Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Dunn about his choice of Revenge of the Cybermen (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:14
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife.
• 0:17
  The Doctor Who comment. I say the there's many Doctor
• 0:21
  Who commentary podcast, but it's one of the Doctor Who commentary
• 0:24
  podcasts. I am delirious with excitement
• 0:27
  today because breaking his hamster virginity, I have one of
• 0:33
  my very own patrons here with me today, Mr. Paul Dunn.
• 0:36
  Hello, Paul. Good evening, Joe, and how are
• 0:39
  you today? Hot it.
• 0:41
  Is hot, but I'm pleased to hear you pop in my cherry with you
• 0:46
  so. We start as we mean to go on.
• 0:49
  Indeed. Where are you in in England?
• 0:52
  I'm in Oxfordshire. Oh my God, beautiful part of
• 0:55
  England. Very nice, not very far from
• 0:59
  somewhere. That's your favorite story where
• 1:02
  the Android invasion was filmed? Not Didcot.
• 1:04
  Are you near Didcot? I'm very near Didcot, OH.
• 1:07
  Would you go visit there very often?
• 1:09
  We we do go occasionally just to wander about and be sad.
• 1:12
  Did. You do what I did and go and
• 1:15
  film versions of scenes from the Android invasion.
• 1:18
  No. No, it's great fun.
• 1:20
  Do it. I was the I was the evil Sarah
• 1:22
  with the gun. Will you?
• 1:25
  Did you fall over? Your face fell off.
• 1:27
  Yeah. Do you know what?
• 1:28
  I'll send you a link. It's on YouTube.
• 1:30
  He put it together as like a. Little yes.
• 1:32
  Android invasion trailer. It's a beautiful village though,
• 1:35
  isn't it? It's lovely, isn't it?
• 1:37
  But the geography is all wrong in the TV show, isn't it?
• 1:40
  Well, it looks massive. Yes, that's what it is.
• 1:44
  Did you go up and stand on that War Memorial?
• 1:46
  Pretend you. Did that, so shall we.
• 1:48
  Let's all go together. And I hope your mate did a good
• 1:54
  sticker on whoever you went with.
• 1:56
  Yeah, he did. Oh, what are we here to talk
• 1:59
  about today? We're here to talk about that.
• 2:02
  Seminole 7 is classic Forget your pyramids and Mars, forget
• 2:09
  your talents. This is the pinnacle we are
• 2:13
  talking about. Revenge of the Cyber, then.
• 2:16
  An eccentric choice, may I say, and I do want to know precisely
• 2:22
  why. We've got a long time to sort of
• 2:23
  figure out why you've chosen this for your debut.
• 2:26
  Can I ask you first what your Doctor Who journey has been?
• 2:30
  How did you find Doctor Who and sort of what's the journey been?
• 2:34
  Well, I mean, I think I've watched Doctor Who for about as
• 2:38
  long as I can remember. So clearly it was some, my mum
• 2:42
  used to like stuff like science fiction.
• 2:44
  So she was big on stuff like quite a Mass and she's likely
• 2:47
  John Wyndham's and, and, and she used to watch Doctor Who.
• 2:51
  So obviously I caught that from her.
• 2:53
  My first memory of it is I remember watching.
• 2:58
  I mean, this is the same for a lot of people our age, I feel.
• 3:01
  Destiny of the Daleks. The amount of people that have
• 3:04
  come in on Destiny of the Daleks.
• 3:07
  So season 17 was my entry point, but I do remember seeing The
• 3:13
  Pirate Planet and Android Zatara, so presumably they were
• 3:17
  the repeat. I love the pirate planet.
• 3:21
  Well that that's it's a great story, isn't it?
• 3:23
  Even though you've got Pendant Robbins directing it.
• 3:24
  But never mind the. Imagination in it though, is.
• 3:27
  Yeah, yeah. It it, it, it's brilliant.
• 3:29
  And I mean the the pirate captain put the fear of gone at
• 3:31
  me. So you sort.
• 3:33
  Of grew up with the early 80s then yes. 18/19/20 So season 17
• 3:38
  I remember quite vividly, but it was when it was season 18 was
• 3:46
  just my, I just loved it, you know, and that's when I wouldn't
• 3:49
  miss it. And, you know, a bit like Si
• 3:52
  Hart, the leisure hive is, is up there.
• 3:57
  Have you met Si? Yes, briefly.
• 3:59
  Oh, I was. Going to say you 2 are going
• 4:01
  very well, yes. Exceedingly tall.
• 4:04
  He's very I had. A car the first time and I just
• 4:08
  looked up at the sun. I was like bloody hell.
• 4:10
  But here I'm off. And so during like, you know, a
• 4:15
  lot of people that grew up with 80s Doctor Who, yes, as they
• 4:20
  sort of hit Colin or Sylvester and some people sort of fell
• 4:25
  away then or found it a bit much like, or did you just love it
• 4:30
  all? Well, it's, I mean, I always
• 4:32
  watched it. I would never not watch it.
• 4:35
  I loved Colin. I love, I love season 22.
• 4:38
  I mean, I don't care that it's violent.
• 4:41
  The young me thought that was great, really gritty.
• 4:43
  And yeah, I I just really love, you know, pushing people into
• 4:47
  acid baths and, and that sort of.
• 4:49
  Thing any of this I hope. No, no.
• 4:51
  Although I did mimic apart from a bit in Revenge of Assignment,
• 4:55
  which I will tell you about when we get to it.
• 4:57
  You do what? Sending mechanical snakes around
• 5:00
  to poison people? That sort of thing.
• 5:01
  Well, no, no, but no, sorry. But Sylvester McCoy, I didn't
• 5:09
  particularly. I mean, I watched it, but I
• 5:12
  didn't like it. I actually like it more in
• 5:14
  retrospect now than, I mean, obviously I was too young.
• 5:18
  I didn't appreciate that The Happiness Patrol was a satire,
• 5:20
  for example. I just thought it was just
• 5:24
  really rubbish with Bertie Bassett and you know, so.
• 5:27
  But no, I enjoy his stories much more now.
• 5:30
  And did did you like wilderness years?
• 5:34
  Did you? Leave.
• 5:35
  Oh yeah. Or did you read all the books?
• 5:37
  And oh, no, I, I, I kept the faith alive.
• 5:40
  So I mean, like 1989 was my first convention, so I had that
• 5:45
  to keep me through the wilderness years when that was a
• 5:47
  big social scene. You should go and do the Fitzroy
• 5:50
  Tavern, that sort of thing. Read.
• 5:51
  Oh OK, read all, read all the books, new adventures, the BBC
• 5:56
  novels, so you know. They were rubbing shoulders
• 5:58
  within the Fitzroy Tavern come. On Well, apparently back in the
• 6:01
  day, Mr. Russell T Davis himself used to go, but I didn't know
• 6:05
  Russell T Davis was back then. But yeah, you.
• 6:08
  Could have been executive producer of the new series, you
• 6:10
  know. Yeah, maybe, but I mean, Gary
• 6:13
  Russell used to go and it was all the guys from the magazine.
