Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / ACCUSED REAL LIFE MEAN GIRLS ALLEGEDLY BULLY HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY GIRL DEAD: Report

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ACCUSED REAL LIFE MEAN GIRLS ALLEGEDLY BULLY HIGH SCHOOL HOCKEY GIRL DEAD: Report · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece Sweet sixteen. I don't want
0:17
Speaker 1: the twins to grow up and move away, but I
0:20
Speaker 1: look forward to sweet sixteen or sixteenth birthday for them.
0:25
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, they are turning fifteen and a
0:31
Speaker 1: certain name that keeps going through my head over and
0:34
Speaker 1: over and over. McKenna Brown, gorgeous, so smart, sixteen and
0:45
Speaker 1: a hockey star in Florida. She committed suicide. But I
0:51
Speaker 1: want to know why. Is it true that mean girls,
1:00
Speaker 1: real life mean girls. You've all seen the movie Real
1:06
Speaker 1: Life Mean Girls drove her to suicide? Is this true?
1:14
Speaker 1: And if so, what if anything will being done about it?
1:20
Speaker 1: I Meanancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for
1:23
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation, and Sirius XM
1:26
Speaker 1: one eleven, first of all, take a listen to this.
1:30
Speaker 1: I went upstairs the next morning and opened the door
1:34
Speaker 1: and I she was on the ground, face down, and
1:37
Speaker 1: I thought she was sleeping. She could sleep anywhere, She
1:40
Speaker 1: truly could sleep anywhere, and so I didn't realize initially
1:44
Speaker 1: what I was looking at. And I went over to
1:47
Speaker 1: her and went to turn her over, and she was
1:51
Speaker 1: cold and stiff, and I knew that she was gone.
1:55
Speaker 1: On all the seventh days before the first day of school,
1:58
Speaker 1: she took her own life. It's in total hell, and
2:02
Speaker 1: I know she's all around us still, but she's not
2:05
Speaker 1: here physically and that hurts. More than a thousand people
2:08
Speaker 1: showed up to pay their respects at her memorial service,
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Speaker 1: including all of Palm Herbert Fire Rescue, where her dad
2:14
Speaker 1: is a lieutenant. This brave, brave mother speaking Cheryl. This
2:19
Speaker 1: is McKenna's mother speaking to our friend doctor Phil and
2:23
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox thirteen. Why did this have to happen?
2:28
Speaker 1: With me and All Star panel to make sense of
2:30
Speaker 1: what we know right now? But first I want to
2:32
Speaker 1: introduce to you two very special guests. And I do
2:36
Speaker 1: not know how they are putting one foot in front
2:40
Speaker 1: of the other, but I think it's because they want
2:45
Speaker 1: to help other teams, like their daughter McKenna with me,
2:50
Speaker 1: Cheryl and Hunter Brown, McKenna's mom and dad. To the Browns,
2:55
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Thank you, Nancy, Thank
2:58
Speaker 1: you for having us. I have so many questions for you.
3:03
Speaker 1: I want to understand what happened and what if anything,
3:09
Speaker 1: can be done to stop this, To stop A gorgeous, talented,
3:15
Speaker 1: brilliant teen girl like your daughter from taking her life
3:21
Speaker 1: and what drove her to that? And is it true
3:25
Speaker 1: that three, essentially three mean girls drove her to do this.
3:30
Speaker 1: It was a group of four girls, four. I'm glad
3:32
Speaker 1: to know that. Yeah, miss Brown, before you found McKenna,
3:39
Speaker 1: you thought asleep. Did you know that there was trouble brewing?
3:44
Speaker 1: Not to the extent that it was brewing. I knew,
3:47
Speaker 1: you know, earlier that week. You know, in less than
3:50
Speaker 1: four days, there have been some some boy drama some
3:54
Speaker 1: of McKenna's friends that accused her of breaking the girl
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Speaker 1: code after she had talked to one of the boys
4:00
Speaker 1: is an ex boyfriend from two years earlier. And you know,
4:04
Speaker 1: there was some negative correspondence ranging from you know, tex
4:09
Speaker 1: phone calls that led up to that weekend breaking the
4:14
Speaker 1: girl code. Guys, take a listen. As it's explained to
4:20
Speaker 1: doctor Pheel, Tuesday evening, she was with girlfriends out on
4:23
Speaker 1: the beach. One of her friends his her ex boyfriend,
4:29
Speaker 1: was on the beach there with her. She had known
4:31
Speaker 1: him for a couple of years as well. They had
4:32
Speaker 1: dated two years earlier, and they started talking and flirting
4:36
Speaker 1: with each other. McKenna wanted to make sure that her
4:39
Speaker 1: friend was okayed and wanted to be awkward, had asked
4:43
Speaker 1: her if she would be okay with them talking Wednesday
4:46
Speaker 1: evening when a group of them went to the Causeway
4:49
Speaker 1: and she continued hanging out with him, and you know
4:54
Speaker 1: it obviously wasn't okay with this person hanging out with
4:58
Speaker 1: somebody's ex boyfriend from two years ago. On one night
5:03
Speaker 1: in a group listen to more, she went and spent
5:06
Speaker 1: the night with a couple of the girlfriends that evening
5:10
Speaker 1: and they dropped her off at our house on Thursday.
5:14
Speaker 1: Later on that evening, she started getting a barrage of
5:17
Speaker 1: texts and phone calls from the girl with the ex boyfriend.
5:23
Speaker 1: She tried to kind of distance herself and not respond.
5:27
Speaker 1: Friday evening, she sent a text to this person saying that,
5:32
Speaker 1: you know, if I crossed the line, I'm sorry. She
5:35
Speaker 1: she sent that for her just so that she'd feel better,
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Speaker 1: you know, kind of park it there. It didn't matter
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Speaker 1: how she responded, but she was, you know, owning it
5:43
Speaker 1: if she crossed the line. But then suddenly McKenna knew
5:47
Speaker 1: things had absolutely gone sidewise. Listen. The next day, we
5:54
Speaker 1: spent the day together, you know, talking through it. We
5:56
Speaker 1: were very close. She was my best friend. And we
6:02
Speaker 1: went to dinner and she looked down at her phone.
