Latest / I Do, Part 2 / Kathy Experiences A Huge Dating Faux Pas and DeAnna Dabbles in Dating

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Kathy Experiences A Huge Dating Faux Pas and DeAnna Dabbles in Dating · I Do, Part 2

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: iHeart podcasts, bring you the ultimate Summer of love Tree.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: This is famously Available.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Famously Available. I am one of
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: your dating besties, Dianna Stagliano, and I'm here with my
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: very good new dating.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Bestie, Kathy Swarts. I'm right here with you. So excited
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: to catch up with you on girl chat. What's going
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: on in your life? And happy belated birthday, dear, thank.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: You, my darling. This is so exciting because usually it's
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: me and Ben and listen, I really love Ben. I
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: think he's a gem, a true gem. But like, how
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: much fun is it that you and I can just
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: talk girl to girl about all of the things that
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: are going on. This makes me so very happy.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Kathy, so let's jump in. Tell me what's been going
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: on with you and then I'll tell you all the
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: fabulous and it's not that's been going on in my life?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, what is going on? Okay? I just
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: turned forty four, I know.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Spring child. You look fabulous.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you, darling, Thank you so many good things. I
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: have so much joy and peace in my life right now.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: My birthday was amazing and it was just super low key.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It was just me and my friends and the women
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  Speaker 1: that I love. And it's not my first single birthday,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: but I will tell you this, it's the first birthday
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  Speaker 1: that I didn't drink alcohol, because as you know, I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: don't drink anymore. And it was one of the best
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: birthdays that I have ever had. I just had such
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: a wonderful week being surrounded by great people. I got
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to do some filming with some bachelor bachelorettes. Really that
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: was delightful. And I just I have many wonderful surprises.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys for sending me some Crumble cookies. I
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: enjoyed every last bite. And I have tons of flowers
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: which just bring me so much joy.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: So wait, let me ask you if I mean I
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: remember back you've been single? How long?
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Several years?
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, so it was? It was it felt weird to you?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: Did it feel weird to spend your birthday? You said
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: with people that love you? And I'm assuming people you love.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: All women, all women. I will tell you that a
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: man sent me the most beautiful bouquet of flowers.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, well look at all those beautiful oh gorgeous.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Well I want to hear, I want to hear about
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: that man, But I you know my birthdays. I'm a
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: few years older than you, the as everyone knows. But
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I remember when my husband died and we're coming upon Christmas.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Holidays I will say are still tough for me. Birthdays
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: are tough because it's just marching through another year, another
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: trip around the sun, which I'm thrilled it beats the
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: alternative for sure. But I have trouble celebrating my birthday
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: being made the center of attention because I don't have
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: anyone to share it with. Yes, my children, I love them.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: They always make a big deal about me for my birthday,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: but I still my husband made such a big thing
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: about my birthday, so it still feels empty to me.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I love that for you, Kathy, though, because you were
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: married for so many years. What a great example and
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: a way for him to set the stage for this other,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: really wonderful part of your life. Like you have a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: whole other life to live, Kathy, which is really beautiful.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And when you do find someone and you are dating someone,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: they do have big shoes to fill, right, What a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: beautiful story that you had this man. And that's not
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: dismissing that there are ups and downs and marriages and relationships.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: But what a wonderful gift that you had this man
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: that made you feel so loved and so beautiful and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: celebrated you on your birthday. Like that's really beautiful.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, birthdays have always been a big thing
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: in our family. So yes, it's great. It's great to
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: be celebrated by your children and your friends. And every
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: year somebody has a party for me to go out
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: for dinner, the cake, the whole thing, and it's always fun.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: But I never forget those fun birthdays. And then now
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: here we are, you know, barking up the tree of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I have to say, when I
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: was on the Bachelor, everyone said, you know, I was
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: crazy for Christmas, and literally my house is already decorated.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I saw your Instagram going through all of your little
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Santa clauses, little keys, I saw.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I made I need appointed a lot of
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: those since that you know represents years of work. But
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I love but I will be I'll be honest, It's
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: very difficult for me to decorate to get through the
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: holidays because I love my family and I love this celebration.
