Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 228:26-31. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Permitting Public Vows

Transcript

Yoreh De’ah 228:26-31. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Permitting Public Vows · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:01
  Okay, continuing helkos nadarim rash kaf khat seif kaf vav a
• 0:08
  nidre seibor and nitrium ella mikan ulhava abaloa mashavar.
• 0:14
  So when did Sibor makes a Nader makes a harem?
• 0:19
  Then they when they want to undo it, they do it going forward.
• 0:24
  Not le Mafreya, not me, Ikaro. They're doing their hafara from
• 0:29
  right now. They're severing it right now,
• 0:31
  similar to Afaras Habaal on an Isha.
• 0:35
  He does it starting right now when he does it and that's
• 0:39
  that's when it ends and it doesn't go Le Mafreya.
• 0:45
  According to that's a Levona Bashame Masius Benjamin that
• 0:49
  you, if that sibor wanted to do ataras nadarim with the kaham
• 0:54
  and abezdin, they could do it la Mafreya.
• 0:56
  But that's not what's necessary. They don't have to have kharata.
• 1:00
  They don't have to go back with Mafreya.
• 1:02
  They they can just do hafara without kharata.
• 1:05
  And then if there's no kharata and there's no hatara, which is
• 1:08
  usually not what's done, it's hafara, then it's only from now
• 1:12
  going forward a different, different mode of operation.
• 1:16
  OK, the shock points out that makes enough Kamina normally if
• 1:23
  you are doing Hafara, I'm sorry, if you're doing Hataras
• 1:26
  Nadarium, you have to have Karata and you're going back on
• 1:29
  my Freya. So then if you're we're going to
• 1:32
  see this later on, if you undo part part of the Ned there, then
• 1:36
  the whole thing goes up because it's goes away because you're
• 1:38
  doing the whole thing, the Ikaro, the whole Neder you
• 1:41
  having a Karata on here that seaboard.
• 1:45
  They can just stop at any partially part of it can stay in
• 1:49
  place and part of it, the end, they can end it.
• 1:51
  You know, whatever portion of the harem or whatever they want,
• 1:54
  they're they're working with. OK, we'll see that again later.
• 1:57
  Kavzai. I feel a lo batla siba shiba
• 2:01
  shivila tikkuno vekrimu imratsu lahatir matirim now.
• 2:07
  It could be they had a good reason or whatever the reason
• 2:09
  was for making the harem and the reasoning didn't end.
• 2:12
  It's still a problem. It's still bothering them, but
• 2:15
  doesn't. Regardless if they want to be
• 2:17
  Matthew, they could. That's up to them.
• 2:19
  That's their prerogative. But I feel a bit talk has man
• 2:21
  chikavu human shaka Takana, even if it's during the allotted time
• 2:27
  of the Takana. They made it Takana for a year
• 2:29
  and now it's after a week or a month and it's not working so
• 2:32
  well. So they can just stop it right
• 2:34
  now. But I feel lo BA Zeman haneder
• 2:38
  veloh haneder yukoli Mahathir, right?
• 2:41
  Even if it's not even applicable, like they made a
• 2:45
  harem or a Takana for that's going to start in a month from
• 2:48
  now. And now they realize, oh boy, we
• 2:51
  didn't foresee something happening.
• 2:53
  It's going to be an issue. They can undo it now before it's
• 2:56
  even unlike what we learned by Hiljos Taras Nadaram.
• 3:01
  And normally if a person makes a neder aishwa, they have to only
• 3:04
  they have to wait until it's applicable and for it to write.
• 3:08
  That was a mojocus, but that's what we generally said.
• 3:14
  You can also just do partial. You can be my part of it and
• 3:20
  keep part of it in place. That's up to them, right?
• 3:25
  Because whenever the seaboard they're based in the Cajal made
• 3:28
  this harem or nidui, they did it on, it's on their they have the
• 3:37
  right to decide what their harem is and what the boundaries are,
• 3:41
  what are the rules of engagement that they create.
• 3:43
  And it's all built in as if they made it tonight, that they can
• 3:46
  do whatever they want. They can stop it when they want
• 3:49
  to start it, when they want to keep part of it, not keep part
• 3:52
  of it. Let's go to the next one.
• 3:55
  Kafkhet Imaita Skama gader la Robin osiyag la Tara ula davar
• 4:01
  mitzvah. If the type of khairam neither
• 4:05
  that the that the seaboard created.
• 4:07
  It was in order to make a fence to guard that seaboard, to
• 4:12
  protect them from the to not be over the Torah or to protect
• 4:18
  them for to, to protect them from being over a mitzvah Enam
• 4:24
  yeholim lahatya. So they, they cannot undo it.
