Latest / Outside The Therapy Room / Episode 67 - The Small Signs You’re Actually Healing (Even If It Doesn’t Feel Like It) with Sarah

Transcript

Episode 67 - The Small Signs You’re Actually Healing (Even If It Doesn’t Feel Like It) with Sarah · Outside The Therapy Room

• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: As well as personal experiences and reflections, all in the focus of normalizing our humanism and helping you see that you're not alone.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is outside the therapy room.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to outside the therapy room.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Today we are joined by Sarah.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hi.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: How's your day going?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful outside.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: It is nice.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Spring is finally with us, which is good.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's we need we need the sunshine.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: We need lots of heat too.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully that will come sooner than later.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hopefully.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't feel like you really need to reintroduce yourself.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've been here a few times, but just a little general blurb about you for listeners who maybe haven't, it's their first time tuning in.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm Sarah.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a registered social worker and I'm a trauma therapist that works with a lot of folks who have complex PTSD, um, adverse childhood events, and I work to support them in their healing.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you're also our EMDR therapist at New Moon, um, which is awesome.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And make sure to tune in to um our episode about EMDR, where you share some more information of what that is.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but today we are talking about healing and what that means, the expectations that people might have on healing.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that sometimes I've heard from clients and from you know friends in my life that they think healing means like being happy all the time or like not having any triggers or any like strong emotions come up or feeling like they're over over it, whatever the over it may be.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, healing can sometimes be a little quieter.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not always um obvious or always comfortable.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's a little uncomfortable.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought we could talk a little bit about um, you know, what what people think healing is and then what it might actually look like.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So again, like I think a lot of people kind of imagine healing as being this big transformative moment.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like suddenly everything feels better, but that's not always the case.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: What have you found from the people that you work with?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've also experienced that.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people think that it's like this clear, like before and after moment.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one day I'm struggling, the next day I have no problems at all.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can handle everything perfectly.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but healing actually comes like really slowly and it could it can be kind of unexpected.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe in one situation you might be really dysregulated or angry, sad, you know, not know how to communicate well.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then you notice that in the same situation, you're not triggered the same way, or you know, you're not as sad, or you can communicate better, or you're not, you know, really angry.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's healing, right?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So healing often comes like in little chunks um rather than this like one big aha moment.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like with social media and everything, I think we talk so much about healing and like feeling better and regulating.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people may some like there's this misconception that regulation, like having your emotions be regulated means that you don't ever feel strong emotions, which also isn't the case.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those those are regulated emotions.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: If something, if there's a direct impact to us, if somebody hurts us in some way, then it makes sense for us to be angry or for us to be really sad in that moment.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't necessarily need to be a moment where we're like, oh my God, let's regulate our emotions, or I'm not healing anymore.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now I've like gone back a couple of steps because this impacted me so much.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Those are like normal emotional experiences that we have.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it does kind of um add this expectation, this unrealistic expectation of maybe what healing does look like for folks.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, remember with social media, you're you're watching or you're seeing people's best moments, right?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not seeing the in-between that they go through to get to that, to get to that moment.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard from a lot of clients that I've been, and and maybe this is something that you relate with as well.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've been working with them for such a long time, it may be like years, and they're like, well, I'm not done therapy.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like I haven't arrived to like my healing space, and then think that something's wrong with them, where it ends up being um kind of having some self-doubt, um, feeling like a failure.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of these things can kind of um, I've seen them kind of show up with that expectation of just having it be something we arrive, and now we're done.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're it's checked off the list, no more healing.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that's not realistic.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and I hear from a lot of clients, um, like one client in particular, I've worked I've been working with him for I think a year, just over a year, and they have made so much progress in their healing journey, but they struggle because they think that they should be somewhere else, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're not doing a good enough job or you're they're not doing something right, but you know, like healing, especially from complex trauma, will take can take years.