Latest / Science Show KY / 11.6.25
Transcript
- 0:01Speaker 1: Hello. This Kelly Taylor. I'll be your host for Radioized
- 0:04Diary of Science and Nature. We'll have some articles related
- 0:08to the topics of science and nature. But first a
- 0:11reminder that RADIOI is a reading service intended for people
- 0:15who are blind or have other disabilities that make it
- 0:18difficult to read printed material. We'll start off with an
- 0:23article from Scientific American dated October thirtieth, written by Cody Contier,
- 0:29and the headline is Chimps can weigh evidence and update
- 0:32their beliefs. Like humans do. You generally have reasons good
- 0:38or bad for your beliefs. You can reflect on those reasons.
- 0:42Why do I think there's a serial killer in the attic?
- 0:45It's because the floor creaked and a paragon of rationality
- 0:50that you are. You can also adjust your beliefs when
- 0:52additional evidence demands it. Having scoured the attic, baseball bat
- 0:56in hand, I must conclude that it's just an old,
- 0:58creaky house. This cognitive skill is known as belief revision.
- 1:04It's long been considered a hallmark of human rationality that
- 1:08distinguishes us from other animals. It relies on a reflective
- 1:13awareness of our own thought processes, thinking about thinking or
- 1:18metacognition that other species don't obviously possess. But a new
- 1:23study published today in the journal Science shows that our
- 1:26closest evolutionary relatives also reason in surprisingly sophisticated ways. In
- 1:34a series of experiments, researchers tested chimpanzees at the Nungamba
- 1:39Island Chimpanzee Sanctuary in Uganda to see how the animals
- 1:43juggle different sources of evidence. Each experiment revolved around food
- 1:48hidden in one of several boxes. The chimps would pick
- 1:51the box they thought was most promising based on any
- 1:53initial clue. Then they'd get another clue that sometimes conflicted
- 1:57with the first. Given the chance to update their decision,
- 2:00they almost always chose the box predicted by a rational
- 2:04choice model, and only changed their mind when the new
- 2:07information was stronger than what they already knew. Quote the
- 2:11chimps knocked it out of the park, says Brian Hare,
- 2:15an evolutionary anthropologist at Duke University who was not involved
- 2:20in the study. Quote it's obvious this is so easy
- 2:24for them. Quote. Most impressively, the animals even accounted for
- 2:30clues that undermined earlier evidence. If they heard something bouncing
- 2:34around inside box one they would assume at first that
- 2:37it was an apple, but then the experimenter would pull
- 2:40out a stone. Realizing they had been misled. The chimps
- 2:44would immediately opt for box two, even though it appeared
- 2:47uninspiring a moment before this was quote the cherry on top,
- 2:53says study co author Jan Engelman, a comparative psychologist at
- 2:58the University of California, Berkeley. Quote. None of us thought
- 3:01they could do it because it's just so complex. Of course,
- 3:06lots of animals obey reason without reflecting on it, and
- 3:09Amiba is acting rationally in some sense when it follows
- 3:12chemical signals toward food. This unreflective responsiveness to evidence, as
- 3:18it's been called, is a mere shadow of human rationality,
- 3:23But Engelman argues that chimpanzee's ability to scrutinize evidence engage
- 3:27the certainty of their own knowledge comes much closer to
- 3:31the real thing. It's very hard to explain the chimp's
- 3:34behavior without appealing to some notion of reflection, he says.
- 3:39Christopher Krupigner, who studies animal cognition at Johns Hopkins University
- 3:44and was not involved in the study, agrees he's agnostic
- 3:48about the content of that reflection whether language. It's unclear
- 3:52how animals could mentally represent the propositions that make up
- 3:56human beliefs, like in parentheses. They have hear rattling, so
- 4:00there's probably an apple in the box. It's possible that
- 4:04chimps think primarily in pictures. Regardless, Kroupigner says, all of
- 4:09this suggests they're not just driven by simple emotional responses.
