Latest / Left of the Projector / O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)

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O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000) · Left of the Projector

• 0:16
  Track 1: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,
• 0:18
  Track 1: back again with another film discussion from the West.
• 0:20
  Track 1: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,
• 0:23
  Track 1: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector pod.
• 0:27
  Track 1: If you like the dress and style, we've got shirts and at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com.
• 0:32
  Track 1: Show everyone you got the best taste to rate.
• 0:35
  Track 1: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll get notified
• 0:38
  Track 1: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.
• 0:44
  Track 1: This week on Left to the Objective, we are going to be discussing a film based
• 0:47
  Track 1: on Homer's poem The Odyssey, but
• 0:49
  Track 1: not that little-known small-jump budget production by Christopher Nolan.
• 0:52
  Track 1: Instead, we'll be talking about Oh Brother Roar Out There, the Coen Brothers
• 0:57
  Track 1: film from 2000. Film stars George Clooney, John Turturro, Tim Blake,
• 1:00
  Track 1: Nelson, Charles Durning, Michael Badalucco, John Goodman, Holly Hunter,
• 1:04
  Track 1: Daniel Von Bergen, and many others.
• 1:07
  Track 1: With us to discuss is a friend to the show mike of mdx pods welcome back to
• 1:11
  Track 1: the show and of course evan and ward good.
• 1:14
  Track 3: To be back thanks guys.
• 1:17
  Track 1: Thank you for joining us.
• 1:18
  Track 2: Hello, everyone.
• 1:19
  Track 1: I did, full disclosure, completely forget that Mike would be joining us.
• 1:22
  Track 1: And it was a surprise when I opened the screen and there was his face.
• 1:25
  Track 1: And I was like, hey, that's cool. We got a guest.
• 1:29
  Track 2: I told you.
• 1:30
  Track 1: Listen, I've had a lot of shit going on lately, okay? Listen,
• 1:34
  Track 1: Warren and I have both had really busy shit going on, right?
• 1:38
  Track 4: Yeah, I've been traveling and I'm about to travel again, all right?
• 1:42
  Track 2: I, yeah. You don't have to apologize to me.
• 1:46
  Track 3: No, no. Evan, you need to apologize to all of us.
• 1:49
  Track 1: Okay.
• 1:50
  Track 4: Yeah.
• 1:50
  Track 1: I expect a hand-delivered note.
• 1:52
  Track 4: Evan's making us feel bad.
• 1:54
  Track 3: I don't feel welcome as a guest.
• 1:57
  Track 2: Oh, man.
• 1:58
  Track 3: You're breaking Zeus's law.
• 2:01
  Track 2: Breaking Zeus's law.
• 2:02
  Track 1: All right. So why are we here to talk about O Brother War out there?
• 2:07
  Track 1: Is there a reason that we're here to talk about this movie in particular? What brought this on?
• 2:12
  Track 2: Well, let me...
• 2:15
  Track 1: Says the person who literally watched it and then said, we need to do an episode.
• 2:19
  Track 1: But ignore that. Why are we here?
• 2:22
  Track 2: Did you see the Nolan's version?
• 2:25
  Track 3: I did. I've seen it twice. I went opening week and then I saw it with my wife a few days ago.
• 2:29
  Track 2: Yeah. So part of this that came up with, obviously that's the discourse in a
• 2:34
  Track 2: lot of parts of the internet right now.
• 2:36
  Track 2: We actually do have a small, more like a, we call it like box office drop episode
• 2:40
  Track 2: that'll be coming before you listen to this one You can hear us talk about Nolan's
• 2:46
  Track 2: version, and now you can hear us talk about the,
• 2:49
  Track 2: gold standard edition version of Homer's The Odyssey.
• 2:53
  Track 2: And I thought that was why we should talk about it, I guess,
• 2:56
  Track 2: because maybe people don't even realize this movie is a telling of The Odyssey,
• 3:01
  Track 2: or people haven't seen it in a while. I mean, it's been 26 years.
• 3:05
  Track 2: For some people, that's like a really long time, and so I don't know. Does everyone here?
• 3:10
  Track 1: Not everybody rewatches this on an annual basis? Yeah.
• 3:13
  Track 3: I probably watch this every year, every two years. Although like owning this
• 3:18
  Track 3: movie on Blu-ray was kind of like an odyssey adventure. So like I had this movie
• 3:23
  Track 3: a long time ago and somebody borrowed it and never gave it back.
• 3:26
  Track 3: Then I ordered it on Blu-ray and somebody stole it off my doorstep.
• 3:31
  Track 3: And so I ordered it again right when I moved and forgot to update the address. So it happened again.
• 3:35
  Track 1: Wow.
• 3:36
  Track 3: And so like I've actually bought this movie physically like five times.
• 3:41
  Track 2: Nice. so no one can write a story about your dvd coming home next time yeah
• 3:44
  Track 2: there we go i was actually telling them both and i'm shocked that there isn't
• 3:48
  Track 2: a 4k version of this yet like a remastered version i i don't know.
• 3:54
  Track 1: I don't think i think remastering this in 4k would actually be a disservice
• 3:59
  Track 1: to it i think that would be a mistake.
• 4:00
  Track 3: I agree like and.
• 4:02
  Track 2: Then somebody.
• 4:02
  Track 4: And they're gonna fuck up the color grading too the color grading in this is incredible.
• 4:07
  Track 1: In general i think remastering and upgrading to 4K is bullshit on its face.
• 4:13
  Track 1: Like in general, I think it's completely unnecessary and a total waste of time, energy, and money.
• 4:19
  Track 1: But this movie in particular, I think, would be detrimental to the actual product, the art.
• 4:27
  Track 3: Oh, I agree.
• 4:28
  Track 2: Yeah, I can accept that. I mean, the only reason I would say the reason for
• 4:33
  Track 2: me to have a new version of it is just because it's been a while since they
• 4:37
  Track 2: released it, and they probably have other footage or things they could put on
• 4:40
  Track 2: there that would just be cool to watch.
• 4:41
  Track 3: Have they done any remasters of the Coen Brothers movies? Really?
• 4:45
  Track 2: The Big Lebowski.
• 4:46
  Track 3: The Big Lebowski.
• 4:47
  Track 2: And Old Country for Old Men, No Country for Old Men, they did.
• 4:51
  Track 2: There's a criteria in relation to that. I think those are one of the only two.
• 4:53
  Track 1: Didn't Fargo get over this?
• 4:56
  Track 2: No, I don't think so. Their first movie did. I'm blanking on a name at the moment.
• 5:01
  Track 4: I don't know. While you think, I'm going to go off. Please.
• 5:04
  Track 4: But this movie doesn't need a remaster. More additional bonus content?
• 5:09
  Track 4: Absolutely. But do you really need to see the depiction of Depression-era America
• 5:15
  Track 4: in the South in 4K? is that what's going to do it for you?
• 5:21
  Track 3: Come on right no i it doesn't i don't think it's necessary and like when you
• 5:25
  Track 3: look at things that have been done like uh like the true lies 4k remake
• 5:30
  Track 3: like everybody's skin got weirdly smooth and everything on it and that's like
• 5:33
  Track 3: james cameron who's willing to put the money and time into it,
• 5:36
  Track 3: so like upressing this is just not not worth it to me.
• 5:40
  Track 4: Yes it's not worth it and it's not necessary like nolan's adaptation.
• 5:45
  Track 3: All right so we're getting to it all right yeah.
• 5:49
  Track 4: I figured that was the best.
• 5:50
  Track 3: Transition we're gonna get right seamless.
• 5:52
  Track 2: My brother we don't seamless like we don't we don't since only half of us have
• 5:58
  Track 2: seen his version we don't need to
• 5:59
  Track 2: like you know belabor the point of what people think of that one you can,
• 6:04
  Track 2: we'll probably have another episode in the future where all of us do that one
• 6:07
  Track 2: but this movie is basically perfect in every way.
• 6:11
  Track 1: I don't have to like i know this is going to sound like presumptuous my argument
• 6:16
  Track 1: that the christopher nolan adaptation is inferior to this version and,
• 6:23
  Track 1: Just in general, see, I don't think that this is the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey.
• 6:28
  Track 1: What I think this is, is this is the greatest adaptation of the Odyssey,
• 6:32
  Track 1: for a Western American audience by a American and English director because of
• 6:40
  Track 1: the nature of the Odyssey and what the Odyssey is, which is a,
• 6:45
  Track 1: mythological story centered on cultural tropes.
• 6:49
  Track 1: And just telling the story of the Odyssey as it was written by Homer to a Western
• 6:54
  Track 1: audience of people, you're telling a story of a 3,000-year-old dead culture
• 7:00
  Track 1: with cultural touchstones you do not know.
• 7:03
  Track 1: Oh Brother, Why Out There is the story of the Odyssey as depicted and framed
• 7:08
  Track 1: by American cultural touchstones.
• 7:11
  Track 3: That's why- By people who never read the original version of it in any way.
• 7:16
  Track 3: They'd only seen the Armand Asante version before making this. and didn't originally.
• 7:21
  Track 1: Intend to make this it it started out as just a few references and then they
• 7:26
  Track 1: actually backtracked and then went further to develop it as an adaptation the
• 7:32
  Track 1: odyssey because it wasn't intended to do.
• 7:33
  Track 3: That that's why tim blake nelson thought he got the script because that's what
• 7:37
  Track 3: his degree is in is in like the classics and he's neighbors with i don't remember
• 7:41
  Track 3: which one of the coen brothers but he's neighbors with one of them
• 7:43
  Track 3: and they he thought they sent them the script to like analyze it as like an
• 7:47
  Track 3: expert on the odyssey and they're like no we want you in this movie,
• 7:50
  Track 3: so like that's pretty interesting he's also the only person who sings in this
• 7:54
  Track 3: movie that's all he got a grammy for it he's the only actor yeah it's funny
• 7:58
  Track 3: too because he thought about.
• 7:59
  Track 4: He knew the coen brothers like pretty well before this movie and uh he thought
• 8:04
  Track 4: about trying to leverage his friendship but he was like no i'm not gonna do
• 8:08
  Track 4: that i'm not gonna try to call in a favor to make it happen and then they.
• 8:10
  Track 3: Offered it to him drop it to him.
• 8:12
  Track 4: Yeah he did,
• 8:16
  Track 4: he auditioned to be in Big Lebowski, but he didn't make the cut.
• 8:20
  Track 2: Have you heard the other story that Clooney also took the role without having,
• 8:24
  Track 2: read the script? He's like, yeah, I'll do it.
• 8:27
  Track 2: and they sent him the script and his i think it was his cousin or something
• 8:32
  Track 2: took his uncle all of the his uncle yes he took like all the curse words out
• 8:36
  Track 2: of it and he didn't realize they were in the movie until like they were starting to,
• 8:41
  Track 2: do this like shoot the the film
• 8:43
  Track 2: itself which i think is great and he is they're all incredible in this.
• 8:47
  Track 3: You know what george clinton specifically it's interesting so like obviously
• 8:50
  Track 3: we've all mentioned how many times we've watched this film on letterbox So when
• 8:54
  Track 3: I went to like log that I watched it for the pod, I, I had it as a five star ranking before.
• 9:00
  Track 3: And like, I actually dipped it to a four and a half and then put it back to
• 9:03
  Track 3: a five, back to four and a half, five only because of George Clooney,
• 9:06
  Track 3: because like, yes, everybody is a little over the top in this, you know, it's a,
• 9:11
  Track 3: you know, a larger than life film, but he kind of, there's the first 10 minutes
• 9:14
  Track 3: of the movie, he's almost a little weird.
• 9:16
  Track 3: And like, it kind of took me out of the movie. It was like, no way,
• 9:18
  Track 3: this is just the way the movie is. And then I went back into it.
• 9:21
  Track 3: But George Clooney actually almost made me take off half a star.