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so like celebrating like those smaller wins, like those smaller moments, like you know, for example, this client can get out of bed now.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's healing, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, yeah.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think comparing yourself to who you were, not who you want to be or who you think you should be, is it's huge.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, you touched into something, which is like noticing those small signs.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about those small signs because I think it's like you said, it's things people miss um quite often.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, kind of like with what you shared, there's been moments in therapy where um I'm like, well, look at where you were the first day I met you versus where you are at now.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're able to talk about it in a different way.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, the you didn't lash out at that person.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You were able to feel angry, but you didn't lash out at them like maybe you previously did.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is kind of we are able to observe those very small changes of growth, but it can sometimes be a little bit more difficult for our clients to.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what would you say are some small signs that someone is actually healing?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think um like developing more of an awareness around what you're actually feeling in the moment.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes, you know, we're used to just reacting or being reactive.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: So healing can look like pausing before we react to something.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: It can be checking in with our emotions, giving our giving space to our emotions, you know, to be aware of what we're feeling and how we want to respond out of that emotion.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um recovering faster after being triggered by something.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: So if something happens, then usually, you know, you'd be a 10 out of 10.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you're a nine, that's healing, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think questioning old beliefs rather than just believing that everything that that you were doing is okay or not okay.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I think that that can be like those are like small signs of healing as well.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: The pausing before reacting is a big one.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's recognizing a less impulsive response.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like even just counting to yourself, like two seconds or sorry, three seconds, 10 seconds um before you respond to the person is good.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you also mentioned being aware of emotions.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think something that that we talk to clients about usually in the first session with our consent forms is um like this process can sometimes feel worse before it feels better.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time it's because we are unpacking the emotions or or we're highlighting them a little bit more.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what yeah, what's kind of your sense of that worse before better?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so a lot of the time, I almost feel bad saying this because I don't want to make people feel bad.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of the time when we encounter a difficult situation or we're triggered or we have like an uncomfortable emotion, rather than actually feeling it or dealing with it, we just push it away, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we avoid it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And when we go through a healing process, we're not like we're focused on not avoiding those uncomfortable feelings anymore.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that can make healing really difficult, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why healing can feel worse before it feels better, because we actually have to feel those things that we've been kind of pushing aside and avoiding.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the other trick with that is it's one thing to acknowledge how we're feeling, but it's another thing to know how to manage how we're feeling.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and so then it's also uncomfortable having to figure out, okay, now what do I do with this?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so yeah, I think that that healing can be is very uncomfortable.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say that like the discomfort, you know, clients are like, okay, well, I'm feeling all of this now, now I don't want to feel it anymore.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that easy, right?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it is kind of part of the process, and it's a great process, but it is important to kind of acknowledge that in the beginning.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think also boundaries are a big thing that I've um like obviously talked to clients about and have also heard back from them that um kind of setting boundaries for the first time feels super uncomfortable, but boundaries can also show up as a sign of healing.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, what are your thoughts on boundaries as like those small signs?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that boundaries, I mean, have a lot to do with self-awareness, self-respect, how we value ourselves, how we value our time, how we value things that are important to us.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we are in our healing era, it can be important to enforce boundaries that feel really uncomfortable because oftentimes we're worried about what the other person will say, how they'll react, what they'll do, and how that will affect us.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: But when we don't have those boundaries, you know, we're basically just telling people that they can treat us however we want and we're okay with it.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So boundaries are difficult because we're like setting a boundary about how we want to be treated.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes there would be a bit of kickback from the other person or you know, in whatever situation.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that's part of the healing journey.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people that respect you or and want to stay in your life, they'll they'll understand and respect your boundaries.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the the part of healing too is honoring that, honoring that we are are allowed to set those boundaries that like we we have value and worth, and we are also checking in on like our capacity.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if something isn't working for us anymore, we don't feel good about it, we kind of, you know, um what's the word?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, like feel maybe a little bit more confident about needing to set a boundary, even though it's still uncomfortable to actually set one.