Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / How to Get Over a Broken Heart: What Really Works | Jesse Stanley | Love | E526

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How to Get Over a Broken Heart: What Really Works | Jesse Stanley | Love | E526 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

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Speaker 1: Show notes with links to everything. All right, now, let's
2:31
Speaker 1: get into today's episode.
2:46
Speaker 4: I still think of you every now and then, but
2:50
Speaker 4: I still haven't found no reason for us Tuesday. Friends,
2:54
Speaker 4: Sometimes I want to do you think of me and
2:58
Speaker 4: know you're just as happy as you seem to be.
3:02
Speaker 1: If you or someone you care deeply about is going
3:07
Speaker 1: through a relationship loss, a hard breakup, maybe a divorce,
3:14
Speaker 1: I want you to know that even though it seems
3:17
Speaker 1: like this pain will never end, this is not a
3:22
Speaker 1: life sentence and there is a way through to not
3:29
Speaker 1: just healing, but growth, new opportunities for developments and chance
3:35
Speaker 1: to create a whole new chapter. But only if you
3:39
Speaker 1: have clarity around what to stop doing that.
3:42
Speaker 2: Will always keep you stuck. And you know what I'm
3:45
Speaker 2: talking about.
3:54
Speaker 5: Our bodies are going through a chemical change. There's physiology
3:58
Speaker 5: in a breakup. That's there. You are connected, You were
4:01
Speaker 5: attached to this other person in that detachment process is
4:05
Speaker 5: very important for you to successfully move forward on with
4:08
Speaker 5: your life.
4:09
Speaker 6: Replaying, checking, reaching out, texting, staying in contact. We had
4:14
Speaker 6: to stopped doing those things and instead start doing a
4:19
Speaker 6: new set of things that will begin closing some doors,
4:24
Speaker 6: opening others, and helping us break free.
4:39
Speaker 5: Some breakups really do may make a lot of the
4:41
Speaker 5: same things that we see in like PTSD, just like hypervigilance,
4:46
Speaker 5: these intrusive thoughts, right, all these things, it's like happening
4:48
Speaker 5: if we're having those things and then we oh, let
4:51
Speaker 5: me just go check their Facebook, or let me go
4:53
Speaker 5: check whatever, or let me reread my text message with them,
4:56
Speaker 5: or go look at pictures that we've gotten our albums,
4:58
Speaker 5: and do these things. We're now resetting and two steps forward,
5:02
Speaker 5: one step backing back and forth.
5:04
Speaker 1: My guest today is Jesse Stanley, who is, like me,
5:08
Speaker 1: a licensed Marriage of Family therapist with Growing Self. He
5:12
Speaker 1: is also a board certified coach and has the most beautiful, warm,
5:17
Speaker 1: direct grounding style, especially when emotions get intense.
5:21
Speaker 3: I like me too.
5:22
Speaker 1: He has specialized training and lots of experience in breakup
5:28
Speaker 1: recovery coaching. He and I have co facilitated groups and
5:32
Speaker 1: programs together, and I'm so glad to introduce you to
5:35
Speaker 1: him and share his perspective today.
5:37
Speaker 5: Thanks Jesse, awesome, Thanks for having me. I always love
5:40
Speaker 5: being here on your podcast.
5:42
Speaker 1: We have a good time together on the podcast, but
5:45
Speaker 1: also outside of the podcast. We have been co facilitating
5:49
Speaker 1: our heartbreak recovery intensives here at Growing Self, and that
5:53
Speaker 1: has been such an incredible experience, and so I know
5:56
Speaker 1: that you and I wanted to connect and talk about
5:59
Speaker 1: what really happens inside of that in order to give
6:02
Speaker 1: our listeners some direction on how to use some of
6:06
Speaker 1: these principles to help themselves if they're dealing with us
6:09
Speaker 1: right now.
6:10
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been such an incredible journey, and I feel
6:13
Speaker 5: very honored to actually be part of people's process as
6:16
Speaker 5: they go through that. I know that the groups that
6:19
Speaker 5: we've had the great pleasure of working with have shown
6:22
Speaker 5: such amazing transformation throughout the journey with us, and it's
6:27
Speaker 5: just so great to see people come in from one side,
6:30
Speaker 5: and everybody that comes in is at a different point
6:32
Speaker 5: in their their heartbreak journey. Some people it's fresh, like
6:38
Speaker 5: last week or the other day, and some people they're
6:40
Speaker 5: still kind of wrestling around with it. And for some
6:43
Speaker 5: of these years ago.
6:44
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think eighteen years.
6:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think it really it speaks to as
6:49
Speaker 5: you said, that there are things that we do that
6:51
Speaker 5: can keep us stuck and prevent us from moving forward
6:56
Speaker 5: and kind of getting through that period of time. And
6:59
Speaker 5: if you, if you do it correctly right, you can
7:02
Speaker 5: kind of move forward. I know, I myself have been
7:03
Speaker 5: through heartbreak. I know I myself have done everything wrong
7:09
Speaker 5: that you could possibly do when it comes to heartbreak,
7:11
Speaker 5: you know, and everything, and I strive to kind of
7:16
Speaker 5: do things better and forward. Should I be in that
7:18
Speaker 5: position again, But I think certainly the work I've done
7:20
Speaker 5: with you and educating myself for the last several years
7:23
Speaker 5: on this and becoming like very interested in this topics,
7:26
Speaker 5: so I help that and I get to help other
7:28
Speaker 5: people as well, which is also the best.
7:30
Speaker 1: It's amazing, and I know everybody that we've worked with
7:33
Speaker 1: together absolutely adores you. But I'm so glad you said
7:36
Speaker 1: what you did because I think for me, that is
7:39
Speaker 1: like the headline here and why I wanted to talk
7:43
Speaker 1: about this today is just that first of all message
7:47
Speaker 1: of hope, because I think that people can feel so discouraged,
7:52
Speaker 1: especially if it has been longer like not even months,
7:56
Speaker 1: but a year, two years, five years, ten years, and
7:59
Speaker 1: they still feel so stuck on this past relationship, stuck
8:03
Speaker 1: on an ex, and they legitimately do not know how
8:07
Speaker 1: to get unstuck. And so I just want everybody to
8:09
Speaker 1: hear this, like, even if it has been a while,
8:12
Speaker 1: do not think that this is hopeless, because it's really not.
8:16
Speaker 1: And Jesse and I have seen this over and over again,
8:18
Speaker 1: and we're going to help you understand like why you've
8:21
Speaker 1: been stuck.
8:22
Speaker 2: I want to do differently.
8:24
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think everybody the recovery process of like
8:28
Speaker 5: going through grief and going through heartbreak is not on
8:30
Speaker 5: a specific timeline, and everybody seems to think it is.
8:33
Speaker 5: I hear so often like I should be over this
8:37
Speaker 5: by now, or I should be insert the thing here,
8:41
Speaker 5: because people are like it's been a month, a year,
8:44
Speaker 5: two years, whatever it is. I should be over this
8:47
Speaker 5: by now. It should be in a better place. And
8:48
Speaker 5: everyone's on a different journey. And for some people, yeah,
8:52
Speaker 5: they're going to get they're going to process it and
8:54
Speaker 5: bond and zip off into their future, you know, months afterwards.
8:59
Speaker 5: And for some people it's going to linger longer. And
9:01
Speaker 5: that's okay, and it's normal.
9:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And you're right, I mean, there is this
9:07
Speaker 1: you metabolize these kinds of things, and there are ways
9:13
Speaker 1: of doing that more quickly than others. But I think
9:15
Speaker 1: what we so often see is that a lot of
9:19
Speaker 1: people who are dealing with a broken heart or had
9:22
Speaker 1: a traumatic relationship loss, they're very frequently doing things and
9:28
Speaker 1: they don't even realize that what they're doing is helping
9:31
Speaker 1: to perpetuate that attachment and keep them from moving on.