• 9:25
  Track 4: So, like, I think it was him that joked with, like, the other two main actors
• 9:29
  Track 4: afterwards where they're like, they need to fucking pull our SAG cards for this fucking movie.
• 9:34
  Track 4: Because, like, they fully acknowledged, like, how over the top they were,
• 9:38
  Track 4: like, how much they were overacting the entirety of the movie.
• 9:41
  Track 4: And it got to a point, like, in interviews, you can see him talking about,
• 9:44
  Track 4: like, yeah, we were just, like, amping each other up, seeing who could, like.
• 9:48
  Track 3: Interact more later.
• 9:49
  Track 1: I was just to say, he...
• 9:53
  Track 1: more than i feel like more.
• 9:55
  Track 4: Than cluny.
• 9:55
  Track 1: Really he they turned him into hornetote like he i thought she was a hornetote.
• 10:03
  Track 4: And even tuturo leading up into that when he shoves his fucking entire hand
• 10:07
  Track 4: down his fucking throat and then does a fucking waddle down to the fucking thing
• 10:12
  Track 4: because he decided his character pete has hemorrhoids and he can't run that fast,
• 10:19
  Track 4: like that's not a plot point anywhere but he decided no he gets hemorrhage so
• 10:24
  Track 4: this is how he has to walk that's not shocking that's not shocking that's not shocking.
• 10:27
  Track 1: Decided that uh fantastic.
• 10:30
  Track 2: Yeah i mean like he's i don't remember at this point how many films that each
• 10:34
  Track 2: had been in but especially clooney and even more so john tuturo is they know
• 10:39
  Track 2: what the cohen brothers want and it's funny you mentioned the overacting thing
• 10:43
  Track 2: because i can't imagine they would overact more than they were being told by
• 10:47
  Track 2: joel nathan cohen like i would think that that's what they wanted because they
• 10:50
  Track 2: don't you know they don't like you to
• 10:52
  Track 2: to change the script you know ad-libbing like isn't a thing for them so i i
• 10:56
  Track 2: have to think they wanted it to be overacted,
• 11:00
  Track 2: right so it looks you would think.
• 11:02
  Track 4: Because how the coen brothers are like very script dominant where it's like.
• 11:06
  Track 2: No no.
• 11:06
  Track 4: It needs to be perfect as per the script but like this film it might just be
• 11:10
  Track 4: i got to look into like other coen brothers film but this one might just have
• 11:13
  Track 4: some like special uniqueness to it because like
• 11:16
  Track 4: they didn't follow choreography either in this movie like george clooney did
• 11:20
  Track 4: a lot of his own choreography john turturro they'd like made up a lot of their
• 11:24
  Track 4: own dancing and shit that they brought in choreographers for and they're like no no we got it
• 11:30
  Track 4: and then like just went and they're like fuck it we'll go with it this is good.
• 11:33
  Track 3: I mean that does.
• 11:33
  Track 4: Make cohen brothers allowed that so like the overacting like this might just
• 11:37
  Track 4: be special for cohen brothers.
• 11:39
  Track 3: Going off book for the dancing makes sense when like these guys weren't actually
• 11:42
  Track 3: musicians they like left their way into recording that album so i mean it it tracks yeah that.
• 11:47
  Track 2: Yeah it almost makes more sense if any if that's being ad-libbed for them because
• 11:53
  Track 2: they're yeah like you said they're faking it anyway.
• 11:55
  Track 3: Hot damn it's the soggy bottom boys.
• 11:59
  Track 2: And for people who also don't know the films the the the out the uh the soundtrack
• 12:05
  Track 2: won the the uh what can i think of the word ramy,
• 12:09
  Track 2: the grammy for best album so i mean every.
• 12:12
  Track 4: Aspect of it was tim tim makes the most money because of because he actually
• 12:16
  Track 4: sang yeah so he gets royalties from the album he does like george.
• 12:20
  Track 3: Clooney trained for like four months and they're still like no.
• 12:22
  Track 1: Not good enough but tim blake nelson.
• 12:24
  Track 3: Is in is actually in multiple tracks talking about the soundtrack did you guys
• 12:28
  Track 3: know the opening song like that
• 12:30
  Track 3: chain gang was actually recorded in like 1929 and they tracked it down and they
• 12:35
  Track 3: went and found like the family of the last surviving guy on that chain gang
• 12:39
  Track 3: and got paid them like 25 grand worth of royalties for it.
• 12:42
  Track 1: I didn't know.
• 12:42
  Track 4: That that's where.
• 12:43
  Track 2: They where they easily could have just like.
• 12:45
  Track 1: Stolen like some.
• 12:46
  Track 2: Like lesser you know oh absolutely the gotta.
• 12:49
  Track 1: Respect them for that the the music in this like i really,
• 12:54
  Track 1: i really love i like folk music in general like i listen to folk music like
• 12:59
  Track 1: modern folk music but i also really love like class like old folk music and
• 13:03
  Track 1: big rock candy mountain is like a huge thing of like that is such,
• 13:07
  Track 1: that time period is so often ignored and not given the proper like accolades
• 13:13
  Track 1: or credit the people were just robbed blind,
• 13:15
  Track 1: every like the music and like the the way that we just get a glimpse it's funny
• 13:21
  Track 1: because we get a glimpse into how predatory the recording industry was at the
• 13:26
  Track 1: time just like a such a minor little glimpse of it,
• 13:30
  Track 1: and yet it really does tie in so relevantly to,
• 13:34
  Track 1: the reality of the situation at the time and the fact that the music in the
• 13:38
  Track 1: movie is so dominant and important.
• 13:41
  Track 1: And it is pulled from so many classic folk songs that were written by people
• 13:46
  Track 1: who were not at the time given their accolades, not at the time given credit
• 13:50
  Track 1: or monetary compensation for what they did.
• 13:53
  Track 1: And Big Rock Candy Mountain was known for many years and it took a long time
• 13:57
  Track 1: for people to figure out who it was that
• 14:00
  Track 1: deserve the credit for it.
• 14:01
  Track 3: It's it's so interesting because that's like how music worked is like you know
• 14:04
  Track 3: a song would blow up regionally and someone would be like oh that's playing
• 14:07
  Track 3: really well in tennessee i'm just going to re-record it in texas and then the
• 14:10
  Track 3: texas person gets famous for it
• 14:11
  Track 3: but i do appreciate because it is very very predatory but like you know obviously
• 14:15
  Track 3: all of these guys are conmen
• 14:16
  Track 3: and liars and are willing to like steal but they like the guy who's running
• 14:19
  Track 3: the studio is a blind man and so they lie about what both their race and then
• 14:24
  Track 3: the fact that there's another person's at the end they're like oh so and so
• 14:26
  Track 3: can't read so you can only find an act two more Oh.
• 14:29
  Track 4: Two more. Was it two more people?
• 14:31
  Track 1: He deserved it. He was also very racist. He deserved to be lied to and conned.
• 14:35
  Track 3: Oh, for sure. Yeah. And so, yeah, they get the extra 100 bucks because it was
• 14:39
  Track 3: $10 each. So they got an extra 20 bucks, which back then is a lot of money.
• 14:42
  Track 2: Yeah. I mean, you could tell that they probably were going to,
• 14:45
  Track 2: you know, they fight. You see, I think there's like a headline in the paper
• 14:47
  Track 2: at one point when it's like they throw the paper into the fire and you can see
• 14:51
  Track 2: the headline. One is about the dam and the other is about the soggy bottom boys.
• 14:55
  Track 2: They're easily going to be making people money.
• 14:58
  Track 2: like we don't know who they are so we're not going to try and figure out who
• 15:00
  Track 2: they are and we'll just make money off of their their name anyway right and they made a banger.
• 15:06
  Track 4: I mean they couldn't keep the records on the shelves no.
• 15:09
  Track 2: In the movie or real life i'm.
• 15:11
  Track 3: A dapper dan man at the end when they're in this little cabin and there was
• 15:16
  Track 3: like a hundred jars of dapper dan pomade into that little podunk cabin that
• 15:20
  Track 3: was modeled off of um the evil dead cabin.
• 15:24
  Track 2: It does look like the evil dead no it was.
• 15:25
  Track 3: Supposed to be because the cohen brothers were um editors on the evil dead movie
• 15:29
  Track 3: because they're like best friends with um sam ramey and bruce campbell so like
• 15:32
  Track 3: they actually made it to be identical to the cabin in that movie.
• 15:36
  Track 2: You didn't realize that okay that's amazing yeah i was telling i was like messaging
• 15:40
  Track 2: to them a little bit while i was re-watching it again i guess it was yesterday
• 15:43
  Track 2: and part of maybe the overacting and this is i guess more of like the script
• 15:47
  Track 2: the way that the coen brothers just write scripts is they'll have occasional times where just,
• 15:51
  Track 2: words or phrases are repeated and you like kind of find it annoying but then
• 15:55
  Track 2: it becomes funny and charming with like he must have says tight spot what at
• 16:00
  Track 2: least six times you know when the first time the,
• 16:03
  Track 2: the police are there the sheriff's there to get them i might just not.
• 16:07
  Track 3: Like george clooney it might just be that because like the same thing like i
• 16:11
  Track 3: love burn after reading it is great that's probably my favorite coen brothers
• 16:14
  Track 3: movie and i do not like him in that movie either Yeah.
• 16:19
  Track 4: I like him there, too.
• 16:19
  Track 1: I think you might be, yeah. Because...
• 16:22
  Track 1: Yeah. I love George Clooney.
• 16:25
  Track 4: That's fair. You're at least aware of it.
• 16:26
  Track 3: Yeah, I think the other issues, the difference, and now granted,
• 16:29
  Track 3: what I do, you know, so his name is Ulysses Everett, and he mainly goes by Everett,
• 16:33
  Track 3: and Ulysses is Odysseus in Romans, the Roman version. So that name plays into it.
• 16:39
  Track 3: You know, he is nowhere near as smart as Odysseus is. And now granted,
• 16:42
  Track 3: like the modern version with Matt Damon, you don't necessarily think he's the
• 16:44
  Track 3: smartest guy in the world.
• 16:45
  Track 3: like he is in the other versions but it may be that overacting comes into play
• 16:49
  Track 3: a little bit more when he's speaking you know with this fancy five dollar words
• 16:53
  Track 3: i don't know but it just came off as less so that was like he's the only one
• 16:57
  Track 3: who pulled the coen brother direction was that.
• 17:00
  Track 4: Like because he was trying to like act at first just be like oh i'll just regular
• 17:05
  Track 4: act and then they like pulled him aside and they're like you don't understand this character like,
• 17:09
  Track 4: he you're always the smartest guy in the room no matter what now act and he
• 17:14
  Track 4: was like oh i got it it's like even in the scene with john goodman he's like
• 17:18
  Track 4: i don't get it he's in there all like confident until he gets smashed in the.
• 17:22
  Track 3: Fucking face like see that's that's one thing i do like about this one he's the smartest
• 17:27
  Track 3: is that he he never is like you know at least in the odyssey whatever version
• 17:31
  Track 3: you're looking at the odysseus character you know obviously his pride and his
• 17:35
  Track 3: hubris is the downfall of everything and what causes all these issues in the
• 17:38
  Track 3: modern version it puts it all on the the men versus him,
• 17:42
  Track 3: which i don't agree with but in every other version it's both a combination
• 17:45
  Track 3: of his pride gets him into shit and then his brains gets him out of it like,
• 17:49
  Track 3: odysseus normally gets them out of the binds eventually none of they never get
• 17:54
  Track 3: out of any of the binds themselves like there's always some happy little accident
• 17:57
  Track 3: or just public opinion sways
• 18:00
  Track 3: them and gets them out of the bind so that's that's kind of another interesting
• 18:03
  Track 3: change to the odyssey see.
• 18:06
  Track 2: I'm.
• 18:06
  Track 1: Sorry evan you go.