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard have you heard clients getting tired during the healing process before?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think one well?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have one client who like the has really complex trauma, lots of traumatic experiences as a child, and then re-victimization throughout their life, and they just want to be done.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: They they just want to be done, they want to be through this process.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, because healing is really, really difficult.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Really difficult.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it can be very, very hard, very uncomfortable.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's I think sometimes we go we come to therapy, we're like, oh, I you know, I'm gonna be healed.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be great.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then they encounter all of this really difficult work and uncomfortable work, and it's painful, and you have to, you know, um, like deal with all these things that have that have happened to you, that have been done to you.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really uncomfortable.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: And some people don't want to go through that, and I completely understand that, and they just want it to be over.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like that emotional fatigue, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're feeling all of this, and when you're used to not feeling or suppressing it, yeah, it's a different kind of exhaustion.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like when our all of our emotions are just raw and felt all the time, it can be a lot.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's also something like internal in our body that may happen as well.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like our nervous system is like recalibrating, and so you know, our our hormones are kind of shifting and changing, and that can also just make us feel like more physically tired.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, the other thing that you mentioned about a small sign was um like being curious about patterns or old patterns or thoughts or beliefs.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, kind of becoming aware of these cycles.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's a good one.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just having that awareness.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if you pay attention to the patterns in your life, you'll be able to, well your therapist can help you figure out he can help you.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's going on, why these patterns are repeating.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's usually like from my experience, usually from some form of trauma, developmental trauma attached with trauma earlier in life that has kind of caused this um, you know, a belief system or whatnot, where these patterns kind of repeat themselves.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good thing to do too.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think being aware, this is something that, like again, we may notice in session is when our clients are choosing differently.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they wanted to text their ex, but they didn't.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or they wanted to text their ex and instead they texted a friend.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, or or saying no to an opportunity that came up because it was just not gonna fit in their schedule, or leaving a I don't know, an uncomfortable situation earlier and previously they would have kind of just sat in discomfort.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we start noticing that our clients are choosing something differently for them, like to me, that's a little like, ooh, I'm gonna bring this forward to be like, look, you there is actual change that's happening that may not be kind of like that that the client just may not fully be aware of anymore.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it's always so fun to kind of sneak, sneak it back to them, be like, look, look what's happening.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is, I know.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I often do that with clients.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, remember like this time when you used to do this and you don't do it anymore, and they're like, Oh yeah, yeah, I I forgot about that, or like, yeah, oh yeah, that's so I can't believe, yeah.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're just yeah, and I think it's because they because healing is so slow and it's like really incremental at times, and so you know, day by day by day, you're not noticing these changes that end up being really huge changes, right?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I they're huge for me because I'm like, look at what you're doing.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're huge for me.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, let's celebrate the fact that you didn't text your ex and text it around and satellite.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah, I know.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think because it's just their day-to-day, like they're just like putting one foot in front of the other every day, they don't see how far they actually come.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I I actually love those moments so much because I'm like, hey, remember who you were like three months ago or six months ago, and now look at you, like look at how much progress you've made.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they also feel like really proud of themselves, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that a lot of folks in therapy miss out on that pride, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like they, you know, often walk in like shame or guilt more often than feeling proud about things that they've accomplished or things that they've done.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So this is another like moment to celebrate them as humans, um, yeah, along their healing journey.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so fun to be a cheerleader.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think we are cheerleaders for our clients, so it's so fun to have that celebration.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think another thing is grief.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, unfortunately, grief is kind of like this part of life, and we feel grief.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've had an episode before on different types of grief, but there is grief of um grieving who you were or how easy things were, or the people that were around you in a time where you know you maybe weren't doing your best, or you know, you were kind of healing from, um, and also like grieving maybe what you um had tolerated at the time, and just kind of feeling a lot of the feelings from there.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think grief is also a part of healing that isn't normally talked about.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in EMDR, one of the questions that we ask is is there any like drawback to your healing?
