Latest / Pod Save America / Which Democrats Have What It Takes to Win the White House?

Transcript

Which Democrats Have What It Takes to Win the White House? · Pod Save America

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Joining me
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: today is former senior advisor to President Obama, David Oxelrod.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: You all know Axe. Maybe you've heard him on this pod,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: listened to either of his shows, Hacks on Tap or
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: The Axe Files. or you've likely seen him on CNN.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Axe is an all-around expert that can speak to anything
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: in Democratic politics. I asked Axe to come on the
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: show because I wanted to talk to someone smart about
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the midterms, both what the map looks like for the
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Dems after a series of devastating court rulings and what
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: he thinks of some of the candidates running up and
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: down the ballot. I also wanted to talk to him
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: about messaging, namely how some of the party's leading voices
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and likely 2028 candidates are talking about the administration and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: if their theories of the case are actually any good.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We shared a great and wide-ranging conversation. which we'll get
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: to in a minute. But before we do, if you're
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: a Friend of the Pod subscriber, which if you aren't,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you should be, you can now buy tickets for this
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: year's CrookedCon. There is a special pre-sale just for subscribers.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: But if you're not a subscriber because you hate pro-democracy
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: media and love listening to podcast ads, you can buy
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: CrookedCon tickets next week, starting on May 19th. Either way,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: it'll be a big fun party right after the midterms,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: November 5th to 7th in Washington, D.C. Go to CrookedCon.com
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: for more details, including how to become a Friend of
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: the Pod subscriber. All right, let's get to the show.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Here's David Axelrod. David Oxelrod, welcome back to Puts of America.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to be with you, brother. Always good
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: to see you.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: It's been a long time since I've seen you.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: It has.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I assume I'll catch you in Chicago in about a
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: month at the Obama Library opening.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to it. I went through there the
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: other day. Have you been there?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I have not. I talked to Cody Keenan after he went,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and he said it was quite emotional, actually, and pretty amazing.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: That's exactly... I went over sort of out of a
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: sense of obligation. They had wanted me to come see it.
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: And.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And I found it incredibly emotional. It really was like
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: reliving the journey. So I'm anxious for you guys to
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: see it.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're very excited about it. All right. Fortunately, we've
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: got a lot of things happening between now and then.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: We are now less than six months from the midterms.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: A few weeks ago, things looked great. Democrats felt like
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: they were on a glide path to taking the House
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: by a pretty significant margin. Then, over the last few weeks,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: there's been nothing but bad news. Supreme Court got to
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the Voting Rights Act. The Republicans are rapidly redrawing the map,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: eliminating Democratic districts across the South. Virginia Supreme Court throws
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: out the new map that would have given Democrats four seats.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: As a party, we've returned to our natural state of panic.
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Where do you think things stand right now in the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: race for the House? How worried are you?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Look, Dan, you know the history of this race. There
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: have been 39 midterm elections since World War II. And
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: the party that is in the White House has gained
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: seats in two of those 39 in 1998 and 2002.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: And in both those elections with Clinton and Bush, Bush
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: right after 9-11, they both had approval ratings in the 60s.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: These races are, no matter how hard, and you and
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I were on the losing end of this, you know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: No matter how hard you try, there's always a referendum
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: on the president. And very rarely do you win in
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that because it's an opportunity for people who express their discontents.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And so, I mean, it is still the case that Democrats,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I think, are probably significant favorites to win the House,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: just not the prohibitive favorites they were. And I think
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: this is a flashing light in this regard. When you're
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: in a campaign against Donald Trump, it's sort of asymmetric
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: warfare because he does not adhere to rules and laws
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: and norms and institutions. I mean, that's a disadvantage for
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Democrats who are accustomed to doing that. And so this
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: is one element of what he has in his in
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: his asymmetric toolbox, but we still don't know what is
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: going to happen relative to voter suppression, voter purges, the
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Justice Department showing up and seizing voting boxes, and all
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: kinds of other things that are meant to depress democratic turnout. Now,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I figure if the people of Hungary can do it,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: the people of the U.S. should be able to also,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: but because obviously Orban threw that many obstacles and more up.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: But I don't think anybody should take anything for granted.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: This is going to be a bumpy ride from start
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to finish.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, when you just look at the numbers, right,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Nate Cohn estimates Democrats need to win the popular vote
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: by 3.9% to take the House with this map. That
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: even presumes Republicans definitely getting that seat in South Carolina
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and maybe getting two and losing it where they're only
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: going to get one. And we're on track for that.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: It's just What that margin is, is really hard for,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: it's just not what should be given Trump's approval numbers
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: given the economy. And then that, we may still get, look,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you win the House by one seat. Hakeem Jeffries is
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: still Speaker. He's still in charge of every bill that passes.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: But it's, can you keep the House in a less
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: favorable political environment two years from now, four years from now?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: And that's where the- No, I think that that's a
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: valid concern because I don't think the full effect of
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: the Voting Rights Act kind of rescission by the Supreme
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Court is going to be felt in this election, and
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: the Republicans are not going to have as much time
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: to organize around it. And a presidential election, you know,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: used to be that a presidential election favored Democrats because
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: the infrequent voters tended to be Democrats. Now, you know,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the midterm elections and special elections favor Democrats because the
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Democratic Party for better and worse, has become a party
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: of sort of metropolitan professional, you know, white collar people,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: college educated folks who tend to vote regularly. This used
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: to be a Republican advantage. So I think, you know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: the next elections could be more challenging if the margin
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: is small. But as to November, you know, Trump's numbers
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: are abysmal and they're getting worse and His numbers on
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the economy, which was the calling card that got him
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: elected in many ways, are atrocious. You know, 30 percent
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: in the last CNN poll among independents, 23 percent because
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: it's his base that's keeping him buoyed. And those independent
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: voters are going to be pretty important in these swing
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: states and districts. So, you know, this is why I
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: think he will reach into this bag of tricks. And
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: on top of that, he's got he'll probably have you know,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: he has whether he spends it or not, we'll see.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: But he'll probably have $ 600 million. You know, he had
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: $ 300 million in his super PAC at the beginning of
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: the year. And let me tell you, when you get,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you know, millions and millions of dollars in donations from
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: the families of people you pardon, in advance of the pardon,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: that's a very efficient way of fundraising. Half the money
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: at least comes from people who have, you know, government
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: interests and You know, like I said, there's nothing that
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: the words that you will never hear flowing from this
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: president's mouth is, well, we could do it, but it
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: would be wrong. That's just not going to happen.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: That is a thing you can hear from Democrats mouths.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And like going forward past this election, you know, you
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: talk about the asymmetric warfare and, you know, Hakeem Jefferson's
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: out there since decision saying we have to have a
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: total warfare approach. Virginia Democrats, at least for a minute,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: looked relatively seriously at the idea of changing the age
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: limit on their justices to retire all of them and
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: replace them. Turned out to be whatever other problems there
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: were with that plan, it just turned out to be
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: logistically impossible to fire the justices, get new justices, draw
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: new maps, and get them approved at time for the primaries.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: But since this decision, there's been talk about expanding the playbook.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Kamala Harris was doing a Zoom call with a political
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: group where she talked about court reform, multi-member districts, all
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: these things. What do you think about how Democrats have
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: to change our approach over the medium term and the
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: long term here to maybe narrow that asymmetric gap?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, first of all, look, I think that you
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: heard for the longest time, and it was reflected in polling,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: discontent with the leadership and both Jeffries and Schumer because
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of a perceived passivity. I think Hakim has... changed his
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: tone markedly lately, in part because he's trying to hold
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: his troops together here. I mean, I'm mixed on this
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: stand because I understand the stakes and I understand the
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: idea that if the other side is playing tackle, you
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: can't play touch. And on the other hand, You know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: this is the lot of Democrats. If you're the party
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: who actually believes in rules and laws and norms and institutions,
