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Coffee People: Bill Kennedy, San Franciscan Roaster Company · Coffee People Podcast

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Good coffee. Welcome back to the coffee.
1:00
People podcast, presented by roast West Coast.
1:04
I'm Ryan Wilt. And this is the show where we
1:06
meet and are inspired by the entrepreneurial stories of
1:10
coffee people. Today's guest is Bill, Kennedy
1:13
of the San Franciscan roaster company, or sfr for short.
1:17
He's the head, honcho the CEO and The owner of an American
1:21
manufacturing company that builds and Designs.
1:24
Beautiful coffee, roasting machines.
1:26
In addition to having a really interesting entrepreneurial
1:29
Journey. Bill regularly spouts.
1:31
These little Common Sense nuggets of advice so many.
1:34
In fact that I started writing them down and I'm going to share
1:37
them on the show newsletter, which you can find on roast
1:40
westcoast.com. If you want to see the beauty of
1:42
these machines for yourself, while you're listening, follow
1:45
at San Fran, roaster on Instagram, it's the best place
1:48
to see a wide. Ranging gallery of the machines
1:51
both from sfr, and from Roasters around the world who use them.
1:55
You can also see sfr at the upcoming specialty coffee
1:58
Association Convention. It's important in late April,
2:02
and if you happen to be there, they will be in Booth. 253, I
2:05
hope to run into you there right now.
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I've got a Columbia coffee that I brewed up in a French press
2:10
Ian, honor of Bill that will make sense a little bit later.
2:13
And just before we get started, I want to set the scene a little
2:16
bit bill and I were chatting over coffee during one of the
2:19
many Many bad weather days. We've had in the southwest
2:22
recently. It was storming outside.
2:24
My podcast booth in Southern California and I don't think
2:27
things were much better up in Nevada, where Bill clad in a
2:31
white beard black framed glasses, and a dark baseball cap
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was set up on the other side of the screen, there is a bit of
2:38
frisky audio during this show but I promised the conversation
2:41
is worth it wherever you are. I hope that you're already
2:44
enjoying a good cup of coffee today because it's time for this
2:47
coffee people conversation with The head honcho of San
2:51
Franciscan roaster company. Bill.
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Kennedy, On that note.
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Bill. Thanks for taking some time to
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talk to me. Welcome to the show.
3:10
The roast West Coast, podcast coffee people podcast.
3:13
We're here to learn more about you and as the head honcho of
3:18
San Franciscan roaster company, you mentioned to me just a
3:22
minute ago about you were in public education.
3:25
What were you doing before coffee came along?
3:27
And was coffee part of your life back then.
3:30
Yeah, I didn't grow up being coffee snob.
3:34
I didn't drink coffee. I didn't enjoy it.
3:37
You know, like, a lot of people, and but there came a time, I
3:42
guess when I was in teaching and our young single in the had a
3:50
favorite little place, and I've learned enjoy coffee with cream
3:53
and sugar, when I went out to breakfast and Joe to cup of
3:56
coffee for that again, it had have cream.
4:00
And sugar. But then Along Came one of my
4:02
brothers and he bought a coffee house called the loony being up
4:05
in Mammoth Lakes. And so I started getting a
4:09
little bit into the copy scene and seeing what that was like
4:14
and really started, you know, learning a lot enjoying it and
4:19
then finding out what real good coffee tastes like coffee.
4:24
Well, roasted started discovering different flavor,
4:28
nuances, and so on, And I don't mean like, you know, vanilla
4:32
he's from and I'm talking about actual flavor notes and that you
4:37
can bring out of a coffee and they can point where it just
4:42
kind of cross the bridge. And I thought, you know what,
4:46
I'm going to learn how to like copy.
4:47
And I'm going to stop cold turkey, no cream and sugar.
4:52
And took two weeks. And after that two weeks, the
4:57
thought of putting cream and sugar in the copy, it was, it
5:01
was Radical 180-degree turn it became, I won't say an
5:08
obsession. But it became something that I
5:12
just I had to taste every single coffee.
5:17
I would good or bad. I had to taste it.
5:19
I had to determine what is Flavor notes were being, you
5:22
know, we earlier room we were talking about, you know, OCD
5:27
Tendencies and that's me. I have to taste every kind of
5:31
cup of coffee. That there is determined what
5:34
happened come up with a diagnosis good bad or otherwise
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of, you know what's going on and yeah, it became, you know, a
5:42
passion, a keen interest of mine and something that I think about
5:48
all the time and just just basically Fascination at some
5:54
point. It turns Something that you you
5:58
move into as a career. But before I ask about that,
6:02
there had to be something that made you decide that you were
6:05
going to leave public education. Was there a Tipping Point there
6:10
that made? You think that was it just an
6:11
opportunity presented that you were going to go a different
6:14
direction. You know, what happened to make
6:17
you think? I'm going to Veer off this path
6:19
that I've been on. Especially I have a little
6:22
experience in that education field.
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There's a track that people can get on and go right through to
6:27
retirement and you veered off of it.
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Why did you do that? You know, there are a couple of
6:32
reasons, but I made that decision I was a school
6:36
administrator. And of course I was seeing a
6:38
side of life that most people don't.
6:42
I'd made a determination that my kids were not going to be
6:46
subject to a lot of the especially - socialization that
6:51
happens with peers and I decided We're going to homeschool our
6:55
six kids and so, yeah, I mean, we raised our kids, they went
7:00
K12, you know, three out of three college graduates and
7:06
they're all been very successful, but I just did not
7:09
want them to have those negative influences.
7:13
Secondly, from an entrepreneurial perspective, I
7:17
wanted to leave a legacy for my kids and if they want to wanted
7:21
to have the opportunity to move into a family business, You
7:25
really can't move into a family government job.
7:29
Well, not legally and I wanted something for them to at least
7:33
have a choice to accept or reject to do something else.
7:38
But I really enjoyed being an entrepreneur and the challenges
7:44
that come with it. And so, those two things were
7:47
probably the biggest reasons why let public education School
7:52
boards. Don't like it if the principal.
7:54
I will not put their kids in the school, they understood my
7:58
position, but the Optics from good.
8:01
And so it just, it just made sense and took a couple of years
8:06
to make the transition. And but I came a point where I
8:11
pulled the trigger and left pup Gadget education, and, you know,
8:15
the security of a regular government paycheck for the The
8:22
exciting ride of entrepreneurial Adventures of the Dead, the
8:27
daily thrill of panic and uncertainty.
