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Off Record: Cancer Scam Continued · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Knife Off Record. I'm Hannah Smith. I'm
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: patient eaton. This week, we have a follow up episode
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to last week's interview, and if you haven't listened to
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: last week's episode, pause and go listen to that one first,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: otherwise you won't have any idea what we're talking about.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: This week, we're going to cover another fraud case related
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  Speaker 1: to the death of Toledo officer Anthony Dia, and then
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about yet another victim of Lisa Tickermeier,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: who has a totally different story than.
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  Speaker 2: D Don't forget to follow us on Instagram and Blue
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Sky at the Knife podcast. You can also email us
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: at the Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com. And if you're
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: enjoying the podcast, you can rate and review us on
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, which helps us a lot, so thank you.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Great. Let's get into the episode. Okay, so before we
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: get into the new fraud and the new victim, let's
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: just give you a little reminder of what last week's
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: episode was about, since it's been about a week probably
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: since you've listened. So last week our episode was called
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  Speaker 1: Cancer scam, and we interviewed a woman named Dee Lynn.
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  Speaker 1: She lives in Toledo, Ohio, and is really involved in
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: her community. Starting probably in twenty twenty, she started volunteering
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  Speaker 1: a lot, running fundraisers and just helping out neighbors in need.
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  Speaker 1: There was a lot of people who needed help in
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the face of COVID and losing their jobs. But then
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  Speaker 1: there were also multiple tragedies that struck their city, and
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: D got really involved helping out with that as well.
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  Speaker 2: One of those tragedies was the death of Toledo Police
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  Speaker 2: officer Anthony Dia, who was shot and killed in July
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  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, and this really rocked the entire city,
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  Speaker 2: and D and many others came together to support his
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  Speaker 2: family in the wake of his death. Through D's volunteering efforts,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: is how she met Lisa Tickdemeyer and they became friends,
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  Speaker 2: and pretty early on in their friendship, Lisa confided in
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  Speaker 2: D that she had been diagnosed with cancer with non
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Hodgkins lymphoma, and over the next year, D and the
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  Speaker 2: community supported Lisa both financially and emotionally, but it eventually
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  Speaker 2: came to light that Lisa did not have cancer. She
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  Speaker 2: was faking it the whole time, and D talks about
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  Speaker 2: sort of being suspicious that Lisa's faking cancer. But that's
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  Speaker 2: one of those things that you know, you better read
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  Speaker 2: pretty sure. I can to accuse someone before you say something.
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  Speaker 2: And eventually there was an investigation and Lisa did admit
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  Speaker 2: to investigators that she never had cancer. She tried to
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  Speaker 2: say at first that she used the money that she
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  Speaker 2: she raised for other like medical needs, but I mean
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  Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, she lied. The community raised thousands of dollars. Like
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  Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what the estimated number was, maybe
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  Speaker 1: around like twenty five thousand dollars.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in total, because it was donations given
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  Speaker 2: up fundraisers, donations given individually by people, and then there
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  Speaker 2: were also goods and services donated to her.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, people's time also, like people's like emotions. People felt
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  Speaker 1: really bad for her and like showed up for her.
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  Speaker 1: It's horrible. So on June thirteenth, twenty twenty four, Lisa
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  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to felony theft related to the cancer scheme.
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  Speaker 1: She was sentenced to six months in jail, two years
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  Speaker 1: of probation, and two hundred hours of community service, and
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  Speaker 1: ordered to pay more than twenty five thousand dollars and restitution.
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  Speaker 1: And then that was kind of like, Okay, that's wrapped up.
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  Speaker 1: But it wasn't because new information came to light after
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  Speaker 1: this case, and there was yet another case because investigators
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  Speaker 1: continued digging, and I believe, through like some forensic accounting,
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  Speaker 1: they looked into the hot cocoa fundraiser that Lisa threw.
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  Speaker 1: We talked about this in the episode Yeah last week.
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  Speaker 1: She held a fundraiser for another fallen Toledo police officer,
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  Speaker 1: Brandon Stalker, and she did a hot cocoa fundraiser that
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  Speaker 1: de attended, but she didn't turn over all of the
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  Speaker 1: money to Brandon Stalker's family. She kept some of that money,
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  Speaker 1: which is so sinister.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to do it once, awful, to do
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  Speaker 2: it twice and then not even including her cancer scheme mindful.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a totally different scheme. And so in
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  Speaker 1: August of twenty twenty five, she was charged again. She
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  Speaker 1: pled guilty to theft, a first degree misdemeanor, and received
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  Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty day jail sentence, one year probation,
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  Speaker 1: and additional community service.
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  Speaker 2: So, in her interview with d we touch on the
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  Speaker 2: name Tony Dia, who is the father of Anthony Dia,
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  Speaker 2: the police officer who was killed in July of twenty twenty.
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  Speaker 2: And Tony Dia, as we got further into researching what
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  Speaker 2: happened here, had his own fraud investigation. So I did
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  Speaker 2: some research. Channa, you have your own piece of this
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  Speaker 2: to talk about that I'm less familiar with. So we're
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  Speaker 2: going to get into it, and then after that, I'm
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  Speaker 2: going to talk about a second victim of Lisa's.
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  Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to hearing about it. I haven't heard
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  Speaker 1: a lot about his case. D did mention it, but
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  Speaker 1: we didn't have enough information to include it in the episode,
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  Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to hearing what you found. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So during our interview with Dee, she's telling us about
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  Speaker 2: all of these different times that she ran into Lisa
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  Speaker 2: at community events, and one of those events was a
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  Speaker 2: cookout that was hosted by Tony Dia, Anthony DIA's father,
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  Speaker 2: and Tony was wanting to show appreciation for local first responders.
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  Speaker 2: In this cookout that took place in twenty twenty after
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  Speaker 2: Anthony DIA's passing, was to raise money for first and
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  Speaker 2: just to show the support of the community because Tony
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  Speaker 2: so appreciated what they did for his son. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 2: you're thinking about when someone dies. Obviously there's a lot
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of different relationships that are mourning their loss. This is
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  Speaker 2: his father, like, his father has lost his son in
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  Speaker 2: this incredibly tragic way, horrible, horrible, and so naturally the
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  Speaker 2: community wanted to really rally around him. And during this cookout,
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  Speaker 2: details us that Tony mentioned to her that he wanted
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  Speaker 2: to start a nonprofit. He wanted to call it the
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  Speaker 2: Officer Anthony Dia Foundation, and the mission would be to
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  Speaker 2: provide support and assistance to all first responders in their families,
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  Speaker 2: with a focus on youth and community outreach programs. And
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  Speaker 2: so Tony does go on to establish this foundation and
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  Speaker 2: he sets up a Facebook page and starts putting together
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  Speaker 2: fundraiser auctions. One of those was a raffle and the
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  Speaker 2: Officer Anthony Dia Foundation was raffling off tickets to win
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  Speaker 2: a Harley Davidson motorcycle. Okay, the tickets were one hundred
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  Speaker 2: dollars each.
