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PROLIFIC: SERIAL KILLER CAUGHT ON TAPE: MORE BODIES? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: How many serial killers are walking amongst us? How many
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Speaker 2: serial killers yet to be caught? Has a prolific serial
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Speaker 2: killer been caught on tape? And are their more bodies
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Speaker 2: a Nancy Grace, This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:27
Speaker 2: being with us.
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Speaker 1: The search for Samantha Konig leads to a local park
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Speaker 1: as the kidnapper leaves a photo for police. What happened
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Speaker 1: to Samantha?
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Speaker 2: Little did Samantha's father know that photo that was left
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Speaker 2: along with a ransom note. It had Samantha a picture
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Speaker 2: with braids, and her dad immediately knew Samantha never wore
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Speaker 2: her hair like that. Little did her dad know at
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Speaker 2: the time he got the ransom note and he saw
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Speaker 2: the polaroid that Samantha was dead in the photo, her
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Speaker 2: eyes stitched open and makeup artfully applied. How many serial
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Speaker 2: killers are lurking amongst us? This guy is crayl Keys,
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Speaker 2: one of the most prolific serial killers to ever stalk
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Speaker 2: our country. Very rarely is a serial killer caught on tape.
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Speaker 2: But listen to this.
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Speaker 3: Shoes out on the river and it's like a river
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Speaker 3: you can flow down. I think people will do it
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Speaker 3: on inner tewers and so and it's just paint. It's
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Speaker 3: this more remote spot. She was like the last one
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Speaker 3: in her group, grabbing durn Polar shore.
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Speaker 2: He speaks of abducting one of his first victims. So
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Speaker 2: casually you are hearing the voice of a prolific serial
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Speaker 2: killer that's taught our country for so long, and the
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Speaker 2: bodies weren't even connected. Authorities didn't realize one guy is
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Speaker 2: responsible for a murder wave. Joining me an all star
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Speaker 2: panel before I let you hear more of the prolific
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Speaker 2: serial killer Israel Keys. I want to introduce a longtime
2:39
Speaker 2: friend and colleague. As you may know, I was on
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Speaker 2: HLN for many many years and one of our star
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Speaker 2: producers was Andrew Eiden aka Drew Eiden, who joins us tonight.
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Speaker 2: He is now co host of the Deviant podcast. Andrew,
3:01
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us, Thanks for having men
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Speaker 2: Thissrael Keys. Do you hear how casually he's describing He says,
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Speaker 2: she was out on the river, a river you can
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Speaker 2: float down with enerviews, and she was near the end.
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Speaker 2: It's just like the slowest gazelle, Drew. The slowest gazelle
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Speaker 2: is the one the hyena grabs yep, And that's exactly
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Speaker 2: what he does. I mean, if a hyena could talk,
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Speaker 2: it would be him. And he so casually grabs, like
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Speaker 2: describes grabbing her as the rest of the group goes await,
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Speaker 2: it's like, you know, yeah, drophe McDonald's, I got a
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Speaker 2: diet coke?
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Speaker 4: Yeah?
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Speaker 2: Are you surprised? And how casual he is.
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Speaker 4: It's it's really shocking. Honestly, when you listen to when
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Speaker 4: you listen to the hours of his conversations with authorities,
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Speaker 4: the thing that is so mind boggling is the is
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Speaker 4: the callous, cold, detached demeanor with which he outlines all
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Speaker 4: of his car and even some of the crimes that
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Speaker 4: he doesn't really confess to right he What we learned
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Speaker 4: listening to him talk to police is that he loves
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Speaker 4: to walk right up to the edge of a confession
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Speaker 4: and then stop right short of giving them the information
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Speaker 4: they need.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on true aka Andrew Eiden hold on just
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Speaker 2: a moment. We talked about this over and over on
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Speaker 2: the NG Show at Ahlman. Let me go to Daryl
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Speaker 2: Cohen Darryl Cohen, courum superstar, former felony prosecutor, now a
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Speaker 2: defense attorney. You can find him at Cohen Cooper EASTEP
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Speaker 2: and Allen Darryl. How many times did we have I mean,
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Speaker 2: a full fledged criminal, just a bad guy and he,
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Speaker 2: and it's typically a he. People say, why do you
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Speaker 2: hate man? I don't hate man. I just hate men
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Speaker 2: that commit violent crimes. He would go all the way
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Speaker 2: up to the moment and say something like, yeah, we
5:00
Speaker 2: were driving along and I looked out at the wind
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Speaker 2: and I heard a gun shot and at that moment,
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Speaker 2: that one critical moment. As Andrew is describing Leji all
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Speaker 2: the way up to the moment of the murder and
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Speaker 2: then backs off Nancy.
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Speaker 5: So often because most or at least many of those
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Speaker 5: who have committed these enus crimes cannot admit it to themselves.
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Speaker 5: They believe that what they were doing was a story.
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Speaker 5: They were the fairy tale. They were wonderful people. And
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Speaker 5: oh my gosh, I don't know how that happened. The
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Speaker 5: gun went off. I didn't have the gun, did I really? Maybe? Sure?
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Speaker 5: Maybe perhaps these people?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, was that me that pulled the trigger. And you
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Speaker 2: know another thing, and I want to know if you've
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Speaker 2: noticed this. Babi Chacone is joining a special agent FBI.
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Speaker 2: Former special agent now screenwriter for Criminal Minds, and I
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Speaker 2: want to clue you into a new documentary you can find.
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Speaker 2: It's called After the Fall Little Old Did Bobby and
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Speaker 2: I know we were both in New York the day
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Speaker 2: of September eleven, and this is his painstakingly put together
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Speaker 2: documentary about that day. Bobby Chacone also helped fish the
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Speaker 2: body as I recall, dismembered in black plastic trash bags
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Speaker 2: out of an icy lake. It was you there, you
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Speaker 2: go on top of that ice, trying to pull up
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Speaker 2: the body parts of that Alaskan burist to cement the Koenig.
