Transcript

Beetlejuice · Citizen Frame

0:00
Music.
0:10
What are your qualifications? Ah, well, I attended Chilliard.
0:13
I graduated Harvard Business School. I traveled quite extensively.
0:16
I lived through the Black Plague, and I had a pretty good time during that.
0:19
I've seen The Exorcist about 167 times, and it keeps getting funnier every single time I see it!
0:25
Not to mention the fact that you're talking to a dead guy! Now, what do you think?
0:30
Music.
0:33
We'll be right back.
0:49
Oh, my God.
0:53
Transcription by CastingWords
1:09
nice fucking model hey everybody
1:12
welcome back to another sweet sweet sweet sweet episode of
1:15
citizen frame that's right we're still recording halloween
1:18
month well we're a
1:21
little behind so personal issues and
1:24
when then with going do some traveling for horror
1:27
con and stuff like that things just got a little delayed a little backed up
1:31
so we do apologize for that but some things are out of our control well the
1:36
rate we're going it's still going to be halloween month and a half by the time
1:39
we hit christmas but that actually ties in nicely with tim burton who we're
1:44
going to talk about today,
1:45
Well, we did extend it. We did tell them it was Halloween, month and a half.
1:49
Then it was Halloween, month and three quarters.
1:51
So now it's just Halloween, two months. Yeah. So what we're going to do here
1:55
is we're going to give you both Beetlejuices back to back.
1:57
You're not going to wait a week to hear about Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice.
2:01
So we'll put that out just a day or so after we release Beetlejuice.
2:05
Just play a little catch up.
2:08
And then we've got a little treat. We got Pete Atkins, screenwriter of Hellraiser
2:13
2 and Hellraiser 3. and, of course, the one we'll be talking about, Wismaster.
2:18
So that should be fun, having him on board as we critique his work.
2:23
Should be good fun. Yep. And then we're going to end with Smile 2, like we said.
2:28
And unfortunately, that means we're delaying Silence of the Lambs until January.
2:32
We have no choice because we got Christmas month and Christmas month does do
2:36
well. We've got the titles picked.
2:39
And, yes, Trevor picked another Hallmark one.
2:42
He loves them he loves
2:45
them so we'll be announcing those real real
2:49
soon once we finalize them and then january we're
2:52
going to kick off january with a retrospective
2:55
we're going to go back to what worked with the screams
2:58
and the fight 13s and the nightmare on elm streets so we're going to revisit
3:02
good old chucky so we're going to be january will be chucky month so we're going
3:07
to do one and two together three and four together five and six you know because
3:10
there's plenty of them yeah don't fuck And they're not exactly Shakespeare in
3:15
the Park, so they're not going to be long podcasts.
3:19
Here's a recommendation, just live or during a podcast.
3:23
Why don't we combine The Silence of the Lambs with a Hannibal Lecter,
3:28
respectively, maybe? What do you reckon?
3:31
And do all of the films. Yeah, we could probably do that.
3:35
Wouldn't mind revisiting some of them, including Hannibal Rising,
3:39
which I thought was kind of misunderstood.
3:40
I kind of enjoyed that one. I actually enjoyed that one. I mean,
3:43
it has its issues, but it's essentially a very enjoyable revenge thriller overall.
3:50
Yeah, if you take away who they're talking about out of it, it actually works as a standalone film.
3:56
And then, of course, there's Manhunter, classic.
3:59
Yeah, Michael Mann. Yep.
4:02
All right. So, yeah, so we'll be doing that. And we'll also be getting both twisters out.
4:08
So we're going to be doing a lot of franchises, I think, next year.
4:11
And we got to wrap up Mission Impossible because the new one's coming out.
4:15
They just put out the trailer.
4:16
It is officially announced. It's going to be the final Mission Impossible.
4:19
It looks pretty fucking good. I'm excited.
4:21
So we got, and then we got, I think for Christmas month, just for the hell of
4:27
it, even though it's not Christmas. Wait, it could be Christmassy because there's snow in it.
4:32
So, yes, we probably will get to, actually we will get to Nosferatu.
