from my education. And I think also we're sharing is like there's a massive population of people in the world who who can't see and won't see. Yeah. And I think what it just gives us is people that have those five senses or have, if you want to talk about certain, quote unquote abilities that people are faced with a disability, how easy to take for granted the common things that we are able to see, we are able to touch, we are able to taste, we are able to smell.
• 6:07
  Yeah. But what impact does that have on your ability to experience your world, to experience others, to watch your children play a sport? How much our vision plays a role in shaping our experience? Yep. I mean, you think about it for like any person who's listening to this podcast, if you just if you were to take a step back on life and be like, okay, like, tell me about some of your best memories.
• 6:28
  You know what some of the about some awesome things that you've experienced and you've seen and you'll never forget in all of them have been chronicled in your your short and long term memory through your eyes. That's how you've created every one of those. And without the ability to see them. Yeah, maybe you would have still been there, but of course it would have been a drastically different thing.
• 6:53
  And so, you know, you ask a person, hey, what do you value most in life? And everybody's different on that. But, you know, a lot of people will tell you like, hey, like, go make memories, go make memories. These are things no one can ever take from you. And you know your house can burn down and your job can be taken out from underneath you.
• 7:08
  But like memories, you know? Yeah, no one can take those. Well, true. But man, the fact that we gotta be able to see to really do those is powerful. Yes. And so I think if you weren't able to see then that ability to visualize what it might experience. And so people who were born blind, I don't have any context.
• 7:27
  That's right. To really shape that experience, if you lose your eyesight, you've got a you've got a recollection of maybe what it's about, and how to experience that. And so and I appreciate you saying, hey, this is not a comparison to people who are blind and will never be able to regain their sight.
• 7:43
  One of the things we do as people is we try to relate to somebody else's story. Yeah. And and we do it in a way to try to connect. But what it often does is minimizes somebody else's experience. And we'll save that for another day because I imagine that happened to you as well. Yeah. Yeah. We unnecessarily put pressure on ourselves to have some type of like relatable example to share with someone.
• 8:05
  And we really all need to do that.
• 8:07
  even prior to this, let's just set the stage like your eyesight wasn't always a string for years anyway, right? Unfortunately, it's funny, the other I was talking with a good buddy of the day who, although he's in his mid 40s, he's has 2020 vision still, which is like a mind boggling.
• 8:22
  Yeah, you can't in the 50s, but you have to wear readers. Yeah, but I still got 2022 and I like the short term. So so he told me that he think he estimated that he's been to the eye doctor four times in his life. And I said, I think I've been four times in the last month actually. See, you had the week.
• 8:38
  Yeah, practically. So I have a long history with, with eye problems. Unfortunately, that dates all the way back to 1993. And I know we have some listeners on here who were playing sports in the 90s, just like I was, but unfortunately, at the age of 13. So, yeah, I was born in 1980 and I'm in my mid 40s now, but at the age of 13 had a really bad baseball accident where the, the summary of it is, the guy threw me a curve ball.
• 9:04
  I was trying to get out of the way. And in the process of doing that, somehow, someway, the ball broke really hard, hit my bat and then deflected immediately and squarely into my, my right. I created a major, major medical issue. Of course, you know, rush me, the hospital, all that stuff. And ultimately, my retina detached in that eye.
• 9:26
  And there's different ways that can go down severity wise. And like the location of, the retina detachment. You know, we probably don't have a lot of eye anatomy experts on here. But let me just say this. If you ever have any problems with anything in your eye, you do not want it to be with the retina. Because there there are long term vision, implications of that.
• 9:48
  And that's what happened to me. So because of where the retina detached and the severity of it, I, lost a what's called the macula. If you lose your retina, at the macula, you have central vision loss. And so that's that's what I suffered. Unfortunately. And so I lost a lot of vision out of my right eye.
• 10:06
  And to this day, although I can use it to see some things and, like, I can certainly see colors and smears of colors and things like that.
• 10:16
  if that's all I had, and I found this out very, you know, vividly, you know, in the last several months, but, that I alone does not allow me to function very well, let's put it that way.
• 10:27
  So go back to even just losing that vision at age 13. What do you even remember about that experience? What do you remember going through your mind? What did that feel like? I remember I was probably like just old enough, just insightful enough to think that this might really be a thing one day. Because when you at that time, because I still had my other, fully functional day in and day out, it really didn't affect me a ton like I could.
