Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 3 SETS OF BODY PARTS, SEVERED LEG DISCOVERED: MILWAUKEE IN FEAR

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3 SETS OF BODY PARTS, SEVERED LEG DISCOVERED: MILWAUKEE IN FEAR · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Body parts found seemingly scattered,
0:11
Speaker 1: some say dispersed intentionally across metro Milwaukee. Not just murder,
0:19
Speaker 1: but careful dissection, human dismemberment tonight into the mind of
0:25
Speaker 1: a human butcher. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. I want
0:29
Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. I've tried a
0:44
Speaker 1: lot of homicides. I have investigated many, many more and
0:48
Speaker 1: covered many many more. But dismemberment of the human body
0:53
Speaker 1: is a whole another animal. Again, thank you for being
0:57
Speaker 1: with us. First of all, take a listen to this.
1:00
Speaker 2: I'm April second, cuta Hey Police respond to a call
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Speaker 2: along Lake Michigan at Warnamont Park, a popular recreation area.
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Speaker 2: A parkgoer reports finding a severed human leg. According to
1:11
Speaker 2: a post from Cuta Hay Sheriff's office, the limb was
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Speaker 2: found in or near the water east of the golf
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Speaker 2: course near the pump house. There are steep cliffs leading
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Speaker 2: to the shoreline in that area, and large numbers of
1:22
Speaker 2: police canvas the area and kept away gawkers.
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that scene? Body parts found Around five
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Speaker 1: thirty pm, police responding to a call along Lake Michigan.
1:36
Speaker 1: You know so often we cover cases where a jogger,
1:40
Speaker 1: a walker finds a body. What about body parts? Straight
1:46
Speaker 1: out to our guests, joining us to All Star panel
1:48
Speaker 1: to make sense of what we're knowing right now. To
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Speaker 1: Bill Daily, former FBI investigator and expert in forensic photography,
1:58
Speaker 1: Bill Daily, thank you for being with us. You know
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Speaker 1: I've seen many a gruesome crime scene, but body parts
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Speaker 1: is a whole another thing. You ever had a dismember body, Well.
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Speaker 3: Certainly I've covered those photos as being friends with a
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Speaker 3: photographer and having to prepare the background documentation in the laboratory,
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Speaker 3: So I am kind of familiar with the situation. And
2:20
Speaker 3: I'm also familiar in answer to the fact that unfortunately
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Speaker 3: we've seen this happen here in our country before. It's
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Speaker 3: only about a month ago. We're in Suffolk County, New York.
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Speaker 3: Early morning schoolgoers through a park found a severed arm.
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Speaker 3: So unfortunately we're seeing this now happen in our country.
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Speaker 3: And why it's a phenomenon. Not saying these two are
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Speaker 3: connected anyway, but it's something that we're seeing happening. And
2:42
Speaker 3: the question is why why are people driven to commit
2:46
Speaker 3: if this is an act of murder? Why are they
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Speaker 3: commit act. Why are they forced to commit those acts?
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Speaker 1: Well, Number one, I can tell you this must Bill Daily.
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Speaker 1: It is an act of murder unless the person killed
2:57
Speaker 1: themselves and severed their own body parts. But you've read
3:01
Speaker 1: my mind, Bill Daly, because one of my big thoughts
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Speaker 1: is are dismemberments on the rise? Because in the last
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Speaker 1: month we've seen three separate dismemberment cases. I'm not talking
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Speaker 1: about justin Milwaukee. But you're absolutely corrected Alex's trestack. I'm
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Speaker 1: going to be with you in just one moment, but
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Speaker 1: I want to follow up on what Bill Daley said
3:24
Speaker 1: with doctor Eric easan Board certified forensic pathologist consultant. You
3:30
Speaker 1: can find him on Insta Eric under a under Ethan,
3:36
Speaker 1: Doctor Ason, thank you for being with us. When you
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Speaker 1: look at dismembered body parts, I'm very curious about what
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Speaker 1: you can learn from the actual severing marks. Can you
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Speaker 1: learn if it's from the person's severed by a saw,
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Speaker 1: a knife, a sort and we've had that before, a
4:01
Speaker 1: machete type sword used in severance. And the reason I
4:05
Speaker 1: ask is because certain tools actually have to be plugged
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Speaker 1: in at the time, which gives me another idea and
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Speaker 1: a clue as to where the dismemberment occurred.
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Speaker 4: Correct. It's called tool mark analysis.
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Speaker 5: And so what we do in the morgue is we'll
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Speaker 5: examine the remains initially and take photographs and do some
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Speaker 5: other examinations. We'll look at the edges of the bones
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Speaker 5: and try and look for what we call striations on
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Speaker 5: the bones, and then we refer to a forensic anthropologist
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Speaker 5: to do a better exam.
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Speaker 1: Hold on, doctor Ason, Remember we're just mere mortals. You're
4:38
Speaker 1: the medical examiner when you say striation marks. The first
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Speaker 1: time I dealt with striation Marx st r Ia s
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Speaker 1: tra TiO is triation was with mollistics looking at these
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Speaker 1: triation marks on two bullets, the known bullet which you
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Speaker 1: fire at the crime lab and the unknown bullet which
5:01
Speaker 1: is taken from a crime scene. You think you have
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Speaker 1: the murder weapon. You shoot a bullet through with that
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Speaker 1: murder weapon. Then go under a microscope and you see
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Speaker 1: wiggle lines and if they match, the two bullets match,
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Speaker 1: you know it's from that gun. SOS. Triation marks, in
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Speaker 1: my mind are tool marks left by a gun. So
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Speaker 1: what's a striation mark as it relates to a severed body.