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  Speaker 1: That's kind of an expensive ticket.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you got to really be you know, saying, Okay,
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  Speaker 2: this is a great cause. Yeah, because I mean I'm
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  Speaker 2: sure you're not saying I'm gonna win this motorcycle.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like basically like, I'm donating one hundred dollars, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: you know toward this cause.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And the timing of all of this is a
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  Speaker 2: lot of financial uncertainty. Where on the heels of COVID.
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  Speaker 2: You know, this is late twenty twenty early twenty twenty one.
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  Speaker 2: So the officer Anthony Dia Foundation that Tony Dia was
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  Speaker 2: starting up and really establishing the community, was primarily gathering
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  Speaker 2: on a Facebook page. That's where he notified people about fundraisers,
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  Speaker 2: That's where people were notified about this raffle, and that's
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: where he would update people as things were kicking off.
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  Speaker 2: So suddenly the raffle is canceled and thousands of dollars
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  Speaker 2: in raffle tickets have been purchased, and the foundation doesn't
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  Speaker 2: offer much of an explanation for this cancelation of the raffle,
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  Speaker 2: but they offer a couple of options to those who
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  Speaker 2: had already purchased tickets. They say, you can have them refunded,
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  Speaker 2: you can consider it a donation, or you can hang
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  Speaker 2: on to that ticket and will put it toward a
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  Speaker 2: future raffle, and so people wanted their money back, and
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  Speaker 2: when they emailed the foundation to say, you know, I'd
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  Speaker 2: like option one, I'd like a refund, that money never
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  Speaker 2: came and months passed, and so at least one of
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  Speaker 2: those people reported the foundation to the Ohio Attorney General's office.
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  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, interesting, So that's how they first kind of
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  Speaker 1: got alerted to what Tony Dia was doing.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, and they start investigating, and they obtain two search warrants,
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  Speaker 2: one from Apple and one from Facebook because this is
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  Speaker 2: all taking place digitally, and so they put together a
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  Speaker 2: timeline of claims that Tony was making about the foundation
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  Speaker 2: that do not align with where they find that the
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  Speaker 2: money was actually going. It turns out that Tony had
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  Speaker 2: been misappropriating funds, over twenty thousand dollars spent on personal expenses.
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  Speaker 2: One report listed that Tony spent the money at gas
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  Speaker 2: station convenience stores, sent money to these are there words
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  Speaker 2: not my females? Oh boy, and also put the money
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  Speaker 2: into cryptocurrency accounts.
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  Speaker 1: Huh, so this is fraud. Yeah, it's not like he
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  Speaker 1: had a separate bank account for the nonprofit. He's just
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  Speaker 1: putting the money into his own account. I'm guessing, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: these are personal accounts.
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  Speaker 2: This is not money going where he said it was going,
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  Speaker 2: which would be to support the community and first responders.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: They also found that Tony Diaz he had sent money
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  Speaker 2: to women, and he had sent that money using apps.
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  Speaker 2: In the description was always something like a kiss face emoji.
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  Speaker 2: Like I mean, like, okay, I think they can all
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  Speaker 2: sort of interpret that for however we want. But additionally
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  Speaker 2: comes out through this investigation that the officer Anthony Dia
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  Speaker 2: Foundation was not a five oh one C three nonprofit.
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  Speaker 1: It was a Facebook page. Wow, yeah, wow, and so okay.
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  Speaker 2: Tony Dia later apologizes and says, well, I assumed that
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  Speaker 2: because I had this vision for it, that I didn't
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  Speaker 2: need to register it as a nonprofit. But it's obviously
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  Speaker 2: really misleading if you're going around asking people for money.
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  Speaker 1: And this Facebook page is since has been taken down.
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  Speaker 2: So I don't know if he used the word nonprofit,
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  Speaker 2: but that was legally what it was decided he was portraying,
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  Speaker 2: and that was certainly was the understanding of the public.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, using the word foundation, yeah, it's so synonymous
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  Speaker 1: with a five oh one C three, I think you
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  Speaker 1: would assume it's a nonprofit. Absolutely, yeah, I would never
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  Speaker 1: assume that was someone pocketing money, right, especially when you're
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  Speaker 1: talking about the kind of mission that he had behind it.
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  Speaker 1: And so he makes this Facebook post telling people that
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: he's sorry for the lack of communication and confusion, but
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  Speaker 1: that he didn't steal any of the money. He dissolves
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  Speaker 1: the foundation, but just before that, he also says, well,
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  Speaker 1: we did some good. We renovated a boxing gym, we
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  Speaker 1: sent children easter baskets, we covered funeral expenses for multiple
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  Speaker 1: families in need. But he dissolves it, he closes the
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  Speaker 1: Facebook page and he's done with the foundation, but the
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  Speaker 1: damage has been done. He's already lied and stolen money.
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  Speaker 1: So on February tenth, twenty twenty five, this took many years,
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  Speaker 1: he was finally charged in Lucas County, which is the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: same county that Lisa Tikkmayer was charged in, and he's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: charged with grand theft, a fourth degree felony, and telecommunications fraud.
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  Speaker 1: And then in March of twenty twenty five, he makes
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: his first court appearance. He's booked into jail and he's
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: released on bond. Okay, it wasn't clear like exactly what
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: was going to happen if he was going to plead
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: or go to trial. He ultimately accepted a plea deal guilty,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and was sentenced to one hundred and eighty days in
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  Speaker 1: jail plus three years probation and restitution. He expressed a
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: lot of remorse for his actions. He said, I'm very sorry.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sorry to the community that trusted me to do
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  Speaker 1: the right thing. I wanted to do the right thing,
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  Speaker 1: and I missed everything up. I'm sorry, I'm embarrassed, I'm ashamed.
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  Speaker 1: I messed everything up.
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  Speaker 2: And I think that remorse is better than no remorse.
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  Speaker 2: But when something transpires over many years and it's so
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  Speaker 2: blatantly misleading, that's pretty hard to understand. And then you
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  Speaker 2: have this aspect of the officer Anthony dia foundation. This
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  Speaker 2: is his son who dies his son like and then
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  Speaker 2: to exploit that for financial gain, it's very, very hard
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  Speaker 2: to understand.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horrible.
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  Speaker 2: It's horrible, And you and I have seen a lot
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  Speaker 2: of times how fraud can start really small and start
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  Speaker 2: to snowball, But it sounds like this started pretty early on,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: that he wasn't doing things the right way, you know,
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  Speaker 2: not registering as a nonprofit for example. Yeah, it seems
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  Speaker 2: like he was somewhat remorseful, and I want to acknowledge
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  Speaker 2: that Anthony DA's widow had no involvement with the foundation,
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  Speaker 2: not responsible, nor was she ever aware of what.