• 10:56
  That certainly had some depth. Perception was harder. That was my last at bat. Never played the game of baseball. I had I had to take a year off and I tried to come back and, man, it was just really, really hard to to hit a baseball. Now, how were you able to play basketball so well with losing that concession?
• 11:10
  That's a miracle. It's crazy. I didn't fully realize just how, like, you know, I always felt some level of disappointment because my goal was to play power five D1 basketball and I wasn't I wasn't good enough to do that. And it always felt like, although I ended up doing what I was supposed to do,
• 11:25
  there was some degree of like me in, like I didn't quite hit the target.
• 11:29
  But now with a new perspective, I'm like, I can't believe I did any of that. You know, like, it's shocking that I could even play college basketball. You had a good reason.
• 11:36
  it is a pretty much a miracle.
• 11:38
  Yeah. So I think to answer your question, I was probably just aware enough to realize that, like, man, losing this much functioning and I, at the age of 13, don't exactly set me up.
• 11:46
  Well for things that could, could come down the pike, but at 13 are overwhelmed with fear or uncertainty. No, maybe I wasn't aware enough to to feel those and that I ignorance is bliss. Yeah. As a youth is like, hey, I'm still going to be okay. He's still going to play at Duke and and all that, all that's going to work out.
• 12:02
  You know, to note, I don't think that's the reason I didn't play at Duke, to be clear. I mean, I think we have a reason. I don't I'm kind of glad we finally put our finger on the ball. I don't know that it was my right. I, held me back from playing in Cameron. And so unfortunately, this thing that you thought maybe could be a thing one day, you know, that that came to life.
• 12:23
  Yeah, very much so,
• 12:24
  So I couldn't believe when we talked this morning that you said ten years ago was when you had had another experience with that. Yes. So from, I guess, 93 through 2015,
• 12:34
  I was pretty responsible. Was still going in for my, like, visits to the doctor, you know, once, twice a year and all that stuff they were, they told me to do.
• 12:41
  I was good, didn't, didn't have any issues. And then all of a sudden in 2015, which is yeah, now ten years ago on a random Saturday morning, I was out doing what I normally do on a Saturday morning with some buddies running and noticed some funky stuff happening in my right eye that didn't seem normal. And, you know, less than 12 hours later I was having surgery for a detached retina yet again.
• 13:02
  But it was in that same eye. So the fact that I didn't have a whole lot of quality vision or that I. It honestly didn't, you know, I'd rather have not gone through that, but it didn't do a whole lot of, of damage to me in terms of worry and fear. Yeah. And what I remember most about that is the recovery.
• 13:21
  You have coverage. Brutal. Yeah. So, so so talk about that a little bit. Just even for that I you still had vision. The other eye. Right. And this is the part as I've told people and familiarize them with this, the specific procedure that they do in that case or did in that case. It's called a vitrectomy.
• 13:35
  Not to be confused with another procedure or that others might have had the beginnings of the V.
• 13:42
  They're very different, but, it's it's kind of crazy. I mean, I tell you about how the procedure works. They're like, wait a second. What you had to do. What? So they they go in and they use a laser to essentially. Well, first they suck the fluid. There's fluid that's now in your eye that you don't want to be in your eye.
• 13:59
  That's there as a result of the retina detaching. They get that out of there. Then they use a laser to essentially kind of like tamp back down or seal the retina back to the eye in the way it's intended to be. And then they inject a gas bubble into your eye,
• 14:12
  that acts as essentially like a splint would or, in a similar way to how if they were to cast a broken ankle and then we know.
• 14:20
  All right, that ankle's not going anywhere. Like it's going to sit just like we want it to while it heals. That's what the gas bubble does. As long as you do what's called positioning and here's where the crazy part comes in that you're talking about. You have to following surgery for somewhere between. It depends on the the the eye and the surgeon, that type of thing.
• 14:38
  But it's normally somewhere between 4 to 7 days. I think in my case it was six days back in 2015. You have to lie on your stomach 45 minutes out of every 60 minutes, you know, around the clock, you know, now you can see there is a position they allow you to sleep in where you can sleep through the night.
