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Fear of Success and Fear of Failure: Gaining Control of Your Mindset with Dr. Albert Bramante · Marci talks money (and life)

• Marci Grossman (00:15) Hello, I am MoneyMarci. Welcome. Today's guest is Albert Bramante. Dr. Albert Bramante is a talent agent, performance psychologist, and mindset expert who has spent over 20 years helping high both in the entertainment industry and beyond, conquer their mental roadblocks. With a PhD in psychology and certifications in hypnosis and NLP, he bridges the gap between talent, business success, and the psychology of peak performance. Welcome, Albert. Albert (00:47) Thank you so much for having me, Marci. I'm really happy to be here. Marci Grossman (00:50) I'm thrilled to have you. Psychology, talent agent, hypnotherapist. What made you go in all of these directions? Albert (00:57) Well, it was kind of by accident. Like I never really intended to go into the entertainment industry. And at least when I was a child, my goal was to be a clinical psychologist. My goal was to be a college professor. I grew up, my mom was a teacher. My father was a football coach. And I think between the teaching and the coaching that was like in, you know, in my family, it kind of just led me down this path of being an educator. I've always saw myself. in front of a classroom. That was like my dream, you know, all throughout high school and college was to be in front of the classroom. I also had a very insatiable curiosity about people, about human beings, the human condition. Even growing up, was always kind of, you know, chastised as, I'm too nosy, I'm too intense, which I think is kind of my superpowers now. So I was just always interested in the human condition. I wasn't the unpopular kid, but I wasn't exactly the popular one either. Because I'm the youngest in my family and my sibling that's nearest to my age is like eight years older than me. I grew up kind of like as the only child in certain aspects. So I was more the kid that hung out with the adults. I was more the kid that had more of the adult conversations. When I was in high school, I was reading books like How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie and David Burns' Feeling Good, which is like a classic primer on cognitive behavioral therapy. those were my books reading in high school. Not typically what you would see a freshman and a sophomore in high school reading. You know, that wasn't your typical reading material. But that was mine. And I spent a lot of time in the library on the weekends. That was like my fun spot, my sanctuary. And I read a lot of books. You know, I read all books about the brain, psychotherapy, psychology. And this really was an immense interest in me. I couldn't get enough of it. So my junior year in high school, I kind of like declared psychology was going to be my major. But I also had an interest in the arts too. So I was like in the drama club in high school. In college, I took some acting classes, as electives, and theater classes. And I enjoyed it. I mean, didn't, at that time, didn't see myself doing much with it. It was more of like, this is an interest of mine, a hobby. So, fast forward, I'm about to finish my master's degree. I wound up at an internship at a talk show in New York. the Sally Jessy Raphael show. It's a throwback from the 90s and early 2000s. She was the one with thick red glasses. That was like her calling card. But I found myself in a very interesting position, you know, in an internship. It wasn't, it wasn't production. It was more, uh, behind the scenes work. Doing, follow-up care, after care. And so I was working with the after care consultant on the show. It was... a therapist and the show's like in-house expert. So I reached out to her on a whim when I was in grad school, the one of the summers of watching the Sally Jessy Raphael show. And I just kind of wrote out, I said, I'm a big fan, I'd love to work with you. I'm going for a master's in psychology. If there's any way we can collaborate. And I hit send. And I didn't think anything was going to happen of that. You know, she probably gets thousands of these messages. So I went about my own way. I forgot about the fact that I sent that email out. Two months later, I'm on my way to class and I said, you know, I'm just going to check my email sometime. I log into my email and I see response to your website message. What's this? Okay. Open it up. And there was a person in the show saying, um, ask me where I was located because she was looking for an intern for the spring. So I responded a week or two later on the phone. I was surreal because I watch the therapist on TV all the time. Now she's talking on the phone. And I landed the internship. And so the last semester of grad school, I was working once, twice a week in New York at the Sally Jessy Raphael show. And it was a very eye-opening experience. It was my first professional show business opportunity. Because it was nothing, what I expected. Marci Grossman (05:03) I imagine that was much more the business side of things than the entertainment side of things, even though it was on TV. Albert (05:03) And... Yeah, it was on TV, but, ⁓ like I said, my expectation