- 4:13They have rather complex awareness. Clearly, however, there's still more
- 4:17to human rationality. According to study co author Hannah Schleihauf,
- 4:22a comparative psychologist at Utrecht University in the Netherlands, the
- 4:26crucial ingredient may be social interaction. We're able to sharpen
- 4:31our beliefs through discussion. This is really what makes humans
- 4:35so special, she says. We give, give, and ask for reasons. Indeed,
- 4:41some cognitive scientists think our reasoning skills evolve so that
- 4:45we could argue with one another. This study reminds us
- 4:48that those skills evolve from somewhere, namely from cognitive abilities
- 4:52that were already present in the common ancestor that we
- 4:55share with chimpanzees and bonobos more than one hundred and
- 4:59fifty years ago. Charles Darwin predicted that our extraordinary mental
- 5:03powers would turn out to be extensions of capacities found
- 5:07throughout the animal kingdom. If chimpanzees are truly capable of reflection,
- 5:11the gap between us and our primate cousins narrows a
- 5:14bit further. As Hair puts it, there's no need to
- 5:17search the stars for intelligence. Akin to our own quote,
- 5:21we already know we're not alone. He says, there are
- 5:24beings here considering the world in a way that we
- 5:26think of as being rational. Quote and now staying with
- 5:35Scientific American. An article from November third, written by Ashley
- 5:40Baltz are vigil and headlined first ever footage shows killer
- 5:45whales attacking great white shark nursery. Orcas, or killer whales,
- 5:52are not known for their amiable demeanor. The famous bullies
- 5:55attack boats and pester other animals for reasons that sometimes
- 5:58aren't entirely clear. Now, for the first time, they've been
- 6:02spotted repeatedly targeting young great white sharks in a shark nursery.
- 6:06According to a new paper published in Frontiers and Marine Science,
- 6:11researchers watched two hunts via drone while monitoring orcas in
- 6:15the Gulf of California. Newly released footage from August twenty
- 6:19twenty shows the first clash, during which five orcas teamed
- 6:23up to go great white shark tipping. After shoving a
- 6:27shark up to the surface, the orcas rolled it onto
- 6:30its back. At that point, the battle is already won.
- 6:33Flipping a shark upside down induces a paralyzing state called
- 6:37tonic immobility, similar to a case of the twisties for
- 6:41a gymnast. It throws off the shark's spatial awareness and
- 6:45disrupts the connection between the animal's mind and body. The
- 6:49orcas then repeated the process with another young great white shark.
- 6:53In both cases, they went to all of that trouble,
- 6:56mainly for each shark's liver, because the organ is loaded
- 7:00with nutrients and energy. Two years later, in August twenty
- 7:04twenty two, the researchers saw repeat five orcas flipped over
- 7:08a young great white shark and ate its liver. The
- 7:11observations were detailed enough that researchers could identify and track
- 7:15individual orcas by their dorsal fin confirming that the same group,
- 7:20known as the Montezuma pod after its best known member,
- 7:25was behind both attacks. Quote This behavior is a testament
- 7:29to orca's advanced intelligence, strategic thinking, and sophisticated social learning,
- 7:34as the hunting techniques are passed down through generations within
- 7:37their pods, said marine biologist Eric Heghera Rivas, who led
- 7:42the new paper, in a recent press release. While scientists
- 7:45had previously seen orcas attack great whites, the killer whales
- 7:49mainly targeted adults, both for a larger meal and to
- 7:52get rid of competition for the same prey. The newly
- 7:55reported sighting surpres of the first direct evidence of orcus
- 7:59hunting down young great whites specifically. The researchers say the
- 8:03strange behavior may be linked to climate change induced warming waters,
- 8:07which seem to be pushing shark nurseries into the orcapod's
- 8:11hunting grounds. Because baby sharks are on their own from
- 8:15day one, their nurseries are really more like orphanages. There
- 8:18are no adults around to guard the little ones as
- 8:21they mature. That generally works fine because the animals have
- 8:24so few predators, but now that they've moved into dangerous waters,
- 8:28they may be forced to relocate once again. Quote Nursery
- 8:33areas are where young sharks spend time growing and learning
- 8:36to forage, so displacing them from those habitats can be disruptive,
- 8:41says Alison Towner, marine biologist at Roodes University in South
- 8:45Africa who specializes in orcapredation of sharks but wasn't involved
- 8:50in the new study. Quote. If the pressure is occasional,
- 8:54the impact may be limited, but if it becomes repeated,
- 8:57it could force juveniles into less suitable or riskier areas
- 9:02and ultimately disrupt the entire ecosystem. And now, sticking with
- 9:10Scientific American, we have an article from November the first,
- 9:14written by Jonathan O'Callahan. It's nearly time to say goodbye
- 9:18to the International Space Station. What happens next human spaceflight
- 9:24is on the cusp of an intriguing new dong. For
- 9:27twenty five years, astronauts have lived and worked on board
- 9:30the International Space Station over the ISS, starting with the
- 9:35arrival of its first occupants on November second of two thousand.