• 14:54
  But if you're not sleeping, you are, in my case, laying on a massage table face down for six days. Yeah. Not a great time. Yeah, not a great. A lot of time alone in your thoughts. Yeah, yeah. And so I did that and you know, was able to get through that recovery. But at that time you could still the first time you could see.
• 15:14
  Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm going to try to say it flakes or at that or phone or whatnot. So it wasn't great. But exactly. Yeah I could I had my other eye. And so the things I need to do, I could do. Yeah, yeah. And so I remember that was seven days. You battle back back at were no problems.
• 15:30
  Yeah. No no complications. Everything was really smooth and it probably, you know, 3 to 4 weeks, something like that. I was the gas had absorbed out of my eye and I was back at life, just like you said. Yeah,
• 15:44
  just for people that don't know you, but hopefully you get a picture, like, you don't complain a whole lot.
• 15:49
  You don't. You don't pay attention a whole lot to, challenge it. You just kind of plug your head and move forward. And so you never complain much about your eye or your health or anything like that. You just kind of plugging along. And so,
• 16:01
  which fast forwarded us, you know, ten years later, ten years later, was it January 20th is that they say everything happens in two decades, right?
• 16:09
  So yeah. Yeah, ten years later. And so this would have been three months ago, January of 2025. A latter part of that month as on the 20th. Yeah. And I was, at watching a Nate basketball game on a Saturday on an otherwise normal Saturday. Your son. Yeah. My son Nate. And, I again started seeing some things in my vision that didn't seem like they should be there.
• 16:36
  And this is in your good. Yeah. Yeah. So the difference was this time, like, this is my good. Well, we've always called it my good. I, I'm not sure what to call it anymore. And, I did what a lot of us do, especially as men, is we kind of talked ourselves out of worrying about it.
• 16:51
  You know, it'll probably nothing. Got up the next day. Same stuff yet again. Talk myself out of it. Then came Monday. And here at the office, the things that I had noticed on Saturday were getting worse, not better. And that's when I reached out to a friend of mine who is also my my doctor and, you know, went over there, got evaluated, was told that I had what's called a retinal tear, which is not great news, but better than a detachment.
• 17:21
  They were like, hey, you got a rental tear. There's a little laser procedure we'll need to do.
• 17:25
  Not a major deal. Not a major deal. Show up tomorrow morning at the surgery center. They'll take care of you, and off you go. And so I'm like, oh, okay. Breathing a little bit of a sigh. Relief. I show up there the next morning to get this laser procedure.
• 17:37
  They decide to run an additional test or two. They come back in the room and they tell me, actually, you have a detached retina. And this was the one thing that I feared because I knew how important it was that I maintain this eye. It's the only one I have that I can see out of very well. And that had not happened.
• 17:59
  Unfortunately, now a lot of people have asked me the question of like, what happened? You know, like what? Why did it? The hard part about these situations is you don't know the answer to that. If you have a specific trauma of some type to your eye, that is a common reason. Those are easy to explain. Yeah. So you just playing the one the right.
• 18:16
  Yeah. Very I mean hey you get hit really hard with a baseball. Like probably something not so great is going to happen this time. There was none of that. There was no trauma. And so it's simply a byproduct of, the risk factors of I'm very nearsighted. I had an attachment in the other eye. I don't exactly have the best genetics when it comes to eye health.
• 18:35
  So you put all those pieces together and that's that's more than likely what happened. And so as soon as you heard detached retina that morning. Yeah. Surgery that later that day. And so and so that's the I was scared to death. Scared to death. And you know, it's unlike a lot of other major medical concerns this is considered a medical emergency,
• 18:53
  for a number of reasons, the most important is depending on the site of the detachment, you may or may not be vulnerable to long term vision loss.
• 19:02
  So in my case, it it had not detached at a site that typically involves long term vision loss. Great news. However you got to move quickly. Yeah. And you don't have the luxury. Whereas with other some major medical things like, well, you know, we're going to go see doctor So-and-so over here and then we're going to get like, we're going to fit.
• 19:20
  You can't do that. Like you got to move.
• 19:22
  I went into surgery later that day, had another procedure just like the one I described earlier. Got the gas bubble
• 19:29
  started that process of, laying flat on my stomach now. But here's what was different this time. And, like, I was so caught up in my fear
• 19:39
  confusion and just all those flood of emotions I didn't yet think a lot about the implications of this.
