Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 177:29-34. Interest: Business Dealings, Employees; Investor and Managing Partner; Contracts

Transcript

Yoreh De’ah 177:29-34. Interest: Business Dealings, Employees; Investor and Managing Partner; Contracts · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:01
  OK, good morning. We are continuing in Khodishto.
• 0:04
  It's kuf EIN zein Ribis. Hopefully we'll be finishing by
• 0:09
  tomorrow. That's right, the sham today
• 0:12
  we're on kuf EIN zein. Kuf tet is where we're
• 0:16
  continuing kuf tet. OK, just to point out, most of
• 0:21
  the rest of the Simon is more Koshin mishpat than Ribis just
• 0:28
  happens to be. That's the great, that's the
• 0:30
  continuing, a little bit of a continuing halachot, more about
• 0:34
  the whole ASIC issue that we know that's if you make an ASIC,
• 0:38
  I mean make it into it turns into a potential ribis issue of
• 0:43
  halva. So that's where it all comes
• 0:45
  from. OK, Kaftecht.
• 0:48
  Now here's the it's about you have a store, a Moshi Haveru
• 0:52
  Bekhanut. One guy owns a store, the Baal
• 0:55
  Khanut, and he has merchandise and he brings in someone to work
• 0:59
  for him in the in in basically he's like a a worker, a Poel and
• 1:05
  you bring them in to sell your merchandise Litasik But and then
• 1:09
  how did he's not getting a fixed wage per hour?
• 1:12
  Instead it's a percentage and they're going to make they're
• 1:17
  going to share the profits. So the owner hires him basically
• 1:22
  and the Poel, the worker, he he's really, he's a meshuba
• 1:27
  while he's there to work. And I mean, obviously it depends
• 1:32
  on the arrangement, the agreement, but typically now the
• 1:36
  Poel, just like a regular Poel, it has to work there exclusively
• 1:41
  for the owner of the store. He chose him in order to be 100%
• 1:46
  devoted to sell his merchandise. Otherwise he would have hired
• 1:49
  someone else. He wants someone who's going to
• 1:51
  be devoted. So now, so Loya hiloqua O mokhar
• 1:55
  dvarian akharian MI Molotov. So this worker can't, while he's
• 2:00
  doing, while he's working in this store, he can't now start
• 2:05
  selling other stuff from his own money at the same time.
• 2:08
  You can't take his money, you know, the day before, you know
• 2:11
  he's going to go there, buy some merchandise and bring it to the
• 2:14
  store and sell it at the same time.
• 2:16
  Or you can't do business on your, your smartphone while
• 2:21
  you're working as a say again. But it all depends.
• 2:25
  That's, that's exactly what this is.
• 2:26
  This is basically a Geneva Sman issue.
• 2:29
  That's exactly what the whole thing is exactly.
• 2:32
  So it's really the same thing because you have to be 100%
• 2:34
  devoted to your, to the owner. Again, it all depends on the
• 2:39
  Menagamakon and whatever your, you get your brakes, whatever it
• 2:43
  is, it all depends what the agreement is.
• 2:45
  But this is the general, the general halach.
• 2:48
  OK, This is like 9 to five. Yeah, 9:00 to 5:00.
• 2:52
  This is your or whatever, whatever.
• 2:53
  He's there. He's expecting him to work for
• 2:55
  him, whatever there, whatever is to be assumed.
• 2:58
  OK, the iim asakin. But if he did decide to, to, to
• 3:07
  buy something, you know, to bring in his own merchandise to
• 3:11
  sell in the store on the time, on the clock of the owner.
• 3:15
  So the, the halafa is Khetzi Hareva of Baha Hanut.
• 3:20
  So he has, because he's doing it on the owner's time.
• 3:24
  Now we ask to give him half of the profits or whatever,
• 3:28
  whatever their arrangement is, believe it's the same profit,
• 3:31
  the same percentage, whatever they agreed to.