9:35
Speaker 1: There's just no visibility into it. And so maybe we
9:38
Speaker 1: can even start there, I mean, in your experience as
9:43
Speaker 1: a professional. But I mean, even if you want to
9:45
Speaker 1: share personally, like what do you see as being some
9:48
Speaker 1: of the biggest culprits when people get stuck? And I'm
9:52
Speaker 1: certainly happy to share a person I mean, I've been there.
9:55
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'll say in no particular order, right, but yeah,
9:58
Speaker 5: I look at one of the things I look at it.
10:00
Speaker 5: I call this like the factory accident sign, right, where
10:06
Speaker 5: like you go to a factory, it's like it's been
10:08
Speaker 5: this many days since our last incident, and they have just.
10:10
Speaker 2: Like I don't hang out in factories. I haven't seen
10:12
Speaker 2: that before.
10:13
Speaker 1: But I know you're also you spend a lot of
10:15
Speaker 1: time in the army, and so they probably have many
10:18
Speaker 1: signs Oh yes.
10:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, yes, so there are you going to, like I
10:22
Speaker 5: think a stereotypical factory sign of like it's been this
10:25
Speaker 5: many days since our last incident, right, and they have
10:27
Speaker 5: like a timer. And I think there are things that
10:30
Speaker 5: people do when they're going through heartbreak and a breakup
10:33
Speaker 5: that resets that clock too often. Yeah, like you go back, yeah, right,
10:38
Speaker 5: Like this is the like, Oh, I'm gonna like still
10:41
Speaker 5: be friends with them on social media and occasionally look
10:44
Speaker 5: at what they're posting, right, So I'm checking their Instagram,
10:47
Speaker 5: checking their Facebook, like looking at these things periodically. This
10:50
Speaker 5: could even be the like people who break up and
10:53
Speaker 5: still remain friends. Right. And while I believe that certainly
10:57
Speaker 5: people are capable of being friends with exes and things. Right.
11:00
Speaker 5: I think that usually there is a certain specific about
11:03
Speaker 5: a timing of that. Sometimes there needs to be a
11:05
Speaker 5: break and come back to it later, right. But sometimes
11:08
Speaker 5: people try to go from like yesterday we were engaged
11:11
Speaker 5: and now tomorrow we're just friends and we're gonna hang
11:14
Speaker 5: out and still chat and being part of each other's
11:16
Speaker 5: lives and oh, hey, come over for dinner or something. Right,
11:19
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of things like that that are
11:22
Speaker 5: resetting the clock a lot.
11:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an emotional accident, and now we have to
11:30
Speaker 1: change the numbers on the sign because every time you
11:33
Speaker 1: do those things, No, really, it perpetuates this attachment bond
11:37
Speaker 1: that in reality is really not good for you. I mean,
11:42
Speaker 1: if in fact the relationship is truly unsustainable and there
11:47
Speaker 1: is no future, maintaining that level of attachment is only
11:51
Speaker 1: going to keep you stuck.
11:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, and our bodies are going through I mean, actually
11:56
Speaker 5: like a chemical change, there's physiology in in a breakup.
12:01
Speaker 5: That's there. You were connected, You were attached to this
12:03
Speaker 5: other person, and that detachment process is very important for
12:07
Speaker 5: you to successfully move forward on with your life and
12:10
Speaker 5: inform another relationships with healthy attachment and if you don't
12:15
Speaker 5: allow that process to take place, right, it will keep
12:18
Speaker 5: you stuck. Well, this is what we call the baggage
12:20
Speaker 5: that end up bringing into other relationships. Yeah, and so
12:23
Speaker 5: we want that to happen, and so you will go
12:25
Speaker 5: through actual physical withdrawal, right, there will be I know,
12:29
Speaker 5: like one of the major breakups I went through, there
12:32
Speaker 5: was like months where I literally was having like nightmares
12:35
Speaker 5: every single night. And I think a lot of the
12:38
Speaker 5: some breakups really do may make a lot of the
12:40
Speaker 5: same things that we see in like PTSD and write
12:44
Speaker 5: this like hypervigilance, these intrusive thoughts, right, all these things
12:47
Speaker 5: like happening to people and unfortunately, right like if we're
12:51
Speaker 5: having those things and then we oh, let me just
12:53
Speaker 5: go check their Facebook or let me go check whatever,
12:55
Speaker 5: or let me reread my text messages with them, or
12:58
Speaker 5: go look at pictures that we've got in our albums
13:00
Speaker 5: and do these things. We're now like kind of resetting
13:03
Speaker 5: and like we're kind of like two steps forward, one
13:06
Speaker 5: step backing back and forth.
13:08
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, And I think to your point, like we
13:12
Speaker 1: are really hardwired to attach to other humans, and when
13:16
Speaker 1: those bonds are broken, it really is a trauma on
13:21
Speaker 1: a very visceral level, and that was actually one of
13:25
Speaker 1: the things that stood out for me. And so, Okay,
13:28
Speaker 1: I feel like we should talk about something, but I
13:32
Speaker 1: want to make sure that we do this cautiously so
13:34
Speaker 1: that we're not compromising anybody's confidentialities. Certainly, But you know,
13:39
Speaker 1: as I mentioned in the beginning of this program, is
13:41
Speaker 1: that Jesse and I co facilitate our Heartbreak Recovery Intensive
13:47
Speaker 1: program where we take groups of people through this process together.
13:51
Speaker 1: There are all these stages of healing, and I don't
13:55
Speaker 1: want to share any personal stories from anybody that was
13:58
Speaker 1: in our group, but speaking generally, one of the things
14:02
Speaker 1: that I heard over and over again is how impactful
14:07
Speaker 1: it is for people to understand that, particularly in the
14:12
Speaker 1: beginning phases of this the thoughts, the feelings, the cravings
14:16
Speaker 1: for contact that they're having towards their ex it is
14:21
Speaker 1: not information that should be acted on. It's this biologically
14:27
Speaker 1: based survival drive. In our program, we referred to it
14:30
Speaker 1: as the elephant.
14:31
Speaker 2: Right. It's big and it's powerful.
14:33
Speaker 3: And it can run the show.
14:35
Speaker 1: But like, I think the risk here is for people
14:37
Speaker 1: to interpret that as like I love them, we should
14:42
Speaker 1: be together. This is the relationship for me, right, and
14:45
Speaker 1: then move towards that because that can happen even in
14:50
Speaker 1: the context of a very unhealthy, unsustainable relationship, and that
14:56
Speaker 1: it feels counterintuitive.
14:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's interesting because but you do care about
15:01
Speaker 5: this person, right, and they they were somebody who was
15:03
Speaker 5: important to you for a long period of time. You
15:05
Speaker 5: might have kids with them, right, if you're going to
15:07
Speaker 5: talk about yes, had children, are married and things like that.
15:11
Speaker 5: And I'll say, like in work that I've done in
15:13
Speaker 5: the past where I've worked with people who are exiting
15:15
Speaker 5: abusive relationships, yeah, right, there was such a conflict within
15:20
Speaker 5: them of logically they understood this person is dangerous, this
15:25
Speaker 5: is healthy, I should not be there, But then there
15:28
Speaker 5: was another part of them. It's like but I love them.
15:31
Speaker 1: It feels so powerful that it's very very powerful. Yeah,
15:35
Speaker 1: And that's like one of the things that we try
15:37
Speaker 1: to teach and how people understand is it like your
15:39
Speaker 1: thinking brain, like this person is an abusive psychopath. Literally
15:45
Speaker 1: it is different than how you feel and that attachment bond.
15:49
Speaker 3: And that's so true.
15:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's tough because like then these people, especially
15:54
Speaker 5: they've got friends and family and other people in their
15:57
Speaker 5: lives that they typically would lean on for some support
16:00
Speaker 5: or in that, and sometimes they don't share because they're
16:05
Speaker 5: worried about being judged by their family about like because
16:07
Speaker 5: whether it's just a bad relationship or on the one
16:12
Speaker 5: side or abusive or whatever. Yeah, they're like, oh, how
16:14
Speaker 5: do I tell this? How do I tell my best friend? Like, oh,
16:17
Speaker 5: but I still I care about them, or I can't
16:18
Speaker 5: stop thinking about them when and they might be like, oh,
16:20
Speaker 5: they were terrible for you, just stop, get over and
16:22
Speaker 5: move on, right, I mean you get all sorts of
16:24
Speaker 5: unsolicited advice for people about how to manage through your breakup,
16:29
Speaker 5: and so they don't do that, and then people end
16:31
Speaker 5: up kind of siloed and kind of going through these
16:34
Speaker 5: like breakups and trying to navigate some really big emotions
16:38
Speaker 5: and these like really big internal drives to seek connection
16:43
Speaker 5: with that person because right it's been taken away and
16:46
Speaker 5: they have to do alone.
16:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's such a great point and just how
16:52
Speaker 1: isolating it is if you're having this internal conflict and
16:56
Speaker 1: you say to your best friend or whatever, but I
16:59
Speaker 1: still think about them all the time, and they dismiss
17:01
Speaker 1: that or make you feel like there's something wrong with
17:04
Speaker 1: you for feeling that way. Of course, predictably you start
17:07
Speaker 1: hiding it, but then you're alone with it.
17:10
Speaker 3: And I think that's honestly.
17:12
Speaker 1: What has been for me one of the most powerful
17:17
Speaker 1: things that have come out of like the way I
17:20
Speaker 1: want to work with this over the last few years,
17:23
Speaker 1: for years, and I think this is the same for
17:25
Speaker 1: you too, like as therapists or break up recovery coaches,
17:29
Speaker 1: trying to walk people through this just through like individual
17:33
Speaker 1: sessions like week after week, coming and talking to Lisa
17:36
Speaker 1: about how you feel and what's going on, and we
17:38
Speaker 1: wound up shifting into this group intensive format, which honestly,
17:43
Speaker 1: some people are a little like, I don't know, being
17:45
Speaker 1: in a group of other people talking about those but
17:48
Speaker 1: there's just like I think, anxiety about it. But I
17:51
Speaker 1: think what has been so powerful, exactly to your point,
17:54
Speaker 1: is to bring these groups of people together where they're like, oh,
17:58
Speaker 1: it's not just.
17:59
Speaker 5: Me, yeah. And I think that's also the one of
18:02
Speaker 5: the great powerful things about doing this online too, is
18:06
Speaker 5: right there if because we've I've had people who wanted
18:09
Speaker 5: to keep some level of anonymity so they don't put
18:13
Speaker 5: their camera on, right and they they're able to talk,
18:16
Speaker 5: and some people have their camera on they're talking to
18:17
Speaker 5: people and they're and so you get kind of a
18:20
Speaker 5: full spectrum of like engagement. And what I've seen in
18:23
Speaker 5: comparing the people I've worked with individually through heartbreak versus
18:27
Speaker 5: people in the group, the people in the groups have
18:29
Speaker 5: I think a faster of me.
18:33
Speaker 1: It's crazy, how much about oh sorry not to interrupt
18:36
Speaker 1: you and having like intrusive thoughts that's how you are.
18:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just it's amazing, right because again, one of
18:42
Speaker 5: the big things I keep hearing from people is because
18:45
Speaker 5: some people will do the group and simultaneously like work
18:48
Speaker 5: with me or you or somebody else, like individually in
18:50
Speaker 5: addition to the group, and like the people that I've
18:53
Speaker 5: talked to individually who are also doing the group will
18:55
Speaker 5: they'll be like, wow, like, I didn't realize so many
18:58
Speaker 5: people are going through the same thing I was, And whoa,
19:01
Speaker 5: it's so refreshing to hear that he or she said
19:05
Speaker 5: things that resonated with me and wow it is that
19:08
Speaker 5: that connection is amazing.
19:10
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:11
Speaker 1: Well, and the other thing that I've noticed, and I
19:14
Speaker 1: just for our for our friends who are listening. Maybe
19:18
Speaker 1: you don't have access to a group right now, but
19:21
Speaker 1: just to think about like how could you apply some
19:23
Speaker 1: of these ideas into your own life, because I think
19:27
Speaker 1: one of the things that I have been blown away
19:31
Speaker 1: by is to your point, Jesse, how fast people move
19:35
Speaker 1: through this in that group environment. And one of the
19:38
Speaker 1: things I've been trying to sort through, like why is
19:41
Speaker 1: it so much faster?
19:43
Speaker 3: I think it's because.
19:44
Speaker 1: When we are having our own experiences that it just
19:49
Speaker 1: it feels so true. Right, We're looking at the world
19:53
Speaker 1: from our own lens, right, And I'm telling you about
19:56
Speaker 1: how I feel, which is true, and you're like, that
19:58
Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. As an individual therapist or coach,
20:01
Speaker 1: that's a stance that we take. But in a group format,
20:05
Speaker 1: if somebody else is talking about how they feel which
20:09
Speaker 1: is true for them in the moment, and then to
20:11
Speaker 1: have the group see like me or you be like,
20:14
Speaker 1: well what about this and somebody else is like it's
20:16
Speaker 1: like I think it's in some ways easier to get
20:19
Speaker 1: psychological distance and perspective when you see someone else going
20:25
Speaker 1: through something because you.
20:26
Speaker 3: Can look at somebody else and be.
20:28
Speaker 2: Like, oh no, that's that's not true.
20:30
Speaker 1: They're telling themselves that it's their fault. But like when
20:34
Speaker 1: they tell the story, I can hear that they didn't
20:36
Speaker 1: do anything wrong, and if anything, they they tried harder
20:40
Speaker 1: than maybe they should have in this relationship. But then
20:43
Speaker 1: it's like when they tell their own story and they're like, no,
20:46
Speaker 1: it's my fault.
20:47
Speaker 2: That there's like this oh wait a minute.
20:50
Speaker 3: Kind of like lets it sink in a little bit more.
20:53
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
20:54
Speaker 5: I mean yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
20:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.
20:56
Speaker 5: And there's something about supporting other people too that is
20:59
Speaker 5: super healing as well. And I've seen people like dispense
21:04
Speaker 5: advice or comment on someone's thing, and then you can
21:07
Speaker 5: see them go like say the thing and then they're
21:09
Speaker 5: like oh right, and just having this realization as the
21:15
Speaker 5: words come out of their mouth and they're like, oh.
21:19
Speaker 2: That was a good Yeah. I got to write that
21:20
Speaker 2: one down.
21:21
Speaker 3: Such a good point. Yeah, well this isn't that true though.
21:24
Speaker 3: I mean, I know I've been in this situation.
21:26
Speaker 1: It's it's almost easier for us to like take care
21:30
Speaker 1: of other people, or be compassionate with other people, or
21:32
Speaker 1: give other people a good advice, and it is for
21:34
Speaker 1: us to take our own right for sure.
21:36
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I've certainly I certainly said something to someone
21:39
Speaker 5: in the back of my mind, I'm like, that's really
21:41
Speaker 5: amazing advice that I should do that too. That's great, yeah, amazing.
21:47
Speaker 5: Oh man. Yeah, So all right, so we don't want
21:52
Speaker 5: to reset the clock, right, We're not going to reset
21:54
Speaker 5: the clock. Don't reset the clock, right, or avoid it
21:56
Speaker 5: as much as possible. Yes, And that can be really hard,
21:59
Speaker 5: I'll say, because one of the things I encourage people
22:02
Speaker 5: very early on, right, like, as I'm talking to people,
22:04
Speaker 5: I ask them like, are you still connected to your
22:07
Speaker 5: X in any way? Right? We talk about like social
22:09
Speaker 5: media and whatever cross paths with each other socially, and
22:14
Speaker 5: for some people it's impossible. They're like they work in
22:16
Speaker 5: the same office and we literally when I can't quit
22:19
Speaker 5: my job right in co parenting or their co parenting
22:22
Speaker 5: and stuff. But I'll say, certainly, there's things that you
22:26
Speaker 5: can be done in any situation trying to limit the contact.