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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too deep in the woods here.
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Speaker 1: But I want to know the answer to that.
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Speaker 4: Well, it's said to be left by gun.
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Speaker 5: It would be left by the metal pieces of the
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Speaker 5: saw or the axe or possibly serrated knife or something
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Speaker 5: like that that when it goes through the bone is
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Speaker 5: going to lead the marks onto the bone, similar to
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Speaker 5: when a bullet goes through the barrel of a bone.
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Speaker 1: Right now, I understand. So it's the markings left on
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Speaker 1: the bone. See, I was thinking about looking at the
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Speaker 1: skin to see what kind of marking was left on
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Speaker 1: the skin if you can tell what tool was used.
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Speaker 1: But that's making much more sense to me. Because the
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Speaker 1: skin is suppliable, you can't get a good read on
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Speaker 1: the tool used you looking at the bone. Now I
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Speaker 1: get it. The markings left on the bone will tell
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Speaker 1: you what type of tool was used. If you can
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Speaker 1: figure that out, it helps you figure out where the
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Speaker 1: dismemberment occurred. Okay, I am getting wait, defcom four here
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Speaker 1: on the striation marks on bones when you look at
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Speaker 1: a dismembered body. But let's get back to this. Hey,
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Speaker 1: Bill Daie, a former FBI investigator and renowned forensic photography expert.
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Speaker 1: Do you remember the first dismembered body you photographed.
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Speaker 3: I actually do remember seeing those first photos. That was
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Speaker 3: in a mob type of style hit, and certainly it
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Speaker 3: was a message that was being sent to other mobsters,
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Speaker 3: so I do remember it.
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Speaker 1: You know, that's curious because I bet everybody on this
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Speaker 1: panel remembers the first time they saw a dead body.
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Speaker 1: I do the first time I saw an autopsy photo.
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Speaker 1: It sticks with you forever. So my point is to
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Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk joining me crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter, can
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Speaker 1: you imagine the person that comes upon an actual body part,
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Speaker 1: not a picture, not a depiction, not a description written
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Speaker 1: a police report, the real thing. Now, how there's a
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Speaker 1: series of three sets of body parts found, some say strode,
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Speaker 1: some say intentionally placed across Milwaukee. Tell me about the
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Speaker 1: first set.
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Speaker 6: So the first thing that's found is a severed leg.
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Speaker 6: So not and again you were talking about bodies. This
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Speaker 6: isn't seeing your grandmother in the coffin at her funeral.
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Speaker 6: This is an actual, broken, torn apart leg found by
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Speaker 6: Lake Michigan. Which is if people aren't likeke Misha is
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Speaker 6: like an ocean. It is so big, so you think
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Speaker 6: did something wash up on the shore? Where did this
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Speaker 6: leg come from? But it wasn't eaten away or it
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Speaker 6: wasn't damaged too much. It was clearly identifiable as a leg.
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Speaker 6: So that is the first thing that hold on.
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Speaker 1: Got a question for you, Alexis you say, I mean
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Speaker 1: it's a severed leg, but you're saying it was in
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Speaker 1: good shape. For us in forensics, are you saying the
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Speaker 1: leg was still in good shape?
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Speaker 6: I am actually saying the leg was in good shape.
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Speaker 6: It wasn't unidentifiable. It was clearly a leg. It wasn't
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Speaker 6: something where you just found the phone.
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Speaker 1: That's important, Alexis that one phrase you used because when
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Speaker 1: you take this to a jury, you've got to be
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Speaker 1: able to determine how old. Let me rephrase how long
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Speaker 1: the person has been killed? Doctor Eric Esen, joining US
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Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner, Doctor Esen, we're using lay terms, Alexis
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Speaker 1: and I that the leg was in a good shape.
9:01
Speaker 1: That's actually significant because you can date the time, not
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Speaker 1: necessarily within a thirty minute period, but how many days
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Speaker 1: have passed if the leg is still in good shape.
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Speaker 1: When you get a skeletonized bone, forget about it. You're
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Speaker 1: not going to be able to date the death. But
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Speaker 1: what can you learn from this one dismembered leg, and
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Speaker 1: this is critical to this case.
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Speaker 4: Well, with the skin intact and hopefully the muscle intact,
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Speaker 4: and hopefully the bone marrow would still be intact, you
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Speaker 4: can use that to run DNA testing and try and
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Speaker 4: match it with who the victim was. That's the important thing.
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Speaker 1: You know.
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Speaker 5: When you get skeletonized remains that have been around for
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Speaker 5: a couple of years, it's more difficult to get a
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Speaker 5: DNA sample, but from this one you should be able
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Speaker 5: to get a pretty good sample and try and figure
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Speaker 5: out who this person was.
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Speaker 1: Also, you can determine when the murder occurred based on
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Speaker 1: the condition of the leg. If d comp has totally
9:59
Speaker 1: set in, that gives me a timeline. If the leg
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Speaker 1: looks like it's fresh, for lack of a better term,
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Speaker 1: that gives me a timeline. Then I try to figure
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Speaker 1: out who's missing in that timeline. And can you tell
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Speaker 1: immediately looking at the leg, isn't this true? Doctor aasan
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Speaker 1: you can tell immediately whether it's a woman or a man,
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Speaker 1: an adult or a child the race. You can learn
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Speaker 1: so much. Yes, yes, Now that's compared to when you
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Speaker 1: find a skeletonized body part and you look at, say
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Speaker 1: a female, which is part of the leg or the tibia.