• 3:34
  Now that goes to the Baha Hanut and all their prices on it, the
• 3:41
  all the whoever and then in the previous half, all the arthritis
• 3:47
  is on the ball. Again, this is not a case of
• 3:49
  Iskar ASIC that we had before where it's this is not a there's
• 3:55
  no halva over here. This is no Matt to Matt.
• 3:58
  There's no investing partner or managing partners.
• 4:00
  It's a separate case. You're a Pol, you're hiding, and
• 4:03
  it's 100% have said goes on the owner.
• 4:06
  Let's see if the guy's bringing in his own merchandise.
• 4:08
  He's responsible for his own merchandise.
• 4:10
  He's wasn't supposed to bring it down.
• 4:12
  Even. Though he uses the word yeah,
• 4:15
  yeah, yeah. It's a totally separate case.
• 4:18
  Do we need to add anything? Nope.
• 4:23
  OK, let's go on. Lamad Hanote maala Caveirolit
• 4:30
  Asik. So we'll just going to analyze
• 4:33
  it more after Hanote and Malachaveroli Asik, Alpha P OK,
• 4:38
  so now we're going back to the regular case of Asik.
• 4:41
  You're giving the guy money, your merchandise, and you're
• 4:44
  saying go, go. And we're going to split the
• 4:47
  profits, split the half set and go, go with them.
• 4:51
  So it gives him the money. And so then the halacha is and
• 4:57
  Alpha P Shahezi, Yehuddin Malva, now we know this whole din of
• 5:02
  ASAC or iska that we're talking about, he had Khazal gave it
• 5:07
  like a din or gave it the din of Amalba.
• 5:10
  It's not amalba. We already established amilba,
• 5:13
  we already established that before.
• 5:15
  We already understood this is not a normal case of a Milva.
• 5:19
  And so it's only in Isudharabanam.
• 5:21
  But Khazal gave it a din like a Milva.
• 5:25
  So therefore Eno Yahoo in this case, right, he didn't give him
• 5:30
  a loan to do whatever he wants. It's a book, a loan as you can
• 5:33
  do whatever you want. These are these guys are making
• 5:35
  a business deal. There's an investing and a
• 5:38
  managing partner on one deal. It's not a loan to do whatever
• 5:41
  you want with it. He was given this money or this
• 5:44
  merchandise under specific arrangements, agreements, let's
• 5:48
  say to sell this item or that item.
• 5:51
  Yeah, it depends whatever they agreed to.
• 5:52
  So Eno Yahoo. So you can't you do whatever you
• 5:56
  want with it. Let's keep reading Eno.
• 5:58
  Yakulohotziakhetzi with circle with Asikhetziyev Levad, but
• 6:03
  sorry Caveiro, you can't. OK, so it could mean a couple
• 6:10
  things. Let's see.
• 6:12
  Or the original source comes from and they're showing you.
• 6:14
  But Eno. In the morning.
• 6:18
  So right, So Khazal gave it, right?
• 6:23
  So he, the guy can't use it for whatever he wants himself.
• 6:27
  He can't even buy something else with it that they agree with.
• 6:32
  They're going on to a deal to sell cars and now he's going to
• 6:35
  take his half and I'm going to use it to sell potatoes.
• 6:39
  Whatever the example is, you can't use it or to go on
• 6:43
  vacation. It could be either 1.
• 6:45
  He could think. You also can't split up the 2
• 6:48
  deals and with one purse with your stuff.
• 6:54
  You're going to see this as you go along couple different
• 6:56
  scenarios. You can't use your half for one
• 6:59
  thing and his half for something else.
• 7:04
  Now let's see, let me read this again.
• 7:09
  Eni akalozi akhetzi. Let's circle at Asik bahetzi
• 7:11
  lavala. Sorry calvaro.
• 7:14
  Eni akhetzi chili vani akhetzi chil Piccadon Basin.