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: it's very hard to reconstruct them once they're shredded. And
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: so I'm struggling with this as to how far we
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: should go. And the best thing we can do is,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: you know, embrace the right message, which is going to
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: be more important and even more important in 28 than 26.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Because So there's so much that should be pushing our
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: way if we become the party that we should be,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: which is to respond to the fundamental concerns that people
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: have been expressing again and again and again. that Trump
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: has ignored. And so, you know, I don't want the,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want this next several years to be defined
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: by a contest, you know, between who can be more
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: clever in sort of gaming the system. I don't think
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: we have to, if we are the party that honestly
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: is responding to a system that is in many ways
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: corrupt and rigged against people. And we're offering a real
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: vision for the future that holds out some promise for
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: real bold and genuine reform.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I go back and forth on this too. I
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: generally believe that it is in the country's interest to
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: find ways to make our institutions more democratic. And when
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: they are rigged for one party or the other, that
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: is bad because it suppresses the popular will. That's why
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I'm very open to term limits for Supreme Court justice,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: things like that. The one thing I'm very confident that
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: we just have to do and it's not an option
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: is redistrict to maximum advantage in 28 in the states
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: where we can do that. Just because you just can't,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: this is a little bit like we hate dark money,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: but the other side is taking all the dark money.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So we can't unilaterally disarm. I think we cannot unilaterally
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: disarm here. So I think whether it's Oregon, Colorado, Illinois, Maryland, Pennsylvania,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: these states where we have control, we have to do
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: it because they're just the number of states that Trump
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was one three times. just hold a lot more seats
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: in the number of states that Democrats have won three times.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So we kind of have to do that.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: No, I don't disagree. I don't disagree with that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I hate it, but.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just, you know, like changing the age
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: limit on the Virginia Supreme Court. I don't know about that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's where we want to be. So,
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: you know, I just don't want, well, Trump would do
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: it to be, always be the yardstick by which we
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: measure ourselves. One of the geniuses of Trump. And let's
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: be clear. He is, he is, he does have certain genius.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, uh, kind of an idiot savant in many ways,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: but he, but one of them is that, um, he,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: he exposes hypocrisy very well. I mean, you know, when
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: you see the law firms that folded and the, and the, uh, uh,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: universities that folded and, um, and all the politicians who
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: have folded on principles that they heretofore had held close,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: you know, his point, this is what Donald Trump really believes.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: He believes the world is the hunger games where the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: strong take what they want and the weak fall away
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: and everybody has a price and rules and laws and
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: norms and institutions are for suckers. That's what he believes.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: And every time someone submits to that, because they think
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: they're going to somehow win his favor, they help prove
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: his point. But that's separate from this issue of redistricting.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: But he does bait you into these fights so that
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: he can say, well, they're no better than I am.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If everyone's corrupt, you might as well take me.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. Yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Let's move to the Senate here, where, John, despite discussions
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of possibly making Venezuela a state, Trump has been unable
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: so far to rig the map in his favor, although
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: he has some advantages of inherent. In some of the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: states that Democrats need to win or have to win,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: like Iowa and Michigan, we're in the midst of some
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: pretty divisive primaries, which are, they're exposing all kinds of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: divides in the party. They're being treated as proxy battles
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: for the future of the party. How much do you
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: worry about this sort of Democratic division? Do you think
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: it's generally healthy for the party to have these fights now?
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to avoid them. You even though sometimes
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: those in Washington would like to have that. At some point,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: you know, you do hope that people will evaluate their
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: own chances to win a primary and, you know, perhaps
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: influence the outcome of a primary, but with no chance
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: to win if people get to that point. But, you know,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: you would like to field the best candidates in the
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: general election. And part of the way you find out
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: who the best candidate is, is to see what they
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: do out there. I think in Iowa, you know, I
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: think Turek is probably the strongest candidate in the general election.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And I think he'll, and I think he is showing
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: himself to be that and will probably be the nominee.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: You know, Michigan's a more complicated case. It's a three-way race.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Just in terms of, skills as a political athlete, Abdul
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: El-Saeed is probably the most gifted athlete of the three. Whether,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: you know, there's concerns about whether he, you know, in
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: terms of his positioning, is the best candidate for the
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: general election. And we'll have to see. But I do
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: know this, if Democrats are going to take over it's
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: almost impossible to believe that Democrats would take the Senate
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: without Michigan, without holding.
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: Absolutely.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: So that's a, that's, that's the reason for people's concern.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And it's a, it's a legitimate concern.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: This is a perfect opportunity for me to point out
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that Potsdam America is hosting a Michigan primary debate on
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: next Sunday's episode, where Alex Wagner is going to host
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: a conversation with the three Democrats in the race, Abdul El-Sayed,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Mallory McMorrow, and Haley Stevens. Very excited about, very excited
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: about this one.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't even know that. And I, I set
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: you up nicely there.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I know, I know. Why ask the question? For the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: hope that I would get to the point where I.
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: Could say that.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Well, you're pitching, I'm catching, brother.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 15:57
  Speaker 7: Pod Save America is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees.
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: Fast Growing Trees is America's largest online nursery with thousands
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: of trees and plants for every space and every climate.
• 16:06
  Speaker 7: And they make it easy to get plants that actually
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: work for your yard, Delivered right to your door. Okay,
• 16:11
  Speaker 7: we can sense a little skepticism about ordering live vegetation online.
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: John is skeptical. But the proof is in the planting.
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: Sure is.
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: They said their line was the proof is in the plants.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: Proof is in the pudding. The proof is in the planting.
• 16:23
  Speaker 6: You're right, Tommy. I nailed that.
• 16:25
  Speaker 7: Fast-growing trees, that punch-up was free. Has shipping plants down
• 16:28
  Speaker 7: to a literal science. Every plant is hand-picked and carefully inspected,
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: and their packaging is designed specifically to keep them secure
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: in transit so they don't get damaged. They even have
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: a lab where they test the best packaging materials. to
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: protect against cold, heat, humidity, and more. So when your
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: plants arrive, they look like you just bought them at
• 16:44
  Speaker 7: the local nursery. Plus, every order is backed by their
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: Alive and Thrive guarantee. So in the off chance you
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: have issues with the delivery, you are covered. Right now,
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: Fast Growing Trees has deals on spring planting essentials. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: listen to get an additional 20% off your first order
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: with the code CROOKED at checkout. That's 20% off at fastgrowingtrees.com
• 17:05
  Speaker 7: with the code CROOKED. Terms and conditions may apply.
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: Today's show is sponsored by Strawberry.me. Thinking about switching jobs?
• 17:13
  Speaker 8: Oh, no.
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: Was not expecting that answer.
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: No, I'm a no.
• 17:15
  Speaker 5: Ask yourself these questions. One, am I growing or showing?
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: No.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: One, am I growing or just repeating the same experience
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: over and over?
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: Definitely the latter.
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: That's a tough one. Okay, let's go to two. Do
• 17:29
  Speaker 5: I feel energized by my work?
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: Sun's in the day.
• 17:31
  Speaker 5: Or am I constantly drained and counting the hours until
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: it's over?
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, boy.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: No, I feel very energized.
• 17:36
  Speaker 6: Today I feel drained.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true.
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: It's Friday.
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: Do I know what my next career move should be?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: No.
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: Or am I just hoping something better shows up?
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: Yes. I mean, yeah.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: If you think it might be time for a change,
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: you should talk to a career coach through Strawberry.me.
• 17:50
  Speaker 6: Think they could get me on Rogan?
• 17:52
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: Their coaches work with you one-on-one to understand your strengths.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: Identify your gaps. and build a clear roadmap toward a
• 18:00
  Speaker 5: career you're actually excited about. Like when Tommy appears on
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: Tucker Carlson's show and takes.
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: Over for him.
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: Because the biggest risk isn't making the wrong move, it's
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: staying stuck without a plan.
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: That's true.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: Take control of your future at strawberry.me slash cricket today
• 18:15
  Speaker 5: and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's strawberry.me
• 18:18
  Speaker 5: slash cricket.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: What about, what did you make of what happened in Maine?
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Because that seems to be sort of indicative of a
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: shift in the party, a shift in what people are
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: looking for, maybe a sense that the Senate leadership or
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: the establishment is, at least in that race, was not
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: in touch with what the voters wanted?