• 6:17
  Yeah. It would just be like old, like
• 6:19
  Steve Bouncefield Sumor. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:21
  There was lots of people down there, you know, and, and
• 6:24
  fanzines were a big thing back then.
• 6:26
  So, you know, people would be selling their wares.
• 6:28
  Yeah. It was a really creative time.
• 6:30
  Weirdly, given it was off the air, it's sort of thrived,
• 6:33
  didn't it, within that vacuum. And then of course, we had all
• 6:37
  our BBBS to watch and. What's your favorite?
• 6:40
  Come on, Yeah, I know, favourites.
• 6:45
  Quite hard to say when it comes to BBV.
• 6:47
  And I was going to sarcastically say Zygon, but you might
• 6:49
  actually believe me. So.
• 6:50
  Oh. My God.
• 6:52
  Obscene Zygon. It is do.
• 6:55
  You know, have have you ever seen, oh, what's that one that
• 6:58
  always made me die? The one about sexism?
• 7:01
  The court case Lost in space. Oh.
• 7:03
  Lost in space? Yeah.
• 7:04
  Yeah. But you don't want that on your
• 7:07
  shelf because people think that's something else.
• 7:09
  You say no. It's about Doctor Who, honestly.
• 7:11
  It's got your hair. Seen it?
• 7:13
  I'll say the Arizona solution as in answer to your earlier
• 7:16
  question. I quite enjoy the Arizona
• 7:17
  solution. Is that the first one?
• 7:19
  Isn't it with per wee in it? Yes, that's right.
• 7:21
  Yeah. Yeah, that's a goody.
• 7:24
  And then once so when the new series came back, obviously you,
• 7:29
  you've become a massive fan, you've got a huge collection.
• 7:32
  Then was were you on board with the new series as well?
• 7:35
  I was, I mean, I think we were all quite tentatively nervous
• 7:40
  about what we're going to get, but certainly in Russell's first
• 7:44
  era, I think he managed to update it for a new audience
• 7:47
  whilst keeping the original audience pretty happy.
• 7:51
  So it had all the elements there, didn't it?
• 7:53
  So, I mean, that's a banger, isn't it, that first series.
• 7:57
  Almost faultless, I think. It is.
• 7:59
  I mean, I don't even mind the farting aliens now.
• 8:04
  Political windbags, right? That's supposed to be the joke.
• 8:07
  Well, no one never gets it. Now, look, one last question
• 8:11
  before we head towards the story.
• 8:13
  Yeah, Jodie Whittaker, not your Doctor.
• 8:17
  Or not. Well.
• 8:26
  I would say no, but I have actually started doing a rewatch
• 8:29
  because Jim's doing his What's in the box commentary, isn't it?
• 8:34
  So, So I'm watching along with it and actually, I mean enjoying
• 8:38
  it this time much more. I did the first so actually I
• 8:41
  could be converted. That's, that's fair.
• 8:43
  And do you know what? I would never, I would never say
• 8:46
  to anybody that doesn't like, because I don't really like
• 8:48
  Moffitt's time, you know? And, well, a bunch of people
• 8:51
  tell me all the time I'm a bloody idiot, but.
• 8:55
  But the fact that you're going back and giving it another shot
• 8:57
  as well, yeah, That's the thing about Doctor Who fans.
• 8:59
  We don't ever quite give up, do we?
• 9:01
  No. Trying to like things.
• 9:03
  It's a bit like supporting a football team, isn't it?
• 9:05
  When it's not doing so well, you want it to do better, don't you?
• 9:07
  You say? Why would you ask me about
• 9:09
  football? I don't know anything.
• 9:11
  What team? Oh, I was gonna say what team
• 9:13
  do? You say I don't know anything
• 9:14
  about football. Me and sport are sort of like.
• 9:17
  Good company then. I know a bit about baseball, but
• 9:20
  just smashing Daleks with them and.
• 9:23
  Oh yeah, yeah, that's what they're for, isn't it?
• 9:26
  Well, sort of swinging us round to stories that we've watched a
• 9:30
  lot and we're trying to find love for Revenge of the Sidemen.
• 9:37
  Well, I mean, I think it's probably tied in with some
• 9:41
  nostalgia more than anything else because Deaf to the Daleks
• 9:46
  was my first VHS. I think everybody's first VHS
• 9:50
  was very nearly deaf to the Daleks and this was like my
• 9:54
  second or third one. So you think when I only had
• 9:56
  like 2 VHSS I had to watch them a lot.
• 9:59
  Which is why I absolutely. We were all about, didn't we?
• 10:02
  Like. Yeah.
• 10:03
  The tracking on all of mine was terrible.
• 10:05
  Yeah, but I love them as a result.
• 10:08
  I mean, I can see why people don't like them, but I just know
• 10:13
  them so well. They're so ingrained into me,
• 10:14
  so. You do realise if those were
• 10:16
  your first two Death to the Daleks and Revenge of the
• 10:18
  Sidemen, then really to your young brain.
• 10:21
  You must have thought that Carrie Blighton scored every
• 10:23
  episode of Doctor Who. Well, I, I, I will be mentioning
• 10:27
  Carrie Blighton later because I absolutely love the death to the
• 10:32
  death. I know people don't, but I like
• 10:33
  them. So do I.
• 10:35
  It's something different, isn't it?
• 10:37
  It's. Oh, can you sing it?
• 10:38
  Do you know how it goes? Oh.
• 10:47
  I love it. You know the bit, You know the
• 10:49
  bit where Sarah's down in the caves and it's like.
• 10:55
  Yeah. Whereas there's a lot of farting
• 11:01
  going on in Revenge of the Sidemen in there.
• 11:02
  A lot of. Passing I've been getting my
• 11:04
  groove onto the soundtrack this afternoon to get get myself
• 11:07
  mentally. You've not been listening to the
• 11:09
  music in isolation, have you? I have indeed.
• 11:12
  You are devoted. Or certified.
• 11:17
  Your your research for this podcast.
• 11:19
  Thank you very much. Your sanity may be out, but
• 11:22
  thanks for the commitment. Are you a big fan of Hinchcliffe
• 11:27
  or for Sarah and Harry? I I love Sarah and Harry.
• 11:32
  I think it's an absolute. I mean, I'll see, Liz is great
• 11:36
  all the way through, but I think Harry adds something to it, that
• 11:40
  it's a reference point for Sarah, isn't it?
• 11:43
  Whereas when they're on their own, all they can do is ask the
• 11:45
  Doctor. At least they can have a bit of
• 11:47
  a discussion about it. And I mean, he's the right side
• 11:50
  of Comic Relief without being Jeremy Fitz Oliver, isn't he?
• 11:58
  Action, Jeremy and. Nobody wants Jeremy Fitz Oliver.
• 12:03
  I mean, yes, and it means that if you've got the doctor to talk
• 12:07
  to Harry, you get things like that.
• 12:08
  What wonderful start of suntan experiment.
• 12:10
  Have you seen Sarah? No.