of what a talk show I thought a talk show was, was a lot different than the reality, I'll say that, of what a talk show is. And, you know, now of course, you know, many, many, many years later, and I talked to people who worked in almost every talk show and they said it's an exact same thing. it has nothing to do with helping people. It's all about ratings and The stories were real I could say at least where I was at the stories were somewhat real , the context was a bit staged So for example the host has a teleprompter, she had an earpiece every line that she every comment, everywhere to stand was kind of directed. It was like a stage direction stand over here The audience was then like prompted, okay, you need to laugh, you need to sigh, you need to moan, you need to boo. And they'd have few cards up like, boo here, applaud here. And everything was scripted. And a lot of the guests that were coming on were like so upset afterwards, they felt like they were misled. Marci Grossman (06:14) Well, but I would expect that of anyone on TV because... Albert (06:18) Well, yeah, I mean, my 22 year old self, 23 year old self really wasn't versed in that area. Now, many years later, working a business side, it makes perfect. 100 % sense. It's acting on some level. It really is. part of the release was that you have to kind of do what the producers tell you to do. Or, you know, we're going to negate the agreement. Now, the agreement was that they paid like a stipend for meals and they paid for your transportation and hotel. And which is great. I mean for New York, free trip to New York with meals is I would, I might, you know, consider that. But the truth of the matter is you have to do what they tell you. And a lot of guests would tell me like they would want it done Soon the show was over, like, okay, let's get back to the airport as fast as possible. We're done. Yeah, it wasn't something I wanted to work in ever again, but it was a good experience because at least it opened my eyes about the reality of the business. And now, instead of working in this industry, the entertainment industry, for 21 years, I can tell you that this is kind of like the norm. For talk shows. 100%. So fast forward after that, 9-11 had happened. It's the same year on 9-11. Marci Grossman (07:26) for talk shows. Albert (07:33) The person I was working with, Sally, had called me and said, hey, I need help on the ground. We're doing a team together. A lot of them are actors, producers, directors, filmmakers. And we all started collaborating. We're going to do some documentaries. We're going to do some of that. And then the acting thing kind of came back in. So as most people who work as agents or casting directors, we all started off with actors, most of us. So I did a little bit acting myself, did a couple indie films, some commercials, nothing large that would say like, ⁓ you would see me here. But I really enjoyed it, and I enjoyed being around actors. And even though I was studying psychology and clinical psychology, I found myself identifying more with entertainers and creatives than I did with stuffy academic types. That's what I would kind of say that. I didn't belong in that environment. I went to academic conferences, the APA conference and all that. I didn't fit in. I grew up in a blue collar family. So, you know, I didn't really know how to fit in, but I fit in along with the actors. so, but I realized I didn't want to be an actor, you know, wasn't so much fulfilling for me to be performing, but I liked being the environment. So I was like, okay, how do I balance, you know, being in the environment? and making some sort of an income here. I said, okay, you know what, I'm gonna represent, I'm gonna coach, represent support actors as much as possible. So 2004, I started my first company. And at that time, I made the decision to go get my PhD. I was like, I've always wanted it, I was halfway there, why don't I continue doing it? So I enrolled in and I received my PhD at Walden University, which is a distance learning university. And it was good for me at the time because I was teaching part-time and I was also building up my company. I wouldn't have really had the time to commit to go to commute back and forth to a land-based university for classes. I wouldn't have had the time to do that and do everything else. So it was really convenient to do an online university. So. When it came time to look at my dissertations, where it kind of comes full circle, I decided that I was going to study actors. And particularly one thing I noticed with actors was self-sabotage. You know, we saw high rise of imposter syndrome. And I'm like, well, now here's a little bit of a niche I can kind of put myself in, because I can now look at know, the psychology behind self-sabotage and performing artists. And so that was my dissertation, Self-defeating Behavior and Performing Artists. And it was amazing because I got to combine both my worlds, psychology with actors. So that's what I did my dissertation in. And through this time, I realized I really didn't want to be a clinical psychologist anymore. It wasn't resonating with me that pathologizing, the talk therapy for 8-10 years and no really cure or insight, it just