6:04
Speaker 1: She'd been ignoring her phone most of the day, just
6:07
Speaker 1: trying to put some distance between it, and she looked
6:10
Speaker 1: at her phone in the snap map, she looked down
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Speaker 1: and she saw the four friends that had been sending
6:16
Speaker 1: her texts and phone calls and you know snaps. They
6:21
Speaker 1: were all together at her friend's house, you know, just
6:24
Speaker 1: a short ways from our house, and they'd come from
6:26
Speaker 1: fair distance all to be together. Okay, if you don't
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Speaker 1: know what snap is, snapchat or snap map, you're about too.
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Speaker 1: How hurtful do you think it was? To mckinna, a
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Speaker 1: teen girl which she luis and sees all of her
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Speaker 1: friends are right down the street together, but nobody invited
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Speaker 1: her listen. So she saw on the snap map that
6:48
Speaker 1: they were all together, and her face just kind of
6:50
Speaker 1: went white, like I feel like that was a turning
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Speaker 1: point for her. She had been getting all these you know,
6:56
Speaker 1: correspondences and trying to ignore them. She saw that and
7:00
Speaker 1: she just, you know, we went home that evening, we
7:03
Speaker 1: watched a movie together again, just talking, and she decided that,
7:10
Speaker 1: you know, we were going to church the next morning,
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Speaker 1: she said she was going to go upstairs and wash
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Speaker 1: her hair and clean up her room and she might
7:18
Speaker 1: be back down. She didn't come back down, and I
7:20
Speaker 1: didn't think anything of it, because you know, it's here.
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Speaker 1: The next morning for church, you were hearing McKenna's mother
7:25
Speaker 1: speaking to her friend, doctor Phiel, and miss Brown, Cheryl
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Speaker 1: Brown and mckinna's dad Hunt or both with us. Now,
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Speaker 1: Miss Brown, I feel like I'm living it through it
7:36
Speaker 1: because it sounds just like my daughter Lucy. Before McKenna
7:41
Speaker 1: told you about Snap, did you even know what it was?
7:44
Speaker 1: I had an idea and I, you know, the whole
7:46
Speaker 1: concept of disappearing messages always kind of haunted me because
7:51
Speaker 1: there's no way to stay on top of it or
7:53
Speaker 1: monitor it. Really, I think parents are in the dark
7:56
Speaker 1: when it comes to a lot of social media that
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Speaker 1: my daughter showed me, like the Snap map and you
8:01
Speaker 1: know where you can actually see friends, you know, situated geographers,
8:05
Speaker 1: queen on the map, you know, and it works all
8:07
Speaker 1: around the world. I was driving the twins to my
8:11
Speaker 1: hometown of Macon, Georgia, and my son was on Snap
8:16
Speaker 1: and he said, guess where I forgot who Alexander is?
8:19
Speaker 1: I'm like where I thought, and they might say New
8:22
Speaker 1: York or Florida. Said he's a Switzerland. What how do
8:26
Speaker 1: you know that? And he goes, look, it's on my
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Speaker 1: snap map. You can find out where if they're on
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Speaker 1: Snap and they share their location, you can see where
8:36
Speaker 1: all your friends are. And I'm just thinking about that
8:38
Speaker 1: moment when mckinna looked, and so all of her girlfriends
8:42
Speaker 1: all right down the street, but nobody invited her. I
8:45
Speaker 1: don't even think it was so much the fact that
8:46
Speaker 1: she wasn't with them. It was the fact that, you know,
8:49
Speaker 1: two of them had been together, the other two were separate,
8:52
Speaker 1: and there'd been a blurry of text back and forth
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Speaker 1: between her and them individually, and that and now that
8:57
Speaker 1: you know, so it had been kind of going sideways
9:00
Speaker 1: for a few days, and then now they were all together,
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Speaker 1: you know, five traffic lights from our house as a group.
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Speaker 1: And I think that was more what said in on
9:08
Speaker 1: her than just the fact that she'd been left out,
9:10
Speaker 1: because she'd known by this point in time, you know,
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Speaker 1: she was on the outs with the group. They'd made
9:15
Speaker 1: that fairly clear. She'd been trying to, you know, trying
9:18
Speaker 1: for a approachment. They'd reached out individually. You know, they'd
9:23
Speaker 1: had conversations that the detective sharing some of them with
9:26
Speaker 1: me where you know, they accused her of this. He said, Okay,
9:29
Speaker 1: yes I did that. You know, I probably shouldn't have
9:32
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. So, you know, I don't think
9:35
Speaker 1: she expected to be there. I think it was more
9:36
Speaker 1: of the fact that they were all together now, so
9:39
Speaker 1: it had kind of all come full circle back to
9:42
Speaker 1: where now they were all together hanging up on her
9:46
Speaker 1: exactly like a cabal ganging upon her. And I mean,
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Speaker 1: let me understand this, miss Brown, Cheryl Brown. The whole
9:53
Speaker 1: thing started when the girls were together at the Causeway.
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Speaker 1: They're in Florida, and an ex boyfriend two years x
10:03
Speaker 1: two years out of a relationship with what then thirteen
10:08
Speaker 1: year old girl and who starts flirting with McKenna and
10:12
Speaker 1: she flirts back like any red blooded American girl would.
10:16
Speaker 1: Of course, she flirted back, right, But she asked the
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Speaker 1: friend first. Hey said, okay, if we're talking, and the
10:23
Speaker 1: friend goes, yes, we're way over. That's what started this
10:26
Speaker 1: whole thing. She was also there with her current boyfriend
10:30
Speaker 1: on the beach, this friend, and that is what started
10:33
Speaker 1: this whole thing. Yeah, there's two nights. There's Tuesday night
10:36
Speaker 1: when they McKenna and the boyfriend first kind of flirted
10:39
Speaker 1: when they were all at Saint Pete Beach, McKenna and
10:41
Speaker 1: three of the group of four, and then on Wednesday,
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Speaker 1: McKenna and two of the group of four wound up
10:47
Speaker 1: at the Causeway. So there's two different beaches on two
10:49
Speaker 1: different nights. And then the one girl with the X
10:52
Speaker 1: was not there on Wednesday nights, but the boyfriend was,
10:55
Speaker 1: and McKenna and the boyfriend again you know, had interaction
10:59
Speaker 1: and showed it would interest in each other. And then
11:01
Speaker 1: obviously the two girls that were there relaid that back
11:05
Speaker 1: to the age and then things started the spiral from there.
