Latest / Wrongful Conviction Podcasts / 511: #511 Jason Flom with Louis Costilla, Jr.
Transcript
- 00:00:02 Speaker 1: On the morning of August fourth, nineteen ninety two, the body of thirty one year old Vernon Huggins was discovered in a park on the north side of Toledo, Ohio. Oddly, from when the case opened until that December, there appeared to be no investigative record until an alleged anonymous tip led to witnesses who claimed to have seen a wooden club wielding white supremacist gang bragging about the crime. Then one young man signed a statement making him part of the Loathsome group, before immediately denying the statement he just signed, but it was already too late for him and four others, including twenty year old Lewis Costilla. This is Wrongful Conviction. You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction, where we're heading to Toledo, Ohio to cover the investigation and prosecution of five young men Ismael and Lorenzo Vasquez, Joseph Ercard, Eric Mish, and our guest today, Lewis Castilla and if names like Castilla and Vascaz don't exactly sound like they fit into a white supremacist group to you, Well, you might not be the only one. So lewis welcome and joining him is his post conviction attorney, a partner with the Ohio defense firm Don Malarchick. Thanks for joining us. Sure now, Lou, I want you to take us back to your beginnings in Toledo, Ohio. 00:01:55 Speaker 2: Yeah. I was born and raised in the north side of Toledo. That guy the three brothers, and I wouldn't say baby sister, but she ain't a baby no more so. When I was thirteen years old, man I lied on application to get a child. I was at dishwasher, spaghetti where else. So I worked because that's how my dad raised me. It might not have been around a lot, but I know he loved me. But that man got up every day at work. Just family life was. I mean, I love my parents, okay, love them both to death, but I had to grow up quick. I mean my dad's problems, my maya or problems, and as a kid, I didn't realize adult problems. I was dealing with them, just didn't realize them. So I just I ran the streets. I mean, I wasn't out there running the streets like they said. 00:02:39 Speaker 3: I was. 00:02:39 Speaker 2: Okay, But I mean I just I was irresponsible as a kid. Okay. I snuck around, snuck out at night, we'd go sit forty ounces with the friends. But I was happy. I wasn't out there beating nobody up and doing the things that they did. But like the whole trying to say I was part of a white supremacist group, trust me, if the Toledo police had to describe me, the last thing they would describe me as was a white supremacist. Just that's not who I was. All I know is the cops in Toledo didn't like me. Okay, they would stop us all the time because of my last name. Now, like I said, I wasn't no Angel. I did dumb shit, but that's what we all do. I got jumped one time when I was a kid. The detectant came told me I had to drop chargers and he was gonna charge me. Like I mean, Toledo is just I don't even know how to explain it. That's just the way them cobs were. 00:03:27 Speaker 1: Sounds like they had a very loose relationship with the truth. Which might help explain what happened in the investigation of the murder of thirty one year old Vernon Huggins, who reportedly had a very volatile relationship with his girlfriend, Emma, and then his body was discovered around seven thirty am on August fourth, nineteen eighty two in Woodrow Wilson Park on the north side of Toledo. 00:03:50 Speaker 4: Vernon is discovered and this bloody bottle was picked up near Vernon. But this piece of evidence went untested. It stayed in the evidence fault and people are being interviewed right away. Vernon's mom says, this must have been Emma's family. I mean, she knows how volatile. 00:04:11 Speaker 3: Their history is. 00:04:12 Speaker 4: She knows that this was a really dangerous and violent relationship. Vernon's uncles, Nathaniel, saw him, and Nathaniel says he was with vern after two am, about three am. Gave him sixty bucks, followed him and vern is approached by four black males and Nathaniel says they're threatening him, confronting him, and they're driving this gray station wagon with tinted windows. 00:04:39 Speaker 2: And he was on the whole other side of town. This happened on the east side. They found him in the North End Well. 00:04:44 Speaker 1: The murder was initially investigated by Detective Berks, and at least one in the group of four was said to have been carrying the leg of a wooden chair. Then Vernon Huggins somehow went from the east side of Toledo across the Maumie River to the North End before or after he was beaten to death after three am, and his body was found in Woodrow Wilson Park. Now, strangely, the police only collected one shoe print, which could indicate that the park was not the site of the group assault. Either way, there appears to have been promising leads. 