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of factors here. One is that
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I think we're in an anti-establishment moment, and that's true
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: in both parties. I think there is a real jaundice
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: about the status quo. I mentioned earlier, 70% of people
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: in polling say, The system is corrupt and rigged against them.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I think there is a sense that Washington, you know,
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: when you'll remember back in the day, Dan, when Barack
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Obama ran, one of the reasons he won was because
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: his campaign was a full out critique of Washington generally,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: not just the Republicans, but Democrats as well. And the
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: sort of red, red, blue, who's up, who's down campaign.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: kind of struggle for power that had nothing to do
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: with people's lives, lives or principal concerns. I think we're
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: back there again. And so establishment candidates are at a disadvantage.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: And Janet Mills is a perfectly good person and has
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: served honorably, was very much the establishment candidate. And she
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: had the stamp of Senator Schumer on her to certify
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: that she was the establishment candidate. And she would have
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: been 79 years old when she got sworn in. So
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: part of the other discontent people feel after two octogenarian
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: presidents is with, you know, the gerontocracy in Washington, which
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: also speaks to establishment politics. People don't feel like the
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: folks in Washington are in touch with their lives or
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: focused on their lives. And I think Trump has exacerbated
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: it because he ran contending that he was. And then,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: you know, and he now we're into, you know, ballrooms
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and monuments and, you know, graft on a scale we've
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: never seen before. This is one place where he says
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: nobody's ever seen anything like this before. He's right about this.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Nobody's ever seen corruption at this scale before. And so
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: people feel betrayed, you know, those who voted for him
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: or who had some hope for him. And all of this,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I think, makes a candidate like Plattner in Maine, you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: appealing because he's a grassroots guy. He seems to be
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: speaking the language and living the life of people who
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: feel unrepresented. And I mean, but it was stunning the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: degree to which he was able to take that, you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: by storm. I mean, just literally blow the incumbent governor
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: out of the race. You know, I actually wonder a
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: little bit if he would have been better served by
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: her hanging around for a while.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: I 100 percent agree with that. You know, there was
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: no need to start for it. I'm not surprised Plattner won.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I was very frustrated at the DSCC and Schumer for
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: endorsing Mills to begin with for all the reasons you said,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: just the idea that we were just going to decide
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: from on high in Washington that our best chance against
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Susan Collins was a 79-year-old establishment politician. And I say
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that as someone who likes Janet Mills and interviewed her
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: on the show, which is no Joe Biden.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: No, she's not.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: But it's just, it's the model everyone rejected last time.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: And Plattner turned out to be You know, I certainly
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: thought he would definitely win prior to all the online
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: posts and then thought he, you know, he navigated that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: well enough to survive and then knock her out of
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: the water. But he would have been much better off
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: if this had gone to the end. He had a
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: chance to beat her. You delay the general election by
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: another month. Instead, now he's already got negatives against him from,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: you know, pros to cons.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't blame her, though. She ran out of money.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: And I'm not sure that she was that eager to
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: hang around just to let him claim the trophy, you know.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: So the thing, one other thing I think this underscores,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: and you know this from your own career, don't let
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: yourself get talked into running for an office you don't
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: want to run for. Because it's never going to end well.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: You're not going to be an effective candidate. You know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, Plattner, by the time she dropped out, he
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: had done, I think, more than 50 town hall meetings
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: in the state. She had done, I think, zero. uh,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you know, and if I've, you guys have a huge listenership. So, um,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will tell me.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: It's a number closer to zero than 50. I'll tell
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: you that.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, there's no doubt about it.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And, uh, uh, you know, um, you, you, you know,
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: he's hungry for this and, and, uh, and he's eager
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: for it and he's young and he's going after it. And, um, so, uh,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: Getting drafted against your will is a bad way to
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: enter a race. Don't back into a race.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Another race the Democrats are very excited about and very
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: interested in is Texas. Our old boss made his first
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: campaign appearance of the cycle, getting some tacos with James
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Tallarico and Gina Hinojosa, who's running for governor. Trump weighed
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: in on the race on his way back from China
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: on Air Force One. Let's take a listen to what
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: he had to say.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: The Democrats have a weird, a weird cat today. Six genders.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: A real hit on Jesus. I mean, this guy, this
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: man with his mask from relatively recently. He's a vegan.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: He's a vegan. All of a sudden, he's not a vegan.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: He was a vegan. Now, all of a sudden, he's not.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Texas doesn't like vegans. I do believe either one of
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: them will easily win the race. I think that the
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: candidate the Democrats have in Texas is a very flawed candidate.
• 24:23
  Speaker 9: Very weak.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I think he's a pathetic candidate, especially for Texas.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: You know that Shakespeare thing about thou doth protest too much? But,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: you know, what's interesting about the dynamic in the Republican
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: primary is that the folks who want John Cornyn, they'll
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: say privately that they think Tallarico's too left for Texas.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: They've got plenty of stuff. They could take him out. Uh,
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: but they're not saying anything because right now what they're
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: saying is Tallarico can win unless we knock Paxton out
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of Paxton out of the race. If Paxton wins, Tallarico
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: can win. Once this primary is over, they're going to
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: open up on him and they're going to, along the
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: contours of what Trump is saying. I'm sure he was briefed.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: A bunch of his guys are working on the Cornyn campaign. Um,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: but interestingly, he hasn't endorsed, uh, Cornyn, um, I trust
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: that when Tallarico went out for tacos that he had
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: beef or chicken.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: She's not a vegan, as Trump pronounced it.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: A vegan, yes.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Not a vegan taco.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Not a vegan. Did he say– did I hear that right,
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: that he's bad on Jesus or something? What did he
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: say there?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: He said he had a hit on Jesus, which references,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I think, I'm guessing here, which shows I'm way too online,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the– Great question. I think it was at the same
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: time he said the six genders thing. I don't really know.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: But there have been some clips from a speech he
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: gave in 2020, I imagine, or right after that, that
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: have been going around. I think Trump has obviously seen
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: those and he is doing it. But I'm not sure
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: the idea that James Federico's anti-Jesus is going to sell.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: No, I'm sure that he would love to have that
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: conversation directly with the president. You can't violate... many of
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: the major 10 commandments, uh, and then start going after
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: someone else, uh, over their Christianity. You know, I mean, um,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, Tallarico is clearly, uh, very, uh, you know,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: serious about his faith. And that's one of the reasons
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: he is where he is, uh, because that's translated really well.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: And he, you know, he, he has, um, um, he
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: has preached, uh, the gospel of the brotherhood of man and,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: people who are so tired of all this conflict are
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: responding to him. So we'll see what happens. Look, I
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: think Texas is hard. You and I have gone through
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: campaigns together where we held out hope for states like
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Missouri at one point, and it always turned out to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: be fool's gold. And the question is, is that the
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: case here? One of the wild cards in Texas is
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: that Trump won a solid victory there, but it was
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: with a lot of Hispanic votes, particularly in South Texas.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: The two biggest losses in terms of support for Trump
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: have been among Hispanics and young people. You know, Hispanic voters,
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I think they're very sensitive to economic issues. They're a
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: working class constituency in the main. And I think in
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: South Texas, I think they were eager for border control.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: They weren't eager to be racially profiled. And I think
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: because of all the stuff that ICE has done, combined
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: with the economic stuff, he has completely dealt away the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: advantages that he gained among Hispanic voters. That puts Texas
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: more in play. It also means that they're probably not
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: going to capture all the seats they thought they were
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: going to capture when they gerrymandered the state.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Texas is interesting. I think Tallarico is a uniquely
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: talented candidate.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: He's very good. He is, I think, if anyone can
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: do it, it's James Tallarico in this year, particularly against Paxton.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: The Latino numbers you point out are very notable. Pew
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: has a poll out today which shows that Trump's approval
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: rating among Latino Trump voters is down 30 points since
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Election Day 2024. That's a big chunk of voters. We
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: saw this in the primary, right? It's a primary, but
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Tallarico got more primary votes than Kamala Harris got votes in,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes by a magnitude of two or three
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: in some of these Rio Grande Valley counties. She got
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: two or three times the number of votes Kamala Harris
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: got on election day in 2024. So there's obviously some persuasion.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: This is not just turnout. There's some persuasion happening here
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: because a lot of these people, these Latinos who voted
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: for Trump were registered Democrats. So it's interesting.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: No, I was going to say, just on the Hispanic issue,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: I think one of the reasons Trump is harping on
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: him and Christ is that I think it's very advantageous
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: for Tallarico to be able to go into churches across Texas,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: including Hispanic churches, and as fluent as he is in scripture.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: And so I think Trump is trying to chip away
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: chip away at that. What were you going to say?