11:23
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace, Okay, it's amazing to me
11:29
Speaker 1: that these ming girls, as they have been euphemistically called,
11:34
Speaker 1: ganging up and bullying McKenna to the point where she
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Speaker 1: takes her own life. It's amazing to me that, according
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Speaker 1: to reports, they have shown no remorse whatsoever. Take a
11:48
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Fox thirteen. She says she
11:51
Speaker 1: was baffled when she saw the teammate who sent the
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Speaker 1: text at McKenna's funeral. Do you feel like no, I don't,
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Speaker 1: because she had mentioned to one of her friends she
12:01
Speaker 1: got what she had deserved. It's all read. I was enraged.
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Speaker 1: For now, Brown says she's putting her faith in the
12:09
Speaker 1: ongoing investigations, hopeful the teens realize the power behind their words.
12:15
Speaker 1: I just wish she could have seen through it. The
12:17
Speaker 1: suspensions would have still happened, and repercussions would have been there,
12:21
Speaker 1: and she'd still be here. Okay, Cheryl and Hunter Brown,
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Speaker 1: please jump in whenever you have anything to add because
12:33
Speaker 1: us parents out here like you, we want to do
12:37
Speaker 1: everything we can to protect our children, even from themselves.
12:44
Speaker 1: If one parent hears this and can help their teen
12:49
Speaker 1: girl or boy, your words today will have made all
12:55
Speaker 1: the difference, all the difference in the world. Also one
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Speaker 1: eight two seven three talk one eight hundred two seven
13:03
Speaker 1: three eight two five five. That is the National Toll
13:06
Speaker 1: Free Suicide Prevention Line. I'm just having a hard time
13:11
Speaker 1: taking it all into doctor Jorry Crawls and psychologists joining
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Speaker 1: us Saint Leo University and author doctor Jory You know
13:20
Speaker 1: it hurts adults when they feel rejected by family members
13:26
Speaker 1: or friends. I remember having an argument with my brother
13:30
Speaker 1: and do you know it upset me. For the next
13:34
Speaker 1: two years. I wouldn't say anything because I didn't want
13:38
Speaker 1: to start back up. But I love him and you know,
13:43
Speaker 1: and I'm an adult. So when teen girls or boys
13:48
Speaker 1: have an argument and their peers gang up on them,
13:52
Speaker 1: of course they're upset. And with social media, that energizes.
13:57
Speaker 1: And it's such a powerful platform because there's anonymity to it,
14:03
Speaker 1: yet it goes out and it reaches you know, other people,
14:09
Speaker 1: and trying to deal with that as a teenager. Doctor
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Speaker 1: Jorry guys, I'm calling him doctor Jory's doctor Jorry Cross,
14:16
Speaker 1: and he's a renowned psychologist. The other day, my little girl,
14:19
Speaker 1: Lucy came in to the din. I was sitting there
14:23
Speaker 1: working and she had tears in her eyes. I said, honey,
14:26
Speaker 1: what is it? She said, Mom, did you see what
14:28
Speaker 1: they said about you? I'm like, who said what? No,
14:31
Speaker 1: I didn't see it. She goes, look, she couldn't even
14:33
Speaker 1: say the words, and she showed me it's somebody had
14:37
Speaker 1: written on a star or Twitter or something, probably Twitter
14:40
Speaker 1: the hate fest, but it said you're ugly? Why are
14:44
Speaker 1: you on TV? And I laughed at me, Yes, it
14:49
Speaker 1: wasn't me. But my daughter cried and it wasn't even
14:54
Speaker 1: about her, and you know, finally the tears spilled over.
14:58
Speaker 1: She was so upset that would hurt me. I can
15:00
Speaker 1: only imagine doctor Jerry Cross and what words like that
15:05
Speaker 1: do too a little girl, She's still a little girl
15:08
Speaker 1: at sixteen. You see how powerful that is because of
15:12
Speaker 1: that environment. I mean it just you know, the environment
15:15
Speaker 1: of the social media. It just really energizes that type
15:19
Speaker 1: of damage and information. And it's twenty four seven. Yes,
15:23
Speaker 1: I think I ended up writing back something like, oh,
15:25
Speaker 1: I know, aren't I the lucky is personally or something
15:28
Speaker 1: like that. But that's after years of taking heat in
15:33
Speaker 1: the courtroom and being called all kinds of things by
15:36
Speaker 1: murderers and rapists and defendants and their cadre of lawyers.
15:40
Speaker 1: Unlike a sixteen year old girl, everybody jump in when
15:47
Speaker 1: you have a thought. This is way I'm just a JD.
15:50
Speaker 1: This is way beyond anything I understand. Is how Hunter
15:53
Speaker 1: Brown jumping in? Yeah it is. I just wanted to
15:56
Speaker 1: get a couple things out here. I didn't realize till
15:58
Speaker 1: this morning that you guys hadn't received the text or
16:00
Speaker 1: anything like that. I asked Cheryl just in a minute
16:03
Speaker 1: of a half hour before we came. First thing I'd
16:05
Speaker 1: like to say is just in the in the weeks
16:08
Speaker 1: after mccanna passed, actually the National Suicide and Depression Hotline
16:12
Speaker 1: has changed to a nine eight eight number of works
16:14
Speaker 1: like nine one one. Now you need to do is
16:16
Speaker 1: dial nine eight eight from any phone and it hooks
16:19
Speaker 1: you right up. Okay, let me say that very clearly.
16:22
Speaker 1: Not if you dial nine eight eight the way you
16:26
Speaker 1: would dial nine one one, you're immediately hooked into the
16:30
Speaker 1: suicide hot line. Yes, that's the suicide in crisis, my lifeline.
16:33
Speaker 1: You know what. I would like to take this opportunity
16:36
Speaker 1: to reprimand everybody here in the studio, but I'm taking
16:38
Speaker 1: full responsibility for that. I didn't know that, and that
16:42
Speaker 1: is a good thing to know. It happened right after
16:45
Speaker 1: me kind of past because you know, I've got a theory,
16:47
Speaker 1: and everybody jump in if you agree or disagree. But
16:50
Speaker 1: doctor Joy, I remember there were times after my fiance's
16:56
Speaker 1: murder that I did not want to even live. Just thought,
17:00
Speaker 1: why don't I just kill myself and be done with
17:03
Speaker 1: it and I can be with him. But I have
17:05
Speaker 1: found I learned several things the hard way that if
17:09
Speaker 1: you can get through that crisis moment. The next day
17:13
Speaker 1: you don't feel that way. You may feel that way again,
17:18
Speaker 1: but if you can get through that crisis, that interval
17:21
Speaker 1: of hours where you just don't want to live anymore,
17:26
Speaker 1: how do you get past that? And I'm sure there's
17:29
Speaker 1: got to be a name for that, doctor Jorry Crossing. Yea.
