Latest / Rinkside Rundown / Dr. Katie Peterson on Mental Health in Sports and the Unique Pressure Females Face

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Dr. Katie Peterson on Mental Health in Sports and the Unique Pressure Females Face · Rinkside Rundown

• speaker-0: Part of it is figuring out some of the like, okay, what can we control and how can we actually measure ⁓ success or growth or improvement. ⁓ you know, sometimes we want to measure our our success based on like points, right? And so ⁓ helping people recognize that like there are so many things that go into how many points we get in a game that are wildly out of our control. speaker-1: Hello and welcome back to Rinkside Rundown, the podcast that brings you inside the world of women's hockey one story at a time. I'm your host, Chris Sinclair, and today I'm joined by Dr. Katie Peterson, a licensed sports psychologist and two time NCAA champion. Katie, welcome to the show. How you doing? speaker-0: I'm doing great. Thanks. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. speaker-1: Absolutely. Should I call you Doctor Peterson or is Katie gonna be just fine? speaker-0: Katie is just fine. Doctor Peterson's a little formal, but sometimes I go by doctor Katie, but Katie is just fine today. speaker-1: Dr. Katie, got it. Okay, so ⁓ we're gonna start off today's episode as we always do on the show, and it's a it's a tradition where we learn how you first discovered hockey. So what is your story? How did hockey become a part of your life? speaker-0: Yeah. So I have two older brothers. So I feel like, you know, a lot of times when ⁓ little girls have older brothers, they got into it first. ⁓ my parents talk about it ⁓ quite often actually. How my oldest brother, who's six years older than me, ⁓ one day was like, I wanna try hockey. And they were like, Well, sure, why not? And then all three of us got into it. ⁓ and so I really just, you know, wanted to do everything they did. one of the first pictures I have in hockey gear, I'm like, two standing underneath ⁓ like the island overhang in my brother's gear. It's super cute. ⁓ and so ever since then I just really, yeah, like I said, wanted to be like them and got into it. ⁓ and then when I finished college, I think it was twenty five years for my my parents that they were going to the hockey rink a lot of days a week. So speaker-1: A lot of days a week. Yeah. They they probably early on were like, Why did we say yes, this is the most expensive sport they could have chosen? And all of them chose it. speaker-0: Yep. Yeah, start off, you know, with the oldest one day a week and then at one point all three of us were traveling and it was speaker-1: Five years later. Yeah. Yeah. what do you remember most about those early days in your experiences at the rink? Was it at the rink? Was it maybe the drive to and from the rink, practices, being around friends? What was it? Do you remember? speaker-0: Well, so I grew up in Rochester, ⁓ here in Minnesota. And so the young kids had to get on the ice super early in the morning before school. And so that is some of my earliest memories of getting ready in the kitchen, like sitting by the heater, ⁓ 'cause it was so cold and trying to tie your skates when your hands are like tired in in the morning. It's just that like pain. ⁓ but some of those of like they were so early and you were so tired, but like what a great way to start the day. Just a chance to like one, get a little bit of exercise in, but two, like spend time with friends and and all of that. And so those memories I think from way back really stand out to me. and then really just the opportunity to hang out with friends and kind of the social side of it was really huge for me. ⁓ I played a little bit of girls and boys hockey growing up. And so kind of getting both of those experiences ⁓ really stand out to me too. And boys was I was fortunate. Boys hockey was really fun for me and ⁓ the team I was on those couple of years, the kids were great. I know that's not always every girl's experience. And so those couple of years really, really stand out to me too, 'cause they were a lot of fun. speaker-1: Thinking back to those early days, do you ever do could you ever have imagined yourself being in a position where hockey would have taken you from those, you know, those those early mornings, ⁓ super cold when you were a little kid, all the way through NCAA champion and now as a sports psychologist? Do you do you ever think that could have been your path? speaker-0: No. I mean, I feel like every little girl dreams, right? ⁓ and really kind of it feels so like big and who knows where hockey's gonna take me and you're just living so in the moment, I think, right? You have dreams versus really seeing what it could look like. And even some of those of like having the dream to play college hockey, it feels so different when you're in it. ⁓ and then now, right, like like you said, working with athletes who are in very similar shoes as I was in. and all of that, like no, I couldn't have couldn't have dreamed up a better, you know, kind of blend of all of all of my experiences, things that are important to me. ⁓ obviously the the education side of it really like into this one little ⁓ pot of awesomeness. But no, I really couldn't have kind of dreamed it would work out this way. speaker-1: Be a little accident. That's what they call them. I like it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. ⁓ a lot of this conversation, of course, as you're a sports psychologist, is going to be around the mental side of the game. So I wanted to get your perspective. As, you