8:30
Yes. How did you end up specifically
8:34
with San Francisco roaster company?
8:36
And I might be a little hazy on the details of my history but
8:40
that it was a company that already existed and correct me
8:43
if I'm wrong that you purchased So the San Franciscan roaster.
8:50
It was a brand and I did buy the company there it can bow tie.
8:56
A couple of brothers that were in a coffee business and one
8:59
brother was opening up another Lily being in Montrose Colorado.
9:06
And so, all the brothers kind of came together to help open the
9:11
store and do this and that he had purchased a used sand.
9:15
Franciscan roaster and it needed some repairs.
9:19
And I contacted the owner of the company and we were able to buy
9:25
some parts, but not everything and found out he was closing up
9:29
shop. Well, at the time I was still
9:32
looking for that entrepreneurial opportunity and so I went to
9:39
actually talk to him about it, so we can do it the company
9:43
because he was just going to close up.
9:45
And so we end up having a discussion and three months
9:49
later, moved my family to Little Town Fallon Nevada.
9:54
And I started my undergraduate degrees industrial management so
10:00
I wasn't entirely you know unfamiliar with what
10:04
manufacturing we just started. We just started with the group.
10:09
I it was put everything on the line, it was an All or Nothing,
10:13
proposition for our family. it was, it was yeah, it was all so
10:18
2008 and that was when all the crunches started happening and
10:23
economy and we We made it though.
10:30
But yeah, I would say a lot of praying and and you know,
10:39
sometimes that were very, very tight through the whole process
10:43
has all the processes. It was good.
10:47
I can look back with fond memories, it wasn't traumatic,
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you know, it was it was exciting, you know, it was very
10:56
exciting. And Time After Time, things
10:59
happen, just at the right time for us.
11:01
And those earlier years and we continue growing to what we are
11:06
today and we can we expect a continuing, even even bad.
11:13
I remember 2008 very clearly because we were trying to sell
11:16
our house as we moved across the country and it was a rough go of
11:19
it, my wife and I click aside ended up selling our house and
11:23
getting a check for $460 half it and we were grateful because we
11:29
knew people that weren't I was in real estate at the time and
11:32
we took that $460 and we spent 60 of it on a pizza and beer
11:36
dinner and put the rest in the bank and off we went.
11:40
So it was a remember that very, very well.
11:43
Your Roasters, appeal to me as a person with a background in
11:47
design because you've integrated both art and functionality.
11:54
When I see one, I'm drawn to it and I'm I think that's really
11:57
interesting because it's not necessarily.
12:01
The first thing you would think of when you're thinking about
12:03
the efficiency of a coffee roaster or the functionality of
12:07
the product. But you haven't sacrificed that
12:09
form over function. I'm wondering why why does that
12:15
design matter into the build and into kind of the ethos of your
12:20
company? What is important about that
12:22
that you continue to do that when?
12:26
And I'm not trying to slide another brand or any other
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thing, but the a lot of other Roasters are very streamlined,
12:33
very stainless steel, very clean lines.
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There's some of the new ones are essentially boxes with a little
12:41
hole in in it, and you can reach in and do your thing.
12:44
Why did you guys, why was that important to the company?
12:48
And why have you continued that over all of this, these years
12:51
that you've been in charge, I have to give credit to my
12:54
predecessor, you know, just for the bones of the machine.
12:59
You he used to work for one of our competitors Probot decades
13:04
ago. And they have their systems and
13:09
so on. He's a good old boy from
13:11
Oklahoma. Had a lot of real mechanical
13:15
genius about him and it didn't always fit with, you know, a
13:20
large company. And so he is a, you know, came
13:25
to a point where, you know, he was an Oklahoma redneck, you
13:28
know, they were a German company and, you know, their ideas and
13:32
precision, and it was a culture clash, and so they parted ways.
13:38
He ended up starting this company where he was basically
13:42
refurbishing vintage. European Roasters.
13:45
Robot seunghye got hot Etc, petrosini.
13:50
And he'd he'd take these European Roasters, he would
13:54
americanize them with voltage and frequency.
13:58
So the motors would turn properly here in the United
14:00
States and they need resell them and he came to learn a lot of
14:06
what were the best aspects of these multiple European Brands
14:11
and what were the worst, especially when it came with
14:14
cleaning and maintenance, and he told me I had an epiphany, one
14:17
day when he had a sea Container full of broken Roasters, they
14:21
picked up for nothing. And shipped over from Europe
14:25
because he still had his contacts with Probot and so on.
14:30
And they were sent to this little shop in Fallon Nevada and
14:34
he'd go through any City went through and he ended up
14:39
scrapping. You know 80% 90% of of that
14:43
entire container it just wasn't worth the time to go through and
14:48
repair this any kind of a little if any decided I can do My own.
14:53
So again he took all that knowledge.
14:55
He took his natural mechanical genius.
14:58
Created a prototype, got a certified and then he started
15:03
production of the 12 kilo roaster called BSF. 25.
15:08
It was, you know, it's going to be an American roaster.
15:11
So American, you know, measurement systems and so on.
15:16
And he did that, and I was in 1992, 31 years ago.
15:22
And he kind of caught the beginning of, you know, the wave
15:26
of specialty coffee back then. And he built these Roasters.
15:31
Look at tank, you know, a lot of conflict he had with his is the
15:36
modernization, most of these streamlining manufacturing
15:40
methods where let's just say the heavy cast-iron.
15:45
It was too costly to do that. Cast iron has wonderful heat
15:49
diffusion characteristics. It's also a very brittle metal
15:54
and so it has to be very thick and so on and some of the design
15:59
changes were just in alignment with manufacturing improvements
16:04
in engines industry generally. And so you can manufacture the
16:10
coffee roaster as fast as Whirlpool can make a dishwasher.
16:15
And that's what was going on. He he, he worked against that
16:20
that's when he left. And then he took over doing the
16:24
refurbishing and then he started he designed this on roaster.
16:28
He built it like a tank but he he eliminated to cast iron and
16:33
went with that mild carbon steel that very thick plate.
16:39
Just Like I said, literally, bulletproof.
