Latest / The Last Analog Marketers / Interview with Anne Hunter: B2B Marketing, the Buyer Journey, and the Human Element

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Interview with Anne Hunter: B2B Marketing, the Buyer Journey, and the Human Element · The Last Analog Marketers

• speaker-0: And now speaker-1: You're listening to speaker-0: two. speaker-1: the Last Analog Marketers Podcast. For marketers who lived through the transition to digital and the newcomers who inherited the results speaker-0: Using the pack speaker-1: as a lens to understand the navigate the future within. speaker-2: Attention. speaker-1: With your hosts, Aaron Peterson and Jamie. speaker-0: Jones. speaker-2: Erin, tell us what was your favorite childhood toy? speaker-0: That's the easiest question ever. Legos. I played with them endlessly as a child. I still play with them as an adult and I still collect sets. Of course they've made it easier because they now make many sets for adults, but I also still collect the sets that are intended for children. My house is a bit of a Lego museum, actually. what about you, Jamie? speaker-2: Ooh, I don't know That's a good question, probably Barbie's, but showing my age. I asked the question because sometimes our favorite childhood toy can have a huge implication on our future lives. I don't know if Barbie had a big implication on my future lives, but alas. That is true of our today's guest, though. welcome to the last analog marketers, the show where we look at where marketing has been so we can make sense of where it is going. I'm Jamie Jones. speaker-0: And I'm Aaron Peterson. Jamie, today's episode is a little bit different because our guest sits a pr at a pretty unique vantage point. She's not just a marketer talking about B2B marketing, she runs the part of Ipsos that actually goes and researches how B2B marketers and buyers behave. speaker-2: Gosh, I need to know everything right now. okay, and there's a report that just came out that we're gonna spend a good chunk of this episode on, the Ipsos 2026 B2B Buyer Journey report. It's fresh, it's got real numbers in it, and it says some pretty pointed things about AI, trust, and what's actually slowing deals down. speaker-0: Our guest today is Ann Hunter, Senior Vice President of B2B Products and Go to Market for Ipsos in North America. With a career-spanning roles at AOL, ComScore, Cantar, Disco, and now Ipsos, and as a member of the CMO Alliance and lecturer on AI and marketing at Columbia University, Anne has clearly been deeply involved and influential in the industry. speaker-2: And relevant to this show in particular, she's also got a personal connection to the analog era that I don't think either of us had heard about. And we're gonna get into that today. speaker-0: Yes, please welcome Anne Hunter. Anne, thanks so much for being here. speaker-1: Thank you both for having me. I'm looking forward to this one. It's not that often that I get to talk about a two hundred and eighty-eight person B2B marketing study and also my grandfather at the same time. speaker-0: He speaker-2: Yes, we contain multitudes on this show. We got all the things. So thank you for being here. speaker-0: Yeah, actually let's let's jump right actually into you know how you got into advertising. Can you please share a little bit about your background, specifically, you know, sort of where what got you into marketing and advertising in your early part of your life? speaker-1: Absolutely. I grew up at the knee of my grandfather who owned an ad agency. And when I was a kid, I used to go into his studio and he'd be working on campaigns back in the day. They were done very manually, no computers, and you know, was in awe of the colors and the fonts and the stories that he was building for brands. And I later realized that there were only B2B brands that he was working on. And so I thought this is this is amazing, I wanna do this. And one day, he's like, Come sit with me, come help me out on this campaign. And I was like, this is so cool. And he had me do some lettering. And then he turned to me and he said, You know, I think you would be better at media. Yeah. I realize I don't have the creative designer. I am not gonna be a visual designer. I can recognize the glory and talent of great visual designers, but that is not my skill. it is more in management and understanding the data and the numbers behind marketing. And so I kind of kept that in mind and while I didn't go to school for marketing, immediately upon coming out of school, I started working for Hearst, the magazine company in the new media marketing department, working in the data and marketing area. So it was a bit preordained and I have been doing that for the past thirty years. speaker-2: That's amazing. I don't think if you're a marketer without having a favorite font though, so maybe that'll be a question we ask on a future episode, Erin. what's your favorite font? And we'll judge people on that. I think it's pretty obvious, An, by your resume, not past but current, that you are incredibly engaged in this industry. But tell us a little bit about what, brings you to work every day and keeps you excited. speaker-1: It's the change. it is the constant change is the most exciting thing about working in marketing today. What you did last year, the tools you used last year are out of date, and there's new things today that you can do you couldn't do yesterday. And it's hard to see another industry that has evolved so quickly that allows you to try new things, experiment every day. If you have An interest in learning, marketing is a great career because you can experiment every single day. What's especially interesting about marketing today is the intersection of that human creativity and data and technology. That is impacting many industries, but marketing is probably at the tip of the spear for human and technological collaboration, the very exciting place to be. And it was just as exciting on day one in the nineteen nineties when I start working in the internet marketing space. speaker-2: We won't list what day it is today, but we we know it's many more than one. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting that you say that too. And just the whole story, you know, I I want to go back to, you know, your analog roots a little bit with your grandfather and and talk a little bit more about y how that experience sort of influenced you. I think it's interesting hearing the the s the anecdote that, you know, he t told you to focus on media because you know, s some people might have Taken something like that as like a negative and focus too much on, well, he said, I'm not creative, right? And maybe just like let that be the driving message that came out of that. But really, kind of what ended up happening for you was wonderfully the opposite, which was in a way, he almost did you a favor of helping you quickly understand where to head with your adult life. Like many kids, teenagers, even adults today would love to have that sort of guidance. you know, can you talk a little bit of just even just a few more minutes about some of the experiences you had at his agencies or some of the things that you did there that just you know you really remember that were influential? speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I I want to touch on something that you said about it being a gift to get that feedback early. I do not have the design skills, but I understand the client and the objective and the data really, really well. And I could have wasted a lot of time being a mediocre designer and that would not have gotten me the career that I have today. Yeah. So honesty is a gift. And I'm a big fan of Strength Space leadership. Companies are successful when they bring together teams of people with different strengths, and trying to be the best at everything means you're going to be mediocre at most things. It's much better when we have teams that are T-shaped, where people are really strong in a certain discipline. For me, that's data, that's management. But I love working with people that are phenomenal in organizational process. management who are phenomenal in marketing in design. Building that team is really what makes in a marketing department successful and getting the feedback about where your strength is versus looking at it as a weakness that you have to compensate. is the most gentle and and truthful thing that you can do for somebody, encouraging their strengths. As a leader, that is really important. And I and I took that lesson not just, hey, go into data that you're really good at that. I took that lesson as it's also really good to tell people you care about what they're good at and direct them to things where they're gonna be successful without making them feel bad that they're not gonna be successful at everything because nobody is. so I I I took it as both a a directive personally, but also a really good leadership lesson to learn at an ad agency at a very young age. speaker-0: Yeah, love that you mentioned the T-shaped thing too, because Jamie and I talked about that on another episode. We were just saying how T-shaped people are just it's the best when you can work with someone else who's that way, who has, you know, a couple of just really deep areas of expertise, but just enough knowledge and enough respect for the other elements that they don't own or control to to interact with them in a way that, you know, elevates everyone. And I think it's a really, really important thing. When you can also only do that but then recognize that talent in those people. speaker-2: Yeah. And I think I was also recognizing as you were speaking and that Probably outside of marketing, there's not even an understanding of the nuances of all of the things that you were just checking off, right? All the different types of marketers that there are. And as people who are in this discipline, we recognize where people's strengths are. You have to be a jack of all trades, but also be able to go deep in certain areas. And if you leave marketing, people don't even realize that all that stuff happens. So it's very nuanced. and we are skilled in ways that people don't even understand. So appreciate you bringing light to that. Erin, Erin and I wanna we at in our prep for this call, we chatted a little bit about bringing back memories and your grandfather. And so I I definitely want to make sure we cover that anedoke and that story because it was so special for us in our prep. So we're talking a little bit about an event we produced a number of years ago. But the history of your grandfather and the specialness of that relationship came up. So you wanna just tell everyone that story? Cause we really loved it. speaker-1: Yeah, I I thank you so much for that story because that was one of the most memorable things that's happened at a business event for me in my career. We were at the event and early in the day, someone came around as we were all sitting at the event and asked us to write down our favorite childhood toy. And the topic was about creativity. So we all just thought it was an opportunity to think about what inspired us as young people to be creative. Didn't think anything of it. Later on that night at dinner, you came out and said we have an announcement. And to everyone's surprise, you had procured everyone's favorite toy and put them on a table at the back of the room. The personalization in that, the unexpected delight, made that dinner so much more memorable than every other business dinner that you go to. And when I went up to the table to see what was there, I don't know how you did this. I I I it was really magical. I had drawn a little picture on my list of what my favorite toy was, and it was the round marker holder in my grandfather's office that had his very high quality advertising markers that he uses to do his designs with. And getting to play with that was a real treat when I was a kid. You had to be very careful with those markers. That was my favorite toy. And you found a circular tiered marker holder from Crayola that looked so similar. And I I I just couldn't believe you did that. But was so impressed with the personalization