22:29
Speaker 5: And for people that don't have like required contact, like
22:31
Speaker 5: your co parenting, so you have to communicate with this person.
22:34
Speaker 5: I always encourage people like block unfollow, right, just rip
22:41
Speaker 5: off the band aid and just like do that as
22:45
Speaker 5: soon as possible, because it then it becomes this like
22:48
Speaker 5: unexpected intrusion because one thing, it'd be like, oh, I
22:52
Speaker 5: know that I'm going to see my ex on Tuesday
22:55
Speaker 5: when I go hand them off the kids, right right, right,
22:57
Speaker 5: I'm ready for it. I know it's going to happen.
22:59
Speaker 5: Or I know I'm going to see my exit that
23:01
Speaker 5: wedding that I'm going to in June or whatever. Right,
23:04
Speaker 5: You're like, Okay, I know it's going to happen. I'm there.
23:06
Speaker 5: It's another thing to be like I'm just hanging out,
23:08
Speaker 5: laying them a bed, scrolling through social media, and all
23:11
Speaker 5: of a sudden it's like boom, there they are hanging
23:15
Speaker 5: out with their new partner. Here's a picture of them
23:18
Speaker 5: or whatever. But it doesn't even need to be that bad.
23:20
Speaker 5: It could just be them talking about their day and
23:21
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, like I see a picture of them,
23:23
Speaker 5: or I see and then now they're on their mind,
23:24
Speaker 5: and now I click on it and then I go
23:26
Speaker 5: through and I look and I'm oh, and then I
23:28
Speaker 5: start to reminisce and I go back and my whole
23:30
Speaker 5: night is ruined. Right yeah, yeah, and so right, we
23:33
Speaker 5: can be more in control of that, and I think certainly,
23:36
Speaker 5: just like block whatever. And also at the same time,
23:39
Speaker 5: they're no longer a partner. They don't get to have
23:43
Speaker 5: access to your life either, right, like leaving that window
23:46
Speaker 5: open for them to be like, oh, what are they
23:48
Speaker 5: doing and like kind of poke around and see what
23:49
Speaker 5: you're posting and stuff that. Oh they don't get to
23:53
Speaker 5: You're awesome. You don't they don't get to share in
23:54
Speaker 5: that awesomeness anymore.
23:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't get to share the awesomeness. Well, okay, listen,
24:01
Speaker 1: we need to take a super quick break, but quick
24:04
Speaker 1: recap before we do. I mean, you've shared some of
24:07
Speaker 1: these super important key ingredients, which first of all is
24:11
Speaker 1: stop resetting the sign. I think the second thing we
24:15
Speaker 1: talked about is like, find some community around this can
24:19
Speaker 1: be very healing. And then the third thing is the
24:23
Speaker 1: ultra importance of setting material boundaries so that you're protected
24:29
Speaker 1: from these intrusive experiences. So on the other side of
24:32
Speaker 1: the break, what I would love to talk more about
24:36
Speaker 1: is some of the very first internal shifts people need
24:40
Speaker 1: to make in order to be.
24:42
Speaker 2: Able to set the boundaries.
24:44
Speaker 1: Because there's one key ingredient in my experience that will
24:49
Speaker 1: keep people stuck for years and make it impossible to
24:52
Speaker 1: set boundaries.
24:53
Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to talk about when we
24:55
Speaker 2: come back.
24:56
Speaker 5: I love it too home home.
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Speaker 2: Lhs so Jesse.
27:59
Speaker 3: Just before the.
27:59
Speaker 1: Break, you and I agreed that on the other side,
28:02
Speaker 1: we needed to spill the beans about the all important step.
28:08
Speaker 1: This is the one that people miss and this is
28:10
Speaker 1: the one that will get people stuck for years and years,
28:13
Speaker 1: which is related to relationship clarity.
28:18
Speaker 3: And I know that when we teach this one, people.
28:21
Speaker 1: Are like, oh my gosh, I didn't even think about that,
28:24
Speaker 1: But you're right, and it is this the fact that
28:28
Speaker 1: even though objectively the relationship is over, in their minds,
28:36
Speaker 1: it might not totally be over.
28:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what have you seen with that?
28:42
Speaker 1: And how does that keep people not just stuck, but
28:45
Speaker 1: like they can't even start setting the boundaries unless they
28:49
Speaker 1: do that work.
28:50
Speaker 5: I think in that arena, one of the traps that
28:54
Speaker 5: I feel like gets people stuck, right, is this idea
28:57
Speaker 5: of like closure, right, that kind of that pops up there,
29:01
Speaker 5: like I didn't get closure, I need closure, And and
29:04
Speaker 5: we kind of go about that, and they're expecting this
29:07
Speaker 5: person who wasn't able to be there, be present, or
29:13
Speaker 5: be like the type of person they needed them to
29:15
Speaker 5: be in the during the relationship to somehow suddenly give
29:20
Speaker 5: them this very wise, well thought out gift of like closure.
29:29
Speaker 1: Right, here's what was really going on for me this
29:32
Speaker 1: whole time.
29:33
Speaker 2: And I just want you to know.
29:34
Speaker 5: Like, and somehow, even if they were able to articulate
29:37
Speaker 5: that in a really great way, in a way that
29:40
Speaker 5: they weren't able to ever do in their relationship, that
29:43
Speaker 5: would not be It's not the sudden magic thing that's
29:47
Speaker 5: gonna make everything. Oh and the light bulb goes off
29:50
Speaker 5: and you're like, great, I can move on with my
29:51
Speaker 5: life now. It's wonderful, right, It's not not gonna happen, right,
29:55
Speaker 5: And I think that's part of that, like that relationship
29:57
Speaker 5: clarity thing. It's like, oh, what happened? There's always these
30:01
Speaker 5: questions of like why or what and how and and
30:04
Speaker 5: and people get really really stuck on that. And I
30:06
Speaker 5: think the one of the more powerful things that people
30:08
Speaker 5: start to realize when they start to work with us
30:10
Speaker 5: in the group and things is like how much of
30:12
Speaker 5: that is in their own control?
30:14
Speaker 1: Yes?
30:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know closure something you give yourself totally. Yeah,
30:20
Speaker 5: you rely on that person that's either unable, unwilling or
30:24
Speaker 5: not there to be able to give that to you.
30:27
Speaker 2: Yeah.
30:28
Speaker 5: So right, there's a lot of control you have in
30:30
Speaker 5: that yourself. And I think that people get really stuck
30:33
Speaker 5: in those things. And also just because the the landing
30:37
Speaker 5: was terrible, people also, right, they get stuck on this like, well,
30:40
Speaker 5: does it mean like everything in the relationship wasn't real
30:43
Speaker 5: or it didn't matter? And like they kind of get
30:45
Speaker 5: stuck on all those things too. I have an analogy
30:48
Speaker 5: that anybody who's worked with me has probably heard a
30:51
Speaker 5: million times as I talk about relationships or like airplanes, right,
30:56
Speaker 5: not every plane you get on brings you to your
30:58
Speaker 5: final destination right there. You come in for a landing,
31:02
Speaker 5: for a layover. Sometimes you get on a different plane.
31:05
Speaker 5: Maybe there's a mechanical issue, you've got to land early,
31:08
Speaker 5: and they're so right, we're gonna come in for various
31:11
Speaker 5: landings in our life, and some of those landings we're
31:13
Speaker 5: gonna be like white knuckling the seat and thinking like
31:15
Speaker 5: this is it. The end is near? Right. And if
31:19
Speaker 5: you've ever gotten off a really bad flight and someone
31:21
Speaker 5: said how is your flight, very frequently the answer we
31:24
Speaker 5: give it was terrible. It was the worst flight ever.
