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What I've Learnt - Lior · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: As one of Australia's most prolific and respected singer-songwriters, we welcome the talented Liore to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: A multi-area award-winning singer-songwriter, Liore has performed globally and featured on stage with a broad range of musical legends, from supporting Carol King and James Taylor's Oz Tour to being selected to perform solo at the 100th year anniversary of Australians in Gallipoli.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Liore's trademark music crosses from pop to classical audiences, seemingly with ease.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: From sold-out shows at the Sydney Opera House to performing at the Edinburgh Festival, Liore continues to make his mark.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, Liore, you've been described as a master craftsman in the art of songwriting, a performance perfectionist.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is this true?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you hold this mantle?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Was that my mother?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, let me just research that.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know, isn't that wonderful?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: I would I wouldn't be so bold to call myself a master craftsman by any means.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, you know, I'm working on it, and I certainly respect and and and love the craft of songwriting, and it's forever a mystery that I'm trying to uh unwind, untangle.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you clear, I mean you are renowned though for your performance expertise.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're quite meticulous.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, I mean, testament to this was the Queen of Songwriting Carol King and the songwriting King James Taylor inviting you to tour Australia with them.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: What did you learn from that extraordinary experience?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what was it like to work alongside the titans of songwriting and performance?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was a massive thrill, obviously.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the most beautiful memory I have from that experience was um I remember they were about to get on stage, was um at the Hunter Valley, um, north of Sydney, and they're about to play to about 10,000, 15,000 people.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sort of, I'd done my set and I was side of stage, and I was, you know, trying to kind of like get close but out of the way kind of thing.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was hiding behind a speaker.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um they sort of they walked right past me and they sort of did notice I was there, and and I had this really beautiful insight into a shared moment between them where they just all where they just turned to each other um about two meters away from where I was standing and saying, you know, how lucky are we to be doing this, you know?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they gave each other a big hug and I thought, well, I think they were they were 67, around about 67, maybe, maybe more, uh close to 70 at the time.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And just to have had their respective careers and still have that genuine level of appreciation um for what they did was uh was it was beautiful to see.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And did it sort of give you hope that in a sense it's in your DNA if you're a songwriter, doesn't matter how old you are, it doesn't matter how, but if your songs speak to the world, they keep going and there's a there's a wonderful uh longevity, I suppose.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Did that is that something that resonated with you?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I think I got that.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: The the first time I actually was was uh met met um, well, I met Carol first and and I supported her during some shows in Australia.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my first album had just come out, so I was a real thrill to be um invited to open, you know, for her.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember it was a show in Hobart, and um she was playing these songs, and I mean I always believed in the power and universality of songwriting, but you know, to see this legend of songwriting playing these songs oh 40 years after she'd written them, and and it's still having such a profound impact on people, that was, yeah, that definitely left an imprint for an impressionable young guy who had just put out a first album, you know, to believe in the in the longevity of of a great song.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting too, because you know, they could have pretty much plucked anyone from anywhere and and they've they chose you.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's quite a testimonial, and it's it's quite a a privilege, and I'm sure something that you will forever um remember.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that's got to say something about what it is that you're offering.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you put that down to?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's something to do with your um ability to be diverse and also to be an auth, you're seen as a very authentic songwriter?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks, Deb.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh look, I was lucky in the sense that that the invitation from from Carol um happened right after my first album came out.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there was there was sort of a bit of a buzz around that first album.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as an artist, you only enjoy that novelty period once in your life and your career, if you're lucky.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was I was in the height of that, and I think that's was a big part in helping, you know, get across the line, the the um the position of of the support for for that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, look, I think I think particularly with the first album, there was a lot uh the yeah, I waited a while until I did my first album.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people do their first album when they're a late teenager or an early 20s.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was sort of you know 25, 20, 26, even, I think.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted my first album to be a complete work that I was proud of rather than a learning experience.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd sort of put singles out and dabbled, but I really put that first album out uh when I felt ready that I had a body of work that I was proud of and that spoke about my experiences leading up to that time in my life.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, there definitely was an authenticity about the album, which is uh is uh I think a main reason why it resonated with people in the way that it did.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've carved yourself a unique place in Australian music, you know, so because you draw on multiculturalism and Middle Eastern elements, which I actually love, um, and I think really are quite um beautiful and an ode to your roots, um, and you know, create these beautiful albums, um, and you have sold-out tours across the country, including, you know, at the Sydney Opera House, and it's quite extraordinary.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then you did a student with the Sydney Theatre Company, you seem comfortable traversing different platforms for your music.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a storyteller at heart?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And where does that come from?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Although I might have a guess, but I'll let you tell our listeners.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's funny, uh, it's I never really saw myself as a storyteller.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I I always saw that as a weakness of mine, is is being able to tell a story.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I put out the first album, a lot of people said, Oh, you're such a great storyteller.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't I don't tell stories, I just keep a diary of what's happening in my life.