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Speaker 2: That was you, Bobby Chacone. What do you make of
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Speaker 2: what Drew was telling us about how Israel keys the
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Speaker 2: serial killer will go all the way up to the
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Speaker 2: point of the murder and then back off. And you
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Speaker 2: know what I've noticed also, Bobby, as you and I
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Speaker 2: have discussed, they very often want admit that they sexually
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Speaker 2: assaulted a victim, rape, sonomy, the whole thing. They leave
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Speaker 2: that part out. It's like they're more worried about that
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Speaker 2: than they are about the murder.
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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really interesting where they draw the lines, right,
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Speaker 6: because they're so irrational when you try to figure out
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Speaker 6: the lines they want to draw. In this particular case,
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Speaker 6: when we were going up there to recover Samantha, we
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Speaker 6: were told that she had been dismembered and she was
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Speaker 6: in five separate pieces weighted down. But we were also
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Speaker 6: told that Keys made a demand that he did not
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Speaker 6: want that part of it leaked. He didn't want the
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Speaker 6: part that she had been dismembered leaked to the press,
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Speaker 6: so we had to be very careful. Normally we recover
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Speaker 6: a victim like this, we would bring each body part
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Speaker 6: up in a separate body bag for the medical examiner.
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Speaker 6: They don't like the commingled when they do their analysis.
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Speaker 6: But in this case we put Samantha oll in one
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Speaker 6: bag and brought it to the surface because the media
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Speaker 6: was at the shorelines with cameras and stuff, and we
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Speaker 6: didn't want to clue them in because Keys made that
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Speaker 6: demand that he didn't mind know that getting out there,
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Speaker 6: that you know, he sexual assaultant and murdered her, but
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Speaker 6: he didn't want his eleven year old daughter to know
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Speaker 6: that he had dismembered her. Really strange line that these
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Speaker 6: guys draw sometimes.
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Speaker 2: In security cam at the coffee shop where she worked.
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Speaker 2: It was a little pop up in the middle of
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Speaker 2: a parking lot. Really there is a shopping center around it,
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Speaker 2: a strip center, but the snow was so high at
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Speaker 2: that time no one within the center saw Keys approach
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Speaker 2: the pop up. These are the last known images of
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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig, who was thrilled about the possibility of becoming
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Speaker 2: a veterinarian making money there at the coffee shop. I
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Speaker 2: guess he didn't want his daughter or anyone else to
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Speaker 2: know that he dismembered her. As to the sex attack,
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Speaker 2: that he blared loud music so no one inside the
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Speaker 2: home could hear him out in a hut outdoors raping her.
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Speaker 2: No one could hear cement the screaming. And I guess
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Speaker 2: did he not want Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, renowned psychoanalyst,
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Speaker 2: author of deal Breaker and star of Paris in Love.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany interesting that he didn't want anyone to know
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Speaker 2: he had dismembered Samantha, and Samantha is one of many.
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Speaker 2: That's how I found out about Israel Keys is through
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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig investigation, and through Bobby Chicone and now through
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Speaker 2: Andrew Iiden. But it's interesting, doctor Bethany the choices serial
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Speaker 2: killers make about what they want publicized and what they
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Speaker 2: want to keep secret.
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Speaker 7: You know, it makes sense to me, Nancy, the questions
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Speaker 7: you've been asking, because first of all, he starts to
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Speaker 7: tell the story to the investigators and then he backs off.
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Speaker 7: I think he's doing that because he's trying to create
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Speaker 7: some excitement in the room and trying to kind of
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Speaker 7: tease them like cat and mouse. Look, the excitement he
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Speaker 7: had before was raping and killing. This is like small potatoes.
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Speaker 7: It's all he can get, but he's going to get
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Speaker 7: it as much as he he can. In the interview,
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Speaker 7: the fact that he is leaving out the sex assaults
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Speaker 7: is because he's trying to minimize the heinous nature of
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Speaker 7: what he did, and he doesn't want the public to
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Speaker 7: know that he dismembered Samantha Koenig because psychopaths are grandiose.
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Speaker 7: You know, he may feel that he's saying that he
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Speaker 7: doesn't want his daughter to find out, but I think
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Speaker 7: there's an inherent narcissism in psychopaths that's a part of
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Speaker 7: the disorder, and on some level, they sort of feel
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Speaker 7: proud of their acts. They feel they have fantasies that
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Speaker 7: they maybe celebrated, may go down in history, but oh
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Speaker 7: this dismember part doesn't make him look so good. So
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Speaker 7: he's kind trying to prop up his image a little bit.
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Speaker 2: There, going down in history, He's going nowhere but straight
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Speaker 2: to hell.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Back to you, Darryl Cohen talking about this guy trying
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Speaker 2: to build suspense as he tells his story. Normally I
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Speaker 2: would tell somebody that said that, well, you're crazy, because
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Speaker 2: most criminals are really dumb. They're not building suspense, they're
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Speaker 2: just idiots. This guy eluded police for decades. He had
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Speaker 2: killed kits hidden all over the country. He was never caught.
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Speaker 2: He had multiple mos modus operadi method of operation. He
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Speaker 2: would stalk campgrounds, he would stalk RV camps, he would
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Speaker 2: hang out at rivers like the victim we were just
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Speaker 2: hearing about. But then you've got a case like Samantha Koenig.
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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy probably is did lead authorities on
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Speaker 2: as he was telling his story.