31:26
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, we're landing was so rough, and we
31:29
Speaker 5: forget that right in the course of like an eight
31:32
Speaker 5: hour flight, maybe there was like five minutes that was
31:36
Speaker 5: white knuckle and rodd turbulence and it was terrible and
31:39
Speaker 5: the bad landing. Right, But for seven hours and fifty
31:42
Speaker 5: five minutes of this flight, things were okay. The takeoff
31:45
Speaker 5: was great and smooth. There was a great in flight movie.
31:48
Speaker 5: I had a glass of wine the person next to me.
31:50
Speaker 5: It was really nice and I I looked at the
31:53
Speaker 5: Grand Canyon as I flew over, and there's little snippets
31:56
Speaker 5: of good pieces, right, and those are those can exist
31:59
Speaker 5: in parallel with And we had a really crappy land. Yeah,
32:02
Speaker 5: and when I get off that plane, it still brought
32:04
Speaker 5: me forward in life. It still brought me, It still
32:07
Speaker 5: got me toward my final destination. Yeah, And there were
32:11
Speaker 5: some good parts of it, and I could acknowledge there
32:12
Speaker 5: are good parts of it. And I can also acknowledge
32:14
Speaker 5: maybe I never want to fly Spirit again.
32:17
Speaker 2: I'm never doing that again.
32:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're like, you know what, not getting back on
32:21
Speaker 5: that plane, not flying that airline again. I'm going to
32:23
Speaker 5: go to a different airline, right.
32:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's okay, that's awesome. And I think such a
32:30
Speaker 1: good reminder that all relationships are a mixed bag, yeah,
32:35
Speaker 1: and that we could certainly focus on the hard parts
32:39
Speaker 1: without recognizing the positive parts.
32:42
Speaker 2: But you know, you also.
32:43
Speaker 1: Mentioned something that I think is really an important concept too,
32:48
Speaker 1: And this is also something that I've seen over and
32:50
Speaker 1: over again, is that when people are feeling like victimized
32:56
Speaker 1: by the way the relationship ended or disempowered, or that
33:00
Speaker 1: you use the word control a couple minutes ago, like
33:03
Speaker 1: when things were done to them that were outside of
33:05
Speaker 1: their control, or they're waiting for closure that feels like
33:08
Speaker 1: it is outside of their control. That is also for me,
33:12
Speaker 1: part of what keeps people stuck. And what I have
33:16
Speaker 1: seen like the biggest shifts in the people that we
33:19
Speaker 1: work with is the shift that comes when people take
33:22
Speaker 1: their power back and like even start thinking about the
33:26
Speaker 1: relationship and it stops becoming like I got kicked off
33:31
Speaker 1: that airplane to Yeah, that was actually not that good
33:36
Speaker 1: for me, And I don't want to fly that airline
33:40
Speaker 1: ever again anyway.
33:41
Speaker 2: Because that was not healthy.
33:45
Speaker 3: And so it's like this decision that I don't.
33:49
Speaker 1: Want to participate in whatever that was anymore, as opposed
33:52
Speaker 1: to feeling like something was taken away from them without
33:55
Speaker 1: the consent.
33:57
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think it's certainly very empowering. That
34:00
Speaker 5: shift is very empowering because then that person feels more
34:05
Speaker 5: I don't know you over use the word control, but
34:07
Speaker 5: the more in control of their life. Yeah, And I
34:10
Speaker 5: think that's an important shift to make. And when I
34:12
Speaker 5: see people start to do that, then again they're not
34:14
Speaker 5: waiting for this person to give them something, right, They're
34:17
Speaker 5: able to claim it for themselves, right, their own freedom
34:19
Speaker 5: of their own autonomy, you know, and make a decision
34:22
Speaker 5: of like, Wow, I'm so happy that relationship is now
34:26
Speaker 5: over and I can now focus on who do I
34:29
Speaker 5: want to be now and make really good, smart choices
34:33
Speaker 5: about the relationships I get into the future.
34:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, Oh so good. So let's also talk
34:42
Speaker 1: then about not just what will keep people stuck. And
34:48
Speaker 1: I think we've identified so many good things. I mean,
34:52
Speaker 1: the isolation pieces, resetting the sign, maintaining contact, staying in
34:57
Speaker 1: this like disempowered mindset.
35:00
Speaker 3: But I think it.
35:02
Speaker 1: Is stopping doing the things that will keep you stuck
35:07
Speaker 1: is part of it, but that there also needs to
35:09
Speaker 1: be I think more direction for people on what to
35:14
Speaker 1: do to start getting unstuck, like what to actually add
35:18
Speaker 1: into the system. And I think what you and I
35:21
Speaker 1: have found and this is what we teach in our
35:23
Speaker 1: program and our courses here growing self, And oh, we
35:27
Speaker 1: should probably say this out loud. We are now offering
35:32
Speaker 1: a coach training program for therapists to be able to
35:38
Speaker 1: conduct this heartbreak recovery process because and you know, that's
35:44
Speaker 1: actually another thing that I think can keep people stuck.
35:48
Speaker 1: And I mean to throw out no shade on therapists,
35:50
Speaker 1: it's because no, seriously, like the reality is that it
35:54
Speaker 1: surprises people to hear this, But therapists do not learn
35:58
Speaker 1: anything specifically about heartbreak, recovery or relationship loss. I mean,
36:03
Speaker 1: I know that I certainly didn't in my training as
36:07
Speaker 1: a marriage and family therapist.
36:08
Speaker 2: I mean, did you know?
36:09
Speaker 5: And I think that people assume, right they go to
36:12
Speaker 5: their therapists or even even a marriage family therapists, and
36:15
Speaker 5: they're like, this space and should know how to help
36:16
Speaker 5: me through this thing, right? And I think that well
36:20
Speaker 5: educated therapists can certainly help you out, but I think
36:24
Speaker 5: a specifically educated therapist or coach can help you out
36:28
Speaker 5: even more. Right, Yes, why I bring I bring my
36:31
Speaker 5: car to the break shop to get its breaks done.
36:33
Speaker 5: I don't bring it to the paint shop to get
36:34
Speaker 5: the breaks done, right. And I think the same thing
36:37
Speaker 5: about like, how do you pick a therapist or a coach? Sure?
36:39
Speaker 1: That person such a good point, great, and I think,
36:42
Speaker 1: and again, therapists are so well meaning, but it's just
36:45
Speaker 1: it's literally not part of their training.
36:48
Speaker 3: And so where a therapist will go.
36:50
Speaker 1: Is typically around grief. A therapist will absolutely hold the
36:55
Speaker 1: space and you can talk about how you feel and
36:57
Speaker 1: going into what happened and why and telling the stories
37:00
Speaker 1: and so it's definitely like a safe, accepting container. But
37:04
Speaker 1: also I think because therapists are really trained diagnose and
37:08
Speaker 1: treat mental health conditions, it will oftentimes turn into Okay, so, yeah,
37:14
Speaker 1: what are your issues that are making it so hard
37:17
Speaker 1: to move on?
37:17
Speaker 2: And so we're talking about.
37:18
Speaker 1: Your attachment issues or that your parents got divorced, or
37:22
Speaker 1: that you are anxious or whatever it is. And I think,
37:26
Speaker 1: again therapists that's what they have to work with, but
37:31
Speaker 1: I think that can sometimes add to that disempowerment feeling
37:36
Speaker 1: because then people take that and be like, yeah, what
37:39
Speaker 1: is wrong with me that I can't move on? When
37:44
Speaker 1: the reality is and what you and I see, Jesse,
37:46
Speaker 1: is that literally anyone that most emotionally healthy, perfectly securely
37:52
Speaker 1: attached human, if they go through a traumatic relationship loss,
37:57
Speaker 1: is going to feel exactly the same way. And so
38:00
Speaker 1: the path to healing this isn't like trying to find
38:02
Speaker 1: the psychopathology or or even grieving like that'll only get
38:06
Speaker 1: you so far, but that you actually need to do
38:08
Speaker 1: some very specific things differently, and that therapists don't know
38:12
Speaker 1: how to do that. I mean, I've had so many
38:14
Speaker 1: clients You've been like I was in therapy literally for
38:17
Speaker 1: years and I was just kind of spinning my wheels
38:20
Speaker 1: and now I'm here to get subtraction in a different way.
