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Stay Authentically Connected to Your Goals with Leadership Expert, Melissa Hartley · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi.
• 0:36
  It's Ann Roxanne, Dick Derhodge, of authentical opening with Roxanne.
• 0:40
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:42
  Today, I have a special guest, Melissa Hartley with us today.
• 0:45
  Hi, Melissa.
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  How are you doing today?
• 0:48
  Great.
• 0:48
  How are you today?
• 0:49
  Good.
• 0:50
  Good.
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  So Melissa and I have, been spending a, I would say a fair amount of time over, COVID together,
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  virtually doing some, work as part of a writing group.
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  And, you know, Melissa was name came across, you know, my desk, and I thought, well, what a
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  perfect opportunity to talk to someone with, such massive background in the arena of, talent
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  management.
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  So let me just tell you a little bit about her, and then we'll jump right in with all the
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  questions that we have.
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  So a bit of a Melissa.
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  She brings about 20 years experience in designing and delivering talent management
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  solutions for leaders.
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  Professionals at all levels of organizations.
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  She's a professional development guru who has a reputation for excellent consulting partnering
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  and facilitation skills, which have gained her the trust of professionals and leaders alike.
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  She has a master's in leadership and a master's certificate in executive coaching for Royal
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  Ridge University, and she's certified in various, organizational tool assessments,
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  strengths, deployments, inventory, trust catalyst inventory, Myers Briggs amongst a lot
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  of other things.
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  So, Melissa, we're gonna jump right into things and talk a little bit about your experience,
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  based on what we're seeing out there in the the corporate world or or or associations.
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  What kind of things are you seeing right now in reference to talents with the people you're
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  consulting with are coaching?
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  I'm kind of seeing sort of two main areas.
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  1, where, people have either been laid off or furloughed and the trajectory they thought they
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  were on or hoped they were on you know, abruptly stopped.
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  And then there's then there's the the other folks where they are just massively overwhelmed
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  day to day.
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  So they've got to get their regular work done and keep achieving at the same level and manage
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  the ambiguity, manage whether it children, whether it's learning, whether it's, you know,
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  the business processes.
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  So those are probably the two big buckets that I'm seeing out there.
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  So I guess the need for each one would be a bit different if we think about that.
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  The person that's furloughed is kinda thinking, okay.
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  Like, to your point, now what?
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  Based on, a lot of things that we're seeing in in the economy.
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  The person that's at work, to some degree, might feel, wow, I've got a job, which is
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  fantastic, but my goodness, now how do I fill the gaps and be able to meet this high level,
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  of need, to fill in, you know, the roles that maybe they've been left behind, not just with
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  their position, but also to do other things that maybe fell out of their purvey day to day.
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  And you said the 3rd group is the person that's kind of trucking along and now is starting to
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  rethink where are they in their career track?
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  And I think even when you look at those other 2, the furloughed and or laid off as well as
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  the overwhelm inside the organization still.
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  I think both of them come to that point where it's the now what in my career.
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  You know, it's like COVID presented this this situation of okay, is is this really a good
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  fit?
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  Is this really where I thought I'd be or want to go?
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  So let's let's talk about each group then and kinda Sure.
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  What are they when they're coming to you now?
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  Right?
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  What what are the some of the core things that people are coming forward with now, that are
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  that are in organizations, like the ones that you're you're coaching at present.
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  When they're inside organizations, it's really about helping them I would say quiet down the
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  overwhelm quiet doubt whether it's, frustration, whether it's panic, you know, all
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  those overwhelming feelings, quiet down the overwhelm to then gain clarity.
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  Right.
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  And getting clarity at that point because I would say one would, you know, generally,
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  companies have you know, projected goals.
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  They have a, you know, their their strat plans all figured out.
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  But what we know is that in this day and age.
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  It's kinda like it's a it's a day to day kinda, you know, kinda week by week where companies
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  are having to pivot based on some of the things that they're being exposed to in their
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  marketplace.
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  So how do people then they're overwhelmed, frustrated, we know we don't like change.
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  I don't know about you, Melissa, but most people don't like change.
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  Yeah.
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  There's some kind of change I like.
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  Yeah.
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  There's I exactly.
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  It's it's like I inadvertently dig my heels in.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  So all those things being said, but that so I'm trying to kind of function as best as possible,
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  but the business objectives may change week to week month to month.
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  Mhmm.
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  So how are people coping with that frustration there's one thing to say, okay, I'm frustrated,
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  and I'm gonna learn some skills.