didn't resonate with me anymore. So I started looking into more solution focused and that's where it led me down the path of NLP and adenosis. That's where I immersed myself into that area. Marci Grossman (10:43) Love you. Let me interrupt you for a second because what is NLP? I know it as natural language processing, which is AI and computer related term and Albert (10:56) Right, well that's one acronym of it. NLP and what I was just saying is Neurolinguistic Programming. Now, a lot of people do get that confused because it's the same acronym, NLP. But Neurolinguistic Programming is the same metaphor to Computer Programming, but more about the mind. So you're using ⁓ language, you're using communication, you're using mental processes to kind of reprogram your entire self. Marci Grossman (11:20) So that goes back to the self-sabotage and the mindset and that kind of thing by the words you choose. Albert (11:21) And Yes. Mindset. It's really great on mindset. kind of like using language and using other types of imagery and all that kind of re-change it and rewire your mindset in a sense. the one thing we've learned about the brain is that it can change. Back in the 80s and 90s, it used to be kind of like the knowledge that like When you hit like 30, you were kind of like there was no changing. You couldn't teach an old dog new tricks. Which is not true at all at this point, you know, in this day and age. Because we discovered something called neuroplasticity, which is the brain and nervous system can rewire itself through, you know, make new connections so you can learn new things, you can change at any age age. And that was really through groundbreaking work in, like I said, NLP and even other types of quantum psychology, which is about, again, using the thoughts to change your physiology, to change your life and your world. So that became more of a passion of mine because I think it fit so well with, again, the self-sabotage and imposter syndrome. So that's where I'm like, so I'm a clinical psychologist by training, not. you know, not by breadth. Marci Grossman (12:36) Okay, well I went on your website and I saw that you offer, you've got like hypnotherapy sections, I assume those are recordings and whatever else. So you don't see patients individually, but you do have these hypnotherapy resources available. Albert (12:43) Yes. Yeah, yeah, and I also do sometimes informal coaching like online and in groups. So yeah, I don't advertise myself as a therapist. I'm not, you know, I'm not licensed and I wouldn't ethically call myself a therapist because I'm not a licensed one. Although I have all the training, in both clinical psychology and also solutions focused therapy. Marci Grossman (13:09) And I see that you are actually a professor at a community college. So some of your dreams and your end space did fit together. Albert (13:13) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Well, you know, I did both, I taught both full-time and part-time. You know, now in the past nine years I've been doing a part-time at a community college in New York and I love what I do. I love teaching. I always did. I mean, it was kind of the best thing ever, you know, for me. I always consider myself, like I said, an educator. Marci Grossman (13:41) That's awesome. Your dissertation sounds like it's really close to your book, but not necessarily the same. Albert (13:47) Yes. It's yes and no, because it was based on my book. Now, the dissertation was groundbreaking because at that time, self-sabotage was being looked at, but it was more, on the corporate or more on the athletic side. But performing artists at that time, especially in 2015 when the dissertation was published, there was not a lot written for about actors, at least in the scholarly space. So I kind of feel the need and my advisors when I was in grad school, my committee, my dissertation committee, really encouraged me to publish because again it was groundbreaking. Now the thing about dissertation is, you know, I'm very proud of the work I did, but it's very hard to share that with other people because of the technical language. in the academic language. a lot of my family and friends are trying to be supportive and they're like, can I your dissertation? I did get a bound into a book, like book, format. And I would show that to them and then read, get through like the first few pages and that's nice. And they close it. And yeah, and I don't blame them because, you know, I, I, I wouldn't probably have wanted to read that myself if I wasn't. And, you know, on academic, cause it's very, Marci Grossman (14:47) Right, well, it was written for academics. Albert (14:59) Very, very technical. years later I said, you know what, I want to turn this into a book. But now the challenge was, OK, make this to a general audience. An audience that will be able to appreciate and Marci Grossman (15:15) you converted it for every day, every man. Albert (15:16) yeah, I converted to everyday reading. Of course, I had a lot new insights, I some stories, I added some context. But I did, the one thing I did kind of still want to honor was that a lot of the stuff that I was mentioning in the book was backed up by research. It backed up by facts