Latest / The Academic Coaching Podcast / Student Series: Seven Years later, Coaching Finally Clicked | Frankie Trevor

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Student Series: Seven Years later, Coaching Finally Clicked | Frankie Trevor · The Academic Coaching Podcast

• 0:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So from a high school student with a 1.39 GPA to presidential that you've said honor roll to law school, Frankie Trevor.
• 0:15
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, it took seven years, but it's working now.
• 0:20
  Welcome to the Academic Coaching Podcast, brought to you by the Anti-Boring Learning Lab.
• 0:26
  I am your host, Gretchen Wegner, and this is the show where we dig into the craft of coaching students, the study skills, the executive function strategies, and the occasional business tip for those of you in private practice.
• 0:40
  Today is a very special episode because one of the main reasons I wanted to start a podcast is I wanted to have a platform on which I could interview former clients of mine about what academic coaching was like for them back in the day, and what are some of the strategies that we worked on that have made their way into their future schooling and job careers, as well as if they have anything they want to tell me about what didn't go well with coaching that they'd like me to do better.
• 1:17
  And today is the very first one, so I'm so thrilled to introduce you to my former client, Frankie Trevor.
• 1:24
  I'm not gonna say more about him because you will get to know him as we unpack what coaching was like for him.
• 1:31
  So without any further ado, let's dive in
• 1:35
  Frankie Trevor: We can go again.
• 1:35
  Frankie Trevor: I've got time.
• 1:37
  Frankie Trevor: If you get it song, yeah, that works.
• 1:41
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So for the listeners, Frankie and I have been talking for almost an hour, and I realized I did not hit record.
• 1:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I'm hitting record again, and we're gonna have this conversation again, but it's such a bummer because I've been having so much fun connecting my former client, Frankie Trevor
• 2:02
  Frankie Trevor: That's right
• 2:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): After so many years.
• 2:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): um, we're gonna recreate this conversation.
• 2:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, and Frankie, why don't you tell the fine people out there when it was that you met me and what, how you felt about meeting me back in the day?
• 2:22
  Frankie Trevor: And so we met around the end of, or the start of junior year, I think, or the end of sophomore year.
• 2:30
  Frankie Trevor: I think it was around then in
• 2:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): it was the beginning of, of, uh, junior year
• 2:35
  Frankie Trevor: Junior year, okay.
• 2:36
  Frankie Trevor: So yeah, around junior year of high school, and then now it is many years later and, and that was 2018.
• 2:45
  Frankie Trevor: Um, and so now I am all the way in my junior, or my senior year of college, going into my senior year of college.
• 2:54
  Frankie Trevor: Um, got one year left.
• 2:56
  Frankie Trevor: So, so yeah, it's been a, been a big gap between when we started seeing each other and now, yeah
• 3:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And actually, I didn't ask you this question the first round, so I'm gonna start this time.
• 3:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Why were you so willing to jump on and have a conversation with me when I texted you?
• 3:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, your sister had texted you first, uh,'cause I also saw your sister.
• 3:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But why were you like,"Sure, I'll have this conversation"?
• 3:19
  Frankie Trevor: You know, I think it's pr- probably particularly because I've had such a wild and long journey through academics, and I know that myself, like, I'm not...
• 3:31
  Frankie Trevor: I was never a perfect student.
• 3:33
  Frankie Trevor: I was never a-- I would say I was never really a good student.
• 3:37
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, maybe not until, you know, this last year where...
• 3:41
  Frankie Trevor: Well, I was pretty good in, in, in community, but in, in terms of, like, going to class and getting my work done and, and really organizing, it took me so long, and I feel like maybe I have a little bit of insight into how other people will struggle.
• 3:55
  Frankie Trevor: And I know that I had terrible grades and didn't do my work and, and did all that and had all these barriers.
• 4:01
  Frankie Trevor: So I felt like I had maybe a little bit of insight into, in how to progress, even if it takes eight years or whatever it took me.
• 4:09
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 4:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 4:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I love
• 4:11
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 4:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): that.
• 4:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It sounds like willing to be like,"Oh, because I know that I was a student who struggled so much, I
• 4:17
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 4:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): some things to help other struggling students as well as educators out there."
• 4:21
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 4:22
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah
• 4:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, so this is good'cause we're doing this the second time, so now we can be even better than the first
• 4:28
  Frankie Trevor: That's right
• 4:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): us, what were your...
• 4:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Start with the beginning of high school.
• 4:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What were your phases of being a student?
• 4:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, we already said coaching started junior year, so
• 4:38
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 4:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And then even talk us through community and then where you are now what those phases were.
• 4:46
  Frankie Trevor: So when I started, um, I was just really not doing well in school.
• 4:53
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, um, as we said before, um, my grades were really, really low, uh, freshman year.
• 5:01
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, better but still bad sophomore year.
• 5:05
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, it, it was really, really, really not what I knew I was capable of and I-- what I knew was expected of me
• 5:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm
• 5:16
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I was really underperforming in terms of school and so then we get into coaching and things are getting better.
• 5:24
  Frankie Trevor: Things are definitely getting better and, uh, and I'm improving and, and, um, senior year was
• 5:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): so, you
• 5:32
  Frankie Trevor: big...
• 5:32
  Frankie Trevor: No, 100% begrudgingly so.
• 5:35
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I mean, I was-- I, I wanted to succeed, but I, I...