17:31
Speaker 1: That's part of the grieving process. And really it's normal, okay,
17:37
Speaker 1: and it needs to be integrated in, you know, just
17:42
Speaker 1: like what you did. You saw the very next day,
17:44
Speaker 1: you know, and just like the parents would recognize that
17:48
Speaker 1: she's taken it day by day and that's the way
17:51
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to do it, and it's going to
17:54
Speaker 1: be for the rest of your life. You have to
17:56
Speaker 1: recognize that too. I got a question for you, Earl
18:00
Speaker 1: and Hunter. These are McKenna's mom and dad with us.
18:05
Speaker 1: What were the girls saying to her on snap? So
18:10
Speaker 1: that was what I was going to get into after
18:12
Speaker 1: the nine to eight eight point, I just wanted to
18:14
Speaker 1: point out, like, the social media is a big aspect
18:16
Speaker 1: of this, the social media, and they used phone, Twitter,
18:21
Speaker 1: phone snatchet, Instagram and TikTok I believe as well. And
18:26
Speaker 1: you were canceling her, so canceling. You know, that was
18:29
Speaker 1: what happened over social media, was they were going to
18:31
Speaker 1: cancel McKenna. You know, they pulled two friends over the
18:34
Speaker 1: phone that she'll have no friends or you know, their
18:37
Speaker 1: goal was to make sure she didn't have a single
18:39
Speaker 1: friend left. So that played a big part in all
18:42
Speaker 1: of this. But I think you know, McKenna was a goalie,
18:45
Speaker 1: she was a warrior. She was pretty tough and pretty feisty.
18:49
Speaker 1: I think she could have persevered and survived through that.
18:52
Speaker 1: I think what really pushed her over the edge and
18:54
Speaker 1: made you know, unbeknownst to us her freshman year basically team,
19:00
Speaker 1: she had been sexually assaulted. And she kept that a
19:03
Speaker 1: secret for three years. And then our understanding is on
19:07
Speaker 1: Wednesday night at the Causeway, she had revealed to one
19:11
Speaker 1: of one or both. I'm not one hundred percent certain
19:14
Speaker 1: of the friends that were there that she had been
19:16
Speaker 1: sexually assaulted. You know, I've made some mistakes, as the
19:20
Speaker 1: doctors know. You know, that weighs heavily on a fourteen
19:23
Speaker 1: year old school high school girl, and you know, so
19:26
Speaker 1: she had been carrying that burden secretly tours with by
19:29
Speaker 1: herself and struggling through it and all that. In my
19:33
Speaker 1: line of work, we see them all the time, and people, never, adults,
19:36
Speaker 1: never recover from that. And you know, so that weighed
19:39
Speaker 1: heavily on her mentally, and she shared that, she said,
19:42
Speaker 1: don't let this happen to you, you know, don't make
19:44
Speaker 1: the mistakes I've made. Don't let this this will ruin
19:47
Speaker 1: your life kind of thing. And then they betrayed that,
19:50
Speaker 1: gave that back to the girl whose brother had actually
19:53
Speaker 1: been the one that had sexually assaulted her, and then
19:56
Speaker 1: they shared that via screen captures of texts, a half
20:00
Speaker 1: dozen screen captures, five or six of them from one
20:04
Speaker 1: of the girls and one from McKenna, where along with
20:07
Speaker 1: you know, a list of boys and all this stuff,
20:10
Speaker 1: and they revealed back to teammates and friends. And I
20:13
Speaker 1: think that and I think that's what pushed McKenna over
20:17
Speaker 1: the edge, was being this humiliation and the deep secret
20:21
Speaker 1: that she had carried forever and then had betrayed back
20:24
Speaker 1: to her in a matter of days being shared with
20:27
Speaker 1: her teammates and friends. I'm pretty sure that's what probably
20:30
Speaker 1: ultimately drove her to her end. It's amazing to me
20:34
Speaker 1: as well, Cheryl, that you believe these girls have no
20:40
Speaker 1: remorse and actually sits she deserved what she got, that
20:44
Speaker 1: she deserved to die. That information is from friends that
20:48
Speaker 1: came forward after and helped us kind of piece together
20:50
Speaker 1: what had happened, what it actually happens, you know, days
20:53
Speaker 1: moments leading up to we've we've heard nothing. We've heard,
20:59
Speaker 1: you know, No, I'm sorries no, I mean, in fact,
21:04
Speaker 1: it's kind of the opposite. Their families have kind of
21:07
Speaker 1: they've appeeled. There's there's suspensions from the high school hockey league.
21:11
Speaker 1: Three of the girls in mc kanna played in the
21:13
Speaker 1: high school hockey league. All four of the girls in
21:15
Speaker 1: mccanna played on a travel organization. They've been suspended from
21:18
Speaker 1: the high school Hockey League sending appeals and the conclusion
21:21
Speaker 1: of the USA Hockey investigation, and they've all field their suspensions.
21:28
Speaker 1: You know, they've some of their families have gone. I'm
21:30
Speaker 1: kind of a scorched earth policy turning it back on McKenna.
21:33
Speaker 1: She broke the girl boone. How could she have done
21:35
Speaker 1: what she did? You know, their daughters, like I said,
21:42
Speaker 1: they don't see they don't see themselves as having done
21:44
Speaker 1: anything wrong. They're not only no repercussions because there's no
21:47
Speaker 1: law to support that. But you know they don't think
21:50
Speaker 1: they've done any wrong either. Yes, so, because because there's
21:53
Speaker 1: no law, they haven't broken a law, they've done nothing
21:55
Speaker 1: wrong in their eyes. To Nicole Parton, joining US Crime
21:58
Speaker 1: online dot Com invest to get every reporter, is it,
22:02
Speaker 1: first of all, give me your rendition of what we
22:04
Speaker 1: know right now, Nicole Partner, And you're a mother of
22:07
Speaker 1: how many five? I'm a mother of five, yes, ma'am. Yes,
22:10
Speaker 1: I thought that number is a stuck in my head.