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  Speaker 1: He was doing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what I learned about Tony Dia. But
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  Speaker 2: I know you have a little bit more to share.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's also interesting to hear. I saw that
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  Speaker 1: Jamie Dia, so she's Anthony DA's widow and they have
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: two children together, made a video It's forty five minutes long.
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  Speaker 1: I watched it all, and that she posted this video
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  Speaker 1: in May of twenty twenty five. So it's interesting hearing
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: you break down the timeline. So this was after he
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: was charged, but maybe before he was sentenced. It's a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: wild video. Yeah. So she basically comes on there and says,
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  Speaker 1: I've been dealing with all of this now for like
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: at that point it had been almost five years because
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  Speaker 1: her husband was shot and killed July fourth, twenty twenty,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: and she says this activity or like some of this
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: stuff with Tony Dia starts the very next Dayly fifth,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. The very next day, that's what she says
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: in the video. She says She's been dealing with this
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: for almost five years and has been staying quiet because
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: she's kind of like just trying to keep the peace.
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  Speaker 1: She's like also a single mom and been grieving her
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: husband's death, so it's just been a lot. But she
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: said finally she wanted to come out and make this
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  Speaker 1: video because all of this fraud now is associated with
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: her late husband's name, Anthony Dia, and so she's upset
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that Tony did this and basically, like from her perspective,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: through Anthony's name like through the mud, because now this
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  Speaker 1: found with his name on it is linked to this
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: fraud case, and she's like, that's a horrible thing to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: do for her husband, who she says was a very
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: upstanding guy and deserved better than.
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  Speaker 2: That, which is exactly what we heard from d that
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: the idea was a highly respected police officer.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'll try to kind of just do the
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: highlights of this video because it was long, but she
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: talks about how, you know, the day after her husband died,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: she started to get a lot of texts from people
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: saying that they wanted to like donate things to her
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: drop off donations, and you know, she's overwhelmed and So
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: it ends up that people decided to start dropping things
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: off at Tony DIA's car lot, is how she called it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So he had some kind of business to do with vehicles,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: and people started donating and dropping off things for Jamie
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: and Jamie and Anthony's children, Tony's grandchildren at Tony DIA's
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: car lot. She knew this was happening. People would tech
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, I dropped off an envelope with some
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: money in or I dropped off you know whatever for you.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: But over the next few days and then weeks, Tony
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't say anything to her about anything being dropped off,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and he never gives any of it to her. Oh
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: my gosh.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, imagine a more vulnerable position in that moment
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: than being this like grieving widow who still has to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: be strong for your children. People want to help you
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and your own father in law. Is I mean, I
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: think we can all assume stealing what's being donated to you? Yeah,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Like how violating is that?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And she doesn't confront him about it because she's
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: like whatever, he's also grieving, Like this doesn't really matter
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: in the long run, I'm dealing with so much more
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: right now, right, now I'm trying to figure out how
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: to keep my kids okay and like live my life. Yeah.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But then eventually she says that Tony calls a family
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: meeting because maybe she had asked a few family members
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: about it or something, and Tony confronts her and says
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: that she implied that he's been stealing from her, and
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: she says, no, I just haven't seen any of the
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: donations that were dropped off for us for Anthony's family.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: People said they were giving us things, and she says
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: that at that family meeting, he looked around and said
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: something to the effect of I loved Anthony more than
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: any of you, and he would want his dad taken
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: care of. Oh my gosh. And so he makes it
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: clear that he thinks these donations are to support him,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: not Anthony's widow and his grandchildren.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: That's interesting, this is what she said. That's such a
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: wild thing to say. But it's also like, Okay, this
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: is that personality type right where you know you've done
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: something wrong, so you call the family meeting, yeah, and
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: you try to pretend like you're the one who's like,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: let's get this out open. I would never do that,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to take those head on. That's
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: like just trying to come off as innocent.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and these are his grandchildren too. Yeah, that's wow
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: another level. And I don't think that Jamie was working
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: at the time, and so she basically said in the video,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: we lost our provider. So Anthony was the family provider
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: through his work. And you know, I don't know what
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: kind of money she was given after he died. I
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: know there was a gofund me that she talks about
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: later in the video that she puts in a trust
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: for her sons. She doesn't touch it. It's in a
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: trust for them when they turn eighteen to do whatever with,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: you know, And I don't know if there's life insurance,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: there is some money for them. But at the same time,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: her whole future has changed because she was a stay
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: at home mom and now they don't have anyone in
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the family bringing in money. And that's why, you know,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: one of the reasons the community was coming together to
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: support them, But not a lot of that money was
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: reaching Jamie and the boys because Tony was taking it,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: according to Jamie's video.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Which I totally believe now knowing what we know about him.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's interesting like, I don't know that any
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: of this that she's talking about is included in the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: fraud and the indictment, because I don't she never reported
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: any of it. She was like, this is my family,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: we can figure it out. But she was just dealing
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: with this for years. So she said. He announced that
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: he wanted to start this foundation. He told the family.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Jamie along with like other people in the family, said
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: this is a great idea and we would love to
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: be involved. But then in December of twenty twenty, he
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: made a Facebook page and announced the board members, and
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: she said she didn't know any of the people on
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: the board. She wasn't told or asked to be on
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: the board or asked to be involved in the foundation
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: at all.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Probably because he knew she would try to do the
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: right thing with all the money.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Probably yeah, so she was like, okay whatever. Earlier that summer,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: in August of twenty twenty, he like texted a bunch
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of family members and including her, and said, Hey, I
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: have a big announcement meet today and the home Depot
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: parking lot. And this was a big deal because she
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: explained the parking space where he was shot and killed.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Home Depot, I believe was making a memorial for him,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: and they were working on a bench. Oh wow, you know,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: a really nice like iron or some kind of metal
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: bench that would have a plaque with his name on it,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and that was going to be reserved, so that wouldn't
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: be a parking spot anymore. So they had been told
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: about this and we're excited, and she thought, oh my gosh,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I bet the bench is ready. This is so exciting.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: So she gets her sons, they, you know, go to
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: home depot. The news is there, like he's alerted everybody.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, and his announcement has nothing to do with
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the memorial. Instead, he announces that he's going to run
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: for city council.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, so he's going to this scene of where his
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: own son was shot in the line of duty, killed
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: in the line of duty to announce a bedvers city council.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, how many ways can you exploit
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: the death of your own child.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: It's truly so gross, so gross, And she talks about
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: feeling like, why did you drag us out here for this?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Probably because he wanted to appear like they were all
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: on the same side and that he was beloved by
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: Anthony DIA's wife and children.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Probably like here they are supporting me. But she's like,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: we had no idea that this is what he was
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: going to say. And she didn't like the fact that
