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Why Some People Are Easier to Destroy Than Others | with Mike Signorelli · Heaven & Healing Podcast

• 0:00
  Sin is crouching at your door, [music]
• 0:02
  but you must master it. The rejection is
• 0:04
  the knock. Offense is what [music]
• 0:06
  happens when you open the door. You
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  don't have to. You can be rejected, but
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  not be offended. [music]
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  >> I've been delivered from a spirit of
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  rejection, but I wasn't dealing with the
• 0:15
  wound that it left. You give [music]
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  someone with a rejection wound a
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  microphone, eventually it's going to
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  start [music] preaching. God is trying
• 0:23
  to raise up an unoffendable army in the
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  most [music] easily offended culture
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  arguably ever.
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  >> If your heart is not in a place [music]
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  where it is unoffendable, you're easy to
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  manipulate.
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  >> I was assessing in culture how murderous
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  America became in that era after Charlie
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  Kirk. They show you something that they
• 0:43
  know will offend you. You'll watch it
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  multiple times. You'll comment on it.
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  It'll serve you related content which
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  puts you in an echo chamber. And that's
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  how it gets darker and darker and
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  darker. Before you know it, you're like,
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  "Yeah, [music] you know what? Maybe a
• 0:56
  husband and a father should have died."
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  The spirit of murder was released in the
• 1:00
  earth to another degree. It's almost
• 1:02
  like the same crowd that chooses [music]
• 1:04
  Barabus over Jesus is the same crowd
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  online right now.
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  >> It's crazy. Scripture says, "The [music]
• 1:10
  gates of hell will not prevail against
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  my church." We're supposed to be arm and
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  arm locked, shoulderto-shoulder at the
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  [music] gates of hell. Instead of
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  locking arms, we're turned toward each
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  other like bickering. And all these lost
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  souls are walking right [music] past
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  straight through the gates of hell. The
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  gates of hell are prevailing over us.
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  >> If you don't seal and really [music]
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  deal with strongholds, deal with wounds,
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  you could end up in a seven times worse
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  condition.
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  >> She literally says like if you have
• 1:36
  unforgiveness, you get handed [music]
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  over to the tormentors. Like who's that?
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  [laughter]
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  >> Right.
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  Hey guys, welcome back to another
• 1:46
  episode of Heaven and Healing Podcast. I
• 1:48
  am so excited today. We have Pastor Mike
• 1:50
  Signarelli in the house. Honestly, it's
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  a long time coming. Yeah,
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  >> I've wanted you on the show for a while,
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  but I've just kind of been, you know,
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  waiting for I guess like the best
• 2:00
  opportunity. And I think that the
• 2:02
  release of your new book is that because
• 2:05
  okay, let me tell you, I
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  >> I started reading this and in my head
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  I'm like, I'm going to speedread this in
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  two nights because he's on the show and
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  I need to know what it says.
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  >> And the Holy Spirit has slowed me down
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  and been like, no, you can't speedread
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  this because actually there's so much in
• 2:23
  there for you that I didn't know was in
• 2:25
  there for me.
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  >> Um, so it is truly such a blessing. I'm
• 2:30
  only halfway through and I'm already
• 2:32
  like everybody I know needs to read
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  this. Like truly, I'm not just saying
• 2:35
  that cuz you're my friend. Like it's so
• 2:38
  anointed and it is such an important
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  word especially in this hour and
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  especially in the climate that we are
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  in.
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  >> So let me just start by asking well
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  actually let me welcome you first. Hi.
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  >> I know [laughter]
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  we just flow diving in.
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  >> Thank you for being here [laughter] by
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  the way. Um, let me ask you, what
• 3:02
  how did this come to be? Such
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  >> a great question. What made you decide
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  like this needs to happen?
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  >> Yeah. So, I moved to New York to start a
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  church. I'm from the Midwest. And in the
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  mid Midwest, we pretend to be nice, but
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  we're mean. But then in in New York,
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  they pretend to be mean, but they're
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  nice. And like, I don't know if that
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  makes sense. Like
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  >> because I'm from Philly, so
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  >> Yeah. So, you kind of known like there's
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  that rough exterior. And then I started
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  growing our church and we we you know
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  just baptizing Muslims and people who
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  are in the new age and Hindus and
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  agnostics and Catholics like just all
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  baptizing them all in water, baptizing
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  in the spirit through Christ and this
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  church starts multiplying by disciples.
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  And then I start realizing like how much
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  everybody struggles with offense. So
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  that was kind of like the in the early
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  days of our church. I'm like I need to
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  talk about offense. Like this is the the
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  quickest way to stop a revival. Um, it's
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  is a fence. And I was thinking about
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  Brownsville revival. It was like
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  historically the longest standard
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  revival in in America. And the thing
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  that did it in wasn't gifting. It wasn't
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  anointing. It wasn't people not being
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  able to move in power. It literally was
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  leaders becoming offended with each
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  other. And so that so early on I started
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  thinking about this concept. And while I
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  was in prayer, I started thinking about
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  the heart of Christ because, you know,
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  scripture says that our heart is
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  deceitfully wicked above all things.
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  >> And so I started thinking about the
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  heart of Christ and that moment where
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  he's on the cross and he's looking at
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  the people actively murdering him. And
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  he's like, "Father, forgive them for
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  they know not what they do." And I was
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  like, "We need that heart in New York."
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  >> Like because the Midwesterners need it.
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  The Northeastern people need it. So
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  that's how it started. So I actually
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  preached a series within the first
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  couple years of our church called the
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  unoffendable heart and then kind of put
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  it on the shelf um and then years later
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  the Lord was like Mike that is for the
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  whole body of Christ now. So with that
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  urgency I I wrote the book.
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  >> Yeah. It's amazing.
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  >> So let me ask you like what have you had
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  to go through
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  >> because you know
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  you have to like go through what you're
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  meant to
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  to teach. Yeah. And what you're anointed
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  in. So, how how did the Lord have to
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  like work on your heart in this arena?
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  >> Oh, yeah. The I told you this offline,
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  but like the irony of this book is I was
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  the president of the offended people
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  club. Like I mean, I was one of the most
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  offended. People also don't know this.
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  Like in the 2010s, I was like a heresy
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  hunter type.
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  >> I can't see that.
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  >> I know. [laughter] I know. That's what
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  I'm saying. Like when I was uh in my
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  20s,
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  >> I really struggled deeply with offense.
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  Even even as a pastor, like I got
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  ordained early on, and part of it was
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  like my story. So like I had uh multiple
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  abusive stepfathers. My my biological
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  father committed manslaughter and then
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  died prematurely. So even in the
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  earliest inception of me going into
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  ministry, I would get so triggered by
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  being around other men
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  >> and I would think like, well, your dad's
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  a pastor and you know, so I had I just
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  had a lot. And then um I would I had a
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  friend who was a megaurch pastor in
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  Florida and when I would go through
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  difficult things I would reach out to
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  him and he would ghost me. And so I'd be
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  like, "Oh, I get it. Like you're a
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  megaurch pastor. I'm not important
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  enough. I'm not famous enough for you to
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  reach back out to me." And like I really
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  struggle with that. So this is back in
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  the day where there was really only
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  Twitter and Facebook. And Facebook was
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  more of like relational. And so I had my
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  own website. I'm not going to say what
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  it is cuz people will go into the way
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  back machine and look all this stuff up
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  cuz I've deleted it. But I literally
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  would blog about other pastors
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  >> and call them out. And I thought at the
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  time that I stood for justice. I thought
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  that I was like a real pastor, a real
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  minister, and all these people were
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  fake. And I kind of had that persona. I
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  people jokingly called me Johnny Cash in
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  that day because it was like that was my
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  persona. Like the Johnny Cash guy. Like
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  yeah, I believe in the gospel. We had a
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  hashtag called outlaw preachers.
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  Literally, it's all cringe now. Like,
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  [laughter] but but like it was like
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  we're the outlaw preachers and we're not
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  like the celebrity pastor types. And
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  this was this all predates like YouTube,
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  Christian YouTube in the way it is now.
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  >> So, we have that era.
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  >> Then, um I don't know. I was a big- time
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  victim because I was raised in poverty.
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  And so in my mind it was like there was
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  this tilted table and it was like I'm
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  never going to have what other people
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  have. My life's never going to be like
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  their life. I can and I just I'm I'm
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  telling you my heart was like a idolatry
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  breeding factory like all day and night.
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  Everything made me angry. Everything
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  made me upset. I was a victim. So I
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  dealt with that. Then my dad dies and
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  then my pastor has an infidelity where
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  with the woman that he was sleeping with
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  actually slipped a manila envelope under
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  the church door and with the proof of
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  their relationship and that whole
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  situation happened. Then at the same
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  time my other friend who was a pastor
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  his wife cheated on him. So my entire
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  male infrastructure imploded all at the
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  same time [snorts]
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  >> and I was already dealing with offense.
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  So then it put it in hyperdrive. And
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  what's crazy is I really dealt with that
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  all the way until I launched my church,
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  which is crazy to say out loud, but I
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  guess I might as well own it now.
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  >> So then I get to New York despite all of
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  this, start our church. Our church bank
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  account had like 50 grand in it and it
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  was going down every single Sunday cuz I
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  just New York is so expensive.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> And our church I led everybody to Christ
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  myself. So it wasn't like I had a church
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  full of all these people who know how to
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  give and were generous and all that. So
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  they're and they're doing what they can.
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  They're all like in their 20s at the
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  time. So I'm watching our finances
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  decrease every week. And then we're in
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  this, you know, crazy New York
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  environment financially. And then I saw
• 8:55
  these other pastors cuz this is like the
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  Hill Song heyday in New York City. And
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  I'm watching these guys who like come
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  from multigenerational ministry families
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  and church budgets with millions of
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  dollars coming to New York City. And and
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  so my heart again just overflowing with
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  offense. And one of the early stories
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  that got me free from this stuff before
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  I preached it to my church was there was
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  one pastor that I just every time I
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  would see his preaching clips, I would
• 9:21
  get super angry at him because he had a
• 9:24
  dad who was a pastor. He had a big
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  budget to plant his church. And I
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  remember the Lord speaking to me saying,
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  "You need to fight a spirit with an
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  opposite spirit."
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  >> And he was like, and so in my mind, I
• 9:35
  was like, "I'm not liking this guy's
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  content. I'm not going to gas him up.
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  I'm not going to comment. And the Lord
• 9:40
  was like, "Yes, you are." Like every
• 9:42
  single time this guy shows up in your
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  feed. You are. Because he wasn't saying
• 9:46
  anything heretical. He was the guy was a
• 9:49
  good guy and he was trying try. It's
• 9:51
  just I wanted his life and I didn't have
• 9:54
  it and I felt like my life was so
• 9:56
  unfair. So what happened was I starting
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  and liking um all of his posts,
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  commenting them. Bro, great word. And
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  then he jumps into my DMs one day and he
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  was like, "Hey, I want to apologize to
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  you." And I was freaked out by that. And
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  I'm like, "Why? Like, what?" And he was
• 10:11
  like, "I I've been so jealous of you."
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  And I'm reading this in real time. Like,
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  and and I'm like, "I'm I'm jealous of
• 10:18
  you, bro. Like, what are you what do I
• 10:20
  even have that you would be jealous of?"
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  And he literally says, "Because my dad
• 10:25
  was a pastor, now that I've launched my
• 10:27
  own church, I feel like he controls my
• 10:29
  church and all the decisions and I kind
• 10:31
  of have to do what he says because I'm
• 10:34
  second generation." And when you came to
• 10:35
  New York City and were able to do
• 10:37
  whatever you wanted to do with your
• 10:38
  church, I've been holding a grudge
• 10:40
  against you. And not only that, but when
• 10:42
  I listen to you preach, I feel like I'll
• 10:43
  never be as good of a preacher as you.
• 10:46
  So, what I didn't know the whole time is
• 10:48
  that he had this major insecurity about
• 10:50
  preaching. a major insecurity about his
• 10:52
  dad leading his ministry. Then when I
• 10:54
  started liking and hearting all of his
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  posts and commenting, it was like I was
• 10:59
  breaking something off of both of us.
• 11:01
  >> Wow.
• 11:01
  >> So
• 11:03
  I start crying reading this guy's
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  messages. And by the way, this isn't in
• 11:07
  the book. This is kind of like bonus
• 11:09
  material, but but it's how the book came
• 11:12
  to be because
• 11:14
  >> I'm weeping and then I'm also being
• 11:16
  rebuked
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  >> because I'm like the affirmation that he
• 11:19
  needed the most was about his preaching
• 11:22
  and he regarded me as a really good
• 11:24
  preacher and about his leadership and he
• 11:26
  regards me as a good leader and offense
• 11:29
  blinded me from seeing my own blessing
• 11:32
  and and offense blinded him from seeing
• 11:34
  his own blessing. So he couldn't honor
• 11:37
  his dad and I couldn't honor my
• 11:39
  fatherlessness.
