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Are These Common Podcasting Myths True? · Buzzcast

• 0:00
  Kevin: Hello?
• 0:00
  Kevin: Hello?
• 0:01
  Jordan: Can you hear us?
• 0:02
  Kevin: I can't hear you guys anymore.
• 0:03
  Alban: We can hear you.
• 0:04
  Jordan: Oh, there's an ear button.
• 0:05
  Alban: You hit the button.
• 0:06
  Alban: No, you hit the button.
• 0:07
  Alban: You hit the button.
• 0:08
  Alban: I'm gonna call Kevin and tell him.
• 0:10
  Alban: I think I know what he did.
• 0:14
  Kevin: What's up?
• 0:15
  Alban: Um, I think you hit the button to only hear your channel.
• 0:19
  Kevin: The solo button?
• 0:20
  Alban: There's yeah, the solo button.
• 0:22
  Jordan: It's a green ear.
• 0:23
  Kevin: No.
• 0:23
  Kevin: Hello?
• 0:23
  Kevin: Hello?
• 0:23
  Kevin: The green ear.
• 0:25
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 0:26
  Alban: Can you hear us now?
• 0:27
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 0:27
  Kevin: You could hear me the whole time?
• 0:28
  Alban: Yeah.
• 0:28
  Kevin: Thank you.
• 0:29
  Kevin: That was it.
• 0:29
  Alban: Alright, I'm hanging up the phone call.
• 0:31
  Alban: Alright, so Jordan, you were in the middle.
• 0:33
  Kevin: Hang on.
• 0:33
  Kevin: I can't hear you guys again.
• 0:35
  Jordan: No.
• 0:36
  Kevin: No way.
• 0:36
  Kevin: What'd I do?
• 0:37
  Jordan: It's the cursed episode.
• 0:38
  Kevin: Now I hear me, but not you.
• 0:40
  Alban: Was Kevin thinking he could hear us because he could hear me through the phone?
• 0:43
  Kevin: Now I can hear you.
• 0:46
  Kevin: Here we go.
• 0:52
  Jordan: Welcome back to Buzzcast, podcast about all things podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout.
• 0:58
  Jordan: Today we are going to be talking about podcasting myths.
• 1:01
  Jordan: Specifically, we're going to be busting podcasting myths.
• 1:06
  Jordan: So we're going to go over some of the internet's most prolific podcasting myths, urban legends, and we're going to decide if it is busted, plausible, confirmed.
• 1:16
  Jordan: Where are the other ones?
• 1:17
  Jordan: Like confirmed with like nuances.
• 1:19
  Jordan: I think for the sake of simplicity, we'll just leave it at busted, plausible, or confirmed.
• 1:25
  Kevin: Yes.
• 1:26
  Kevin: The official categories that a myth can fall into are busted, plausible, or confirmed.
• 1:31
  Kevin: I did do a little bit of research 30 seconds ago with ChatGPT, and it said sometimes the team would also note nuances such as partly busted or true, but not in the way people think.
• 1:42
  Jordan: Ooh.
• 1:43
  Kevin: So we have those options if we get in a jam.
• 1:45
  Jordan: Okay.
• 1:46
  Kevin: But for the most part, we are looking to either bust it, call it plausible, or confirm it.
• 1:51
  Jordan: Okay.
• 1:51
  Jordan: The first one is you need to launch with three episodes to get into Apple's new and noteworthy.
• 1:57
  Jordan: So
• 1:58
  Kevin: Confirmed.
• 2:00
  Jordan: This is going to be a really short episode.
• 2:04
  Alban: This one came in from QR Code Art on Twitter.
• 2:08
  Alban: So what supporting evidence is there for this, Jordan?
• 2:11
  Jordan: Uh the first one, it was really funny.
• 2:13
  Jordan: I searched it and I found the podcast and QA episode in which we interviewed Chris Emerson, who credited launching with three episodes to his success and getting featured.
• 2:23
  Jordan: We have that as a short.
• 2:24
  Jordan: It's on like YouTube, it's on the podcast.
• 2:26
  Jordan: So we may or may not be responsible for spreading this.
• 2:31
  Jordan: I also found in Apple Podcasts, in their promotional request, help article, whatever it is, they say, take a look at the larger picture of what your show has to offer when reaching potential new fans.
• 2:42
  Jordan: A narrative series, for example, might have more success with a feature timed after a few episodes are published, allowing listeners to binge and become hooked.
• 2:52
  Jordan: And a lot of podcast coaches say that three episodes are more likely to get you new noteworthy because there's more listener retention and followers.
• 3:03
  Jordan: You have more momentum because you get more downloads on the apps.
• 3:07
  Jordan: And it makes you seem like you're more serious about the podcast or you're more polished because you're not just starting with a trailer or one episode.
• 3:16
  Kevin: I've always thought it made sense because if Apple, whether it be an algorithm or whether it be a human who is making the selections for new and noteworthy, I would just assume that the more download activity they see, the more interest they have, or the better your chances of getting featured.
• 3:32
  Kevin: And so if you just launched with one episode, even if you do a great job of promoting it, maybe you get the word out to a thousand people.
• 3:39
  Kevin: And maybe a thousand people, you know, click and download that episode to their app.
• 3:43
  Kevin: Great, you had a thousand.
• 3:43
  Kevin: But if you had three episodes out there, or four, or five, of that thousand people who downloaded one, there would be maybe half of them would download a second episode.
• 3:52
  Kevin: And then maybe 25% of them would download the third episode because they liked what they heard.
• 3:57
  Kevin: So it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a recipe for success, but if you're gonna put all this effort and energy into promoting your podcast, I think it makes sense to do it after you have again, maybe three is the number.
• 4:08
  Kevin: Maybe that's not an exact number, but I would say more than one, and that's gonna trigger more activity.
• 4:13
  Kevin: So instead of the thousand downloads that we're talking about earlier, if it was half did a second episode and then 25% did a third, that's 1750.
• 4:21
  Kevin: So it's just more download activity.
• 4:23
  Kevin: So I just I think it makes sense.
• 4:24
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 4:25
  Jordan: The earliest instance I found of this like three episode idea at launch was from about 11 years ago.
• 4:34
  Jordan: Daniel J.
• 4:35
  Jordan: Lewis from The Audacity to Podcast had a tip in his episode about launching with three episodes.
• 4:43
  Jordan: And what I think happened is Apple wasn't very, they weren't very upfront about the way in which they did things, like how their algorithm worked, how their selection process worked for promotions.
• 4:56
  Jordan: And so I think what really truly happened was probably a lot of podcasters did a lot of research to make sure the show was really good.
• 5:04
  Jordan: And part of that research was having the three episodes at launch.
• 5:07
  Jordan: And they happened to have three episodes at launch and got into new and noteworthy.
• 5:12
  Jordan: And they were like, oh, okay, this proves it.
• 5:13
  Jordan: Like that's what you do because this is what I did.
• 5:15
  Jordan: But when I looked into Apple Podcasts' four tips for getting featured on Apple Podcasts, the first tip is to use promotional request form and just make sure you have all the information about your podcast, like why it would be important for people.
• 5:29
  Jordan: You have to actually go through a lot of stuff.
• 5:31
  Jordan: Number two is submit my catching art.
• 5:34
  Jordan: And I actually think that this is probably more important than having multiple episodes in your podcast is the artwork.
• 5:41
  Jordan: And you're gonna have like several different kinds of artwork.
• 5:43
  Jordan: I think that they put a lot of focus on the aesthetic, like the how appealing it is to people.
• 5:49
  Jordan: And then they also say to optimize your feed and audience title.
• 5:53
  Jordan: So they basically want to make sure that your episodes are titled properly.
• 5:56
  Jordan: And then number four is timing is key.
• 5:59
  Jordan: And the only tip that I found in here was the one that I talked about before about them saying, take a look at the larger picture of your show and you know, maybe have a few episodes to like so that people can really get an idea for it.
• 6:12
  Jordan: But it was more of a suggestion.
• 6:14
  Jordan: And the actual tip that they have in timing the like promotion request is saying if you request a Monday as the featured date, your request will fall naturally within our planning, which increases your chances of getting picked up.
• 6:30
  Jordan: That was the only like, hey, here's a little tip.
• 6:35
  Jordan: If you do it on this day, then it's gonna increase your chances.
• 6:39
  Jordan: And so I think that this is plausible.
• 6:43
  Kevin: Yeah, I I think you're right, Jordan.
• 6:45
  Kevin: I think plausible, you know, the way that you presented the myth, like technically, you need to launch for three episodes to get into Apple's New and Noteworthy.
• 6:53
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 6:54
  Kevin: That we could bust.
• 6:55
  Kevin: That is definitely bustable.
• 6:57
  Kevin: That's not true.
• 6:57
  Kevin: You don't need to.
• 6:59
  Jordan: I mean, we see people in New and Noteworthy all the time that just have a trailer.
• 7:03
  Kevin: But I do think there is some truth to it's not gonna hurt you to have more than one episode.
• 7:09
  Jordan: Absolutely.
• 7:09
  Kevin: So if your show is set up in a way where you, you know, record at least weekly, like you do still want it to be new.
• 7:16
  Kevin: There are exceptions for sure.
• 7:18
  Kevin: But if your show's been around for six months or more, that's probably a negative signal to the Apple team.
• 7:23
  Kevin: So you probably want to submit your show within the first six months or so of launch and you can do your own promotion and stuff around that to sort of build an audience.
• 7:33
  Kevin: But then when do you want to submit to Apple to try to get that new and noteworthy feature?
• 7:38
  Kevin: We know right from Apple's mouth if you choose a date when you fill out that form, like choose a Monday for the feature to go live if selected.
• 7:44
  Kevin: And then I do think it will help if you have a few episodes.
• 7:47
  Kevin: But if you don't want to, like if you want to just submit with a trailer, again, they don't have any official guidance around that, but I do think it could help if you have the type of show that would play into this strategy.
• 7:59
  Jordan: Our next myth was submitted from a listener in Steamboat Springs, Colorado.
• 8:04
  Jordan: You need expensive equipment to make a good podcast.
• 8:08
  Jordan: All right, so this myth is that your podcast is only as good as your audio quality.
• 8:13
  Jordan: And if you want to be taken seriously, you need to sound professional.