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Speaker 1: Can you look at a bone, a skeletonized bone, doctor,
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Speaker 1: and determine based on the leg bone alone, whether it's
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Speaker 1: a male or a female.
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Speaker 5: It'd be tough for me to do it, and so
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Speaker 5: we have special doctors known as forensic anthropologists that actually
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Speaker 5: examine bones. They only examine bones, and they'd be able
10:57
Speaker 5: to handle something like that.
10:59
Speaker 4: But I do know that gender determination you really need
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Speaker 4: a pelvis. It can be.
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Speaker 1: Done, yes, because the pelvis is shaped in a manner
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Speaker 1: where you can determine if the pelvis is fit to
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Speaker 1: have children. It's the only way I know how to
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Speaker 1: say it. Is there a better way to say that,
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Speaker 1: a more clinical way.
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Speaker 4: A wider birth canal possibly?
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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, right, okay, I'm gonna stick with mine. If
11:22
Speaker 1: you don't mind, you say potato, I'll say potato. Crime
11:33
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace going forward, Alexis Touschuk back to you,
11:42
Speaker 1: and remember we've got doctor John Delatory, Matthew Mangino, former
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Speaker 1: prosecutor now private lawyer Bill Dally, doctor Ethan jump in.
11:53
Speaker 1: If you have a thought or a question, So, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: what is it a jogger, a walk who finds a
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Speaker 1: severed leg by Lake Michigan.
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Speaker 6: Right, just somebody that is in the park. This is
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Speaker 6: a public park, it's not a hidden area at all.
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Speaker 6: So just somebody out walking finds the leg and they
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Speaker 6: contact the local police immediately because it's, as I said,
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Speaker 6: clearly identifiable as a leg. It's not even a bone
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Speaker 6: and you would think, oh, maybe that's a dog bone
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Speaker 6: or coyote or something. It's an actual leg.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Nancy, I would going back to your thought
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Speaker 3: before about identifying, you know, a leg like this, which
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Speaker 3: is which appears to be fairly recent, You don'tso to
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Speaker 3: be looking at things such as tattoos other markings on
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Speaker 3: the skin that may be still there that could give
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Speaker 3: an indication, as to USA suggested, any people who may
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Speaker 3: have been missing in and around that timeframe. So investigators
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Speaker 3: will start to look at those type of things. Certainly,
12:47
Speaker 3: if the body part has a hand, maybe there are
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Speaker 3: rings or some other identifying marks that might be tied
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Speaker 3: back to perhaps some missing persons.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Alexis Tharaschuk. First, a severed leg washes up, well,
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Speaker 1: it's found, don't know if it washed up, but it's
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Speaker 1: found by Lake, Michigan. When I say wash up, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: I always think about Lacy Peterson and her unborn child, Connor,
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Speaker 1: because they washed up there at San Francisco Bay. You
13:16
Speaker 1: and I covered that together. Now, three days after the
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Speaker 1: severed leg is discovered beside Lake Michigan, worst Nightmare, body
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Speaker 1: parts on a playground. This is three days after the
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Speaker 1: severed legas found.
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Speaker 6: Tell me exactly three days after the severed legas found,
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Speaker 6: they find there's a park where kids play, like playground
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Speaker 6: with jungle gym, and human remains are found in body part. Now,
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Speaker 6: the police have not said what this body part is,
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Speaker 6: but it was found in a part and it's about
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Speaker 6: ten miles away from where the first one was found.
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Speaker 6: But again, Milwaukee's a huge city. Ten miles isn't that far.
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Speaker 1: Two? Doctor John Delatory joining me, licensed psychologist who specializes
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Speaker 1: in forensic psychology, a Dutch Deleatory placing body parts at
14:04
Speaker 1: a child's playground. First of all, I want to say,
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Speaker 1: don't you have a problem with that? But that's on
14:12
Speaker 1: so many levels. You've got a murder obviously, you've got
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Speaker 1: a dismemberment, and you have the killer. That's why when
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Speaker 1: I hear scattered across Milwaukee. This isn't scattered scattered like
14:27
Speaker 1: thrown out of the car, like litter or trash. This
14:30
Speaker 1: is intentionally placed at a playground by someone that must
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Speaker 1: know children are going to find a body part.
14:40
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, this is definitely intentional. I don't think that
14:43
Speaker 7: there's there's a specific placement for these body parts. I
14:49
Speaker 7: think this person wants to stroke fear in the community.
14:53
Speaker 7: It's not enough to stroke fear within the victim. It's
14:56
Speaker 7: more about also striking fear in the community for whatever
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Speaker 7: is is compelling this individual to engage in these behaviors.
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Speaker 7: But these are clearly designed to stroke a level of
15:11
Speaker 7: fear within each community to as a secondary part of
15:16
Speaker 7: whatever it is that this person is going through.
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Speaker 1: So I'm very curious. Earlier, Bill Daily, former FBI investigator,
15:26
Speaker 1: sparked the question, are dismemberments on the rise? Here we
15:35
Speaker 1: see someone murdering and dismembering. Now we've got two sets
15:40
Speaker 1: of body parts. Are they connected? Are they the same person?
15:44
Speaker 1: Are they two people? Are they more than two people? So,
15:48
Speaker 1: Bill Daily, the fact that this person, and let's just hope,
15:53
Speaker 1: is just one person, one killer at work dismembering the
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Speaker 1: mindset of placing the second set of body parts at
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Speaker 1: a playground. What do you make of that?