00:05:17 Speaker 4: So the real legitimate leads that pointed to Emma's family were there that information was available, Unfortunately, nobody followed up on that. What happens, unfortunately, is the initial detective who's on the case, Detective Berks, is reassigned and all of this information that pointed to other individuals is really buried and not eventually provided to the defense attorneys. 00:05:43 Speaker 1: The case was reassigned to detectives Robert Lighter and James Anderson in December nineteen ninety two, who, instead of following Burke's investigation to his logical end came upon an alternate theory. 00:05:55 Speaker 4: This idea that this white supremacist group attacked Vernon seemed to take foothold in the minds of these detectives. They were desperate to solve this homicide. They ignored other evidence, they ignored other leads, and most importantly, they ignored the lack of any physical evidence at all. 00:06:11 Speaker 1: It's unclear what or who was the source of this unsupported new theory. According to them, it was a January nineteen ninety three anonymous tip. But interestingly, around that time, a man named John Urbina was also arrested on an unrelated charge. And lucky for these two gum shoes, they had in their custody the bona fide founder of this alleged wooden club wielding white supremacist gang. 00:06:38 Speaker 2: Look, there's no such thing. There's no such thing, none whatsoever. Period. Let me tell you who Johnny Orbina is. I didn't like John or Pina. I whooped his ass twice. Johnny Robina is a sex offender. Okay, he touched on a little girl in the neighborhood. I was gonna whoop him in the county when they put him in the holding tank. With me because of who he touched. Okay, they threw them charges out because he told his fucking story. And now he's doing al wop in Texas for doing the same goddamn thing he did here. 00:07:06 Speaker 1: So either Urbina was offering false information about the Vernon Huggins murder to escape being a convicted job molester, thereby becoming the origin of this unsupported white gang theory, or it happened just like these two detectives reported it officially that a crime Stoppers tip came in leading to an apartment on the North Side rented by a woman named Lisa Earle and her roommate Michelle Parkhurst, who claimed to have been at John Urbina's house in July of ninety two when the gang arrived sometime between midnight and one am, bragging about beating up a black man. 00:07:40 Speaker 4: But the problem with all that is she's got the wrong day. The detectives are feeding her information, they're telling her when it supposedly happens. She's correcting herself. Oh yeah, it must have been in August, not in July. It doesn't make any sense. And I think they were desperate to pin this on somebody. 00:07:58 Speaker 1: Now, according to park Curse twenty sixteen, Alfid David. Those somebodies were seventeen year old Joey Hall and twenty year old Lou Castilla, the latter of whom Parkhurst was acquainted with through her roommate Lisa Earle. 00:08:13 Speaker 2: Look, the only reason I went to Lisa Earl's house is because I was doing her, simple as that. Okay. Michelle Parker's mom is the one that called crime starver and she ain't none but a fucking crackhead. Okay, Michelle Parker's done guy. All of her kids too. 00:08:26 Speaker 1: Parkhurst twenty sixteen, Alfid David continued that she was noticeably pregnant at the time and had already lost custody of her first son, and then these detectives threatened her with murder charges if she didn't cooperate, at which point she said the wrong month as well as the wrong time, between midnight and one am, when Vernon was last seen alive around three am, and it appears that the police suggested that perhaps the group arrived in a gray Chevy Nova. 00:08:56 Speaker 2: Evidently Michelle knew I drove that great Nova. It used to be my mom's car. It was always parked right down the street. From her, and I bought the car. Okay, but the car was a piece of shit and it set in my mother in law's backyard. It wasn't even fucking running in July, let alone August. But why would they say we're looking for a great nova? Why not a blue nova? Unless you read some shit that suggested something great. 