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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, he knew exactly what he was doing. He
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Speaker 5: was both bright, he was cunning, he was intelligent, vicious,
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Speaker 5: and a sociopath, a psychopath. He was all the paths
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Speaker 5: other than a good one, he knew how to elude
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Speaker 5: the police. He also knew how to elude all the
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Speaker 5: other law enforcement agencies. Because he didn't do it every day,
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Speaker 5: every week, every month. There was no pattern to his pattern,
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Speaker 5: if that makes any sense. So he was able to.
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Speaker 2: I can tell you this much. I guarantee you there
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Speaker 2: are more bodies. What can we learn? What can we
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Speaker 2: glean from hearing? You'll have to hold your nose to
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Speaker 2: do it, but listen to Israel.
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Speaker 3: Depends what your definitely said. So the first time you
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Speaker 3: had sex with somebody against their room, No, but that
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Speaker 3: was the first time I answered.
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Speaker 8: That level, like had someone tied up, you know, like
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Speaker 8: I was ready to actually kill.
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Speaker 9: Up to do that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, did you hear what he just said? And by
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Speaker 2: the way, he's laughing and snickering during the whole thing.
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Speaker 2: Was this the first time he sex assaulted somebody?
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Speaker 10: Uh?
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Speaker 2: No, but it's the first time I took it to
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Speaker 2: that level, like to kill them. Yeah, to do that.
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Speaker 2: And he's laughing, he's snickering as he is saying that.
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Speaker 2: But let's let's take it back. How long had this
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Speaker 2: guy been committing murders? Listens?
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Speaker 8: Like I said, I got out of the Army, and
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Speaker 8: anytime i'd get to where I had downtime, or you know,
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Speaker 8: if I if I would leave Nia Bay, get out
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Speaker 8: of Nian Bay, and all that stuff was still there.
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Speaker 8: You know, like every time i'd drive and make a
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Speaker 8: drive somewhere, I'd be looking for places, good places to
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Speaker 8: do stuff.
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Speaker 2: I guarantee you to Andrew Iden, now, co host of
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Speaker 2: Deviant Podcast, I guarantee you there are more dead bodies
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Speaker 2: out there we haven't found yet, but the fact that
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Speaker 2: he was in the army. Has he been traced back
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Speaker 2: to wherever he was stationed, and has there been a
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Speaker 2: search for missing women, because it's always occasionally there'll be
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Speaker 2: a murdered man who was with a woman, but he
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Speaker 2: typically prayed on those that were weaker, less powerful, less
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Speaker 2: cunning than he. Andrew, have we heard of any searches
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Speaker 2: in the various places where he was stationed.
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Speaker 4: So what I can tell you is that the FBI
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Speaker 4: and all of the agencies that have been involved in
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Speaker 4: this case from the jump, they've gone to extreme lengths
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Speaker 4: to track down and talk to people that knew keys
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Speaker 4: in the army, So they have infiltrated his entire unit.
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Speaker 4: They've talked to his friends, they've talked to his fellow soldiers,
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Speaker 4: so they've gone into that corner of his life to
14:55
Speaker 4: see if they can flip over some rocks and see
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Speaker 4: if there's anything to find. The other thing that I
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Speaker 4: can tell you is that when you talk to the FBI,
15:01
Speaker 4: you know that video of Israel Keys in that interrogation
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Speaker 4: room that's dated twenty twelve. However, this case is still
15:08
Speaker 4: considered active and open. When you talk to the FBI
15:10
Speaker 4: about it, they are very clear, we need information. Is
15:14
Speaker 4: this a guy that's ever come across your radar. There's
15:16
Speaker 4: so much still that we don't know. So this is
15:19
Speaker 4: not a case that is just in the rear view.
15:21
Speaker 4: This is still very much an active investigator.
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Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig, a beautiful young barista at an Alaska and
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Speaker 2: coffee stand, suddenly goes missing that evening. Her father realizes
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Speaker 2: it's way too late for her to have been gone
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Speaker 2: all day and not spoken to him, and he raises
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Speaker 2: the alarm. Samantha Koenig just one of so so many victims.
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Speaker 2: I'm wanting to hear him speaking about how he finds
15:51
Speaker 2: his victims.
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Speaker 9: I'ms out looking for trouble and that place that there's
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Speaker 9: staked out one actually two or three nights, and then
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Speaker 9: I had a park, a couple of parks here in town.
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Speaker 6: That I could ride my bike too at those staked out.
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Speaker 9: And yeah, there's still a couple downs during on a
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Speaker 9: shovel stashed.
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Speaker 2: Then he's describing one of his many, many kill kits
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Speaker 2: that he had stashed all around the country. Andrew Iden,
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Speaker 2: host of Deviant Podcast, explained.
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Speaker 4: This is a guy that would bury home deboat buckets
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Speaker 4: full of Dreno guns, ropes, chains. He'd bury them in Vermont,
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Speaker 4: he'd bury them in Wisconsin. He buried them in Wyoming.
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Speaker 4: And he would do that years in advance, and so
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Speaker 4: you know, he'd bury these, go back to Alaska, live
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Speaker 4: his life for days, weeks, months, years, and then go
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Speaker 4: back to Vermont, dig up that bucket, take it to Essex, Vermont.
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Speaker 4: And ultimately when he killed the couriers Bill in the rain,
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Speaker 4: you know that was with a kill kit that he
17:02
Speaker 4: had buried years ahead of time. So that's really the
17:05
Speaker 4: crux of this meticulous nature that we talk about.
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Speaker 2: And you know, Bobby Chacone joining us, former special agent
17:10
Speaker 2: with the FBI, screenwriter his new documentary After the Fall,
17:16
Speaker 2: which is an amazing word regarding nine to onein one.