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Speaker 3: Bill, Yeah, Nancy, And I'm going to kind of borrow
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Speaker 3: a little bit from the people I know from the
16:12
Speaker 3: FBI's behavioral analysis side of the house, you know. And
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Speaker 3: it goes to show you kind of that that depravity
16:17
Speaker 3: and I think, you know, echoing what was just talked about.
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Speaker 3: You know, it goes to show you that someone wanted
16:22
Speaker 3: to make this kind of splash, wanted to have this
16:25
Speaker 3: kind of this this impression, this kind of fear that
16:29
Speaker 3: is out there, or perhaps even showing that they themselves
16:32
Speaker 3: are so powerful that they can do this, but doing
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Speaker 3: it too as a child's playground. And it does echo
16:37
Speaker 3: what I just mentioned before about some young young children
16:40
Speaker 3: going to school finding body parts in Stuffolk County, New York.
16:44
Speaker 3: You know, it's a certainly a life altering I'm sure
16:47
Speaker 3: situation for those those those children. But also it sends
16:51
Speaker 3: a fear through the community. People who go to parks,
16:53
Speaker 3: people who go and go jogging, or send the children
16:56
Speaker 3: off the play I mean, the thought that you can't
16:58
Speaker 3: even send people off to a park without being you know,
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Speaker 3: faced with some heenous act is terribly disruptive and disappointing
17:05
Speaker 3: to people in those communities.
17:07
Speaker 1: Doctor Eric Keason, isn't it true that there are rapid
17:10
Speaker 1: DNA tests that I think probably I most likely mitochondrial
17:15
Speaker 1: DNA on the mother's side only that were used that
17:18
Speaker 1: has been used for decades, for instance in war to
17:23
Speaker 1: get an immediate, almost immediate ID. So it's not like
17:28
Speaker 1: you've got to send off a DNA and wait for
17:30
Speaker 1: three weeks to get an answer. You can get within
17:33
Speaker 1: the same day a DNA answer. It's not one in
17:37
Speaker 1: five million, but it's one in five thousand, you know
17:44
Speaker 1: at worst. Isn't that true? Yes, you know, the aspect
17:49
Speaker 1: of murder, dismemberment and then placing the body parts where
17:56
Speaker 1: they will absolutely be found. Listen to this.
18:01
Speaker 8: Within twenty four hours, police respond to another call about
18:04
Speaker 8: the discovery of human remains on Saturday, just a few
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Speaker 8: blocks from the same West Side Milwaukee area as Friday's discovery.
18:12
Speaker 8: Police set up a crime scent near a park around
18:15
Speaker 8: seven to fifteen pm. The medical examiner arrives to remove
18:19
Speaker 8: the body part. Police block off the area and canvas
18:22
Speaker 8: Well pass midnight. According to neighbors.
18:25
Speaker 1: Okay Alexis Terochuk, a third set three sets of body
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Speaker 1: parts found. Tell me about the third discovery.
18:33
Speaker 6: The third discovery was in another park in the area.
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Speaker 6: So this is all south of Milwaukee, like the center
18:41
Speaker 6: of the big city. Tons of parks, all on the
18:44
Speaker 6: shore around the lake, which, as you're seeing in the map,
18:48
Speaker 6: the lake is to the east of the city and
18:53
Speaker 6: they're super close to each other, just blocks away from
18:56
Speaker 6: each other. So now three times we found body parts.
19:00
Speaker 6: There's the leg, then there's another site finding, then there's
19:03
Speaker 6: another one after that.
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Speaker 1: Four total parts.
19:08
Speaker 6: Human remains have been found, and they're not being identified
19:13
Speaker 6: at all. So that's the thing. The police are keeping
19:15
Speaker 6: this very close. They're not saying it was a hand.
19:18
Speaker 6: They're not saying, you know, a torso, a chest, another arm,
19:22
Speaker 6: another leg, none of that. The only thing that has
19:25
Speaker 6: been identified is the leg. The rest of them called
19:27
Speaker 6: human remains.
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Speaker 1: The third set of body parts found Curious Alexis Terschuk,
19:34
Speaker 1: joining us Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. All three
19:39
Speaker 1: sets of body parts were found in or near parks.
19:45
Speaker 1: The first one it was a little mislading. Yes, it
19:48
Speaker 1: was near Lake Michigan. We know that. We also know
19:51
Speaker 1: it's very steep there where the body parts were found
19:54
Speaker 1: going down to the water, but that was also near
19:58
Speaker 1: Warnamont Park just by Lake Michigan. It was at Warnemont
20:04
Speaker 1: Park near Lake Michigan.
20:07
Speaker 6: The second set was found in a park just about
20:10
Speaker 6: eleven miles away. This was the Playground Park. And then
20:13
Speaker 6: two more are found really within you know, a triangle,
20:17
Speaker 6: really an area where you know, two other parks. And
20:20
Speaker 6: these aren't huge parks. It's not like a state park.
20:23
Speaker 6: They're small neighborhood parks where things are found and that's
20:26
Speaker 6: why they're found so quickly by people that are going
20:28
Speaker 6: to them.
20:29
Speaker 1: You mean parks is in jungle gym parks, Yes, exactly,
20:32
Speaker 1: And that was important to me, Alexis because if you've
20:34
Speaker 1: got an open park, which is basically green space, that's
20:38
Speaker 1: one thing. But a park where you've got a merrygo
20:43
Speaker 1: round or swings or jungle gym clearly meant for children
20:47
Speaker 1: as opposed to just green space where you can walk around.