• 19:46
  So I get home from the surgery and, you know, immediately I'm like, wait a second, I can't see anything. Yeah, because I got a patch taped on my left eye and I'm relying solely on my right eye, which we've already talked about all the limitations I have there. And I'm like, I can't, I'm useless. And it and it did.
• 20:07
  Not until I got home and began to kind of just get with it. I didn't realize that. Well, think about the power of the word. You just said I'm useless. Yeah. I felt that way. Yeah, totally. But how, how quickly we can go there. And so that's why dealing with something like this is so difficult. It takes away something that you're able to do.
• 20:30
  And that interpretation we talked about your feelings will betray you. I felt useless because I wasn't able to do what I could normally do. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing that immediately hit me was like, wow, if I knew just because when you when you look out of both your eyes, we don't think about this very often.
• 20:46
  You don't have any way of knowing, like, you know, which one is doing the what's doing what. We don't know that. And I didn't know just how much I was relying on this. This left I didn't realize that until it was gone. And man, that's true. You could do all you could think about that in a lot of respects in life.
• 21:03
  Right. And then it was and are very quickly realized and it was terrifying, was like, I know the path forward. And, if I had realized in the past just how much I was relying on this left, I, I would have done some things to be a little more conservative. But yeah, I don't know what those were necessarily, but I probably would have done a few things differently.
• 21:28
  Yeah. So you look back now, I was like, Good God, I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. I mean, now you've become an expert all the time about lessons learned, right? You're becoming an expert. Yes. And so, so that hit you. You can't do anything I can't see. But in your mind, I know how your brain works, I think.
• 21:45
  I mean, you got it laid out. Here's here's a plan for each day. And I can do this for seven days and and I'll be back. Yeah. I was I wanted to do that and I did to some degree. But it was really tough honestly, because even just the uniqueness of the recovery. Right. So going back to we said earlier, like you got to keep your head straight down and even if you're not, so if you're not lying on your stomach, you can sit up in a chair or something like that and just keep your eyes facing toward the ground.
• 22:12
  And, you know, I did that for eight days, and you think about that in 45 minutes. On the hour. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. And, you know, you think about it, if if you're walking down the street or you see someone sitting wherever and like their, you know, their heads down and they're looking straight into the ground, what assumption do we make, you know.
• 22:30
  Right. Like what's wrong with that guy? And you say things like, pick your head up like it's to. And so I did that for, for eight days in the toll that takes on you. I can't emphasize enough how hard that is of just man. Like, you're literally you literally have your head down for eight days and it takes a toll on you.
• 22:51
  Yeah. And so I'm going to push you here a second okay. What was that toll. What what what was going through your mind? What were you feeling?
• 23:01
  a lot of, certainly frustration, confusion, concern. You feel like a measure of guilt, of, like, man, people rely on me and they need me, and, unable to to do the things that they need me for.
• 23:22
  It's hard to be in your home with your family, and you can't engage with your family very well. You feel like you're, missing a lot. You think you're letting people down? Just all. I mean, just a flood of emotions. None of them go wrong. Totally of negative thoughts and your own anxiety and stress that goes with that.
• 23:41
  Yeah. And then just the repetitive I mean, you got to go up and do it again the next day. Yeah, I do the next day.
• 23:46
  yeah, I mean, I did my best to persevere through that process. We, I get about 15 days in
• 23:54
  I go back in for there's a lot of post-operative visits you got to do because they're, you're checking to make sure things are right.
• 24:03
  In my case, they were not right. Well, I think the language I remember is, hey, this you can't tell this is within normal limits. Yeah, I this is within normal limits that that it was longer than your previous. But this is within normal limits. And hey you're struggling with this so much because you just can't see out of your other eye.
• 24:19
  And this is still within normal limits. And and you kind of felt in your gut it wasn't, it wasn't right. Yeah I didn't, I hadn't, I had a not so great feeling and I can't exactly put my finger on why or tell you why. But it just some things didn't seem right along the way. I'll just put it that way.
• 24:34
  Yeah. And so you're trying to and supposedly still within normal limits. I'm two weeks in is day 15 to be exact. And I go in to, to kind of check up on how my progress is. And the retina has detached again and same place.