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  But if I need if I keep knowing it's coming at me, what do you find has been helpful with when
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  you coach with those people versus some of the people that are coping as effectively as
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  possible versus people that aren't coping as well?
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  Very simply finding and carving out, either some small space you know, for some people,
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  it's taking 10 minutes at the beginning of the day.
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  For some people, it's, it's actually just getting grounded with their team.
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  So if you think of, you know, a leader trying to find space in this particular situation.
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  It's okay, everybody.
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  Let's have a morning, 5 minute huddle.
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  Whether it's by a conference call or zoom, whichever, you know, we know that the video
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  calls and all that kind of stuff is overwhelming as well.
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  Sometimes just a 5 minute call, just so that we get each other grounded, we we get connected.
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  So finding what it is that you need to get that grounding, make that space for yourself,
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  whether it's daily, whether it's weekly, just something that's consistent.
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  So no matter what else is gonna go on around you, because you know it will, find that tiny
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  space and keep it.
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  Right.
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  And it's really, you know, I think of, you know, different personalities when I coach or
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  Mhmm.
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  When I speak, and then you kinda think, you know, one thing is gonna some people are good
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  at, you know, priming themselves in the morning.
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  Some people just need to be able to, sit and kinda structure a bit of time, but it's really
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  leaders understanding that maybe people that would they would have managed or letting away,
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  maybe that person's even shifted with what are their real moments at this point?
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  Cause I I think I even think of myself, Melissa, and certain things that I used to do,
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  but I think, oh, this this works all the time.
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  And now it's, like, it's not working anymore.
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  Mhmm.
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  Exactly.
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  Yeah.
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  Be be open to the Okay.
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  Why isn't that as, satisfying or fulfilling as it was before?
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  You know, I, I think, one of the other pieces of this puzzle that I'm seeing very
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  consistently is many people aren't giving themselves the break to recognize that, you
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  know, I think Renee Brown labeled it as we're actually going through a collective grieving.
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  Right?
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  The, the old way whether it was good, bad, or ugly Mhmm.
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  Is gone.
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  Yeah.
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  And, you know, we we've just been thrown into a chaotic situation and we have to adjust, and
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  many of us aren't making time to actually grieve some of the old things.
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  Even if we didn't like them.
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  So that processing of, of the feeling So recognizing it, processing it, then moving
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  forward.
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  So, really, that's an important fact.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, it's interesting as, you know, yesterday was my dad's 84th birthday, and I
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  went to church with him for the first time in a long time, and what the kind of the gist of of
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  the talk of church was that we've had so much loss that we haven't stop to acknowledge the
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  impact of what this this whole concept of we've had so much of it, and we're just trying to
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  keep it together so we can cope with COVID, but we really haven't gotten to the point where we
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  can kinda say it like, or it Barrett's let it go because the let it go part, we can't really
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  kinda let it go because it keeps coming back as a wave.
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  Exactly.
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  There's another one, and then there's another one the, you know, it's like, you know, you you
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  kind of think, okay.
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  Well, finally, we're in phase 3.
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  We're gonna kinda get through things as much as possible, and then school comes up.
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  And then, you know, then we see what school, what everybody went through to kind of figure
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  out how they were gonna, rejig their lives, and now we're seeing things coming up again.
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  So that that whole concept of collective grief, I think, is it's it's actually brilliant
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  because it's so true.
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  We think we're hoping, but are we truly stopping
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  Yeah.
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  And you know what?
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  We probably are coping, and we are doing well.
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  We are making progress in so many ways, but it's like there's this parallel engine parallel
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  train, you know, on a, on a track that's right beside.
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  It has to do with that that whole other thing of the way things were are are not really
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  anymore.
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  And we don't even know, and we can't know.
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  Yeah.
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  So the
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  to get people unstuck then, it's really about starting there.
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  From what what I'm hearing you say Yeah.
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  Is, like, we're talking and we're talking about the furloughed.
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  We're talking about the person that has gone back and is trying to kinda it's kinda bob and
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  weave and try to figure out how to pivot and adapt.
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  But amidst that, all of that, everybody's going through this kind of what next kind of concept
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  on a global level.
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  Yeah.
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  But also, uh-uh, you know, at a at a corporate level or even within their lives with children.
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  So that's a lot of often say it's like the moving plates all the time.
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  We try to keep spinning.
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  That's the bottom.