4:37
Yes. Robert Eggers' new one.
4:40
It comes out 23rd, I think, over here. I heard it's been put back to the New Year's Day.
4:47
No, I think it's still, we'll play it by ear. Yeah. If that comes out during
4:52
Christmas month, we'll get it out for Christmas month. Yeah.
4:55
So, because we'll definitely be the first ones in line to see it.
4:57
And this is the one, as you listen to our podcasts, this is the one that lets
5:02
me, I would go either, all right, I'm on Team Edgar's side, or he can go fuck
5:07
himself. It's Judgment Day for Eagers.
5:10
That's right. It's Judgment Day.
5:13
And you know what they just announced? I know you're not a fan.
5:16
No, wait. I think there was somebody else who's not a fan. The Scary Movies.
5:20
You guys remember the Scary Movies? They're all right.
5:22
No, they're good fun. Well, they got bad. Yeah. But the first couple were pretty funny.
5:27
They are what they are. the original the original team's back
5:29
right the wayans brothers and this and
5:32
and no well this time they're going to be doing they're going to make fun of
5:37
that's right elevated horror good this should be fun actually yeah yeah so i'm
5:43
looking forward to see what the poster is pretty funny it's midsummer right
5:46
it's pretty funny that's a terrible film who holds back for it you know in terms
5:51
of like the writing and stuff,
5:53
Yeah, they're all the whole team's back. Right.
5:57
But it'll be interesting because the genres have changed a bit,
6:01
you know, since they left.
6:03
You know, it was slashers galore they were focusing on and M.
6:07
Night movies, and now it's kind of changed a little bit.
6:10
Slashers are still big, but you have now this, you know, elevator horror slash folk horror.
6:15
So it should be kind of fun, fresh take. Yeah, I mean, they're not exactly masterpieces
6:20
to scurrying movies, but, you know, they are what they are.
6:23
Oh, they're good fun. Yeah. We need a good stupid fun. How many was there at
6:28
the end? About four or five?
6:29
I don't know. What happened was the Wayne brothers did them. Yes.
6:33
And then Pat Proft and the Zucker team took over who did Airplane.
6:38
Yes, that's right. Leslie Mason appeared.
6:41
Yeah, but you think if they were even better, they were terrible.
6:43
Yeah. I think because with the Wayne brothers doing it, it was a little more risky.
6:50
They were a little more ballsy. Well, yes, and also less PC, I would imagine.
6:54
I'm not saying that, you know, the airplane team are PC, but yeah,
6:59
it'll be interesting because it's very much a changed world at the same time
7:03
since the scary movies, you know, were a franchise.
7:07
And, you know, it'll be interesting to see, you know, how sort of edgy they
7:11
are. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah.
7:15
Well, the poster says, it's pretty funny, Scary Movie 7, I think it says.
7:20
And it says, don't worry, we've already jailed the producer of the last one. Of Weinstein.
7:27
Weinstein. Yeah. So hey, you're already poking fun.
7:31
So hopefully they do keep it edgy. If they do, if they at all make it PC,
7:35
there's no point doing the film. Yeah. All right.
7:39
Let's jump into this one. We are going to talk the 1988 Tim Burton classic, Beetlejuice.
7:46
My first job ever was working for General Cinema in Burnsville,
7:53
and two movies were out that year.
7:56
And you know when you go on break in the theater, you go watch a movie.
7:59
That's what you do on your breaks.
8:01
Or your day off, you get free movies. I have never watched it.
8:04
I saw Beetlejuice, and I saw Beetlejuice and Fatal Attraction.
8:11
So many effing times. Yeah. So many, did I just say effing? Yeah.
8:16
I didn't have to say fucking.
8:17
Wow. Wow, Kieran's more politically correct. Wow. That's true. That's the new me. Yeah.
8:23
I'm woke now. You're a prude. Yeah.
8:27
It's all this talk of Mary Whitehouse and all and previous podcasts.
8:31
It's affected you. So it has. Oh my God. It's like a virus.