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  >> Wow.
• 11:41
  >> Like because in in my fatherlessness the
• 11:44
  blessing was well I got to be the
• 11:46
  pioneer. But in him having a father his
• 11:48
  blessing was that he gets an inheritance
• 11:50
  and a lineage a Christian lineage. And
• 11:53
  offense bind blinded both of us to our
• 11:55
  own blessing.
• 11:56
  >> Wow.
• 11:57
  >> And that's when it started making me
• 11:58
  realize like I'm not a victim. like what
• 12:01
  these different parts of my story, God
• 12:03
  is uniquely allowing me to um have a
• 12:06
  blessing hidden inside of it.
• 12:08
  >> Yeah. And so right around the time when
• 12:10
  I started getting massive freedom cuz
• 12:12
  everything started unraveling and you
• 12:13
  know like when you deal with like
• 12:15
  complex trauma and things it's like this
• 12:17
  ball of yarn and it's this massive knot
• 12:20
  and it was like that story kind of
• 12:21
  pulled a string and then things started
• 12:24
  unraveling and I went on this journey
• 12:25
  and about two years into our church
• 12:27
  after I felt like I was totally free
• 12:29
  from offense I preached the sermon
• 12:31
  series the unoffendable heart
• 12:33
  >> and then years later I wrote the book.
• 12:36
  So, it's been a long road for me. Like,
• 12:39
  I I I feel like Paul when he's like, "If
• 12:42
  I boast in anything, it's in my
• 12:43
  weakness." Because I'm like the Pharisee
• 12:46
  killing Christians. Like, I'm like the
• 12:48
  dude who was offended writing the book
• 12:50
  like, "Hey, let's all become
• 12:51
  unoffendable." Like, it's so ironic. You
• 12:53
  have no idea. My wife and I think this
• 12:55
  is hilarious. [laughter]
• 12:58
  >> Something I was thinking about while you
• 12:59
  were talking is how I see this now more
• 13:03
  than ever too with, you know, the
• 13:05
  internet. Yeah.
• 13:06
  >> Is that a lot of the time we don't
• 13:08
  actually see people as they are. We see
• 13:10
  them as we are
• 13:12
  >> and then we project that
• 13:15
  >> and then it gives us a literal blindness
• 13:17
  where we can't even consider like
• 13:20
  >> what are they going through? What are
• 13:21
  they walking through? What do they need?
• 13:23
  How do I show them the love of the
• 13:26
  father? And it just it hardens our heart
• 13:28
  completely.
• 13:30
  >> And then we can't connect. And even you
• 13:32
  telling that story, I'm thinking about,
• 13:34
  you know, scripture, iron sharpens iron.
• 13:36
  That's what y'all did for each other
• 13:38
  when you got through that barrier of
• 13:39
  offense when your heart was softened.
• 13:41
  And so you could connect heart to heart.
• 13:44
  >> And I think like I just wonder how often
• 13:48
  >> how many connections there could be
• 13:50
  right now, even in the Christian space,
• 13:54
  that aren't being made.
• 13:55
  >> Yeah.
• 13:56
  iron that's not sharpening iron because
• 13:59
  there's a barricade of offense there and
• 14:02
  an unwillingness to deal with the wound.
• 14:05
  Yeah.
• 14:05
  >> That offense birsth.
• 14:08
  >> That's like I love
• 14:09
  >> so good.
• 14:10
  >> I love how you're talking about that in
• 14:12
  your book. Like offense is really the
• 14:13
  symptom.
• 14:14
  >> Yes, it is.
• 14:16
  >> So what's the root?
• 14:17
  >> I think there's multiple roots, right?
• 14:19
  Amen.
• 14:19
  >> So it's like one of them could be
• 14:21
  rejection like um over the years. So
• 14:23
  this I'll tell one of my wife's stories.
• 14:25
  So my wife can sing really good and
• 14:28
  she's anointed to sing.
• 14:30
  >> And so there were many years where she
• 14:32
  kind of had this vision for like
• 14:33
  prophetic worship. But again, because
• 14:36
  we're like old millennials, there was a
• 14:38
  time before Bethl.
• 14:40
  >> There was a time when that there weren't
• 14:41
  live streams showing prophetic worship.
• 14:44
  So my wife was sort of like a precursor
• 14:46
  to all that. And there was like a
• 14:48
  ministry called Morning Star and these
• 14:50
  different ministries that kind of like
• 14:52
  dabble in doing unscripted worship. But
• 14:56
  you but ma the mainline evangelical
• 14:58
  churches, the non-denom, the Pentecostal
• 15:00
  churches, even 20 years ago, 25 years
• 15:03
  ago, they did the song the way it was
• 15:05
  written and they put their
• 15:06
  transparencies up and you would like
• 15:08
  actually go through the worship. And so
• 15:10
  when Julie would step into this other
• 15:12
  realm of worship and like what is the
• 15:15
  spirit saying? Like what what things
• 15:17
  should we be declaring and saying
• 15:19
  through this? It was like the whole
• 15:20
  church would go in and they would love
• 15:22
  it. But then the people on the worship
• 15:25
  team like like the other older worship
• 15:27
  leaders would start getting extremely
• 15:29
  agitated because they would see the way
• 15:32
  that people reacted to Julie leading
• 15:34
  worship.
• 15:34
  >> And back in the day, like this is before
• 15:37
  LED walls, they would literally put my
• 15:39
  wife behind the projection screen.
• 15:42
  >> And like when we got older, we realized
• 15:44
  like that was jealousy. Like Julie was
• 15:47
  operating in power. She was um
• 15:49
  worshiping in spirit and in truth. She
• 15:51
  was pioneering. And instead of being in
• 15:53
  an environment that provoked her to do
• 15:56
  more of it be, she was in an environment
• 15:58
  that put a lid on her and and physically
• 16:00
  hid her behind a projection screen.
• 16:03
  >> Wow.
• 16:03
  >> And so it's like, so for Julie, she has
• 16:06
  two options. She could have
• 16:08
  deconstructed. She could have um again,
• 16:11
  she could have became a hater. She could
• 16:13
  have been a blogger. She could have
• 16:15
  called it out. Um or she could become a
• 16:18
  builder. And I think like that's the
• 16:20
  like do you want to be a blogger or a
• 16:22
  builder? And it's like so we built a
• 16:24
  church where we can worship freely and
• 16:28
  and but that required Julie to receive
• 16:30
  the rejection but not turn the rejection
• 16:33
  into offense. And if you go back to
• 16:35
  Genesis, it says sin is crouching at
• 16:38
  your door, but you must master it. And
• 16:41
  so when I think about that verse, it's
• 16:42
  like the rejection is the knock,
• 16:46
  >> but offense is what happens when you
• 16:48
  open the door. So it's like you don't
• 16:50
  have to, you can be rejected, but not be
• 16:53
  offended. And that's the story of
• 16:55
  Joseph.
• 16:56
  >> Yeah.
• 16:56
  >> Joseph is like perpetually being
• 16:58
  rejected, but he just says, "I'm going
• 17:01
  to remain sweet instead of becoming
• 17:03
  bitter." And what's crazy is like it
• 17:06
  wasn't just one rejection. It was almost
• 17:08
  every season of his of his life into
• 17:10
  adulthood. And yet it's I really look at
• 17:13
  the story of Joseph as I'm not going to
• 17:15
  allow rejection to turn into offense and
• 17:18
  therefore I'm going to be elevated into
• 17:20
  goan and and then I'm going to spend
• 17:21
  many more years of my life being
• 17:23
  celebrated than rejected. And so I think
• 17:26
  with Julie now when she was in the movie
• 17:29
  it probably hits different for people
• 17:30
  who know our story now especially here
• 17:33
  in the podcast but to fill movie
• 17:35
  theaters across the US and she
• 17:38
  like she's not hidden behind the
• 17:40
  projector screen, she's being projected
• 17:42
  on it.
• 17:44
  >> Like it's like but people don't know
• 17:46
  that part of the story. It's like so
• 17:48
  when Julie gets the big moment in the
• 17:50
  movie where she comes up and she's like
• 17:52
  you know you have not forgotten me.
• 17:56
  Think about that line. You haven't
• 17:58
  forgotten me but I'm the girl that they
• 18:00
  hid in worship. And now all of a sudden
• 18:03
  I'm in the movie that's being projected
• 18:05
  on all the screens and the people that
• 18:07
  hid me aren't even in church anymore.
• 18:09
  >> So it's like this book to me carries a
• 18:11
  weight cuz our family has had to walk
• 18:14
  through so many even for me like
• 18:16
  preaching good
• 18:18
  >> created the fear of man in me at one
• 18:20
  season because of all the male
• 18:22
  competition the testosterone driven
• 18:25
  striving that happens in these
• 18:26
  orphanages we call church. and that I
• 18:29
  would go up there and do a good job and
• 18:31
  not realize that doing a good job in
• 18:33
  some churches is bad because they'll
• 18:35
  cause people to not like you.
• 18:37
  >> And so like for me it was like I thought
• 18:40
  I didn't think this was a competition.
• 18:42
  And so when I started V1 Church I was
• 18:44
  like I I carried in the wounds of Saul
• 18:48
  throwing javelins at me, you know, and
• 18:51
  then I realized like what would it look
• 18:52
  like in my church if I want people to
• 18:54
  preach better than me? Like what if I
• 18:56
  become the pastor where it's like the
• 18:58
  goal is that I'm the worst pastor by the
• 19:00
  time I die
• 19:02
  >> like like you know what I'm saying? Like
• 19:03
  but that's not the goal of most
• 19:05
  churches.
• 19:06
  >> It's it's usually this one man show. But
• 19:09
  don't but my point in even bringing it
• 19:10
  up is like I don't think that my ego
• 19:13
  would have ever let me build that kind
• 19:15
  of church had I not been destroyed by
• 19:17
  other pastors. You I don't know if that
• 19:20
  makes sense.
• 19:20
  >> No 100%. So like some of the the best
• 19:23
  things about me would have only been
• 19:25
  cultivated through rejection.
• 19:28
  >> But it but the key is don't metabolize
• 19:30
  rejection into offense, which is what I
• 19:33
  did.
• 19:34
  >> That's real
• 19:35
  >> because because I was like, you know
• 19:36
  what? You're going to compete with me.
• 19:38
  So
• 19:39
  >> it and it it's like it didn't stop me
• 19:41
  from preaching, but it would be like,
• 19:43
  well, but I'm never going to be one of
• 19:45
  those guys, so I'm going to go preach in
• 19:46
  the streets or I'm going to preach and
• 19:48
  da da da. So, I started, but then it
• 19:50
  became this other alternative form of
• 19:52
  pride. You know what I'm saying?
• 19:54
  >> It's like inverted pride. Yeah.
• 19:55
  >> It was like Yes. inverted is literally
• 19:57
  the word I use because it was like there
• 19:59
  were years of my life I never filmed
• 20:02
  anything. I would sell my clothes at
• 20:04
  consignment shops and go and pay my own
• 20:06
  way to do ministry assignments, minister
• 20:09
  to thousands of people. And then I
• 20:10
  prided myself in being the guy who had
• 20:12
  no website, no video footage of it. And
• 20:15
  and I would but then the thing is the
• 20:17
  Lord was like but Mike that's also pride
• 20:19
  cuz you think you're better than the
• 20:21
  other guys for a different reason.
• 20:23
  >> So real.
• 20:24
  >> It's like it's like and so for me I just
• 20:26
  kept getting checkmated by the Holy
• 20:28
  Spirit for the last 20 years. And like
• 20:31
  and this book is really the result of
• 20:33
  surrender.
• 20:34
  >> Yeah.
• 20:35
  >> Because even the pandemic, think about
• 20:37
  it. I started my church being the guy
• 20:39
  who was like I don't take honorariums. I
• 20:42
  pay my own way. I don't film it. I don't
• 20:44
  want to be on social media. Then that's
• 20:46
  pride.
• 20:47
  >> It's still pride. It's still a form of
• 20:49
  pride. Then I start three churches in
• 20:52
  three years in New York and then the
• 20:54
  global pandemic shuts them all down and
• 20:56
  I don't own my buildings. And it's my
• 20:58
  wife saying, "Mike, you have to go live
• 21:00
  online." And like it was pride that was
• 21:03
  going to stop it. And now millions of
• 21:06
  people have received ministry because I
• 21:07
  stopped being prideful. So, it's it's
• 21:09
  weird how like and a lot of what I talk
• 21:11
  about in the book is we want to hold
• 21:14
  that gavvel so badly for real.
• 21:16
  >> Like we want to be the judge so badly
• 21:18
  and my hand like claved to that gavel
• 21:22
  and I just I I the it's my life is a
• 21:25
  story of letting that thing go.
• 21:26
  >> Yeah.