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think my perhaps my limitation was I I I was a bit narrow-minded in the way that I um saw what a story is.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it opened my mind to, well, a story isn't just telling something about something that happened in third person, you know, a story or in three acts.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't have to be exactly it presents itself in many forms.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I it was a good moment for me because then I started looking at my more introspective form of writing um as as a story as well, you know, that just took on a bit of a different, a different format.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and since then I've branched out in the way that I've told stories, but um yeah, I think I'm just persistent.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, one of my favorite songs, you know, Let's Grow All Together.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that that it's such a beautiful story.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: That I mean that that really is a story, and I think it resonated that particular song with a lot of people, because obviously it's quite a universal theme, getting old together, which is really, you know.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: That song really surprised me in the way that it was picked up by um a real broad range of ages.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I remember when I was starting to perform that album, having you know, 16-year-olds in in the crowd and and underage shows and and and kind of hugging each other, and it was like, oh, this is our song.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh wow, you know, um, which was so lovely.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't actually set that set about writing that song as as a love song.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I I just yeah, I was as as I mentioned in my mid-20s and I was looking back at at you know, the sort of that in that stage of life where you're coming out of being a kid, you know, and embracing all those things that that come with them with with entering adulthood, if you like, and and looking at my relationship with my wife, um, and we had been going out for a few years and sort of feeling like, you know, this is the one constant in my life.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a beautiful companionship around everything else is changing so fast, and this is the one constant in my life.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that was so it was that was it, that was the inspiration.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was more like a reflection on where I was at in life.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it really got sort of taken by the public as a as a love song, which initially surprised me, but after sort of having a bit of distance from it, I think that um it was a love song that was grounded in a sense of reality.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you look at most love songs and they sort of talk about that whole, you know, amazing, tumultuous initial period, or the phantasmical, you know, cosmic kind of kind of love.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um the reality is that you know, um, love is is so much more than that, and and over time, particularly, it grows into something so much more than that, or or so much broader than that.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just had all almost like an unsentimental reality to it that that um I think resonated with a lot of people.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely agree with your yeah, I mean, that is absolutely true.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you were 16 or 60, it was a sense of of uh being there for the long haul.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: I loved that whole that whole vision in that song so beautifully, and that that there's more to life than just the romantic love.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's part of romantic love to be on that journey together for a long time.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I loved it, I thought it was beautiful.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about I mean it must have been a major highlight for you of being invited to um be the sole Australian artist uh at the prestigious hundred-year anniversary at the landing of Gallippi.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: What an extraordinary, uh extraordinary opportunity.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um leading the dawn service with the choir.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: What was that what was that like?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you take from that amazing uh journey and I'm sure very emotional time?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was uh obviously an immense uh privilege to have been invited there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I uh a few things.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one was I I I didn't fully grasp the power of um Anzac Day and Gallipoli until I was there.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people say that is when you're there and you're experiencing the the harsh climate and the cold and you see the physical landscape, and you know, take it takes you closer to sort of imagining what those soldiers went through.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: So on a viscera level, it was the first time I really felt, you know, uh a lot of the things that I suppose it's there to mark.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the the other thing is that um I I was invited to perform a song of mine called Safety of Distance, which is um, as I mentioned, it was a great pleasure and privilege to have been invited.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that song was was actually I wrote that about um something, it was a program that I saw about uh a group of Vietnam vets who had travelled back to Vietnam and um set up these houses of friendship in order to try and invite people who had fought on the other side uh to you know to get together and humanize each other and you know break down barriers as a process of healing.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so I wrote this song, Safety Distance, which has the central line, compassion is the measure of a man.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I wasn't just thrilled to be invited to perform at the at the ceremony.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was also really nice that this song was chosen as well, which you know may not have been an obvious choice to perform at the Gallipoli ceremony, but it was a really lovely, universal sort of message of compassion to include as part of the ceremony.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: What an extraordinary opportunity for you.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and I know there would have been at the centenary, there would have been a lot of extraordinary people there anyway, but to be performing your song, um It also goes to show that, you know, as you said, you'd written a song that wasn't specifically for that purpose, but it was with that universal theme.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved that about a good song or somebody who's a good songwriter can actually adapt it to circumstances and it can have meaning beyond what it was intended initially.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I think a real skill, actually.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and one that you've mastered clearly.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you've toured extensively both in Australia and internationally and been a regular performer at WOMAD and art festivals around the world, including, as I understand it, an entire season at the Edinburgh Festival.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um so touring's a big part of what you do.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you've obviously collaborated with a lot of artists in the process, including visual artists, which I like because you're you you're you're willing to work with other people in different mediums.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: You've worked with string quartets, symphony orchestras.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do you love about collaboration and what can you learn from working so closely with other people and other artists?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think essentially I I enjoy working with people who inspire me because they do they bring different parts of your own creativity out.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, so you as an artist, you're you want to feel challenged and you want to feel inspired.