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Lean Into Legacy -Spiritual Combat_ Fighting the Vices of the 21st Century with Andrew Papke · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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Lean Into Legacy. Hey, everyone, and welcome to
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Lean Into Legacy with JJ and my special guest Andrew Papke.
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Welcome. Hi, Jen, how you doing?
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I'm so good, man. You know, on this show, Andrew,
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I'd love to talk about the different ways that we can live
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a better life, lead with more purpose and impact, and love the
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people around us in a way that leads to leaving a legacy.
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And I'm so excited to have you on the show for our viewers.
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Welcome to the show. I'd love to see, you know, type
1:10
in the chat where you're listening from and who's there.
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Andrew? I have some amazing friends and
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just great people that TuneIn and it's really fun to see what
1:21
they have to say and contribute to the conversation.
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But Andrew Papke, for those of you who don't know and you're
1:29
soon to know, you are in for a treat.
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Andrew is He spent five years in the Marine Corps, decided he
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needed a little break, and then came back to the better force.
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No, I'm just kidding. You know I love you, Marines.
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I. Love you.
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But then took a break and then came back and did six years in
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the Army. And I'm so thankful to have
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Andrew as a friend, a mentor every once in a while and, and
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just somebody that I feel comfortable call my battle buddy
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because I know he will show up. Him and his beautiful wife, CC
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will show up when I need them. Andrew is also a loving father
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and husband, and he's a Christian.
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And I'm so excited. Andrew, we're going to talk
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about your story today and then we're going to talk about
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combat. And I know everybody's like,
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yeah, this is a veteran show. I'm sure they're going to talk
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about combat now. We're going to talk about
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spiritual combat. What?
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Every single one of us. You know, it doesn't matter what
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your faith is. It is, it is the reality of our
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existence is that we are living in one world and there's a
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spiritual realm going on on top of it.
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So, Andrew, I'd love for you to just kick us off with where you
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think it's most important to start with your story.
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Well, thank you so much, Jen, and it is a pleasure to be a
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part of this operation that you have going on.
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And hi to everybody listening at home.
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And yeah, so I, I suppose I can start at the beginning.
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So I grew up in a small town in Illinois, like interspersed
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amongst the the cornfields in the forest.
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I graduated out of a, a high school class of 42 people, just
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to give everybody an idea of how, how small it was.
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And so I in, in 2005, I ended up enlisting in, in the Marine
3:31
Corps. And at the time I just kind of
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looked at it like a all expenses paid trip to, to San Diego.
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You know, it seemed like it it, it seemed like a good
3:40
opportunity to, to serve the country and to get out of that
3:44
small town and see what the world has to offer.
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And so it, it, it all kind of happened serendipitously, I
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guess you could say. I didn't really know what it was
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that I wanted, you know, out of life or what I wanted to
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accomplish. So when I when I was in the
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recruiter's office, you know, my idea of the Marine Corps was a
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machine gunner, A Rifleman, A reconnaissance man.
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And you know, at 17 years old, my parents were like, if you
4:09
want us to sign these papers, you need to, you need to re
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evaluate that plan. And so the recruiter just kind
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of asked me like, what, what are your interests?
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Like, what, what do you like doing?
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And my mom is Cuban. So Spanish was my second
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language. And at the time I was like, I
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like languages. And so it just so happened that
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I was, I was looking at this, you know, this recruiters binder
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and it said, you know, cryptologic linguist Monterey,
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CA MOS school is between 6 and 18 months long.
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And I was like, yeah, that, that sounds, that sounds like the
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move for me. So, so I ended up going through
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boot camp and Marine combat training and then spend some
4:47
time at the Defense Language Institute where I learned
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Russian, which at the time was, I was like, why am I learning
4:55
Russian? You're just going to send me to
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Iraq or Afghanistan? Like there's really no, no point
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in me learning this language. And, and as, as we will tie into
5:05
the story, it actually, it actually came into play later.
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So, so I ended up graduating language school and then I got
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stationed in Camp Lejeune, NC. From there I did 2 overseas
5:16
deployments and the the first deployment that I did, I ended
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up getting scooped up for a counter piracy mission.
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So at the time there was a Ukrainian vessel, it's called
5:27
the MV Faina. It had been hijacked by Somali
5:31
pirates and it had 33 T 72 tanks on board.
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And so being that I was, I was deployed in the region at that
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time, we were following the situation very closely.
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And they were held hostage for about four, 4 1/2 months.
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And when we knew that they were going to be, they were going to
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be ransomed and released. They needed two Russian
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linguists that, you know, had passed their, their language
5:52
proficiency test and happened to be in the region.
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So at 21 years old, as a new E5 in the Marine Corps, I got
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scooped up to go on this, on this mission, which took me to
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Mombasa, Kenya. So that that ended up kind of re
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like restructuring the entire way that I looked about life.
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I had such an amazing time in Kenya.
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So I ended up, I ended up coming back from that deployment.
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I got slated as a team leader to go to Iraq.
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And then at that point I started working with one of our civilian
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linguist who is from South Sudan.
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And she ended up, you know, she asked me like, what are, what
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are your plans when you get out of the Marine Corps?
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And I said, I'm just packing a backpack and I'm running away to
6:33
Kenya. And so she, she, she kind of
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thought that was funny. And she said, I have a sister
6:38
who lives in Nairobi. Like maybe she'll, she'll help
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you out. So by the time I, while I was
6:44
still in Iraq, I ended up creating a connection in Kenya
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that had agreed to pick me up from the airport and give me a
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place to stay. And so I, I got back from Iraq
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in early 2/20/10. And, and then I got out of the
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Marine Corps in July of 2010. So three months later, the 10th
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of October, 2010, 10/10/10, I touched down in Kenya and I
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didn't know a soul. I had no idea what I was, what I
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was doing, you know, I just knew that I'm, you know, I'm out of
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the Marine Corps. I'm, I'm not on active duty
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anymore. Let me just, let me just see
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where life takes me. And, and so at that point I, I
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was, I was just kind of freelancing and my, my host
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family took me to a university there in Nairobi.
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And it was a beautiful campus. You know, the, the staff was
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lovely. Like I, I really fell in love
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with it. And I looked it up online and
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it's the only American University that is covered by
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the GI Bill in Kenya. So I was like, that seems like a
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sign, you know, so I, I applied, I got accepted, I enrolled and
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then all of a sudden I had a greater purpose.
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You know, I had a new mission to to be to be pursuing in Kenya.
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So at first week of school, orientation week, I mean, it was
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probably like day 2 or day three in an auditorium full of people,
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I see this most beautiful, amazing, shining, you know, girl
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across the auditorium of hundreds of new incoming
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students. And I said to the one person
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that I, that I knew at the time, you know, I said, I'm, I'm going
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to marry that girl. And now, I mean, Fast forward
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over 15 years later, we, we are in fact married and, and have
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two beautiful babies. But, and Jen, jump in at any
8:37
time if I'm, if I'm rattling on too much, but so, so, yeah, so,
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so once, once now CC and I met and I'm enrolled in class.
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Then I've been telling people so much like, oh, I'll be back in
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six months or whatever. And then it was like, he's never
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coming back now, like this guy is, this guy is definitely in it
8:57
for the long haul. So we yeah, yeah, jump in.
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Sure. You know, it's no clue, no, no
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secret that we're going to be talking about God and faith on
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this podcast. So I love the comment that you
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made about Russian. Like, why am I learning Russian?
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And I want to ask our listeners out there, how many times have
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you had a plan for yourself that made perfect sense?
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And you're like, I'm smart. I got this.
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All that needs to happen is you know ABC and then life throws
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X912 at you. You know.
9:38
Free giraffe snake. Like what?
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And, And I'm just curious, Andrew, looking back, you know
9:47
#1 your experience and the moment you're like, why am I
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learning Russian especially, you know, back then, the war was
9:55
heavy. And so we're all like, you know,
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we need to be prepared for jobs that are going to go right into
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the fight. So I can understand why you were
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like Russian. And then also, I think about how
10:07
everything lined up so perfectly for you to meet CC.
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What are your thoughts on that, on God's plan, and what you've
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learned over the years about God's plan?
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Yeah, I mean, if if anything, it's like when when we get when
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we get so like honed in on what it is that we want with
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hindsight, you know, as as years go by, you gain a little bit of
10:31
wisdom and experience. You look back and you say like,
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oh, everything definitely happened for a reason.
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You know, as a 19 year old Marine who you know, I'm like, I
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joined to go to war. Like why am I doing this?
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Why am I sitting in this classroom for this language that
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doesn't matter. And then just to, just to be
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able to like get out of the Marine Corps and then all of a
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sudden like look back and realize like, of course I had to
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learn Russian because that's what got me to Kenya.
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That's what got me on this really cool mission.
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You know, like I of course got to go do the, the Iraq
11:01
experience and I got the Iraq deployment.
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So I got to do, you know, my job in, in a, in a combat situation.
11:06
But you know, like what, as a, as a 21 year old, you know, E5
11:10
in the Marine Corps, like to all of a sudden find myself like,
11:14
you know, climbing up this like rope ladder, you know, this side
11:17
of this vessel that's been held hostage, you know, for nearly
11:21
five months. Like at the time it was just
11:23
like, oh, I'm doing my job. But then, you know, years later,
11:26
it's like, that was cool. You know, like that was a, a
11:29
worldwide, like international incident.
11:31
You know, that that was really like a a significant, you know,
11:34
kind of piece of history. For reference, most people have
11:37
seen the movie Captain Phillips, you know, with Tom Hanks.
11:41
This predated Captain Phillips. So this this was the first
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successful hijacking for ransom that gave them the blueprint
11:47
that like, we can start hijacking these vessels and we
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can we can get ransom money for it.
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So it was an interesting. Yeah, yeah.
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I've got you here. And and for all of our
11:57
listeners, I don't know how how long the show's going to go
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because we've got some extenuating circumstances that
12:04
might pop up, IE Andrew's beautiful babies.
12:08
But while I have you, we got to talk about this man, because I
12:13
haven't heard the story in four years.
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Yeah, it. Is a thrilling story, so just
12:19
give us a little bit of the good stuff.
12:21
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it we, we had, we had left in
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August of 2008. And if, if my memory serves in,
12:29
in September of that year was when this vessel was, was
12:32
hijacked. So we were, we were keeping
12:35
really close tabs on it. And, and as a 19 year old in
12:39
language school in the Marine Corps, I'm thinking, why am I to
12:41
learn in Russian? You know, we're, we're not at
12:42
war with Russia, but you know, like it was a pretty, pretty
12:45
short sighted, you know, mentality.
12:47
It's like, I mean, this illegal weapons transfer basically was,
12:51
was being facilitated. It was a Ukrainian vessel that
12:54
was flying under the flag of Belize.
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So the crew was primarily Ukrainian.
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I think they had one Latvian and the, the Russian and the, the
13:02
captain in the first mate were Russian.
13:04
So they were, they were all Russian speakers and what, what
13:08
the shipment was, was a bunch of weapons and, and tanks that was
13:12
going to be passed through Kenya to South Sudan in violation of
13:17
the comprehensive peace agreement that was signed
13:20
between North Sudan and South Sudan because they had been, you
13:23
know, experiencing decades of civil war.
13:25
So the comprehensive peace agreement had been signed saying
13:28
like neither military was going to, you know, be proliferating.
13:31
They weren't going to be building up any, any sense of
13:33
armament against each other. They, they were going to have
13:36
like a ceasefire until they can figure out diplomatically the,
13:39
the situation. So this, this shipment that was,
13:42
you know, being facilitated through Kenya going to South
13:45
Sudan was like a really big deal.
13:47
And then the fact that it got hijacked and then nothing could
13:51
be kept under wraps at that point was, was pretty wild.
13:54
And as as far as the hijacking went, the, the captain died of I
13:59
think a heart attack like right away.
14:02
So for, for the crew, it was like extremely traumatic.
14:06
And, and by the time we came in, so, so they grabbed me and one
14:10
other Russian linguist, one of the Marine, he was a, he was a
14:12
corporal. He's at E4 and we were, we were
14:16
doing counter piracy at the time off of the USS San Antonio.
14:19
They flew us to Bahrain so that we could do like all of our
14:21
Intel, you know, briefings and stuff and get our, get our
14:24
translations ready. And then we flew into Mombasa.
14:27
And then we had to wait until the vessel, which was in really
14:30
rough shape, was close enough that we could do 2 trips by
14:34
helicopter for gear and personnel without having to
14:37
refuel. So this vessel is moving like at
14:40
a snail's pace, you know, coming, coming to Kenya.
14:42
So at that point, that was when I got to like, experience a
14:45
little bit of Kenyan life, you know.
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And just for context, Obama had just been, you know, inaugurated
14:50
a couple weeks prior. His father is from Kenya.
14:53
So to be an American in Kenya at that time, there was like such a
14:57
sense of camaraderie of like, you know, appreciation.
15:00
And so I was like, where are you from, America, Obama, You know,
15:04
like you're our brother. Like everybody was just like
15:07
that. The vibes were vibing, you know,
15:09
as the kids say these days. And so I had such an amazing, I
15:13
had such an amazing experience in Kenya once the ship got
15:17
close. And then it was like it was go
15:18
time, you know, now I'm on this ship that the the ventilation
15:23
didn't work. So the air is hot, it's muggy,
15:25
it's stale. We brought them, you know,
15:28
cartoons of cigarettes and some coffee.
15:30
So they're like chain smoking. I've never been a smoker.
15:33
And I'm getting like all the second hand smoke.
15:35
My eyes are burning, I'm pouring sweat.
15:37
They're just giving me like this black coffee with a lot of
15:40
sugar, you know, So I'm like really caffeinated.
15:42
I'm pouring sweat down onto my notebook as I'm like writing
15:45
half in Russian, half in English.
15:47
They're speaking to me in Russian and my brain is still
15:49
thinking and of like Russian and English, they're correcting each
15:53
other. So like 1 is saying this is what
15:55
happened and then the other one is jumping in and saying, no,
15:57
this is what happened. So it was just like chaos, like
16:00
to the highest order. I'm trying to like, you know,
16:02
keep myself balanced and do my job.
16:05
And, and so we ended up being on that, on that ship for probably
16:09
about 12 or 13 hours. And, and by the end of it, I
16:13
mean, we were the first Russian speakers that this crew had
16:16
spoken to that wasn't each other, you know, and they were
16:19
telling me about how they're at some points they were at each
16:21
other's throats, you know, like they were in captivity, they
16:24
were stressed out. They were making calls to home.
16:26
And then, you know, the, the their, their captors were
16:29
telling their family members that they were going to be
16:31
executed if they didn't pay the ransom.
16:33
It was really, really a rough situation.
16:35
And, and being able to see like the, the trauma that this crew
16:38
had gone through and for them to tell me like, you're the first
16:41
person I can speak to that's not one of these guys.
16:44
Like it was, it was really, really a powerful moment.
16:47
And like by, by the end of it, you know, like these guys are
16:50
like sitting with their arm around me.
16:52
You know, they're like calling me by my Russian name.
16:54
They're calling me Anton. You know, we're giving each
16:56
other like heartfelt hugs. And it was, it was really AI
17:01
mean. I, I, I couldn't even imagine as
17:04
a 19 year old in language school that I would get that sort of
17:09
opportunity. So back to your original
17:11
question, that was kind of the long winded segue is trusting in
17:16
God's plan. Yeah, And actually, Andrew, like
17:19
leaning into that little bit more.
17:21
If there's somebody listening right now that is in the midst
17:25
of being directed a certain way, or life is just leading them a
17:29
certain way and it's not according to their plan, what
17:32
advice would you have for them? I, I, I would say honestly, just
17:36
just have, have faith in, in God, whatever it is that you
17:40
ascribe to as God, have faith in, in God's plan, You know,
17:43
because for, for us, you know, everybody says man plans and God
17:47
laughs. Like we can plan as much as we
17:49
want. And when something doesn't go
17:50
our way, when there's a wrench thrown in our gears, when, when
17:53
something kind of like diverts us off course, it is all part of
17:56
a greater plan. It is meant to, it is meant for
17:59
you to learn something or to test your faith or, or to find
18:02
yourself. Like in that moment when you're
18:03
asking why, stop asking why, Like, why me?
18:06
Why is this happening? And, and start asking like, what
18:09
is it that you want for me? What is it that you want me to
18:12
do? What am I supposed to learn from
18:13
this? And then it, it, it becomes less
18:15
accusatory, you know, like, why is this happening instead?
18:19
It's OK, this is happening. I accept it.
18:21
What do I need to learn? What do I need to do?
18:24
Yeah, Jump in. Yeah.
18:25
Share. With you, Andrew.
18:26
So I am an executive coach and one of the things that, you
18:30
know, was really emphasized in our training is that we are not
18:35
like you really want to avoid why questions because when
18:40
you're talking to a client or a friend or just anybody, when you
18:44
ask them, well, why did you do that there?
18:47
There just isn't an inherent like judgment.
18:51
Yeah. Accusation.
18:53
Right. Like if you're like God, why?
18:56
It's like, well first of all, you may never find out what the
18:59
why is. Right, not.
19:01
The important thing, the why is in the past, right?
19:04
Or the the why is you can't control the why.
19:08
You're not going to get anything from, you know, finding out.
19:12
So stop putting your energy into the why.
19:14
And again, as you know, as a trained coach, we're taught.
19:19
Ask what? Yes.
19:21
Yes, you said. What do you think you're
19:23
supposed to learn from this? What can you do differently to
19:27
improve your situation? You know the what questions?
19:30
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And, and I, I, I do tend to
19:34
think that with, with time, like I said before, with time, with
19:38
experience, gaining a little bit of wisdom, everything kind of
19:41
falls into place. And then you can look back and
19:43
say like, oh, so that's why that happened.
19:44
You know, like now I have this beautiful wife.
19:46
I lived in Kenya for six years, you know, like I have this, you
19:49
know, this, this amazing connection to this, you know,
19:53
this, this foreign soil. And, and now everything with,
19:56
with, with hindsight, it's like, oh, OK, while I was sitting
19:59
there young and inexperienced, you know, and, and, and arrogant
20:03
and I'm, I'm a Marine, I'm this, that, you know, like it, it was,
20:07
it was really more of that accusatory, like, why is this
20:10
happening? You know and and.
20:12
Now it's like, OK, I, I don't ever need to ask why anymore.
20:15
Like now I can see with 2020 clear, crystal clear vision.
20:18
Like, OK, that was all part of the plan.
20:21
And, and, and that could be difficult, you know, to, to kind
20:23
of fall back on that sometimes, you know, because it's, it's not
20:28
always easy to just say like, OK, this, this hardship that I'm
20:31
going through, you know, it, it could be an illness of a loved
20:34
1, you know, or a loss of a job or something like it.
20:38
It could be anything that, you know, that, that fits this mold.
20:41
And it really is difficult to say like, OK, what am I supposed
20:44
to take from this? And for me as a Christian, like
20:46
that's, that's where God really comes in.
20:48
You know, that's, that's when you need to say, it's not, it's
20:51
not my will, it's thy will. Let me, let me just give it up
20:53
to you and whatever it is that you have in store for me, let my
20:56
work be righteous. Let me ACT, Let, let, let me
20:59
think, act and speak in a way that pleases you.
21:02
So it's, it's not, not always easy, but that's why Christ
21:05
said, you know, take up your cross and follow me.
21:07
Everybody has a cross. Like you're not going to, you're
21:09
not going to ever escape that. So it, it, it really is part of
21:13
the journey and, and, and part of the, the learning and the
21:15
healing process is, is kind of, you know, finding, finding
21:18
yourself content with whatever it is that life throws at you
21:21
and then figuring out what it is that you're supposed to learn
21:23
and how you're supposed to overcome that obstacle.
21:26
I love that Andrew and for us older more.
21:30
Wise, distinguished. You know, individuals, I think
21:36
it's easier for us sometimes because we, you know, we're both
21:41
military intelligence and so we were trained to study patterns.
21:45
And I think a lot of people, even if they don't know, they do
21:50
it. You know, it is a way that the
21:53
human mind operates in order to identify threats.
21:56
So whether you know it or not, people are inherently good at
22:00
picking up patterns. And so I would say does you know
22:03
someone in their 40s, you can look back over your life and see
22:08
that even in the worst of times, it, it all ended up coming full
22:15
circle, you know, and I would say if you have an example of
22:19
something that didn't full come full circle, wait a little bit
22:22
longer. And I just want to encourage, if
22:26
there's any younger individuals listening, like I know you don't
22:31
have as much data, but I promise you if you stay in the game and
22:40
you ask those what questions you're, you're going to find out
22:45
some incredible things about God's plan for you.
22:47
A. 100 percent, 100% and, and honestly, the I, I, I think for
22:54
us as people, you know, like we, we want to know, like the
22:56
unknown is what, what brings on that fear, You know, like we,
23:00
and especially now, you know, it's like the instant
23:02
gratification is, is what we seek right now, Like we want
23:06
answers right now. And everything happens to be
23:08
like a slow burn, like a slow cook process, you know, so it's,
23:12
it's just finding, finding that ability to just kind of like
23:15
bring yourself down and say, OK, this is what I'm, this is what
23:18
I'm dealing with. Clear heads prevail.
23:19
Let me, let me just take a few steps back and accept what's
23:23
what's happening right in front of me and figure out the best
23:26
way forward, right in a, in a way, in a way you know that that
23:28
pleases God from a, from a Christian world view.
23:31
Absolutely. And I just want to highlight
23:35
Andrew. This is my friend Rush.
23:38
He is an incredible talent, has written some of the most
23:42
powerful songs. He is also a prior military,
23:48
just a complete badass, has his own podcast where he's hosted
23:52
some incredible people. And I am just so thankful Rush
23:56
for you to show up. And you know, this is for me.
24:00
I feel like Rush showed up at the exact right time because,
24:04
you know, some of those times when I was asking that question,
24:08
why, God, why? Why am I going through this?
24:11
Because trust me, you know, even though I've learned to ask the
24:14
what questions, the why and, and, and I've stayed in that
24:18
depression, that anger, shame, because I continue to ask the
24:24
why questions. But let me tell you this man
24:26
Rush, there's something so special about, you know, people
24:30
that serve and and I think we just and I don't even want to
24:34
say military because there's first responders, you know.
24:36
There's people in. Nonprofits, but people that have
24:39
a heart to serve. It's like we know our people and
24:43
we take care of our people. And Rush was one of those
24:45
people. When I came to Texas and was
24:48
struggling, I was in it. Rush, you know, offered me a
24:53
hand and, and help pull me up. And so Rush, I'm I'm so honored
24:57
to see you on here today. Thank you.
25:00
That's beautiful. Yeah.
25:03
So back to our our discussion though.
25:06
Yes, Yeah. Tell me more, Andrew.
25:11
So here, let's say, I suppose what we left off was, was me, me
25:17
being in Kenya. And, and now, now that we've
25:20
kind of talked about like the, the spiritual elements and you
25:22
know, we're, we're going to get into touching on spiritual
25:24
warfare for context, you know, I was, I was raised kind of, I
25:29
call it like pseudo Catholic. And then, you know, I just
25:32
started going to like, you know, different churches in high
25:34
school or like in boot camp, you know, the, the first Sunday,
25:37
like having to go to a service of not getting yelled at.
25:40
I'm like, Oh, this is, this is my place.
25:43
But by the time, by the time I was, I was getting out of the
25:46
Marine Corps, I was, I was like a full on atheist.
25:48
Like I was, I was kind of mad at God at that time.
25:51
And I was, I was looking at like the state of the world and you
25:54
know, everything around me and I was just like, oh man, I don't,
25:57
I don't think a God would do this.
25:58
You know, like I don't think a good and loving God would do
26:00
this to us. So by the time I, I started in
26:04
college, I, I was a self identified atheist.
26:08
And throughout the course of, you know, my degree is in
26:11
psychology. My minor was in, you know, the
26:12
bulk of it was in philosophy. So I was kind of studying like
26:16
Eastern religions and I'm studying psychology and I'm, I'm
26:19
getting, you know, more into like Eastern philosophy and yoga
26:22
philosophy and stuff like that and Buddhism and all these
26:25
things. And I kind of like softened up,
26:28
you know, to the point where I'm like, I had enough experiences
26:30
where I'm like, OK, I can't say that God doesn't exist.
26:32
Like that's, that's not I, I, I, I feel like I've had so many
26:36
experiences that suggested otherwise, that cannot be
26:39
measured by science, that like there is something out there
26:41
that's higher than us, that connects us.
26:44
So I, I was kind of on this, again, with hindsight, I was on
26:47
this spiritual path where I was like trying to seek, seek out
26:51
what God really is. And, and so we, we graduated in
26:55
2014. We took some time and went to,
26:59
went to India and spent about a month out in India in the
27:02
mountains. And by the time I came back, I
27:05
was like, OK, I'm, I'm a believer again, you know, like,
27:08
I don't know exactly what it is, but I'm, I'm definitely in the
27:11
camp where I'm, I'm no longer an atheist.
27:13
Like God definitely exists. And, and then we ended up, we
27:17
ended up moving to Mombasa. So, so now it was back like kind
27:20
of full circle. Like Mombasa was the 1st place
27:22
that I went to in Kenya. And so CC and I moved to, to
27:26
Mombasa and we spent a couple years there and I was still
27:29
seeking, I got back into reading the Bible, you know, I was
27:33
praying everyday. I was, I was, I was trying to
27:35
like figure out what's what. And then, and then I ended up
27:38
like diving into Islam and, and really, you know, kind of kind
27:42
of getting like a front row view of, of what Islam is all about.
27:45
And so I was, I actually was a practicing Muslim for nearly a
27:49
decade for, for quite some time. And then during that time I
27:54
wanted, I wanted the ability to bring CC to the US.
27:57
And so I had started the process of applying for her visa and by,
28:02
you know, as I'm putting together the application, you
28:05
know, the State Department is kind of like, you don't have AUS
28:08
address, you don't have AUS phone number.
28:10
Like you haven't lived in the US for the last six years.
28:13
Like we don't really have any kind of history, credit history
28:16
to pull on you. I never had a credit card in the
28:18
Marine Corps. You know, it's like I, I, you
28:21
know, couldn't really demonstrate that I was able to
28:24
sponsor this young lady to come to the US.
28:27
So at that time it was kind of kind of time to face the music.
28:31
Like I have to move back to the USI have to have AUS based job,
28:34
like I have to have AUS address. So at the tail end of 2016,
28:39
October 2016 was when I came back to the US and I got a job
28:43
through a friend working in social services.
28:46
And you know, for, I mean, for reference, when I left the US it
28:51
was October of 2010. When I came back, it was October
28:53
2016. A lot changes over six years,
28:56
you know, so like reverse culture shock is a real thing.
28:59
Like it was, it was hard to adjust to life in the US in a
29:03
new, you know, state a new climate.
29:06
Like I did not have clothes for the winter.
29:09
I was away from my wife. Like it was, it was a really
29:12
tough time. And, and I I was really kind of
29:15
struggling with that reintegration process.
29:18
And at the time, what made me feel like me was Brazilian Jiu
29:23
Jitsu. So I found a gym where I could
29:25
go and I could be training, you know, multiple times a week.
29:28
And then I, I got a job teaching yoga because I was a yoga
29:31
teacher. And, and so, you know, I, I was
29:33
finding more purpose and more community.
29:36
And, you know, I was, I was active.
29:38
I was, I was feeling a lot more like myself, like I could, I can
29:41
handle anything. My truck that had been, you
29:43
know, lying dormant, you know, for six years, I had to dump a
29:46
bunch of money into it to get back up and running.
29:49
I was going through the immigration process to bring my
29:51
wife. So it was, it was a tough, it
29:53
was a tough time adapting back to life in the US.
29:57
But after about a little over a year, we, we finally got C CS
30:01
visa. So we were reunited.
30:04
And then with, with enough time, you know, I was just feeling
30:07
like, man, I, I just don't feel like a sense of fulfilment, like
30:12
a sense of motivation. And, you know, at the time, all
30:15
I knew of adult life in America was the, the Marine Corps.
30:19
So I told Cece, you know, she had been in the US maybe like at
30:23
this point, maybe maybe about a year and some change.
30:28
I told her, Hey, I'm thinking about going back on active duty.
30:30
It's like I, I need motivation. I need some like if I look back
30:34
and regret, you know, not being able to do it when I, when I'm
30:37
still, you know, in my prime, I'm just going to I, I don't
30:40
want to live with regret. So when I told her that, she
30:43
said, OK, well, if you're going to join, I'm going to join.
30:45
So we ended up, we ended up enlisting in the Army together
30:49
and anyway, I got. An.
30:50
Interview Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:54
Why didn't you go back to the Marine Corps?
30:57
Too many tattoos. Too many tattoos.
31:00
Yeah, Yeah, that was I have. Gone back to the Marine.
31:04
Corps I, I actually talked to a recruiter and, and, and the, the
31:08
sleeve, the, the sleeve of tattoos was, was the
31:11
disqualifying factor. But in fairness, I don't think
31:15
CC was very much interested in becoming a United States brain.
31:18
And she was like, no, if anything, I'll join the Navy.
31:21
If you're doing the Marine Corps, I'll join the Navy, you
31:23
know, so we can we can stay together.
31:26
But yeah, so the, the tattoo policy is what what threw it
31:29
off? But it, it ended up working out
31:32
because CC as a non citizen, as a green card holder, you know,
31:36
she was able to her her job selection was kind of limited as
31:39
far as what I'm also she qualified for, but she was able
31:42
to get a job in in the medical field.
31:43
So in the she was a orthopedic technician, which is pretty
31:48
cool. You know, it's like she she was
31:50
working in the cast room, you know, she was helping people
31:52
recover from surgeries. So that was pretty neat.
31:54
And then it gave me the opportunity to get back into
31:58
Intel, which was, you know, ultimately like the pathway that
32:01
I wanted to come back to. And as you can imagine, you
32:03
know, getting, getting a clearance after living abroad
32:06
for six years and, you know, having foreign contacts and all
32:09
the, it was a bit of a doozy, you know, like going, going
32:12
through this clearance investigation process.
32:14
But I was very thorough and all the information that I gave, all
32:17
the countries I visited, the people that I stayed in touch
32:19
with. So I had to, I had to sweat it
32:22
out for a little while, but but I ended up coming back.
32:26
So prior in the Marine Corps, I was, I was a linguist, you know,
32:30
so that falls into signals intelligence coming into the
32:33
Army, ended up going into geospatial intelligence.
32:35
So I was an imagery analyst and. And yeah, so that that ended up
32:39
bringing us to to Washington State, which was, you know, oh.
32:44
Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you.
32:46
I don't know if I told you this, but did I tell you that my
32:49
command was Alpha Company three O 5?
32:54
Right, right, right were the. Largest military intelligence
32:58
battalion in the US Army, and we had the gulfs and the tangos.
33:05
Yep, Yep, Yep, Yep. Exactly.
33:07
Well, and you? Guys, part of our like that was
33:09
part of our instinct connection. Well, well, and what's funny is
33:12
we had the the linguist connection first, right?
33:14
And then now, you know, the, yeah, that Defense Language
33:18
Institute, Yeah. And then, and then the, the
33:21
Wachuka connection. And, and so ultimately, like me,
33:24
ended up in in Joint Base Lewis McCord in Washington was what
33:27
got us connected in the 1st place.
33:29
Because my first Sergeant at the time, you know, all of a sudden
33:33
tells me, hey, you know, this former commander of mine is
33:37
going to Kenya and she's asking for a Kenya contact.
33:40
And then he's the one that ended up getting us in touch.
33:43
And that's how this this whole thing began.
33:45
Right. And then I know I, I told you
33:47
the story, you know, four years ago.
33:49
But Clay Thomas, command Sergeant Major Clay Thomas,
33:54
wherever you are up there, man, you to this day, you were one of
33:58
the most incredible leaders I've had the honor of working with.
34:02
So Clay, wherever you are, keep it up.
34:06
Man, Yep, he's, he's the man. Yeah.
34:08
Well, and and it was funny too, you know, because we, I, I was
34:11
in a, I was in a striker brigade, right?
34:14
A striker brigade combat team. So I was part of the MI company
34:17
there. And, you know, we're, we were
34:19
infamously non deployable because of some war crimes that
34:23
happened, you know, generations before us.
34:25
And you know, so like, but part of me it was like, man, I'm not
34:27
going to get a chance to deploy. Like this is like a bummer.
34:30
But really it was like I was in E4 at the time, but now I'm like
34:34
a 31 year old E4 with like, you know, prior service experience
34:38
and like life experience. So like I ended up taking in
34:41
like some of that. We, we call them our Army sons,
34:43
you know, because these are like 18 and 19 year old guys that,
34:46
you know, are, it's the first time away from home, you know,
34:49
they're living in the barracks. And we were always the people
34:52
that were like, hey, what are you doing this weekend?
34:53
Come over to our house. We'll like cook steaks on the
34:56
grill or cook some burgers or something.
34:58
And, you know, so I, I ended up like, even as, like, I wasn't
35:01
even an NCOI ended up, you know, finding myself like, kind of in
35:04
like this, this mentorship role, you know, and, and I, I, I
35:08
always viewed it as like me as like a 19 or 20 year old Marine.
35:12
If I knew 3031 year old me, like, would life have been
35:15
different, right. So I wanted to be that leader
35:18
that, you know, kind of showed them like, hey, the military is
35:20
cool. Like there is opportunities, you
35:22
know, like you can do stuff. And you know, I ended up being
35:26
there for about 3 years and I, I could probably count off like
35:30
close to a dozen of young guys that they didn't just get out
35:34
after their first contract. You know, they re enlisted, they
35:37
went special operations. They, you know, stayed in the
35:40
reserve of the National Guard. We still keep in touch to this
35:43
day. They're staff sergeants now.
35:44
You know, they've been on deployments like, you know, so
35:47
it to me, it was like I came in thinking like, I'm going to get
35:51
to deploy, I'm going to get to do something.
35:53
And then again, God's like, hey, let's, let's pull that back a
35:55
little bit. Like you're not going to do all
35:58
that. You're going to be in a unit
35:59
that explicitly doesn't do that. So, you know, it was like, OK,
36:02
well, let me make the most of this.
36:03
Let me let me at least be a a good leader and mentor to, you
36:06
know, these young guys that that hopefully I can, I can be a a
36:10
positive influence to them. So so we ended up, yeah, we
36:13
ended up. Go ahead, Jim, on.
36:15
That note so I find it fascinating that God will find a
36:22
way to use us because I'm not trying to say this is tied to
36:27
ego, but what you were focused on you wanted to be in the fight
36:32
and you felt like that's where you were most valuable.
36:35
And again, you know, it reminds me of I don't know if you've
36:38
seen the meme of Jesus and he's asking the little kid for his
36:43
his little teddy bear and the little kids crying.
36:46
No, I don't want to let. It it's mine and and.
36:49
Behind Jesus's back he has like a life-size teddy bear.
36:54
Right, right, right. You know I love you.
36:58
I'm trying to take this thing that you think is everything.
37:03
Because I. Have so much more for you.
37:06
Yep, Yep. Oh, 100%.
37:08
And you know, for me, it was like I, I came back into the
37:12
Intel field, but really I had, you know, I had my sights set on
37:16
special operations, right? And I ended up, I ended up going
37:20
to Special forces assessment and selection and got lost in the
37:24
woods, as they say. I think that's the clinical
37:26
term, you know, didn't get enough points in land NAV and
37:29
came back all dejected. And, you know, it was like I
37:32
every, every, every path that I was trying to pursue, it was
37:35
like there was a different obstacle, you know, And then I'm
37:38
sitting there just like, all right, I need to be better.
37:40
I need to be better. Like, let me, let me really
37:42
focus on land NAV. Let me, you know, do this expert
37:44
soldier stuff, you know, like let me train these junior, I, I
37:47
want to say junior Marines, these junior soldiers.
37:49
And like, so I, I was finding myself like in, in that training
37:53
environment more where it's like, OK, let me just kind of
37:56
come back. Let me refit, let me, let me
37:58
look for the next opportunity. And I was actually at the point
38:01
of like, I, I, I was actually at the point of almost, almost
38:06
getting out after my first enlistment.
38:07
You know, I'm just like, OK, let me, let me just go, you know,
38:10
find a, a civilian job where I can do this.
38:12
And then through Tom Clay, an opportunity came up and he was
38:16
like, Hey, would you consider doing this?
38:18
And then so I reenlisted for that.
38:20
And then we we PCs to Fort Bragg, to North Carolina.
38:24
Yeah, yeah. Let's pause there.
38:25
So this is the this is the challenge with you, Andrew, is
38:31
that you have so much in you, so much in you.
38:35
And I want everybody to hear it, but there's also like just so
38:39
many points and learning points and insights that I, I love to
38:46
just be able to like pause for a minute.
38:49
So if you're good with it, I'd like to dig into that a little
38:54
bit because I remember that time.
38:57
Yeah, yeah. And I remember how hard on
39:00
yourself you were. Oh yeah.
39:03
Oh yeah. And I don't know if you ever
39:05
came to the understanding, but you know, for those listening,
39:11
what if the failure, the thing that you're labeling as a
39:17
failure, what if it had nothing to do with you?
39:20
What if you were good enough? What if you were fast enough,
39:24
strong enough? What if your land nab actually
39:27
was great, you know. But God.
39:30
Is like, I understand my child that you want this, but I have
39:34
something so much better for you.
39:37
How do you think if you knew that, Andrew at the time, how do
39:40
you think that would have changed everything that you went
39:42
through? Well, and you know, Jen, it's
39:44
funny because like by, by the, by the time I was going through
39:47
all this, I had already, I had already started to learn to like
39:50
fall back on God's plan. So I, I was like, I'm, I'm not
39:53
going to, you know, beat myself up.
39:55
I'm just going to improve. I'm just going to get stronger.
39:57
I'm just going to get faster. I'm just going to be more
39:59
technically proficient. Like I'm just going to focus on
40:01
all these things that are within my power and then I'm going to
40:03
come back better. And but at the same time, right,
40:07
like I always had my sights set on these, these goals, right, on
40:11
these things that were, that were higher that I could do.
40:13
That was going to, you know, that was going to lead to more
40:15
cool deployments and was going to, you know, it, it, it was
40:18
basically like it, it, it took time for me to realize that in
40:23
the Marine Corps, my five years in the Marine Corps, like
40:25
everything that I wanted just kind of fell on my lap.
40:27
Like I, I, it was, it was challenging.
40:30
It was difficult. I did have to train hard.
40:32
I did have to go through trials and hardships, but it was like
40:35
everything just fell into place. And now I find myself, you know,
40:38
I'm in the Army, I'm in my 30s and like, I'm, I'm physically
40:42
fit, you know, I'm still crushing the ACFT or the APFT.
40:46
Like I'm still, I'm still killing it by all these, you
40:49
know, Army metrics. You know, I'm still, I'm still
40:53
proficient in my job. I'm doing, I'm doing everything
40:55
that I need to do. But it was like everything that
40:58
I was, I was trying to go after. It was just like boom, set back,
41:02
boom set back injury, you know, like having to adapt to like
41:05
this older body. And I'm like, no, I'm in my
41:07
prime. Like, how could this be?
41:09
You know, like I can't be having these injuries.
41:11
This never happened when I was 20, you know, so, so it was like
41:15
a it evolved problem set, you know, and, and just if I could
41:19
touch on like when we came to Fort Bragg, I was, I was still
41:22
looking at doing the same things, right?
41:23
So special mission unit selection and then boom, another
41:27
set back like I end up being a 45 day non select.
41:30
And it's like, man, I passed land NAV this time, you know,
41:32
like I passed all the physical things, like I, I did everything
41:35
I needed to do. What is going on here?
41:38
And then it was like every time I would say, OK, cool, you
41:41
either you either win or you learn.
41:43
Like now I, I just need to get better.
41:45
And so I'm looking at, you know, doing the next special mission
41:48
unit or I'm looking at doing something else in special
41:50
operations, or I'm looking at maybe becoming a Warrant
41:53
Officer. I'm thinking all these, all
41:54
these different paths that I can go through and, you know,
41:57
concurrently. So right before we left
41:59
Washington, our son was born, you know, and obviously like
42:03
that, that becomes a different purpose in life, you know, and
42:06
now it's like, oh man, like this, this is talk about and
42:09
evolve problems that and, and Cece ended up getting out of the
42:12
Army. So now, you know, I've got I've
42:14
got my wife and my son depending on me.
42:16
We've moved to a new state. We have been here four days.
42:19
We closed on our house. We got our household goods and
42:21
then I immediately went TDYI was gone for a month and 1/2.
42:24
So my wife is here a brand new baby, new state, new house, No
42:29
husband like it was, it was, it was a a period of a lot of
42:32
trials and tribulations for both of us, me on the professional
42:35
front, but also on the on the personal front.
42:37
We are going through a lot and then, and then all of a sudden,
42:40
you know, my, my wife is pregnant with our daughter.
42:43
And now that that changes things that, that alters the plans.
42:46
And so it was kind of I, I went out for the special mission unit
42:50
selection that didn't go my way. Then my father had a very
42:54
debilitating stroke. We, we took a trip to go to see
42:59
him in Colorado. That was actually the last time
43:00
that we saw him. And then that would have led us
43:04
to the beginning of 2024. Our daughter was born.
43:08
I took paternity leave. While on paternity leave, a very
43:12
close friend of mine, like an army brother of mine, tragically
43:14
took his own life. So I was really, really down bad
43:18
with that. I went for his funeral.
43:21
I took my son. We took a little road trip and,
43:23
you know, went to, to honor his memory.
43:26
And then I came back and I'm like, OK, I'm, I'm putting
43:29
myself back together again. I went back to work and it was
43:33
within like a week, my dad passed away.
43:36
And so now I'm like, I'm spiraling, you know, like I am,
43:39
I am not doing well. Like I, I have had so, so many
43:43
dominoes fall and so much thrown at me.
43:46
And I was just like, man, I, I don't know what your, what your
43:50
plan is for me right now, but like, I'm, I'm really, really
43:53
trying to do my best, like leave this in God's hands and like
43:56
figure this out. And, and so at, at at that
44:00
point, I moved my, my wife and my babies out to Kenya so that
44:04
my wife could have support, that they could be taken care of.
44:08
And at that time I was, again, I was TDYA lot.
44:11
I was gone. Like most of the time that they
44:12
were, that they were in Kenya. And the whole time I was sitting
44:16
here thinking like, OK, what's the next thing?
44:18
What's the next thing? What is this next opportunity
44:20
that I need to, that I need to go out for?
44:22
Where do I want to take my career?
44:24
Because I thought I was going to long haul it and, and finish out
44:27
the 20 years. And at that point it was like I,
44:31
I, I just kind of had this realization where it was like in
44:34
the five years in the Marine Corps, everything fell into my
44:36
lap. Like I've spent, you know, at
44:39
this point, like probably five years in the Army and everything
44:42
that I'm trying to do is just like obstacle after obstacle set
44:46
back after set back. And then it just kind of like
44:48
dawned on me, like maybe, maybe this, you know, this young,
44:52
young drew mentality of like wanting to do all these high
44:55
speed special operations things. Maybe that's not what God has in
44:58
store for you anymore. Like now maybe this beautiful
45:01
family that you have, you know, maybe, maybe this is where
45:04
you're meant to go. And it was a decision I grappled
45:08
with for a really long time, you know, because by the time I went
45:11
back and picked them up from Kenya, I, I told my wife, man,
45:13
I, I think I'm, I think it's time for me to get, you know,
45:17
to, to come off active duty and to get out of the army.
45:19
And, you know, she kind of confided in me and said, I've
45:22
been hoping that you would come to this realization, you know,
45:26
and so at, at that point it was like, man, I, I, I think now
45:30
the, the purpose is different. And I want you to jump in at
45:35
here in just a second, But I, I, I just want to say like at that
45:38
point, you know, I, I was on the clock.
45:40
I had maybe like a a year left on my contract and I really
45:43
started saying like, it's time for me to hang up the uniform
45:47
and it's time for me to Don my God armor.
45:49
And I didn't know what I meant by that.
45:51
I didn't know what I meant by that at the time, but it was
45:54
like I just kept saying over and over again like it's time for me
45:57
to Don my God armor. I got to hang up the uniform and
46:00
now you know this. This is my new mission in life,
46:04
so feel free to jump in at that point.
46:07
Where? Did that come from Andrew?
46:10
Were you? Were you still a Muslim at the
46:12
time? I, I was, but at this point now
46:17
I've been kind of like, I've been coming back to Christ, I've
46:19
been calling, I, I've been getting called back to Christ.
46:22
And, and so it was, it was kind of like concurrently Cece and I
46:26
were going through it at the same time.
46:28
I think there really is something about having children
46:31
and like being, you know, embracing that role as a as a
46:34
father, as a mother and, and wanting, wanting to be on the
46:39
same page spiritually, you know, as as man and wife and wanting
46:43
to raise our children like in that, you know, under, under,
46:46
under that same umbrella, you know, like having having that
46:48
shared theology, you know, if you will.
46:52
And so it was a long time coming and, and really it was like over
46:57
the course of maybe about that, like final year, you know, it
47:00
was like I was feeling myself called, you know, I was kind of
47:03
getting back into the Bible. And then by the time I, I got
47:07
out of the Army, I took a little sabbatical.
47:10
You know, I, I had to unplug for a little while.
47:12
CC was an absolute champion, you know, and like shouldered the
47:15
responsibility of two babies. Well, you know, I was, I was off
47:19
in the jungle, like no cell network, you know, just kind of
47:21
like disconnected. You know, I went on this little
47:24
trip down to South America and by the time I came back and, you
47:28
know, kind of like plugged back in to the world, I, I, I
47:32
realized like the, the phone is like, it's such a double edged
47:37
sword because now I've been disconnected, you know, and I
47:40
was in a place with no cell network for two weeks and all of
47:44
a sudden I come back and as soon as I get on my phone, it's like,
47:47
it's just, oh, bombings are happening here and there and,
47:51
you know, riots are happening here and there.
47:54
And it was like, I was just immediately like kind of
47:56
repulsed and I was like, whoa, like, I don't need anger and
48:00
hatred and, you know, division like that's I, I, I want to, I
48:04
want to put all my focus on God. So I kind of established a rule
48:06
for myself that like, if I'm going to be on YouTube, like I'm
48:09
only looking at like God content.
48:11
And that was how I ended up finding an, an Orthodox priest.
48:17
And it was like everything that he was talking about the, the,
48:20
the talk that he was giving was primarily about marriage and
48:24
about, you know, roles as as husbands and as wives and the,
48:28
the responsibility that we shoulder.
48:30
And it was kind of like that was exactly what led me out of the
48:34
Army. That's what took me off of
48:36
active duty And everything that he was saying.
48:38
It was like a mirror image, like a parallel of what I was
48:42
feeling. You know, it was like what I was
48:44
feeling in my heart. You know, it was like that.
48:45
That was what was coming into my consciousness was like, that's
48:48
the world that I need to embrace.
48:50
And so I started as like, you know, sharing videos with my
48:54
wife, like, hey, this guy's making me want to become an
48:56
Orthodox Christian, ha ha, JKLOL type thing.
49:00
And and then I, I found myself, you know, coming back from Ava
49:04
appointment. I kind of stumbled into our
49:07
local Orthodox Church on a random day when nothing was on
49:10
the schedule and, and the priest was there and I just popped my
49:14
head in and he said hi. I said hello.
49:18
And he said, what brings you in? And I said, how much time do you
49:21
have? And he said, well, come in, let
49:22
let me give you a tour. Let's sit down.
49:24
And we talked for like close to three hours, you know, and, and
49:27
we were just sitting there, we were talking about everything,
49:29
but basically everything that we've talked about in, in this
49:32
conversation and, and more. And he told me, come on Sunday.
49:37
And I said, OK, what, what do I need to know?
49:39
You don't need to know anything. Just come, like, what do I need
49:41
to bring? Just bring your family like, you
49:44
know, what do I do? He's like, don't worry about
49:46
doing, just come. And that's, that's kind of what
49:49
got us started on this journey, you know?
49:51
And so now, you know, you Fast forward over a year later and
49:55
the babies have been baptized and we've all been charismated
49:58
as a family into the Orthodox Church.
49:59
And we, you know, we, we, we, we have really let you know God
50:04
and, and Christ just kind of take the wheel.
50:06
And it's just become such like an integral part in like our,
50:10
our daily life and like how we operate as parents and you know,
50:13
how we interact with each other, how we view other people, how we
50:15
view the world, how we act as employees, you know, like now
50:20
undertaking new jobs, you know, outside of the active duty
50:22
realm. So it, it's really been, it's
50:26
really been a beautiful, beautiful experience.
50:28
And to just kind of see it all unfold kind of serendipitously.
50:31
And then to be able to look back and say, like, that's why all of
50:34
these things were happening, you know, like that's, you know,
50:37
that's, that's why I had to go through like such a, such a dark
50:40
time, you know, and, and now, you know, it's like, I've been
50:43
sober for 15 months, you know, and I'm just trying to just
50:46
been, you know, be, be, be filled with, filled with love
50:49
and God's love and, and just try to try to let that, you know,
50:53
be, be my, my focal point, you know, kind of my anchor in life.
50:57
So that that kind of brings us to the, the present day and that
51:00
kind of, you know, brings the, the spiritual story full circle
51:02
a little bit. Yeah.
51:04
Thank you so much for sharing that.
51:06
And Andrew, I might catch you off guard guard with this
51:09
question. But I think it's really
51:11
important because, you know, we talked about our testimony, and
51:19
I think we want to start with, like, how much our lives have
51:22
changed, how much more joy we have, how much more peace we
51:30
carry with us. Oh, yeah.
51:33
But I want to ask you, what about challenges in life?
51:38
Have they gotten better? Easier.
51:41
As you. Became a Christian.
51:43
Did you became a? Christ Follower.
51:45
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, if anything, it would be
51:49
a, a testimonial to taking up your cross and following Christ
51:55
leading up to the the point of us.
51:57
So now we were catechumens. So we're going through the the
52:00
Orthodox catechism. And just earlier this year it
52:04
was like it was February. I was stuck in traffic.
52:10
There was two cars ahead of me was making a left hand turn.
52:13
I got rear-ended by a 17 year old driving his dad's pickup
52:17
truck doing 60 miles an hour. No skid marks on the scene.
52:20
He didn't even apply the brakes. He was probably on his phone if
52:23
I was to guess. So immediately car gets
52:26
totalled, I'm all busted up. We're down to 1 car.
52:31
We had a pipe burst in a bad freeze under the kitchen sink.
52:35
I lost some clients in my side hustle.
52:37
You know, all of a sudden my monthly income was diminished.
52:41
I bought a a used car after that.
52:45
And on the third day the check engine light came on.
52:47
I had to fight the dealership to take it back.
52:49
And it was just like, throughout all of this, you know, it's like
52:54
I, I had, I had now reached that point where like, I'm not asking
52:56
why, because of my daily prayers.
52:58
I'm saying, you know, give me, give me the strength to bear the
53:00
fatigue of the coming day with all that it shall bring, right?
53:02
Like it's God's will, Like give me a piece of soul and firm
53:07
conviction that God's will is governing all right, that your
53:09
will is governing all. And so it was like the strangest
53:12
thing because like everything is like falling apart around me.
53:16
You know what? I'm just like, it's just things
53:19
are getting thrown at me and I'm like, I will not be deterred.
53:23
Like we are going to make it to, you know, this baptism, we are
53:26
going to be Christmated and join the church.
53:28
And, you know, so it's, I, I think people kind of kind of
53:33
expect that, you know, when you, when you welcome Christ into
53:35
your life and into your heart, that like everything just
53:38
instantly gets better. And the reality is we all have a
53:41
cross to bear, you know, and, and God is allowing these trials
53:44
and tribulations to happen. You know, these obstacles are,
53:48
are put forth on your path to test your faith and to give you
53:51
something to learn and, and, and to give you something to
53:53
overcome, right, Because sometimes it's like the, the
53:56
darkest times, you know, forge the strongest bonds, you know,
53:59
and, and this is when you really find out what you're all about
54:02
South. It has not been it, it has not
54:05
been rainbows and butterflies, you know, by, by any stretch of
54:09
the imagination. But it really comes down to that
54:11
mindset. And if you have Christ to act as
54:14
your anchor and, and, and you don't find yourself asking why,
54:18
but you, you start asking those what questions, then it's like
54:21
nothing that you throw at me is, is going to make me fall, you
54:25
know, and if I do fall, I'm going to get back up, you know,
54:28
So it really does end up when you find that change in outlook
54:33
like it, it just becomes another thing to overcome as opposed to
54:36
something to, to weigh you down. That's beautiful, Andrew, and I
54:41
want to dive more into the discussion about struggling and
54:48
challenges, especially once you become a Christian because for
54:54
those of you who are not aware, this is nothing new.
54:59
In fact, most Christians that you talk to will have a similar
55:04
story. And, and I just have to say
55:07
this, Andrew, I don't even like using the word Christian anymore
55:11
because it's become so like vague that people all claim it.
55:18
And in reality, you know what a Christian should be is a Christ
55:23
follower. But unfortunately it's really
55:27
gotten watered down. And for example, you know, if
55:31
you find somebody that is condemning you and using the
55:35
Bible to condemn you and throw shame.
55:38
At you. That's not what Jesus did.
55:41
Right, right. You know, and so.
55:43
Unfortunately, people see others that call themselves a Christian
55:49
and that attack other people, and usually they're attacking
55:54
other Christians. And so it's like, why would I
55:57
want to be part of that? And then unfortunately, if they
56:01
don't have any experience with the church, that's what they
56:04
define a Christian as, and they have no idea that they're doing
56:12
the exact opposite of what Christ Jesus teaches.
56:17
US yeah, yeah, no, definitely well and you know so as as we're
56:21
undergoing our catechism, you know our spiritual father said
56:26
read the New Testament like that's that's your homework
56:28
assignment like don't don't diverge from that plan read the
56:30
New Testament. And so that was probably the
56:33
first time in my life when, like, I was, I was really going
56:35
deep into the, the life and teachings and, and sacrifice of
56:39
Christ and, and to, to be learning not just about the New
56:43
Testament, but like about the, the early church, right?
56:45
So like with the, the Orthodox Church, it's like, hey, the,
56:48
the, the first thousand years of the church, right before there
56:50
was a split between Catholics and Orthodox.
56:52
Like, there's a lot of deep lessons to be, to be learned
56:56
there. And, and what I was talking
56:59
about before, when I listen to this priest talk about, you
57:01
know, marriage, what I realized was his, his, his PhD was on,
57:06
it's called marriage in virginity according to Saint
57:08
John Chrysostom. And Saint John Chrysostom was
57:11
like, I want to say a 4th century St., 3rd or 4th century
57:14
St. And so I started reading some of
57:17
his, some of his teachings and realizing, like the stuff that
57:20
he was talking about, about marriage, it still applies
57:23
today. Like this is insane.
57:24
Like this is the stuff that, like I was feeling pulled to
57:27
when I was making that decision to come off of active duty.
57:30
And, and so just realizing like there's such timeless wisdom in
57:33
the Bible. And as I'm reading the New
57:35
Testament and I'm, I'm reading, you know, not only the Gospels,
57:37
but like the Acts of the Apostles and realizing that as
57:40
they were, you know, evangelizing throughout the
57:43
region, they were going out of their way not to condemn the
57:47
pagans of, of the Mediterranean. They, they were not blaspheming
57:51
their gods. They were going out of their way
57:53
to win them through Christ and win them through love.
57:56
So instead of, you know, coming with accusations or attacks or
58:01
condemnation, they were instead saying, no, it's the love of
58:05
Christ that's going to win people over.
58:07
And so really starting to kind of apply that, you know, in, in
58:11
our own lives and, and realize, like, you have to endure the
58:14
struggle, You know, you have to, you have to go back to that
58:17
scripture, right? Like as you're reading the, the
58:19
New Testament, as you're reading the new covenant, right?
58:22
Like the the theology of Christ and how he's the fulfillment of
58:25
the old covenant and he's here to usher us into the age of the
58:28
new covenant and realize how radically he's reforming things,
58:32
right? And how these these radical
58:34
changes that are being implemented is like this is your
58:37
pathway to salvation and, and just kind of kind of realizing
58:42
like there is spiritual warfare underway, like at every point in
58:47
turn. Like this is when I was saying
58:50
it's time for me to Don my God armor.
58:51
I didn't even know that. Like that's a quote from Saint
58:54
Paul, you know, like he says, Don your whole armor of God, you
58:57
know, and and so as I was reading the New Testament, I'm
58:59
like, I didn't even know what I was referencing when I was
59:02
saying I'm going to hang up the military uniform and I'm going
59:04
to Dodd my God armor, you know, but then starting to realize,
59:07
like spiritual warfare is all around us, you know, and like
59:10
the the 21st century battlefield, like, you know, we,
59:13
we put in the in the, the, the title of this episode, you know,
59:18
we are being assaulted from all fronts, right?
59:21
Like technology is a problem, right?
59:24
Social media is a problem, entertainment, online gambling,
59:28
you know, like all of these things, the fact that people
59:30
are, are living sedentary lifestyles, they're isolated
59:34
socially. Like we're, we're not as active
59:36
as we're supposed to be. Our diet is bad, You know, we're
59:39
struggling with addictions. You know it with, with drinking
59:41
or with pharmaceuticals being on too many medications like all of
59:45
these things. Financial hardship, you know,
59:47
the, the, a lot of people are dealing with debt, you know,
59:50
it's a rough economy. The cost of living is high.
59:52
Like all of these things are being thrown at us and it's
59:55
like, man, like, how do we, how do we navigate through this,
59:59
this 21st century battlefield? You know what I mean?
1:00:01
The spiritual battlefield. And so it was kind of like
1:00:04
unbeknownst to me that I, I was, I was like I said,
1:00:08
serendipitously, kind of like navigating through this and
1:00:11
realizing that like all of these answers to my questions were in
1:00:14
the New Testament, You know, it's like I had, I had read it
1:00:17
here and there. I had thumbed through it before
1:00:19
but like reading it you know from.
1:00:22
From Matthew to Revelation and then starting over again and
1:00:24
then going going through it again and like, kind of like,
1:00:27
you know, letting it integrate deeper into my consciousness and
1:00:31
letting it permeate into my heart.
1:00:33
You know, it was like it was so important.
1:00:35
And then now it's like the scales have come off and it's
1:00:39
like, man, I'm, I'm viewing things not through this like
1:00:42
physical realm. And that Jen, that was one of
1:00:45
the big, the big problems with when I was coming off of active
1:00:48
duty. It was like I was so focused in
1:00:51
like the physical realm or the mental realm, you know, I was
1:00:54
physically strong. I was mentally strong.
1:00:56
You know, I was, I was, I would say emotionally, but like in on
1:01:00
the active duty, you know, we're good at, we call it
1:01:03
compartmentalizing, but really it's just repression.
1:01:06
It's just put all that on the back burner and just hope it
1:01:09
doesn't boil over. You know, we've
1:01:10
compartmentalized. But I was, I was experiencing
1:01:14
such a spiritual void. And, and so me coming off of
1:01:17
active duty and like having that kind of realization, like, no, I
1:01:20
need to, I need to fill that void.
1:01:22
You know, I need to bring God back in.
1:01:24
And I think the comment just said, you know, having my wife
1:01:26
on the same page was so important because as we were,
1:01:30
you know, we, we literally went from like debating, you know,
1:01:33
debated New Testament, you know, one day to like the next day.
1:01:36
I'm like, we need to become Orthodox Christians.
1:01:38
It was like, it was like a 24, maybe 72 hour turn around.
1:01:43
And it was like we went from like debated it from like
1:01:45
different sides to like, all of a sudden I was, I was fully
1:01:49
invested. I was fully on board.
1:01:52
So so yeah, that that that really allowed me to kind of
1:01:55
like reframe things and like really start looking at things
1:01:58
in life through more of a spiritual lens and say, like, we
1:02:02
really are experiencing good versus evil and it's happening
1:02:04
right before our eyes. We just need to wake up to it.
1:02:07
So I have so many questions for you.
1:02:11
Oh my gosh, it's. Like I need to just slow down
1:02:15
Andrew because. Like this and.
1:02:17
Then you move on to something else.
1:02:19
I'm like. I'm sorry.
1:02:21
OK, No, no, it's OK. It's great.
1:02:23
It's great. And, you know, for our
1:02:25
listeners, I'd love you all to let us know, you know, what is
1:02:27
resonating with you and it what questions do you have for
1:02:30
Andrew? And the, you know, I, I want to
1:02:35
ask this question though, and I'd like for you to take us back
1:02:39
with you a little bit because we're talking about spiritual
1:02:42
warfare. And you know, if I told you that
1:02:48
you are currently under surveillance, surveillance,
1:02:51
surveillance, surveillance. Surveillance.
1:02:56
Wow. You know, you had no idea.
1:02:59
And and then I told you, like the government has control of
1:03:04
your bank account, they have control of your, your
1:03:07
electricity, your water, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah,
1:03:09
blah. You could be someone that's
1:03:12
like, I had no idea, you know, because why you don't see them,
1:03:17
you don't see that happening, you know, in your reality as
1:03:22
we're experiencing it. And I that was.
1:03:24
Maybe that was a bad example because I don't want to try.
1:03:26
To talk about surveillance, you know.
1:03:29
To intelligence, anyway. Anyways.
1:03:33
This is slowed down there, right?
1:03:35
But my point is, you, there are things happening in this world
1:03:40
that you have no idea of, but that doesn't mean they're not
1:03:46
happening. And so, Andrew, I want to talk
1:03:50
about in terms of your alcoholism, would you now you
1:04:00
use the word sobriety. I've never asked you this
1:04:02
question. Did you consider yourself an
1:04:03
alcoholic? Again, with, with hindsight
1:04:07
being 2020, you know, like in in the moment, it's like, Oh no,
1:04:10
I've never gotten ADUI. I've never been late to work.
1:04:13
You can rationalize like all these things and but now I, I
1:04:17
could look back on it and say, yes, probably I, I would, I
1:04:20
would say I, I probably fit that criteria.
1:04:23
And, and really it was just, it was just an unhealthy
1:04:27
relationship with it, right? It was like when all of a sudden
1:04:30
it's like, it's just the thing to do, you know what I mean?
1:04:34
When my wife and my babies are in Kenya and I'm here, I'm TDY,
1:04:37
I'm doing a lot of stuff. And then like, I just find
1:04:40
myself like in a hotel room drinking by myself.
1:04:42
Like, that's not good, you know? Or if my family is home, you
1:04:46
know, and I'm sitting here and the one of these thoughts that's
1:04:49
coming to my mind is like, oh, just be nice to have a beer
1:04:52
right now. You know, Like, I don't want to
1:04:53
set that example for my children.
1:04:55
Like I don't, I don't want them to grow up in an environment
1:04:57
where they see that there's always an alcohol supply in the
1:04:59
house and like they constantly see me drinking.
1:05:02
So it was just kind of something for me that was like I, and, and
1:05:06
again in the New Testament, it talks about this, it says be
1:05:08
sober minded, right? Like it does, it doesn't say
1:05:10
like, you know, cease drinking alcohol all the time.
1:05:13
It just says like, don't lose your senses, right?
1:05:15
Like be sober minded. And so it what, what really
1:05:18
started as like, OK, I'm, I'm just going to give this thing a
1:05:21
go. I, I just kind of started moving
1:05:24
the goal posts, you know, and it was like, oh, I, now I've made
1:05:27
it X amount of months. Like now I'm going to wait until
1:05:30
we, we get chrismated in the church or now I'm going to make
1:05:32
it till Easter. And now I'm going to, you know,
1:05:34
and then eventually we made it to Easter and, you know, people
1:05:37
are having some wine or whatever.
1:05:38
And I was like, I've made it this far.
1:05:40
Let me, let me give it another month.
1:05:41
Let me make it a year. Let me just, you know, so now
1:05:44
it, it's just the type of thing that it's like, it's no longer a
1:05:47
crutch. But I think the, the, the larger
1:05:49
problem is like we, we, we, we lose set of like unhealthy
1:05:54
relationships that we have with a lot of things that, that
1:05:57
operate on, you know, our, our dopamine systems in our brains
1:06:00
or whatever. You know, it's like there's the
1:06:02
physical, you know, the, the, the, the physical interactions
1:06:05
that's happening in the brain. You know, let's use the example
1:06:08
of alcohol, right? Or, or pharmaceuticals.
1:06:12
It is having this influence on your brain.
1:06:14
But when we, when we kind of give it like a wider aperture
1:06:17
and realize that like a lot of us are addicted to our phones,
1:06:21
right? A lot of us are addicted to
1:06:23
entertainment. You know, we, we have thousands
1:06:26
of channels, YouTube channels, television channels, like at our
1:06:28
disposal. We, we are spending so much of
1:06:31
our free time like on our phones, which you know, when the
1:06:35
smartphone came out, it was like, oh, this is like going to
1:06:37
be this earth shattering technology that's going to, you
1:06:39
know, we're going to have unlimited access to information
1:06:42
at our fingertips. But like, in reality, like
1:06:44
people read less now, Like people don't read books as much,
1:06:47
you know, like the average number of people that read a
1:06:50
book cover to cover, you know, is I think it's like the lowest
1:06:53
it's ever been. It's like in the 30% range, 30
1:06:55
or 40% range. And, and so just like realizing
1:06:59
that like we have a lot of unhealthy relationships, not
1:07:02
just with substances, but you know, with, with technology as
1:07:06
well, or an unhealthy relationship with food.
1:07:09
You know, we, we, we've gone away from like a healthy Whole
1:07:13
Foods diet, you know, to like a more processed diet.
1:07:16
We probably don't drink enough water, we probably don't get
1:07:18
enough sunlight, we don't get enough moderate, you know, to,
1:07:21
to light exercise, which is, you know, integral to longevity, you
1:07:26
know, so it's like as a society, we are unhealthy as individuals,
1:07:30
we are unhealthy. And you know, it's, it's not
1:07:34
really like A1 size fits all type of thing, you know, because
1:07:37
obviously we all could benefit from a healthier diet.
1:07:40
We all could benefit from more exercise.
1:07:41
We all could benefit from getting off of our phones, you
1:07:44
know, but, but in reality, you know, like for, for me,
1:07:47
sobriety, I wanted to be emotionally available to my
1:07:50
wife. I wanted to be a present father
1:07:52
to my children. And if I was, you know,
1:07:55
ingesting A substance that was kind of like numbing my senses
1:07:58
and, and, and in reality, Jen, I had been through so much.
1:08:00
Like I, I was trying to not feel the pain, you know what I mean?
1:08:03
I was trying to like shut that pain away and just not feel it,
1:08:07
you know, so, so kind of realizing that like I was, you
1:08:11
know, it's like the, the cure was interfering with my, my
1:08:14
healing process, you know, So what I viewed as the cure was
1:08:18
like, let me just take the edge off with a beer or something.
1:08:21
But but really it was like for me cutting that out and kind of
1:08:25
like trying to re establish that, that discipline and like,
1:08:28
you know, not, not fall victim to my vices and then, you know,
1:08:33
trying to re evaluate. I'm not a social media guy, you
1:08:36
know, per SE, but I, I YouTube, you know, and I, I go on X for,
1:08:39
you know, news once in a while, even though it's it's probably
1:08:42
not advisable, you know, if if you're on the the spiritual path
1:08:45
and focused on your salvation, because there's a lot of
1:08:49
negativity out there in the world.
1:08:51
So, so I think the the grander scheme of things is like re
1:08:54
evaluating our relationships with a lot of things, you know,
1:08:57
especially when it comes to addiction.
1:08:59
So I don't even know if that answered your question in the
1:09:02
1st place. Now I've kind of gone off the
1:09:04
rails. You know, I wanted to hear about
1:09:06
your experience with with alcohol and it and some of the
1:09:10
things that we're talking about. You know, I've never been one to
1:09:15
use drugs or alcohol, but my addiction is isolation.
1:09:22
Yeah, sure. My addiction is entertainment.
1:09:29
Sure. I mean, especially when I am
1:09:32
really struggling, I will just lay down and mindlessly watch TV
1:09:41
And it's, it's got, it's the same as alcohol, you know, it's
1:09:44
got this like numbing effect where I think it kind of lowers
1:09:51
the, the, the sensors, you know. Where?
1:09:55
You can kind of tune out and you don't have to be present.
1:09:58
And there's a a clinical word for this is called
1:10:01
disassociation. Sure.
1:10:04
Yeah. You know.
1:10:04
And and that now that's I'm not using that term in the right
1:10:09
context here, but but this is something that the body does
1:10:14
when reality is too painful. Absolutely.
1:10:18
It's a way that so many of us cope and we don't even realize
1:10:22
it. Andrew.
1:10:23
And. There's so much going on, right?
1:10:25
It's not just I'm trying to numb the pain or I'm trying to take a
1:10:30
break from these intense feelings.
1:10:33
It's also like you talked about the dopamine, you know, just
1:10:39
like I would say to someone, we have to understand that if
1:10:43
someone is used to drinking like a pot of coffee, a coffee a day,
1:10:48
that's, that's not just a mental thing, that's also a, you know,
1:10:53
chemistry thing. The body is impacted by that and
1:10:57
the same thing. But we don't think about it,
1:10:59
right? Like if if you were, you know,
1:11:02
if I was to tell you, Andrew, Oh yeah, you know, I had 4 liters
1:11:07
of coffee today. First of all, I'd.
1:11:09
Probably be dead, right? Right.
1:11:12
Like there's only so much your body can handle of certain
1:11:15
things, but when is the last time somebody asked you how many
1:11:21
dopamine hits have you had? Right, right.
1:11:24
Does anybody? Even understand that like there
1:11:26
are people that I say dopamine and they're like, Oh yeah,
1:11:29
dopamine. Like that's what happens when
1:11:31
you get a hit hit of, you know, adrenaline or, you know, the
1:11:35
body's like reward system. I like what?
1:11:37
You're doing. Do more of it, you know, And
1:11:41
those things are just as dangerous as in excess of
1:11:47
anything else. And the problem with dopamine is
1:11:49
that we can grow a tolerance to it.
1:11:52
And so it takes more and more to impact us.
1:11:57
Yep, Yep. Well, and I mean, for Full
1:12:01
disclosure, I'm, I'm military sober now, right.
1:12:03
Caffeine and nicotine is the only thing that I do which is
1:12:07
very much activated on the, on the dopamine system.
1:12:10
You know, so it I, I, I think it, it's easy to lose sight of
1:12:14
that caffeine and nicotine, two of the most addictive substances
1:12:18
known to man, right. So I'm still looking forward to,
1:12:22
to kicking those next. That's next on the docket for
1:12:25
me. And, and ultimately, I think, I
1:12:27
think it, it becomes such a fall back because you know, like, oh,
1:12:31
I'm sleep deprived or, you know, oh, I need to be on on point.
1:12:35
I need to be able to concentrate, right.
1:12:37
And, and, and sleep is one of the things that we hadn't even
1:12:39
talked about yet. You know, I, I feel like so many
1:12:41
people aren't getting enough sleep or aren't getting good
1:12:44
quality sleep. So it's, it's, it's really, it's
1:12:49
because we're being attacked by so many different, you know, so
1:12:52
many different angles. It's like we really need to take
1:12:54
a multi pronged approach in how we and how we look at life and
1:12:58
how and how we try to restore ourselves to a sense of health.
1:13:02
And you know, the, the, the technology, I mean, I can't, I
1:13:04
can't harp on it enough. You know, it's like that does
1:13:07
act on your dopamine, right? Like that's, it is designed to
1:13:10
get people addicted. It's designed to get people to
1:13:13
come back. The algorithms are designed to
1:13:15
get you angry. You know, like if, if you're
1:13:17
only watching videos about like puppies being adopted, you know,
1:13:20
like, then that's going to be your algorithm.
1:13:22
It's going to change a little bit.
1:13:23
And that's probably, you know, better, better for your, for
1:13:25
your Peace of Mind, you know, but, but more often than not,
1:13:28
you know, they, they, the algorithm, the AI knows that if
1:13:32
I can get you angry, if I can get you to feel like you're
1:13:36
divided, like it's US versus them.
1:13:38
That's the stuff that keeps people coming back, you know,
1:13:40
And, and if we're, if we're to be living our lives with faith,
1:13:43
hope and love, right, which is what it says in the Bible, like
1:13:45
with love being the most important, you know, and, and
1:13:48
that kind of goes back to what you were saying about like, you
1:13:50
know, Christians kind of coming off as like accusatory or like,
1:13:52
you know, condemnatory, if that's a word, right?
1:13:55
Like, you know, you need Jesus or you're going to go to hell.
1:13:58
You know, it's like, no, no, no, no, Christ operated with love,
1:14:00
right? He said.
1:14:01
It's not the healthy that need a physician, but the sick, right?
1:14:04
Like we are meant to call people, we're meant to bring
1:14:06
people in like we're, we're, we're meant to have a, to live
1:14:10
our lives as a Christian witness, to live this spiritual
1:14:12
life and to and to bring people in the fold that way by leading
1:14:15
with love, right? By living with love, so, and,
1:14:18
and it, it's, it's hard to love other people if you don't love
1:14:20
yourself, right? Like if you're, if you're not
1:14:22
taking care of yourself, if you're not living healthy, you
1:14:25
know, like if, if you're not taking care of what's within
1:14:27
your control for your own, you know, your own well-being, It's
1:14:30
it. And we are God's creation, you
1:14:32
know, like, if we're not loving ourselves as God's creation, how
1:14:35
could we possibly expect, you know, to, to be viewing other
1:14:37
people or to be interacting with other people, leading with,
1:14:40
with, with God's love, right? So it, it, it really is, it is a
1:14:45
battlefield that is adapted and, and I wanted to, to circle back,
1:14:49
I have about 20 minutes, right? I have about 20 minutes left.
1:14:52
So now we have a, a time frame that we can work with.
1:14:56
But when you had mentioned, you know, entertainment, what what I
1:15:00
realized when I came off active duty was I had been so focused
1:15:04
on like the physical and the mental side of of my life that
1:15:07
now I went, you know, full steam ahead in the spiritual.
1:15:10
And it had been probably about a year and I realized, wow, I
1:15:14
haven't been to the gym. Like my diet's always been
1:15:16
healthy, but like, I haven't been nearly active enough.
1:15:19
Like I haven't gone to the gym. I haven't run, I haven't rocked,
1:15:22
I haven't done, I haven't lifted any weights.
1:15:24
And I kind of came to this realization when, you know, to
1:15:28
to be chrismated in the church or to be baptized, even you, you
1:15:32
have to go, you have to do a lifetime confession.
1:15:35
And it might sound like a foreign concept to people, but
1:15:37
like, I went in and, you know, just offloaded, you know, nearly
1:15:41
40 years of, of living a life of sin.
1:15:45
And, you know, I'm sitting there just tears streaming down my
1:15:47
face. I'm like sobbing, like I'm
1:15:48
waking the knees. I'm shaking.
1:15:50
You know, it's my spiritual father is putting his hand on my
1:15:52
shoulder, you know, to, to give me some stability as I get
1:15:55
through this. And when I went for evening
1:15:57
prayers that night, I just all of a sudden had this
1:16:00
overwhelming urge to, to work out.
1:16:03
And all of a sudden it like came back to me.
1:16:04
It occurred to me like, man, I haven't been to the gym in a
1:16:06
year. And the, the take away from that
1:16:09
was like, any time that we make games on, on the spiritual
1:16:12
battlefield. So like in this instance, like I
1:16:16
wasn't, you know, falling victim to the division and the hatred
1:16:18
and the anger and all this, the current events.
1:16:20
I was focusing so much on God, all evil does.
1:16:23
Is it just, it just falls back, it regroups, it comes up with a
1:16:26
new plan of action and then it it comes back with a different
1:16:30
attack. And so I had really gotten lazy
1:16:32
in that, in that in that period, right?
1:16:34
Like I was really falling victim to sloth.
1:16:36
And so when I, when I finally realized, like, oh man, he had
1:16:40
these prayers of exorcism, you know, that, that that took place
1:16:43
as I did my lifetime confession, it was like I was freed from
1:16:46
that. And it was like the next day, I
1:16:47
immediately got back to working out and I got a gym membership,
1:16:50
you know, with my wife. And like, you know, I've been
1:16:52
trying to like stay, stay on it, you know, and stay, stay healthy
1:16:55
and like kind of kind of keep the, the wheel balanced, you
1:16:58
know what I mean? So that there's no, there's no
1:17:00
imbalance in any of these different realms in life.
1:17:02
But but the fact remains, it's like you are going to be under
1:17:05
attack in some way, right? Like it might be, it might be
1:17:09
gluttony, it might be sloth, it might be pride, right?
1:17:12
It might be lust like, And as you start to make those gains
1:17:14
and as you start to conquer those, those demons and those
1:17:17
sins and you start to free yourself from those sins, evil's
1:17:20
not just going to say, OK, wave the white flag.
1:17:22
We give up. All right, Time for us to go
1:17:24
live your life and happiness, enjoy your salvation.
1:17:26
They're just going to fall back like we do on the, on the
1:17:28
battlefield, you know, like you take some losses, you come back,
1:17:31
you lick your wounds, you go back to the, you know, to the,
1:17:33
to the strategy board, you figure out how you're going to
1:17:36
reassault and then and then you come back and you try to come
1:17:39
back stronger, you know, and that's, that's exactly how the
1:17:42
spiritual warfare works as well. That's exactly how evil works is
1:17:45
as soon as you give, as soon as you gain a little bit a little
1:17:49
bit of ground and you get a little bit complacent, it's
1:17:51
going to find a new way to attack.
1:17:52
So when you, when you mentioned entertainment and laziness, I
1:17:55
was like, I have to tell this story because it was happening
1:17:58
before my eyes and I hadn't even realized it, you know, because
1:18:01
I, I had just gotten so, so lazy.
1:18:04
Because in my mind, I'm, I'm reading, I'm listening to
1:18:06
lectures, I'm, I'm listening to podcasts, you know, like it's
1:18:09
all about God. And in reality it was like, oh
1:18:12
man, I have gotten so lazy. But like, I, I, it was
1:18:16
unbeknownst to me the entire time.
1:18:18
So it's it's definitely a complex battlefield that we are
1:18:21
on. Absolutely.
1:18:23
And and I just want to clarify because we haven't actually like
1:18:26
we talked about spiritual warfare and we talked about all
1:18:29
these distractions and these things that can take our time
1:18:32
and our attention. But I just want to make clear
1:18:36
that we are saying these things are just not negative things in
1:18:42
the world like. Everybody knows.
1:18:43
Anger like that can't be good for us because it feels
1:18:46
horrible, right? These, these aren't or, or even
1:18:51
on social media like, oh, we're like, Oh yeah, social media.
1:18:54
It's, it's not good for us. And you may know some reasons
1:18:57
why. But before you go into your
1:19:01
method, because I'm excited for you to, to teach your your
1:19:03
method, Andrew, explain to us how some of the things that
1:19:08
we've talked about is actually spiritual warfare.
1:19:13
Yeah, so I mean and, and, and like you mentioned with social
1:19:16
media, right, like it's a double edged sword.
1:19:18
So it can be very good, right. You can use it for good
1:19:20
purposes. You can get your algorithm so
1:19:22
that it is nothing but optimism and happiness, right, And
1:19:25
healthy, healthy videos or or whatnot, healthy posts for you
1:19:28
to interact with. But but when, when we're looking
1:19:31
at, you know, at life through this lens of spiritual warfare
1:19:34
and just realizing, like if it's something that's taking you away
1:19:37
from God or it's something that's taking you away from your
1:19:39
happiness, then then ultimately it's, it's not coming from God.
1:19:43
So it, it's coming from what we have described as like the
1:19:45
demonic realm, right. So it, if it's something that is
1:19:50
bringing you closer to your path of salvation or, or bringing you
1:19:53
closer to your relationship with God, obviously that's something
1:19:55
that's coming from God. But at the same time, you know,
1:19:58
the, the devil is a master catechist, right?
1:20:00
Like he went to the greatest catechetical school, you know,
1:20:02
known as heaven, right? That, that, that we could ever
1:20:05
even imagine. He knows Scripture, right?
1:20:07
He knows what, what our, our weaknesses are.
1:20:10
He knows to tempt us. It might not always be anger,
1:20:12
right? It it might come in the form of
1:20:14
a lucrative business opportunity or a a get rich quick scheme, or
1:20:18
a beautiful. Awful person, right?
1:20:20
Like it, it's not necessarily that it's going to come and it's
1:20:22
going to have this awful, evil, ugly face, right.
1:20:25
And, and just realizing that like this once, once you start
1:20:28
to, to, to realize like everything, you see everything
1:20:31
through a spiritual lens, then you start to realize like, OK,
1:20:35
this thing that could in fact be very good if it's take, if it's
1:20:38
a time waster, if it's taking me away from, you know, my, my
1:20:41
relationship with God, if it's just numbing my senses, it's
1:20:44
dulling my senses. Like ultimately, like, what good
1:20:46
is it for me? What is it doing for me?
1:20:50
And because we've grown so accustomed to it, you know, like
1:20:53
it's just a part of everyday life.
1:20:54
Like now we all have smartphones now everybody has social media,
1:20:57
everybody has, you know, TV, you know, so, so and everybody has
1:21:02
alcohol or caffeine or whatever, whatever, you know, source of
1:21:06
substance you might be talking about.
1:21:08
It's become so commonplace that it, it's almost like the, the
1:21:11
frog that's getting slowly cooked, right?
1:21:13
And now, because this is just what we're used to, we would
1:21:16
never look at it as something that is possibly interfering
1:21:18
with our salvation, right? But then as as soon as you
1:21:21
realize like this is taking me away from that path, then it's
1:21:25
like, OK, well then it can't be from God, right?
1:21:27
Then Then can you use it for godly purposes?
1:21:31
Can you use it for righteous ends?
1:21:33
Yes, of course you can. But ultimately that's where our
1:21:37
level of discernment comes in and our discipline comes in,
1:21:40
right? Like, are we willing to, you
1:21:41
know, kick our feet up and, and take days off right?
1:21:44
If you're on a diet and you have a crash day and all of a sudden
1:21:47
you gain a couple pounds, like it is incumbent upon you to get
1:21:50
back in the gym, get your diet right again.
1:21:52
You know, so it's, it's not necessarily a game of like this
1:21:56
is, oh, I, I failed, right? Because we all fall.
1:21:59
Like that's, that's part of being a human being, right?
1:22:02
Like we are all going to fall, we're all going to sin at some
1:22:04
point, right? So it's just important to be
1:22:06
able to recognize it. And like you alluded to, you
1:22:09
know, like the, the analogy that we're going to use is like
1:22:12
tactical combat casualty care, right?
1:22:15
So we're taught in the in the military, like if you come under
1:22:17
fire, the first thing that you do is fire back, right?
1:22:20
So what's the best way that you can fire back in spiritual
1:22:23
warfare? Invoke the name of Jesus Christ,
1:22:25
like as a Christian, right? So invoke the name of Jesus
1:22:28
Christ. Lord Jesus Christ, Son, go
1:22:31
ahead, go ahead. Even if you're not a Christian.
1:22:33
Yeah, sure, of course, even if you're not a.
1:22:35
Christian you know the the name of Jesus.
1:22:38
It has power. 100% One, 100 percent, 100% Lord Jesus Christ,
1:22:45
Son of God, have mercy on me, a Sinner.
1:22:46
Just let that be your ammunition that you're firing back, right?
1:22:49
Like let that be your ultimate form of firing back at the enemy
1:22:54
and, and casting the enemy out right step #2 of course would be
1:22:58
to, to take cover, right? So to find yourself in a
1:23:01
defensive 4 to 5 position so that when the enemies, you know,
1:23:06
ammunition is coming back your way, when rounds are coming back
1:23:08
at you, you've at least got this barrier between you and the
1:23:11
enemy, right? So at that point, that's like
1:23:14
your opportunity to maybe open the Bible, right?
1:23:17
Like maybe get control of your senses, remove the external
1:23:20
stimuli that are that are, you know, weighing you down.
1:23:23
Whatever is causing you that anger, that sadness, find
1:23:26
yourself in in a comfortable space where you can reflect on
1:23:29
the life and the teachings of Christ and the sacrifice that
1:23:32
Christ made for us. Get yourself back to that point
1:23:34
where where you're finding you're finding peace and you're
1:23:37
finding yourself stable. The right and then at that point
1:23:40
you would, you would perform self aid, right?
1:23:43
And so self aid kind of like kind of segues into what what we
1:23:46
were talking about, like be it scripture reading or saying your
1:23:49
prayers, right, repenting before God, like getting, getting
1:23:52
yourself to a point where you can, you can re establish that
1:23:55
peace and, and really find, find yourself no longer feeling the
1:24:01
pressure of the attacks that you're under, right?
1:24:03
Whatever. And, and, and again, because
1:24:05
we're talking about a complex battlefield, they could be
1:24:07
depression, it could be anger, it could be alcoholism, it could
1:24:09
be any, any of these things. But just finding yourself in
1:24:13
that fortified position, a safe space where now you can start
1:24:16
performing that self aid. Now you can, you know, give
1:24:19
yourself that opportunity to say your prayers, to read your
1:24:21
scripture. And then of course, the 4th step
1:24:24
would be to call for help, right?
1:24:25
Because sometimes we're struggling to, to apply our own
1:24:28
tourniquets or we're struggling to, you know, patch our own
1:24:30
wounds. And at that point, you know, as
1:24:32
as an Orthodox Christian, it's, that's what your spiritual
1:24:35
father is there for. That's what your father
1:24:36
confessor is there for, or your godparents, right?
1:24:40
They're your, your sponsors in the church, a trusted advisor
1:24:43
that you can reach out to a family member or a friend or
1:24:46
your spouse, right? Like it doesn't necessarily need
1:24:49
to be in this, in this Orthodox Christian framework.
1:24:52
But when you reach the point where you've returned fire,
1:24:55
you've taken cover, you perform self aid, you're still
1:24:59
struggling at that point. That's when you call for help.
1:25:01
And that's when you call out to that person that you know you
1:25:04
can trust and that you can confide in.
1:25:06
You have that confidant. You have that person that you
1:25:09
can say I'm really going through a hard time right now.
1:25:12
And then I had, I had mentioned it before, but like the that
1:25:15
friend of mine, that army brother of mine that tragically
1:25:18
took his own life, that was so hard for me because he would
1:25:22
reach out to me when he was really going through a hard, a
1:25:24
hard time. And so when I got that news and
1:25:27
that text message came through, the first thing I did was check
1:25:30
my missed calls to see if I was asleep or something to see if
1:25:33
like I missed him, him reaching out to me and that I could have
1:25:36
done something. And, you know, I looked at my
1:25:38
missed call log and, and there was no call there, you know,
1:25:40
and, and so that was, that was really heartbreaking for me, you
1:25:44
know, but like now I once I got through that dark place and like
1:25:49
once, once I was, you know, trying to climb out of that hole
1:25:52
that I was in. Now I'm like, it's my mission to
1:25:54
make sure that like nobody goes through that again, you know,
1:25:57
like, I want people to know that there is hope.
1:25:59
I want people to know that they are loved.
1:26:01
I want people to know that faith is a really powerful tool and
1:26:04
that if you do, and even if you're not a Christian, if you
1:26:07
invoke that name of Jesus, like he is not going to leave you.
1:26:09
So he's not going to leave you abandoned on, on the
1:26:12
battlefield. And the last thing that we
1:26:14
should be doing is, is isolating ourselves.
1:26:16
You know, like we, we need human interaction, you know, we need
1:26:19
to be outside. You know, I've got these gnats
1:26:21
buzzing around me, you know, but it's like I'm getting fresh air,
1:26:24
you know, it's good to be outside.
1:26:25
Like, yeah, it's, it's, it's good to be outside.
1:26:29
You know, we, we, we need, we need other people.
1:26:32
We need that natural connection. And so, so that's kind of that's
1:26:36
that's kind of the methodology that we had talked about.
1:26:38
You know, it's like, how do we apply tactical combat casualty
1:26:41
care to what we are going through on this 21st century
1:26:45
battle in the spiritual war, You know, so ultimately return fire
1:26:51
when you're having dark thoughts, when you're finding
1:26:53
yourself feeling lazy, when you're finding yourself angry or
1:26:56
depressed, invoke that name of Jesus.
1:26:59
Return fire established fire superiority over the over the
1:27:02
enemy. Take cover, find yourself
1:27:05
control your senses, remove any external stimuli that are that
1:27:08
are making you feel overstimulated.
1:27:10
Get yourself to that safe space, perform that self aid, say your
1:27:14
prayers, read your Bible right. Give yourself that time to like
1:27:18
find that inner peace to try to re establish that.
1:27:20
And if you're still struggling, or even if you're not still
1:27:22
struggling, call, call for help, right?
1:27:25
Find, find that person you can confide in.
1:27:27
If it's your, your father, confessor, if it's your
1:27:29
godparent, if it's your spouse, if it's your friend, if it's
1:27:32
your, your mom, you know, like your father, like who, whoever
1:27:35
it may be, call that person, right?
1:27:37
And just let them know. Don't live on an island.
1:27:39
Don't be isolated. Find, find that help find that
1:27:43
connection. And especially as us as military
1:27:45
people that are out now, like finding that purpose again and
1:27:49
like finding, finding your new mission in life, finding your
1:27:51
new tribe, your new people, you know, we as human beings need
1:27:55
other people like we, we need that connection.
1:27:58
So the last thing that we want to do is to be suffering in
1:28:00
silence. Wow, that's so powerful.
1:28:03
Andrew, thank you so much for joining me and our and our
1:28:08
listeners and having this important discussion.
1:28:11
Give CC and the Bebez a hug and kiss for me.
1:28:15
Of course. Until next time, I hope you all
1:28:20
will live a life of purpose, lead so that you make an impact,
1:28:25
love boldly, and leave a legacy worth leaving behind.
1:28:32
All right, love you all. Thanks for watching and
1:28:35
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