• 8:16
  Jordan: And the only way to sound professional is to buy fancy gear.
• 8:21
  Alban: That makes sense.
• 8:22
  Alban: I'll try to give the positive argument for this.
• 8:25
  Alban: High-end gear is the best way to get studio quality sound.
• 8:29
  Alban: Really, when you spend the money, it's actually signaling to yourself, I'm committed, I'm gonna do a really good job.
• 8:36
  Alban: And you know, you didn't just say I'm gonna start a podcast.
• 8:38
  Alban: You spent $2,000 on equipment.
• 8:41
  Alban: So now you're really committed.
• 8:42
  Alban: Yeah.
• 8:43
  Alban: And you know your spouse knows you're committed.
• 8:45
  Alban: And everyone in your life who's seen this stuff getting delivered by Amazon knows you're committed.
• 8:50
  Jordan: Your neighbors know.
• 8:51
  Alban: And now it's important that it sounds great.
• 8:53
  Alban: And so you're gonna put a little bit more effort and polished production does help, especially in competitive areas.
• 9:00
  Alban: So I think it just you get better audio, you're going to be more invested, and it's gonna lead to a good podcast.
• 9:09
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Kevin: Let me add on to this because it can be fun for a lot of people.
• 9:12
  Kevin: A lot of people are into fancy tech.
• 9:15
  Kevin: And whether that be uh a roadcaster for your desk or a fancy microphone or nice headphones that are super comfortable, and you're all into all the gadgets and gizmos are in there to make them comfortable and sound great and all that stuff, you're into all that stuff.
• 9:30
  Kevin: It could make podcasting more enjoyable.
• 9:33
  Kevin: And if it's more enjoyable, there's a better chance you're gonna stick with it.
• 9:36
  Kevin: And we know that you have to stick with it for a pretty long time to have a decent chance of being successful.
• 9:42
  Kevin: Nobody really in podcasting, unless you're a celebrity or something, you're not gonna be an overnight success.
• 9:48
  Kevin: It's going to take some time.
• 9:49
  Kevin: So the more things that you can do to enjoy the process, enjoy the journey, the better chance you have at being successful.
• 9:56
  Kevin: I think those are all great reasons to buy expensive gear.
• 10:00
  Kevin: Again, if you have the budget and the means to do it, you shouldn't be going into debt over your hobby, regardless of your hobby, whether it be podcasting or some sport or some exercise stuff, whatever it is, you should not be going into debt for a hobby.
• 10:12
  Kevin: But if you have the means and you enjoy it, remember 99% of podcasters are doing it for the love of the game.
• 10:19
  Kevin: So if you get enjoyment out of it, absolutely.
• 10:22
  Jordan: I'm gonna say a third point here, which is I think that video podcasting is further perpetuating this because you're on video.
• 10:33
  Jordan: And so people can see what equipment you have.
• 10:36
  Jordan: They can see if your video quality is super good, they can see if you have the really fancy overpriced pipe mic that Alban and Kevin have.
• 10:46
  Alban: Pipe mic.
• 10:47
  Jordan: It just looks like a pipe to me.
• 10:48
  Alban: You have the Sure SM7B, which is like the mic everyone on YouTube does use.
• 10:53
  Alban: Yeah.
• 10:54
  Jordan: Yes.
• 10:54
  Jordan: I've got the Joe Rogan standard.
• 10:55
  Jordan: I'm guilty of this.
• 10:56
  Jordan: I've got the white Rodcaster duo and I have my buttons programmed to be pink and purple.
• 11:01
  Jordan: I like the aesthetic.
• 11:02
  Jordan: But yeah, so I think that video is maybe making this a little bit more ingrained in people starting.
• 11:08
  Jordan: Like they feel like they need the expensive cameras and the super nice microphones because it's gonna show on camera.
• 11:14
  Alban: We've done a great job giving it the best argument.
• 11:17
  Jordan: Sure, yeah, we tried.
• 11:18
  Alban: But the audio quality is nearly identical.
• 11:21
  Alban: It's really not a big difference between a $100 mic and a $600 mic.
• 11:26
  Alban: We can do audio tests for you.
• 11:28
  Alban: We probably should do them at some point where we record with both.
• 11:31
  Alban: Yeah.
• 11:32
  Alban: And it's gonna be very similar.
• 11:34
  Alban: You're going to probably get better improvements by learning how to use your $60 Samsung Q2U than you would for buying the $1,000 setup if you're not going to spend the time to really learn how to use it.
• 11:46
  Alban: Yeah.
• 11:47
  Kevin: More expensive equipment can oftentimes sound worse if you don't use it correctly.
• 11:51
  Kevin: Right.
• 11:51
  Kevin: And oftentimes the more expensive equipment requires more training.
• 11:54
  Kevin: You've got to read the manuals, you've got to practice more, you've got to figure out how it's more complicated to set up with your mixing board and everything.
• 12:01
  Kevin: And you might have to sound treat your room because the microphones, as they get more expensive, might be more sensitive.
• 12:06
  Jordan: There's more room for technical issues.
• 12:08
  Kevin: Yeah, you can run into more technical issues.
• 12:09
  Kevin: The more gear you add, the more points of failure.
• 12:12
  Jordan: We had an issue literally just during this recording.
• 12:15
  Alban: We did.
• 12:16
  Jordan: And so we had to stop.
• 12:17
  Alban: And you can clean up audio without the equipment.
• 12:20
  Alban: Magic mastering can do it for you.
• 12:22
  Alban: Numerous like tools you can use to try to improve your audio.
• 12:26
  Alban: You could learn to master audio.
• 12:28
  Alban: All that can improve the audio quality.
• 12:31
  Alban: Recording in a good environment is going to improve your audio.
• 12:34
  Alban: The equipment, again, is not as important.
• 12:36
  Alban: We've talked about all this plenty of times.
• 12:38
  Alban: So people know our opinions here.
• 12:40
  Alban: And I listen to podcasts, and later on we'll find out, oh, it's a really good show and it was recorded with a blue Yeti, which I think sounds terrible.
• 12:50
  Alban: But podcasts I've listened to that I'm like, oh, this is good.
• 12:52
  Alban: Later on, we'll find out is recorded with a mic that I don't like at all.
• 12:56
  Alban: So I'd put this in the full busted category.
• 12:59
  Alban: I may even see it's even directionally incorrect.
• 13:02
  Alban: Like it's the opposite of true that if you're spending a bunch of money on the equipment, you're getting all the fun out of the equipment buying.
• 13:09
  Alban: You're not getting the fun out of actually doing the thing, which is recording a podcast and releasing it.
• 13:14
  Jordan: Busted.
• 13:15
  Jordan: That's mine busted.
• 13:16
  Jordan: I need I need you guys to contribute a busted too.
• 13:19
  Jordan: There we go.
• 13:20
  Jordan: That's better.
• 13:22
  Kevin: I will say one of the biggest things that I've I've noticed a difference in audio quality for our podcast specifically.
• 13:28
  Kevin: And it so it must be true for others, but I'm just more kind of tuned in to how we sound.
• 13:32
  Jordan: Uh-huh.
• 13:33
  Kevin: I listen to us live as we're recording, and then I can I listen to us various ways.
• 13:37
  Kevin: So I and I'm just, I don't know, more tuned in to how each one of us sound.
• 13:41
  Kevin: So if I listen through my airpods, I might listen through my computer speakers.
• 13:47
  Kevin: Oftentimes I would listen back in the car.
• 13:49
  Kevin: And then there's two different ways I'll listen to in the car.
• 13:51
  Kevin: One is like through a Bluetooth connection, and the other is like through the built-in infotainment system.
• 13:56
  Kevin: I have Audible built into there.
• 13:58
  Kevin: Audible has their podcast player in there, and so I can listen straight through that.
• 14:02
  Kevin: And then I know there's another way too, which is car play.
• 14:05
  Kevin: Anyway, I notice more of a difference between listening in those different environments than I do like what type of microphone we're using.
• 14:14
  Jordan: Yes.
• 14:15
  Kevin: So when we travel, we don't have this, we don't take this big home setups that we each have.
• 14:19
  Kevin: We don't take them on the road with us.
• 14:20
  Kevin: Oftentimes we'll grab a Q2U or a 2100X or something.
• 14:24
  Kevin: If we're in a hotel room together or whatever, we might use like a portable recorder.
• 14:28
  Kevin: We've done all sorts of different things.
• 14:30
  Kevin: We usually sound pretty much the same, regardless of the microphones that we're using.
• 14:35
  Kevin: We get it pretty close.
• 14:36
  Kevin: But I do notice a big difference.
• 14:38
  Kevin: Like when I put those AirPods in, especially like the pros with the noise canceling, I'm like, oh my gosh, we sound really good right now.
• 14:44
  Kevin: If I listen through the Audible built-in app, it sounds significantly better and clearer and sharper and more rich than it does when I'm just listening through pocket casts on a Bluetooth stream in the car.
• 14:54
  Kevin: And I've heard people who are really into music say the same thing.
• 14:57
  Kevin: Like they don't like to listen to their music through the Bluetooth connection.
• 15:00
  Kevin: They want it, you know, baked into the infotainment system.
• 15:02
  Kevin: And I think CarPlay and Android Auto does the same thing because it has like more bandwidth to go over the Wi-Fi connection instead of the Bluetooth, whatever.
• 15:10
  Kevin: But I think the environments can actually create more audio issues and you can have a bigger difference in how people are listening than your microphone.
• 15:17
  Kevin: And so it's funny that we work so hard to create this great audio up front, just for the majority of people who listen, they're gonna be listening in noisy environments and cars over a Bluetooth connection.
• 15:25
  Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:26
  Kevin: It's true.
• 15:27
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 15:28
  Kevin: So the goal should never be to like I want to recreate that Howard Stern amazing, rich, deep radio recording, and I have to upload this huge, you know, wave file, and it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.
• 15:40
  Kevin: Now, there is a basic level that we need to get to.
• 15:43
  Kevin: You know, like we don't want bad audio, but the difference between good audio and great amazing, the best you can have audio is negligible to most of your listening audience.
• 15:52
  Jordan: Yes.
• 15:53
  Alban: Something I'd like to know if anybody knows this right in.
• 15:56
  Alban: Is the reason that radio voices are typically like basier and more rich?