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  And it's
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  like, oh, geez.
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  It's almost too doubt at all, this one's, you know, needs a little bit of touching.
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  So there's really, you know, if we kinda look at it as we all are drained, and I often said,
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  you know, to say to people that I'm dealing with now or speaking to that, we have to
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  acknowledge that that's the reality of what we're we're working in and try our best to be
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  able to, you know, get through it a bit at a time.
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  Now you talked a little bit about let's talk about, people who feel stuck.
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  So they're in their role or they're in whatever situation, whether for loader within an
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  organization.
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  And they feel like they're not able to make progress in their career or their profession.
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  That's what you mean.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  So what, you know, like, with all the things we've just talked about, it makes sense that a
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  lot of people would be feeling like that.
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  So so what do they do?
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  Like, what do they do again?
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  When I when I work with people, I really dig deeper on this one about, you know, what, what
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  is going on, that has contributed to them feeling this way.
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  So I I think there's there's so many factors.
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  In in the one that I've been seeing coming up, more often, I would say with, I would say mid
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  career or younger women.
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  So women in, you know, in the front half of their career into mid career, It there's a bit
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  of a seemingly, a bit of a trend around, okay, the external definition of success is,
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  contributing to them feeling stuck.
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  Or the organizational definition of success.
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  You know, what someone else has defined as the next step, or, you know, and the mentality is
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  really, trying to drive into okay is, is it an attitude of lack, like, that you feel like
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  you're not enough, or is it that it's not a good fit?
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  Like, that you would have to change yourself too much or bend over backwards too much.
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  In your career progress to fit.
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  And that's given you the clues that I would think at that point.
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  You know, I remember being with an organized vision.
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  And when I started, my I would say that I was in alignment based on what I wanted for my
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  career at that time.
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  But after being there for about 4 or 5 years, I was like, the the I had to your point, I had to
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  work too hard just to feel like I was, like, you know, hitting the ground and achieving a
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  bit, and it it took so much out of me.
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  And then after a while, I was like, I'm I think I'm burning out here.
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  Like, I Personally, yeah.
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  And and I I'm, I mean, I'm very comfortable going in into this space with clients and, and
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  leaders themselves, you know, who are even managing people.
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  Like, okay, I had this person on my you know, next to be promoted list, and now they're just
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  it seems like they're stuck.
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  How can I help them?
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  And a lot of times, it's that burnout.
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  You know, they've been trying so the person has been trying so hard to fit whatever the, the
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  definition is, the box.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  And then it's, wait a second.
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  I just not sustainable anymore.
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  And that's a tough, you know, I remember with me because I'm I'm the type that doesn't
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  supposedly quit.
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  Right?
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  So I was, I remember thinking, Well, this stuff was was working before.
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  And when I recognized that the the objectives of, the company that I was with, you know,
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  we're we're no longer fitting where I was going internally with my values and where I saw my
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  career going, and I had to be real with myself to say, I think I've my tenure is done.
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  I had gotten what I needed.
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  There had been such such a shift in the business multiple times over.
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  Like, the, you know, the iteration, the last one I was in, I realized I'm no longer in line
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  with my business objectives to stay at this con company and continue to grow.
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  And I think, you know, I remember being as a, a younger executive, I thought, oh, I just have
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  to work harder.
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  I just have to do certain things Yes.
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  Much more.
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  And and it really didn't matter what was happening.
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  And I'm sure a lot of people that you coach come up against that where And most of us don't
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  wanna kinda sit down and say, is it time to make a different decision, especially in this
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  time, unless I think it would be hard because with us looking at the job losses and, you
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  know, you know, I think in April, they set up to two million people in Canada, those types of
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  things.
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  Most people are saying just hold on to your job.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  Right?
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  Which is a hard thing because we all obviously need to take care of our families and stuff
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  like that.
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  But, you know, with people like that, are are people making the decisions to meet, leave
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  positions now, or are they just kind of staying put until they kind of see what's happening
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  with the economy?
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  Yeah.
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  I, I, I think it's, I I'm seeing more of the people staying put right now.
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  And it is causing, like, in, I, I tend to refer to it almost as, like, they're leaking They
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  leak in terms of their, their energy and or frustration or, and it comes out in other ways,
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  but I I can speak from experience as well as one of my most difficult, moments or, like, if
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  I was to list a few of the most difficult moments in my career, they have to do with
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  making that decision.
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  You know, if I look at a pattern and and lay my career out and and go, okay, every job I had or
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  place I've been, you know, are there any patterns?