16:45
And so he did that and then his son didn't want to follow in his
16:49
footsteps and so I again, I discussed, you know, I found the
16:54
opportunity, we were to deal. I move my family to Fallon and I
16:58
started working building the roasters.
17:03
The art and function. Now, my brother owned one of
17:06
these. When he bought the coffee house
17:08
and then face and learning being, it was like the sixth
17:11
roaster that my predecessor had built and he had this sign.
17:16
That's when I start roasting those Middle School
17:19
administrator and it was great therapy to sit and roast coffee
17:25
and here, the wish wish wish wish of the beans in the drum,
17:28
and, and pay attention to the development.
17:33
And again, at first, it was turning green, beans Brown, and
17:37
hopefully, you pull them a roaster before you have a fire.
17:40
I mean, that level of knowledge and, but it grew from there and
17:45
that we got better and better at it, and then slow and behold a
17:49
few years later, I own this company that built that roaster
17:54
and that was, that was a cool transition for me.
17:56
But I've always loved old stuff, I've always loved stuff that was
18:00
built solid. In my office, I get 120 year old
18:06
GE brass blade fans that still works and it's an art piece and
18:12
but yet mechanically and electrically, it still works.
18:16
It'll still blow the desk, the papers on my desk.
18:20
That says, when people don't make stuff like that anymore,
18:23
it's a really a throwaway culture and I purpose I'm going
18:26
to I'm going to continue making things like I was going to
18:31
personally own on that device that we make and how I would
18:36
want it to be. And then I impart that to our
18:39
clients and I think we do a pretty good job with that.
18:44
And as we've grown, we've been able to maintain a good
18:49
reputation. You've customer service and in
18:51
that regard and reticent to see it as a podcast.
18:56
But, you know, since I've owned the company for the last 15,
19:00
some years, if you call during Non-business hours and he hit
19:05
option one, who stole my cell phone and I still do that
19:09
because I get that few calls, sometimes you get a call from,
19:14
you know, the Middle Eastern Europe.
19:15
In the middle of the night, waking me up asking for pricing
19:18
or something like that. But yeah, if I'm awake answer
19:24
the call and I've been on that side of the fence where if you
19:28
have any downtime and you got a big order to put out.
19:33
I'll do what I can to help you put out that order if you can.
19:36
I have to share this story with you actually.
19:39
The reason that I reached out to San Franciscan to invite you on
19:42
the show, in the first place is another guest of mine.
19:45
And I'm, I don't want to be quoted on this, even though I'm
19:48
putting myself, but think it was John Pearson at servant coffee
19:51
in Denver. He told me that when he was
19:54
first getting into the business, he was looking for a roaster and
19:58
he didn't have any Experience One Way or Another and he called
20:03
San Franciscan and you answered the phone in, you are across the
20:07
river on some trip somewhere and he didn't realize until halfway
20:11
through the conversation that you had picked up the phone.
20:13
Despite the fact that you were maybe in Asia or somewhere, I
20:16
don't know who it was, but the idea that he called, and someone
20:20
answered the phone meant so much to him, that he decided to go
20:24
that way. And if I'm wrong on The Roaster,
20:26
I apologize. The idea of building things to
20:29
last. I personally love, I think
20:31
there's a demand for it. From people, my generation and
20:35
younger. I'm in my 40s, my brothers in
20:37
his 30s and we both kind of have this conversation all the time
20:40
where, you know, I bought a washing machine and two years
20:43
later, it doesn't work and not only does it not work, but
20:46
nobody wants to fix it, you know, or it's going to cost me
20:48
twice as much to fix it as it is to replace it.
20:51
And it's like my parents were still using the same washing
20:54
machine that I grew up with as a kid.
20:56
And, you know, it was fine. And so I think there's that
20:58
demand. We just need to Get a wave of
21:02
consumers to keep pushing for those things so I certainly
21:06
appreciate that. It kind of leads me to this
21:09
question about success. Success is hard to sustain.
21:12
You mentioned, you've been doing this since 08 and I'm guessing
21:16
at some point there were some tough times and low.
21:18
As you mentioned that, where things were tight What advice
21:23
could you give people listening? Just on maintaining belief that
21:28
your course is right? That you're you know you said
21:31
you put it all on the line I mean at some point do you go?
21:35
Maybe I should have put it on a different line.
21:39
What, how would you address that?
21:42
You know, I I would say you know from an entrepreneurial point of
21:46
view one. Make sure you believe in you and
21:49
what you're doing. And if you do And I did and and
21:54
I believed in the values behind what we were doing.
21:57
You just have time. Grit determination perseverance
22:02
and endurance. And you know our marketing
22:08
advertising young lady her father's a Nevada rancher and we
22:15
were talking about this just the other day and she said yeah my
22:18
dad, she would go. He says what you do is you get
22:24
it done or you get it done? Those are your choices.
22:30
And you just do it. You just do it.
22:33
And of course, obviously, you know, sometimes you're going to
22:37
reach a point where it's clearly not going to be sustainable, you
22:41
know? And you know, failure is your
22:44
only option for that but in any entrepreneurial Enterprise, you
22:49
know, where you take failure, is you just learn from it and you
22:54
start your next opportunity and so that.
22:59
Yeah. Yeah, failures can happen even
23:02
within a business as it's growing without having it fail,
23:07
the entire business, but this is where the grit and determination
23:11
is seeking counsel and making things.
23:15
Knowing money is nice. Capital is King.
23:20
But but people, you know, Banks, it's like when you need the
23:25
money, they're not going to lend it.
23:26
And when you don't need the money, they're all over you.
23:29
Yeah, but it's when you need the money but money isn't always the
23:34
solution. Sometimes not having the money
23:37
requires you to again knuckle down and find a smarter solution
23:44
to accomplish the same thing instead of throwing money at it.
23:49
And this is where you just learn wisdom from you know, in an
23:54
entrepreneurial Enterprise like that.
23:58
And then surround yourself with a great team, you know, people
24:01
that are humble, you know, they're, but they're, they're
24:05
willing to do whatever it takes to make the Enterprise succeed
24:09
and they're hungry and to, they will work hard and they're
24:15
great. Team players they know when to
24:17
speak and when not to and you know, and you just build a
24:23
cohesive team as your organization grows and then
24:26
helps you with it. The hard times, I mean everybody
24:29
went through hard times last couple three years with the
24:32
pandemic and you know some some people got relief from the
24:36
government and you know that was necessary government-mandated,
24:42
shut down and see how the government took care of.