• 24:51
  I don't know the answer to that. Probably. I don't know that they ever told me that.
• 24:57
  I know it wasn't again in the place I didn't want it to be, so that was good news. But I don't know if it was the same exact place. And, gosh, of all the, you know, I think all of us, we're right. We're like, compiling these moments as we go throughout life. And some of them are great and ones that we remember for really, really good reasons.
• 25:23
  And then we compile moments that are not great at all. And we hope to not compile quite as many of those. But we don't always we don't control that. Right. Well, this was one of those. And when I found out what had happened and begin began to put the pieces together of what that meant for me going forward, without question, one of the hardest, maybe the hardest thing,
• 25:46
  that I've dealt with
• 25:47
  so what that really meant was I was now going to need two procedures done.
• 25:54
  They were going to have to take a much more conservative path. Know I mentioned earlier this this gas bubble thing, which I know kind of people are like, what in the world? That is crazy. The first procedure, they'd use a gas that absorbs back into your eye in about a two ish week time frame. I knew this next one because they told me it was going to be, 7 to 8 weeks.
• 26:15
  I mean, honestly, would you that day. Yeah, yeah, they did. And I'm now I'll be nine weeks this Thursday and I still have some of this gas still in my eye. Even as we're having this conversation, I see this little bubble right here, just sitting there. Well, because it's not totally out yet. It should be soon, but it's not totally out yet.
• 26:33
  yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm going to now be without this eye for eight ish weeks. And, you know, of course I'm asking a question like, well, hold on, can we can we get this right? Like, is this can we rectify this, fix this? And at that moment, nobody would tell me. Yes. And it wasn't because the answer was no.
• 27:01
  It was because at that point they really couldn't. Yeah. They didn't know. Yeah.
• 27:07
  I think doctors did like in this role. Like they gotta balance the art with the science. They got to be able to give hope but not tell the truth. And they can't let you get your hopes up for something that may not exist. And so they gotta find a way to tell the brutal truth.
• 27:23
  Yep. Yeah. And to be clear on this too, because I want to the the doctors that got involved, for my second procedure the second time around, I couldn't ask for any more unbelievable hair, unbelievable humans, unbelievably skilled at what they do. So their the fact that they were not giving me some assurance on that had nothing to do with them.
• 27:44
  Yeah, yeah. I don't mean to imply that. No, no, you weren't at all. But I just wanted to be sure I wasn't framing that in a way where there's any degree of criticism toward them. It wasn't about that at all.
• 27:52
  I have a good friend from college, that is a retina surgeon, in Florida in the state of Florida, who was his only been involved in this as just a great friend.
• 28:01
  And I was on the I got on the phone with him that day as well and asked him the same question. And he loves me, of course. I mean, on a personal level. And he wouldn't tell me. He couldn't tell me that either. Oh, well. And he of course he would if he could. And so that helped me feel a little bit better too, is I look, these guys just can't do that right now.
• 28:19
  So I had to live with that. And so you get that news. You know what's coming. There's no guarantee, a long term vision. I remember nobody can get in touch with you. Yep. That's exactly right. Which is what I do. Which is not good. Don't do this every time. Yeah. There I, we weren't get any. And so when I said what would happen when I get really down about something and fortunately this does not happen frequently or consistently, I go off the grid totally.
• 28:47
  And it was it was actually I guess in that case it was it was easier to do that because I couldn't really see my phone or anything, and I just I went off the grid, you know, don't recommend doing that. But that's human nature. But I have a tendency to do it right. We avoid those things for which we don't have answers.
• 29:05
  And you, you add the the fear, the anxiety, the guilt, the shame, the confusion, the overwhelming despair. Yeah, there's no good solution for it. It's it's I don't know what to do. And so you just retreat. Yeah. Yes. And I did and you know I didn't have the mental or emotional energy to even like explain.
• 29:26
  Yeah. At that moment I just couldn't do it.
• 29:30
  I don't remember exactly like I know that that was a Wednesday. I spent the better part of that day figuring out what was going to happen. And then went home and just kind of wallowed in it all, like you, you're you're exactly right. Was non-responsive. And then I was having surgery the next day.