38:23
Speaker 1: So yeah, we need to we need to get more
38:26
Speaker 1: therapists into this pool.
38:28
Speaker 5: And that's what's Yeah, we're trying to get it. And
38:29
Speaker 5: I think that like, once you get through that grief
38:33
Speaker 5: portion right and talking about attachment and talking about all
38:36
Speaker 5: the all the all the things right that therapists we're
38:39
Speaker 5: going to run through with people, it's like, okay, cool,
38:41
Speaker 5: what next, right? And I think that's where we're coaching.
38:44
Speaker 5: I think is really great to kind of handle atonto
38:46
Speaker 5: because that is very action oriented, very like, Okay, this
38:49
Speaker 5: is what we're going to do. Now, We're going to
38:51
Speaker 5: make an action plan. We're going to go ahead and
38:52
Speaker 5: figure out how to move forward in a very positive,
38:55
Speaker 5: constructive way.
38:56
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, then so let's shift into that.
38:59
Speaker 1: Let's talk about some of what goes in to that
39:02
Speaker 1: action plan, because there are a variety of stages of
39:06
Speaker 1: this and things that people really need to learn how
39:09
Speaker 1: to do in order to move forward. So we need
39:12
Speaker 1: to take another super quick break around the other side
39:14
Speaker 1: of that.
39:15
Speaker 2: Let's go action, all right, Okay.
39:18
Speaker 4: Tuson my pig, myself up.
39:22
Speaker 5: Too bid things.
39:25
Speaker 1: Better now better now, I'm so ready, now ready now.
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39:40
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39:44
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39:48
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39:54
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39:57
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Speaker 1: time is shopify dot com slash lhs. Before the break,
42:22
Speaker 1: we were talking about the importance of intentional action to
42:27
Speaker 1: move through this process. So in your experience, I mean
42:32
Speaker 1: working with people individually or in group settings and our
42:35
Speaker 1: intensive program, what do you see as some of the
42:38
Speaker 1: most impactful actions people have taken that like really start
42:44
Speaker 1: to get them un stuck and moving forward.
42:47
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's so many, so many. I think that outside
42:52
Speaker 5: of things we've already discussed, right, and as far as
42:55
Speaker 5: like good boundaries and things and stopping following them on
42:58
Speaker 5: social media and all that, I think what I start
43:01
Speaker 5: to see is people giving themselves permission to kind of
43:06
Speaker 5: like live their life and do the things that they
43:08
Speaker 5: want to do. Right. They don't have to ask somebody
43:10
Speaker 5: for permission, they don't have to like check in with somebody.
43:12
Speaker 5: They're able to kind of just like navigate life for
43:15
Speaker 5: a moment and see who am I today outside of
43:19
Speaker 5: this relationship? Who do I want to be? Right? Because
43:22
Speaker 5: especially relationships that have been going on for so long, right,
43:25
Speaker 5: our identity is, oh, I'm part of this couple, I'm
43:29
Speaker 5: part of this right, Like that's part of my identity.
43:31
Speaker 5: And it's like it may it may have been five years,
43:35
Speaker 5: ten years since I was single, and now it's like, Okay,
43:39
Speaker 5: who am I now? And I always like what I
43:42
Speaker 5: want for anybody that I work with. And one of
43:44
Speaker 5: the things I really focus on is I really want
43:46
Speaker 5: people to start to develop self generated confidence and self
43:50
Speaker 5: generated happiness that relies on nobody but themselves, because I
43:53
Speaker 5: think if I am, if I kind of lean all
43:57
Speaker 5: of my confidence and happiness and I put it all
44:00
Speaker 5: one basket, like that relationship basket, and it doesn't work out,
44:03
Speaker 5: then it collapses, and now I'm like, oh no, how
44:05
Speaker 5: do I function? And said, if I'm a fully function
44:08
Speaker 5: informs human being and I'm happy and I'm confident, and
44:11
Speaker 5: then I meet another person, then ideally this is like
44:14
Speaker 5: an amplification of the confidence and happiness because that's a
44:17
Speaker 5: healthy relationship will do. And it's not that I require
44:20
Speaker 5: that relationship to have those things right. So that is
44:24
Speaker 5: like where I kind of steer people right, and some
44:27
Speaker 5: of that is what am I doing? Like your physical
44:30
Speaker 5: health is really important, so like are you exercising and
44:34
Speaker 5: taking care of yourself and the way that is good
44:36
Speaker 5: for you and eating and drinking appropriately. As much as
44:41
Speaker 5: I have tried, no amount of alcohol has made my
44:44
Speaker 5: breakup ever better. And I trust me, I have tried,
44:49
Speaker 5: me too.
44:51
Speaker 2: Might make it better.
44:52
Speaker 5: Yeah, for like a minute, right, it makes it better,
44:54
Speaker 5: very very briefly, but then eventually you're like, that didn't
44:56
Speaker 5: work right, And so like eating, sleep, drinking appropriately, right,
45:01
Speaker 5: those things are really really important. I think can certainly help, right, Yeah,
45:06
Speaker 5: help you go in that right direction. Community its huge, right,
45:11
Speaker 5: It's like re engaging with those friends and relationships that
45:14
Speaker 5: are very positive and healthy and awesome. I think very
45:18
Speaker 5: frequently people in relationships right get caught up in their
45:22
Speaker 5: relationship when what's going on and they don't they're like, oh, wait,
45:26
Speaker 5: I have friends, I have people out there.
45:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, and that can I think it can be challenging. Well,
45:34
Speaker 1: and to your point, I mean, just like bigger picture,
45:36
Speaker 1: that's such a good reason to like not neglect your
45:39
Speaker 1: friendships just because you're in a relationship. We need to
45:42
Speaker 1: nurture all those parts of our lives. But I think too,
45:46
Speaker 1: when you're going through a really traumatic heartbreak or divorce,
45:50
Speaker 1: relationship loss, you don't feel good, but it's like emotionally
45:56
Speaker 1: having a broken leg or something like, there's just a
45:59
Speaker 1: lot of pain, and I think it can be so difficult.
46:05
Speaker 1: Maybe not for you, I think you're such a natural extrovert.
46:07
Speaker 1: Maybe you're wired differently, But I know for me personally, like.
46:10
Speaker 3: When I don't feel good.
46:11
Speaker 1: I don't want to be around other people and so
46:14
Speaker 1: but to understand that like these connections are really so healing,
46:18
Speaker 1: and to put yourself in places where maybe not like
46:22
Speaker 1: super high impact social things where you need to be
46:24
Speaker 1: like oh hey, right, but maybe old friends, emotionally intimate relationships,
46:31
Speaker 1: even if you're not talking about the breakup necessarily just yeah.
46:34
Speaker 5: And I think that that's going to look different for everybody, right.