• 18:07
  Track 2: I was just gonna only just say is that i like that in this it seems like he,
• 18:12
  Track 2: acts like the smartest person but isn't but for me it's the like mentioning
• 18:16
  Track 2: the dapper dan and his hair and everything like he always like you know has
• 18:20
  Track 2: to he's always combing his hair and has a hat then has a hairnet it's like,
• 18:24
  Track 2: his his his like his vanity of everything despite everything that's happening
• 18:28
  Track 2: to them like that's the thing he has to care about maybe it's cluny.
• 18:32
  Track 4: In every coen brothers but maybe that's just.
• 18:33
  Track 2: Something he.
• 18:34
  Track 3: Can control as a person who's literally out like he cannot control the outcome
• 18:38
  Track 3: and he's desperately trying if that's the one thing he can control.
• 18:41
  Track 2: That's true.
• 18:42
  Track 1: See i like i think you are you know correct in that way he is not he's not as
• 18:47
  Track 1: smart as he thinks he is he's a con man and,
• 18:50
  Track 1: to go back to like my whole like thesis on why this is a superior version of
• 18:55
  Track 1: western honesty interpretation is because,
• 18:58
  Track 1: that is the american way that is the American hero. It's the smooth talker.
• 19:04
  Track 1: It's the guy that can talk a big game.
• 19:08
  Track 1: It is literally how we ended up with fucking Donald Trump as president,
• 19:13
  Track 1: a culture that glorifies the smooth talker over actual substance.
• 19:19
  Track 1: Like I love, I love George Clooney's character. And personally, I love a good con man.
• 19:25
  Track 1: I love a good con man that like takes, that takes advantage of people who deserve it.
• 19:30
  Track 1: But that when people are unwitting and they are, you know, easily duped.
• 19:38
  Track 1: There's definitely black hat con people out there.
• 19:42
  Track 1: And the reality, you know, it's like this, the culture of the Grecian hero and
• 19:47
  Track 1: like being like, you know, that like, yeah, that was Odysseus.
• 19:50
  Track 1: But like, this is not, this is not the Greek Odyssey. This is the American Odyssey.
• 19:54
  Track 1: And what is the American hero? The American hero is, we have different archetypes.
• 19:59
  Track 1: So one of them, a major archetype is the fast talking con man.
• 20:04
  Track 1: How can you, and they, he, in the end, like, I disagree that it's like happy
• 20:09
  Track 1: accidents, get them out of things instead of like what he did,
• 20:13
  Track 1: because it's just that what he did,
• 20:18
  Track 1: it's never, his actions never get them out of the immediate situation.
• 20:23
  Track 1: His actions from a prior action, get them out of a subsequent situation.
• 20:28
  Track 1: he lays the path he lays the groundwork that subsequently manipulates in america,
• 20:36
  Track 1: a the american you know the american way of like you know mass communication
• 20:40
  Track 1: the growing mass communication that is how he lays the grid and that like it all rolls downhill.
• 20:45
  Track 3: See i just i disagree because there's two characters and we haven't even brought
• 20:49
  Track 3: up this character yet but tommy,
• 20:52
  Track 3: Everything happens realistically because Tommy convinces them to go to that
• 20:56
  Track 3: recording studio. That's where he's going.
• 20:58
  Track 3: And so if it wasn't for Tommy, they wouldn't have recorded that song.
• 21:02
  Track 3: If it wasn't for Tommy, they wouldn't have ended up at the Klan rally and figured
• 21:06
  Track 3: out who Homer was, who Homer truly was.
• 21:10
  Track 4: Yeah, no, I'd absolutely agree, but I wouldn't say Tommy convinced him.
• 21:13
  Track 4: It was definitely Everett, Ulysses, Odysseus, who goes and is like,
• 21:19
  Track 4: oh, I can make some money on that.
• 21:21
  Track 4: he's paying people we're all gonna hop in we'll go with you bud we'll go all
• 21:26
  Track 4: the way because they had no plan at that point so it wasn't really much convincing
• 21:29
  Track 4: but now I absolutely agree.
• 21:31
  Track 2: Yeah. And for people, just for like the side note, is that the Tommy,
• 21:35
  Track 2: who is a blues musician, who when they first introduced or introduced him as
• 21:40
  Track 2: he's hitchhiking, is he tells them he had sold his soul to the devil to become a guitar player.
• 21:45
  Track 2: I feel like he's supposed to be what did the is the music they play for him
• 21:48
  Track 2: and Robert Johnson? Or is that just supposed to be what they're he's supposed to be?
• 21:52
  Track 3: So tommy johnson was actually based off a real musician like there actually
• 21:55
  Track 3: was a musician from the south in that era and then um did you guys,
• 22:00
  Track 3: i never noticed it till this time but when he describes the the devil because
• 22:04
  Track 3: you have you know george colini's character it's like very condescending he's
• 22:07
  Track 3: like oh there's very you know several manners of imps and demons no he's just
• 22:11
  Track 3: acting in his character smartest guy in the room right what does he look.
• 22:14
  Track 4: Like oh i got the.
• 22:14
  Track 3: Answer but don't worry the guy it's like tom is like yeah yeah tommy's just
• 22:18
  Track 3: like oh he explains him he's like oh he's got these and the sunglasses and the
• 22:22
  Track 3: dog and like it's perfectly describing the sheriff that's chasing him around
• 22:25
  Track 3: who i didn't realize this time was also commandant spangler from malcolm the middle yes.
• 22:31
  Track 2: Well hey i think he also says he's like no he's a he says he's as white as you.
• 22:34
  Track 3: Folks yeah which i always love.
• 22:38
  Track 4: That yeah it wasn't until like a few years ago where i caught it where i was
• 22:41
  Track 4: like oh he's the fucking sheriff but like yeah no i always love this why is you folks.
• 22:46
  Track 3: The other thing.
• 22:46
  Track 2: I was thinking about you were talking about with the,
• 22:51
  Track 2: period of how they use this for the Odyssey is the thing that it also linked
• 22:54
  Track 2: really well is, which I think is,
• 22:57
  Track 2: I've paid more attention to it this time than I normally do,
• 22:59
  Track 2: is the governor's race where you have Homer, who's like the reform,
• 23:03
  Track 2: in quotes, candidate, who we find out later is Homer and he's the head of the Ku Klux Klan.
• 23:08
  Track 2: And then you have the existing Mississippi governor who is sort of like...
• 23:14
  Track 3: Papio Daniels.
• 23:15
  Track 2: Papio Daniels, who's sort of like the...
• 23:17
  Track 2: What do you call it? Like just the standard, like this is just the normal guy.
• 23:21
  Track 2: You're just going to get the same stuff that's destroyed the economy already.
• 23:24
  Track 2: You know, I mean, it is the Great Depression. It's not his fault per se.
• 23:26
  Track 3: One of the only things that I actually wrote down in terms of a quote was when
• 23:30
  Track 3: Pappy's son says something like, oh, why don't we like embrace some reforms?
• 23:34
  Track 3: And he's like, I can't reform. I'm the incumbent, which is so indicative of
• 23:39
  Track 3: like the establishment Democrats in modern society is just like,
• 23:43
  Track 3: well, we can't actually offer change because if we offer change,
• 23:46
  Track 3: that proves that we could have done these things.
• 23:48
  Track 3: So we have to fight progress for the sake of progress sake, which is funny because
• 23:51
  Track 3: like, ultimately the message of this movie is progress for progress sake actually
• 23:55
  Track 3: fucks over the little people.
• 23:57
  Track 3: Because even if that treasure was real, at the end of the day,
• 24:00
  Track 3: that river was going to get flooded by the TVA or that valley was going to get
• 24:03
  Track 3: flooded by the TVA. So it was like, and that was progress for progress sake.
• 24:07
  Track 3: So it's, it's just like, it's so relevant to today still. It's so wild.
• 24:11
  Track 2: Yeah, that entire governor's race was super interesting. And then the ironic
• 24:15
  Track 2: part is that he ends up taking basically the homers sort of constituency.
• 24:23
  Track 2: because he then sort of just like, oh yeah, I like this music.
• 24:28
  Track 2: I'm with it. I'm hip. I like his little dance.
• 24:30
  Track 2: Does his dance on stage.
• 24:32
  Track 3: But one of the things that's really interesting about that scene,
• 24:34
  Track 3: and I never really noticed it until this time around, was like,
• 24:38
  Track 3: so nobody has an issue with Homer.
• 24:40
  Track 3: He's legitimately looking like he's going to win the race.
• 24:44
  Track 3: And then everybody turns on him, not because it's revealed that he's the grandmaster
• 24:48
  Track 3: of that chapter of the Ku Klux clan
• 24:50
  Track 3: not because of his politics or anything but it's specifically because he ended
• 24:55
  Track 3: the party and being like these guys are not white and everything and everyone's like i just want to party
• 25:00
  Track 3: everything and like and it's it's very similar like with like donald trump right
• 25:03
  Track 3: now like nobody turned against trump because he's a racist or anything like that it's,
• 25:07
  Track 3: that's not the issue is people literally just want to be entertained and then
• 25:10
  Track 3: it kind of shows that like ultimately voting doesn't mean anything you're either
• 25:13
  Track 3: going to get this incumbent guy who will glob on to,
• 25:16
  Track 3: a meme essentially actually yeah you know pokemon go go go to the polls or whatever the hell it was or,
• 25:23
  Track 3: or you get the uh or you get the you know the grifter right-wing populist who's
• 25:29
  Track 3: ultimately he's going to run on populism but he's not actually going to do anything.
• 25:33
  Track 2: Yeah it's that's true yeah they don't care that he's the grandmaster they just care he's uh.
• 25:38
  Track 3: A party ruined their party pooper.
• 25:40
  Track 1: Yeah the more things don't change the more they stay the same.
• 25:43
  Track 2: Yeah i think you could you could Probably, yeah, you say that a lot, Bill.
• 25:47
  Track 1: Because it's true. Because it's true.
• 25:52
  Track 2: I wasn't in the derogatory. Yeah.
• 25:58
  Track 2: there's so many i was there's there's been articles that have been written and
• 26:03
  Track 2: you could go on youtube too and watch a bunch of videos about all the different characters from,
• 26:08
  Track 2: the odyssey and how they are matched to these but some of the some of them were
• 26:12
  Track 2: like very loosely added and like you said i think you said ward that some of
• 26:16
  Track 2: them they went back and changed some of it,
• 26:18
  Track 2: so i wonder if like did john goodman always have an eyepatch or they're like
• 26:22
  Track 2: we're just gonna throw an eyepatch on him so he's now the uh the um.
• 26:26
  Track 3: Well i mean now that you guys bring up the changes it does make a lot of sense
• 26:29
  Track 3: because there are you know i already mentioned tommy was based off a real musician
• 26:32
  Track 3: named tommy johnson but then the um babyface uh george or whatever his name
• 26:36
  Track 3: is that gangster was a real gangster yeah and then you had pappy,
• 26:41
  Track 3: uh papio daniels uh was also a real politician but he was based in arkansas
• 26:45
  Track 3: not mississippi so i'm curious yeah i mean it makes a ton of sense that they
• 26:49
  Track 3: were probably trying to make a more period piece and then leaned into the odyssey.
• 26:54
  Track 1: Again it's the notion that like in can you come up with a better 1920s depression
• 27:00
  Track 1: name than for a politician and papio.
• 27:02
  Track 3: Daniels right.
• 27:04
  Track 4: Like reality gave that to him.
• 27:06
  Track 3: Like homer you gotta use it but.
• 27:08
  Track 1: Again you know it returns to the fact that like these are these are aspects
• 27:12
  Track 1: of american mythology and if we are to you know we can there are definitely,
• 27:18
  Track 1: like periods of history that have influenced american culture and like that
• 27:23
  Track 1: are like touchstones of american mythology,
• 27:26
  Track 1: and the depression is definitely you know depression world like those are through
• 27:30
  Track 1: lines like those are major.
• 27:31
  Track 3: Cultural.
