Latest / The Daily Writer / Valerie Cockerell on Writing Her First Book, Leadership Lessons from Disney, and Managing Like a Mother

Transcript

Valerie Cockerell on Writing Her First Book, Leadership Lessons from Disney, and Managing Like a Mother · The Daily Writer

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: One of the recurring themes on this podcast is leadership.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Now, writing and creativity are, of course, a huge part of what we do.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: We all know that, right?
0:26
SPEAKER_01: But if we want to operate a successful business, we've got to be able to manage all the moving pieces in order for things to run smoothly and for our business to grow over time.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm really excited today to have a guest who can help us do just that.
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Valerie Cockerell was born and raised in France, where she graduated with a degree in business hospitality.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: She eventually joined Disneyland Paris in 1991 as a retail manager, and after succeeding in a number of roles, she eventually oversaw the planning for all resort merchandise locations in that park.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Upon moving to Florida in 1997, Valerie worked as the assortment planning manager at Downtown Disney and Epcot Center, eventually moving to merchandise brand management for both Epcot and the Disney Cruise line.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Valerie left the company and started consulting for outside organizations in the retail world, but she returned to Disney in 2013 to become a contract facilitator for the Disney Institute, where she facilitated professional development classes and custom programs in both French and English.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: She drew from her international management experience in retail and operations to teach Disney's approach to leadership excellence and customer service.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: And since May 2019, Valerie has been a keynote speaker and workshop facilitator with her husband, Dan Cockerel.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: In her speaking, Valerie shares her expertise and methodology in leading teams and delivering outstanding customer service.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Valerie joins me today for a conversation about her new book, Manage Like a Mother, which offers a simple to understand and easy to implement take on leadership inspired by a mother's playbook.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: We talk about her career working for the Disney organization, how everybody can learn to become a better leader and manager by borrowing concepts from motherhood.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: And yes, men, that includes even us, how writers can implement these leadership principles, and much more.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: You can connect with Valerie at Cockerel Consulting.com.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: And of course, there will be a link in the show notes.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: I want to encourage you to grab Valerie's book, by the way, before we get into the conversation.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: It's really, really good.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: It's super well written.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: And even as a man, I found that gosh, there are a lot of things that I can learn from mothers about leadership and management.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: It's a great book.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: I encourage you to grab it.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: So here's my conversation with the amazing Valerie Cockrell.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Valerie, welcome to the podcast.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to have you on.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: And congrats on the launch of your new book.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is fantastic.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: So it's good to connect with you.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Kent, and thank you for having me on the podcast.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: I am very excited uh to share my book with the world.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a little bit um, it's exciting, but it's a little bit, I'm a little bit nervous at the same time.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's a big uh it's gonna be a big, big uh week for me this week.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: This is your first book, correct?
3:15
SPEAKER_01: It is.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is all kind of a brand new experience for you.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: It it was, and I never thought in a million years, if you had asked me, will you ever write a book?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: I would have said, absolutely not, much less in English, which as I'm sure your your audience will quickly pick up on my French accent.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So it was um a big uh learning uh learning curve for me, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect to enjoy it as much.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: I found it to be a great exercise.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: So now that your book is is just about to come out into the world, actually, by the time this episode comes out, your book will have been released.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Are you more feeling a sense of, oh gosh, I'm so glad to get this done?