• 12:12
  Her legs are in the air. Yeah, it's a great combo.
• 12:18
  And I'm assuming. I mean, everyone loves Tom.
• 12:20
  But you love Tom. I do love Tom.
• 12:23
  I mean, he, I suppose he was my first.
• 12:25
  He's not the first doctor I saw all the way through, but he was
• 12:27
  the first doctor I saw. And I'm more used to season 17
• 12:31
  Tom and season eighteens because Tom's definitely got 3 distinct.
• 12:35
  Yes, yes, hasn't it? Yeah.
• 12:39
  And I like early Tom. I like all.
• 12:42
  Tom How would you describe him like brooding Tom, comedy Tom
• 12:47
  and. That was a very down his last
• 12:51
  series. Great word, yeah.
• 12:54
  So so OK, did you have the uncut 90, you know the sorry the cut
• 13:01
  90 minute, all of the cliffhangers out version?
• 13:04
  Yeah, yeah. And The thing is, when you watch
• 13:06
  it now, you're like, oh, there's a cliffhanger there.
• 13:09
  I mean, it was, it was the same for all of those, wasn't it?
• 13:11
  But. I can't remember how many there
• 13:13
  was, but I didn't see Pyramids and Mars with cliffhangers.
• 13:16
  Oh for like 20 years after I got that first VHS.
• 13:20
  Like I I just had that one and that was it.
• 13:23
  Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's a bit like Death to
• 13:25
  the Daleks again. I mean, you get to the kitchen
• 13:28
  floor of Doom. You don't think that's going to
• 13:30
  be an episode ending, do you? But it's certainly is so.
• 13:34
  It's it's a big shock when you realise that's the end of three,
• 13:36
  isn't it? Look, it's a floor.
• 13:40
  I mean, have you been to IKEA? It can be pretty scary, you
• 13:43
  know, And there's no windows and the, the exit's the other side
• 13:46
  of the building. So it's a bit like certainly the
• 13:47
  exelons. Yes.
• 13:50
  I went into shop in Eastbourne called Camilla's the other day
• 13:56
  and they had a load of Doctor Who VHS for Sarah 250 or
• 14:00
  something like that, and they had the Revenge of the Side men
• 14:03
  and I went Oh my God, I'm doing a commentary for this next week.
• 14:06
  I've got to get it. I said, have we still got Avhs
• 14:08
  player? He's like, yeah, I'll hook it
• 14:10
  up. So I watched it this weekend on.
• 14:13
  I mean, this quality was terrible.
• 14:15
  I can't even tell you, but you know that.
• 14:19
  Oh yes. I was like 4 years old again.
• 14:23
  Oh that, that's brilliant, isn't it?
• 14:25
  The little BBC logo. And the bit at the end with the
• 14:28
  with the little diamond vanishes, you know?
• 14:29
  Yeah. Oh my God, It really, really
• 14:31
  took me back. And it did make me think that
• 14:37
  things were so different back then, weren't they?
• 14:39
  Like, you know, you had one or two videos, you could get some
• 14:43
  Target books. Like now everything's on iPlayer
• 14:46
  if you don't keep. Now do they?
• 14:48
  You don't build up a collection, you don't do it slowly, so you
• 14:53
  don't watch them over and over again.
• 14:54
  I would imagine that a kid, a four year old now finding Doctor
• 14:57
  Who would just binge it in like six months.
• 15:01
  Just didn't make it more interesting for us because we,
• 15:03
  we didn't watch it in in order. We just sort of watched whatever
• 15:06
  was released that month, you know, so.
• 15:09
  I just really took me back. I'll call it like the
• 15:11
  archaeology of Doctor Who, sort of put in the whole thing
• 15:14
  together and you know, buying those fabulous books, the 70's,
• 15:17
  the ACS, the handbooks and earning all the stuff.
• 15:20
  I don't get me wrong, at four years old I would have loved to
• 15:25
  have had it all on a plate like they have now.
• 15:28
  I'm kind of glad I didn't. Yeah, it's more of the journey
• 15:31
  of discovery, isn't it? It's, you know, it's just not
• 15:35
  you. It was something to look forward
• 15:36
  to each month, wasn't it? When they released their next
• 15:38
  video and. Well, I think that's why we're
• 15:40
  in so deep. We did so much what we watch
• 15:43
  these things so much. It's just in our blood now,
• 15:45
  isn't it? That's right, can.
• 15:46
  You imagine a time now when Doctor Who wouldn't be in your
• 15:51
  life that you just said that's things you like.
• 15:52
  What that? You know, you do wonder what you
• 15:54
  do with yourself, don't you? Obviously I'll find something
• 15:59
  else there, I suppose. I hope.
• 16:00
  But. Where would we be if we didn't
• 16:02
  get up in the morning, open up Twitter, and get really angry
• 16:05
  about some ridiculous opinion about Doctor Who?
• 16:07
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Let's not go there.
• 16:11
  Jesus Christ. Well, look, should we go in and
• 16:14
  watch episode 1 and you can tell me all the reasons why this is
• 16:19
  an absolute banger. We've got some questions from
• 16:22
  the hand fam. There's like a big, big welcome
• 16:24
  from everybody and I think I've gone about any questions, but
• 16:29
  I'll sort of filter them through whilst we're going through the
• 16:32
  story, all right. Right.
• 16:33
  OK, no problem at all. Ready for this?
• 16:35
  Yeah. Well, do you want to count?
• 16:37
  Listen. I can do that for you, right?
• 16:40
  You ready? 321 go.
• 16:46
  Honestly, you're such a natural it feels like you've been doing
• 16:48
  it for years. Oh, thank you very much.
• 16:50
  Talking about Doctor Who's the easiest thing in the world
• 16:53
  though, let's be honest. Wow, that's right.
• 16:57
  Turn that down a bit. This.
• 16:59
  Title sequence. A lot of people tell me it's
• 17:02
  their favourites. Yeah.
• 17:04
  Yours. I do actually prefer the PERT
• 17:08
  revolution on that. Oh, what?
• 17:09
  The one where he's sort of. Standing.
• 17:10
  Yeah, yeah, he looks like he's got funny legs, but you.
• 17:14
  Go flying up the vortex there and what is occurring here?
• 17:18
  Well, they're all hanging on to the doctor's ring, aren't they?
• 17:20
  They. Are yes, and heading towards
• 17:24
  this incredibly phallic space station.
• 17:27
  Yeah. Wow, that's good, isn't it?
• 17:29
  So, yeah, So I mean, this was quite clever because it's a
• 17:33
  reuse of sets, isn't it? So you know that sort of kept
• 17:37
  the cost down for them in. Terms of budget.
• 17:39
  It was a very like savvy move. I was surprised it wasn't.
• 17:42
  It didn't happen again. No, I mean, I mean, it was a
• 17:46
  genius idea really, wasn't it? Just a bit of redressing.
• 17:49
  The only other time I can think of it being done is Flux all
• 17:53
  those years later where they had the sets that went across the
• 17:56
  the whole season, you know? Yes, that's right.