8:36
Yeah. Kieran effing Woods.
8:41
So, yeah, I fucking love Beetlejuice.
8:44
I bought it for $100 when it came out because all movies back then,
8:48
they came out for full price first. Yes, on video. And then the rental market.
8:52
Yeah, they own. The rental market. And then they went down on price after a
8:56
year they were out or something like that. Yes.
8:57
So I, but I ended up buying it right away from a local video store owner that I knew.
9:03
Absolutely adore this film.
9:06
And, you know, it goes on saying, It's a fucking classic.
9:10
Now, when you watch it again, you know, we always talk about nostalgia,
9:13
especially the eighties. Yes.
9:15
You know, but some of the eighties, those movies for nostalgia purposes still hold up.
9:21
I mean, from Lost Boys to the Goonies to obviously Tim Burton's Beetlejuice
9:27
and probably Tim Burton's, was it Pee Wee Herman?
9:30
Yes. He did Pee Wee's Big Adventure was his first outing. That's right.
9:34
Yeah. He was also an animator as well, I think for 10 years. Yeah.
9:37
Yeah. Yeah, he worked for Disney and he left. Yes. Good on him.
9:40
He wanted to do his own thing. But then he went back.
9:44
Yeah. He did Frank and Weenie, I think, for a short film.
9:47
Yes. That he did. And then he made it a major film, I think, down the road.
9:51
But I think that's where he got Vincent Price, which is his childhood hero,
9:55
was the voice in that. Yeah, for Edward Scissorhounds.
9:59
Then he, yeah, sadly lost him that year too. All right. So we've got writer extraordinaire.
10:06
I really liked his stuff. Michael McDowell, he was known for Tales from the
10:10
Dark Side, Tales from the Crypt, Nightmare Before Christmas,
10:13
Elvis Hitchcock Presents.
10:15
Yeah. The guy knew how to do horror comedy really well. All those old classic anthology series.
10:21
Yeah, exactly. And he sadly died at a young age with AIDS.
10:25
Right. So we didn't get it back for this one, but just wanted to give him a
10:29
little shout. He sorely missed.
10:32
Wait, you didn't get it back for the second one, sorry. Yes,
10:35
yes. I know what you mean. Yeah.
10:37
The first thing I love about this film, I'll tell you right now,
10:40
is I was introduced to him after he just left Oingo Boingo.
10:45
And this is, I think it's sophomore outing. I think he did Pee-Wee's Big Adventure as well.
10:51
But Danny Elfman's score at Beetlejuice is awesome. I love it.
10:57
Can't touch it. All right, here we go.
11:01
We got Alec Baldwin as Adam, Gina Davis as Barbara,
11:07
Michael Keaton, the man himself, Beetlejuice, Winona Wright as Lydia,
11:11
the lovely and so talented and underrated Catherine O'Hara as Delia,
11:15
Jeffrey Jones, you stupid son of a bitch, I loved your career,
11:18
what the fuck were you thinking?
11:20
Plays Charles, and another man who passed away, couldn't be in the new one,
11:25
Glenn Sank steals the show on this one, he plays Otto, Yes, he's great in this, actually.
11:30
Yeah, and the great late Sylvia Sidney plays Juno.
11:33
So, yeah, he was given $1 million for the effects.
11:38
So he decided, I'm just going to go B-movie effects.
11:42
Cheesy, you know, like the old Castle stuff or even Ed Wood.
11:49
Yeah, models, stop motion animation, all that sort of thing.
11:53
Yeah, claymation, some really clever makeup effects in this.
11:57
Especially in the waiting room, death's waiting room.
12:00
Yes. And the funny thing is, when you watch this film again.
12:04
And obviously more of an adult, and you can see it, and we'll talk about definitely
12:08
the second one, this movie's pretty dark.
12:11
It is dark? Yeah. This is a film about death. If you peel the layers,
12:17
you laugh at first, but then if you kind of think about it, it's a pretty creepy little film.