know, as I mentioned off the top, ⁓ NCAA champion ⁓ with Minnesota, no big deal. Congratulations once again. I know you've been told congratulations a thousand times. ⁓ especially doing it more than once. How did those experiences maybe shape your perspective on the mental side of the game? You knew the physical side, but winning and that demand, what did that teach you, those experiences teach you about the mental side? speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, like you said, right, the physical side is kind of the the day to day grind. ⁓ and really that the I mean, I didn't I feel like have as much of a framework around it then as I do now, right? ⁓ but really kind of looking back, like our ability as a team to like stay as a unit and to not like get too high or too low, and we talk about that all the time. ⁓ but to really, you know, support each other when we weren't scoring as much in a game or when, you know, maybe we let in a goal that wasn't great. ⁓ but to just kind of like rally around each other and not take it out on each other or get too far down, I think was really one of the keys to our success. My senior year, so twenty thirteen was the year we went undefeated, ⁓ that year. And so I think that side of it was huge for that whole whole season, right? If ⁓ you know, one line wasn't performing exactly how they wanted to, kind of the rest of the team picked it up. ⁓ and the way that the whole team supported each other from first line all the way through fourth line, or if people weren't dressing, ⁓ I think was huge as well. ⁓ that everybody had a role, everybody leaned into their role ⁓ and kind of supported each other and everybody like could feel that value ⁓ from top to bottom. And so like I think that side of it was super important. for just kind of how we were successful that year. speaker-1: And ⁓ kind of thinking ⁓ again with ⁓ when it comes to the mental side of it, as you went through your collegiate career, did you feel yourself that sort of the maybe the the ⁓ the priority or the focus kind of shifting to understanding how just how important? Yes, of course you want to train, you want to be able to perform well on the ice, but to be able to perform well on the ice, often surprisingly, actually takes place away from the ice and a lot of that is the mental side. Do you do you feel like when you look back at your c collegiate career specifically, that kind of perspective changed and evolved throughout your collegiate career? Or was it something that you had instilled in you sort of early on? speaker-0: Yeah, no, I think it ⁓ certainly evolved and changed and we you know, sport psychology was kind of becoming a thing in my college time and so that got incorporated a little bit. I certainly wish I had used it more, you know, and kind of seen the value it it could have had. And I do think my own mental side got in the way a little bit of some of ⁓ my own collegiate experience from like a performance standpoint. And so I certainly looking back, I'm like, ⁓ shoot, you know, I know all these things now that I didn't know then. and for me, I wasn't one of the like top players on the team. And I actually there was a lot of times I didn't get a lot of playing time. And so that mental side, I think from that standpoint, like did become really important to me and kind of this whole ⁓ you know, like identity piece and like what is this like what is my role on the team and how do I lean into that and how do I like still feel good about what I'm doing, ⁓ and how I'm supporting my team and you know. Who am I? And like all of that kind of stuff. And so from that perspective, I certainly think, you know, I kind of shifted over over time throughout my college career and really ⁓ leaned into to that side of the mental game. but yeah, I think there are certainly ways, you know, my own, you know, kind of performance anxiety or things like that, I think could have been really beneficial if I would have ⁓ kind of leaned into it a little more in college. speaker-1: Yeah, the value of hindsight, right? Right. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ I guess then I'm just gonna kind of ask bluntly, you've you've met you've kind of ⁓ alluded to it a little bit here, but what inspired that change from being on the ice and focused on performing and and being that athlete on the ice to helping those athletes away from the ice as a sports psychologist? speaker-0: Yeah. I mean, really kind of forever. I've like naturally, even like in youth hockey and kind of growing up tended to be somebody that like people would go to ⁓ if like things are happening. So just kind of that like natural like support person just ⁓ is really I don't kind of my go to or like natural for me, I guess. And so ⁓ in that in that way, psychology. ⁓ kind of pushed me towards psychology, right? ⁓ and then I've taken a very windy path to get to kind of land on the sport psychology area. You know, I know some people have a very straight path to how they get here. ⁓ I did not. I've done a wide range of things. I've done corporate strategy. ⁓ my fellowship was in health and rehab ⁓ psychology, which is has a lot of overlap to sport psychology, but so yeah, kind of a windy a windy way. But I think like really finding this space, right? Kind of like I said at ⁓ the beginning a little bit ago, that really like weaves in all of, you know, my interests in terms of just like active lifestyle, like not even competitive sport, right? But just like active lifestyle, taking care of our bodies, ⁓ and kind of accomplishing goals in that way while also being able to have the psychology