• 17:58
  Yeah. But now did I notice that the
• 18:02
  ark was shot on film? Just saying because I could have
• 18:05
  sworn in the ark in space it was shot on video.
• 18:07
  I thought it was shot on video. Yeah, that that looked like
• 18:10
  film. Didn't it looks a lot nicer,
• 18:12
  doesn't it? On.
• 18:14
  That's right. Haven't they done this as a CGI1
• 18:17
  on the box set? Or is that on the arc in space?
• 18:19
  Yeah. It was a really early one,
• 18:21
  wasn't it? Yeah.
• 18:22
  Or was it ARC? No, I think they've done both.
• 18:25
  I think they've done both. Oh, they've done both right, OK.
• 18:27
  Yeah. Oh, here we go.
• 18:28
  Look, dead bodies. You know that body there looks
• 18:32
  like a person, but in a minute their bodies look a lot like
• 18:37
  mannequins. Yes, you're right.
• 18:40
  I I think that one is a person, isn't it?
• 18:43
  Did you notice as a child or did you just think that was because
• 18:46
  as a kid I was sold? No, no, no, I didn't notice at
• 18:50
  all. I mean, a lot of these things
• 18:51
  you don't kind of notice until somebody tells you anyway, do
• 18:54
  you? But.
• 18:55
  Oh, I do have a question for you myself, actually.
• 18:57
  What the hell happened to the time ring when it just vanished
• 18:59
  there? I assume it went back to Where
• 19:04
  did you come from? You gave them Oh.
• 19:06
  It was the Time Lord, wasn't it? In. 00 in the Dalek.
• 19:10
  Genesis is the. Dalek.
• 19:10
  Yeah. So I should assume it just went
• 19:12
  back to him. Did it?
• 19:12
  Really? I don't know.
• 19:13
  Fair enough. Yes.
• 19:15
  Yes, they are mannequins. Look, you can see quite clearly
• 19:18
  they are, can't you? No, I think it's just really
• 19:20
  intense rigor mortis that makes them look like mannequins, you
• 19:24
  know? What do you think of these
• 19:27
  redressed? Because like, there's a lot more
• 19:30
  dark isn't it from compared to? Yeah, yeah, it looks a bit more
• 19:34
  grim. It does.
• 19:35
  I mean, because it's sort of set in the future rather than being
• 19:39
  really futuristic. It looks like they reverted back
• 19:41
  and it's gone really sort of more electristic and sort of
• 19:44
  grey, isn't it? So what is it now?
• 19:46
  So in the arc of space, it was obviously a space arc for all of
• 19:49
  humanity. Now it's.
• 19:51
  It's an, isn't it? A warning station?
• 19:56
  It's like a sort of lighthouse in space, isn't it?
• 19:58
  It's. And are we back in time?
• 20:01
  No, we're forward in time, aren't we?
• 20:02
  You wouldn't think I'd watch this loads of times, would you?
• 20:05
  Do. I yeah, No, no, I'm sure it's
• 20:06
  forward in time. I'm sure I'll be wrong.
• 20:08
  Somebody to tell us, anyway. Yeah, now the one thing I must
• 20:13
  talk about is the cast in this talk about a prestige cast.
• 20:17
  Really good cast, isn't it? I mean, I'm not sure who this
• 20:19
  fellow is looking at the screens right now, but you've got Good
• 20:24
  grief, The man from Sees of Death.
• 20:26
  Oh. Ronald Lee Hunt, you've got,
• 20:28
  he's not got his underpants on the outside doesn't.
• 20:31
  No, The man from Mind of Evil. Oh.
• 20:34
  William Marlow. William Marlow, Obviously.
• 20:37
  Michael Wisher. Of course.
• 20:40
  Oh, David Collins. Sorry.
• 20:42
  Isn't he in this Kevin Stoney? Oh, yes, yes.
• 20:46
  Yeah, man, that is an amazing gasp.
• 20:49
  It is. I mean, it seems a bit of a
• 20:50
  shame to have Kevin Stoney under that sort of mast, but.
• 20:55
  Yeah, Oh yeah, we'll get to the Vogans.
• 20:56
  Jesus, I love this Weasley fella.
• 21:00
  Kelman. Yeah, yeah, because he was in
• 21:02
  the first episode like 7, wasn't he?
• 21:04
  Oh, was. He, yes, he when Blake goes down
• 21:09
  to the to the meeting of the dissidents, I think he's the one
• 21:13
  who betrays them to the Federation.
• 21:16
  OK. So.
• 21:18
  I think was he was he big on another sci-fi show as.
• 21:20
  Well, yeah, it's a UFO, I think. Thank you.
• 21:23
  I feel as if I don't know anything today.
• 21:25
  Thanks for answering all these questions.
• 21:28
  But I, I always feel with Kelman, it's a bit like, listen,
• 21:34
  later on in the 80s in that you have somebody who's portrayed as
• 21:37
  a villain for most of the story, and then it turns out that
• 21:42
  actually, no, they're a good guy.
• 21:44
  But it makes absolutely no sense when the twist is revealed
• 21:47
  because they've behaved so ghastly.
• 21:50
  I mean, The thing is he wiped everybody out.
• 21:54
  So he's not that great, is he? He's a benevolent murderer, You
• 21:58
  know, the sort of person you want to be killed by.
• 22:03
  But like, as a kid, were you just sucked into this straight
• 22:05
  away? The virus.
• 22:06
  The bodies. Yeah, I just loved it.
• 22:09
  And I mean, it's just so sort of, I mean, yeah, it's just
• 22:14
  really grim, isn't it? And but, you know, I just like,
• 22:18
  like the whole setting. Oh, here we go.
• 22:20
  It's a dumb, isn't it? Yeah, Oh God.
• 22:21
  Oh no. They put up the.
• 22:22
  Strategic. Oh, really?
• 22:23
  One at the front. That's one at the front.
• 22:25
  Do you know what? When I was watching this back, I
• 22:28
  remembered a bit I loved the most because I tried to copy it
• 22:31
  at home. You know when Tom Baker's going
• 22:33
  across the room on the door of the cupboard?
• 22:36
  Yeah, I so love doing that in my room, pretending that the floor
• 22:39
  was electrified. I did throw that myself, but I
• 22:43
  pulled the door off so. Yeah, I think my cupboards fell
• 22:46
  over a couple of times, but I was like, what are you doing?
• 22:49
  I'm like nothing. Oh, this was great as well.
• 22:54
  When his door gets his hands get stuck in the door.
• 22:56
  That's right, yeah. Harry gets the blame for it,
• 22:59
  doesn't he? Harry, always.
• 23:00
  Harry gets the blame for everything.
• 23:02
  Oh no. Well, as he says later in the
• 23:04
  episode. He's an imbecile.
• 23:09
  Harry Sullivan. He's an imbecile.