• 27:33
  Track 1: Like points that have established major you know movements and cultural like
• 27:40
  Track 1: moments that have carried through and like, you know,
• 27:42
  Track 1: this is, if you were going to base a movie, if you were going to create an interpretation
• 27:47
  Track 1: of the Odyssey based on American history, like this is a prime time to do it.
• 27:53
  Track 3: Right. Because you have the railroads, you have some modern conveniences to
• 27:57
  Track 3: explain how they're able to get around and everything where it's like there
• 27:59
  Track 3: isn't like nowadays like, oh, you can just hop on a plane and get from where
• 28:03
  Track 3: you're going to Mississippi.
• 28:04
  Track 3: Like this is probably like the most recent era in history that you could actually tell this tale.
• 28:10
  Track 1: Would have to to tell that tale today you would have to,
• 28:14
  Track 1: either go real metaphorical or you'd have to really just start like
• 28:20
  Track 1: manufacturing means of uh restricting you know planes trains and automobiles
• 28:27
  Track 1: kind of yeah you have to really you know i mean cell phones that in itself just.
• 28:32
  Track 4: Even the use of the in music in the film is like mirrors how like music is treated
• 28:39
  Track 4: in america where you have like the chain gang singing a what is a protest song
• 28:45
  Track 4: which is transformed into,
• 28:47
  Track 4: and commodified into entertainment for the the prison overseers and us as the
• 28:52
  Track 4: audience watching at home and
• 28:54
  Track 4: the transition of the music you have them recording the first album the
• 28:58
  Track 4: the money to getting taken from records getting sold they don't even know that
• 29:02
  Track 4: they're famous yet right until they show up at that fundraiser yeah
• 29:06
  Track 4: But even then, like the chain gang, it's, it's all, it's all black prisoners,
• 29:10
  Track 4: except for our three main characters. And then the next music scene is a baptismal
• 29:15
  Track 4: with all white people, just joyous, enjoying themselves. It's entertainment for them.
• 29:20
  Track 3: Right.
• 29:21
  Track 4: When it was protests for the, uh, the prisoners and the black people,
• 29:25
  Track 4: just like folk music was like a meant, like originated as like a workers movement
• 29:30
  Track 4: and got commodified and stripped away from that just for the entertainment of the masses.
• 29:35
  Track 3: Totally and like if you if you look at like a bird's eye view of this movie
• 29:39
  Track 3: you could actually almost look at the movie in that same thought because the
• 29:42
  Track 3: whole movie is about these three.
• 29:44
  Track 3: You know for better i mean yes they are technically criminals but they don't
• 29:47
  Track 3: have any means of improving their station in life and the whole
• 29:50
  Track 3: like this movie is like kind of that fake mythology of the american dream of
• 29:54
  Track 3: like if you just work hard enough or if you have enough money like even if that
• 29:57
  Track 3: treasure was real and they were able to get that one million dollars worth of
• 30:00
  Track 3: payroll you know whole thing is, well, if we just had enough money,
• 30:04
  Track 3: we could power through and be successful.
• 30:06
  Track 3: And at the end of the movie, ultimately, like they get a pardon that's not worth
• 30:10
  Track 3: the paper that it's printed on because they don't have jobs.
• 30:13
  Track 3: They don't have means of money.
• 30:14
  Track 3: they realistically they're still criminals and they're going to go back to it
• 30:18
  Track 3: and so you can pull it back and they're like even for us like all of us like
• 30:21
  Track 3: i've paid for this movie multiple times and ultimately it's a movie about like
• 30:25
  Track 3: how pointless capitalism is and at the end of the day like these
• 30:29
  Track 3: heroes whether you know there are the heroes of the story they're no better
• 30:33
  Track 3: off than they were at the beginning of the movie other than they're just not
• 30:36
  Track 3: technically in prison anymore but they're still in prison of the system.
• 30:41
  Track 3: And there's no resolution. There's no happy ending.
• 30:45
  Track 3: In fact, like Everett is like getting nagged at from Penny because he got the
• 30:50
  Track 3: wrong ring. So like he's still not even sure he's going to get his wife back.
• 30:53
  Track 3: And it's being sold as entertainment to us. So it's the same thing as like the
• 30:56
  Track 3: chain gang's music is sold for entertainment to people who are trapped in capitalism,
• 31:00
  Track 3: who are still no better off realistically than these chain gang people are metaphorically.
• 31:05
  Track 3: They're still chained to a system.
• 31:06
  Track 2: One of my favorite scenes that's kind of related to this is when they're all
• 31:09
  Track 2: sitting around saying what they'll do with their portion of the treasure.
• 31:14
  Track 2: Pete says his dream is to become a maitre d', where he would get free meals
• 31:18
  Track 2: and would still serve people.
• 31:20
  Track 1: He's going to own the restaurant and be the maitre d'.
• 31:23
  Track 2: Yes. And Del Mar basically says he wants to buy back his family farm.
• 31:28
  Track 2: And he says, quote, ain't, uh, ain't no man if you don't got land.
• 31:33
  Track 2: Like these are people who have nothing. They have no way to improve anything.
• 31:37
  Track 2: And then what does George Clooney say what he would do?
• 31:41
  Track 1: I don't think so. I don't remember. I think they got cut off before what he says.
• 31:46
  Track 2: I thought so too.
• 31:47
  Track 1: Pete's to me is like, like Pete is the most like pointed, like just like the
• 31:54
  Track 1: most like straightforward, but Delmar's really speaks to like the nature.
• 31:58
  Track 1: It's like, this isn't even like this guy isn't like, you know,
• 32:03
  Track 1: you know, there's always the notion.
• 32:04
  Track 1: It's like, Oh, you know, Americans people, you know, like if they're given things, they'll just be lazy.
• 32:08
  Track 1: And it's like this man, has not lived an easy life clear like nobody nobody
• 32:14
  Track 1: this time you know none of these people you know they've not lived an easy life
• 32:18
  Track 1: and this man's like i want to own a restaurant,
• 32:20
  Track 1: and then work there like people don't want to be lazy people don't want to do
• 32:27
  Track 1: nothing and like that really i think it says a lot this guy's like
• 32:31
  Track 1: it's like yeah like the fanciest thing he could think The most impressive thing he could think of is,
• 32:37
  Track 1: owning a restaurant to provide and serve people food.
• 32:42
  Track 1: Like that is such a touching sentiment when you really think about it.
• 32:47
  Track 3: Yeah, that's awesome. I never even realized I didn't pick up on that at all,
• 32:51
  Track 3: but that's actually pretty deep.
• 32:54
  Track 2: I also like in the script, it specifically spells the word Mater D in a funny
• 33:00
  Track 2: way. It says M-A-I-D-E-R-D-E-E, Mater D.
• 33:04
  Track 1: Yeah, he says it very, he says that D real hard.
• 33:07
  Track 2: And then he also says that he wants them to call him, they want him to say,
• 33:11
  Track 2: yes sir, no sir, Jiffy Pete. In a Jiffy Pete.
• 33:14
  Track 3: That's so funny.
• 33:16
  Track 2: You're right, though, when the police arrive and they're not able,
• 33:19
  Track 2: and Everett's not able to give his thing. But he's like combing his hair,
• 33:23
  Track 2: obviously, at the exact same time.
• 33:24
  Track 3: Top you kind of mentioned like nobody's living a good life in this era but realistically
• 33:28
  Track 3: the politicians are so like pappy
• 33:30
  Track 3: o daniel's like interesting so they kind of like lumped him in with like an
• 33:33
  Track 3: fdr type obviously he's like nowhere near what fdr was doing in terms of politics
• 33:38
  Track 3: but he had his little like fireside radio chats,
• 33:41
  Track 3: but one of the things i didn't notice until this time was like he the advertisements
• 33:45
  Track 3: were companies he owned it's like the flour mill that he owned was the advertisement
• 33:49
  Track 3: they bring it up so it's like you know every step of the way this politician,
• 33:54
  Track 3: is using like his station in life his his platform to enrich himself with like
• 34:00
  Track 3: you know he's he's pretending he's communicating with the people and being a
• 34:03
  Track 3: man of the people but the reality is it's the only way for the people to hear him,
• 34:07
  Track 3: is by this radio and it's a fact that like they have to buy his flower and they
• 34:11
  Track 3: get the advertisements for it so it's just like this man is enriching himself off his uh constituents.
• 34:17
  Track 4: Yeah i love the performative politics especially like you got Stoker who's like got a little person.
• 34:22
  Track 3: Saying I'm.
• 34:23
  Track 4: Fighting for the little man like come on.
• 34:26
  Track 3: What if we got an even smaller guy with a smaller bro do you mean the film's.
• 34:31
  Track 1: Not quiet so what you're.
• 34:33
  Track 3: Saying is that.
• 34:34
  Track 1: Pat he has his own version of truth social,
• 34:38
  Track 1: Thank you for your attention to this matter. Buy Pappy's flower.
• 34:42
  Track 1: Thank you for your attention to this matter.
• 34:44
  Track 3: That's Trump coin.
• 34:44
  Track 1: Yeah. Literally, they made this movie 26 years ago. 26 years ago.
• 34:53
  Track 1: For those of you who are young, when we were young, but not old enough to know
• 34:58
  Track 1: shit about the world, in 2000, nobody thought Trump was going to be president.
• 35:02
  Track 1: And this movie could not have more on-the-nose depicted a man that has used
• 35:08
  Track 1: the political – like, so – like, yes, graft-to-corruption is – like,
• 35:13
  Track 1: I'm not denying that by any stretch of the imagination.
• 35:15
  Track 1: But the blatant product placement in the way – and, like, control over it has
• 35:21
  Track 1: gotten to a point that nobody imagined in 2000.
• 35:24
  Track 1: We did not imagine it would be this accelerated in 2000. Right.
• 35:28
  Track 1: The internet has done terrible things.
• 35:32
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 35:32
  Track 2: I like to say this sometimes too. I don't know. Maybe we had this discussion is,
• 35:36
  Track 2: when 20 years ago, people, this is like a way off kind of a tangent,
• 35:40
  Track 2: but people would often like give any celebrity or actor, like you would be shamed
• 35:45
  Track 2: if you did cheesy advertising on, on TV.
• 35:49
  Track 2: Now, every single celebrity you can think of will, will hawk anything.
• 35:53
  Track 2: They will let them hawk on TV.
• 35:55
  Track 3: It's the easiest way to make money. like it's because when you do a commercial
• 35:58
  Track 3: you get a lot of these actors will get like a million dollars for a commercial
• 36:01
  Track 3: and they're working one day and then they get paid in perpetuity like i have you know i'm obviously
• 36:07
  Track 3: based in los angeles and around a lot of actors but it's like most actors like
• 36:10
  Track 3: i have a friend or it's more of my wife's friend who used to book commercials
• 36:14
  Track 3: and like his agents like you shouldn't be doing commercials anymore because
• 36:17
  Track 3: you're getting a lot of guest spots but the guest spots pay way less but the
• 36:20
  Track 3: prestige is being on television and now Now you've got it, like you said,
• 36:24
  Track 3: like now the celebrities are taking
• 36:26
  Track 3: all of those roles that used to be able to go to character actors or whatever.
• 36:30
  Track 3: Like Keanu Reeves started doing like a Kellogg's commercial kind of thing.
• 36:33
  Track 3: Like it used to be the way to break into stuff. And now it's all those jobs are taken.
• 36:37
  Track 1: Now who's the friend?
• 36:38
  Track 2: It's completely unrelated to this film.
• 36:41
  Track 1: I want to know who the friend is.
• 36:43
  Track 2: Oh.
• 36:44
  Track 3: He's not, he's not, you know, he's a, he's very, he's successful.
• 36:47
  Track 3: Like he's, he's doing well enough as an actor. He can afford a home. Yeah.
• 36:52
  Track 1: I want to know if I like his work.
• 36:53
  Track 3: Like he's very comfortable I want to know.