12:23
Yeah, it is a film about death, and also the title character Beetlejuice,
12:30
his sort of infatuation with whatever age Lydia is, is a bit weird,
12:36
although the sort of they follow it up in the second one by, you know,
12:41
basically having them still infatuated with her, which is creepy on another
12:45
level, but yeah, at least she's not, let's just say there's an age gap. At least she's loyal.
12:51
Yeah. I love the opening. We get the same opening in Beetlejuice,
12:55
where we focus on this small little US town.
12:59
Small town Americana. Small town Americana, exactly.
13:03
Something Lynch would have. And camera pans in, you're seeing it looks like
13:08
a model almost, but it isn't. but then it transitions into the model that Barbara and Adam are making.
13:14
It's just a really nice way of bringing us to the introduction of Barbara and Adam.
13:21
I actually love the bulk of Burton's film openings.
13:25
You know, even with Ed Wood, it's done in the whole sort of,
13:28
you know, classic B-movies, 1950s, you know, sort of opening,
13:31
you know, and with, you know, the old school sort of special effects and stuff
13:35
and, you know, those old tricks and stuff.
13:36
The graveyard. It's a graveyard I think he used in Ed Wood. yes yep
13:40
it is yeah i like right away you with
13:44
barbara and adam they're they're just likable dorks it's
13:48
pretty much what they are i actually find them kind of annoying but but i like
13:52
you like genie davis but they're kind of silly and a bit annoying but yeah i
13:58
mean not nothing too bad i have to admit you know but they are kind of silly
14:02
well we'll get to it in the middle and Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice,
14:06
is what they did there, they do here, where, yeah,
14:12
GD Davis and Alec Baldwin play the parts they're given, but they're not the movie.
14:17
The scene-stealers are Otho, Catherine O'Hara, Geoffrey Jones,
14:22
and especially, well, the whole supporting cast.
14:26
It's Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton, of course. Obviously. Yeah,
14:29
I don't have to say it. But I would say even that the real breakout star here is obviously Winona.
14:35
Yeah it's it's it's yeah because well she was
14:38
at the time kind of playing the same parts i think
14:41
she was wasn't she like this in heathers she's like
14:44
i haven't seen heathers in years like since it was first released on video but
14:48
she does play a high school student who isn't one of the the bitches you know
14:54
the heathers the gang of bitches she's more like the i believe she's like the
14:57
girlfriend of christian slater
14:59
yeah i would have to watch it again she's kind of a recluse reserved.
15:03
Yes. And I think she plays the same thing in Mermaids. So I think she's kind
15:08
of played that role, which is fine.
15:10
And then she's obviously catapulted. She's done well for herself.
15:14
Yeah, she's very good at it. And again, going to that dark tone,
15:17
when you watch this again, even though you're laughing and having a great time,
15:21
this girl wants to commit suicide.
15:23
I know that. Yeah, I mean, like, she's not just a goth. She's actually suicidal at one point.
15:28
Yeah, because she tells you, I want to go with you. Yes. I want to be with you.
15:32
She wants to be with Barbara and Adam. Yep.
15:36
So when they're killed and the car falls into the river,
15:41
and they go back to the house and the whole scene where they're trying to figure
15:46
out where they are and what's going on,
15:49
and we were introduced to Jane, who's obviously the daughter's reintroduced
15:53
in the sequel, where she's been trying to get them to sell the house to a New York couple.
15:59
And then when they come back to the house, we find out the house has been sold to this New York couple.
16:05
So there's a time difference there i can't remember what they say how long they've
16:09
been out but this is yeah the one thing the film does do right is that it quickly data dumps real fast,
16:17
and boom they're they understand what they understand
16:19
they've accepted what has happened and so there's not this long drawn out subplot
16:25
of denial and or something like that no they kind of oh this makes sense well
16:30
it's not it's more of a comedy than a drama so you have to keep the jokes and
16:34
the stuff coming quick and fast, which it does, to be fair, to its credit.
16:38
Yeah, they do that with the handbook for the recently deceased.
16:41
That pretty much is your expose.
16:44
100%, yeah. That is the data dump. So it's all handled.