17:20
Speaker 2: He and I'm both in New York the day of
17:22
Speaker 2: September eleven. His story is amazing. After the fall, Bobby
17:28
Speaker 2: talking about what Andrew Iiden is describing, It's hard to
17:34
Speaker 2: catch a guy like this. There's no connection to the victims,
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Speaker 2: which that makes it a n Eela and Haystack start
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Speaker 2: with he is killing people all across the country. There's
17:45
Speaker 2: no region that has been immune to israel keys. And
17:49
Speaker 2: he hunts his prey like a wolf. And then he
17:54
Speaker 2: has these kill kits already created and hidden buried all
17:59
Speaker 2: around the country.
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Speaker 6: Sure, and from an investigator standpoint, think of it because
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Speaker 6: we've seen cases where when you see when we find
18:05
Speaker 6: a victim that's bound with rope or chain or something
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Speaker 6: like that, and we can tell, oh, this might have
18:10
Speaker 6: been bought at a nearby, say home depot or hardware store.
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Speaker 6: We go out and we ask them to look at
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Speaker 6: their video from the last three months, six months, whatever.
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Speaker 6: Think about that. He's actually avoiding that investigative step because
18:21
Speaker 6: these things will purchase probably years in advance and hidden,
18:24
Speaker 6: So he knew not to buy these things locally and
18:27
Speaker 6: not to buy them recently. But because that's what investigators
18:29
Speaker 6: do because often we see, oh, they trace the received
18:32
Speaker 6: or they trace something that was bought at a home depot,
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Speaker 6: and there's the killer on the video in the home
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Speaker 6: depot buying the things that they use it. So he
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Speaker 6: knew to avoid that. When I went to that homicide school,
18:41
Speaker 6: I was working so many mafia cases in New York
18:43
Speaker 6: that they sent me to the NMBD homicide School. You
18:45
Speaker 6: draw a ven diagram. One circle contains the life of
18:48
Speaker 6: the victim and all the people involved in that life,
18:51
Speaker 6: and the other one, the other circle is the geographic
18:54
Speaker 6: location where the victim is found or murdered and where
18:57
Speaker 6: those two overlap. That's where your pool of suspect might
19:00
Speaker 6: come in. Now he's new to stay random to his
19:03
Speaker 6: victim and random to the geographic location. That puts him
19:07
Speaker 6: outside of most In ninety five percent of the investigative
19:11
Speaker 6: avenues that you're going to follow, he's going to be
19:13
Speaker 6: outside of those because he's not related to the victim.
19:15
Speaker 6: He doesn't have what most serial killers have. He doesn't
19:18
Speaker 6: have that victimology and he doesn't have the geographic kill zone.
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Speaker 6: So those two things he knew to avoid and to
19:25
Speaker 6: stay random and that was a big part of his success.
19:28
Speaker 2: Yes, because in many, many cases where we have serial killers,
19:31
Speaker 2: their mo never deviates. They are in the same region.
19:36
Speaker 2: There is a way to connect them to their victims.
19:39
Speaker 2: You know, he's been stalking them. He's the grocery store boy,
19:42
Speaker 2: he delivery guy, the yard man. There is a way,
19:48
Speaker 2: even though tangentle, that you can connect the killer to
19:52
Speaker 2: multiple victims. Not in this case. Speaking of Israel Keys,
19:57
Speaker 2: listen from the horse's mouth.
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Speaker 6: Well, it's not in anything, it's just ropes or something pulldment.
20:03
Speaker 6: Is that the milk jugs? And he said, well that's
20:05
Speaker 6: what the waits for. Milk jokes.
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Speaker 2: How many milk jugs and they're going to move around, no,
20:12
Speaker 2: how many milk chokes.
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Speaker 3: You're talking about it.
20:17
Speaker 6: At least four or five hour tank just for one body.
20:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's Scott Peterson. You didn't have to go
20:29
Speaker 2: to all that trouble making those cement blocks to wait
20:32
Speaker 2: down the body of your wife, Lacy Peterson and her
20:35
Speaker 2: unborn son Connor. You know, take a page out of
20:38
Speaker 2: Israel Key's book. You just use milk jugs. You know,
20:43
Speaker 2: when you think of the callous nature of the planning,
20:48
Speaker 2: the pre planning before your victim has even been murdered,
20:53
Speaker 2: You're already planning to weight down their body in water
21:00
Speaker 2: to hide the body or destroy evidence. What could be
21:05
Speaker 2: more cold, more calculating. Just think about it. As he
21:09
Speaker 2: is spotting these victims, he's already made weights to hold
21:15
Speaker 2: their bodies down underwater. Joining me now a very special guest,
21:20
Speaker 2: a renowned medical examiner, the chief medical examiner at Terrence County.
21:25
Speaker 2: That's fort worth, never a lack of business for him.
21:28
Speaker 2: Also a prestigious lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine
21:33
Speaker 2: at TCU, Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank you
21:37
Speaker 2: for being with us. When a body is weighted down
21:40
Speaker 2: in this manner, as you hear Israel Key say, so deep,
21:46
Speaker 2: the fish don't even go down that far. He has
21:49
Speaker 2: this very well planned. With the body down at the
21:52
Speaker 2: bottom of a body of water, what will that do
21:57
Speaker 2: to the evidence? Over a period of time.
22:00
Speaker 11: In the depths of a lake, the body will continue
22:03
Speaker 11: to decompose. If it's cold, it'll decompose at a slower rate.
22:07
Speaker 11: But you'll also get fish and other aquatic creatures that
22:11
Speaker 11: will eat at the body. So eventually the body will skeletonize.