00:09:19 Speaker 1: Like the gray station wagon from the initial investigation. So that's three falsehoods for Parkhurst. And that theme continued when they visited Joey Hall, who also chose to be a witness rather than a co defendant, giving many inconsistent statements that ultimately allowed him a vantage point for the fatal beating. And this is where Ismael and Lorenzo v Aska has first come out. 00:09:42 Speaker 2: Listen, Joey Hall just got out a juvie. His ass got locked right back up after this dude got killed. So the only thing I could think of, man, is he did that shit to get his ass out of trouble. 00:09:52 Speaker 1: And Derbino was no different now. Not only did he claim to have founded this wooden club wielding white supremacist group, also said the wrong month and time, a July night between midnight and two am. Despite these numerous inconsistencies and falsehoods in their statements. Arrest warrants were signed for Lou Joe Rickard who went by CJ, and then the Vasquez brothers, and all of them were charged with murder. 00:10:17 Speaker 2: When they came and got me, I was working and they slammed me up against the wall. At the time, I was on back child support, so I thought that's what it was. And then when they told me murder, I'm like, yeah, y'all got to be fucking tripping. I ain't killed nobody. I thought it was a fucking joke. So but yeah, I think me and CJ was the first two to be arrested. 00:10:35 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Urbina, allegedly on his own, also named a sixteen year old kid named Eric Mish who was brought down to the precinct where he was adamant that he knew nothing about the crime. 00:10:48 Speaker 4: The detectives then take him out of the police department, drive him over the crime scene. They're showing him where this stuff happened, and the detectives start really feeding him this fake story of and Joe and everybody else's involvement. And they are lying to Eric who's sixteen and saying we know you were there. We've got proof that you were there, we got witnesses that you were there. You know, you don't want to go down alone on this. You don't want to be in prison. So you're fifty years old. 00:11:15 Speaker 2: Until he was fifty, they said the same shit to me. 00:11:17 Speaker 4: Too, And they are literally coercing a sixteen year old kid into saying a statement that's complete bullshit. What's also important, I think is the detectives were with him for hours and hours, feeding him there what they call pre thoughts about their theory of the case. 00:11:34 Speaker 1: So they made a twenty one minute long recording running through the narrative as if Eric was there as a witness to the fatal beating. 00:11:43 Speaker 4: You can hear him trying to make this shit up as he's going along, and they're having him correct his story as he's making it up, and he's saying, in his mind, if I can tell these guys what I know they want to hear, maybe I can go home today. 00:11:56 Speaker 1: So he does go home with the expectation that he'd testify, but he recanted the following day, so he was arrested, and meanwhile they offered lou a plea deal. 00:12:06 Speaker 2: It was an involuntary man slaughter in the commission of a flonious assault, which we call for ten to twenty five and I'm not going to lie. I thought about it like man, because I didn't know what the hell was going on. But then the next day I called my attorney, I said, man, I can't do this. I didn't do nothing, but they told us, if you don't take this deal, we're going to read indict you on AG murder AG robbery. I'm like, how in the hell are you gonna do that? Where they used Air's confession, and that afternoon the sheriff came up and say, here's your reindictment papers, AG murder, AG robbery. 00:12:35 Speaker 1: Joe Rickard, Ismael and Venzo Vasquez and Eric Misch also received aggravated murder and aggravated robbery chargers. And somewhere along the way, a woman named Rosemary Nell came forward with a wooden club that was allegedly left at her home by CJ aka Joe Rickard, which was entered into evidence not as a murder weapon, but as an example of what might have been used and with what Lou and CJ knew about johnre being as tendencies toward children. They were paired off for a trial without John or being a testifying in June of ninety three. 00:13:08 Speaker 4: Park Hurst was really the person who put all this together for the prosecution. She talks about seeing Joe and Lou and others bragging about supposedly jumping some black guy. But again she's got the wrong dates. She's thinking that this happened in July. The detectives are correcting her and feeding her that this happens in August. 00:13:32 Speaker 3: They get Hall and it's more of the same. 00:13:34 Speaker 2: Joey Hall, he couldn't point to what the murder happened at my trial. Prosecution had to fucking showing And her and Joey couldn't even agree on whether I drove or we walked, because she said we walked, Joey said we drove. 