• 21:27
  >> Hey, quick interruption because if you
• 21:29
  enjoy listening to heaven and healing
• 21:30
  and you've ever wished that we could go
• 21:32
  deeper than we do here on the podcast,
• 21:34
  that is why I created Lost and Found.
• 21:37
  Lost and Found is our private Christian
• 21:39
  community for people just like you who
• 21:41
  don't only want to consume Christian
• 21:43
  content, but you actually want to live
• 21:46
  this thing [music] out. We meet over
• 21:48
  there every Tuesday night at 8:00 p.m.
• 21:50
  Central time for live classes,
• 21:52
  workshops, Q&As's, book club, guest
• 21:55
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• 21:58
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• 22:00
  challenged, to be sharpened, and
• 22:02
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• 22:05
  walk this thing out with, then come join
• 22:07
  us at Lost and [music] Found. You can
• 22:09
  find the link in the description below
• 22:11
  or simply scan the QR code on the
• 22:13
  screen. [music] I'll see you over there.
• 22:15
  The Lord has been doing so much in me
• 22:18
  with this exact topic for the last
• 22:21
  really like seven months. Um, so
• 22:25
  something that he revealed to me toward
• 22:27
  the end of my pregnancy, I was like
• 22:30
  hustling to create as much content as I
• 22:32
  possibly could cuz I wanted batch
• 22:34
  recordings so that I could take a couple
• 22:36
  months off.
• 22:39
  But underneath that, you know, desire to
• 22:42
  rest, be with my babies was actually I
• 22:44
  was incredibly burnt out and I was sick
• 22:46
  of doing this.
• 22:47
  >> Yeah. And it's because I didn't know
• 22:49
  this then, but in retrospect, it's
• 22:51
  because what I had allowed to happen is
• 22:55
  over time, it didn't happen overnight,
• 22:57
  but over time, the comments and the
• 23:00
  criticisms and the this and you're
• 23:03
  you're false and women shouldn't preach
• 23:05
  and blah blah blah blah blah, like all
• 23:06
  of that.
• 23:08
  >> Okay. I had a rejection wound.
• 23:10
  >> Yeah.
• 23:11
  >> That really needed healing.
• 23:12
  >> Yeah. And I've been delivered from a
• 23:14
  spirit of rejection, but I wasn't
• 23:16
  dealing with the wound that it left.
• 23:19
  >> That's it.
• 23:20
  >> And so you give someone with a rejection
• 23:23
  wound a microphone, eventually
• 23:26
  >> Mhm.
• 23:26
  >> it's going to start preaching if it's
• 23:28
  not dealt with.
• 23:30
  >> And so I did start to metabolize those
• 23:32
  comments and the criticisms. And over
• 23:35
  time, what happened was my burden that I
• 23:39
  had for the people, it became a burden
• 23:42
  of the people. I started to hate the I
• 23:45
  would literally sit up here talk to I
• 23:48
  hate these religious people. Like that's
• 23:50
  what's in my heart. So out of the
• 23:52
  abundance of my heart, guess what's
• 23:54
  coming out on camera? It's literal
• 23:56
  hatred. And I started making content for
• 23:59
  the naysayers instead of making people
• 24:02
  the content for people that needed to be
• 24:04
  set free. I'm like trying to convince
• 24:06
  people of like this doctrine, that
• 24:08
  doctrine.
• 24:09
  >> And then I completely lose the plot. I
• 24:11
  lose the assignment of what God called
• 24:13
  me to do because I started to do it in
• 24:15
  my own understanding and started to go
• 24:16
  my own way and stopped consulting with
• 24:18
  him, stopped spending as much time with
• 24:20
  him as I was and just trying to put
• 24:22
  together the best argument so that I
• 24:24
  could win the argument. And I stopped
• 24:25
  caring about winning souls even though
• 24:26
  I'm like
• 24:28
  >> I'm using that as the
• 24:30
  >> yeah,
• 24:31
  >> you know, kind of masquerade as like I'm
• 24:32
  still doing the work of God. Everything
• 24:34
  I was preaching was still theologically
• 24:36
  correct, still using scripture, but it's
• 24:38
  like I'm not using it as a sword
• 24:40
  anymore. I'm sort of using it as a
• 24:42
  hammer to beat you over the head to get
• 24:44
  my point across.
• 24:45
  >> And that offense completely took me
• 24:47
  over. And so I started to get really
• 24:49
  bitter. And then what's interesting is I
• 24:52
  even remember talking about this with
• 24:53
  you guys when we were in New York in
• 24:55
  April that like oh the algorithm's funky
• 24:57
  like my content's getting suppressed.
• 24:59
  It's like some of that was true, but
• 25:01
  it's also like God kind of pulling back
• 25:03
  the blessing cuz he's like no you're out
• 25:05
  you're out of alignment. I'm not
• 25:07
  >> I'm not letting you do this
• 25:09
  >> and me screaming at God, why is this
• 25:10
  happening? It's like have you looked in
• 25:12
  the mirror? Like maybe stop blaming the
• 25:14
  algorithm. Maybe stop blaming the people
• 25:16
  in your comment section and take some
• 25:18
  responsibility for how much of this
• 25:19
  you've actually invited in because
• 25:22
  you're telling that story with jewelry,
• 25:24
  right? She could have invited the
• 25:25
  rejection in. And what happens is when
• 25:27
  you partner with that, you you do
• 25:29
  attract more of it and I was doing that.
• 25:31
  I'm like attracting more of it because
• 25:32
  I'm again creating content for the
• 25:35
  people that want to reject me that are
• 25:36
  committed to misunderstanding me. I'm
• 25:38
  never going to break through to you
• 25:40
  anyway,
• 25:40
  >> right?
• 25:41
  >> So what am I doing? Yeah.
• 25:43
  >> Stop trying to cast the net to be a
• 25:45
  fisher of men and start just like
• 25:47
  casting stones at people.
• 25:49
  >> I lost the plot. And so over the summer,
• 25:53
  you know, I was kind of wrestling with a
• 25:55
  lot like do I even want to like get back
• 25:57
  on camera cuz my maternity leave really
• 25:59
  turned into like a sbatical where I'm
• 26:01
  just not coming back. Like it's and you
• 26:04
  know we had some other stuff happen.
• 26:05
  Computer broke. We needed a new
• 26:06
  computer. like all this stuff, but at
• 26:09
  the root of it was really just
• 26:12
  God needed to deal with the offense in
• 26:15
  my heart and he did in a major way. It
• 26:18
  does not feel good. I'm at the part of
• 26:21
  the book I just got through where you're
• 26:23
  talking about the cave. I'm like,
• 26:24
  >> "Oh yeah,
• 26:26
  >> that cave [laughter]
• 26:27
  was not a fun place to be."
• 26:31
  >> Wow. I definitely felt like Elijah like
• 26:33
  straight up like, "God, I just want to
• 26:34
  Can I just like die? This is brutal.
• 26:37
  He's like, "Have a snack and take a
• 26:38
  nap." You know, [laughter]
• 26:41
  >> but it it did get to a point where
• 26:44
  at some point, and you know, my husband
• 26:46
  is like, "You can't run from your
• 26:47
  calling." And leaders in my life, you
• 26:50
  can't run from your calling. Like God
• 26:52
  doesn't want your perfection. He just
• 26:53
  wants your obedience. And
• 26:56
  >> after he had really dealt with that like
• 26:58
  orphan spirit, the rejection wound, the
• 27:01
  offense thing, and like excavate in my
• 27:04
  heart, I was able to come back in front
• 27:06
  of the camera and like the anointing was
• 27:08
  there again, and the love was there
• 27:10
  again, and the compassion was there
• 27:12
  again. And it's like,
• 27:13
  >> I know then, you know, the criticism is
• 27:15
  always going to come. It's just like the
• 27:16
  nature of what we do, especially when
• 27:18
  we're
• 27:19
  >> preaching the totality of the gospel and
• 27:22
  deliverance and the gifts and all the
• 27:23
  things, right? So, but it's like
• 27:25
  respectfully just okay, you're not going
• 27:28
  to get you're going to get like a
• 27:29
  blessing in a block now. I'm not going
• 27:31
  to I'm not going to make a whole video.
• 27:33
  >> Yeah.
• 27:34
  >> For you.
• 27:35
  >> Yeah.
• 27:36
  >> And it's been so incredibly freeing to
• 27:39
  get back to the heart of what God
• 27:42
  birthed in me when this whole thing
• 27:44
  started. And it's also been super
• 27:47
  revealing of
• 27:50
  kind of the propensity I had when I
• 27:52
  first came to Christ of wanting to sort
• 27:55
  of bypass the process because, you know,
• 27:58
  in new age, I was all about healing and
• 28:00
  the process and this and that. And so
• 28:02
  when I came to Christ, I guess I just
• 28:06
  was like, well, I've arrived.
• 28:07
  >> I'm born again. Right?
• 28:09
  >> It's like, hello. Jesus went into the
• 28:10
  wilderness immediately after his baptism
• 28:12
  to defeat Satan and
• 28:15
  And so what I've recognized is how much
• 28:17
  of that there is in the church of like
• 28:19
  this desire to bypass the healing
• 28:22
  process. And now we do have all these
• 28:25
  offended hearts that are truly unable to
• 28:30
  cast the nets because we're so busy
• 28:33
  casting stones. I even had this vision
• 28:34
  the other day of um you know the the
• 28:38
  scripture says that
• 28:40
  the gates of hell will not prevail
• 28:42
  against my church. And what's his
• 28:45
  church? It's his body. Yeah.
• 28:47
  >> It's his body. And so we're supposed to
• 28:49
  be like arm in arm locked. Yeah.
• 28:52
  >> Locked and loaded like shouldertosh
• 28:55
  shoulder at the gates of hell. Nothing's
• 28:57
  going to prevail. But we are instead of
• 29:00
  locking arms, we're like turned toward
• 29:02
  each other like bickering. And all these
• 29:04
  lost souls are walking right past
• 29:07
  straight through the gates of hell
• 29:08
  because
• 29:10
  >> the gates of hell are prevailing over
• 29:12
  us.
• 29:13
  >> We're not doing a good We're not doing
• 29:15
  our duty.
• 29:16
  >> We can't love them because we don't know
• 29:18
  how to love each other.
• 29:19
  >> Yeah.
• 29:20
  >> Can you talk about that?
• 29:21
  >> That is so good.
• 29:21
  >> Sorry for the 10 minutes.
• 29:23
  >> Don't ever apologize for that because
• 29:25
  we're just like we're on such a parallel
• 29:27
  journey. I even had some members of my
• 29:29
  church confront me a couple years ago
• 29:31
  and they were like, "Hey, we we're here.
• 29:34
  We love your preaching like, "We've
• 29:36
  never learned this much about the
• 29:37
  scriptures in in any other church, but
• 29:40
  can you stop talking about your haters?"
• 29:42
  And like when they said it, I was like,
• 29:44
  in my mind, I was like, "I don't even
• 29:46
  really hardly do that." Then I started
• 29:48
  like auditing myself
• 29:50
  >> and I was like, "Oh, that's all I bring
• 29:52
  up." But you know what it is? It's like
• 29:55
  a lot of times we ask God like increase
• 29:57
  our influence, increase, you know,
• 29:59
  because if we're going to do it, it's
• 30:00
  like, you know, God, you know, use us in
• 30:03
  a great and mighty way because the
• 30:05
  sacrifice is so great. But then all of a
• 30:07
  sudden, that comment section, it does
• 30:09
  get to us. And I think um for me, I'm in
• 30:12
  a season right now. I actually don't
• 30:14
  have any social media on my phone at
• 30:16
  all. It took me about
• 30:17
  >> so incredibly healthy.
• 30:18
  >> Oh, it took me about two and a half
• 30:20
  weeks to do it. I felt like I was a
• 30:22
  crackhead, like leaning myself off of
• 30:24
  drugs, which is crazy cuz I don't
• 30:26
  consume nearly as much as most people,
• 30:28
  but and I don't think everybody should
• 30:31
  uh delete social media off their phone.
• 30:33
  It's just for me, I I had to make a
• 30:36
  decision like am I going to be inspired
• 30:38
  or be the inspiration? Like, am I going
• 30:41
  to react or am I going to create the
• 30:44
  thing that you react to? And it's like
• 30:46
  re like reversing that role because in
• 30:48
  the early days of me being online, I
• 30:50
  didn't really consume that much. I would
• 30:52
  just wake up, okay, Lord, what do you
• 30:53
  want me to say and say it? I didn't care
• 30:55
  about trends. I didn't care about it was
• 30:57
  like whatever is trending in the spirit
• 30:59
  realm is what is trending to me. Amen.