22:15
Speaker 11: The problem is with weighting the body down. You have
22:18
Speaker 11: to have enough weight to compensate for when the body
22:21
Speaker 11: decomposes and the gas formation begins, the body will bloat
22:25
Speaker 11: or swell up like a balloon, and then will float
22:28
Speaker 11: back up to the top of the surface. I've seen
22:30
Speaker 11: people weighted down with paint cans that still float up,
22:34
Speaker 11: cinder blocks, they'll still float up. Even a gentleman that
22:37
Speaker 11: was wrapped in a carpet and shoved in a trash
22:39
Speaker 11: can that was a duct tape shut. He still bobbed
22:43
Speaker 11: up once he decomposed enough. So you have to have
22:46
Speaker 11: enough weight to compensate for the decomposition, and they'll still
22:49
Speaker 11: float up. But if they're underneath the water for a
22:52
Speaker 11: long enough period of time, they will decompose, skeletonize, and
22:55
Speaker 11: all the evidence will disappear.
22:57
Speaker 10: James Koenig tries to be patient, but by twelve thirty
23:00
Speaker 10: PM he's on the phone with the Anchorage Police Department
23:03
Speaker 10: reporting his eighteen year old daughter, Samantha missing. He tells
23:06
Speaker 10: police his daughter never came home the night before from
23:08
Speaker 10: her job at common Grounds Espresso. Patrol Officers begin asking
23:12
Speaker 10: questions in the area. No signs of a break in,
23:14
Speaker 10: no struggle, no blood. Getting a look at surveillance video,
23:18
Speaker 10: police see a masked man jumping through the window of
23:20
Speaker 10: common Grounds and leading Samantha away.
23:23
Speaker 2: Samantha Koenig's case brought a great deal of notoriety to
23:28
Speaker 2: the killer. Little did authorities realize at the time of
23:31
Speaker 2: her disappearance they were dealing with a very cunning serial killer.
23:37
Speaker 10: Listen just before eight pm closing time at common Grounds
23:40
Speaker 10: Coffee in Anchorage, Alaska, Israel, Keys walks up to the
23:43
Speaker 10: parking lot kiosk and orders an Americano coffee. Eighteen year
23:46
Speaker 10: old Samantha Koenig is finishing up her shift and it
23:49
Speaker 10: looks like Keyes might be her last customer. Turning to
23:52
Speaker 10: hand the man his coffee, Samantha Konig sees the gun
23:55
Speaker 10: in his hand. Keys tells her it's robbery. To turn
23:57
Speaker 10: off the lights. Keys reaches in and quickly at zip
23:59
Speaker 10: top Cunning's hands behind her back and climbs through the
24:02
Speaker 10: window into the kiosk.
24:05
Speaker 2: And what is so amazing here? To doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoalyays,
24:09
Speaker 2: joining us out of la is this is brazen There
24:14
Speaker 2: as you can see are parking lights illuminating the area.
24:22
Speaker 2: It's right on a very busy thoroughfare street. There's a
24:27
Speaker 2: huge snowbank about six to twelve feet tall surrounding the
24:32
Speaker 2: coffee shop. So many people didn't see what was going on.
24:36
Speaker 2: But that takes a lot of hootspot to go in
24:41
Speaker 2: where people can see you and attack the barista and
24:47
Speaker 2: lead her out.
24:48
Speaker 7: Nancy Israel Keys was becoming increasingly emboldened to act out
24:54
Speaker 7: his sexual fantasies, his killing fantasies with these victims. So
24:59
Speaker 7: he starts out in the army, you know, just kind
25:01
Speaker 7: of trolling around looking for possible sites. But this becomes
25:05
Speaker 7: a compulsion that's so deeply baked into his DNA that
25:10
Speaker 7: he's thinking about it all the time, and it becomes
25:13
Speaker 7: very ritualized. The search extends to all over the United States,
25:17
Speaker 7: and it's almost as satisfying to search for victims to
25:22
Speaker 7: bury the kill kits as it is to actually act
25:26
Speaker 7: out the crime. But by the time he gets to
25:29
Speaker 7: Samantha Konig, he's graduated. It's where people could see him.
25:34
Speaker 7: He stitches her eyes open, he makes braids with her hair.
25:39
Speaker 7: He does it in a shed right outside his family home.
25:42
Speaker 7: So at this point It's like he's getting not only
25:47
Speaker 7: more and more emboldened, but it's like a sex addict
25:51
Speaker 7: that starts out going to strip clubs and then they
25:54
Speaker 7: kind of rape somebody and then pretty much they start
25:58
Speaker 7: graduating to children and kitty porn because they need more
26:02
Speaker 7: and more and more in order to excite them. And
26:07
Speaker 7: Nancy these interviews that we're seeing, I think he's talking
26:11
Speaker 7: sort of calmly and matter of fact because he imagines
26:15
Speaker 7: he's now the expert on killing. He's the world's leading expert.
26:20
Speaker 7: It's kind of like a car collector who maybe has
26:23
Speaker 7: two hundred cars and he's walking someone around and said,
26:26
Speaker 7: you know, this one is made in nineteen sixty eight
26:28
Speaker 7: and this is special stitching, and look at the paint job,
26:32
Speaker 7: and that person knows their stuff. Israel Key feels like
26:36
Speaker 7: he knows his stuff. So he's going to take time
26:39
Speaker 7: with his interview so he can kind of educate the world.
26:42
Speaker 7: Be the celebrity, be at the center of things. Like
26:44
Speaker 7: I said earlier, go down in history. This is a
26:48
Speaker 7: part of the ritual, is talking about it.
26:51
Speaker 2: And let's just cut the chase here to Bobby Chicoh
26:54
Speaker 2: and former Special Agent FBI and then to Drew Eiden,
26:58
Speaker 2: co host of Deviant Bobby Chaconne, you know that as
27:05
Speaker 2: he is telling his story to authorities, he's getting turned on.
27:10
Speaker 2: As he's sitting there underneath that table. I don't want
27:14
Speaker 2: to know what's under that table. I guarantee you. As
27:17
Speaker 2: he is telling his story, he's reliving the rapes and
27:21
Speaker 2: the murders.
27:23
Speaker 3: Oh sure.