• 16:03
  Alban: Is that because AM and FM radio are so like low quality bit rates, Kevin?
• 16:09
  Alban: I mean, it's not bitrate, but it's like very low quality transmission signals.
• 16:13
  Alban: Like they can't send a ton of information.
• 16:16
  Alban: And so it kind of just sounds, you get a lot of static, you get a lot of sound loss, very lossy.
• 16:22
  Alban: Is that why we get that typical radio voice?
• 16:25
  Kevin: I think, Alban, it's more like intentional that I think that they tune the mics and the sound and and they're going through mixers and soundboards and all that stuff.
• 16:34
  Kevin: I said, I think they're being intentional about getting the sound that way, which oftentimes is deeper and richer.
• 16:39
  Kevin: I think that they think that it's more appealing on the whole to more people to listen to that.
• 16:44
  Jordan: Like more commanding, maybe.
• 16:46
  Alban: Maybe.
• 16:46
  Alban: But is it possible that that part of the voice spectrum comes through through like AM radio, which is really low fidelity?
• 16:55
  Alban: No, no.
• 16:56
  Jordan: Don't you ever hear those things where it's like on NYX 106 and they have like the really sharp, I hate that stuff.
• 17:02
  Alban: Right, I see.
• 17:03
  Alban: All right.
• 17:05
  Alban: Well, that was a uh impromptu busted myth for everybody out there.
• 17:10
  Alban: I I just had this thought all of a sudden I'm like, why is that the radio voice?
• 17:13
  Alban: And I was like, I know the AM radio is like really low bandwidth, and you don't get a lot.
• 17:19
  Alban: And maybe I just invented a myth.
• 17:21
  Kevin: Yeah, it is it is like bandwidth constrained, especially the old analog signals.
• 17:25
  Kevin: Now you have digital FM, so you have more the opportunity to push more data through over a digital signal.
• 17:31
  Kevin: But I think even being bandwidth constrained, you still had the full range to play like all the sounds that appear in music.
• 17:38
  Kevin: So you could absolutely play high tones and low tones.
• 17:40
  Kevin: And I don't think that lended itself to creating this radio voice that you're talking about.
• 17:44
  Kevin: I think it's more about trying to figure out like general user preference.
• 17:48
  Kevin: What do we like listening to?
• 17:50
  Kevin: More people would probably lend themselves towards more of this deep, commanding voice, especially like for uh Shock Jock Morning Radio, they all had like big booming voices, and uh and Howard Stern notoriously.
• 18:00
  Kevin: But I heard this could be another myth.
• 18:03
  Kevin: I heard Howard Stern used to travel his own little box, and so if he went to other studios that weren't his, he would plug his XLR cable into one side and out the other before it went to their mixer because he always had to sound exactly the same because it was his brand.
• 18:15
  Jordan: Whoa.
• 18:16
  Kevin: And that little box made him sound that way.
• 18:18
  Kevin: That could be a rumor, but somebody told me that at one point.
• 18:22
  Jordan: It's another myth to bust another day.
• 18:24
  Kevin: Let's look into that.
• 18:25
  Jordan: We're just perpetuating more myths as we go.
• 18:28
  Kevin: You know who knows this stuff for sure is Adam Curry.
• 18:31
  Kevin: Adam, if you're listening to this episode, smash that text button and tell us how dumb we are.
• 18:34
  Kevin: Let us know all the secrets.
• 18:36
  Jordan: Please let us know.
• 18:37
  Alban: Years ago, I interviewed Adam for some episode of one of our podcasts.
• 18:42
  Alban: And part of my research, I found out that he was on Howard Stern maybe 20 years ago.
• 18:48
  Alban: And I found a guy on YouTube who had an archive of every interview, and he pulled the one from Adam Curry and sent and emailed it to me.
• 18:57
  Jordan: Wow.
• 18:58
  Alban: And so maybe Adam would actually know, Kevin, about whether or not the Howard Stern audio box.
• 19:02
  Alban: Yeah, maybe.
• 19:03
  Jordan: Oh, this is gonna be such a good follow-up.
• 19:05
  Alban: Until we learn more, I'm gonna go ahead and bust my own myth.
• 19:07
  Alban: I just created.
• 19:09
  Jordan: All right, let's move on to.
• 19:11
  Jordan: Oh, this is one of my favorites.
• 19:13
  Jordan: I I love seeing this on the internet.
• 19:14
  Jordan: There are too many podcasts.
• 19:17
  Jordan: And I'm gonna put this in the same bucket as everyone has a podcast, and people feel like it's too late to start a podcast, or that they'll be perceived to be a podcast bro, as Tom Raftery put it.
• 19:30
  Jordan: So I think that general consensus is people are experiencing a little bit of like celebrity podcast fatigue because it seemed like every celebrity was starting a podcast and it was like always the same interview format where they're just talking to their friends.
• 19:44
  Jordan: As far as data goes, on listen notes, you can see that in 2015 there were 57,000 new podcasts published.
• 19:51
  Jordan: And in 2020, over one million podcasts, and that's gone down a bit still, but I think it's still something like 400,000 new podcasts are being published.
• 20:02
  Alban: I'll argue that there's too many.
• 20:03
  Alban: Um, I'll at least give the argument for it.
• 20:05
  Jordan: I love this.
• 20:06
  Alban: The argument is that during COVID, everybody in the world did have at least one friend who started a podcast for a short period.
• 20:14
  Alban: You know, people were just experimenting and Clubhouse was really big, and we were all kind of like testing out new stuff.
• 20:22
  Alban: And the thing that kind of caught was a lot of people started podcasts, and we all told each other we were starting podcasts.
• 20:28
  Alban: And there were a lot of people who just when they talked, they were like, you know, we're funny.
• 20:32
  Alban: We could do a podcast because the format of like a chat show where you just kind of interview people randomly and ask them about their lives, that seemed accessible to everybody.
• 20:43
  Alban: And so a lot of people did start.
• 20:45
  Alban: Now, when we look at the data, we see that they all also stopped.
• 20:49
  Alban: And most of those shows didn't stick around, but one, maybe two episodes.
• 20:54
  Alban: And so the idea that there's too many because we had this one period where it felt really saturated.
• 21:00
  Alban: I think that that's the myth.
• 21:02
  Alban: It felt very saturated then because everybody was kind of trying to start.
• 21:06
  Alban: And everyone realized even though the format may seem accessible, the format of just get on and riff with the interesting person you invited onto your podcast, it takes a lot of charisma, it takes a lot of work, takes a lot of prep.
• 21:21
  Alban: And the people who are good at that type of show, they have a skill set that most people don't have.
• 21:26
  Kevin: Oftentimes, people will combat this argument by citing how many blogs exist in the world, how many YouTube channels exist in the world, how many Instagram accounts and TikTok accounts exist in the world.
• 21:37
  Kevin: And those are a lot more of most of those things than podcasts by like orders of magnitude.
• 21:43
  Kevin: And so if you compare the number of podcasts that exist or get started every year to the number of YouTube channels that exist or get started every year, it's like, oh no, there's no, there's nowhere near as many podcasts.
• 21:53
  Kevin: But I would say the amount of time and attention that a new podcast in my life consumes is way greater than a YouTube channel that launched.
• 22:03
  Kevin: So if somebody launches a new YouTube channel, great.
• 22:06
  Kevin: Even if I like tap the follow button, I might follow hundreds of YouTube channels because they, you know, most of the content is very short form.
• 22:13
  Kevin: If it's not interesting to me, I just flick right past it and go on to the next thing.
• 22:17
  Kevin: YouTube is always going to find something interesting for me.
• 22:20
  Kevin: Anytime I load up the app, YouTube is doing the heavy lifting of showing me things that they think I'm interested in.
• 22:26
  Kevin: It's not really how many like who I follow and who I don't.
• 22:29
  Kevin: But podcasting doesn't work like that.
• 22:30
  Kevin: If Alban comes to me and says, Kevin, I've got this great new podcast, you have to listen to it, immediately it's running through my filter of, like, do I have enough time in my life for another podcast?
• 22:40
  Kevin: Podcasts are a big commitment.
• 22:42
  Kevin: It's like somebody saying you should read this book.
• 22:44
  Kevin: I'm like, how many pages is the book?
• 22:46
  Kevin: How interesting is the book?
• 22:48
  Kevin: How many other books am I reading at this moment?
• 22:50
  Kevin: I might put it in my queue and then get to it in six months, but I'm probably not going to go out and buy that book and start reading it that night.
• 22:56
  Kevin: Right.
• 22:56
  Kevin: And podcasts to me fall into that category.
• 22:58
  Kevin: So even though there are like fewer comparatively to those other things, those other things are so easy to jump into.
• 23:04
  Alban: I've heard people describe this as podcasting has the shelf space problem that most of us only have three to seven podcasts we listen to on a regular basis.
• 23:14
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 23:15
  Alban: And I'm very open to testing out individual episodes.
• 23:19
  Alban: But the idea of a podcast making it into that rotation where I might spend an hour with that podcast every week, that's a much bigger commitment than when I read a book and I go, oh, this author might bring out another book in three years.
• 23:33
  Alban: So there's another eight hours of future reading if they bring that out.
• 23:36
  Alban: It's just that's such a lower commitment than a podcast that may want 52 hours of listening time, you know, over the next year.
• 23:45
  Jordan: Yeah, I mean, it's hard because that's always like my argument, too, is the one that you were referencing, Kevin.
• 23:52
  Jordan: You know, there's 113 million active YouTube channels and Google has like 156 million books published, estimated.
• 23:59
  Jordan: And I think the reason why that comes up so much is because it almost feels like this is a statement reserved for podcasting.
• 24:09
  Jordan: There's just something about it where it's almost like a stigma that podcasting has, or that someone who wants to start a podcast is experiencing where they feel like they're going to get, I don't know what the word for it is, razzed for starting a podcast.
• 24:23
  Jordan: Like people are going to give them crap or be like, oh my gosh, this guy's going to start a podcast too.
• 24:27
  Jordan: Everyone has a podcast.
• 24:28
  Jordan: And that's another one of the things that if I meet somebody outside the podcasting space and they're like, oh, you're a podcast producer, you know.
• 24:36
  Jordan: I mean, like everyone else, I have a podcast too.