• 31:01
  >> And I've been fighting lately to get
• 31:02
  back to that place. And I felt like the
• 31:05
  same thing like V1 Church only plateaued
• 31:07
  one time in 10 years. And it was when I
• 31:09
  wouldn't stop talking about the people
• 31:11
  talking about me. And it was like
• 31:14
  because like you said and it was like
• 31:15
  when Jesus said I came for the sick
• 31:18
  >> and for and man I did a mass deliverance
• 31:20
  the other day uh just opened up a Zoom
• 31:23
  no money. I didn't want it. I was like I
• 31:25
  just felt like I felt like the timing
• 31:28
  was right and I was like I just want to
• 31:30
  open up a Zoom because I' I've actually
• 31:32
  trained many people to do deliverance.
• 31:33
  And as a result of that I was like man I
• 31:36
  I'm always casting out demons. That's a
• 31:37
  perpetual thing. But I hadn't done like
• 31:40
  a mass deliverance in a long time.
• 31:41
  >> Yeah. And I was like, uh, I said, you
• 31:44
  know, maybe it'll be good for me to
• 31:45
  demonstrate this to all of my leaders
• 31:47
  and just get back in the helm and do it.
• 31:50
  And man, Angela, over a thousand people
• 31:53
  showed up in this Zoom with little or
• 31:55
  no,
• 31:56
  >> I mean, we just barely talked about it.
• 31:57
  The whole thing filled up. And I was
• 31:59
  looking at all the tiles and just
• 32:01
  watching people get free for hours. And
• 32:04
  I was just weeping and weeping. I
• 32:06
  couldn't stop crying. Part of it was
• 32:08
  just the presence of God was so
• 32:09
  palpable, but the other part of it was I
• 32:12
  was like, "This is who I am."
• 32:14
  >> And like, I can expend the the same
• 32:16
  amount of energy setting the captives
• 32:19
  free as I can putting chains on myself.
• 32:22
  >> So true.
• 32:22
  >> It's like it's like it costs the same
• 32:24
  amount of energy to deal with your
• 32:26
  comments and all your stuff or to deal
• 32:28
  with demons and actually help people get
• 32:30
  free. And I just wept and I was like, I
• 32:33
  the ministry of Jesus through me is to
• 32:34
  set the captives free. And like um so
• 32:37
  yeah, I've been fighting to get back to
• 32:39
  that place. I think the unoffendable
• 32:41
  heart is not a process you finish. I
• 32:43
  think it's a recursive process. I think
• 32:46
  it's like clipping your nails like they
• 32:48
  grow back. I think it's like getting a
• 32:50
  haircut. You'll need another one.
• 32:51
  >> That's so good. You know, and I think
• 32:52
  for me the unoffendable heart has been
• 32:54
  this process of like and once I started
• 32:56
  focusing on ministry again and just like
• 32:59
  uh getting away from that. Yeah. V1 just
• 33:02
  it just people start showing up, things
• 33:04
  people get free, people get healed. But
• 33:07
  talking about deliverance, something I
• 33:08
  did want to say off of what you said is
• 33:11
  I think the thing that can potentially
• 33:12
  be um I want to use the right words
• 33:15
  here, but deliverance can give because
• 33:19
  it often gives an instant relief. That's
• 33:22
  what makes you feel like you don't need
• 33:24
  a process.
• 33:25
  >> That is so true
• 33:26
  >> because it's like you just instant I
• 33:28
  mean you get delivered and you're like,
• 33:29
  "Oh, I feel like 10 pounds just came off
• 33:31
  me." And so that instant relief could be
• 33:33
  a distraction from the process you need
• 33:35
  to go through.
• 33:36
  >> And I feel like the Lord was speaking to
• 33:38
  me like cuz somehow or another he raised
• 33:40
  me up as a major deliverance voice which
• 33:42
  was shocking to me cuz in my mind I was
• 33:44
  such a holistic minister that healing,
• 33:47
  deliverance, freedom, disciplehip, all
• 33:49
  that was one in my mind. Right.
• 33:51
  >> So, when I got sucked into the
• 33:52
  deliverance movement, my wife and I and
• 33:54
  people who know me thought it was sort
• 33:55
  of funny cuz they were like, "Well, I I
• 33:57
  I guess you've always done deliverance,
• 33:59
  but I never I didn't try to build a
• 34:01
  career off of it, right?"
• 34:02
  >> Like, I had no deliverance books. I had
• 34:05
  I at that point I didn't even have any
• 34:07
  videos. So, there was no deliverance
• 34:09
  videos. I hadn't even done a deliverance
• 34:11
  series at my own church. So when you
• 34:13
  think about me becoming like one of the
• 34:15
  four demon slayers, it was kind of
• 34:17
  ironic because I had no back catalog of
• 34:20
  evidence that I was trying to build a
• 34:22
  name in deliverance, which I always had
• 34:25
  told people that part of the reason why
• 34:26
  is I think I was called to rebuke it and
• 34:29
  reform it, not just instruct it.
• 34:32
  >> And that was I think part of that thing.
• 34:34
  But this unoffendable heart book I feel
• 34:36
  like is the second wave. So even when
• 34:39
  you said like I got delivered from a
• 34:42
  spirit of rejection but not healed from
• 34:44
  the wounds of it and an open wound is an
• 34:47
  open door,
• 34:48
  >> right?
• 34:48
  >> And like scripture is very clear that
• 34:50
  like if you don't seal and like really
• 34:52
  deal with strongholds, deal with wounds
• 34:54
  that you could end up in a seven times
• 34:56
  worse condition.
• 34:57
  >> And he literally says like if you have
• 34:58
  unforgiveness, you get handed over to
• 35:01
  the tormentors. Like who's that?
• 35:03
  >> Right. [laughter]
• 35:06
  >> Right. So I feel like there's something.
• 35:08
  So John Bevere wrote the forward of the
• 35:10
  book and he's a friend of mine and to be
• 35:12
  honest with you I was super intimidated
• 35:14
  to because he wrote the bait of Satan.
• 35:16
  That book has sold 6 million copies.
• 35:19
  It's regarded as like the end all beall
• 35:21
  on offense.
• 35:22
  >> And so when I finished the manuscript
• 35:24
  first of all I wept over it because I
• 35:26
  think some books are written and some
• 35:28
  books are received. Like that book was
• 35:31
  received. Like when I finished the
• 35:33
  manuscript, I was like, I don't feel
• 35:35
  like I wrote this. And I have an English
• 35:36
  degree, so that's saying a lot cuz I'm a
• 35:39
  writer by trade, you know, like I've I
• 35:41
  like that.
• 35:42
  >> Yeah. We bond over this.
• 35:43
  >> Yes. And so like that. And my other
• 35:46
  books, I definitely wrote those books.
• 35:48
  Like I labored over them. This one it
• 35:50
  was like I sat back and I was like,
• 35:52
  "Okay." So then I told my publisher, I'm
• 35:54
  going to see if John Bevere will write
• 35:56
  the forward. And my own publisher was
• 35:58
  like, "Hey, Mike, we love you, but like
• 36:00
  you understand that like that's crazy."
• 36:02
  And not only that, but it will directly
• 36:04
  compete against his own book on offense.
• 36:07
  And what author would do that? So I was
• 36:09
  like, "Whatever. I know."
• 36:10
  >> There's no competition in the kingdom
• 36:12
  collaboration. [clears throat]
• 36:13
  >> Yes. So I send the book to John Bevere
• 36:15
  and you know what he tells me? He was
• 36:17
  like, "Mike, my wife and I, Lisa, have
• 36:20
  been praying for years. Who's going to
• 36:22
  write this generation's bait of Satan?
• 36:24
  We need another book. We need another
• 36:26
  generation's book. And when you sent
• 36:28
  this, man, I got chills even saying it.
• 36:30
  He was like, "This is a confirmation of
• 36:33
  our prayers." So, you talk about
• 36:35
  collaboration instead of competition.
• 36:37
  But think about it. What if I was still
• 36:39
  cancel culture, Mike? What if I was
• 36:41
  like, you know what, John Bever's book,
• 36:43
  blah blah, I can do one better. like
• 36:45
  there's something connected to your next
• 36:47
  level in the things of the faith where
• 36:49
  it's like you have to be free of offense
• 36:52
  because I honored John and I was like,
• 36:54
  "Hey, I'm standing on your shoulders to
• 36:56
  bring this theme to another generation."
• 36:58
  But then he said, "Yeah, but my wife and
• 37:00
  I've been praying who's going to write
• 37:02
  this book." And when the publisher saw
• 37:03
  the forward come in, they were like,
• 37:05
  "Mike, we didn't even This goes against
• 37:07
  all the rules of publishing." And I'm
• 37:09
  like, "Yeah, but John and I aren't
• 37:11
  publishers. Like, we're prophetic
• 37:13
  voices. where you know like this is
• 37:15
  bigger than book sales. This is bigger
• 37:17
  and you remember like at the first
• 37:19
  breakers um at in Chicago I bought
• 37:22
  10,000 copies of my last book with my
• 37:25
  own personal savings and gave them away
• 37:26
  for free because I don't know how to
• 37:28
  sell stuff. Like I'm not a salesman.
• 37:31
  Like I don't know. And I even told my
• 37:33
  publisher, I don't want to do podcast
• 37:34
  tours. I don't want to do like I don't
• 37:36
  know how to do that stuff. Like I'll
• 37:38
  just buy 10,000 copies and give them
• 37:40
  away at my stadium event. That's
• 37:41
  literally what I did. Yeah.
• 37:43
  >> And then with that book, um I was in
• 37:46
  Southeast Asia ministering and brought
• 37:48
  some books to a conference and the a
• 37:51
  woman to smuggled the book into China,
• 37:54
  gave it to a family member who was over
• 37:57
  50 factions of a cult that was kind of
• 37:59
  like a new age cult. And you know, in
• 38:01
  Asian cultures, they're all about
• 38:02
  generational inheritance. And the book
• 38:05
  was all about generations. The guy gets
• 38:07
  radically saved, baptizes himself in his
• 38:10
  bathtub, and then literally um teaches
• 38:13
  the book to all 50 factions of his cult,
• 38:16
  shuts them down, tells them to all be
• 38:19
  Christians and be baptized, and then
• 38:20
  mysteriously dies 2 months later.
• 38:23
  >> Wow.
• 38:23
  >> But so the Lord was like telling me
• 38:24
  like, "No, Mike, there's favor on books.
• 38:27
  Books can get to places you can't get
• 38:29
  to." So like with this with unoffendable
• 38:32
  heart, I I just felt like Lord, there's
• 38:34
  favor on this. like it's it's bigger
• 38:37
  than book sales. It's it's a message
• 38:39
  that needs to get into into people's
• 38:41
  lives. And so, thank you. I so for
• 38:44
  helping me get the word out about it
• 38:46
  because I need it. You need it. We all
• 38:48
  need it. And going back to what I said
• 38:50
  about Brownsville, Dr. Michael Brown's a
• 38:52
  friend of mine. Other people I've talked
• 38:54
  to over the years that were a part about
• 38:55
  of that revival, they say people would
• 38:58
  fly out from many nations day after day.
• 39:01
  They would get healed in the parking lot
• 39:03
  before they came in. all these
• 39:04
  incredible stories and when you research
• 39:06
  why did it end it was offense and the
• 39:10
  Lord keeps telling me like I believe
• 39:11
  there is going to be a massive move of
• 39:13
  God but this book is the precursor
• 39:17
  because it's almost like the Lord's
• 39:18
  saying this time I don't want you guys
• 39:20
  to be the reason why it stops.
• 39:22
  >> That's so good.
• 39:23
  >> Like you we have to have an unoffendable
• 39:25
  heart to sustain what God's getting
• 39:28
  ready to release in the earth.
• 39:30
  >> It's real. And I think going back to
• 39:31
  what you were saying about how
• 39:33
  >> you kind of had this like era for lack
• 39:35
  of a better term of like deliverance and
• 39:38
  obviously that hasn't gone anywhere.
• 39:39
  >> Yeah.
• 39:40
  >> But I just see and I've only been you
• 39:41
  know in the faith for 5 years this
• 39:43
  December so I haven't seen like every
• 39:46
  movement happen in real time but I did
• 39:49
  see like the deliverance conversation be
• 39:53
  amplified when I actually came to terms
• 39:56
  with it. and everyone's getting
• 39:58
  deliverance and it's so necessary and
• 40:00
  demon slayer's voices are so needed
• 40:02
  because there's a true deficiency in the
• 40:04
  body of Christ with the conversation.
• 40:06
  Yeah. And what I see God has done since
• 40:08
  then, it's like, okay, he he's gotten us
• 40:10
  set free from the spirits because you
• 40:12
  can't, you know, you can't crucify a
• 40:14
  demon. So, it's got to get out.
• 40:15
  >> Yeah.
• 40:15
  >> It's got to get out. Um but now there's
• 40:18
  like a deficiency with the conversation
• 40:20
  of like the heart.
• 40:21
  >> Yes.
• 40:22
  >> And even like mental health.