27:24
Speaker 6: And you know that by his posture and by his attitude,
27:27
Speaker 6: his language. And I think he's enjoying the fact that
27:29
Speaker 6: several of the investigators in the room of women, and
27:33
Speaker 6: I think he's getting off on that as well. I
27:35
Speaker 6: think this is his As doctor Bethany mentioned earlier, this
27:38
Speaker 6: is kind of his last gasp. He knows he's he's no,
27:40
Speaker 6: he's not getting out, and what little joy he can get,
27:45
Speaker 6: his psychosexual joy he can get, is going.
27:48
Speaker 2: To come in this boy, Bobby, get real from a
27:52
Speaker 2: place as if you hadn't already been real. How many
27:55
Speaker 2: times have you sat across from a defendant light Keys?
27:58
Speaker 2: Actually I don't know that there is another defendant like Keys,
28:01
Speaker 2: but a definant similar to Keys. And you know, as
28:05
Speaker 2: you're talking to him and he's giving his story, he's
28:09
Speaker 2: getting turned on. I don't guess you need your mind
28:12
Speaker 2: to go to that extent about exactly what's happening under
28:17
Speaker 2: that table. But you know it's true. It's oh really
28:23
Speaker 2: because you and I know what a murder saying is
28:25
Speaker 2: really like. It's not like in the movies. It's horrible,
28:30
Speaker 2: but he likes it.
28:32
Speaker 6: Yeah, and at that point you I mean, you can
28:34
Speaker 6: see a candy bar that they brought to him, you know,
28:36
Speaker 6: on the table there. I mean, look, what what they're
28:39
Speaker 6: doing is they are hyper focused. You know, Nancy, there's
28:41
Speaker 6: a prosecutor in there that they're hyper focused at getting
28:44
Speaker 6: him on the record to say things that are going
28:46
Speaker 6: they're going to be able to use against him at a
28:48
Speaker 6: court in proceedings. So all of that other stuff is
28:51
Speaker 6: kind of you have to deal with it, but you
28:53
Speaker 6: kind of put it aside because you need to get
28:55
Speaker 6: the admissions, you need to get the confessions, you need
28:57
Speaker 6: to get the statements he's going to say out of
29:00
Speaker 6: his mouth. You can't kind of extrapolate it. You have
29:03
Speaker 6: to get him to say those things. So you ask
29:05
Speaker 6: him the question eight different times, get him to say
29:07
Speaker 6: the words I kill them, you know, and that kind
29:10
Speaker 6: of thing. So they're hyper focused on that and the
29:12
Speaker 6: rest of that stuff you just have to deal with
29:14
Speaker 6: kind of on the side in the background, and to
29:17
Speaker 6: get him.
29:17
Speaker 2: To okay, you know what, maybe you can set it aside,
29:20
Speaker 2: Bobby checkone. But Andrew Iden, the co host of a
29:26
Speaker 2: deviant podcast. Every time you play these caught on tape
29:32
Speaker 2: videos and audio, you know that as he is describing
29:38
Speaker 2: the rapes and the murders, he's really liiving it in
29:41
Speaker 2: his mind, and as doctor Bethany calls it, his arousal
29:48
Speaker 2: is full on. So just keep that in mind when
29:52
Speaker 2: you're watching him, because that's where he's coming from. That's
29:55
Speaker 2: the way his mind works. To rape and murder somebody
30:01
Speaker 2: and murder the husband and murder the boyfriend or whoever
30:04
Speaker 2: else is around. That's his idea of dinner the mode.
30:08
Speaker 6: Yeah.
30:08
Speaker 4: And in fact, you know, when you look at him
30:10
Speaker 4: having these conversations with law enforcement in the interrogation room,
30:13
Speaker 4: you can see that. And one of the things we
30:15
Speaker 4: learned in talking to Jeff Bell, who was a detective
30:18
Speaker 4: in that room with the Anchorage PD. He told us
30:21
Speaker 4: in the process of doing this this series is that
30:24
Speaker 4: the chair that Key sat in there was a there
30:27
Speaker 4: was a day that they were sitting in a wooden chair,
30:29
Speaker 4: and he said, Key scratched the wood off of the
30:32
Speaker 4: arms of the chair while he was retelling the story.
30:36
Speaker 4: And he said, you could see the hair on his
30:38
Speaker 4: arms standing up. And so it was apparent to Jeff Bell,
30:42
Speaker 4: who's writ in that video, that he was seeing this
30:45
Speaker 4: all unfold while Keys was telling him.
30:53
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
30:59
Speaker 2: Andrew. I I'm totally going to listen to every every
31:02
Speaker 2: single episode of Deviant because when you were just describing,
31:06
Speaker 2: is your Keys scratching the wood on the chair as
31:10
Speaker 2: he's telling the story Jackie, you know, Jackie and our
31:14
Speaker 2: producer actually had to get rid of the shivers are off.
31:21
Speaker 4: Yes, well, I was gonna say, I think oftentimes when
31:23
Speaker 4: we talk about these stories, oftentimes there's a lot of
31:25
Speaker 4: hyperbole involved and about in describing these things. But everything
31:30
Speaker 4: that Israel Keys is is a real life horror film
31:34
Speaker 4: from start to finish.
31:36
Speaker 6: I mean, look at Nancy. If you look at that
31:38
Speaker 6: video there you see on the left that Joline I
31:41
Speaker 6: believe that's Jolene the FBI case A check. But you
31:44
Speaker 6: can look at her posture, look at how she's you
31:46
Speaker 6: can almost see how how repulse she is by this,
31:50
Speaker 6: her hands are by her sides, by her sides, or
31:52
Speaker 6: hands are in her lives. I mean you, as a
31:55
Speaker 6: normal person, you know, being in the presence of such evil,
31:58
Speaker 6: you you're affected by you repulse by it.