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about the decision to
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: have Obama come to Texas for him. Like, it is
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a race where he's got to win. You know, Trump
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: won Texas by 13, I think. He's got to get
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people who pulled the lever for Trump
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to vote for him. Do you think bringing in Obama
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: was a good move?
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: You know, I haven't seen his numbers in Texas, but
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: my guess is that looking at his numbers nationally, they're
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: not They're not bad. And there is a, you know,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: Obama's not campaigning that much for candidates at this juncture.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I'm sure he will. But there is a stature thing.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It kind of elevates Tallarico in the race. And he
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: may just want to, you know, because of the whole
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: vegan thing, as you said, Trump said, maybe he just
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: wanted a guy who really appreciated a good beef taco.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think also, I imagine, I'd have
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to look at it, I imagine that Obama's numbers with
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Latino voters, even Latino voters who voted for Trump, are
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: quite good. And so with, like, Tallarico's smart. His campaign's
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: being run by smart people. They're not just doing this
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: because it's good for TikTok views. Like, they obviously have
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: looked at their data that suggests that with their target voters,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Obama is a plus. And the other, it's not like
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: there are a bunch of Republicans who are going to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: stay home because they're mad at Trump and all of
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: a sudden Barack Obama shows up for tacos one day
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: in May. Like, okay, we're turning out.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: One last thing on this. I mean, one of the
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: reasons Trump's going after Tallarico is because it seems pretty
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: clear that he's decided to stay out of this race.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: There was a presumption that he was going to endorse
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: John Cornyn as the most likely candidate to win. He's
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: now been convinced that either of them can win. But
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the Paxton question is really an open one because he's
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: a guy who is absolutely freighted with scandal. and while
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: he's very popular with the Republican base, he could be
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: very vulnerable with some traditional Republican voters in the suburbs
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: around the big cities there. I don't think Obama's going
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to play badly with those voters. I don't think it's
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: going to hurt Tallarico to have him there with those voters.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: So we'll see. But I will say, I mean, because
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: of the fool's gold PTSD I have, You know, I'm looking,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I look at Iowa, for example, and I'm wondering,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: is Iowa ultimately going to be a better shot than Texas?
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Is Alaska, with Mary Peltola and the ranked choice voting
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: system against a very weak incumbent in Sullivan, does that
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: give you a better chance? Here's the thing. When you,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, you have to win a couple of states
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: where Trump won by double digits in any case. And
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: you want as many opportunities as possible. So Democrats can
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: turn to Alaska, to Iowa, to Texas, even, and I
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: think it's the longest of them, but even Nebraska, you know,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: where you have an independent candidate supported by Democrats who
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: did very well in a Trump landslide last time against Ricketts,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: the senator, the incumbent senator, former governor. I think that
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: there's a better than 50-50 chance that Democrats can piece
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: it together, assuming that the wave is what we think
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: the wave could be. And remember, the wave is more
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: important in these Senate races. They may piece districts together
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to hold down the House margin, but statewide, you know, harder.
• 33:23
  Speaker 7: Positive America is brought to you by Tommy John. What
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: do you love about Tommy John? Well, it's not just
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: a surgery anymore. You know what it is?
• 33:31
  Speaker 5: It's not just your two hosts right here.
• 33:34
  Speaker 6: It's an undies brand. That's right.
• 33:36
  Speaker 7: And they have all kinds of actually undergarments. They got
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: t-shirts and all sorts of great stuff. Well, here's what
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: you like about Tommy John. Their underwear, they're soft and
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: they're durable. They're breathable and they're lightweight for all day comfort.
• 33:48
  Speaker 5: You don't want your underwear suffocating.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: They've got a curved pouch. designed for comfort and control
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: to support and flatter your natural shape.
• 33:57
  Speaker 5: Do you feel your, does your natural shape flatter?
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: It flatters the hell out of what I got.
• 34:02
  Speaker 7: The stay put waistband ensures your Tommy John's won't roll, bunch, pinch,
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: or leave marks. And their unique quick draw fly provides
• 34:08
  Speaker 7: a horizontal opening for fast, easy access when nature calls.
• 34:13
  Speaker 6: Here's the thing about Tommy John.
• 34:14
  Speaker 7: I bet you have sitting in your drawer right now
• 34:16
  Speaker 7: a bunch of old disgusting underwear that is like a
• 34:19
  Speaker 7: year past its prime.
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: This is what you do. You go to the drawer,
• 34:22
  Speaker 6: you take the underwear, you.
• 34:23
  Speaker 7: Throw it out, you put it all in the trash,
• 34:25
  Speaker 7: and then you go to Tommy John.com and you.
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: Buy it all again.
• 34:30
  Speaker 7: Maybe you buy it first, wait till it arrives, then
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: throw out your other underwear. Otherwise you're going to be
• 34:34
  Speaker 7: commando for a tough period.
• 34:35
  Speaker 6: So here's what you do.
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: Go to Tommy John.com today. Save 25% off your first
• 34:39
  Speaker 7: order with the code crooked comfort, perfected. Just use code
• 34:43
  Speaker 7: crooked at checkout and upgrade your essentials today. TommyJohn.com saved
• 34:47
  Speaker 7: 25% on your first order with the code crooked.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Senate map is, I mean, it's challenging. It's
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: kind of shocking. And it says everything that we'd be
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: sitting here now. And you'd say it's a coin flip
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: that we take the Senate or maybe even a little
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: bit better than a coin flip. When I look at it,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: if you're just doing most likely scenarios, I would probably
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: pick Alaska of the Texas, Ohio, Iowa, Alaska. Probably I'd
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: pick Alaska just because of the fact that Mary Patel
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: has won in that state before. There is ranked choice voting.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Dan Sullivan is particularly unpopular. And then, you know, I
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: think maybe Ohio.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: And then the other state.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I think Ohio. You know, Sherrod Brown came pretty close
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: last time as Trump was carrying the state by double digits.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And he's running against a senator who was appointed who's
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: never run on his own statewide, uh, and who doesn't
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: have a, you know, a huge, um, image in the state.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: So he's going to be more associated with Trump, um,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: just by dint of, um, uh, of having no real profile.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, he'll try and be, he was DeWine's guy.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: He'll try and run that way. Uh, but he can't
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: run away from Trump. Trump won't allow him. And it's
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: very hard, as you know, to run away from an
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: incumbent president anyway. So, uh, Sherrod Brown was an economic
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: populist before economic populism was cool. I'm not sure that
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: I would rate Alaska over Ohio, but I think that
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the most likely combination, if Democrats are to take the Senate,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: would be North Carolina, Maine, Ohio, and Alaska.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sort of stipulating Maine and North Carolina as must
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: wins because winning three of the other four is hard.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But he, he, Plattner is going to, you, you
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: saw a David French wrote a very tough column in
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: the New York times this week about him. And, uh,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, not that people read that, but that was
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: the tenor of what he, you know, they're going to
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: go back at him with more ferocity. Um, And but
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: Susan Collins, you know, after all this time and given
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: the nature of the times is is a is a
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: really vulnerable candidate, you know. So we'll see for all
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the reasons we discussed earlier.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: It's the Susan Collins thing is interesting because she has
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: been like she is a Republican in a state. The
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Democrats win by nine points. We should beat her. Should
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: have beaten her in 2020. She's very tough to beat.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: She's been fortunate enough to be able to avoid some
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: of the worst votes this time around because of the
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Senate margin.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they cut her loose to do it.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she didn't have to vote for the beautiful bill.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: She got to take a pass on some of the
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: worst cabinet appointments. But she still is a Republican in
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: a Democratic state and one who represents status quo. It's
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: going to be a very fascinating race. And the question
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: is– and you and I both know the folks working
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: on that race– can Plattner withstand what will be a
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: massive amount of scrutiny, some of it from his own side,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: because there are people pretty pissed about how this race
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: played out, and every possible dollar dumped on his head
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: with some of the nastiest.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, I think time will tell about that. Yeah,
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I heard someone tell me about a focus group in
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: that state, and someone was talking about Susan Collins, and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: they said she's only bipartisan when it doesn't count. And
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I think that's something that a lot of voters there
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: kind of intuit. And, you know, she didn't vote for
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: all of Trump's Supreme Court nominees, but she voted for some.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: She voted for the ones that counted, for sure.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: As I pointed out to someone, you know, you can
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: remove a tattoo, but you can't remove a Supreme Court justice. So,
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: you know, we'll see how this goes. It'll be a fascinating,
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: fascinating race. But I'm assuming that Platner wins the race
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: in the end.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: That's my hope for sure. You know, both in the
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: House and the Senate, everyone keeps saying the campaign is
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: about affordability, affordability, affordability, affordability. Like obviously just saying the
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: word affordability is not actually a message. Although, you know,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: some Democrats have the habit of reading the stage directions
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: instead of the script. And so they're just saying affordability
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: over again. Is a message around affordability enough? Does it
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: need to be bigger than that? What do you think
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Democrats should be saying?