24:44
You know, the people just help is many people stay in business
24:48
as possible. But, you know, now we're past
24:51
that and we're still in uncertain times, you know, in my
24:57
business. Business.
24:58
You know coffee I gotta share those stories.
25:01
Won't one of the guys are worked for me years ago.
25:04
He grew up in Fallon and its high school.
25:09
He did some work for an older couple and at the end of the job
25:14
the fellow older fellow said hey can I pay you in silver dollars
25:18
because or short on cash said sure.
25:20
So again a few silver dollars. And he noted that the old fella
25:25
had a silver dollar little hole drilled on it and it was on his
25:30
key chain and he said, hey you go, so darn your keychain and
25:35
the fella said, yeah, that way annoys have a cup of coffee
25:39
enough money for a cup of coffee, you know?
25:42
And so for me in the coffee business copies, that something
25:45
pleasure that people are going to hang onto through thick or
25:47
thin. And so, people want to meet that
25:52
need Across this country, you know, it's my hope that we can
25:57
help these smaller, entrepreneurs, jump into
26:00
something where they can meet that.
26:03
Need this one, the other fascinating things about coffee
26:07
correctly, complex, organic, and any other brings so much
26:12
pleasure to people. And I like to build, you know,
26:16
our roasters so that we can help our clients.
26:19
You know, meet their clients needs as best they can.
26:23
Well, that brings us to this concept of the future and how
26:28
things are changing. I think the coronavirus impacted
26:32
every business we mean, everyone is kind of aware of that.
26:35
We've talked about it a lot on this show, if I'm not mistaken,
26:38
a lot of your, the building of your machines happens here in
26:42
the United States, I'm wondering how Manufacturing in America was
26:46
either kind of challenging, or was a benefit during that time.
26:48
And then as we're going forward, you know what, I'm going to To
26:53
hold that off. I'd rather just address kind of
26:55
the idea that you're doing this work here, which is something
26:59
I've heard from a couple other coffee industry people.
27:01
That surprised me when so many Manufacturing in particular
27:05
Industries are not, you know how did that benefit you or
27:07
challenge you over the last 34 years?
27:10
Well yes from total cost accounting point of view.
27:16
Sometimes it's easier to you know accept a poor quality
27:21
component. If Outsourced overseas and I was
27:27
just never going to do that ours.
27:28
Our philosophy is always going to be 100% American made.
27:32
We make sure that the steel that we receive is domestic mind,
27:38
refined and mailed in the United States of America.
27:41
We find that the American Steel is superior to any other steal
27:47
from other parts of the world that can be produced more
27:51
cheaply and there are number of reasons for that.
27:53
That but one it has to be American made to there's a,
27:59
there's a culture and a sense of Pride and maintain an
28:03
organizational, kind of kind of tight-knit, organization and
28:09
that sense of pride in the work that's done by all of the people
28:14
in the organization is Manifest in the product that they output
28:19
out. So there's so many different
28:22
levels of Let's just say natural control.
28:26
It's not, it's not, you know, controls that are enforced by,
28:30
you know, punishments. If there's if there's things
28:33
done wrong but they're kind of intrinsic controls that are put
28:37
that everybody has, because they really want to put out the best
28:40
product possible. And as part of the American
28:43
culture, and the nature of America taking pride in
28:47
workmanship and really there's a joy Boy that comes with that and
28:55
that Joy translates into superior quality that I think
29:00
you find an American craftsmanship and then you find
29:04
in other places in the world. And again I don't want to be
29:08
disparaging at all because everybody has their their
29:10
cultures and everything. But what I find unique about the
29:14
American Experience. Is that attitude?
29:19
That attitude. Yeah, we're the best and we're
29:22
going and we're going to Drive to be the best.
29:25
And if someone beats us well dadgummit, we're going to beat
29:29
them back and we're going to do better, you know?
29:32
And so I kind of a kind of a competitive Spirit.
29:36
That's not angry. It's almost fun.
29:39
You know, it's okay. I see what you did there.
29:44
I'm going to do it better. There's since of Ingenuity, you
29:47
know, I put that on the side plaque so that the San
29:50
Franciscan roaster All of them, have the phrase, art and
29:56
ingenuity. And you know, that goes to what
30:00
the craft of grossing coffee. But it also has to do with the
30:04
approach. We take to manufacturing, our
30:06
coffee roasters one, I will say this, and I know it's me saying
30:12
it, but we have the most attractive coffee roaster in the
30:15
world. We just do.
30:18
And I will argue till I'm blue in the face with anybody who
30:21
says otherwise and I will still be right.
30:27
And You know, that's high and will always be that way too.
30:31
We're always looking for ways to be, you know, to exercise levels
30:38
of Ingenuity to make it so that it's as ergonomic as possible
30:44
for our clients. While at the same time,
30:48
encouraging our clients to not push a button and turn coffee
30:52
roasting into, basically, wait till you hear the Beeper and
30:56
then take the fries out. Oil like you here in the beepers
31:00
and McDonald's, you know, it's a lot more complex like that.
31:05
There's a place for coffee roasters like that and so I
31:09
don't want to, you know, detract from business models that do
31:12
that. But our particular niche in this
31:16
market are for people who are passionate about coffee there
31:19
and they're passionate about the craft and they're willing to
31:21
spend the time that it takes to understand what happens during
31:26
the rose process. And to embrace that and to
31:31
produce a very fine coffee for the retail clients or their
31:37
wholesale clients to make that simple pleasure happen.
31:42
Like, that old fella had that that longing were that he was
31:46
always going to keep that Silver Dollar on his key chain.
31:49
So he could always be ensured of that simple pleasure.
31:53
And so we're seeking to make sure that that simple pleasure
31:56
is fulfilled. For our clients and for their
32:00
clients to and again, it's it's a culture.
32:05
It's a process. It's a pride in craftsmanship.
32:09
It's a pride in making things beautiful pleasing to the eye.