- 9:39Built through a partnership between the US and Russia in
- 9:42the aftermath of the Cold War, the ISS has now
- 9:45witnessed five presidential administrations, the advent and demise of the iPod,
- 9:50and even the lofting of another orbital habitat China's Changong
- 9:55space station, but the ISS's days are numbered. By twenty
- 9:59thirty one one, NASA plans to de orbit the space station,
- 10:03citing aging hardware and rising costs. The agency will bring
- 10:07it back through Earth's atmosphere for a fiery plunge into
- 10:10the Pacific Ocean. If all goes as planned, commercial space
- 10:15stations outposts operated not by government agencies but instead by
- 10:19private companies, will take the ISS's place to build on
- 10:23its success. The first of these is set to launch
- 10:28next year, with a slew of others scheduled to follow
- 10:30soon after. All of them have the same goal of
- 10:33fostering a vibrant, human centered economy in Earth orbit and
- 10:37ultimately beyond. Quote. We hope to build habitats for the
- 10:43Moon and Mars, and eventually even an artificial gravity space station,
- 10:48says Max Hout, CEO of Vast, a Long Beach, California
- 10:53based company at the forefront of the private sector spacefaring push.
- 10:57Vast plans to launch its Haven one space station as
- 11:01soon as May twenty six. On Haven one's heels will
- 11:06be several other habitats from Axium Space, Blue Origin and
- 11:11Starlab Space all of them are intended to reach orbit
- 11:15by the end of the decade and are still somewhat
- 11:17reliant on NASA as a paying customer. The ISS will
- 11:22leave behind an important legacy, says Bill Nelson, who is
- 11:25formerly a US Senator and a Space Shuttle crew member
- 11:28as well as NASA's administrator from twenty twenty twenty one
- 11:33to twenty twenty five, and formalize the timeline for the
- 11:36nation's pivot to commercial space stations. Quote. The station has
- 11:40done incredible things, he says, from establishing how to live
- 11:44safely in space to exploring the promise in peril of
- 11:47microgravity environments. All the while, the ISS has been a
- 11:51shining beacon of global cooperation. NASA's shift from operator of
- 11:56the ISS to a tenant on space stations, Nelson's says,
- 12:00should help the agency focus on more innovative and daring
- 12:04explorations deeper in the Solar System. It's part of the
- 12:07evolution of space, he adds. It used to be all government.
- 12:11Now we have commercial partners and international partners. Some have
- 12:15argued that the ISS could still have a long life
- 12:18ahead if it were to be boosted to a higher
- 12:20orbit where it could endure intact for decades or centuries. Quote.
- 12:25I think it's the most amazing thing humanity has ever constructed,
- 12:28says Greg Autry, a space policy expert at the University
- 12:31of Central Florida. It's kind of like deorbiting Buckingham Palace.
- 12:36It's an amazing historical structure and it should be recognized
- 12:39for that. NASA, however, determined that rescuing the ISS would
- 12:43be too costly and complex. Instead, the space agency opted
- 12:47to pay SpaceX nearly a billion dollars to develop a
- 12:51vehicle that will push the station back into Earth's atmosphere
- 12:54in twenty thirty one, leaving China's Tiangong Space Station as
- 12:58the only government run an outpost in orbit. By the
- 13:02time that happens, multiple commercial space stations could be active.
- 13:07Haven one, the first of them, is a singular camp
- 13:10or van sized structure that will be launched on a
- 13:13SpaceX Falcon nine rocket. Initially lofted uncrewed, the station will
- 13:19offer stays of up to ten days for both governmental
- 13:21and private sector visitors, all of whom are planned to
- 13:25reach Haven One via a SpaceX driving capsule. The cost
- 13:29of a private booking is undisclosed at present. Quote. Our
- 13:33core business model is eighty five percent sovereign space agencies,
- 13:37including NASA, and then maybe fifteen percent private individuals, says
- 13:42out on Board four, occupants will have private sleeping berths
- 13:47with inflatable beds, a domed window to observe Earth, and
- 13:51high speed Internet provided by SpaceX's Starlink service. A built
- 13:55in science lab will allow them to conduct research at
- 13:58the station. Ie one is a precursor to a much
- 14:01bigger construct planned by Vast called Haven two, which is
- 14:05expected to launch by the time the ISS is abandoned.