46:36
Speaker 5: One person might be like, oh, I'm going to go
46:38
Speaker 5: immerse myself into a giant for people doing a big
46:41
Speaker 5: thing for other people. Community support could look like I'm
46:46
Speaker 5: going to go to a silent book club and I'm
46:48
Speaker 5: going to go read a book. I'm going to read
46:52
Speaker 5: a book and as some tea and just be kind
46:54
Speaker 5: of like out of the house, right And I want
46:55
Speaker 5: to put on like actual real pants today and not
46:58
Speaker 5: not to live in my sweatpants. Right, So right, So
47:01
Speaker 5: like that is a I think it's going to look
47:03
Speaker 5: different for everybody, But I certainly encourage like, what does
47:05
Speaker 5: community look like for you? And engage in that and
47:09
Speaker 5: hobbies and interests and things that like kind of bring
47:12
Speaker 5: you joy are really really important, right. I think about
47:15
Speaker 5: like self care is that that piece that is like
47:19
Speaker 5: so important for getting through this and like emerging on
47:22
Speaker 5: the other side as like you want to be and
47:25
Speaker 5: that self care is like is multifaceted and so many
47:29
Speaker 5: different layers.
47:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good advice. And I'm thinking too other actions
47:37
Speaker 1: that I have seen people take in our in our
47:41
Speaker 1: groups and and through one on one that that I
47:43
Speaker 1: thought just.
47:44
Speaker 2: Were so powerful.
47:45
Speaker 1: Interested to tip my own hand here, I mean, really
47:48
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I think I'm still an
47:50
Speaker 1: experiential psychotherapist, but carrying that into coaching work. And that's
47:55
Speaker 1: actually what I love about coaching is that it is
47:57
Speaker 1: so physical in some ways. And I hope it's okay
48:01
Speaker 1: to share. Again, I don't want to divulge confidential information,
48:06
Speaker 1: but I heard numerous stories in this last intensive group
48:11
Speaker 1: around specific things that people did, and they had big
48:16
Speaker 1: reactions to them in the moment, but it rearranged the
48:20
Speaker 1: emotional furniture, as experiential work can do. And so one
48:24
Speaker 1: of our participants, I won't say specifics, but there was
48:27
Speaker 1: a momento from her past relationship that she had had
48:32
Speaker 1: in her house for a number of years, and through
48:36
Speaker 1: the support of the group, she was encouraged to throw
48:39
Speaker 1: that away, and she had a lot of resistance to
48:42
Speaker 1: doing that, but then she took a picture of this
48:46
Speaker 1: momento sitting on top of the trash can, on top
48:48
Speaker 1: of a pile of trash, and she actually posted it
48:51
Speaker 1: to the community and everybody was like yay. And she
48:55
Speaker 1: came back to our next intensive session like just like
48:59
Speaker 1: a new woman. She was like this no longer has
49:02
Speaker 1: power over me.
49:03
Speaker 3: And it was like and another one of our participants
49:06
Speaker 3: the same thing.
49:07
Speaker 1: There had been a box of stuff in a closet
49:11
Speaker 1: and that box.
49:13
Speaker 3: Was removed from the home.
49:14
Speaker 1: And driven away to somewhere else and came back and
49:17
Speaker 1: he was like, I am a different human now.
49:21
Speaker 5: I've seen that. That's that's I will say, one of
49:24
Speaker 5: those powerful experiences that I've seen a lot of people
49:28
Speaker 5: go through. And yeah, because I'll I've talked to people
49:31
Speaker 5: and they end up in this situation where this the
49:33
Speaker 5: house they live in, is such a triggering memory.
49:36
Speaker 2: Of the museum.
49:37
Speaker 5: Yeah's a museum. They're walking through the skeleton of their
49:39
Speaker 5: old relationship right where it's like these pictures or the
49:43
Speaker 5: things or whatever or things that you know. I'm not
49:45
Speaker 5: saying you need to like full sale purge and be
49:47
Speaker 5: like this. My ex gave me this T shirt that
49:50
Speaker 5: is a generic black T shirt. I must get rid
49:52
Speaker 5: of it.
49:52
Speaker 1: Right.
49:53
Speaker 5: I'm not saying you have to do that kind of
49:54
Speaker 5: a wholesale purge, but I think anything that is charged
49:57
Speaker 5: with right and that you see that thing and you're like, oh,
50:01
Speaker 5: it reminds me of that person, and yeah, then that
50:04
Speaker 5: that should be something that's evaluated for like going. I
50:07
Speaker 5: encourage people that sometimes people when they break up, they
50:10
Speaker 5: might be the one who keeps the house or the
50:12
Speaker 5: apartment or whatever. And certainly, right, not everybody's in a
50:15
Speaker 5: position where they could be like I'm just gonna get
50:17
Speaker 5: rid of this house, right, but like, hey, can you
50:21
Speaker 5: reclaim this space for yourself? Repaint the room and maybe
50:25
Speaker 5: change the orientation of the furniture and put a different
50:28
Speaker 5: plant here, or get new lamps. Right, There's ways to
50:31
Speaker 5: kind of create take ownership of a space so that
50:35
Speaker 5: when you walk into it, you're like, oh, it's not
50:36
Speaker 5: the living room I walked into every day with my
50:38
Speaker 5: ex totally and hung out on that couch is facing
50:41
Speaker 5: this television right now, It's like, Oh, got some new
50:44
Speaker 5: furniture maybe, and this room is blue now, and oh,
50:47
Speaker 5: look at this and it's got a different energy to right,
50:50
Speaker 5: that's one of those experiences. I think they can also
50:52
Speaker 5: be so powerful and reclaiming space.
50:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah.
50:57
Speaker 5: They talk a lot about that in the group too.
50:59
Speaker 5: There's like, I know there's some people who talk about
51:01
Speaker 5: like their specific songs that they that are very powerful.
51:05
Speaker 3: Or locations restatations it can never go into again.
51:09
Speaker 5: Until they had clients are like I can never listen
51:12
Speaker 5: to music again, like on a whole stuff. I'm like, really,
51:16
Speaker 5: that's going to be hard, right, Like maybe we should
51:17
Speaker 5: work on that, Right, there's maybe you'd like to one
51:20
Speaker 5: day homma tune again. Right, but right, because there's these
51:22
Speaker 5: things that and I'm like, don't let this person take
51:26
Speaker 5: from you, like these other things with the other joys.
51:29
Speaker 5: Right like you you you enjoyed music prior to knowing
51:33
Speaker 5: this person existed. I would like for you to be
51:35
Speaker 5: able to enjoy music.
51:37
Speaker 3: The reclaim it, take it back.
51:40
Speaker 1: But that there are all these feelings that people have
51:44
Speaker 1: when they kind of start walking up to the I'm
51:46
Speaker 1: going to listen to music again, or I'm going to
51:48
Speaker 1: throw the thing away, or I'm going to take the
51:50
Speaker 1: box out of the closet, And there's like a lot
51:52
Speaker 1: of I mean, they're they're big feelings, but it turns
51:56
Speaker 1: into all these reasons not to like I can't throw
51:58
Speaker 1: away this Rubik's cue because like whatever and right, and
52:03
Speaker 1: so there's just a lot of support that people need.
52:05
Speaker 3: And so anyway the.
52:08
Speaker 5: Cube around here, and I was like, wait, I mean
52:11
Speaker 5: it's funny because like there was a song that I
52:13
Speaker 5: had for so long that was associated with an X
52:15
Speaker 5: of mine that I could not listen to forever. I
52:17
Speaker 5: mean like literally, I'd be like I have to change
52:19
Speaker 5: the station or walk out of.
52:19
Speaker 1: The room exposure therapy.
52:22
Speaker 5: And now if that song we're playing, I might not
52:27
Speaker 5: even notice, to be honest with it, right, And then
52:29
Speaker 5: if I did notice and go, oh that's that song,
52:32
Speaker 5: I'd be like, oh that's that song anyway, and I
52:34
Speaker 5: would just kind of go on with my day.
52:37
Speaker 6: Right.
52:37
Speaker 5: So I think for anybody out there listening who is
52:39
Speaker 5: struggling with a place, a song, a thing of activity
52:43
Speaker 5: or whatever it is that right now they're like, I
52:46
Speaker 5: can't do that because I associate so much of that person.