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: he did it at home depot where Anthony was killed.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: She thought that was exploitive and weird.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think in the episode with d we just
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: refer to it as a hardware store, but it was
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a home depot.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So then in September of twenty twenty, remember Anthony
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: was killed in July, Jamie says that Tony reached out
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to her and asked her to borrow ten thousand dollars
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: and said he would pay her back in three checks.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: That this was something to do with his business or
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you know, helping him financially. She agreed, for whatever reason
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: as far as life insurance or whatever, she had some money.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: She agrees to let him borrow it. She says. The
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: first check he sent went through. The next one was
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: in November and it bounced, which made her bank charge her. Yeah,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: you know, she waited a couple of days. She contacted him,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Oh you know, sorry, there was a snap who just
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: deposited again? She does, and it bounces again. So then
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: she said. By the time like Christmas comes around, she's
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: just like tells him, look, you don't have to pay
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: me the rest back. You paid me a third of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: it back. Merry Christmas. I don't want to have drama
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: with you. I want you to have a really good
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: relationship with your grandchildren. Like she's being very gracious because
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: he has not been very great to her. But she's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: just like, look, I want us all to like be
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: okay and be on the same page. But then it
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: just continues on. You know. In twenty twenty one, he's
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: like throwing another fundraiser for the Anthony Dia Foundation, and
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: he gets on to her about how she's not contributing
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: enough to it. It's like, let her just rebuild her life. Yeah.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: So she says they had two cars because she had
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: a car and Anthony had a car. Anthony's car was newer,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: so she decided, I'll drive that one and keep it
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and I'll donate my Hyundai Santa Fe to the fundraiser
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: so that Tony can auction it off and that this
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: can be money for the foundation. Wow, that is very generous. Yeah,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: So she donates a car to this auction. She goes
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: and she like buys a ticket and is super supportive.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: It just sounds like whatever she does, it's never enough.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: In October of twenty twenty one, they're invited to this
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: thing called Police Week in Washington, DC. She said she
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: went and it was great. It was very emotional though,
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you know, like she spoke, there were all these different
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: families there and she was just like overwhelmed with emotion.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And then that night they all went out to dinner
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: and Tony Day was there as well, and she said
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: it was that night that he approached her when like
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: they were really like connected and everyone was feeling really
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: good and emotional and they just honored Anthony and like
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: connected with other family members who had experienced loss in
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: their family.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Like a difficult moment, but maybe pretty cathartic.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and where like you can imagine that all of
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the disagreements you have had with your father in law,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: you're kind of able to let them go because like
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: compared to life and death, it's not as big of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: a deal, right. Yeah, When he approaches her and is like, hey,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: can you do me a favor and then she says,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: he says, no pressure, but if you can't, I'm going
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: to lose my house. I need to consolidate my truck
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: loans for my company. Would you co sign on a
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: loan with me?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: No pressure, but if you don't, I might lose my house.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: It's like, can he give her a break? I mean,
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: think of, oh, like what this woman has been through
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: and how strong she has to be right now for
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: her children and losing the breadwinner in the household. Just
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: obviously the emotional toll of losing him, but the practical toll, Yeah,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: an unbelievable amount of stress I would imagine she's under
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: at this time.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and also making a real effort to make sure
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: that her kids still have a really good relationship with
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: their grandparents and like his side of the family. So
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: she agrees because she has good credit. So the next
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: week week or so, they go to the bank and
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: she says the guy at the bank and Tony tell
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: her the same thing. They say that she's one of
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: two co signers on this loan, because she says, she asked, okay,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: what happens if he doesn't start paying the loan back?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And they say they'll go after Tony first, and then
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: they'll go after the other co signers second, and you
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: would be third. So like, this is very low risk
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: to you. She goes, okay, so she agrees. Then in
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, is this Harley Davidson raffle that you
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: talked about, right, And you know Jamie's mom bought one
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of the one hundred dollars tickets. Oh, and then it
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: was canceled and she said her mom said she wanted
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: a refund. So she messaged Tony and he said, yeah, yeah,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: message me Tuesday. So she does and he just ghosts her,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: never responds to her.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: She has just co signed on a loan to help
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: him to not lose his house and he can't even
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: respond to her.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Cold, well, this is her mom who's texting him,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Jamie's mom, but still.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Can't even respond to her mom. It's like, yeah, that's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: mind blowing to me.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She said, this is the first time that she started
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: to have suspicions. And Jamie's like, Mom, I don't know,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Like I just here, I can pay you the hundred dollars,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: like I don't want it, And she said her mom
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: was like, no, Jamie, listen, if he's running a foundation,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: he should have a separate bank account for any money
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that's given to the foundation. And it should be sitting
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: in that account, so like there should never be an
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: issue of returning the money, you know, if the event
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: fell through, because it should still just be sitting in
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: that account. So why would he not be returning it?
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: And this is the first time that she thought, hmm, yeah,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: that is really weird, like what is going on there?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And then you know, they would have like a family thing,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: and she noticed that Tony would walk in and like
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a new pair of Easy's and expensive jeans, and like
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: it was clear that he's been shopping and his wardrobe
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: looks expensive.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Not a good look if you're asking people for money.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: No, So then in October of twenty twenty three, she
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: got a letter of delinquent funds from this loan that
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: she'd signed, and they were suing her and the total
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: was four hundred and eighty one thousand dollars.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Can you even imagine getting sued for almost half a
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: million dollars? Ever, and then let alone like within a
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: few years of losing your husband and trying to just like,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: you know, get your life in order and figure out
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: what your new future can even look like.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: That's just devastating. And it's a family member, it's a
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: family member. Yeah, And I'm sure her feelings are complicated
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: because it's like, this is the father of the man
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: that she loved and was married to. But then he's
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: acting like this.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Right, and like we've seen this when we think about
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: like fraud stories, when we've reported on fraud stories. But
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: she signed the loan, so like there is some level
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: of responsibility there, but sounds like the person at the
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: bank told her the same thing Tony did. This is
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: ultra low risk.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And they were going after her first because she
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: said she had to put her assets down for the loans,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: and she's like, I didn't have money, but I did
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: have that go fund me that people had given that
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: I had put in a trust for my children, so
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: that had to be listed as an asset. So when
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: there was delinquent funds, like the bank starts coming after
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: me first. She ends up hiring a lawyer and being
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: able to get her name off of this contract. She
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: has to pay like almost thirty thousand dollars in the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: end for lawyer fees and all of this stuff, which
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: she didn't have thirty thousand dollars laying around. Yeah, but
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: she said if she didn't do it, then it would
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: have wiped out completely the trust that she had for
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: her sons for their future, and that was like her
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: one nest egg.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have to imagine that Tony Dia was
