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This Life Or Another From Melissa Payne Do You Choose To Stay Here Or Change · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: One of my favorite podcasts on Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net, is Foodie Paradise.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: It gives me the opportunity to share and break bread
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: with the biggest names in the kitchen, restaurants, or wherever
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: food is prepared. Foodie Paradise, only on Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net. Enjoy
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: your exploration. Hello. Oh, there you are. How are you?
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  Speaker 2: Good.
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  Speaker 3: This is Melissa Payne.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, Melissa, I'm blessed I get to talk with you
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  Speaker 1: directly instead of having a producer at the front. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: my God. What a beautiful day.
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  Speaker 3: It's a beautiful day. I agree.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I got to start things off by asking this
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  Speaker 1: brand new book in this life or another. Did you
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  Speaker 1: have the night of many endings?
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  Speaker 3: Oh my older book well I think we talked about
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  Speaker 3: that didn't we we.
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  Speaker 1: Sure did and but see the thing I've always believed
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  Speaker 1: in is that when you bring up like a book
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  Speaker 1: like that in a title like that it's like the
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  Speaker 1: next project are you going to relive your own book
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  Speaker 1: that you just lived and and I just feel like
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  Speaker 1: it's like oh my god here comes Melissa with something
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  Speaker 1: that's even deeper into our hearts do you know how
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  Speaker 1: many people you're going to touch with this new book.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, I love that you say that, Arrow. Thank you
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  Speaker 3: so much. I hope so. I truly hope I do,
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  Speaker 3: because it meant a lot in the writing of it.
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  Speaker 2: And it's one of those books that I think kind
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  Speaker 2: of deals with questions that not all of us have
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  Speaker 2: the answer to.
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  Speaker 3: I certainly don't.
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  Speaker 2: And so I think I do hope that it touches
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  Speaker 2: people and I hope it sparks a lot of conversation, too.
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  Speaker 1: It's going to because I have a podcast on iHeartRadio
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  Speaker 1: that's that really does every week. I do it and
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  Speaker 1: it's all based on one thing. is that if you
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  Speaker 1: don't ask yourself the questions and get to know you,
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  Speaker 1: why are you giving it to other people who've never
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  Speaker 1: walked in your shoes? And, and it's, and that's why
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  Speaker 1: I love this book so much. And I think this
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  Speaker 1: is the reason why I fell in love with Rusty is,
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  Speaker 1: is that you give me this person. I now have
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  Speaker 1: an identity to relate with.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Rusty was, um, I, well, I loved
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  Speaker 2: writing him. He actually, the idea for him came from this, um,
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  Speaker 2: I think it was a reality show I saw.
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  Speaker 3: It was a guy who fixed up old cars. Did
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  Speaker 3: you ever see that? Now I can't remember what network
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  Speaker 3: it was on, but he fixed up old cars and
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  Speaker 3: that's all this guy did. And he loved it.
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  Speaker 2: And he was funny and he had this like big
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  Speaker 2: personality and I didn't take all of him into Rusty,
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  Speaker 2: but I took a lot of him and he just
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  Speaker 2: fascinated me as a character. And so Rusty just kind
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  Speaker 2: of sprang to life over, you know, a series of
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  Speaker 2: attempts and writings and months, but I enjoyed writing him.
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  Speaker 1: You bring up such a very interesting question. And what
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  Speaker 1: it is, it is the realm between life and death,
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  Speaker 1: the choices that are profound and there are some consequences.
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  Speaker 1: And I do love listening to stories like this because
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  Speaker 1: in July of 2009, I was there. But yet you
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  Speaker 1: can't just walk into a circle of people and say,
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  Speaker 1: so what did you feel? So I depend on people
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  Speaker 1: like you, Melissa, to share these stories so I don't
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  Speaker 1: have to go into that circle with others to ask
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  Speaker 1: that question.
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  Speaker 3: Wow, Arrow.
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  Speaker 2: So did you have what people call a near-death experience?