that you brought into it. And you gave us the opportunity to keep those gifts or the opportunity to donate them to a local charity for children. And it was so awesome to get to donate something that had meant so much to me to someone else and pass that along. So I thank you for that opportunity. that was some really good marketing. And you know, wish that we did more of that as an industry, where we really pulled people in on a human basis and made that part of our brand, specifically in B2B. We so often think about features and here you showed that the feature is I'm I'm listening to you, I'm paying attention to you, I care about creativity, I care about the community. And that came through really loud and clear without it having to have been written on a webpage. speaker-0: Mm. Well, those are I love of course we love that story, right? Jamie was not lying when we say we love that story. And and it was we thank you for telling it and for, having that, reaction to it because that was it was our intended reaction, right? we wanted to to resonate with our attendees at the time and make them really connect back with that original message from that event, which was a great message, right? The whole idea was think like you did when you were a child because you thought so creatively and we say all of the time in meetings, think outside the box, but actually everything that we everything that we create in terms of systems and processes and education is all actually boxed in thinking. and so it's like kind of counterintuitive. And so the way to break ourselves out of that was to step back and think like we did when we were kids and we were Anything could be anything, a cardboard box could be a toy for the day. and so yeah, no, it was a really special moment. and it was really great to get to see everyone's reactions and also then of course to see all the donations that that made their way over to the children's hospital, which was wonderful. now let's skip forward a little bit to the present. you're the SVP of B2B Products and Go to Market for North America for Ipsos. Can you talk a little bit about your role and what you do then? we mentioned that you're looking at the pulse of the B2B buyer. So can you kind of just talk a little bit more about your role and and and what you guys do at Ipsos and your team? speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. so Ipsos is well known for market research around the world, for policy, for brand, for creative across many areas. People don't recognize that B2B is a huge part of what Ipsos does. In addition to supporting the big consumer brands, Ipsos also supports the big business brands with insights. For their marketing teams, their product teams, their policy teams, their insights teams. So my role is to ensure that we are bringing solutions to those clients that help drive their business growth. And those are usually data-driven solutions, marketing research, insights, qualitative interviews, a lot of AI these days, all of that, but focused on a business lens where business Marketers and product teams, policy teams have somewhat different needs, but they still need to understand their clients. speaker-2: Yeah, as a B2B marketer, I'm so thankful for the research and the background that teams like Ipsos are putting together because it's really difficult to figure out B2B marketing right now. And your role sounds both interesting and very intimidating, but thank you for the work that you're doing as a B2B marketer. we were talking in the beginning of the episode about how you Ipsos recently released the 2026. B2B buyer journey report. Tell me some of the highlights. As a B2B marketer, what do I need to take away from this report that's going to help me do my job better every day? speaker-1: Yeah, I think the the biggest highlight is how people are using AI and why humans still are the ultimate decider in the B2B journey. What we saw this year, and we did this report again last year, is that 70% of B2B decision makers are saying they're using AI in the buying process. Most of the time they're using it to find suppliers. But they're also using it to call suppliers. So we saw that these decision makers said, We know that there's so much changing for B2B companies right now. We know that AI is actually making so many more products. It's making products we already have have new features. We know there's a lot of change. We know there's a lot of new entrants. We know that there's existing entrants that we think of one way and actually have all sorts of new innovative solutions we may not know about. So we're a bit overwhelmed. B2B buyers were very clearly telling us they are overwhelmed. So they're using AI really as a tool to help them reduce the complexity of meeting their needs with whatever supplies that they're looking to buy. That overwhelm was was so pervasive in the report that we think about AI and you know its ability to make a lot of new marketing. I think I would take that as a caution as a B2B marketer to say more marketing is not necessarily better marketing. What we saw from the report is that people want marketing that actually gives them clarity and confidence. So marketing that is driven by proof points, marketing that is simple, marketing that you can easily pass along to your CEO and CFO and get budget approval from for new solutions, new tools. That's the kind of marketing that's working. It's not just volume, and it's not just, you know, make a variant for every single type of customer. It's clarity and brand that really are making people stand out. However, that's still a lot. And so there's a large number of them are using AI and they're actually trusting AI. So 40% of respondents, these are business decision makers, said. We trust AI more than we trust our vendors' own documents. That was shocking. And I think we saw that because vendors are putting out so many documents, the messages are conflicting, they're getting, you know, some hype, they're getting things that are not proven, and they're using AI to call that overwhelm and help them really determine what is