• 5:38
  Frankie Trevor: but the coaching part w-was hard for me to get that help and, and, um, and having to realize that I needed other people to help me get there was, was definitely difficult.
• 5:48
  Frankie Trevor: And then we get through, through junior year, we go on to senior year.
• 5:54
  Frankie Trevor: I try to take things on my own.
• 5:55
  Frankie Trevor: I think things are fine.
• 5:56
  Frankie Trevor: They're not any better, I think, by myself.
• 5:59
  Frankie Trevor: Um, but, but I get into, um, college in Oklahoma, a really good engineering school.
• 6:05
  Frankie Trevor: I did really well on my ACT and SAT.
• 6:09
  Frankie Trevor: So I go out there for a semester, struggle really hard.
• 6:13
  Frankie Trevor: I'm going through a lot of mental health stuff.
• 6:14
  Frankie Trevor: I'm away from home.
• 6:16
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, it's really challenging.
• 6:18
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, my grades were terrible.
• 6:20
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, COVID happens.
• 6:22
  Frankie Trevor: I come back.
• 6:23
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I'm back for a year and a half.
• 6:28
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, so spring of 2021 is when I first go back to community college for one class.
• 6:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh,
• 6:36
  Frankie Trevor: one psychology class is what I took.
• 6:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): interesting
• 6:39
  Frankie Trevor: And then for the next Two and a half, three years I'm at, I'm at community.
• 6:46
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I, uh, I do well in community.
• 6:50
  Frankie Trevor: I graduate with honors from community, go to Sac State, um,
• 6:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you are now
• 6:57
  Frankie Trevor: which where I'm at, make Dean's Honor Roll first semester, presidential this semester.
• 7:04
  Frankie Trevor: So that's where, that's, that was my journey through, through college, yeah
• 7:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 7:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And what's next for you?
• 7:13
  Frankie Trevor: So I have this last year.
• 7:14
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I'm planning on taking a gap year after I graduate, uh, study for the LSAT more,
• 7:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay
• 7:22
  Frankie Trevor: take the LSAT next summer, and apply for, for, for law school
• 7:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So from a high school student with a 1.39 GPA to presidential that you've said honor roll to law school, Frankie Trevor.
• 7:44
  Frankie Trevor: Thank you.
• 7:44
  Frankie Trevor: Thank you.
• 7:45
  Frankie Trevor: Thank you.
• 7:45
  Frankie Trevor: Thank you
• 7:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What you decide to switch from engineering to criminal justice?
• 7:55
  Frankie Trevor: I honestly think I could have done engineering, but because I was struggling so hard with my mental health in school that first semester, I mean, I was taking six classes.
• 8:09
  Frankie Trevor: I was taking chemistry, physics, calculus two, um, geology, geology lab, chem lab, and physics lab all in one semester.
• 8:20
  Frankie Trevor: It was like I was just drowning.
• 8:22
  Frankie Trevor: It was like every day I woke up and I was like, I-- like,"What am I gonna do?" You know what I mean?
• 8:27
  Frankie Trevor: As somebody who already strug- who already wasn't a finished product in terms of organization, it was like it-- I had z- I, I'm telling you, I had zero chance.
• 8:36
  Frankie Trevor: Like, I had no chance.
• 8:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you sure
• 8:38
  Frankie Trevor: So
• 8:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): too big of a schedule for somebody
• 8:42
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely.
• 8:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): issues.
• 8:44
  Frankie Trevor: they pushed that pretty heavily that they wanted us to get this kind of stuff done.
• 8:48
  Frankie Trevor: It didn't really seem like I had a choice.
• 8:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): OK
• 8:52
  Frankie Trevor: so when I got back from that, it was like, I don't wanna put myself through that again because I had...
• 8:57
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, maybe this isn't true, but I just, in my mind, it's like I can't do that.
• 9:00
  Frankie Trevor: Now, now I'm like,"I can't do it.
• 9:02
  Frankie Trevor: You know, I can't, I can't do engineering.
• 9:04
  Frankie Trevor: It's too much.
• 9:04
  Frankie Trevor: You know, it's too much work." Which maybe isn't true.
• 9:07
  Frankie Trevor: I think if I went through the, through the community college path, I might have been better, but it was like, let's, let's look into something that I'm more interested in.
• 9:14
  Frankie Trevor: Let's, let's really think things over because when I got out of high school, it was like,"Wow, I got this great opportunity with this really, really good university.
• 9:24
  Frankie Trevor: Let's just go." You know?
• 9:25
  Frankie Trevor: I, I didn't really think it through.
• 9:27
  Frankie Trevor: Um, so I was like, let's, let's look into something that I really like.
• 9:31
  Frankie Trevor: I started with psychology.
• 9:32
  Frankie Trevor: I started doing psychology classes, and it was time for me to actually pick, um...
• 9:38
  Frankie Trevor: You know, I took like three or four classes.
• 9:39
  Frankie Trevor: It was time for me to actually pick my major and work towards something at community college, and I just thought,"Wow, criminal justice is something I'm really interested in." I, I really like law.
• 9:49
  Frankie Trevor: Um, you know, my sister's in criminal justice as well, and you know, I'm always interested in what she's talking about, so I thought,"Why, you know, why not?" You know?
• 9:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and for those listening, Frankie is the first one to talk to me.