• 29:49
  So that's spent. It was it was Wednesday afternoon when all this was coming together. And then I was not able to have surgery and and well, okay, I need to mention this too. So they told me Wednesday the good news of,
• 30:01
  Hey, this is this detachment has not reached your macula. Great. Right. Well, then they said we can't operate on you until 1:00 the next day.
• 30:12
  I didn't sleep that whole night. Because I was in, like, they they assured me that it was okay, that, like, hey, this is not you're not going to wake up tomorrow in this. Like, they have ways of knowing that. But I that you didn't even know I wasn't enough for me. Yeah, because in your gut, you knew something was wrong anyway.
• 30:32
  Yeah, it wasn't enough for me either. I look where the detachment is, location of it, and like, it's it's not. We would not let you go until 1:00, because one of these things where they couldn't get is explained to me. They couldn't get kind of like standard O.R. time to do this until 1:00. The next day. They could get emergency time that night, but they prefer not to do that unless, you, like, really know they have to.
• 30:56
  And they're like, it's okay. Like, we can wait till 1:00 tomorrow. But I didn't sleep all night. I was so scared. Well, I will say you're as relaxed I've ever seen you with the drugs I gave you. I've. No, I've never seen you. Yeah, I joked about that after the fact. I was like, I remember lying on the.
• 31:13
  I remember lying on the table in the O.R., and they put that mask on your face. They're like, okay, count, count backwards from three. And I'm like, three, two. And the next thing I know, you're shoving a straw up my nose in the recovery room. You hear me? I'm like, wait, wait, what? I get like, wait, wait, are we okay?
• 31:32
  And what they say, let it go. It was probably like four hours later. That, felt like one second later. Yeah. So that didn't surprise me, but that was the only respite you had. Yeah. For two months. Yeah. So. And it was, it was not pretty. Like I had a real, problematic response to the anesthesia. I got home, I, I could not move without vomiting.
• 31:53
  If I moved, I vomited. And my neighbors will probably listen to this podcast. They're the ones that, you know, kind of, like, took me out of Rachel's car and, like, helped me in, like, basically, like, laid me down on a bed. And I laid there for about about 7 or 8 hours because I couldn't move. If I moved, I would throw up.
• 32:11
  Oh my gosh. So it was, that's how this whole thing started on the second go around. And so then then you're thinking, what you wake up the next day. Yeah. So I can't like I couldn't move. And then I think, I finally got to the point where I could, I wasn't as nauseous at about 9 or 10 p.m. that night.
• 32:33
  And then you're not, you know, you're not really tired at that point. So I think I remember I'm not a big pain pill person. That's not really my style. But I remember taking some type of pain pill and falling asleep and then wake up the next morning
• 32:47
  trying to have the attitude of, okay, like, we got to figure out a way here, but I wasn't really there emotionally quite.
• 33:00
  And so it's easy with what we do, especially for me as a cognitive psychologist. Like as you think. So you are. Yeah. And so some of those thoughts you were telling yourself to try to be optimistic, to try to be confident. What what were you trying to talk yourself into that you couldn't really believe?
• 33:16
  I think probably the best way to put it would be I was experiencing this, this like, inner conflict of on the one hand, there were some fundamental things that I believe was beyond a shadow of a doubt that, were true.
• 33:33
  You know, I believed that God loves me, that he doesn't make mistakes, that he operates with complete sovereignty. I believe those things fundamentally, however emotionally, I wasn't finding a whole lot of comfort in those things, that I could say those things to myself on repeat, virtually. And yet I felt so down, sad, confused, frustrated. And so there was just a real disconnect there of the things that I believed versus the way I felt.
• 34:08
  And I was kind of living in that space of trying to figure out how to make sense of it. And that's so well said. You know, we go back to Stockdale a lot and we've talked about Stockdale. But what I hear you talking about is that courage to face the brutal truth and having to deal with that brutal truth while still trying to maintain an unwavering belief in something bigger than yourself.
• 34:30
  Yeah, but giving yourself permission to be human and feel that pain and feel that desperation and feel that sense of hopelessness. Right. That's where it seems like to me. You were battling on a daily, on an hourly basis, minute by minute basis. Yeah. And like it was this interesting disconnect too in that like I didn't wonder if God was going to sustain me or not.