3:59
SPEAKER_01: And you're you kind of feel the stress going off of it a little bit, or are you anxious to jump back into another writing project at some point?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh all of the above.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, part of me is still very much in not so much in the book, but I'm adding on to the book.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as you know, the writing process ends, and then there's, you know, six months, eight months, nine months until the book actually comes out.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: And this past year, more or less, I have been talking a lot about the book.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: And every time I talk about it, I think of more things that I wish I could add to the conversation.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I wish I could go back to the book now and add all of that.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, that's not the way it works.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And at some point you have to cut the umbilical cord and say, okay, this is it, this is what I'm gonna put out there.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: But but it continues to, you know, it's a living, uh, breathing document, uh, at least for me, uh, because I discover more and more things I wish I could add.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: So maybe there'll be a sequel.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And and I'm also thinking I have another idea for for a book, but um, but it's that idea that it never quite stops.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's the book, and then there's everything that you continue to develop beyond uh the release of the book.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to get into uh some themes from the book here in just a minute, but I would love for our listeners to get to know you a bit first.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: Now I know that you left France when you were age 16, which is, you know, a lot of people would look at that and go, oh my gosh, that sounds kind of crazy.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: But I'm wondering if you can share that story with us and why you decided to leave home in the middle of your teenage years.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, this is I knew I grew up thinking when I was a little girl, I wanted to be um a flight attendant.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, not because I love flying or anything like this, or that I knew much about the job, but I wanted to travel.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: I had always this burning desire to go and see the world.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: I could tell that there was so much out there, and I was ready to just sink my teeth into you know whatever was out there.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: But I also knew that I would not be able to do that effectively if I did not speak English.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: So I graduated from high school uh very young, and I decided to go learn English and move to London.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: So I was about 16 and a half, and I signed up to be an au-pair with a family in London, and I literally moved there with five words of English.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: I could say, My name is Valerie, I'm French.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And you know, obviously I lived there 18 months, I learned English, I studied there, and then I went back to France and finished my studies.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: And little did I know that that decision literally set the course of my entire life because not only it helped me with my career, I ended up working for Disney, being hired for Disney in Florida, and then back at Disney and Paris for the opening of the park.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: But that's how I met my husband of 30 years, and uh, we left Disney about five years ago.
6:53
SPEAKER_00: We now have a consulting company, but none of that would have happened if I hadn't, you know, have the confidence.
7:01
SPEAKER_00: Though I, you know, I was I was acting up like I was really confident about that decision.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Though I remember my parents putting me in the train for London, and as soon as the train left the station, I started crying, thinking, like, what am I doing?
7:14
SPEAKER_00: So, but as we all know, you learn the most when you're in a situation that is uncomfortable, and that's what it was for me.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: It was challenging, it was uncomfortable, but I learned a lot about not only English, but you know, being independent, uh, being an adult, uh, making decisions, and uh and that was it.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: That that set me up and set up my entire life, really.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: Then how long did you work for Disney and and what kind of different roles did you have with Disney?
7:42
SPEAKER_01: I know people love Disney.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: My wife is a huge Disney nut.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I really love Disney too.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: We were there last year on vacation.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: So I know when you talk about your career at Disney, people are very they're very intrigued by what you did there and what kind of roles you had there and so forth.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: So uh, well, initially I just had a one-year visa to work in the French pavilion at Epcot.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, the the all the pavilions at Epcot are are stuffed with people from the country of origin.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: So I did this and then went back to France.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: And Disney rehired me for the opening of Disney and Paris.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: And at that point, I joined in as a manager in retail.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: So I managed retail location at Disney and Paris, eventually moved up into assortment planning for the resort, uh, resort merchandise locations.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: And then after getting married with my husband, who's American, we relocated to Florida.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: I continued with retail at Disney for some years, took some time off to raise our three kids, and then went back and worked as a facilitator for Disney Institute.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: So that was really, again, something that was very uncomfortable and foreign to me because public speaking was not my thing.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I learned and uh I helped facilitate some of uh Disney's institute programs for professionals.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we had custom programs and open enrollment programs.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I did that in Florida and California, in Canada also, because I could I was the only facilitator that could do it in French.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: So I work quite a bit in Quebec.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And uh that was great, a terrific experience, great organization.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: You learn a lot at Disney.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it has it's a company, it has a tremendous culture.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: And you assume when you're in the middle of Disney that the whole world operates like this, but now that we're consultants, we realize no, that's not the case.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: And uh a lot of companies can learn and and apply or implement some of the best practice of Disney into their business.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Not doesn't matter how big of a company you are or what industry you're in.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: So it's been a great uh great uh playground for us and a great uh school for us.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh for and I say for us because both uh myself and my husband, we both worked for Disney.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Between the two of us, we we uh accumulated 41 years working for the Disney company.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: So incredible.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: We have quite a quite a bit of pixie dust to share.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: And uh so for listeners who are are wondering what Valer's talking about, so obviously your husband is Dan Cockrel and wrote a really wonderful book called How's the Culture in Your Kingdom?
