Latest / Hook,Line,&SinkHer / Season 1 Episode 8 Tackle Box Troubles: Organization Systems That Stick

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Season 1 Episode 8 Tackle Box Troubles: Organization Systems That Stick · Hook,Line,&SinkHer

• Jayson St.Croix: Welcome back to Hook, Line, & SinkHer Her, the podcast where we cast out big questions, real and honest conversations, and occasionally get distracted by whatever shiny object just floated by. I'm Jayson,, and joining me, as always, is Dr. Amy St. Croix. Welcome. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Good morning. How are you doing? Jayson St.Croix: I'm doing well. Before we get started with today's topic, I got a question for you. Okay? Before we even get started. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Before we even get started? Whew. I don't know if I was ready for this. Jayson St.Croix: I know you're busy and you have busy weeks and this week wasn't as rough as the previous week, but have you been watching our social media? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I feel like this is a trick question. Jayson St.Croix: You know, this is our eighth episode, correct? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Jayson St.Croix: Took us like five or six to get a hundred followers on our Facebook page. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I did see that. I did see that. Yep, that was super cool. Jayson St.Croix: Well, in the past week we got 80 more. So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Nice. Jayson St.Croix: I got more good news for you. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: You do? Jayson St.Croix: I do. I also have an SEO search engine for our podcast. And On the Apple podcast for the hashtag productivity hacks, we came in at number 36. And for the ADHD parenting, we're at number 48 for the search engine for Hook, Line, & SinkHer So we're making progress there. And I Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Nice. Nice, nice, nice. Jayson St.Croix: and on Spotify, we came in at number 23 in the past 30 days for neurodivergent empowerment and number 29 for IEPs. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I just, you know, it's just wonderful because it kind of reiterates exactly why we wanted to do this was just to be able to share and get knowledge out and you know, really be able to bring awareness to the fact that, you can have a diagnosis of ADHD. You can be neurodivergent and you're probably pretty awesome. There's some, you know, tips and tricks that need to come along the way, and you know, potentially some supports in place, but at the end of the day, I love that we're being able to share this with people because that that was the whole reason that we kind of came up with this. Jayson St.Croix: Right. And I think a lot of people know us and we keep it real. They're honest conversations, the people that know us, they know. And these we're just everyday folk, right? Having these conversations, sharing our experience. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yeah, we're just we're a hoot. That's right, we're a hoot. Jayson St.Croix: All right. So keep up the good work. That's what I wanna tell you. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well thank you. Thank you. Jayson St.Croix: Okay, last time we talked about keeping the boat steady as a parent. Today we're gonna open the tackle box. Picture a well-organized tackle box. Every lure has its own slot, every hook is in its own tray. You can find exactly what you need in seconds. Now picture the one a lot of us actually have. Everything getting tossed in together, hooks tangled around lures, and a mystery item at the bottom that nobody remembers buying. All I can envision is our son's boat, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Or or yeah, or his truck, one or the other. Jayson St.Croix: Today's episode is all about organization and specifically how to build systems that stick for brains that don't always love systems. Not color-coded perfection, just something that survives past the first week. Dr. St. Croix, let's start with the part everyone knows too well. We find a brand new system, we get really excited, we get it all set up, and two weeks later, it's in the graveyard with all the others. What's going on there? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: There's a lot of pieces that go on with that. I think it's understanding how the ADHD brain works and the fact that w we we love dopamine, right? Like we're looking for dopamine fixes. So one of the things that happens is it becomes stagnant to us. So a couple of weeks go by and and it doesn't hold that excitement anymore because it doesn't give you that dopamine rush. And the other piece of it is is that life happens. So families get super, super busy and they forget to, you know, put the sticker on the chart or they forget to purchase the reward. because they're busy and they're gonna get to it, but then they don't. And then it doesn't have that follow through. So, and I think that even happens in classrooms too, you know. We always have such great classroom management strategies. I know the Book fill fill your bucket, right? That's a big one that a lot of teachers will use. and it's w it's awesome. I I I absolutely love it. It's awesome. but if you get going in the day-to-day and you forget to add whatever you've, you know, organi organized to add to the buckets, it it loses its luster because it it's not fulfilling what you meant it to fulfill, right? So I think there's lots of reasons that they fall short. I think it's just, you know, being Consistent, and one of the things that I do here at the firm when we develop these types of systems for parents is you have to in the very beginning of time, everything has to be based on really short increments. So you can't put a system in place. I'm I'm using this as an example. Let's just say, like behavioral, or you know, maybe like a nighttime routine or a morning routine. I would never come. bind those together in one system for a child because they have to, you know, get all of the pieces in the morning, wait their entire day, and then try to get the pieces in the afternoon based on that system or in the evening. it's it's just too much. We need that instant dopamine hit when when when we do what we do. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, you you can you kinda mentioned that last week in our episode of parenting with ADHD. start in small increments, don't try to tackle the whole mountain at once. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. So the one that I just did for a family, we actually have a nighttime routine, and the nighttime routine is broken actually into three sections that they can earn a positive reinforcement for. And then each of those three sections has a very specific bulleted task that has to be achieved. So it's been chunked and it's explicit instruction. So that really allows it to stay along a little bit longer because you have that buy-in. Because a kiddo, you know, might be able to earn a positive reinforcement in the first, you know, task or first set of chunk, the first chunk, but they might not in the second, but they can pull it together again in the third. versus these big long ones And then, you know, when you don't reach a you know, you don't reach a task or complete a task, then you're kind of like, why bother? I can't I can't get anything out of it anyway, right? and I also think the other part of it is that those external Reinforcements. So the cheerleaders that are in your family and are like, my gosh, I can't believe that you were able to do this today. This is amazing. I'm so proud of you. I can't even imagine what this is gonna look like tomorrow, right? Because then you want to do it. So it's about buy-in, you know. There's a few things that are going on when we drop those, but they're definitely, you know, that consistent, that buy-in, and you know, those dopamine hits. Jayson St.Croix: Well, let's talk about families. since you brought it up. What do you see in the families, the students and the professionals that you work with ta being those cheerleaders for those children who you are developing those routines for? And is there anything that you would like to share without getting too specific? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, I just think that, you know, when we lose That positive reinforcement from our cheerleaders. It's never because they're not proud of us, or it's never because, you know, they don't care or any of those things. Life happens. And that's what people need to realize. Life happens. So if we're talking about a classroom, for example, maybe you have all intentions of specifically, you know, mentioning something to a particular child that day, and then, there's a fight right before your class, you have to deal with that. It ends up, you know. Starting things late, you're now behind in your lesson plans, you before the bell rings, you want to at least get something. It just so it's it's life happens. You know, the same thing happens with parents. So you and I can relate to this. We've set up so many systems for our kids over the years, but as they got older and their ice slots changed, and we were no longer getting home at five thirty or even at six thirty, and the ice slots got later and later and later. And you know, we were getting home at at 10:45 at 11:45 at night, we just were not thinking about whatever system we had in place. We were in survival mode at that point to get everybody to bed so that we could attempt to have a successful morning the next morning. and they were always hungry, obviously, coming off the ice. So trying to feed them within this situation as well. So I really think it's about life, you know. So if you can make it a habit that It's not something necessarily that's planned, but it's habitual. I think that really makes it easier to kind of get it in there. I also think it it it really teaches us a really great adult lesson, right? Like we should really be each other's cheerleaders. You you should not be degrading each other because someone's trying something new, or because someone's more successful than you are at this moment in time, or because someone's friends with someone that you don't like, or you know, all of those things. I really think there's a great adult lesson in that too of just being each other's cheerleaders. Jayson St.Croix: totally agree and I don't want to digress and move away from this topic, but there was a famous figure skater analogy that I use all the time that sometimes we kneecap each other in the professional world to bring people down to our levels instead of pushing ourselves to up to be better to their levels. And I think it it stinks. we Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: should we should be more cheerleaders and less kneecappers. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, and it's it's not just with kids, right? Because let's think about the workplace. you know, I think about the workplace that I'm currently in charge of. There's a whole lot of cheerleading going on over here. I just every single thing that happens, I just blow it out of the water because I really feel like that's how I'm able to get the most productivity out of those that work with and for us. So Yeah, I mean I I love, I absolutely love Rita Pearson. And and she had this quote that was, kids don't learn from people they don't like. and that just you can apply that to anything. And you know, if you're a cheerleader, you just you got more productivity. Jayson St.Croix: So is it the system that fails or is it the way that we set it up? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Both. Both. So the system can fail if we don't set it up properly for who we want it to work for. So you know, I wouldn't set up a system, let's just say for our firm, for example, in the same way that I would set up a system for a child that I was trying to you know a achieve homework with as the same as an employee that that we would have. those would all be different systems. Jayson St.Croix: Do you think out of sight, out of mind plays into this? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yes, absa stinkin'lutely. And you know what? That's why Digital organization is so difficult for me because it's not in my face. And I think that is also why the whiteboard system that we've talked about in the past really works for me. but I was just talking with an individual who supports our LinkedIn or my LinkedIn, and one of the things that we talked about was professional ADHD hacks. So if you're an adult listening to this, Head over to our link my LinkedIn page because I believe that there's a post that's coming out on professional hacks. And one of the things that I talk about is how for me, it's not print or digital. It's print and digital. Because digital is great when I'm out and about, you know, within companies, within firms, within school districts, all those kinds of places. I can have it at my fingertips really quickly. Which is what I need. But that in your face comes in to ensure that things get done and I know what appointments are coming up and those kinds of things. So even though, like for a calendar, I have a digital calendar on my phone, obviously on my comp my computer. But right now I have a it starts at seven in the morning and goes every half an hour through till I think seven or eight at night. Paper old school planner sitting on my desk. I use them both all the time, every single day. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, I'd like you to table that for a second because I got some questions about that coming up in a little bit. I think a lot of listeners are gonna feel relieved hearing this. A system falling apart doesn't mean that you failed. It just means the system wasn't built for the way your brain works. And I can think of a lot of the systems that we use growing up with our children. I remember the bucket filler when we lived in our first house. We had the buckets right above their little coat stations and they had little marbles. And we tried to do the bucket filler. and then we incentivized, I think it was screen time when we moved to our next house. yeah, I remember a couple of the systems. I don't think we ever did the sticker system, did we? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No. Our kids weren't big sticker people, but but but there are, right? One of the things that's really funny right now, our kids never bought into this ever, ever, ever. But as I'm building some of these things and working with families and strategies and those kinds of things, we do a lot of Pokemon. A lot Pokemon. That is a really big thing for a lot of kids. And an age span. I mean, like, I'm talking like six, seven-year-olds to like 14-year-olds. It's a big age span for kids. So yeah, it's just whatever your kiddo likes. And the other part you have to understand is they're constantly growing and they're constantly changing. So if you have, you know, I'm just using Pokemon as an example, if that is some type of incentive that that you're utilizing, it might not work in six weeks. It might not work in 12 weeks because it's no longer the carrot. It's no longer the dopamine hit, right? So you you sometimes it's not forever. A system's not forever. It has to have that flexibility. if it's completely rigid with a neurodivergent brain, that is when it's gonna fail. Jayson St.Croix: Gotcha. So what does a system look like when it actually works for that ADHD brain? Is there a common thread? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, you know, I I I think flexibility is a common thread, right? Because we don't know. We you know it it depends on the day, right? So I think flexibility is is important. But essentially what happens is is, you know, the individual can reach the goal that the system was put in place for. It it doesn't matter if it's in the workplace, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, in a classroom or you know, in a workplace, it could simply be something like, you know, achieving a task or tasks within a project and you know in a classroom it it can be behavioral we do a lot of behavioral plans and then you know at home it at home it's usually about completing some type of task that we want our kids to do right clean their room do your homework brush teeth get ready for school that that kind of thing. Jayson St.Croix: Without going into too much detail about your favorite piece of office equipment, how important is it to keep things visible instead of tucked away? 'Cause we talked about out of sight, out of mind d just a few minutes ago. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, same question. Super important, right? Jayson St.Croix: And where do you see yours visible? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: My whiteboard. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And I think you can probably just take your computer and just turn it a little bit and they won't be able to see what's actually on it. But you can show them how in your face it is every day when you're working at your desk. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: this way, sorry. Jayson St.Croix: Boom. There it is. Right in her face. Every single day. All right, turn it back. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I love it. I love everything about it. And then there's a calendar for a specific school that we work with. and it's everything from September till July. That we and they are responsible for, and it's there. And it's really funny because that system really works for me because I'm able to, they're on Velcro tabs on the back of my door. So I'm able to just the other day I was having a one-on-one coaching session with one of their teachers, and we were I was teaching them how to input progress monitoring data into the software program that the school uses and The teacher said to me, do you know? I go, those are coming up in in a week or two. Let's go over that. And she's like, shoot, do you know the date on that? And I was like, I do. So I came in here. I literally just pulled down the November calendar off the the Velcro, brought it into the conference room with me. We used it, we went through it, everything was on there, and then I brought it back in when I was done and popped it back on the wall. It's a great system. that school's master schedule is the other thing that's up there. So when I go into classrooms and I'm doing observations and I'm visiting and you know helping with lessons and all of those kinds of things, I just have the master schedule and I can check and see when I want to visit, plan it out on my calendar, and then when I leave the office, I just pull that right off the wall and take it with me and then boop, put it right back up with the Volcro tabs. Jayson St.Croix: That is definitely not out of sight, out of mind. That is in your face. All right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: So I got a good one for it. And if you don't give them the answer that I want them to hear, I'm going to embarrass you. So what does one home for every item look like in real life? Think about this one. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well, you you're not gonna purchase it if it doesn't have a home. Jayson St.Croix: Mm-hmm, that's true. That's not what I'm thinking about. Go ahead. No? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: that's not the one you're thinking about? I I won't let him purchase anything for our home that doesn't have a place before we leave the store. So Jayson St.Croix: That's part that's part of your system. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: yeah, part of my system. but the I mean if we're talking about like things, I mean, is that what you're kind of asking me? Is the systems Jayson St.Croix: Sure. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: for things? Jayson St.Croix: Sure. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I can you my keys are a perfect example. My keys go in the exact same place every single day. and and I don't mean like, you know what I'm done at the end of the day? I mean every single time. You put possessions in the exact same spaces all the time. And l like the the keys are kind of the craziest, but it just works so well for me. So we have a set of keys for the office. They obviously open the office, but they do they all they open other things that we need here in the workspace, right? Including the restroom. So what happens is is I leave them on our entrance shelf. And when I leave to use the restroom or to go, you know, empty the trash or whatever I happen to be doing, I take them with me. And then when I come back, they do not get put in my bag. I mean, it doesn't matter what time of day it is, what we're doing, they go back on that shelf. and if somebody else needs them and they use them and they don't put them back on the shelf, it's not a good day. Jayson St.Croix: Yep. And again, I do not have ADHD DHD. I'm not being an imposter, but even at home, we'd keep our keys in the same place to help with that. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Jayson St.Croix: Right. true or false. In the kitchen, do you have two separate drawers for utensils? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That is true. That is true. Jayson St.Croix: And what what goes in one drawer and what goes in the other drawer? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well technically there's three drawers, right? Jayson St.Croix: Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: The utensils that we use for baking, such as like rubber spatulas or you know, like you would ice a cake with, those kinds of things. Those are in one drawer. And then in the middle drawer is things like a a a slotted spoon, or or a like a big spoon, right, that you would use, but they're all black. Jayson St.Croix: Or black handles. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Or black handles, right. They they have they have some type of black color to them. And and of course they're all the same kind and they're all the same pattern. That's why they're all the same color. But and then in the third drawer are like the things like the beaters to the mixer. you know Jayson St.Croix: Measuring cups, measuring spoons. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Measuring cups. Right, right, right, right. now I know people are gonna say, Whoa, whoa, isn't measuring cups part of the baking? But it's not because it's not. I don't know why, but in my brain it's just not. because you could use them for things that aren't baking, right? Like like the teaspoons and things like that, like you use them for like garlic and stuff like that. I think like the lemon press is in that that one. So yeah, yeah, everything's got its place. Jayson St.Croix: If you're not sure what's in it, you could spend more time in the kitchen and acquaint yourself with the drawers. Okay. But Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I don't think that's necessary, but thank you for the offer. Jayson St.Croix: you we do make fun of you because you do have a black handle drawer. We Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Hmm? Jayson St.Croix: know that's where all the black and that system works for you. And we have all gotten used to doing it. So we just keep it now because it it works. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: All right. We talked about this a little bit in the last episode as well. Keep referring back to parenting ADHD with ADHD. How many steps is too many for a daily habit? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: whatever is too many for the person you're trying to fix the habit for. Jayson St.Croix: I would have to think age would come into this as well. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely, but I mean let's think about IEPs, right? We have kids who have goals on their IEPs that will say you know complete two-step directions with a verbal prompt, and one verbal gesture. Or we'll have an IEP one that'll say, you know, complete one step direction independently, let's say. Because we're working towards that. Age is definitely a factor, but just your executive functioning skills are a huge factor. So I can't I don't think that there's I can't say to you three is too many, five is too many. five, my god, I can't even think about five that makes me but it's just it's really. Really, what works for the individual that it's written for, it might just be one. Jayson St.Croix: We have a college student and right now it's one. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I have an employee right now and it's one. I love her. have to have Jayson St.Croix: Well, that's true. That's true. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: her on here. Jayson St.Croix: we should have her on here. You're right. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: She's she's, you know, not diagnosed with ADHD, but man, she's neurodivergent. Jayson St.Croix: That she is. Why do simple systems tend to outlast complicated ones? I think we probably covered that, right? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. Absolutely. What did you used Jayson St.Croix: Okay. I've heard people Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: to say to me? KISS? Jayson St.Croix: What's that? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: KISS? Remember the acronym? Keep it simple? Silly? Jayson St.Croix: Silly. We use silly now. Right? We don't want to use the other word. Yeah. I've heard people say the best system is the one that takes the fewest steps to use and the fewest steps to put away. Does that match what you kind of see? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, because why would we add stuff that we don't need? Jayson St.Croix: Does make it too complicated, it gives you another Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: shiny object to get distracted. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: That's right. Or or another step could be that breaking step that makes us feel overwhelmed. So you you know, keep it simple. You know, like I said before, keep it chunked. You know that that chunking is such a great strategy in so many aspects with a neurodivergent individual. It doesn't matter if it's, you know, a work project, if it's a a you know, a project at school or an assignment at school, or even just completing tasks at home, chunking is is a great strategy. Jayson St.Croix: Let's talk about the actual tools that you kind of mentioned earlier. The paper planners, the digital calendars, the labels, the bins, the lunch pad, or the keys by the door. I don't want you to answer this yet because I'm gonna ask you a series of rapid-fire questions. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Great. Jayson St.Croix: But what are some of the tools that tend to hold up and what tools tend to flop? So without elaborating too much, I wanna ask you some rapid fire questions. You ready? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Sure. Jayson St.Croix: Paper or digital? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Both. I already told you that. Jayson St.Croix: Which one do you prefer? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Both. Jayson St.Croix: That's not true. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I I prefer paper because I'm I get to use my lucky pencil and it makes me think. But in there in my face. And and for me a strategy is writing. so if I have to write it, I'm more apt to remember it. So paper in itself is not the strategy. It it's the fact that I have to write it down that is the strategy for me. But Jayson St.Croix: So writing it over typing it is better for you. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Writing writing over typing? Absolutely. When you say print or digital, I was thinking like my calendar. Jayson St.Croix: Okay. Colored highlighters, yes or no? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No. Jayson St.Croix: You n not colored highlighters? Okay. What about Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: They schmoosh they schmoosh your pencil. Jayson St.Croix: Okay, what about colored expo markers? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Jayson St.Croix: Hmm. Plain or colored file folders. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Colored. Jayson St.Croix: Hmm, interesting. White or colored binders? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: White Jayson St.Croix: Plain or colored paper clips. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: This one's this one's a personal one. So they have to be colored, but they only are colored because the colored ones are covered in plastic. If they're covered in plastic and they're like all black, when you can buy those, I'm fine with that. It doesn't necessarily the paperclip thing is not about the actual multiple colors. It's about the fact that they're covered in plastic versus like that that plain metal paper clip. Jayson St.Croix: If the colored expo markers work on the whiteboard, correct, for you, Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yep. Yep. Jayson St.Croix: then why pencil versus colored pens? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Because pens are permanent. Jayson St.Croix: Cross them out. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Nope, then you got a crossout. Then that creates a mess. You don't have organization. My brain needs to think. Like, and that when I when I say that, it might think in multiple layers. So, like, even when I write like an article, right, let's say, or a case study, that is actually probably drafted somewhere around four times. So what happens is I write it. And you know, there's a lot of erasing going on and whatever. And then I go back and I I build it. Like I build in details, I build in research, I build and I build it. And then in the end is when I can then be done with it and convert it over to, you know, most of it has to be converted to type, right? Because that's just how we how we do things. So the pencil allows you to have those levels. of analytical thinking for me. Jayson St.Croix: Okay. Can labels, bins, and checklists help without becoming a project or a bone of contention in themselves? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. We have someone that works for us. And on Fridays, I want we try to reset in the office for Monday, right? Because things are just moving at such a fast pace during the week. Sometimes those little things don't get done. And it's silly things like we're out of divider tabs. And then somebody, you know, we get a new client, we go to make a new folder, we don't have divider tabs. So one of the things on that Friday list is like inventory of supplies. What do we need? And it this individual created a one-page sheet that had each one of the tasks for this Friday reset, and then took our logo, and that was the completed piece. And she literally has them on Velcro down at the bottom and she pulls them off and puts them in the checkbox next to the task on a Friday when she completes it. And that keeps her organized. You you asked earlier how do you know that a system is successful? She completes each one of the tasks that to make sure that the reset is successful, but her checklist is not interrupting or bothering anyone. And when you go back to is it great to have it seen? The answer to that is yes. She literally has it taped to the wall right at well, I think it's actually velcroed but it it's connected to the wall right at her right hand. Right where she works, and it's right there for her every Friday. Jayson St.Croix: I think that's an excellent example because that reset piece is important because the mess is going to keep coming back every week. So, what's a realistic way to handle that without giving it giving up on the whole system? Because sometimes there's Fridays where it just might not get done because life happens. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, well, we've built in our Fridays for items like that. So that is yet another strategy that we use here at the firm. So on Fridays, we unless it's something that we can't control, like let's say we have to be in a hearing or we have you know, a a meeting with a law firm and and a client and whatever. But typically we make no outside appointments on Friday afternoons. And that is simply so that we can finish tasks from the week, reset Jayson St.Croix: Get that reset in. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: For the next week, yep. And then we brief and we debrief. So we debrief on the week that we just had and we brief on what's to come. And the reason that we do that is because with neurodivergent brains, you want a forecast. You you don't want those immediate surprises of what's coming at you. So when everyone comes into the firm on Monday morning, they kind of know what to expect for the week to the best of our ability, right? Because there's sometimes we just can't do that. But no, the systems here are very much in place to support success. And one system doesn't do it, it's it's a multitude of systems. So another example that I can give you is a pediatrician's office that we work with. When I, you know, they were talking, they brought us in to do an evaluation and an assessment of because they were struggling with neurodivergent patients. And one of the things that we talked about was not just things like the waiting room, but like the actual system of scheduling appointments for these kids. So in in that particular practice now, if we have a you know, we have a kiddo who really struggles with new environments, you know, a lot of our autistic patients, those kids have a little sticker on the top of their chart. And it'll either be, you know, the lion, the elephant, the fox, whatever room it happens to be, and every single appointment, that kiddo goes to that room. And if it's too much for them, then they have the appointment. in the sensory room. So there's systems that are built in that people don't even see or think about that affect other parts, if if that makes sense. But yeah, that's how we do it here. Every system is built on another for a reason. and that's kind of how we help, you know, medical. Jayson St.Croix: Stay afloat. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah, but that's how we Jayson St.Croix: Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: help medical practices specifically, you know, they know how to medically diagnose, but then how do we put strategies into an actual office, right, that sees patients. So and and they're not all wellness checks, right? Some of them are sick checks. It doesn't it doesn't matter. So yeah, that's it's all about the systems. And then the systems have to support each other. Jayson St.Croix: Let's transition just a little bit. A couple of weeks ago we had our Draw 2 card on here and she would talk about when she was doing her laundry, but she ended up re-grouting her bathroom tile, right? Remember her? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah. Jayson St.Croix: So if someone is listening right now, looking at a pile of papers, maybe a full in box or a closet that they're afraid to open, where do they start? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I'm going to give advice that I don't follow. Okay? So you should start with a task that will give you success quickly. Because then you keep moving, right? Jayson St.Croix: Time out. You actually do follow that advice. You you told us that right at the very beginning when we had Jen O'Malley on here. You do follow that advice. You might not remember that you said it, but when you build a checklist for your whiteboard, what do you always start with? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. If it's if they're all equal, that's true. If Jayson St.Croix: Okay. Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: they're all equal, that is true. I go to the one that I can get the quickest hit off of. Because one that I've already had accomplished, right. Jayson St.Croix: But you always start with one that you already have accomplished so that you can feel a sense of Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: But in my mind, what I'm thinking right now, when you Jayson St.Croix: Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: say you have a huge inbox or you have you know, I'm thinking you've The way you presented the question, I'm thinking that whatever it was, it's now overwhelming for me. Whether it's a huge inbox, an enormous pile of papers, where when I shared with Jen, that was already in an organized system, right? So when you present that question to me, I don't do it like that. I take the task that I literally cannot do, I cannot bring myself to do. It is the most difficult task for me. And that's the task that I do first. So then that anxiousness of still having it over here is gone. And then everything else just rolls through. Because usually when those things build up, it's because there's something that I don't want to do, and that has become the block to everything else. So I know this. Here at the firm and in our house. Accounting is the thing I don't want any part of. I literally will well you know this. I don't get the mail. I don't get the mail. There's no reason for that, those shenanigans. It and the same thing happens here at the firm. I'm like, okay, on Friday, I'm gonna go through, I'll do all of our receipts, I'll double check and make sure all the invoices are through and whatever. Friday comes, I can find every excuse in the book not to do it. And it's not until our accountant comes to me four to six weeks later and is like, you haven't logged into Quick Books in four weeks. Yeah, no kidding. It's Jayson St.Croix: How how can families, classrooms, and workplaces build systems that support different brains instead of expecting one kind of organized brains? And I think this is important because we have a lot of different students in our classroom. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I think you just answered your your your own question, really. Organization is not a single skill, right? It's no single system is going to work for everyone. So, you know, if we're talking about at home, right, you're gonna wanna have, you know, you can have those visuals, you can have those checklists. If we're talking about a classroom, you know, I think a classroom in the workplace are a little bit different than at home, but you can't assume that people possess these skills, right? Because they are skills. They're executive functioning skills. They're not laziness, they're not stupidity. They're not, I don't care, right? They're not negligence, they're executive functioning skills. So you can't assume that someone possesses a skill in the classroom or in the workplace. I mean, you can't do it at home, but we also have to understand moms and dads, right? Moms and dads aren't professionals at teaching executive functioning skills. If you're able to do that, that's super awesome. But I'm talking about in spaces that our expectation is success, right? Or there's going to be an enormous fallout. You're either going to repeat a grade, fail a regents, not graduate, get fired, get demoted. You know, there's a big fallout when you're in the classroom or you're in the workplace. And it's really about understanding that you have to teach the skill before you can assume that someone possesses that skill. I think about right now as a perfect classroom setting. We're working with a preschool, and I hear constantly, up until this year, I would hear, I can't even get them to sit at small group. Or, you know, they're not s they're not even coming to small group because they're wanting to play with other toys throughout the classroom. So the reason that the data coming out of the small group progress and success isn't what we want it to be, is because we can't get children to even participate in the small group. And I say to them, okay, you your kid is three or your kid is four, you're you know, students in your class. How did you start small groups? Well, we used you know, sensory bins for our first small group. And I'm like, nope, nope. You're expecting kids that are three and four years old to have the skill of coming to a small group, regardless if they prefer to sit or stand or whatever they do. Be participating in the activity, listening to some type of direction, having some type of skill. It's either gotta be executive functioning, fine motor, gross motor, whatever, but there's some skill that's being had in a small group. You're asking for transition, you're asking for a transition to the group and then again from the group. I mean, it's just the skills in a small group are so enormous and so multi-layered. And if we don't teach that, How can we expect a three-year-old or a four-year-old to do that? So this year, when we started school, when we taught, when we started small group, we were actually teaching small group. And we started off with really simplistic visuals. The go sign and the stop sign, and what that looks like in how that fits into the classroom and how that fits into the structure. And then, you know, we add it in transitions and we add it in, you know, layer by layer. So by the time we hit November, those kids will possess the skill to be able to participate successfully in small groups. So then we can focus on some academics and some daily living skills. Cause they're preschool, right? They're not, it's not like they're doing Algebra. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, it but actually there's I think there's a correlation between the two because you made me think about this PD D that I attended and it was one of the better ones. You know sometimes the PDs are just you know we attend because we have to attend Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Non engaging. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, and we have to check a box. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Not my PDs, by the way. My PDs, like I have one for how to clean up your inbox. I got the 4D system, the Do it, the Delete it, the Defer, and Delegate it. I can share that next week on the tech tools. But this guy, Gene Tavernetti, and he reminded me of my all-time favorite person to work with, my mentor, my work dad, Faz. Remember Faz? So so Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: How could I forget Fozz? Do you remember Foz? What? Jayson St.Croix: I know you work with all s all ages of the school, but you talk a lot about the preschool and I'm primarily 7-12 twelve. And Gene Tavernetti said to me one time, because it was like having a conversation with Faz, Saint, if you didn't teach it, assume they didn't learn it! So no matter what you do what Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Absolutely. Jayson St.Croix: doesn't matter what grade level it is, if you don't teach it, assume they don't learn it. And it doesn't matter what you're talking about. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: In that Jayson St.Croix: It could be academics, it could be social, it could be gross, it could be whatever skill you're trying to accomplish. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, and that's not just, you know, we talk about classrooms because that's our world, right? Education is our world. But in reality, that's the workplace, too. And I'm reading this amazing book right now. I'm only part way through it, and I'm super excited because I'm actually going to meet the author next week. And it's called Kid Brain CEO Brain. And Sean Kelsey wrote that book. And That's exactly how he found success in building a law firm. And he's not a lawyer. So he's the CEO of a law firm, but he's not a lawyer. So what happened, you know, I'm only partway through the book. Like I said, I'm I'm indulging myself 15 minutes each day. That's sort of like my reward is to is to read this book. Right. Jayson St.Croix: That's your reward. Yep. Yep. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: And one of the things that I've already picked up on is that he is a leader who is not just self-reflective of himself, but how can he teach and provide systems for people that work for and with him so that they can possess the skill so that the whole can be successful. And yeah, that's been a really great read for me, both from a personal perspective and a professional perspective. But I think, you know, when we leave behind the classroom and we think about the workplace, that's really significant in the workplace as well. You cannot assume that people possess a skill. Now, we obviously hire people based on their skills, but when it comes to the systems of a workplace, they're all different. They're all different. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And w we know this from our employee that we have is we it we can't assume that she knows it. And we build her executive functioning list to accomplish the task that we Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: seek her to accomplish. You know what mean? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: All right. So I'd like to circle back to kind of wrap this up before we get into my favorite segment of the week. Okay, when you said no single system works for everyone, I think that piece is very important and that piece matters because we don't need people with ADHD to adapt to every system. Sometimes the systems around us just need to be a little bit more flexible. So the Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: take so the takeaway might be this: pick one trouble spot, build one small system, tweak it, keep what works, get rid of what doesn't. A tackle box doesn't get organized all at once, it gets organized one tray at a time. Would you agree? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I would. And I think that an important piece to add to that is the ability to change it. Change the system. Change what you're doing. If it doesn't work or you're bored of it, change it. And you know, go back to the tackle box scenario. You know, what's in our tackle box during ice fishing season is not the same thing that's in there during bass fishing season, right? So, Jayson St.Croix: That's a great analogy. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: right, I know. Amazing. For a Saturday morning, go figure. But it's it's really about it is okay to change something up or have flexibility if it's not working or the seasons change because that's real life. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And you said it multiple times in this episode, life happens. We all get older, we all learn better ways. There's all better things that y you know, it just be flexible. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Yeah. When I was a principal when I was a principal, I used to, you know, it really genuinely broke my heart when I I hated observing teachers, and it had nothing to do with not wanting to be in their classrooms or not having anything to do, nothing like that. It genuinely broke my heart with the amount of stress that they would consume knowing they had a scheduled APPR evaluation. And I always said, I don't care. Like life happens. If kids aren't getting a lesson or they're not, you know, getting a skill that you're trying to teach. And even though you've given me a lesson plan that has to be this way for 42 minutes of the observation, don't keep going. Stop and alter. Say you have a behavioral issue. Stop, address the issue, and keep moving. And then when I would do post conferences, teachers would say, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. You know, he distracted the whole class. He that is real life, and it is okay. It always broke my heart when they would get so upset because I didn't. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, you helped me through my first 18 years because I never bought into the dog and pony show for the APPR R and the observations. It was come in anytime you want. I don't care. I'm not doing anything different than I normally do every single day. You're gonna see what happens in real life. I I don't do the dog and pony. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, the the only time that I would not have that understanding, compassionate space is when I did get the dog and pony show and I knew it because we'd go in and you know, y someone would say to the class, Hey, you know, let's do the bell ringer and you have a kid that raises their hand and says, where's the bell ringer? And you're like, over on the board, on the sideboard, and they're like, Well, why are we doing that today? You can tell when it's not routine, right? those Jayson St.Croix: Yeah. And you see eight eighteen kids raising their left hand, which means they don't know the answer, but the one kid that raises his right hand, I know I'm gonna call on that kid because he's got Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Jayson St.Croix: because there's teachers that tell their kids to do that. Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Or or this was my all-time favorite one. My favorite one was when there was a kid in the class that answered a question and then a kid next to them said, that's not what we practiced yesterday. Jayson St.Croix: Ooh snap. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. They'd done the and and I don't mean like they weren't practicing the the skill. They did the lesson the day before. Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: Right. Right. Yeah, it was pre rehearsed. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, it was pre-rehearsed. But yeah, APPRs, I I don't want a dog and pony show. I want real life. Life happens and it is okay. Jayson St.Croix: 100 percent. All right, where do you think I'm going with the tangent of the week this week? Any guesses? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I don't know, I have to be honest, I'm not really sure because I haven't felt great this week. You know that, so I've sort of been a little subdued compared to my normal self. Jayson St.Croix: You did, so I had to dig back a little bit. Not too far though. I only dug back to well, you'll see. Before we wrap things up, it's time once again for our tangent of the week. Every episode I try to share one of those moments that perfectly captures the wonderful, under unpredictable nature of ADHD. So, Dr. St.Croix let's talk about last Saturday, shall we? You don't even remember what we did, do you? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I don't No Jayson St.Croix: Okay, so th this'll be a nice flashback for you. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: no, I remember what we did now. Yeah. We went to the Apple Festival. Jayson St.Croix: What do we do? That's correct. We went to the Apple Festival in Lafayette. Apples were baked, fried, grilled, and somehow worked into every food and drink a human could think of. Milkshakes. Yeah, we didn't try that one. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Milkshake Ugh We didn't try those, no. Jayson St.Croix: There were thousands of people, at least ten craft tents, each one roughly the length of a football field. Would you agree? Yeah. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah, they were vendors on both sides. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, and it's great when you go with an a ADHD who has hyper focus. And so we have a system for going through those craft tents. We walk through every single one up the right and we come back down on the right on the other side. We don't stop at each one. We kind of see what's at each one. Sounds simple. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: We peruse. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, we peruse. Sounds simple until your hyper focus kicks in for a air quote quick look at one table that lasts longer than a football TV timeout when I'm watching football on a Sunday. But to be fair, it paid off. We found some decor that you couldn't get at Hobby Lobby, which I know is a big deal in our house. And we also learned that bowl pot holders are a thing now. A potholder Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah. Jayson St.Croix: for a hot bowl while it sits in your lap. I didn't I Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, who knew that? Jayson St.Croix: I had no idea that there was a lap bowl crisis and it was that serious. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, me neither. But man, I bet we saw that at a quarter of the vendors that were there. Would you say that? I mean, it was a lot. Jayson St.Croix: Yeah, that was crazy. But you know us, we're not one to underachieve, we overachieve because one adventure is never enough for us. We followed that up with a trip to Wegmans. We don't Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Ha. Jayson St.Croix: we don't get the options and the choices at Wegmans where we live, so we take advantage of it whenever we have the opportunity. Would you agree? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yes. Jayson St.Croix: And Wegmans is a double challenge for you. You get pulled in by every shiny object, but yet you meticulously work through the entire gluten-free selection. Every shelf, every label. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Heh heh. Jayson St.Croix: But the real moment was at the end, in the make it and take it section, where you build a sesame chicken bowl that you weigh when you check out. Remember that? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Okay, I do remember that. Yes, but that's not entirely accurate, but you do have to weigh it when you check out. But yes, I because I found sesame chicken that was gluten-free. Like you c you can't typically get that, like order Chinese food takeout and get that. Jayson St.Croix: Exactly. You were so excited that they had gluten-free options that you filled that sucker. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yep, I did. Jayson St.Croix: You should have seen the look on your face when it hit the scale. I had to pick your jaw up off the floor. Right? Okay. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Well you did, yes. Jayson St.Croix: But we paid for our little excursion, and honestly, it was a great Saturday. We had a good time. I highly recommend the festival. Although, let the record show it was not a pay week last week. And you know our golden rule in our house, non-pay week. You get a basket, right? And that sesame chicken bowl, that was not basket sized. Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It fit in the basket. Jayson St.Croix: No barely. Tell us, honestly, how close was that to reality and how was last weekend at the Apple Festival in Wegmans? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: Yeah, yeah, it was great. I have to defend myself a little bit, okay? There was a scale. At the end of this, you know, the bar that they have, like a buffet bar. And it says for customer use only. And you're supposed to be able to weigh your products so you can kind of have an idea because it's like $13 or $14 a pound, right? The scale was broken. It wouldn't work. So I didn't know. So I just was like, okay, I'll take like a dinner size helping that you and I can share because it's gluten free. And I was happy as a clam. And When I got to the cash register and it was like 75 pounds of rice and chicken, I was like, what? But the but the scale Jayson St.Croix: we shared that. We Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: was broken. Jayson St.Croix: we shared it for two days. And we I think we we Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: It was good too. Jayson St.Croix: gave some for our daughter to take to work that night, didn't we? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: No, I ate all of that. It was great. Like to find gluten free food like that, woo! That was worth the tangent. Jayson St.Croix: Is is going through Wegmans tough with all the external stimuli and how busy it is for you? Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I don't know if you noticed this. I don't kinda wanna give up my my trick, but I don't know if you've noticed this. But like when we're in a large store, Sam's Club, Walmart, not not typically Target sometimes, but definitely Wegmans, Price Chopper. Do you I I hum inside of my own ears? I mean, maybe you can hear it, I don't know, but in my mind it's in my ears. So that it yes, that is very overstimulating to me. And the way that I get through that is I hum. Like and and that's what I focus on, and then that's what I can hear, not the chaos of everybody else. Jayson St.Croix: Interesting. All right. So that Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: You've never heard me humming? Jayson St.Croix: No, but next time I since you're humming to yourself, I'm just gonna say I asked you if I could put the steak in the basket and that's what we're gonna have for dinner because you didn't hear me and you just w nodded your head because you were humming. So Dr. Amy S. L. St. Croix: I I always wondered if when I hum inside my ears if anyone else can hear it. Jayson St.Croix: Is that like the tree falling in the woods? Anyway, that's a wrap on today's episode of Hook, Line, & SinkHer Her. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, get a hold of us on social media, and share this with someone who has a system graveyard of their own that they would like to share. Next time, we're heading into Fishing for Focus, Technology and ADHD. Is your phone a helpful tool or is it a bottomless rabbit hole? Or somehow both. We'll get into it. So until next time, keep casting, keep learning, and remember, sometimes the best catches happen when you least expect them.