00:13:46 Speaker 4: These are folks who weren't sober when all these events occurred. They're talking about it months later. And the glaring thing is what was absent from the trial any physical evidence at all. I mean, this was a vicious attack by supposedly five guys who all took turns whaling on mister Vernon, and there's just no physical evidence at all, nothing at all. 00:14:08 Speaker 1: Plus, I'm not saying that shoeprint evidence is positive of anything, but how the hell would they only collect one shoe print from a group assault in an outdoor setting like a park. 00:14:20 Speaker 2: I had nothing else to do in prison but to look at shit. Okay, so I looked at the weather. It was raining that night, a light rain, and one fucking shoe print, But you got five of us. What did I do? Hold them all on my fucking shoulders. 00:14:33 Speaker 1: In addition, the state presented medical experts, one of whom testified that the injuries were more consistent with a baseball bat leaning away from the thin wooden club that was turned in by Rosemary Nell, which could have been corroborated by Nathaniel Huggins. But all of Burke's evidence pointing toward a group of men with a wooden chair leg on the east side of Toledo around three am had been hidden from the defense, making a path for the false narrative about a white supremisist gang attacking with these thin wooden clubs around midnight on the north end. 00:15:06 Speaker 4: I think the jury got caught up in the brutality of the crime, this idea that this was a white supremacist Act and without the evidence that shows that they were lying. The defense attorneys were kind of fighting with two hands tied behind their back. 00:15:20 Speaker 2: I was young and dumb man. I was still believing in the system. I didn't kill nobody. As far as my defense goes, there wasn't nothing really presented. When the state was done, my attorney was like, they didn't prove nothing, and again I knew what they were saying was lives. I even asked the deputy sheriff that was walking me back and forth, Hey, you think they don't find me guilty? He said, if they believe that girl, they don't find you guilty. If they don't, you'll walk out of here. And I was trying to convict it in less than twenty four hours. I mean, this shit was a joke. 00:15:56 Speaker 1: This episode of Wrongful Conviction is proudly sponsored by Erase pt Now. Every day, countless individuals face the invisible wounds of trauma and PTSD. Your support empowers us to provide life changing treatments like the Stelli Ganglion Block SGB, which inhibits nerve impulses and helps to restore hope, reclaim lives, and save lives after incarceration. Together, we can ensure that those wrongfully convicted receive the care they need to heal and reintegrate into society. Join us in this mission to erase PTSD and uplift our communities. Visit erase PTSD now dot org. That's erase PTSD now dot org for more information and ways to get involved. 00:16:45 Speaker 2: Me CJ Doctor in June of ninety three. My sentence was fifteen in life. Even when I first went to prison, I still had a little bit of belief, like, Okay, I got these appeals, somebody gonna see something somewhere, and I set my appeals attorney a letter, I'm innocent. I didn't kill nobody, and she sent me letter back. Somebody ain't gonna do whether you're innocent of Gilts. It's whether he was given a fair trial. So I accepted that. 00:17:10 Speaker 4: So Joe and Lou they're convicted. Eric is bound over. He's tried as an adult, and they introduced this false confession, and Eric's convicted. The Vasquez brothers are seeing how all this unfolds, and they talk to their lawyer and they work out a deal and they offer an Alfred plea, And Alfred plea is a denial that you did anything wrong. It doesn't admit that you committed a crime, but it said, look, I'm not risking it. I've seen two juris convict innocent men, and I don't have any faith in the system at all. I'll take my chances with the parole board and take a lesser sentence. And the Vasquez brothers pled guilty and avoided the two trials that lou Joe and. 00:17:57 Speaker 3: Mitch got convicted of. 00:17:58 Speaker 1: So Eric got twenty the life, while Ismail and Lorenzo got fifteen to life. 00:18:04 Speaker 2: When Melon Lorenzo came through, they got shipped somewhere else. But from ninety three to ninety eight, yeah, Me, CJ and Misch was all in the same person. And ninety five my last appeals was exhausted. So I did what I had to do to survivor life. Since I'm under the old law, so I knew I was going to board and tenure. But I wasn't stupid enough to think they was gonna let me go home. I knew they was gonna give me time, so I just I did what I had to do to survive. O three was my first time going to board. They gave me five years, went back. You know, eight, they gave me three more, they gave me five three three three three. Yeah, they gave me eighteen years and flops. 