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that we have structural issues. issues in
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: our economy. We've got the affordability issue is hitting people hard,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: but people have been kind of bobbing in the water
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: and not gaining for a long time. And the polarity
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: in our economy gets worse and AI is going to
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: turbocharge that. at least in the short run, maybe in
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: the long run. I don't know that it's necessary to
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: win in November. There are discrete things you could propose
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: in order to win in this November, but as I said,
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: it's largely a referendum. Anybody who runs for president better
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: have a much bigger vision about how you reform a
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: system that was broken before. I think it's a mistake
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: to assume that when you run in 28, that the
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: message could be, we're just going to kind of restore
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: everything that Trump knocked down because people weren't that happy
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: with the system before he knocked it down. Uh, I mean,
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: they didn't feel they were being well served and, you know,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: they felt the system was corrupt. They felt it was
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: rigged against them. They felt that, um, they weren't getting ahead. Um,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: and that's, you know, it requires big structural kinds of answers, um,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: that you know, to not only to put some equity
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: into the system, but also to genuinely try and reform
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: a system that is, you know, since our, you remember
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: when our boss warned people about Citizens United in 2010,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: and Justice Alito was deeply offended by that and shook
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: his head on the floor. Everything he said has happened.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, we are awash in money and dark money
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and pernicious influence. And it all conspires against working people.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: So campaign finance reform is really important. We also have
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: to think, I think Democrats, you know, what strikes me, Dan,
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: is that we have this battle going on between the
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: great ideas of the 19th century and the great ideas
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: of the 20th century, you know, tariffs and no civil
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: service and so on from the 19th century and then
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: sort of Rooseveltian structures in the 20th century. And we're
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: in the 21st century. And we ought to be thinking
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: about how do we solve the problems of today using
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: the tools of today and not be wedded to the
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: old ways of doing things. Be wedded to creating a
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: country in which people can work hard and get ahead
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and where we can deal with some of our most
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: pressing problems. but don't assume that the way we approach
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: them in the 20th century is necessarily the way we
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: have to approach them now. I think there's a lot
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: of room for a genuinely, uh, reform oriented, uh, candidate
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: who has some vision for the future, uh, to, uh, to,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to move this country. I also, now you put the
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: quarter in and you're getting 10 plays, but.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I, um, I expect nothing less. I love it. I, uh,
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: but you know, I've been thinking.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: A lot about this election and, um, no two elections
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: are alike. Um, but if you were going to say, well,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: what is this election most like? It goes back to
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: one that you will not remember, but I do, which
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: is the election of 1976. It was the first election
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I ever voted in. Um, uh, when, um, right after
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Watergate and the country was stunned by what happened in
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Watergate by the corruption of Richard Nixon. And, um, And
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: by the way, you know, there was a real politicization
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: of the Justice Department, of the CIA, a lot of these.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was somewhat analogous to what we're facing today.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: People wanted a cleansing. They wanted to give Washington an angioplasty.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: They wanted a fresh start. And that's how Jimmy Carter
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: emerged in 1976. No one would have known who Jimmy
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Carter was at this point. And he became... the nominee
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: of the party, and he won. I don't know who
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: that person is, but I think that two things, qualities
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: of character are going to be very important. Empathy, decency, honesty, integrity, humility,
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: all the qualities that Trump doesn't have are going to
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: be prized in 2028. And the second thing is, I
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: think being an outsider who's willing to really challenge orthodoxy
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: in Washington, challenge the institutions on behalf of people, is
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: going to be a candidate who's well-received.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: This is a perfect segue to what I want to
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: get to, because we're going to have a little fun here.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to play some clips from some 28, potential
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: 28 contenders, and I'll get your take on them, both
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: as messengers, what they're saying. But before we get to that,
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: I want to, you sat down with AOC at the
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Institute of Politics before a live audience. One of her
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: answers went quite viral. I'm going to play it for audience.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about it.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: It was very clear this was a veiled threat, right?
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: So the elite saying, if you want this job, you
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: just stepped out of line. They assume that my ambition
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: is positional. They assume that my ambition is a title
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: or a seat. And My ambition is way bigger than that.
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: My ambition is to change this country. Presidents, come and go. Senate,
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: House seats, elected officials, come and go. But single-payer health
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: care is forever. A living wage is forever. Workers' rights
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: are forever. Women's rights, all of that.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: So a couple of questions on this. That answer was
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: a Rorschach test for people about whether she was going
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to run for president or not run for president. I
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to see, how did you take that? Do you
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: think that means she's planning on running for president, planning
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: on running for the Senate, doesn't yet know?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: First of all, let me say, I thought it was
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: a really powerful answer. You know, I heard Favreau say
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: the other day that if you want to run for president,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: you better know what you believe. And what she was
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: saying there is, I'm not in politics alone. for a job.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I'm in politics for goals that might impact positively on
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: people's lives, the kind of people who I grew up with,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: the kind of people live all over this country. And
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: I think she really means it. And I think that
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: authenticity is really powerful. That said, if you, you know,
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: she said other things in this answer and elsewhere in
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: this conversation that made me think, She really isn't hungering
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: for that job. And if I were her, what I
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: would be thinking is, I want to have an impact.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm not ready to sideline myself. The chances of
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: anyone getting elected president, no matter how good they are,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: are limited. And, you know, she's 36 years old now.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: She'll be 38. She could walk into that Senate seat
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: in New York. And interestingly, with this crowd of young people,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, some people would like to see
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: you run for president. A bunch of them cheered. And
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: I said, others would like to see you run for
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Senator Schumer's seat in New York. Louder cheers.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell if they were cheering for her to
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: run for senator or cheering for the fact that you
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: said Schumer was up.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was definitely a combination of those two things.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: You know, she's got a high class problem here. She'd
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: get a lot of votes if she ran for president.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: But I think the way I interpret what she said is,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go where I think I can continue
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: this fight for those things that I believe in and
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: have the most impact I can have right now. And
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: that led me to conclude that she is more likely
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: headed to the Senate race than to the presidential race.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, nothing she told me, nothing I... But was
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: that reading between the lines... I would be more surprised
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: if she ran for president than if she ran for
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the Senate. And you and I both know that she
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: would not be one of a hundred if she went
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: to the Senate. When Barack Obama went to the Senate,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: he was number whatever, 99, 98 in the Senate, but
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: he was not the 98th member of the Senate. People
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: were always interested in what he had to say.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have seen, I worked for, as you have
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: as well, worked for many politicians who were planning to
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: run for president and who got this question for the
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: years leading up to the actual announcement. And the general
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: approach is to just start muttering words until the questioner
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: stops paying attention. And they're terrible at it. And this
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: is the, I mean, I say this without any hesitation,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: the best answer I've ever seen of anyone asked that question.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, it really does help to
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: be motivated by doing something than by being something. I mean,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: the world of politics divides into these two cohorts, the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: people who run because they want to be something, and
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: that's the larger cohort. And then the smaller, more admirable,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: and the more impactful cohort are the people who run
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: for office because they want to do something. And that
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean they don't have personal ambition, but you really,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: you know, honestly, I would say this anybody runs for
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: president it's too damn hard to do it i don't
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: mean just to win but it's such an arduous thing
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: to do uh don't do it unless you know why
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: you're doing it and and just you know and if
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: you think that it's such a prize to live in
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: a gilded prison you're making a mistake, you know, no
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: one ever will, no one ever will feel sorry for
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: a president of the United States, but you do change
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: your life forever. And it's not all positive. I mean,
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: you basically give up your, you know, a lot to,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: to do it. I, you know, I, I think I'm
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: not saying that she won't run and I'm not saying
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: that she won't run someday. But based on what I heard,
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: And if I were betting on it, I would bet
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: that she's going to the one place and not the other.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: I had the same impression that she was, that he clearly,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: the people who have wanted to be president since they
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: were 17 years old. She said that. It's obvious in
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: the answer. And she's clearly not one of those people.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: She said that. She said, I'm not one of these
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: people who've been planning my campaign for an office since
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: I was seven years old. She said, we all remember
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: her when she, the night she got elected to or
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: nominated to the Congress. And she was in her headquarters
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: in a billiards hall in the Bronx with some supporters
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: around her, with her hand over her mouth and her
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: eyes wide open, watching these returns come in. She was
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: as surprised as anybody.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Whatever she decides. I think when she first came to Congress,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: she was clearly one of the best communicators in terms
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: of how you communicate. Like she understood the modern media
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: environment better than almost anyone in Congress, which is not
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: saying a ton, but you know, she's doing Instagram live.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: She's on social media. She knows how to do it.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: But I think in the last couple of years, she's
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: also become the best, one of the best messengers in
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: the party. Like about what she actually says, like is very,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: it's very powerful.