• 4:29
  The Hain, at least they're not allowed to undo it.
• 4:33
  The Hain, the nether shall smoke.
• 4:36
  So too, if a person makes a nether on gambling or something
• 4:40
  like that, where there's an esser involved, and then even
• 4:44
  though it could be haul, another can be haul on such a such a
• 4:47
  thing, they, they are not supposed to, they are not
• 4:51
  allowed to undo it. Now Bikiva Ager points out, But
• 4:56
  if it's to do a mitzvah, you could do a Hatara.
• 4:59
  You can't that you can't do a hatara when it's done from the
• 5:03
  Seabor. If it's to protect, protect them
• 5:06
  from doing an Avera, then it's it's in place.
• 5:09
  But if they were just they they made a theorem in order to to
• 5:14
  perform a mitzvah, to do a new mitzvah and institute a new
• 5:18
  mitzvah in town that they could do Hatara Stadaran, or they can
• 5:23
  just start or they could just be Maefer.
• 5:25
  They can just stop there. The theorem or whatever they
• 5:28
  made also Nazi Levona, he points out there they can't do Maefer,
• 5:35
  but if they need to or they want to, they could do Apeta and
• 5:39
  kharata that they're also able to do Kaf Tet.
• 5:44
  The shock also points out that if you make a theorem on someone
• 5:48
  who in the future, you say whoever violates doing a certain
• 5:52
  item is going to be put in nidui.
• 5:55
  So if a person violates it and if it was to protect them from
• 6:00
  doing an Avera and they violated it, you still you can.
• 6:03
  We said you can really look at you're never supposed to the
• 6:06
  Basin's never supposed to undo that theorem.
• 6:09
  However they can release the person from Nidui you you leave
• 6:15
  the the extra Ned there are heram that you put in place to
• 6:19
  protect them for the you know to protect the seabour.
• 6:22
  But each individual going forward, you are allowed to
• 6:26
  release each one from Heram just OK, so it's a subtle point, but
• 6:32
  the there herium in general stays in place.
• 6:36
  But for each individual 1 by 1, you could undo it.
• 6:39
  Kaftat yeh shimisha Omer Shim kahal ekhlad asua scama baharim
• 6:45
  the migdurmilta. OK, so the kahal as a whole gets
• 6:50
  together and they want to do a herim in order to protect
• 6:53
  themselves from a various vahalhuk Satan Irah Harris
• 6:57
  lador. So you had an entire city
• 6:59
  together, the village a city. They make a herim together, they
• 7:03
  agree on it. OK, so it's binding, but let's
• 7:08
  say some of them want to move away to a new city.
• 7:11
  That's the Ain datum Luxor and they're not returning.
• 7:15
  If they're returning, then there's then they have to keep
• 7:18
  whatever they were Macabo, right.
• 7:20
  Just because you go on vacation for a couple weeks, does it mean
• 7:24
  you go on vacation from your individual humra?
• 7:27
  So we had that in Aura Hyam as well.
• 7:29
  And when you go on vacation, you still have to keep your humra.
• 7:33
  You still have to keep your your harems that you have and place
• 7:36
  that apply to you. However, if you're moving away
• 7:40
  permanently, IM hapir tsaihi mitsuya shyam together.
• 7:48
  If the problem that you had in the first city that you needed
• 7:51
  to make this harem still exists in the next city, so then you
• 7:56
  have to keep it. But if the Imaru Harehim of
• 8:02
  Variani Variani and if they were over in the new place, then they
• 8:08
  were over on their Heron because their Heron takes continues
• 8:13
  where they go either either if it's on vacation or if the
• 8:18
  problem exists in the new place as well.