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  Speaker 1: I was right there in the hospital. I went into
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  Speaker 1: meditation when the doctor looked at me and said, hey, look,
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  Speaker 1: you're having a heart attack right now. And he says,
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  Speaker 1: I can't predict anything. And I went into meditation. I
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  Speaker 1: looked at my wife and she was maybe 25, 30
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  Speaker 1: feet from me. And I just thought to myself, I've
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  Speaker 1: got to get back to living. Don't let this be
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  Speaker 1: that moment.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, that gave me chills.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. So you've been there and you understand parts of
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  Speaker 2: what that felt like. And it is hard to, I'm
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  Speaker 2: sure it is incredibly hard to share that with other
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  Speaker 2: people because not many of us have that opportunity to
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  Speaker 2: face it so starkly.
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  Speaker 3: Many of us do, but a lot of us don't.
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  Speaker 2: And then also that idea of when we're not here,
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  Speaker 2: where are we? And, you know, I think I'm just
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  Speaker 2: at that stage of life where I have less years
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  Speaker 2: ahead of me than I.
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  Speaker 3: Have behind me. And so those questions come up a lot.
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  Speaker 2: And, you know, so writing from that was more almost
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  Speaker 2: as much a personal journey as it was, you know,
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  Speaker 2: a work of fiction.
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  Speaker 3: Because I wonder. And so to play within that area
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  Speaker 3: and to ask myself those questions, well, what happens for
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  Speaker 3: this character if?
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  Speaker 2: And what will he do when faced with this? And
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  Speaker 2: so those were like kind of profound questions for me.
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  Speaker 2: And I find those to be the one thing that
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  Speaker 2: unites every single one of us is.
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  Speaker 3: That we don't really know what happens.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not going to claim that some people, you know,
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  Speaker 2: we don't we all have beliefs and different beliefs and
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  Speaker 2: all of that. But we don't really know until we're there.
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  Speaker 2: And that to me somehow brings me peace. And that
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  Speaker 2: idea that we're all in the same boat here without
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  Speaker 2: that also brings me a sense of, I don't know, calm,
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  Speaker 2: which is bizarre, but maybe that's just where I am.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I love the way that you present Rusty Wilson
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  Speaker 1: in the way that he's got to make that choice.
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  Speaker 1: He can stay in his disappointing life or he can,
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  Speaker 1: he can grow into this alternate ego style life. And
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's where a lot of us are in
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  Speaker 1: this day of AI technology and social media and, And
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  Speaker 1: I always, and you're going to think I'm the freak.
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  Speaker 1: I always go for, I'm going to stay in this
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  Speaker 1: very disappointing life because I'm here to learn something. And
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  Speaker 1: if I sit here and I falsify my records, what
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  Speaker 1: did I learn? How to be a fake. And I
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  Speaker 1: don't want to be a fake. I want to go
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  Speaker 1: through the storms.
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  Speaker 2: I love what you said, actually, because that's one of
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  Speaker 2: the biggest questions that Rusty is facing.
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  Speaker 3: It's on the eve of his 60th birthday.
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  Speaker 2: He's kind of looking back going, I haven't lived the
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  Speaker 2: life I think I was supposed to live. For him particularly,
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  Speaker 2: he was saved from a fire when he was two
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  Speaker 2: years old by his older brother. His older brother perished
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  Speaker 2: in that fire. And so Rusty felt that responsibility of
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  Speaker 2: now my life should be something.
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  Speaker 3: And we think.
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  Speaker 2: in this world that to be something it has to
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  Speaker 2: look a certain way it's got to be big it's
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  Speaker 2: got to be splashy it's got to like be like
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  Speaker 2: on the front page news this was an exploration of
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  Speaker 2: a just of a life nothing splashy nothing fancy and
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  Speaker 2: the question was well what makes it truly meaningful Is
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  Speaker 2: it all the things that we do that get a
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  Speaker 2: lot of attention? Is it the small day to day
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  Speaker 2: choices that we make that affect the people around us?
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  Speaker 2: So I love what you just said, because it directly
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  Speaker 2: affects it directly relates to, I think, Rusty's journey to
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  Speaker 2: what a lot of us.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's because I'm a daily writer. I've been daily
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  Speaker 1: writing since July of 1994. So 32 year old Arrow
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  Speaker 1: versus 64 year old Arrow. I mean, I laugh at
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  Speaker 1: him because he had such spunk and ambition. He feared nothing.