• 23:13
  Do you think Tom is like there? Because I, I've always thought
• 23:19
  in 12 there's a couple of stories where I can see he's
• 23:22
  still, he's feeling his way in. I think in Arc in Space and
• 23:25
  Genesis he's absolutely there. But the other three, I think he
• 23:29
  feels a bit tentative. Oh, right, I kind of.
• 23:33
  I feel he's there with this one. I mean, I think he pretty much
• 23:36
  hit the floor running to. I mean, obviously robots just is
• 23:41
  like a pervy story, isn't it? Yeah, but it's it's real good
• 23:45
  fun. Oh, here we go.
• 23:47
  The hell is that? Good grief.
• 23:49
  I mean, did they not look back at what I saw Matt looked like
• 23:52
  previously? I don't know.
• 23:54
  So I've got a Hoover attachment that looks a bit like that side
• 23:56
  of. It Oh do you?
• 23:58
  Do you run around the house with it on your neck?
• 23:59
  Yeah, well, no, I, I mean, I was known when I was a kid to sort
• 24:03
  of suck up my mum's neck, you know?
• 24:04
  Like not. Not like that with a Hoover
• 24:06
  attachment, you know. Yeah.
• 24:09
  Of course. Oh God, now we're on location.
• 24:12
  Oh look, wookey hole. I mean, this is some lovely
• 24:14
  occasion work, isn't? It it's the band going.
• 24:17
  Can anyone hear me? Have you been to Wookey Hole?
• 24:23
  I have been to Wookie Hall, yes. Have you been to?
• 24:25
  Wookie Hall. I haven't, no, because I'm
• 24:27
  scared I'd play Revenge of the Side Men too much.
• 24:30
  I mean, it's so recognizable. I mean, is it?
• 24:33
  Like I all the pictures I see of it, it just looks really creepy
• 24:37
  down there. It is quite creepy down there.
• 24:39
  I like it with different lights. So it's sort of.
• 24:42
  And they do the story of the Witch of, Oh yeah, Wookie Hole,
• 24:46
  which is the famous story that Michael Bryant always tells,
• 24:48
  isn't. It oh, what is it?
• 24:50
  That they dressed it up or something, didn't they?
• 24:52
  Yeah. And I, I think that's why this,
• 24:55
  like, nearly drowned. Is that right?
• 24:57
  And did you hear the story about the script about the 2 pages of
• 25:01
  the script that's in her autobiography?
• 25:03
  So and she swears it's true. I've only listened to the audio
• 25:06
  version. It's Carriage on reading it that
• 25:10
  there was 2 pages of script that Ian, Marta and Elizabeth Slayden
• 25:14
  rehearsed and they said to Michael, when are we, We can't
• 25:19
  go. We've still got 2 pages of the
• 25:21
  script to do Michael, but now we've done everything.
• 25:22
  What are you talking about? And then they looked in the
• 25:24
  script again, and this scene that they'd rehearsed was
• 25:27
  nowhere to be seen. Well, spooky goings on it.
• 25:30
  Didn't exist. I mean, it sounds like bullshit,
• 25:32
  don't it? But it's a good story.
• 25:34
  It's a good story. Are you?
• 25:39
  Now here's a question I'd love to know the answer to.
• 25:42
  When approaching a Doctor Who story, are you more interested
• 25:47
  in the regulars and how they fit into the story, or does your
• 25:52
  interest sort of fall towards the guest characters first The.
• 25:55
  People you don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I, I tend to
• 26:01
  like to see the regulars because you, I, I when particularly when
• 26:04
  I was a kid and he used to sit there like, no, I can't.
• 26:06
  When's the Doctor coming on? When's the Doctor coming on?
• 26:08
  You know, so Revelation of the Daleks was a bit disappointing.
• 26:12
  Season 20 so you must have been quite disappointing.
• 26:16
  But no. But I mean, the guest characters
• 26:18
  make it as well. I mean, it's like you can
• 26:21
  believe these people have been there for a long time.
• 26:25
  You know they are tired. Yeah, like I, I think like,
• 26:29
  that's the idea, isn't it? Is that the They've lost a lot
• 26:32
  of people. They're exhausted, but you could
• 26:35
  mistake that for the actors looking a little bit bored.
• 26:39
  Maybe. I mean, why could you be bored
• 26:43
  doing this? I mean.
• 26:45
  Cybermen, you know, alien planets machine.
• 26:48
  Guns, yeah, you see, always used to like an actual rather than a
• 26:52
  ray gun. Used to like a machine gun.
• 26:54
  There's just something. Visceral about it isn't there.
• 26:57
  That's right. Right, come on now I need you to
• 27:00
  create a convincing argument about the Vogons.
• 27:03
  Wow, I can't. I mean, I all think I do in
• 27:07
  Shakespeare, don't they? What do you mean devour?
• 27:12
  I think Philip Hinchcliffe is a bit down on their performances,
• 27:15
  aren't isn't he? I seem to think he thinks
• 27:18
  they're sort of overdoing it slightly.
• 27:21
  I wonder if he's forgotten who's under that Latex?
• 27:25
  You know. Now who?
• 27:27
  Hang on, this is Michael Wisher with the with the cough, isn't
• 27:29
  it? With the hanky.
• 27:30
  Yeah. So yeah, I'm trying to work out
• 27:37
  who the other one is. I think that's David Collins,
• 27:39
  isn't it? David Collins and Michael
• 27:41
  Wisher. You can tell David Collins
• 27:42
  because he sort of has an air of arrogance about him.
• 27:44
  He sort of walks. Yeah, my skyscraper.
• 27:49
  OK. And Kevin Stoney turns up later,
• 27:50
  doesn't he? Yeah.
• 27:52
  Why is the Gallifrey symbol on the wall?
• 27:57
  Well, that's a good question, but I mean that haven't been
• 27:59
  established had it so they so you know, I mean this could be
• 28:05
  well could be any number of reasons, couldn't there?
• 28:07
  Has Eddie Big Finish or Doctor Who book retroactively tried to
• 28:13
  explain why the seal of the High Council is there?
• 28:17
  Not that I know of, but I mean, I, I guess it's a good, it's a
• 28:20
  good, it's a good bit of design. So worth using again.
• 28:25
  Paul, can I ask you, have you ever been attacked by an insane
• 28:29
  poison carrying Hoover attachment?
• 28:32
  Not recently, no. But I mean, I mean this, this is
• 28:36
  really hilarious, isn't it? Because, you know, he's sort of
• 28:39
  trying to pull it off, hold it on at the same time.
• 28:42
  I think Liz Slaton does it brilliantly though.
• 28:44
  I was. Quite impressed.
• 28:45
  You buy that, don't you? I think what she might have said
• 28:48
  to him though, can you just don't have my hands in short and
• 28:51
  then I can just do it, you know. So it's an extreme close up on
• 28:55
  her being attacked. That's right.
• 28:58
  I mean, it's quite it's quite nice, isn't it?
• 28:59
  When they get infected, they all the sort of glowing veins, yes.
• 29:04
  What's that called? Isn't it a thing where they show
• 29:07
  you something on from behind the camera and it makes it glow a
• 29:11
  bit? Bit like the Sylvan Emesis.