10:18
SPEAKER_01: He was actually here on this podcast probably what a year and a half ago or something.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: And and of course, his dad Lee Cockerel was on the show as well.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And so it's interesting.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if if you guys have thought about packaging your books together in like a set, because you know what a what a cool book set that would be, because he's coming at it from his perspective.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: You're you have your brand new book from your perspective.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And do do you consider them kind of complementary in any way?
10:41
SPEAKER_01: Or obviously they're totally separate books, but is there some overlap in there at all?
10:46
SPEAKER_00: It could be, you know, it's funny you should ask because uh we've had one publisher that has asked us if we wanted to bundle the the books, and it would be interesting to see from first of all different generations, because my father-in-law Lee has a uh several books, but the most successful one is uh creating magic, and then Dan obviously talks about a lot of operational tactical things that he did as um he was the the vice president of the magic kingdom.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I'm talking about a whole different thing, which is approaching leadership through the lens of a mother's wisdom.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, they could unfortunately, I think Lee's book is with a different publisher.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: So that's the kind of things we we're dealing with.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: But I think there they you may be onto something here.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: We need to explore uh that uh possibility.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I say why not go for it?
11:35
SPEAKER_01: But I do know that sometimes untangling those publishing things can be a real rat's nest of all kinds of issues and and whatnot.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's dig into your book a little bit.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, so this is a podcast, as I mentioned, for writers, and one of the things that we talk about a lot around uh around the show and with writers that I talk to is the business side of things.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: We have the creative aspect, but there's also the side of it where you've got to lead and you've got to run a business, and especially if you want to get paid by clients or if you want to deal with publishers or self-publish your books, there's a real leadership and management and administrative component to this.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering if you can give us kind of a rundown of why you wrote Manage Like a Mother and what kinds of things that you want people to come away with from the book.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, first of all, one of the things that happened is um I have a um my mother who's 91 years old now, uh raised me and she would always say, I wish I was 20 and I knew what I know now.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: And I used to, I heard that so many times, I would every time I would just roll my eyes.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, now I'm in my 50s and I feel exactly the way she she feels.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like I wish I was 20 and I knew what I know now.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: So it occurred to me that you know I wanted to help younger professional, maybe younger women, aspiring leaders, and give them a tool because I remember being in my 20s when I was promoted a leader at Disney.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what I was doing.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I had no, you know, practical, I mean, I had no textbook, I had nothing, and I learned on the job.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, you know, I made a lot of mistakes in the process.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: So how can I help uh people avoid those mistakes?
13:18
SPEAKER_00: So that was the first idea behind uh writing the book.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Um and and but for us, for me, it it was kind of a uh a reverse thing.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh we have a business, a consulting business, we do keynote speeches, my husband and I, and we do workshops.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: And I every time I would talk about great leadership practices, I would find myself digging into my experience as a mother.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Why?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, being a mom, a lot of people can relate to this.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Even if you're not a mom, even if you're not a woman, we all have a thing in common, we all have a mom.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And when you are, by virtue of being a child, when you're on the receiving end of mothering, of parenting, you remember what felt great and what didn't feel so good, right?
14:06
SPEAKER_00: If if your mom was holding you accountable for something that she had not set the expectations for, you remember how it felt unfair, and you obviously wasn't it wasn't a great experience.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Now think about that learning and apply that to the leadership, to your leadership approach.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And what does that say about the importance of setting clear expectations?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Because once you do that effectively, then you can recognize people effectively, you can give feedback effectively, you are credible, right?
14:36
SPEAKER_00: So this is a great learning.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: And every time I would talk in the workshop or the keynotes about this, everybody would nod because we all have a mom.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: So we can all relate to that kind of, you know, to thinking about leadership through the lens of the wisdom of a mom.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that was the, you know, that was the thing that convinced me to write the book.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: And it became, it's very simple.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm not reinventing the will in the book, but I'm I'm taking every chapter, I'm sharing a story of something that happened with my kids, something that uh a situation I had to deal with with my three children.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: And and then what are the lessons I can extract from that?