• 10:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I was having a little competition between him and his sister in my mind about who was gonna contact me first to schedule this podcast, and guess who won?
• 10:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Frankie.
• 10:11
  Frankie Trevor: You gotta, you gotta talk to my sister.
• 10:12
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, she, she would be lovely to get on here'cause she has so many great stories.
• 10:17
  Frankie Trevor: Oh my God.
• 10:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 10:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll, we'll get her.
• 10:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We'll get Mimi in.
• 10:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And, um, so congratulations first of all for, I- more than your grades and more being on honor roll, what I'm seeing and hearing from you is a sense of confidence, sense of self-esteem, a sense of compassion for who you are and what you need in order to make yourself successful.
• 10:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): um, it really, it just really, my eyes water a little bit as I, I see where you've, you've made it to, especially knowing you started.
• 10:55
  Frankie Trevor: It's a huge difference.
• 10:57
  Frankie Trevor: Huge difference, yeah
• 10:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So let's go back to that moment.
• 11:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): For the listeners, the first one when I thought we were recording but weren't, I surprised Frankie with reminding him about some information that he had forgotten about some of the struggles he went through early in coaching.
• 11:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But let's, let's go back and paint the picture around why were you willing to accept help when you just really thought you didn't need it?
• 11:27
  Frankie Trevor: I think it was sort of a cognitive dissonance, I guess you could say.
• 11:31
  Frankie Trevor: You know, I wanted to succeed, but my brain was telling me I don't need help.
• 11:35
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 11:36
  Frankie Trevor: And I think it just got to a point where I realized, I mean, after two years, it's like you gotta do some- yeah, in high school, it's like you gotta do something, you know?
• 11:46
  Frankie Trevor: And I see my sister...
• 11:47
  Frankie Trevor: I think my sister started first, and she was with you first, and, and, and so it was sort of like, you know, maybe it could work.
• 11:55
  Frankie Trevor: You know, maybe...
• 11:56
  Frankie Trevor: You know, I, I didn't...
• 11:57
  Frankie Trevor: As, as I said before, it was, it was a begrudging acceptance of, of me needing help, and I wasn't ha- I definitely wasn't happy about it, no offense to you.
• 12:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah.
• 12:06
  Frankie Trevor: But it
• 12:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I could
• 12:07
  Frankie Trevor: was, yeah.
• 12:08
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Frankie Trevor: But, but yeah, I, I, I thought, you know, I definitely was so, I think just so mentally, like, hurt by my own incompetence, maybe not incompetence, but my own inability to organize and do what I needed to do, that it was like I wanted to get some relief from that.
• 12:33
  Frankie Trevor: I wanted to succeed, and if this was an outlet, even if I didn't, really didn't wanna do it, why not, you know, give it a try?
• 12:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And you had a story that,"I can do this.
• 12:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I just have to get my own shit together.
• 12:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, I don't need somebody else.
• 12:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I
• 12:47
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah
• 12:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): to do it on my own." And I think that's a story that is really common for people with ADHD,'cause
• 12:54
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 12:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Just do it.
• 12:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Just get your shit
• 12:57
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely.
• 12:58
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, and I think especially with like knowing, knowing that I can...
• 13:04
  Frankie Trevor: That my intelligence is there, that my test scores can be good, and that, that I'm smart at...
• 13:08
  Frankie Trevor: You know, a- and I think a lot of it came from that culture of like, like when you had good grades, you were considered smart, and when you didn't have good grades, you were considered dumb.
• 13:18
  Frankie Trevor: But I knew I was smart.
• 13:19
  Frankie Trevor: I knew I wasn't dumb, but I didn't have the grades.
• 13:22
  Frankie Trevor: So it was like h- why, why am I smart and I don't have the good grades?
• 13:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ja
• 13:25
  Frankie Trevor: clearly it's just me, you know, g- g-'cause I know I'm smart enough.
• 13:28
  Frankie Trevor: So it was like, it, it was sort of that, it's just whole, that whole culture surrounding grades and, and, and not really recognizing the, the organizational issues being the main problem.
• 13:40
  Frankie Trevor: It just made me feel so inadequate,
• 13:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 13:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 13:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you think-- Did that in- feeling of inadequacy go away during coaching, or did you still feel it during coaching but you were, like you said, begrudgingly willing to accept it?
• 13:54
  Frankie Trevor: No, I definitely, I definitely still felt that way.
• 13:56
  Frankie Trevor: I
• 13:57
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm
• 13:58
  Frankie Trevor: I, I th- I think it just because there was such a culture around your grades that if you didn't have good grades, I, I mean, for me at least, it was like I was always gonna feel that way.
• 14:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm
• 14:11
  Frankie Trevor: it wasn't until like late junior...
• 14:13
  Frankie Trevor: I remember in junior year, the second semester, I had like a 3.7 up until like a very long point into the semester and that was when it kinda went away and, and then any...
• 14:21
  Frankie Trevor: And then I was like I wanna look at my grades all the time.
• 14:23
  Frankie Trevor: Before I was like I don't even wanna look at them.
• 14:25
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 14:25
  Frankie Trevor: But it was like you had that feeling of accomplishment even if it was sort of superficial because at the end of the day it doesn't r- you know, it doesn't really matter but it,
• 14:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): う ー ん、 う ー
• 14:35
  Frankie Trevor: at least for me it was like, okay, at least I can just look at them and say,"Oh, I'm doing okay." You know?