00:18:43 Speaker 1: And during that time it appears that Eric Mish was the most active in post conviction litigation, garnering the support of the Wrongful Conviction Project of the Ohio Public Defender's Office, led by a friend of our show, Joanna Sanchez. 00:18:57 Speaker 4: Joanna Sanchez is an incredible, amazing, tenacious, badass lawyer. The problem is you're making multiple public records requests and you're starting to kind of pull it the thread and you're getting new and different information kind of piecemeal. It's not all delivered at once. It's coming through, there's more and more information. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, early records requests only turned up the initial criminal complaint in August of ninety two, along with the investigation files starting in that December. Burke's investigated files didn't begin to turn up until twenty eighteen. Meanwhile, Michelle Parkhurst had recanted in twenty sixteen, saying that when she had been interviewed way back in January of ninety three, the police had threatened her with murder charges if she didn't name their suspects. Joey Hall, John Orbina, and lu Castilla, never mentioning Eric Mish. They also mentioned her pregnancy, seemingly implying that she would lose custody of her soon to be born and Sun and for her cooperation, she was given immunity among other temporary benefits. 00:20:05 Speaker 2: The prosecutors then gave her hotels, put her in apartments, and once the trialsers over, would they kicked her ass out. 00:20:13 Speaker 1: Then, in twenty eighteen, Joanna Sanchez filed a new records request asking specifically for the investigation records from August through December nineteen ninety two, which turned up one hundred and fourteen pages of Burke's investigation records, including a number of alternate suspects, as well as the bloody bottle collected at the scene. 00:20:35 Speaker 4: That's a bombshell, And there's a statute in the state of Ohio that you can go to the court for post conviction relief and request DNA. The state is fighting this, the state doesn't want it. The States upholding this wrongful conviction. 00:20:49 Speaker 1: And while Joanna fought for the DNA testing and filed a motion for a new trial, all five innocent men finally parolled out. Lorenzo was in May twenty fifteen. Cj, Eric, and Lou were all released within days of one another in April of twenty twenty. While Ismael came home that June. 00:21:09 Speaker 2: Oh, I mean when I actually got the letter shit, I cried like a little baby right there to Milly York, my wife. Now she was there to pick me up, cook the roast, roast, potatoes, carrots. My first day home. When we was coming home, I saw Walmart and I told her, I said, look, just take me in there and get it over with now. I just I made sure I was gonna put myself in every position that was going to make me uncomfortable, so I wouldn't get stuck in a house in a room like I was still in prison. I couldn't sleep for two weeks because of the new noises. I wasn't used to cars driving by. I mean, this woman put up with a whole lot of shit in the last four years with me dealing with my demons. I still deal with them. They're just not as bad as they used to be. 00:21:48 Speaker 1: It never ceases to amaze me how love can still find a way even when partners are on opposite sides of the prison walls. 00:21:57 Speaker 2: I met her like back in ninety eight, and that we stayed in contact. I didn't think the pro boy was gonna let me get pro to her because she's the reason I first got in trouble because she used to be a seal in ninety eight. So that was my first whole shot. But thankfully I got the right parle officer and he was like, no, I want him to come here, and that was probably about the best thing that could happen to me. 00:22:19 Speaker 1: Well, we haven't talked about this yet, but lou has four children now. One initial connection to this whole situation for him was through a woman he had been sleeping with, and then his first time getting sent to the whole was over an affair he had had with a correction officer who ended up marrying him over two decades later. Now I'm just saying, the lady seemed to really like this guy. 00:22:44 Speaker 2: Listen, if I'm being honest with you. Okay, I met my wife in ninety eight, but I met somebody in ninety five that stood by me the whole time I was in prison. She passed away a year before I came home. Her name was Faviola. She's the reason that. She's