15:15
SPEAKER_00: But I want to encourage the readers, and it's particularly men who may say, Oh, manage like a mother, that's a chick book, right?
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's not the case because you can reflect back on what it is to be a kid and when you felt encouraged, supported, and empowered by your mother.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm saying mother because the vast majority of our generation, we've been raised not exclusively, but primarily by our by our mothers.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: So you remember how it felt, and and then decide how you should approach, you know, dealing with teamwork, team members, people who work with you, and how you should build relationships and trust and communicate with them.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: All of that is such a you know easy and perfect analogy.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: That's really powerful.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: It's simple, it's very simple.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Now let's not I always say don't confuse simple with easy, right?
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Because being a leader is like being a mom.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: It's a long-term commitment.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: You have to be super consistent.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: And I have to admit it, even though I wrote a book about it, but there's no perfect playbook.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: There's no playbook that will give you, okay, if this happened, this is what you need to do.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's all kinds of situations that you find yourself into as a leader and as a mother, mother, that's you know, you never anticipate it, and there's no way out there you can find out about it ahead of time.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: You you have to be on your toes and you learn on the job most of the time.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So for people who are listening who maybe they're working on that first book or they're building a writing business, or they're they're they're juggling a lot of client work or whatever the case might be, a lot of times we writers are working alone.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes maybe we feel like we don't have the support that we need.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh now, I personally I I'm so grateful because I have the support of I've met a couple of mastermind groups and uh I run a community of people that I really care about and and they're great.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: But I know a lot of writers, part of what goes with with with being a writer is loneliness and sometimes just feeling overwhelmed, uh, particularly if you're an introvert.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: What are maybe a couple of things from your book or from your experience that a writer could do to be a better leader, to be a better manager, and to to be more successful in their writing business?
17:34
SPEAKER_01: I know that's a very open-ended question, but I'm curious if anything comes to mind.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, I tell you what, the challenge is.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, my book is about to come out.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So what some of the things I'm dealing with, I'm trying to do, I'm I'm kind of like I said, I'm kind of in an awkward position because for me, the the selling of the book almost happened before I wrote the book.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: And all my ideas were already in my head, and I thought, like, oh, let's just write a book and go for it.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think for me, uh, it's about first of all, in writing the book, I had so much content, and it I had to give to have a structure because when you have a structure, it's it's a lot easier to write, first of all, and then it all makes sense.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: That's the difficulty of writing a book, right?
18:19
SPEAKER_00: In your head, it always makes sense.
18:20
SPEAKER_00: But what once you start putting it on paper, um, you have to remember that your audience, your readers, will don't know anything about you.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like when you tell a story to a friend or somebody who knows something about you, they know the context, they know your background, they know your culture, they understand you.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: So if you're missing some points in the story, they can fill in the gaps.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: But when you write a book, it goes out to readers who don't know a thing about you.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: So you have to be very precise with your thoughts.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: I always joke and say this is like doing a merry condo cleaning of your brain, because you have to discard what is uh useless, you have to go to the essential, you have to be thorough and detailed, um, and and lots of cleaning up there, right?
19:05
SPEAKER_00: So you you do that when you write so that you make sense, that your idea comes across the way it is they are intended to.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: So for me, it was the first thing.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: I had a lot I wanted to write about.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: I just had to get a good structure.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: And then uh, you know, post-writing of the book is learning about the dealing with a finding a publisher and dealing with a publisher, um, really educating yourself about the power of social media.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really the last person you should be asking about this because I'm really not very good at it.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: However, I am fortunate to have a daughter who is a marketing manager, and you know, she's 25 years old.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: She grew up with social media, she that that's what she does.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: So she's helping me uh with TikTok and Instagram and LinkedIn and all of this, which most of it goes well over my head.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: But the power of this, I think my generation we underestimate this.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: So I would say to um to writers, educate yourself about this or surround yourself with people who know how to use all these tools so they can help you promote your book and and build around it.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: After that, you know, once you written the book, what what do you want to do?
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Um is it uh keynote speaking?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Is it workshop?
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Is it just writing another book or just happy?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Are you happy with the book itself?