32:14
You know, the look of The Roaster just by itself adds and
32:18
there's a theater about it. There's an Ambiance that it
32:21
brings to a coffeehouse, we have one up in Virginia City and that
32:27
people take their Picture next to that coffee roaster, all day
32:31
long during the busy Seasons because like I said, Uncle bun,
32:37
a face. We have the best-looking coffee
32:39
roaster in the world. Well, your Roasters are often
32:43
showpieces in, especially smaller, independent, coffee
32:47
roasters that I've been in, I certainly have more than a few
32:50
photos of them on my camera roll.
32:54
I find that I can end up gravitating towards them.
32:56
So, I haven't looked at every roaster, so I can't 100% agree
33:00
with you, but I do think that when I see one, I'm naturally
33:03
drawn to it for its attractiveness.
33:06
Yeah. And just because you haven't
33:08
experienced it doesn't mean it's not going to happen eventually.
33:12
So I you know and there were always new new Roasters coming
33:17
out of different parts of the world and they look a lot about
33:20
no one can really match what we've done though.
33:23
You know I see Roasters with lots of lights and switches.
33:28
Churches and displays and whatever.
33:33
And I joke with with folks, I said looked at the more your
33:39
coffee roaster looks like a lit up Christmas tree.
33:41
The more they're trying to compensate for what they're not
33:44
doing right on the inside and we really really work hard on the
33:50
Metallurgy and the heat diffusion characteristics so
33:56
that you can you Distribute heat.
33:59
Convectively conductive lie with radiant heat and you have a
34:05
broad diversity of heat applications because each one
34:08
bring a different aspect to the flavor notes of the coffee drink
34:11
during different parts of the roasting process.
34:14
So, we spent a lot of time with that and again, the type of the
34:19
type of person that Embraces the roasting that we facilitate is
34:25
someone who is going to be passionate about the coffee.
34:28
Fee and they're looking really hard at the craft to just like
34:35
let's put it this way. You get a really good coffee and
34:38
you have a couple of impressionist painters.
34:40
You have my money and then you have Van Gogh both of them go to
34:45
the Louvre, check out their paintings go you know go to the
34:49
art museum in London on Trafalgar Square and you can
34:53
stare, I mean, I remember staring at the sun flowers from
34:58
Van Gogh for 45 minutes. And then looking at the Lily
35:01
Pond that Monet did and it couldn't stop staring at it
35:06
totally different both impressionist but do different
35:10
approaches to Art and in coffee is very much the same way.
35:15
And my goal is to make a coffee roaster so that if you have an
35:19
artist that puts out, you know, their version of Monet, and the
35:24
coffee cup, you have another roaster, that puts out their
35:28
Ocean of Van Gogh in a coffee cup.
35:30
The still meeting the desire that people have for that simple
35:34
pleasure but it's still Monet. It's still Evancho and we want
35:40
to be able to facilitate for that that for people, I don't
35:44
know, it's kind of hard to explain but it's a culture, it's
35:47
a mindset. I will go as far as say it's a
35:50
spirituality, I suppose some people could say can say that
35:53
too, let's put it this way, it goes to the soul and And I've
35:58
sold Roasters to larger organizations and they will have
36:01
one brand that mass-produces copy that typically goes on
36:06
grocery store shelves and stuff like that.
36:08
And they'll say yeah that roaster has no soul, but your
36:12
roaster does. And so I think that, you know,
36:16
as a matter of Ford kind of then describes how we're set apart
36:20
from other manufacturers, not to say that other Coffee Roasters
36:26
can be more efficient. There's more.
36:30
Things, you can touch your buttons, less capability,
36:34
required on the operator, you know, to roast coffee.
36:39
Certainly, there's all kinds of automation of stuff that's
36:41
available. We can go that way, but I'm
36:46
measured about how far we go that way because I really wanted
36:50
to be part of the human experience, both in roasting the
36:54
coffee and then enjoying the copy.
36:56
That was roasted on my machine. It reminds me.
36:59
The argument between an automated strike zone, in
37:03
baseball. You know, is there a
37:04
relationship between the roaster and the Machine or is, is that
37:10
roaster. Anyone could step into that spot
37:12
and hit those buttons and the idea that having a relationship
37:17
between a person and the the tool that they're using, I
37:21
think, in theory, the idea is that it would imbue some of that
37:24
spirit and some of that effort and some of that that craft that
37:27
you mentioned into the product. That they're producing and as a
37:31
consumer, whether you realize it or not, you are experiencing
37:35
that you're feeling that. Hopefully that does bring up the
37:38
point. You mentioned Automation and I'm
37:40
thinking about this kind of point we are at in the world.
37:44
I'm sure every generation believes there at the Tipping
37:46
Point that seems to be a commonality.
37:49
But with with the discussions about climate change and
37:53
sustainability, and our discussion today about a
37:58
building to last How does sfr in the industry generally?
38:04
Where do you see that going? How does that impact your
38:06
decision, making for the future in the coffee industry, which is
38:11
really unique in that? It connects pretty much every
38:14
corner of the world. There's a few non coffee
38:16
drinking areas, but for the most part coffee's drunk almost
38:19
everywhere in the world. And that coffee Community is
38:21
only growing in places like India and China and you know,
38:24
huge population centers and yet it seems like our the places we
38:30
can grow coffee is also shifting and the need for sustainability
38:34
is growing. How does your company fit into
38:36
that? You know well it's a weird kind
38:42
of a drop in the bucket as far as you know market share or
38:47
where we fit in the world. You know we're still one of the
38:50
last, we're probably one of the last closely held companies that
38:54
are still family owned. There are corporate, you know,
38:59
so there's a couple things one. Yes, of course.
39:02
We want to be good stewards with everything.
39:05
Interestingly, we have, you know, Our larger Roasters
39:10
require, you know, smoke and few mitigation, and we've always had
39:15
an afterburner on our 12 kilo since the very beginning that
39:20
you back in the early 90s that was capable of basically using a
39:26
smaller incinerator to incinerate the smoke and fumes
39:30
that came off The Roaster. And then in the exhaust that
39:34
came off the incinerator from the basically, The incinerating
39:39
the smoke and fumes from this from the hot air we basically
39:44
repurpose that heat. We used that heat to mitigate
39:49
the smoke and fumes of came off the cooling air, the cooling air
39:53
would obviously that air is drawn from the environment and
39:59
cold through the beans to help cool them.
40:01
As soon as the roasting process is done, so that you can well,
40:05
for lack of a better term lock in the flavors.