the reason I made it. I loved my wife, but she was there day for day twenty five straight years, and I screwed up and we split up in twenty sixteen, and that's when my wife came back and we started talking to you. A lot of people helped me get to where I'm at, and I respect each and every one of them. Some of them are here, some of them. But if it wasn't for her, yeah, I wouldn't checked out A long time ago. It wasn't easy coming home. I couldn't find a job for four months. I'm at the same job I started back in twenty twenty. I went from picking people's orders to now I'm working on the bay systems and robotics. Because I was determined not to go back to that damn place. They offered me to teach me things, so I learned them and now I make pretty good money. I'm in tell with all my kids. I don't have the best relationship with all of them, but I'm doing what I can. You know, I made a promise to myself before I came home, and no matter what I was gonna try, you know, I got a son now that lives down here with me, and he was going through what he was going through, and I asked him, now you want to leave you little He said, yeah, I went and got it. He been here with me ever since. I'll do anything for my kids. 00:24:23 Speaker 1: So, while Lou and the other guys struggled with reacclimating Ismael got a parole violation just three months after his release, sending him back to prison, all of which made the post conviction litigation even more pressing. Luckily, the court sided with Eric and Johanna Sanchez, ordering DNA testing, and when the materials that were sent for testing to the Bureau of Criminal Investigation or BCI, came back, it turned out that two sealed bags containing even more investigative files from Burkes had also made the round trip journey, which included background that Burkes had worked up about Vernon Huggins and his girlfriend, Emma. 00:24:58 Speaker 4: Vernon was pretty out on his luck. He would hustle for money, he had some issues with substance abuse, he had some issues with alcohol. He and Emma had a pretty volatile, sometimes violent relationship. And what's really important is within days of Vernon's death, he and Emma have a big, huge falling out there's a big fight. Vernon pulls Emma into a car, he speeds off. The car crashes, people are scattering, they're all running away. Emma goes home, she's with her mom, and then Vernon, on three consecutive nights, the Friday, Saturday, and Sunday before his homicide, he basically breaks into where Emma is and he's pissed off, he's angry, he's not sober. Vernon is threatening her, He's threatening Emma's mom. And Emma has a couple of brothers and some family members who don't take too kindly. And we know now through witness account and through public records requests that Emma's brothers confronted Vernon. One of the brothers had what looked like a club that would have fit the description of the kind of weapon that was used on Vernon on the day of his death, and they threatened Vernon. And that is the absolute clear motive for Vernon's homicide. 00:26:20 Speaker 1: And then there's the interview with Nathaniel Huggins about the lead up to Vernon's death, in which we know he was seen after three am on the east side of Toledo. Nathaniel gave him money, followed him and saw this confrontation with four men, one of whom had a wooden chair leg, and they all had emerged from a gray station wagon with tinted windows. 00:26:41 Speaker 2: Them cops knew that shit. Thep cops read that fucking report. The prosecutors read their fucking report, because how else are they going to go from a gray station wagon, low writer to my gray nova that was broke the fuck down in my mother in law's back yard. How was that that prosecutor going to go when they said we beat this man with a stick, and their witness said, that's impossible. There would have been slivers in the skull. What's he go to? Oh maybe it was a Louisville slugger. How the fuck do you go to Louisville slugger? Because it's more like a goddamn cheer lake. Right, you can't tell me. None of them guys didn't see it. They all saw that shit, just like these cops that don't remember. Now, I wouldn't remember either of us sent five fucking kids to motherfucker prison. 00:27:22 Speaker 1: So not only was there evidence of a more compelling alternate suspect, narrative and motive, but then also the victim's uncle undermined both the timeframe of the murder as established by the state's witnesses, as well as disproved Eric Misch's alleged confession. But wait, don't forget that this all came alongside DNA test results from the bloody bottle. 