52:50
Speaker 5: There are ways to get through that, and you could
52:55
Speaker 5: either reclaim those things right so that you have you
52:58
Speaker 5: can still enjoy them or get it to a point
53:02
Speaker 5: where it is a oh, yeah, that's just that thing
53:04
Speaker 5: and move on, you don't even think about it anymore.
53:06
Speaker 5: There are definitely ways to get toward there, and yeah,
53:09
Speaker 5: encourage you to, like, even if it's not us somewhere right,
53:13
Speaker 5: find that support, that coaching that you need to kind
53:15
Speaker 5: of like process through that.
53:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that I mean, how's that for a hopeful thought?
53:21
Speaker 1: And I think going back to the very beginning, when
53:23
Speaker 1: people are really stuck in this, it feels so big
53:28
Speaker 1: and like how am I ever going to feel like
53:30
Speaker 1: myself again? And that with the right help and the
53:33
Speaker 1: right support, I mean, the end of this is that
53:37
Speaker 1: you don't really think about it at all, Like you
53:40
Speaker 1: don't even notice the song. And what was really cool
53:43
Speaker 1: is that, especially through this intensive process that we've been doing,
53:47
Speaker 1: I have been astounded at how quickly people will move
53:52
Speaker 1: into that space where honestly, like probably by the six
53:58
Speaker 1: week mark, seven week marks, they don't even want to
54:02
Speaker 1: talk about the X or the break up or the
54:05
Speaker 1: relationship anymore, like yeah, that that happened, but like they're
54:08
Speaker 1: sort of thinking more about like, okay, so like to
54:11
Speaker 1: your point, Jesse, who who am I now? What do
54:14
Speaker 1: I want in my life and what do I need
54:17
Speaker 1: to learn or do? Differently, like the X starts to
54:20
Speaker 1: feel irrelevant, almost like it was.
54:22
Speaker 5: You know, they're like kind of almost annoyed. They're like,
54:23
Speaker 5: I don't want to talk about that, but I don't
54:25
Speaker 5: want to waste time talking about that person anymore. Let's
54:26
Speaker 5: talk about like where I'm going, right, Yeah, yeah, because
54:29
Speaker 5: it's interesting because like when in the beginning of any
54:32
Speaker 5: type of heartbreak, right, it's all encompassing, right, yeah, And
54:35
Speaker 5: I kind of it's like if when we're sick, right,
54:38
Speaker 5: if I have a really horrible cold, or if I
54:39
Speaker 5: have a broken leg or whatever it is that's wrong.
54:42
Speaker 5: It is very like every single moment you're thinking about
54:46
Speaker 5: I can't breathe through my nose, and I can't sleep,
54:47
Speaker 5: I'm miserable, had hurts, whatever it is. You can't think
54:50
Speaker 5: of anything else. Now, if I were to ask you
54:54
Speaker 5: to think about a time that you had a cold,
54:58
Speaker 5: you could remember, oh yeah, I remember being sick and
55:01
Speaker 5: stuffy and whatever, but you don't experience it right now. Yeah,
55:06
Speaker 5: And I think that that's what ends up happening with
55:09
Speaker 5: breakups eventually. Right, It's like when you're going through it.
55:11
Speaker 5: It's like having the cold, and you're like, ah, it's
55:14
Speaker 5: all I can think about every single waking moment, and
55:17
Speaker 5: they can't even think of a time where I can't
55:19
Speaker 5: even imagine a time without feeling it, because right now
55:21
Speaker 5: it's just all encompassing. But then you do the work, right,
55:25
Speaker 5: you kind of go through that and you come out
55:27
Speaker 5: the other side, and eventually you're well again. Right, You've
55:30
Speaker 5: got rid of the cold, and now it's like, oh, yeah,
55:33
Speaker 5: I had a cold once anyway.
55:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And that it can move much faster than
55:41
Speaker 1: you think it can. I mean, and Jess and I
55:43
Speaker 1: have just experienced this over and over and our last
55:46
Speaker 1: intensive session is a person who it was twelve years since.
55:50
Speaker 2: The relationship bended.
55:51
Speaker 1: You know what, Jesse, As we're talking today, we need
55:53
Speaker 1: to do another intensive group again soon. I think we
55:57
Speaker 1: don't have one plan through a practice right now. Right now,
56:00
Speaker 1: we have our the online self paced program that is
56:05
Speaker 1: available and certainly people could access that.
56:08
Speaker 3: They could also come in and talk one on one
56:11
Speaker 3: with you.
56:11
Speaker 1: Another heartbreak recovery coach on our team. We are making
56:14
Speaker 1: training opportunities available for therapists, but I think we just
56:18
Speaker 1: ran into some conflicts with scheduling our next intensive group,
56:23
Speaker 1: but I think we need to do that sooner rather
56:25
Speaker 1: than later, because this, as we're talking through this today,
56:27
Speaker 1: like the magic is happening in the group, like more
56:31
Speaker 1: than individual sessions. I could talk to somebody for a
56:34
Speaker 1: year and they would not have moved as fast as
56:35
Speaker 1: they would in the group.
56:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep for it.
56:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I'm definitely up for it. I think it
56:40
Speaker 5: was such a great group, and I think everybody from
56:43
Speaker 5: that group were there is just so supportive of each
56:46
Speaker 5: other in such a really wonderful way. And I think
56:48
Speaker 5: that's the fun thing about group dynamics and the way
56:50
Speaker 5: they kind of form, and they were even outside of session,
56:53
Speaker 5: we're really providing such a really good support for each other.
56:56
Speaker 1: They started hanging out with each other outside of our groups.
57:00
Speaker 1: It got together by themselves unsupervised on like Thanksgiving.
57:04
Speaker 3: It was crazy, and they were talking.
57:06
Speaker 1: About us, Jesse. They would like talk about us and
57:07
Speaker 1: then come by yeah I know, yeah, but okay, great,
57:12
Speaker 1: absolutely well. And we've had other groups as well, like
57:14
Speaker 1: so many amazing group participants. This last group was extra
57:18
Speaker 1: special though, But so listen, if anybody is interested in,
57:22
Speaker 1: like I want to do a group with Lisa and Jesse.
57:24
Speaker 1: Help me walk me through this. Send me an email
57:27
Speaker 1: doctor Lisa at growingself dot com or I don't know,
57:30
Speaker 1: maybe you could send Jesse an email. I don't want
57:32
Speaker 1: to say your email address publicly, I'm shameless. I'll give
57:34
Speaker 1: it to anybody, but.
57:36
Speaker 5: Jesse, Jesse at growingself dot com.
57:38
Speaker 1: Perfect get in touch, let us know you're interested, and
57:41
Speaker 1: maybe if we hear from enough people will do this
57:43
Speaker 1: sooner rather than later. But nonetheless, I hope that just
57:46
Speaker 1: having this conversation today was instructive for our friends listening
57:51
Speaker 1: around specific things to stop doing start doing.
57:56
Speaker 3: And I hope that you heard.
57:57
Speaker 1: The message of hope is that even if you've been
58:00
Speaker 1: stuck a long time, this can get a lot better.
58:05
Speaker 5: And things do not have to be the way they
58:07
Speaker 5: currently are.
58:08
Speaker 1: Right even if you feel powerless, you have so much agency. Well, Jesse,
58:29
Speaker 1: thank you so much for spending this time with me today.
58:32
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me back. I always
58:34
Speaker 5: love spending time with you here on the podcast, but
58:36
Speaker 5: I also get to talk to you every week because
58:39
Speaker 5: we get to facilitate so many groups together and it's
58:43
Speaker 5: always a joy.
58:45
Speaker 2: Thank you.
58:45
Speaker 5: Looking forward to the next time I get to.
58:47
Speaker 2: Do this same.
58:49
Speaker 1: Thank you and I will talk to you soon, and
58:51
Speaker 1: for all our friends listening.
58:52
Speaker 3: We'll be back in touch very soon.
58:54
Speaker 1: With another episode of love, happiness and success. I'm going
59:04
Speaker 1: going to