• 29:14
  And the Arrow, and the Exelon City as well.
• 29:17
  Oh, we. Oh yes, because Bilal flashes,
• 29:20
  doesn't he? I'm going to make a guess and
• 29:22
  now you tell me if I'm way off. Is it called front axial
• 29:25
  projection? Yeah, I think that's right
• 29:27
  actually. Wow, something did go in that's.
• 29:29
  Great. Wow, that's brilliant.
• 29:30
  I mean. They still haven't met anyone
• 29:35
  yet. No, no, they're just all right.
• 29:41
  So. Oh yeah, of course they went for
• 29:42
  the tarts. Aren't they all?
• 29:44
  Right, Paul, I told you, you had a lot of questions to get
• 29:47
  through. I'm.
• 29:47
  Going to. OK, here we go.
• 29:48
  One, Are you ready now? So our Oscar Groucho, that's
• 29:51
  Liam, who did his first commentary the other day, says
• 29:55
  Revenge of the Cybermen sits between two startling iterations
• 29:59
  of the Cybermen. So what's that?
• 30:01
  The invasion and. Shock.
• 30:04
  What do you think this adds to the law?
• 30:07
  And if we are to accept that this didn't resonate with the
• 30:10
  production team at the time, what lessons are learnt here
• 30:13
  that factor towards their glorious 80s renaissance?
• 30:17
  Right. Well, I, I think obviously the
• 30:21
  main thing that here is that they've decided that gold will,
• 30:28
  well, kill a Cyberman, which I think is actually a bit of a
• 30:31
  mistake in retrospect, because after this, it's everybody's
• 30:34
  answer. It's just to rub a bit of gold
• 30:36
  in their chest, isn't it? Well, it just seems.
• 30:38
  To me that everyone the Doctor hangs out with has got gold on
• 30:41
  them from that point on. That's right.
• 30:43
  It's handy, isn't it? Yeah.
• 30:45
  And I mean, yeah, I, I, I like to look at this as like just a
• 30:50
  bit of an interlude between 2:00.
• 30:54
  I mean, what, what could the production team take for it?
• 30:57
  Well, we don't really want Camp Cyber then, do we?
• 31:00
  Well, I mean, oh, that's what I love.
• 31:01
  That well, you know, that's. That's me.
• 31:03
  That's me. Yeah.
• 31:04
  I don't think I speak for the general Doctor Who population.
• 31:07
  You do wonder whether anybody actually watched a side man's
• 31:11
  story, Price, right? Yeah.
• 31:14
  And of course, I mean, those. He's got Jerry Davis on it.
• 31:17
  I mean, clearly he didn't write it.
• 31:19
  It's a Robert Holmes rewrite, isn't it?
• 31:23
  And I think the bits that he is in there, he was still writing
• 31:26
  it like it was in the 60s. He got a letter, didn't he?
• 31:31
  Isn't that Robert Holmes book? He got a letter basically
• 31:33
  saying, Jerry, things have moved on a bit since you were writing
• 31:36
  it. I'm going to have to do some
• 31:37
  rewriting. Yeah, yeah.
• 31:40
  I mean, I think they they chose sleek down the design, you know,
• 31:44
  of shock because they're very sort of puffy and.
• 31:48
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, I quite
• 31:53
  like the the guns firing from the head.
• 31:55
  I think that's that's quite fun. I should have cared.
• 31:58
  That shouldn't. I yeah, I mean, that was really
• 32:00
  quite good, wasn't it? I mean, so I mean, what is that
• 32:03
  bit on the top of their head used for normally in other
• 32:07
  stores? Is it a sensor?
• 32:09
  Who knows? Yeah, triangulate where you are.
• 32:12
  Some sort of SAT NAV? Yeah, yeah, probably.
• 32:15
  Wouldn't that SAT NAV Yeah, you. Can sort of make up your own
• 32:18
  mind there, can't you? Oh, I love all this espionage
• 32:22
  stuff with the brush. Oh, Oh yeah, that's quite good.
• 32:24
  And. That's quite nice the the CSO.
• 32:29
  Oh, is it? I mean, for the time, because
• 32:32
  you weren't, you wouldn't have been seeing a lot like that on
• 32:35
  TV, no. That's right.
• 32:36
  I mean, we look at that and ask nothing, but I mean that's
• 32:38
  probably quite state-of-the-art at the time.
• 32:41
  Jack, what's really funny, right, is that when they did
• 32:45
  Dalek in 2005, it's this cyber head, isn't it that.
• 32:50
  I think it yes. Is it the?
• 32:51
  Invasion. Is it the invasion of this?
• 32:53
  No, no, it's, isn't it this one because he's got the black?
• 32:56
  Oh yeah, he does, hasn't it? Hasn't he got like the black
• 32:59
  attachments? That's right, kids, if you like
• 33:01
  the Daleks, go back and watch Revenge of the Cybermen.
• 33:04
  It's a banger. So was this the first one where
• 33:06
  they actually had a cyber leader or, or distinguishable cyber
• 33:10
  leader, I think, Right. Yeah, like a different colour.
• 33:13
  Yeah, I mean, we had the cyber controller with his bowl with
• 33:18
  head, didn't we? But.
• 33:19
  Yes. I won't say what that looks
• 33:23
  like, but yes. Yeah, and apparently it's all
• 33:25
  glowed, didn't it, when it was if you could see it in colour.
• 33:29
  I think it was supposed to be a brain, wasn't it?
• 33:31
  But. Yeah.
• 33:32
  Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think the the
• 33:35
  cyber head design here is great. It's just, I just feel like they
• 33:39
  look like they're in bomber jackets and sort of puffy.
• 33:41
  Stuff yeah, it's not great The the actual suit looks a bit sort
• 33:46
  of I don't know, I can't quite I.
• 33:48
  Mean what? Are all those tubes supposed to
• 33:50
  be doing? Hydraulic fluid or something?
• 33:52
  Yeah, that's right. Well, look, I've got another
• 33:56
  question for you here. Yeah, go for.
• 33:58
  It ray hooks, which is the name I don't recognise.
• 34:01
  Hello Trey. Would the story be better if it
• 34:06
  was more clear what the two factions of the Vogans are?
• 34:11
  Oh, it's quite clear, isn't it? Shooting at each other.
• 34:14
  Yeah, well, that's right. You got, you got, Yeah, I I feel
• 34:16
  that's fairly clear. You got the two factions, you
• 34:20
  got the ones that like the highs up.
• 34:22
  So then you got like the rebels, haven't you?
• 34:24
  Do you think he means like if they you know, like the the the
• 34:27
  deons and the thingy and the savants from Meg loss?
• 34:30
  You know, one's got stupid blonde wig and the other ones
• 34:34
  have all got. Yeah, yeah, I, I guess you, you
• 34:39
  could be a bit confused about who is who, but I mean, now it's
• 34:43
  sort of shooting at each other so.
• 34:45
  I think Sarah and Harry don't care, they just want to get out
• 34:47
  of. There they do.