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  And, and I would say that is probably one of my one of my patterns is that I tend to stay a tad
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  too long.
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  I've got the loyalty gene Like, you know, if you could measure loyalty in terms of a
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  characteristic and who's in the 98th percentile, I'm probably in
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  probably right up there.
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  Yeah.
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  And leaving those connections.
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  I know that was always when I,
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  you know, because,
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  you know, you kinda get into that modes and you do your job and you, you know, you do, you deal
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  with all these things and then you're thinking about making a move and then you think I'm
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  gonna miss so and so and so and the connections that I've I've oftentimes, that was what I have
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  to sit back and go, okay.
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  Hold on.
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  I, you know, you could keep those connections with people, but they'll never be they they'll
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  some, you maybe have a small subset of people that you might state as connected to but you,
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  you know, the professional connections does shift again, where, you know, certain people
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  you might align to, but generally, it does shift things.
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  And I, I know with me, oftentimes, it's, I, you know, I'm like you.
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  I'm a loyal person as well.
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  And I, you know, I think, oh, you know, I'd like to stay connected so and so, but then you
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  have to kind of be realistic to go inside yourself and say, you know, what what's best
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  for me.
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  So
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  for people that are struggling, like you said, because people might be staying put, what kind
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  of things should they kind of look into to be successful at this time in their lives, be it
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  at home or at work, Like, what what if they're trying to stay authenticly connected to
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  themselves
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  Yep.
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  Staying
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  on a job right now because, okay, I'm gonna have to weather the storm till I get a little
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  bit more consistency.
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  So what kind of things could people do, in other parts of their life to stay connect
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  authentically connected to themselves?
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  Where
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  many of my, my clients and colleagues have gone is finding the places of, I'm gonna call it
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  energy.
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  So finding those places of energy, you know, a positive relationship.
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  So if you have a friend that just every time you get on the phone, you know, you feel better
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  after.
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  Yeah.
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  And, you know, from a work sense the there's people that are making very strategic choices
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  about where they spend their time, and it has to do with lining up with that generative
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  energy.
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  So knowing learning, if you don't know, learning what is it that gives you that that.
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  And then you know, if it, if it takes volunteering, if it takes, having a
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  conversation with somebody just to learn more, you know, I know in one of, the association
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  that I work with, there's a few people that they're in that difficult place in their
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  career.
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  And they just want to work more with other like minded people in our organizational development
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  community.
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  So they don't necessarily want any fancy, you know, title or anything, like, on the board of
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  directors, if that's considered fancy, but they want, okay.
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  Well, can I host one of one of the meetings?
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  You know, I know it's colleagues.
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  It's like, you know, everybody's just getting together and then having those conversations
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  around the things that you are passionate about or curious about is what creates the energy So
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  those kinds of things
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  That's so very important.
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  Yeah.
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  And then to also, on the counter side, I would think think of what, I'm gonna use a trinidad
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  in term.
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  Think of the drain pipes, which is basically the pipes that take from you.
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  Right.
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  And Been aware of the drain pipes.
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  I love that.
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  Right.
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  And I think, you know, when you replenished, I often say, Sometimes you can flip that off a
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  little bit easier, but in this time, you really have to I I also talk about as, you know, you
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  know, fill up versus drain out.
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  And really, really right now, we're having a lot of things draining from us, like a lot you
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  know, worries with what's happening in the world, what's happening with our families.
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  I know you and I are not more in the stage where our kids are off to university, so we're
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  but for the people that are managing, you know, little ones at home, eight, nine year olds, and
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  keeping them at home.
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  That's a lot of give, give, give, right?
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  You
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  know?
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  And so and then, you know, I often share with people start to think, what is it?
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  What is what are the things that help you replenish?
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  And look at from a lens of what is drain you and try to think, what can I do?
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  Even if could do a little bit less of it so I can conserve some energy, versus trying to cut
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  everything off altogether, which sometimes it's not it's it's, you know, you might love to do
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  that.
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  In retrospect, we can't do that, but to really try to start to look at it from that lens,
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  which is, I think, what you're saying is, like, what are those energy suckers, and what are the
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  things that give you that extra bump, that allows you to say, okay, I have to be able to
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  get through this time with this difficult project or whatever.
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  Because, you know
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  And I think the the other aspect to that is you know, even if you're feeling stuck in your
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  career or at work, is a you know, and maybe you were on a trajectory before.