32:01
Speaker 2: Of course, somebody like Israel Keys has to have the
32:06
Speaker 2: perfect let me just say, perfectly outfitted vehicle.
32:11
Speaker 10: Listen, the truck Israel Keys's driving has been temporarily modified.
32:16
Speaker 10: Before he left the house. He removed the permanent toolbox
32:19
Speaker 10: from the back and took off both license plates. Keys
32:21
Speaker 10: demand Samantha Cone give him her ATM card, but she
32:25
Speaker 10: tells him it's in the truck she shares with her
32:27
Speaker 10: boyfriend at their house. Keys drives to his house, ties
32:30
Speaker 10: up Coning in the shed, turns up the radio allows
32:33
Speaker 10: so nobody can hear her scream, then leaves to retrieve
32:35
Speaker 10: her ATM card from her truck. As Keys is retrieving
32:38
Speaker 10: the ATM card, Samantha Cooning's boyfriend sees him and shouts
32:42
Speaker 10: ducking into the house and get some help.
32:43
Speaker 1: He tries to.
32:44
Speaker 10: Confront the man messing with his truck, but when he
32:46
Speaker 10: comes out of the house, he's is gone.
32:49
Speaker 2: A narrow escape. But yes, he does escape, But what
32:52
Speaker 2: about Samantha. Listen.
32:53
Speaker 10: Samantha Coning is tied up in a shed in back
32:56
Speaker 10: of the home Israel Keys shares with his girlfriend and
32:59
Speaker 10: her daughter. When Keys arrives back at the shed, he
33:02
Speaker 10: sexually assaults Samantha Konik twice. Then first thing in the morning,
33:06
Speaker 10: he strangles her to death and puts her body in
33:08
Speaker 10: a freezer. Then leaves with his girlfriend for a prebooked
33:12
Speaker 10: family cruise vacation, leaving out of New Orleans.
33:15
Speaker 2: Okay, that's like putting the leftovers from dinner into the
33:19
Speaker 2: freezer then heading out on vacation. He did that to
33:23
Speaker 2: Samantha's body, but he wasn't done yet. Listen.
33:27
Speaker 10: Returning from his two week family vacation, Israel Keys removes
33:31
Speaker 10: the now frozen corpse of Samantha Konik, using a hairdryer
33:35
Speaker 10: to thaw her out. He uses makeup and braids her
33:38
Speaker 10: hair to take a proof of life photo he's going
33:40
Speaker 10: to use for the ransom. Taking a picture of Samantha,
33:43
Speaker 10: Israel Key's arm is seen holding a copy of the
33:46
Speaker 10: Anchorage Daily News from February twelfth. He places a black
33:49
Speaker 10: and white copy of the photo in his ziplock baggy
33:52
Speaker 10: with a ransom demand of thirty thousand dollars deposited into
33:55
Speaker 10: the account of Samantha Konik and tapes it to a
33:58
Speaker 10: missing dog poster in Connor's bog part.
34:03
Speaker 2: And then Samantha's father is led to that park where
34:06
Speaker 2: he sees the ransom photo and the money demand. Okay,
34:10
Speaker 2: let me understand, is Andrew Iden joining us co host
34:14
Speaker 2: of Deviant podcast. He uses a hair dryer to thaw
34:19
Speaker 2: out her body.
34:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, the details of what he did after he got
34:23
Speaker 4: back from that Houston that cruise are horrific. And disposing
34:29
Speaker 4: of her body in the lake after he had pulled
34:33
Speaker 4: her remains out of that shed, that period after the
34:37
Speaker 4: cruise for about two weeks is truly some of the
34:41
Speaker 4: most terrific things that I've ever read and never heard
34:43
Speaker 4: in covering crime for twenty years.
34:45
Speaker 2: What aspect are you describing? Are you to which you
34:49
Speaker 2: are referring Andrew.
34:50
Speaker 4: Well, it's the process of him dumping her body in
34:53
Speaker 4: the lake piece by piece and basically making sure that
34:58
Speaker 4: all of the things that he did are it up.
35:00
Speaker 4: And it's just it's horrific. I mean, it's a horror film.
35:04
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned before, Doctor Bethony jump In if.
35:06
Speaker 7: We think of raping and killing as a part of
35:08
Speaker 7: a sexual act for him, that the whole ritual is arousing.
35:12
Speaker 7: I think what happened is that he had to do
35:14
Speaker 7: it right before the cruise because he know that he
35:16
Speaker 7: knew that on the cruise he wouldn't be able to
35:19
Speaker 7: act out his killing homicidal instinct. It's a little bit
35:23
Speaker 7: like with alcoholics we see sometimes the night before they
35:26
Speaker 7: go into detox or rehab, they binge. This was like
35:30
Speaker 7: his binge before appearing with sobriety, and he was probably
35:34
Speaker 7: thinking about it all throughout the cruise and planning his return.
35:37
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, can't you look at a body and
35:40
Speaker 2: determine whether it has been frozen?
35:43
Speaker 11: You can look at a body and when someone dies
35:45
Speaker 11: of hyper hypothermia, you can tell that there are changes
35:49
Speaker 11: about the body that kind of turn a reddish pink color.
35:52
Speaker 11: If a body's been frozen, the lividity or the post
35:56
Speaker 11: mortem coloration change will be kind of a bright red color.
36:00
Speaker 11: But beyond that, there is not really any changes that
36:03
Speaker 11: you can see with a frozen body that are specific
36:07
Speaker 11: to that.