side of it, ⁓ and supporting people. I think just ended up feeling like a really natural fit. ⁓ And then was fortunate enough to link up with with Achieve and so ⁓ have kind of yeah, weaved it in this way, which is a yeah, a very interesting way to get here. But here I am. speaker-1: Yeah, here you are. And that's what matters, right? Yeah, absolutely. And all of those things are just more added value and added experiences to your life that you can then relate to even more people that you ⁓ that you speak with ⁓ through your line of work. So that's that's totally fine. we were actually introduced through the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy. And so I want to touch on that and your involvement with that that ⁓ that organization and to just kind of give a little bit of perspective. They empower female players through webinars, camps, and workshops covering nutrition, training, ⁓ mental conditioning, menstrual and form training, and of course athletic training. How did you first get involved with them? And what's that experience been like for you to be able to support then help support the next generation of female hockey players? speaker-0: Yeah, Chloe had ⁓ who runs the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy. ⁓ she had reached out early in the fall. and really we had one phone conversation and like I was all in. ⁓ like hearing her explain just kind of her vision for the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy and really like the way she identified the the gaps, which I think if you follow, you know, girls and women's hockey, you know there's a lot of gaps and just kind of the way that she has kind of identified those and really tried to fill in some of those gaps. ⁓ was really inspiring to just like hear from her and hear her vision. And so ⁓ we agreed to kind of team up on a few things and it's been a lot of fun. ⁓ you know, we've done some webinars ⁓ and that and it was really cool. We did one about, you know, specifically coaching, coaching girls and ⁓ to interact with those coaches from all around the country. We had people from, you know, east to west on this webinar. and hearing them connect about very similar, you know, challenges, but also how they're trying to inspire these girls and kind of helping ⁓ these young athletes find avenues that aren't necessarily really clearly like carved in stone for some of the where hockey isn't super big. ⁓ and so it was really cool just to see everybody come together and kind of offer my insight about some little tips and tricks for for coaching girls. ⁓ but so it's been really fun to just see the way she's trying to build ⁓ just more avenues and connections for girls playing hockey. speaker-1: And through this experien through those experiences, through those connections, through those webinars that you've been doing, ⁓ what are maybe some of the things that have surprised you the most? Maybe it's from ⁓ your approach to those conversations, maybe it's the the types of conversations that you're hearing in those webinars from the ⁓ from the participants. Maybe you share some of things from From the the biggest surprises for you thus far in your experiences with the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, when when you say surprise, I think part of my mind goes to like I think being in Minnesota, I may be a little bit like insulated ⁓ in terms of like how girls and women's hockey is continuing to grow, right? Like there's high school programs are continuing to get significantly stronger here. ⁓ obviously we have the frost, like all of that. ⁓ and so I think part of what has been the most surprising of the From when I played back when I was like sixteen, right? Some of these other areas like don't have really many more resources for these young girls playing hockey than they did 10 years ago, 10, 15 years ago, despite the fact that I think there is more players and more interest. And so I think that was a little bit, you know, surprising and I think amplifies why, you know, girls women's hockey academy is so important, ⁓ to continue to kind of Find those resources and streamline some of these for these girls. But ⁓ other than that, I think, you know, really the I don't know, the excitement. I I think back to the one we did with the coaches, ⁓ and specifically coaching girls. And and I think not necessarily surprising, but it was really exciting just to hear their excitement for coaching girls and really their drive to like find these unique ways to connect with the athletes and make them feel safe and make them feel all the things ⁓ while trying to get the most. out of them. So maybe not surprising, but it was just really, really cool to hear their excitement and to kind of see that passion from these coaches. speaker-1: Absolutely. And if you're already not or not already following the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy, please do make sure to do just that. Tons of great webinars coming up, tons of great courses. It's a fantastic thing ⁓ resource for so many. So make sure to give them a follow. ⁓ all that information will be in the show notes. ⁓ I do want to ⁓ kind of expand beyond we we got started talking a little bit there about ⁓ women's hockey and and the growth and and the mental side there. So I want to dive in a little bit more into that as well, but beyond just the Girls and Women's Hockey Academy. ⁓ what would you say are some of the unique mental challenges that female hockey players face today? speaker-0: Yeah. I think, you know, when I think of like middle school and high school girls, for example, right, I think ⁓ being a