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  You know, you felt like you were on a certain trajectory and, and now, right now, you're you
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  don't feel that way.
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  Is give yourself the time to say, okay, right now is a collective pause.
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  I don't need to stay on the path.
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  Let myself just step off right now for a period of time so that I can re energize myself.
• 24:09
  I like that term.
• 24:10
  Collect that that feels kinda like, I I can kinda sign, like, go.
• 24:16
  Right?
• 24:16
  Because that means that I can just accept that this is what is Yeah.
• 24:21
  And like to your
• 24:22
  point It's nothing that any of us can control.
• 24:25
  Absolutely.
• 24:26
  And for some of our driven kind of, personalities, you're asking them to take a
• 24:32
  collective pause, and they're like, what?
• 24:34
  I don't do that.
• 24:35
  I'm
• 24:36
  kidding.
• 24:38
  I didn't know.
• 24:40
  I tried, and it's never worked, but really went in such a different time that it's really,
• 24:45
  like, to your point, you know, whether it's to volunteer or, you know, to spend more time in
• 24:52
  nature with your kids or those types of things.
• 24:55
  What what are the things that are gonna help you buffer through till you can get back to,
• 25:01
  okay, this is my plan.
• 25:02
  This is my 5, 10 year plan because I've mostly had to you know, kind of gently, you know, say,
• 25:07
  well, where I am in this quarter, I went to the last quarter of 2020, you know, what can I do
• 25:14
  to to ensure that I, get through the last quarter?
• 25:17
  And then, you know, hopefully as time goes, things get a little bit better for all us.
• 25:21
  Yeah.
• 25:22
  Leaders that are succeeding in getting, I would say, kudos for handling handling their
• 25:32
  leadership well within COVID, if you will, is, I've heard several of them saying, you know,
• 25:41
  what?
• 25:41
  When this first happened, we just communicated out there.
• 25:48
  Okay.
• 25:48
  Whatever our our objectives were at the beginning, That's not what they are right now.
• 25:55
  Mhmm.
• 25:56
  And they it's the communication of it.
• 25:59
  I think that's key.
• 26:01
  And that's what created the space and the openness for the people that work for them that
• 26:09
  are the loyal followers, if you will, to say, okay.
• 26:15
  It's okay to be, anxious feeling, you know, having all this ambiguity that's that's more
• 26:22
  than anything.
• 26:23
  And, you know, some people are calling it the great reset.
• 26:28
  Some people are calling it, you know, different things.
• 26:34
  Yeah, at this point in time, I wouldn't say we're at a new normal.
• 26:38
  Yeah.
• 26:38
  Whatever that's.
• 26:39
  Yeah.
• 26:40
  Yeah.
• 26:40
  I don't I personally, I don't like that.
• 26:42
  It makes me it's Yeah.
• 26:44
  It means like, would somehow we know what it's gonna look like and it it's your point.
• 26:48
  I still don't think we do.
• 26:49
  And I I've heard this over and over with, yeah, with most people that I coaching or leaders
• 26:54
  that are doing it well, I think it's almost like the re the there's a reorg that's in place
• 27:00
  and people are looking at their yearly goals and saying, you know what?
• 27:04
  To your point, let's look at, you know, quote and quote, and we can't even say post COVID
• 27:10
  yet.
• 27:11
  Let's just throw that out.
• 27:12
  Let's just get through, and the people that are leading most authentically from that empathetic
• 27:17
  space where people can see that transparency from them as a leader, you know, where, you
• 27:23
  know, the leader that look to put together right now actually is coming across as so
• 27:28
  inauthentic that people are finding it difficult to to have them lead them because if
• 27:33
  I'm your leader and I I'm and I'm not that I'm suggesting, and that's a hard concept for
• 27:40
  leaders, right, because why do we put people in positions of leadership so that they have the
• 27:44
  quality.
• 27:45
  So we're asking people that generally can do those things to really become more self aware
• 27:51
  to be able to say, yeah, I I, you know, I have been having a tough time keeping up the
• 27:56
  structure that I had, or I'm finding that I'm having some restless nights or I'm finding
• 28:02
  that, you know, you know, my kids are getting a little bit more on my nerves lately where I
• 28:06
  have to leave the house to be able to to get that quiet in my brain.
• 28:10
  You know, I think that's what I've been finding with leaders that have been doing it well.
• 28:14
  They're acknowledging.
• 28:15
  They're reaching.