• 40:24
  >> Yeah. And um our emotions like by and
• 40:27
  large like we we're all we're always
• 40:29
  talking about you know crucifying the
• 40:30
  flesh which we're called to do and
• 40:32
  self-denial which we're called to do.
• 40:33
  But we're not we're called to
• 40:34
  self-denial not like selfuppression
• 40:38
  >> you know you're not supposed to
• 40:40
  completely bypass your emotions. You're
• 40:42
  supposed to process them with the Lord.
• 40:45
  You you're supposed to be able to
• 40:46
  identify them like cast your anxieties
• 40:49
  to the Lord for he cares for you. That's
• 40:51
  not saying pretend you don't have
• 40:54
  anxiety and just like bypass it by
• 40:57
  slapping a Bible verse on top of it. No,
• 40:59
  it's like cast it to him. Say, Lord, I'm
• 41:02
  feeling this way right now. Like what's
• 41:04
  that about? What's happening inside of
• 41:06
  me right now, Lord? What is the root in
• 41:08
  my heart that you need to excavate? What
• 41:11
  do you need to deal with? And the Bible
• 41:12
  talks all about the heart. It talks all
• 41:15
  about the mind. And it's because it's
• 41:16
  such an important faculty in our ability
• 41:19
  to really be his witness.
• 41:22
  >> Yeah.
• 41:22
  >> So, how do you see that
• 41:24
  >> the enemy has um
• 41:26
  >> has like blinded the church
• 41:29
  >> the same way that he did with the
• 41:30
  conversation of deliverance to now the
• 41:32
  conversation of dealing with our heart.
• 41:34
  >> Yeah. So, you know what's so weird? What
• 41:37
  you just said? I preached last Sunday
• 41:39
  and and like man, [laughter] we're f
• 41:41
  like I I know we're always on the same
• 41:43
  page and even when we're both hurting,
• 41:45
  we hurt the same way. [laughter]
• 41:47
  We fail at the same time in the same
• 41:49
  way, too. It's weirdise.
• 41:50
  >> But like but jokes aside, like I
• 41:52
  literally preached that last Sunday.
• 41:54
  That's crazy.
• 41:54
  >> And one one of the things is like, you
• 41:56
  know, when people say, "Well, like I'm
• 41:57
  not I'm not sick or you know, don't say
• 41:59
  you're sick." And it's like,
• 42:00
  >> don't partner with it.
• 42:01
  >> Yeah. Don't partner with it. And it's
• 42:02
  like, no, no, hold on. That's a
• 42:03
  distortion of how to operate in
• 42:06
  alignment with scripture because how can
• 42:08
  God get glory from it if you've never
• 42:10
  named it? Like if you acted like it
• 42:13
  never existed, then you got healed. How
• 42:15
  can he get credit for healing you? It's
• 42:17
  like it was there were 10 lepers in
• 42:19
  front of them. They had to own the
• 42:21
  leprosy. Like yes, I'm a leper. That's
• 42:23
  the first step to getting healed from
• 42:25
  it. So good.
• 42:26
  >> You know, you don't hide it under your
• 42:27
  sleeve. Wow.
• 42:28
  >> Stretch forth your hand, your withered
• 42:30
  hand. like and when you stretch forth
• 42:33
  your withered hand then it's healed when
• 42:35
  you acknowledge it. And so I'm an
• 42:37
  extremely passionate Sicilian. I just
• 42:41
  Yeah, I know. We share that. I just
• 42:43
  tooured all of Italy. Uh some of the
• 42:45
  biggest pastors in the whole nation came
• 42:47
  together and they were like Italyy's in
• 42:49
  a turning point at a turning point now
• 42:51
  in their history and uh there's sort of
• 42:54
  a brain drain. So a lot of the most
• 42:56
  talented students go to other countries.
• 42:58
  uh it's becoming unsustainable for like
• 43:01
  the local populations. Um it's an aging
• 43:03
  population. So they're like in a crisis
• 43:05
  and they're a Catholic nation and so
• 43:08
  like so anyways they came together and
• 43:10
  they were like we need revival. So
• 43:12
  somehow or another in this twist of fate
• 43:15
  like cuz my family you know uh
• 43:18
  immigrated from Sicily to America they
• 43:21
  these pastors are like they prayed and
• 43:22
  they're like we want Mike to come. So
• 43:25
  this summer uh they orchestrated from
• 43:28
  north to south to Sicily the entire
• 43:31
  country for me to preach every major
• 43:33
  church. Wow.
• 43:34
  >> So that's what I did this last there's a
• 43:36
  reason why I'm saying that.
• 43:38
  >> So miracles broke out deliverance
• 43:41
  freedom stuff that they were like we
• 43:42
  haven't seen this in 40 years since the
• 43:44
  last generation. Um hundreds of people
• 43:46
  showed up that didn't even go to their
• 43:48
  churches that just knew me from the
• 43:50
  internet and that was a great
• 43:52
  encouragement. Then they joined the
• 43:53
  churches. It was like and I wept through
• 43:55
  the whole thing because I'm like, man,
• 43:56
  my family left this country and a few
• 43:58
  generations I came back and we're just
• 44:00
  bringing revival to the whole thing. But
• 44:02
  what I realiz is that like on an
• 44:04
  epigenetic level, some of the things
• 44:07
  that are me, it's just like, yeah, I'm
• 44:09
  passionate. Like just being in the
• 44:12
  Italian culture, I was like, everybody's
• 44:13
  as loud as me here and everybody talks
• 44:16
  as everybody cuts each other off when
• 44:18
  they talk. And like it was to the point
• 44:22
  where I was in the Rome airport getting
• 44:24
  ready to fly home after that month and I
• 44:26
  just started uncontrollably crying and I
• 44:28
  was like, why am I crying? And the Holy
• 44:29
  Spirit was like because you regulated
• 44:31
  your nervous system here. And like you
• 44:34
  there was something in my nervous system
• 44:36
  was like don't go back to America
• 44:38
  because the culture of Italy is like
• 44:40
  let's sit down and eat without our
• 44:42
  phones. Let's talk to each other. Let's
• 44:44
  look each other in the eyes. Let's cut
• 44:46
  each other off and not be offended about
• 44:47
  it. Let's hug each other and be like and
• 44:50
  I didn't realize that how much my body
• 44:53
  and my soul needed that.
• 44:55
  >> Wow. And so the reason why I say all
• 44:57
  that is because when you talked about
• 44:59
  self-suppression versus self-denial,
• 45:02
  it's like we're supposed to deny the
• 45:04
  carnal desires of our flesh that will
• 45:07
  lead to sin. But what about the
• 45:09
  non-carnal desires of our flesh that
• 45:12
  cooperate with our salvation? Wow.
• 45:14
  >> Like what about my desire to work out
• 45:17
  >> and do cardio or I mean for me it's
• 45:19
  riding my bike or playing hockey. like
• 45:21
  what if my flesh desires um to eat fresh
• 45:24
  seafood? You know what I'm trying to
• 45:26
  say? And I think so many of the
• 45:28
  conversations in Pentecostalism and the
• 45:30
  charismatic world are so binary, you
• 45:32
  know, and it's like crucify the flesh.
• 45:34
  Yeah, but you're crucifying, but you're
• 45:36
  not killing it because we still woke up
• 45:38
  today. So, what does that actually mean?
• 45:40
  And same thing emotionally. Like what
• 45:43
  are redeemed, healed, and whole emotions
• 45:45
  look like? you know, like what does it
• 45:48
  look like for me instead of denying my
• 45:50
  emotions or an intellect? Like I told my
• 45:53
  wife the other day, I was like, I'm not
• 45:55
  dumbing myself down for people anymore,
• 45:57
  >> you know, cuz like, you know what I
• 45:59
  mean? Like, and sometimes you feel like
• 46:01
  you have to dumb yourself down. And what
• 46:03
  does that look like? I remember being
• 46:04
  with Tim Keller, who is arguably like
• 46:06
  genius level IQ,
• 46:08
  >> and having incredible conversations with
• 46:10
  him. And I I think in certain circles
• 46:12
  it's like just what does it look like to
• 46:14
  be healed and whole in in every area of
• 46:18
  our life. And I don't think we'll see
• 46:19
  that 100% in this lifetime. But to what
• 46:23
  degree and like and to how much and
• 46:25
  that's kind of been the journey that
• 46:26
  I've been on lately. And I think the
• 46:28
  unoffendable heart is like we we need to
• 46:31
  surround ourselves with people who make
• 46:34
  it okay for us to be the healed version
• 46:36
  of ourselves and don't make us feel bad.
• 46:39
  Like if the healed version of myself is
• 46:41
  passionate emotionally and you just
• 46:45
  don't like that, then go be friends with
• 46:47
  someone else.
• 46:48
  >> Yeah.
• 46:49
  >> You know, like if the healed version of
• 46:51
  me is intellectual and you don't want to
• 46:53
  have deep conversations, then just don't
• 46:55
  be my friend. Like because that because
• 46:58
  the body of Christ has a whole faction
• 46:59
  for you. So like like the does the eye
• 47:02
  say to the the the toe, I have no need
• 47:04
  of thee. So, you just go down there and
• 47:07
  be with the other toes and I'll be up
• 47:08
  here with the ear with the other ear.
• 47:10
  Like, let's not ma be mad at each other
• 47:12
  for being something different, but make
• 47:14
  sure that you're a whole toe, a healed
• 47:16
  toe, and I'll be a healed ear, and a
• 47:19
  whole ear.
• 47:19
  >> Just clip that part just that just for
• 47:22
  real. [laughter] Like,
• 47:24
  >> but this this was all the journey I've
• 47:26
  been on.
• 47:27
  >> Yeah.
• 47:27
  >> You know, because there was nothing
• 47:29
  wrong with Julie having prophetic
• 47:30
  worship, but we had to start a church
• 47:32
  that that that was the vision.
• 47:34
  >> Yeah. You know, like and I think that
• 47:36
  for us that's kind it's just been a long
• 47:39
  25 years of figuring this all out.
• 47:41
  >> Yeah.
• 47:42
  >> And I'm still not there yet, but I'm
• 47:43
  trying.
• 47:44
  >> And it's funny like I asked you how do
• 47:46
  you think the devil uses it? But you
• 47:47
  just sharing that I'm like the devil
• 47:49
  doesn't even have to.
• 47:51
  >> Yes.
• 47:51
  >> Like we just do it to ourselves.
• 47:53
  >> Well, the devil to me is like the
• 47:56
  opportunistic rat that like we have to
• 47:59
  leave the food out to attract it.
• 48:02
  >> You know what I mean? So, it's like I
• 48:04
  try to put more of the responsibility on
• 48:06
  me than the devil because it's like if I
• 48:08
  store all my food in containers and seal
• 48:11
  it up, it's less likely I'll I'll
• 48:13
  attract rats.
• 48:14
  >> Yeah. And that's that's even like part
• 48:17
  of the problem with
• 48:19
  going back to the deliverance thing and
• 48:21
  the instant relief.
• 48:23
  It's like the second you feel offended
• 48:25
  or you feel bitter or you feel angry or
• 48:27
  you feel depressed, you're like, "Oh my
• 48:29
  gosh, the spirit's back." It's like,
• 48:30
  "No, the spirit's not back." Mhm.
• 48:34
  >> But you might let another one back in
• 48:37
  >> if you if you don't deal with this.
• 48:40
  >> We just really need to get real about
• 48:42
  dealing with it. And I also see
• 48:44
  something about the book that I loved
• 48:46
  that you kind of opened with was because
• 48:48
  you said you wrote this very shortly
• 48:49
  after Charlie Kirk was assassinated.
• 48:51
  >> Yeah. Um I observed that same thing in
• 48:56
  culture around that time was
• 49:00
  how
• 49:02
  how manipulated we are by our emotions
• 49:05
  >> and it's like whatever narrative right
• 49:08
  you if your heart is not in a place
• 49:12
  where it is unoffendable you are going
• 49:15
  to be swayed to and fro.
• 49:18
  And when that happens,
• 49:22
  you're easy to manipulate.
• 49:23
  >> Yeah.
• 49:24
  >> And that's what like, you know, mass
• 49:26
  media, the higher, like whatever you
• 49:28
  want to say, whoever you think's on top
• 49:30
  of the top, like that's what they, the
• 49:32
  proverbial they, that's what they want.
• 49:35
  like they profit from you being like
• 49:40
  stuck in this thing, not in the Bible
• 49:43
  and not in your own self, like letting
• 49:45
  the Lord deal with you so that you are
• 49:47
  like perpetually just like angry
• 49:50
  >> and offended because it keeps you in the
• 49:52
  cycle. It keeps you controlled.
• 49:55
  So that was really I think that was like
• 49:58
  one of the most important parts that
• 50:00
  >> I read in the book and I don't want
• 50:02
  people to gloss over that because I want
• 50:03
  them to see like the bigger
• 50:05
  >> kind of agenda with that.