- 14:08Haven two will comprise multiple Haven one style modules arranged
- 14:13in a cross shape to enable a continuous human presence
- 14:17in orbit, rather than short stays like Haven one will host.
- 14:21It will be joined by the other commercial ventures Axiom Station,
- 14:24Blue Origins, Orbital REEF and Starlab. New priorities may come
- 14:30with any new private era in Earth orbit. Whereas the
- 14:33ISS was notionally a station focused on science, private habitats
- 14:39will inevitably have a broader purview, from acting as proverbial
- 14:43space hotels to being manufacturing hubs for products imported back
- 14:48to Earth. Quote, you can make much better silicon crystals
- 14:53for semiconductors in space, says Autry, listing one of several
- 14:57perennial arguments for more industrial activity in orbit. Quote, there
- 15:01are a lot of different economic drivers that I think
- 15:03will eventually pay off, and the space tourism business will
- 15:07be much larger than most people believe in quote. Autrey
- 15:11points to Blue Origins new Shepherd rocket, which launches paying
- 15:15customers straight up and down on suborbital rides lasting just
- 15:19ten minutes, but has already flown about eighty people, including
- 15:22some repeat customers. There's a really strong demand, he says,
- 15:26arguing that an increase in rides to space and destinations
- 15:30to reach shows space tourism can absolutely be as accessible
- 15:34as other extreme environments such as the deep sea. Quote,
- 15:38there's no reason you can't get suborbital ticket prices into
- 15:42the thousands of dollars and orbital ticket prices under a
- 15:45million dollars, he says, I think it will happen in
- 15:47the next ten to twenty years. Quote. What role science
- 15:51will play on commercial space stations will to some degree
- 15:54depend on the tools customers can use on board. Already,
- 15:58the major players have suggested that an assortment of relevant,
- 16:01high grade laboratory equipment will be the norm Fabrizio Fiore,
- 16:06and astrophysicist at the Astronomical Observatory of Trieste in Italy,
- 16:12says this means more opportunities for scientists to conduct research
- 16:16that was logistically impossible on the ISS. Quote. Even putting
- 16:21a small thing on the ISS is very, very time
- 16:23consuming and difficulty. Says, if we're going to have space
- 16:26stations that are not dedicated to governmental astronauts, it'll be
- 16:30much easier to build experiments on them. Research institutions and
- 16:37universities could increase their access to space two, perhaps by
- 16:40sending their own astronauts. Earlier this year, For example, Purdue
- 16:45University booked tickets for a twenty twenty seven flight on
- 16:48Virgin Galactic's suborbital space plane for a pair of its researchers.
- 16:53It's not unfathomable to think the same might occur on
- 16:57commercial space stations, especially if the cost of visiting them
- 17:00can be brought down to a reasonable level. In the
- 17:04bigger picture, some see the rise of private space stations
- 17:07as part of a turning point for life itself. Caleb Sharf,
- 17:11an astrobiologist in the US, argues in his new book
- 17:14The Giant Leap that space exploration is a next step
- 17:18in the evolution of humankind. Quote. The capacity to put
- 17:21objects into orbit around Earth and study Earth from space.
- 17:25Is this unique perspective that no other organism has ever
- 17:29had in the history of life on Earth in the
- 17:31last four billion years, he says. Quote getting into space
- 17:35is another major evolutionary transition point. You can imagine if
- 17:39we do spread out across the Solar System in the
- 17:42centuries to come, that will induce fundamental changes on us
- 17:46as a species. It will dilute us, it will disperse us.
- 17:50We will undergo speciation. While we now call ourselves humans
- 17:54as a single species, the future may be many species
- 17:58that were derived from what we are today. Commercial space stations,
- 18:03Sharf says, might be the next step in this journey,
- 18:06but he's not quite ready to buy a ticket or
- 18:08the hype. Quote. Maybe we'll learn that commercial space stations
- 18:12are the best thing ever, he says. Or perhaps we'll
- 18:14discover that this isn't actually the be all and end all.
- 18:17It's absolutely possible that commercial space stations, for economic or
- 18:22financial reasons, do not yield what is expected or hopedote.
- 18:27By the end of the decade, humans are also planned
- 18:29to return to the Moon in competing efforts, when led
- 18:32by the US and the other led by China. Ian Crawford,
- 18:36a planetary scientist at Birkbeck University of London, has previously
- 18:41argued that space stations can be a distraction from this endeavor. Quote.