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  Speaker 2: But I always I dreaded in a way as well,
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  Speaker 2: and I think people who have lost spouses or been
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: through a divorce or lost to child loss. In general,
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the holidays are tough for people, or at least for me,
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: but I think many people who have suffered loss, because
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: your mind goes automatically back to quote unquote better times
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: when your family was together, when you have that spouse.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So for me, putting up the tree and playing the
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  Speaker 2: Christmas music, I'm going to cry that I did with
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: my kids and my husband. It's really hard. And I
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: don't know if that's hard for you, buddy, It is hard.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: So much, and I am so glad we were able
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: to do this today because I just, I just genuinely
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: love you and your openness, and I love that we
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: are in two different walks of life, you know what
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: I mean. I believe I'm wise beyond my years, but
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that's because of the thousands of dollars worth of therapy.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: But it's neither here nor there. But I just relate
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  Speaker 1: to you on so many levels. But what we are
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: going to do right now is we're going to give
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: two different perspectives, and I love that so so although
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: we have walked through similar things, which is both grief, right,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: you walked through the physical loss of a loved one,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a spouse, and what I equate divorce to is grief.
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  Speaker 1: I have had to do is mourn that relationship and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: be app to bed.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why d that's why not to interrupt, but
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: that's why I always say. People say, oh, Kathy, your
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: husband died by suicide. That must be the worst thing.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: How do you move on? I always say the same thing.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Loss is loss, and your divorce, losing a child, losing
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  Speaker 2: a spouse, losing a job, whatever the loss is, we
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  Speaker 2: all have to learn to adapt and how to walk forward.
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  Speaker 2: And in my case, I've done. I also have spent
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: thousands on therapy, but I'm glad I did because I
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: walk in the light now. I walk happily looking forward
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: to the next day of my life, you know, to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: what surprises. I wake up grateful every day.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I think you emanate that, Kathy. I really
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: think you do a great job of emanating that. And
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: you have a wonderful story of someone who has overcome grief.
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  Speaker 1: So what I want to touch on here is that
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  Speaker 1: we're very different in the sense that I don't I
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: really enjoyed my birthday as a single person I really
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: really grieved the loss of my marriage, and I put
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: that one to bed. There was when I was still
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  Speaker 1: living in the same home with my ex husband and
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: my children. Those first were really hard because we were
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: still trying to pretend to be a family. It was
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: just that it was torture or the entire time. And
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I don't feel that anymore. I feel, you know, it's
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: funny that we're doing this dating show because someone has
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: big shoes to feel for me, like really big shoes
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  Speaker 1: to feel Kathy, because I'm very comfortable on my own.
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  Speaker 1: I am not out seeking a relationship. If something lands
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  Speaker 1: in my path and it is the right person and
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  Speaker 1: it's really great, I will joyfully welcome that. I am
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  Speaker 1: very secure on my own. I am very confident on
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  Speaker 1: my own. My birthday as a single woman was amazing.
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  Speaker 1: I woke up in a hotel after spending the day
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  Speaker 1: with a bunch of women that I love, laughing and
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  Speaker 1: being together, and I woke up with a heart full
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  Speaker 1: of gratitude with the love that I have for these women.
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  Speaker 1: What a beautiful experience we've all been the lead of
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  Speaker 1: a television show. I looked around that room at these
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  Speaker 1: women and just smiled because I thought, no one will
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  Speaker 1: ever know what it has been like for us, what
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  Speaker 1: a great group of women to be a part of.
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  Speaker 1: And my heart was so flipping full, Kathy. And then
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  Speaker 1: I got to come home, and I got to sit
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  Speaker 1: in my own really clean house. Yeah, and I got
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  Speaker 1: to take a nap. I got to meet a friend
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon for coffee, and then I got to
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  Speaker 1: go to Trigger Jos and buy all my favorite things.
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  Speaker 1: And then I got to come home and there were
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: cookies on my doorstep from Famously Available, and there was
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: the largest bouquet of flowers from a man that I
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  Speaker 1: find attractive and I enjoy conversation with. But the truth
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  Speaker 1: the matter is I spent my birthday the way that
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  Speaker 1: I want to. I spent it with the women that
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  Speaker 1: I love the most. Right seaking women, Kathy have put
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  Speaker 1: on boots and trudged through the absolute mud with me
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  Speaker 1: when I was at my lowest, and not one of them,
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  Speaker 1: not one of them tossed me out like a bag
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  Speaker 1: of trash because it was.