• 51:15
  Speaker 6: She came there.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: She's the youngest woman ever elected to the house. I
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: think we've watched her mature as a political leader and,
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: during those eight years. I think that process is ongoing,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: and I think she knows that too. But she's an
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: impressive person. The reason that she is so good, yes,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: she knows how to use social media and modern media,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: but the thing that you can't teach and the thing
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: you can't buy is the ability to communicate authentically and
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: to give people a sense that you're talking honestly with them.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: That's what great great political leaders do. And she has
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: that quality. So that's a hell of a thing to
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: build on.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: Pod Save America is brought to you by Bilt. We
• 52:08
  Speaker 5: can all agree that housing is expensive. Rent, mortgage, doesn't
• 52:11
  Speaker 5: matter which one you're paying. It stings every month. Sounds
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: like the California debates we've been watching. But Bilt can
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: make it feel a little better. Let me explain. Built
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: started out rewarding members on their rent. Now, as of 2026,
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: Built members can also earn points on mortgage payments wherever
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: they live. Every housing payment earns you points you can
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: use toward flights with top travel partners like United and Hyatt,
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, so much more. You can use
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: it for fitness classes. You can use it for parking.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: There's gift cards at over 120 brands. You can use
• 52:43
  Speaker 5: it as a down payment on a home, student loan balances,
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: different restaurants. But here's what I think is the most
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: underrated part. Built members also get access to a neighborhood concierge.
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: It can make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes, and find
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: new local spots all while being rewarded at more than 45,000
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: merchant partners. It's like having a personal assistant baked in
• 53:03
  Speaker 5: to where you live.
• 53:04
  Speaker 6: I don't think you should bake your personal assistant.
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: I don't think so either. But I would like a
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: neighborhood concierge.
• 53:10
  Speaker 6: That would be nice.
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: I wonder if you can use your built points from
• 53:14
  Speaker 7: your rent to go to a restaurant before you go
• 53:16
  Speaker 7: see rent.
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Musical.
• 53:18
  Speaker 6: Did you see it in Boston like I did when
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: you were in middle school? Yes, I did. It was
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: like the only play I'd seen in my life until
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: I was like 30.
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: I know that one song. That's all I've grasped from that.
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: The Candles one?
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:31
  Speaker 6: It's simple.
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: Anyway, what are we talking about, Bilt?
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there it is.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: There it is.
• 53:35
  Speaker 5: It's a math problem. It's simple. Being a renter and
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: now owning a home is better with Bilt. Join the
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: membership for where you live at joinbilt.com slash crooked. That's
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T dot com slash crooked. Make sure to use our
• 53:47
  Speaker 5: URL so they know we sent you.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: All right, let's watch some other people, see what you think.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I'm going to start with John Ossoff, who may or
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: may not run for president, but he certainly has to
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: win re-election in Georgia first. Let's take a look at
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: one of his recent rallies. How does American politics really work?
• 54:09
  Speaker 5: It's coin operated. Money goes in, favors come out.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: It's been running on secret money, corporate money, billionaire money.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: Both sides. Both sides.
• 54:31
  Speaker 9: Citizens United was the worst court decision in modern American history.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's singing from my hymn book there.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know. What do you think about
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: him as a communicator?
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: You know, he's a great communicator. I haven't seen him as,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: most of the time when I see him, he's behind
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: a podium. And, you know, there are other elements of
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: communication and I haven't seen a lot of that. Although
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I just spoke to someone, someone you and I both
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: know who saw him at an event. You may have
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: been at the same event because I think it was
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: out West and said he was really, really good and
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: kind of off the cuff interaction with people and so on. Listen,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: I take him seriously. Um, you know, if you, if
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: you believe what I said earlier about the kind of
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: candidate who will do well, he, he checks a lot
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: of those boxes and he hasn't been in, even though
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: he is a, um, Senator, he has not been there
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: long enough, uh, to be, uh, sort of corrupted in
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: people's minds as a, as a kind of fact, as an,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: a practitioner of, uh, of inside the beltway politics, which
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: he's not. Um, so I, you know, I mean, it's
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: a quick turnaround. He's young. Uh, but, um, I think
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: youth also is an advantage in this election because after
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: two presidents who were in their eighties, uh, I think
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: people are going to be really looking for, uh, for, uh,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: a more youthful candidate.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: You raised an interesting point. Cause I think he is
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: the best speech giver that I've seen in a while. He,
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a whole generation of politicians sort of
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: raised on Obama who speak like Obama. And I think
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: he does the best. Like, you can see it in
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: the tone. He has some of the same pauses, the
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: same cadence. But it doesn't look like Obama karaoke, which sometimes.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: You can't smell. Yeah, we've seen that too. He apparently
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: does a lot of writing. You know, Obama, you know,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: he had great speechwriters. You work with some of them.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: But they would tell you that, you know, they would
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: give him a product that was in good shape. And
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: then he would buff it up. or add things that
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: took it from one level to the next. And because
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: of that, he was familiar. He felt organic to the
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: copy he was reading. So I think he has that.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: But the other thing that people don't appreciate about Obama,
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: and you would because you travel around with him, like
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: those 87 days we spent in Iowa where he was
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: doing six, eight stops a day, more even, in small venues,
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: interacting with people. He was very good at that. You know,
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: you have to, running for president is a decathlon. It's
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: not just one event. So you can be great at,
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: you know, pole vaulting, but you still have to, you know,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: throw the javelin. And so the test of campaigns is,
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: how do you do all, do you do all the
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: events well enough to win? So I don't know that
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: about Ossoff, but he's certainly a promising politician.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to see him, you know, I mean,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: this is a very self-referential way to say, but like,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: can he pass the podcast test? Can he sit and
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: like shoot the show? Like, I was just watching a
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: clip of Obama.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: Well, that's subtle, Pfeiffer.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, well, he's been on our podcast. He's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: done fine. But it's like, it's not really, can you
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: come on Positive America or Hacks on Tap? It's can
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you go on Rogan or All the Smoke? Can you
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: relate to people on a cultural, personal level that's not
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: just politics?
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: The test that Vice President Harris wouldn't take.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 58:00
  Speaker 9: Yes.
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Let's do the next one is someone familiar to all
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: of us, Pete Buttigieg.
• 58:04
  Speaker 8: There is a powerful American majority for change and for
• 58:09
  Speaker 8: the things we believe in, because right now you've got
• 58:11
  Speaker 8: this administration that's created the illusion that their positions are
• 58:15
  Speaker 8: supported by most Americans. And it's just not true. Most
• 58:20
  Speaker 8: Americans agree that we should be taxing the wealthy more,
• 58:23
  Speaker 8: not giving giant tax.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: Cuts to billionaires.