• 34:55
  Like it was never that. It's like there was never a question of whether or not,
• 35:00
  he would or would not show up in like major ways in my life. Like I knew that was going to happen. But man, like to be in that moment and like, look down the tunnel a little bit and like, you know how long it is, how dark it is, how difficult it is.
• 35:25
  Even though you you're living with the assurance and the peace of mind that, like you're not going at it alone through it was hard. It was really, really hard.
• 35:37
  Although, I told myself a lot that, like, I'm probably a better candidate for this than plenty of others, if I was being honest. I wish it wasn't me.
• 35:52
  Yeah. Well I think we also can tell ourselves that into. Well I'm, I'm built for this you know like I'm a psychologist, I help people deal with difficult things on a daily basis and right. What that becomes is a little bit of added pressure. That's true. I never thought about that. I should be better at this. I should be able to handle this, you know, and I think being fully human means you realize, hey, I don't want to feel this pain, and I don't want to have to go through this.
• 36:20
  I wouldn't wish this on anybody, but I really wish it wasn't me. It wasn't me. And that you have to suffer it. Yeah, that's a really good point. I have not thought about that till right now because people would send me messages of like attempted encouragement of like things like this. I don't know, somebody better suited for this than, you know.
• 36:38
  And then I'd be I'm thinking, well, then why am I so unhappy? Yeah. You know, why am I so scared? I must be doing something wrong. Yeah, maybe they're not right about me. And it's like. And you're. You find yourself thinking like, well, if that's the case, then I should feel better than I do right now. Or like you, maybe you give yourself permission to really be down in the dumps and living in this bad spot emotionally for some fixed period of time.
• 37:11
  And then if you don't turn the corner, then you're kind of back, you know, into self-critique mode. And yeah, a lot of stuff. And that's a whole nother conversation. We'll have it. You know, in another episode. But it's it's so unfortunate how, so many well-intentioned things can send people down spiraling. Yeah. I mean, I think if there's one thing I've learned in dealing with people with trauma, like what is well intentioned to things that people.
• 37:39
  And we'll get into this people aid hearing is, hey, I'm sorry, let me know what I can do. Yeah. And and we all we share our story and try to connect. And so and and let me say this too, because I can remember I think this is because people around me listen to this, that although you don't have I hope you don't have the same experience.
• 37:58
  There will be forms or versions of trauma like this and struggle like this that people experience. Yes. And I can remember, one of the aspects this is this is really, really tough. It's a really unique thing. Like, I didn't know anybody who had been through something like this, and most people probably don't. But, there was there were a couple there were two specific cases where, someone contact had me and said,
• 38:22
  hey, like, I know someone who has dealt with a very similar version of this.
• 38:27
  And I was like desperate to talk to them, and it just reminded me of how powerful when we can connect with someone who, like, really understands and can empathize, not just sympathize, but empathize. And that you know, you talk a lot about that if like the power of a shared experience and stuff. Yeah, I was universality of experience.
• 38:45
  I mean, I literally like in the case of one of these, someone sent me this person's contact information in like the moment I got it. I asked Rachel to, like, text that person right now and say, can you talk today? Because I was so desperate to, like, have someone tell me something that would help me feel better.
• 39:04
  Well, when we talk about stress makes you selfish. And stress creates separation. When you're going through something that only you think you've experienced, it isolates you from others. It gets you lost in your own thoughts and your own fears. And that universality of experiences or somebody else has been through this can give us hope. Yep. No doubt.
• 39:25
  So that was just a really powerful thing. Early is, you know, it's I think it's probably worth noting, too, that,
• 39:33
  it's normal when we're in these really low spots of struggle or whatever they might be, to begin to feel so desperate, to just feel better or feel normal, that that can lead us to some really destructive places.
• 39:50
  And, I'm grateful that didn't happen to me. Like I was looking for, just someone who could relate to me, like you're saying. But hopefully that's a worthwhile message for some of our listeners to even hear of just the recognition that when you're in those low places, you try to really go slowly before you make decisions, because you can quickly and easily end up in some things that only make it worse.
• 40:18
  Yeah. I mean, there's so many life lessons along the way here. And I think making those decisions from a position of strength you're going to be and you're just running from the pain. And you're trying to do whatever you can to escape that pain. And I think that's when you said you know how long it's going to be.