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  Speaker 2: Too much right.
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  Speaker 1: This group of women that were here proved to me
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  Speaker 1: that I'm not a broken little girl, that I am
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  Speaker 1: worth loving.
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  Speaker 2: A couple of things you said I, first of all,
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  Speaker 2: on the shoes to fill. No one's going to fill
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  Speaker 2: my and nor do I want another man to fill
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  Speaker 2: my husband's shoes. I'm looking for a new chapter in
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  Speaker 2: my life. So that's maybe one difference, or maybe it
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  Speaker 2: was just your tradition for but the other thing, where
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  Speaker 2: I think my age is has helped me a little bit.
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  Speaker 2: I don't a lot of people when when someone dies
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  Speaker 2: by suicide, they'll say, you know, what did you do wrong?
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  Speaker 2: I didn't do anything wrong, and I don't need when
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  Speaker 2: you said, toss me out like yesterday's trash. I don't
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  Speaker 2: need anyone to tell me my value. I have lived
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  Speaker 2: a lot of life. I celebrate who I am every day,
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  Speaker 2: and whether that's with men or women, I don't need
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: people to bolster me up. I need friends, I need support.
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  Speaker 2: We all need that, but I don't. I don't let
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: anyone determine my self worth except for me, and I
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: think that comes I wasn't always that way. But but
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: it sounds like maybe your divorce was a little more
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: acrimonious than than some Maybe not. And if your ex
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: husband made you feel like a bag of trash, I'm
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: really sorry, because you are a wonderful woman, and I
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: think that's sad. So I hope that you can get
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: to a place where you can have a great birthday
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  Speaker 2: by yourself or with your friends. But don't ever, I
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  Speaker 2: would My advice that you're not asking for is don't
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  Speaker 2: let any person ever make you feel like yesterday's news,
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  Speaker 2: yesterday's trash, a bag of trash, anything that has that
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: negative pejorative connotation. Because you are a lovely woman. I've
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: gotten to know you. You're lovely, you're smart, you're charming, you've
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: got great kids, you have so much going in your life.
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  Speaker 2: Having said all that, I don't need a man to
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: make me feel complete. I am complete just the way
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  Speaker 2: I am. I would love to find someone. It will.
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  Speaker 2: I think the relationship I'm looking for will absolutely look
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: different from my relationship with my husband. I mean, I
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: was married almost forty six years. We raised kids, we
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: moved homes, we built careers, all of those things that
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not looking to do now. But I will say
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I ventured I was going to get into this. The
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: reason I asked you about your dating life, I had
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a really bizarre I've had some dates, and as I
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: said to Ben when we talked, I struggle to find
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: men to date because my age belies my energy level,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and I have lots of energy to do fun things,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: and I'm adventurous and I have a big heart, and
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: my heart, while it was shattered when my husband died,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: it has grown and it's open and ready for the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: next relationship. That is all a preamble to say that
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: for me, dating apps have not been great, which is
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: why I'm so excited about this opportunity, because people who
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: know me are going to set me up, hopefully on
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: these great dates. I had a very good friend who
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I've known forty something years called me from the East
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Coast and said, I think I have a guy for you,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: and I said, okay, I was actually going to visit
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: them for a weekend. So that's when I met this guy,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: and it was unbelievable. I thought, oh my gosh, you know,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: this is my time. I've been through, kissed a lot
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: of frogs, all the things that we say when we're dating.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I remember you sharing yeah about him when we were
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: at the Jonas Brothers Concerts whatever a month or so
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: ago ago. I remember you were really excited.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I was because we talked on the phone and I
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: thought I can't. I learned a couple of things when
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Ben asked what kind of guy I was looking for.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: You know, I do want a guy who laughs and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: loves adventure. This guy a little more circumspect, a little
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: more quiet, like my husband was dry since humor and
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: I So the thing I've learning is there's always lessons
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: to learn, no matter how old you are, no matter
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: how many men you date. This guy the red flag
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: for me was his wife died about seven months ago,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: maybe eight months ago now, but she had had cancer
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: and had suffered for almost two years. And so I thought, okay,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: he may not be ready to date, but we have