and not just like coming up with random things. So I wanted to give respect, because yes, I am an academic nerd, so I wanted to give my respect to research. Marci Grossman (15:44) Were you including your dissertation and your citations for your book? That's got to feel good to cite yourself. Albert (15:49) Yes. Yeah. Not as much. Not as much because I used to think it was weird. I was like, I've got to do it. But I was like, because I would see a lot. I'd read a lot of scholarly articles and half the citations of a lot of these articles are the author's own work. And I was so, but I was like, you know what? guess I could see from an ethical standpoint, you know, you want to model that. But yeah, I did. And I did make some references in my dissertation, you know, there's some. found that. Because for my dissertation I did an actual study of that Marci Grossman (16:20) ⁓ so Albert's book is called Rise Above the Script and it's about self-sabotage for performing artists, also for entrepreneurs, students, parents, because we all do self-sabotage. We all get in our own way and, you know, that's part of the reason that he's here on my show because your self-sabotage is impacting your ability for education, for opportunities, for work-related, for money-related. Albert (16:33) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Marci Grossman (16:48) So it's important to recognize how you're getting in your own way and how to get out of your way. But your description used the terms friction between their ambition and their achievement and I love that. I mean, that's just so, I don't even know the word to use it, but I just love the way that flows and I can see what that means, how your ambition is and your achievement and they're not the same and. ⁓ There's that internal fight between them. Albert (17:15) Oh, yeah, and I put a whole chapter in the book about money and It's about your relationship with money because You know almost everybody that's well, would assume everyone listening here everyone who has these conversations wants to make money on a conscious level. You know, that's why we get up and do what we do. or at least part of reason. But it then comes down to what is your relationship with money all about? Because if you're looking at money as sometimes evil, because that's the message we got morally growing up, was, you know, the misconstrued message, misquoted message of money through it all evil. And that was never really a quote. A real quote, was more of the love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself. And so a lot of times you may have heard these messages in religious teachings and from parents, from society, that money is the root of all evil. So we're not evil. Therefore, let's not have money. Or money has become almost a reactive substance. And that's why you see sometimes people who go, especially actors or Athletes or people who win the lottery they get into some major windfall where they get a lot of money so quickly but then a Year or two later three years later They're in more debt than they were before they started because they don't know how to handle it. it's like the subconsciously They need to get rid of it, you know, because again, it's like a radioactive substance so We need to improve our relationship with money Marci Grossman (18:46) That's what I'm here for, to help people improve their relationship with money. while we're continuing with that and the imposter syndrome and the self-sabotage, then we go also to fear of failure, I think fits in probably right in there. You're afraid to succeed and you're afraid to fail. Albert (19:03) Yeah, well, because we like to stay comfortable and both succeeding and failure is uncomfortable. Now, some people may be thinking, why would succeeding be uncomfortable? Well, for a couple of reasons. Number one, change. More pressure. Yeah, know, even identity, you may have to change your identity. You're now a whatever it is you were. Now you have to change to something else. And that's scary. Really fundamentally scary to change our identity There's also relationships too. You know you may lose relationships. Because some people Who are around you may find that your success may be a threat to them. And sometimes you may even hear from family members who would say, well, look at him or look at her. Do you think she's better than us? or you think he's better than us? or you're too good for us now? And then we start to hear messages like that, which is then kind of like puts a guilt trip on us. And therefore, we're gonna subconsciously make a vow that, well, therefore, I'm not that way. I'll make sure I stay mediocre and average. And that's what we subconsciously tell ourselves. And that leads us to self-tabletage. Marci Grossman (20:07) It's so hard when we get in each other's way and the fact of the matter is we are all just trying to get by. Whether you have money or you don't have money or you have money temporarily or you're in a challenging situation temporarily. We are all just trying to get by and yeah, no, it's hard. That brings me to failing forwards. Albert (20:13) Yeah. 100 % yes. Marci Grossman (20:31) Because what can you take out of your failures? What are the lessons? Albert (20:31) Mm-hmm. What feedback can you get? Exactly. So failure is feedback. And a lot of people think that, ⁓ I made a mistake, I failed. No, you're actually one step closer to your goal now. Because now you know what doesn't work. Marci Grossman (20:48) Right. Albert (20:49) So now you know what you can do differently. And I use the analogy, with babies. if you've been around toddlers and babies, when they learn to walk, now they will fall down, even dozens to hundreds of times. What do they do? They get back up and try again. And eventually they walk. I've never seen someone say, walking things out for me. I quit. You never see parents that will point to the child and say, you're not equipped to walk. But we do this with everything else in our life. We make one or two mistakes and that's it. I'm done. I quit. But maybe we should all adapt the mindset of those infants. Marci Grossman (21:26) It's funny how sometimes it seems so much easier to be supportive of someone else than to be supportive of yourself. Albert (21:33) Of course. And I can tell this even from coaches, therapists, and anybody else. We're great at giving advice to other people. Excellent advice. And I even found myself sometimes listening to the advice of other people. I'm like, yeah, I should be taking that myself. Why am I not doing that? That sounds great. Because I can easily coach somebody who's going through what I'm going through sometimes. And it's like, well, OK, then why am I not practicing what I preach right now. Marci Grossman (21:58) Well, that's where the coaching comes in and having that support person, whether it's a professional or a friend, that when you're going to make a change in your life, you need a cheerleader, Albert (22:08) an accountability partner. You need someone who's going to hold you accountable and, you know, kind of, keep you in check. and the one thing about, myth about hiring a coach is it's any level, even high, even if you look at the most peak performers and elite CEOs, they may not publicly admit it, but they have coaches behind the scenes that are always guiding them, and mentoring them. I know some really successful influencers, content creators, coaches that have like three or four coaches of their own that are, again, helping them be accountable. The one thing about a imposter syndrome is a lot of people may not even realize that even the high achievers often grapple with imposter syndrome. You know, I can tell you a lot of my acting clients when they're on set with like an A-list actor are very shocked to see how self-conscious these A-list actors can be. I think a lot of times when we take high achievers and put them on a pedestal, like, no, they're human beings just like all of us. Marci Grossman (23:11) I imagine it's got to be hard for actors because you can be on a hit TV series of whatever kind or in a couple of movies and have major roles and then you've got a while before you're really seen again and you have to wonder was that a fluke and how do you keep getting back up and you need people in your corner for that and that's just a very public viewing that we can all see. You don't see it necessarily Albert (23:25) Yeah. Marci Grossman (23:39) with someone who works at a business and gets laid off and all of that. I see that a lot where people are commenting on LinkedIn, hey, I got laid off and then all my friends from work don't seem to exist anymore. Albert (23:41) Yeah. Bob. Yeah, well that's true too because one of the truths, and I've had this too, where it's like when I left companies and I was younger everyone's like, we're going to keep in touch. That doesn't happen. once you kind of leave a company, it's like, if they're still there, it's just the way it is. So even with actors too, like, let's say you work together for three months on the play or, you know, even six months on a film or a couple of years on a TV show. During that time you become very close. become very like, you you see each other sometimes on a daily basis. Sometimes even more than you might even see your family or your significant others. So there's a real bond there, but unfortunately when the show is over, the production ends. Sometimes you may lose contact what makes this work in entertainment or creatives differently than others is again because you get laid off you can get really hired right back on again especially if you really good track record. With actors every time you leave a project you're not going to start all over again to prove yourself on audition and audition and audition. Whereas you know in a corporate world if you leave one position there's a greater chance you may still have to interview but there's a greater chance that You don't really have to prove yourself because you already have that resume and that track record. Marci Grossman (25:06) True, true, and I think this brings us to communication and authentic communication and the authenticity paradox. Albert (25:14) Yes. Well, as actors, the one thing that I think a lot of people don't realize is how vulnerable the acting process is. Because you have to sometimes adapt yourself to heavy roles. And intense roles. a lot of times, when you spend a lot of time embodying characters who may be