00:27:45 Speaker 4: And again, this is against the backdrop of zero physical evidence connecting lou Joe, the Vasquez Brothers or Eric Minch to this homicide. There's nothing, and the DNA comes back of a local guy who's got a felony record. And then Joanna is also able to make a connection that this guy knew Vernon and this is another alternative suspect who had nothing to do with lou Joe, Defasquez Brothers or Eric Minch. So Joanna files this motion for a new trial, and the prosecution stipulated that this evidence was not turned over to the defense team. 00:28:21 Speaker 3: There's no dispute about that. 00:28:23 Speaker 4: But procedurally, the prosecutor's office is fighting us at every step of the way and making this kind of weak ass argument that it wasn't really relevant, it really wouldn't have had an impact on the trial. Joanna has a full blown hearing. She puts on these witnesses. She talks about how a false confection can happen, especially with a minor, and she convinces the court to grant a motion for a new trial, but the prosecution still had the audacity to appeal that decision. And you know, I'm not the smartest lawyer in the world, but I'm smart enough to know to let Joanna go first and do all the hard work. 00:29:00 Speaker 3: Joanna really paved the way. She did all the heavy lifting. 00:29:04 Speaker 4: I talked to Lou, we talked to Joe, and we said, listen, let's see how Eric's case plays out. Eric had a really tough case because he had a confession, so we felt like if Eric can get some relief, there was really no doubt that we were going to get that same relief. 00:29:19 Speaker 1: At this time, the Vasquez brothers were fighting to withdraw their Alfred please while Lou and CJ monitored the new trial motion through the Court of Appeals and the collective process took over two years. 00:29:31 Speaker 4: And the prosecution they reach out to Joanna and say they're going to drop the appeal, and eventually they file motions saying they're not going to contest for the Alfred pleas of the Vasquez brothers being withdrawn. They're not going to fight a new trial, and eventually they say they're not going to oppose a motion to dismiss So the prosecution files this motion to nully the charges, and that motion means the charges are dismissed, and the judge said the words that the conviction is vacated. The judge sign the order there is no conviction. There's not going to be a retrial. And that was an incredible day. It was twenty eight years too late. It doesn't give Lou back his life for Job or Eric or the Vasquez brothers, but it was a partial end to an agonizing, brutalizing, torturous stint that these guys had to endure. 00:30:29 Speaker 2: When I went to my hearing, I was already upset because they wasn't gonna let mel walk out with us because they needed paperwork to let him out, so he had to sit there for about six hours in Olden Seale. But I just assumed that when I got back home that I would give with my parole officer and just like everybody else, my stuff would be terminated. Everything that happened on this case, every courterering, I let the APA know so they knew this was coming. But when I get back in, my PO tells me, well, I need to see you on a tent. 00:30:59 Speaker 4: Lou shows up at his parole officers and is telling her the good news. It's by then been reported on the television, and she says, no, you're still under supervision. Lou calls me and I'm that's got to be a mistake. I don't know what's going on. So I politely call her and say, hey, I don't know if you've heard, but you know there is no conviction. You have no lawful basis to continue to supervise Lou. And she says, well, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see it on the docket. And I said, well, it's on the docket. Let me email you a certified copy of the judge's order. So I hang up and I email the parole officer not only a certified copy of the judge's order, but a copy of the prosecutor's motion to dismiss. And I say to her terminate his supervision immediately. There's no lawful basis to supervise. And she writes back some smart ass letter that says, well, this has been referred to the parole. 00:31:48 Speaker 3: Board, and I just lose my shit. 00:31:51 Speaker 4: And I write a letter, an email to her, I call the parole board and I basically say, Lou was brutalized by the criminal justice system for three decades or crime he didn't commit. And this is the indignity that you have to throw on top of him after the case is dismissed. There's no lawful basis at all to continue to supervise him. And every hour that you deny him is just deny him as humanity. 00:32:15 Speaker 2: Still, as of right now, I'm still on paroth. 