• 14:41
  Frankie Trevor: Um
• 14:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): that is something that we practiced together
• 14:44
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 14:45
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): in coaching, is we would look at your online portal together and we would talk through.
• 14:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Now, at the time, of course, it didn't feel good because you had all those zeros.
• 14:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You had so much missing work, so I'm sure it felt like crap
• 14:57
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, it did
• 14:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): to look at it.
• 14:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You, do you remember that?
• 15:01
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely.
• 15:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Just through the p- the programmatic picture, what did it feel like to have this lady online with you?
• 15:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You're sharing screens and you're having a look at everything
• 15:11
  Frankie Trevor: You know what?
• 15:11
  Frankie Trevor: That's one thing that I did wanna talk about, because you never, you never shamed me for it.
• 15:18
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 15:19
  Frankie Trevor: When, when I'm at school, it's like I can't even look at these because I don't want anybody to see it.
• 15:25
  Frankie Trevor: I, I would, I would turn down my vi- brightness all the way.
• 15:28
  Frankie Trevor: I would open my laptop in the corner, and I would look at my grades, and I would shut it.
• 15:31
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 15:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you would turn your brightness
• 15:32
  Frankie Trevor: Oh,
• 15:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): could see it,
• 15:34
  Frankie Trevor: nobody...
• 15:34
  Frankie Trevor: J-
• 15:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): see it quickly.
• 15:35
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh my
• 15:36
  Frankie Trevor: quick and close it.
• 15:38
  Frankie Trevor: You know, okay,
• 15:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I didn't know that.
• 15:40
  Frankie Trevor: I'm gonna tell you this, I'm gonna tell you this, and I, I've never told anybody this.
• 15:46
  Frankie Trevor: I learned how to inspect element online, and you could change, like, a website screen.
• 15:53
  Frankie Trevor: I would change all my grades, take a screenshot, and then have that ready.
• 15:57
  Frankie Trevor: So if anybody was like, ask me or wanted, like, were looking at my screen, I'd have, like, a different screen with fake grades on it
• 16:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh my gosh, did you ever show me the fake rates?
• 16:09
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Interesting.
• 16:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So you were willing to let me see, even though it felt horrible to you, you were
• 16:15
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 16:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): see it
• 16:16
  Frankie Trevor: But I would never have let anybody else see.
• 16:18
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, uh, I mean, my parents, obviously my parents knew, but, but,
• 16:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): 'cause they signed in on their own
• 16:25
  Frankie Trevor: but yeah, I was so embarrassed and so,
• 16:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, honey
• 16:29
  Frankie Trevor: and so, um, ashamed of, like, not performing well in school that, Yeah.
• 16:35
  Frankie Trevor: I, I couldn't-- I w- yeah, it was really bad.
• 16:37
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah
• 16:39
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, something for the listeners to know is, yeah, so Frankie did start in that really difficult place with the low GPA and lots of missing work, and then will you tell everybody the two that happened that were like the cruel joke?
• 16:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, here you are finally getting the support you need, and then what happened?
• 16:59
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, so, um, I was playing soccer, um, for my club team and I got a pretty bad concussion.
• 17:05
  Frankie Trevor: I think I was out for like a month and a half, um, of school.
• 17:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And that was literally a month into coaching.
• 17:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): We had
• 17:13
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 17:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): sessions when that happened
• 17:16
  Frankie Trevor: And it was like...
• 17:17
  Frankie Trevor: And, and, and honestly, I think I, I, I pr- particularly remember doing really well in that first month.
• 17:24
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, I, I was studying re- I was studying really well.
• 17:26
  Frankie Trevor: I was really preparing for my test.
• 17:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 17:29
  Frankie Trevor: two tests the day after I got my concussion.
• 17:33
  Frankie Trevor: Um, and I got an A on my...
• 17:37
  Frankie Trevor: I still got an A on my test.
• 17:39
  Frankie Trevor: One of them I failed.
• 17:40
  Frankie Trevor: It was my math test, but I think that was natural.
• 17:43
  Frankie Trevor: But, but yeah, I, I, I remem- but I remember being like,"Wow, I studied so hard," you know?
• 17:48
  Frankie Trevor: "I've been working so hard in this semester." It really did suck to be out for, for a month and a half.
• 17:53
  Frankie Trevor: I think it was, like, six weeks.
• 17:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was so demoralizing.
• 17:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was demoralizing for me too.
• 17:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I was like,"Oh my..." I just felt so badly for you'cause I could see how, how much you didn't wanna be in coaching, but how much you were working on it.
• 18:05
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah
• 18:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And then to have this happen, that just ended up being even more late work, and you couldn't, like, you couldn't look at screens.
• 18:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You couldn't...
• 18:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, there were times that coaching sessions would just be you with your eyes closed listening to me'cause you couldn't see me'cause it hurt your brain.
• 18:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Ay.
• 18:23
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah Then I don't remember exactly how long after, but, um, I was driving home...
• 18:32
  Frankie Trevor: Well, I wasn't driving, but I was coming home from, uh, from school and then then the person driving, uh, ran off the road and hit a tree, and we got in a pretty bad accident.
• 18:43
  Frankie Trevor: Um, so yeah
• 18:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You know, get this, I just looked at the date.