dark, may have a lot, torture type of character. It starts to seep into your daily life. And I've had a lot of actors tell me when they would like end the play that they needed, sometimes it took them a month or two to kind of recover mentally and emotionally from that. Because you start adapting, you start almost, you know, becoming not necessarily full on that character, but you start becoming that, at least the thought process because you embody a character so long. I've actually heard of, know, sometimes actors need to go to a therapist afterwards to decompress after playing, an intense role because they're traumatized, you know, they're experiencing trauma. So it's not just playing, it's more than playing pretend. You know, we saw this back in 2008. This is one of reasons why they believe that Heath Ledger kind of went off the rails. Because, you he just got off of playing the Dark Knight, and did an amazing job, aesthetically, creatively, but it tortured him. I mean, I also think a lot of people were saying he had a lot of demons before, even before he took that. role. But it was just... going to some dark places where you have to go when you play a role like that. Marci Grossman (26:45) Yeah, I mean, he won the Oscar for that performance of Joker, I think, right? Albert (26:51) Yeah, yeah, mean, he, everybody was raving about it. You know he did a great job, but it cost. Yeah, exactly. It was not worth it. And unfortunately, I think the actual final trigger that kind of, you know, ended his life was that role. So. Marci Grossman (26:57) but it wasn't worth his life. Albert (27:09) You know, I think that's a lot of things about reality of actors. I've heard some actors sometimes stop acting because of a role that traumatizes them. Marci Grossman (27:17) I can understand that. mean, some of those roles, well, first off, there's a whole lot of movies I can't see, because I'm just not interested in that level of intensity. For me, I go to be entertained. And if it's going to be that heavy and dark, I'm just not interested. But to have to go and personify that and be that for an extended period of time, that's got to be traumatizing. But I think we kind of Albert (27:25) Yeah. Right. Yeah Marci Grossman (27:42) diverged from authentic communication, which is more about having people feel you're real and that you are authentic as opposed to just playing a role and pretending. Albert (27:53) Yeah, well, and that's the whole thing too. I think when it comes to authenticity, a lot of people sometimes forget with actors that they're real people as well. And that what they the characters that they play are different from who they are. And this is why, like, a lot of actors that I know are very introverted. Some people find that a little bit shocking, but even actors, musicians, a lot of them are are introverts, heavily introverts. You know, because, yeah, they may show larger than life personalities, but they're doing it because they're performing, not because of the audience. I've had some a lot of actors who were on stage actors, even musicians tell me sometimes they get so wrapped up like in that flow state that they don't even pay attention to the audience. They don't even know the audience is there. because they're so wrapped up in doing what they're doing. But I think going back to the authenticity is, again, who are they? Who are you? And if you look at even another tragedy, it's Robin Williams. I heard a lot of people say that Robin Williams was, didn't, you know, I mean, yeah, he liked the fame, but he also felt like people were wanting to be around him because he was Robin Williams, the actor, not because of Robin Williams' human being. And that happens to lot of actors because when they go on public, people surround them, they fawn they throw themselves at them. And it's not because they want to be with them personally, it's because of, hey, I'm around the celebrity, so I'm going to fulfill my own narcissistic need by taking a picture with the celebrity. Maybe they just want to go out to dinner with their family for the night. Maybe they just want to go out to the store and be left alone. Marci Grossman (29:31) Right. Right. And again, even when they are not acting, they are still acting because they are, look, I am this actor out in public, I have to, whether it's at award shows or red carpets or whatever else, they are going out, not as an individual, they are going out as the character of being an actor. Albert (29:57) Mm-hmm. Marci Grossman (29:57) that dividing line between when they get to be their authentic self versus the public face of the actor versus when they're playing a role. That's a lot to juggle, the mental health issues there. I can see why that would be a lot. Albert (30:12) Totally. absolutely. think that's the biggest thing, With mental health and actors. that's why, you know, going with authenticity, it's why a lot of actors struggle a lot of times with, imposter syndrome, or even with substance use, there's a good number of actors that are in recovery, or struggling with alcohol and substance use. Because again a lot of times it's that there's a lot of pain there and they don't really have the outlet to express that pain and to draw that