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  Speaker 1: And I just want to go back and just hug
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  Speaker 1: him and say, please mellow out. Can you just mellow out?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, did you feel the same thing in writing
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  Speaker 1: a book like this? Because you know there's going to
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  Speaker 1: be a lot of readers out here going, can we
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  Speaker 1: just mellow out? Because she's got it. She's put it
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  Speaker 1: here right here. Like I said, again, Rusty is an
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  Speaker 1: identity for a lot of people who don't want to
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  Speaker 1: talk about it. And I'm so proud of you for
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  Speaker 1: putting Rusty in this story.
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  Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much.
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  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people,
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  Speaker 2: what I hope is that in the writing of it,
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  Speaker 2: it was a lot of self-reflection for me. And so
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  Speaker 2: I hope if that's what somebody else wants or, or
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  Speaker 2: gets from it, I hope that it sparks conversation and
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  Speaker 2: I hope that it sparks thinking and, and I hope
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  Speaker 2: that it gets people to a point where they feel like, okay,
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  Speaker 2: maybe I can really, if maybe there's things I struggle
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  Speaker 2: with in my life, um, you know, regret.
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  Speaker 3: We all can, all of us have regret. Some of
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  Speaker 3: us carry it heavier than others.
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  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. And sometimes I think it's a matter of, do
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  Speaker 2: we look back and say, I wish I'd done it differently.
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  Speaker 2: And then I think my life would have been better.
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  Speaker 2: Or what did that, what did that choice back then
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  Speaker 2: that I regret? Who is it made me today? Am I,
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  Speaker 2: am I the better before it? And, and how has
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  Speaker 2: that been impacted the people around me? So when you
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  Speaker 2: brought up the night of any endings, it's that same
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  Speaker 2: idea of like how we don't know another person till
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  Speaker 2: we know each other's stories. This is similar in it's
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  Speaker 2: more internal, right? We don't necessarily always understand ourselves and
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  Speaker 2: our motivations, so we really understand Our story. Where did
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  Speaker 2: we come from?
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  Speaker 3: Why are we here? How did we get here? Where
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  Speaker 3: are we going?
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  Speaker 1: Well, the titles of your book, Melissa, they really do
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  Speaker 1: tie together. And I'm not saying, hey, everybody has to
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  Speaker 1: start with In the Drift, but come on now. You
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  Speaker 1: really do have– it all connects together. And I think
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  Speaker 1: that's why I have to read your material because somewhere
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  Speaker 1: in every one of these stories, there's a connecting line.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm going to find that Easter egg. I see
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  Speaker 1: it in the titles, but I know there's something in
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  Speaker 1: one of those paragraphs that's going to make me say–
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  Speaker 1: This is it. She knew it all along and we
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  Speaker 1: had to find it.
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  Speaker 2: I love it.
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  Speaker 4: When you get there, please let me know. I, you know,
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  Speaker 4: I will, you know, but where did you get the
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  Speaker 4: courage and the confidence to give yourself permission to explore
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  Speaker 4: like this?
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  Speaker 1: Because you do go into areas that people like to
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  Speaker 1: push away, but not you, you went for it.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's precisely because I don't have the confidence
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  Speaker 2: or the experience. I think it's because if you just,
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  Speaker 2: you know, I'm in a place most of my life,
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  Speaker 2: I'm in a place where I feel like I'm still learning.
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  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm still growing as a person. I
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  Speaker 2: have none of the answers. I have a lot of ideas.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I write.
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  Speaker 2: From my heart and I write from the questions that
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  Speaker 2: I may struggle with or that I'm curious about.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm curious about people.
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  Speaker 2: So I think it comes from a very like genuine
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  Speaker 2: part of me. And then I find as a reader,
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  Speaker 2: I love fiction that explores this.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I love fiction.
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  Speaker 2: The book, The Correspondent, I loved how it explored getting
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  Speaker 2: older and technology and, you know, kind of relationships.
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  Speaker 3: I love those are my kind of stories, too.
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  Speaker 2: So it's just where I naturally go as a writer.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe I have a horror story in me.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, my God. Can you imagine that? Oh, my God.
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  Speaker 1: That's got to be the next one. Please do not move.