• 28:16
  They're saying, you know, we're in it together.
• 28:20
  Yes, we still have to be able to do businesses, but there's no right or wrong way.
• 28:24
  I will communicate, communicate, communicate, even when there's not much to communicate.
• 28:30
  And so he's so good.
• 28:32
  Even if the communication shifts from directives to connecting.
• 28:39
  Yeah.
• 28:39
  And, you know, also that reality.
• 28:43
  Like, well, I'm struggling too.
• 28:44
  I'm having some sleepless nights or extra frustration with kids spouse, you know,
• 28:53
  whatever it is.
• 28:54
  Yeah.
• 28:54
  Well, and and with with me with me writing my new book, that's what I've been really focusing
• 28:59
  on is, leading from the heart.
• 29:01
  Right?
• 29:02
  Like, we know leaders have this all these phenomenal capacities and they're, you know, if
• 29:06
  we were to do, you know, the strength different kind of, you do with them.
• 29:11
  We know without a doubt that they function at a optimal level, but now it's about saying, okay,
• 29:18
  you have to go inside and make yourself more aware of how you function and where's your go
• 29:23
  to and maybe what are the different personalities on your teams And what are they
• 29:28
  needing differently from you as the leader?
• 29:31
  Because, yeah, you are a high functioner that maybe it are not feeling it as matches maybe,
• 29:38
  parts of your team, but what do those people that are maybe diametrically opposed in your
• 29:43
  personality kind of perspective, what do they need from you so you could effectively lead
• 29:47
  them.
• 29:48
  Mhmm.
• 29:50
  Absolutely.
• 29:51
  Yeah.
• 29:52
  Yep.
• 29:52
  So going inside.
• 29:54
  So when, you know, so there's people that still have dreams and they still have things that
• 30:01
  they want to achieve and maybe, like, you know, they're wanting to still have that perspective
• 30:08
  of, okay, I know I can't maybe make drastic, shifts right now with some of my miracles, but
• 30:15
  what are some of the things that they can do right now not to completely put their goals on
• 30:20
  on on the shelf, but to really still kind of work towards achieving certain things with but
• 30:26
  not having as high of an expectation based on the time.
• 30:29
  What kind of things can they do?
• 30:32
  I, I loved what you just said there about not having expectations based on a time frame.
• 30:41
  And you know, for probably the majority of people, especially achievers, people who have
• 30:50
  those goals and dreams, is the that timeline is kinda what keeps them centered and what keeps
• 30:59
  them going actually creates energy, which can be part of what is creating the anxiety right
• 31:05
  now.
• 31:07
  Yeah.
• 31:07
  Because we don't have a timeline on this silly thing called COVID.
• 31:13
  Yeah, that whole concept of post COVID is not really there yet.
• 31:18
  But anyway, I would say that possibly redefining what success means to you.
• 31:32
  So I think it was Tony, Tony Robbins, who said we we tend to overestimate what we can achieve
• 31:43
  in a year.
• 31:45
  And underestimate what we can achieve in, like, 5 or 10 years.
• 31:51
  I think it was him.
• 31:52
  Doesn't matter.
• 31:53
  It's the concept that matters.
• 31:55
  And, and I think if you can if if people who are in that high high achieve, if you can kind
• 32:06
  of create a compartment, like I have a dessert pocket.
• 32:11
  So I can have a really big meal and be really full.
• 32:16
  But I've got a dessert pocket.
• 32:24
  That sounds like fun.
• 32:25
  I know.
• 32:26
  I know.
• 32:26
  It's a great excuse, when it comes to your career, it's like, okay, I've got this 5 year 5
• 32:38
  year plan, or this is where I wanna be next year, whatever it is, is create yourself a
• 32:45
  metaphorical dessert pocket that has to do with the time.
• 32:50
  So you can still achieve your dream.
• 32:52
  You can still achieve what you want to.
• 32:55
  It just might not be within the exact time frame that you thought and that's okay because
• 33:03
  there's 8,000,000,000 other people that are not where they thought they were gonna be.
• 33:09
  So the redefinition, from that space would really allow you a bit more of, like, go back
• 33:16
  to that that pause.
• 33:19
  Right?
• 33:19
  Like, so it's almost like you're gonna lead from your heart and look at your business goals
• 33:25
  maybe and maybe be a bit gentler and kindler kinder to yourself.
• 33:29
  From a time frame.
• 33:30
  Yes.
• 33:31
  Yeah.