pain out and so that's why they go into that. But the important thing I think really remembering is that these actors are people, they're human beings, they have the same emotions that we do, the same struggles that we do. I think for somehow we put them on a pedestal and they're normal people. They're just playing they're playing a role on TV or a film or on stage. It's all they're doing Marci Grossman (31:07) I guess that puts you in a unique place as an agent who's also a psychologist Albert (31:11) Yeah, I mean, I have to respect boundaries. one thing like, I'm not gonna in the middle of a conversation say to somebody, oh, you need to go see someone, unless I have a rapport enough. And then I can say, well, maybe you ever think that this is happening or that is happening. and then I can suggest that. But if it's somebody who I'm just looking to get jobs for, I'm not gonna point that out. at this point, because it's like, part of it is ethical, we've got to respect boundaries and that's. Marci Grossman (31:39) That's true too. Yeah, I can see that, which is too bad because you have this superpower of this knowledge and education, but you do want to respect. Right. Albert (31:41) Mm-hmm. Well, I'm here if people need me, you know, that's why I like, you know, I've been guesting on podcasts because I'm here, that's why I tell people to come here, and, the right ones will come, you know, if they truly are ready, because part of like, well, coaching and with therapy, you have to be ready and receptive and coachable and, and in a space where you're able to make changes. A lot of people aren't, aren't there yet. And, one thing that doesn't really work is when you force somebody into something, especially like, ⁓ maybe someone's thrown into therapy because of their parents or their spouse wants them to go or their partner or their or even sometimes court order, they have to go to counseling and they don't want to be there. And it's kind of a waste of time. Because the one thing about is we can had the best systems for change and best change work processes, but we cannot change free will. Marci Grossman (32:39) Right, someone has to want to change. Albert (32:41) Right. because a lot of people think, when I hear that I'm trying to hypnosis and then they'll think that I'm going to manipulate them or that I'm going to make them do things that they're not going to do. And the one thing I'm saying, like I don't matter how gifted a person may be in this area. If you're don't want to do it, it's not going to work. if you're morally opposed to something, we can't make you do anything you wouldn't normally do. Marci Grossman (33:02) So don't have to worry about a hypnotist in a show making me bark like a dog. Albert (33:06) Not unless you volunteer to go up there. Because that's the whole thing when you see a hypnosis show, you also have to understand that people are volunteering to go up there. Which means that they're already open to that idea. And they know what's about to happen. They know when the hypnotist snaps their finger, that they're going to do a certain thing. So really technically, you can also make the argument that the person, you know, the hypnotist is really not doing the hypnotizing, we are doing it to ourselves. Marci Grossman (33:36) That's an interesting way to think about it. We're allowing them to help us get to where we want to go. Albert (33:39) So, but. Exactly. one thing I've heard explained, well, I'm like, look, what you're seeing people do, you're seeing people perform on stage. And you notice that there's no stage fright with these people at this point. So imagine if we can make someone forget that they have stage fright. I wonder what we can do. in the future. I wonder what we can do down the line. If we can make someone forget that they're performing, maybe we can forget that they have anxiety or that they have this fear. So a lot of things we can do with that. Marci Grossman (34:12) That's a lot to think about people if you are interested in changing, you have to really make that choice to change and then the opportunities are out there. Albert (34:21) There's so many opportunities when you make that choice, that declaration. Marci Grossman (34:24) Albert, before we wrap up, have you got anything you'd like to share that maybe we just didn't cover? Albert (34:29) Well, I'm just going to say this, that all the answers or all the solutions that you need are really within you. It just takes sometimes a little bit of coaching to help you tap into those resources. So we can help you become your own coach, become your own real agent of change, because you have the resources within you, all of us do, to be successful. We just sometimes just need the little bit of restructuring on how to get there. Marci Grossman (34:58) Thank you Albert. Thank you so much for joining us ⁓ it was my pleasure. To my listeners, I will be sharing a link to Albert's information in the show notes. Please check him out. He shares a lot of interesting information. And don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review and stay tuned. I'll see you next time. This has been MoneyMarci on Marci Talks Money (and Life). You got this. See ya. Albert (35:01) for having me.