• 17:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because some people feel really comfortable where they are, right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Feel really comfortable it, you know, being I don't want to use the word sick, but that's what's coming to mind.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so grieving the loss of who they are in in their like concerns or their mental health concerns or what you know, whatever label we want to use here can be a detriment to the healing process, right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because they there's such an identity that they've developed being this way that you know, so who am I if I'm not this?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I as a healed person?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does my life look like?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: What do I look like?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: What do my relationships look like?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that yeah, there can be a lot of grief in like letting go of that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And also like with EMDR, a lot of people tell me, like, oh, I didn't I didn't realize my childhood was actually that bad.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I didn't realize that I didn't get to experience these things or that I was treated this way.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And right, like they some you think it's normal.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's also grieving like the things that you didn't get to experience or that you didn't have because of your trauma or things that have happened to you.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or like grieving what you ch what you thought your childhood looked like, and then realizing that that actually wasn't the case.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is a lot of that.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think again, like that's not discussed often.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think again, when like we talked about earlier, when people think about healing, it's like, yay, we've reached this destination, it's celebration, it's all of this.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: But the journey to get to that place, and even when you're at that that place of healing, there is still a lot of the sadness, the missing, the like the grief that we kind of discussed.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think it's important that we normalize that that is completely normal part of healing.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it is that like additional step that you might notice.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, you're on your way to yeah, absolutely.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, a couple more things just for folks to reflect on is um kind of like changing your interest.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So again, um, you know, maybe the group of people that you hung out with, and this maybe like is on top of the grief that we just talked about, but like outgrowing people, outgrowing habits, outgrowing environments that maybe we were in.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're kind of left feeling kind of like we're in between like our old version of ourselves with these people that we've outgrown and kind of trying to create this new version of ourselves with kind of new interactions.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so noticing that you're less interested in things that once felt normal is again like maybe an indicator that you're in the process of healing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the big one is talking to ourselves differently.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just kind of like that shift.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: If we're suddenly like not as harsh or our internal dialogue isn't so critical, um, we have more moments of self-compassion, like those are pretty big.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's a pretty big sign.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard to kind of reshift our brain.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's great.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Those are great examples.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last one, which I love to remind clients all the time is you're still showing up.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're still showing up, you're still showing up, and and you're still doing the work.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's a really big sign that you're still there, you're still trying, you're still kind of showing up for folks.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, why do you think people have such a hard time recognizing their own healing?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know we talked about it a little bit, but yeah, what are the comparison to others is huge, and then all or nothing thinking, um, like healing should look this way.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what are some other things you can think of?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also like I said, about um measuring themselves against where they want to be, like not where they started.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if we think about I mean, really any client, they had this ide idea or maybe idealized version of themselves and what they look like when they're healed.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of measuring themselves against where they started, they're like, Oh, well, I should be this.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I should be this by now.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I should be doing this, I should be healed this way by now.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is is this normal?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think the comparison piece is is huge.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: How can someone like start breaking away from that?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because it is kind of like you're it's a marathon, not a sprint, right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people don't see how far back the starting line was, like you said.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: So like what are some things folks can do to maybe start noticing those small shifts or or kind of change that um expectation or perspective that they have on healing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think like going back to your comment about social media or just other people, like comparing like to stop comparing our internal experiences to the external, like how somebody looks externally, right?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um you know comparing yourself to another person if they've been through something similar or if they if they're going through something similar um not really looking at their like we don't know what's going on inside people.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like people can present however they want um and they can present like as fully healed, fully functional when they're still struggling with a lot.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like again the comparison piece is big.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also like slowing down maybe like with so rather than um thinking about like oh I should be doing this I should be doing that it's about being mindful and taking it taking a second to reflect back on you know where I was where I started even like like day to day right like today I could do the dishes today I could take the dog for a walk and yesterday I couldn't right like that is healing.