• 7:20
  So the first half is talking about I'm going to do 2 separate
• 7:23
  deals and you can look in, in the taz or he he quotes it's
• 7:28
  from Rashi and Tosos. Basically the issue is he, if
• 7:35
  the he's going to do 2 separate deals, you know, there's with
• 7:39
  the malbe, he's going to do whatever he wants and with it be
• 7:41
  cut in half. They're going to stick with what
• 7:43
  they agreed with. So now the this guy who's the
• 7:46
  managing partner, he's going to put more effort into his half
• 7:51
  and he's going to care and make more profit on his half and less
• 7:55
  profit on the other guy's half. So that's a problem and that's
• 7:59
  it's not allowed and they have to split it. 5050 you can't do
• 8:02
  that. It doesn't work.
• 8:03
  Also, this is because the, the risk might be different if you
• 8:07
  start using the Malva half on something that's more risky in
• 8:12
  the opinion of the note taint of the investor.
• 8:14
  So then again, he's also not going to be happy.
• 8:17
  Point is, they have to stick to what they agree with and they
• 8:19
  have to share the profits. OK, then there's different ways
• 8:23
  you can fine tune your examples or what this is referring to.
• 8:27
  But that's the that's the the idea.
• 8:31
  And you can't say I'm only going to use my half for business and
• 8:35
  the other half I decided not to do anything with it, right.
• 8:39
  So only the managing partners are going to profit and then the
• 8:43
  the note tank won't profit anything because he's going to
• 8:45
  say on his half, I just left it and didn't do anything with it.
• 8:48
  You can't do that. Every, whatever penny you spend,
• 8:51
  everything is always from beginning to end is going to be
• 8:53
  5050 and equal. That's the way the that's the
• 8:58
  way this deal works. Do we need to add anything?
• 9:05
  OK, fine, fine let's go on La Medalov.
• 9:13
  La medalov. Meet Asik.
• 9:15
  One second meet Asik yeah, let's go on meet Asik Shamit.
• 9:21
  Now you have an investing partner and you have a managing
• 9:24
  A managing partner. The managing partner is has the
• 9:29
  money, merchandise and let's say they had a deal for whatever a
• 9:34
  year. During that year, at some point
• 9:36
  a managing partner passes away and everything.
• 9:41
  So then what happens the yeh adim shima OT O metaltelingaylo
• 9:47
  Haim zehai ASIC. If you have witnesses that can
• 9:51
  attest to which that this property or money belongs to
• 9:56
  this ASIC and really therefore the Karen and the part of the
• 10:00
  prophet goes to the to the notain to this investing
• 10:04
  partner, whoever it is, you have witnesses.
• 10:07
  So notlan BA al hamamo below Shiva.
• 10:11
  So the investing partner can take it.
• 10:14
  And without a Shiva, there's no Shiva that needs to be made.
• 10:17
  You have two witnesses, the aim Balkhov the loha isha notlum
• 10:22
  Klum makkaren Velo michela greba hanotti.
• 10:27
  So it means basically it means whether it's the orphans or
• 10:34
  inheritors, whether it's Yorshim, the children or the
• 10:37
  wife, whoever it is, the inheritor cannot, this isn't the
• 10:44
  dead person's money, right? This does not belong to the to
• 10:48
  the meet to the managing partner at all.
• 10:51
  Exactly. For whatever it's worth, any
• 10:53
  Balkhove, any issue, you're right.
• 10:54
  Any, any debts cannot come from this money.
• 10:59
  And so again, not from the Karen and not from his portion that
• 11:03
  they that they profited approximately 50% up until now,
• 11:07
  whatever it is because it belongs they didn't if they
• 11:12
  didn't distribute it yet. But that portion of Revox still
• 11:15
  belongs to the to the investing partner.
• 11:19
  And that's doesn't belong to the managing part belongs to the
• 11:21
  business. It doesn't belong to the
• 11:22
  managing partner to use. So therefore it all goes to him.