• 58:26
  Speaker 8: Most Americans think it is nuts that we're being told
• 58:29
  Speaker 8: we can't have nice things like rural hospitals and good
• 58:33
  Speaker 8: roads and fully funded public schools at the same time
• 58:37
  Speaker 8: that you got billionaires paying a lower tax rate than
• 58:40
  Speaker 8: the nurses in those hospitals and the workers who work
• 58:43
  Speaker 8: on those roads and the teachers who teach in those schools.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: What do you make of Pete?
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: Well, look, um, In many, I've said this before, he
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: is as bright and thoughtful as anybody I've seen since
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: Barack Obama in terms of his ability to sort of
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: think in interesting ways and uh, posit arguments in ways
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: that really are clear and thoughtful. Um, and, uh, he's,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: he's a very, very talented guy and, and, um, I,
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: I really, I like him a lot. I mean, uh,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: and I think he's underrated in this, you know, I mean,
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: when you hear conversations, he's not, people don't talk about him,
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: but you know, every time you look at a poll
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: and some of it's name recognition, yes, but he's, he's
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: well regarded by Democrats and the things he's articulating out
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: there kind of they, they square up with some of
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: the things I'm saying. He's talking about renewal, not restoration.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: He's talking about reform, you know, like basic fundamental reforms
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: you know now, you know, I don't know whether experience
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: of the Biden administration is advantageous or not. Maybe not.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: I guess net neutral at best is maybe my guess.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: I wonder, I haven't never had this conversation with him,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: whether if he had to do it all over again,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: whether he would have opted for that. He might be
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: in better position than he was. You know, there's always
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: this question about an openly gay man running. Is America
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: ready for that? And look, the one thing that he
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: did not prove in 2020 was that he could win
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: black votes. And that is a really essential task for
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: anybody to get through this process. You know, black voters
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: in the South in particular are really, really important. And so,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: you know, there are questions, but the talent is undeniable.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Pete's incredibly smart. I saw him at
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: an event recently and he just, he's so good. Off
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: the cuff, he's so good answering questions.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he does the podcast. He passes the podcast.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all those things. The thing that was always, I think,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: not like the Black voters, it's just impossible. You can't
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: win the math as such with primaries across the South,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: the way delegates are allocated. There's no way to do it.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: That's why Obama won. That's why Hillary won. That's why
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: Biden won.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: But the thing about Pete's communication in 2020 was it
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: always felt to me like a little bit at a remove.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Like he was so good and so polished that, you know,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: it just, like there was this distance between him and
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: the audience.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's a really, I think it's an important observation.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: But I will say when he was on CNBC a
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago and he was arguing with Joe Kernan.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: I thought it was some of the best people. Like
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: Pete will go on and he'll like get every word
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: exactly right on Fox News and he'll stuff Sean Hannity
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: into a proverbial locker or whatever else and it's incredible.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: But when he was on with Joe Kernan, like he
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: showed He was so frustrated and so angered by the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: stupidity and the unfairness of what Cronin was saying. That
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: was one of his most authentic moments. I thought it
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: was quite, quite good and I think maybe indicative. His
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: life has changed a lot since 2020. He's got married.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: He's got kids. He's been through times. I think it'll
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: be very interesting to see how he's involved Canada this
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: time around because if so, there's real potential and he
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: benefits from the fact then New Hampshire is probably the
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: first state, and it's a place where he has a
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: great base of strength.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and continues to poll well. Don't underestimate the value
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: of having run the track before, or just to use
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: another sports analogy, he knows the lay of the greens.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: And running for president is not like running for any
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: other office. So he knows the pressures of it. He
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: knows the cadence of it. He knows this stuff. That
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: is a valuable asset.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: All right, let's look at Andy Beshear, the governor of Kentucky.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 9: You've seen how some of this speak has crept into
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 9: the Democratic Party, and we sound like we're talking down
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 9: to people. We've got to talk to people and not
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 9: at them. Kentucky got hit by that opioid epidemic as
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 9: hard as anybody, but maybe West Virginia. I mean, we've
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 9: all lost people we love and care about. I didn't
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 9: lose one to substance use disorder. I lost them all
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 9: to addictions. If we want to push back against this
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 9: president and what he's doing to snap, trying to hold
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 9: hungry people hostage for political gain, it can't be that
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 9: there'll be food insecure. It's got to be that they'll
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 9: go hungry. We've got to communicate to people in the
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 9: values that they know and how they would talk to
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 9: each other.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: Electability is obviously going to be a huge issue for
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Democrats as it was in 2020. No one has a
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: better electability story than this year. What do you make
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: of them?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Look, I mean, again, going back to the things I
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: told you before, I mean, you have to look at
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: him because he's an outsider. He's also a guy who,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: by the way, can go into those black churches and
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: in a compelling way. And, you know, and in terms
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: of empathy, most of the time when we've seen him
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: over the last eight years, it's because his state has
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: been beset by some natural disaster or, you a horrific
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: gun incident. And he's really, really good at that. He's
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: great at expressing empathy. I sort of agree with what
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: he said there. The thing I would say is it's
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: not just about the language that we use. It's about,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: and I've said this a lot of times, my objection
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: to Democrats since the Democratic Party has become a kind
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: of metropolitan college-educated Party is we're still a party of
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: working people or see us that way, see ourselves that way.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: But we approach them like missionaries and anthropologists. And we
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: show up and we say, we're here to help you
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: become more like us. And the implied message is that
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: what you do really isn't as important as what we do,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 2: except then when we have a pandemic and then we're
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: home and we're making our living on our computer and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: they're out there caring for us, protecting us, making things,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: shipping things. and doing everything it takes to keep the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: country going. And then we go out on our balconies
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: and we bang our pots and we say, you're the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: essential worker until the pandemic's over. And then they sort
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: of become invisible again. So I think it's more, it's
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: about more than just the language. We fundamentally have to
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: think about how we value people in our society.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: Last one we'll do is Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 10: We have an opportunity to have a real debate within
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 10: our party about what we stand for, about what our
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 10: affirmative vision is. It has to be about what we
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 10: are going to do to make people's lives better. And
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 10: I think that that is a debate that our party
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 10: hasn't had for a good long while. And that debate
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 10: is not only going to help the Democratic Party, I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 10: think it's going to be healthy for this country. And
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 10: what I can tell you for sure, is that I
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 10: want to be a part of that debate. Bring the
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 10: common sense sensibility of what we do in Pennsylvania to
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 10: that conversation.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Like Beshear, Shapiro has won the key state of Pennsylvania.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: He's likely going to win it again by a very
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: large margin, which will bolster his selectability case. What do
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: you make of Shapiro?
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: Look, he's a very talented and very smart. And what
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: he said, I obviously agree with. I.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: He's one of the guys who he can slide into
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: sort of pigeon Obama from time to time. And he's
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: taken a lot of criticism for it. He can be
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: a little irascible. And for him, I think the important
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: thing is to be real. He's so smart and politically
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: savvy that sometimes you feel like he's giving the politically savvy...