- 18:45To talk about space exploration properly, we have to move
- 18:48away from low Earth orbit, he says, how space hotels
- 18:52and Earth orbit really feed into that. I don't know.
- 18:56Whatever direction these new stations take, they will mark the
- 18:59end of a history experiment. A full quarter century and
- 19:02counting of humans living and working off world the feet
- 19:07is all the more remarkable for how unremarkable it now appears.
- 19:11More than forty percent of all the people on Earth
- 19:13are younger than the ISS, having never known a world
- 19:17without it. For many of them, the station's quiet technical
- 19:20triumph of unbroken orbital occupation is understandably banal, boring, and routine.
- 19:27That is to say, like so many wondrous things we
- 19:29take for granted, it seems the ISS won't really be
- 19:32understood for its good until it's gone. And now we're
- 19:38going to turn to the BBC Science Focus magazine and
- 19:42they have for their question of the month, how many
- 19:46spiders are in my house. Pest control companies will often
- 19:51give a figure of forty spiders in an average house,
- 19:54but it's hard to find anything in the published literature
- 19:56that directly backs this up. Sixteen shis study of fifty
- 20:00houses in North Carolina, US found cobweb spiders in sixty
- 20:05five percent of all rooms sampled, but this was looking
- 20:08at biodiversity and didn't count the number of individual spiders.
- 20:12If a typical house has five or six rooms plus hallways,
- 20:15the average figure would be around ten spiders per room,
- 20:18which seems like a lot. To add some research of
- 20:20my own. I've just hovered or hoovered I'm sorry, hoovered
- 20:25with a vacuum my entire house, a rare event, and
- 20:28only found twenty six spiders. But that's just the parts
- 20:31of the house that we can easily scrutinize. If you
- 20:33consider under the floorboards, behind the fridge, the law off
- 20:36the garage, and so on, there could easily be that
- 20:38many more still hiding if we consider the average density
- 20:42of spiders outdoors. A widely sighted figure from Kneifeler and
- 20:46Berkhoff's twenty seventeen paper is one hundred and thirty one
- 20:50spiders per square meter. That's of the order of ten
- 20:55quadrillion spiders worldwide, or about a million spiders for every human.
- 21:00A typical house has actually relatively little spider food available,
- 21:06but it also has almost none of a spider's main predator,
- 21:09such as centipedes and birds, so each spider may live
- 21:12longer indoors than out. Spiders also lay anything from ten
- 21:18to two hundred and fifty eggs at a time, and
- 21:20house spiders may lay as many as five clutches per year.
- 21:24Less than one percent will reach adulthood, but even so,
- 21:26if we count baby spiders in our household population census,
- 21:30the figure may be as many as a couple thousand
- 21:33spiders at any one time. And now we'll go to
- 21:39BBC Wildlife for an article written by James Fair dated
- 21:44November third, and the headline is people are cynical about
- 21:48making money out of nature. We desperately need to rewild
- 21:51the world, but who's going to foot the bill. The
- 21:55fields at Slight Farm near Bath in England are not
- 21:58much to look at. Is bare earth and deeply rutted,
- 22:02reminiscent of land that has been subjected to the rootling
- 22:05behavior of wild boares. This says environmental consultant Dominic. Woodfield
- 22:10was the most rubbish, overgrazed and compacted, and it's had
- 22:14fertilizers too. To start the process of ecological recovery, Woodfield
- 22:20site manager Simon Nash and farm manager James Fowles introduced
- 22:25a couple of Tamworth pigs to the field. The pig's
- 22:28rooting behavior creates ruts and exposes a soil, giving seeds
- 22:32other than grass the chance to germinate. Exactly what happens
- 22:36next the team isn't really sure, but the action of
- 22:38the pigs should be a kickstart precipitating natural processes that
- 22:42can bring the field back to life in time. One
- 22:45can imagine its supporting nesting skylarks, vole hunting barn owls,
- 22:50and the occasional mad march hare. This field is a
- 22:55perfect example of why the United Kingdom ranks in the
- 22:57bottom ten percent of all countries in bout, but it
- 23:01is also on the front line of a revolution because
- 23:04the transformation being plotted at Slight Farm isn't born purely
- 23:08out of altruism or from government subsidy, but because the
- 23:11landowners have received money from a developer. There is arguably
- 23:16no more extential question for the human race than how
- 23:19we halt and reverse declines in nature and wildlife. There
- 23:25is a basic premise that if we destroy nature, we
- 23:28destroy ourselves because we rely on it for so much food, water,
- 23:32protection from flooding, and mitigation of climate change. It was
- 23:36once thought the solution was a question of raising awareness though,
- 23:39for example, wild through for example, wildlife documentaries. Then there
- 23:44was hope that governments would sort things out through international agreements,
- 23:48and to a certain extent they did. The Rio Conference
- 23:51on Biodiversity in nineteen ninety two and the Paris Agreement
- 23:54of twenty fifteen were both hailed as game changers at
- 23:58the time. Yet none of this seems to have worked.