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  Speaker 1: There's more fun and laughter. and the inside scoop of
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  Speaker 1: what it's like to be a writer with Melissa Payne
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  Speaker 1: coming up next. The name of the book in this
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  Speaker 1: life or another. We are back with author Melissa Payne.
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  Speaker 1: I just want to say, ladies and gentlemen, this is
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  Speaker 1: the true sign of an honest to God teacher. And
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  Speaker 1: she does teach. She helps people, writers in Colorado, and
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  Speaker 1: that she does put herself in the values of their
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  Speaker 1: lives as well. They need to know that about you,
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  Speaker 1: that you are not just putting words on a page,
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  Speaker 1: that you activate everything that you do.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you.
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  Speaker 2: I certainly try to, I certainly try to, I think
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  Speaker 2: if I'm going to be in this discipline in this career,
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  Speaker 2: that it is important to me, it's always important.
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  Speaker 3: And I think we've talked about this, especially in the 90,
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  Speaker 3: many endings.
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  Speaker 2: I'm writing often about real people, not the characters aren't real, but,
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  Speaker 2: but they will come across as real people. And anytime
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  Speaker 2: I do that, I always know that there's going to
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  Speaker 2: be a reader who will relate to this person. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: so I never want them to be a caricature. I
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  Speaker 2: never want them to be to who we've set them
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  Speaker 2: up to be. So that when people read it and
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  Speaker 2: they feel themselves reflected, they also feel respected and a
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  Speaker 2: little honored in this. And so those are the things
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  Speaker 2: that go through my head, which is probably why I
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  Speaker 2: go a little crazy every.
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  Speaker 3: Time I write a book.
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  Speaker 1: Well, as that people person that you are, and I
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  Speaker 1: do believe that you're also a silent watcher because you
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  Speaker 1: study people's actions, reactions, and their determinations. As we grow older,
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  Speaker 1: one of the things that we're facing, you and I
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  Speaker 1: probably are, is the fact that everybody around us is
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  Speaker 1: getting older as well. And those that we looked up
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  Speaker 1: to as elders are now Alzheimer's. Their bodies are broken.
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  Speaker 1: How are you dealing with that as a writer? Because
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  Speaker 1: you know that it's headed toward us. And we've got
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  Speaker 1: to figure out as writers how we can teach those
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  Speaker 1: that are going to be around us. Was that too deep?
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  Speaker 1: My God, I went deep, didn't I?
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  Speaker 3: You sure did.
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  Speaker 2: And I love it. And you actually hit right at
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  Speaker 2: the where I am in life. You know, I've got
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  Speaker 2: my we've got elderly parents.
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  Speaker 3: I have my mom. And, you know, what I'm learning.
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  Speaker 2: Is that watching her, there's a saying and I can
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  Speaker 2: remember where I've heard this. But the saying is, remember,
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  Speaker 2: it's their first time going through life, too. And that's
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  Speaker 2: how I look at my mother.
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  Speaker 3: It is beautiful.
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  Speaker 2: And I think it's something we should all remember, both
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  Speaker 2: for people older than us and younger than us. So
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  Speaker 2: when I look at my mom and I see the
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  Speaker 2: struggles that she's facing, I just remember to honor her
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  Speaker 2: and be compassionate and remember that I'm going to be there.
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  Speaker 2: And so what kind of legacy do I want to
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  Speaker 2: leave behind me? So that when I'm at that place
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  Speaker 2: where life is harder, our brains aren't functioning the way
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  Speaker 2: we wish that they would. Our bodies aren't doing what
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  Speaker 2: we want.
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  Speaker 3: Them to do. And I hope that I get to
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  Speaker 3: that stage, right? That's also a blessing to get to
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  Speaker 3: that place too.
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  Speaker 2: And I hope that when I'm there, I've left enough room.
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  Speaker 2: things behind me for others who are coming along, doing
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  Speaker 2: it for the first time too. I guess just, just
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  Speaker 2: treating all of this, this growing older. Now I love
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  Speaker 2: that you got deep. This is the kind of stuff
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  Speaker 2: I could talk about all day long, but because I
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  Speaker 2: don't know, I mean, getting older.
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  Speaker 3: Is not fun, but it is, it is a gift. So,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I'm just doing what I can with that gift.