00:32:18 Speaker 1: When we recorded this interview, all of that was still true. But we're happy to announce that Lou's supervise release was finally terminated on January twenty ninth, twenty twenty five, a final act and a series of others that took entirely too long to come to pass. 00:32:34 Speaker 4: And this is the bigger problem here. The system is designed to protect itself. The system isn't designed to find out who's innocent, who's guilty. The system is designed to perpetuate a guilty verdict at all costs, despite physical evidence, despite witnesses recanting, despite new evidence of innocence, despite DNA testing, the prosecutors, police officers, and everybody involved in the system. Their goal is to perpetuate this guilty verdict and fuck it if you're innocent. Not to mention the DNA testing identified someone who's still alive. The problem we have is the incentive of the cops and the prosecution to really solve this crime. They are still to this day hiding behind this procedure and saying, well, we're not saying these guys are actually innocent, so there's no real motivation on their part to find the true killer or killers of mister Huggins. Despite the fact that they vacated the decision. They don't have the courage and the integrity and the honesty to say and do the right thing that these five men are actually innocent and they need to find the true killer. They're just not doing it. 00:33:44 Speaker 1: And with that we're going to go to closing arguments. This is my favorite part of the show. This is where I think each of you, from the bottom of my heart and on behalf of our whole team here at Lava for Good. And then I'm going to turn it over to you don for anything else you want to share with me and our wonderful audience, and then you can hand the microphone off to Lou and he'll take us off into the sunset. 00:34:13 Speaker 4: It's hard to hear Lou talk about what he's been through. It's hard to hear Joe talk about what he's been through, because we don't want to think that this happens, right. We don't want to link relive in a society where someone who is innocent is ignored, really laughed at. And that's what happened here. These police officers framed innocent men, and it took decades to get this. 00:34:38 Speaker 3: To come to light. 00:34:39 Speaker 4: I talked to Lou, I talked to Joe, and they had the right attitude. They knew that this was going to work out. I don't know how I would have reacted if I was in their shoes. Give Lou, I give Joe a lot of credit. This is a system that protects itself, and it's a system that covers up the injustices. And when there are claims of innocent we need to pay attention and the people in power need to make. 00:35:03 Speaker 3: The right fucking decisions. Man. 00:35:05 Speaker 4: I mean, the defense attorneys can bring this to the attention of the courts. We can bring it to the attention of the media. But these prosecutors, these police officers, these judges, I can't believe that there's some of them that are out there that don't want. 00:35:18 Speaker 3: To do good. Raise your voice, say something when you see something. This was wrong. 00:35:24 Speaker 4: This could have been stopped decades ago, and this system perpetuated these lies and brutalized these men for no other reason. 00:35:32 Speaker 3: Then people weren't brave enough to speak up. 00:35:36 Speaker 2: This ain't just me. There's many people that are locked up in the system that are innocent. But like I said, the first time I talked to somebody, nobody wanted to ask the right questions. People would just wanted to sweep shit in the rug just for a conviction, for a rating or whatever. Nobody thought about my kids. The choices them two cops made affected a lot of people, a lot of people. And for them to just sit here and say they forgot, they don't remember now, I'm not gonna buy it. If anybody out there who's going through what I'm going through, it's gonna get better. There was times I didn't think it was gonna get better. But I know what is the more I talk about it. That's why I'm grateful for everybody that's let me speak that way. I wasn't imploding on myself. I've been holding so much shit in for damning my whole life. I'm just grateful, man, that I was blessed enough to meet the people that I met from the time of mycarce ration to now, because if it wasn't for them, I probably would have lost my shit a long time ago. 00:36:38 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ron for Conviction. You can listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and ed free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliber. The music in this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay. Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. 00:37:17 Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good