16:50
We're not getting too overly dramatic or morbid with that side of things,
16:55
which works for what is basically a comedy because we still have to move quickly
16:59
on to all the other stuff with the Dietzes and then, of course, Beetlejuice.
17:02
Yeah I liked Charles and Lydia and Delia I like these characters I like Arthur
17:12
a lot and I do like Arthur because he's a lovable jerk,
17:17
Yeah, and he's almost like there's this campiness about him that wouldn't be
17:21
out of place perhaps maybe in a carry-on film, you know?
17:25
It's, you know, in fact, a lot of this is quite camp, the film overall.
17:28
He is, he's more like their mascot, but he doesn't realize he's the mascot.
17:36
And I think that's kind of what he was trying to play with it on.
17:39
And I just do like him because I think what really does work is his comedic
17:45
timing with Catherine O'Hara, because he has most of his scenes with her is perfect,
17:50
especially when they're going around the house, you know, talking about paint
17:53
colors and what the interior, the one they changed the interior design of,
17:57
which works quite well.
18:00
And these scenes can be kind of boring because, you know, fucking DIY shit, but it's a good laugh.
18:07
And they take it so seriously. I would say yeah, I would say that they both
18:12
are saying Jeffrey Jones here, who is he's usually very good in these types
18:17
of roles, you know, like Ed Rooney and First Brewer's Day Off and stuff.
18:20
But I mean, he's still pretty good here and he still does the job.
18:25
But Catherine O'Hara especially sort of would steal the show from him.
18:29
Yeah, I do. But I like how he plays it. He plays it. He's the straight man, pretty much.
18:34
Yeah, yeah. I was just going to say that. He's more the straight guy.
18:37
Yeah, he's kind of the nerd.
18:39
And he, like she's going to tear apart the whole house and he can't at least stick up for himself.
18:44
She says okay but don't touch this room okay and
18:47
you know he gets the one room so but i
18:51
think that changes a bit because we talk about
18:54
arcs a lot he does have one especially after the dinner scene when they get
18:57
taken over and they start singing you know dale yeah you can kind of see him
19:03
coming to more of sticking up for himself now the well he's now but then he's
19:09
sort of you know he's more on board with the sort of business of trying to,
19:14
sell the house as a ghost house type thing.
19:16
Not to sell it, but you charge people to come and see the ghosts.
19:19
Yeah, but it's his sales pitch that's the funniest.
19:23
When he has Dick Cavett over at all for dinner and he tries to tell him a story
19:26
of the hauntings, the way he tells it is quite funny.
19:32
Although he's always been very good at the sort of comedy delivery,
19:35
like comedy acting. Yeah.
19:38
Now, the Beetlejuice really gets me with the
19:41
netherworld scenes they're the funnest i think without this
19:44
without well the beetlejuice scenes are the best but
19:47
the waiting room is is very funny you meet bob who i love bob you know the shrunken
19:53
head yeah he gets a bigger part the new one then you've got the man eaten by
19:58
a shark you got a man who's choked on a rib or something like that you got the magician's half yes,
20:06
Well, here, there's another suicide joke where, you know, where the receptionist
20:10
says, you know, if I hadn't known what it was like here, I wouldn't have had
20:13
my little accident. And you see, she's cut her wrists.
20:16
And they're playing humor in that. But when you look at it now,
20:19
you're like, wow, it is kind of dark. Well, it's dark humor.
20:22
And the guy. Obviously. The guy who's all burnt to a crisp. And he turns to
20:27
them and goes, do you want a cigarette?
20:28
And he's like, no, I don't smoke. Yeah, I'm trying to cut down myself.
20:32
Yeah. Although the best character in the afterlife for me, anyway, is their case worker.
20:39
Well, that's Juno. And Juno is, that's played by Silver City.
20:43
And then she's very good in it. And there's even a scene kind of playing on
20:48
the suicide scene, but she was murdered because.
20:51
In real life, what's she? No, the character. Or in the film?
20:54
Oh, sorry. Because when she's smoking, her throat has been cut.
20:59
And the smoke comes out of her hair. Well, there's all sorts.