22:13
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me that the only repercussion so far
22:17
Speaker 1: from these girls who bullied reportedly bullied McKenna to her death.
22:25
Speaker 1: The only thing that's happened is that they were suspended
22:28
Speaker 1: from the Florida High School Hockey League. Is that all?
22:32
Speaker 1: That's it? And they can appeal that, so it's very
22:34
Speaker 1: possible that they could be back on the hockey league.
22:38
Speaker 1: They're all, as far as I'm aware, they're all in
22:41
Speaker 1: appeals now trying to get back on the hockey league.
22:44
Speaker 1: And that's all that's happened. And we've got to remember.
22:47
Speaker 1: Stats show us that forty percent of all teenagers in
22:52
Speaker 1: America between the ages of twelve and seventeen have experienced
22:57
Speaker 1: some type of severe cyber bullying. So this is an epic,
23:03
Speaker 1: epic problem that we have in our nation, and there
23:06
Speaker 1: has got to be stiffer punishment for these type of
23:09
Speaker 1: things that are happening. As a parent, this is my
23:12
Speaker 1: worst nightmare. My children have been bullied because we're an
23:16
Speaker 1: interracial family. And to these parents, Cherylyn Hunter, my heart
23:21
Speaker 1: breaks for you. I cannot even pretend to imagine what
23:25
Speaker 1: you're feeling. There's got to be stiffer punishment. We have
23:29
Speaker 1: to be run into this type of bullying. With me
23:31
Speaker 1: is Titania Jordan. She is a chief parent officer with
23:36
Speaker 1: BARK and the author of Parenting in a Tech World,
23:40
Speaker 1: and you can find her at Bark dot us on
23:43
Speaker 1: Twitter at Titania Jordan. And I've got to tell you
23:47
Speaker 1: I have BARK and it monitors the twins, cell phones
23:52
Speaker 1: and devices, and it's extremely sensitive to words that would
23:56
Speaker 1: induce that would refer to harm, suicide, cyber bullying. And
24:03
Speaker 1: here's an example that I give to explain how sensitive
24:06
Speaker 1: BARK is. My son was goalie at his middle school team,
24:13
Speaker 1: and he was so proud that one time he dove
24:16
Speaker 1: through the net to stop a goal of the opposing
24:19
Speaker 1: side and his arm was covered in bruises from diving
24:23
Speaker 1: through the net. Well, he was so proud he took
24:25
Speaker 1: a picture of it and sent it to his friends
24:28
Speaker 1: and captain it. They didn't get the goal, you know
24:33
Speaker 1: when the bruise was proof. Well, I got that immediately
24:36
Speaker 1: and nearly did a backflip until I went and got
24:39
Speaker 1: his phone. I thought, how could John David be hurting himself?
24:42
Speaker 1: Until I saw his phone and he was really just
24:45
Speaker 1: showing off a trophy, a soccer trophy. That's how sensitive
24:50
Speaker 1: these net nannies are. Okay, titarn you go ahead. Yes,
24:54
Speaker 1: So you mentioned a forty percent rate of children twelve
24:58
Speaker 1: to seventeen experience severe cyber bulling, and in fact, in
25:02
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, for our case study of billions of
25:06
Speaker 1: data points, we showed that seventy three percent of tweens
25:10
Speaker 1: that's eight to twelve year olds and eighty five percent
25:12
Speaker 1: of teens experienced bulling either as a bully, victim or witness.
25:17
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, we have observed a thirteen percent uptick in
25:21
Speaker 1: online bulling events since children return to school this school
25:25
Speaker 1: there and as a mom of a thirteen year old
25:27
Speaker 1: who has received BARK alerts for children bullying him in
25:32
Speaker 1: his current eighth grade situation. I just my heart goes
25:37
Speaker 1: out to you, and they're absolutely do need to be
25:40
Speaker 1: more stringent laws that hold children accountable? Yeah, go ahead,
25:46
Speaker 1: Hunter Brown. I was considered just there needs to be
25:49
Speaker 1: consequences that show and the turk kids from from bullying.
25:52
Speaker 1: If that's you know, if you think that the moral
25:55
Speaker 1: compass is enough, But I mean, there needs to be consequences.
25:59
Speaker 1: Straight out to David Bianci joining us as Centulli family lawyer.
26:03
Speaker 1: He is America's leading hazing lawyer out of Miami at
26:09
Speaker 1: st fblaw dot com. Jump in, David. Yeah, so, Nancy,
26:14
Speaker 1: I just would make a two quick comments everything. These
26:19
Speaker 1: are such horrific cases. I feel horrible for this family
26:23
Speaker 1: and everyone else with the whole bullying thing. It is
26:28
Speaker 1: not unlike hazing in college. It's very similar and the
26:33
Speaker 1: consequences are similar because in college hazing cases, young males
26:39
Speaker 1: usually get seriously injured or they die because they're being
26:43
Speaker 1: essentially bullied or hazed. And to bring us back to
26:48
Speaker 1: Florida where this happened, there are laws in Florida regarding bullying.
26:53
Speaker 1: There is one law called the Jeffrey Johnston Stand Up
26:56
Speaker 1: for All Students Act, which is a byproduct of a
27:01
Speaker 1: horrific middle school suicide that happened in Cape Coral to
27:07
Speaker 1: an honors student because he was bullied, and a new
27:10
Speaker 1: law got passed in Florida that says bullying in schools
27:14
Speaker 1: is illegal and the schools have to do a whole
27:17
Speaker 1: bunch of things to stop it. But it doesn't make
27:20
Speaker 1: it criminal. It puts the obligation on the schools to
27:23
Speaker 1: rein it. In in addition to that, we have a
27:27
Speaker 1: criminal statute in Florida that says stalking is a crime,
27:31
Speaker 1: including cyberstalking, and a lot of these bullying things that
27:36
Speaker 1: happen with teens can be categorized as cyberstalking under Florida's
27:42
Speaker 1: criminal law. And the third prong of what the legal
27:46
Speaker 1: system can do is the civil court system, because in Florida,
27:51
Speaker 1: there's a Florida Supreme Court case, so not that long ago,
27:56
Speaker 1: that says that parents can be liable under certain circle
28:00
Speaker 1: substances if they failed to exercise reasonable care when they
28:05
Speaker 1: knew that one of their kids was going to inflict
28:10
Speaker 1: injury or possibly inflict injury on another student. So that's
28:15
Speaker 1: a way to rein it in under the civil law
28:17
Speaker 1: in Florida. I'm very curious in this case whether charges
28:22
Speaker 1: are being considered. What about it, Cheryl Brown, I know
28:25
Speaker 1: that they're not. No one is even considering charges. No,
28:29
Speaker 1: So I met with the detective. In fact, I am
28:33
Speaker 1: expecting to pick up the investigative you know the file.