20:50
Speaker 1: That's a whole another animal, right there. So three parks,
20:55
Speaker 1: three parks, this is meant for children to find. The
21:00
Speaker 1: by Lake Michigan at Warnemont Park, the second one, according
21:03
Speaker 1: to my notes anyway, April five, The first is April two,
21:06
Speaker 1: The second is April five, near North thirtieth and Lisbon Street.
21:10
Speaker 1: The third one, as I recalled, not too far away,
21:13
Speaker 1: a couple of blocks away at North thirtieth and Galena
21:17
Speaker 1: West Galena Street. So all three actually at playgrounds, all
21:23
Speaker 1: in little parks.
21:25
Speaker 6: Somewhere they're not and they're in the neighborhoods. These aren't
21:28
Speaker 6: huge rural areas. It's in the middle of the city
21:31
Speaker 6: and the middle of neighborhoods, you know, small parks between houses.
21:36
Speaker 1: Following the discovery of three sets of remains, a blanket
21:41
Speaker 1: is found Listen Shade.
21:44
Speaker 2: Robinson's family joins the searches near the playground over the weekend.
21:47
Speaker 2: While police find unidentified human remains, Robinson's family discovers a
21:51
Speaker 2: blanket belonging to Shawdeh. The distinct pink blanket pictures Shade
21:55
Speaker 2: with her beloved dog, Coco Chanel, who passed away. As
21:58
Speaker 2: more human remains are discovers, the family is losing hope
22:01
Speaker 2: Shade will be found.
22:02
Speaker 1: A lot Alexis Tereschuk. Soon after that, a car is
22:09
Speaker 1: found burning and a blanket is found. I'm curious about
22:14
Speaker 1: the blanket. Let's talk about the blanket. First, what is
22:17
Speaker 1: the blanket?
22:17
Speaker 6: The blanket has a young woman on it and with
22:20
Speaker 6: a dog, and it looks to be like a tribute
22:23
Speaker 6: to the dog that passed away. It's we're saying rest
22:25
Speaker 6: in peace. And it's pink and it has a picture
22:28
Speaker 6: the dog. Looks like the dog was named co Cokenel,
22:30
Speaker 6: or maybe the girl is named Cokochnel. But this is
22:32
Speaker 6: what it looks like, like a tribute to someone's beloved
22:35
Speaker 6: pet that died. But they find this in the park.
22:37
Speaker 6: It's dirty, it's in not good shape, and it's in
22:42
Speaker 6: a park.
22:42
Speaker 1: Alexis curious, is this blanket? And we actually have one
22:48
Speaker 1: of these with our dog fat Boy and our cat
22:51
Speaker 1: Cinnamon on it. The twins got it for Christmas. We
22:54
Speaker 1: have a pit tribute blanket and the twins fight over it.
22:59
Speaker 1: So was that blanket near what are the parts where
23:04
Speaker 1: the body parts were found?
23:05
Speaker 6: Yes, it was, and it's clearly a beloved pet.
23:07
Speaker 1: It's pink.
23:08
Speaker 6: It has a girl smiling on it. It's something that
23:11
Speaker 6: somebody really loved.
23:12
Speaker 1: Girl smiling on it. You know, curious right there, I'm
23:18
Speaker 1: curious how you would approach this bill daily formally with
23:21
Speaker 1: the FBI. You find a discarded blanket, filthy wet with
23:28
Speaker 1: a pet on it. And let's see it again. Let
23:30
Speaker 1: me see that blanket because I can see the face
23:33
Speaker 1: of a woman on the top right near the body
23:38
Speaker 1: parts where they were found. How do you go about
23:43
Speaker 1: tracing this blanket and is it connected?
23:47
Speaker 3: Well, I mean there's really you know, several things you
23:49
Speaker 3: can do. Someone take longer than others. I mean, you
23:51
Speaker 3: can forensically start to treat that in the laboratory, you know,
23:54
Speaker 3: look for traces of hairs or other fibers, or try
23:58
Speaker 3: to identify who that person, who the owner was, And
24:01
Speaker 3: you can also do things such as even using facial recognition,
24:05
Speaker 3: you can scan the image of the face and compare
24:08
Speaker 3: it to known databases to see if when pops up.
24:10
Speaker 3: There's technology out there that allows law enforcement to search
24:14
Speaker 3: publicly available databases like drivers license databases, etc. So you know,
24:19
Speaker 3: some things you can start to do to try to
24:20
Speaker 3: find out if they're interested in finding who the owner
24:23
Speaker 3: of the blanket is, and it certainly sounds like it'd
24:26
Speaker 3: be something you'd want to find out given some of
24:28
Speaker 3: the other suspicious circumstances they're occurring around the city.
24:31
Speaker 1: Then to add to the mystery a car set on fire. Listen.
24:36
Speaker 9: Three days after missing Shoulday Robinson's car is found burning
24:41
Speaker 9: in an alley near thirtieth and Lisbon Street. Milwaukee police
24:45
Speaker 9: find an unspecified human body part Friday evening at a
24:48
Speaker 9: playground just a block away. Over the weekend, authorities return
24:53
Speaker 9: to the area to continue searching, focusing on the woods
24:57
Speaker 9: and train tracks behind the park. An identify remains are
25:01
Speaker 9: recovered both Saturday and Sunday.
25:03
Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk a car on fire, and now we learn
25:09
Speaker 1: that that car belongs to who.