true. So the necessity for marketers is to make sure that AI is going to provide that information back to the buyer. about your real differentiated benefit. Does AI know about your case studies? Have you put your case studies online so it can know about them? Does AI know about your proof points? make sure that that those are available because those are the things that are helping AI help your customers choose you. Once they get through the once they get through the selection of vendors that they want to work with Then AI drops off in the process and humans become central to making a decision. speaker-0: That makes sense. At least. Yeah. speaker-1: We saw half of senior execs said they actually wanted to talk to a sales rep before they made a decision on buying from that vendor. Those human moments, the dinners, the events, you know, meeting each other in person give people confidence that the decision they're making to choose a vendor has less risk because they know who they're gonna call if something goes wrong. It's not a either-or situation for B2B marketers. They need to make sure that their messaging is crisp, that their proof points are clear, so that both humans and AI are able to choose them with confidence. And then they need to go out and build those relationships. speaker-0: Yeah, listening to you say that, the the overarching things I'm hearing are consistency and completeness in your brand and marketing efforts and building trust, right? So it sounds like trust is really what it comes down to in the end, you know. speaker-1: Absolutely. Trust is huge. We did another study, the B2B marketing benchmark with LinkedIn, and this this data is just insane. 94% of B2B marketers say deep verifiable trust is the number one key to long-term business growth. speaker-0: that number sounds high, but at the same time I also I I would hope it would be that high in a way, right? Like I hope that that's how humans are making decisions as well, like based off of trust and and insights and data. And that data is not like to your point, that data is a combination of the data that's put out there, which is what they're using the AI to to sort through, right? There's so much data, so much content information, they're using that to help them get clarity in that portion of it. But then it's the other element of building the relationship with the person that you can trust. that to your point, if something goes wrong and I need to make a phone call to someone, is there a person on that other line that I know will answer the phone and will help help me deal with my problem? So yeah, it's really great to see that that that that's the result. speaker-2: Yeah, I was on a vendor pitch just the other day, and we were gonna go at them. I'm pretty sure it was all gonna go through, but I'm sitting there on Claude, what should I question? What should I like and the whole time trying to just make sure that I'm, validating the things that they're saying. So it's interesting, you're right. They sent all kinds of documentation, but you skim it and then you ask, AI to help you make sure that you're challenging them in the right and correct ways. the report is about B2B. Both the reports that you talked about are about B2B, but you know, there is this entire other world of B2C. And, you know, I'd love to hear what you think is the main difference in their marketing approaches between B2B and B2C. speaker-1: So we think about B2C and media dollars are such a big part of that. So much of B2C is company to large, unnamed group of people. Now there's obviously data where people are signing up for loyalty programs and things like that, but generally media is an enormous part of that business. In B2B, the sales and marketing relationship. changes that because there are one-on-one relationships in most B2B scenarios. But I will say there's something in B2B that is increasingly looking a lot more like B2C, and that is creator marketing. B2C and running creator-led campaigns and social media for makeup and cooking tools and all sorts of things. know we've all seen them on our feeds. What we're seeing now is an increased use of creator marketing in B2B. So actually we're seeing B2B follow B2C a little bit. We just put out another report with LinkedIn called the credibility code and it was really focused on creators in B2B and how that's working and what and what's working well. And that data showed creators in B2B are very similar in terms of their impact to creators in B2C. Creator-led ads had one and a half times the brand impact as ads from a company that didn't have a creator. So from a creative perspective, B2B and B2C are very similar. People want to engage with people they find interesting. From a sales mechanic And a media standpoint, they're quite different. speaker-0: That's so interesting. I think that when you think about B2B marketing, and this goes back to what you were saying in the report around trust. A lot of people think about B2B marketing and they they think about company to company and they, forget that there's those two humans that are ultimately on the other side of that. and that it does mean that in that B2B world, there's a lot more going on in the background to get those companies to shift those huge amounts of dollars, right? Because a lot of the B2B relationships we're talking about a very different volume of dollar expenditure in those relationships than we're talking about in most B2B relationships and sales. And so that's why there's more complexity, there's more more, you know depth to what happens in those teams. It also really underlies that importance between that relationship between marketing and sales, which we're continuing to see sort of blur, especially in that B2B space. so let's talk about where where where marketing is at right now then. marketing's position and role you know has continued to evolve. Some organizations still have CMOs while others have marketing reporting to sales or like a combined chief revenue officer. What are your thoughts on where marketing fits within the C-suite in general, but especially when it comes