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh when you spot someone whose creativity lights that spark in you, then you you know, like a moth, you're drawn to the flame.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find sometimes there's a clash of uh wills?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because often artists are headstrong in their vision.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so have you how how do you I mean, because you have to be a certain personality to be able to say, okay, I'm gonna give in here because I'm gonna get this and I'm gonna adapt.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that in itself is something you've got better at?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's quite a challenge.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've gotten much better at it, but it does make a difference that that I'm a solo artist.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in my in my early days, I was in bands and there were there was a lot of conflict and you know, and I wasn't mature enough to to deal with that conflict.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: No one was, and you know, I mean, that's why you get, you know, most bands end up hating each other.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a difficult environment um to stay in for a long time and put you know so much uh so much of yourself on the line, yet still be open to compromise and and you know um collaboration.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I have gotten better at it, but being a solo artist generally also when you're collaborating with someone, there there are sort of clearer boundaries as well.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very good point.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I actually get that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You're coming from your base, and they're coming from their base, and they you can unite as opposed to having to completely forfeit your vision.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so tell us what's next for you.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've got a new album, and um also how you're coping, not touring, because I saw you had some quite a few tours booked, and not going to and that festivals are in hiatus, and how you're dealing with this brave new world that we all face, but particularly artists, um, are challenged by.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, look, my my last album came out a couple of years ago, and I was actually in the middle of recording a new project, which is a collaboration with a a Melbourne-based singer-songwriter called Domini Forster, who's a beautiful emerging artist.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the first time that I've really collaborated with someone who's who does the same thing as I do, in a sense.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, like you mentioned, but most of my collaborations in the past have been with someone that brings about a different skill set or comes from a different world.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But but Domini is a beautiful singer-songwriter, and and we um she she was my support act for a long time and a back and vocal singer in my band.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we we came together on my last album and wrote a song, which was a duet.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that the process of of that was was really um a beautiful one, and we feel our voices have a really synergetic blend.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we decided to embark on a bit of a a bit of a an experiment to write a batch of songs together, which which went really well, uh, and and subsequently made a decision to make that into a recording project, whether it be an EP or an album, not sure yet.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we we were actually in the middle of recording, in fact, we were day two of recording when um when we got told to go indoors and and and uh under lockdown.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's that's what I'm in the middle of.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to write and stay creative, but um it's quite been quite a difficult period.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you're in your own head a lot.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And things I was referring to about the the um fires that that that that are other artists and people that inspire you light um towards your own creativity, uh, you know, they're not around.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it does feel like it's a bit of a slog and a constant sort of process of uh trying to motivate yourself and try and find something new to keep you energized.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's it's not a it's not a particularly easy period.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what, you're not alone.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as I mentioned to you earlier, I mean I've spoken to many artists um through this process on the podcast, and many are feeling the same.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose some are saying, well, I've got an interior space I can go into, so that's a benefit, but the other, as you rightly uh just mentioned, you end up with a situation where sometimes you're too in that space and it can be um uh feel a little oppressive.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So have you got some tools that you're drawing on um as best you can, as as I suppose we all are, to try and maintain your creativity and some trajectory and some planning for the future?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh look, I I am starting to do Zoom writing sessions.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's not particularly inspiring, but um I do find even conversations with fellow artists is helping to at least sort of keep keep things uh alight.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And just you know, as humans, we we do uh um gain comfort from the fact that yeah, contemporaries are dealing with similar issues and that you're not alone.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be honest with you, I'm in the process of figuring that out.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think up to now it's been you know, we'll we'll see it through and we'll do what we can, but it's a waiting game, and and now it feels oh, okay, this is gonna be a long haul.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think I'm gonna need to try and, you know, for me, I think it's about finding a discipline.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um whether that be like a a time, you know, a physical time discipline, or you know, I think that's what I'm in the process of figuring out.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have the answers yet, but I think that that discipline might be the one way to just at least clock in the hours and and make sure that that I'm not wandering and drifting, because it that's what it feels like.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit of a drifting period.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: It feels a little bit dystopian, and I think everyone's feeling that similar.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I understand exactly what you're saying.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope and I'm sure that some beautiful gems will come out of this time for you and that you will be on the road again as soon as possible.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're all just missing that live music feel.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know some of the artists I've spoken to have moved to Sydney, certainly in the short term, thinking you know, hoping to get some um traction there.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I think you're right, it's a long haul, but let's hope something beautiful and creative comes out of it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish you the best and love chatting to you.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh good luck.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining what I've learned.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you've learned as much as I have.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: The show will be coming to you free every month, and a subscription is the best way to ensure you get each episode downloaded straight into your pocket.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: For more stories or for an opportunity to tell your own, head to my website, mindfell and publishing.com.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, stay curious, kind, and connected with life again.