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  Speaker 1: I always believe that writers and authors are really writing
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  Speaker 1: dear future reader moments. And sometimes I wonder what happens
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  Speaker 1: if that dear future reader is you, you left the
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  Speaker 1: message for your future self.
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  Speaker 3: Well, Oh, I love that.
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  Speaker 2: Um, gosh, well then I hope what I have given
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  Speaker 2: myself as an idea for another story. Yes.
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  Speaker 1: Don't you love that sickness? Oh my God. I cherish it.
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  Speaker 1: I swear to God I do.
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  Speaker 3: Let's want more stories. And how can I tell a
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  Speaker 3: different story?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So I hope it's a little nugget. Like, I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to write this and this is perfect for where I
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  Speaker 3: am right now.
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  Speaker 1: I'll sit there with my wife and I'll go, how
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  Speaker 1: is it that these pens don't come with ink anymore
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  Speaker 1: like they used to? And she says, you're writing so much.
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  Speaker 1: But I swear pens don't come with as much ink
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  Speaker 1: as they used to.
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  Speaker 3: No, I think you're right. They dry out or they
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  Speaker 3: fall out.
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  Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about everything
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  Speaker 1: that you're doing? I mean, I realize that the new
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  Speaker 1: book is where our focus is in this life or another,
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  Speaker 1: but I want them to enjoy your entire presence because
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  Speaker 1: every one of them, like I said, has an Easter
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  Speaker 1: egg in it that we're all going to find and
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  Speaker 1: have our own interpretation.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I hope so.
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  Speaker 2: And I think the one in this one is that,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it's just that chance to really ask those
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  Speaker 2: questions of, is am am i supposed to live a
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  Speaker 2: big life am i already impacting people around me and with.
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  Speaker 3: Rusty you know what i love about.
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  Speaker 2: This story too is it was really fun to write
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  Speaker 2: his little spirit guide ike the turtle that gave a
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  Speaker 2: little bit of levity to the story and allowed me
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  Speaker 2: to kind of explore that kind of the questions that
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  Speaker 2: could be asked him from not a person.
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  Speaker 3: Right he's getting asked.
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  Speaker 2: Continues to say he's not a guide um but he's
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  Speaker 2: he pokes it rusty to kind of look at things
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  Speaker 2: differently and as a writer to do that from a
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  Speaker 2: turtle's perspective was completely different for me too and that
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: was a fun challenge i enjoyed that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Oh you're talking my language now i i'm sorry you
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: got it we got to talk turtle talk here because
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: timmy has been with me for years inside this forest
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And turtles are such an amazing totem animal because they
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: carry their house on their back. But more importantly, they
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: understand the vibration of the earth. So I was inspired
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: by the fact that Rusty had this as a spirit
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: guide because turtles are powerful totem animals. And that's one
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of the reasons why I try to get people to
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: look deeper into what's around them, such as something as
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: simple as a turtle.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: I love that, that they carry their house on their back.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: They do. And that fits everything. That is such a
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: beautiful way to look at this.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Because particularly Ike and who he represents in this story,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: which we won't talk about, but he is a.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: Representation of home for Rusty throughout.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: He's that one. He's the turtle he picked up on
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: the side of the road. He's the one link he
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: has because Yvonne Steiner doesn't look right, but he's this
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: link to his life. And that's an important thing throughout
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: this is to have him still rooted in the life
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: that he lived.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: So then let me ask you this question. As the
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: writer and the author, The Sign of the Turtle, really
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: honest to God is, is that you're moving too fast
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: for too long. You need to slow down and pace yourself. Okay, Melissa,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: is that a personal message for you?
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: You might have to ask my husband.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: You might have to ask my husband that one. He
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: would say I move too fast because I get out
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: of bed and I.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Just don't stop. But I feel like I have, well, no,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know. You know what, Arrow? This is one
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: of those questions I'm going to have to wrestle with.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you do move a little too fast.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Well, you got to come back to this show anytime
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: in the future. I always have fun with you and
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it's never enough time.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Same with you.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I appreciate all your questions and the work that you
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: put into your shows.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: I think you bring a lot out of each author
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: and everyone you interview. So I appreciate you having me here.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you be brilliant today. Okay.
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: You got it. You too.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you.