• 18:50
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So for people listening, in the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, one of the things I train new academic and executive function coaches to do is to keep session notes in a very particular kind of way, and because of this kind of way that I teach, I now have really easy access to all the notes from my clients.
• 19:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So on the podcast, when we talk to all my former clients, I'm gonna have some really great information to help remind us.
• 19:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So here's the deal, dude.
• 19:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): August, the semester starts.
• 19:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): September, your concussion.
• 19:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): October was your car accident.
• 19:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That was our first coaching together
• 19:31
  Frankie Trevor: That's crazy.
• 19:32
  Frankie Trevor: I didn't-- Yeah, I didn't even realize it was that close together
• 19:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm.
• 19:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I just, I've just like, I just feel so bad for you again.
• 19:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, I'm right back there in my heart like,"Oh, you poor dear." Okay.
• 19:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So our previous interview didn't get recorded, I asked you what sorts of, um, habits, whether they're study habits or organization habits or anything else, has stuck with you once you got into college.
• 20:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And you shared at least two things, and maybe you'll think of something else as you're talking.
• 20:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But what did we practice in coaching that even if you were annoyed with at the time, it really did help you when you were ready?
• 20:15
  Frankie Trevor: Planners and first steps.
• 20:16
  Frankie Trevor: Planners definitely is something that I've taken pretty heavily and, and have my Notion, my Notion, uh, planner, calendar, notes, assignments, um, page that, that I use pretty frequently when I'm in school.
• 20:33
  Frankie Trevor: Um, and we also talked about first steps, something, something that I find myself doing in almost all aspects of life now, but especially in school, just, um, I guess you could say forcing myself to, to take one step forward in whatever assignment that I'm struggling with, whether it's procrastination, and then hopefully that translates to more.
• 20:55
  Frankie Trevor: But if even if it doesn't, at least I'm getting, getting one thing down, whether it be on an essay or, you know, what- whatever assignment, just getting, getting it started, opening it up, um, writing the page, getting an intro, whatever it may be.
• 21:09
  Frankie Trevor: Um, just pushing myself to, to do those kind of things.
• 21:12
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): This is A spider
• 21:14
  Frankie Trevor: I do see the spider.
• 21:15
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): down from my roof right during the midst of the podcast.
• 21:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): my goodness.
• 21:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Sorry those of you listening on audio, I'm removing the spider.
• 21:26
  Frankie Trevor: Is that some kind of sign?
• 21:28
  Frankie Trevor: I don't know.
• 21:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): know.
• 21:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was so clear on the
• 21:32
  Frankie Trevor: I know.
• 21:33
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, that was clear as day
• 21:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So also remembered there was one specific thing about planners that I told you, and it cracked me up to hear you say that
• 21:46
  Frankie Trevor: I got a hamburger
• 21:47
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was the thing about how just write it down even if you never...
• 21:54
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You don't remember saying that?
• 21:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You
• 21:55
  Frankie Trevor: No.
• 21:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): that I told you to
• 21:58
  Frankie Trevor: Oh, right, right, right.
• 21:58
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:59
  Frankie Trevor: Like, it was one, one week, I don't remember when, but it was one week where you, you were...
• 22:04
  Frankie Trevor: I don't know if you were frustrated or if this was just a, a sneaky tactic, but you were just like,"I don't care if you don't do any assignments until I see you again.
• 22:13
  Frankie Trevor: I just want you to write it down," because I wasn't even doing that.
• 22:16
  Frankie Trevor: I wasn't even doing my planner.
• 22:18
  Frankie Trevor: Um, and which I mean, honestly, it makes sense because if I'm, you know, if, if I'm not gonna do anything, at least do one thing.
• 22:26
  Frankie Trevor: So, um, so yeah, I remember you telling me,"I don't care if you don't do anything else, but just write it down and get it planned out for the, for the week." Um, and so yeah, I think those sort of, sort of two worlds collided in, in that sense with the planner and the s- and the first step kind of thing.
• 22:43
  Frankie Trevor: Mm-hmm.
• 22:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I was remembering that f- so Frankie's school get, provides a planner, and it's in some ways a useful planner because it walks them through their gold days and black days or whatever, like the different
• 22:57
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah
• 22:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): of the school and whatever, when days you have...
• 23:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Anyway, it's, it's a useful planner'cause you kinda know the school's schedule, but you were so not willing to use it.
• 23:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Do you remember anything about why you weren't willing?
• 23:10
  Frankie Trevor: Um, hmm, that's a good question.
• 23:13
  Frankie Trevor: I don't even really...
• 23:15
  Frankie Trevor: I don't think I even just gave it a chance, to be honest,'cause I don't even remember it.
• 23:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 23:21
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and I think just keeping a paper planner was hard for you.
• 23:24
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely.
• 23:25
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 23:25
  Frankie Trevor: I think
• 23:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): where is the planner?
• 23:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't know where it is, so how am I gonna write anything down
• 23:29
  Frankie Trevor: I think keeping anything that was a physical thing even now, and even, even if it's a jacket or a bag or a wallet, was difficult.
• 23:40
  Frankie Trevor: So keeping these, and keeping these paper things, yeah, definitely a difficult thing, and it's definitely helpful to have technology now.
• 23:47
  Frankie Trevor: Um, and I obviously could have done something technological then, but I didn't really have the foresight.