• 34:51
  Oh boy, yeah. The regulars haven't seemed to
• 34:55
  done a lot yet, do they? Like, well, I mean, Sarah is
• 34:59
  about to do an awful lot in a minute, do you?
• 35:01
  Know Oh yes, I mean, we're looking forward to that, aren't
• 35:03
  we? Oh, Paul, our lovely Joe Short.
• 35:07
  Yeah, she says hello and welcome.
• 35:11
  Thank you very much, Joe. And her question is why are the
• 35:15
  Doctor and Sarah so horrible to Harry in this story?
• 35:18
  That's my first question. Right.
• 35:21
  Well, that's because he keeps buggering everything up.
• 35:22
  He nearly took the doctor. He nearly took the doctor's hand
• 35:26
  off, didn't he? She goes on to say, admittedly
• 35:30
  he says she has fat ankles and does almost kill the doctor with
• 35:34
  rocks, but who hasn't done that? That's true.
• 35:37
  Anybody could do that. Could.
• 35:40
  You're quite right, Joe. Oh.
• 35:43
  Sorry, you mean that joke, not me.
• 35:44
  No, no, no, no, no, you're always right.
• 35:46
  But no, I was talking about the lovely Joe Short.
• 35:48
  You must know by now I'm never right.
• 35:52
  Jesus, Paul, did you take the shape of that cyber ship?
• 35:56
  I did. It's a bit unfortunate, isn't
• 35:58
  it? I mean, there's anything far out
• 36:01
  the end. I don't missiles, I think.
• 36:05
  I mean, I mean, that's definitely been built by a
• 36:07
  bloke, right? Yeah.
• 36:09
  I mean, do you think that they try to do these to see if they
• 36:12
  can get them in under the wire? So.
• 36:17
  Surely the bloke who designed the verve which he must have
• 36:19
  thought. Let's see if we can get this
• 36:20
  past. JMC Jesus.
• 36:22
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, whoever invented that,
• 36:25
  You know that master detector from the Time Monster?
• 36:29
  Oh yeah, knocking balls. I mean, he was taking a piss as
• 36:31
  well. Sometimes under tissue
• 36:34
  compression eliminator. Yeah.
• 36:36
  I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 36:39
  But when I was a kid, I didn't see it.
• 36:41
  Well, no, no, you wouldn't. But I mean, you look at it now,
• 36:44
  you think, oh, somebody who just happened to laugh and they were
• 36:46
  just trying to get that. Yeah, it does it, but all cyber
• 36:50
  ships before this now they what when I like in the moon base.
• 36:53
  Oh, they were like saucers weren't.
• 36:55
  They they were saucers, weren't well on paper plates.
• 36:57
  Really. Weren't they paper plates?
• 36:58
  Down on strings, yeah, yeah. What were they in the invasion?
• 37:04
  Didn't we see them in the invasion?
• 37:05
  Yeah, there's a fleet, you know, Zoe sends the bomb up.
• 37:07
  Doesn't. She Oh, right, Fleet, did you
• 37:09
  know? I can't remember what I think.
• 37:11
  They're just sort of circles. Yeah.
• 37:14
  And then Michael O'Brien comes along and says, well, now
• 37:16
  they're going to fly around in a massive cock.
• 37:18
  Well, yeah, but I mean, why not? Bloody hell.
• 37:23
  So this is. 20 minutes in, Paul. Well, this has flown.
• 37:25
  Past. Yeah, it's going well, isn't it?
• 37:27
  It's space-time Telegraph. I'll see there.
• 37:31
  Yeah. Oh, he's, yeah, He's got gold
• 37:34
  dust. That's right.
• 37:37
  How precisely does gold clog up aside man's breathing unit?
• 37:41
  Is it because it's a soft metal and it sort of when it gets it
• 37:44
  goes into their chest, it warms up and it sort of, but I mean
• 37:47
  they don't breathe, do they? So I don't know.
• 37:49
  So it sort of melts in there. Yeah, I think what?
• 37:52
  That's the first time it's made sense to me.
• 37:54
  Thank you. Oh well, I mean, I don't know, I
• 37:57
  just made it up burning. Oh man, this is so great when he
• 38:01
  electrifies the floor. Oh, this is great, because he
• 38:03
  sort of jumps back onto the bed, doesn't he?
• 38:07
  Now, have you ever been in a position like this?
• 38:09
  You know, under somebody's bed, someone else walks in.
• 38:13
  You're like, oh for God's sakes, how am I going to get out of
• 38:15
  here? No, only in a wardrobe.
• 38:17
  No, a wardrobe. Oh, really?
• 38:20
  But that's another story. We don't talk about help me off,
• 38:22
  Mike. I've been I've been under a few
• 38:26
  beds, but they they were never electrified.
• 38:29
  No, but I think so. What does it not electrify
• 38:33
  instantly? Will he be dead?
• 38:36
  Well, that's right. But he's, you see.
• 38:38
  It even gives you a warning by all the smoke coming along the
• 38:40
  floor. Yeah.
• 38:41
  Oh, here we go. It's.
• 38:44
  Kind of exciting. I like like when you're 4.
• 38:48
  Wow, I'm quite impressed with this.
• 38:50
  Who who couldn't play this at four years old?
• 38:53
  Jumping on the bed, pretending. That's right, Yeah.
• 38:56
  There's lots to do there, isn't it?
• 38:58
  Tell me, did you used to play Doctor Who at school?
• 39:01
  I used to play Doctor Who with my friend Paul Quinn, who
• 39:04
  podcasts with me. The legendary Paul Quinn.
• 39:06
  That's right. He used to tie me up in the
• 39:08
  chair. I was the companion then, mind
• 39:10
  the sign up, and he was always the monster or the villain.
• 39:14
  So he used to fret me a lot. But it was great fun.
• 39:18
  Did you make up your own villains or were you using
• 39:20
  villains from the TV? Was he ever the master, for
• 39:22
  example? Yeah, I think he definitely did
• 39:24
  a roll call all the Time Lords, maybe even the Ronnie a couple
• 39:27
  of times. Yeah, yeah, I made that sound
• 39:30
  really dodgy. It was totally innocent.
• 39:33
  Well, yeah, I believe you used. To play Doctor Who.
• 39:38
  I did. I mean, unfortunately, I mean
• 39:41
  when I got old, I didn't really have a lot of Doctor Who friends
• 39:44
  because by the time I wanted to talk about it, it wasn't overly
• 39:48
  popular. And if you sort of mentioned at
• 39:49
  my school that you're a bit of a doctrine fan, you still have a
• 39:52
  really good chance of getting duffed up.
• 39:54
  So. Oh.
• 39:55
  Was it that sort of school? No, but I mean, it just wasn't
• 39:59
  popular, was it? I mean, you know, if you during
• 40:02
  the McCoy era, it was a bit of a kind, you know?
• 40:04
  What? I used to hide all my stuff when
• 40:06
  friends would come round. I would literally hide it all in
• 40:08
  a cupboard. Yeah.