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: to be vulnerable. We have to put ourselves out there.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Men are not coming to our door and knocking. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: you know when you said, if I meet a man,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: they're not going to come to your door, we have
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: to put the energy in. So I did and it
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: went great. And then he asked me to come back
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: for a five day four days, to go to a
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: football game with him, to go out for dinner with him,
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: to go to a shrimp a party, a neighborhood shrimp
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: oil or something, some you know, neighborhood gathering go to.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: We had all these plans. I get back there, staying
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: with my friends again, and I'm there twenty minutes and
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: he tells me that he's dating a woman that he
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: met before me. Yeah, they'd had six glorious dates in
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: six days. And I just looked at him and I said,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: why didn't you understand he was still calling me? He
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: was still he.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Had you still come to his home to visit?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I said so when he told me, I said,
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: why didn't you call me and tell me? And he
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: said because I thought we were dating? And I thought
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I owed it to you face to face. And I said,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: as kindly as I could, No, we weren't dating. This
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: weekend was to see if we were going to date.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: And in that moment, I felt the woman everything he
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: told me he was looking for. He you know, he
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: said he liked that I was independent, he liked that
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: I have my own podcasts and that I do things
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: with bachelor. He said, I'm not looking for a woman
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: who needs me. I'm looking everything. We were so aligned.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: So when he said that, I was stunned, and I said,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I wish you had called. It would have made so.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I spent four days with my friends who i've known
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: them for years. It was a lovely visit with them,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: but I was so humiliated because all of the people
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: in that neighborhood. I know these people, I've known them
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: for years. They're saying, how's it going with them? You know?
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So it was really hard and here so for me
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: at this age, and I was going to ask you,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: if where you are in this? For me, every date,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: every experience I have, I try to take a lesson
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: from and I always say things like, well, Kathy, you
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: know he he hadn't evolved, and not from the death
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: of his wife. He said he was ready to move on,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: but he really wasn't. And I feel like I should
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: have I'm not being hard on myself, but I should
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: have said, he's in the candy store, I'm ale one
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: and I'm great chocolate. You know, I'm just European fabulous
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: chocolate chocolate. Thank you. But he's he's looking down at
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Aisle six go and what else is there?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Ned They're not long lasting.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Right, My metaphor is exactly My metaphor is I want
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: to be the girl at the checkout line. I don't
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: want to be And so I think I was trying
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: to give him grace that maybe he was ready to
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: find his partner because she had had cancer. He told
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: me he was ready. But I've got to tell you
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: it was it was a gut punch because I just thought,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: you know, you have to there has to be you
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: have to open your heart, you have to be vulnerable,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: and really you have to be lucky. So it was rough.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Here's what came to mind for me is that you're
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: telling me that men don't change at any age.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I don't think they do. I really don't think they do.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: People have asked me if you and I will tell you,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: he asked me. And people can't believe this, but he
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: asked me, if things didn't work out with her, if
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: he could reach out to me in a month.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not, absolutely not. I will be no one's second choice.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I am not your learning experience. No.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: And then he said, well, could I call you? I've
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: listened to your podcast. You would give such great advice.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Could I call you? And I said, I said, I
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: don't think so, because I don't give dating advice to men.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I thought I was going to date.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Hey, Kathy, do you know what was a really hard
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: lesson for me?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you is a complete sentence, Yeah, you're right, Well
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: thank you is even better.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I try to walk away with grace,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm proud of myself the way I walked away
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: with that. But I think the lesson for me is
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the same lesson for you. And that's why I want
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: to hear about your dating experience lately. I always say,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: listen to what people do, men and women, not what