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: well manicured answer, and you don't know what, you don't
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: see the person behind it. So those would be the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: concerns that I'd raise. But look, I thought, you know,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: I thought he should have been the vice presidential candidate
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: in 2024. Probably good for him that he wasn't. But
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: I think highly of him. And he's got some good
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: stories to tell. That story about the sort of record
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: pace at which they repaired the fallen bridge in Pennsylvania
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: is a metaphor for something that Democrats need to struggle
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: with is, if you're the party of government, how do
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: you assure people that government can work? And he's got
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: some examples to underscore. He also, Dan, has forged a
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: relationship with working class voters and rural communities in his state.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: I think he does approach those voters respectfully and has
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: built alliances there that I think is very useful and
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: important and instructive. So, you know, again, you've got a
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: good assortment there. I know you only have a short
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: period of time, so you can't put all 106 aspirants
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: up there, but that's a pretty strong assortment of candidates.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: You know, Shapiro, It's probably not discussed enough how popular
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: he is in Pennsylvania. Being a popular governor of Pennsylvania
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: is not an easy thing to do. This is a
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: state that Donald Trump has won twice and has moved
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: away from Democrats. We have moved away from Pennsylvania demographically
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: as a party. He basically has a coalition that combines
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: the new version of the Democratic Party with these college-educated
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: suburbanites outside of the collar counties around Philadelphia with some
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: of the numbers that Democrats like Obama and Clinton had
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: in the rural parts of the state in the great–
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: the great expanse between Pennsylvania and between Philly and Pittsburgh.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: And it's very impressive. Let me ask you a question.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: And based on, you know, you've got your finger on
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: the pulse of the left and the party. You know,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: the question that comes up oftentimes from Jews, and I'm Jewish, is, well,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: can a Jew get elected given the antipathy toward Israel
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: now and Now, he's been a very strong critic of
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Bibi Netanyahu, but how big an issue is that? Do
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: you think that's an insuperable barrier for Democratic candidates? I don't,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: but you would know better. I don't believe being.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: Jewish is a barrier that cannot be overcome for a
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Democratic candidate. I think that any Democratic candidate is going
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: to have to have a vociferous criticism of the Netanyahu
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: government is going to have to take very strong positions
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: that would have seemed impossible a few years ago about
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: conditions on aid to Israel, about funding the Golden Dome.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, even R, your close friend, my old boss,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Rahm Emanuel came out suggesting he would not be for that.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I think what you cannot be seen, you don't want
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: to be seen in a Democratic primary as the pro-Netanyahu
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: candidate or the AIPAC candidate or someone who's associated with
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: the Biden's administration's position or policy on Gaza. So I
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: think he can do it, but those are going to
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: be tricky waters for him to navigate, given some of
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: the ways in which he's approached those issues in his past. Well,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: let me say- I think he's changed his rhetoric in
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: recent times.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, one thing you said I quite
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: agree with, the attitudes have shifted in ways we wouldn't
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: have predicted because Bibi has done things we never would
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: have predicted. Perhaps we could have or should have, but
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: the way he prosecuted uh, uh, the war in Gaza, uh,
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I, I say this as a, as a
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: Jew it's, you know, I, I was horrified and, uh,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: angered by what happened on October 7th. Uh, but that
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean that I don't grieve for the children of
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: Gaza and that I'm not repulsed by some, uh, the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: way that, that unfolded. And I, I don't think, uh,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: you're going to find candidates Jewish or not who, who don't,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: agree with that. One interesting thing is that they have
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: an election in Israel in October. Bibi Netanyahu may be
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: gone by the time this campaign begins in earnest. And
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: you wonder whether that changes anything, you know?
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a very open question of what the world
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: will look like when these candidates actually have to go
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: get votes in New Hampshire or whatever other states in
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: the early part of the calendar in early 2028. I
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: did not play a clip from Kamala Harris. If you
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: had asked me two or three months ago, I would
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: have put the strong odds against her running. I think
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: in the recent months, she's been out there more. She's
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: been doing more things that suggest that maybe she's seriously
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: thinking about running. What do you make of that?
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to make of it. I mean,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: she obviously is making noises as if she's going to run.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: And you know, once you run for president, especially when
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: you come as close as she did, especially under the
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: circumstances she did, very hard to look around and say,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: why not me? But I also don't think America's going to,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: and Democrats are going to ultimately go for the back
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: to the future candidate. You know, there's a lot of,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of seared memories of 24 and
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: a lot of it don't have to do with her,
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: but with her boss, you know, in the White House. But,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it didn't end well. There are a lot
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: of Democrats who we're hoping that it would. And part
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: of it did have to do with her inability or
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: reluctance to do the things that you have to do
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: at that level. You know, go on those podcasts, be real,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: be open. And, and of course the answer on the
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: view under the withering interrogation of the, of the people
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: on the view to not be able to answer the
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: question that I think any sort of competent, candidate at
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: any level would know how to answer when asked, is
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: there anything you would have done differently? She didn't have
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: to say, yes, these things. She could have said, I'm
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: grateful for the opportunity he gave me. I'm not going
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: to critique him here. I'm here to tell you, I'm
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: not running to be the second term of Joe Biden.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: I'm running to be the first term of Kamala Harris,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: and I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I mean,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: there are a million ways to have answered that question.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: She just couldn't find any of them. And those are
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: the moments that define campaigns.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's from her perspective, right? As you
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: came very close, you know, she believes, as many people
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: in the campaign, that given more time, she might have
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: actually won that race. Or if she had not been thrusted,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: if she had a chance to actually, if Biden had
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: just not run at all and she'd won a primary,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: she could have maybe actually won. No way to answer
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: that counterfactual. But you look at, you know, one way
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: she's leading in all the polls right now. And now
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: you and I know, and everyone knows that oftentimes the
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: person leading in the polls at the beginning is leading
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: by dint of name recognition and nothing else. And that
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: falls pretty quickly, like it did for Rudy Giuliani in 2008,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: Joe Lieberman in 2004. But it still is true that
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: you're not winning the Democratic nomination without running up the
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: score with black voters across the South. And you look
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: at that field right now, and she's the candidate best
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: position to do that. So you could she could make
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: an argument to herself about how she could win that nomination.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Now the question will be, you know, and this was,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: I think the experience John Kerry had when he was
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: thinking of running again in 2008 is he was all
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: ready to go, picked up the phone, started calling all
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: his old supporters and they were like, I'm with Hillary,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: I'm with Biden, I'm with Hillary, I'm with Obama, I'm
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: with Edwards. And she might have a similar, you know,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: And not just probably, you know, from what I understand,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: not just don't, not just supporters and donors, but even
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: some key staff, you know, look, I respect her and
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: she got thrust into a really difficult position, but I
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: just don't see this. And I, yeah, I mean, I
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: do think she's the beneficiary of early name recognition on
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: this issue. She may well do, you know, really well
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: with African-American voters in the South, but I keep thinking
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: back to 2019 when she was a co-frontrunner with Joe
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: Biden when she entered the race and she never made
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: it to Iowa. And her numbers in those southern states
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: weren't that good. So I don't know. I just don't
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 2: have enough information to know, but I think she's going
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: to receive some tough news from some of the people
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: whose support perhaps she was counting on.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: Anyone I didn't mention that you have your eye on?
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: Um, actually it's kind of uncanny because, uh, you, you,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: you listed a bunch of folks who, you know, look, um, uh,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: I got two guys from Illinois, right?
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was gonna, I was looking for a good
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: ROM clip to play at the end for you, but
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Look ROM, ROM, you know, I would say that, um, uh,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom won the presidential primary of 2025. I think
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Rahm is doing pretty well in 2026, at least with
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: opinion elites. I mean, he's throwing out a bunch of ideas.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: He's really aggressive, you know, and we'll see where that
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: takes him. Governor Pritzker is running for reelection, but it
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: seems pretty clear to me that he's headed in that direction.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: And he's shown a lot more serious political chops than
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: I would have expected when he first ran for office. He's,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: and he does have affection among some, among the Democratic base.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: You probably hear it in your own, and he's got,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: obviously he's got the advantage of resources. So, you know, I,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't draw him out of the, out of the circle.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: You know, rumors emanate from, Washington, that Cory Booker might
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: run again. He didn't do that well in 2020. But
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: he's got talents. He's got gifts. And in an election
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: that may be about sort of character and kind of the,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: you know, to borrow Biden's phrase, though no one should
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: use it, the soul of America, which honestly is going
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: to be important in 2028. You know, he's a guy
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: who can speak to that. But I, you know, I
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: don't know if he can, you know, do appreciably better
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: than he did. But I'm also like open to someone
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: we haven't, you know, someone coming from somewhere we don't
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: even know. Like I said, this is a thing, an
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: election that's grooved for an outsider. And it may be,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: you know, you hear about Mark Cuban, you hear other
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: people mention. So who knows? Who knows? I remember calling
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: Jon Stewart and in 2019 after Zelensky got elected president
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: of Ukraine, before Zelensky became, you know, the wartime leader,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: Churchill of our time. And I said to John, John,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: you know, short Jewish comedians, they're all the rage right now. So,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: you know, don't count him out.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 10: All right.
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: I think it's a great place to leave it. Jon
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: Stewart for president. David Axelrod, thanks for joining us.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: Always great to talk to you. See you in Chicago.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Dan.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 5: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 5: is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 5: Farrah Safari with Reed Gerlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 5: Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hefcoat, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis,
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 5: Kirill Pelleviv, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Single.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: America East.