• 36:54
  Track 1: If I like his.
• 36:55
  Track 3: Work I mean you want to know yeah I mean I'll send you his who he is he's one
• 36:59
  Track 3: of those people he just let us know after yeah I'll tell you who he is you won't
• 37:03
  Track 3: know who he is like he's just a friend of my wife.
• 37:06
  Track 1: I watch a lot of.
• 37:07
  Track 3: Stuff yeah between.
• 37:09
  Track 4: The three of us we watch a lot of stuff okay there's a.
• 37:13
  Track 3: Chance that isn't good.
• 37:14
  Track 4: Chance stop being such horny yeah.
• 37:16
  Track 3: If there's ever a chance it's this group I'm just not trying to put somebody's
• 37:19
  Track 3: business out there oh yeah no no no for sure tell us after them I don't know.
• 37:24
  Track 2: Yeah, stop being such horny toads about this.
• 37:25
  Track 3: Yeah. I thought you was a horny toad.
• 37:28
  Track 1: His delivery is amazing. I love him.
• 37:30
  Track 3: That's my favorite line in this movie, though.
• 37:33
  Track 4: Dude, his gasp when the frog gets squished by John Goodman.
• 37:37
  Track 3: Oh, so good.
• 37:38
  Track 1: Heartbreaking.
• 37:39
  Track 3: Heartbreaking. Totally.
• 37:40
  Track 4: It's perfect. It's incredible.
• 37:42
  Track 3: Don't you know these give you warts? Oh.
• 37:45
  Track 1: So.
• 37:46
  Track 2: I also like that they get, oh, they get baptized, and then right after they're
• 37:50
  Track 2: in the car with baby face and they're like oh like you know what does the guy
• 37:55
  Track 2: was a line he said yeah he asked.
• 37:57
  Track 4: Him he's like uh i don't suppose you're bad men and it's like well we were up until.
• 38:01
  Track 2: Yesterday.
• 38:02
  Track 3: Now we're saved well i like when um similar things so it's like they get baptized
• 38:06
  Track 3: and then immediately they meet tommy and tommy was like i just sold my soul
• 38:09
  Track 3: to the devil and like um ever it says something along the lines of like oh these
• 38:13
  Track 3: two just got baptized i'm the only one who's unaffiliated Yeah.
• 38:17
  Track 1: I love unopening.
• 38:19
  Track 2: I just like the idea that they're trying to be saved, like, you know,
• 38:22
  Track 2: that they've now been baptized and saved. And the funniest part is that we didn't
• 38:25
  Track 2: even mention that Everett's in prison, which we find out later,
• 38:30
  Track 2: is because he was impersonating a lawyer, right?
• 38:33
  Track 1: Yeah. I just want to, okay, to go back to them being convicts,
• 38:37
  Track 1: okay? We know what he went to prison for. Are we, do we?
• 38:42
  Track 2: We never find out the others.
• 38:43
  Track 3: One of the guys was, yeah, one of them was going to be out in two weeks.
• 38:47
  Track 1: I think it might have been two days.
• 38:51
  Track 1: It's very short. But to go back to the, oh, they're convicts.
• 38:54
  Track 1: It's like, yeah, they were convicts in American Depression prison.
• 38:58
  Track 1: They put people in prison for fucking everything.
• 39:03
  Track 4: One of them held over a Piggly Wiggly and lied about it. But don't worry.
• 39:07
  Track 4: Pastor said those are both forgiven.
• 39:11
  Track 3: They.
• 39:11
  Track 1: Put people in prison for fucking everything like i'm not gonna judge these men
• 39:17
  Track 1: for being in prison i wouldn't judge me i don't judge people for being in prison
• 39:21
  Track 1: now you think i was gonna i'm not gonna judge right fucking depression well.
• 39:26
  Track 3: Another interesting thing about his prison time so like those kids um with that
• 39:31
  Track 3: he has with penny are so young there's one that's like a baby like maybe a year
• 39:37
  Track 3: year and a half baby in arms and right like,
• 39:40
  Track 3: maybe even younger than that and so it's like you know if you're comparing this
• 39:43
  Track 3: to the odyssey where you know penelope waited 20 years before finally realized
• 39:48
  Track 3: okay i gotta get a suitor but it doesn't matter what version it's roughly 20 years,
• 39:53
  Track 3: she waited like a year for this guy to get out of prison before getting married endure.
• 39:57
  Track 4: A great depression yeah.
• 39:58
  Track 3: That's true that's it's interesting i'm not
• 40:02
  Track 3: i'm not saying she's not doing the right thing like he's not what were her material
• 40:06
  Track 3: conditions back then compared to the great depression of the american south
• 40:10
  Track 3: so it's like you understand it i'm not knocking her for making that decision he's.
• 40:14
  Track 4: Bonafide right he's a suitor.
• 40:17
  Track 3: Yeah when he comes back and then he's like whenever it's like she's like well
• 40:20
  Track 3: what are you gonna do to like help these kids he's like oh i'm i know a guy
• 40:23
  Track 3: who will forge a dentist license kind of thing so so funny in that moment she still like
• 40:29
  Track 3: has every right to be like no i'm gonna go marry this guy who's like can provide
• 40:33
  Track 3: i'm not knocking her for making that choice i just turn around.
• 40:36
  Track 4: Like oh yeah you're gonna another doctor thing you're gonna impersonate another
• 40:40
  Track 4: person oh yeah let me turn back he does lose his job.
• 40:43
  Track 1: Basically immediately after he shows up,
• 40:46
  Track 1: Right. So, you know, yeah.
• 40:51
  Track 2: That's true. Ugh.
• 40:53
  Track 3: So the, the finale though, like, you know, ultimately the river gets flooded.
• 40:58
  Track 3: I didn't realize that was like a real thing. Like I knew that was a real thing.
• 41:01
  Track 3: Like we built reservoirs and stuff during that time, but like the TVA in this
• 41:06
  Track 3: era in Mississippi, like displaced like 14,000 people for these projects.
• 41:12
  Track 4: Which is crazy all over the country.
• 41:14
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 41:15
  Track 2: This wasn't quite at this moment because they hadn't started doing the part
• 41:22
  Track 2: of the New Deal, which is all the construction of highways later on.
• 41:25
  Track 2: But they'd end up doing the same thing with just destroying black neighborhoods
• 41:29
  Track 2: in major cities to build highways too. This didn't matter. Commerce had to continue.
• 41:36
  Track 3: Dodger Stadium. That with the Hispanic community here, it's awful.
• 41:40
  Track 2: Dodger Stadium, yeah. I mean, Chavez Ravine.
• 41:42
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 41:43
  Track 2: I guess I can also mention, I just like the, what's the other fucking thing?
• 41:48
  Track 2: I had another note that I was going to bring up.
• 41:50
  Track 4: While you're looking for that, I had a real quick one. I liked when they went
• 41:53
  Track 4: in to the radio station to first record.
• 42:00
  Track 4: And it's like, oh no, they're all looking for old timey music.
• 42:04
  Track 4: And it was like, just the desire for nostalgia when economic times are hard.
• 42:09
  Track 4: And you see that now. And we've been seeing it for a while.
• 42:13
  Track 3: Yeah something.
• 42:13
  Track 4: I picked up on i never really that never stood out to me before when watching this.
• 42:18
  Track 3: And they weaponize it nowadays like you know us you know i think most of us
• 42:22
  Track 3: are millennials uh you know like they've really weaponized,
• 42:26
  Track 3: nostalgia and capitalism with us and it's not it's no different like them weaponizing
• 42:30
  Track 3: nostalgia to like okay we're gonna have these old-time music because we know
• 42:33
  Track 3: it's gonna sell versus like doing something new but like us millennials got
• 42:37
  Track 3: in that trap of like the Funko Pops and,
• 42:40
  Track 3: you know all the different t-shirts and owning five versions of a record and
• 42:44
  Track 3: you know doing midnight shows and seeing the same thing over and over and over
• 42:47
  Track 3: again that's it's just our coping skills we want to go back to a world that
• 42:51
  Track 3: really didn't exist like we idealized the 90s and early 2000s I mean it's all
• 42:55
  Track 3: a joke like it wasn't what we really thought it was but,
• 42:58
  Track 3: it's interesting because yeah it's still prevalent today.
• 43:01
  Track 1: I don't I don't I've never thought about it is like, in general,
• 43:04
  Track 1: like, I don't think I never think about like nostalgia as like idealizing a
• 43:09
  Track 1: time period so much as just, it's like age regression.
• 43:12
  Track 1: It's like when you were just, it's not even like idealizing the time period
• 43:16
  Track 1: so much as how you felt, how you felt and bringing back and like,
• 43:20
  Track 1: but more to the, like it is looking to re,
• 43:26
  Track 1: to feel the innocence and the hope that you had.
• 43:30
  Track 4: Right and i think that's how i feel about it is it's the nostalgia of being
• 43:36
  Track 4: weaponized it's not so much,
• 43:38
  Track 4: aiming at somebody thinking oh i wish it was the 80s again it's it's aimed at
• 43:43
  Track 4: that part of you that exists under capitalism,
• 43:48
  Track 4: that yearns for relaxation and reprieve from oppressive systems.
• 43:55
  Track 3: And that's why that MAGA makes sense, like make America great again.
• 43:59
  Track 3: It taps into that. And I'm not saying I want, you know, go back to politics
• 44:02
  Track 3: of like catchy little phrases, but like that's something the Democratic Party
• 44:06
  Track 3: has absolutely not had for 20 years.
• 44:09
  Track 3: Like the only person who kind of did it was Obama. And it was a single word,
• 44:13
  Track 3: hope, which is so empty. Like, what does that even mean? Like hope means something
• 44:18
  Track 3: different for everyone. We all hope for a different thing.
• 44:21
  Track 3: but it's just interesting because it's like yeah i mean it really is make america
• 44:25
  Track 3: great again is like go back to that whatever period and it's so vague like when
• 44:28
  Track 3: you ask people like what does that mean to you
• 44:31
  Track 3: we all know the white racist guys are thinking the 50s 60s era which they don't
• 44:34
  Track 3: even understand had super progressive tax schemes in that area like they just don't fucking know,
• 44:39
  Track 3: but it's it's it taps into that emotional core and like honestly like,
• 44:44
  Track 3: trump's marketing was brilliant and it makes sense why he caught on in 2015
• 44:48
  Track 3: and not why you know people like us on the left were like begging the Democrats
• 44:52
  Track 3: to embrace some sort of leftist pop, any left leaning populism to combat that
• 44:56
  Track 3: during the Tea Party movement with,
• 44:59
  Track 3: I can't even think of her name. I could see Alaska from my house.
• 45:01
  Track 1: Palin.
• 45:03
  Track 3: Thank you.
• 45:06
  Track 1: What a time oh god.
• 45:08
  Track 3: And to think it.
• 45:08
  Track 4: Got it feels so much better i never remember her name is.
• 45:11
  Track 3: Worse to think it got worse from that.
• 45:15
  Track 1: Holy shit the acceleration it truly is like as like marxists and like you know
• 45:23
  Track 1: like long time like marxists who like we've like studied shit and we've like
• 45:28
  Track 1: looked back at things and it's like,
• 45:30
  Track 1: it is amazing to to be now in like 2026 and be like shit it is even worse than i thought like even.
• 45:39
  Track 3: Knowing things.
• 45:40
  Track 1: Worse than i thought like even like knowing things i'm like fuck it got worse
• 45:43
  Track 1: faster than i thought holy fuck.
• 45:45
  Track 3: Like i thought.
• 45:46
  Track 4: I knew shit no.