• 33:32
  Yeah.
• 33:32
  Versus it being, you know, like, you know, small, measurable, attainable, realistic time
• 33:36
  lines, just kind of say based on this time, you know, how is it that I could be gentler and
• 33:41
  kinder and maybe, just accept that we're all going through this together.
• 33:45
  You will get there to your point.
• 33:47
  You may get
• 33:49
  in 3 years
• 33:49
  or 5 years, but you're gonna get there and but to but to be, I also be gentle and kind and
• 33:55
  compassionate because if you know, was so good, you know, and us as coaches, we get that.
• 34:01
  So we're myself as a psychotherapist, But guess what?
• 34:04
  When we look at ourselves and I, you know, they'll peep my clients will often give this
• 34:08
  fantastic advice.
• 34:10
  And I will go, okay.
• 34:11
  Well, How come you can give that such great advice to other people?
• 34:14
  Can you do that for yourself?
• 34:15
  And I think sometimes the kindness, factor is something that people are were so much more
• 34:21
  tougher on ourselves, but to kind of cut ourselves a sl or a bit of slack, like, if it
• 34:25
  was that good friend or that colleague that you really liked and they came to you and they gave
• 34:30
  you that your dilemma, what would you tell them?
• 34:34
  Well, exactly.
• 34:34
  You know, if your goal was to be you know, get a director level position.
• 34:40
  You know, you're in frontline management right now, and your goal was to have a director level
• 34:44
  position by the end of 2020.
• 34:46
  Whatever your goal was.
• 34:48
  It's like, don't give up on, on the director.
• 34:51
  Don't give up on that.
• 34:54
  But just morph the part where it says by the end of 2020.
• 35:00
  Right.
• 35:00
  Okay.
• 35:01
  Make it a little bit more open ended and go, okay, to your point, the compassionate part is
• 35:09
  we've had to recalibrate on what we can control and what we can't.
• 35:15
  So if you don't achieve something by your current timelines, you know, what?
• 35:22
  There's a lot of things that have a huge amount of influence that we can't control right now.
• 35:29
  You know, being the COVID, we can't control how drastically people's revenue streams have been
• 35:36
  changed.
• 35:38
  Or their organizational structure in all of those things.
• 35:42
  Those are beyond, those are beyond our control.
• 35:46
  So given that recalibrating, we go, okay, being director by end of 2020, okay.
• 35:54
  I still want director for these reasons, and and that core hasn't changed.
• 36:00
  But you know what?
• 36:02
  Maybe it's not as achievable and realistic to to have that by end of 2020.
• 36:11
  Because of all these things that are not in my control.
• 36:15
  And that's how I'm being compassionate with myself.
• 36:18
  So before I let you go, I want you to speak to, like CEOs or senior management with all the
• 36:24
  things that we talked about.
• 36:26
  Mhmm.
• 36:27
  From that level, what what kind of things should they be thinking about?
• 36:30
  Let's say, and and we just talked about not giving a timeline, but I'm gonna give a
• 36:34
  timeline.
• 36:34
  You know, to say in the next couple 2 quarters, let's say, right, for senior leadership teams
• 36:40
  or CEOs, what kind of things should they been reflecting on to meet the needs of some of, you
• 36:47
  know, the concerns that we're talking about here.
• 36:49
  What should they be thinking about or implementing to be able to assist people in
• 36:55
  this stage?
• 36:56
  I think there's a place now more than ever because of COVID to have a space for the
• 37:05
  employees and or HR partners, if you will, when you think of talent development, to have the
• 37:17
  conversation or just a conversation, like a two way dialogue.
• 37:22
  So in the past, you would look at things like Okay.
• 37:28
  Every year, we're gonna have an engagement survey.
• 37:31
  We're gonna have a a a team meeting right, to talk about the engagement results, and then
• 37:39
  we're gonna develop an action plan, then we're gonna do it, and then we're gonna get better at
• 37:43
  engagement.
• 37:44
  Right.
• 37:46
  I think we gotta drop the action plan and go forward part and just let ourselves sit a
• 37:56
  little bit longer in the let's just have a dialogue.
• 38:00
  Okay.
• 38:01
  Let's be real.
• 38:01
  How are you how are you really feeling?
• 38:04
  Mhmm.
• 38:06
  You know, how are you really, hey.
• 38:07
  I know you have 2 young kids.
• 38:10
  How how are you making out?
• 38:12
  You know, do you need help?