28:38
Speaker 1: I actually thought I would have it last Wednesday, and
28:40
Speaker 1: they're about to close the case. He's just waiting on
28:43
Speaker 1: his sergeant. Basically, as he said, as the attorney said,
28:49
Speaker 1: you know, bullying is illegal, but all that law does
28:51
Speaker 1: is it ties the hand of the school and it
28:53
Speaker 1: requires the school to take certain action and provides a
28:56
Speaker 1: bully child with the opportunity to change schools or to
28:58
Speaker 1: get a scholarship to the tax money back to go
29:01
Speaker 1: to a private school. Cyber bully. Cyber stocking can be
29:06
Speaker 1: used to prove a half period of stocking, which can
29:09
Speaker 1: then be charged as stocking. Like he said, but if
29:12
Speaker 1: you look at the Rebecca Sedgwate case that happened a
29:15
Speaker 1: decade ago, Sheriff Brady Judge, who you know, never looked
29:19
Speaker 1: away from a camera, and you know Buffs the camera
29:22
Speaker 1: loves the Limelight loves to be very aggressive when he
29:24
Speaker 1: brings charges. He charged two girls in that case. In
29:27
Speaker 1: that case, a twelve year old girl, a month before
29:30
Speaker 1: her birthday, not unlike McKenna, climbed the three story water
29:34
Speaker 1: abandoned water tower and jumped to her death because she'd
29:37
Speaker 1: been you know, hazed online, bullied for a prolonged period
29:41
Speaker 1: of time. She'd been taken out of school, she'd been homeschool,
29:45
Speaker 1: she'd changed schools. These girls continued to stock her. They
29:48
Speaker 1: recruited other girls to come in and to bully her.
29:52
Speaker 1: They had recruited other girls to join in. And Sheriff
29:56
Speaker 1: Brady Judd brought charges against those two girls, and even
29:59
Speaker 1: ultimately he was forced to drop those charges. No prosecution occurred.
30:04
Speaker 1: The Rebecca's Law gain traction in Tallahassee for a year
30:08
Speaker 1: or two, they thought it was going to pass and
30:11
Speaker 1: all that it never got passed. It never became law.
30:15
Speaker 1: The laws in Florida have not changed, and these cases
30:18
Speaker 1: are very difficult to bring charges and to make them
30:21
Speaker 1: stick and to prosecute, and even ultimately if they were
30:25
Speaker 1: able to bring charges or whatever and prosecute and see
30:28
Speaker 1: them to their to their conclusion, it is like a
30:31
Speaker 1: thousand dollars fine and up to a year in jail.
30:35
Speaker 1: And he said, the detective said, ultimately, you know, it
30:37
Speaker 1: would be like, you know, counseling kind of thing or
30:42
Speaker 1: behavior modification in the end, and the sheriff's department just
30:47
Speaker 1: was the sheriff's office just wasn't willing to you know,
30:51
Speaker 1: they didn't see it as a winnable case. Two, Cheryl Brown,
30:54
Speaker 1: I'm flummixed at your theory that these girls, no remorse whatsoever,
31:03
Speaker 1: came to the funeral, your daughter's funeral and would not
31:07
Speaker 1: even speak to you. They didn't. The parents came up
31:10
Speaker 1: and you know, with white faces like they you know,
31:14
Speaker 1: they looked guilty, They looked like they knew, and they
31:17
Speaker 1: obviously knew more than we did at that point, because
31:19
Speaker 1: it wasn't until after the funeral that mckenneth's friends other
31:22
Speaker 1: teammates came forward with the screenshots and, as I said,
31:27
Speaker 1: helped us piece together what we're on the text. What
31:30
Speaker 1: were they saying to calling her names? They had listed, um,
31:34
Speaker 1: you know, a group of six different you know, boy
31:38
Speaker 1: names that two of which mckenned didn't even know who
31:40
Speaker 1: they were. Another one that she hadn't talked to. They
31:44
Speaker 1: were basically, you know, accusing her of again breaking the
31:47
Speaker 1: girl could and then ultimately, as Hunter had mentioned, sharing
31:49
Speaker 1: that information that she had been keeping secret for three
31:52
Speaker 1: years and mass distributing that to her teammates and friends. Oh,
31:57
Speaker 1: you know, grown women in their thirties, forties, fifties do
32:02
Speaker 1: not want to talk about a sex assault, be it
32:05
Speaker 1: right or any other type of sex assault grown women,
32:10
Speaker 1: much less a little girl exactly, and something that she
32:14
Speaker 1: had been keeping, you know, a secret for three years.
32:17
Speaker 1: When she went upstairs that Saturday night, the night before
32:19
Speaker 1: she passed away, she will then have looked at her
32:22
Speaker 1: phone obviously and saw this and saw the social media
32:25
Speaker 1: canceling and saw the you know, the distribution of this
32:29
Speaker 1: bundle of texts that you know that had been distributed
32:32
Speaker 1: by the group. And the only reason she revealed she
32:35
Speaker 1: actually told Cheryl like two nights before she passed about
32:38
Speaker 1: the sexual assault and the only reason she even mentioned
32:42
Speaker 1: it to Cheryl was because the girl had threatened to
32:47
Speaker 1: phone her phone her parents and she knew at that
32:51
Speaker 1: point in time. So you know, that will have been
32:54
Speaker 1: what mccanna would have impetus behind her, says, the impetus
32:58
Speaker 1: behind her finally sharing it with us, and Nancy, if
33:01
Speaker 1: I could make one last observation, please, this is a
33:07
Speaker 1: bit broader than the specific issue you're talking about, but
33:11
Speaker 1: I cannot help but think that what we see in
33:14
Speaker 1: these school bullying cases and the college hazing cases is
33:18
Speaker 1: really just symptomatic of a much bigger problem we have
33:21
Speaker 1: in this country. And we are seeing bullying at every
33:24
Speaker 1: level of our society. And it goes on every day
33:28
Speaker 1: in politics and politics in Washington, DC, in campaign season
33:34
Speaker 1: like the one we're in now, in state level politics
33:37
Speaker 1: and school board politics, we have seen bullying like we've
33:41
Speaker 1: never seen it before. These kids are exposed to witnessing
33:44
Speaker 1: all of that, and frankly, they're just doing what they're
33:48
Speaker 1: seeing adults do. And until adults get their act together,
33:53
Speaker 1: it's going to be impossible to rain this in when
33:55
Speaker 1: it comes to kids. And I'm no expert on that,
33:58
Speaker 1: but that's my two cents. Time Stories with Nancy Grace
34:16
Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher, the medical Examiner for the State
34:19
Speaker 1: of Florida. You can find him at pathcaremed dot com.