• 45:47
  Track 3: No it's so weird because like you brought up marks you know i like so when the
• 45:51
  Track 3: when i was first on your guys's show a couple months ago it was like,
• 45:55
  Track 3: the day after i got laid off from my job and now i'm on the show two days after
• 46:00
  Track 3: i got my first paycheck of getting a job again which is great you know i was
• 46:04
  Track 3: a little scared but it's so funny um,
• 46:08
  Track 3: but thank you um while i've been driving like i've you know been catching up
• 46:11
  Track 3: on podcasts and stuff because i wasn't commuting so i wasn't listening to stuff
• 46:14
  Track 3: but i also was like you know it's been a long time since i've read mark so i
• 46:17
  Track 3: got an audiobook version of it and i was like i'm gonna go through it and i'm
• 46:19
  Track 3: like i've been listening to,
• 46:21
  Track 3: um both the um communist manifesto and now i'm into um capital and i'm just
• 46:27
  Track 3: like listening to like chapter one,
• 46:30
  Track 3: of the communist manifesto and it was just like talking about like all the things
• 46:34
  Track 3: going on like jesus christ like chapter one is everything happening today like
• 46:38
  Track 3: oh my god it was so and i like i've read
• 46:41
  Track 3: the manifesto before and it was just like god this is so scary how accurate
• 46:45
  Track 3: this is like it's it's nostradamus level prophecy it's scary i mean.
• 46:50
  Track 1: In a similar vein this is why like you know people talk about like oh you know you should,
• 46:56
  Track 1: to read imperialism. That's the book you need to read because that outlines
• 47:00
  Track 1: exactly what is happening.
• 47:04
  Track 2: Was that in?
• 47:05
  Track 1: Yes. You need to read imperialism. You should read State and Rev.
• 47:08
  Track 1: I'm like, but you need to read imperialism. If you really want to know what
• 47:10
  Track 1: the fuck's going on, how this shit works, that's the one you got to read.
• 47:13
  Track 3: On the list.
• 47:14
  Track 2: I think we brought that one up here before. At least as, I don't remember what
• 47:17
  Track 2: episode it was, but we were talking about it at some point.
• 47:20
  Track 2: There was another part of the movie that I was going to mention that's funny.
• 47:24
  Track 2: I wish that more people, they had shown more people die at the KKK rally.
• 47:29
  Track 2: Like, they don't really, unfortunately, don't give us much there.
• 47:32
  Track 2: We just know that John Goodman's character likely dies because the cross falls on him.
• 47:35
  Track 3: I love how he caught the flag and it's all pointing and it looks like it's going
• 47:39
  Track 3: to get his other eye out because, you know, super intense.
• 47:42
  Track 3: So great. Are you going to get it in the cuts? You don't get it.
• 47:45
  Track 3: Like that moment, that anticipation, like the there's really only two real stories
• 47:51
  Track 3: from the Odyssey that really are prominently featured in here.
• 47:53
  Track 3: The Cyclops and the Sirens are the two biggest.
• 47:56
  Track 3: And you're just like waiting for that eye to go. And then it's taken away,
• 47:59
  Track 3: but then he gets killed anyway. So it's like, it subverts your expectations in like the best way.
• 48:04
  Track 4: It's such a good bait and switch in multiple ways.
• 48:08
  Track 2: Don't they, doesn't when Homer show up at the party, they're the,
• 48:12
  Track 2: like the fundraiser, doesn't he say something to the effect of,
• 48:16
  Track 2: doesn't he get like, those are the guys who...
• 48:19
  Track 1: Did something to the.
• 48:20
  Track 3: Confederate i've got that written down so it says um though these boys are not
• 48:26
  Track 3: white they interfered with the lynch mob and then he goes on to say he's like
• 48:29
  Track 3: i happen to be a member of a secret.
• 48:32
  Track 1: Society that does not need to be named all right so i want to.
• 48:38
  Track 4: And then they ran him out on a rail so good.
• 48:41
  Track 1: I want to i want to go over the like basically like the parallels else um so yes the uh,
• 48:51
  Track 1: the sirens the sirens and um uh the cyclops are the two but also the lotus eaters
• 48:58
  Track 1: uh the baptism is a direct reference to the lotus eaters from the odyssey um,
• 49:02
  Track 1: and the them calling under their spell prophecy.
• 49:05
  Track 3: At the beginning.
• 49:05
  Track 1: Too yeah the black man yeah i jumped ahead but i'm good yeah so starting right
• 49:10
  Track 1: off the bat the blind the blind prophet the guy you know the black man on the
• 49:14
  Track 1: rail car is blind and he lays out a prophecy which is fulfilled later on like.
• 49:21
  Track 4: Which leads into a super sick fade as they walk up.
• 49:24
  Track 1: To wash his.
• 49:25
  Track 4: Play cousin's place oh such a.
• 49:27
  Track 1: Sick so um we literally start out well first of all it starts out with invocation
• 49:32
  Track 1: to the muses but that's just like a um and obviously you know odysseus ulysses and his crew whatever uh,
• 49:41
  Track 1: hobo predicts ulysses won't get the treasure he seeks uh in the in the odyssey
• 49:45
  Track 1: um says you know he'll get many he'll take many years it takes place during
• 49:49
  Track 1: 12 the 12th century 1200 bc is right after the late bronze age collapse which is basically,
• 49:55
  Track 1: a fucking region-wide like depression like that there there was a yeah there was.
• 50:02
  Track 4: But so okay so kudos to well i didn't.
• 50:06
  Track 1: Fucking read the odyssey.
• 50:08
  Track 3: Was odysseus i read an abridged version yeah odysseus's wife.
• 50:13
  Track 1: Yeah who waited 20 years she was still her she was fine she she wasn't working
• 50:19
  Track 1: economically she was fine oh oh never mind then um.
• 50:23
  Track 4: Not so much credit she was a.
• 50:25
  Track 1: Queen like odysseus was literally the king oh oh see i don't read that shit.
• 50:31
  Track 4: Just like i didn't watch nolan's movie yeah no he's.
• 50:33
  Track 3: He's the king of Ithaca. That's the whole thing is like they can host all these
• 50:37
  Track 3: suitors but there's like over 20 years of hosting the suitors has depleted a
• 50:41
  Track 3: lot of their wealth but they still own it.
• 50:44
  Track 1: Yeah, she's fine. We don't need to give her any credit.
• 50:49
  Track 3: They're just, they're just, they're now into their, like, not so good wine is
• 50:53
  Track 3: where they're at in that story.
• 50:54
  Track 4: Well, I'm just helping catch up the people at home that also didn't read the Odyssey, all right?
• 50:58
  Track 1: In general, the Odyssey does take place during a time of regional economic,
• 51:05
  Track 1: maybe not depression, but, you know, decay.
• 51:07
  Track 1: Yeah, I mean, it is after a major, you know, a major civilization has collapsed.
• 51:12
  Track 1: um uh there is a there's repeated reference to individuals being uh pigs and
• 51:19
  Track 1: being sold out uh the witch cersei,
• 51:22
  Track 1: turns uh odysseus crew into pigs uh we've already mentioned like the blind the
• 51:27
  Track 1: the blind uh record video man is he's a reference to homer,
• 51:31
  Track 1: uh george babyfist nelson is a direct reference to hermes the god of thieves
• 51:36
  Track 1: he later then kills the cows,
• 51:40
  Track 1: and is strung up for that and his crime but like it is primarily the fact that
• 51:47
  Track 1: he killed their cows uh because,
• 51:49
  Track 1: odysseus's crew killed cows and um were smoked by he they killed helios's cows
• 51:58
  Track 1: and they were smoked by helios baby.
• 52:01
  Track 3: Yeah baby face died in a.
• 52:02
  Track 1: Shootout with the cops and well in but in the movie he is marched off by a um,
• 52:08
  Track 1: yeah a lynch mob of the people who in that lynch mob say he's a cow killer like
• 52:14
  Track 1: they're like he's a cow killer and they march him off um.
• 52:17
  Track 3: I missed that.
• 52:18
  Track 4: One who gives a fuck if.
• 52:19
  Track 1: You robin banks.
• 52:21
  Track 4: Fuck them banks.
• 52:22
  Track 1: Uh, but yes.
• 52:23
  Track 2: FDIC.
• 52:25
  Track 3: Oh, I think this was a little before that.
• 52:28
  Track 4: When banks took my neighbor's farm. That's, that's the more.
• 52:31
  Track 1: You know, the sirens, the sirens are, I think the sirens are actually like one
• 52:35
  Track 1: of the most like explicit other than the slacklops.
• 52:38
  Track 1: Um, and I do think that, you know, they did more than just gave him a,
• 52:44
  Track 1: a, because they referenced specifically throughout like his, their interactions.
• 52:48
  Track 1: Um, He makes references to mannerisms of the Cyclops being like,
• 52:53
  Track 1: he's like, I'm large, I'm, you know, when he says like, I'm a Mike Peckish even
• 52:58
  Track 1: after that meal, because the Cyclops in the Odyssey, he's always hungry.
• 53:03
  Track 1: And like, you know, they always, he does reference that multiple times.
• 53:07
  Track 1: So it's not just the eyepatch. He, and also the fact that the Cyclops does want
• 53:11
  Track 1: to, you know, basically steal from, you know, or well, he wants to eat Odysseus or whatever. um.
• 53:18
  Track 3: Yeah and he ends up having them pay for.
• 53:20
  Track 1: His lunch yeah and and then he wants to so funny
• 53:24
  Track 1: you know he's not gonna you know in this he's not gonna eat you know odysseus
• 53:28
  Track 1: he's not gonna eat you know ulysses but like he's going to do the next best
• 53:31
  Track 1: thing which is take all of his money so you know like that is as good you know.
• 53:36
  Track 3: Which babyface george.
• 53:37
  Track 1: Gave them they robbed.
• 53:38
  Track 3: That bank with him and he gave.
• 53:39
  Track 1: Them the money.
• 53:39
  Track 3: So like the little come up they had is.
• 53:41
  Track 1: Gone um and yes and And then, you know, the whole, you know,
• 53:47
  Track 1: that is the big aspect, you know, like the Cyclops and all that stuff.
• 53:50
  Track 1: There are, like, you know, a lot of, like, little name references.
• 53:54
  Track 1: I personally really, I love the Sirens aspect of it and how they think,
• 53:58
  Track 1: you know, that's my favorite reference in all of it, despite how much I love John Codeman.
• 54:03
  Track 1: But that is my favorite reference in all of it to the original.
• 54:06
  Track 3: And you saw Penelope, Penny.
• 54:08
  Track 1: Oh, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, and also Penelope and Penny. Yeah.
• 54:11
  Track 3: And there's technically a challenge,
• 54:12
  Track 3: even if the challenge is only to Everett and not all the suitors.
• 54:16
  Track 1: Well, there's only, you know, the Shun has one suitor.
• 54:19
  Track 3: One other suitor.
• 54:19
  Track 1: The Shun has one suitor.
• 54:20
  Track 3: Right. That we know of.
• 54:21
  Track 1: That's true.
• 54:22
  Track 3: No, it's probably just there.
• 54:24
  Track 1: And you know what? That is one thing I, you know, and again,
• 54:28
  Track 1: to go back to like, you know, how like this is an American interpretation,
• 54:33
  Track 1: you know, there has been criticism,
• 54:37
  Track 1: brought against Christopher Nolan that his interpretation basically just did not have enough sex.
• 54:43
  Track 1: And I think that that is a valid criticism for his version because it's trying to be Greek.
• 54:49
  Track 1: but this is trying to be this is an american odyssey and america.
• 54:52
  Track 3: Is tied.
• 54:52
  Track 1: Up in puritanism and sexual repression so i wouldn't expect.
• 54:57
  Track 3: A bunch of sex i do have a hot take for the nolan version at if you guys want to hear it absolutely so,
• 55:05
  Track 3: so nolan rightfully has been criticized for a lot of things of being conservative
• 55:09
  Track 3: coded not writing strong female characters not really making any statements,
• 55:14
  Track 3: um when making movies and i feel like this movie i don't think he was successful
• 55:19
  Track 3: but i actually took he think that was weird i think he took swings to try and combat some of that like,
• 55:27
  Track 3: you know the you know i know you guys all haven't seen the movie but like cersei
• 55:30
  Track 3: in the new version is very well written and very dominating and strong is probably
• 55:35
  Track 3: the most powerful moment in the movie at least when i watched it,
• 55:38
  Track 3: And then Penelope is a little bit different and stronger. And she actually calls
• 55:41
  Track 3: out like, why do I need Odysseus? Why do I need you, Tom Holland,
• 55:45
  Track 3: to be king? Like, I've been queen and running this shit for 20 years.