25:12
Speaker 6: Shaw Dave Robinson. She is nineteen years old. She is
25:16
Speaker 6: still in high school, but she's taking classes at the
25:18
Speaker 6: local technical college. She's about to graduate. She has a
25:21
Speaker 6: full time job. She is working at a pizza place
25:25
Speaker 6: right near her house. And the car belongs to her,
25:29
Speaker 6: and it is found one block away from the park,
25:32
Speaker 6: one of the parks where the human remains were found.
25:36
Speaker 6: It is burned from the inside, something that the police
25:39
Speaker 6: have noticed. They said it wasn't something outside didn't catch
25:43
Speaker 6: the car on fire. It burned from the inside, which
25:47
Speaker 6: led them to think that obviously something very bad had
25:50
Speaker 6: happened and somebody had set this fire inside. The car,
25:52
Speaker 6: and she is missing.
25:54
Speaker 1: To Matthew Mangina, joining US high profile lawyer out of
25:57
Speaker 1: Lawrence County, Pennsylvania and author of The Executioners Matthew Me
26:01
Speaker 1: and Gino. Tracking a car usually isn't an easy matter
26:06
Speaker 1: because there's a vent VIN number that's etched really on
26:11
Speaker 1: a metal plate inside the car, and you can trace
26:15
Speaker 1: that VENT. It's like a fingerprint, and unless it's been
26:19
Speaker 1: tampered with, like the vent's replaced, you can tell who
26:23
Speaker 1: bought it. And then the chain of custody of that
26:25
Speaker 1: has been sold and resold through insurance records and DMV records.
26:30
Speaker 1: So that's an easy matter. But this brings a whole
26:33
Speaker 1: nother level to it. Of arson. You know, I tried
26:37
Speaker 1: a lot of arson cases, and first you have to
26:40
Speaker 1: prove there was a crime to start with, and that
26:42
Speaker 1: it wasn't an accident, and that can be a herculean
26:45
Speaker 1: task at times very difficult. Then once you prove it's
26:48
Speaker 1: a crime, you got to prove who did it. But
26:50
Speaker 1: if these are connected, you've got a person who is
26:55
Speaker 1: responsible for three sets of body parts, you've got a
26:59
Speaker 1: missing high school girl, and you've got a car set
27:04
Speaker 1: on fire. Right now, I think some of the best
27:07
Speaker 1: evidence is what we're going to find in that car.
27:09
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I mean certainly the police are going to
27:12
Speaker 10: scour that vehicle for any evidence that they can find,
27:17
Speaker 10: you know, But when we start to put these pieces together,
27:20
Speaker 10: we have a missing person, we have her vehicle which
27:26
Speaker 10: has been set a fire, and then you know, we
27:29
Speaker 10: know that through searching the area where these body parts
27:34
Speaker 10: were found, that a blanket which can identifies Chardai in
27:40
Speaker 10: this park. So now we're starting to get a bigger
27:45
Speaker 10: picture of what's going on here.
27:47
Speaker 4: You know, she's.
27:48
Speaker 10: Missing, her family is worried about her. Her family is
27:54
Speaker 10: really in a position where they're saying, you know, maybe
27:57
Speaker 10: the worst has happened here. The police have to match
28:00
Speaker 10: these body parts with Charda or whoever they may be
28:07
Speaker 10: in order to bring this together as a homicide.
28:11
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got quite a bit of circumstantial evidence
28:14
Speaker 1: linking all of these facts. You've got a missing high
28:18
Speaker 1: school girl. You've got body parts, which, of course, according
28:21
Speaker 1: to doctor Eric asen By, now they can determine is
28:25
Speaker 1: a female. And you've got this blanket, You've got the
28:30
Speaker 1: car body parts, we know it's a female. All in
28:33
Speaker 1: close proximity to doctor John Delatory joining us, a renowned
28:37
Speaker 1: psychologist who specializes in forensic psychology. Doctor Delatory, I was
28:43
Speaker 1: just mentioning that my children have one of those pet
28:47
Speaker 1: tribute blankets, and for that blanket to be found filed
28:55
Speaker 1: the discarded wet out in some playground, that would be
29:01
Speaker 1: highly unusual. And we've seen blankets, personal blankets attached to
29:08
Speaker 1: a lot of cases. Just for an example, Kelly Anthony
29:14
Speaker 1: was buried or not really buried, just thrown away like
29:19
Speaker 1: trash by her mother, top mom. Casey Anthony with her
29:24
Speaker 1: favorite blanket, And I could list many many more cases
29:29
Speaker 1: where a personal blanket a blanket, not something else, a
29:35
Speaker 1: blanket is with the dead body. And here we're finding
29:40
Speaker 1: her personal blanket with her face on it, for Pete's sake,
29:44
Speaker 1: near body parts. So in my mind they absolutely are connected. Yeah,
29:50
Speaker 1: they could be.
29:50
Speaker 7: Here's what I would say is that the placement of
29:53
Speaker 7: the blanket will tell us a lot about why that
29:55
Speaker 7: blanket is there.
29:57
Speaker 4: So if it's laid out like that.
29:58
Speaker 7: Where it's clear that you can see her face on there,
30:01
Speaker 7: then I think the person that put it there is
30:04
Speaker 7: trying to tell us that these are who the body
30:07
Speaker 7: parts belonged to. If the blanket was maybe crumpled up
30:10
Speaker 7: and maybe someone just kind of extended the blanket, I
30:13
Speaker 7: think that's probably trying to tell us that this person
30:16
Speaker 7: was discarded the same way that the blanket was discarded.
30:19
Speaker 7: So how the blanket was found tells us more about
30:22
Speaker 7: who put it there than I think probably most people would.