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's fine.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no right or wrong.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: It just depends how far you want to take it.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, for me, I want to have, I'm trying to create right now a conversation around the book.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: And we have uh the hashtag manage like a mother, and I'm asking people to share stories of one specific lesson they have learned from their mom that helps them in their job every day.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: And we all have a story like this.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: So I'm telling people, please record a you know, one minute, two-minute video or something short, put it on social media and hashtag manage like a mother.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Because I think, first of all, we need to recognize the wisdom of mom.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Moms, you know, being a stay-at-home mom, by the way, should not be considered a setback.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: If anything, it should be considered for what it is, a way women can enhance and tweak and perfect their leadership skills.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: They just happen to do it on their kids versus doing it on their uh team members.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: So that's that whole part of the conversation.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: When I think too often women are being penalized because they put their career on hold so they can focus on their kids.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: This is a valuable training, this is a valuable experience that you have and that you can transfer and that helps you in the workplace.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: So that's something that um you know you you you need to um consider at all times.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Um this is, you know, for me, it is having that conversation will help prove that point, maybe help men realize.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: How much they've learned from their mom.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, they may consider women for leadership positions more willingly because we know that today, even though we have gender parity in the workforce, only about 35% of leaders are women.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: So, how do we fill the gap?
22:17
SPEAKER_00: The only people who can start by filling the gap are the men.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: How are we going to convince them to prove to them that mothers have a lot to bring to the table and they've learned a lot from their mom?
22:28
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, there's um for me, this is where I'm taking it.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, your book may be if it's a fiction book, non-fiction book, you know, what do you do with it?
22:38
SPEAKER_00: I think you have to really do some strategic thinking and elevate, take a bird-eye view to your book and see, okay, what could be out there?
22:49
SPEAKER_00: And um, and then go with it and and try to, and maybe not all of it will land on something of value, but it's fun exploring, I can tell you that.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's take a quick break in the conversation to thank one of our sponsors today, Vellum.
23:03
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23:21
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23:25
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23:28
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23:32
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23:37
SPEAKER_01: Now back to the conversation.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: How is how is the book connected with your consulting business?
23:42
SPEAKER_01: So I know that that both you and Dan do speaking and and probably workshops and other kinds of things that you offer to people.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: How is the book tied in specifically to other parts of your business?
23:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm curious.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I use when we do a workshop, I do a whole section on uh managing like a mother when it comes to building your team and creating a great culture, a culture where people feel empowered, loved, supporting, encouraged, um, coached, right?
24:12
SPEAKER_00: Because a mother, she gives you feedback every day, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely that it comes with the job.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And and it's actually interesting because as a mom, it's a natural thing.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: You you know you have to coach your kids, you need to give them feedback and you do that and you let them know in no uncertain terms when they misbehave or do something wrong.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: You don't have a problem doing it.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: It comes with a job.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: So, why is it that when we're in the workplace, we you know, we shy away from giving feedback, we're uncomfortable with it.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: So I use that as examples on how we should give feedback, how it needs to be mediated based on facts, uh, and and still give people the benefit of the doubt and doing it out of love because you want people to be the best performers they can be.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's another analogy that I talk about.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: But um it's all about uh for me, it's um uh you know, all these analogies, I keep developing those things, and uh and and I hope people can reflect back and do some introspection and think about how they can from their own lessons, how they can apply it and and take that to to the um to the leadership approach.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: So I share that a lot in workshops.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: One thing that's been interesting, and uh we travel, we travel quite a bit and we do work overseas.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: And I realize that you know in America, the gap between women and men is still very big, unfortunately.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: It is even worse in some countries.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: We do quite a bit of work in Brazil, and over there, it's women are well, every time I say manage like a mother, I mean, I've had women walk up to me in tears and say, thank you so much for saying this, because they don't feel that the job they do as a mom is being valued, and they don't think the job that they aspire to be in the workplace is they're not given that opportunity, and they're really hoping the book is gonna help them.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: So the book's coming out in Brazil in about a month, and I know they're working on the Spanish translation also, so I'm very excited about this.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, I leverage this in mainly talking about it and giving a again a reference that people can relate to.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I I had no idea that um that you guys went to Brazil and did uh did events there in training.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do this.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: We we've actually been to Brazil.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: I've been to Brazil four times this year, Dan's been to Brazil six times, and um we just we kind of joke, we said we are triple threats because I'm French, he's American, and we have uh a Disney experience that we talk about uh quite a bit.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: And those are three things Brazilian people just love, and we love working there because they're very enthusiastic.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a culture where people are into self-development and they're all very open to ideas and learning and and getting better at what you do.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's been a great uh uh great uh opportunity for us.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if you can talk about your experience actually writing the book, particularly the first draft.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: This is where a lot of writers quit.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, will people will start a book and then they just get discouraged about halfway through, then they quit and never pick it up again.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: How how did you actually approach this?