• 24:39
  Jordan: But in reality, I don't actually meet that many people that do have a podcast.
• 24:43
  Jordan: I don't know.
• 24:44
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 24:44
  Jordan: That's that's my thinking about it.
• 24:46
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 24:46
  Kevin: I just think it's very apples and oranges.
• 24:48
  Kevin: If somebody tells me they have a YouTube channel, I should check it out.
• 24:50
  Kevin: To me, that goes into the bucket of, oh, that would take me five minutes to check that out.
• 24:54
  Kevin: Like, I'll go check out your YouTube channel and whatever.
• 24:57
  Kevin: Oh, you're a friend of mine or I know you, so I'll support you by, you know, tapping the follow button or whatever.
• 25:01
  Kevin: It doesn't, it's not gonna hurt my life in any way.
• 25:04
  Kevin: If you tell me you have a podcast, I'm like, oh man, I gotta listen to this now.
• 25:08
  Kevin: It's how long your episode is there?
• 25:09
  Kevin: An hour?
• 25:10
  Kevin: I got to carve out an hour in my life to listen to you.
• 25:12
  Kevin: And so it's just different.
• 25:14
  Kevin: I don't think that there are too many podcasts.
• 25:16
  Kevin: I guess we can go on the dispelling side now to dispel this one.
• 25:19
  Kevin: I don't think that there are too many, but I do think, especially when you're telling people about it, it's just a bigger commitment for somebody to check out your podcast.
• 25:27
  Kevin: That's not just something I'm gonna casually like, you know, flip over to your Instagram and scroll through a couple of the funny reels you made.
• 25:33
  Alban: Yeah, I think it's a good argument for why your podcast needs to have a why beyond the fact that it exists.
• 25:38
  Alban: If I told Kevin, oh, I launched a YouTube channel and I've got two videos up, and so I have a total of like 12 minutes of content, Kevin might go watch everything I've ever done on YouTube.
• 25:49
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 25:49
  Alban: But if I told Kevin I launched a new podcast and it was on marketing, so it's related to our work, Kevin still would go, I don't know, man, you've got 12 episodes out there and they're an hour long.
• 26:00
  Alban: I might listen to one or two.
• 26:02
  Alban: I'm not listening to all of them.
• 26:03
  Alban: And it's not because you don't care about people.
• 26:06
  Alban: You just need to make sure the podcast is for them because the commitment on the listener side, which is what leads to this disproportionate uh feeling of connection, the commitment is much higher.
• 26:18
  Alban: So you've got to have a strong why.
• 26:20
  Alban: It can't be the COVID cast, which is like, hey, we're all hanging out, just a couple friends, we drink a beer and we talk about what happened over the last week.
• 26:28
  Alban: There's some really impressive people who are able to do that type of show and they do it well, but that's a very difficult format to make work.
• 26:38
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Jordan: And along with the, you know, really focusing on your why, I think niching down is extra important because yeah, there are 4.588 million podcasts available to listen to right now, but there's also 584 million people worldwide who have listened to podcasts so far this year.
• 26:56
  Jordan: And next year is expected to hit 651 million.
• 27:00
  Jordan: So you might not be on everyone's shelf, but you could be on a little, like a small share of that shelf.
• 27:07
  Jordan: And so making sure that you are niche down and really focused on that slice of the pie.
• 27:14
  Alban: Yeah, there's something like 20 YouTube channels for every podcast.
• 27:18
  Alban: And that includes like two million podcasts that haven't been updated in multiple years that are hosted on Anchor or on Spotify for podcasters.
• 27:27
  Alban: There's all sorts of blogs that haven't been touched in 10 years, but you can still find them in Google.
• 27:32
  Alban: And there's podcasts that are old that I regularly find old podcasts.
• 27:36
  Alban: I'm searching for episodes that are not putting on new episodes, that I find it.
• 27:40
  Alban: And I'm like, oh, this is a really cool thing from five years ago.
• 27:44
  Alban: So I think there's plenty of space.
• 27:46
  Alban: I mean, we're talking hundreds of thousands of podcasts that have released any content in the last three months.
• 27:52
  Alban: It's not that many.
• 27:53
  Alban: So there's plenty of opportunities.
• 27:56
  Alban: But I think the advice that maybe we're kind of talking ourselves into is you need to have a strong why for the show.
• 28:02
  Alban: It's not just a, hey, it's something you can listen to.
• 28:05
  Alban: So you probably should listen to it.
• 28:06
  Alban: We've got to have a reason for your listeners to listen.
• 28:09
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Alban: And if you can nail that, people are going to find time in their life if they go, oh, I really want a show.
• 28:16
  Alban: What we were talking about last time on the quick cast, a show about pollen allergies.
• 28:20
  Alban: Yeah.
• 28:20
  Alban: If you have a pollen allergy and you hear that, you go, that's actually going to be valuable for me.
• 28:25
  Alban: But if your friend just says, like, hey, you should listen to my podcast, you're going to go, I might do it because we're buds, but I'm not going to keep listening for months.
• 28:33
  Jordan: It's funny.
• 28:33
  Jordan: This is such like a roller coaster because I went into this myth being like, this is stupid.
• 28:38
  Jordan: This is so busted.
• 28:39
  Jordan: And then you guys kind of talk me into like, maybe there are too many podcasts.
• 28:43
  Jordan: Now I'm like back edge thinking, this is stupid.
• 28:45
  Jordan: There's not too many podcasts.
• 28:47
  Alban: There's too many podcasts for me, the listener.
• 28:50
  Alban: As the listener, I don't need another podcast because I've got a bunch of shows.
• 28:55
  Kevin: Can I push back on that a little bit?
• 28:56
  Kevin: I always have room in my life for another high quality podcast that I love.
• 29:02
  Kevin: Alban, you're right on that number.
• 29:03
  Kevin: Like you said, four to seven.
• 29:05
  Kevin: For me, I'm probably towards the higher end of that.
• 29:07
  Kevin: At any given time, my queue is filled with seven podcasts that I follow and I'm excited when I'm walking the dog or going for a drive to queue up the next one.
• 29:16
  Kevin: But there is a priority.
• 29:18
  Kevin: Like in my mind, they they're rankings.
• 29:20
  Kevin: Like I, this is my number one, this is my number two.
• 29:22
  Kevin: I can't wait for my number three show to come out.
• 29:24
  Kevin: But whoever's at the bottom of that list, like you could get bumped at any moment.
• 29:27
  Kevin: And it's not because you're not a great quality show.
• 29:29
  Kevin: Like you're still in the list.
• 29:31
  Kevin: But if I stumble upon or I hear a recommendation for somebody else and I fall in love quick, like there's room.
• 29:37
  Kevin: I'll either expand how much time I have to listen or I'll bump one of those shows from the regular rotation.
• 29:42
  Kevin: And then there's this extended cut list, which is really only shows that I get into when I'm on a long road trip, you know, or when I'm traveling.
• 29:49
  Kevin: I've got a little bit more time, or I'm on vacation this week.
• 29:52
  Kevin: I've got more time in my schedule to listen.
• 29:53
  Kevin: So I might go catch up on some stuff.
• 29:55
  Kevin: But I'm always on the hunt for more high quality podcasts.
• 29:59
  Kevin: What's interesting is like in the podcasting industry, which where we operate, there's only like two or three shows that I really listen to on a regular basis just to kind of catch up on what and keep in tune with what's going on in our industry.
• 30:12
  Kevin: Now it's not because there aren't more shows.
• 30:14
  Kevin: There certainly are more shows, but they just don't resonate with me for one reason or another.
• 30:18
  Kevin: And I don't need to express all those views.
• 30:20
  Kevin: You can go find all the shows about podcasting and figure out which ones resonate with you.
• 30:24
  Kevin: But the great thing about podcasting is there's probably, who knows, 20 shows that talk about podcasting specifically.
• 30:30
  Kevin: Well, three or four are a good fit for me.
• 30:32
  Kevin: And those, if you're into podcasting, three or four different ones might be a good fit for you.
• 30:37
  Kevin: But that's one of the special unique things about podcasting is that you can kind of find your flavor, find your hosts, your personalities around the topic that you want.
• 30:45
  Kevin: And I think that there's still plenty of room for more because I think I have three shows about the podcasting industry now that I listen to on a regular basis, but I definitely have room in my life for four or five.
• 30:54
  Kevin: But I just haven't found the fourth or fifth show yet.
• 30:56
  Kevin: So I don't think it exists yet.
• 30:58
  Kevin: But I'm waiting for somebody to create it.
• 30:59
  Kevin: So you want to start a podcast about podcasting?
• 31:02
  Kevin: I've got room in my life for you.
• 31:03
  Alban: There's a slot in my life for a good, like what's happening in this week on AI podcast that's funny and with like interesting hosts.
• 31:12
  Alban: And that has never I've never found one.
• 31:14
  Alban: I found really dry ones.
• 31:16
  Alban: I found ones that go way too in depth on like a philosophical angle, and I don't need that.
• 31:22
  Alban: I'm like, if there's a light one, I'm I've got a slot for it.
• 31:26
  Alban: I've not found it.
• 31:27
  Alban: There's a slot for that for maybe for marketing.
• 31:30
  Alban: All the marketing ones I found always feel very salesy, and so I don't love them.
• 31:35
  Alban: Yeah, I guess there are.
• 31:36
  Alban: There are slots available, but they're particular types of shows.
• 31:40
  Alban: And I think maybe that's the advice.
• 31:42
  Alban: There's not too many podcasts, there's just too many generic podcasts.
• 31:46
  Alban: We need more specific podcasts.
• 31:48
  Alban: We need people who can say, here's what this show is going to be.
• 31:52
  Alban: Here's a distinct format, tone, posts, and it works well, and now it can fit into your life.
• 31:59
  Alban: But like Kevin, I've got the list and it is a ranking.
• 32:02
  Alban: There's podcasts that when they release, that episode's at the top of the list and it's the next thing to get listened to.
• 32:08
  Alban: And there's others that I see it come in and I go, nope, and I archive that episode.
• 32:13
  Alban: Nope, archive that one.
• 32:14
  Alban: So I'm ready to bump number seven off the list.
• 32:18
  Jordan: All right.
• 32:19
  Jordan: So I think this one is going to go into I'm forgetting what the uh caveat ones are.