• 55:49
  Track 3: And so I think he took a swing at writing for women. I don't think he landed
• 55:53
  Track 3: because the whole Odyssey is strictly about a man coming home.
• 55:56
  Track 3: Like, there's no agency with these women.
• 55:58
  Track 3: And then I think even like with trans issues, like the character of Sinan played
• 56:02
  Track 3: by Elliot Page was original. like that actually is the only part that Achilles is in the Odyssey.
• 56:09
  Track 3: Elliot does take the Achilles role. And Sinon is always like a liar,
• 56:14
  Track 3: like throughout literary history, you know, in Dante's Inferno, Sinon is a liar.
• 56:19
  Track 3: There's a word synonymous or Sinon. I can't remember the word.
• 56:21
  Track 3: That means like a lying person. Cause Sinon was the character that lied to the
• 56:25
  Track 3: Greeks to got them to take the Trojan horse.
• 56:28
  Track 3: And in this version, Sinon is always telling the truth and Sinon,
• 56:33
  Track 3: it kind of takes that place. So it's like, it's almost like a pro-trans,
• 56:36
  Track 3: like I saw a trans woman write an op-ed being like, actually,
• 56:40
  Track 3: this movie is kind of pro-trans.
• 56:42
  Track 3: And so I actually think, and then he makes this big statement about capitalism,
• 56:45
  Track 3: like the whole Trojan War was actually about taking over the trade routes.
• 56:50
  Track 3: And then it ultimately, the big crux of the message is all the women are telling
• 56:53
  Track 3: Odysseus throughout and the people who give them the message of like,
• 56:57
  Track 3: dude, all your guys are going to die.
• 56:59
  Track 3: They're saying like, your men are rapists. Your men are pillagers.
• 57:02
  Track 3: They're not good people.
• 57:03
  Track 3: they tried to hand wash like you're a good person odysseus but your people aren't
• 57:07
  Track 3: like he actually does try to make a statement about how cruel men are it just
• 57:11
  Track 3: doesn't land like i think,
• 57:13
  Track 3: um christopher nolan really was trying to be like i listened to you guys and
• 57:17
  Track 3: i want to make a make a statement and it just was very flat and i that's just
• 57:22
  Track 3: my hot take on it i think he failed but i think he really i think that was his version of trying yeah.
• 57:27
  Track 4: I think that's Nolan's limit is like he can make stuff through his like his
• 57:33
  Track 4: like creative flow or like how he makes big spectacles and stuff like that.
• 57:38
  Track 4: But like, dude, he's not a message guy.
• 57:40
  Track 4: What has he been through? What is the experience to have like an actual fucking
• 57:44
  Track 4: message? He just breaks IMAX cameras and fucking calls it good.
• 57:47
  Track 2: Like, well, he wasn't one who broke the camera. I thought wasn't it.
• 57:51
  Track 4: He's broken several.
• 57:52
  Track 2: Oh, yeah. Okay.
• 57:53
  Track 1: Broken.
• 57:53
  Track 4: He's like part of the reason why there's like only two lightweight IMAX cameras right now.
• 57:59
  Track 2: Didn't, was it you who said that we should stop building bombs and start building
• 58:02
  Track 2: IMAX cameras? Someone was saying that.
• 58:05
  Track 1: Stop.
• 58:06
  Track 4: I don't know if I said that, but it seems close to my sentiments.
• 58:09
  Track 1: Stop building bombs and start building IMAX cameras.
• 58:13
  Track 3: I mean, if you're going to go that way, you need to build IMAX theaters because
• 58:16
  Track 3: there's like five in the country that could actually play 70 millimeter IMAX.
• 58:21
  Track 4: I've definitely mentioned about like the fact that like it's not a like our
• 58:25
  Track 4: society has way higher priorities, but we got to do something about fucking
• 58:28
  Track 4: being able to watch figure formats like 70 millimeter and shit like that.
• 58:33
  Track 4: I did say that like we got way bigger priorities, but like something needs to
• 58:38
  Track 4: be done about this shit. I mean, I want to watch IMAX.
• 58:40
  Track 3: That's literally what I did for a living was designing theaters for that kind of stuff.
• 58:45
  Track 4: Yeah, I just want to watch 70 mil format at home.
• 58:48
  Track 3: I don't care.
• 58:48
  Track 4: If i got black bars on the side give me the fucking.
• 58:51
  Track 3: Format no there are people who have those setups in their homes but it's curtains
• 58:54
  Track 3: that come around come down i used to design theaters for a living and i've had
• 58:59
  Track 3: to design around imax enhanced on disney plus the word.
• 59:04
  Track 1: You're looking for.
• 59:05
  Track 3: Um is.
• 59:06
  Track 1: Synodical uh it was coined in the 16th century um it is it is it means cunning betrayal and deceit,
• 59:15
  Track 1: Yeah. Which is funny.
• 59:17
  Track 4: Yeah, I always think it's synonymous. Same thing.
• 59:20
  Track 1: Yeah, like synonymous, or the word synonym in and of itself,
• 59:25
  Track 1: I think probably has roots in that, because I'm not looking up the etymology of synonym.
• 59:29
  Track 1: But I assume it probably has something, some roots in that.
• 59:32
  Track 4: I thought you were.
• 59:33
  Track 1: No, I looked up synonymous.
• 59:35
  Track 3: He was trying to figure out. He was trying to show me a solid and finding the
• 59:38
  Track 3: word that came out of Dante's Inferno.
• 59:41
  Track 4: Yeah, and I was pushing him about it, because I like to fuck with him.
• 59:43
  Track 1: I'm sure that the. the i appreciate i'm sure that the the etymology of that
• 59:48
  Track 1: is somehow rooted in the fact that synonyms are basically other words masking
• 59:53
  Track 1: as other words you know like almost it's like layers on another word um,
• 59:58
  Track 1: my personal take on uh 70 millimeter uh and all of that is that we don't fucking need it,
• 1:00:05
  Track 1: i don't think we need imax cameras or imax films i think they're unnecessary
• 1:00:09
  Track 1: uh which is like my biggest like,
• 1:00:14
  Track 1: to to to go back to like why like,
• 1:00:18
  Track 1: i started all and i'm like why are we talking about this and like part of it
• 1:00:21
  Track 1: is you know like i've i personally wanted to talk about this movie because i
• 1:00:26
  Track 1: felt like like i said like this is an actual interpretation like an american
• 1:00:30
  Track 1: you know this is the truest american or western
• 1:00:33
  Track 1: interpretation of the odyssey i think,
• 1:00:35
  Track 1: and in comparison to like Nolan's, which I think is just an ego project.
• 1:00:40
  Track 1: It's just an ego project.
• 1:00:42
  Track 1: And that man, and that, that man, and like, I, I,
• 1:00:46
  Track 1: I am historically, like, I've enjoyed a great many of Christopher Nolan's films.
• 1:00:51
  Track 1: I like Christopher Nolan movies, some of them.
• 1:00:54
  Track 1: The Prestige is one of my, like, all-time favorite movies. I love that movie.
• 1:00:58
  Track 1: We recorded it, and we— Yeah.
• 1:00:59
  Track 3: Fair.
• 1:01:00
  Track 1: I fucking love that movie. I think Memento is an amazing—I think it's one of,
• 1:01:05
  Track 1: the—it is also a great movie.
• 1:01:07
  Track 1: I really enjoy his Batman films,
• 1:01:11
  Track 1: though I do think Batman is kind of like a special case. Like you can't really,
• 1:01:17
  Track 1: count it in certain ways because there's so many like,
• 1:01:21
  Track 1: so many things tied into Batman. So it's like you can only do so much with it.
• 1:01:24
  Track 1: So, you know, but like the first thing I thought when I was,
• 1:01:29
  Track 1: when I heard about this movie was like, okay, well how, and now how,
• 1:01:32
  Track 1: how is Christopher Nolan going to make an Odyssey movie where it's about himself?
• 1:01:36
  Track 1: Because that's all it has gotten over the years. It's just, everything's just
• 1:01:39
  Track 1: more and more about him and his own shit.
• 1:01:42
  Track 1: And like what he thinks and how he sees art. And like all of that,
• 1:01:46
  Track 1: that's all it is to the point where like, and like, I,
• 1:01:50
  Track 1: I think that he is in many ways, you know, like they say, like,
• 1:01:53
  Track 1: you know, Trump is a, a rich man for a stupid person to a stupid person.
• 1:01:57
  Track 1: And to me, like, no one has become, you know, the, the ignorant,
• 1:02:03
  Track 1: and I mean ignorant, like, not like in a negative way, but like the person who doesn't.
• 1:02:09
  Track 1: engage with like things in a certain way like their version of like an auteur
• 1:02:14
  Track 1: like their version of like you know,
• 1:02:16
  Track 1: an art an artistic director and it's he's not he makes big budget shit and breaks
• 1:02:23
  Track 1: cameras i mean first of all.
• 1:02:28
  Track 1: I'm ward i'm i'm all right you ward you go.
• 1:02:32
  Track 4: Would you say that he's a bard for a civilization at dusk,
• 1:02:40
  Track 4: not original from me that is a interview he had with a chinese scholar who hit
• 1:02:45
  Track 4: him with some like very serious questions and he didn't really have any answers,
• 1:02:51
  Track 4: like why did you christianize your interpretation and adaptation of the odyssey,
• 1:02:56
  Track 4: there's no themes of redemption in the original why did you.
• 1:02:59
  Track 1: Add them yeah i could yeah no totally yeah that's definitely an that is a that
• 1:03:03
  Track 1: is an Excellent. Yeah, definitely.
• 1:03:06
  Track 4: Read a bull interview. Link it in the show notes, Evan.
• 1:03:11
  Track 2: I've read that one too, actually.
• 1:03:12
  Track 1: Yeah, no, I like that a lot. I would agree. And like the fact that like,
• 1:03:16
  Track 1: and like I always say, he's basically like the tech bro of the movie industry
• 1:03:20
  Track 1: now because like now like he really just, what does he talk about? What does he care about?
• 1:03:24
  Track 1: Fucking IMAX, filming an IMAX. I'm sorry.
• 1:03:27
  Track 1: I learned with the Odyssey, along with Tom Holland, that IMAX cameras could
• 1:03:31
  Track 1: only film for three minutes at a time.
• 1:03:33
  Track 1: How the fuck do you get a good performance out of a fucking actor three minutes at a time?
• 1:03:37
  Track 1: I'm sorry.
• 1:03:37
  Track 3: Well, it's so much so that they put so much time. Like, Matt Damon,
• 1:03:42
  Track 3: so now that Spider-Man's out, you know, John Bernthal, Zendaya,
• 1:03:48
  Track 3: and Tom Holland, who are all three in this movie, had had to,
• 1:03:51
  Track 3: like, stop promoting the Odyssey and start promote Spider-Man.
• 1:03:55
  Track 3: So it's just been Matt Damon and Sharice Throne. But, like, every single thing
• 1:03:58
  Track 3: I saw leading up to Spider-Man coming out, they were only talking about how
• 1:04:02
  Track 3: they had to do these weird mirrors around, like, three mirrors in front of the IMAX camera.
• 1:04:06
  Track 3: so you can see the person on the other side and semi get a feeling of the emotion
• 1:04:11
  Track 3: that they're presenting because you can't even see each other while you're on there.
• 1:04:14
  Track 3: And the cameras are so loud, they had to build this like soundproof box around
• 1:04:18
  Track 3: it that's like 18 feet long and four feet thick and have these guys around.