to these B2B organizations? speaker-1: Yeah, we are seeing a move more toward a chief revenue officer or chief growth officer. And that role isn't just bring in sales, bring in marketing. There's also often a technology or operational component to it as well. So that not only do you have people who are sort of frontline working with individual clients being the sales team and marketers will building the brand and bringing people in. But you have a technology layer that allows those two to take the right next step at the right time. So th those interactions are tracked, new people in the buying center that maybe sales hasn't been able to connect with are provided to marketing so they can try to reach out to them to get on their radar so that sales can meet with that person in the buying center. Those type of technology pieces are becoming really intertwined. between sales, marketing, and so growth, which is ultimately what every company wants, is becoming more common than it's ever been as a centralized role. speaker-2: Yeah, I completely agree with that. And I've definitely seen that shift over the last few years. And something that's also been shifting is sort of where BDRs, SDRs sit, right? As marketing creates interest, creates leads, creates MQLs, you know, they need to put them somewhere. And there's always been this tension between sales and marketing about Are they good leads? what do we do in the follow-up? And so we're starting to see this shift of that first line of outreach actually living within the marketing organization, shifting BDRs and SDRs under marketing and not moving it over to sales until we're a little bit further along in qualification. So I really like that shift. I think it makes sense. but I'd love to hear, you know, how you feel like sales and marketing and the intersection, you know, is changing and shifting and working. working well or challenged today? speaker-1: This is really organization dependent. It depends on your sales cycle, the number of people involved in the buying decision, whether you are selling repeatedly into a large organization with many different departments, or whether you are selling a lower price monthly subscription to individuals or small companies. How you set up your BDR teams, how you determine where marketing hands off, where sales picks up. or where they're combined is so dependent on the product you sell into the market that you sell it. Too often we're you know reading articles that are trying to tell us that this is the next new wave of how you should do things in marketing. This area in particular, I think, is one that has too much guidance and not enough self-reflection. You need to really understand your customers and how they buy to determine how to then engage with them in a way that is going to give them that best experience. Sometimes that's a cold call from somebody because that might suit your particular product. Other times that is letting somebody who has an established relationship have more materials so that they can go out and continue that relationship into new areas of the business. It's really dependent on the company. But it has to start with how does my customer want to buy? And then how do I structure an organization that ensures that they get what they want? speaker-0: Yeah, it really goes back to setting up those original ICPs and then determining exactly how you interact with those ICPs, both in terms of messaging, tactic, approach, et cetera, and recognizing that smart marketers don't apply the same approach, tactics, and messaging to each of their ICPs. Like it all does need to sit and ladder up to an underarching message like we talked about, because AI especially is now going to read those things. But at the same time, you know, if you're selling produ a product, let's say you've got some sort of research SaaS product and you're selling it to B2B companies, B2C companies, and higher education, right? You cannot speak to those three audiences the same way about the offer that you have and and how you give it. So I think it does make a lot of sense that it it really just does come back to just understanding the people who are on the other side of what you're trying to sell. speaker-1: It's a really great place to be in It's a really great place to be in B2B market research because you need to know your customer. You need to know the message that resonates, right? Test that. And you need to know how they buy. What are the decision states? How many people are involved in the decision in the buying committee? Is procurement involved? Do they want to test? Do how much do demos matter? Understand that buying journey is just as important as understanding your message. So if you're not out researching that and you don't know that, you're not going to set up your company right to be able to deliver it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: Literally just gonna have clips of Ann's mic drops from this entire episode as my 2027 marketing plan because she's literally speaking my language and all of the things I keep iterating on. So obviously we've been schooled in a similar philosophy over the years, coming from you know, some intertwining backgrounds, but then you've had a lot of mic drop quotes. So I hope Erin clips all those up for us. speaker-0: So I definitely will be clipping those. speaker-2: Okay, well, this was super fun. I think it's time to wrap up in the looking at the time. So it is conference season. I don't know, Ann, if you're going to conferences, but I know for me and my team it is definitely a big part of what's happening right now. And it got me thinking about where do conferences stand in marketing, right? Like, is it important to be there? The crowded atmosphere is tough, you know, booths are tough, swag is tough. But you really indicated earlier that face-to-face is still really important. So Aaron and Anne, I'd love to hear what you think about conferences in 2026. speaker-1: Yeah, the data is very clear. Conferences, in-person events, dinners are going to continue to grow in importance over the course of the next