teenager, especially a female teenager, I think is so hard. There's so many just like social pressure, you know, kind of that societal pressure. Obviously, we have social media that has its pros and cons and all of that. And so really I think some of that kind of mix, right? Of this like trying to navigate the world as a teen and adolescent girl. ⁓ and really trying to figure out like, how do I fit into society and how do I like find space and like have a voice and all of that. ⁓ and then you throw in a sport that you're like trying to be competitive at and all of that. And I think that mix can be super hard sometimes. ⁓ depending on what social circles look like and what team dynamics are, it can really make that hard. I think ⁓ girls more so than boys, I really see a lot of the like fear of making mistakes in the sense of like I don't want to disappoint my teammates and I don't want to disappoint my coaches or my parents. And so ⁓ I see that part, kind of that ⁓ fear of disappointment a lot more in girls than I do with boys. And so ⁓ just kind of the way that mixes into you know, fitting in with the team and kind of the social side of things too when you don't want to disappoint your teammates or you feel like you have, I think really adds to kind of the pressure to perform well ⁓ for speaker-1: One of the things that I really one of the many things I really value about your approach to ⁓ sports psychology, of course, in general, but more specifically, of course, the the the female hockey side of it is that one of the things that you say is you want to meet athletes where they are. Why is that so important to you? And is that something that has long been an approach for you? Or just like we've talked about before, has that been an an evolving approach for you throughout your experiences? speaker-0: That's definitely something that, you know, even prior to my work with ath athletes or outside of my work with athletes, whether that's with, you know, ⁓ yeah, somebody who's, you know, a a weekend warrior, right? Trying to compete in a 5K or like a business professional, whatever it is, ⁓ really meeting people where they're at is certainly a core tenet of just how I approach my work with folks. I am very much not like a here's the the manual we're gonna do. ⁓ so you want to work on confidence. So day one is this like hop on board or hop out. because I I don't think that's effective for one. ⁓ and two, like that's just very much not my approach. And so like if you're somebody who has the foundations for confidence, like we don't need to start there. And we can meet exact like you had said, exactly where you're at and kind of continue to build on what ⁓ kind of the scaffolding of the foundation that you already have. ⁓ and if you're somebody who this is like totally new, ⁓ like trying to even identify like how do I talk to myself? ⁓ and how can I build on that, right? It's gonna be a very different starting place than somebody who's, you know, like knows exactly how they talk to themselves in high pressure moments or ⁓ knows exactly kind of the way their body feels in certain situations. really, there's such a range of How much ⁓ people have kind of spent time either looking internally or things like that. And so if we don't find out where people are at and start there, I think you can be on totally separate pages. And I just don't find it ⁓ as effective. For sure for the sports stuff, and I think part of what I really enjoy about our work too is really just also like life stuff. And so You know, sometimes like if I'm just showing up like, okay, today we're gonna talk about confidence and like here we are, but really, you know, you fail the test today or you had a death in the family, or something else really exciting happened, like we're just gonna be on different pages about what feels the most important to you for the day. And that just ⁓ doesn't sit well with me of kind of like whatever comes to the table, like let's focus on that ⁓ as the priority. speaker-1: Yeah, of course. Yeah. And it's a great way to build trust, right? When you meet somebody where they are, rather than trying to force your perspective or force your starting point on that conversation, it's like, no, let's just we this is a partnership. We have to build trust, and that's partly done by meeting people where they are. I I realized we just dove right into that and I didn't even give you a chance to talk about achieve. So do you want to talk about ⁓ achieve performance and speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: And what that's been like for you, how long you've been there, the work that you do more broadly, and then we'll get back into the conversation. Realize I was so excited, dove right into it. Didn't even t give you a chance to talk about achievement. speaker-0: No, it's all good. Yeah. So Achieve Performance Psychology, there's me and one other psychologist, Dr. Allie Wagner, who was the the founder and the owner of the clinic. ⁓ she started Achieve in early 2022. ⁓ and then I came on just a few months later. and so I've been there for yeah, coming on on four years, was doing more like kind of part-time stuff there ⁓ while I was finishing up my training, doing my fellowship, ⁓ all of that. And so Obviously now being there ⁓ full time, it's been really fun to work with her, ⁓ kind of in a more consistent capacity. ⁓ but yeah, so we work with ⁓ athletes of all ages. I think the youngest ⁓ is like five that we have at the at the clinic, ⁓ all the way through, you know, professional, retired athletes, ⁓ and every range, right? So whether that's ⁓ you know, a youth athlete