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Did it did you have a certain word count that you did every day or a certain time that you wrote every week?
27:32
SPEAKER_01: How did you actually craft the book?
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, it was interesting because I I was fortunate to watch my husband write his book before me.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: And then came out of you know 26 years working for Disney with tons of stories and ideas.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: So he started putting everything on paper.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: And then at the end, we pretty much had a he had a word salad kind of thing.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And it was trying to sort through and organize it and bring some structure to it.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: So having seen this and experienced this with him, I knew that for me, I had to create the skeleton of the book, first of all.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: So understanding what uh I really wanted to say.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: And initially, I wanted to write the book going both directions, meaning what leaders can teach mothers and what mothers can teach leaders.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And as I started writing, it became too discombobulated, it was too complicated.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: And I remember somebody told me, you have a lot to tell, but don't fire hose.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: And I tried to, that was the thing I try to remember every day.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Don't try to do too much.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there'll be another book down the down the road, but don't try to do too much.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: So I decided to go just in one direction being a mom, what you can learn from that, and bring to being a leader.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was the first thing.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: The the interesting thing about the word count, I remember the publisher said, Well, the book needs to be around 45,000 words.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking, oh my gosh, I will never get there.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: That's impossible.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, at 60,000 words, the publisher was like, You gotta stop it now.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, this is gonna, the book's gonna be too big.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, people get overwhelmed, they're not gonna buy the book.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: So I never thought I would get to 60,000 words, but I literally had to make some cuts and decide what would and not make the uh the book.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Now the other thing is I and I'll give you uh another story.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: One of my friends, a good friend, is an artist, and for a short time she had a gallery in Orlando, Florida, and it would help her at the gallery.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: And she would sometimes take some paintings that were up for sale, she would take them off the wall, bring them back to the easel, and start tweaking them.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And I remember telling her, stop doing this, just leave it on the wall, don't touch it, just start a new painting.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: But now that I've created something of my own, I know exactly how she felt.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: You want to go back and tweak and change and alter and add and cut something, or you you reread your first chapter you wrote, and you're like, Oh, I don't like it anymore.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: And you put it down for a couple more weeks and then you like it again, and then you don't like it, and and it never ends.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: So for me, at some point, I had to say, okay, Valerie, stop it.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: End of November, I that's it, I gotta be done.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: I am not gonna touch the book anymore.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: And the publisher was like, if you want your book published next year, you you have got to get this, you know, to get to the final manuscript.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: So that that was the way I did it.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: And to this day, I still want to go back and tweak and change and cut and add, but you know what?