• 23:54
  Frankie Trevor: But
• 23:56
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, and there wasn't, even back in 2018, I mean, yes, there were apps and that sort of thing, but I don't...
• 24:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Like, Notion is so much more popular now for college students than it ever was before.
• 24:06
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And Frankie shared in the part that didn't get recorded that, um, you used, uh, you found a template, like just a, a, a student
• 24:16
  Frankie Trevor: A student's template, yeah.
• 24:18
  Frankie Trevor: Mm-hmm
• 24:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 24:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So I suspect that I set you up.
• 24:25
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Tell me if you remember this or not.
• 24:26
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I don't have this in my, in easy access to my notes right now.
• 24:30
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, I suspect that I set you up with a certain kind of a binder system
• 24:37
  Frankie Trevor: Yes
• 24:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): had the planner...
• 24:38
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, you do remember that.
• 24:40
  Frankie Trevor: Mm-hmm.
• 24:40
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): do you remember about it?
• 24:41
  Frankie Trevor: remember that you had set up these sort of, um, separated binder systems with different classes and different, um, materials so that, um, things were separate and easier to access
• 24:58
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But I think they were in one thing.
• 25:01
  Frankie Trevor: Yes.
• 25:01
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, it was
• 25:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you had one, I think it's called the Arc System, and I think you had, like, one set with a different folder for every class,
• 25:09
  Frankie Trevor: yeah
• 25:11
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): the planner page that you and I ended up designing together, so you had it all in one thing.
• 25:17
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, yeah, It was one, it was like one binder, yeah, thing
• 25:20
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Was that successful or was it not successful to have everything in one place when you're used to lo- losing things?
• 25:28
  Frankie Trevor: absolutely.
• 25:29
  Frankie Trevor: It, it was, uh, much, it was much better than put- shoving everything into my backpack
• 25:34
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Uh-huh.
• 25:35
  Frankie Trevor: find it.
• 25:35
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 25:37
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I think there were some times that you'd left it at home, and it was like,"Oh."
• 25:42
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 25:42
  Frankie Trevor: for sure
• 25:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): if we had...
• 25:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Or you'd left it at school when we had a session at home.
• 25:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It was like,"Oh, darn it." um, it seems like it was better to have something than just to have a bunch of random things.
• 25:53
  Frankie Trevor: Mm-hmm.
• 25:53
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely
• 25:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And this one-page planner, maybe I'll even share my screen.
• 25:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Sorry to those of you listening on audio, but, um, just a quick view.
• 26:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): It's gonna look ugly, but it's so funny'cause Frankie, I designed this for you, and then I shared it with a bunch of other students.
• 26:10
  Frankie Trevor: Really?
• 26:10
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): able to be, yep, printed out in one page.
• 26:13
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Talk about a template where the dates were on one side.
• 26:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You can see the last time I printed it out was on May 4th at some point, there were due dates.
• 26:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, so we needed to see, like, what's due that day, and then the to-do items, meaning what were you going to do that day.
• 26:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And I remember that we would practice filling it out during sessions, but I also remember that you often did not fill it out your own in between.
• 26:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And so I just had to tell myself,"I think it's useful that we're practicing filling it out, even if he rarely..." And it's not like you never.
• 26:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You did do it sometimes, but you didn't do it as successfully...
• 26:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I mean, as...
• 27:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I shouldn't say successfully.
• 27:01
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): As, um, the follow-up just wasn't there.
• 27:04
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And it could have been easy for me to think like,"Oh, I'm a bad coach," or,"Oh, something's not working here." But would you say it was still a worthwhile thing for us to practice that every week?
• 27:16
  Frankie Trevor: Absolutely.
• 27:17
  Frankie Trevor: Like I, like I said, um, before, I mean, it's something that I use now.
• 27:22
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, it took seven years, but it's, working now, and it's something that I know and that it's something that I recognize the value in.
• 27:31
  Frankie Trevor: And, and I don't think that comes out of nowhere, you know what I mean?
• 27:35
  Frankie Trevor: 'Cause I,'cause after, after that, I never even looked at another planner up until I, I came to Sac State.
• 27:42
  Frankie Trevor: And it was like, in my mind, it was like,"What do I need to be successful?
• 27:46
  Frankie Trevor: Oh, I should, I should probably get a planner." You know what I mean?
• 27:49
  Frankie Trevor: And that's how I started Notion the summer before I came here.
• 27:52
  Frankie Trevor: Um, so clearly it stuck, stuck in my head, um, somewhere deep down in there from our coaching sessions.
• 27:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Oh, I just realized you went through that horrible time in Oklahoma with that many classes and you still weren't using a planner.
• 28:06
  Frankie Trevor: Nope.
• 28:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Aye yi yi.
• 28:08
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You'll
• 28:10
  Frankie Trevor: I'm telling you, I had no chance on there.
• 28:12
  Frankie Trevor: I had no chance.
• 28:17
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, it was rough
• 28:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Okay, let's talk study skills a little bit
• 28:21
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 28:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you were, as you said, you were just, you, you were just a really smart guy.
• 28:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You barely needed to study to do well in high school.
• 28:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But we must have talked about studying together because in my notes I noted that, that during your second semester of coaching, you ended up getting a 98 on a math t- on the math final, I think it was, and you attributed that to the cheat sheet you made.
• 28:51
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Now, you had just shared with us a little earlier that your first math test you didn't do well on, so that was clearly a hard class for you
• 28:59
  Frankie Trevor: Yes.