30:26
Speaker 1: Consider crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know another issue,
30:42
Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk, we were all on pins and needles trying
30:48
Speaker 1: to find Gabby Petito and her family told us Alexis
30:54
Speaker 1: that they had received several unusual texts that didn't seem
30:59
Speaker 1: to because coming from her. For instance, one of them
31:02
Speaker 1: referred to her grandfather by his proper name. Who does that?
31:07
Speaker 1: Like if I sent a text regarding my mom, I
31:10
Speaker 1: would say, hey, where's mother? I wouldn't say where is
31:13
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Stokes Grace? I wouldn't say that. And in this case,
31:21
Speaker 1: Chade's mother, Sheena Scarborough, states that she got a very
31:26
Speaker 1: odd text from her daughter just before these remains were discovered,
31:31
Speaker 1: asking her mom because she had fifteen dollars and she
31:34
Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, Like my children wouldn't do that because
31:38
Speaker 1: they have a bank card connected to me and a
31:41
Speaker 1: credit card connected to me. They don't have to call
31:44
Speaker 1: me if they want to drive through McDonald's and get
31:47
Speaker 1: a quarter pounder. So the mom immediately knew, Okay, that's weird.
31:53
Speaker 1: She knew something was wrong. Why do I care, Alexis
31:57
Speaker 1: because to me, that starts the timeline right there.
32:00
Speaker 6: And so at the same time she had been reported
32:05
Speaker 6: missing but not showing up for work. She always showed
32:08
Speaker 6: up for work. She was very reliable. She was a
32:10
Speaker 6: very responsible young woman, balancing school, two schools really and work.
32:14
Speaker 6: And so then her mom gets a text message saying
32:17
Speaker 6: I need fifteen dollars. And that's such a strange amount.
32:20
Speaker 6: I mean fifteen dollars. Maybe the person you know at
32:23
Speaker 6: work could give you fifteen dollars if he needed fifteen dollars.
32:26
Speaker 6: So she was very suspicious about it. And that is
32:28
Speaker 6: around the same time that her coworkers are reporting that
32:31
Speaker 6: she did not show up for her shift, which was
32:33
Speaker 6: completely out of character for.
32:35
Speaker 1: Her Bill Daily. I can't stress enough how important a
32:38
Speaker 1: timeline is because that could rule in or rule out
32:42
Speaker 1: potential suspects. For instance, if I think I've got a suspect,
32:47
Speaker 1: and I know what time that unusual text was what
32:50
Speaker 1: if my suspect is out of town or at work,
32:54
Speaker 1: clot Den, then that suspect is out. So you know,
33:00
Speaker 1: there are a lot of ways to look at it.
33:01
Speaker 1: But here's an example, and timeline start in very unusual
33:05
Speaker 1: ways for INSTIs here's a high profile timeline start. Do
33:08
Speaker 1: you remember in the OJ Simpson the prosecution neighbors heard,
33:15
Speaker 1: as they put it, a plaintive well from the dog akda.
33:22
Speaker 1: They had never heard it before. It's like the dog
33:24
Speaker 1: was crying and screaming at the same time. They had
33:28
Speaker 1: never heard that. And I'm telling you that marked the
33:33
Speaker 1: beginning of the timeline in that case. About right then
33:38
Speaker 1: OJ Simpson was running back to his Bronco to get
33:41
Speaker 1: get away from the crime scene. And Simpson, if you disagree,
33:45
Speaker 1: come on and explain to me what really happened that
33:48
Speaker 1: night and subject yourself to my cross examination. So what
33:51
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that text right there could mark the
33:55
Speaker 1: beginning of this timeline.
33:56
Speaker 3: Here right now, most of being a timeline of suspicious
33:59
Speaker 3: kind of the open behavior. But we also need to
34:01
Speaker 3: look at the timeline much broad up border than this.
34:03
Speaker 3: We need to look at seeing where that phone was
34:06
Speaker 3: and by using analysis and the MPI is great at this,
34:09
Speaker 3: and perhaps they were helping Milwaukee Police on this with
34:11
Speaker 3: their cast team. They can start to look and see
34:14
Speaker 3: the location of that phone all the way along, including
34:17
Speaker 3: when that text message was sent, and then perhaps further
34:21
Speaker 3: on where that phone was until maybe the battery dies
34:24
Speaker 3: or where it's turned off. So there's a lot of
34:27
Speaker 3: things in here, but the timeline, as you said, is
34:29
Speaker 3: very important because it does start to suggest that perhaps
34:32
Speaker 3: there was someone else who was in control of that phone.
34:36
Speaker 2: Shade Robinson's family joins the searches near the playground over
34:40
Speaker 2: the weekend. While police find unidentified human remains, Robinson's family
34:44
Speaker 2: discovers a blanket belonging to Shade. The distinct pink blanket
34:48
Speaker 2: pictures Shade with her beloved dog, Coco Chanel, who passed away.
34:51
Speaker 2: As more human remains are discovered, the family is losing
34:54
Speaker 2: hope Shade will be found alive.
34:56
Speaker 1: Facts lead police to an apartment complex and they spend
35:01
Speaker 1: more than twenty four hours searching a particular upper unit
35:06
Speaker 1: of the complex, a duplex, and they state that they
35:10
Speaker 1: discover blood and the stairwell and on a comforter. The
35:16
Speaker 1: homeowner is detained. Take a listen to this.
35:20
Speaker 11: Milwaukee Sheriffs reveal Maxwell Anderson remains in custody as a
35:24
Speaker 11: person of interest connected to the remains found along Lake Michigan.