21:01
This is very dark for what is essentially a family film.
21:04
Exactly. and that's my point but you know it's funny you see this and it's written
21:09
by Michael McDowell and obviously Tim Burton so you've got there's a lot of
21:15
dark tones that are in also A Nightmare Before Christmas,
21:19
as well as Edward Scissorhands oh totally I mean I would say all of Burton's
21:25
stuff early stuff anyway they play a lot like grim fairy tales yeah yes and
21:30
I think that's what they're kind of going with,
21:33
oh my god but then we get Beetlejuice.
21:36
He's only in the film for like, what, 16 minutes or something like that?
21:40
Something similar to Hannibal Lecter in The Silence of the Lambs,
21:43
but when he is on screen, yes, he totally steals every scene he's in.
21:47
Michael Keaton. Oh my God. I love him so much.
21:51
And when they call, they call, they ask Beetlejuice to first help,
21:55
and that whole scene, he's just a pervert on, he's pervert on Barbara.
22:00
Barbara. It's just, the way he tries his sales pitch, Oh, he's a sleazy bastard.
22:06
Oh, he is. Yeah. And I've seen The Exorcist so many, like a hundred odd times
22:10
or whatever he says, and it gets funnier every time. Yeah. He goes, oh, am I qualified?
22:15
I lived through the Black Plague. I had a pretty good time with that.
22:18
Yeah. And then when they leave, he starts yelling at them, what are you doing to me here?
22:24
And he kicks the gravestone and he goes, nice fucking model. And he grabs his crotch.
22:31
Yeah, that's right. Now, it's the best line of the film. Nice fucking model.
22:35
Now, it does come across, like the character does come across like a Saturday
22:40
Night Live character that maybe sort of at that time, you know,
22:43
back in the 80s when you would have had, you know,
22:45
the Belushi's and Dan Aykroyd and stuff and, you know, maybe our Chevy Chase
22:49
and stuff that maybe Michael Keaton had been working on, but I don't,
22:52
you know, obviously he wasn't, you know, it was just for this film.
22:55
But it does, you can sort of see those sort of Saturday Night Live sort of vibes there. from the Yetis.
23:02
Yeah, like Eddie Murphy stuff, like Mr. Robinson and all that.
23:06
Oh, quite itchy, yeah. You had now that whole scene, there's controversy in that no fucking model.
23:13
Back then, you can only say the F word once in a film because of this.
23:19
And so they changed some of the rules on that because that nice fucking model is really emphasized.
23:26
I mean, it's not like hidden. He says it loud. so they can't say it twice and
23:31
this is the big controversy,
23:33
because they call it out in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice and they kind of nod their
23:39
hat to that scene and we'll talk about it when we get to it so you guys remember
23:42
when you listen to this one we'll reference this again in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice,
23:47
but yeah so they pretty much say we can do this ourselves we don't need Beetlejuice
23:52
we can scare them let's watch them scatter and they do that whole the Dale thing
23:57
which is a good laugh good fun.
23:59
And they thought we got them they're going to leave they're going to leave the
24:03
house but they end up selling it where people love it yeah they want to be basically
24:09
to sell it as a ghost house charge people to come and see it that type of thing.
24:14
So it backfires basically on them and then when they tried to get the ghost
24:19
to come down, Lydia says they don't want to come down they're really upset,
24:25
they're depressed it's kind of funny because the agent, which is played by Dick Cavett,
24:30
he goes to Catherine O'Hara. He tells her that.
24:39
You've always been a flake. You know, remember this? Your sculptures are terrible.
24:43
Brilliant line. Yeah, but here's the great thing about that line.
24:48
You've always been a flake, blah, blah, blah, is because he's not wrong,
24:53
because her taste is terrible, but she's likable.
24:57
So you kind of felt bringing her down a peg.
25:00
You thought you'd be rooting for it, but you kind of didn't.
25:03
You kind of felt sorry for her. You feel a bit sorry for her.
25:06
Yes, because she is likable, despite being quite, because it's almost like there's
25:10
that tragedy about her, you know what I mean?