36:08
Speaker 10: After getting a confession from Israel Keys, the FBI dive
36:11
Speaker 10: team is tasked with attempting to recover Samantha Konig's body
36:15
Speaker 10: from frozen Mattatanuska Lake. Before a search can begin, a
36:19
Speaker 10: four foot by four foot hole is cut in the
36:21
Speaker 10: ice with chainsaws. The FBI dive team resorts to using
36:25
Speaker 10: sonar to guide them in low visibility, and it takes
36:28
Speaker 10: the team of experts about ten hours to recover the
36:30
Speaker 10: body of Samantha cone Enter.
36:33
Speaker 2: A former FBI special agent, Bobby Chacone, now screenwriter for
36:37
Speaker 2: Criminal Minds and creator of a new documentary After the Fall,
36:43
Speaker 2: Bobby described what it was like out there, what you
36:46
Speaker 2: went through try to retrieve Samantha Koenig's body.
36:51
Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, first of all, it was the brightest, clearest,
36:54
Speaker 6: most beautiful day. And that was the dichotomy of the situation,
36:57
Speaker 6: was that we were in this immensely beautiful location with
37:01
Speaker 6: the mountains and the snow, and we were doing this
37:03
Speaker 6: horrific mission to recover this poor young woman. You know,
37:08
Speaker 6: when it was tough. The conditions were tough, but we've
37:12
Speaker 6: done this before. We certainly dived in tougher conditions. But
37:17
Speaker 6: it wasn't that deep. It was about forty five feet deep.
37:20
Speaker 6: The entire dive took about forty five minutes. It wasn't
37:22
Speaker 6: a It was long to set up. You see, whenever
37:25
Speaker 6: you're working around ice and a holes, everybody has to
37:27
Speaker 6: be tethered in somewhere to a hard point so if
37:29
Speaker 6: you fall in, so there's this safety considerations. But the
37:32
Speaker 6: dive itself was not that difficult. Everything matched exactly what
37:36
Speaker 6: Keys told us it was in the location. We saw
37:39
Speaker 6: the five different parts that he told us about. It
37:41
Speaker 6: was a torso there was two legs, there was two
37:44
Speaker 6: arms that were down together as one, and that was
37:46
Speaker 6: her head. And so those are the five pieces that
37:48
Speaker 6: showed up on the sonar. We sent a small mini
37:50
Speaker 6: RV down with a camera to make sure it was
37:53
Speaker 6: human remains. And then once we did those two methods,
37:56
Speaker 6: then ice splashed the divers and that dive took about
38:00
Speaker 6: forty five minutes. Again, like I said, it would have
38:02
Speaker 6: taken longer, but we were able to put Samantha Aill
38:04
Speaker 6: into one body bag because of the fact that Keys
38:08
Speaker 6: had made that demand on us not to tip off
38:12
Speaker 6: the press that she had been dismembered. But certainly when
38:15
Speaker 6: I handled Samantha's remains, I could tell that some of
38:20
Speaker 6: the water had washed off, and I saw the stitching
38:22
Speaker 6: on her eyelids as I was transferring her to the
38:25
Speaker 6: possession of the medical examiners investigators who were there taking
38:28
Speaker 6: possession of her remains.
38:30
Speaker 2: And then we find out in a completely different mo
38:33
Speaker 2: method of operation than murders of Bill and Lorank Courier.
38:37
Speaker 10: Listen, during a vacation to Vermont, Israel, Keys berries a
38:41
Speaker 10: five gallon orange bucket filled with zip ties, ammunition guns, silencers,
38:46
Speaker 10: draino duct tape, and a flashlight in her remote corner
38:49
Speaker 10: of the woodside natural area off Vermont fifteen. Over the years,
38:53
Speaker 10: Keys has buried several kill kids in places he's been traveling.
38:56
Speaker 10: Years later, Keys digs up the kit in Vermont out
39:00
Speaker 10: the home of Bill and Lorraine Courier. There are no
39:02
Speaker 10: children in the home and it's within walking distance of
39:05
Speaker 10: his hotel.
39:06
Speaker 2: Andrew Iiden, co host of Deviant Podcast, I've got too
39:11
Speaker 2: many Keys's victims, and there's still so many other victims
39:15
Speaker 2: that we don't know about, haven't found their bodies yet.
39:18
Speaker 2: But here we see a start dichotomy in the way
39:21
Speaker 2: he murdered and dismembered Samantha Koenig and the way he
39:25
Speaker 2: murdered and left the couriers, explained about the couriers.
39:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Bill and the Rain would lived in Essex, Vermont,
39:30
Speaker 4: and Israel Keys talked at length about waiting outside their home,
39:35
Speaker 4: cutting the phone line to disable the security system, kidnapping
39:39
Speaker 4: them essentially, and taking them a few miles away to
39:41
Speaker 4: an abandoned farmhouse, and that's where he sexually assaulted Lorraine,
39:44
Speaker 4: strangled her, and actually shot Bill in the midst of it.
39:48
Speaker 4: Kind of a struggle they were having in the house,
39:51
Speaker 4: and he left their remains there. So you're right, Bill
39:53
Speaker 4: and the Rain in that crime is everything that Samantha
39:56
Speaker 4: Koenig was not right. It was two, it was instead
39:59
Speaker 4: of one. They were older, Samantha was younger. You know,
40:03
Speaker 4: they were in Vermont, Samantha was in Alaska. So there's
40:05
Speaker 4: really kind of a dichotomy between these two crimes, as
40:08
Speaker 4: you mentioned with mo, they're two very different crimes in
40:10
Speaker 4: a lot of different ways.
40:13
Speaker 2: We know of the eleven to which he has admitted,
40:16
Speaker 2: and we believe there is somewhere that we'll be discovered
40:20
Speaker 2: at some point somewhere between twenty and thirty bodies Israel
40:26
Speaker 2: Keys serial killer. Thank you so much to the guests
40:33
Speaker 2: joining us today, but especially to you, Nancy Grace signing off,
40:38
Speaker 2: good night friend,