• 50:07
  >> Thank you for that because I'm already
• 50:08
  getting messages from people who are
• 50:10
  like but it could have been an exploding
• 50:12
  microphone and this and this and like
• 50:14
  they don't realize like that Charlie
• 50:15
  Kirk section was not an assessment of
• 50:19
  like Charlie and who did it and all
• 50:21
  that. It was a larger assessment of we
• 50:24
  are they are able to cause us normal
• 50:26
  rational people to delete the humanity
• 50:29
  of someone else and justify a man with
• 50:32
  kids being murdered. Mhm.
• 50:33
  >> And it's like I think about Nazi Germany
• 50:36
  and it's like how these SS soldiers were
• 50:38
  able to be conditioned to the point
• 50:40
  where like they they go from like a
• 50:42
  police officer to a murderer and it's
• 50:44
  like it goes from serve and protect to
• 50:46
  kill. And it's like that is a very slow
• 50:48
  process. And the thing that I was
• 50:50
  assessing in culture was like how
• 50:53
  murderous America became in that era
• 50:56
  after Charlie Kirk and how like because
• 50:59
  they the the platforms they monetize are
• 51:02
  outrage because what they do is they
• 51:04
  show you something that they know will
• 51:06
  offend you and then [snorts] they
• 51:08
  because of that you'll watch it multiple
• 51:10
  times. Then because of that, you'll
• 51:12
  comment on it. But then what happens is
• 51:15
  then it'll serve you related content
• 51:17
  which puts you in an echo chamber and
• 51:19
  that's how it gets darker and darker and
• 51:21
  darker and before you know it you're
• 51:23
  like yeah you know what maybe maybe a
• 51:25
  husband and a father should have died
• 51:27
  and you're like this guy only spoke with
• 51:30
  words even if we completely disagree
• 51:32
  with everything Charlie ever said. It's
• 51:35
  like he never physically or financially
• 51:38
  hurt anybody the or I can't think of any
• 51:40
  way that we can prove that he hurt
• 51:42
  people. You know what I'm trying to say?
• 51:44
  Yeah, for sure.
• 51:45
  >> No allegations. No, but it's almost like
• 51:47
  the same crowd that chooses Barabus over
• 51:50
  Jesus
• 51:51
  >> is the same crowd online right now.
• 51:54
  >> It's crazy. And it's like Charlie Kirk
• 51:57
  just had an opinion and there were
• 51:59
  hundreds of thousands, maybe even
• 52:01
  millions of people commenting the most
• 52:04
  heinous, cruel, weird, sadistic stuff.
• 52:07
  And the spirit of murder was released in
• 52:09
  the earth to another degree. And how
• 52:11
  that happens is how I just explained.
• 52:13
  And but then there's an end times aspect
• 52:16
  to this because the Bible says the love
• 52:18
  of many will grow cold,
• 52:20
  >> right? And we always think about
• 52:21
  earthquakes and war like wars and rumors
• 52:24
  of wars and famines as that's the end
• 52:26
  times. Well, another aspect of it is the
• 52:29
  love of many will grow cold. And that's
• 52:31
  what I was assessing. It wasn't the
• 52:33
  conspiracy theories. It wasn't who did
• 52:35
  it. It was it had nothing to do with
• 52:36
  that. It was just simply the fact that
• 52:38
  like a guy who just had an opinion
• 52:41
  people disagree with. like the the the
• 52:44
  way that that situation unfolded just
• 52:46
  unleashed hatred that turned into like a
• 52:49
  murderous spirit. Yeah.
• 52:51
  >> And I think that that's how you're going
• 52:52
  to get to the point where you can just
• 52:54
  mass execute Christians. That's how you
• 52:57
  get to the part the point of martyrdom
• 52:59
  is like I it's like if you didn't think
• 53:02
  that the
• 53:02
  >> It's also how you get to a point that
• 53:04
  like no not to cut you off the
• 53:06
  >> thing. Please Yes, please. [laughter]
• 53:08
  But it's also how you get to a point
• 53:09
  where like you convince Christians that
• 53:12
  the mark of the beast is a good thing.
• 53:14
  >> That's what I was trying to get to. So,
• 53:15
  [laughter] please cut me off more cuz
• 53:17
  that's exactly that's exactly what I was
• 53:20
  going to say cuz I would read
• 53:21
  Revelation. I would read Thessalonians.
• 53:23
  I would read uh even Jesus account
• 53:25
  Matthew 25 like how is this possible?
• 53:29
  >> And that was the point in the book was
• 53:30
  like read the comment sections like it
• 53:33
  is possible,
• 53:34
  >> right? So, what would you say to people
• 53:37
  like how do we overcome this? What's the
• 53:40
  next step? Because, you know, there are
• 53:41
  going to be people that watch or listen
• 53:44
  and there's this inclination of like,
• 53:47
  well, you don't know what I've been
• 53:48
  through.
• 53:49
  >> You don't know how I've been hurt. Like,
• 53:51
  you don't know who touched me when I was
• 53:52
  four. Like, there's there's these
• 53:54
  stories that um people think gives them
• 53:58
  a right to hold on to the unforgiveness,
• 54:02
  to the offense, and to the bitterness.
• 54:04
  And it's not to say that they don't have
• 54:06
  a right to like grieve maybe like the
• 54:09
  innocence that they lost or you know
• 54:11
  like mourn or lament like these things.
• 54:14
  Again, back to the emotional processing.
• 54:16
  There's a time and place for that
• 54:18
  >> and it's necessary and it's
• 54:20
  >> we're encouraging that. But what do you
• 54:22
  say to that group that just
• 54:25
  >> wants to leave the comment and say like
• 54:26
  you don't know what I've been through.
• 54:27
  It's easy for you to say to not be
• 54:29
  offended.
• 54:29
  >> I identify with them so much. I was
• 54:32
  abused very deeply. I mean, uh, horror
• 54:36
  stories from my own father, from my
• 54:38
  stepfather. So, I get that. Um,
• 54:41
  according to the book of Proverbs,
• 54:42
  there's and I I did like a really
• 54:44
  in-depth study on this, we're only ever
• 54:46
  act interacting with one of three types
• 54:49
  of people according to Proverbs, which
• 54:50
  is the book of wisdom.
• 54:52
  >> So, there are evil people, there are
• 54:54
  foolish people, and there are wise
• 54:56
  people.
• 54:56
  >> Wow. And so this book, and I want to
• 54:58
  make sure I publicly say this as much as
• 55:00
  possible, this book, The Unoffendable
• 55:02
  Heart, does not give evil people license
• 55:04
  to continue to abuse you, continue to
• 55:07
  hurt you. That is, and I think sometimes
• 55:09
  people assume that Christian forgiveness
• 55:12
  gives license for evil people to
• 55:14
  continue to hurt us and abuse us.
• 55:15
  According to the book of Proverbs, what
• 55:17
  you do with an evil person is you hold
• 55:20
  them accountable. You banish them from
• 55:22
  your life. And it's like, I forgive you,
• 55:23
  but you might have to go to jail. I
• 55:25
  forgive you, but um we have a
• 55:27
  restraining order. I forgive you, but
• 55:29
  I'm getting law enforcement involved
• 55:31
  because there are consequences. And as a
• 55:34
  matter of fact, if you don't do what I
• 55:36
  just said when it's necessary, what
• 55:39
  you'll do is you'll banish that evil
• 55:40
  person from your life, but create an
• 55:43
  opportunity for them to have more
• 55:44
  victims. So, like this is not an
• 55:46
  anti-justice concept. Like that's good.
• 55:49
  It it's and I want to be very clear, you
• 55:51
  know, um my dad had joint custody of me
• 55:54
  before he committed manslaughter and my
• 55:57
  mom documented all of the abuse. I came
• 55:59
  home covered in bruises. I was fed raw
• 56:02
  meat. Like my dad was sort of sadistic.
• 56:04
  I think there was mental health issues.
• 56:06
  I as a result of that, I ended up
• 56:08
  getting um salmonella poisoning and
• 56:10
  almost died. So, I spent uh over a month
• 56:13
  in the hospital literally my dad almost
• 56:15
  killed me unintentionally just by
• 56:18
  feeding me raw meat. Just very bizarre,
• 56:20
  weird stuff. And in a way when he
• 56:23
  committed manslaughter and that was that
• 56:25
  whole case happened. Um I was actually
• 56:27
  uh I went into the archives of the
• 56:29
  newspaper. Uh because it was like a a
• 56:31
  big case that happened in Chicagoland
• 56:34
  and one of the um lawyers and this
• 56:37
  actually made it into the paper was like
• 56:39
  the mental age of the man that my dad
• 56:42
  killed was the same physical age as his
• 56:45
  biological son which is me. And that guy
• 56:47
  was that that uh attorney was actually
• 56:50
  like saying like we need to prosecute
• 56:52
  this to the fullest because it could
• 56:54
  have been his own son that he killed.
• 56:55
  And when I read that in the newspaper
• 56:57
  archive, it was such an emotional moment
• 57:00
  for me to be like, "Wow, God, you
• 57:01
  preserved me." But then also that my
• 57:04
  point is that caused another ruling. So
• 57:06
  that was when I was separated from my
• 57:08
  father. He faced the consequences of
• 57:11
  what he did and that was a righteous
• 57:13
  thing. And so we need that. So, I just
• 57:15
  want to make sure I'm very clear with
• 57:17
  that. But that's evil people. And I
• 57:19
  believe that my dad in that way, you
• 57:21
  know, I always looked at it like a Darth
• 57:23
  Vader, Luke Skywalker kind of thing, you
• 57:26
  know, like my dad was like I always
• 57:27
  wanted him to be good. I always wanted
• 57:29
  him to accept Christ. I don't know.
• 57:31
  Maybe there was some kind of conversion
• 57:33
  before he died I'm not aware of. But
• 57:35
  then there's foolish people and it's not
• 57:37
  to that same degree. Sometimes foolish
• 57:40
  people will will hurt you unaware of how
• 57:42
  they're perpetually hurting you. and and
• 57:44
  they don't need to be banished from your
• 57:46
  life necessarily, but they need very
• 57:48
  clearly communicated boundaries. And so
• 57:51
  it might be like, hey, I'll see you in
• 57:53
  Thanksgiving and Christmas, but like
• 57:54
  here's how we're going to interact. And
• 57:56
  they most foolish people don't even know
• 57:58
  they're a fool. And it's not even
• 58:00
  beneficial to tell them they are one.
• 58:01
  >> And they're probably hurt, too.
• 58:03
  >> Yes. And they're dealing with their
• 58:04
  stuff. So it's like, hey, you're family.
• 58:06
  You're not toxic necessarily. You're not
• 58:08
  evil necessarily, but like there's some
• 58:10
  boundaries that need. But then wise
• 58:12
  people, they we even and I'm I'm gonna
• 58:15
  say we, you know, um I'm wise but like
• 58:19
  I've tried to increase in wisdom, but I
• 58:22
  that doesn't mean that I might not
• 58:23
  unintentionally still do something wrong
• 58:25
  and hurt somebody. But the difference is
• 58:27
  when you call a wise person out like
• 58:29
  when I when when my congregants said to
• 58:32
  me, they confronted me, my proof that
• 58:35
  I'm not a cult leader was me repenting
• 58:38
  to them and be like, you know what? If I
• 58:40
  were to take an honest look at my
• 58:42
  preaching, you're right. I'm talking way
• 58:43
  too much about people who don't even go
• 58:46
  to this church and blah blah blah. And
• 58:48
  they made me wiser. So like a wise
• 58:51
  person, rebuke and correction will make
• 58:53
  them wiser. And then the Bible says the
• 58:55
  wise walk with the wise. And the Bible
• 58:57
  also says that faithful are the wounds
• 58:59
  of a friend. So what my congregants were
• 59:01
  showing was like we're for you. We're
• 59:03
  not even leaving your church. We
• 59:04
  actually are trying to help you. And I
• 59:07
  became wiser. And then they were like,
• 59:08
  "Man, our pastor listens to us as well.
• 59:11
  We have a voice." And that's health.
• 59:13
  That's what health looks like. And so,
• 59:15
  like, I really feel like what this
• 59:17
  process looks like is going through the
• 59:19
  book to determine, okay, who in my life
• 59:22
  is wise? Who's a fool? And who's evil?
• 59:25
  And then the other part of the process
• 59:26
  is which one am I? [laughter]
• 59:30
  I'm like, and you know what? I think you
• 59:32
  can be evil and the Lord can deliver
• 59:34
  you. like when I was cancelling all
• 59:35
  those people. So that megaurch pastor
• 59:38
  that I talked about in my 20s, I
• 59:40
  repented to him. I actually went to his
• 59:42
  house and looked him in the eyes and was
• 59:43
  like, "I'm so sorry." And we had a
• 59:45
  reconciliation moment. So like, you
• 59:47
  know, I think that Paul was evil.