• 38:13
  Is there anybody else on the team that can help?
• 38:17
  Right.
• 38:18
  So sitting where you are now being present.
• 38:23
  That's what I would say.
• 38:24
  Being present.
• 38:27
  Because we don't know the way, and it's unfolding daily, being present will really give
• 38:34
  you the space to to to hear in a different way versus, like you said, the,
• 38:39
  What's the action plan?
• 38:41
  Yeah.
• 38:41
  What's the what's the end point?
• 38:42
  Right?
• 38:43
  I was like, we're saying, okay.
• 38:45
  How would you throw off the action plan?
• 38:47
  And you're really kind of checking often enough and heart to heart, I would say.
• 38:53
  Really get to understand what your your your, you know, your part your HR partners need, what
• 38:58
  what they what are they having to what do they need in place to be able to cope effectively
• 39:03
  with the with their leaders that they're managing and then what does the frontline need
• 39:08
  in turn need from middle managers, senior management all the way up to the CEO.
• 39:14
  And the other piece of that puzzle might be be open to look at what's on people's plates and
• 39:21
  say, what are we willing to cross off the list for now, or take off the list.
• 39:28
  Right.
• 39:29
  K.
• 39:29
  So I have not had an experience with either my own work experience or any client whatsoever
• 39:37
  that has been able to stick to These are my top 3 priorities, and that's it.
• 39:44
  Mhmm.
• 39:44
  Everybody I know, honest to god, an individual level at team level, at an organization level,
• 39:51
  has added, you know, priority 45, 6, 7, 8.
• 39:57
  It's like I honestly genuinely believe we've gotta be able to look at our priority list and
• 40:03
  go, what's truly 1, 2, 3?
• 40:07
  Right.
• 40:08
  Right?
• 40:08
  Just reprioritize.
• 40:09
  Yeah.
• 40:10
  Park.
• 40:10
  And what what can what can we park?
• 40:12
  Again, not forever, but just what can we park?
• 40:17
  I think those things alone would create, you know, at a at a personal level if you do it for
• 40:22
  yourself, whether you're a leader professional looking for your next step.
• 40:27
  It doesn't matter, or whether you're a leader, leading other people.
• 40:33
  Absolutely.
• 40:34
  That that's amazing advice.
• 40:36
  Well, Melissa, this has been fantastic.
• 40:39
  And I think it's it's so just having this conversation, I'm sure, most people leaving, if
• 40:46
  anything that the two things that I'm doing is the pause.
• 40:51
  Mhmm.
• 40:52
  And reprioritize just three things.
• 40:56
  Those are the things that I'm taking away.
• 40:58
  Nope.
• 40:59
  I thought
• 40:59
  I thought you'd I thought you'd take away the dessert pocket and everything too.
• 41:03
  That too.
• 41:03
  That too.
• 41:06
  You know, I also say that you, Canadians and Americans have the dessert pocket, the the me,
• 41:12
  me, from Trinidad, I said, I have the savory pocket.
• 41:14
  Right?
• 41:15
  I mean, it does.
• 41:16
  There you go.
• 41:16
  I like that way.
• 41:17
  I don't have the speed.
• 41:18
  I have the savory, and I I also say, like, anything savory, I could there's a definitely,
• 41:23
  I have pocket, then maybe that's because I grew up in Trinidad, but, you know, I I always have
• 41:28
  space for more.
• 41:29
  So, Melissa, with what you're doing, I know, you and I have been so fortunate to spend time.
• 41:34
  We're both writing books.
• 41:36
  For people that might be interested in coaching or reaching out to you for some OD
• 41:41
  organizational development.
• 41:43
  We you Where
• 41:45
  can they reach me?
• 41:47
  Probably my best where you can reach me is my email, which is evolution_in_learning
• 41:57
  atoutlook.com.
• 42:00
  And on LinkedIn, I have I have the rest of my contact information there.
• 42:05
  So on LinkedIn on Melissa Jay Hartley.
• 42:09
  Awesome.
• 42:10
  H a r t l e y.
• 42:11
  And we will put all and the show notes.
• 42:14
  Thank you so much.
• 42:16
  And for everyone listening, if you're ever wanting to talk more about, leaving
• 42:22
  authentically or having that connection as a leader to your teams, especially in this time.
• 42:27
  You can reach me at, Roxanne.
• 42:32
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive health
• 42:38
  change.
• 42:39
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 42:46
  dirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 42:49
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.