30:32
SPEAKER_00: It is what it is.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: You've got to cut the umbilical code at one point and be disciplined with that.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, the writing process, because of our job and we travel so much and we do the workshop and keynotes.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have, I wasn't the best at um having a discipline every day.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, my husband did that.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: He would get up every morning at five.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: We we were, I remember we went on vacation to France to visit my family, and he was determined to write the book in that month that we're spending in France.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: So he got up every day at 5:30, would go to the local cafe and um sit down there and then write for three hours every morning.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: That was uh three or four hours, you know.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So by 10 a.m.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: or so, he would show up and and have uh you know written uh several, maybe a chapter or so.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: And it worked out for him.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh for me, where there was too much going on, so I it was little spurts.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: I would write a lot within three days, three, four days, and I would not touch it for a week.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: And then again, so I guess I'm not the best person to ask when it comes to having a disciplined approach to writing.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, you did what what works for you, and Dan did what worked for him.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And I think whatever it takes to get the book done is that's what works for you.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's got a different schedule and a different approach.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: So you got it done.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: That's the important thing.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: The interesting thing, the other thing I did is um I had to uh obviously I work with an editor because of my you know, English not being my native language.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes my thoughts were lost in translation.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: And um, Adele, who's uh Boyson, who's my uh was my editor, she would help and uh correct my grammar and uh punctuation and uh vocab sometimes.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: And I asked her, I said, you know, as you read the book, if you read something that you're not sure you don't quite understand what I'm getting at, because like I said earlier, it all made sense in my head, but once it's on paper, it might not be very clear.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: I said, just give me a little question mark in the margin and let me know that this is kind of weird.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: And she did that, which was tremendous help.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: So I was able to, you know, go back and rework some stuff.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Because the problem is my husband knows my life, my friends know my life, um, my family does.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: So asking them to read the book and give me feedback, well, they could fill in the blanks, you know.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: But having somebody who didn't know, I've never to this day, I still have not met Adele.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: She lives in in Guatemala, and um, and she knew nothing about me, which was great because you know, she could really put the question marks where I it really did not make much sense uh for somebody who didn't know anything about me.
33:09
SPEAKER_01: Gosh, I feel like there's there's a million questions that I have about about all this all this process and the content from the book, I know and I obviously want to respect your time.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: One question that I want to ask you though, Valerie, is something that I feel like I wish I would have asked more of my guests because it's I think it's an interesting question, but I I'm gonna start being more intentional about this.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And and the question is how will you measure success of this book?
33:34
SPEAKER_01: Will it be book sales?
33:35
SPEAKER_01: Is it more anecdotal things where people tell you it impacted their lives?
33:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, what are the metrics for you personally that will determine whether you feel like the book is is a success or not?
33:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, me, it's not the book sales.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: I have zero expectations for the book.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't want to, you know, go out there and say, oh, I need to sell 50,000 copies or 100,000 copies.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea what is considered to be a successful book, first of all.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't even know what the standards are.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: That's not something I'm focused on.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm more interested in the conversation around it.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I mentioned earlier the web page we are creating, and that's going to be kind of a community page where hopefully people will share the stories of what they learned with their moms, those short videos I was talking about.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: This is why the hashtag manage like a mother thing for me is so important because the more we converse, the more we talk about it, the richer the conversation, the more learnings, the more insights.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: And and that's where the value is.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, this is where you can help people grow, but you can continue to grow yourself.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: So I guess for me, this is where I I put, if I can continue to learn from that book, I would be thrilled.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: This is my measure of success.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: What a great perspective, too.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: It's you know what?
34:59
SPEAKER_00: I I think we always say with my husband, the first 25 years of your life, you learn.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: The second 25 years you do.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: And the the third 25 years of your life, that's where I'm I'm at, um, you teach, you share.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: And uh it and then over that it's just everything is bonus, right?
35:18
SPEAKER_00: But the idea of, you know, you start thinking as you get over 50, you start thinking about legacy, how you impact people, how you you leave something behind.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's why the the conversation for me is so important.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: That's why I want to hear people say, you know, I never thought about leadership this way.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I never thought about how much my mom has influenced my life.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: And seeing people doing that kind of introspection, that's where the value is for me.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: Wow, this is great.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: It's really great stuff.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Valerie, thanks for being a guest today.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: This has been an absolute blast.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: And uh I can't wait to see all the ways that your book is going to impact people.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: What are the ways that people can get your book?
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, people can go to Amazon and bookstores, but can they also find out more about what you're doing?
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and if so, where would they go to find that out?
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm on obviously now I'm on social media.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, it looks like I'm on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: So Valerie Cockroel, uh, you'll find me on Instagram and and all of that.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, we are our organization is called Cockroel Consulting in one word.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to reach out to me, you can.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: And I love, I love engaging with readers, with audience, with clients.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: And so if you have a question, a remark, a review, uh, you know, something you want to debate about, uh, please reach out to me at valery at cockroelconsulting.com.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: And uh don't hesitate to do this because again, having the conversation for me, that's where that's what I value the most.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking forward to doing that.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you again for being a guest.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: This has been an absolute pleasure.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Kent.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, once again, I'm excited to see the success of the book and how it impacts people.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: What a great topic and what a great approach.