• 32:25
  Alban: True, but not in the way people think.
• 32:27
  Jordan: Yeah, that's the one.
• 32:28
  Alban: I think true, but not in the way people think.
• 32:30
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 32:31
  Alban: Man, I did some of these answers we're coming up with are not what I expect to know.
• 32:35
  Jordan: I thought it was just gonna be busted all the way down.
• 32:38
  Kevin: So there are too many podcasts, true, but not in the way that people think.
• 32:42
  Jordan: Love it.
• 32:42
  Jordan: All right, so the next one big name guests will quickly grow your show.
• 32:46
  Jordan: One of the quickest ways to grow your podcast is to reel in the biggest names you can.
• 32:50
  Jordan: After all, they have millions of fans who are guaranteed to listen, right?
• 32:56
  Alban: Not too sure about that.
• 32:57
  Alban: All right.
• 32:58
  Alban: Supporting arguments for this.
• 33:00
  Alban: Having a big guest gives you social proof.
• 33:03
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Alban: If you can say this famous person has been on my, and I'm talking A-list celebrity or somebody in your space that everyone knows, if you get one, that is going to be in every outreach email from now on.
• 33:17
  Alban: And so as soon as you start, you land one, it's going to give you credibility.
• 33:21
  Alban: People will go, oh, someone famous has been here.
• 33:24
  Alban: Or maybe, you know, in the podcasting space, it might be someone like Pat Flynn or it could be Adam Curry.
• 33:30
  Alban: And you go, people go, oh, you know, if Buzzcast has had Adam Curry on the show, then this must be a real podcast that actually does, you know, do real research and they know people in this industry.
• 33:40
  Alban: So it gives you the credibility and it kind of gets you at least to the like this show is trying level.
• 33:46
  Alban: Big name guests, people are more likely to give it a chance if they look at your podcast and they go, Oh, I actually recognize the guest name.
• 33:53
  Alban: Maybe they'll click play, they'll give you a shot.
• 33:56
  Alban: They sometimes have been on other shows, so they have good stories.
• 34:00
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 34:01
  Alban: Maybe they have an audience that will follow them to your podcast.
• 34:04
  Alban: I think that's less likely, but those are the arguments for a big name guest will help.
• 34:09
  Kevin: There are some shows that I only listen to if I find the guest interesting.
• 34:12
  Kevin: Lex Friedman falls into that category.
• 34:14
  Kevin: Joe Rogan falls into that category.
• 34:17
  Kevin: Even how I built this falls into that category.
• 34:19
  Kevin: Now, there's some exceptions because how I built this also will go into my like extended cut cue for companies who I'm I I don't really know.
• 34:28
  Kevin: I haven't heard about them that much.
• 34:30
  Kevin: So I might not prioritize listening to that episode, but now I'm on a road trip and I need something to listen to.
• 34:34
  Kevin: I know it's going to be a good story, even though I haven't heard of this company.
• 34:37
  Kevin: But Lex Friedman and Joe Rogan, like three-hour episodes on the regular, I'm not listening to somebody unless I kind of have at least some cursory knowledge of who they are or why I might be interested in it.
• 34:47
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 34:48
  Kevin: So I would say that it's a possible growth strategy for podcasts, is that if you can land a big name guest, then why not?
• 34:55
  Kevin: But let me go back to see how this was.
• 34:58
  Kevin: Big name guests will quickly grow your show.
• 35:01
  Jordan: Yep.
• 35:02
  Jordan: This is a growth tactic that people use.
• 35:05
  Jordan: It's not about having a guest that's going to bring value to their podcast.
• 35:09
  Jordan: It's about getting a big name guest to share with their audiences so you can quickly gather as many bodies as you can.
• 35:18
  Alban: My hot take is that people aren't using this as a strategy.
• 35:21
  Alban: They're using it as an excuse.
• 35:23
  Alban: They're saying, you know, I would be doing well, but if I I can't really get the big name guests.
• 35:28
  Alban: You know, the celebrities can get the big name guests, and that's what really works in this space, but it won't work for me.
• 35:34
  Alban: My biggest argument against this, I think I've mentioned this on the show, Dwarkesh podcast has had Mark Zuckerberg, has had everybody in, you know, Sam Altman from OpenAI, has had every famous tech person has been on this podcast.
• 35:49
  Alban: And if you go look at the most popular episodes, the top five are all a woman who's a professor at the Naval College, Sarah Payne.
• 36:00
  Alban: And it's like back to back to back, these on YouTube they get millions of views on the podcast that gets millions of downloads.
• 36:08
  Alban: And it's consistent, she is the most popular guest by like an order of magnitude.
• 36:14
  Alban: Why?
• 36:14
  Alban: Because they're good episodes.
• 36:16
  Alban: And she had written books and was a professor for a long time, but was not very well known until she was on this podcast.
• 36:23
  Alban: And you know, I mean, it's funny to see like five of her videos are way more watched than an hour-long sit-down with Mark Zuckerberg talking about spending $10 billion on AI.
• 36:36
  Jordan: So, as far as dispelling this, one of the first things that I thought of was our celebrity podcast graveyard episode where we talked about all the failed celebrity podcasts.
• 36:44
  Jordan: And I feel like just that extensive list of big names who had big names on their show and failed miserably is enough to dispel this.
• 36:56
  Alban: I I think that's great.
• 36:57
  Alban: I mean, a lot of those celebrity podcasts, they had themselves on every episode and it did not grow.
• 37:02
  Kevin: So I think it's possible.
• 37:04
  Kevin: Let me let me talk this out and see if you guys can follow this logic.
• 37:07
  Jordan: Okay.
• 37:07
  Kevin: I think if you have a big name person, whether it be big name in your industry or big name to everybody, like celebrity, on your podcast, I think that there is a high probability that that does grow your podcast.
• 37:20
  Kevin: Numbers, right?
• 37:21
  Kevin: Now, there's also a cost associated with that.
• 37:25
  Kevin: One to book that guest, two, the level of stress or whatever that you feel in prepping for that guest and all that other kind of stuff.
• 37:32
  Kevin: And then what's the net?
• 37:33
  Kevin: Right?
• 37:34
  Kevin: You pay the cost, um, you got some level of bump.
• 37:36
  Kevin: And so this is where I think the formula starts to break down, is because I think people expect the bump to be massive.
• 37:42
  Kevin: And so even if the cost is massive, like I'm gonna have whoever my favorite celebrity person is on the show.
• 37:48
  Kevin: Like, you know, in our space, it might be somebody like you mentioned Adam Curry or Pat Flynn or somebody like a big name podcaster, somebody's got a good reputation in the space and they're gonna come on your show, they're gonna do a good job.
• 37:58
  Kevin: We're gonna prep, we're gonna do some background research, we're gonna pay a high cost and prep and get ready.
• 38:03
  Kevin: But then the bump is gonna come, and I don't think the bump is gonna be what you think it might be, right?
• 38:08
  Kevin: It's primarily gonna be your audience first, and then there might be some people who do like the super fans of let's just take Pat Flynn, for example.
• 38:16
  Kevin: They're gonna be Pat Flynn's super fans are gonna find it.
• 38:19
  Kevin: You know, Pat is a great guest because he always does a good job of promoting, but just because he promoted something across his social channels doesn't mean that every single one of those views are actually gonna turn into a podcast download.
• 38:30
  Kevin: And so let's say Pat Flynn has the potential to influence a million people.
• 38:34
  Kevin: Out of that million people, maybe 50,000 of them actually take action, and then how many of those 50,000 actually listen to your whole episode, and then how many of those people like it enough to subscribe?
• 38:42
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 38:42
  Kevin: Because they're really not fans of you, they're fans of him, so they're not, you know, hopefully you shine through enough in that interview process.
• 38:48
  Kevin: So you might have some level of growth.
• 38:50
  Kevin: I'm not saying that you won't have growth, but I don't think it's going to be massive.
• 38:54
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 38:54
  Kevin: And it's not really sustainable because as soon as that one guest is gone and whatever, you know, big marketing push and campaign you did around that one episode, as soon as that is not new anymore, you have to find the next new.
• 39:05
  Kevin: And so, like, what's your net gain from this strategy?
• 39:09
  Kevin: I don't know that it's sustainable.
• 39:11
  Kevin: Like, I don't know that you're going to be net positive for how much work and effort goes into it.
• 39:15
  Kevin: And then you measure that against the results that you had.
• 39:17
  Kevin: I don't think that it's a long-term uh growth strategy for a podcast.
• 39:22
  Kevin: Let's go ahead and throw the busted label on it.
• 39:24
  Kevin: Busted.
• 39:25
  Kevin: Okay.
• 39:26
  Kevin: But I will say that like it's also the dream of a lot of podcasters.
• 39:30
  Kevin: They have their, you know, dream guest.
• 39:33
  Kevin: They have their moonshot.
• 39:34
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 39:34
  Kevin: And I would say, like, do that for the fun of doing that.
• 39:37
  Kevin: Like, if one of the reasons that you got into podcasting was to meet more people in your industry or whatever you're talking about.
• 39:42
  Kevin: And then of that list of people, there's one who's like, that would be the dream guest.
• 39:46
  Kevin: That would be the most fun.
• 39:46
  Kevin: If that I ever got an opportunity, like that would be my perfect person to have on my podcast.
• 39:50
  Kevin: Like, pursue that.
• 39:52
  Kevin: But do it for the joy of that pursuit and the joy of having that conversation and making that connection.
• 39:57
  Kevin: Don't tie it to a growth strategy.
• 39:59
  Kevin: And then, regardless of how that like, and don't measure the success or failure of that if you ever do land it based on how much you grew your show.
• 40:05
  Kevin: Yeah.
• 40:06
  Kevin: Like look back on that as a fond, fun memory and part of your podcasting journey.
• 40:09
  Kevin: And that is the win and that is the goal.
• 40:11
  Kevin: And maybe your numbers go up and maybe they don't, but that's like a byproduct, a side benefit.
• 40:16
  Kevin: The cherry on the Sunday, if it happens.
• 40:17
  Kevin: But the guests themselves should be the reward.
• 40:21
  Jordan: Our next myth: there is an optimal time, day, and frequency of publishing.
• 40:26
  Jordan: And if you want to squeeze the most downloads out of the week, there is a certain day, time, and frequency you should be putting your show out.