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: well aware of this trust and maybe just thought, whatever
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: is money given to her, so should have been given
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: to me, Like.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: That's how he was acting.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm glad she got out of that, but
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: still thirty grand that is a ton of money.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So then like over the next couple of years
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: before he's investigated, she basically cuts ties with him, and
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: he like uninvites her to holidays because she took her
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: name off this loan and he looked at that as
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: a betrayal. And she starts thinking that he is stealing
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: money from people and is convinced that there's something fishy
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: going on with this foundation. But he's denying this and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: basically saying that she's betrayed him. Why would she believe
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: these bad things about him? So, you know, because this
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: is in twenty twenty three, and then I think you
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: said he was investigated in like twenty twenty five. Well
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: that's when the charges happen. When the charges happened, so
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: there's like a year and a half where the community
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what to believe, the rest of her family
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what to believe, and so she's just sort
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: of in this weird position where she knows that he's
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: doing i mean, just from what he's done to her.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: She's like, he's not acting above board here, and I'm
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: worried that he's doing the same thing with this foundation,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: But like most people don't believe her or just still
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: stand by him until eventually, you know, the truth comes
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: out and oh, she you know, made this video just
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to say this whole thing has put her and her
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: son's back in the limelight in this really negative way,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: which you know, is really unfortunate because she's like, my
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: main thing is to honor my husband's memory and to
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: not have it tarnished with all of this like.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Fraud, right, because eventually, you know, your kids get older
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: and they're gonna know everything that happened. They're gonna be
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: able to read about it, and it's like this is
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: their dad's legacy. And it's also just so disappointing. I mean,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I can see why she fought for that relationship, like
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: they have lost their father and think, you know, it's
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: reasonable to hope that your father in law could step
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: in and be close with them and be a source
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: of support and a role model. And I can see
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: why she fought for that and maybe pushed aside or
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: rationalized his bad behavior. But I mean, to think about
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: doing to anyone, let alone someone in her position, it's
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: just like, Okay, that makes me like take back anything
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: I think about him having had any actual remorse honestly,
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and it was pretty enlightening, and damn for Tony Dia
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: had to say, yeah, that's pretty bad.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I would say that was like too much
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: for us to fit into the Dylan episode, but that
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: was the whole separate fraud to do with Anthony DIA's
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: murder unfortunately.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, his name came up a few times
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: and we knew there was more. But Dee also had
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: this like explosive story of her own, and that's just
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: what it is sometimes making these weekly episodes. But yeah,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: another part of the Lisa's story is that I interviewed
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: a man named Pete who had a romantic relationship with Lisa,
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell you all about it.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, I'm ready to hear it.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So Pete lives in Toledo. He is a single dad.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: He has two daughters, and he drives a freight truck.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: He used to be in it he wanted to change
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: of pace, so he started driving a truck and he
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: loves it. He also has some prior military service. He
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: is the nicest person, he said. He absolutely loves his job.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: He's super close with his daughters and is a really
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: involved parent. And at the time this all transpires, which
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: is mostly in twenty twenty three, his youngest daughter is
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: nine and his oldest daughter is about sixteen. They have
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: different mothers, and this all starts in early twenty twenty three,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: and Pete is in the process of a custody battle
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: with his youngest daughter's mother, and they had had an
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: eleven year relationship. So this was pretty tangled and it
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: was a stressful time. But by the spring of twenty
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: twenty three things were starting to stabilize. I mean, they
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: were still ongoing legal proceedings, but he was fine. And
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: so his youngest daughter had a school play and she
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: was also on the school soccer team, so he was
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: at school pretty regularly. And his daughter actually attended the
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: same school as Lisa's two sons. Okay, so he would
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: run into Lisa as school, and Lisa was also his
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: daughter's soccer coach.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, I do remember something from the episode about
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: a soccer team, like helping with a fundraiser, so this.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Is yeah ringing about okay, yeah, So he knew Lisa
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: in like a very very surface level way where you
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: might interact with your kid's school soccer coach, and.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Not beyond that.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: He hadn't really thought about her romantically at all, but
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: he did have some memory of thinking that she was married,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: and that was it for him. This was just his
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: daughter's soccer coach. And then slowly Lisa starts contacting Pete
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: through this app that they use for the soccer coach
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: to communicate with the parents of children on the team. Okay,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: at first, it's just updates, like your daughter did really
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: good at practice today. She's really loving it, she's doing great.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Pete thinks nothing of it. He's like, okay, cool, thanks,
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: like good to know. And then the communication from Lisa
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: moves off of the app and she starts to text him,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and Pete's a single dad, but he thinks Lisa is married,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: so he's a little bit confused. She starts sending him
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: messages like just little things you might send someone that
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: you were interested in, little updates on your day, are
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: asking how they're doing. Pretty benign, sort of flirty. I
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: think it's like that moment in a relationship where you're
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: kind of taking at tempt check, like, hey, I'm talking
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: to you a little more than I might talk to
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: someone I'm not interested in, but nothing like super forward.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And then she tells Pete that she's actually getting a
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: divorce and everything will be finalized by August of twenty
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: twenty three, okay. And then she says, so you should
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: take me out.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: For a drink. Wow, okay, making the first move. Uh huh.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And we're still in the spring of twenty twenty three,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: and Pete's telling me about this moment, and he remembers
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: I think he used the words like I was grinning
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: ear to ear, like he felt chemistry with her. He
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: was excited about this, and once he realized, oh, she
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a husband, maybe legally, but they're divorced, Okay,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I have the go ahead here, we're flirting, like, let's
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: do this. And so they go out and totally hit
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: it off, and he just felt chemistry with her immediately
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: and is really excited and happy. And here's this person
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: who also already knows his youngest daughter. She's clearly like
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: she's a mother of her own children. You know, they're
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: connecting on being parents and it's just going really well.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's got to feel exciting someone already knows and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: has a good relationship with your.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Child totally, and Lisa wasn't wearing her wedding ring. I mean,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: he had no reason to suspect that she was lying
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: at all at this point. So they begin hanging out
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: pretty much every single day. They would either hang out
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: at his house, go to dinner. Within two months, they're
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: saying that they love each other.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a little bit fast and furious. But
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I think when people get a little older
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: and you already have children, like you just know more
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: about yourself and what you're looking for. So it's like, yeah,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: two months could feel fast, but if you're spending every
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: day together, I don't know. And he's like, yeah, okay,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I love you, and she says it back and he's
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: so excited and he's like, well, I was invited to
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: this wedding in August. Would you come with me, and
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: she's like, absolutely yes, And so the school gets out,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: summer's happening. He's taken her to family barbecues. He's excited
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: about the wedding. And now at this point he is
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: aware that Lisa once had cancer.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, what does she tell him about that?