40:08
You know, they keep their coffee from continuing to roast in your
40:12
cooling tray but, you know, you're still pulling a lot of
40:15
steam, the fumes of The Roaster still coming off of there.
40:19
Still smoke from the beans is, especially at the beginning of
40:23
the cooling cycle and so, but introducing that heat into the
40:29
hot air stream after the afterburner that hot air will
40:33
incinerate all that cooling air. And so we have a smaller
40:37
afterburner. That's About one-third the size
40:40
but it would need to be if it took both are streams and ran
40:45
them through together before the afterburner where actually we
40:49
want run a single Air Stream through the afterburner.
40:53
And then we use that exhaust heat to mitigate the Airstream
40:58
from the second. And so we've always kind of
41:02
been, you know, environmental before before it became a thing.
41:07
We just Always wanted to do that.
41:10
Could because it would save energy.
41:12
Yeah, well, I mean, we had the gas crisis back in the 70s and
41:16
that kind of thing. So, you know, saving on fossil
41:20
fuels has always been kind of in the mindset there.
41:25
So we've always kind of mitigated that there are other
41:28
devices, nowadays that can help mitigate.
41:32
It doesn't mitigate 100% like thermal oxidizer will or what is
41:38
known? The new streets and after work
41:40
but they do they do really well in Medicaid and water.
41:44
Scrubbers is company called Vortex that.
41:47
Does that other or electrostatic devices that will basically
41:53
Zapped a smoke particulates out of the air stream, they don't
41:57
do. So great on the vocs, the
41:59
volatile organic compounds to Smells the fumes, but again,
42:03
there's a lot of different other devices now that didn't exist
42:06
before. I was just going to say just
42:09
listening to you talk about this in some of the science and some
42:12
of that technical stuff goes right over my head.
42:14
But I've always kind of felt that in a lot of ways.
42:18
Thinking ahead, environmentally friendly, or whatever you want
42:21
to call it, concerning yourself, about things like climate
42:24
change, even if you don't believe in that or you don't buy
42:28
into that, or that's not something you care about, it,
42:31
seems to lean towards good business, to be aware of, you
42:34
know, I'm going to make my product use less energy than
42:36
more, or I'm going to, I'm going to invest.
42:38
Things that make things more efficient, you mentioned early
42:41
in this, in that last answer that you're one of the last
42:44
family-owned companies and you you talked earlier earlier about
42:49
you had three kids that are college graduates and
42:51
successful. And and you also mentioned I'm
42:54
bringing a lot of this all around here near the end about
42:56
how you as a entrepreneur one to leave something, a legacy of
43:01
some sort that they could choose to be part of or not.
43:04
I'm wondering if any members of that family have come on board.
43:08
And with you and and are part of this current iteration of of San
43:13
Franciscan. Well being a homeschool dad.
43:16
All at my kids have been involved in the business as soon
43:20
as they were old enough to be involved in the business.
43:23
So yeah, might my three older ones whether they were, you
43:28
know, one of my daughter's is more business finance
43:31
accounting. So she worked a lot in that, you
43:35
know, a couple. Well, two of my sons are
43:37
currently They're working on as an apprentice with one of our
43:41
journeyman Fabricators and, you know, they're learning the crap,
43:45
you know, it would be their shop if you would the equivalent.
43:50
So, their well-being, they're fabricating.
43:52
They're using equipment and in the machine shop and so, they're
43:57
learning. They're learning a valuable
43:59
skill in that regard. As far as, you know, wanting to
44:05
jump in. I would say they're Probably
44:08
also little bit young for that to decide.
44:12
You know I think everyone has an interest here there but you know
44:18
they're pretty early on in their career and part of my thought
44:21
was part of their education to is work for a big company.
44:25
You know, big companies with big budgets that have big budgets to
44:32
to create best practices and then learn big best practices.
44:38
You know, that they can bring back to a small company so that
44:42
we're not among of so to speak. We are a good process with good.
44:49
You know, a good company with good processes and methodologies
44:53
and so on. And so I would say that my
44:56
oldest kids are in that face, you know, where they're, you
45:00
know, they're just into corporate larger companies who
45:04
don't want one is an engineer. When is kind of Be working one
45:09
of the big four accounting firms and no one is getting married
45:13
and so good for her, she's going to get married and that's what
45:17
she wants to do. She wants to get married, the
45:19
Imam and more power to her and then I still have three that are
45:25
still not in college but you know they're thinking about it,
45:29
you know, they they know that that opportunity exists in so it
45:35
turns into a legacy thing for them to step in.
45:38
Into it will. And by the time they graduate,
45:41
you know, who knows what the if you older kids will want to
45:44
either stay in a corporate field or if they want to do something
45:47
on a nice thing about an Enterprise like this and
45:51
Manufacturing. Its you do have a lot of
45:53
different Skill sets necessary to make the entire team work.
46:00
And so their interests they won't have to deny their
46:03
interests, engineering accounting, Marketing sales, all
46:09
those kinds of things. I have two brothers and I think
46:14
we grew up in the restaurant industry with our family.
46:18
And I think we all at some point said, well we're going to get
46:21
the hell out of here and go off into the world and I always
46:26
believed, I'd go out into the world and get a real job and not
46:29
work in that industry again and somewhere along the line.
46:33
I I came back and read to it to the restaurant industry not
46:38
working necessarily with my, with the family.
46:40
They weren't in that anymore. But all of those skills, I
46:43
learned as a kid came back around as an entrepreneur and
46:45
all in the things that I've done.
46:46
And now, my two brothers and I, we all all three of us are
46:50
entrepreneurs. We all own our own businesses
46:52
and we've all kind of put one foot. to that world and then
46:56
came back and I can't say as to why that is not certainly not
46:59
everyone does that but I think there's an interesting There's,
47:04
we talked about belief earlier, I saw my parents do it, and I
47:08
know how hard it was. I know what it felt like when
47:12
things were tight and I still have this desire to try to do it
47:16
myself, and I've been through a big entrepreneurial failure and
47:21
it's, it was it was hard and it was scary and certainly has made
47:25
me hesitate a few times, but I also know the reward of that
47:31
feeling when I leave at the end of it at the end.
47:33
Of the day I don't ever leave. I'm always at work but yes, but
47:38
I know what that feeling is like when I've done something that
47:40
I'm proud of and it's selfishly, it's mine.