34:23
Speaker 1: Lecturer University Florida Medical School, founder and host of the
34:26
Speaker 1: International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation conference, Doctor Gallagher. McKenna's parents
34:34
Speaker 1: believe that she saw another barrage of these texts and
34:40
Speaker 1: snapchats calling her all sorts of hurtful names by her
34:45
Speaker 1: so called friends. And when the mom got up there
34:52
Speaker 1: and saw her the next morning, she was cold to
34:55
Speaker 1: the touch. That tells me their theory is correct. And
35:02
Speaker 1: I'm asking this for a probitive reason. I believe that
35:07
Speaker 1: the texts and the snaps and the posts were a
35:11
Speaker 1: direct cause of her suicide. And I want I'm coming
35:18
Speaker 1: to you on the time it would have taken from
35:21
Speaker 1: McKenna's body. This beautiful, sweet sixteen year old girl would
35:27
Speaker 1: just tear up the hockey field for her body to
35:34
Speaker 1: be cold to the touch, doctor Gallagher, and am beyond temperature.
35:39
Speaker 1: Let's just say seventy degrees sixty nine in the home.
35:43
Speaker 1: How long would it have been for her to reach
35:48
Speaker 1: that body temperature? Well, the body asked her death cools
35:53
Speaker 1: at about one degree per hour in ambient temperature. So
35:57
Speaker 1: if her body was cool to the touch, it most
36:01
Speaker 1: likely would have been deceased for several hours, possibly five, six,
36:06
Speaker 1: seven or eight hours. You know another point that I
36:10
Speaker 1: wanted to bring up. You know, in light of this
36:14
Speaker 1: tragic case is that this isn't, from my point of view,
36:19
Speaker 1: an isolated incident. You know, we're seeing this in the
36:22
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's office more and more frequently. The other problem
36:27
Speaker 1: is that the victims of this cyber bullying are becoming
36:32
Speaker 1: progressively younger and younger. We have decedents who had taken
36:40
Speaker 1: their own lives for the same reason, who are thirteen
36:44
Speaker 1: years old, twelve years old, and it all generates back
36:47
Speaker 1: to their social media interactions with their friends and their
36:54
Speaker 1: I guess phenemies is what they're calling them now. You know,
36:57
Speaker 1: I want to jump off what you just said, doctor
36:59
Speaker 1: Tim now all her too, McKenna's moms, Cheryl Brown or
37:03
Speaker 1: Dad Hunter Brown, either one of you. You know, I'm
37:06
Speaker 1: trying to accept that from my children, what their peers
37:10
Speaker 1: think and say seemingly impacts them more than what their
37:15
Speaker 1: father and I think or say. I'm wonder of us
37:18
Speaker 1: because we give them unconditional love, they don't have to
37:20
Speaker 1: worry as much. But I think that that is a
37:23
Speaker 1: single most powerful influence on them. Their peers. It's their
37:28
Speaker 1: world at that age, it's their whole world and absolutely
37:31
Speaker 1: to undevelop brains, you know, it's and they're more impulsive
37:35
Speaker 1: at that age. And you know, I was let Cheryl
37:39
Speaker 1: comment on this, and I had a comment that I'd
37:41
Speaker 1: like to circle back to um. But like in McKenna's
37:44
Speaker 1: note with Ryl can talk about you know, she talks
37:47
Speaker 1: about her family versus what was going on in her
37:49
Speaker 1: friend world. She left us a note and the timeline
37:52
Speaker 1: he's very correct because Cheryl last saw Charyl let the
37:55
Speaker 1: dog out to McKenna's room at three o'clock in the morning,
37:57
Speaker 1: and then she went up to get her to go
37:58
Speaker 1: to church right around after I got home to them
38:02
Speaker 1: from the fire station. So the time and when I
38:06
Speaker 1: let the dog out of the room, I stepped into
38:08
Speaker 1: a room and I saw her in bed and she
38:10
Speaker 1: was snoring. So it happened between three thirty and nine thirty.
38:16
Speaker 1: And I mean obviously not at nine thirty, because at
38:18
Speaker 1: the you know, she was cool. So it had happened
38:21
Speaker 1: sometime in between and rigor had set in. I've got
38:25
Speaker 1: two words, Michelle Carter. She pushed her very sensitive boyfriend
38:31
Speaker 1: to commit suicide and she was tried and convicted. So
38:36
Speaker 1: it can be done if the police investigate this case
38:41
Speaker 1: and get the warrants to connect those texts, those snapchats,
38:46
Speaker 1: those social postings to the time of her death, and
38:51
Speaker 1: this she got what she deserved. I think it's a
38:53
Speaker 1: very damning statement to show the frame of mind of
38:58
Speaker 1: the so called mean girls that putting ephemistically that they thought,
39:02
Speaker 1: this is exactly what she deserved. Translation, this is what
39:06
Speaker 1: we intended. I believe a jury may see it that way.
39:10
Speaker 1: Of course, all of them and their families insist there
39:12
Speaker 1: innocently had nothing to do with this, this horrible moment
39:16
Speaker 1: in the Brown family's lives. To the Browns, I just
39:22
Speaker 1: wish that McKenna could have held on a few more
39:27
Speaker 1: hours until she was back and your loving arms and
39:30
Speaker 1: your supportive words and your encouragement and her teammates would
39:34
Speaker 1: have rallied around her. Yes, yeah they did. They came forward,
39:37
Speaker 1: they knew it had happened, was wrong, and she persevered
39:40
Speaker 1: just a few days, you know, and struggled through it.