• 40:32
  Jordan: And data says that's what all the successful podcasters do.
• 40:36
  Jordan: It's really funny because finding the supporting information on this, the data varies depending on who you ask.
• 40:44
  Jordan: And something that was referenced a lot in podcasting blogs and articles is a megaphone statistic, but it was released back in like 2018.
• 40:54
  Jordan: They said that most of the podcasters publish episodes on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday between 2 a.m.
• 41:00
  Jordan: and 5 a.m.
• 41:01
  Jordan: And the podcasts that released on Tuesday at 5 a.m.
• 41:04
  Jordan: had the most downloads.
• 41:06
  Jordan: I could pull out a million statistics for this.
• 41:10
  Jordan: Generally, it's like midweek, first thing in the morning.
• 41:13
  Alban: Jordan, when when in our outline it says the data says that's what all successful podcasters do.
• 41:19
  Alban: Did you rate that or did was that in the question?
• 41:21
  Alban: That's or where did that come from?
• 41:23
  Jordan: That is the myth.
• 41:24
  Jordan: That's the myth.
• 41:24
  Jordan: Like this is what all the successful podcasters do.
• 41:27
  Jordan: If you do this, you'll get like maximum input of downloads.
• 41:31
  Jordan: And, you know, this is the myth that I see all the time is that there is an optimal time, day, and frequency of publishing for podcasts.
• 41:39
  Kevin: I will tell you this.
• 41:40
  Kevin: We published a show on Friday.
• 41:42
  Kevin: And for a while, I would wake up and get moving in the morning and pop up my phone and flip over to the podcast apps and look at what other shows have published Friday morning.
• 41:54
  Kevin: And our show was always like past the first screen of new episodes.
• 41:58
  Kevin: I'd have to scroll down and be like, oh yeah, okay.
• 42:00
  Kevin: Our episode did publish.
• 42:02
  Kevin: And that annoyed me enough that I asked Jordan to please change our publishing time from Friday at midnight to Friday at 8 a.m.
• 42:12
  Kevin: Is that when you do it?
• 42:13
  Jordan: 8 a.m.
• 42:13
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 42:14
  Kevin: That change was a result of just annoyance that wasn't like trying to game the numbers or get more downloads.
• 42:20
  Kevin: But Jordan, did you notice any download changes after you made that change?
• 42:24
  Kevin: Like did we get more or less or stayed the same?
• 42:27
  Jordan: I think we got a little bit more.
• 42:29
  Kevin: Okay.
• 42:30
  Jordan: But not like a crazy amount.
• 42:32
  Kevin: Okay.
• 42:32
  Jordan: But I did notice that we are at the top of the podcast feed for me on Fridays.
• 42:38
  Jordan: So that's nice.
• 42:39
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 42:39
  Kevin: Friday is a busy publishing day.
• 42:41
  Kevin: And it might just, you know, like it depends on what shows you follow.
• 42:44
  Kevin: But for whatever reason, the shows that I happen to follow, and it sounds like Jordan 2, a lot of these shows just happen to publish on Friday.
• 42:51
  Kevin: And so I would wake up Friday morning and there's like 10 new episodes.
• 42:55
  Kevin: Now, some of these podcasts I follow, publish two or three times a week.
• 42:58
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 42:59
  Kevin: But whatever, we weren't on the first screen.
• 43:01
  Kevin: But just that shift from moving from midnight until 8 a.m.
• 43:04
  Kevin: made sure that if we're not the top, we're at least on screen one.
• 43:07
  Alban: That seems like a good idea, Kevin, to get more people to listen to the show early.
• 43:12
  Alban: But I think that this has got to be just a total myth, especially the data that we're seeing from six years ago saying, oh, big shows release on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursdays at this period.
• 43:23
  Alban: Like at best, we're talking about a correlation, not a causation, right?
• 43:27
  Alban: We're really just saying, like, hey, it seems like the shows that do well do release in the middle of the week.
• 43:32
  Alban: But what's the strength of the association?
• 43:36
  Alban: Like the shows on Tuesdays do better.
• 43:38
  Alban: No, we're not even saying there's really even an association because there's there's tons of small shows that don't do well that release on those days.
• 43:46
  Alban: I mean, I feel like I've seen this exact same data with email newsletters a lot.
• 43:50
  Alban: It was really trendy for a while.
• 43:52
  Alban: People were like, you've got to send them on Thursday mornings.
• 43:54
  Alban: Well, as soon as like one, you know, convert kit article went out about maybe Thursday mornings are a good time.
• 44:00
  Alban: A bunch of marketers moved to Thursday mornings, clogged up the Thursday morning email inbox, and then Monday morning opened up.
• 44:07
  Alban: And then somebody else wrote it and they everyone moved over there.
• 44:11
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 44:12
  Alban: I think really you want the consistency for your listeners that they know Buzzcast is going to be here on Fridays, whether it's a quick cast or it's a full episode, it's going to be here on Fridays.
• 44:25
  Alban: I think Kevin's gamification a little bit and saying, hey, let's release a little later so that we're at the top of people who get that feed in the order of episodes.
• 44:35
  Alban: I think that's smart.
• 44:36
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 44:37
  Alban: That's a good play.
• 44:38
  Jordan: Yeah, that's that's a good one.
• 44:39
  Alban: In the same way that we send emails right at like nine, so that people are sitting down at their desk as the email comes out.
• 44:46
  Alban: So we'll try to do the same thing with email, but I just don't think there's like many reasons you would expect a Tuesday episode to do well and a Friday episode not to do well.
• 44:57
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 44:57
  Alban: That's only really going to ever apply to shows you're subscribed to.
• 45:00
  Alban: And if you're subscribed to it, then you're going to get the episode no matter when it comes out.
• 45:03
  Alban: It could come out Sunday at four in the afternoon, and you may not see it until Monday, but it doesn't matter.
• 45:10
  Alban: It's on my phone and downloaded.
• 45:12
  Jordan: If you look at the top shows in any app, they're all different publishing frequencies.
• 45:17
  Jordan: You know, some are daily, some are weekly, some are bi-weekly, some are monthly, some will drop an episode once every like three months.
• 45:25
  Jordan: It's all over the place.
• 45:27
  Jordan: They're all different days of the week.
• 45:28
  Jordan: And then additionally, I think that probably the most important thing is just what content your podcast has.
• 45:35
  Jordan: So I mean, if you're doing current events or you have some sort of like timely podcast, or you're doing an episode where you're covering something that just recently happened, then you might break your publishing schedule anyway.
• 45:46
  Jordan: Right.
• 45:47
  Jordan: I definitely think that this one is dispelled, though maybe there's a little bit of weight into the time of day you publish as opposed to what day or how often you drop episodes.
• 45:58
  Alban: But like Kevin and I said earlier, we have shows that when an episode comes out, it bumps to the top of the queue because we're excited to listen to it.
• 46:04
  Alban: The release time hack that Kevin came up with, that's only really applicable for the second tier shows anyway, that it's just like you want to be at the top of the queue.
• 46:14
  Alban: And so it's like, oh, I noticed that that one's there.
• 46:17
  Alban: But for like your favorite two shows, you already know when they're coming out.
• 46:21
  Alban: And if it's at the top of the queue or the third down, you're still going to find it.
• 46:25
  Kevin: Let me drop one more.
• 46:26
  Kevin: This doesn't like lean into the myth that much, but I think it could be the same thing of like adjusting your publishing time.
• 46:34
  Kevin: It could help you get noticed more.
• 46:36
  Kevin: I think one of the things that we want to do as podcasters is we want to try to figure out ways to make our shows stand out.
• 46:43
  Kevin: And so if you're podcasting and the stuff that you're covering isn't timely, like it doesn't have to, you're not talking about today's events and it's got to go out today, then you do have some flexibility to figure out which day you want to publish on.
• 46:56
  Kevin: And you can usually do this without changing your recording schedule too much.
• 46:59
  Kevin: You just kind of change it for like one week, adjust to your new schedule, and now you've got a new publishing day.
• 47:03
  Kevin: And I think there's an opportunity for people to figure out what are the other shows that are competing for the same type of attention, the same type of audience that your show is.
• 47:13
  Kevin: And then instead of competing with them by publishing on the same day and around the same time, find another day.
• 47:20
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 47:20
  Kevin: And so if you're into uh pollen or knitting or real estate or whatever your sort of niche genre is for your podcast, follow a bunch of other shows that are sort of popular.
• 47:31
  Kevin: Figure out is there any days where uh these shows seem to be dropping?
• 47:35
  Kevin: They're dropping every Monday, they're dropping every Wednesday.
• 47:37
  Kevin: Oh, Thursday's available and Tuesday's available and Friday's available.
• 47:40
  Kevin: Pick one of those days.
• 47:41
  Kevin: So then at least people don't wake up on Wednesday morning and they're like, oh, here's the six real estate podcasts that I listen to all on the same day.
• 47:48
  Kevin: I'm never gonna like get through these today.
• 47:50
  Kevin: And it just might be a way that you stand out a little bit more.
• 47:54
  Jordan: So this is busted.
• 47:57
  Kevin: You got to give us the sound effect.
• 47:58
  Jordan: Okay, hold on.
• 47:59
  Jordan: This is busted.
• 48:01
  Jordan: That's about getting.
• 48:06
  Jordan: All right.
• 48:07
  Jordan: Our last myth for this episode is the dreaded seventh episode.
• 48:12
  Jordan: This myth, I see it every now and then in forums and chats and in community groups, and it reminds me of like a school yard curse where they're like, oh, the senior curse or something like that.
• 48:24
  Jordan: And it's either called the dreaded or the magic seventh episode.
• 48:29
  Jordan: And it's purported that it is the determining factor for whether you rise into stardom or fade into oblivion.
• 48:36
  Jordan: Have you guys heard of this one?
• 48:38
  Kevin: Yes.
• 48:38
  Kevin: Seven gets thrown around a lot.
• 48:41
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 48:41
  Kevin: You know, seven, this is there's a marriage thing about you got to make it past the first seven years of marriage.
• 48:47
  Kevin: Seven-year itch.
• 48:49
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 48:49
  Kevin: Generally, I don't like it.
• 48:51
  Kevin: It just feels pessimistic.
• 48:53
  Jordan: It does.