• 59:50
  >> I think that uh Peter was a fool who
• 59:52
  under the power of the Holy Spirit and a
• 59:54
  process became wise.
• 59:56
  >> But I think Judas is an example of
• 59:58
  someone who who is evil who stayed evil.
• 1:00:00
  >> That's really good. and and like you
• 1:00:02
  know you rebuke Jesus rebukes Peter and
• 1:00:05
  like get thee behind me Satan and
• 1:00:07
  eventually Peter graduates and becomes
• 1:00:09
  an apostle but then uh Judas gets
• 1:00:12
  rebuked and it's like you don't even
• 1:00:14
  care about the poor and then he ends up
• 1:00:16
  doubling down on it forsakes Jesus and
• 1:00:19
  then aborts his calling and ends his
• 1:00:21
  life. So, I think we're in the prophetic
• 1:00:23
  season of separation between the Judas's
• 1:00:25
  and the Peters right now. And like, and
• 1:00:28
  it's all it's going to be determined by
• 1:00:30
  who receives a rebuke. Like, how do you
• 1:00:32
  receive it? Are you teachable? Are you
• 1:00:34
  humble? Are you correctable? And the
• 1:00:37
  Peters are going to become wise? And
• 1:00:38
  they're going to get graduated. And then
• 1:00:40
  the the Peters are just going to end up
• 1:00:43
  aborting their whole mission. And I
• 1:00:45
  think that's where we're at right now.
• 1:00:47
  >> That's so good. You have no idea how
• 1:00:49
  much it just like spoke into my own
• 1:00:50
  life.
• 1:00:51
  So, praise God.
• 1:00:52
  >> I'm trying to be prophetic. Like, I I
• 1:00:55
  don't like recycling stuff. So, even to
• 1:00:57
  talk about the book, I tried to give you
• 1:00:58
  all the content that's not in the book.
• 1:01:00
  So, even as people read the book,
• 1:01:02
  hopefully they're like, "Wow, that's
• 1:01:03
  crazy. This feels like supplemental."
• 1:01:05
  >> Even in my own journal, like, you can't
• 1:01:07
  make it up. Like, in my own journal the
• 1:01:09
  other night when I was reading um I was
• 1:01:11
  reading Chronicles about Saul and you
• 1:01:14
  know, all the stuff that he did and just
• 1:01:16
  how he same same as Judas like ended his
• 1:01:18
  own life, you know.
• 1:01:19
  >> Yeah. Truly. Um, and I was like making
• 1:01:22
  the parallel. like Saul, Judas, David's
• 1:01:25
  kind of like Peter, like you know, like
• 1:01:27
  so I was just like having all these
• 1:01:29
  revelations about like Judas versus
• 1:01:31
  Peter and like what that looks like and
• 1:01:32
  then like Saul versus David and like
• 1:01:35
  what that looks like in our own walk, in
• 1:01:36
  our own heart because
• 1:01:38
  >> it's so it's so comforting to know that
• 1:01:41
  God will use people and in fact not just
• 1:01:44
  use, but he actually will choose and
• 1:01:46
  anoint and appoint people that are not
• 1:01:49
  perfect, that do not have it all figured
• 1:01:52
  out that do stumble, but when they
• 1:01:55
  stumble like they stumble forward into
• 1:01:57
  his arms,
• 1:01:58
  >> you know, they don't like stumble onto
• 1:02:00
  their own sword.
• 1:02:01
  >> Yes.
• 1:02:01
  >> Kind of thing. So,
• 1:02:02
  >> Oh, that is so good.
• 1:02:04
  >> It's been really It's been a relief
• 1:02:06
  because someone being healed of
• 1:02:08
  perfectionism.
• 1:02:09
  >> Yeah.
• 1:02:09
  >> Hello.
• 1:02:10
  >> Um and being healed of like the
• 1:02:11
  rejection, I'm like, God, how could you
• 1:02:13
  possibly
• 1:02:15
  Why would you use me? Like, why me? And
• 1:02:18
  he's like, well, that's exactly why
• 1:02:20
  because you're you. Mhm.
• 1:02:21
  >> in all of your imperfection. And it's
• 1:02:23
  actually me through you that I'm
• 1:02:26
  >> that I'm using.
• 1:02:28
  >> Perfectionism redeemed is excellence.
• 1:02:31
  >> That's so good.
• 1:02:32
  >> So it's like because that's what makes
• 1:02:34
  you great at things, right?
• 1:02:36
  >> It's like going back to the Italian
• 1:02:38
  heritage. It's like the this the you
• 1:02:40
  know um the the when you go to the cyine
• 1:02:43
  chapel, one section of it's painted by
• 1:02:45
  Luca Senorelli.
• 1:02:47
  >> So it's like that's a lineage, that's a
• 1:02:49
  heritage. It's like a painter is is it's
• 1:02:52
  like redeem perfectionism is excellence.
• 1:02:55
  It it's it's like I'm never going to
• 1:02:56
  achieve perfection, but it drives me
• 1:02:59
  like something drives me in a healthy
• 1:03:00
  way to keep making it better and better.
• 1:03:03
  And that's an artist, you know? So, it's
• 1:03:06
  like and so the things that like and I
• 1:03:08
  think that's what we're both on a
• 1:03:09
  journey of like man, maybe this cuz like
• 1:03:11
  that like for me, I have obsession level
• 1:03:13
  stuff. I think about things like
• 1:03:16
  whatever. But obsession redeemed is
• 1:03:19
  excellence.
• 1:03:20
  But now when it gets unhealthy, it's
• 1:03:23
  like I I lose sleep. I'm an insomniac
• 1:03:26
  when it's unhealthy. But then when it's
• 1:03:28
  healthy, people are like, "What man,
• 1:03:29
  Mike?" Like that's amazing what you did,
• 1:03:32
  you know? So it's like I think that's
• 1:03:35
  and I think some people Yeah. whoever
• 1:03:37
  doesn't have what we have will try to
• 1:03:39
  talk us out of it instead of instead of
• 1:03:41
  walk with us through healing.
• 1:03:43
  >> Yeah. and the redeemed version of it. So
• 1:03:45
  I think that's kind of where I've been
• 1:03:47
  like what is the redeemed version of all
• 1:03:49
  this? So like Peter for example, he's
• 1:03:51
  kind of like
• 1:03:52
  >> perceived as rebellious, but Peter's
• 1:03:55
  also taking initiative
• 1:03:58
  like and so so what okay watch. Taking
• 1:04:01
  initiative is the hallmark of an
• 1:04:03
  apostolic gift. It's doing the thing.
• 1:04:06
  It's like hey no one told me to start
• 1:04:08
  churches in Cree. Nobody told me to
• 1:04:10
  start churches. Even like I do a tour
• 1:04:13
  every year retracing the Apostle Paul's
• 1:04:15
  steps.
• 1:04:15
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:04:16
  >> And I see the humanity of Paul.
• 1:04:18
  >> It's like he's just figuring it out. But
• 1:04:20
  he's taking initiative. Peter takes
• 1:04:21
  initiative. So taking initiative gets
• 1:04:24
  you rebuked by Jesus, but also gets you
• 1:04:26
  promoted by Jesus because he's like,
• 1:04:28
  "Hey man, you just always doing stuff
• 1:04:31
  even if I didn't tell you to do it will
• 1:04:33
  make you a really good apostolic
• 1:04:34
  leader."
• 1:04:35
  >> Really good.
• 1:04:35
  >> You get what I'm saying? It's like,
• 1:04:37
  >> so I think for me it's going the
• 1:04:39
  unoffendable heart is about redeeming
• 1:04:42
  the heart. And I even say like whatever
• 1:04:45
  makes you angry has potential to become
• 1:04:47
  your calling. So even anger, let's
• 1:04:50
  redeem anger.
• 1:04:51
  >> Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  >> You could be so angry about your own s,
• 1:04:54
  you know, SA, you know, like going
• 1:04:56
  through all that and then you could turn
• 1:04:58
  that into righteous anger and be like, I
• 1:05:00
  want to go liberate uh like people who
• 1:05:02
  are in sex trafficking, human
• 1:05:04
  trafficking. I want to devote my life to
• 1:05:06
  like bringing people. You know what I'm
• 1:05:08
  saying?
• 1:05:08
  >> Yeah, for sure.
• 1:05:09
  >> But I think for me in an unredeemed
• 1:05:11
  state, it ends up destroying you.
• 1:05:13
  >> That's real.
• 1:05:14
  >> In a redeemed state, it ends up like
• 1:05:16
  like helping to save other people.
• 1:05:19
  >> That's exactly again, that's exactly
• 1:05:20
  what happened to me. Like people like to
• 1:05:23
  say, "Oh, you're so angry. I wish you
• 1:05:25
  would stop yelling." I'm like, "I am
• 1:05:26
  Italian. I am from Philadelphia.
• 1:05:30
  >> I I this is how I talk.
• 1:05:32
  >> You look so angry. this is the structure
• 1:05:34
  of my eyebrows. I cannot change it. But
• 1:05:36
  like all the all these things like you
• 1:05:39
  know I don't I'm not angry at you like
• 1:05:42
  I'm telling you I'm this is I am talking
• 1:05:45
  like someone in love.
• 1:05:47
  >> I love Jesus and I love you enough to
• 1:05:49
  tell you the truth.
• 1:05:51
  >> Yeah.
• 1:05:51
  >> But unredeemed and unhealed that comes
• 1:05:53
  out really ugly and really nasty.
• 1:05:56
  >> But some people need the yelling.
• 1:05:58
  >> Yeah. Some people like Mussolini yelled.
• 1:06:00
  Hitler yelled. But please don't compare
• 1:06:02
  me to [laughter] But what I was going to
• 1:06:03
  say, I was going somewhere with it. I
• 1:06:05
  promise
• 1:06:06
  >> I was going somewhere with it. Yeah,
• 1:06:07
  clipped it. Um, but you know what? Like
• 1:06:10
  Billy Graham yelled in stadiums. Um, you
• 1:06:12
  know, Martin Luther King yelled,
• 1:06:14
  presidents yell. Like yelling is a
• 1:06:16
  universal like people respond to
• 1:06:18
  passion.
• 1:06:19
  >> Yeah. Right.
• 1:06:20
  >> And so it's like, hey, if you're
• 1:06:21
  watching and you don't like yelling,
• 1:06:22
  then go find somebody who says the same
• 1:06:24
  themes as me in a different tone that
• 1:06:27
  suits your preference.
• 1:06:29
  >> Right. But like I don't have to try to
• 1:06:32
  change myself to succeed. I've got to
• 1:06:34
  try to redeem myself to succeed.
• 1:06:36
  >> I think what's been really really
• 1:06:37
  amazing too and I think it's a really
• 1:06:39
  beautiful component of your book is you
• 1:06:42
  know back to like the whole self-denial
• 1:06:43
  crucifixion thing like God doesn't want
• 1:06:46
  to
• 1:06:48
  he doesn't want to like kill your
• 1:06:50
  personality. He wants to refine your
• 1:06:51
  character.
• 1:06:53
  >> And those are two completely different
• 1:06:54
  things.
• 1:06:55
  >> That's so good.
• 1:06:56
  >> And your character is your heart. It is
• 1:06:58
  well one of the scriptures says that a
• 1:07:00
  tranquil heart gives life to the flesh.
• 1:07:03
  >> And then the second part of that verse
• 1:07:05
  actually says that bitterness rots the
• 1:07:07
  bones.
• 1:07:08
  >> Yeah.
• 1:07:08
  >> Which is sort of like a parallelism. So
• 1:07:11
  it's like if you have a tranquil heart,
• 1:07:12
  it brings life to your entire body. But
• 1:07:15
  then if you have bitterness, it will rot
• 1:07:17
  your the innermost core, which if you
• 1:07:19
  rot in your bones, by extension, the
• 1:07:22
  whole rest of you rots.
• 1:07:23
  >> Yeah. And so I really believe that God
• 1:07:26
  is trying to and what a generation to do
• 1:07:28
  it in to raise up an unoffendable army
• 1:07:31
  in the most easily offended culture m
• 1:07:34
  arguably ever. And that's going to be
• 1:07:36
  how we become salt and light. Like to me
• 1:07:39
  that's going to be part of how we lead
• 1:07:40
  the masses in this end times awakening
• 1:07:43
  is going to be like how like how are you
• 1:07:46
  not offended and why does your flesh
• 1:07:49
  seem to have so much life? Because if
• 1:07:50
  the if the scripture says a tranquil
• 1:07:52
  heart brings life to the flesh and
• 1:07:54
  they're dead in the spirit, it's going
• 1:07:56
  to be looking at our faces. It's going
• 1:07:59
  to be looking at the external and be
• 1:08:01
  like, man, there's a radiance and a life
• 1:08:04
  that you exude that I even though I'm
• 1:08:07
  dead in my spirit, I can discern it cuz
• 1:08:09
  it's natural. A tranquil heart gives
• 1:08:12
  life to the flesh. And so it's like I
• 1:08:14
  really believe that part of this like
• 1:08:16
  end times army that's rising up, we are
• 1:08:19
  going to have like a physical
• 1:08:20
  countenance that radiates God's presence
• 1:08:22
  and people are going to look at us that
• 1:08:25
  I've led people to Christ for no other
• 1:08:26
  reason than they're like I always feel
• 1:08:28
  so comforted when you're around. I feel
• 1:08:30
  so peaceful even when you're around. It
• 1:08:32
  just feels like when you walk in a room.