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: they say. Their actions will tell you who they really are.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And that's what made it hard with this guy. His
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: words and action. I mean, guy can really kiss, you know.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: He had his arms around me even the day that
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: he told me so his actions and his words blide
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: what he said to me, and that was so difficult,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: and I thought, oh boy, men don't change. That's kind
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: of what I thought I'm in. This is something I
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: would have to deal with until I'm lucky enough to
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: meet the right one.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: My gosh, thank you so much for sharing that. And
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I just let me say, like woman to woman, friend, friend,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: someone who cares about you, I'm really sorry that you
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: had to go through that. I there's a million different ways,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and we can run the gamut here of there's a
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: million different ways that he could have handled that stop
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: letting you travel to see him and not tell you
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that was just poor choice, man, or choice, poor choice.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: When you're doing long distance, there has to be this
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: open means of communication before you hop on an airplane
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: to go and see someone. By all means, you're right
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: save someone.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: I have to be honest. If he called me. People
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: have said, if he calls you, you know, would you
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: talk to him. There's a part of me that wishes
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: he would call me because when he said, you know,
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start I'm going to date. I'm going
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: to date more women. Do you know what I said
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: to him? You should. You should date a lot of women,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: and then you're going to realize that I was the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: best woman you met me. You met me quickly and
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: too bad you didn't realize it, which I know sounds pompous, but.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Hey, listen, do you know what I'm going to tell you.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: When he does call, don't answer the phone. There are
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: pieces of us that we have to listen to. Our gut.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: It is literally our soul telling yeah purpose to put
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: us on the right path, and he's not it. Kathy.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: I know, but I thought it was strange d when
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: he said to me when he said, you know, I'm
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: going to date. I can't remember if he asked me
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: if I was dating other men. But I always find
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: that a strange question when men do ask me that,
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: because I when I meet a man i'm interested in,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I want to I want to go down that road
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and see if there's a relationship they're worth developing.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is a question that I'm sitting in. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: am wondering, is that I am casually dating?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry getting flowers from a guy's casual dating.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I want his name. I need his name.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I will not give his name. I will not.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Are you saying that's casual.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: We are friends, we have known each other for some time.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: We're friends of friends. We have decided a few weeks
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: ago that both of us are interested in something more
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: exploring what that is. He is older than me.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Bye, I'm much older.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I think about fifteen years.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: He should be dating me.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, I'll hook up.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I remember. Excuse me? Did we just have the conversation?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: I don't take somebody sloppy seconds.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: No, it's not sloppy seconds. It could be that he
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: is wonderful. He just wasn't right for me and he
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: could be really right for you. I don't see anything
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: wrong with that. What I'm getting at is there is
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: the age difference. I don't make rash decisions, Kathy. I
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: almost think things through obsessively, and most of that comes
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: from trauma. Divorce I have made it very clear has
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: been really, really awful for me. It was very trauadic.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I want to get married again.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Living with someone again really terrifies me. All of those things,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and I realize those are my pieces to carry. And also,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: in the same sentence, I'm telling you that I am
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: open to being with someone and hopefully finding a great
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: love of my life. So what I'm asking you is
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I turned forty four, he's fifty, almost fifty nine. He's
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: like you, Kathy. He sees what he likes and he
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: wants it, and he's not messing around. He would like
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: to be seeing me, he would like to only be
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: taking me out, he would like to only be holding
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: my hand in public.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Have a rule, so I know what he wants, But
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: now I want to know what do you want?
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: At a really hard time with public displays of affection,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: really hard time with that?
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Do you want to date other men? Are you tracted
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: enough to him to close down all other options?
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Here's where I'm scared, because we were
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: friends before. I teeter a very fine line of I
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: don't want to ruin a friendship.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Wait, I have to interrupt you. Think about it this way.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: The person that you want to find, if he starts
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: out being your best friend, that is such a huge
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: component of a great relationship. You've already got that one
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: knocked out of the park. Think of it in a
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: positive way.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I think I have said this multiple times on the
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: podcast Kathy, is that I am a person who leads
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: with fear. I lead with fear. Most of my choices
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: in life. I lead in fear. And because I am
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: really great and overthinking, I can overthink overthinking. I am
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: constantly in a state of like, oh is this too much?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Is it not enough? Is this right? Is it not right?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I cannot live in the moment and just allow someone
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: to come into my life and treat me really great,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: whether it works out in the long run or not.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: I have to constantly be thinking, oh, well if I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: kiss him then moving on to the next stage. What
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: if I'm not ready for the next age? What if
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: I just want to be friends. What if I just
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: think he's just really great friend and I don't find
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: him romantic. What if what if he's fifty eight and
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: he's an old man and I'm not there's the level
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of sexual attraction is not there. I've never dated someone
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: that much older than me. I typically date. Maybe this
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: is my problem. Guys that are younger than me is
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: what I have always done. Okay, so let me lay
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: it out. If for anyone who is listening, rewinds to
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the first episode and I'm telling Ben all of these
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: things that i want. I'm telling Ben, I want someone
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: who shows up for me. I want someone who makes
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: me feel safe. I want someone who dotes on me
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: and really gets to know me and has that emotional intimacy.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: All of these things, right, What if this guy does
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: those things. He has proven over and over it again
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in the last few weeks. He calls when he says
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: he's going to, he texts when he says he's going to,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: He takes me out to dinner. He sent me the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: most beautiful bouquet for my birthday.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, d you put it out in the universe.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: It's happening, and you know what I think this is
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: not that you're asking my opinion, but you know what
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I think it is. You have been beaten up badly
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: in your marriage. Can I just say you deserve this guy.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Let yourself, let yourself enjoy the fact that someone really
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: wants to be with you. Don't sit to question it.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Why me? Why does he like me so much? I
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: don't deserve it? Why me? Because I think that's what
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: you're doing. I'm not a therapist, but you deserve And
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: again this is my age. I've learned that we all
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: deserve kindness and love and good care. And if this
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: guy is checking off your boxes, I would say you
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: are running with fear instead of opening your heart, being
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: vulnerable and say, hey, this is what what I've done
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: before hasn't worked. So this opportunity has come my way
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and here he is, right, I'm going to give him
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: a chance, and if nothing else, d if nothing else,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: he's going to remind you that there's good men out
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: there always, even if he's not the one. But right
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: now you seem like you're in handcuffs, emotional handcuffs. You're afraid.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I am. You know what the vision in my head,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and I've shared this with multiple people. Is that like
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I have my claws in so deep in my own life,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I am I want control so bad that like my
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: knuckles a are white because I cannot. I just cannot
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: let go.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Because your life was out of control. I mean again,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist, but it sounds like during your divorce,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: your life was really out of control. And now you have,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: in your words, a nice clean home to come home to.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: It's your solace, it's your it's your protected place. And
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: you can control your life as much as you can
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: because you don't have to answer to somebody else right now.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And if you let somebody else in, then you're gonna
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: have to. And that's fear. It is.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: It is a lot of fear. I willingly said that
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not denying it.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to encourage you to give him a shot.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I am giving him a shot. I am making no
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: rash decisions whatsoever. I do worry about crossing a line
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and never being able to go back. You know what
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I mean that it will change our friendship forever, and
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: I do worry about that.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Can I just give you one? Let me just again?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: At my age, I have some male friends, none of
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: which I would date. Actually, I've got one very good
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: male friend who we dated and we don't. We dated
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: and he didn't want to date me after you know,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: after a while it didn't work out, but we're still
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: really good friends. So why not try this? Why not
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: see again? If you're if he knows you, he knows
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: already knows your fears, he knows you're if you're good
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: friends with this guy, he knows you already.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: He already brought up the podcast, Kathy, like like, oh,
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: he did well, I listened. I am not a liar.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: That is not something that I am, and anyone that
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: has come in my direction, I make it very clear
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: that I'm doing this like I'm doing podcast It's a
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: great opportunity. I love podcasting, but it's also a great
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: opportunity to meet someone just like you. Right, And he
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: already was like, yeah, I mean I know that you're
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: doing this, but like I'd be lying if I said
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't want you going out with other guys an
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: to watch kissing anybody else. I don't watch you going
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: out with anybody else. What if you fall in love?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: So you didn't answer the question, how do you feel
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: about that? Do you still want to date? Other guys
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: or is that just a defense mechanism if you don't say,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: I'm dating six guys, so none of them are really
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: that important if anything falls off the wagon. So what, Kathy?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I am having so much fun with this, but we've
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: got to take a pause. I think that there's I
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot more to dive in here.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: M