• 8:22
  However, if it's in the new city, you don't have the same
• 8:25
  problem that you had, at least not to the same degree as in the
• 8:29
  first place. And in this new place there is
• 8:31
  no such heram or decree, so you're allowed to become like
• 8:35
  one of them, and you no longer have to keep that humra of the
• 8:38
  heram that you originally were. Makago haga me Shi yatsami
• 8:43
  Malcolm should know. If you live in one city, one for
• 8:48
  one country where they have the heramer be nagershom shaloli
• 8:51
  sashte Nashim, where you're not allowed to marry 2 wives and
• 8:55
  then you move the Macomb Shamekhilian and you move to a
• 8:58
  new place asur lol lisas de nashim he says it's us or in the
• 9:03
  second place also because for whatever whatever the reasoning
• 9:07
  of of the Gershon applies similarly from one city to
• 9:13
  another. OK, Vamad seaboard Sheikh Al
• 9:17
  Inya and Echad no, the entire the entire seaboard agrees for
• 9:22
  what? For the same purpose, for the
• 9:24
  same the same nether this benishba or shuwa call ish mahem
• 9:32
  Allah and each So there's one purpose and they're all doing
• 9:35
  it. But it wasn't where the Rav of
• 9:38
  the OR a group of people get up together and everybody answers
• 9:43
  amain and everyone accepts it. It's the case over here right
• 9:46
  now is called Ish Maham Allah. Each each person makes his own
• 9:53
  Shivua, right? It's it might make a big
• 9:56
  difference. So let's keep reading via Kharka
• 9:59
  Ratsu Lahatia. So everybody it was for a
• 10:04
  unified it was a unified Shivua and they all have the same
• 10:08
  purpose or right motive, a mission, but they all made their
• 10:15
  own Shiva. So in the ham Takana.
• 10:19
  So there's no way out. Everyone is stuck keeping to
• 10:22
  this nether right. So it's like it's like Kibu al
• 10:26
  Das. Let's see word Robin das Robin.
• 10:31
  I actually eat Kartu Kulam until all of them have Karata and want
• 10:37
  to get out of it. The IMSU PETA Li shivatam kishar
• 10:42
  Shivat Alma and you find a pet talk like we learnt, you find
• 10:46
  kharata, you find a pet talk like we always do the same
• 10:49
  situation, but each one needs to have this kharata and a pet
• 10:53
  talk. We had tiru and Shlosha and
• 10:55
  Nashim shena venehahir. So since the whole we're talking
• 10:59
  about a case when the whole city did this, they all made this
• 11:03
  Shiva, they all accepted upon themselves.
• 11:06
  So now it's binding for everyone.
• 11:07
  So you got to go to someone who's not in the same, the same
• 11:12
  lots of right. Someone who's trapped in prison
• 11:16
  is hard. It's easier to take someone out
• 11:19
  than if you're trapped yourself inside.
• 11:22
  So do you have three people from outside the city, the to to do
• 11:28
  the Hatara, the EM Petram Vaharatatatam Shabba.
• 11:33
  They all have the same Karata and the same PETA.
• 11:36
  So it's simple. Three people just does it for
• 11:39
  everybody. The yahooly Mahmatir Mahati
• 11:41
  Lakulam Yahat. So you just need so we all have
• 11:45
  the same Karata and PETA. So you just need to some of the
• 11:49
  people need to go in front of three Anashim from outside the
• 11:53
  city and they will do Hatara Sandharam for the entire city
• 11:58
  because they're like 1 unit, right?
• 11:59
  They all accepted it together individually, but it was it was
• 12:05
  it was done. It was all done for the same
• 12:10
  purpose. They all wanted to do it
• 12:13
  together, but they all said it separately.
• 12:17
  So therefore they're like 1 unit.
• 12:19
  There's an OK, there's an Arrevas here and therefore the
• 12:23
  three of them can do it. The this based in could be
• 12:25
  Matiya, all of them, even though they're not all there.
• 12:28
  You're holding Latiya Latiya Lakulam yahad be in love.
• 12:32
  But if they don't all have the same motive, so then material
• 12:38
  Nicole echad kefi. So then you could do Ataras
• 12:45
  Nadarian, each one Kefi, everybody still has to want to
• 12:54
  do Atara. Everyone has to come to Atara
• 12:57
  Sundarian. But you can each one you have to
• 13:01
  each basin does each person separately because they have a
• 13:04
  different karata and a different bata.
• 13:12
  Yeah, to the best of my knowledge, that's correct.
• 13:15
  They don't allow it to be present, OK, because it's one
• 13:19
  unit and part of that one unit is present.
• 13:25
  Now we learned earlier in Rashkaf where the Rama says if
• 13:30
  you have 4 individuals, Arbash and Ishbu, Yakovasa davar ekhad,
• 13:36
  Mikre Aldas, Robin, Valdatan, Nishva.
• 13:43
  So the the Rama we had towards the end or the middle, somewhere
• 13:49
  towards the middle or the end, he writes 2/3 down that four
• 13:53
  people together already when they have one purpose and they
• 13:57
  all do it together, but each one is saying it himself.
• 14:00
  So then it has the the power of Aldas Robin.
• 14:04
  And then you're going to have to get the other ones to agree.
• 14:07
  I guess they're going to get their permission.