37:01
unknown: I love it.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate this, and thanks again for the invitation.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: And gosh, I know I say that all the time, but I really love the conversations that I get to have here on this podcast.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, even though this is a brand new version of my podcast, so literally I'm only in my second week of the Profitable Rider podcast in terms of this version of the show.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: I've actually been doing podcasting for 10 years, in fact, since 2013.
37:30
SPEAKER_01: And if you look in the podcast feed, you'll see these episodes go way back.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think they go all the way back to 2013 because those first batch of episodes that I did, I didn't really know what I was doing, and those aren't in the podcast feed.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: But they go back seven or eight years or something like that.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's really fun to be able to talk to people who are smart and accomplished and who are really successful authors, just like Valeria's.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: So I hope you enjoyed this conversation just as much as I did.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: I want to encourage you to visit her website, which is Cockrill Consulting.com.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Again, there's a link in the show notes.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And also to grab her book, Manage Like a Mother.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: It's super interesting, it's a different take on leadership, and you know what such a great concept.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: I'm really surprised there, at least to my knowledge, there hasn't been a book quite like this ever published on leadership before.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: So I know women are gonna automatically be interested in this, especially if you're a mother.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: But guys, don't ignore this book just because you're not a woman or a mother.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh in fact, I would super encourage you to do this, uh, to grab the book because you're gonna learn some things that probably you wouldn't learn from a book by a man or or by a father.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: So make sure and grab the book, it's really, really super good.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: Want to thank Valerie for taking time out to be a guest on today's episode.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: And of course, as always, I wanted to say thanks to you, the listener, for making time to check out this episode.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you so much.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: Before I go today, I want to give a huge thanks to a couple of our sponsors.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: The first is Thumbprint Creative.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: And you've heard the saying, don't judge a book by its cover, but in the book world, it is absolutely not true.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: People do judge the quality of the book by its cover.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: In fact, the cover design is the very first thing that people notice about a book.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's why my graphic designer of choice is Christy Griffith, who is the owner of Thumbprint Creative.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: I've worked with Christy for years, and she's designed covers and interior layouts for my own books, my ghostwriting client books, as well as a lot of books for friends that I've sent her away.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: Christy works really closely with you to design a layout that perfectly captures the theme and the genre of your book.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Visit go thumbprint.com to learn more and to connect with Christy.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: And if you'd like a personal introduction to Christy.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: If you're interested in working with a great graphic designer, just shoot me an email, Kent at the profitablewriter.com.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: I would be happy to make a personal introduction.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Also want to give a huge thanks to our other sponsor for today, which is There Is No Such Thing as Writer's Block, the brand new book from my friend and business coach Honore Corter.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: If you've been dreaming of being more productive in your writing, or you want to grow your writing business, Honore can really help you learn the secrets to keeping the words flowing.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: You'll learn what's really blocking you, the value of building your writer tribe, how to become the writer you've always dreamed of being, and so much more.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: I really encourage you to pick up this book.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter if you are brand new to writing and brand new to business, or if you've been writing and maybe you've had a business for decades, this book, seriously, I know when I have podcast sponsors, I know that I talk them up and I say, check this out, check that out.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I want you to know a couple things.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Just before I wrap up this episode, I hadn't planned on saying this, but I'm gonna go ahead and share this.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: I don't have sponsors on the show that I don't believe in.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Whenever you hear a sponsor on this podcast, it's because I've connected with them personally and I really, really like their product or service, and I personally use it.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: So I just want you to know that.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Second of all, this book in particular, There's no such thing as writer's as Writer's Block by Honor Recorder, is a really, really good book.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I told her recently, this is like one of my I mean, she's written dozens and dozens of books.
41:00
SPEAKER_01: This is one of my top three favorite books of hers of all time.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: The book is seriously really, really good.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter who you are or where you are on the writing journey, you're going to get a lot out of this book, I promise you.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: There's a link in the show notes to grab your copy from Amazon.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: I highly encourage you to do that.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: I promise you're gonna love it.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: Alright, my friend, as always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.