• 48:54
  Kevin: Also arbitrary.
• 48:55
  Kevin: Yeah, it doesn't feel like a goal to try to get past the seventh.
• 48:58
  Kevin: It just feels like uh you'll probably won't make it past the seventh.
• 49:01
  Kevin: Mm-hmm when people talk about it.
• 49:03
  Kevin: Now, that said, I I do think it's a little bit true that I don't know if the number's exactly seven, but there's a shocking number of podcasts that launch and don't get that far in before they never publish again.
• 49:15
  Kevin: But I've seen it, I've seen them die out at episode three, episode four, episode five.
• 49:20
  Kevin: I actually think seven's like a pretty high number here.
• 49:22
  Kevin: If I were gonna guess, I'd say it's closer to three or four.
• 49:25
  Alban: Yeah, we we looked this up once, and no matter what we do, the most common number of episodes people release is zero.
• 49:32
  Alban: Right.
• 49:33
  Alban: Even if you sign up for Buzz Prowl and you say, I'm gonna start a podcast, and you put in a title and description, the most likely you're still gonna launch at that point is zero.
• 49:42
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 49:43
  Alban: The second most likely number is one, the third most likely number is two, and it's just the every subsequent episode, the drop off to the next one is smaller.
• 49:53
  Alban: So the longer you make it, it's uh what's this called?
• 49:58
  Alban: The Lindy effect.
• 49:59
  Alban: The longer something's been around, the more likely it will be around even longer.
• 50:03
  Alban: So if you've done the podcast for one month, that's a really good indicator.
• 50:08
  Alban: And if you've done it for four months, that's even a better indicator.
• 50:11
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 50:12
  Alban: But there's nothing magical or cursed or anything special about number seven.
• 50:17
  Alban: Besides, if you've gotten a number seven, you've made it through one, two, three, four, five, and six.
• 50:22
  Alban: And it's gonna be even better if you can get to episode 14.
• 50:26
  Alban: But this myth has been around at least 11 years.
• 50:30
  Alban: It's been around since the very beginning of when I got into podcasting.
• 50:33
  Alban: I was like, oh, all of a sudden I'm hearing about this seventh episode.
• 50:35
  Alban: I'm like, oh, this sounds really important.
• 50:37
  Alban: We should write an article about it.
• 50:38
  Alban: And then we start like looking at numbers, and I'm like, this just sounds like totally made up.
• 50:43
  Alban: It's just an arbitrary number.
• 50:45
  Alban: It's a good goal, but it's just as good as the goal.
• 50:48
  Alban: I mean, a better goal would be eight, I guess.
• 50:50
  Jordan: Yeah, it just varies wildly.
• 50:52
  Jordan: I was trying to find data to back this up, but everyone has a different opinion on it.
• 50:57
  Jordan: I was thinking, I wonder if it varies based on how much people are invested in podcasting, but I don't know.
• 51:04
  Kevin: Those numbers are so skewed because they don't really take into account the people who at least got to the point of signing up for a podcast hosting account.
• 51:12
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 51:12
  Kevin: Saying that they were gonna release an episode and still never release an episode.
• 51:15
  Kevin: That number, like Alban said, far and away is zero.
• 51:18
  Alban: Yeah, I mean, everybody has thought about starting a YouTube channel and everyone's thought of starting a blog and a podcast and everything else, and not done it.
• 51:25
  Alban: And the most common thing is you just kind of start and then you fade off.
• 51:29
  Alban: So I don't know.
• 51:30
  Alban: Even the surveys that everyone's run and you've got a bunch of data in here, it reminds me of there's an XKCD comment that's like a survey response and it says, Do you like answering surveys?
• 51:41
  Alban: And it says 100% I love answering surveys, because anyone who was to say no would not have answered the survey.
• 51:47
  Alban: And I feel like the people who are responding to all of us saying, Did you make it to these episodes?
• 51:53
  Alban: They're already podcasters.
• 51:55
  Alban: So it's even skewed more towards they hit that seventh episode.
• 52:00
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 52:00
  Jordan: All right.
• 52:00
  Jordan: Well, I'm gonna say that this myth has been busted.
• 52:04
  Jordan: The seventh episode or making it past the seventh episode does not determine if you are officially a podcaster or if you are gonna die off because it's cursed.
• 52:14
  Jordan: It's just an urban legend.
• 52:15
  Kevin: Right.
• 52:15
  Kevin: And it's hard to find any statistics that really back up that number of seven specifically.
• 52:20
  Kevin: If anything, I think we all agree it would be lower.
• 52:23
  Kevin: Busted.
• 52:27
  Jordan: Okay, let's get into some fan mail.
• 52:30
  Jordan: We've got three messages here.
• 52:31
  Jordan: The first is from Sudolna, Alaska.
• 52:34
  Jordan: Hello, have we talked about what things to look for when hiring an editor or what task people typically offload first?
• 52:42
  Jordan: Uh, I don't think that we have talked about this things to look for when hiring an editor.
• 52:48
  Kevin: It's never been top of my list when I got into podcasting.
• 52:51
  Kevin: Part of what I got excited about and starting a podcast was the editing.
• 52:55
  Kevin: Like was the, you know, recording all the junk and then crafting, you know, cutting it down to make a compelling episode or a compelling story or whatever you're doing on your show.
• 53:03
  Kevin: So for me, I always find it interesting when people are new to podcasting and they want to offload editing, like even before they give it a shot, because it's possible that you might like it.
• 53:14
  Kevin: And if you're podcasting for the joy of podcasting, why would you want to offload anything that you find fun?
• 53:20
  Kevin: Like it's it's part of the hobby.
• 53:21
  Kevin: But for sure, there's gonna be people who that part is more draining.
• 53:25
  Kevin: It's more like we call it like red zones and green zones.
• 53:27
  Kevin: It might be a more of a red zone for you, so it might be something you want to offload.
• 53:30
  Kevin: And it's it's something that you can definitely offload.
• 53:34
  Kevin: There are definitely people who are like very good at it, and it be probably reasonably priced.
• 53:40
  Kevin: There's just like anything in life, there's the high-end shops that are gonna be hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and then there's some people who you can find on Fiverr who maybe just love it and love doing it nights and weekends, so they'll be willing to do it for less money, but they might be really competent and good at it still.
• 53:54
  Kevin: But I don't have a ton of experience with how to do it, so I can't really speak to that.
• 53:59
  Alban: Yeah, I think uh exactly what Kevin just said, what's the red and what's green zones for you?
• 54:04
  Alban: For me, editing has never had any appeal.
• 54:07
  Alban: I don't really like that part of podcasting.
• 54:10
  Alban: I actually really enjoy the front end, like planning the episode and researching and writing the outline.
• 54:17
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 54:17
  Alban: And so when Jordan's not here, I naturally take that piece and Kevin takes the editing because Kevin doesn't love the outlining and I don't love the editing.
• 54:27
  Alban: So we both fit into different spots.
• 54:30
  Alban: And I think if either of us did a show without each other and without Jordan, we would probably outsource different parts of it because I don't really want to edit it.
• 54:39
  Alban: And I think Kevin would like someone else to pull together the sources.
• 54:43
  Jordan: Yeah, I would say editing was the first thing that I personally offloaded because I didn't used to like it.
• 54:48
  Jordan: I like it now.
• 54:49
  Jordan: I've learned to enjoy editing.
• 54:51
  Jordan: But yeah, it wasn't something that I used to enjoy when I was like newer.
• 54:55
  Jordan: Something to look for when hiring an editor, I would really say maybe just go to someone you know or a podcaster that you know and ask if they have any.
• 55:03
  Jordan: Go to group forums that do not have too much soliciting.
• 55:07
  Jordan: Like the Best Pro Community Facebook group is actually a really good place for you to ask if anyone has recommendations.
• 55:13
  Jordan: So this is like a trusted source.
• 55:15
  Jordan: I think that someone who's recommended is probably gonna be your best bet if you're looking to hire an editor.
• 55:21
  Jordan: All right, next up we've got Matt from California.
• 55:24
  Jordan: We just launched a listener survey with a gift card drawing as an incentive and a 30-second pre-roll promoting the link in the show notes.
• 55:31
  Jordan: And for a show that gets about $700 a month, we only have a handful of responses.
• 55:36
  Jordan: Is a 1% response rate expected or good?
• 55:39
  Jordan: It certainly isn't super actionable.
• 55:41
  Jordan: And how can we boost this?
• 55:43
  Alban: Is 1% response rate expected or good?
• 55:46
  Alban: I mean, I'm guessing it's gonna be somewhere in the single digits.
• 55:49
  Alban: Um, one reason that it's gonna be a little harder when it's a gift card drawing as the incentive is that in our minds, just imagine for a second, you're the listener and you're hearing this, you're driving to work, and you're not ever imagining you're gonna win.
• 56:04
  Alban: And so you don't get to work and then go, oh, I'm gonna enter that survey real quick, even though I just walked in two minutes late.
• 56:12
  Alban: So I think that what you might want to do is lean into the fact that only 1% of people are going to respond.
• 56:19
  Alban: And so I might say on there, hey, we are doing this survey, just letting you know, last time only seven people even applied for it.
• 56:27
  Alban: So if you do, uh, there's a good chance you might win if you actually answer the survey.
• 56:31
  Alban: And then people hear it and they go, Oh, wow, so this is actually doable.
• 56:35
  Alban: Yeah, I think I'll put in a response.
• 56:37
  Kevin: Right.
• 56:38
  Kevin: I would encourage you to lean more into the connection that you have with your audience.
• 56:41
  Kevin: Like they might not be motivated by winning a gift card nearly as much as they could be motivated by helping you out.
• 56:48
  Kevin: So if you let them know how this is helpful to you and why you're doing it, there's a better chance that the 700 people who download and listen to you every month would be they're connected to you, that they might be willing to take a few minutes.
• 57:00
  Kevin: They might not want, I don't know what type of gift card, a $50 Amazon gift card or something.
• 57:04
  Kevin: Again, that like Alban said, maybe they just don't think they're gonna win it.
• 57:08
  Kevin: But if they say, Hey, I listen to this show every week, and this is really helpful.
• 57:12
  Kevin: It would help me continue to create great content that you love and be really meaningful to me as a creator to know that people are listening and taking action and helping me create this show.