• 1:04:22
  Track 3: It's like, yeah, visually it's impressive. Like I saw it in IMAX.
• 1:04:24
  Track 3: It was an incredible visual, but like, what are we really doing with this?
• 1:04:29
  Track 2: It's empty.
• 1:04:29
  Track 4: They're like the size of trucks. That's crazy. Like the non-lightweight ones,
• 1:04:34
  Track 4: which there's only two of thanks to fucking nolan um yeah they're like fucking trucks.
• 1:04:39
  Track 1: This is the same sentiment that drives the people behind that they're they're
• 1:04:45
  Track 1: driving the notion of creating art with ai they forget that the point of art,
• 1:04:52
  Track 1: is the human connection the human story the point of art is the emotion not the fucking,
• 1:04:59
  Track 1: the cost of the technology behind it it's not that it looks like the point of
• 1:05:04
  Track 1: a movie is not that it looks just,
• 1:05:07
  Track 1: gigantic and like you could see every pore on the actor's face i don't care
• 1:05:12
  Track 1: about seeing all of that perfect i want to see the emotion,
• 1:05:17
  Track 1: and the actor is what's bringing that not your fucking camera again we go back
• 1:05:21
  Track 1: to there's no reason to remaster oh brother where are thou.
• 1:05:24
  Track 4: Oh good bookend yeah like i can absolutely like appreciate like working around
• 1:05:31
  Track 4: the limitations of like your medium and appreciating the technical aspects but like,
• 1:05:37
  Track 4: Dog, if your movie is bullshit and terrible, I don't care if I can see the pores on their faces.
• 1:05:43
  Track 1: And I think you're not, he's not working around the limitations of his medium.
• 1:05:47
  Track 1: He's introducing difficulties, new limitations, purely for the purpose of braggadocio, the ego.
• 1:05:57
  Track 3: And it's so interesting you say that because like there's two movies out in
• 1:06:00
  Track 3: theaters right now that I think argue exactly what you're trying to argue right
• 1:06:04
  Track 3: now. So it's like, I'm going to do one big picture one, like big budget one and one smaller one.
• 1:06:08
  Track 3: So like Spider-Man, you know, you can say what you want about that movie,
• 1:06:12
  Track 3: but you have Daniel Destin Cretton. I think that's right.
• 1:06:15
  Track 3: You know, they brought in and did actual practical web swinging and rope work
• 1:06:19
  Track 3: and everything, but it made it.
• 1:06:21
  Track 3: a more realistic performance and it made it more true to life great you know
• 1:06:25
  Track 3: they didn't just do it for the sake of doing it to make it harder there was
• 1:06:27
  Track 3: a reason behind it and they thought it would make the movie better which i thought it did,
• 1:06:31
  Track 3: and then you go on the opposite end of the spectrum i don't know what this budget
• 1:06:34
  Track 3: is i know evan saw it i saw it on letterboxd but um teenage sex at camp,
• 1:06:39
  Track 3: teenage sex and death at camp miasmo i saw that last night and it's you know
• 1:06:44
  Track 3: they have matte paintings all throughout that movie and it's all very personal
• 1:06:48
  Track 3: they have you know super close-ups of um,
• 1:06:52
  Track 3: hannah einbinder and jillian anderson and it's like it's all about their,
• 1:06:57
  Track 3: their their performances and you know what's not being said super fascinating
• 1:07:00
  Track 3: so it's like it gives me hope that there are still filmmakers i can't remember
• 1:07:04
  Track 3: the writer and director of this movie um i really went and saw it for jillian
• 1:07:07
  Track 3: anderson and hannah einbinder,
• 1:07:09
  Track 3: yes thank you um but it gives me hope that there are still people like that out there
• 1:07:14
  Track 3: and people like daniel dustin critton who had the keys to the car of these big
• 1:07:17
  Track 3: things and going you know what i'm going to do something other people haven't
• 1:07:19
  Track 3: done and make this more real and make this more grounded so it feels like something
• 1:07:23
  Track 3: you can connect to versus just i'm going to make this hard for the sake of being hard.
• 1:07:27
  Track 1: Or we could just we could just go like the easiest thing obsession with what
• 1:07:32
  Track 1: was the budget obsession again.
• 1:07:33
  Track 3: 750 000.
• 1:07:35
  Track 1: Under a million dollars like and.
• 1:07:36
  Track 3: That i think theater is going to have a big comeback like as ai because as they
• 1:07:41
  Track 3: start actually making movies with ai i think we're going to see like theater
• 1:07:44
  Track 3: and Broadway and community theater become the de facto entertainment again or concerts.
• 1:07:50
  Track 3: Like people are going to concerts again because you crave the real,
• 1:07:53
  Track 3: like you, you hit it on the head earlier. Like art is the human expression.
• 1:07:57
  Track 3: It's the human connection.
• 1:07:59
  Track 3: And I think we're going to go back to live performances.
• 1:08:03
  Track 1: I'm driving to Tennessee to see a concert. Like two weeks or like three weeks.
• 1:08:13
  Track 1: but yeah that.
• 1:08:14
  Track 2: Was a good.
• 1:08:16
  Track 1: Yeah,
• 1:08:18
  Track 1: I've gone like, and I think at a certain point, Nolan understood that.
• 1:08:22
  Track 1: I think he understood that with Memento.
• 1:08:24
  Track 1: I think he understood that with Prestige. I think the Prestige is.
• 1:08:27
  Track 3: Insomnia.
• 1:08:28
  Track 1: Yeah. I think. Yeah. Yes. Insomnia. I haven't seen Insomnia a long time,
• 1:08:33
  Track 1: but that movie sticks with you. And that is just. Yeah.
• 1:08:35
  Track 4: So good.
• 1:08:36
  Track 1: But like, I think the Prestige, the interpersonal, the way he played the interpersonal
• 1:08:41
  Track 1: relationships of Prestige really says a lot.
• 1:08:45
  Track 1: And he has, I think, gone so far from that and has completely, he's lost at the sauce.
• 1:08:52
  Track 3: You started to get it back in Interstellar and then it went away because.
• 1:08:57
  Track 1: It's Interstellar.
• 1:08:59
  Track 3: That's a good point.
• 1:09:01
  Track 1: Interstellar's too.
• 1:09:02
  Track 4: I feel like he got lucky with Interstellar
• 1:09:04
  Track 4: and then just continued on his track of, oh, I'm one big name.
• 1:09:09
  Track 4: I don't really deal with people anymore. What did he do after Interstellar?
• 1:09:11
  Track 4: I don't understand inter-personal relationships because I just tell people what to do.
• 1:09:15
  Track 3: See, I love Tenet, but that's just because, you know, pandemic is the first,
• 1:09:19
  Track 3: I got to drive an hour to go see it because it was, there's one county near
• 1:09:22
  Track 3: me that was open during the pandemic because the numbers went down.
• 1:09:25
  Track 3: So I went and saw it, but Dunkirk.
• 1:09:27
  Track 1: Dunkirk, yeah. And that was on, that was on, because that was, was the.
• 1:09:32
  Track 3: I think Dunkirk's is overrated. I think it's probably his most super rated movie.
• 1:09:37
  Track 3: Kirk.
• 1:09:37
  Track 4: Done him right in the neck.
• 1:09:39
  Track 3: You didn't listen to Wu-Tang. Protecting your neck.
• 1:09:44
  Track 4: Nope.
• 1:09:44
  Track 1: Dunkirk was...
• 1:09:49
  Track 1: Was that distributed? Yeah. Was that?
• 1:09:51
  Track 3: That would have still been Warner. He only did the one movie.
• 1:09:53
  Track 3: He did Tenet. So the only movie... No, it wasn't Tenet. Did he do something between Tenet and this?
• 1:09:59
  Track 3: Oh, Oppenheimer. Oppenheimer was Paramount. That's the only movie he did that
• 1:10:02
  Track 3: was not with Warner Brothers. And then he went back to him for The Odyssey.
• 1:10:06
  Track 1: No. Yeah. Oppenheimer's Universal.
• 1:10:07
  Track 3: That's right.
• 1:10:09
  Track 1: Dunkirk and Tendon were Warner Brothers, Interstellar's Paramount,
• 1:10:11
  Track 1: and then Oppenheimer and Odyssey are Universal.
• 1:10:13
  Track 3: I thought he was with Warner longer than that.
• 1:10:16
  Track 1: It's Paramount. It's Paramount, Warner Brothers. It's that time when they were kind of...
• 1:10:22
  Track 3: There's also, I think he just had a first look at the time. Not the...
• 1:10:26
  Track 1: It was during the time when Paramount and Warner were kind of like...
• 1:10:30
  Track 1: They were, whatever, linked together differently.
• 1:10:34
  Track 1: Hell, this shit works. You know how these things.
• 1:10:39
  Track 2: Um all right well any any any oh brother where art thou final thoughts.
• 1:10:46
  Track 3: It's a great.
• 1:10:46
  Track 1: Movie yes fantastic you don't need
• 1:10:49
  Track 1: you don't need to go watch no one's ego stroke just fucking watch this,
• 1:10:56
  Track 1: this exists about our culture.
• 1:11:00
  Track 2: You didn't have to break any imax.
• 1:11:01
  Track 1: Cameras zero imax cameras were kill we're broken no amex cameras were killed
• 1:11:06
  Track 1: in the making of this film.
• 1:11:09
  Track 2: The frog was okay.
• 1:11:11
  Track 1: So the last time I watched this was my wife's first time watching it.
• 1:11:15
  Track 1: I was like, you know, I was like, you gotta, you gotta see. I'm like,
• 1:11:19
  Track 1: cause she's like, I never seen it. I was like, oh, you gotta see it.
• 1:11:21
  Track 1: I was like, I don't, I watched so many things that Jackie just like ignores
• 1:11:25
  Track 1: when I'm watching stuff or like I watched her and she like falls asleep.
• 1:11:30
  Track 1: If she looked at my letterbox, she'd be amazed at all the movies I've seen.
• 1:11:32
  Track 1: She's like, what the fuck? When did you watch this?
• 1:11:35
  Track 1: but when this scene where he throws the frog at the tree she was horrified she
• 1:11:41
  Track 1: was why did he have to do that,
• 1:11:45
  Track 1: so mean I'm like yeah she was distraught she was distraught at that.
• 1:11:52
  Track 3: I've got nothing.
• 1:11:52
  Track 2: Else alright well Mike thank you for coming on thanks for having me left with
• 1:11:58
  Track 2: the Jector for myself Bill Ward go watch Oh Brother Where Art Thou.
• 1:12:03
  Track 1: I have no hair.
• 1:12:05
  Track 2: Man.
• 1:12:07
  Track 4: If you want to watch Nolan's The Odyssey, pirate it.
• 1:12:10
  Track 3: There you go, that's fair.
• 1:12:12
  Track 2: Pirate it in 70mm IMAX and watch it on your phone.
• 1:12:15
  Track 1: Oh my god.
• 1:12:17
  Track 4: That's the way to fucking do it. I saw it like Nolan intended.
• 1:12:21
  Track 3: Did you see all the memes of that?
• 1:12:22
  Track 2: There's one with a pregnancy test.
• 1:12:25
  Track 3: I saw one where it was like obviously Robert Pattinson's in a movie and the
• 1:12:29
  Track 3: scene in the first Twilight where she's got a little point and shoot camera
• 1:12:33
  Track 3: and it's like Robert Pattinson's Edward looking at Bella and she's like,
• 1:12:36
  Track 3: I'm watching the Odyssey as the intended.
• 1:12:39
  Track 3: And it's like, you're watching it on a little point and shoot camera from 2008.
• 1:12:42
  Track 3: And he's like, your daddy's not coming home or some shit like that.
• 1:12:48
  Track 2: Oh, all right. Well, you've been listening to Left of the Objector.
• 1:12:51
  Track 2: We'll catch you next time.