• 11:26
  That's right. If you have idioms that show
• 11:28
  that now the shock just points out the Adium have to have
• 11:32
  testified if it's a case of yorsum, if it's a if it's a case
• 11:36
  of yorsum of orphans. So then then they had to have
• 11:44
  they had to testify while the he was still alive that that this
• 11:50
  money or merchandise belong to them.
• 11:52
  Because otherwise when there's orphans involved, we don't
• 11:54
  accept Adis after the father passed away.
• 11:58
  Anyways, that's just a side issue that's in the shock
• 12:01
  haggah. The yuhal hanote en lika cola
• 12:05
  iska miyadam alpha pisha dine lokala has mancha katsav imam
• 12:10
  makaga. So this is again from Khoshin
• 12:13
  Mishpat. Anytime you have a deal between
• 12:16
  two partners and then one of them passes away and now the
• 12:21
  your shame take over. So the noting the investing
• 12:25
  partner can say, OK, great deals over.
• 12:27
  Even though this was for a year, the deal was only between me and
• 12:31
  you because I trust you. You know how to run a business.
• 12:33
  You know how to buy and sell your kids.
• 12:36
  I don't know what they know. And so therefore anytime there's
• 12:38
  an ASIC one in the middle, someone dies, you can undo it.
• 12:42
  And and the Barrett have pointed out there, but it's going to be
• 12:45
  obvious and we keep reading that the Yorshim also can end the
• 12:48
  deal at any time. But if the.
• 12:51
  Deal had ended and then he died with the before distribution.
• 12:56
  Then he would they would get. It would be when the time
• 13:00
  distribution arrived. And from the Prophet Yorshim get
• 13:05
  from the their portion of the profit that would have gone to
• 13:08
  the Father. Either way, before or after
• 13:11
  doesn't matter, we can discuss. But they know it says.
• 13:17
  They don't get anything from the no no, everyone gets whatever
• 13:21
  they deserve and everyone. From the.
• 13:29
  They get the right yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:32
  They're each from the profits part of whatever they made until
• 13:36
  now. Part of it went to the noting,
• 13:38
  part of it went to the macabre. Each investing part the each
• 13:41
  partner about their house Can can can be.
• 13:46
  Mostly in the. Profits that were.
• 13:47
  Coming to the disease. Well, sure, whatever.
• 13:50
  It belongs to the Mitasik. They wouldn't.
• 13:51
  Have. To return.
• 13:55
  OK, Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for
• 13:58
  sure. I think that's obvious.
• 13:59
  OK, let's get to lammet that. Natan Hamid Asik.
• 14:06
  Yeah. Natan ahmid Asik matana
• 14:08
  nammataltalin shala Asik O Mahama.
• 14:13
  Now this is in this is not he's not allowed to the meet.
• 14:17
  The managing partner took money, basically stole the money.
• 14:21
  He took money from the ASIC. And he gave it as a gift to
• 14:25
  somebody. Or whatever he sold.
• 14:27
  Something to somebody where he gave it to somebody.
• 14:30
  Now the heavy Bala Mammon, Raya Berura, Shemi Zaha ASIC, If
• 14:36
  you're able to bring the ball, the investing partner brings
• 14:41
  proof that he clear proof that this money that he gave as a
• 14:46
  gift comes it belongs to their business and so therefore it
• 14:49
  really belongs to him. The entire Karen belongs to him
• 14:52
  and part of the prophet belongs to him.
• 14:55
  Mozi miyadam afilu shinauta macabehomatana oh hefsi.
• 15:03
  So then one. So then he even if the managing
• 15:10
  partner gave it to this third person and this third person now
• 15:18
  sells it or gives it or something to a fourth person.
• 15:22
  OK, so now it doesn't matter. Hayab was shelling or destroys
• 15:29
  it. He sells it, gives it away or
• 15:31
  destroys it, correct, It doesn't matter.
• 15:33
  So the third person got got it and then he got rid of it.
• 15:36
  The Macabo Metana from the investing.