• 40:09
  So I had like serious Doctor Who shame when I was very young.
• 40:16
  God, Sarah's been eaten. Yeah, she's been attacked by a
• 40:20
  Hoover attachment. Doesn't she do like fear and
• 40:24
  that she does that so well? She is, she's a good all
• 40:27
  rounder. She can do.
• 40:28
  I mean, that's why she got the part, isn't it?
• 40:30
  Because she could do fear so well, you know, and confidence
• 40:35
  and. What was the Barrierlet thing?
• 40:37
  He said. We want people that are
• 40:39
  charismatic enough that you want to watch them, even if the story
• 40:42
  isn't as interesting as it could be.
• 40:43
  That's right. I mean, he got it bang on with.
• 40:46
  Her. And she does that in space,
• 40:47
  doesn't she? Shoes.
• 40:49
  I think she's great this season. My favorite bit is do you
• 40:52
  remember when she comes out of the tube in arc in space and
• 40:55
  goes, oh, conned again? You're a brute.
• 41:00
  Absolutely Fabulous. My God, that absolutely shot
• 41:03
  boy. Well, how do you think that does
• 41:04
  as a as a story set up? Yeah, I think, I think that does
• 41:09
  really well. I make sure you make sure you
• 41:10
  want to come back and see more, don't you?
• 41:12
  I mean, that's a great, that's a great cliffhanger with Sarah
• 41:15
  being attacked. And just a little bit of the
• 41:17
  Cybermen to entice you. Yeah, that's right.
• 41:20
  So you're going to be there next week to see it?
• 41:22
  I mean, all I saw them doing really was a bit of yoga with
• 41:25
  their arms. I don't know what's going on in
• 41:27
  the space. They don't even talk delay in
• 41:28
  episode 1. No, I don't think so.
• 41:31
  No, but they're they're going to be in force in Episode 2, so.
• 41:34
  I think, OK, this is going to be my first serious criticism.
• 41:38
  I think a savvier director would have made that first appearance
• 41:42
  more of like a shock moment. I think about shock when they're
• 41:46
  bursting out of the tubes and things like that, You know, just
• 41:50
  to suddenly cut to the ship and then just sort of, I don't know
• 41:53
  what he's doing with his arm, but.
• 41:55
  Yeah, I mean, actually, to be honest, it'd been a better
• 41:59
  cliffhanger if it had been a bit where they bursting through the.
• 42:02
  I mean, obviously it's all to do with timings, but I think that
• 42:05
  would have been a great cliffhanger when they just all
• 42:07
  burst through the door. The second cliffhanger for this
• 42:10
  story I think is great though, when they come out and start
• 42:14
  shooting at the doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because.
• 42:18
  Paul, I'm going to give you one last question before we go out
• 42:21
  this episode, OK? And unfortunately, it's your
• 42:24
  first root question coming from Martin Parsons.
• 42:29
  OK. And he says, what is the
• 42:31
  appropriate reaction when you appear to be headed towards the
• 42:35
  biggest bang in history? That's quite exciting, isn't it?
• 42:43
  Well, we all enjoy a good bang, don't we?
• 42:46
  Not a space station going into our planet.
• 42:49
  Oh, we're. Talking.
• 42:50
  Oh, sorry. Oh, what were you talking about?
• 42:51
  No, no. Oh, sorry.
• 42:52
  No, I was talking about space station.
• 42:54
  This is APG podcast, you know. I I do apologise, I know you're
• 42:59
  usually full of decorum and taste.
• 43:01
  I thought I was on safe territory.
• 43:04
  Review Paul. You know, I'm sorry, lusty bunch
• 43:07
  that normally. Come on.
• 43:10
  Oh, come on. Shall I do one more?
• 43:12
  I mean, I wasn't lying when I said I've got a lot.
• 43:15
  I beg your pardon? My God, I've.
• 43:19
  I'm overwhelmed. PlayStation Gamer 187.
• 43:24
  Sense. Yo-yo yo, I think.
• 43:28
  Oh, welcome to the ham fam. All right, OK.
• 43:31
  That's how he starts. I mean, he's been a part of it
• 43:33
  for a while. PlayStation game of 187.
• 43:35
  But OK, this is the best commit. Oh, he's now being very nice
• 43:39
  about the ham fam. Oh good.
• 43:40
  Lots of love, Mickey taking and a dusting of Smart too.
• 43:45
  No. Not me.
• 43:46
  Him. Can you hear him?
• 43:48
  No, heaven forbid he. Does say I've always loved this
• 43:52
  story. Was one of the ones I watched as
• 43:54
  a kid on VHS. Big.
• 43:57
  Oh, he hasn't got a question. It's all just a comment.
• 44:00
  All right, Big up the Wookiee Hole cave crew.
• 44:04
  What does that mean? You want to go for what?
• 44:08
  The big up, the Wookiee Hole cave crew.
• 44:11
  And then he does this with his fingers.
• 44:13
  OK, Yeah. Well, thank you, PlayStation 7.
• 44:19
  That's good to know, isn't it? I mean, thanks for saying nice
• 44:22
  things about the Ham fan, but and for welcoming Paul as well.
• 44:26
  All right, this will be the last question.
• 44:28
  David Gillespie Pratt. Yeah, we'll get a.
• 44:31
  Sense there's a very good YouTube channel by the way.
• 44:34
  Yeah, this will be a smart question.
• 44:36
  Sorry. PlayStation game at 107.
• 44:38
  Was this a sensible choice for the 1st Doctor Who story to be
• 44:42
  released on VHS? Wasn't it?
• 44:48
  Didn't they ask everybody at Longley what they'd like to see
• 44:51
  as the this VH, the next VHS release?
• 44:57
  And everybody went to him with the sidemen, didn't they?
• 44:59
  But of course it didn't exist. So they thought, Oh well, let's
• 45:03
  do Revenge of the Sidemen. It almost sounds the same the.
• 45:06
  Next best thing? You know.
• 45:10
  And then didn't they slap the Earth shock sideman on the cover
• 45:12
  as well? That's.
• 45:13
  Right. Yes, and Tom Baker in the season
• 45:15
  18 costume. Yeah, so the version I got must
• 45:18
  be version 2 then, because that abnormal Tom and the bright side
• 45:22
  man on it. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:24
  Yeah, yeah. See, like I could never have
• 45:27
  told you that this bit with Elizabeth Slaydon was the first
• 45:31
  cliffhanger. Back in the day.
• 45:33
  I just thought, Doctor Who, it all just came in one lump.
• 45:37
  That's right. And actually, I was a bit
• 45:38
  annoyed when they started putting the cliffhangers back in
• 45:40
  because, you know. Stop breaking up the action, for
• 45:43
  God's sake. Indeed.
• 45:45
  Well, look, Paul, Sarah is in deep peril, the Doctor is also
• 45:51
  in deep peril. And Harry, well, he's around
• 45:54
  somewhere. Would you like to head into
• 45:56
  episode 2 and find out what the hell is happening?
• 46:00
  I would love to do that. I'll cut it there.