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so she tells him, look, I had cancer. I
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: don't have cancer right now. I'm in the remission or
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: however she worded it. Okay, but I regularly have to
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: go get you know, checked up on about it. Okay,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: And he's like, wow, I had no idea. He was
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: not aware of anything with fundraisers for her. He's like,
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: I work a.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Lot, I'm not online. I didn't see that stuff.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: He would later tell me that his mom when she
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: started meeting Lisa, his mom appeared really supportive to him,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: but later said, you know, something felt off.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Just something felt off.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: There's okay, so much going on with this person, and
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: she didn't want to ruin it for Pete because she
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: could see how happy he was. She also didn't know,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of similar to that little voice D had.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: She didn't know, and you don't want to be wrong
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: For sure. Are there kids hanging out with them as
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: well when they're hanging out so often.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, but Pete said that they just weren't affectionate around
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: the younger kids. He said his older daughter was like, Okay,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I know that you guys are dating, but if you
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: really like her, I really like her and I'm really
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: happy for you. So they kept it pretty chill around
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: the littler kids. So maybe Lisa's son didn't know that
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: they were dating, right, And I think they were primarily
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: at Pete's house. Okay, they had times where all the
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: kids were together, because primarily just with Pete and his children.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. Interesting.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: So this part of the story for me was like what.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: So basically he's going through these legal proceedings custody battle
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: with his ex and Lisa is like so supportive. She's like,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go to the meetings with your lawyer
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: and I want to help you however I can. And
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: he's like okay, And so she goes to breakfast with
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: him in his attorney and she's like, I can help
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: you pay these legal fees and he's like, why didn't
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: ask you for help paying these legal fees?
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Like I've been paying these She's getting involved in this
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: at all, okay, so good question.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Apparently you know, I can't fully close the loop on this,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: but what he could tell me is that Lisa and
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: his ex were friends and they had a follow out.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: She already knew the ex.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, and they had a falling out shortly before Lisa
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: starts flirting with Pete. What I know, Oh my gosh, bananas.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: So Lisa just starts insisting you need to let me
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: pay your legal fees, like I make so much money.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: She says, she has this really great job working remotely
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: for the YMCA, which you know, I don't know how
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: much the YMCA pays, so they don't think it's like
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: a million bucks. Like she's working remotely for the YMCA,
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: is what she says. He's like, Okay, I don't need
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: you to cover these bills. But he said that telling
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: her no was like she just would become so insistent
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that he was like, okay, okay, like you can help me.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: It's fine if you're so insistent on helping. And interesting,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: they're talking about their future together, they're spending every day together.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: It feels much more like a long term partnership than
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: just someone you're dating at this point, and so Midsummer,
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Lisa tells Pete that her cancer is back.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, and he's like, here we go.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: He said they were I think at a park, just
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: hanging out, like laying down and like having this like
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: nice moment, like my cancer has returned. And he was
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: devastated and scared and didn't know what that would mean
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: for her. And you know, he works a job where
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: you can't just like leave and go to her appointments
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: with her. Yeah, and so she was keeping him updated,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: just telling him what was going on.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: But he said that she would.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: Send photos of an IV in her arm and with
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: these like emotional messages following, and it's like, Okay, the arm,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: the picture is very cropped, her face is not in it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: And it just feels like, you know, there's no right
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: or wrong way to share with someone that you're going
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: through something as scary as a cancer diagnosis. But I
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: honestly feel like, even if I didn't know her whole backstory,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: it seems so disingenuous, like telling someone that's really excited
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: about their future with you that your cancer is back.
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I think any normal person would acknowledge that that's going
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: to be a difficult thing for them to learn. Yeah,
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: like that's going to hurt them and doesn't mean you
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: shouldn't say it, like that's what you're going through. But
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: didn't seem like she was worried about that. Seemed like
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: she kind of wanted it to upset him, like make
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: him sad.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: She was getting something out of that emotional manipulation.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it seems like to me. So he
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: just tries to support her as best he can. He's
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: still working full time and they're just moving through the motions.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: She's still coming over. She seems to still be able to,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: like you know, participate in their day to day life,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: and she's managing it. Okay, does she still have her hair?
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah? She still had her hair? Okay, Okay, so she
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: didn't shave her head. No, this time, she didn't say
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: shave her head while they had a wedding coming up. Wow, okay. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: So Pie's attorney, who he's now been working with for
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: a long time and they have a good rapport, calls
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: him and he's like, hey, Lisa didn't pay I know
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: she said she was going to, but I haven't received
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: anything from her. And so Pete calls Lisa and he's
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: like Hey, what's going on with this? Because I didn't
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: ask you to pay and if you're having trouble paying,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to just pay it. But just what's happening here?
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Like what are you not telling me? And she's like, oh,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know what happened. I'll get it to him
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: right away. And so she does end up eventually getting
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: him a check, but it's like.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: What on earth? So she does pay it.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: She eventually does pay it, not all of it, but
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: she sends him some of the money. Okay, just like
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: so strange. And in the meantime, Lisa is also building
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: this relationship with Pete's oldest daughter, who's sixteen, and she's like,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: you know, okay, I work at the YMCA remotely. I
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: can get you a great job there. I'm going to
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: help you out. So she's like, okay, great, here's this
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: sixteen year old who's being she's gonna make like I
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: don't know, it was somewhere between fifteen and twenty dollars
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: an hour, and this was a good opportunity for someone who's,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: you know, only sixteen to be getting a sort of
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: a job like I worked at a tanning salon, you know,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, so Lisa gets her a laptop and sets
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: her up with these online training courses and she's like, okay,
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: you know W two, like the whole nine yards, and
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: so she's like, you need to do these courses and
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: then after that you'll be fully employed. But this is
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: like your training period. And she's like, okay. So Pete's
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: daughter is doing this. She's logging onto this portal. She's
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: doing all these classes and trainings, which is like a
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: YMCA portal. You know. He didn't know what kind of
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: portal it was, but he was like, she had to
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: log into something like she filled out.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: A W two and do a training. Yeah, and do
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: it like classes filling out a W two. I mean,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: she's giving Lisa her Social Security number. Yep.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: It really does st doesn't it. It's bad, but this
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: is paid training, right as it legally has to be.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: And so she's doing it and then her paycheck's just
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: not coming and Lisa she's like, it didn't direct deposit,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: and she's like, there must be an issue. Let me
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: see what's going on. And she sends them a picture
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: of the pay stub, which I don't know why she
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: would have a picture of it, but they wouldn't have
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: had it mailed to them. And she's like, oh, here's
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: the pay stub, so I know they're trying to send it.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Let me figure out what's happening. And she's like, oh,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: your background check. Something went wrong with the background check
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: so it bumped you out of the system. We're going
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: to resolve it. So she's like, okay, we'll just wait
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit. I mean, this girl is sixteen, what's
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: she going to do? And then it still just doesn't come.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: This money never comes, and so she's like, Lisa, I
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: need to get paid for this. You said I which
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: at sixteen. I'm like wow.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: You go like that's good for her, good for her,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: stand up for yourself. Yeah, And Lisa's like, you're right.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to take you to the corporate office and
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: we're going to ask them what's going on and we're
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: going to have them deal with this. And she's like okay,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: let's go.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: So they get in the car and at this point,
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Pete's daughter is like, I don't trust this person, but
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go figure out where my paycheck is. And
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: they get to the parking lot of the YMCA and
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: Lisa gets a call and she answers the phone, So
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know did her phone ring was it on silent?