• 15:38
  That's The Who got it from the investing part, from the
• 15:42
  managing partner, that's the third person is the macabrel
• 15:45
  Matana. Now the investor has this proof,
• 15:51
  right? And he wants to collect, so he
• 15:53
  deserves it. So somebody has to pay him.
• 15:56
  Kayev Leshalin, somebody has to pay the investing partner the
• 16:01
  part that was giving away. Who pays?
• 16:04
  Either person #2 or person #3 either the managing partner or
• 16:09
  the third partner. So if you read the Taz, it goes
• 16:12
  on the the person, the third person, the person who received
• 16:15
  it from the managing partner. And according to the Shah,
• 16:21
  really the one who's more responsible at first is the
• 16:23
  second one, the managing partner, second person managing
• 16:27
  partner. But if he doesn't have money
• 16:29
  left or he can't pay, then he's then the recipient who got it as
• 16:34
  a gift is responsible to pay him.
• 16:37
  Now there's Taz just points out though that against Khoshin
• 16:40
  Mishbat, if he sells it to a fourth person, then that fourth
• 16:46
  person is he is doesn't has nothing to do with it.
• 16:48
  He's too far removed and he's not responsible at all to pay.
• 16:52
  OK, let's go on. I think we have a little more
• 16:54
  time. Let's go to Ronald Gilman.
• 16:58
  OK, Misha Natona havera isca. A person gave at one time a lump
• 17:06
  sum of money or merchandise and they went into an isca.
• 17:10
  But then the Khatav Alea Schnee start, but he turned it into.
• 17:16
  They made two separate contracts and basically they divided the
• 17:20
  money or the merchandise half for each contract.
• 17:25
  So it's two separate deals even though you gave them?
• 17:29
  No, no, no, it's two. Basically turned it into two
• 17:32
  Iscas. They're two different
• 17:34
  businesses. Half the money, I want you to go
• 17:36
  sell potatoes. Half the money I want you to go
• 17:39
  sell watches. And it's 2 separate contracts.
• 17:43
  So then ain't star Ekhad Meshubad le Cabrero?
• 17:49
  Each star is separate from each other and each isca now becomes
• 17:52
  separate from right. You, you follow the star Shi
• 17:55
  mayab efadrava Obashini has it Shiyamalua Karen viharka one
• 18:02
  second in Star efad mishuba la cabrero.
• 18:07
  It's not this way. You don't do this.
• 18:10
  You can't do this right? It becomes 2 separate deals,
• 18:15
  right? So one deal might do great and
• 18:17
  one deal might go South. So you don't, you know, combine
• 18:21
  the Karen and the the prophets together.
• 18:24
  You don't do Shimalua Karen, Ella, what do you do?
• 18:30
  Yahuku kostar lafi Tana. Every star has its own
• 18:35
  condition. It's whatever it says in there
• 18:37
  and it's its own deal. But you not tell no state
• 18:40
  Eastcote Mikhatra and Mish Star. Now let's say two different
• 18:46
  days, you gave him two different amounts of money.
• 18:48
  Just saying, right, two guys, same two partners.
• 18:51
  You gave him two amounts of money on different days.
• 18:54
  But then you write one star for the whole amount together.
• 18:58
  So it becomes one deal and with what the part that you got
• 19:06
  first, you made profit and you lost money from the second batch
• 19:10
  of merchandise he gave you. It doesn't matter.
• 19:12
  It's all one deal. It's all one contract.
• 19:15
  So then Yimlua Karen, Tehila, you first figure out how you, if
• 19:20
  there, if there's any loss, you fill, you take care of that from
• 19:23
  the rebec of the other one, fill that in to the to the principle
• 19:27
  of the other one Tehila. And then so all the care and all
• 19:31
  the principles taken, taken care for yah karka Yahlukluhan motar.
• 19:37
  And then whatever leftover, that's what you divide and
• 19:40
  that's what you share. Let's finish on the let's do on
• 19:43
  the Dalek, Hamakabo Isco Machavera.
• 19:50
  A person accepts merchandise from his friend and then he
• 19:53
  loses it, right? He loses parts of the Karen.
• 19:57
  OK, Velo hodil. OK, this is important.
• 20:01
  And he doesn't tell him that he lost part of the Karen.
• 20:03
  And then he goes, he continues his money, the business, but he
• 20:09
  actually puts in some of his own money into the business to keep
• 20:14
  it going from his own pocket without telling the investing
• 20:18
  partner. OK, so then.
• 20:27
  So then he can't say, well, listen, you're going to lose
• 20:30
  more because originally the deal was going bad and then I put in
• 20:35
  money. So at the point when the deal
• 20:37
  with when the business was going down, we're going to count that
• 20:41
  as your losses and then everything else afterwards is
• 20:44
  profit. So I'm going to take half of it.
• 20:46
  You can't do that. But you didn't tell him.
• 20:48
  And so the ASIC was continuing as normal.
• 20:51
  And as we learned, when you're doing with these Asic's right
• 20:54
  depends of course on your details.
• 20:57
  How you make a contract with normal conditions is everything
• 21:00
  is always 5050 and everything is all there.
• 21:02
  You take care of all the Karen 1st and the principal first
• 21:07
  elite Malaya Karen MI Raba first you have to fill in the Karen
• 21:11
  from the Raba so the investing partner doesn't lose as much.
• 21:15
  And then you get obviously he's going to both of them are going
• 21:20
  to get the Karen back. And then you worry about
• 21:23
  whatever is leftover for profit Haggah.
• 21:25
  But the God points out Rama, the dafka Shiloh Hodil.
• 21:29
  That's if you didn't tell him. But in the middle of AIM Hodil.
• 21:35
  But you're allowed to tell him. In the middle of the business
• 21:37
  deal, you're saying, listen, listen, the deal's not going so
• 21:40
  good. We're losing money.
• 21:42
  I'm basically going to stop the deal right now.
• 21:44
  And if you want, we're going to continue and I'm going to put in
• 21:47
  more money or you're going to whatever.
• 21:49
  I'll put in money however you want to do with it.
• 21:52
  But the profits are now going to be based on going forward.
• 21:56
  Is that OK? The Rama says you're allowed to.
• 22:03
  He can say, you know what, we're starting from scratch now, right
• 22:06
  after they lost money. Now he wants to start from
• 22:08
  scratch. Not so nice, but it's 100%
• 22:11
  permitted because really Yahoo Lahsarbo Ahmad Shahirza, because
• 22:18
  Allah is the managing partners allowed to quit whenever he
• 22:21
  wants. He can quit right now and walk
• 22:23
  away from the whole deal that they lost money and that's it.
• 22:27
  The fact that he's now continuing because he told them
• 22:29
  and told them I'm now continuing as a new deal.
• 22:32
  That's what. So then it's 100% permitted.
• 22:35
  Doesn't look so good. This is true.
• 22:36
  Even if the managed. Department did not put in any of
• 22:40
  his own right, even if he didn't add any of his own money.
• 22:42
  They just start from scratch and all the profit from what's from
• 22:45
  the smaller principle that's left.
• 22:47
  And now they split it 5050 on the Kabul Iskarnote mas Minareva
• 22:52
  Tehila. And again, it depends on the
• 22:55
  protein over here. But just in general, first you
• 22:58
  take from the taxes. If you know there are taxes from
• 23:01
  the prophet before you, and then you split it up.
• 23:05
  It's cleaner that way because really taxes come out from the
• 23:09
  profits. But they could make it a
• 23:16
  stipulation and they just take they share the profits whenever
• 23:19
  they want. Each one takes his profit.
• 23:21
  Oshe odio lika helko minareva or they tell each other the AAS
• 23:25
  ENATA nahar karmas. But if he.
• 23:29
  But then later on, if they have to pay taxes, we just has to be
• 23:32
  calculated that it's from the hefsid.
• 23:35
  OK, I think we're going to stop. Is there anything I need to add?
• 23:39
  No. OK, we'll stop.