25:13
She's like the tortured sort of artist but she thinks she's much greater than she is, you know?
25:19
Yeah. And you are, in a way, sort of rooting for her, you know?
25:23
And I think that line though, kind of humbled her a bit because she kind of
25:27
changes well, that changes back in the sequel but even after that line he says
25:32
that terrible thing to her, Charles says okay, drive safely.
25:36
They're leaving. Fucking idiot.
25:40
I do like the reintroduction of Beetlejuice with the stairway when they're going
25:45
up the stairs, but in the stairs, the banner becomes the snake.
25:49
Yeah, he turns into the big snake thing. Yeah.
25:52
And obviously they brought Beetlejuice and Juno calls them back to say,
25:56
you can't use Beetlejuice.
25:59
You can't. He's a menace. He's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:03
Yeah, he's basically, he's like a, he's basically an asshole. You know what I mean?
26:09
And he's pretty brutal. He chucks Charles around pretty good.
26:13
Chucks it down the stairs. I'm surprised he wasn't killed.
26:17
But we'll get to that in the sequel. Shark attack.
26:22
So this is the scene you were talking about. Lydia is writing a suicide note in this scene.
26:26
Yep. And it's...
26:29
It's a sad note. And it's almost something, and it's not played for laughs, this scene.
26:37
This scene is dark. No, it's quite emotional. Yeah, it's not a comedy scene. Yeah.
26:43
It's sort of get the audience emotionally, you know, so you actually feel sorry for this kid.
26:50
And I would say as well, well played, very well played by Winona Ryder.
26:55
I know it's like the stereotypical, It's more become the stereotypical goth
27:00
girl thing, but she's very good.
27:05
The climax, again, going back to kind of what we just talked about with Delia
27:11
being assaulted by her agent.
27:14
You have a scene, because Barbara and Adam are okay, but I don't care about
27:17
them. I care about the other characters at this point. No, yeah, exactly.
27:20
But when they were coming back as Arthur was reading the book, from the book.
27:26
That's right. He's like basically doing a seance type thing.
27:29
Yeah, but he doesn't know what he's doing. He's a clueless twat.
27:32
I love when Beetlejuice puts him in a laser suit.
27:37
He starts screaming. No, but the spell is aging him faster.
27:44
Yes, right, with Barbara and Adam. Yeah. And when Oda writes,
27:48
you're killing him. He goes, I don't know how to stop this.
27:52
And Beetlejuice is the only one who knows how. and obviously Lydia's going to
27:56
ask to marry him. He'll remove it.
28:00
I would say as well, there's like a round with the whole Adam and Barbara,
28:06
you know, back in their wedding outfits and stuff and even the wedding with
28:10
you know, Beetlejuice and Lydia.
28:13
You know, there seems to be a you know, there's references to the old Universal
28:16
maybe even Bride of Frankenstein perhaps. There's a lot of callbacks to Universal
28:20
stuff and all the classics.
28:23
Well yeah i mean you can see that with a
28:25
lot of his work especially having love working with claymation and
28:29
stop motion like ray how wait yeah how harry
28:32
watson whatever his name was sorry butchered that ray harry yeah also mario
28:36
bava there's a big sort of mario bava there's sort of definitely ed wood things
28:40
going on here definitely ed wood where the effects are cheesy and cheap like
28:44
an ed wood film but they're done professionally if that makes any sense No, I know what you mean.
28:50
They're like a tip of the hat. But yes, there's, as I say, Mario Bava,
28:53
Universal, you know, all those old sort of 50s and 60s classics.
28:58
But before that, even 30s and 40s. You even had the old William Castle,
29:02
the Tingler and the Smell.
29:03
Absolutely, yes. Those matinees you used to go to back when they had in the
29:06
50s, 60s where a Smell would come into the theater during a Smell scene or a
29:12
spider would fall in front of the screen when the spiders are attacking,
29:15
you know, stuff like that.
29:16
Or being zapped on the chairs, you know with the Tangler and stuff yeah but
29:20
yeah I mean that's obviously all the stuff that Burton grew up with and had a huge influence on him.