39:43
Speaker 1: Like Cheryl said, you know, the only reason we know
39:46
Speaker 1: any of this is because after the Kanna passed and
39:48
Speaker 1: after the service, her friends started to come forward, you know,
39:52
Speaker 1: and make phone calls and send us the text, you know,
39:56
Speaker 1: forward the text to a friend of Cheryl's and then
39:58
Speaker 1: they got forward to us. Only reason we have any
40:01
Speaker 1: knowledge other than you know that there had thinke been
40:03
Speaker 1: a little bit of mean girl activity. But the only
40:05
Speaker 1: reason we know anything about the screen catchers that work
40:08
Speaker 1: forwards the teammates and friends, the phone calls that were made. Hey,
40:12
Speaker 1: you know, Hunter Brown, that's the kind of thing that
40:14
Speaker 1: law enforcement should be gathering in this case. They have
40:18
Speaker 1: all that mcckenna wiped her McKenna wiped her phone as
40:22
Speaker 1: well and her social media accounts, and then of course
40:25
Speaker 1: the friend to quote friends had deleted all of the
40:30
Speaker 1: their posts as well and all of their texts. Much
40:32
Speaker 1: of that can be reconstructed. While we were dealing with
40:36
Speaker 1: discovering McKenna, getting the law enforcement, the fire department, who
40:41
Speaker 1: is the neighboring department to us? If we lived next
40:43
Speaker 1: door to the community on which I work, So the
40:46
Speaker 1: neighboring department to mine whom I all move very well,
40:49
Speaker 1: you know. Meanwhile, the four girls were at the beach.
40:53
Speaker 1: The detective went right over to that house. The detective
40:55
Speaker 1: went right over and yep, the girls are at the beach.
40:58
Speaker 1: So they talked to the parents there, who, Cheryl, tell
41:03
Speaker 1: me what you're a day in your life is right now.
41:07
Speaker 1: I wake up every morning hoping it's a nightmare and
41:11
Speaker 1: knowing that it's not. I mean, for the first month,
41:13
Speaker 1: I was thrown up every morning. Just once that realization
41:16
Speaker 1: set in, and now it's you know, I hear songs,
41:21
Speaker 1: I see pictures, and you know, it makes you cry,
41:25
Speaker 1: and I hope I get to the point where I
41:27
Speaker 1: you know, they'll make me smile again. She was just
41:31
Speaker 1: such an amazing kid too, you know, popular, beautiful, funny,
41:34
Speaker 1: just loved by everyone that met her. She was a
41:37
Speaker 1: future scholar into national championships, would have been three times,
41:41
Speaker 1: but one got canceled because of COVID, and she was
41:44
Speaker 1: the one helping others, like she was the one including
41:47
Speaker 1: others that were feeling left out that we're new, they
41:50
Speaker 1: didn't have any friends, that were feeling bullied. She walked
41:52
Speaker 1: you know, a student so the parking lot twice because
41:56
Speaker 1: they felt bullied. She was the one that was, you know,
42:00
Speaker 1: very cog is nobody what was going on. If nobody
42:03
Speaker 1: would talk to the studenter they were ostracized, you know,
42:07
Speaker 1: she would. She was the one that would talk to
42:09
Speaker 1: them and you know, make them feel like they belonged.
42:11
Speaker 1: Mister miss Brown I know that these may sound like
42:14
Speaker 1: empty words, but they're not. We care so much about
42:19
Speaker 1: what you're going through, and I pray to God in
42:23
Speaker 1: Heaven that you're speaking out today will help just even
42:27
Speaker 1: one child, one team girl or boy, get through that
42:33
Speaker 1: dark moment. Just if you could just give what is
42:36
Speaker 1: your advice to parents? Parents like me, having open dialogue
42:41
Speaker 1: and constant conversations with your kids. I know that a
42:44
Speaker 1: lot of people have come forward since McKenna has passed away,
42:47
Speaker 1: and conversations are being had that weren't being had before
42:52
Speaker 1: because of these statistics about all these kids going through
42:55
Speaker 1: and experiencing some type or form of bullyers cyber bullying.
43:00
Speaker 1: But having those conversations with your kids, and you know,
43:04
Speaker 1: kids are kids. Kids have secrets. But some secrets are
43:07
Speaker 1: too heavy a burden to bear by themselves. And most
43:11
Speaker 1: of the time they are a secret because they think
43:13
Speaker 1: that the parents are going to be upset or mad,
43:15
Speaker 1: or they're going to get in trouble. Parents just want
43:18
Speaker 1: to help their kids. It is unconditional love, and they
43:21
Speaker 1: they got to know that they can talk to them
43:23
Speaker 1: and that they're there for them and they've always got
43:25
Speaker 1: their back. My advice would be don't don't think it
43:30
Speaker 1: can't happen to you. I mean, we live in a
43:33
Speaker 1: very affluent area. You know, our son went through the
43:36
Speaker 1: school as well. He played hockey for the high school team. Uh, McKenna.
43:41
Speaker 1: Our understanding is she's she's right around. There's a half
43:45
Speaker 1: dozen get suicides in that school. It's an a rated
43:48
Speaker 1: school in a very affluent area. There's been a half
43:51
Speaker 1: at least a half dozen suicides in a half dozen years.
43:55
Speaker 1: One of them played football, two of them were swimmers.
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Speaker 1: One I already had any one a full one scholarship,
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Speaker 1: one was a band member, McKenna. You know they were
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Speaker 1: all scholar at four scholar athletes, a band member, and
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Speaker 1: then we believe there's at least one no other. And
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Speaker 1: there's a number of people who have come forward to
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Speaker 1: whose children also had unsuccessful accounts, who have been bullied
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Speaker 1: in that school quite severely as well. So you know,
44:22
Speaker 1: don't think it can happen. I don't think it can't
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Speaker 1: happen to you, just because you know your kids go
44:27
Speaker 1: to a Greade school and are doing well athletically, academically
44:30
Speaker 1: and socially. I've got to tell you something to Sherylan
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Speaker 1: Hunter Brown, your comments have had a huge, a profound
44:38
Speaker 1: impact on me, and I don't know where you're getting
44:43
Speaker 1: the strength to continue, McKenna, but I do want to
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Speaker 1: let you know from McKenna that you are having a
44:51
Speaker 1: huge impact on this world. Nancy Grace signing off good
44:56
Speaker 1: bye three