35:28
Speaker 11: Anderson has not yet been criminally charged, but does have
35:30
Speaker 11: a rap sheet. Anderson has several convictions including disorderly conduct
35:35
Speaker 11: domestic abuse in dui over the last ten years. In
35:38
Speaker 11: two incidents, Anderson became violent with relatives and in a
35:42
Speaker 11: third beat a stranger who intervened in an argument between
35:45
Speaker 11: Anderson and a woman. Anderson is said to work as
35:48
Speaker 11: a bartender for several establishments in the Milwaukee area.
35:51
Speaker 1: Alexis Tereschuk, What if anything does this guy, this convict,
35:57
Speaker 1: have to do with a high school girl?
36:00
Speaker 6: So the police are keeping a little close to their chest.
36:02
Speaker 6: But what they have said is cell phone records. So
36:07
Speaker 6: a cell phone of his pinged near either where they
36:11
Speaker 6: found the car or where they found the sever perhaps
36:15
Speaker 6: one of the human remains, but mostly the car, as
36:18
Speaker 6: cell phone data put him in proximity to where they
36:22
Speaker 6: believe that Shade was missing or last seen. So that
36:25
Speaker 6: is a big telltale sign at his phone.
36:27
Speaker 1: To me, Bill Daily, it sounds like stranger on stranger
36:32
Speaker 1: because we haven't found any link between this convict and
36:36
Speaker 1: a high school girl. But evidence is pouring in to
36:39
Speaker 1: make that charging decision. For instance, blood found in Anderson's
36:44
Speaker 1: home matches the leg discovered at Warnamont Park. Blood evidence
36:50
Speaker 1: was discovered in Anderson's residence. And also we're learning that
36:55
Speaker 1: Anderson quote was in contact with a missing person based
37:00
Speaker 1: on those cell phone records. Okay, what about it? Bill?
37:04
Speaker 3: And that's the effect you know, and reading reading through
37:07
Speaker 3: on this story, it was this person of interest attorney
37:12
Speaker 3: who came out and actually said that police had used
37:15
Speaker 3: some cell power information and perhaps some was kind of
37:19
Speaker 3: vague as far as you know, perhaps some contact or
37:22
Speaker 3: some knowledge of a missing person. So is the number
37:26
Speaker 3: of things tied together here? But as you rightly said,
37:28
Speaker 3: is that you know this is only enough to perhaps
37:32
Speaker 3: attain the individual. It's nothing more to say that there's
37:35
Speaker 3: there's a forensic evernence that ties this all together neatly.
37:38
Speaker 3: And that's what I think policemen trying to do is
37:41
Speaker 3: trying to work very very quickly, do DNA analysis, to
37:46
Speaker 3: cell phone analysis, do all the other forensic analysis they
37:49
Speaker 3: can in order to give that to prosecutors so they
37:51
Speaker 3: can move on this case. If in fact this person
37:54
Speaker 3: of interest is involved.
37:55
Speaker 1: All in eight is two DNA matches and they don't
37:59
Speaker 1: have to be great. They can mitochondrial matches. So to you,
38:03
Speaker 1: medical examiner, doctor Esen, I need a DNA match pronto
38:08
Speaker 1: between the blood in his apartment and the severed leg.
38:13
Speaker 1: Then I need to match his severed leg DNA to
38:16
Speaker 1: shaw Day. That's all I need, and I'm ready for
38:18
Speaker 1: a murder one charge. Agree, disagree?
38:21
Speaker 2: Agreed?
38:21
Speaker 1: How hard is that?
38:22
Speaker 4: It shouldn't take very long. Technology is very good these days.
38:25
Speaker 1: What about it, Matthew Mangino? You think I need more
38:27
Speaker 1: than that? I got a severed leg, a missing girl,
38:29
Speaker 1: and blood in his apartment. They all three match.
38:31
Speaker 10: Well, certainly that would be adequate, but I would always
38:35
Speaker 10: want as much evidence as I can. You know, this
38:38
Speaker 10: is these incidents, the fire, the urson. It's in a city.
38:43
Speaker 10: I'm sure there's some video out there. I'd like to
38:45
Speaker 10: see some of that, if it could be retrieved. I'd
38:47
Speaker 10: like to see if we have any additional video the regina.
38:51
Speaker 1: It ain't Christmas yet, man, I'm not going to tie
38:53
Speaker 1: it up with a bow and put it on the
38:55
Speaker 1: Christmas tree until we go to indictment, right, now I
38:59
Speaker 1: want this guy behind bars. I don't want him to
39:02
Speaker 1: get out. We need a formal charge to hold him.
39:07
Speaker 1: Then you can work around the clock and build the case.
39:11
Speaker 1: We need him to stay behind bars until the case
39:15
Speaker 1: is built. We wait as justice unfolds. If you know
39:19
Speaker 1: or think you know anything about this case or about Shahda,
39:23
Speaker 1: dial four one four nine three five seven two five
39:27
Speaker 1: two repeat four one four nine, three, five seven two
39:31
Speaker 1: five two. We stop now and we remember. American hero
39:36
Speaker 1: police officer Paul Elmstrand, just twenty seven, shot in the
39:41
Speaker 1: line of duty with officer Matthew Rugi and paramedic Adam
39:47
Speaker 1: fin said they were responding to a domestic call. Officer
39:52
Speaker 1: Elmstrand survived by wife Cindy, two year old daughter Maria,
39:57
Speaker 1: and baby son Matteo. American hero police Officer Paul Holmstrand,
40:05
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,