47:45
I did that and I can leave that behind and feel good about it.
47:49
I've taken you. Well, beyond the time that I
47:51
told you, we were going to I was going to steal you from your
47:54
world. I would be remiss though.
47:56
If I didn't ask you, if you didn't have a piece of advice
47:59
for an entrepreneur, someone like myself or anyone listening
48:03
A lesson that you've kind of taken with you over the last 15,
48:06
16 years that or you've acquired moving forward, you know, what
48:11
advice would you give to someone who is in the position?
48:13
You were 15 years ago? I would say, you know, it
48:18
doesn't really matter what you go into actually doesn't really
48:22
matter. If you have an actual passion
48:24
for something, you know, that's kind of like the coffee thing
48:27
for me. I would say though that, if
48:29
that's what you want to do seek counsel and jump in.
48:34
Now I saw cancel and enrollment only don't go into manufacturing
48:38
because all manufacturing has gone off exceeds.
48:40
I kind of resist that and fucked against it and you know, It's
48:47
working, and because I do know that people seek Valium.
48:51
The other thing I would say is that whatever you do, you're
48:54
going to create something that value is going to be recognized
48:57
by your client, and you need to be able to communicate that
49:00
value because people will part with their money if they see the
49:06
value. Whatever it is, if you charge
49:08
more than somebody else, but they think that XY and z or
49:12
pretty much, you know, there's no difference between X Y and Z
49:15
and you have Z in the prices much money, then they'll choose
49:19
X and Y. If they choose Z, though, is
49:22
because he portrays themselves as not equal to X and Y, but the
49:29
the value is there. So you have to learn how to
49:31
communicate the value. Be careful on your pricing.
49:36
Don't go to cheat though, because people if you charge to
49:40
a, if you don't charge enough, sometimes people won't buy
49:44
because they think it's cheap. But part of pricing is, is your
49:49
communication of value to. But obviously, you see, you
49:52
don't want to overcharge either or you'll price yourself out of
49:56
the market and then grit determination, you know,
50:00
persevere persevere persevere. At like like the Rancher said,
50:06
you know, you have two choices, get it done, or get it done and
50:11
you kind of have to have that mindset and don't be afraid.
50:17
All Good Things honestly I'm getting way more out of this
50:19
than you are today. I can tell you that.
50:22
Did we miss anything that you want people to know about your
50:25
company about you about what, you know what you've been
50:27
accomplishing? Is there something I should ask
50:30
that I didn't Well, I could totally go into a sales pitch
50:34
but I don't really want to do that.
50:36
I think people people do, who are serious about being an
50:40
entrepreneurial, do a lot of research naturally, it's going
50:44
to be hard work, regardless, but yet, hey, I would, I would
50:50
prefer that you talked to all of our competitors, you know, as
50:56
long as you include as some one of those because we may not be
50:59
your best choice. Okay.
51:01
And we we may we may be your best choice but you don't have
51:06
the capital, you know, so you know, let us help you find
51:10
something else or different at the end of the day, you know?
51:15
It's it's I can walk away from a client, you know?
51:19
And honestly tell them maybe we're not the best choice for
51:24
you. Just as easily as a client can
51:26
walk away from us too. And I think that's some an
51:29
important balance its you're making the shell vulnerable.
51:33
But the client needs to know that I'm not going to sell
51:35
something and manipulate them at all cost.
51:38
I think it's important to treat people as you know, honor people
51:44
and honor their choices and I think that honor will be
51:47
returned back to you if you do it that way.
51:51
And that said I'm not going to go into my pitch, I'm going to
51:55
let you let Let The Listener. You know, if you have an
51:58
interesting coffee roasting now, give us shot talk to us and then
52:04
talk to everybody else. Not everybody but you know, the
52:06
people in, you know, who the good brands are and you know who
52:10
the cheap brands are I would say avoid the cheap ranch.
52:15
You're always going to get what you pay for, and if you don't
52:18
pay for it, now you're going to be paying for it.
52:21
Continually you just, you just are throughout the life of that
52:25
piece of equipment, I would encourage you, whatever brand.
52:29
You go with, go to good brand, brand Scott, a great reputation
52:34
and a brand is going to be roast robust enough to grow with you
52:37
for a lifetime, and I'll leave it at that.
52:41
Alright, then the last question that I have asked all except for
52:45
one guest who had just forgotten, I regret it every
52:48
day. If you were to go down the
52:51
street and stop and do a coffee roaster, what do you order to
52:54
drink? Oh, what'd I order?
52:58
And I'm pretty. Plain, I order what everybody
53:02
else orders, what the majority and it's just a straight cup of
53:05
coffee and I do like what I said before.
53:09
I give it the analysis. Yeah, I'm not.
53:11
Q graders. So, I, you know, I know how to
53:14
grade copies and all that, and I just have to.
53:18
I just have to put myself through that experience, and
53:21
it's the most common experience that that Coffee Roastery would
53:26
have their customers. That's what I go for.
53:29
First personally, I just really enjoy The French Press method,
53:37
and the mouth feel and everything I eat.
53:39
I always leave the mud at the bottom.
53:41
Makeup, but I just have to, I have to me that gives them with
53:48
the broadest experience of that cup.
53:51
And so, we're on the same page there.
53:54
I always espouse My Love For The French Press on the show.
53:58
Bill, thank you so much for spending an hour with me and
54:02
talking about about you and about your company.
54:05
And I'm grateful for all the thoughts and advice that you
54:08
gave. Well, this has been a delightful
54:11
experience Ryan and I guess everybody likes to talk about
54:14
themselves anyway that you just don't do it that often and so
54:17
it's refreshing. But it also I think in the
54:21
reminiscing you you look back and you get that sense of
54:26
satisfaction in knowing that you have been through these really
54:29
hard times. I am at where I'm at.
54:31
I'm in this hard time and I'm in this good time but life is good
54:36
and I like where I'm at and thank you for letting me talk
54:42
through that. Well I only did it because I
54:45
assume you're going to call me tomorrow and ask about me, you
54:49
know what? Yeah, I will start a podcast.