• 57:20
  Kevin: Can you just take five minutes for like your survey?
• 57:22
  Kevin: I'd be more motivated to do that.
• 57:24
  Kevin: And maybe your audience would too.
• 57:26
  Kevin: So maybe you can lean in on both sides.
• 57:27
  Kevin: You can say, Hey, I'm gonna do a gift card and I'm also gonna make this flea.
• 57:30
  Kevin: The other thing is that the pre-roll tool is great because it adds it to all your back catalog episodes.
• 57:35
  Kevin: But talking about it in your current episodes at length a little bit more than just the 30 seconds and telling people about why it's important and how you're gonna use the information to make your show better, you can do that real time in the in the episodes that you're doing now.
• 57:48
  Kevin: And you just using the leaning on the pre-roll for your previous episodes.
• 57:51
  Kevin: Because oftentimes um we're used to hearing ads and stuff in the beginning of episodes, so they oftentimes just get skipped over.
• 57:57
  Jordan: Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback on that too, because I've done surveys for my audience.
• 58:03
  Jordan: And I will say 1% response rate is actually great because I my podcast got millions of downloads and I would do listener surveys and get like 200 responses.
• 58:15
  Jordan: And I also tried putting a gift card up for grabs and it did not improve the response rate at all.
• 58:21
  Jordan: It just cost me like 25 bucks.
• 58:23
  Jordan: And the other thing is if you do work it into your episode, it's really important to just have a one single call to action.
• 58:30
  Jordan: If you have multiple calls to action where you're just like, hey, leave us a rating room review, make sure you tap the Texas show link in the show notes and make sure to subscribe for bonus episodes and also tell a friend and family member about the show and also like answer my survey.
• 58:44
  Jordan: Those are going to be really overwhelming to people.
• 58:46
  Jordan: So just have one call to action, even if it's like you introduce the show and you say, Hey, I just want to take a minute to like let you guys know we have the survey.
• 58:54
  Jordan: It'd be so meaningful.
• 58:55
  Jordan: Everything that Kevin said in that and album too.
• 58:58
  Jordan: Also make sure that the survey is short and the people know it's short and it's not going to take them a lot of time.
• 59:04
  Jordan: Those kind of things are really going to improve your response rate.
• 59:08
  Jordan: All right.
• 59:08
  Jordan: And our last famous message is from Robert Peterson from the Notorious Bakersfield podcast, saying that every year he does uh audio driving tour and he would like to offer a one-time payment through BuzzRoute subscriptions for that.
• 59:22
  Kevin: I love this idea.
• 59:23
  Kevin: One-time payment options for listener support and subscription content is on our roadmap, our internal roadmap that we don't publish or talk about publicly.
• 59:32
  Kevin: So I can't no comments.
• 59:33
  Kevin: No, it's it's something that we absolutely want to get to, and we will get to it, but unfortunately, you're looking for it before Halloween, and it's not going to happen before Halloween this year.
• 59:44
  Kevin: So, whatever solution you've used in the past, you're gonna have to do that again.
• 59:48
  Kevin: And hopefully by Halloween of 2026, not a promise, but a hope.
• 59:53
  Kevin: Uh we can get that in.
• 59:54
  Kevin: But yeah, a lot of people want that, and we think it would be a great feature.
• 59:57
  Kevin: We agree with you.
• 59:58
  Kevin: So yeah, we'll plus one that feature.
• 59:59
  Kevin: Feature request for you.
• 1:00:00
  Kevin: Thanks for writing in.
• 1:00:01
  Jordan: All right.
• 1:00:02
  Jordan: And speaking of Halloween, our next deep dive episode, because we are heading into the holiday season, we've got the Buzz Brout Summit coming up where we're going to be traveling to Tampa.
• 1:00:14
  Jordan: So we're going to do an episode about podcasting in the holiday season, batching episodes, things that you need to do to prepare for the holidays, kids being home, all this different stuff.
• 1:00:25
  Jordan: So if you have any questions about podcasting when life gets a little busy or you're traveling, or uh if you have any tips for how you handle podcasting in the holiday season, go ahead and tap the Texas show link in the show notes to send it in.
• 1:00:40
  Jordan: And as always, thanks for listening and keep podcasting.
• 1:00:44
  Jordan: So I have done something for the first time in my entire life.
• 1:00:53
  Jordan: And that is I applied to be on a reality competition show.
• 1:00:57
  Kevin: Oh.
• 1:00:57
  Kevin: What was the name of the show?
• 1:01:01
  Kevin: When they opened up applications a couple weeks ago, didn't we all say in the company chat that you'd be good for the show?
• 1:01:07
  Jordan: Yep.
• 1:01:07
  Jordan: Um, I applied to be on The Traitors, which is my favorite reality competition show other than Survivor, though I've never applied to be on Survivor because I get nauseous if I get hungry and hot.
• 1:01:20
  Jordan: And so I can't never do that show.
• 1:01:21
  Jordan: I know I can never do that show.
• 1:01:23
  Alban: There's no way you could handle Survivor.
• 1:01:25
  Jordan: I'm like, I've been to Florida.
• 1:01:27
  Jordan: I don't want to be on a beach in Fiji starving and living with bugs.
• 1:01:31
  Jordan: But I would, I'm sure I would kill it at that show if they fed you and put you in a hotel, which is basically what the traitors is.
• 1:01:38
  Jordan: So I'm just like really crossing my fingers.
• 1:01:42
  Jordan: I could just get selected to live in a castle for like four weeks.
• 1:01:45
  Alban: Jordan, I love that you're like, I'd be really good at this show if they changed the entire premise of this show rather than surviving on a desert island.
• 1:01:53
  Alban: Instead, it was a luxury hotel.
• 1:01:55
  Jordan: That's literally, yeah.
• 1:01:56
  Jordan: That's exactly it.
• 1:01:57
  Alban: All right.
• 1:01:57
  Alban: So, traitors, you did a at some um company-wide hangout we had.
• 1:02:02
  Alban: Uh, we got everybody together and you organized a trader's viewing.
• 1:02:06
  Alban: What is traitors?
• 1:02:07
  Jordan: So, yeah, so Traitors is a reality competition show in which the cast members go to a castle in Scotland.
• 1:02:14
  Jordan: It's hosted by Alan Cumming, and they select three traitors who go and murder people every single night.
• 1:02:21
  Jordan: And the faithful, like the innocent ones, have to figure out who the traitors are.
• 1:02:25
  Jordan: And if they vote out a trader, like more traitors get selected.
• 1:02:28
  Jordan: And at the very end of the show, if a trader remains, then the trader wins.
• 1:02:32
  Jordan: And if the faithful only remain, they split the pot.
• 1:02:35
  Jordan: So it's a very fun game.
• 1:02:36
  Jordan: It's very like murder mystery, dinner party-esque.
• 1:02:40
  Jordan: There's a lot of like fashion and dark humor and weird challenges where they have to go through like a haunted house or something.
• 1:02:46
  Jordan: It's just, it's right up my alley.
• 1:02:48
  Kevin: So the people who are playing the game get make pretend unalived.
• 1:02:52
  Kevin: Yes.
• 1:02:53
  Kevin: And then are they are they out of the game?
• 1:02:54
  Kevin: Is that how you get eliminated?
• 1:02:55
  Jordan: Yes, they're out of the game.
• 1:02:56
  Jordan: But it was really funny because I actually included some images of me doing that PowerPoint presentation in my um application video.
• 1:03:05
  Kevin: Oh, you have a video.
• 1:03:06
  Jordan: I had submit a video to them.
• 1:03:08
  Kevin: Are we gonna share this video with the world?
• 1:03:10
  Jordan: No, no, absolutely not.
• 1:03:12
  Alban: How do we how do we support this?
• 1:03:14
  Alban: You you don't.
• 1:03:15
  Kevin: Can we like write letters on your behalf?
• 1:03:17
  Jordan: You just cross your fingers and hope.
• 1:03:18
  Alban: Because I think there's like there's not a zero chance that you get an interview.
• 1:03:22
  Alban: Did you say I have a very famous podcast?
• 1:03:25
  Jordan: I did not say that.
• 1:03:26
  Alban: Yeah, you should have put that because people send me emails and say I'd like to be on your very famous podcast.
• 1:03:30
  Alban: And then they are like a reptile expert.
• 1:03:32
  Alban: And I'm like, I'm pretty sure this is a auto-generated email.
• 1:03:37
  Jordan: Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  Jordan: No, I didn't I didn't do that.
• 1:03:39
  Jordan: It kind of sucked because you have to like send your social media handles and stuff like that.
• 1:03:42
  Jordan: And I don't have a huge social media following.
• 1:03:45
  Jordan: So I'm like, hopefully I'll be like a personality hire for that show, but we'll see.
• 1:03:50
  Kevin: Do the people who get selected, do they typically have large social media followings?
• 1:03:54
  Jordan: Well, so this is the first time that they've opened the show up to the general public because it's actually a celebrity competition show.
• 1:04:01
  Jordan: So it started out with celebrities for the first like three seasons, and now they're doing a second version of it because they've expanded to like Traitors Ireland and Traitors UK is doing celebrity now in addition to regular people, and they have like Australia and uh Traitors Canada is coming up now.
• 1:04:18
  Jordan: So it's sort of like expanding because it's become such a popular show.
• 1:04:22
  Jordan: So this is the first time that they're opening up to just regular people.
• 1:04:26
  Alban: Jordan, we wish you the best.
• 1:04:27
  Alban: It'd be so much fun if you're on this uh reality show.
• 1:04:30
  Kevin: It would.
• 1:04:30
  Kevin: I I'll make this commitment right now that you might not be allowed to because you'll probably be under like NDAs and stuff.
• 1:04:37
  Kevin: But if you make it on the show, we will somebody from the company will make it happen.
• 1:04:41
  Kevin: We'll launch a companion podcast.
• 1:04:43
  Kevin: Yes.
• 1:04:43
  Kevin: So that and we'll do viewings whenever the shows come out, and then we'll recap all the episodes.
• 1:04:49
  Kevin: I commit to Priscilla doing the podcast.
• 1:04:51
  Kevin: And then at at one point, whatever your whenever your NDA allows you, you can be our special guest on the podcast.
• 1:04:59
  Jordan: Here's hopin'.