- 24:01In the past decade or so, a potential news savior
- 24:04has emerged, somewhat alarmingly. Perhaps it's the very same entity
- 24:08that has arguably played the biggest role in waking environmental
- 24:12destruction in the first place, the private sector companies, investors,
- 24:18pension funds. But this new funding model for nature has
- 24:21not taken off either, not yet anyway. Take the UN's
- 24:25RIEDD Plus program, which aims to help developing countries maintain
- 24:30carbon rich tropical forests by paying them not to chop
- 24:34them down. It was initially funded by international governments, but
- 24:37as long as a decade ago it was hoped that
- 24:40the private sector would step in and take on more
- 24:43of that burden. Sadly that hasn't happened, and after all,
- 24:47if the private sector doesn't have to contribute, then why
- 24:49should it. Some big companies like to demonstrate they are
- 24:53environmentally responsible by contributing too, for instance voluntary carbon offsetting scheme.
- 25:01The problem with such schemes is that they are often
- 25:03accused of being little more than greenwashing. In general, the
- 25:06money paid is a tiny percentage of turnover, and the
- 25:09schemes themselves often achieve only marginal benefits for the environment.
- 25:15But in England there is now a policy that requires
- 25:18developers to compensate for the nature lost to their development.
- 25:23It's called Biodiversity Net Gain or BNNG, and became mandatory
- 25:28in twenty twenty four. B NG is complex, but the
- 25:33legislation essentially requires developers to assess how much wildlife is
- 25:38on the land they are building on in the form
- 25:40of biodiversity units. They then either recreate the same number
- 25:45of units plus ten percent on site, or pay for
- 25:50enhancement or restoration of nature elsewhere. While BNG is being
- 25:54forced on developers, some business people see it as an opportunity.
- 25:58Take brothers Philip and Ds the Brainan, owners of the
- 26:02aforementioned Slight Farm, and co founders of Biofarm, a company
- 26:08that helps both landowners and private companies with BNG deals. Quote.
- 26:15Working in BNG appealed because it address three big issues,
- 26:19says Andy Brainan, climate and nature being in a disastrous state,
- 26:25the need to build more housing without harming nature, and
- 26:28farming becoming unviable for landowners. The Brainans are creating habitat banks,
- 26:37essentially parcels of enhanced nature, and selling the resulting biodiversity
- 26:42units to companies in need. Given the government's target to
- 26:46build three hundred thousand homes a year, it's estimated that
- 26:48annually BNG could result in the enhancement or restoration of
- 26:53fifteen thousand hectares of new wildlife habitat and drive one
- 26:58hundred and thirty five to two hundred and six many
- 27:00million euros into conservation. Or at least those were the
- 27:04figures that Labor recently announced it could ease or drop
- 27:08BMNG requirements for small and medium sized housebuilders, which could
- 27:12nearly have the amount of money going towards conservation. That
- 27:16is perhaps the biggest weakness of the policy. Again, if
- 27:18the private sector doesn't have to spend money enhancing wildlife,
- 27:22it probably won't. It's also not clear how the proposed
- 27:25Planning and Infrastructure Bill will impact the new policy. But
- 27:29what if you could persuade private sector companies that safeguarding
- 27:32biodiversity was in their interest rather than something being foisted
- 27:37upon them. That's the concept that Rebalance Earth, a boutique
- 27:41fund manager, is working on. Here's how it works. Pension
- 27:45funds need to invest clients money in something that will
- 27:48provide a return. That could be companies listed on the
- 27:51start market or government bonds. Managing director Robert Gardner believes
- 27:57Rebalance Earth can provide a return earned by investing in
- 28:01nature because the private sector is increasingly impacted by natural events.
- 28:06Well that's all for today's Diary of Science and Nature.
- 28:09Your reader was Kelly Taylor. Now stay tuned for further
- 28:12programming on RADIOI