• 14:11
  OK, So if each one says it, it's equivalent to saying Aldas Rabin
• 14:20
  just saying it to. But if they all say it together
• 14:25
  or they all say Amin, how do you say it?
• 14:31
  But it wasn't each person. If if you have all of them
• 14:36
  together and answering Amin that they're all accepting it upon
• 14:39
  themselves, then it doesn't have that same the same Homer of Das
• 14:44
  Rabin. It's not as strong.
• 14:46
  Now let's keep reading the Yesh Misha Omer, the Khaygavna Mikre
• 14:51
  initial Das Rabin Miru Yesh Khalkim and the Rama writes.
• 14:57
  There are some who disagree with severely label.
• 15:01
  Until now we said you're going to need everybody.
• 15:05
  Unless everybody agrees there's no way to undo a Shiva once they
• 15:10
  all make a shivua, there's no way to one.
• 15:12
  Once each person made the shivua, there's even with 1
• 15:16
  mission together. So then all of them.
• 15:19
  Unless they all do kharata, then there's no way out a meal.
• 15:24
  Yesh Khalfiyum is severely with the call echoed Mahemiahfoli
• 15:27
  Kharat Felicia al nidro Alpha Picia in Khaveera.
• 15:31
  But there is another different opinion.
• 15:34
  Now it happens to be a big tumult in the in the post
• 15:37
  scheme. Exactly how to understand the
• 15:40
  the Rama If they agree or disagree Shahasarahrion.
• 15:48
  See there are but let's try and say over the Kitzer that the
• 15:53
  Rama does quote a second opinion.
• 15:55
  Exactly what is what is he referring to is is a question,
• 16:00
  but he seems to say as long that we the Chauhanara holds, if
• 16:06
  everyone agrees to it, then everyone has to have Karata or
• 16:09
  there's no way out according to the Rama.
• 16:12
  Perhaps he writes that there is an opinion that says no, that
• 16:18
  there is no such hard fast rule, that if anyone who wants to undo
• 16:23
  it can undo it. And it depends how you
• 16:27
  understand this yeish holkim. It could be yeish holkim was
• 16:31
  referring to a case where you said it in front of the rabbim,
• 16:36
  or it's all das rabbim but you basically set it together with a
• 16:40
  big amain. Or you just you said it in
• 16:42
  unison. But it wasn't, It doesn't, it
• 16:46
  wasn't with the same power of each person saying it by
• 16:50
  himself. But if each person said it by
• 16:53
  himself 1 by 1, then and said it al das the al das Rabin or even
• 16:59
  if he didn't say al das Rabin, it's as if he said al das Rabin.
• 17:02
  So then there's no way out. Basically believe it has a
• 17:07
  little bit of it's Sarah here and what to do in that case?
• 17:10
  Well, OK, let's do l'amadal kahala shirotseem lahat here has
• 17:14
  Kama bahirn viesha mohim hokhin akhar Harov.
• 17:18
  Now if the kahal they want to they want to undo it.
• 17:23
  The the other has come of the the the beta has come and puts
• 17:28
  the seaborne harem if they do XYZ.
• 17:31
  And then some people but somewhere disagree.
• 17:37
  Some want to undo the harem and some don't want to undo the
• 17:39
  harem. So Hokhin Akharov.
• 17:42
  So for this Hokhin Akharov is what when each individual does
• 17:48
  it and you do it all dust Seabor.
• 17:50
  So mistama, you need everyone to agree.
• 17:53
  But here the it's it's the seabor who made the harem and
• 17:57
  it's the seabor that could undo the harem.
• 18:00
  So therefore you don't need each individual.
• 18:04
  You only need Rove Shiima robe, Maskemi Mahathir matirin.
• 18:09
  As long as the robe agrees you, you can undo it.
• 18:11
  Me Shalohisky in the Hatara Lady de who, Lady de Lo Hutar.
• 18:17
  But let's say you have some of it's some of the among a group
• 18:23
  of Rabbani who who made or the leaders who made the the harem.
• 18:28
  So and some want to undo it and some don't want to undo it.
• 18:32
  So the ones who don't want to undo it, it stays usser for them
• 18:35
  and they can't they they're the mute.
• 18:38
  So you go after the Rove and everyone gets free from the
• 18:41
  Khairam except the the this minority of the leaders are
• 18:46
  Rabbani who don't want to undo it so they get stuck with the
• 18:48
  Khairam. I am not to know reshute the
• 18:51
  Tuva Hai Heim BIM Malcolm or if the seaboard decides to give the
• 18:56
  rights to the Tuva Hai or whoever the leaders are and then
• 19:01
  so they can act on behalf of the entire kaha.