• 1:08:34
  Taylor Welch said that the first time he
• 1:08:35
  ever met me in his podcast. He was like
• 1:08:37
  you walked into my house and peace just
• 1:08:39
  filled my whole house. And it was like,
• 1:08:42
  "Yeah, but that starts from the inside
• 1:08:44
  out." Like that was me trying to govern
• 1:08:47
  my internal atmosphere and then you're
• 1:08:50
  just feeling the overflow of it. Because
• 1:08:52
  if you only knew what the natural state
• 1:08:54
  of my internal condition is, you would
• 1:08:56
  realize it is crazy. And so I think that
• 1:09:00
  part of this unoffendable army is going
• 1:09:03
  to be salt and light to those who are
• 1:09:05
  not saved.
• 1:09:06
  >> Yeah. I love I think this is like a
• 1:09:08
  really good place to kind of close out
• 1:09:10
  on because
• 1:09:10
  >> I feel it
• 1:09:11
  >> that you know the salt and light salt
• 1:09:15
  doesn't mean you're salty,
• 1:09:16
  >> right? But to be salt and light, you
• 1:09:19
  have to kind of let the salt sting your
• 1:09:22
  heart first.
• 1:09:23
  >> Mhm.
• 1:09:24
  >> And then you got to let the light shine
• 1:09:26
  on the dark places
• 1:09:28
  >> first.
• 1:09:30
  >> So it's not even just about you. Like
• 1:09:33
  obviously God wants you healed and he
• 1:09:36
  wants you whole and he paid for that.
• 1:09:37
  And if you were the only person in the
• 1:09:40
  whole world across all time and space
• 1:09:43
  that the cross would have saved, he
• 1:09:44
  still would have done it. Amen. But it's
• 1:09:46
  not just about you because when you are
• 1:09:50
  healed,
• 1:09:50
  >> yeah,
• 1:09:51
  >> that's your witness. Like this is who
• 1:09:54
  Christ is. is. And it's like back to
• 1:09:55
  what I talked about toward the beginning
• 1:09:57
  is we are so busy being offended at each
• 1:10:00
  other that we've forgotten what it looks
• 1:10:03
  like to actually love the lost.
• 1:10:05
  >> And so when we're unoffended, like we
• 1:10:07
  are able to be a natural evangelists
• 1:10:12
  because our countenance is the
• 1:10:13
  evangelism.
• 1:10:14
  >> Yes. There's a scripture that when you
• 1:10:17
  were talking, it just kept resounding in
• 1:10:18
  my spirit. Those who refresh others,
• 1:10:21
  will they themselves be refreshed? And I
• 1:10:25
  actually noticed them because I have
• 1:10:26
  this aura ring that tracks and when I
• 1:10:28
  was doing that mass deliverance that I
• 1:10:30
  talked about earlier. Um I literally my
• 1:10:32
  ring said you've had more and you it
• 1:10:35
  says you've had 1 hour and 45 minutes
• 1:10:37
  more restorative time than usual and I
• 1:10:41
  looked at the window when it registered
• 1:10:42
  and it was while man makes me want to
• 1:10:44
  cry. It was while I was doing
• 1:10:45
  deliverance. And then all of a sudden, I
• 1:10:47
  get a text message from Pastor Juliana
• 1:10:50
  from our Manhattan campus the next day.
• 1:10:52
  And she was like, "I got the craziest
• 1:10:54
  thing to show you." She was like, "My
• 1:10:56
  ring said that I had more restorative
• 1:10:58
  time while I was in church serving."
• 1:11:01
  Then like on the way here, I was talking
• 1:11:03
  to Josh Hamster who goes to our church.
• 1:11:05
  He's a pastor. And he was like, "I get
• 1:11:06
  this weirdest thing happened. I was uh
• 1:11:09
  teaching people how to prophesy and
• 1:11:10
  leading the prophets." And my ring
• 1:11:12
  registered more restorative time. And I
• 1:11:14
  was like, could there be and I was just
• 1:11:15
  telling Josh, I was like, this is the
• 1:11:17
  you're the third person now that while
• 1:11:20
  you're refreshing others is being
• 1:11:22
  refreshed, could there be a scientific
• 1:11:25
  basis for the fact that like when we
• 1:11:28
  refresh others, like it does something
• 1:11:30
  physiologically even to oursel? And so I
• 1:11:33
  don't know. I just
• 1:11:34
  >> That's so good.
• 1:11:35
  >> Yeah. I and I I want people like when we
• 1:11:37
  have an unoffendable heart, I think it's
• 1:11:39
  like a lot of people are like, I'm going
• 1:11:41
  to protect my heart, you know? You know,
• 1:11:43
  it's like and we're going to conceal it
• 1:11:45
  and like that's how I'm going to stay
• 1:11:46
  unoffendable. But it's like when the
• 1:11:48
  when the spear went into his side, it
• 1:11:51
  literally said when he was pierced,
• 1:11:53
  blood and water flowed from his heart.
• 1:11:56
  >> So, it's like I think about the fact
• 1:11:58
  that it's like the unoffendable heart is
• 1:11:59
  not a heart that we hide. It's not a
• 1:12:02
  heart that we preserve and conceal. It's
• 1:12:04
  literally when the world It's like when
• 1:12:06
  we let them stab us. It's like, "Hey,
• 1:12:09
  blood and water flows and it's but it's
• 1:12:11
  fresh water." And when it's refreshing
• 1:12:14
  you, it's refreshing me, too.
• 1:12:15
  >> That's so good. And I think, you know,
• 1:12:18
  [snorts]
• 1:12:19
  the Bible says, "Guard your heart, but
• 1:12:20
  it doesn't say barricade your heart."
• 1:12:22
  >> That's it. And
• 1:12:24
  >> yes,
• 1:12:25
  >> in order for your heart to open, it has
• 1:12:28
  to break first because the stony
• 1:12:31
  exterior, literally that shell has to
• 1:12:34
  fall off. So, it does have to break and
• 1:12:37
  smash. So, we're not suggesting this is
• 1:12:38
  like an easy process or even a process
• 1:12:41
  that happens overnight. Like you're not
• 1:12:42
  just going to like read this book and
• 1:12:45
  >> it's like you said, it's like a nail
• 1:12:46
  like it grows back. It's something that
• 1:12:47
  you have to be vigilant of in trimming
• 1:12:50
  trimming [laughter] away. But
• 1:12:52
  >> circumcision of the heart.
• 1:12:53
  >> The circumcision of the heart. That's
• 1:12:55
  crazy.
• 1:12:56
  >> That's kind of what I was alluding to.
• 1:12:58
  >> Circumcision of the heart. And like me
• 1:13:00
  not believing that I can't go back to
• 1:13:02
  that worse condition.
• 1:13:03
  >> Amen.
• 1:13:04
  >> And like just not trusting myself, but
• 1:13:06
  trusting the Lord.
• 1:13:07
  >> Amen. All right. Well, I love this book.
• 1:13:10
  I've not finished it yet. I started a
• 1:13:12
  kind of like invested mentorship
• 1:13:15
  community sort of thing. And part of
• 1:13:16
  that is we're doing a book club because
• 1:13:19
  I told you I have all these books. Yeah,
• 1:13:21
  >> I have not read probably 85% of them,
• 1:13:24
  >> but I think it's so important to be
• 1:13:27
  digesting what revelation the Lord is
• 1:13:30
  giving his people in this hour,
• 1:13:32
  especially this right now. So, we are
• 1:13:33
  reading this in my book club.
• 1:13:34
  >> Oh, well, if you want me to do any like
• 1:13:37
  videos or whatever for them or some
• 1:13:38
  shout outs, I'll do that.
• 1:13:40
  >> Yeah, I'm sure they would love that. Um,
• 1:13:41
  where can people get this?
• 1:13:43
  >> I would say go to Amazon. Here's what's
• 1:13:45
  crazy. It exceeded my expectations the
• 1:13:47
  day it debuted last week. Uh, I kid you
• 1:13:50
  not. It a Walmart, Target, and Barnes &
• 1:13:52
  Noble ran out nationally.
• 1:13:54
  >> So, like that's crazy.
• 1:13:56
  >> Can you pray like that anointing over
• 1:13:57
  me?
• 1:13:58
  >> Yes. [laughter] Because even while you
• 1:13:59
  were talking and I want to get this on
• 1:14:01
  film as we close, you were writing while
• 1:14:04
  you were talking and I was starting to
• 1:14:06
  like like prophetically get so excited
• 1:14:09
  thinking about your next book and like
• 1:14:12
  whenever that comes and I do pray a
• 1:14:14
  grace over it because um it's just about
• 1:14:17
  communication you know what the Lord
• 1:14:19
  uses you to speak and like I want to
• 1:14:20
  thank you personally like I've said this
• 1:14:22
  on many many times to you before
• 1:14:24
  privately and publicly but you've
• 1:14:26
  discipled my daughters
• 1:14:28
  and like how many times like I've heard
• 1:14:30
  your voice in my house and I cannot
• 1:14:32
  thank you enough for that and so I'm
• 1:14:34
  excited for what you know just your life
• 1:14:36
  and to continue to watch you unfold you
• 1:14:39
  know it's like a flower that blooms and
• 1:14:41
  it opens in each season and reveals
• 1:14:43
  these petals and reveals these things
• 1:14:45
  and I just love watching you go on your
• 1:14:47
  journey so thank you for discipling my
• 1:14:48
  daughters
• 1:14:49
  >> it's going to be the gift that giving
• 1:14:51
  because your girl's growing on social
• 1:14:53
  media right now and by the time
• 1:14:54
  [clears throat] my daughter's on social
• 1:14:56
  media that's the she's going to be
• 1:14:57
  looking.
• 1:14:58
  >> That's it.
• 1:14:59
  >> Yeah,
• 1:15:00
  >> that's it. And that Yeah, I cherish
• 1:15:01
  that. So, yeah, Lord, put that
• 1:15:03
  exponential on it cuz even for this,
• 1:15:05
  like I'm the guy who's like, I don't
• 1:15:07
  want to sell a book. I'll buy the copies
• 1:15:08
  out of my savings and then this one
• 1:15:11
  debuts and they run out in three
• 1:15:12
  retailers. So, the Lord's doing
• 1:15:14
  something supernatural because you can't
• 1:15:16
  pay for that kind of marketing. Not
• 1:15:17
  nowadays. Nobody hardly buys books and
• 1:15:20
  you know what I mean? Like, but I think
• 1:15:22
  people saw the title, the unoffendable
• 1:15:24
  heart and something in their spirit was
• 1:15:27
  like, "Oh, it's time."
• 1:15:28
  >> Oh, is that me?
• 1:15:29
  >> Yeah. [laughter] And and that's why I
• 1:15:30
  wrote it like a stethoscope. Even how
• 1:15:32
  you said like, "I didn't realize how
• 1:15:33
  much was in my heart." That was the
• 1:15:35
  whole point because that was what
• 1:15:36
  happened to me first and then I retrace
• 1:15:38
  the journey. And it's kind of like when
• 1:15:40
  you put a stethoscope and you're like,
• 1:15:41
  "Oh, I'm fine. I'm fine." And then
• 1:15:42
  you're like, "Oh, I'm not."
• 1:15:44
  >> But that's the first step to healing.
• 1:15:46
  >> So good.
• 1:15:47
  >> So, thank you.
• 1:15:48
  >> Yeah. Well, thank you for being here. It
• 1:15:50
  was awesome. Where can people find you?
• 1:15:52
  >> I would say get the book on Amazon
• 1:15:54
  because it's the only place you can get
• 1:15:55
  it right now. And then go to
• 1:15:57
  mikignarelli.com.
• 1:15:59
  >> I've got all kinds of free resources
• 1:16:00
  there and extra stuff they can dive
• 1:16:02
  into.
• 1:16:03
  >> Okay, awesome.
• 1:16:05
  >> Well, thank you all for watching. Leave
• 1:16:07
  your comments down below. Let us know if
• 1:16:09
  you were offended by anything that we
• 1:16:12
  talked about and how you're going to go
• 1:16:13
  process that with the Lord and get
• 1:16:14
  healed in Jesus name. Amen. [laughter]
• 1:16:17
  >> Amen. I love that.