54:52
I'll call it the other wildlife. Okay, to recap, I told you there
55:07
was a lot of poignant advice coming from build side of the
55:09
conversation. I'll share a lot of it on roast
55:11
westcoast.com but I can't wait to reshare one piece of advice
55:15
that he had for entrepreneurs and I'm paraphrasing here but
55:20
Bill said in order to make it you need to make sure you
55:22
believe in what you're doing. Have grit perseverance and
55:26
endurance it might sound Really simple when I repeat it but that
55:30
doesn't mean it doesn't help to hear it over and over again.
55:33
I know it made an impact on me. I'm going through the
55:35
entrepreneurial Journey right now.
55:37
With this podcast, despite the name.
55:40
San Franciscan roaster company is based in Carson City.
55:42
Nevada Bill moved his family near their after purchasing the
55:46
company from the original owner who was planning on just
55:49
shutting it down. This was in 2008.
55:51
If you were adulting back, then you might remember, it was a
55:54
fairly hectic economic moment. The The purchase San, Franciscan
55:58
roaster company was an All or Nothing proposition for Bill's
56:02
family. It was also a big change for
56:04
Bill who had been in the education field.
56:06
It was a decision fraught with risk but at its core, it was an
56:10
opportunity to work in coffee which had become a Pursuit.
56:13
He couldn't ignore. Things have worked out in part
56:17
because San Franciscan is actively working to make really
56:20
durable effective and attractive coffee.
56:22
Roasting machines. The kind of machines that
56:25
generate brand, loyalty and Advocates it.
56:27
Also working in part because to quote, Bill Time, After Time
56:31
things happened, just at the right time, there can be
56:34
multiple approaches to art. That is successful in the same
56:37
way that there can be multiple approaches to roasting coffee.
56:40
Whoever is roasting is doing so in their own unique yet.
56:43
Excellent way bill. And the team at sfr, are
56:46
striving to be the tool that gets them there.
56:48
No other interviewee on this show has referenced the art of
56:51
Monet or Van, Gogh, when trying to explain, where they fit into
56:55
the long lineage of coffee. Neither of those artists became
56:59
famous painters without the cave painters of the Paleolithic Era.
57:02
Roughly 3 million years ago who assembled the first rudimentary
57:06
tools designed to transfer red and yellow clay to the stone
57:09
walls of their homes. Finally.
57:12
And because I can only hear it in the iconic voice of Wilford
57:15
Brimley guest starring as the Postmaster General, Henry Atkins
57:18
on Seinfeld, you either get it done or you get it done.
57:24
Kramer. I've been reading some of your
57:26
material here. I got to be honest with you,
57:30
make a pretty strong case. I mean just imagine an army of
57:35
men and wool pants run through the neighborhood handing out.
57:39
Pottery catalogs. Door-to-door well, it's my job.
57:48
I'm pretty damn serious about it.
57:50
In addition to being a postmaster.
57:54
I'm a general, and we both know, It's the job of a general to by
58:00
God get things done. That is the bottom line in the
58:05
life of all entrepreneurs. How you get, there is up to you
58:11
head to San Fran roaster.com to learn more about the company.
58:14
And follow at San Fran, roaster on Instagram to see their posts
58:17
and reposts from Roasters. Like this Show sponsored ignite
58:21
Coffee Company of San Franciscan, roasting machines in
58:24
action. I have to admit, I love the look
58:27
of the SF ours. If you're enjoying this podcast,
58:30
you can also follow at roast, West Coast though.
58:34
Be honest, you'll see more cool coffee content, learn more and
58:38
have a chance to be inspired by entrepreneurs.
58:40
If you had to roast westcoast.com and subscribe to
58:43
this shows newsletter, if the headlines are to be believed, it
58:47
may be one of the few newsletters left that isn't
58:50
written by an AI Bots. I'm not saying it's as good as a
58:53
Bots, but I do write it myself, just kidding about the good
58:56
part, it's so much better than a box of do if you're listening on
58:59
Spotify or apple or one of the other gazillion podcast
59:02
platforms. You can find all the The links I
59:04
referenced in this shows, podcast notes, and if you're
59:07
listening and looking for coffee education, check out our other
59:10
podcast coffee smarter, it's specifically designed to improve
59:13
your at-home coffee, brewing skills, and to encourage you to
59:16
appreciate your going out to the cafe experience.
59:20
This show is supported by a Cadre of roast industry Partners
59:23
they are Cafe. Lechera, Camp, Coffee Company,
59:26
coffee cycle, roasting ignite, Coffee Company, Maria coffee,
59:30
first light whiskey, Cape Horn coffee, importers zoom bar.
59:34
TNT Ascend Coffee Roasters, most your coffee company, and
59:38
steady-state coffee. Roasting this episode of the
59:41
roast West Coast coffee. Podcast is was has been written
59:45
produced and recorded by meet Ryan Walt thanks to Bill,
59:48
Kennedy, and Victoria, why Iraq at San Franciscan roaster
59:51
company. I'll look forward to meeting use
59:53
in real life at SCA Portland Booth. 253, to those of you
59:58
listening today, thank you for being here.
1:00:00
I hope this episode is, found you happy healthy and with, at
1:00:03
least a threat. Of Sanity enabling you to make
1:00:06
it through the day, always tip your Baristas and be sure to
1:00:09
drink a coffee. This podcast is supported by
1:00:44
coffee cycle, roasting in Pacific Beach, San Diego, where
1:00:48
they love to things, making great coffee for you and riding
1:00:52
bicycles. Oh, and dogs and vegan pastries.
1:00:56
So four things at Coffee cycle, they love those four things.
1:01:01
But also seeing the smiling faces of their neighbors,
1:01:04
uplifting, local artists, and creating a welcoming space for
1:01:08
everyone. In to get a coffee or a tea that
1:01:10
was truly crafted and cared for. So those seven things only those
1:01:16
seven things, and well, they also love sharing coffee
1:01:22
education and talking about books and going on group bike.
1:01:25
Rides, a big hills and cruising along the beaches, and this is
1:01:30
getting ridiculous. Add coffee cycle.
1:01:32
They love coffee and they love making people happy.
1:01:36
Everything fits into those two buckets.
1:01:38
If you love them back and you love the best coffee ever,
1:01:42
subscribe to one of their monthly coffee subscriptions, on
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coffee cycle, roasting.com house, roasts single origin and
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bulk offerings are available because they want to make sure
1:01:52
you're never short on coffee, subscribe or make a one-time
1:01:56
coffee order at Coffee cycle roasting.com.