who is just trying to build confidence and have fun, right? And their goals and their parents' goals, or they just want to be able to walk away from from sport enjoying it. And right now they're not, right? Because they're too hard on themselves or whatever that is. ⁓ all the way through the, you know, professional athletes just trying to have a little bit more of an edge, but all in all, they're they're doing great. So really the full the full range there. So we do individual work, teamwork, ⁓ where we work with know we'll come in and work with the whole team on different topics, whether that's team dynamics or, you know, kind of confidence or whatever that may be with the teams. ⁓ and then we also work with like businesses and business professionals doing like executive coaching and that kind of stuff as well. and then one of the other things we have at Achieve is ⁓ like psyched psychological assessment. And so we have predominantly like an ADHD learning disability ⁓ clinic where we do a pretty comprehensive ⁓ psych exams ⁓ and testing and all that fun stuff. I I run that. ⁓ and so that's another area of passion of mine. And so that's been been really fun too. But so a little bit we do a lot with the athletes for that and kind of able to give some tailored recommendations toward athletes, but a little bit separate than the straight sports psychology work ⁓ doing the testing. speaker-1: And you've mentioned a couple of times throughout this conversation as well around confidence. And I wanna so I wanna dive into confidence a little bit more specifically, just for a moment here. ⁓ because it is often considered one of the cornerstones of success, is the more confident you are, likely the better you're gonna be able to perform, or at least more consistently ⁓ you'd be able to do so. ⁓ what do you think, based on your experience, both as an athlete yourself as well as through your work ⁓ with Achieve? What are some of the common mis misconceptions about confidence and and and that's that sort of mentality or mental space that you've encountered? speaker-0: Think one of the most common things I hear ⁓ from athletes who when we're talking about confidence ⁓ are kind of using these examples of other like strong players of like, ⁓ like I just I want to have as much confidence as this person or fill in the blank, right? ⁓ and kind of this idea that because this other person ⁓ is a really strong player, therefore they must have confidence. ⁓ which The irony is I'm like sitting there having a conversation with somebody who is arguably just as good as that player or like also like really good or a really strong player. and so I think that is something I see a lot that's been a little bit surprising too, ⁓ of just this, you know, assumption that everybody has that if you're very good, you have a lot of confidence when ⁓ they don't always go together. you know, I think sometimes some of our some of the strongest players, right, are the ones who like really really struggle to see ⁓ all the ways they have improved or to see the like good enough, right? in a lot of high achieving folks, nothing's ever good enough. ⁓ and so that can really impact the confidence, right? Like to everybody else's perspective, this person played great or they're a really strong player. ⁓ and to them, like it's just not quite good enough, which certainly impacts the confidence there. So I think that's probably been one of the most like surprising or kind of misnomers, I think you had said. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ how do how in the world do you balance pushing someone to see their potential and maybe challenge their perceptions of themselves? Cause I think that's and we we all suffer from that, of course, whether you're an athlete or or not, the perception that you have of yourself is often very different than anyone else has a perception of you, of course. How do you balance? ⁓ sort of challenging a player or or an individual to see their success and to see their potential with also being compassionate and understanding of their current situation and where they might be at mentally. speaker-0: I mean, I think that's, yeah, one of the the hardest things, right? Of this, like, how do we get when we are oftentimes not great ⁓ evaluators of ourselves, right? But how do we get somebody to kind of either see other people's feedback or to see kind of some of the growth they've had ⁓ when we do have a tendency to like be fairly hard on ourselves? And so some of it is a little bit of exploration, kind of going back to meeting people where they're at, of this like, what what is underneath ⁓ some of the struggle with with confidence and kind of trying to figure out ⁓ like what's what's getting at them. But ⁓ you know, part of it is figuring out some of the like, okay, what can we control and how can we actually measure ⁓ success or growth or improvement. ⁓ you know, sometimes we want to measure our our success based on like points, right? And so ⁓ helping people recognize that like there are so many things that go into how many points we get in a game that are wildly out of our control. And if that's how we're gonna define whether we're like playing well or whether we had a good game or whether we feel good about ourselves, like we are relying on a lot of other things to go well that we can't control. And so kind of breaking it down a little bit of like how can we measure that? ⁓ but then also the like. Figuring out like, okay, what does confidence mean to you? And what are the other things that like make you feel good as a player, right? Of is that interacting with teammates? Is