• 28:59
  Frankie Trevor: I also did have a concussion when I took the test,
• 29:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Right.
• 29:03
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): That's true
• 29:04
  Frankie Trevor: but but, I did, I did get progressively better on...
• 29:08
  Frankie Trevor: I remember, I, I think I got a...
• 29:09
  Frankie Trevor: I literally got an F on the first one, then I got a B, then I got an A, and then we took the final and I think I got a 98.
• 29:15
  Frankie Trevor: So clearly it, it, it was progressively better.
• 29:18
  Frankie Trevor: Um, in fact, actually I think on one of the tests, I think I got like 112.
• 29:23
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Wow
• 29:24
  Frankie Trevor: w- yeah, it was ridiculous.
• 29:25
  Frankie Trevor: Um, uh, so yeah.
• 29:28
  Frankie Trevor: So no, we definitely...
• 29:30
  Frankie Trevor: I'm sure we talked about studying for sure
• 29:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 29:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And most likely, I think the cheat sheet was your language,'cause I put it in quotes in the habit tracker, but I'm guessing that we-- I had shared with you the study cycle, which
• 29:44
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 29:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): brain science to students, and I'm guessing also that I worked on Hone It Notes with you.
• 29:52
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Um, and Hone It Notes are the process of pulling together everything that you've learned and trying to get it on one page.
• 29:58
  Frankie Trevor: Right
• 29:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): and so how did that stick with you as you moved into deeper into your college career?
• 30:09
  Frankie Trevor: No, that's been very, very important, especially with, um, a lot of colleges even-- or a lot of college classes even allowing you to have one while you're taking the test and, um, having your survival sheet and stuff like that can be a real game changer.
• 30:27
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, especially, um, when in those classes, it's like, if you don't have one, you're kinda, you know, really at a disadvantage, especially when it's coming to really, really technical law stuff that quite frankly nobody's really gonna remember unless you've been a lawyer for ten, 15 years.
• 30:48
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 30:49
  Frankie Trevor: And so, so it's really, really important to, for me at least, at the very least, if I don't...
• 30:56
  Frankie Trevor: am not allowed to bring one in, to at least really look it over pretty heavily before, before I go into my test.
• 31:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 31:04
  Frankie Trevor: uh, I mean sometimes, I mean, for my final in my, uh, in my, uh, corrections class that I took this, this semester, I think me and my friend made one together.
• 31:17
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, we sort of collaborated one.
• 31:18
  Frankie Trevor: I think it was like 13 pages long.
• 31:20
  Frankie Trevor: Like it was, it was pretty ridiculous.
• 31:21
  Frankie Trevor: It was pretty intense.
• 31:22
  Frankie Trevor: But that's, yeah, that's sometimes, you know, sometimes it could be, you know, a lot of information.
• 31:28
  Frankie Trevor: Sometimes you're able to condense it more, but
• 31:31
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 31:31
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, I didn't even really need to look at it at that point because I had spent so much time condensing that information.
• 31:38
  Frankie Trevor: It's like,"Oh, I already know this." I only had to look at it like two or three times when I was like,"Oh, I don't really remember this," or, or even more so it was like,"I just wanna get this right," that kind of thing.
• 31:47
  Frankie Trevor: But yeah, no, I, I, I mean, if in terms of like a method to retaining information, 100% most important for me
• 31:55
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And why do you like the phrase survival sheet better than cheat sheet?
• 32:00
  Frankie Trevor: Um, I had a teacher last semester who, who she used to call it cheat sheet, but she realized that, like, that's sort of disingenuous to what you're doing because you're not cheating.
• 32:13
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 32:13
  Frankie Trevor: You're,
• 32:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): You're
• 32:14
  Frankie Trevor: you're create...
• 32:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): important
• 32:15
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, you're, you're, you're, you're doing important strategies to essentially survive, you know what I mean?
• 32:21
  Frankie Trevor: You're, you're, you're creating a, a, um, outlet for your learning, and so it's not really a cheat sheet, and she just felt like it had a co- sort of negative connotation to it rather than what it really should be is, is something that's, something that's positive for your, for your success.
• 32:39
  Frankie Trevor: So, and that, that really stuck.
• 32:40
  Frankie Trevor: I ju- I don't, I just really like that.
• 32:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I
• 32:42
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 32:43
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I love that so much.
• 32:44
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): I'm gonna take that on now, so thank you to that
• 32:46
  Frankie Trevor: Okay.
• 32:46
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): whoever she
• 32:47
  Frankie Trevor: Yes
• 32:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So what advice would you leave our listeners with?
• 32:53
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And again, they're mostly academic and executive function coaches who
• 32:57
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 32:59
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): in the day.
• 33:00
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Was there either things that I did that were really supportive and you'd say,"Yep, keep doing that," or things I didn't do or should have done that you think,"Oh, yes, that's advice for new people"?
• 33:12
  Frankie Trevor: I would say first and foremost, don't be judgmental, which is something that you are very good at.
• 33:18
  Frankie Trevor: Don't...
• 33:19
  Frankie Trevor: Try your best even if somebody's failing or not succeeding in the way that, that would show result in that moment.
• 33:29
  Frankie Trevor: Don't give up.
• 33:31
  Frankie Trevor: And just be mindful that it can take somebody a long time to, to get to where they need to be, and that's not necessarily a failure on your part or a failure on their part.