29:26
Yeah, I mean, all of his films always have that.
29:30
Well, besides maybe, well, no, even Batman had that.
29:36
We talked about it with the cop, the dirty cop.
29:39
He was playing that old, gritty, crime noir detective. Yeah.
29:44
You know? And so. Oh, no, and Batman Returns is particularly gothic, you know?
29:50
So, yeah, certainly Burton in the 80s and 90s anyway.
29:53
He was always very much referenced and give a tip of the hat to all of those
29:58
classics that we've just mentioned but at the same time this is you know showing
30:03
his true talent he still made the films his own, they weren't fan films do you know what I mean?
30:09
That's one thing you'll well I think he did in the 2000s a lot of his work's
30:14
kind of crap Yeah that's why it was particular about the 80s and 90s I mean
30:20
his last good film to me well besides we'll talk about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice,
30:24
Sleepy Hollow, Sleepy Hollow.
30:26
I maybe I take that back. Sweeney Todd. I kind of enjoyed, but that dark shadows, Dumbo.
30:34
Whenever he went to Disney. Yeah. The wheels fell off. Yeah, exactly.
30:38
I like big fish. That's an underrated little film.
30:41
I haven't seen big fish, but I know that's one with Ewan McGregor.
30:44
Yeah. Elbert Finney, Danny DeVito, really good cast.
30:48
Yeah, Beetlejuice is such, I can hear the score in my head.
30:53
I just love everything about it. Pretty much what we just talked about,
30:58
this homage to all the films he grew up with, that's the reason I like it.
31:02
And then you implement an 80s dynamic into it with Michael Keaton's gross-out humor.
31:08
And a great cast, a supporting cast as well, not just Keaton.
31:13
You have O'Hara, Winona, all the ones we've discussed, basically.
31:17
I would say that Tom Baldwin and Geena Davis are actually the weakest.
31:22
Although they're all right. I don't think they're the weakest.
31:24
I think they're the weakest of the characters.
31:26
But I don't like to say weakest because I don't think they're bad.
31:29
Yeah, I would agree with that. They're just written that way.
31:32
Yes, I would agree with that, actually. They are a bit bland.
31:35
But maybe that's the way they're supposed to be.
31:38
But certainly the show was stolen from them by the other characters,
31:42
the Deaches, basically, and Beetlejuice, obviously.
31:44
Yeah. I would say I'm going to play Devil's Avocado here a bit.
31:48
And I would say, while I very much respect and like and appreciate Beetlejuice,
31:54
I was never that big into it, even as a kid.
31:57
I've always preferred Burton's other films at the time, especially, you know, the Batmans.
32:04
We mentioned Sleepy Hollow, Ed Wood in particular.
32:08
So, yeah, I like Beetlejuice, but I wouldn't be like a super fan, let's just say.
32:13
Nah, Beetlejuice is classic. It's not Tim Burton's. I think Albert Scissorhands is better, actually.
32:18
No, I don't like it, because we talked about that. I didn't like the ending.
32:22
Well, we're sort of splitting hers, but yeah. I was never a massive Beetlejuice
32:26
fan, but I do like it, and it certainly has a lot to like about it.
32:31
It's definitely my top five Tim Burton films.
32:36
But it is what it is. Still great. I love Michael Keaton. When he shows up,
32:43
he's like that fucking ass, the drunk asshole that shows up at a party that
32:48
he didn't want to be there.
32:50
Exactly. But you sort of love him, like the lovable asshole. Jeez. Yeah.
32:54
There you go, guys. Beetlejuice. We're going to jump right into Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice.
32:58
Does it hold up? Does it have the same humor? Is it PC in this wonderful generation
33:02
we live in? We'll check it out.
33:05
And that's what's next. Guys, thanks for giving us a listen to this one.
33:09
It's Sinister Frame, underscore podcast on Instagram. if you want to reach out,
33:12
and of course, Facebook.
33:15
That's all I've got. We're going to wrap this one up.
33:18
Music.