that, you know, effort? Is that you know, fill in the blank? And so kind of finding multiple areas other than just one that make people feel feel good and like they're, you know, leaning into their own values and accomplishing things they want to accomplish ⁓ that aren't so like production based or productivity based. ⁓ that are just kind of more wide ranging as a person. speaker-1: Yeah, and I think again, that's something that we all ⁓ sort of struggle with because it's a lot easier to measure success when there's a a tangible number. Whether it's, you know, you're in in school, you are passing or you are failing. Like there's a tangible number that's associated with that. This mental stuff, it's like, ⁓ how do I measure? Am I getting like I don't know how to measure that. There's no like number system that I could go off of that would clearly define that. So ⁓ it makes sense to be able to look ⁓ it makes sense that a lot of athletes would take that perspective because you're always driving, you always want to be better, and to be better often means goals, it means saves, it means all of those things, right? speaker-0: Yeah. Right. And that's ⁓ you know, how a lot of ⁓ players get some of that external feedback, right? And for so often, especially like top level players, you're getting a lot of positive external reinforcement, ⁓ whether that's from making the stronger team or from coaches or from parents or from random people on the street being like, ⁓ my gosh, hey, great game. ⁓ and so it's a bit of a process to kind of turn that ⁓ internal a little bit of like how do we feel good about what we're putting the table, ⁓ on the ice or off the ice. ⁓ and not necessarily just relying on that external feedback or validation. The game doesn't go how we want it to go. How like what are some things that we can still find ⁓ that we did well and that we can feel good about? ⁓ it doesn't have to perfect. ⁓ but that, you know, we can kind of carry with us forward to kind of help build that that confidence. speaker-1: And sometimes the most impactful players, speaking specifically about sports, of course, sometimes the most impactful players are the ones that actually don't appear on the score sheet. So and that's it's difficult. It's easy for us to say that externally or out of the scenario, but when you're in it, you're like, I didn't show up on the score sheet. That means I didn't make an impact on the game. But there's so many other pieces to a game that you can be successful at that actually make you a star in that game. Yeah. At least that's my perspective. speaker-0: Yeah, I totally, totally agree. I think both that side of it, right? Of like you're just a solid consistent player this game. And yeah, maybe there was nothing flashy. ⁓ but then also like the responding to mistakes, right? Of this, like, yeah, we're not gonna play perfect. We're gonna make mistakes. And do we ⁓ slam our stick on the ice and stomp our feet, or do we like hop on our horse and backtrack? ⁓ and kind of some of those, right? Like that's not gonna show up on the score sheet either. ⁓ but those types of things can absolutely be game changers ⁓ for a team. speaker-1: Sure, there is now more so than ever a lot of pressure on female hockey players because there's now this added spotlight. And of course, correct me if I'm wrong. ⁓ I think there's probably more to it than I'm oversimplifying it for sure. ⁓ but at least there there it seems as though there's a lot more pressure, there could be a lot more pressure as a result of that spotlight. How do you support players in managing? the stress and maybe the expectations through that added spotlight. speaker-0: I think I mean right now I do see it a lot. There's certainly the added pressure. And it seems like there's at least with the athletes I'm working with, it seems like there's so much excitement around all of it still. ⁓ that in a way that's maybe masking ⁓ the pressure, ⁓ but kind of like in a positive way, like overshadowing a little bit of this like realization still that like, ⁓ there could be more. after college for me, if I wanted there to be, you know, just because I'm like maybe not on the Olympic team or in the in the pipeline to be on the next Olympic team in twenty twenty twenty thirty. Whoa. speaker-1: Well, speaker-0: you know, maybe just because I'm not there, like there is still this opportunity for me that I could play after college. And so ⁓ it really seems like there's a lot of excitement around that. I think the added visibility, and maybe that pressure has more really like leached into the high school athletes. I see, more than kind of the college athletes of just the you know, the recruiting process has gotten so much more intense. I think it's really picked up in the past couple of years. Now a lot of people are using recruiting advisors. and you know, all of these things, whether that's like social media and there's just so many different platforms and ways to get recognized and all that, which is great. And it's like it's just a lot to navigate. And so I think in some ways ⁓ for you know the really, really top athletes, there's just a lot. Tolaran and kind of figure of like who do I trust in this process? ⁓ because now there is some of this recognition and you don't really know ⁓ who's in it for what. ⁓ and then some of the other athletes where like maybe the, you know, D three recruiting process was more laid back. Like it's not anymore. And so I think there's a little bit of that where the all of it just feels a little bit higher stakes because of the recognition. That's really kind of gone into the collegiate