year. Let me give you a little tip for maximizing the value of attending the conference while also keeping it going and getting everyone else on your team who couldn't go involved. When you're at the conference, look at those speakers who are not the headliners that you see all the time at all the conferences. Look for those people that might be the first time that they're speaking in this area or are from smaller companies. Get a great picture of them speaking and make sure it's great. Don't like, you know, show their chin or something that they don't want to see. Give them a great picture. Get them on stage. They may not actually even have that picture from anyone else. And then post that. And tag them and quote what you liked about that presentation. What I have found is people really appreciate it. They know that they're heard, they know that they're mentioned. A lot of times they say, Thank you for this photo, I've never had one like this. It shows me on stage. And then get your team to engage. Find out more about that company. That ability to pay it forward builds relationships in person, online. And everywhere you wanna do business as a representative of your company, as as a human who spends time at work and wants to work with cool people. speaker-0: Agree. I love that. That is the coolest idea. No, I love that. I think that's fantastic. And actually it just reminds me that I forgot about that. I had done something similar for you. I think a year or two ago when I saw you at Ad Week and I I of course made sure to come watch your your session and I didn't notice anybody from your team there taking a picture. So I grabbed one of you on stage and sent it to you later and was like, hey, just so you have this in case you want a picture of your presentation today. And so you're right. I mean, think those those friendships and those relationships are important. And you start with that little thing there. I think my advice to people going to conferences and something I've seen is that that I would say just to stay away from is I would avoid just posting that you're attending a conference. I think that that i I mean, yes, okay, you're gonna be there, but it's not really to what we're speaking about, it's not really an engaging post. If you're going to post about attending, I'd at least recommend that you put it with a call to action message that's like, I'm looking for people to connect with and talk about the future of AI. Do you want to meet up or do you want to grab a coffee? It's things like that, I think, are a w much better way to approach posting about attending an event than just saying that you're going to be there in attendance because again, it feels set it flat. You're not really engaging anybody else in in trying to get them to come interact with you. then you should also be doing the outreach yourself, right? You should be looking and maybe looking up that event and looking up people who are posting about that event as well and attending and looking for connections. And then reach out to them and say, Hey, I saw that you posted. I also posted, let's grab a coffee or, let's go watch this panel together that's about, programmatic because we're both in the programmatic world or whatever it may be. And I think that's a good way to, you approach the events when you are attending them in person. speaker-2: Yeah, I love that. You're me. Yeah, you're right on. I think for me, it's all about having your personality, right? Like I think when you bring the conference to the online space and recap what you saw or what you did or who you connected with, just make it authentic, right? Who am I? And I think it kind of goes back to what Ann was talking about with The creators, right? Even even in my own just little personal brand, I like to have a personality and be really authentic and be bold. And I think when we see those come through our feed about a conference or about someone's experience, you pause for a half second. And that's all we're looking for today is a half second pause. So I think whether you're experiencing it in person and you're there and talking to people, you're making people pause, or you're recapping it online, just getting a little bit more attention. From them, you know, is the ideal scenario. I did tell Aaron offline, and I'll just leave us with this funny thing that my spouse is a vendor's worst nightmare because he loves free swag and he will put his name on every single booth to bring home the crap that I don't want, but my kids love. And so these poor marketers have to follow up with him, thinking he might be interested in whatever they're selling, and he just wanted their free swag. So Calling him out that if you see my spouse at a at a conference, he is not interested in your product, he just wants your swag. speaker-0: I did laugh at that too. And I said to Jamie in our conversation about that that I I mean, it killed me, right? Like just dead that she's in a role and then she's now partnered with somebody who does that. But also I I also have to have a little bit of respect for him too. Like for as a marketer, frustrating. But, you know, as a human, I'm like, Yeah, I get it. So anyway, well that's it for this episode of The Last Analog Marketers, and we want to thank you so much for your time, your amazing stories and insights, and of course your friendship all these years. speaker-1: Thank you so much. I'm loved being here. speaker-2: And make sure you check out the Ipsos B2B Buyer Journey Report on the Insights Hub at Ipsos.com. We'll also link it in the show notes and on LinkedIn and all the other platforms. thank you again, Anne. It was so great to see you. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. And last but not least, subscribe, follow, send it to a friend, whatever you can do to help us get this message out there. We love talking about marketing. So we hope to keep doing it, and we will talk to you all the next time. speaker-0: Thanks everyone. Bye. speaker-1: Thanks for tuning in to the Last Analog Marketers podcast. share, and subscribe to keep in tune and show your support.