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah being more aware of those moments but small things yeah yeah and with the comparison thing like yeah exactly what you said we don't know what someone is going through but everyone has their own kind of journey um or path to it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if somebody feels like you know you feel like that person is fully healed one to your point we actually don't know that's just how they're presenting and two their experience may be completely different than yours.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it you can't it's like you know comparing apples to oranges you you just can't um yeah yeah I also think that it's important to remember that healing is not like linear right so like we go you know we go on this journey I mean it's like recovery right recovery is not linear like some days are great some days are not and then maybe you're you you're healed in this one specific area for time and then something happens and then you're like oh wait a second there's still something bothering me about this and then you know you you move forward with some more healing or some more introspection some more curiosity about about where you're at yeah so yeah I think like also giving yourself lots of grace about the journey is really important.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh for sure and one thing that you mentioned um before was also like pausing I have so many clients that are like okay I'm ready for my healing journey I'm gonna read all the stuff how books I'm gonna like do all of the homework that you said and they're so eager and that's wonderful but sometimes I'm putting the brakes I'm like okay yes it's great that you're like all gun ho about this but you also need to take a break from healing like you also just need to take time to just be and notice or you know reflect on where you were before and like all of those things.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's always like you know people want to heal they want to do that and when they're really enthused about it that's wonderful but it also is a lot and it can add more drain and and frustration and comparison and it can end up kind of backfiring.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm absolutely yeah yeah so as I'm reflecting on my own healing journey you know I've realized that it's taking me like 15 years to get to where I am right and it's like you said it's not healing every day.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know you encounter a situation that you feel triggered by or that's upsetting for you.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: You work through that you manage that you you're curious about why that's happening and then you live your life right and then something else will come forward and then you you're curious about that and you do the same thing.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's like it's a lifelong it can be a lifelong process.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not something that necessarily happens in six months to a year.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: So and I think it's just about you know maintaining curiosity like I I love asking why like why did this happen?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you feel that way?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why why why and I think if we can use that same curiosity for ourselves it can really support us in the healing journey and walking towards healing in whatever capacity we're able to at that time.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah right like I think capacity for healing changes and grows as we as we grow as people um and so I think it's just important to like yeah give yourself some grace when it comes to your healing journey that that it can take a long time and that's okay.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I think you know a lot of and and I can speak to this because this has been my experience with healing is sometimes I do get really frustrated with myself of like you know why am I still crying about this or why is this still so stressful?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it is through that curiosity like you mentioned where you're able to understand well wait this is actually a normal response to the situation that I'm experiencing right now.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now maybe I need to just you know have a good cry and then go back and tackle whatever I need to tackle but it is if you don't have that curiosity if you don't have that ability to kind of pause you can just get stuck in the frustration in the disappointment in like the anger towards yourself for why you're not healed, this healed person.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I really like like the curiosity and and gentle self-compassionate curiosity like you know that that's that's really what's going to have us start noticing some of the patterns that have changed it's gonna allow us to see you know is this a realistic expectation that we have for ourselves and it is actually going to be more helpful.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and to that end like as you were saying healing we can still be activated by things from the past right like we'll still feel activated we'll still feel triggered but it's it's how you deal with that now right like so healing means that you are aware of oh I'm being triggered or I feel activated why is that oh because this is happening how do I want to respond right so healing also looks like having the space to understand a situation and then choose how you want to respond to it knowing that your response will either lead to more healing or kind of keep you where you are and if you want to stay where you are for a while and explore that whatever cool that that's good.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if not then you just you know you move forward.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah that's you know that's a really good way to to kind of put it for sure.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think again like the best takeaway from this episode so far is just that healing happens in in ways that you might not kind of expect or think or give yourself credit for um so yeah it's not linear it's constantly shifting there is no destination um yeah are there any final thoughts for listeners who are maybe in the middle of their healing journey um I think just to like keep moving you know like just I tell my clients a lot like we're not looking for perfection we're looking for one percent one percent that's it right so and often that yeah and often it's just about taking one like putting one step in front of the other and keep walking even if you're not you know experiencing anything in those moments that look like healing trust the process that as you keep moving and keep showing up for yourself and keep getting that one percent you will be healed like you are healing and you will be healed as you continue that journey.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah yeah that's a good way to end this thank you so much Sarah for being here and for sharing your perspective and wisdom um we are gonna have your bio and your booking all in our show notes if folks want a book uh like I said Sarah does offer EMDR you have a little bit of a wait list um I think it's like a month or so but you can always reach out to us um if you want to work with Sarah and kind of start on your own healing journey.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much and thanks everyone for being here um we will see you next week we have a couple episodes left before our season two finale um so make sure you follow us on Outside the therapy room pod and we will see you next time.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Bye thank you for listening to Outside the therapy room this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes and if you reside in Ontario and are interested in working with one of our therapists please visit our website in the show notes if you reside outside of Ontario for Science today finding