• 33:41
  Frankie Trevor: It could just be that they're in a p- they're in a spot where they're just not set up mentally or
• 33:48
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mhm.
• 33:49
  Frankie Trevor: or whatever it may be to be the best person that they can be.
• 33:53
  Frankie Trevor: But setting those goals and setting those, those important skills as early as you can and consistently as you can, at least for me, it showed up later than you probably would've hoped and maybe later than I probably would've hoped, but it happened, and now I'm, you know, I'm on the right path for sure
• 34:14
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And any, any advice for, there might be some parents listening too.
• 34:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): So, I mean, I
• 34:18
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 34:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): could actually also be good advice for parents.
• 34:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): But is there anything else you would add for parents?
• 34:25
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, I think just be supportive and, you know, I think for a lot of people it's not all about how smart you are.
• 34:35
  Frankie Trevor: It's not all about, you know, the grades either.
• 34:39
  Frankie Trevor: Like, we're people, we're humans.
• 34:41
  Frankie Trevor: Like, make sure that you're worrying about, um, the important things, how somebody's doing, you know, where their mental health is at, where their heart is at.
• 34:52
  Frankie Trevor: You know, those things always come first.
• 34:54
  Frankie Trevor: I think that's something that my parents tried their best to do.
• 34:58
  Frankie Trevor: You know, they had their moments where they were really upset, but, but I think that helped me because I was cared for, and at the end of the day, when it came time for me to succeed, when, you know, things came together, I knew I had supportive parents, so I just felt even more proud, um, to show them that I could do it.
• 35:17
  Frankie Trevor: You know what I mean?
• 35:18
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 35:19
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And now finally, advice to future Frankie, who is gonna be in law school in a couple years.
• 35:28
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What do you want him to remember so that you have a successful law school experience?
• 35:35
  Frankie Trevor: Uh, write in your planner and um
• 35:42
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Hone your notes and
• 35:44
  Frankie Trevor: And hold your notes and just, uh, think about yourself and your health first.
• 35:54
  Frankie Trevor: And even if things, God forbid, don't go well, just remember that, you know, you come first and everything happens for a reason
• 36:05
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Mm-hmm.
• 36:07
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah, and I think there's probably one other thing that once I remind you, you'll also send this to future Frankie.
• 36:13
  Frankie Trevor: Угу
• 36:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): one of the reasons you didn't want coaching back when we first started is you were just so ashamed to ask for help
• 36:24
  Frankie Trevor: Yes, absolutely.
• 36:25
  Frankie Trevor: Yes.
• 36:26
  Frankie Trevor: I will tell future Frankie, ask for help.
• 36:29
  Frankie Trevor: Don't be afraid to ask for help
• 36:32
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): And what's the truth about...
• 36:33
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What do you know now about what it, what it means?
• 36:36
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): 'Cause before you had a horrible meaning, like that a fact that I need to ask for help says something terrible about me.
• 36:41
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): What do you know it means now?
• 36:43
  Frankie Trevor: Well, everybody needs help.
• 36:45
  Frankie Trevor: Every-- We're, you know, we're all human.
• 36:46
  Frankie Trevor: Everybody...
• 36:47
  Frankie Trevor: We all are capable of doing some things, and sometimes there's somebody that knows more about it, and there's nothing wrong with getting a little bit of insight or a little bit of knowledge from that person.
• 36:58
  Frankie Trevor: I mean, I go to school and learn from people.
• 37:00
  Frankie Trevor: That's help in itself, you know what I mean?
• 37:02
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Yeah
• 37:02
  Frankie Trevor: I don't just go take my tests and don't talk to my professors, you know what I mean?
• 37:06
  Frankie Trevor: They're helping me gain that knowledge anyway, so even if I need a little bit of help in a certain area, it's, it's no different than going and sitting down in class, so
• 37:16
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Beautiful.
• 37:17
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, you can go back and listen to this podcast episode if you need to in a couple years.
• 37:22
  Frankie Trevor: I will.
• 37:22
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah.
• 37:22
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): To your gap year.
• 37:24
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): Well, I wanna give you a big hug.
• 37:26
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, I know.
• 37:27
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): to see you again.
• 37:28
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, you too
• 37:29
  Gretchen Wegner (she/her): you were willing to come on and share our story
• 37:32
  Frankie Trevor: Of course.
• 37:33
  Frankie Trevor: Yeah, it was a pleasure
• 37:35
  Oh my goodness, you all.
• 37:37
  That was such a treat to chat with Frankie.
• 37:41
  I asked him to please stay in touch with me as he goes into his senior year of college and law school, and I just can't wait to continue tracking him as he moves through this next chunk of schooling and into his career as a lawyer.
• 37:57
  Oh my goodness.
• 37:59
  Thanks so much for making it to the end.
• 38:01
  It really is helpful for you to like and subscribe if you're watching this on YouTube.
• 38:06
  Please do that here on YouTube.
• 38:08
  If you're listening to this, uh, on audio, please go ahead and, uh, put an Apple review in for us.
• 38:16
  It's really helpful.
• 38:17
  This is a brand-new podcast.
• 38:18
  I don't even think we have any Apple reviews yet, so it'd be so lovely for you to do that.
• 38:23
  And most importantly, keep listening.
• 38:28
  Take care, y'all