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: And she starts talking to it.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Don't know are they just going to a local IMCA
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: or is she going to some kind of corporate office.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know it's exactly where they went, but I
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: don't think it was like headquarters. I think it was
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: just like some place where they could talk to someone. Okay,
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: but it is like a YMCA. And so they're in
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: the parking lot. Lisa answers this call really hastily, and
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Pete sent the whole phone call, according to his daughter,
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: was like twenty seconds, but that when Lisa got off
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: the phone, she had way more than twenty seconds worth
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: of information. And she's like, oh my gosh, this person
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: she's not there today or we can't actually do this today.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I can't believe this. Like Lisa's acting angry that this
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: has happened and that they've wasted their time, and Pete's
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: daughter is not buying it. She's like, you're faking this.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: She's like, you get you're a liar. So she says, oh, well,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: I have to use the bathroom, so I'm gonna go inside.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Good for her, yeah, and Lisa waits outside, and so
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: you're thinking, like, why wouldn't you just walk in right
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: like you work there, don't you. So Pete's sixteen year
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: old daughter walks in. She goes to a receptionist and
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: she's like, Hi, I have been training now and I
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: have not received my paycheck. I heard it something to
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: do with my background check. But can we just figure
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: it out? And she's like, yeah, give me your name.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: So she gives the woman her name, and this person
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: looks there and she's like, who hired you? And she
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: says Lisa Tickameier and the woman's face just falls and
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: she's like, Okay, you're not in our system. Lisa has
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: not worked for the YMCA since December twenty twenty two,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: so many months since Lisa's even worked there. And Lisa
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: has told Pete that she works remotely for the YMCA,
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: so that's why she's been able to be at his
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: house so much. She would be there during the day,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: supposedly working remotely while Pete was driving.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: In the truck. Wow.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so his daughter is reasonably pissed, and she's like, Okay.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: I love his daughter. I'm going in there and I'm
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: figuring this. I mean, she's a detective. Like, if we
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: could hire her, we would, yes. So she then goes
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: outside and she does not hide her feelings from Lisa.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: She's like, I'm not getting back in the car with you.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: I know that you're lying about something. This is what
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: they told me.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: And she calls her cousin to come pick her up,
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: and Lisa is also freaking out, like, no, I have
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: an explanation, like I can figure this out for you.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Irol irol, and so she's like, no, I'm not doing it.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Well.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Pete then gets a call from his daughter, and she
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: knows what kind of job he has that he can't
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: just be on the phone, but she's like, call me
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: when you can. He calls her. She tells him this
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: is what's going on, and he's like, okay, well I'll
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: talk to Lisa. There must be some explanation, Pete, Pete.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I hope Pete believes his daughter and doesn't get wrapped
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: up in Lisa's lies. Well. I talked to him about
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: this because he just seems like such a good dad,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: and I think he also thought it was a bit odd,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: but the question of this whole thing that made him
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: sort of pretty convinced that there must be an explanation.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: Is that what was Lisa gaining? Yeah, this sixteen year
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: old girl is not doing assistant work for her, she's
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: not paying to take these classes. She didn't pay for
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: this laptop. Like, what would she have had to gain?
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: It's so odd.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Did Lisa give her a laptop? Yeah?
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Lisa provided everything, and so okay, he's like, there must
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: be an explanation. Let me talk to Lisa. Lisa convinces
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: him that there's an explanation, and then it all comes
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: back to this background check. So he just sort of
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: calms things with his daughter and is like, we're going
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: to figure this out. But I'm going to help figure out.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: How would there be a problem with a sixteen year
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: old's background check? Oh, I mean, it's such a bad lie.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: It's such a bad lie. But okay, yeah, Also, you
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: have a relationship with this woman, and you have these
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: ideas and dreams about this future you're going to have.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: So he has a lot of incentive to try to
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: believe her at this point.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Right, It'd be one thing if his daughter had been like, well,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: I gave her five hundred dollars to do this training
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: or something, but that wasn't the case, right, and so
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: things kind of mellow out for a minute. They go
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: to this August wedding together. The wedding is for one
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: of Pete's friends. He said that everyone just loved Lisa,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: thought they were so great together. And they come back
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: and things are a little more, a little better with
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: his oldest daughter, but she still wants to know why
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: she hasn't been paid. And over the course of the summer,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Lisa had been talking to Pete and Pete's oldest daughter
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: about also getting her car, and like, you can imagine
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: where this is going, but Lisa just buys a used car,
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: puts it in the driveway for his daughter. She's elated.
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: Pete had no idea the purchase was happening.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: She's like, okay, you're forgiven. You know, maybe not fully,
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: but she was like, okay, I'm happy to accept this car.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And what sixteen year old wouldn't be happy about that.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: So she's driving the car around for about a week
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: and they get a knock on the door and it's
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: a man who owns a local used car lot and
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: he's like, Lisa, you never paid for the car, and
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: she's like.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. Let me go to
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: the eight. Oh so let me go to the ATM.
• 53:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she literally says the ATM. I guess she goes
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: to the ATM to get him five hundred bucks to
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: like hold him over before she can get him like
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: the full amount the next day or something. So he
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: comes to Lisa's house or to Pete's house because that's
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Lisa's there.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay, So this is.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: A real point of fracture in the relationship because now
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, whatever she's lying about, she is lying
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: about something, and I don't know why or what because
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: we didn't ask for this car, we didn't ask for
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: these legal fees, we didn't ask for this job at
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: the YMCA, Like what's going on? And so Pete is
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: really frustrated and he's like Lisa, like, I don't think
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: you're being truthful with me. She's like, I am, there's
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: just something going on in my personal life I can't.
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Talk about yet.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: And he's like, well, then you just need to take
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: a beat and go back home until you can talk
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: to me, because this is like very not fair to
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: my kids. And so one morning, well Pete's getting ready
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: for work. Shortly after this, she calls him and she says,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: the police are raiding my house with a search warrant
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: and this was actually happening, But she tells him that
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: for the cancer fraud investigators, for the cancer fraud investigation.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: But she tells him it's all to do with Tony
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Diah and d Lynn.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh.
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: She's like these people wearing cahoot's about a fraud, but
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: because it corresponded with them, they need my phone and
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: my ex husband's phone and that's why they're here. And
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: she's claiming that her husband had shady financial dealings with
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Tony Diaz that were under investigation.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: That's not true at all.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: And you know, she's bringing up d Lan, saying that
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: she's some sort of reason for this because the police
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: rate is actually happening. Pete doesn't really doubt her because
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: fraud wasn't on his mind at all. It was like, Okay,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: so Tony Dia is doing something wrong and maybe that
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: is what this is all about.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: And it's also true Tony Dia was doing something wrong, right, yeah,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: And so then Lisa just sort of disappears for a second.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Probably this is when she's arrested, and she sends Pete
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: an emailed that just says, don't contact me. Wow.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: At the time, Pete's like, this doesn't sound like Lisa.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: This must be like her mom. Like this is so strange.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: But he's like, okay, I won't contact you. Well, it
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: turns out that, you know, when her phone was taken
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: and then searched, they find all this correspondence with Pete
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: and they know that she's married. So he's then being
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: reached out to by Detective Ryan and Ryan tells him, look,
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: this is who this person is, this is what she
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: has done.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: He tells him, we're investigating her for this fraud. Yeah.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: He tells him everything everything he can tell him that, yeah,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: Lisa's under investigation for fraud. She's not divorced. There is
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: no divorce. She's been lying to you.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine getting that call?