level, I think, which again is great ⁓ that it's there. And so I think it's just a lot of newness for people to navigate and kind of figure out like, what does this look like? Do I need an advisor? Do I not? ⁓ is it too late for me to play college hockey? Is it not? Do I want to? so I really I think I see the added stress with the visibility more so in this indirect way with my high school athletes ⁓ than college right now. speaker-1: I w I I I wanna make sure that we we include some maybe tangible tools that people can use to kind of manage that stress. I don't want to take away too many of the secrets of the business, of course. ⁓ but but at least, you know, a couple of tangible things that people can do to maybe change their perspective, to maybe slow down, to maybe appreciate the moment, ⁓ and to not let that mental. side of the game impact their confidence away from the ice as well. speaker-0: There's so many. ⁓ no, I think one of my kind of go-to's like I do a lot of kind of like mind-body connection type work with with my athletes and and chatting about that. And so I think one of the things that I like to talk with them about of in these like high pressure games, right? Or when we're starting to feel like maybe things aren't going our way, ⁓ you know, all of that side of things of really kind of like checking in with our body, like where am I at? Physically, right? Like, how is my breathing? Is my body really tense? Am I like really reserved from my teammates? Am I, you know, kind of just kind of taking a a body scan, right? Of like, where am I? Like, how am I doing? What's happening for me? ⁓ and then, you know, kind of comparing that to how do those things feel? And what are we doing when things are going well? ⁓ when we're playing our best, when we're having a lot of fun. How does my body feel? How am I interacting with my teammates? Right. Typically, people are having more conversations. They're talking in between shifts. They're ⁓ you know, doing all of that. And when things aren't going well, we're kind of doing the opposite. And so really encouraging ⁓ athletes to try to pick a couple of those things that they do when things are going well, ⁓ and trying to lean into those, right? Because our body is sending a lot of signals to our brain. And if we're like really disengaged and kind of shut down. Our body is continuing to send those signals of like, I'm not okay. This is not okay. And so if we can step into a space where it kind of starts to send those things that, like, okay, like I'm okay, like we're good, I'm having fun, you know, we're more likely to kind of pull that onto the ice as well. ⁓ and so really kind of, yeah, checking in with where we're at. Do we need to relax our shoulders? Do we need to take a deep breath? Do we need to like actually get our heart rate going? ⁓ or is it as simple as like, I'm gonna really focus on just like, saying a few words to my teammates in between shifts because sometimes that can kind of pull us out of that a little bit and kind of pull us back into like a positive energy type space. speaker-1: We've spoken a lot about the individual, the player, but they're not the only one as a part of this equation to being able to be successful ⁓ in terms of your mental space. ⁓ that also involves parents, coaches, organizations. What are some of the things that maybe they could be also doing from your perspective that would lend themselves to ⁓ of course in combination with the hard work that the athletes are putting in, but in order to help them be even more successful. speaker-0: I think, you know, thinking about parents, right? There are a lot of athletes who, whether that's feel pressure from their parents or kind of like I'd mentioned before, like they don't want to disappoint their parents or their coaches. and I think sometimes just like for coaches too, ⁓ but really just like checking in with the athlete, right? Of like, hey, like how do you feel like that game went? ⁓ you know, like from a parent, right? How do you feel like that game went? ⁓ do you want some feedback on it? and you know, what could I do to best support you? Today, right? Like I know some athletes who are like, I love when I get the feedback from my parents. I don't, I'm not always in a mood to respond, but I love that they give it to me. Right. And sometimes it's like, you know what? If they would just wait a day, I would love to watch film with my parents and kind of nitpick it. But like in the moment right after, it's just not the space. And so having some of those conversations and kind of like checking in about like when is my athlete receptive to hear some of this feedback or do they want to hear it? Do they want to hear praise? ⁓ and really kind of meeting them where they're at if we want to go full circle. speaker-1: Exactly what I was just gonna say that same thing. So yeah, that's exactly what I was hearing. Yeah, absolutely. Meet people where they are. I like that. That's good. Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ you know, and it doesn't mean that we have to always be super positive and we can't, you know, give constructive criticism, right? But part of it's just about like finding the tone and the time ⁓ to deliver it so that they can hear what we're trying to say, ⁓ and that it comes off as supportive and helpful and not just like naggy ⁓ or like we're disappointed and things like that. And so similarly with coaches, right? Of kind of finding finding what that is for for each athlete. How does that look? How can I communicate best with each person? you know, does this person need a little bit more positive reinforcement? Does this person love the nitpicky feedback? and really just kind of trying to tailor some of that to the athletes. and then yeah, organizations, I think creating opportunity for athletes to be able to check in with somebody, to have a sports psychologist around for youth teams to to bring in a sport psychologist. ⁓ Two things. I think obviously the performance side, it's helpful. ⁓ and I do think continuing to like destigmatize this idea of talking to somebody, whether that's about sport and performance or about mental health in general. And the more we create avenues and like reduce barriers for athletes being able to talk to somebody, it just helps destigmatize that. And then we can be proactive about it and create spaces for people to check in before it gets to a crisis. where, you know, someone's really, really struggling from a mental health standpoint. ⁓ but there's more touch points for people to get get support. speaker-1: Okay, I have two last questions for you, and I want to start with what inspires you the most about your work with women's hockey players? speaker-0: There's, you know, little wins throughout every day or every session. And I kind of always describe it as like watching or like seeing some of my athletes do like really cool things or win a big game or, you know, accomplish a goal they set ⁓ is like the cool part. ⁓ but then hearing them talk about it, ⁓ and being able to like describe how it went or like what felt good about it to them is the inspiring part. ⁓ you know, really kind of seeing the like inner workings of that for them and watching them build some of that self-esteem or, you know, self-compassion or confidence or whatever that is, and kind of the way people describe some of their accomplishments tends to shift a little bit and just the way they feel about it. And I would like group that even into like if I have a an athlete ⁓ or a hockey player, right, where maybe the team didn't win, ⁓ but they're sitting there telling me about. all the things that went well or that they were really proud of. Like it's those moments of seeing seeing them being able to hold both of those, right? They're like, I can still be disappointed because of course I wanted to win. Of course I wanted our team to win. And I feel really good about the way that I played, the way I supported my teammates and like the teammate I was that day. Like all of that. Like that's the inspiring stuff. The wins are cool and like getting personal best is cool. But the other stuff is really ⁓ kind of the inspiring, like what drives me. Every day. speaker-1: Last one for you. If you could leave every young athlete listening or watching this, watching this with one key piece of advice, what do you think that would be? No pressure. speaker-0: think I mean it's such a classic one, but the the classic just like having fun and enjoying it. Right. Like I talk with, you know, a lot of, you know, collegiate athletes who are maybe like feeling frustrated or whatever of just that like at some point this was really fun. And this is what drove us to show up to the rink every day or what drove us to like set these really lofty goals. And so kind of reminding ourselves of that or even putting ourselves back in like our like younger self's shoes. ⁓ Of just like this would be like I would think I was really cool right now and I'd be so proud of myself. ⁓ but so kind of for the younger athletes of really finding out what that is, like what is your why? ⁓ and being able to kind of remind yourself of that on a regular basis when things get hard. ⁓ whether that's the social aspect or like, you know, I just I love the way you know, the like cold air feels like coming through my mask, whatever that is of like kind of finding that why and those things that are fun for you, ⁓ that you can really kind of go back to when things inevitably get hard or you're feeling tired or you have a lot of homework, you don't want to go to practice, ⁓ all of those, but that you can just kind of like pull out from your pocket and remind yourself of of why you do it and why you love hockey and ⁓ that kind of those things that drive you to get to the rink every day. speaker-1: Okay. And before we wrap, I of course have to ask how people can learn more about you and the work that you do. Where can they find out more? speaker-0: So you can there Achieve has an Instagram account, Achieve Performance Psych. I have an Instagram account. ⁓ speaking of multiples, I have my ⁓ psychologist account, ⁓ KMF Peterson, I think. I don't post a lot, admittedly. I do a lot of reposting. ⁓ but I repost some good stuff, just not a lot of original content. ⁓ and then Achieve Performance Psych dot com, you can find all of our stuff ⁓ on our our website and you can reach out to us there. speaker-1: And I'll have all of that information listed below as well. ⁓ that wraps up this episode of Ringside Rundown. Katie, thank you so much for taking the time to join the show, share your story, and share the impact that you're making in this space. I'm so incredibly thankful for your time, but also to just learn a little bit more about that impact is super inspiring. So thank you so much. speaker-0: Of course. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. speaker-1: And if you enjoyed this episode as much as we both did, be sure to like, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your fellow hockey fans. Your support helps me to keep bringing you stories just like this one from around the world to women's hockey. I'm Chris Sinclair. Thank you so much for tuning in, and I'll catch you next time on Ringside Rundown.