• 40:35
  I'm not quite sure you knew how long or even to grasp that. No, I thought I did but I did not. Yeah I was grossly underestimating it honestly I was I was very optimistic. I mean, here you saw how many false starts that I had, like trying to come back into the office and do all these things as ridiculous.
• 40:50
  So hard for me as somebody who loved you and who is probably, they say, optimistic. They try to temper your optimism. Yes. Like I don't want it like you would get your hopes up every time, every every doctor appointment. And I and I'd hang up the phone and just say your prayer is like, okay, God. Like he's got his hopes up.
• 41:08
  Like, if he didn't hear what he years, how is he going to respond. And that being able you can't live without hope. Right. But but that process of what that feels like and so okay now we know the backstory. You know now we, we get a glimpse a little bit of. And I appreciate you sharing your heart I know that's not not buttons.
• 41:31
  That's not your that's not your, your tendency. But but feeling that pain, that emotion, that fear and being able to share that man appreciate you sharing that with us and let us know how we got to this point. And I go back to where I started that. That what my supervisor, hey, God closes one door. And that's what's kind of happened right now for hey, we set the stage.
• 41:52
  That door has been closed for the time being on your site. And that was nine weeks ago. And that hill in the hallway is what we'll describe next. How how is your walk through it. We're just stop. What helped. What worked. What didn't work. How to navigate through with that grit and perseverance to keep walking forward in faith, not knowing when that other door is going to open up.
• 42:15
  And then now nine weeks, ten weeks out, that third segment will be okay. How can we look back with new perspective? Awesome. The lessons you've learned and that we want to take hold of. The interesting thing about our brain is sometimes we can forget or minimize the pain that we experienced, right? But we want to make sure we carry some of those lessons forward.
• 42:34
  In that process. Yep. So what other thoughts. What what else today that the that you wanted to say or make sure was understood before we kind of set the stage for the, for the hallway. I think that's nothing really additional I don't think I mean I appreciate you thank you for guiding me through that as skillfully as I know you would.
• 42:55
  it's interesting, like, even as we kind of talk through the events of that, there's still, like a real acute element to it for me of thinking about the chain of events and, I mean, heck, even as I like, okay, now that I'm back driving in stuff like that, going, like passing certain places and like, triggering certain memories of, like, it's there's just a real.
• 43:24
  Yeah, that's probably the best way to put it. It's still kind of an acute feeling with it. I'm glad to share that, because one of the things we know to be true,
• 43:32
  in dealing with trauma, is giving people permission to tell their story. And as they tell the story, those reminders can feel like you feel a sense of vulnerability again as you experience to those triggers.
• 43:45
  And so I'll caution you to be mindful of as you as a as these emotions are still raw, I just be mindful of how you're going to respond to that. But I think it's so important for our listeners to hear the power of being able to put the pain in your hands and tell the story from your lens, and there's power and healing in that story and telling that story.
• 44:05
  And so this is a healing journey for you, but also a sense of encouragement to our listeners. But I hope our listeners, when they think about the trauma in their life, that they take a step from you and have the courage to be able to tell their story and put the pin in their hands and give them some sense of ownership of what happened to them.
• 44:23
  Yeah. Now, I appreciate you saying that. No, I think that's a great way to frame up the background of this. And then, like you mentioned, we'll get into this next conversation that, I think that what will be interesting is this it's funny, as I've gone through this, people have struggled to find, like, the right way to ask this question because what they really want, they're like, what did you do all day?
• 44:43
  Like, how did how did you get through this? Like, what did you do? And so we'll talk a lot more about that next time, of what I might attempt to do, you know, get through the days and one easy. I think the question that I wanted to ask I was so scared of is here, you'll be able to see you again.
• 44:58
  Oh, yeah, I think that. And I never wanted to ask the question. Yeah. So I think I think the next one will be really because people don't know what to do. Oh, yeah. No they didn't. And you, of course, you know, you appreciate people's desire to be helpful. And so of course you do.
• 45:15
  And mostly that's what happened.
• 45:17
  And then there was, you know, maybe an example or two of good intentions that weren't as helpful. Yeah. Well, man, I appreciate you sharing the story. And I look forward to this, this next segment. Awesome. Looking forward to it as well. Thanks.