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, he said, it was like his vision
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: became a tunnel, like everything went black around him, and
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: he was just like, what are you telling me right now?
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Like who is this person who has been spending every
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: single day at his house telling him that she had
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: a job that she didn't have. So basically he's figuring
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: out that She told her husband that she was going
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: to work, but she wasn't going to work. She was
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: going to Pete's house. So she's spending mostly days at
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Peace House, but isn't peace at work during the day. Yeah,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: but she's you know, they're pretty comfortable, pretty fast. So
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: she's got a key, she's letting herself in. But then
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: like she's spending some evenings with Pete, and then what
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: is she telling her husband? He still doesn't know what
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: she told her husband, but he said that she would
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: often leave and come back, leave and come back throughout
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: the evening like oh, I have to run home really, yeah,
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: take care of my sons or something like. Basically he
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: thought that her soon to be ex which was actually
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: just her husband. They were still living under the same
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: roof because financially, you know, immediately getting two living spaces,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: especially when you have children, that's really hard. Yeah, and
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: so he was like, yeah, divorce is messy, that's what's happening.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: So they lived close to each other, yeah, and so
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: she would be like running back like, oh, I got
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: to go take care of this thing. I'll be back
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: in an hour yep. And then she's running home and
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: telling her husband some other kind of story that I
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: have to go back out for work or whatever.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so as this is all coming to light,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: Pete's oldest daughter says, you know, I'm missing a lot
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: of cash I had saved up in my room. Yeah,
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: so Lisa took money from her.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: That is so sinister. She's stealing from this teenager and
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: already like conned this teenager like into this fake job
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: and this car, and like all it's just like that
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: is so truly dark.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: And for what, Like she never asked you for a job,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: She never asked you for a car. She was just
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: happy her dad found someone he connected with. So the
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: amount of money that she stole from his daughter is
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: the amount of money she paid the attorney. Oh my gosh,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: can you imagine? Like what the hell?
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's like, what is Lisa getting out of this?
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: She must just love I don't know, this emotional manipulation.
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Maybe she gets some kind of high.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like these fake worlds to me, it sounds so stressful.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: You're like creating these narratives running back and forth. Yeah,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: she clearly liked doing all of this.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: Well, and I asked Pete the same question, like why
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: why do you think she did this, and he said
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: that after, you know, reflecting on this now for a
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: long time. This relationship took place in twenty twenty three,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: he recalled a moment in the car with her where
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: she said, sometimes I just create these scenarios in my
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: head and they just feel so real to me.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, He's like, Okay.
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: I mean why Yeah, whatever context she said it in,
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: it didn't feel like this major red flag at the time,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: but now looking back, it's like, yeah, she was creating
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: all of these fake realities, like, oh, she's this person
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: battling cancer, she's this mom divorcing her husband, who she
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: then told Pete had been abusing her. But that was
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: never my gosh, you know, Pete has never found anything
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: to say that that's been true at all, but Lisa
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: had said that to him.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: She's this potential new stepmom who gets to like buy
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: her stepdaughter a car. Yeah, like loves being a hero.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Like is it the fantasy that she's just like loving that?
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: It must be this high from like similar to d
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: with the shed, it's like, look at these things I'm
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: doing for you so that you won't question me. H.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: Just so bizarre, but.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: And no foresight to think that like if you make
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: a promise about a job, or to pay some legal fees,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: or you take a car without paying for it, like
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: that will come back in the end. That's not just
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: going to go away.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: The stress that she must be living with to just
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: live her life this way with just compounding lies. Yeah,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: I mean they went to dinner with both of their children,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: like Pete's daughters and her sons. They once did, like
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: a whole dinner.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: And the boys could have said anything. They could have said.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: It have been like, you're not divorced from our dad. Yeah.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Pete actually said that there was a moment at that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: dinner where he was under the impression Lisa was in
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: the process of moving out, and he almost asked one
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: of her sons, how's the move going, just trying to
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: make conversation, but he just decided not to ask because
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: you never know how a kid is feeling in those moments.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: And he's like, what if I would have asked, what
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: would they have said? Would they have said, what move
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: were you talking about?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Probably like so strange kids.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's a wild story, but yeah, Pete
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: basically said it took him a year to really emotionally recover.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: He had a lot of conversations with the detective Ryan,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: and he really credited Ryan to being a source of
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: emotional support through that process because he said Ryan would
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: take the time to talk to him and say, this
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: is what happened, this is what she was doing. And
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes people who have been lied to, scammed, whatever,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: it's like, they have been living in this person's fake
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: reality and to step out of it takes a lot
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: of hard work. Yeah, because you know it all to
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: be true. It takes time to process that and really
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: get it through your brain. From people we've talked to
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: of like wait, was this real? Was this real? Was
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: this and then to be like, oh no, it was
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: all a lie.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I know. And yeah, that's really great that this detective
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: was willing to like have those conversations with him and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: walk him through all his questions. I'm sure that was
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: really helpful.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and acknowledge him as a victim. Yeah, Like that
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: is huge And I'm happy to say that today Pete
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: and both his daughters are doing really well. He did
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: tell me his oldest daughter, who's now twenty bottom motorcycle,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: which he's.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Pretty nervous about.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: He was like, yeah, they're doing good and we're doing good,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: and he still has some complicated feelings for Lisa but
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: just hopes that she gets help and wanted to share
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: his story so that others could recognize warning signs.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did Lisa ever try to reach back out to him?
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: He said that they have not spoken. Yeah, so I
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: don't know if she's tried and he hasn't, but they
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: have not spoken.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: He cut things off. Yeah, good for him.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine it's like mess with me, but like
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: mess with my kids.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Like what are what? So sad? Because like I don't
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: know then, like how do you date again and trust
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: someone I know? And he was like the nicest person.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, he works long hours and sat on the
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: phone and told me his whole story and I'm like, wow, wow,
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you were able to speak with him
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: and that they got away from Lisa that they're doing well. Yeah, seriously.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: So that was our episode today, follow up to last
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: week's and if we get any more updates about Lisa
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: and what she's up to, we will keep you updated.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week. If you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: have a story for us, we would love to hear it.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: This has been an Exactly Right production hosted and produced
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith and me paysha Ety.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and Alexis Samarosi.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: is Christina Chamberlain. Our theme music is by Birds in
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: the Airport Artwork five NSA Lilac Executive produced by Karen
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer