Latest / Where We Rise / 38 | "Help Grow Their Baby" | A Surrogate's Journey

Transcript

38 | "Help Grow Their Baby" | A Surrogate's Journey · Where We Rise

0:00
Khalila McCoy: Hey, I'm Khalila McCoy.
0:03
Khalila McCoy: And this is the podcast that feels like sitting with a friend.
0:07
Khalila McCoy: This is Where We Rise.
0:10
Khalila McCoy: Hi everyone.
0:13
Khalila McCoy: Welcome to Where We Rise.
0:15
Khalila McCoy: I hope you are doing wonderful today.
0:18
Khalila McCoy: Things are good on my end, but everything feels like it's moving so quickly lately.
0:22
Khalila McCoy: It feels like the days are flying.
0:24
Khalila McCoy: But hey, I am happy because it has brought us together again for a wonderful, meaningful story.
0:31
Khalila McCoy: This episode is special because I got to sit down with someone I've known for years through being a classroom teacher.
0:38
Khalila McCoy: If you've been with me for a while, back in episode four, and if you haven't checked it out, go and check it out.
0:44
Khalila McCoy: You might remember my conversation with Benica Lucas, who shared her experience in the foster care system.
0:50
Khalila McCoy: I know Bonika because I taught her son in fourth grade.
0:54
Khalila McCoy: Well, today I'm talking to Angela Higgins, or Ange, as I learned she prefers to be called.
1:01
Khalila McCoy: And I had the joy of teaching both of her children.
1:05
Khalila McCoy: Her daughter was in my fourth grade class, and then a few years later, I taught her son.
1:10
Khalila McCoy: Ange was always one of those parents who came in and brought light into the building.
1:15
Khalila McCoy: Even after her children left my elementary school, she still volunteered in the library and would just pop up with a big old smile and was always willing to chat about her life or her kids or whatever was happening that day.
1:27
Khalila McCoy: And if you've noticed, I do really love to talk to people about anything, honestly.
1:34
Khalila McCoy: And I love when they share about their different experiences.
1:37
Khalila McCoy: So when she first told me that she was a surrogate, I remember thinking, wait, what?
1:42
Khalila McCoy: I definitely need to know more because I have never met anybody who's a surrogate before.
1:47
Khalila McCoy: At the time, we didn't get to talk much about the details.
1:51
Khalila McCoy: So when I started this podcast and I reached out and she agreed to come on the show and talk to us about her experience, like the why, the how, the emotional side, the medical side, the family conversations, I was super thrilled.
2:05
Khalila McCoy: This conversation gives such a clear, honest look at what surrogacy can be.
2:11
Khalila McCoy: So let's get into it with Ange and hear her story.
2:15
Khalila McCoy: Hi, Angela.
2:19
Khalila McCoy: How are you?
2:20
Khalila McCoy: I'm good.
2:20
Khalila McCoy: How are you?
2:21
Khalila McCoy: Good.
2:22
Khalila McCoy: I'm so glad to have you on the show today.
2:24
Khalila McCoy: Thank you.
2:25
Khalila McCoy: I'm so excited to be here.
2:26
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
2:27
Khalila McCoy: So I was kind of laughing when I was doing this because I was thinking about the fact, I don't think I've ever called you Angela before.
2:37
Angela Higgins: Mrs.
2:37
Angela Higgins: Higgins probably.
2:38
Angela Higgins: Yes.
2:39
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
2:39
Khalila McCoy: So when I had your your kids in my class, I always, and when I when I have any student, right, I always call their parents like by their last name just to be respectful and kids are around.
2:48
Khalila McCoy: And then you would volunteer a lot.
2:51
Khalila McCoy: And I would always call you Miss Higgins because kids were always around.
2:54
Khalila McCoy: And I was thinking that when I was going through this, I was like, I don't think I've called her by her first name.
2:58
Khalila McCoy: So I feel like this is an official real adult conversation if I really having.
3:05
Angela Higgins: You can call me Ange.
3:06
Angela Higgins: I always go by Ange.
3:08
Khalila McCoy: Okay.
3:08
Khalila McCoy: Well, hi, Ange.
3:09
Khalila McCoy: So I'm really excited about our conversation today.
3:15
Khalila McCoy: You're going to share with us about your experience of being a surrogate.
3:18
Khalila McCoy: And I've never met anybody else who's a surrogate.
3:21
Khalila McCoy: So I'm excited to learn about the process and your experience.
3:25
Khalila McCoy: But before we jump into that, just share with everybody who you are, about your family, and then how did you decide to become a surrogate?
3:34
Angela Higgins: Okay.
3:35
Angela Higgins: Um, I'm Ang, obviously.
3:36
Angela Higgins: Um, I've been married to my husband Ty for it'll be 25 years this October.
3:41
Angela Higgins: Um, we have two children, now adult children.
3:43
Angela Higgins: Our daughter is getting ready to graduate from college and she's going into education.
3:48
Angela Higgins: A nod to uh Ms.
3:49
Angela Higgins: Kalila.
3:50
Angela Higgins: Um, and our son is 18 and he's a freshman in college right now.
3:56
Angela Higgins: Um so surrogacy is something that I first heard about when I was probably about 13 years old.
4:02
Angela Higgins: There was an article in our newspaper about it, and my mom read it to me, and we thought, oh my gosh, that's so cool how far science has come, right?
4:09
Angela Higgins: Um, and it also was just like, wow, like a person can help someone have their own child.
4:15
Angela Higgins: How cool is that?
4:15
Angela Higgins: And it just always kind of stuck with me.
4:17
Angela Higgins: Um so then when my husband and I started dating, you know, we were in that getting to know you phase, and I brought up the fact that, hey, you know, I always thought this was really cool, and I think it would be really cool to be able to help someone with this someday, even though I'd never had kids of my own, you know, been through pregnancy.
4:34
Angela Higgins: And he just kind of like, uh-huh, okay.
4:36
Angela Higgins: Um, and then after we had both of our kids and we knew we just wanted to, and it kind of was, you know, tugging at my heartstrings again.
4:44
Angela Higgins: I had had perfect pregnancies with my own kids, and I brought it up to him again.
4:49
Angela Higgins: He's like, Oh, you were actually serious?
4:51
Angela Higgins: I'm like, Yeah, I was.
4:52
Angela Higgins: Like, yeah.
4:53
Angela Higgins: So a lot of deep, heartfelt conversations, um, you know, concern about something happening to me, or you know, how our kids would perceive this, would they understand that it's not a sibling, things like that?
5:05
Angela Higgins: Um, we decided to go forward with it.
5:08
Khalila McCoy: How old were your kids when you decided to go forward?
5:12
Angela Higgins: Um, initially, when we decided, um, I want to say our daughter was probably six and Sarson was around three.
5:21
Angela Higgins: Um by the time it actually happened, um, they were like eight and five.
5:27
Angela Higgins: Okay.
5:28
Angela Higgins: So what did that conversation sound like with them?
5:31
Angela Higgins: Um, we were very, you know, we tried to explain the concept, which is that's hard, but you if you're very matter-of-fact with kids, they are like, oh, okay.
5:40
Angela Higgins: You know, I just explained that we're gonna help somebody that um her tummy doesn't help or her tummy doesn't work right to grow the baby.
5:48
Angela Higgins: And but mommy's tummy works, we're going to help grow their baby.
5:53
Angela Higgins: It's going to be their baby.
5:54
Angela Higgins: And so when it's born, it's going to live with them.
5:56
Angela Higgins: You know, it's just going to be our friend, kind of like a cousin.
5:59
Angela Higgins: Um, but it's not going to be your brother or sister.
6:02
Angela Higgins: And is that something that seems okay to you?
6:05
Angela Higgins: Does it seem like fun and exciting?
6:08
Angela Higgins: Does it scare you?
6:09
Angela Higgins: You know, and you just, you just matter-of fact and talk, and both kids are like, Oh, okay, yeah, that's cool.
6:14
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
6:14
Khalila McCoy: That's good.
6:15
Khalila McCoy: I love that they were happy about that.
6:17
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
6:18
Khalila McCoy: But they're probably like, well, I don't have to share my toys.
6:20
Angela Higgins: Right.
6:23
Khalila McCoy: So that's so cool that you were excited about this since you were 13.
6:27
Khalila McCoy: I wasn't expecting you to say that.
6:28
Khalila McCoy: It's been like a lifelong dream almost.
6:32
Angela Higgins: I mean, I'm very like, I'm very fascinated by anything medical.
6:36
Angela Higgins: Um, I mean, surgical textbooks, I love looking at all the pictures and things.
6:41
Angela Higgins: Um, so there was that aspect, but it was just very much, it just pulled on my heartstrings.
6:46
Angela Higgins: And I had been around um people that, you know, had struggled with that.
6:51
Angela Higgins: And it just made me so sad.
6:53
Khalila McCoy: So when you told Ty, was it like almost like a deal breaker for marriage that if you weren't okay with this?
7:01
Angela Higgins: So he didn't really know how serious I was about it when we got married.
7:06
Angela Higgins: And I don't think I knew how serious I was at that point.
7:08
Angela Higgins: It was just something that kind of stuck with me, and I was fascinated by it.
7:11
Angela Higgins: And I thought, you know, how cool to help someone like that.
7:13
Angela Higgins: And then, you know, we'd been married, I think, probably 10 years when I brought it up to him.
7:19
Angela Higgins: And I wanted, I wanted him.
7:20
Angela Higgins: I wouldn't have considered it if he weren't completely put up on board.
7:25
Khalila McCoy: Good.
7:25
Khalila McCoy: So tell us when you finally came to the decision, okay, I'm gonna do this.
7:30
Khalila McCoy: What was that process like?
7:32
Angela Higgins: So that was hard because I'm like, I have no idea how to go about this.
7:36
Angela Higgins: Um I actually, this is kind of funny.
7:39
Angela Higgins: My OBGYN had her child through a surrogate.
7:42
Angela Higgins: It was like her best friend.
7:44
Angela Higgins: Um, and I had actually seen this on um a show called One Born Every Minute.
7:49
Angela Higgins: I think it was at Riverside.
7:50
Angela Higgins: Do you remember that at all?
7:51
Angela Higgins: No.
7:52
Angela Higgins: TLC.
7:53
Angela Higgins: And I saw a surrogate delivering twin babies there.
7:57
Angela Higgins: And I'm like, oh my gosh.
7:58
Angela Higgins: And it was local.
7:59
Angela Higgins: I'm like, I gotta find this lady.
8:00
Angela Higgins: And so I got all, you know, Facebook stalkery and I found her, and I was like, I hope this doesn't seem weird.
8:04
Angela Higgins: I said, this is something that's really, really been tugging on my heartstrings.
8:07
Angela Higgins: Could I just meet with you and just go over?
8:09
Angela Higgins: And she's like, Absolutely.
8:11
Angela Higgins: So we met at her son's hockey practice while he was out skating and telling me everything.
8:17
Angela Higgins: And and I was like, the more she told me, the more I knew I wanted to do this.
8:21
Khalila McCoy: So tell me some of the things that she said that were exciting you.
8:25
Angela Higgins: Um, just getting to know someone and being a part of their their future.
8:31
Angela Higgins: Um what also was a concern is that I didn't know how to do this.
8:35
Angela Higgins: And so she told me that, you know, she'd gone through this agency and she told me all about them and how supported she felt by them, how the process was so thorough and and she just felt good about everything.
8:48
Angela Higgins: Can you tell us the name of the agency?
8:50
Angela Higgins: Yeah, it's called um Center for Surrogate Parenting.
8:53
Angela Higgins: I believe their main offices are in California.
8:55
Angela Higgins: Um, I worked with a branch office in Annapolis, Maryland.
9:00
Angela Higgins: Um and the process is it's really amazing.
9:04
Angela Higgins: Like there are there really are a ton of agencies out there, but some of them are just scary.
9:09
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
9:09
Angela Higgins: But they really truly, I mean, we felt entirely supported throughout the the whole process.
9:14
Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
9:15
Khalila McCoy: Now you said that's in Maryland.
9:17
Khalila McCoy: You didn't live there.
9:19
Khalila McCoy: So was your process, did you have to go out there or did they send somebody to you?
9:23
Angela Higgins: How did that work?
9:24
Angela Higgins: So the process started with me just applying online.
9:27
Angela Higgins: Um, and I was pretty heavy at the time, and I knew my weight might be an issue because they had like a set BMI that you had to be at.
9:34
Angela Higgins: And that's since since changed, thankfully.
9:36
Angela Higgins: Um so I applied, and when I told them my weight, they're like, Yeah, you need to lose some weight.
9:41
Angela Higgins: So I took, it took me about six months.
9:42
Angela Higgins: I lost 40 pounds.
9:44
Angela Higgins: And then I said, Hey, I still really want to do this.
9:45
Angela Higgins: They're like, Great.
9:46
Angela Higgins: So I applied and then I had to go through a background check, um, driving records, um, blood tests for STV, drugs, um, psychological testing, um, all before I could step foot in their offices.
10:03
Khalila McCoy: Okay.
10:03
Khalila McCoy: So they wanted to make sure you were the real deal and no shady background.
10:09
Khalila McCoy: Yep.
10:09
Khalila McCoy: Um, we hinted about this a little bit before we hit record, but tell me about the psychological questions.
10:15
Khalila McCoy: Can you give us a few?
10:17
Angela Higgins: Um, so a lot of them were I had to take the Myers-Briggs personality test, was part of it.
10:22
Angela Higgins: Um, and I take that back.
10:23
Angela Higgins: So I did meet with, I think she was a psychotherapist um with the agency.
10:28
Angela Higgins: And she had to ask me the really hard questions.
10:31
Angela Higgins: Um, what would you do in this situation?
10:33
Angela Higgins: What would you do with that?
10:34
Angela Higgins: Um, one of the really, really, really hard questions for me was um in this agreement, the intended parents would have the right to choose to abort should they find out if something was, you know, terminally wrong with her child or for Down syndrome.
10:51
Angela Higgins: And this was really hard for me.
10:53
Angela Higgins: Um, it's something, you know, I am pro-choice, but I don't know that I could ever do it.
10:59
Angela Higgins: But in order to proceed, I had to be willing to do it.
11:02
Angela Higgins: And so I said, okay.
11:04
Khalila McCoy: I think that's tough too, because it's like you don't know how your body's gonna respond to that too.
11:09
Khalila McCoy: And then it's not your choice as well.
11:11
Khalila McCoy: So I think that makes sense that it would be, you know, a hard decision to make.
11:17
Khalila McCoy: Were there other questions kind of like that that were really thought-provoking for you?
11:23
Khalila McCoy: Or anything that you were surprised, they asked.
11:28
Angela Higgins: Not too much that I can think of.
11:29
Angela Higgins: So um I had to talk a lot about like what I was seeking in this experience.
11:35
Angela Higgins: Um, did I want to be close to these, you know, parents?
11:38
Angela Higgins: Um, did I want the relationship to end as soon as the child was born?
11:42
Angela Higgins: And and I was I was very for getting to know them personally.
11:46
Angela Higgins: And um, you know, I don't expect to be a part of their family, but to see how the kids are doing, see how they're doing.
11:52
Angela Higgins: Um I don't know what kid they give us.
11:56
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
11:56
Khalila McCoy: No, those are, I mean, unfortunately, some of my surrogacy understanding comes from like a lifetime movies where you know the lady has a baby and she runs off in the middle of the night.
12:06
Khalila McCoy: So I'm sure they have to ask those questions.
12:09
Khalila McCoy: Right.
12:09
Angela Higgins: And there are, and that's part of the reason for the psychological testing.
12:12
Angela Higgins: Um, there was an issue at one point where they found out that I had had a history of depression.
12:17
Angela Higgins: And so I had to go through the gamut explaining myself that, you know, it had been situational.
12:22
Angela Higgins: I haven't had any issues with that for the past, you know, it was like 15 years.
12:26
Angela Higgins: Um you do, you really have to become an open book and you are, you are under the spotlight.
12:30
Angela Higgins: And it's very, it's very uncomfortable, but it was all, you know, for the greater good.
12:34
Angela Higgins: I really, really, really felt pulled to do this.
12:37
Khalila McCoy: So after you go through all the testing and stuff, do they sit with you and talk to you about your answers or things like that?
12:43
Khalila McCoy: Or do they just say, yes, you passed, no, you didn't pass, things like that, or is it more of a Yes?
12:48
Angela Higgins: Um, they did sit and talk and and basically I was told, yes, we think you're a good candidate.
12:53
Angela Higgins: Um, they met with my husband as well because they had to make sure that, you know, I had a good support system and that he was completely on board with all of this.
12:59
Angela Higgins: Um, but he also had to make quite a few sacrifices in this too.
13:03
Angela Higgins: Um uh for one, you know, worrying about his wife, the changes that I'd be going through, physical, emotional.
13:09
Angela Higgins: And there's also the possibility of, you know, just something happening to me.
13:13
Angela Higgins: And um, actually, the intended parents did have to take out a life insurance policy on me because of that, just in case.
13:19
Angela Higgins: Okay.
13:20
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
13:21
Angela Higgins: Wow.
13:21
Angela Higgins: But they did a lot.
13:23
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
13:23
Angela Higgins: There's a lot to think about.
13:25
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
13:25
Angela Higgins: They told me I was approved.
13:27
Angela Higgins: And from that point on, um, we discussed what I was looking for in our match.
13:34
Angela Higgins: Um, and then my husband and I put together a profile of us and our family.
13:39
Angela Higgins: And then um, these intended parents were all putting together profiles.
13:42
Angela Higgins: And unfortunately, as it goes, there are a lot more parents in need than there are surrogates available.
13:48
Angela Higgins: So it's really heartbreaking hearing some of these stories.
13:50
Angela Higgins: Um, that we put together a profile and they gave us three to look at.
13:55
Angela Higgins: And my husband and I, we looked through all three, you know, together.
13:58
Angela Higgins: And then we said, okay, do you have a favorite?
14:00
Angela Higgins: Yep, I have a favorite too.
14:01
Angela Higgins: On the count of three, let's say who it is.
14:02
Angela Higgins: And it was the exact same couple.
14:03
Angela Higgins: So that was really cool.
14:04
Khalila McCoy: Perfect.
14:05
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
14:06
Khalila McCoy: What was it about then that stood out to you?
14:09
Angela Higgins: Um, their personalities.
14:11
Angela Higgins: Um, and I'll be honest, one one of the families that was looking for help already had older children, and these people had not.
14:18
Angela Higgins: Um, they've been through a lot of heartache um trying to get pregnant.
14:22
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
14:22
Angela Higgins: And miscarrying every time.
14:25
Khalila McCoy: So you make a profile of a family that you would be interested in working with, and then they send you profiles that match.
14:32
Khalila McCoy: So are you the one who gets to pick first then?
14:36
Angela Higgins: Yes, ultimately.
14:36
Angela Higgins: So we let the agency know, hey, you know, this is the family we're interested in.
14:41
Angela Higgins: And so then they connect with that family and say, hey, we have a surrogate that's interested in meeting you.
14:46
Angela Higgins: And so then they say, Yes, okay.
14:48
Angela Higgins: So then they fly both families in um to meet in their Annapolis office with the psychotherapist, and she kind of just guides the meeting.
14:55
Angela Higgins: And it was kind of funny because I was the most nervous I've ever been in my entire life.
14:58
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
14:58
Angela Higgins: Do you feel like you're gonna be judged?
15:00
Angela Higgins: And you know, right.
15:01
Angela Higgins: Um so the therapist, I guess her thing that she likes to do is she likes to have the couple arrive first and then answer the door when we get there.
15:11
Angela Higgins: You're face to face with them immediately, you know.
15:15
Angela Higgins: Did you know they were gonna be answering the door?
15:17
Angela Higgins: No.
15:18
Angela Higgins: It was very nerve, a lot a lot of nervous giggles.
15:22
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
15:22
Angela Higgins: They were nervous as well.
15:25
Khalila McCoy: Right.
15:26
Khalila McCoy: Yeah, that's so interesting.
15:27
Khalila McCoy: I would have thought that the parents would look through the surrogates first and then pick which one they thought was gonna be the best bet.
15:34
Khalila McCoy: So that's kind of an interesting twist.
15:36
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
15:37
Khalila McCoy: Um, so you get there, you meet them, you meet with the um the psych what is it the psychologist?
15:43
Khalila McCoy: Psychotherapist, I think.
15:45
Khalila McCoy: I think you meet with the so-called Oh my goodness, I can't say the word.
15:48
Khalila McCoy: You meet with her first.
15:50
Khalila McCoy: And she's this kind of introducing you guys and helping you guys break the ice.
15:54
Khalila McCoy: Is that the the idea?
15:56
Angela Higgins: It was just like a guided, friendly session of getting to know each other.
16:00
Angela Higgins: That is when we had to discuss the hard stuff, you know, what would happen in this situation?
16:04
Angela Higgins: Are you on board with this?
16:05
Angela Higgins: And it wasn't, I mean, the meeting was maybe like an hour and a half.
16:09
Angela Higgins: Um, and that from that point, she sends us off to lunch together.
16:13
Angela Higgins: Oh, so I had I had as a gift, I had made some buckeyes um and brought those to give to him.
16:20
Angela Higgins: And uh we went to lunch.
16:21
Angela Higgins: You have had your buckeyes before they are.
16:23
Angela Higgins: Good.
16:24
Angela Higgins: Thank you.
16:25
Angela Higgins: We actually went to lunch at the airport.
16:28
Angela Higgins: Um and, you know, we got we just asked about each other's lives and backgrounds and um got to know each other.
16:36
Angela Higgins: And then when that was over, we said our goodbyes.
16:39
Angela Higgins: Um and then the funny thing is is that I had to fly back home, you know, here to Columbus.
16:46
Angela Higgins: But my husband was on his way to a business trip.
16:49
Angela Higgins: And at the time, they lived in a different state and they were on the exact same flight.
16:54
Angela Higgins: And it was Southwest, so you pick your own seats.
16:56
Angela Higgins: So the three of them sat together the entire way and talked nonstop.
17:00
Angela Higgins: And here I am on my own flight, you know, twiddling my thumb, so nervous, you know.
17:03
Angela Higgins: And as soon as he gets off his flight and I'm off mine, we we talk and we're both like, I love them, I love them.
17:08
Angela Higgins: I'm like, yes, meet you.
17:09
Angela Higgins: And he's like, I think they like you.
17:10
Angela Higgins: I really think this is gonna go well.
17:11
Angela Higgins: And so then I don't remember who had to reach out first, if it was them or me, but basically saying, Hey, I'd really like to go forward with this if you would like to as well.
17:20
Angela Higgins: And it was just like one big love fest, like, we're so excited for this journey with you.
17:25
Angela Higgins: And yeah, it was great.
17:26
Khalila McCoy: That's so cool.
17:28
Khalila McCoy: Okay, so then you guys said you match, you guys liked each other, and then you just start the process.
17:34
Angela Higgins: Yes.
17:34
Angela Higgins: So the process, um, they had me go to their um fertility doctor.
17:41
Angela Higgins: Um, and they just kind of checked out me, you know, like checking the car out, making sure everything works.
17:46
Angela Higgins: And I had, you know, completely easy pregnancies with my own kids.
17:49
Angela Higgins: Um, but this is kind of funny.
17:51
Angela Higgins: During one of the exams, she was doing an internal ultrasound.
17:54
Angela Higgins: And she looks at me, she's like, Are you constipated?
17:57
Angela Higgins: I said, No.
17:58
Angela Higgins: We're just morning.
18:00
Angela Higgins: Um, she says, Okay, well, I need you to go home to your regular gynecologist.
18:04
Angela Higgins: And during a certain, you know, phase in your cycle, you need to have another internal ultrasound.
18:08
Angela Higgins: And she didn't tell me why.
18:09
Angela Higgins: So I went home and I did that.
18:11
Angela Higgins: And my gynecologist told me I had something called a dermoid cyst.
18:14
Angela Higgins: Um, and it's it's benign.
18:16
Angela Higgins: Um, it's something that a lot of people have from birth and it just grows slowly.
18:20
Angela Higgins: Mine was attached to my right uterus, or my right, sorry.
18:24
Angela Higgins: My my right ovary.
18:27
Angela Higgins: Okay.
18:28
Angela Higgins: And um it's and so I love, you know, I love medical stuff.
18:34
Angela Higgins: So I'm Dr.
18:34
Angela Higgins: Google, you know, I want to learn all about this.
18:36
Angela Higgins: And apparently they are known to have um hair, bone, and teeth.
18:42
Angela Higgins: And it was an old lifestyle that supposedly when you had one of these, you swallowed your twin in the womb where you made this.
18:48
Angela Higgins: And so, you know, they wanted me to have it removed before we proceeded.
18:53
Angela Higgins: It wouldn't have affected a pregnancy, but they they felt better about me having it removed.
18:56
Angela Higgins: I'm like, okay.
18:57
Angela Higgins: Um, and so I told my doctor, I'm like, I need to see this thing.
19:01
Angela Higgins: And she's like, All right, fine, I'll take some pictures for you.
19:04
Angela Higgins: And so, you know, she did the surgery, put it in the little tray, and her, she had medical interns with her, and they were getting ready to take it to the lab.
19:11
Angela Higgins: And she's like, wait, wait, wait.
19:12
Angela Higgins: And they're like, What?
19:13
Angela Higgins: And she says, I need to cut into it.
19:14
Angela Higgins: And they're like, Oh, but doesn't the lab do that?
19:18
Angela Higgins: She's like, if you knew my patient, you'd understand.
19:20
Angela Higgins: And so she took pictures and it had tons of blonde curly hair.
19:27
Angela Higgins: Um incisors and some bone.
19:31
Khalila McCoy: Yes.
19:31
Khalila McCoy: Oh my goodness.
19:32
Khalila McCoy: So it is really did you eat your twin?
19:35
Khalila McCoy: I guess.
19:36
Khalila McCoy: I don't know.
19:37
Khalila McCoy: That is so interesting.
19:39
Khalila McCoy: I love that you asked to see a picture of it too.
19:41
Khalila McCoy: Oh, I'm still fascinated.
19:43
Angela Higgins: It was about the size of a small orange.
19:45
Angela Higgins: And they did have to take my whole ovary.
19:47
Angela Higgins: Um, yeah, my whole ovary.
19:48
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
19:48
Khalila McCoy: I'll say, because that's still pretty large considering where it was.
19:51
Khalila McCoy: If it was a yeah.
19:53
Angela Higgins: And they asked how anything.
19:55
Khalila McCoy: I'm sorry.
19:55
Khalila McCoy: How was your recovery and everything from that?
19:57
Khalila McCoy: Were you did you have that um like prolong you um?
20:02
Angela Higgins: We did it laparoscopically, so it wasn't too bad, but they did have to um stretch a bunch of my like abdominal muscles.
20:08
Angela Higgins: So that was painful for a while.
20:10
Angela Higgins: And I think, gosh, I think that was like in 2012, and we didn't end up finally doing the transfer until early February of 2013.
20:19
Khalila McCoy: Okay.
20:20
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
20:21
Khalila McCoy: Now, is it typical that you would wait that long after both parties have said, yes, we're ready to go forward with this, or is it because of it?
20:28
Khalila McCoy: Okay.
20:29
Khalila McCoy: I was so frustrated because I was like ready to get on board.
20:32
Khalila McCoy: Let's do this.
20:32
Khalila McCoy: Now, during the pregnancy, do you keep in touch with the parents and letting them know um, like how doctor's appointments are going and things like that?
20:43
Angela Higgins: Yes.
20:43
Angela Higgins: We were very lucky, lucky that they're um close enough that they were able to make it to most of the doctor's appointments that get to their ultrasounds.
20:50
Angela Higgins: And um they, I'm trying to think for the first one if we found out what it was.
20:56
Angela Higgins: I don't remember, but yeah, they they were there for everything.
20:58
Angela Higgins: And they really got to grow up the bond with my OBGYN because of her situation as well, having her son through a surrogate.
21:04
Angela Higgins: So that was really neat.
21:05
Angela Higgins: We had um weekly um video chats, and that was like part of the contract.
21:11
Angela Higgins: Um, and it was really cool.
21:12
Angela Higgins: We got to know them, and like whenever we could, we'd you know, after the appointments, we'd go out to eat, and they're just really great people.
21:18
Khalila McCoy: Neat.
21:19
Khalila McCoy: Now, how much of a say or control, if you will, do they have over what you're doing during the pregnancy?
21:25
Khalila McCoy: Like, could they say, like, oh, we only want you to like be a vegan while you're pregnant with our baby, or please don't go play tennis?
21:31
Khalila McCoy: You know what I mean?
21:31
Khalila McCoy: Like, could they ask you any of that stuff?
21:34
Angela Higgins: Or so that is something that could have potentially been like negotiated into the contract.
21:39
Angela Higgins: I was very lucky in that they were extremely laid back.
21:42
Angela Higgins: Like, I was even like, hey, I hope you know I'm not doing this or I'm not doing that.
21:45
Angela Higgins: They weren't pushing it all.
21:47
Angela Higgins: Um, with the agency, we actually had quarterly meetings in Annapolis with all of the surrogates.
21:52
Angela Higgins: Um, and so we would have like little roundtable sessions with everybody, what phase they're in.
21:57
Angela Higgins: You know, we'd cheer on the great stories or the people who were having trouble, you know, getting pregnant, things like that.
22:03
Angela Higgins: It was really cool.
22:04
Angela Higgins: Um so some of the other surrogates did have that.
22:07
Angela Higgins: One, one of them, um, her I am intended mother was a nutritionist.
22:12
Angela Higgins: And so she wanted her to keep a daily log of everything that went in her mouth.
22:16
Angela Higgins: And I felt so bad for her.
22:18
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
22:18
Angela Higgins: Um my contract, it basically had the basics.
22:21
Angela Higgins: You're supposed to avoid like deli meats with the nitrates in it, um, not handle any rodents, don't clean litter boxes, things like that, which I was very happy to give up the litter box duty.
22:30
Angela Higgins: Oh yeah, I'm sure.
22:31
Angela Higgins: However, our son Calvin had a pet hamster at the time.
22:35
Angela Higgins: And I had strangely, I'd fallen in love with this hamster because I had to tame it because it was really wild at first.
22:40
Angela Higgins: And I loved this hamster, but I wasn't allowed to touch it during the entire pregnancy.
22:43
Angela Higgins: And unfortunately it passed way before we had the baby.
22:47
Khalila McCoy: Really?
22:47
Khalila McCoy: That's so sad.
22:49
Khalila McCoy: Oh, I'm sorry.
22:51
Khalila McCoy: That is a sacrifice.
22:54
Khalila McCoy: Also during the pregnancy did you said the parents were pretty close by and things like that.
23:03
Khalila McCoy: So you got to get to know them pretty well.
23:05
Khalila McCoy: And then you also talked about kind of almost a support group, right?
23:09
Khalila McCoy: With the other surrogates.
23:10
Khalila McCoy: Did you create friendships from that?
23:12
Khalila McCoy: Oh absolutely lifelong.
23:14
Khalila McCoy: I'm still friends with so many of them.
23:15
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
23:15
Khalila McCoy: That's awesome.
23:17
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
23:17
Khalila McCoy: Now once you had the baby and then so can you are you allowed to tell us like are you still contacting with the family?
23:24
Khalila McCoy: Do you get pictures?
23:27
Angela Higgins: Yes, we are very much still in contact.
23:29
Angela Higgins: Um I am the kids don't really know how I fit in and I truly that I believe that that's up to the parents you know when and if they tell them I am just Miss Ange, a family friend.
23:39
Angela Higgins: I send them birthday gifts, Christmas gifts.
23:41
Angela Higgins: We'll get together occasionally.
23:42
Angela Higgins: So yeah.
23:44
Khalila McCoy: Now you said earlier the first one.
23:46
Khalila McCoy: So how many times have you been a surrogate?
23:48
Angela Higgins: So I have been a surrogate twice for the same family.
23:52
Angela Higgins: Okay.
23:53
Angela Higgins: The first one I I gave birth to a boy in 2013.
23:57
Angela Higgins: So it's funny because the transfer was literally in February of 2013, but because you're transferring an embryo um it's already partially developed.
24:05
Angela Higgins: So you're not technically pregnant the whole time.
24:07
Angela Higgins: I see okay and then I had boy girl twins or yeah boy girl twins for them in 2015.
24:13
Angela Higgins: Hmm so twins was that a surpr well you did was that a surprise or do you know?
24:18
Angela Higgins: No so um they had a total of four viable embryos.
24:23
Angela Higgins: Okay.
24:23
Angela Higgins: And so for the first one they they the doctors always kind of insisted on transferring two which made me a little nervous because I was like oh I don't want to have twins.
24:30
Angela Higgins: Um the first time they transferred to one they said was like super embryo and then the other one was you know not quite as strong.
24:39
Angela Higgins: Only the one the only the one took and so we ended up having one baby.
24:43
Angela Higgins: And honestly at the delivery as soon as it was over I was like let's do this again I know you've got two more and they they waited probably like six months afterwards because they wanted me to recover.
24:55
Angela Higgins: They didn't want to pressure me and they they said we were kind of wondering I'm like I told you yes absolutely yeah oh so you were like back to back.
25:04
Angela Higgins: I mean I did have time to recover.
25:05
Angela Higgins: It was probably I mean they're like I mean my gosh they're they're what a little over a year and a half apart I think maybe two and a half years actually I think no year and a half.
25:15
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
25:15
Angela Higgins: How was it having twins?
25:18
Angela Higgins: Um that was different.
25:19
Angela Higgins: Um it it takes a huge toll on your body um my belly got huge which is expected of course I had a lot of swelling in my hands and feet um it was very very cool to feel the dueling baby movement just like I had little aliens in there.
25:35
Angela Higgins: But overall it wasn't bad a lot more appointments.
25:39
Angela Higgins: And the cool thing with the twins is that um we had the ultrasound tech put in an envelope for both of us um what it was and then we went home and we called each other because we looked at the results separately to talk about it.
25:54
Angela Higgins: And so we saw a boy girl and my husband thinks it's funny.
25:57
Angela Higgins: So when we get on the video chat he's like oh my God guys I can't believe you're having two girls oh you don't know what you're getting into.
26:03
Angela Higgins: And they were like wait what what what?
26:05
Angela Higgins: You're so confused and like who messed up and he's like I'm just kidding.
26:09
Angela Higgins: Yeah that's funny.
26:11
Angela Higgins: And they did do a gender reveal for the first baby that was fun too.
26:15
Khalila McCoy: Now when you because obviously like when we're you know when women are pregnant people you know congratulations what are you having things like that did you just accept that or did you ever say oh well I'm actually like a surrogate or it depended like you know how well I knew the person if it was a stranger.
26:31
Angela Higgins: If I felt like they just had a good vibe I'm like you know what?
26:34
Angela Higgins: And I still get asked constantly because I'll have doctor's appointments and they'll go over my history.
26:38
Angela Higgins: They're like okay now you've delivered or had so many pregnancies and I was like well only two of them are mine.
26:43
Angela Higgins: You know talking about it.
26:45
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
26:45
Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
26:46
Khalila McCoy: What's something that you like to share with people like when you're talking about surrogacy like is there anything that you feel like oh it would be really cool if more people knew you know XYZ about being a surrogate or having a surrogate?
27:00
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
27:01
Angela Higgins: Um it's more attainable than you think.
27:05
Angela Higgins: Um it is hard to find people willing to do that though because it is it's a huge thing.
27:10
Angela Higgins: Um you know I like to tell people how incredibly supported I felt through the entire process.
27:15
Angela Higgins: Um traditionally surrogacy used to be a traditional surrogacy was when the woman was artificially inseminated with the sperm.
27:25
Angela Higgins: So it was still genetically her child.
27:27
Angela Higgins: I couldn't have done that.
27:28
Angela Higgins: I know I wouldn't have been able to separate my heart you know right yeah so I was what's called a gestational surrogate um where they created the embryo in the lab and then it was implanted in me.
27:39
Angela Higgins: Um and it it was great.
27:41
Angela Higgins: Like I just just being able to help someone like that and you know getting to watch someone's family happen is just the most amazing feeling.
27:48
Angela Higgins: I mean Ty in the in the delivery room he's like oh my gosh I this is I I will never forget this moment.
27:54
Angela Higgins: Mm-hmm.
27:55
Khalila McCoy: That's awesome that he was so on board with it and in involved at it every step of the way too oh he gave me my my shots every night that I had to have uh so continuing to kind of think about other people as they think about maybe having a surrogate for themselves you talked about the importance of really doing your research when you pick a company to work with what would be something that you suggest people look for or be aware of um look at the Better Business Bureau reading.
28:26
Angela Higgins: I mean that that's always a good place to start.
28:28
Angela Higgins: Look for reviews not necessarily on the website of the of the agency look for Google reviews, Yahoo reviews.
28:34
Angela Higgins: One thing that I loved about my agency is how long they had been around and I found out actually that a lot of the employees who work there had been surrogates themselves.
28:45
Angela Higgins: They believed so much in it.
28:46
Angela Higgins: And actually one of the employees there was the first ever surrogate baby.
28:52
Khalila McCoy: Wow that was really cool.
28:53
Angela Higgins: I think she was born in like the 80s.
28:55
Khalila McCoy: Okay that's really neat.
28:57
Khalila McCoy: Yeah what would you say to someone who's considering like hey do I want to be a surrogate or something like that?
29:03
Khalila McCoy: What would you want them to kind of consider mentally and before they stepped into this role um consider the emotional toll, the physical toll.
29:13
Angela Higgins: You really need to make sure that not just your immediate family but your entire family is supportive of you.
29:18
Angela Higgins: You know, there was some concern in the beginning from some of them, but everybody eventually was on board and again mostly just worried that something might happen to me.
29:27
Khalila McCoy: It's a good consideration I would again I wouldn't have thought about like the whole entire family right because you know holidays and things like that are just you know the group texts in the family you want to make sure that people are sending you positive thoughts and aren't you know hoping for your downfall in any way.
29:42
Khalila McCoy: So that is really good to think about as well.
29:45
Angela Higgins: Plus you need someone to watch the kids when you're in the hospital That's very true.
29:51
Angela Higgins: Now do you feel like too like because you already had your two children you were able to kind of give of yourself in that way yes um I think if anything having my own two two children like really solidified me wanting to do this because I knew how amazing it was to have my own little family and I just so desperately wanted to be able to help someone else do that.
30:16
Khalila McCoy: Yeah that's awesome.
30:18
Khalila McCoy: So thinking about having shared your story and just people out there listening what would you want their takeaway to be from what you've experienced you really don't know what someone's going through.
30:32
Angela Higgins: Um don't judge them by their cover.
30:34
Angela Higgins: Um really we are so connected we just don't realize it you know take take the time to talk to someone ask them how they're doing you know get to know them I like that.
30:46
Khalila McCoy: Now you are done being a surrogate now correct?
30:49
Angela Higgins: Yes unfortunately with the twin pregnancy I had um I was about 20 weeks along and I started having really severe headaches and vision issues and then I woke up one morning with tunnel vision and we're like okay something's wrong.
31:02
Angela Higgins: It turned out to be a pituitary tumor pressing against my optic nerve and unfortunately they had to do emergency surgery.
31:08
Angela Higgins: So I was in a panic I was so worried about you know these parents like oh my gosh they're probably scared to death and anybody who talked to me at all in the hospital was like I am pregnant with twins don't do anything that's gonna hurt them.
31:19
Angela Higgins: I will have the surgery awake if I have to so that was scary.
31:24
Angela Higgins: Yeah but that was taken care of and you're okay now.
31:28
Angela Higgins: Oh yeah um unfortunately I did I did look into the possibility of continuing on to be a surrogate for someone else um but the doctors don't recommend that I do because they do think that the um the pregnancy hormones exacerbated that situation.
31:42
Angela Higgins: I see yeah tell us a little bit how did that feel hearing that news um I honestly I wasn't scared I mean I was scared you know but I was I was so worried about what the parents would think and not not what they would think but how they were feeling and like I wanted them to know that you know I'm gonna do everything I can to protect these babies even though you know what really I don't know what I can do to protect these babies other than advocate for them.
32:08
Khalila McCoy: Right.
32:09
Angela Higgins: So it was scared.
32:10
Angela Higgins: I was really worried for them.
32:11
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
32:12
Khalila McCoy: And then knowing that you were essentially done being able to help people in that way, did that take a toll on you as well?
32:21
Angela Higgins: Yeah there was a definite definite uh mourning time in that um one of my best friends uh has gone through cancer multiple times and she froze her embryos and I was always like hey sister I am there for you whenever you want and now it's not recommended me for for me to be pregnant again and unfortunately I have to take my own health first.
32:41
Angela Higgins: Right.
32:42
Khalila McCoy: Well not unfortunately that's still a good thing.
32:45
Khalila McCoy: Yeah you I'm sure your family is very happy that you were listening to the doctors and to your body but I understand what you mean and you want it to be there for her in that situation.
32:56
Angela Higgins: Yeah yeah well I think it's wonderful that you've done that I knew I don't think well I might have known you I don't know what did I know you during the first pregnancy or during the twins or both I think you knew me for the second because was in your class the year after I had the first baby.
33:20
Angela Higgins: Okay so maybe you knew because I was I think I was still volunteering around the school.
33:23
Khalila McCoy: I don't I'm not sure yes I remember seeing you and you're you know you were pregnant and I was like oh that's a that's a big age gap.
33:31
Khalila McCoy: That's pretty cool you guys are starting over and you're like no no and I was very like impressed that you were doing that and you shared a little bit about just the passion that you had and how excited you were and you know you were glowing and you glow anyways.
33:45
Khalila McCoy: You're always such a happy positive person but I could tell that you were really excited to be doing this for somebody.
33:51
Khalila McCoy: So that's really neat.
33:53
Khalila McCoy: And that's you know three children are here having a wonderful life because of the sacrifices that you made and everything that you and your family were willing to do.
34:01
Khalila McCoy: So I hope that always stays with you.
34:05
Angela Higgins: My husband likes to joke that I've had more children for another family than for his own I love the things that he says I've like he's just like a laugh right the whole time constantly constantly it was kind of funny when I was in labor with the first baby they had me in all sorts of different positions to get the baby to turn this that and the other and um you know there were certain positions where I was passing gas and I couldn't help it.
34:35
Angela Higgins: It was the contractions making it happen.
34:37
Angela Higgins: And so talking and the parents are sitting there laughing hysterically at me and then they're like eating snacks in front of me and you're not allowed to eat when you're in labor.
34:46
Angela Higgins: I'm like where's the sympathy?
34:52
Angela Higgins: Honestly that was truly the hardest part with um things coming to an end, having the baby you're so excited to meet the baby I never once had a feeling of oh my gosh I'm giving my baby away.
35:03
Angela Higgins: I knew from the get go, no, I'm just helping this baby grow.
35:06
Angela Higgins: It's their baby but it was so hard you know leaving the hospital and watching them go and knowing that oh my gosh they're gonna be so busy we're not gonna have times for the you know all the calls and costs and of course they keep in touch and they send you know videos all the time things but it's not quite the same because they're busy it is kind of new parents yeah yeah now something we didn't talk about was as far as like finances for especially for the parents like if you're somebody who wants to be a surrogate what is that's I'm assuming pretty expensive right yeah it is I mean I gosh back when I was a surrogate I I heard an estimate of like every embryo transfer was literally like $10,000.
35:50
Angela Higgins: Wow it's crazy.
35:52
Angela Higgins: So that's something that it's hard for me to talk about um there is payment involved for the surrogate I really struggle with that it makes me feel a little bit yucky but you know it was described to me as this for pain and suffering and you know I had to miss work for a while too so that covered that um but I it it wasn't that's another thing too with with agencies you need to look out if they're offering some outlandish amount of money run they're not in it for the right reasons they're not going to support you properly um you know it was nice I paid off some debt and took our kids on a Disney cruise.
36:26
Angela Higgins: So everybody, you know, it was kind of a re reward for the family because they went through this with me too.
36:32
Khalila McCoy: Mm-hmm.
36:32
Khalila McCoy: I've heard people you know talk about not surrogates but parent people who get have a surrogate.
36:38
Khalila McCoy: You know, sometimes there's the assumption of like oh you know you're like the snooty person.
36:42
Khalila McCoy: But kind of hearing you talk about that too is that understanding like you know some people are really sacrificing like they really want to have a baby and this is a great opportunity for them to do this.
36:52
Khalila McCoy: Like you said all the things with the embryo the prices that they're paying this is a sacrifice for them as well.
36:58
Khalila McCoy: And I just you know I like that you said that because I don't I don't want people to think that you know everybody who chooses this method is not a caring person as well.
37:09
Angela Higgins: So I mean I know I you hear about the stories of the celebrities who oh I don't want to get fat.
37:14
Angela Higgins: I don't want to, you know, and there's there's gonna be that out there, but the majority of the people just genuinely they just so desperately want a family of their own.
37:21
Khalila McCoy: Right.
37:22
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
37:22
Khalila McCoy: And like you said there are more families seeking than there are surrogates out there.
37:27
Khalila McCoy: When you were with um you know like the so I don't know surrogate support group type of thing.
37:34
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
37:34
Khalila McCoy: Was there what would you say like the age range was?
37:38
Angela Higgins: Um so that's interesting too.
37:40
Angela Higgins: So I think the youngest girl I saw there was maybe in her mid-20s.
37:44
Angela Higgins: Um they do want you to have at least one child of your own and you know to have had a healthy you know pregnancy and delivery.
37:51
Angela Higgins: The cutoff at the time I think was 38.
37:54
Angela Higgins: However um there was a surrogate I know who had done it five times um and she was 42 I think and they allowed her to do another one because the the parents were like yep let's do it you know they loved her they wanted to work with her again.
38:10
Angela Higgins: I think since they have changed some of the um the regulations because people are having babies you know well after 38.
38:18
Angela Higgins: The BMI issue too, you know, I was heavier when I had my kids I still had perfect babies you know as long as you're healthy.
38:24
Angela Higgins: Yeah.
38:26
Khalila McCoy: Now is there do they limit how many like if you start at 20 are they like okay you can do five and then you know that's it because we don't want to stretch you know this on too long or is it just as long as you're fertile and having good pregnancies allow you to keep going.
38:39
Angela Higgins: It a lot of it depended on the fertility doctor you were working with.
38:42
Angela Higgins: Some had very strict limits um you know like somewhere between like three and four kids they wanted you to stop or pregnancies they wanted you to stop after that.
38:49
Angela Higgins: Some people it it I I don't want to say this it's almost like an addiction in that like you're playing fairy godmother and it's the best feeling in the world.
38:59
Angela Higgins: You're like here I'm gonna help you achieve this goal that you can't achieve without me you know yeah really cool.
39:04
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
39:04
Khalila McCoy: And like you said you really enjoyed your pregnancies as well.
39:08
Khalila McCoy: So yeah.
39:09
Khalila McCoy: I met a lady one time she's like if it should just be my job to have babies all the time I would just have them and that's a lot there that is a thing.
39:19
Khalila McCoy: Yeah.
39:20
Khalila McCoy: But yeah she just said that her pregnancy was so great and that's awesome.
39:26
Khalila McCoy: Well Angie I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me today and sharing about you know your experience as a surrogate.
39:35
Khalila McCoy: Thank you so much for having me.
39:36
Khalila McCoy: I really appreciate it.
39:37
Khalila McCoy: Yeah it's been fun hearing the story and I will link in our show notes the organization that you use.
39:44
Khalila McCoy: Would you be okay if we shared some information about you if somebody wanted to reach out and ask you questions about being a surrogate.
39:51
Angela Higgins: Absolutely I am an absolute open book.
39:52
Angela Higgins: This is one of my favorite topics I'm so passionate about it.
39:55
Angela Higgins: So absolutely.
39:56
Khalila McCoy: Yeah and I forgot to mention you said that you go down to Miami University and actually talk to a class about being a surrogate right it's kind of funny.
40:03
Angela Higgins: My daughter is an education major and she took a class I think it's called child development and a topic came up one day um I think it was about breastfeeding or something and someone said well how would that affect a surrogate?
40:15
Angela Higgins: And the professor said you know I don't know we'd we'll have to find one to come talk and and Paige is like my mom's a surrogate and so public speaking is not my forte.
40:25
Angela Higgins: I get so nervous every time but I've gone down for like the past three years now every semester and spoken to classes about this.
40:32
Angela Higgins: So you just share your experience then and I just share my class your experience.
40:36
Angela Higgins: Yeah I I send around the pictures of the dermoid cyst they all like that I know I was gonna ask you like can I see this picture?
40:44
Khalila McCoy: It sounds very you'll have to send it to me.
40:47
Angela Higgins: I will what type of questions do the students usually ask you um they ask a lot about you know what do you do when a stranger asks you about your pregnancy do you tell them you're a surrogate um they ask if the kids know you know that I carried them um they ask about you know a lot of the same questions you've asked about family support um if I was sad you know when the baby was gone and things like that.
41:16
Khalila McCoy: So yeah yeah that's neat that you get to do that.
41:19
Khalila McCoy: Thanks all right well that's all I have for you today.
41:25
Khalila McCoy: And like I said thank you so much for your time and I really appreciate everything that you've shared.
41:30
Angela Higgins: You are very welcome.
41:31
Khalila McCoy: Thank you so much it was so great spending this time with Ange.
41:37
Khalila McCoy: I've known her for a long time as my student's parent but getting to sit down and hear her walk through her surrogacy journey the heart behind it the process the sacrifices the joy gave me such a deeper appreciation for who she is for me it's always so refreshing to talk to somebody I know and learn new things about them to hear about the quiet, meaningful ways they've shown up in the world surrogacy is something many of us don't get to see up close and I'm grateful Ange was willing to open that door for us.
42:11
Khalila McCoy: Her honesty, her compassion and her willingness to help another family grow is the kind of story that reminds you how many different ways people choose to show love.
42:22
Khalila McCoy: I hope this episode encourages you to carry a bit of curiosity about the people in your own life knowing that every person carries a story that you haven't heard yet but it's a story that can inspire you and lift up others.
42:37
Khalila McCoy: Thank you, Ange, for sharing your experience and for the lives you've helped make possible.
42:43
Khalila McCoy: And thank you friend for listening today it would not be the same without you here with me.
42:50
Khalila McCoy: As you move through the rest of your day I hope you take a moment to listen a little louder to yourself to the people you love and to the things that connect us in ways we sometimes forget to notice.
43:03
Khalila McCoy: I'll meet you back here next time.
43:06
Khalila McCoy: See you bye